2012 Tuesday: What Romney got right about Obama and dependency, where he went wrong
So it appears that, with the Muslim world burning and reports that some but not all embassies were on alert for possible security threats on the 9/11 anniversary last week, with unemployment still so high and the Obama administration’s policies still so ineffective that the Federal Reserve has resorted to a new round of printing money — with all that, we’re nevertheless doomed to another round of debate about another “gaffe” by Mitt Romney.
That gaffe consists of Romney’s remarks, during a a closed-door fund-raiser four months ago, when he said, in part:
There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that’s an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what …
And I mean the president starts off with 48, 49 … he starts off with a huge number. These are people who pay no income tax. Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax. So our message of low taxes doesn’t connect. So he’ll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. I mean that’s what they sell every four years. And so my job is not to worry about those people. I’ll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. What I have to convince the five to ten percent in the center that are independents that are thoughtful, that look at voting one way or the other depending upon in some cases emotion, whether they like the guy or not.
This is, of course, exactly the kind of sentiment you can hear on, say, Neal Boortz’s radio show: the idea that the nation is reaching a tipping point of “makers” vs. “takers,” of people who pay income taxes vs. people who receive benefits funded by those taxes (and debt).
Is it the kind of thing a presidential candidate should say? No. Is it true that all 47 percent — that statistic is correct, by the way — are “moochers”? No.
But here’s another question: What about Barack Obama’s political career, including his presidency, refutes the broader point Romney made?
Is it the cradle-to-grave dependent “Julia,” about whom the Obama campaign constructed a narrative describing her inability to make it in America without government aid?
Is it the fact that food-stamp spending is on pace to more than double between 2008 and 2013?
Is it the fact that Obama’s signature legislative achievement would have the effect of making even more people — what’s that word again? — dependent on government for their health insurance?
So there are two aspects to Romney’s remarks. The first is the underlying substance of what he said, which boils down to the basic conservative critique of Obama specifically and liberalism in general: that they are highly, maybe even chiefly, interested expanding government and Americans’ dependence on it. Is anyone actually surprised by this? Does anyone think this is not a large part of what this election is about?
The second is the way he phrased it, and that did his candidacy no favors. If nothing else, he should have acknowledged that not all of the “47 percent” are dependent on government, that many of the ones who are dependent would prefer not to be, and that it is worthwhile to try to persuade at least some of the holdouts.
But I’m not sure it will be overly damaging to him, either. For starters, I agree with Ben Domenech that many members of the “47 percent” do not think they are members. How many people will hear that and think Romney was talking about them?
Going further, how many people will hear that and be offended by Romney’s remarks? And, adding the two groups together, how many of them were still actually considering voting for Romney anyway?
I would suggest we’re not talking about a very large number of people here. Now, in a close race, even a relatively small number of people can have a significant effect. But, with almost two months still to go in a campaign with much bigger issues front and center, I’m not sure a significant number of voters will make their decision even in part on Romney’s remarks at a fund-raiser back in May.
It is, however, one more reason for Romney to get back to playing offense on the economy and the size and scope of government — and soon.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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485 comments Add your comment
iggy
September 19th, 2012
9:20 am
Im just posting the facts. Not sure what you are smoking…
GIGO
September 19th, 2012
9:27 am
Enough with the poor seniors crap!
American Seniors: Poor No More
Through good times and bad, booms and busts, Republicans and Democrats, the percentage of seniors in poverty has gone down. Counting from 1966, when more than a quarter of all seniors were “in poverty” to 2011 (less than one in ten), that’s a drop of about 70 percent.
WOW
September 19th, 2012
9:29 am
@ AmericaFirst Everyone:
Seems like you are doing just what you says bothers you by saying that everyone should vote for Romney based on the national debt? Shouldn’t everyone have the right to vote based on issues that they feel are most important. Just a thought….
Paul
September 19th, 2012
9:32 am
If Romney truly believe what he is saying about reducing dependency upon government then he should be willing to go the full distance and eliminate subsidies to energy companies, subsidies to large agricultural interests, tax breaks for fund managers, and the many other ways that people of all economic levels benefit directly or indirectly from the government. I would suggest that everyone read the recent article in Time magazine that illustrates how many things that we take for granted are the result of government subsides, tax breaks, or other forms of incentives. Mitt cant attack just those who dont pay federal income tax without looking at the full equation.
