From Benghazi to Cairo to Jerusalem to Damascus, a question: Where does America stand? (Updated)
In March 2011, the U.S. and our allies intervened in Libya’s burgeoning civil war to prevent a massacre of civilians by forces loyal to Moammar Gadhafi in the coastal city of Banghazi. Yesterday, militants in that city — including, perhaps, some of the more extremist elements of the rebels whose cause we took up last year — showed their gratitude by killing four Americans, including our ambassador to Libya.
“Lafayette, we are here,” it was not.
The murders in Benghazi followed a siege earlier in the day of the U.S. embassy in Cairo in neighboring Egypt. Both attacks were blamed on Islamic extremists angered by a film hardly anyone in America had heard of, made by someone hardly anyone in America had heard of or discussed, that purportedly insults the Muslim prophet Muhammad. (See screen grab below, a Google search for the name of the movie in question. Note: I stopped at Sept. 5 because results in the days after that date begin to include references to the attacks, which obviously were added as updates after the fact.)
Image: Google screen grab
The attacks came, of course, on the 11th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks on American soil.
In Cairo, protesters scaled our embassy’s walls, lowered our flag — which was at half-staff in remembrance of the 9/11 attacks — and replaced it with a banner similar to the one used by al-Qaida, and chanted, “We are all Osama,” as in bin Laden. As they did so, some member(s) of the embassy’s staff wrote repeatedly on Twitter — the social media platform that was widely used by young Egyptians during their uprising against Hosni Mubarak’s government — that the U.S. government condemned … the movie. Those tweets were later deleted as the State Department distanced itself from those remarks, but do not believe that the reflexive sensibility on display in the messages came out of the blue: If nothing else, our diplomats, especially three and a half years into a presidency, are well-trained to reflect the prevailing beliefs and sensibilities of the administration in office. That is their job, after all.
The interim president of Libya has apologized for the deaths in his country. As of this writing, there has been no such regret expressed by Egyptian officials. On the contrary, the Muslim Brotherhood, one of whose members is the country’s new president, called for nationwide protests against the film on Friday. At least they said the protests are supposed to be peaceful, I guess.
For his part, the president this morning issued a statement that read, in part: “While the United States rejects efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others, we must all unequivocally oppose the kind of senseless violence that took the lives of these public servants.” The moral equivalence on display here — this is bad, that is bad, and no one should do bad things — is astounding.
But what’s really astounding is that, 11 years to the day after 9/11, our embassies in two Arab countries could be attacked by Islamic terrorists, and our government’s response would include wagging its finger at the people whose non-violent actions allegedly triggered the terrorists’ violence. That, 11 years to the day after 9/11, we still have people who believe these extremists need a reason to be mad at us.
Folks: They don’t need a reason, just an excuse to hand to the useful idiots who will continue to excuse them as people with legitimate religious grievances. (UPDATED at 12:25 p.m.: CNN is now reporting, based on information from “U.S. sources,” that the attacks in Benghazi were planned in advance and used protests about the movie as a diversion.) They just hate us. Period.
Now, “they” does not mean “all Muslims” or “all Arabs” or any such thing. But it does mean a large segment of the populations in the Middle East and North Africa, a relative few of whom trade on the ignorance and pliability of many others to pursue their totalitarian political goals.
Yet, 11 years later, they storm our embassy buildings and kill our civilians, and, 11 years later, our president doesn’t betray an understanding of the cause and effect at play here.
Add to these events and responses the statement from the White House, also yesterday, that the president is not available to meet with the prime minister of Israel, our closest ally in the region and a country known to be mulling military action to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear weapon. Add to it as well the continuing massacre of Syrians by their own government, in a war eerily similar to the one in which we intervened in Libya, except for the fact that this time even our weakest efforts to stop the government-sponsored killing have been blocked by our supposed friends in Moscow.
And for all the crowing from Democrats, and specifically Obama, at their convention last week about their supposed foreign-policy superiority, the question I keep coming back to is one uttered a week earlier, by Condoleezza Rice, at the GOP convention:
Where does America stand? You see when the friends or foes alike don’t know the answer to that question, unambiguously and clearly, the world is likely to be a more dangerous and chaotic place.
Evidently so.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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575 comments Add your comment
Dearie
September 12th, 2012
12:12 pm
“Yet, 11 years later, they storm our embassy buildings and kill our civilians, and, 11 years later, our president doesn’t betray an understanding of the cause and effect at play here.”
SO TRUE AND SO FRIGHTENING! Good column Kyle
Del
September 12th, 2012
12:19 pm
Obama said that those responsible will be brought to justice. He also said that Libyan authorities came to the aid of our Ambassador and his staff. Obama needs to assure the American people and the families of our fallen that a full investigation will be made to determine all of the facts including the level of aid rendered by Libyan authorities at the time of this attack and ensure that the Libyan government participates in finding these terrorists and bringing them to justice as terrorist war criminals.
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
12:20 pm
Folks: They don’t need a reason, just an excuse to hand to the useful idiots who will continue to excuse them as people with legitimate religious grievances. They just hate us. Period.
Kyle–You took the words right out of my mouth. Content, well-adjusted people in this world don’t respond violently to controversial films or slights toward their religious beliefs. The hatred which drives the terrorists has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with their own discontent in this world along with a culture which accepts violence.
and replaced it with a banner similar to the one used by al-Qaida, and chanted, “We are all Osama,” as in bin Laden.
The truly goofy thing about this particular protest is that, by all accounts, Bin Laden wasn’t a faithful follower of Mohammed.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/04/bin-ladens-theology/
cc
September 12th, 2012
12:22 pm
America has no clearly defined foreign policy, and hasn’t had one since January, 2009. I’m sure the actions in Libya and Egypt will necessitate another ‘apology tour’ and a few speeches by Hussein. After all, an eloquent speech with the right delivery solves all problems.
The United States could and should sever all ties with the Middle East with the exception of Israel. After all, we are no longer dependent on their oil. We have the Canadian Pipeline to ease the loss of the Middle Eastern oil. WHAT? We don’t have the pipeline? Hussein blocked the Canadian Pipeline? Oh, well, the loss of Middle Eastern oil can be partially offset by the oil exploration being done on government owned lands. WHAT? No permits have been issued by Hussein for exploration and recovery of oil on government owned land?
Hussein has forced GREATER dependence on the OPEC nations since January, 2009 while at the same time borrowing and spending at astounding levels. Does anyone else see a pattern here?
BuckeyeInGa
September 12th, 2012
12:25 pm
Both attacks were blamed on Islamic extremists angered by a film hardly anyone in America had heard of, made by someone hardly anyone in America had heard of or discussed (see screen grab nearby), that purportedly insults the Muslim prophet Muhammad.
–It doesn’t make much of a difference if anyone in America had hardly heard of it. As said in the past, acts like making this film or burning Quran, like that guy in Florida wanted to do, puts American that are overseas in danger.
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
12:28 pm
As said in the past, acts like making this film or burning Quran, like that guy in Florida wanted to do, puts American that are overseas in danger.
Out of curiosity, Buckeye, if we were more vigilant to stop controversial films being made and to better prevent any Qurans from being burnt, do you really think that will make any significant impact in global terrorism??
Also, would a Bible burning in the Middle East motivate you to violence??
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
12:31 pm
“Where does America stand?”
Under THIS administration – flat-footed.
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
12:38 pm
Oh my goodness, Kyle.
What an absolutely terrible article you’ve written. On numerous levels.
First, Condi asks where do we stand??? THAT woman has the _____ to ask THAT question???!!!
We stand in the post apocalyptic landscape capped off by the “greatest foreign policy blunder in modern American history”. (hat tip the combat veteran Chuck Hagle, R – Nebr.)
5,000 Americans KIA’d needlessly, tens of thousands more wounded and maimed horrifically and trillions of dollars lied, cheated and stolen from American taxpayers to botch the invasion and occupation, every single step of the way. (Thanks, George, Dick, Karl, PNAC stooges everywhere and Condi.)
And not surprisingly, you seem to have “omitted” the depraved comments on this matter from someone who is supposedly very important to you Republicans about now.
The bottom line is that there in NO WAY IN HELL that American voters are going to put yet another bungling, deadly, incompetent neocon right back int he White House.
Thank all of the deities everywhere…
BuckeyeInGa
September 12th, 2012
12:41 pm
@Bruno, a Bible burning wouldn’t motivate me to violence, but I’m sure there are people in this country that are the opposite, heck there are people that kill doctors who perform abortions. I think being vigilant to stop the stuff I just mention won’t give the “extremest” the match needed to start their propaganda powder keg.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 12th, 2012
12:45 pm
Well said, Jam.
Auntie Christ
September 12th, 2012
12:56 pm
Where does America stand? The truth is Americans themselves don’t know where they stand. As good an example as any of this is wingfield’s poll question on this site 8/24/12, “should we intervene if syria use WMD?” On this, a conservative blog, frequented by mostly right-leaning readers(voters), the response was 82 No, 64 Yes, 13 IDK. If you polled again on a question of what action should the US take here, i.e intervene militarily somehow or not, I submit that the responses would almost parallel the 8/24/12 results. What other responses can we take? Withdraw our ambassadors? Embargo egyptian and libyan exports? (what exports?)
The only ‘response’ we are likely to see is a lot of blustering from the right about ‘weakness’ when in actuality, they have no better answer than the left. The American people are not going to stand for going to war over this, and there is dam little economically we can do. My suggestion is for all those calling for blood, who are more than likely gun owners themselves, grab your gun, join the Israeli military and have at it. If you’re not willing to do that, then don’t burden the rest of us with your accusations of ‘cowardice.’
Undecided Voter
September 12th, 2012
12:56 pm
Your key sentence: As they [protesters climbed the walls of our embassy] some member(s) of the embassy’s staff wrote repeatedly on Twitter — the social media platform that was widely used by young Egyptians during their uprising against Hosni Mubarak’s government — that the U.S. government condemned … the movie. Kyle, what would you have tweeted if you had been inside the embassy?
independent thinker
September 12th, 2012
12:58 pm
KYLE – This film was prepared by the extreme right wing crazies who here and i Israel want to incite a war against Iran and all Muslim radicals. Your boy Mitt was getting his rear end kicked by all the GOP mouthpieces this past week for his abysmal performance. Your leader told him yesterday to go “ideological”
So now that this film is rolled out to start an international flare up in US-Arab relations people like you, Fox News , El Rushbo and the usual hate mongers like Bachmann and Bolton are trumpeting the horns of hatred and xenophobia- good job . Why not just refer to Obama as President Hussein to whip up the flames some more???
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
1:03 pm
I think being vigilant to stop the stuff I just mention won’t give the “extremest” the match needed to start their propaganda powder keg.
Buckeye–I can’t claim to have a finger on the pulse of the average Middle Easterner, but I think the main driver of anti-American hatred is our continued military presence throughout the region. If you recall, Bin Laden was from Saudi Arabia, as were the folks who drove the planes into the World trade Center. Osama was enraged by the military partnership of his own government with ours, by which the Saudi royals suppress their own people. And to a degree, I can’t say that I blame bin Laden for that sentiment. How would you feel if Saudi soldiers had bases in the US, and if our government used Saudi military helicopters to gun down dissident Americans??
Centrist
September 12th, 2012
1:12 pm
We live in a very brutal world – even if not as uncivilized as in the past. Pretending otherwise has repeatedly been our folly. Enemies based on politics, economics, natural resources, religion, or any other reason do not view platitudes in any way other than weakness to be exploited. It was that way with Jimmy Carter, and now Barack Obama.
Voters knew 5 years ago that Obama thought dialogue with our vowed enemies was the correct way to conduct that part of our foreign policy. His support for the Muslim uprisings has simply backfired. But the liberal media is going to provide as much cover for this failed policy as much as they excuse his economic policy failures – because the socialistic political goals are of their overriding concern.
@@
September 12th, 2012
1:12 pm
Almost impossible to separate the wheat from the chaff over there.
I’ve lost all patience with ‘em.
It’s impossible to save people who are hell-bent on killing innocents.
God save the missionaries willing to serve in that sandpit.
