2012 Tuesday: What Romney got right about Obama and dependency, where he went wrong
So it appears that, with the Muslim world burning and reports that some but not all embassies were on alert for possible security threats on the 9/11 anniversary last week, with unemployment still so high and the Obama administration’s policies still so ineffective that the Federal Reserve has resorted to a new round of printing money — with all that, we’re nevertheless doomed to another round of debate about another “gaffe” by Mitt Romney.
That gaffe consists of Romney’s remarks, during a a closed-door fund-raiser four months ago, when he said, in part:
There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that’s an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what …
And I mean the president starts off with 48, 49 … he starts off with a huge number. These are people who pay no income tax. Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax. So our message of low taxes doesn’t connect. So he’ll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. I mean that’s what they sell every four years. And so my job is not to worry about those people. I’ll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. What I have to convince the five to ten percent in the center that are independents that are thoughtful, that look at voting one way or the other depending upon in some cases emotion, whether they like the guy or not.
This is, of course, exactly the kind of sentiment you can hear on, say, Neal Boortz’s radio show: the idea that the nation is reaching a tipping point of “makers” vs. “takers,” of people who pay income taxes vs. people who receive benefits funded by those taxes (and debt).
Is it the kind of thing a presidential candidate should say? No. Is it true that all 47 percent — that statistic is correct, by the way — are “moochers”? No.
But here’s another question: What about Barack Obama’s political career, including his presidency, refutes the broader point Romney made?
Is it the cradle-to-grave dependent “Julia,” about whom the Obama campaign constructed a narrative describing her inability to make it in America without government aid?
Is it the fact that food-stamp spending is on pace to more than double between 2008 and 2013?
Is it the fact that Obama’s signature legislative achievement would have the effect of making even more people — what’s that word again? — dependent on government for their health insurance?
So there are two aspects to Romney’s remarks. The first is the underlying substance of what he said, which boils down to the basic conservative critique of Obama specifically and liberalism in general: that they are highly, maybe even chiefly, interested expanding government and Americans’ dependence on it. Is anyone actually surprised by this? Does anyone think this is not a large part of what this election is about?
The second is the way he phrased it, and that did his candidacy no favors. If nothing else, he should have acknowledged that not all of the “47 percent” are dependent on government, that many of the ones who are dependent would prefer not to be, and that it is worthwhile to try to persuade at least some of the holdouts.
But I’m not sure it will be overly damaging to him, either. For starters, I agree with Ben Domenech that many members of the “47 percent” do not think they are members. How many people will hear that and think Romney was talking about them?
Going further, how many people will hear that and be offended by Romney’s remarks? And, adding the two groups together, how many of them were still actually considering voting for Romney anyway?
I would suggest we’re not talking about a very large number of people here. Now, in a close race, even a relatively small number of people can have a significant effect. But, with almost two months still to go in a campaign with much bigger issues front and center, I’m not sure a significant number of voters will make their decision even in part on Romney’s remarks at a fund-raiser back in May.
It is, however, one more reason for Romney to get back to playing offense on the economy and the size and scope of government — and soon.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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485 comments Add your comment
@@
September 18th, 2012
3:18 pm
…as well as keep the progress that women have made for the past 50 years still moving forward
Newly released census figures show a long-standing and glaring contrast: A third of families headed by single mothers are in poverty, and they are four times more likely than married-couple families to be poor.
Note the long-standing part.
The feminists freed ‘em up to have sex and raise their children in poverty.
Progress, that ain’t!!!!
getalife
September 18th, 2012
3:21 pm
The gop plan to cheat has failed and should backfire:
“In a potentially significant victory for Democrats, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court vacated a lower court’s decision to uphold the states’s restrictive new voter ID law on Tuesday, and asked the judge to consider enjoining it instead.” Aol.
Cheaters never win
The Poor
September 18th, 2012
3:25 pm
thank goodness for people like Finn who will enable me to not have to work and still eat and get my cable….