Gimme Gimme Gimme
September 19th, 2012
9:37 am
I am tired of Liberal’s crying about tax breaks. Tax breaks are Liberal’s favorite tools for social engineering. Liberal’s whine and complain the tax code isn’t fair and when someone suggests a flat tax they cry about that to.
Liberals = Crying
MarkV
September 19th, 2012
9:54 am
The most interesting questions about Romney’s comments regarding the 47% are whether he already predicts his defeat, lives in an illusion, or he is just bad in math.
If Romney concedes that 47% of the electorate, those who do not pay income taxes, will not vote for him, then he must believe that among the 53% that pay income taxes, there are no firm Obama supporters – only some independents. Is he really so delusional, bad in math, or just sees the handwriting on the wall?
David R. Boag, DDS
September 19th, 2012
10:09 am
AmericaFirstEveryone,
I really don’t like it when people say that we are headed for bankruptcy as a nation. It is WORSE than that! Bankruptcy is FORGIVENESS of debt that the founding fathers put into our laws to allow mistakes to be forgiven by the government every so often. But who says there is going to be forgiveness of our debt by China? Not me! They aren’t just going to roll over on our TRILLIONS of dollars. If we can’t pay em, they will be coming after us! Are we really going to wait until that is inevitable before realizing our mistakes?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 19th, 2012
10:10 am
Through good times and bad, booms and busts, Republicans and Democrats, the percentage of seniors in poverty has gone down.
Almost exclusively due to Social Security and Medicare.
Before the mid 60’s most elderly folks lived with their adult children. With SS they could live on their own.
Guess what that means? Instead of selling 1 house to an extended family, you sell two houses. Instead of needing 1 TV, you now need 2 tv’s. Instead of 1 family car, you now might need 2.
See how a government program leads to increased consumption, demand and economic value?
Didn’t think so.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 19th, 2012
10:12 am
We can’t go bankrupt. Turn off the Fox News and quit looking like idgits. The Debt burden is what we owe – to each other. In order to have debt you have to have two sides – one the debtor and one the debtee.
Progressive Humanist
September 19th, 2012
10:22 am
Who are the people who pay no taxes? Where do they live? What political party do they associate with? This map will help answer those questions (scroll down to the middle): http://www.electoral-vote.com/
Progressive Humanist
September 19th, 2012
10:23 am
It’s hilarious that so many Republicans are coming out of the woodwork to agree with Romney on his 47% comments when a large portion of those 47% are actually Republicans. The single largest group in that 47% who don’t pay taxes are senior citizens on social security, who of course tend to vote Republican. And many of the conservatives commenting here probably make $50k or less which means that after deductions for children, mortgage, etc. they also pay no federal income tax. So you’re the deadbeats Romney was talking about.
And to further the irony, most of the people who pay no taxes do so because of Republican policies, which lowered taxes and expanded deductions for school loans, families, homes, investments, etc.
Those Republicans who are griping here don’t even realize they’re griping about themselves and doing so over policies Republicans put into place to begin with. It’s wonderful amusement.
Fred ™
September 19th, 2012
10:26 am
But who says there is going to be forgiveness of our debt by China?
We have a loan with China? Really? Who signed the note lol?
If we can’t pay em, they will be coming after us!
Really? I know Neal and Rush scare you every single day but again REALLY? What are they coming after us with? Are they going to cut their cheap imports made by slave labor? They’ll be bankrupt in a week. What will they do? Man up, don’t be scared. It will be ok.
Del
September 19th, 2012
10:32 am
Paul@9:32…I agree
Progressive Humanist
September 19th, 2012
10:34 am
Why don’t all the mooching Republicans that Romney was talking about who don’t pay any taxes (senior citizens, those making $50k a year or less) get off their butts and start taking responsibility for themselves? Why do they feel the government should take care of them? Why do they think they should be entitled to food and healthcare?
David R. Boag, DDS
September 19th, 2012
10:41 am
Finn @ 10:12,
You said that like the money is Monopoly money, like it either isn’t real or like we’re just winking at each other as we take billions and trillions from one another like it doesn’t matter. Like we can just keep doing this. Quadrillions here we come! No consequences to our actions.
Um, name a time in history when the piper didnt eventually get paid?
I’m supposed to believe you rather than centuries and of history that say otherwise?
Who do you think you are?