They’re better Christians than I.
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
1:14 pm
Well said, Jam.
I think the verb “said” is bit too mild to describe Jam’s diatribe above, Finn. “Well vented” or “Well spitted” might be more appropriate.
fair and balanced
September 12th, 2012
1:14 pm
Lets think about this Syria Iran nonsense the right and Kyle is advocating . Our boy W and the neocons put a Shiite majority government in place in Syria that is sympathetic to Iran removing one of Iran’s main enemies. Iraq now is aiding Assam and the minority Shiite/.Alawite government trying to hold on in Syria And the Christians are on Assad’s side. So will one of you neocons who are ready to march into Syria and Iran please explain how we deal with Iraq and the Christians in Syria as a result of W’s brilliant efforts and the fact that the rebels in Syria are Suunni radicals who also are the insurgency in Iraq???? Love to hear the neocon solution . I know your boy Mitt does not have a clue.
@@
September 12th, 2012
1:21 pm
Geez!
AmVet would have us believe there were no attacks on American soil prior to the Iraq invasion.
JDW
September 12th, 2012
1:22 pm
So let me get this right, Kyle…a couple of right wing crazies gin up a movie DESIGNED to provoke this response. You are outraged at the embassy staff for their choice of tweets and at the President for condemning the violence.
So what do you think we should do…give the right wingers a medal for “sticking it to” Muslims. Maybe we should just go ahead and bomb Egypt then invade Iran. Come on Kyle, spare us the outrage at the Adminstration and tell us what you would do.
Maybe you could start by offering condolences to the families of those that lost loved ones in the line of duty rather than promptly engaging in bashing the President.
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
1:24 pm
JDW: As usual, you don’t have it right.
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
1:25 pm
“I’ve lost all patience with ‘em.”
And we are all glad that you have zero input as to what the US does in the ME. US foreign policy, especially in the ME, while taking twists and turns from administration to administration is much larger and strategic than any given President. Not saying I agree with the policies but it is what it is.
We will have a presence there regardless of who wins in November.
@@
September 12th, 2012
1:26 pm
Do we have the remains of the four Americans killed? There’s a video out that shows Arabs carrying Ambassador Stevens’ body away.
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
1:27 pm
JamVet: So, we’re back to “blame Bush”? Got it.
And, assuming you’re talking about Romney’s comments: What, exactly, did he say that qualifies as “depraved”?
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
1:27 pm
@@
Yes there were attacks on US soil before the invasion of Iraq, but unless you are living in the “Twilight Zone”, those who carried out the 9/11 atrocities and their backers were not Iraqi or Iraqi financed.
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
1:29 pm
AmVet would have us believe there were no attacks on American soil prior to the Iraq invasion.
JDW: As usual, you don’t have it right.
Since JamVet, fair and balanced, and JDW are so critical of Bush’s foreign policy decisions, maybe one of them can enlighten us as to what our best course of action in the Middle East is. Keep in mind that our primary motivation for being there in the first place is to ensure the free flow of oil upon which our economy depends. Maybe not a noble reason, but that’s the reality. We may dream of being energy independent one day, but right now we’re not.
Auntie Christ
September 12th, 2012
1:30 pm
Undecided Voter
September 12th, 2012
12:56 pm
Kyle, what would you have tweeted if you had been inside the embassy?
**************************************************
Moot point, kyle. like all the right wing keyboard warriors (and I mustn’t forget the “centrist” warrior posting at 1:12 pm) would never actually put themselves in harm’s way. Their sacrifice for the safety of our country lies in their struggles at their keyboards,valiantly facing the danger of carpal tunnel syndrome, to daily deliver the news of threats from the left to our well being and security.
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
1:30 pm
Auntie Christ: Who said anything about going to war over this? But I do think there’s a qualitative difference between blaming the killers for the killing, rather than buying their excuse about a movie.
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
1:30 pm
Undecided: Who said they were in the embassy? The last reports I saw indicated the embassy had already been evacuated.
Interested Observer
September 12th, 2012
1:31 pm
I’m frustrated with Kyle’s post on so many levels.
First, President Obama wasn’t available to me with Netanyahu because Netanyahu did not request a meeting. Of course, Obama will talk with him any time, even if they don’t happen to be in the same city on the same day. Netanyahu’s whining about not getting a meeting that he never requested is him trying to interfere with our presidential election. I’m disappointed that the press gave him the attention that he so desperately craves.
Also, of course we know where America stands when the likes of Condoleezza Rice is in charge: Ready. Fire! Aim…and throw in a little waterboarding while you’re at it. She shouldn’t be speaking at party conventions. She should be relaxing in a small cell in The Hague for her part in violating the Geneva Conventions. For the record, I’m not trying to be provocative. Simply put, she’s a war criminal.
Finally, I wonder what Kyle Wingfield and other Obama critics would have us do in response to the murders in Libya (nobody was attacked or killed in Egypt). Their government had nothing to do with it and expressed sympathy for those who were attacked. Who do we declare war on? Who do we bomb?
In Syria, what do we do? Who do we bomb? Who do we give weapons too? What will they do with the weapons if and when the regime is toppled?
Rice said, “Where does America stand? You see when the friends or foes alike don’t know the answer to that question, unambiguously and clearly, the world is likely to be a more dangerous and chaotic place.” That’s jingoism, and it’s as disgusting as it is stupid.
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
1:33 pm
fair and balanced: Oh, so now it’s Bush’s fault that Assad has been president of Syria since Clinton was in office. Man, I had no idea how devious these neocons could be!
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
1:34 pm
Bruno @ 1:29
Add in the protection of Israel and I am with you 100%. If it was all about democracy, we would be calling out our so called allies for their brutality…….. can anyone say Saudi Arabia.
When it is Iran (Not defending those tyrants) we call out their bs, and rightfully so, but when it is the Saudis, we look the other way as they treat their own just as the Iranians do theirs.
We have been there for sometime and will be there for much longer than we have been already.
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
1:35 pm
Auntie @ 1:30: Yes, it is a moot point, for the reason I explained at 1:30.
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
1:38 pm
Interested @ 1:31: “President Obama wasn’t available to me[et] with Netanyahu because Netanyahu did not request a meeting.”
No, what the White House denies is the Israeli claim that Netanyahu offered to meet in Washington as well as New York.
@@
September 12th, 2012
1:38 pm
TBs:
And we are all glad that you have zero input as to what the US does in the ME.
Me too ’cause my solution wouldn’t be well received.
Get those worth saving out and let Netanyahu level their playground.
Maybe not Iraqis but all were Muslim.
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
1:39 pm
Bruno: If you and TBS are good enough friends to attend a concert together, you’re good enough friends to communicate somewhere other than this blog.
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
1:40 pm
Yes there were attacks on US soil before the invasion of Iraq, but unless you are living in the “Twilight Zone”, those who carried out the 9/11 atrocities and their backers were not Iraqi or Iraqi financed.
TBS–The reason we went to war with Iraq was to loosen the stranglehold that Saddam had on the country and its resources. In case you forgot, the UN sanctions caused his refusal to allow nuclear reactor inspections led to an almost complete shutdown of the oil production there. A secondary reason we invaded was to make an example out of Saddam and to potentially plant the seeds of democracy in the ME.
Hillbilly D
September 12th, 2012
1:41 pm
Throughout history, adversaries will always push and prod for signs of weakness. If they perceive weakness, they’ll push and prod farther until they get what they want or they are stopped. I think it’s very important to find out how the Libyan and Egyptian governments react to this. If their re-action is swift and forceful, that’s one thing and if it isn’t it’s another.
Not all human beings think alike and we just have to accept the fact that not all the world looks at things as we do. We need to be realistic about it and act accordingly.
Just because you don’t hate your neighbor doesn’t mean he isn’t going to hate you. And if he does hate you, that’s on him, not you, just always be ready for whatever he might throw your way.
And in my opinion, the timing of this sort of negates the “it’s about a movie” reasoning. That’s more of an excuse than anything else.
JDW
September 12th, 2012
1:42 pm
@Kyle..it’s not that I don’t have it right, it’s that I don’t agree with you. I don’t see any reasonable response that the Adminstration could take in this case other than condem the mob violence and work to improve security. Both of which are underway. What else would you have them do since you so obviously feel the need to bash that response?
@@
September 12th, 2012
1:43 pm
I’ve heard two responses out of the WH. The first? Netanyahu never requested a meeting. Second? There was a scheduling conflict.
How can the WH have a scheduling conflict for a meeting that was never scheduled?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 12th, 2012
1:44 pm
It’s impossible to save people who are hell-bent on killing innocents
Like the 100,000+ Iraqi and Afghan civilians we’ve killed over the last 10 years?
You don’t wage war killing that many civilians and not expect some blow back. Let’s see Canadian (for instance) troops kill your mom, your kid, your cousins, your aunts and uncles and see if you want to sit back and smile and play nice.
SBinF
September 12th, 2012
1:46 pm
On the subject of Netanyahu….it’s rather odd that he steps up his rhetoric just as his old friend Mitt is beginning to be dumped on in the polling and media.
I’m sure that’s just a coincidence…
Interested Observer
September 12th, 2012
1:46 pm
“…the White House denied any intentional snub of Netanyahu, saying that the president was not able to meet the Israeli leader in New York because the pair would not be in the city on the same day. It also said Netanyahu did not request a meeting in Washington, ‘nor was a request for a meeting ever denied’.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/11/obama-binyamin-netanyahu-us-visit?newsfeed=true
Aren’t there more important things to cover than Netanyahu’s sensibilities about a face-to-face meeting with the President? This whole thing strikes me as petty. It’s reminiscent of when Gingrich complained about his seat on Air Force One.
Undecided Voter
September 12th, 2012
1:47 pm
Kyle — In your own words, these tweets were going on as the mob climbed the walls of the embassy. Obviously, somebody was trying to use social media to diffuse the situation. Again, in this situation, what would you have been tweeting?
Centrist
September 12th, 2012
1:48 pm
Kyle,
Can you tell us what staff meetings and parties are like for you at the AJC when you are surrounded by liberal reporters, bloggers, and editors?
The inside of your cheeks must be like ground beef from biting them after such events. My hat is off to you to be in this industry, much less working for the AJC; although there just aren’t many non-liberal media outlets that offer extremely competitive jobs.
I totally understand if you need to ignore/delete this post.
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
1:48 pm
Bruno
I know why we went to Iraq, but in my opinion democracy is secondary. It sounds good and if it works long term than it was a plus, however I think that it isn’t the main goal. Call me cynical but that is my thoughts on the issue.
I am not dissing Bush because the same holds true for Democratic Administrations as well.
If we really wanted democracy to flourish as we claim, why not push our “allies”; Suadia Arabia, Kuwait, Jordon for reform and call them out as we do our adversaries?
Again, I am aware of the foreign policy issues we face in that region, but our fork tongued policies get us in trouble at times.
@@
September 12th, 2012
1:48 pm
Finn:
They were attacking us before Iraq.
Obama’s killing innocents in Afghanistan right NOW!!!! Are you opposed?
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
1:48 pm
AmVet would have us believe…
Gawd only knows what you and your imaginary friends “believe”! But please do not share it!
Right, Kyle, vis a vis He Who Shall Not be Named. Condi Rice talking about foreign policy in the Middle East. The irony evades you, huh? The worst administration in sixty years and THEY are the ones to admonish anyone on these matters?
But alas, due to the Obama Recovery, duty calls.
As for Rooney’s idiotic comments, I can post them and the damning timeline when I get back. (As it if it will matter!)
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 12th, 2012
1:49 pm
Were our diplomats under the normal security blanket that any of our other diplomats in the middle east are under? If so, then it’s an unfortunate event. But If someone was lollygagging or didn’t do their job/show up for work/ showed up for work after a night on the hooka, then yea, we need to investigate and heads need to roll.
Most people don’t accept assignments overseas and NOT know there is a small chance they might not live to tell about it.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 12th, 2012
1:50 pm
@@ i wasn’t saying that was the ONLY thing they have to be angry with us about. I’m just giving that as an example.