The Poor
September 18th, 2012
3:27 pm
But we women can make our own choices….the progressives have freed us up to be poor as much as we wish
Georgia, The " New Mississippi "
September 18th, 2012
3:29 pm
This was not a “gaffe” … He said what was in in his heart like we all do…….. Opinions are more important than facts in GOP land.
Ronin
September 18th, 2012
3:31 pm
“makers” vs. “takers”, Just another example of how the tax code is used to divide people and put them in a political camp. It’s time to change from an income to a consumption tax, past time.
Funny how this happened months ago, but it’s just now coming out. Isn’t that good timing, just weeks before the election. While no fan of Romney, or Obama. President Obama starts with a 40% plus advantage, just because of his position on entitlement policy. That’s kind of tough to overcome.
@@
September 18th, 2012
3:31 pm
Getalife:
Yes corporate media looped that comment and will loop romney’s words too for fair and balance.
I’m of the opinion that the national media is way too involved in our presidential elections. Every time I google the news, it’s all the negativity that Romney can bear.
Nothing aimed at Obama.
HECK! Romney isn’t running anything other than his campaign. Obama’s running us aground, and yet……..
zero, zilch, nada from the MSM.
gm
September 18th, 2012
3:32 pm
Gee Kyle I guess Americans were less concern about the 13 embassies that was attacked under the last Administration.
I wonder do all the rep who have benefited under the Pell Grant responsible? what about our Seniors, disable vets who pay no taxes? are they not responsible?
I have yet to understand a party of poor, middle class conservatives would let a Billionare who have sent there jobs overeseas insult them and they are to dumb to see it””””””’
Georgia, The " New Mississippi "
September 18th, 2012
3:33 pm
Mitt will start WWIII in the first 60 days and have to bring back the Military Draft to try and force the 47 % to fight for ” his values “. The other 53 % will take the old white guy exemption. Good luck !!!!
Linda
September 18th, 2012
3:33 pm
Speaking of Neal Boortz, I heard that a lady called his show today to relate that she had been treating groups of her left-leaning friends to Dinesh D’Souza’s film: 2016-Obama’s America.
One of her friends she actually treated also called in. His main revelation was that the corrupt media was manipulating the public. Since watching the film, he has become a patron of FOX News so that he can hear ALL the issues & BOTH SIDES of the issues, rather than suppression & mere propaganda.
To listen to Neal’s interview with D’Souza on 9/16/12, click here:
http://www.boortz.com/list/entertainment/neal-boortz-show-audio-archives/eGx/
Real Athens
September 18th, 2012
3:37 pm
Complete utter delusion:
… “FOX News … ALL the issues & BOTH SIDES of the issues.”
Sigh.
“… some folks just can’t be reached.” – Strother Martin
Hillbilly D
September 18th, 2012
3:38 pm
This is just common sense, to me.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2012/09/16/libyan-president-attack-on-u-s-consulate-was-premeditated/
Mary Elizabeth
September 18th, 2012
3:39 pm
I was not going to vote for Gov. Romney anyway, and I have no idea how many people will think that they are part of the 47%, but the following is how strongly I feel about the remarks that Gov. Romney made, which in my opinion, reveal his core way of relating to human beings:
I heard more real passion and conviction in Romney’s voice than I have ever previously heard. This is what he believes in his heart and in his gut. The problem with what he believes is that it is full of stereotypical thinking that reflects little in shades of gray, or nuance. Moreover, it reflects a man with a coldness of heart, imo.
Heaven help this nation – and this globe – if this man becomes President of the United States. What is sad is that Gov. Romney divides people into categories, instead of seeing the humanity – within all people – that connects all people. And, he not only divides, he sees with a hierarchial, smallness of vision that some are better than others based on their wealth, which evidently in his thinking, equates to virtue and hard work. Little does he understand that there are millions of people in this nation who work very hard, all of their lives, without making high incomes. What a sad, little person of shallow vision Romney has turned out to be – that that video revealed.
When the consciousness of a people centers on “tit for tat,” instead of simply understanding, those people have become diminished in their thinking and in their souls. And, people who think in those ways are diminished people, no matter what the status of their wealth is.