David R. Boag, DDS
September 19th, 2012
10:50 am
Fred,
Coronation. Just thought I’d throw that one word in there. It seems to help make you go away. Worked last time anyway.
And I’m sure when we answer China that we don’t actually owe them anything because we don’t have a signature, they’ll just accept that willingly. Blow it off! It’s only trillions of dollars. La-dee-da!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 19th, 2012
10:53 am
Excellent link, Progressive Humanist.;
the Cons just don’t want to admit they ARE what they profess to hate.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 19th, 2012
10:55 am
What are they coming after us with?
They’ll stop building our iPhones!
Fred ™
September 19th, 2012
10:55 am
Sorry China. I know we owe you money but we were really stupid with our money. You see we spent 50 billion on a few aircraft carriers and and each aircraft carrier has about 90 F-18 aircraft at 29-57 million each, depending on the model. You won’t BELIEVE what we spent on missiles for those puppies.
Well we can certainly repay that debt on missile at a time. Just let us know where you want them…………
I know. Stick to teeth. Some poor schmuck is sitting there wasting his her time because you are here blogging about being scared…………..
You lack the basic understanding of economics. We OWN China’s economy. If we close our markets and grainery, they go bankrupt and hungry. It’s really that simple.
Remember Japan when THEY “held all our debt?” How did that work out for them?
MarkV
September 19th, 2012
10:58 am
David R. Boag, DDS @ 10:41 am
“Um, name a time in history when the piper didnt eventually get paid? I’m supposed to believe you rather than centuries and of history that say otherwise?”
For the past more than 70 years, there has been no period of time when the US would be without a sizable national debt. The piper must be awfully patient.
Fred ™
September 19th, 2012
11:03 am
For the past more than 70 years, there has been no period of time when the US would be without a sizable national debt. The piper must be awfully patient.
Shhhhhhhhhh you are ruining a perfect fearmongering moment brought to you by talk radio. And here is their greatest fear………
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc80tFJpTuo
Just Saying..
September 19th, 2012
11:11 am
“You hope for some degree of stability, but you recognize this is going to remain an unsolved problem,” adding, “And we kick the ball down the field and hope that ultimately somehow, something will happen to resolve it.”
I think you posters are right: The US does need leadership…
Bruno
September 19th, 2012
11:46 am
All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that’s an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what …
I see the Libs have been having a field day tearing apart Romney’s remarks. Since I’m not part of the 47%, I’m hoping that one of them can make a case for me to vote for Obama and his Free Stuff Presidency. Hint: I didn’t receive any bailout or stimulus money, no Cash For My Clunker, no Mortgage Modification, no welfare or food stamps, and I’m not in a union so I’m not exempted from Obamacare.
They BOTH suck
September 19th, 2012
12:01 pm
Bruno
I know it isn’t the gist of your post, but there are numerous companies that are non union that are exempt from having to meet the start dates for Obamacare nor all big donors to Obama.
Thulsa Doom
September 19th, 2012
12:09 pm
Where Romney went wrong was in largely telling the truth. People don’t want to hear the truth. He was wrong on a couple of counts but overall he was right. When nearly 1 in 2 of us is being subsidized by the other you then have a system that is unsustainable. And breaking people of the culture of dependency is a hard, hard thing to do.
Fred ™
September 19th, 2012
12:20 pm
Hey Bruno!!!!!!!!!!! How’s tricks?
As to the 47%? Don’t forget that combat soldiers don’t pay taxes/ Are they moochers looking for a friggin handout? Disabled vets don’t pay taxes, are THEY frigging moochers looking for a handout? Itwas a really assinine and elitist thing for Romney to say and shows his disdain for all poor folks, which would be everyone who’s daddy DIDN’T tell them”Here’s 10 million son, don’t lose it all at once.” He and Paris Hitlon are birds of a feather.
Fred ™
September 19th, 2012
12:21 pm
They BOTH suck
September 19th, 2012
12:01 pm
Bruno
I know it isn’t the gist of your post, but there are numerous companies that are non union that are exempt from having to meet the start dates for Obamacare nor all big donors to Obama.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
My buddies company isn’t and he can’t get an exemption. He doesn’t HAVE 2 million “surplus” a year. It’s going to break him AND his company.
They BOTH suck
September 19th, 2012
12:24 pm
Fred
I’m not sure how they decided if a company gets a “waiver” (It isn’t an exemption) but as you know they are not all union or even huge Obama supporters.