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
1:52 pm
@@
1. “Get those worth saving out and let Netanyahu level their playground. ”
Israel does not need our permission. They are free to take the action they think is necessary for the protection of their country and interests.
2. ” Maybe not Iraqis but all were Muslim.”
You are pretty myopic in your thinking and knowledge base of the Muslim world if you think that statement means anything more than your ignorance on the subject. I do not pretend to have an in depth knowledge of the ME, but doesn’t take much knowledge to know that you made an asinine statement and that all Muslims are not the same. So you know, they are not even all Arab.
BuckeyeInGa
September 12th, 2012
1:53 pm
@Bruno 1:03. I don’t disagree..there doesn’t have to be just one driver IMO.
SBinF
September 12th, 2012
1:54 pm
Condolezza “Mushroom Cloud” Rice has about as much credibility talking about foreign policy as the Cookie Monster has discussing dieting and willpower.
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
1:55 pm
HD @ 1:41–I think that’s the longest post I’ve ever seen you make. Wise words, as always.
If we really wanted democracy to flourish as we claim, why not push our “allies”; Suadia Arabia, Kuwait, Jordon for reform and call them out as we do our adversaries?
TBS–As I’m sure you remember, we are in total agreement about this point. As much as we’d like to claim the high moral ground in our foreign policy, our inconsistencies are glaring to those on the receiving end of our military prowess.
@@
September 12th, 2012
1:55 pm
Finn:
Yeah…but are you opposed to Obama’s killing of innocents?
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
1:57 pm
JDW: No, you mischaracterized my argument. That’s what I meant when I said you didn’t have it right.
ragnar danneskjold
September 12th, 2012
1:58 pm
Well-written, my compliments – nothing to add.
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
2:00 pm
Undecided @ 1:47: It would have been very simple, and far more appropriate, for the tweeting staffer to point out that people in our country express their opinion without approval from our government. Likewise, it would have been far more appropriate to call on the protesters to discuss the matter civilly rather than overrunning the embassy.
Right?
@@
September 12th, 2012
2:01 pm
TBs:
Well there ARE those Purrrrrsians.
Old Timer
September 12th, 2012
2:01 pm
Go see the movie 2016 and you wil figure out why Obama is acting like he is. The man is on a mission.
Interested Observer
September 12th, 2012
2:01 pm
RE: “In March 2011, the U.S. and our allies intervened in Libya’s burgeoning civil war to prevent a massacre of civilians by forces loyal to Moammar Gadhafi in the coastal city of Banghazi.”
By the way, without intending to (I’m quite sure), Kyle gave credit here to President Obama for his handling of Gadhafi as Gadhafi was preparing to kill hundreds of thousands of his own people. This is one of the most under-reported and underestimated successes of this administration, accomplished using the “leading from behind” approach. Anyway, the behind the scenes details of this success deserves a lot more attention than it has received.
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
2:01 pm
Centrist @ 1:48: In all honestly, I’ve been treated very well by everyone at the AJC in the 3+ years I’ve been here. And not everyone else here is liberal, either.
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
2:02 pm
“And in my opinion, the timing of this sort of negates the “it’s about a movie” reasoning. That’s more of an excuse than anything else.”
Agreed. Probably more 9/11 than anything and even that is just a convenient excuse as well.
getaclue
September 12th, 2012
2:04 pm
MUSLIM APOLOGETICS: Stop saying we are Violent or we will Kill You. Our ‘Prophet of Peace’ leads us to burn your Embassies. The main reason Obama is not on top of the Middle East situation is because his upbringing makes him sympathetic to the Muslim cause. Facts aren’t racist
Don't Tread
September 12th, 2012
2:05 pm
Our personnel get killed in a foreign country by people who have complete disregard for human life, and yet we have some on these blogs who (directly and indirectly) advocate limiting our 1st Amendment rights as a “solution”.
Liberalism is really disgusting.
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
2:06 pm
getaclue
Seeing that there are 1.5B Muslims in the world, explain to us what exactly is “their” cause.
You mean the cause of the radical extremists or Muslims in their entirety?
Thanks for the insight and clarification
Centrist
September 12th, 2012
2:09 pm
Kyle posted: “not everyone else here is liberal, either.”
Good to hear. I suspect that is like not everyone hates us in Egypt, Libya, North Korea, etc.
Keep your head down.
Thomas heyward Jr
September 12th, 2012
2:10 pm
“From Benghazi to Cairo to Jerusalem to Damascus, a question: Where does America stand? ”
.
I don’t know about you other R&D Washington Party voting fools but……………..this American stands with Ron Paul.
.
“Finally we need to consider the economic cost. We don’t have the money for more military interventions overseas. We don’t have the money for our current military interventions overseas. We have to rely on the Fed’s printing presses and our ability to borrow from China to fund these wars. That alone should put an end to any discussion about getting involved in Libya’s civil war. ”
Ron Paul
Hillbilly D
September 12th, 2012
2:10 pm
Probably more 9/11 than anything and even that is just a convenient excuse as well.
Actually, I’d see that as less of an excuse and more of an extended middle finger.
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
2:10 pm
@Bruno 1:03. I don’t disagree..there doesn’t have to be just one driver IMO.
Buckeye–I view it in terms of “layers” of motivation. If we weren’t such a thorn in the side of the Middle Easterners militarily, I doubt that they would care if some yahooo in Florida threatened to burn a couple of Qurans.
@@
September 12th, 2012
2:11 pm
Maybe America’s Christians could offer seminars on how to weather attacks against one’s religious faith.
We’ve had 47+/- years of practice.
schnirt
SBinF
September 12th, 2012
2:11 pm
Kyle perhaps you’d take a lesson from your party’s nominee. Why not wait until all the facts flush out before blaming Obama? Mitt got out of the block a little early, and he kind of stepped in it….
SBinF
September 12th, 2012
2:13 pm
It just smacks of desperation is all.
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
2:16 pm
@@
You mean as the predominate religion in the US?
Are you one of those war on Christmas folks?
There will be tens of thousands of public Christmas displays, many which are of religious nature, and it is a “war” if a store changes something or someone sues. Mind you I could careless about a display of any nature and think those that sue are going too far, but a war?
hahahahahaha
Gravy Train
September 12th, 2012
2:18 pm
Kyle, you should be vary familiar with hate. It’s the driving force of the GOP these days. How dare you try to label all Muslims as “they hate us.” You sound like any other semi-literate red neck around here that passes of fear and hate as justifications for racism, bigotry or homophobia. I hope you get fired so you can go work for some obscure wing nut publication where you belong. After Romney loses big, all of you scared and sheltered nimrods of the GOP or Tea Bag Fest can look back to this post for an example of why he lost. I’m glad people like you are the minority in America. You are all aging too. Why don’t you do some real leg work and expose the plutocrats that have hijacked your party? You don’t have to be the brown nose for them anymore. No amount of money is worth your pride and self respect, if you have any left after shilling for Willard.
iggy
September 12th, 2012
2:19 pm
Obama reminds me of Ayetollah Khomeni.
fair and balanced
September 12th, 2012
2:19 pm
Bruno- Here is what our policy should be – keep our troops the hell out of the middle east unless some outside country is trying to make moves on the region. We went in in 1942 when the Germans were about to overrun the middle east and the allies kicked them all the way home. We sent troops in 1990 to aid a country that had no treaty with us after it was attacked by one of its neighbors. That ended with twenty years of our involvement in Iraq and with Iran losing its main enemy. Tell me what we gained besides some oil contracts????????And Israel is all grown up and can kick ass when it needs to on its own if we do not meddle in its affairs and tell it when to stop kicking ass . I. Also please explain why George W signed a military cooperation treaty with Gaddafi when he was a number one terrorist who killed Americans but Sadaam was target number one for the neocons?
And why did your boy Ronnie turn tail and flee from Lebanon when 150 Marines were killed by Hezbollah?? Of course Obama is the Muslim sympathizer who would never kill any Muslims in cold blood -is that right?
I would like to hear the neo-con rebuttal.
Gravy Train
September 12th, 2012
2:20 pm
I don’t think you have the guts to stand up to plutocrats, Kyle.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
September 12th, 2012
2:20 pm
I think the question is more like Where does America lie?
We haven’t stood for anything in quite some time.
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
2:21 pm
@@
What are you not able to do in regards to your religious beliefs?
Are you ok with the Code of Hamarbi at the court house, a Muslim code of some sort, etc? Or just the 10 commandments.
How about school prayer? You are allowed to have a moment of silence, right? If not, are you ok with prayers from any and every religion represented at a school.
You are for “freedom and rights” for all, correct?
So again, what religious freedoms have been taken from you and who took them? I hope you survived all those “attacks”
@@
September 12th, 2012
2:21 pm
TBs:
Are you one of those war on Christmas folks?
No. My husband is though.
If I had to choose, I’d prefer lawsuits over killings though.
You?
Hillbilly D
September 12th, 2012
2:22 pm
I had a bit of an experience with the “war on Christmas” back 3-4 years ago when that was going on.
The area I live in isn’t exactly a bastion of secular humanism but every store I went into didn’t have a single card in it that mentioned the word Christmas or anything other than Happy Holiday’s, Seasons Greetings, etc. In each and every store, I asked why they didn’t have any and the always told me that none of their suppliers offered them, so they had to sell what they could get.
I wound up going to a Christian bookstore before I found any. Since then, I always have made it a point to go back to that same store when I need cards.
There’s two sides to that story.
Auntie Christ
September 12th, 2012
2:22 pm
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
1:30 pm
Auntie Christ: Who said anything about going to war over this? But I do think there’s a qualitative difference between blaming the killers for the killing, rather than buying their excuse about a movie.
***********************************************************
Then I am at a loss to understand what is the point of this post. You spend a lot of time telling us what we already know, ie they don’t like us very much. You criticize Obama for criticizing the movie, but criticizing the media is a right wing obsession, and likewise criticizing movies.. (Anyone remember Farenheit 911, The Last Temptation of Christ). Your criticism is particularly unwarranted since Obama delivered it before the attack. Another important point conveniently omitted is that in Arab countries the religion is the government and the government is the religion, ergo an attack/insult on the religion is an insult to the government. There were actually calls for war from bolton, michelle malkin and much of the right when hugo chavez insulted bush and the US, but now we just can’t understand the same zealotry from muslims when they are insulted by this movie.
You are trying to make the point that Obama should be faulted for not meeting with Netanyahu. To accomplish what exactly? To have Netanyahu beat drums for war? What other reasons could he have for wanting to meet Obama? Yet you say “Who said anything about going to war over this?” Netanyahu is not going to send any troops to Egypt, so the only thing left to discuss is US military action. You state: “Yet, 11 years later, they storm our embassy buildings and kill our civilians, and, 11 years later, our president doesn’t betray an understanding of the cause and effect at play here.” He understands much better than the bush’s what is at play here. As someone pointed out, Americans on sacred muslim ground, ie Mohammed’s home of Saudi Arabia, and attacking muslims from there is what drove bin laden. Bush I was blind to this or failed to understand the insult to muslims this presented. Obama understands that Netanyahu taking action here, using aircraft and equipment supplied by US has “cause and effect.”
Finally, you echo Rice’s question, again faulting Obama for supposedly not answering it. The main point of my original post, which prompted your question, is no one knows where we stand because we ourselves cannot make up our mind where we stand.
iggy
September 12th, 2012
2:23 pm
A couple of fly overs and bomb droppings would give those isLambs what that want. A face to face with MooHamEd.
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
2:25 pm
@@
You want to see a “war” on a faith. Look up what some of the good Christian folks did to stop a Mosque from being built in Murfeesboro, TN.
Mind you there are some zealots out there that will sue to remove anything that is Christian based, but no “wars” and nothing has been taken from you in terms of your ability to worship.
Progressive Humanist
September 12th, 2012
2:26 pm
Looks like Kyle needs some web hits and some comments.