I appeal to the American people, and to Southerners, not to elect Mitt Romney as our President. We deserve better.
Goldie
September 18th, 2012
3:39 pm
“Since watching the film, he has become a patron of FOX News so that he can hear ALL the issues & BOTH SIDES of the issues, rather than suppression & mere propaganda.”
Bwaaaaaa — classic Con post! Thank you!
JamVet
September 18th, 2012
3:40 pm
…so veterans can have jobs and bennies.
It is only rarely that even the most rabid of our GOP Uncle Sam haters are so proudly derisive of America’s veterans.
But you are the perfect Saxby constituent.
Well played, sick o….
@@
September 18th, 2012
3:40 pm
Linda:
His main revelation was that the corrupt media was manipulating the public.
AMEN!
As long as the corrupt media leans left, there’s not only a need for FNN…there’s also a need for Citizens United.
Whether liberals want to acknowledge it or not, Citizens United is a direct result of left-leaning media bias.
gm
September 18th, 2012
3:41 pm
Amazing people making films about a living President, can any one remember of any negative films of any President while still alive? the low IQ hateful vieweres at fox are going in history next to the Jim Crowe supporters of their time.
Look at the billions of dollars have been made off Obama, from the idiot Sara Palin to scum bag Sean Hannity, wow
JamVet
September 18th, 2012
3:45 pm
Nothing aimed at Obama. zero, zilch, nada from the MSM.
Do tell…
A study finds that news coverage of both major presidential candidates has been more negative this year than in almost any other recent election.
The report is by the Pew Research Center’s Project for Excellence in Journalism. It finds that President Barack Obama is usually cast as failing to lift the nation’s limping economy, while and his rival, Republican Mitt Romney, is usually framed as a plutocrat and corporate raider.
The report, released Thursday, examines coverage by 50 major media outlets over a 10-week period, from the end of May to early August.
It found that “master narratives” about both Obama and Romney have been equally unfavorable, with some 72 percent of stories about Obama being negative along with 71 percent of stories about Romney.
Damn facts always getting in the way of a great made up story…
Real Athens
September 18th, 2012
3:46 pm
Hillbilly:
I read the article and I’d have to agree with your assessment. However, I was more drawn to a commenter on the blog that wrote:
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result … Planned or unplanned is academic. The foreign policy of aggression that has evolved from the Republican right (see “The Project for the New American Century”) is a disaster. Corporate America’s imperialism has caused unnecessary and extremely expensive wars that account for a major portion of the national debt. We have invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, attacked Libya and Pakistan, sanctioned Iran, etc. so why would attacks on American embassies be a surprise. Our response will be more armaments and an ever-larger military budget. It hasn’t worked and never will. And I suppose the person who thinks Obama is not qualified believed Dubya to be and Romney will be?”
Real Athens
September 18th, 2012
3:48 pm
“Whether liberals want to acknowledge it or not, Citizens United is a direct result of left-leaning media bias.”
Citizens United is the result of activist, GOP nominated, Justices to the Supreme Court that make NO apologies for said judicial activism.
Hillbilly D
September 18th, 2012
3:51 pm
Real Athens
What makes no sense to me is why every embassy in that part of the world wasn’t on high alert on 9/11.
beam me up
September 18th, 2012
3:51 pm
I think you are really downplaying the impact of this way too much. Romney’s chances largely hinge on turnout among lower income people (not just those making less than $200,000 per year using his yardstick, either). His chances entirely hang on rural, less educated and older white voters being more enthusiastic about his candidacy than urban minorities and young people are about Obama’s. This hurts him both ways. He was already a longshot at this point. This may have sunk him.
The electoral vote landscape already required him to almost run the table in the swing states where the only one in which he was polling ahead was North Carolina. This is going to hurt him there.
Mitt is probably toast. He’s reeling, and all it is going to take to knock him out is one quick jab about his Swiss bank accounts in the debates.
