2012 Tuesday: What Romney got right about Obama and dependency, where he went wrong
So it appears that, with the Muslim world burning and reports that some but not all embassies were on alert for possible security threats on the 9/11 anniversary last week, with unemployment still so high and the Obama administration’s policies still so ineffective that the Federal Reserve has resorted to a new round of printing money — with all that, we’re nevertheless doomed to another round of debate about another “gaffe” by Mitt Romney.
That gaffe consists of Romney’s remarks, during a a closed-door fund-raiser four months ago, when he said, in part:
There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that’s an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what …
And I mean the president starts off with 48, 49 … he starts off with a huge number. These are people who pay no income tax. Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax. So our message of low taxes doesn’t connect. So he’ll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. I mean that’s what they sell every four years. And so my job is not to worry about those people. I’ll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. What I have to convince the five to ten percent in the center that are independents that are thoughtful, that look at voting one way or the other depending upon in some cases emotion, whether they like the guy or not.
This is, of course, exactly the kind of sentiment you can hear on, say, Neal Boortz’s radio show: the idea that the nation is reaching a tipping point of “makers” vs. “takers,” of people who pay income taxes vs. people who receive benefits funded by those taxes (and debt).
Is it the kind of thing a presidential candidate should say? No. Is it true that all 47 percent — that statistic is correct, by the way — are “moochers”? No.
But here’s another question: What about Barack Obama’s political career, including his presidency, refutes the broader point Romney made?
Is it the cradle-to-grave dependent “Julia,” about whom the Obama campaign constructed a narrative describing her inability to make it in America without government aid?
Is it the fact that food-stamp spending is on pace to more than double between 2008 and 2013?
Is it the fact that Obama’s signature legislative achievement would have the effect of making even more people — what’s that word again? — dependent on government for their health insurance?
So there are two aspects to Romney’s remarks. The first is the underlying substance of what he said, which boils down to the basic conservative critique of Obama specifically and liberalism in general: that they are highly, maybe even chiefly, interested expanding government and Americans’ dependence on it. Is anyone actually surprised by this? Does anyone think this is not a large part of what this election is about?
The second is the way he phrased it, and that did his candidacy no favors. If nothing else, he should have acknowledged that not all of the “47 percent” are dependent on government, that many of the ones who are dependent would prefer not to be, and that it is worthwhile to try to persuade at least some of the holdouts.
But I’m not sure it will be overly damaging to him, either. For starters, I agree with Ben Domenech that many members of the “47 percent” do not think they are members. How many people will hear that and think Romney was talking about them?
Going further, how many people will hear that and be offended by Romney’s remarks? And, adding the two groups together, how many of them were still actually considering voting for Romney anyway?
I would suggest we’re not talking about a very large number of people here. Now, in a close race, even a relatively small number of people can have a significant effect. But, with almost two months still to go in a campaign with much bigger issues front and center, I’m not sure a significant number of voters will make their decision even in part on Romney’s remarks at a fund-raiser back in May.
It is, however, one more reason for Romney to get back to playing offense on the economy and the size and scope of government — and soon.
– By Kyle Wingfield
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
485 comments Add your comment
Hillbilly D
September 18th, 2012
4:45 pm
TBS
My Daddy is a retired Ford employee and they also reneged on many of their agreements that were made years ago.
JDW
September 18th, 2012
4:49 pm
@Del…”Sorry though, I didn’t mean to upset any delusion that you might be enjoying.”
Stop by and see me on Nov. 6…if four more years hasn’t driven you off the edge.
Stephenson Billings
September 18th, 2012
4:49 pm
When Romney Leads Obama
“In at least four recent instances, specific actions by Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney have moved President Barack Obama in a new, different direction. It’s a trend worth noting, showing that Romney’s position have (at least some times) helped shaped Obama’s. ”
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/when-romney-leads-obama_652648.html
getalife
September 18th, 2012
4:50 pm
Eastwood:”Gop are dumb enough to ask me.”
cons got punked by Clint.