Maybe Romney would have a better shot at becoming president if he actually supported the country once in a while. But instead he tries to score political points on the death of an American diplomat, he hides out in France during Vietnam while he cheers on the idea of other young Americans being sent to fight and die, often against their wishes, and he makes sure he gives back as little to the country as possible by hiding his money in the Cayman Islands and Switzerland. And he earned all that money by leeching off the companies he took over and emptying the employees’ pension plans before shipping the work overseas. When Romney sees a crisis in America he sees an opportunity to advance his own interests at the cost of America’s. He’s not presidential material.
@@
September 12th, 2012
2:26 pm
TBs:
I didn’t say anything had been taken from me, just that I shouldn’t have to expend so much effort to defend it.
As far as displaying the Code of Hamarbi at the court house, are laws weren’t founded on their code, therefore, I don’t see the need.
Goldie
September 12th, 2012
2:26 pm
America does not STAND for Bush’s or Condi’s policies anymore– OK? War-mongering and nation-building (or “spreading democracy” as the Cons prefer to call it) is no longer the automatic response to the problems in the Middle East. Diplomacy and compromise are now the policies of America — but I understand your confusion Kyle, because that’s what Romney likes to call taking “an apology tour”… to hell with the whole “diplomacy” thing, I guess!
Goldie
September 12th, 2012
2:28 pm
Romney/Ryan — Taking Their Orders From Limbaugh and Unfit To Lead!
iggy
September 12th, 2012
2:28 pm
“Diplomacy and compromise are now the policies of America”
You mean buttkissing and fear are now the policies of Obamerica.
BW
September 12th, 2012
2:28 pm
Kyle
What does the question actually mean? Should we have a military response for everything? This is the only conclusion I’m drawing from even asking this question but feel free to dispute that notion.
Just Saying..
September 12th, 2012
2:29 pm
Other than our continuing dependence on middle east oil, our only interest in the region seems to be playing backstop to Israel’s defense needs.
@@
September 12th, 2012
2:29 pm
TBs:
As far as the mosque in Murpheesboro, I didn’t follow that story. If, in fact, their mosque was destroyed for religious reasons, I would condemn such an act. I certainly wouldn’t kill ‘em because of it.
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
2:30 pm
HillBilly
But that is a choice the store made and a choice you made not to do commerce with them any longer.
I have no issue with what they are doing nor what you did.
How that is a “war” is beyond me.
That is done all the time in commerce over and above anything that is Christian / Christmas related. Stores are looking to maximize profits with the least headaches. They make choices and the consumers do like wise, but it isn’t a “war” until Christmas time.
We will just have to agree to disagree on this issue.
Gravy Train
September 12th, 2012
2:30 pm
To be crystal clear: They don’t hate “us” they hate idiots like you who try to speak for the rest of us. People like you who promote morons like Bush and Romney. People like you who value money over morals and civic duty. People like you who think it’s fine to dictate terms of existence to foreign nations because they have something you can steal and turn a profit on. Keep your “us” to yourself next time.
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
2:32 pm
@@
To me it was worse than being destroyed. The city and county kept changing regs and rules on the fly to keep them from building. That is over and above the nastiness that came from a percentage of the local population.
I was glad that they fought and fought until they are in that building and are worshiping there now.
If you ever get the time, look it up. It is not a good testimony of may of the elected officials and citizens of that area
Goldie
September 12th, 2012
2:33 pm
“Go see the movie 2016 ”
OMG, the Cons here still love to believe that conspiracy crap year after year — whatever keeps you feeling scared of That Man In the White House With His Gangster Buddies… LOL!
iggy
September 12th, 2012
2:34 pm
Instead of retailiating we should go on the offensive with a little indiscriminant carpet bombing.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
September 12th, 2012
2:34 pm
So much for obozo’s foreign policy “successes.”
Even Government Motors is better off than the ME.
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
2:36 pm
@@
Outside of getting into discussion and even arguments with people, which by the way is your choice, what have you had to defend in terms of your right and ability to worship?
Walk away from those folks. They can’t legally stop you from believing what you believe, worshiping at your home and church, teaching your kids what you believe, etc.
They can try but have no more right to impose what they believe than a Christian, Muslim or whomever doing the same thing.
@@
September 12th, 2012
2:36 pm
TBs:
The city and county kept changing regs and rules on the fly to keep them from building.
That same thing is going on in my county right now. The congregation had to let the property go as a result.
That’s in Clayton County, GA…a Democratic stronghold.
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
2:37 pm
vary familiar with hate……semi-literate red neck ….racism, bigotry or homophobia….I hope you get fired….some obscure wing nut publication …..loses big……scared and sheltered nimrods ……Tea Bag Fest …..all aging too….the brown nose ……
Too bad we all can’t live up to the loving example set by Gravy Train above.
H.E. Pennypacker
September 12th, 2012
2:38 pm
I just want to state that I don’t think your column is very good. I don’t have any ideas on how it could be better and I certainly could not write anything better, but I want to be on the record.
……My shorter version of a Kyle like retort.
Gravy Train
September 12th, 2012
2:39 pm
Go get a job Bruno. Maybe read a non-fiction book sometime. That is assuming you can tell the difference.
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
2:40 pm
@@
The D or R in itself doesn’t mean anything to me to the extent that both can be tyrants at times.
Sorry to hear about the situation with your church. Hopefully they have found a place that is more welcoming and accepting.
InAtl
September 12th, 2012
2:40 pm
Gravy Train, ever heard of projection? You accuse the GOP of hate, then you proceed to show us what hate really is as you use words and phrases like: semi-literate red neck, racism, bigotry, homophobia, obscure wing nut, tea bag fest, plutocrats, brown nose, shilling for Willard. And that’s all in ONE post. Just for your edification, here’s the definition of projection: Psychology.
The attribution of one’s own attitudes, feelings, or suppositions to others: The attribution of one’s own attitudes, feelings, or desires to someone or something as a naive or unconscious defense against anxiety or guilt.
Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/projection#ixzz26HYoSosK
@@
September 12th, 2012
2:41 pm
TBs:
It’s the incrementalism that concerns me. The creep into MY rights.
It’s happened in other countries. No reason to believe it can’t happen here.
@@
September 12th, 2012
2:41 pm
TBs:
It’s not my church.
InAtl
September 12th, 2012
2:43 pm
Kyle, just like yesterday, my posts aren’t showing up. I don’t want duplicates, but here was my post a minute ago:
Gravy Train, ever heard of projection? You accuse the GOP of hate, then you proceed to show us what hate really is as you use words and phrases like: semi-literate red neck, racism, bigotry, homophobia, obscure wing nut, tea bag fest, plutocrats, brown nose, shilling for Willard. And that’s all in ONE post. Just for your edification, here’s the definition of projection: Psychology.
The attribution of one’s own attitudes, feelings, or suppositions to others: The attribution of one’s own attitudes, feelings, or desires to someone or something as a naive or unconscious defense against anxiety or guilt.
Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/projection#ixzz26HYoSosK
fair and balanced
September 12th, 2012
2:43 pm
Hey Obozo haters:
Please tell me one successful war or covert operation that other presidents conducted where not one single American was killed or injured?????
And tell me how W’s policy of bringing democracy to the middle east is going with the pro Iranian Shiites in control in Iraq, Hamas in Gaza, , Hezbollah in Lebanon, Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and fundamentalists in Turkey all as a result of American inspired free elections??
Or did the left wing commies in this country rig those elections?
iggy
September 12th, 2012
2:44 pm
“No reason to believe it can’t happen here.”
Its already happening here. Thats why such a DC gridlock. Compromise with the leftwing socialist party is no longer an option and off the table.
At some point one must make a stand.
Centrist
September 12th, 2012
2:44 pm
@ Hillbilly D – Try some other stores or the internet if you want Christmas cards that have the word “Christmas” in them. My wife gets and sends them, we receive hundreds and they are not all coming from Christian stores. I am a secular humanist who celebrates the holiday period as a social event, put up a tree and lights, exchange gifts and have no problem with anyone who wants to display the Creche scene, etc. Governments or schools acknowledging the most popular holiday in the USA is not a problem for me, as long as they don’t endorse it. Actually, being a non-believer, I prefer the true believers over the greedy commercialists who start decorating and marketing in October and November.
iggy
September 12th, 2012
2:45 pm
“Please tell me one successful war or covert operation that other presidents conducted where not one single American was killed or injured?????”
Laughable at best.
Hillbilly D
September 12th, 2012
2:45 pm
I think some folks are missing one important point here. That group of folks who do hate us, don’t really care if Bush was President, or that Obama is now or that Romney might be. The people who did these things in Libya and Egypt just flat out hate us and they couldn’t care less who our President is. They’ll hate us if Romney is elected and they’ll hate us if Obama is re-elected. Our election won’t make one bit of difference to them.
iggy
September 12th, 2012
2:46 pm
In Iran, I believe the have “free” elections, however, the Presidential power ie ajahpeterhead, is controlled by the mulluhs. Its a farce.
Gravy Train
September 12th, 2012
2:49 pm
I am not projecting anything other than fact. Spreading hate and lies only encourages psychopaths to act on it. Fact: Georgia, despite modern times, is filled with a (thankfully) dying breed of red necks, racists, bigots and homophobic brainless wonders. I guess you don’t get outside of Atlanta too often. Their xenophobia gave us this wonderful new policy at the DMV. If the truth hurts, then I suggest you make some changes to what kind of image your party is projecting.
iggy
September 12th, 2012
2:53 pm
“Spreading hate and lies only encourages psychopaths to act on it.”
Then stop spreading the hate and lies. Also learn to distinguish fact from “hate, lies” etc. Also “hate” is so 90’s. Could you knuckle draggers please give us some new buzz words.
Scooter
September 12th, 2012
2:54 pm
We support free speech but condemn it if it might harm someone’s sensibilities. So we don’t really support free speech, or do we?
iggy
September 12th, 2012
2:57 pm
“So we don’t really support free speech, or do we?”
As long as it isnt “hate speech” or a “hate crime”…whatever that is or supposed to be. Although, I think its a form of Jesse/Al mind control.
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
3:01 pm
Gravy Train @ 2:18: “How dare you try to label all Muslims as ‘they hate us.’ ”
You mean when I wrote, “Now, ‘they’ does not mean ‘all Muslims’ or ‘all Arabs’ or any such thing”?
And then you call me semi-literate??
old timer
September 12th, 2012
3:01 pm
Good article Kyle….
Archibald Leach
September 12th, 2012
3:03 pm
Kyle, i’m guessing you agree with the reactionary, idiotic statements from Romney and Sarah Palin released about this. I’m not surprised at you republicans first reaction to the killing of 4 Americans. Immediately blame Obama and lie about him sympathizing with muslim extremists.
Tom(Independent Viet Vet,USAF)
September 12th, 2012
3:04 pm
This is not about some stupid movie, it will be discovered that this was a pre-planned attack to discredit Americans on 9-11 day. Furthermore, I just saw on news that the 4 Americans were taken to a safe house. Next the Libyan authorities revealed location of safe house to mob. The 4 Americans were murdered there and were then dragged through the streets in a sign of disrepect. I do not think ALL news stations will report this, as it may look bad for Obama’s apologetic administration?
Gravy Train
September 12th, 2012
3:05 pm
No Kyle, I know that you are educated and literate. I was talking about the majority of your base audience.
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
3:06 pm
Gravy Train @ 2:30: That’s where you’re dead wrong. As much as you’d like to believe the contrary, there’s no difference between you and me in their eyes. Or do you think Ambassador Stevens was a Bush/Romney supporter?
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
3:07 pm
InAtl @ 2:43: As far as I can tell, that comment did post earlier.
cc
September 12th, 2012
3:08 pm
Kyle Wingfield @ 2:01 pm:
Maybe the AJC would not have been forced to limit their distribution if it had adopted a conservative stance. In a situation where the majority of their readers were decidedly conservative, the AJC pursued a policy of writing for the minority of liberals. It just makes no sense to me . . .
joe
September 12th, 2012
3:08 pm
I can tell you where America stands on them, but I cannot tell you where our marxist-in-chief stands. He’s such an embarrassment to our country that those who support him should be ashamed.
Ivan
September 12th, 2012
3:08 pm
” ..there’s no difference between you and me in their eyes”
You mean they don’t ask if you’re a Democrat or Republican before deciding to kill you?? 0.o
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
3:11 pm
Archibald @ 3:03: At what point did I “blame Obama” or say he “sympathiz[es] with Muslim extremists”?