HDB
September 18th, 2012
3:52 pm
The problem is that in his statements and his actions lie the TRUE Mitt Romney….one that can’t associate with anyone he deemed beneath him!! You could see that Romney couldn’t deal with the public in Pittsburgh (”these are 7/11 cookies”)….in Philadelphia…when he visited a black school and couldn’t relate….the NAACP Convention in New Orleans..when he just walked off the stage without shaking the people’s hands……
Linda
September 18th, 2012
3:52 pm
To expand on Centrist’s comment @ 12:23, Tytler’s unverified entire quote & explanation is:
A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to selfishness;
From selfishness to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage.
Where is the United States today? As a nation, we have outlived our life expectancy by 36 years. The majority of Americans believe that our country is on the wrong path. Will America be better off 4 years from now or will Obama finally finish us off?
Hillbilly D
September 18th, 2012
3:54 pm
There’s one more big event that may affect the election and that’s if Israel hits Iran before election day. My guess is that it’s even money that they will.
SisterSarah
September 18th, 2012
3:55 pm
“Gaffe”, Gaffe?? GAFFE???!!!! That was a pretty long “gaffe” right there. No…he was breaking it down for the good folks. In fact he gave a detailed explanation of his approach.
“Gaffe”. ROFLU, It doesn’t get any better than this!
Don't Tread
September 18th, 2012
3:56 pm
“I’m still waiting for any Con here to answer where all the American jobs went during the past 10 years”
Well, 12 to be exact…starting when Clinton signed the act giving China “most favored trade nation” status…and now we have a mountain of trade deficits with them. Wonder where those jobs went? Hmmm…
Tyronda
September 18th, 2012
3:56 pm
Anyone see the ‘quick vote’ poll over on CNN earlier today? They’ve now taken it down probably because the results were not what CNN expected.
The question was, do Romney’s ‘gaffe’ remarks make you more or less likely to support his candidacy. The overwhelming response was “more likely”.
Don't Tread
September 18th, 2012
3:57 pm
Citizens United is a direct result of the Left attempting to deny free speech rights of people who don’t agree with them, and having it blow up in their face.
gm
September 18th, 2012
3:59 pm
Linda
The majority of Americans believe that our country is on the wrong path
Please stop insulting us with your misformed fox news, these nut jobs want you to think President Obama took over during the golden years, and America woke up one morning after Clinton and their was Obama, the man who destroyed the country for 8 yeas never happen””””””’
Real Athens
September 18th, 2012
3:59 pm
Linda:
Um, you know, the United States isn’t a Democracy. It’s a Democratic Republic. BIG DIFFERENCE.
But hey, don’t let facts get in the way of your misinformation campaigns. Your heroes don’t.
Just Saying..
September 18th, 2012
4:01 pm
“One of her friends she actually treated also called in. His main revelation was that the corrupt media was manipulating the public. Since watching the film, he has become a patron of FOX News so that he can hear ALL the issues & BOTH SIDES of the issues, rather than suppression & mere propaganda.”
And all Boortz’s people said “Amen”…
JamVet
September 18th, 2012
4:03 pm
Really HD?
The USA has always had Israel on a very short leash. (That is what $85,000,000,000.00 gets us.)
I’d be shocked if they don’t toe the US line like they always have…
Hillbilly D
September 18th, 2012
4:08 pm
JamVet
I’d disagree. I don’t think they’ll sit by and let Iran’s nuclear program continue. Of course, it might not be a military strike, could be a cyber strike, etc. Given our history over the last 60 years or so, if I were another country, I wouldn’t put any dependence on the U.S. to follow through on any promises to me. We’ve left people holding the bag, time and again.
ODD OWL
September 18th, 2012
4:09 pm
Mittens Romney didn’t pay any Federal income taxes for the last ten years… Most, if not all rich people do not pay Federal income tax.. they collect their income and profits from investments and investments are taxed under capital gain tax rates… Romney admitted that he paid a 13 % capital gain tax rate in 2011… Non rich workers who earn on average about $50.000 a year, pay about 35 % of their salaries in taxes… “Rule of Thumb” If you’re not rich, don’t listen to the Republican’s sh*t… Share the wealth, tax the rich, pay down the debt…
Real Athens
September 18th, 2012
4:09 pm
Come November 5 I think you’ll see whose face Citizen’s United and it’s unlimited corporate spending blows up in.