They BOTH suck
September 18th, 2012
4:50 pm
HillBillyD
It wasn’t a good scene all the way around. Yes it was good that Ford didn’t “directly” take part in the bailout, but it both amazes and amuses me when people attempt to say they were not a direct beneficiary of those very bailouts.
ODD OWL
September 18th, 2012
4:50 pm
As we all know, Karl Rove was Bush’s brain… Now he’s Romney’s brain… But there is another brain out there, thats defeating Rove’s brain at every turn… Karl Rove’s Romney brain has been checked and mated… President Jimmy carter’s Grandson is a National Hero for exposing just how much Romney/Ryan’s despise and hate hard working, non rich Americans who vote Republican… Mittens Romney said that non rich Americans who vote Republicans are moochers, who don’t pay any taxes and who suck the blood of the rich, elite millionaires and billionaires like him…
Stephenson Billings
September 18th, 2012
4:51 pm
Report: Median Income Worse Now Than It Was During Great Recession
“According to Pew, the Census Bureau showed that the median income for American households in 2009 – the official end of the Great Recession – was $52,195 (in 2011 dollars), while the median income dipped to $50,054 last year, falling 4.1 percent over two years.”
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/09/18/report-median-income-worse-now-than-it-was-during-great-recession/
JDW
September 18th, 2012
4:51 pm
“I’d like to see a Republican Party that would have put up a candidate that someone other than the hard core right wing fanatics could get behind because personally I’m not to fond of our current President. ”
Amen…last one of those on my ballot was Bush 1…
Hillbilly D
September 18th, 2012
4:55 pm
TBS
There was a great deal of hype around the fact that Alan Mulally “didn’t take his salary”. What in fact happened was that his salary was deferred until better times but he got every penny of it. He’s also gotten substantial bonuses since then. There’s usually more to these stories than meets the eye.
They BOTH suck
September 18th, 2012
4:59 pm
HillBilly D
Agreed
TRUTH
September 18th, 2012
5:07 pm
@Fred and @Hillbilly D –
Thank you for furthering my point. I am a Dem, former Republican way back when, but I broke from the R party when Reagan came along. Nothing major, just did not agree with his platform. When D’s and R’s debated back in the 80’s, there was a sense of progress with a win or a loss. It was for the better good. TODAY? It is incredulous how far right the Republicans have moved. It is on the fringes of the looney (although many think that the GOP has marched itself off the cliff). I tend to agree. Mitt is helping push the GOP over that cliff, while Ryan has stuck out his foot.
curious
September 18th, 2012
5:07 pm
Anybody remember the movie “A Face in the Crowd” with Andy Griffith playing Lonesome Rhodes?
At the end of one of Rhodes’s shows, the engineer cuts the microphone and leaves Jeffries alone in the control booth while the show’s credits roll. Millions of viewers watch (in what initially is silence) their hero Rhodes smiling and seeming to chat amiably with the rest of the cast. In truth, he’s on a vitriolic rant about the stupidity of his audience. In the broadcast booth, Jeffries reactivates his microphone, sending his words and laughter over the air live. A sequence of television viewers is shown to react to Rhodes’s description of them all as “idiots, morons, and guinea pigs.”
Could this be Romney?
antinewt
September 18th, 2012
5:11 pm
Kyle:”The first is the underlying substance of what he said, which boils down to the basic conservative critique of Obama specifically and liberalism in general: that they are highly, maybe even chiefly, interested expanding government and Americans’ dependence on it. Is anyone actually surprised by this? Does anyone think this is not a large part of what this election is about?”
Now you’re the one blindly accepting conservative talking points as fact. Trying to use the power of the government to fix problems the “free market” can’t, or won’t, does not equate to being “chiefly, interested [sic] expanding government and Americans’ dependence on it”. Helping out the unemployed during the worst economic crisis since the 30’s, helping people put food on the table during a crisis is the “right” thing to do. Helping people get health insurance that can’t does not mean we want to create a dependency or the size of government. This and other assertions by the right are nothing more than a “narrative” created by pundits like you, Kyle, that are patently false, yet you repeat them like you’ve never given them any thought. Fortunately, Americans look a little deeper than your bumper-sticker punditry.