What I did point out is that he, like a lot of the commenters here, has failed to identify what’s happening here. Namely, that terrorists who hate America want to kill Americans, regardless of any obscure, D-grade movie about Islam that someone, somewhere makes.
Gravy Train
September 12th, 2012
3:15 pm
Bush left enough crap to fuel the Islamic extremist faction’s hate machine for the rest of our lifetimes. It’s terrible that four more Americans had to die because of it. If there were no oil there, would we be there? If a group of people shows up at your house tomorrow and demands that you leave because they lived there before your house was built, would you not be angry and want to fight? If a foreign nation set up a puppet government in our country for the sole purpose of raiding our natural resources, would you be angry then? What if that puppet government kept our capital tied up in ways to arm itself against us? Angry yet? The extremists use the anger as a recruitment tool.
cc
September 12th, 2012
3:17 pm
The muslims needed no reason to attack and kill. They were simply celebrating their victory of 9/11/01. The actions yesterday did not “coincidentally” occur on 9/11 . . .
@@
September 12th, 2012
3:17 pm
Hillbilly:
The people who did these things in Libya and Egypt just flat out hate us and they couldn’t care less who our President is.
ABSOLUTELY!!!!
@@
September 12th, 2012
3:20 pm
One thing’s for sure. Killing OBL didn’t accomplish much.
Another martyr to be celebrated.
InAtl
September 12th, 2012
3:24 pm
Thanks, Kyle. I had gotten a message “server error” and then couldn’t find my post anywhere. Then it showed up.
What I don’t understand, and maybe I missed it, was why our embassies in the Middle East didn’t have extra marines guarding them on 9-11. They should do that every year around that date, in my opinion. This probably won’t be the last time something like this happens. I don’t blame the current president for that kind of security decision, but I do blame him for being an appeaser to the extremist factions over there. I seriously doubt that his “condemning in the strongest terms” really has them shaking in their shoes. I fervently believe that Romney, much like Reagan, will get a different mindset from them in that regard.
@@
September 12th, 2012
3:25 pm
DANG! That cheesy little film is everywhere now. I was just at “The Atlantic” where it’s on full display. Can’t activate it though.
Not to worry. I wasn’t going to kill someone had I been able to.
It’s gone from obscure to renowned.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 12th, 2012
3:27 pm
that terrorists who hate America want to kill Americans,
So what. You can’t please all the people all of the time.
Tom(Independent Viet Vet,USAF)
September 12th, 2012
3:28 pm
I’m hearing now that the 4 Americans were the Ambassordor, a civilian aide and 2 Marines! That sucks, it had nothing to do with some stupid movie. It was a planned attack on Americans on 9-11 day. They want to kill and disgrace us. Nothing but animals, I say what mercs used to say “Kill them all and let God sort them out”.
BW
September 12th, 2012
3:28 pm
Kyle
Terrorists want to harm America…acceptable conclusion. The question is do we go militarily after all these groups which according to some include countries? A second question is do the American people have the stomach for the fiscal impact of such a policy? Perhaps this is why Romney wants to double defense spending while lowering tax rates and entitlement and discretionary spending. Of course he’ll never come out and just say so.
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
3:29 pm
Tell me what we gained besides some oil contracts????????
fair and balanced–Not sure about you, but my car burns gasoline to get around. Without petroleum, our whole economy collapses. Exactly what is your car burning??
For whatever reason, a lot of Libs seem to display an elitist attitude about the necessity of an abundant fuel supply. A few days without gas, and we’re all sunk.
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
3:30 pm
BW @ 2:28: For starters, I’d like to think the knee-jerk reaction of our embassy staff overseas — the ones who are supposed to be explaining and promoting our values — would be a defense of freedom of speech rather than a condemnation of the speaker.
I’d like to think that, if we’re going to spend billions of dollars a year on foreign aid to these countries, that the people in those countries would have a little bit better understanding of our system of government than to think the proper response to one person’s comments/beliefs in this country is not to take over our embassy or to kill our ambassador. Which, in turn, means I’d like to think the few terrorists would stop receiving the support of the many people who blindly follow them. And I’d like to think it means we’d have the good sense to cut off or reduce foreign aid to those countries where our message apparently is not being received.
I’d like to think that, when we intervene in a country’s civil war to prevent a massacre of civilians, it would have the effect of either ingratiating us with the people of that country or making dictators in other countries (read: Assad in Syria) think twice before commencing to massacre their own civilians.
I think there are reasons these things are not happening. I think there’s a certain inconsistency on our part, one that didn’t necessarily begin with Obama but has not gotten better the past 3.5 years, and a belief on the part of others that we don’t mean what we say. How many times, for instance, has Obama said Assad must stop killing civilians, or “must go”? I’m not necessarily saying we should intervene militarily in Syria, but these kinds of empty threats do not improve our credibility in that region. And we have seen repeatedly that al-Qaida, in particular, seizes on what it perceives to be our weakness. Announcing our plans for withdrawing from Afghanistan waaaaay in advance comes to mind, too.
All these things relate to where “we stand” — what are our principles, what actions are we not willing to tolerate, why should our word be considered credible, etc.
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
3:32 pm
Go get a job Bruno. Maybe read a non-fiction book sometime. That is assuming you can tell the difference.
Let’s see, I’m already a doctor, and I read quantum physics books and advanced math texts for fun. How about you, hater??
@@
September 12th, 2012
3:33 pm
Al Qaeda chief Ayman al-Zawahri had recently released a video calling on militants to attack Americans in revenge for the killing of an operative in Pakistan. The message said his “blood is calling on you, inciting you to fight and kill the crusaders.”
I always thought al-Zawahiri was more dangerous than OBL. He’s the mastermind, OBL was just a figurehead on a very tall body.
Why haven’t we caught al-Zawahiri?
Hillbilly D
September 12th, 2012
3:34 pm
Bruno @ 3:29
I felt sure you were driving an electric car.
fair and balanced
September 12th, 2012
3:39 pm
Bruno – I take Marta; try it some time. No coincidence that both Afghanistan and Iraq have locations where oil companies want American controlled pipelines for oil and gas. One in Iraq that was closed goes from Kirkuk to Jordan to Haifa. Want to bet its being reopened now that Cheney did the evil deed?
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
3:40 pm
That group of folks who do hate us, don’t really care if Bush was President, or that Obama is now or that Romney might be. The people who did these things in Libya and Egypt just flat out hate us and they couldn’t care less who our President is.
For whatever reason, HD, the Libs have convinced themselves that all we need to do is talk nice, and the whole Muslim terrorism problem would disappear overnight.
The bottom line is that economics lies at the heart of virtually every armed conflict in human history. We need oil, and must do whatever is necessary to keep the oil flowing.
independent thinker
September 12th, 2012
3:42 pm
@@ – yeah lets blame Obama for not catching him – must be a distant relative of Obama.
You ar right about him being a mastermind. He and the blind sheikh masterminded the ‘93 WTC bombing ; probably will show up as Egyptian foreign minister.
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
3:42 pm
@@
what creep exactly?
John Birch
September 12th, 2012
3:43 pm
Those that prefer Democratic foreign policy have a very infantile understanding of the world we live in. Simply stated almost all of the rest of the world views us with some combi nation of fear, hatred, and envy. Singing Kumbaya to Islamic militants isn’t likely to deter them from their convert or die beliefs. But here’s what the Dems have done.
Carter – boycott the Olympics and screw up the rescue mission
Clinton – shot off a few cruise missiles
Obama – send 50,000 troops into Afghanistan to die for nothing after campaiging on sending 5,000, ignore Iran threat, weak support for Israel, and condemn the movie
Why do the liberals hate America?
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
3:43 pm
I felt sure you were driving an electric car.
Nope, but only have a 1 mile commute to work every day, so a tank of gas lasts me a while now. I have to brag about my tires, also. I have nearly 100,000 on the original set, with plenty of tread left.
take Marta; try it some time.
When I lived in Atlanta, I used MARTA on occasion. Most of the time, it was far more convenient to drive, however.
@@
September 12th, 2012
3:45 pm
O.K…..so who’s buying it?
The brother of al Qaeda leader Ayman al Zawahiri is proposing to mediate a peace deal between the West and Islamists.
In an exclusive interview with CNN, Mohamed al Zawahiri unveiled his proposal for the first time, saying he is in a unique position to help end the violence and that both sides need to make concessions.
Obviously CNN.
http://articles.cnn.com/2012-09-10/middleeast/world_meast_zawahiri-peace-plan_1_zawahiri-islamists-al-qaeda-leader
Osama bin Laden had a similar proposal in 2004, it was quickly followed a year later by the deadly 7/7 subway attack in London killing 52 people.
Burn us one, shame on you. Burn us twice, shame on us.
@@
September 12th, 2012
3:46 pm
Oops!
That should be burn us once, not BURN US ONE.
Hillbilly D
September 12th, 2012
3:47 pm
Foreign oil goes for a whole lot more than gasoline for automobiles. Plastics for instance, which are in virtually every kind of consumer product that there is are made from petroleum. All those plastic water bottles that get thrown away are a reason for our dependence on foreign oil, too.
BW
September 12th, 2012
3:48 pm
Kyle
I was typing as you were responding. I agree that blustery rhetoric without action is idiotic no matter what who occupies the Oval Office. There is a 24 hour news cycle that didn’t exist only a few years ago. Do you think Reagan wouldn’t have been eviscerated in today’s media for his decision in Lebanon after the barracks bombing? I think many people simply fail to understand how reactionary a politican must be in this environment. I agree that the people responsible in these countries are using an “insult” as a thinly veiled excuse to attack. But I disagree that people in countries that we liberate should be “thankful” when we simply establish ourselves as the master of their fates without a realistic exit strategy and return of power to the liberated people. Interventions are so tricky because every country is different but judging by the words in this blog nuance is not something that is easy to sell or even understand. Which is why we should only go into these countries with a strategy and a declaration of war by Congress. There is that constitutional thing that we’ve gotten away from and it allows the opposing party to take potshots without making them vote on it. I believe that if Al Gore was in office on 9-11 and he asked for a declaration of war on that day 11 years ago Congress make this a partisan issue in the manner that all military intervention is today. And for the record short of staying in Afghanistan for eternity there’s no way to win that war without simultaneously conquering Iran and Pakistan. McCain would have only not announced a withdrawal date but would be no closer to “winning” in Afghanistan.
BW
September 12th, 2012
3:50 pm
that should read Congress would not make it a partisan issue
@@
September 12th, 2012
3:55 pm
TBs:
What creep?
This is one of those exchanges that could go on forever. I’m not that into those.
Mandating the Catholic Church pay for contraceptives?
Using taxpayers’ dollars to participate in Planned Parenthood?
By the by, have you heard about the movie “Yellow”? It’s about incestual “love”. The director said “as long as they’ve reached the age of consent and aren’t hurting anyone, what’s the big deal?”
Kinda creepy if ‘ya ask me.
schnirt
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
3:56 pm
Go see the movie 2016 and you wil figure out why Obama is acting like he is. The man is on a mission.
Speaking of “2016″, I was surprised to see how well it was doing commercially. The reviews seem to be divided strictly along party lines, although most of the reviewers stated that the filmmaker is a little more reasoned and objective than Michael Moore, who cuts and splices conversations to make people appear to be saying something that they’re not.
PB and I may go see it, but we’ll wait until it comes to the $1 theater. I’m too cheap to pay for first-run movies.
@@
September 12th, 2012
3:56 pm
Oh…and the incestual “love” is between brother and sister…not some distant relative, 10 times removed.
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
3:59 pm
@@
I misunderstood your post and thought you had fought some personal battles against losing your religious rights and freedoms. Sorry if I assumed that incorrectly.
As for the Catholic Church, don’t some of the organizations offer contraceptives already? Maybe to the faculty at Georgetown via their insurance.
Thanks for the exchange
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
4:00 pm
@@
Not sure what that movie as anything to do with your religious freedom, but of course you are more than welcome to add it in for impact and drama.