I don’t think it will be Obama’s.
Cubana Lust
September 18th, 2012
4:13 pm
I’ll take your mind off of this craziness boys.
Hit me up on my twitter
Real Athens
September 18th, 2012
4:14 pm
Israel decimated Iraq’s nuclear ambitions with a coordinated airstrike in 1981 — with Iran’s help no less.
To think they won’t do the same thing by hook or by crook is denial.
However, I don’t know which way it would sway the election. You know the Military Industrial Complex is praying for it either way.
gm
September 18th, 2012
4:16 pm
The difference between these two men are so clear, Obama saved the auto for Americans he did not care if you were dem or rep American jobs were on the line.
Gordon Gekko(Mitt) only care about the rich, yet poor, middle class conservative dont know when they have been insulted, there are seniors, veterans who dont pay taxes are rep, are they dependent on goverment?
Cubana Lust
September 18th, 2012
4:22 pm
To Real Athens; sounds like you need some…
Stephenson Billings
September 18th, 2012
4:27 pm
The latest Gallop poll has Obama up by 1 when he was up by 7 a week ago. Coincidence this video surfaced now?
Don't Tread
September 18th, 2012
4:28 pm
“Obama saved the auto for Americans”
No, he circumvented bankruptcy law to reward the unions with taxpayer money.
Ford got through the hard times without using taxpayer money. They “saved the auto for Americans”.
Stephenson Billings
September 18th, 2012
4:30 pm
As if we didn’t already know:
Obama In 1998: “I Actually Believe In Redistribution”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge3aGJfDSg4
Missgrace
September 18th, 2012
4:32 pm
This is the offensive part in Romney’s remarks about the so called 47%: “I’ll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.” This comment is not about getting votes, this is an arrrogrant characterization of half of the US populations as moochers. And it is not a gaffe– It is talking point for the GOP.
Stephenson Billings
September 18th, 2012
4:33 pm
The Data Behind Romney’s 47% Comments
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2012/09/18/the-data-behind-romneys-47-comments/
Gimme Gimme Gimme
September 18th, 2012
4:35 pm
Linda – “Speaking of Neal Boortz, I heard that a lady called his show today.”
Heard? Yeah by you.
Stephenson Billings
September 18th, 2012
4:39 pm
Emails reveal Justice Dept. regularly enlists Media Matters to spin press
“Dozens of pages of emails between DOJ Office of Public Affairs Director Tracy Schmaler and Media Matters staffers show Schmaler, Holder’s top press defender, working with Media Matters to attack reporters covering DOJ scandals.”
http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/18/emails-reveal-justice-dept-regularly-enlists-media-matters-to-spin-press/
JDW
September 18th, 2012
4:40 pm
@@@…”HECK! Romney isn’t running anything other than his campaign. ”
And he can’t even do that very well…I think its back to PE for Mittens.
They BOTH suck
September 18th, 2012
4:42 pm
“Ford got through the hard times without using taxpayer money.”
Directly yes, but indirectly no.
Ford received very low interest loans to revamp several facilities as well as being helped when suppliers were bailed out. Ford directly lobbied for the bailout.
Did you forget when Ford attempted to run commercials saying that they unlike GM and Chrysler, they didn’t take part in the bailouts, only to retract when the facts came to light?
Stephenson Billings
September 18th, 2012
4:43 pm
It’s funny cuz it’s probably true….
JAY LENO: “Well, according to the Labor Department, unemployment fell from 8.3 to 8.1 percent last month. But that was because only, that’s because, rather, 368,000 Americans gave up looking for work. And today, President Obama said that’s a step in the right direction, and he is encouraging more Americans to give up looking for work so the numbers will come down a little bit.”