Hillbilly D
September 18th, 2012
5:12 pm
TRUTH @ 5:07
To clarify, I think one party is as looney as the other. Both are controlled by the fringes. There was a time when you conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans in Congress. Both parties are litmus test parties now and there’s no room for anything but the party orthodoxy. Let somebody stick their head up and stray from the party line and they’ll immediately be shouted down by their own side.
Hell of a way to run a railroad.
Could this be Romney?
It could probably be damn near any national politician.
@@
September 18th, 2012
5:14 pm
JDW:
@@@…”HECK! Romney isn’t running anything other than his campaign. ”
And he can’t even do that very well…I think its back to PE for Mittens.
We have a campaigner-in-chief who’s neglecting his presidential duties.
AmVet:
I challenge you to Google “News” and bring forth evidence of unbiased reporting. You’ll have a hard time finding anything negative about Obama. Perhaps it’s journalistic courtesy for a sitting president. Needless to say, it’s difficult to find.
It finds that President Barack Obama is usually cast as failing to lift the nation’s limping economy…
Kinda hard to ignore the obvious when so many people are suffering.
I’m off to finish dinner.
TRUTH
September 18th, 2012
5:18 pm
@Hillbill D 5:12 pm – Amen. Agreed. Both parties do have “The Crazy.” But it sure is good that my crazies have had their meds. (Dang. Shameless plug for the Affordable Health Care Act!!!). But c’mon, D, “The Crazy” on the right is downright entertaining!
Linda
September 18th, 2012
5:21 pm
gm@3:59, Polls by CBS, Reuters, ABC/Washington Post, Associated Press, NBC, etc. & the average by Real Clear Politics ALL show that the majority of pollees believe America is on the wrong track. If you watched FOX News, you would not be so hog-washed & might be fair & balanced, i.e., if you really tried.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/direction_of_country-902.html
Who is insulting whom?
No one is denying that Obama took over a bad economy, except Obama. He’s now claiming he was the only one who didn’t know how bad it was & claiming to need 4 more years to fix what he said he could fix in 3.
If your reference to the man who destroyed the country was Bush, it is very apparent that you have not read the results of the Financial Inquiry Commission that Obama appointed to ascertain exactly the cause(s) of the meltdown. Needless to say, the 10 members were a hung jury. Assuming that you might not have time to read the 622-page boring report from the Democrats, may I refer you to a little 27-page report from 3 of the Republicans who actually MENTIONED Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac as culprits, you know, the formerly quasi-govt. agencies who are now in govt. receivership? If you can muddle your way thru the 1st 7 pages, you will get the core of what happened & hopefully get past your hostility.
(I’ll post it below as Kyle frowns upon 2 sites per comment.)
Linda
September 18th, 2012
5:24 pm
gm@3:59, Here’s the site I indicated. You can choose from 2 formats after “Here is the text.”.
http://keithhennessey.com/2011/01/26/the-three-man-fcic-dissent-hennessey-holtz-eakin-thomas/
Hope you don’t have to stay up too late.
Linda
September 18th, 2012
5:33 pm
Real@3:59, You’re asking a Republican is she knows what kind of govt. we have? Democracies & republics are not opposites but rather overlap. The references made by Tytler would apply to both democracies & to our republic.
cc
September 18th, 2012
5:38 pm
SBinF@11:53 am:
“and he’s already said that he’s not worried about folks that don’t vote for him”
I didn’t get that at all from his words. Romney’s simply stating that his time and energy would be better spent going for the votes he has a chance of securing. Your statement comes from your perception as an Obama supporter and is very misleading.
The Anti-wooten@11:53 am:
“These are in no way gaffes, they are what truly resides in the heart and mind of the Republican nominee for president of the United States.” Do you mean that Obama has been in 57 states thus indicating his true knowledge of the United States, that Obama was really telling the truth when he referred to “my Muslim faith” or Moochelle when she talked about them visiting Obama’s home country in Africa? I have many more of these, but I assume from what you say that these are “what truly resides in the heart and mind” of Hussein?