@@
September 12th, 2012
4:03 pm
Shuah, TBs…anytime.
Just don’t draw it out into an all-day exchange. I don’t really like people THAT much.
Hillbilly and I would probably get along great considering…
(IW&SH) Hillbilly.
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
4:07 pm
Maybe America’s Christians could offer seminars on how to weather attacks against one’s religious faith.
We’ve had 47+/- years of practice.
Any fair look at history will show that Christians have dished out much more persecution than they have received through the years. Richard Feynman, for example, was prohibited from joining any non-Jewish fraternities at MIT and was almost barred from acceptance to Princeton in the 1930s due to being Jewish. To his credit, he never whined about the discrimination he faced in college and early in his career.
MarkV
September 12th, 2012
4:15 pm
This morning, when the news about the outrageous events in Libya became a subject of discussion on this blog, I wrote “Some people are so anxious to use tragic news for their political purposes …” That is even more pertinent now, in face of Kyle’s shameful, dishonorable article.
Kyle is not so naïve not to know that in countries like Libya and Egypt there are some militants, who hate the US. So when he writes that those people “showed their gratitude by killing four Americans, including our ambassador to Libya,” it can only be called a demagoguery and deliberate stupidity.
Then Kyle attacks someone on the embassy’s staff who tried to defuse the dangerous situation by putting on Twitter that the movie, that was ostensibly the impetus of the attack, was condemned the US government. And he makes the accusation that this call, made in desperation of a dangerous situation, reflects the State Department’s beliefs. Well, Kyle, you office hero, I would like to see YOU in that embassy, facing the danger. It is so easy for these scribes to play courage when they do not deal with physical danger.
Finally, Kyle calls the President’s statement an expression of “moral equivalence.” Either Kyle knows what moral equivalence means and he deliberately misuses the term in an insulting way, or he is a very bad journalist indeed.
Michael H. Smith
September 12th, 2012
4:16 pm
Now it is time to speak directly about 9/11, this event, and other incidents included concerning these political “pseudo religious” extremist and where we stand or more appropriately where we kneel Kyle.
Until we take away their one weapon we shall never be able to stand upright so please Kyle don’t fool yourself by high-tone rhetoric you hear in tough talk, even if it does come from Dr. Rice. For if we had her talking off the record to us in person and we asked her what would it mean if the United States declared that we as a nation would use all of our own natural resources oil, natural gas, wind, solar, bio, coal, nuclear etc. to achieve energy independence what would it do for world peace, stability and diplomacy, I believe she would tell us it would forever change the world as we’ve known it.
If it were not for these countries possessing oil and our refusal to use our own energy resources, which are more than sufficient to power our needs and then some, we would not be having this discussion or any like it, Kyle.
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
4:17 pm
BW @ 3:48: “But I disagree that people in countries that we liberate should be “thankful” when we simply establish ourselves as the master of their fates without a realistic exit strategy and return of power to the liberated people.”
But isn’t that what we did in Libya? We don’t have troops on the ground there, and never did.
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
4:20 pm
Then Kyle attacks someone on the embassy’s staff who tried to defuse the dangerous situation by putting on Twitter that the movie, that was ostensibly the impetus of the attack, was condemned the US government.
MarkV–I have to back Kyle on this one. Free speech includes speech which is offensive to some. The right course of action isn’t to give credibility to those who would stifle free speech through violence.
Beyond the Middle of the Road
September 12th, 2012
4:21 pm
Christians killed six and a half million people in concentration camps — primarily Jews but also gypsies, homosexuals, the handicapped, and intellectuals who opposed the Third Reich especially Poles. Throw in another three million or more Soviet POW’s who died mainly of neglect and starvation. Many more Jews died in the Warsaw Ghetto which technically wasn’t a concentration camp. Now that obviously doesn’t mean that ALL Christians are to be condemned for the actions of the minority. Does that sound familiar?
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
4:21 pm
MHS @ 4:16: I am all for developing our energy resources, for the reason you state. But the fact is, we aren’t there yet.
Michael H. Smith
September 12th, 2012
4:22 pm
establish ourselves as the master of their fates
Why brucie, I never knew you were such a colonialist at heart.
Just Proud To Be Here
September 12th, 2012
4:23 pm
Did Gravy really try to blame extremist Muslim hatred on Conservatives? Their biggest problem with the ‘Great Satan’ is our immoral culture which is largely a product of the Liberal worldview promoting and funding abortions and homosexual marriage and finding pornography in the First Amendment somewhere. If the extremists don’t like us because Bush didn’t go on an apology tour and appease them, then it’s their problem and they are in the wrong. Sheesh…
Just Proud To Be Here
September 12th, 2012
4:26 pm
Christians didn’t kill 6 million people. It was a despot leader who was operating on a Secular, Atheistic worldview just like Pol Pot and Mao.
9th Grade History fail for you…
MarkV
September 12th, 2012
4:27 pm
Bruno @4:20 pm. “Free speech includes speech which is offensive to some. The right course of action isn’t to give credibility to those who would stifle free speech through violence.”
Bruno, where in my post have you seen anything opposing the above?
cc
September 12th, 2012
4:29 pm
MarkV @ 4:15 pm:
Bookman misses you . . .
Beyond the Middle of the Road
September 12th, 2012
4:29 pm
From Wiki: “The German census of May 1939 indicates that 54 percent of Germans considered themselves Protestant and 40 percent considered themselves Catholic, with only 3.5 percent claiming to be neo-pagan “believers in God,” and 1.5 percent unbelievers. This census came more than six years into the Nazi era.” Nazi Germany was a far more Christian country than the United States is today. In fact, “According to a 2007 survey, 78.4% of adults identified themselves as Christian.”
BW
September 12th, 2012
4:30 pm
Kyle
Hence the issue that intervention is a complex issue. This will continue to be a by-product regardless of whether boots are on the ground. I’m simply disagree that every attack must be followed with military action or bluster. Also as Romney is currently discovering there’s only so far that the politics go in the matter of national security. The simple fact is that this election has been decided by those that matter…the pollsters just won’t call in the electoral college…Romney better do something better than he’s been doing in the last 24 hours. Is this election just about the economy or does comportent also matter?
InAtl
September 12th, 2012
4:30 pm
MarkV, your quote. You slammed Kyle and defended the apologists.
@@
September 12th, 2012
4:31 pm
Bruno:
1930s?
Take it up with the elite academics. We’ve moved on since then.
My little Methodist church enjoys Seder during Jewish Passover every year. One year it’s at their place, the next, it’s at ours.
We’re cousins, don’tcha know.
MarkV
September 12th, 2012
4:31 pm
cc @ 4:29 pm
Nobody will ever miss you.
Michael H. Smith
September 12th, 2012
4:31 pm
But the fact is, we aren’t there yet.
And that Kyle is the insidious unforgivable shame of it all that we bear to this day. This idea or this “very achievable goal” began with Richard Nixon, carried on with Carter, soon forgotten by Reagan and so on down the line of political posturing over power, on how we should go about it or if even we should go about it all.
It’s time to get this thing done not only for our own selfish good but for the very existence of all humanity. Further delay only waste more time and more lives.
Just Proud To Be Here
September 12th, 2012
4:33 pm
Hitler was the one that was responsible for those atrocities and he initiated them. The average German didn’t get a say. Hitler did mention Christianity many times in his writingsthough. He paid Christianity a lot of lip service in Mein Kampf, and he claimed to be a Christian. But Hitler’s secretary, Martin Bormann, also declared that “National Socialism [Nazism] and Christianity are irreconcilable” and Hitler didn’t squawk too much about it. Similarly, Hermann Rauschning, a Hitler associate, said, “One is either a Christian or a German. You can’t be both.” In addition, Hitler declared Nazism the state religion and the Bible was replaced by Mein Kampf in the schools. When you show me where the German people and not Hitler’s military and goons executed those people, your specious argument is just that…and less.
Jeffrey
September 12th, 2012
4:33 pm
Kyle, good points and good column, but you fail to mention how bad this situation would be if Romney was president and based on his reaction today it would be astronomically worse. Romney in his zeal to constantly discredit the president makes himself look like chicken little on drugs.
kelly
September 12th, 2012
4:34 pm
American middle east foreign policy is to undo the damage done over the last 30 years. Propping up dictators is not a policy that can endure. Oppressed peoples will always push back. The sooner we recognize that, the better.
MarkV
September 12th, 2012
4:35 pm
InAtl @ 4:30 pm
Another “hero” sitting on his butt and courageously making stupid comments.
independent thinker
September 12th, 2012
4:37 pm
Obama is sending in the drones and a rapid response Marine team- can Seal Team 6 be far behind?
Oh I forgot the cons claim he is a pro muslim wuz who would never allow Americans to kill Muslims.
Gimme Gimme Gimme
September 12th, 2012
4:37 pm
“Kyle, good points and good column, but you fail to mention how bad this situation would be if Romney was president and based on his reaction today it would be astronomically worse. Romney in his zeal to constantly discredit the president makes himself look like chicken little on drugs.”
Astronomically worse? 4 people got killed including the Ambassador. Hard to see how someone could F-up worse than that.
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
4:37 pm
MHS
That sounds great on paper and I am not saying that the US government and business can’t do more.
With that said, what happened to oil and natural gas exploration in the US during periods of the 80s and 90s when the price bottomed out?
Can’t have it both ways.
Outside of nationalizing the oil industry, how do you prevent them from slowing down production and exploration during periods of falling prices? They have already shown that is exactly what they will do. For that matter, not just big oil, but med size companies here in the US as well.
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
4:38 pm
If you have two religions in your land, the two will cut each other’s throats;
but if you have thirty religions, they dwell in peace. –Voltaire
Beyond the Middle of the Road
September 12th, 2012
4:40 pm
“I was only following orders.” has stood the test of time of being no excuse whatsoever. But the point I was trying to make is that the actions of a sinister vile few should not be extrapolated onto the vast majority.
Just Proud To Be Here
September 12th, 2012
4:41 pm
How can anyone lecture Romney on style or comportment after Obama has made such an ass of himself on foreign policy. Achmedinanutjob, who openly advocates genocide, brazenly endeavors to commit terrorist attacks on American soil, brutalizes his own people, sponsors terrorism around the world and is on the verge of acquiring a nuclear weapon, is about to speak at the UN and the best our country will do is walk out. Pathetic.
Don't think so
September 12th, 2012
4:42 pm
America being in the Middle East is a lose-lose proposition. You can’t say you believe in democracy unless you support people picking their own leaders, and when they pick their own leaders, those leaders will almost always be hostile to America. I say get out of all Middle East countries (with a few exceptions) and protect our borders.
Jeffrey
September 12th, 2012
4:43 pm
If Romney gets confused over mixed signals from the whitehouse when they are pretty damn clear then he is not fit for office. C’mon now.
InAtl
September 12th, 2012
4:43 pm
MarkV, your comment toward me is incoherent. What are you talking about? And I’m a woman.
Linda
September 12th, 2012
4:43 pm
Just Proud@433, What a coincidence! Obama also claimed to be a Christian!
Just Proud To Be Here
September 12th, 2012
4:45 pm
Middle…I agree with your premise. As a Christian, I condemn those actions by those claiming to be Christians who are acting contrary to Christ’s teachings such as those who murder abortion doctors clearly do not represent for the majority of Christians.
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
4:45 pm
@@@
September 12th, 2012
4:31 pm
My little Methodist church enjoys Seder during Jewish Passover every year. One year it’s at their place, the next, it’s at ours.
We’re cousins, don’tcha know.
***********************************************************************************
Christians are like frogs holding a symposium round a swamp,
debating which of them is most sinful.–
Of all bad men religious bad men are the worst.
Just Proud To Be Here
September 12th, 2012
4:46 pm
Claims is the key word
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
4:46 pm
Bruno, where in my post have you seen anything opposing the above?