I couldn’t tell you I agree or disagree with the criteria, because I have no idea what it is. I am sure there are “favors”, don’t get me wrong.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 19th, 2012
12:25 pm
Hint: I didn’t receive any bailout or stimulus money
This is why the Cons are clueless. If you paid income taxes during Obama’s Presidency then you received some of the stimulus as a tax break.
Keep watching that Fox News cons – you are really impressing us with all this knowledge you drop.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 19th, 2012
12:34 pm
From “Useless Views and World Distort”
Is Obama Stimulus Plan Also the Biggest Tax Cut Ever?
February 12, 2009
Are the tax cuts in the stimulus bill the largest is U.S. history? Yes, sort of.
Steven Waldman, a former U.S. News editor (well before I wandered these halls), makes an interesting case that thecoming tax cut will indeed be the biggest ever. The compromise stimulus plan includes $282 billion in tax cuts over two years. According to the Wall Street Journal, Bush’s first two years of tax cuts amounted to $174 billion. A second batch in 2004 and 2005 cost $231. And those were thought to be bigger than the tax cuts offered by Reagan, Kennedy, or others.
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2009/02/12/is-obama-stimulus-plan-also-the-biggest-tax-cut-ever
God Don't Like Ugly
September 19th, 2012
2:03 pm
Today I watched Mitt Romney’s Mother Talking About Her Husband
Being On Welfare.
God will ALWAYS EXPOSE hypocrites.
God Don't Like Ugly
September 19th, 2012
2:06 pm
@Thulsa Doom
September 19th, 2012
12:09 pm
Where Romney went wrong was in largely telling the truth. People don’t want to hear the truth. He was wrong on a couple of counts but overall he was right. When nearly 1 in 2 of us is being subsidized by the other you then have a system that is unsustainable. And breaking people of the culture of dependency is a hard, hard thing to do.================================
On YouTube Mitt Romney’s Mother Talking About Her Husband
Being On Welfare.
Cons are HYPOCRITES.
ROMNEY’S FATHER WAS A 47% MOOCHER.
David R. Boag, DDS
September 19th, 2012
2:17 pm
Fred,
I’m not saying that China doing that will be the next thing that happens. But eventually, it DOES go there.
And listen to yourself, threatening war (perhaps nuclear…why not, right?) because WE tell THEM that WE aren’t going to pay THEM back, as if WE aren’t in the wrong. I’m sorry my friend, but if you think the rest of the world will just sit idly by and do nothing by that point, you will be sorely mistaken.
This is because the first thing they will do is withhold any more funds for buying our bonds. Now, we are in NO position with our current administration to handle that, so when we need to raise the debt ceiling because otherwise we will starve ourselves, we will do petty much the only thing we can…print more money. Oh, lookee here, we’re already doing that, and just calling it something else. And China hasn’t even pulled the plug yet! Outstanding!
Then as our dollar dies the death of a thousand other dollars and now we start to screw all the other countries too with our worthless currency, I’m SURE that when they also object and we threaten to nuke ALL of them too, they wouldn’t DREAM of forming any kind of coalition of nations to stand against that. I mean–gasp–that sounds almost like the United Nations! If we take other countries’ money and say we won’t return it, I’m sure they too will sit idly by. That’s just what the world did with Hitler too. Oh, wait…what? We didn’t? Oh, that’s right!
Not to mention by the time that happens (long before it, actually) we’re already screwed here, because our money is worth half of what it was (if that), so U-3 unemployment is at 20% or higher. But we’ll still have the nuclear threat and geniuses like Fred who think that will still work against EVEYBODY ELSE!
Brilliant plan, Fred. You missed your calling to be part of the Obama administration!
I’m just glad we’ve got smart guys like you around to make the rest of us look ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT!
Fred ™
September 19th, 2012
4:08 pm
I’m sure Boag you are a genius and get no dissent with your hands in a patients mouth as you pontificate, but your knowledge of politics and world economy is dismal. Maybe when you grow up you will understand. Meanwhile, I hear nothing from you I don’t hear from Boortz etal. How does it feel to be a sock puppet? Doesn’t that hand up your ass get uncomfortable? I would think it would……….
One day when you find out that the US is the largest consumer of the world wide market and that any collapse we have is effects the whole world in a BIG way you will begin to understand……….
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