SBinF@11:54 am:
“It seems every day his campaign takes incompetence to new heights” For an Obama supporter, you have more than your “fair share” of courage, daring or mental incompetence. It is unbelievable that an Obama supporter would even mention the word “incompetence”.
@@
September 18th, 2012
5:41 pm
Fox News reports that a protester in Pakistan died after inhaling smoke and fumes from burning American flags.
What’s there to say?
Too bad, so sad.
schnirt
JDE
September 18th, 2012
5:46 pm
Enter your comments here hummmm – Let’s see, the GOP as it stands today – aspirin is effective birth control, rape and legitimate were used in the same sentence, the audience at the GOP convention was overwhelmingly white and male, and instead of reaching out to families and expressing sorrow over the loss of life at the embassy Mittens responds with an all out attack on policy. Now, 47% of Americans have been marginalized as free loaders, in front of a Palm Beach audience, who can afford $50,000 a plate dinners. Mr. Romney is woefully out of touch with America. The Republicans had many other excellent choices, but instead they chose Mitt. so, live with it and quit singing the blues! When the GOP gets some gumption and quits pandering to the far right maybe they can promote a candidate who doen’t have feet of sand and isn’t afraid to stand -up for what he really believes in, instead of changing course every time the political winds blow the wrong way.
Linda
September 18th, 2012
5:46 pm
Gimme Gimme Gimme@4:35, I said “I heard” because I heard. That’s the truth. I didn’t want to be accused of misquoting a radio show that I did not hear first hand today.
I have enjoyed listening to Boortz for years & will miss him when he retires & look forward to Cain again.
It was my husband who related the story to me.
What a petty accusation & such a waste of time.
Pat Robertson
September 18th, 2012
5:47 pm
“What’s there to say?
Too bad, so sad.
schnirt”
Very Christian of you. I am sure you God is proud.
Thulsa Doom
September 18th, 2012
5:55 pm
Jay,
Nope. Looks to me like they are working hand in hand with MM. Playing it off as standard communication is a copout. Does the administration have this same level of cooperation with say Fox News?
@@
September 18th, 2012
5:57 pm
PR:
I didn’t kill the guy…his unwarranted anger did.
Thulsa Doom
September 18th, 2012
5:58 pm
Oops. Sorry guys. I was reading and responding to Jay next door while I was reading this and responded to the wrong column. Mult tasking always gets me in trouble.
JamVet
September 18th, 2012
6:07 pm
I challenge you to Google “News” and bring forth evidence of unbiased reporting. You’ll have a hard time finding anything negative about Obama. Perhaps it’s journalistic courtesy for a sitting president. Needless to say, it’s difficult to find.
Where in the name of Zeus do you think I found the link to that Pew Report?
The one that you dare not touch with a 3.084 meter pole.
And where pray tell is your evidence to bolster YOUR original claim that Every time I google the news, it’s all the negativity that Romney can bear. Nothing aimed at Obama.?
You’ve got yourself in one helluva hole. Keep digging!
cc
September 18th, 2012
6:14 pm
Mr. Holmes@12:16 pm:
“Let’s call it like it is” Yes, by all means, let’s do exactly that! I could list the outright lies told by Obama, but I’m sure you already know them. We could discuss his spending and borrowing AND the $6 trillion he added to the national debt in only a little more than three and a half years, but you already know about it. Maybe we could discuss the &1.5 trillion deficit he is running, but you know that, too. How about the high rate of unemployment, over 15% if you use REAL numbers. You also know about the unemployment. There are many other items we could discuss, but you probably already know them all . . . and you are oblivious to them because you are an Obama sycophant. Peddle your BS to those like you; they’re the only people buying what you’re selling.
Pat Robertson
September 18th, 2012
6:27 pm
@@
Didn’t claim or imply you killed anyone.
Sad your God would be proud of your gloating.
“Do not gloat when your enemy falls” (Prov. 24:17).
Dave
September 18th, 2012
6:28 pm
I don’t read everything you write; but, of what I’ve read, I think this is the most whiney, least reasoned piece I’ve seen.
You start off saying there’s a lot of important stuff out there, implying it appears that no one should pay attention to this “gaffe.” Then you decide it isn’t really a gaffe, there being two prongs.