See InAtl @ 4:30. Kyle laid out the right course of action in his 2:00.
http://blogs.ajc.com/kyle-wingfield/2012/09/12/from-benghazi-to-cairo-to-jerusalem-to-damascus-a-question-where-does-america-stand/?cp=2#comment-150160
Michael H. Smith
September 12th, 2012
4:48 pm
It is time to get it off paper and that will take all of us telling government, business, and who ever else that is standing in the way of truly using “all of the above” to achieve(with no lip service) energy independence to either get on board or get out of the way. I’ve had it with all the BS and I know the American people have had it up to their eyeballs with all of the BS.
Jeffrey
September 12th, 2012
4:48 pm
Wwcd. What would Cheney do?
the red herring
September 12th, 2012
4:48 pm
great column kyle. the movie was an excuse to bring us harm on 9/11. the democratic convention where they tried to portray obama as osama’s slayer so very many times probably had a lot to do with this. obama had to be convinced to let the seals go after osama and now claims it was his achievement. had we not used bush’s interrogation tactics we wouldn’t have gotten bin laden at all. Now Obama who didn’t want to spike the ball (his own terms) is spiking every chance he gets and then it should come as no surprise to all his supporters when that enrages the other side (radical islamists). we need new leadership in this country first and foremost economically as we are bankrupt under this president (i’ll cut the deficit in half in my first term then adds 6 trillion in debt) then secondly from a foreign policy standpoint—it scares me to death to think what he means when he tells russia “wait till after the next election and i’ll have more flexibility”. that is bad news for america (whether you are black, brown, white, yellow, red, or green). This man held not real job, ran no business, had not real experience in finance and yet he fooled america into “hope and change”. Well unless we have change now there will be no hope.
Just Proud To Be Here
September 12th, 2012
4:48 pm
Dog…Jesus did save his sharpest rebukes for the ‘religious men’. That’s why it’s not about religion but Relationship
@@
September 12th, 2012
4:50 pm
Dog Barfs:
Christians are like frogs holding a symposium round a swamp,
debating which of them is most sinful.–
Can honestly say we’ve never discussed such things at my church. We’re too busy reflecting on our own sins to worry about what others are doing.
MarkV
September 12th, 2012
4:50 pm
Bruno @ 4:46 pm
“MarkV: Bruno, where in my post have you seen anything opposing the above?”
Bruno, why did you not answer the question?
@@
September 12th, 2012
4:50 pm
Oops!
Make that Dog Barks.
tiredofIT
September 12th, 2012
4:52 pm
Willard is way out of his league.
Matz
September 12th, 2012
4:53 pm
KW: “They just hate us. Period.”
So do Americans. Millions of Americans “just hate” other Americans because they’re slightly different. Or they worship differently. Or vote for the other guy. Or work at Wal Mart. Or collect food stamps to feed their kids because they work at Wal Mart. Or because they were born rich, or weren’t born rich and got rich, or will never be rich. Or they have the unmitigated nerve to be poor. Or because they watch reality TV, or don’t watch musical contest shows. Or because they eat meat, or they won’t eat meat, or they use government to shove their religion on others, or because they don’t or won’t do that. Or because they won’t cut their grass already, or take their Christmas lights down. Or because their team got beaten and somebody is wearing the wrong color sweatshirt. Or because they’re not educated, or they’re too educated, or they’re foreign-educated, public educated, or home schooled. Or because they wish you Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas. Or because they wish you Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays.
Hating Americans? No shortage of that here. Just sayin’.
MarkV
September 12th, 2012
4:54 pm
Kyle Wingfield @ 2:00 pm
“It would have been very simple, and far more appropriate, for the tweeting staffer to point out that people in our country express their opinion without approval from our government. Likewise, it would have been far more appropriate to call on the protesters to discuss the matter civilly rather than overrunning the embassy. Right?”
Can anyone find a better example for the definition of naivety?
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
4:54 pm
It’s time to get this thing done not only for our own selfish good but for the very existence of all humanity. Further delay only waste more time and more lives.
MHS–Necessity is the mother of invention, not the other way around. As long as burning petroleum is significantly less expensive than using other sources of energy, then that’s the method we’re going to use. On the “bright” side, the cost of solar panels has dropped tremendously in the past year. Which is why solar companies like JA Solar and First Solar are now worth pennies on the dollar compared to last year.
InAtl
September 12th, 2012
4:54 pm
Yikes, Bruno, I don’t know what else to tell him. The word intransigence comes to mind though.
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
4:55 pm
MHS
Unless you nationalize the industry in someway ( I am not for that), how is the government going to tell business that they can not slow up production and exploration during times of low prices?
I understand what you are saying but these oil companies are not going to be too keen on utilizing resources when they can use their middle men or subsidiaries to transport oil to the US at a cheaper rate than they can extract here.
It has happened. May or may not happen again, but it wasn’t that long ago that many oil and natural gas “taps” were capped across the US due to price.
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
4:56 pm
Hey Matz!! Miss gabbing with you next door. Hope all is well with you and yours.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCImClgP_uY
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
4:57 pm
@Just Proud To Be Here
September 12th, 2012
4:41 pm
How can anyone lecture Romney on style or comportment after Obama has made such an ass of himself on foreign policy.
***************************************************************************
Who’s Advising Mitt Romney on Foreign Policy?
Romney is leading from their BEHINDS.
Richard Williamson, who served as Bush’s special envoy to Sudan and ambassador to the U.N.
Security Council, leveled an attack at Obama last night before it was known that Americans had
been killed.
Foreign policy has always been a tough spot for Romney.
He has to contend with both Obama’s perceived strength on the issue.
John Birch
September 12th, 2012
4:57 pm
Kelly – What damage? Our ME policy, at least before Obama, was to keep the Straits of Hormuz open and the oil flowing. MHSmith makes a decent argument that it shouldn’t have to be that way, but it is. Yet another horrendous part of the Reagan legacy, turning the energy department into a Star Wars research project. And everyone in both parties has caved into the auto industry on mileage standards for 30 years too.
Lastly, MH Smith is however missing a very important point. One day the oil will run out and it might be important to be the last country with some unless we figure out how to fly jets, drive tanks, and fire missiles using batteries!!!
Beyond the Middle of the Road
September 12th, 2012
4:58 pm
Matz @4:53: Amen!
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
5:00 pm
Can anyone find a better example for the definition of naivety?
I would say your 4:15 wins the prize hands down.
Courageous people stand up for what they believe in. Cowards appease.
tiredofIT
September 12th, 2012
5:01 pm
Maybe Ryan (wonk) can scare them with a Excel spreadsheet ( if he evens knows what one is ).
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
5:02 pm
Yikes, Bruno, I don’t know what else to tell him. The word intransigence comes to mind though.
InAtl–I was tempted to spell it out for him, but thought it would be more instructive to leave it as a homework assignment.
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
5:02 pm
@Matz
September 12th, 2012
4:53 pm
KW: “They just hate us. Period.”
So do Americans. Millions of Americans “just hate” other Americans because they’re slightly different. Or they worship differently. Hating Americans? No shortage of that here. Just sayin’.
***********************************************************************************
If you have two religions in your land, the two will cut each other’s throats;
but if you have thirty religions, they dwell in peace. –Voltaire
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
5:05 pm
MHS
One more and I will move on from this discussion. When it comes to natural gas and oil, Big Oil Bizz isn’t looking to assist in weaning the US off of foreign oil. Go look up their investments in infrastructure world wide.
Will they explore more in the US given price and access? Sure, but it is always price at the end of the day, unless mandated otherwise. Price goes down too much they will cap the US wells has they have done before.
So we are stuck playing that ME game for years to come as well as waiting for other sources of energy to become for efficient, accessible and of course cheaper.
Heck, we fund Chavez via Citgo.
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
5:06 pm
One day the oil will run out and it might be important to be the last country with some unless we figure out how to fly jets, drive tanks, and fire missiles using batteries!!!
JB–I’ve always been a big proponent of purchasing foreign oil as long as it remains affordable in order to save our own supply.
Good post!!
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
5:07 pm
@@Just Proud To Be Here
September 12th, 2012
4:41 pm
How can anyone lecture Romney on style or comportment after Obama has made such an ass of himself on foreign policy.
*****************************************************************************
Romney put his religious underwear wearing foot in his mouth again.
Even John McCain won’t defend him.
ROMNEY IS A DESPARATE MAN.
He wants to be president so baddddd.
It ain’t gonna happen.
You can’t put the stuff back into the horse.
tiredofIT
September 12th, 2012
5:07 pm
Can’t wait to hear from Queen Ann (It’s our turn).
MarkV
September 12th, 2012
5:12 pm
Bruno @5:00 pm
“Courageous people stand up for what they believe in. Cowards appease.”
Another paper hero.
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
5:12 pm
@Just Proud To Be Here
September 12th, 2012
4:41 pm
How can anyone lecture Romney on style or comportment after Obama has made such an ass of himself on foreign policy.
***********************************************************************
THEY are killing Romney on the networks for trying to dis Obama about Libya.
One reporter said, “Romney is painful to watch.”
Obama said, “Romney has a tendency to shoot first and aim later.”
Well Romney SHOT HIMSELF IN THE FOOT AGAIN.
Pooooor Mittttt Witttt
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
5:19 pm
A Dog Barks
What does Romney’s religion have to do with anything?
You were ok when people attacked Obama for his faith?
This from somebody who is not religious nor voting for Romney
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
5:19 pm
Matz @ 4:53: And how often do the meat-eaters kill the non-meat-eaters, to use one of your examples? Feel free to substitute any of your other examples if you think that makes it easier.
MrLiberty
September 12th, 2012
5:20 pm
9-11 was a blowback for our foreign policy in the middle east over the previous 100 years (yeah, do some historical research, history did not begin on 9-11), and yesterday was just another example of the blowback we can expect when we meddle in the affairs of sovereign nations. They do not hate us because we are free, they do not just hate us as the simpleton child Kyle would have us believe. They hate us because of our foreign policy, which has become more destructive, more empire-like, more insulting to the world since 9-11.
Just getting sick and tired of the uneducated sheep believing the constant lies from both sides of the aisle who want everyone to believe how Jesus-like our behavior as an empire has been in the region. Definitely more Satan-like I would say.
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
5:22 pm
Kyle, et al,
Are we still pretending not to know about this?
<iMitt Romney’s attempt to exploit the violent anti-U.S. demonstrations in Egypt and Libya to portray Obama as soft on America’s enemies backfired almost immediately, when it became clear the statement from the U.S. Embassy in Cairo he had cited was issued before the demonstrations began.
Overnight, the tragic news came that Chris Stevens, the U.S. Ambassador to Libya, and three other U.S. officials were killed while trying to flee the besieged U.S. consulate in Benghazi. But still the Mittster didn’t quit seeking to gain political advantage. Speaking in Florida this morning, he repeated the charge that the Obama Administration was failing to stand up for for things Americans hold dear, such as freedom of speech. The White House was “standing in apology for our values” and following a “terrible course,” Romney said.
The reaction to Romney’s desperate gambit has been almost universally negative. About the only people who are sticking up for him today are Jim DeMint, the Tea Party senator from South Carolina, and Bill Kristol, the editor of the Weekly Standard. Even Romney’s running mate, Paul Ryan, failed to echo his line of attack. Speaking in Wisconsin, Ryan described the killings in Libya as “pretty disturbing,” but he didn’t criticize Obama, and he said it was “a time for healing.”
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/johncassidy/2012/09/mitt-romney-and-libya-how-it-unfolded.html
Unfit to lead.
MrLiberty
September 12th, 2012
5:25 pm
Kyle@5:19. So what are you blaming genetics now, or instinct, or something fundamentally removed from the piles of bodies left in our wake in Egypt, Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan, Syria, Lybia, Lebanon (to just limit the discussion to the middle east)? I think his point is that people hate other people for actual reasons, not just “because.” W is no longer president. We don’t all need to join him in lockstep support of his inane theories that they hate us because we are free (although W and Obama have certainly done a great job fixing that problem – the freedom one).
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
5:31 pm
Another paper hero.
I’m speaking for the country.
Feel free to make a case for appeasement and reneging on our values if you care to.
Matz
September 12th, 2012
5:40 pm
Hey B! Nice tune!