You dismiss everything he said with a “well yeah, but, here’s a bunch of stuff he should have said about Obama (not that he said any of it).” All of your points are legitimate political fodder, again none used by the candidate. Perhaps you should apply for a job. Maybe you wouldn’t conflate a tax paying percentage (ignoring the reality of what those people do pay and why they pay it) with an underclass not worthy of consideration by the candidate. This is just a guess; but, I bet each and everyone of those folks that “don’t pay income tax” dearly wish they made enough money that they had to pay it. Think I’m wrong?
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 18th, 2012
6:29 pm
Bottom line: The moocher class and those who think government should help assuage their “white guilt” vote Obozo. Those who believe in Real American values vote Romney.
Vote American.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 18th, 2012
6:33 pm
Fox News reports that a protester in Pakistan died after inhaling smoke and fumes from burning American flags…What’s there to say?
———
We should send a few million flags to Pakistan?
cc
September 18th, 2012
6:35 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout@6:29 pm:
Well stated and so very true . . .
buzzy
September 18th, 2012
6:39 pm
It looks like the Republicans have chosen another dud. This reflects on their judgement.
Real Athens
September 18th, 2012
6:40 pm
Linda:
“To say that a true Republic is a form of Democracy is in fact lunacy. A Republic, based on The Constitution and The Bill of Rights shall suffice. It means “Liberty”. Those laws are based on human existence itself, not by an arbitrary choosing of a mob called Majority. Benjamin Franklin defined liberty as thus: Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote”
Here is a little civics lesson perhaps even you can understand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7M-7LkvcVw
“To say that a true Republic is a form of Democracy is in fact lunacy. A Republic, based on The Constitution and The Bill of Rights shall suffice. It means “Liberty”. Those laws are based on human existence itself, not by an arbitrary choosing of a mob called Majority. Benjamin Franklin defined liberty as thus: Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote”
JamVet
September 18th, 2012
6:41 pm
The moocher class and those who think government should help assuage their “white guilt” vote Obozo.
Including 42% of all male American veterans who voted for Obama.
Real moochers, those 6,636,000 people.
Support the troops…
@@
September 18th, 2012
6:43 pm
AmVet:
And where pray tell is your evidence to bolster YOUR original claim that Every time I google the news, it’s all the negativity that Romney can bear. Nothing aimed at Obama.?
Step by step instructions:
Go to Google
Hit News
Scroll
You’ll find my evidence there.
PR:
If my enemy could fall alone, I wouldn’t gloat. It’s when they take others along that I find myself lacking sorrow.
I wonder if he gloated when Ambassador Stevens and his co-workers were killed. I’m betting he did.
You?
I’m outta here.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 18th, 2012
6:46 pm
It looks like the Republicans have chosen another dud. This reflects on their judgement.
———
No Republican ever ran, much less proposed, a trillion dollar deficit. No Republican ever added $6 trillion to the debt in 3+ years. No Republican doubled the number of folks on food stamps. No Republican lost us our AAA credit rating.
Asking for four more years of such abject, anti-American failure isn’t just bad judgement, it borders on treason.
Linda
September 18th, 2012
6:53 pm
My husband & I were in a few appliance stores over the weekend. When I walked thru the departments that featured washers & dryers, I could not help but notice that almost all of them, both the new washers & dryers, had glass on the front. I asked a salesman why anyone would want a washer or a dryer with glass on the front. He explained to me that they were LIBERAL washers & dryers. When MSNBC does not have enough viewership, they broadcast junk, mostly guided tours of prisons showing prisoners throwing stuff from their cells, stuff that I can’t mention here.
Anyway, the salesman told me that when liberals are denied the opportunity to watch the spin on such cable news channels such as MSNBC, they get their kicks from watching the spin cycles on their washers & dryers. According to him, those glass-front washers & dryers, as expensive as they are, are great sellers, in every color.
Skip
September 18th, 2012
6:57 pm
Poor Mitt, he actually thought he had a chance.Unlike most mindless debates here this will soon have a winner and a loser. Cons heads will explode.
MarkV
September 18th, 2012
7:21 pm
Real Athens @ 6:40 pm
I can hardly believe that I am writing a post contradicting you, especially considering with whom you have this dispute, but I think one should not be silent whenever this subject is so distorted by either side. The great irony is that it is usually the conservatives, who scorn calling the US a democracy.
Of course the US is a democracy. And of course it is a Constitutional Republic, and if you want, a Democratic Republic. It all depends on what we exactly want to say. As a form of government, we are a Constitutional Republic. But we are also a representative democracy because we reach decisions mostly by democratic means and everybody is equal under the law and has equal say, usually through elected representatives. Just like Great Britain is on one hand a Constitutional Monarchy, but at the same time a parliamentary democracy. What we do Not have is Direct Democracy, as a form of government, where decisions are subject to votes by all people.
There was a time, during the WWII, when people talked proudly about the Great Western Democracies opposing Nazism and fascism. Let’s not forget that.
md
September 18th, 2012
7:21 pm
“I’m still waiting for any Con here to answer where all the American jobs went during the past 10 years, what with all of the voo-doo trickled on economics that you like to promote???”
They went offshore because the american consumer buys cheap goods yet demands high wages……tell us all how that math is supposed to ever work??
Linda
September 18th, 2012
7:22 pm
Real@6:40, I think you have the wrong person. I never said that a republic is a form a democracy. I also think you have the wrong party. Lunacy does not exist in the Republican party. Are you mixed up, again?
You also do not need to repeat yourself. Redundancy is unnecessary. Redundancy is a Democratic thingy, doing the same thing for 4 years with no apparent results & asking for 4 more years to do the same thingy.
ld
September 18th, 2012
7:23 pm
Under any “modern” GOP administration, the moneyed investor employer clas will pay LESS percentage of their income in tax and the employee class will pay more, if not immediately, then later as national debt left to their children and grandchildren…..
Kyle hates Obamacare; I am not a fan either. On the “plus” side of Obamacare per the SMALL business employer class perspective (exempt from any requirement to provide medical insurance and able to say to employees or prospective employees ‘go find Obamacare’): now they only need to negotiate w/employees or unions about compensation.
The Obamacare boondoggle will be a boon to the truly SMALL businesses but it will be a “dog”gle to the employee class — as soon as the GOP next hits the political triple crown and has enough political clout to do away w/all assistence and protections intended to aid the employee class and all regulations and oversight intended to reign in costs.
Obamacare update: next up: debtor’s prisons for those that cannot pay the “Robert’s Tax”.
md
September 18th, 2012
7:26 pm
“Citizens United is the result of activist, GOP nominated, Justices to the Supreme Court that make NO apologies for said judicial activism.”
Go watch Scalia’s interview on CNN for some perspective on this issue……the 1st amendment was a driving force. How can they silence every other corporation and not silence the media corporations since they are protected under the 1st?
Real Athens
September 18th, 2012
7:31 pm
Talk about mixed up:
“Lunacy does not exist in the Republican party.”
Geez, where does one begin?
Real Athens
September 18th, 2012
7:38 pm
This from a person who gets her political advice from washing machine salesman.
I think front loading machines sell better because they do a better job of cleaning by virtue of the laws of gravity. However, I don’t expect a flat Earther to understand basic physics.
Real Athens
September 18th, 2012
7:40 pm
MarkV:
MarkV
No worries.
“Difference of opinion makes the horse races.” There is no contradiction and I agree with you fully. Did you watch the video? Did you notice who it was produced by?
Satire.
md
September 18th, 2012
7:43 pm
“Fat and getting fatter: U.S. obesity rates to soar by 2030″
http://news.yahoo.com/fat-getting-fatter-u-obesity-rates-soar-2030-140534331.html
So, now that our benevolent gov’t has it’s sticky little fingers in our healthcare, and has already upped the tax on cigarettes and tanning beds (and the Big Gulp for those in NY), any bets on what our betters will tax next in order to reign in all these fat people??
Or do you folks really think the powers that be will allow all those fat people to mess up the cost structure of their new found entitlement program??