Mr. Wingfield @ 5:19,
I have no knowledge of meat eaters killing vegans, or vice versa. I was speaking to the prevalence of contempt in this country that Americans have for other Americans, not “killing in the name of…” specifically, although that is an awesome Rage Against the Machine song.
Nonetheless, we do have us quite a murder rate. No shortage of killin’ here, nor excuses for doing so, nor weapons to do it with. With every evening’s broadcast entertainment beginning with some gruesome murder for the heroes to solve, it would seem we’re rather desensitized as well. Even the shock of a senseless mass shooting doesn’t even last that long anymore. I mean, in my observation.
MarkV
September 12th, 2012
5:40 pm
Mitt Romney: “It’s disgraceful that the Obama administration’s first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks.”
Romney’s statement already has been widely called disgraceful, as well as a lie, which is what it was. Kyle just obediently toes the line.
ragnar danneskjold
September 12th, 2012
5:41 pm
I was beginning to think I was too harsh on Chauncey over on the Bookman blog, but after reading Taranto this afternoon I can see I was throwing marshmallows.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443884104577647641059003360.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_MIDDLETopOpinion
MarkV
September 12th, 2012
5:42 pm
I am sick and tired of these paper heroes, like Kyle and Bruno, sitting on their butts in front of their computers and condemning someone, who has a murderous crowd in front of the building and climbing the walls, for trying to gain time before help would come rather than taking a stand then and there for freedom of expression.
I suppose Kyle or Bruno, if confronted in a dark alley with a man pointing gun and asking either of them for his wallet would give the man a lecture on the sanctity of personal possession. Or rather, they would want us to believe that they would do that.
So now Kyle recommends to the people in danger of their lives to “to point out that people in our country express their opinion without approval from our government.” To call on the murderers ”to discuss the matter civilly.” From which planet has he just dropped?
ragnar danneskjold
September 12th, 2012
5:43 pm
I hope all of the mindless drones criticizing Romney (for criticizing Fearless Leader) will read the Taranto essay this afternoon. Arrays nicely those arguments affirming the incompetence of Obama.
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
5:44 pm
JamVet @ 5:22: I was watching the Cairo embassy’s tweets yesterday afternoon, well after the walls had been breached, and the account was still condemning the movie for hours — until someone at Foggy Bottom noticed and had them removed.
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
5:45 pm
MrLiberty @ 5:25: And my point is that, while plenty of people hate plenty of other people, most of them don’t go around killing the people they hate.
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
5:47 pm
MarkV @ 5:42: As I stated earlier, my understanding is that the embassy staff had already evacuated and was not in danger at the time. Have you read any reports to the contrary?
ragnar danneskjold
September 12th, 2012
5:49 pm
Chairman Ann’s essay this afternoon is as good as Taranto’s.
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2012-09-12.html#read_more
tiredofIT
September 12th, 2012
5:49 pm
All I know is, if the 3AM call comes in I trust President Obama with the keys to the nuclear weapons. We don’t need a shoot first president.
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
5:50 pm
Kyle, THAT is your justification for not condemning the absurd, patently false comments from Romney about the President?
Even before news of this Romney debacle, vis a vis the American embassy killing, I was commenting just yesterday about his uncanny similarity to George “Foot in Mouth” Bush.
But this?
This portends an absolutely brutal next couple of months for the Flip Flopper…
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
September 12th, 2012
5:57 pm
I was going to write about how surprised I was by the liberal reaction to this crisis, but sadly, you’ve all lived down to my expectations.
At some point, you people are going to have to stand for something other than appeasement. It is what Americans do – stand for the rights our Creator gives us.
ragnar danneskjold
September 12th, 2012
5:59 pm
Looks like Romney was right all along. Glad he stuck to his original statement.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
September 12th, 2012
6:00 pm
Movies do not kill people, people with hatred in their heart and violence in their culture kill people. We need to quit making excuses for “sparking” these violent outbursts. We need to stand on our principals and values and hold the perps responsible. Weakness in this culture, begets more attacks.
JDW
September 12th, 2012
6:02 pm
@Kyle…”No, you mischaracterized my argument. That’s what I meant when I said you didn’t have it right.”
Well please elaborate, because to me these statements are potshots pure and simple.
“but do not believe that the reflexive sensibility on display in the messages came out of the blue: If nothing else, our diplomats, especially three and a half years into a presidency, are well-trained to reflect the prevailing beliefs and sensibilities of the administration in office.”
“The moral equivalence on display here — this is bad, that is bad, and no one should do bad things — is astounding.”
“And for all the crowing from Democrats, and specifically Obama, at their convention last week about their supposed foreign-policy superiority, the question I keep coming back…”
This statement, as astounding as it is, seems to give at least tacit support to the Right Wing Zealots that apparently purposely tried to evoke such a response.
“But what’s really astounding is that, 11 years to the day after 9/11, our embassies in two Arab countries could be attacked by Islamic terrorists, and our government’s response would include wagging its finger at the people whose non-violent actions allegedly triggered the terrorists’ violence. ”
And this rush to judgment…
“Yesterday, militants in that city — including, perhaps, some of the more extremist elements of the rebels whose cause we took up last year — showed their gratitude by killing four Americans, including our ambassador to Libya.”
Doesn’t seem to be supported by any evidence whatsoever. The initial reports don’t link these extremists to the government or groups that we aided. In fact the reports seem to be that Libyan civilians are the ones that took the Ambassador to the hospital in an attempt to save his life.
Seems to me that you have clearly gotten out in front of the facts, but by all means lets hear your response.
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
6:03 pm
JamVet @ 5:50: And THAT New Yorker article is what you’re relying on? It’s pretty weak sauce: Jim DeMint and Bill Kristol are hardly “the only people” or even “about the only people” sticking up for Romney today. The one statement by Hillary that it mentions as having been posted before Romney’s statement did not begin the White House walkback of the Cairo embassy’s tweets; that began after Romney’s campaign issued his statement. Like it or not, the words spoken and written by our diplomats are considered representative of the administration. And the idea that this is a “death knell” for his campaign exists only in the minds of liberals intent on wrapping up this contest well ahead of time.
MarkV
September 12th, 2012
6:05 pm
Kyle Wingfield @ 5:47 pm
Kyle, are you saying that ”some member(s) of the embassy’s staff wrote repeatedly on Twitter,” as you reported, after the embassy had been evacuated? Where is your timeline from?
JDW
September 12th, 2012
6:10 pm
@Bruno…”The right course of action isn’t to give credibility to those who would stifle free speech through violence.”
Nor is the right course to give credibility to those who have abused the right of free speech just to evoke exactly this sort of response. There is nothing the matter with saying I condemn those words however I have to support their right to utter them. Is should be clear that the abuse is distasteful and not supported.
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
6:11 pm
Kyle, you still will not address Romney’s lies will you?
And if you don’t like the New Yorker’s reporting of the facts, that’s fine; there a thousand other publications reporting the same thing.
Initially, the focus was on Egypt. Around noon local time, before the protests against the video began but following threats of violence, the U.S. Embassy in Cairo posted this statement online:
The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims—as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions. Today, the 11th anniversary of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States, Americans are honoring our patriots and those who serve our nation as the fitting response to the enemies of democracy. Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy. We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others.
It gets better…
In response to the killing, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton issued a statement on Tuesday night that said,
I condemn in the strongest terms the attack on our mission in Benghazi today. As we work to secure our personnel and facilities, we have confirmed that one of our State Department officers was killed. We are heartbroken by this terrible loss. Our thoughts and prayers are with his family and those who have suffered in this attack.
The statement went on to mention the anti-Islam video that had sparked the demonstrations:
Some have sought to justify this vicious behavior as a response to inflammatory material posted on the Internet. The United States deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of others. Our commitment to religious tolerance goes back to the very beginning of our nation. But let me be clear: There is never any justification for violent acts of this kind.
The money shot:
I’m outraged by the attacks on American diplomatic missions in Libya and Egypt and by the death of an American consulate worker in Benghazi. It’s disgraceful that the Obama administration’s first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks.
Unfit to lead.
But it’s all good, He is a dead man walking. That you haven’t noticed this from the beginning is interesting…
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
6:11 pm
@Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer’s ineptocracy
September 12th, 2012
6:00 pm
Movies do not kill people, people with hatred in their heart and violence in their culture kill people. We need to quit making excuses for “sparking” these violent outbursts. We need to stand on our principals and values and hold the perps responsible. Weakness in this culture, begets more attacks.
******************************************************
No, movies do not kill people.
Why antagonize people whom you say have hatred in their heart
and violence in their culture?
Why attack their religion?
What are your principles and values?
Some would say you are no better than they are.
Your principles and values are against PEOPLE who DO NOT LOOK
LIKE YOU, ACT LIKE, PRAY LIKE YOU.
Even Jesus defended the prostitute from the “religious” people
who wanted to stone her.
Jesus said to the people, “he who is without sin cast the first stone.”
Jesus also told the prostitute, “go and sin no more.”
Jesus believes that everyone desires A SECOND CHANCE.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 12th, 2012
6:12 pm
The U.S. has been mostly missing in action in the Middle East during the Obozo regime, and when we weren’t absent we were “leading from behind”. The world will pay a heavy price for Obozo’s malfeasance.
Maybe it’s time to start going to those intelligence briefings and cut down on the rounds of golf.
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
6:12 pm
JDW: Your 6:02 is even more off-base than your first comment about my post. There is nothing, nothing, in my post that suggests even “tacit support” for the filmmakers. One does not have to support them to point out the obvious, which is that the terrorists who killed four people have committed a far worse act.
As for your last point: What I wrote is: “…militants in that city — including, perhaps, some of the more extremist elements of the rebels whose cause we took up last year — showed their gratitude …”
Many press reports, including the one I linked within that statement, say one group being investigated as the possible culprits is called Ansar al-Shariah, which the article I linked describes as “a group of religious fighters who battled to help oust Moammar Gadhafi from power.” It remains to be seen if that is indeed the case, which is why I said “perhaps.”
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 12th, 2012
6:16 pm
Did brave Lil’ Barry condemn the attacks “in the strongest possible terms” yet?
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
6:17 pm
Politico – Hill GOP LIVES ROMNEY OUT ON LIMB ON LIBYA
Romney sparks GOP backlash after attacking Obama.
ROMNEY IS THE DEMOCRATS GIFT THAT KEEPS ON GIVING.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 12th, 2012
6:18 pm
Osama is dead. GM is alive. Our Libyan ambassador is dead.
Somehow that doesn’t have the same ring it used to.
ragnar danneskjold
September 12th, 2012
6:19 pm
After the events of today, it will be plain to America, including even leftists, which of the two candidates is more likely to defend the interests of the United States, and which is more likely to deplore those who use free speech to insult The Prophet.
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
6:20 pm
Kyle
As we have seen in the ME, those that wish to topple the current despot are not all of one accord. Some could even be more radical & brutal than the one in power, while others are making a true attempt at a better life and country.
I would say that we have seen mixed results and will continue to do so and no Romney will not change those “mixed results”.
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
6:20 pm
MarkV @ 6:05: Within this CNN report is this information:
“An embassy phone operator told CNN that the compound had been cleared of diplomatic personnel earlier in the day, ahead of the apparent threat, while Egyptian riot police and the army were called in.”
That information was cited as early as 2:07 p.m. ET yesterday in this USA Today story. That was around the time I started monitoring the Cairo embassy’s Twitter account, and the condemnations of the film continued well afterward.
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
6:20 pm
Nor is the right course to give credibility to those who have abused the right of free speech just to evoke exactly this sort of response. There is nothing the matter with saying I condemn those words however I have to support their right to utter them. Is should be clear that the abuse is distasteful and not supported.
JDW–No argument from me on your 6:10 post. Which is a far cry from the position being taken by MarkV. Standing up for what’s right doesn’t mean that it need be done in a provocative or abrasive manner.
Special for MarkV:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjWDrTXMgF8
ragnar danneskjold
September 12th, 2012
6:21 pm
After the events of yesterday, it will be plain to America, including even leftists, which of the two candidates is more likely to support Israel in its effort to survive pervasive Islamist madness.
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
6:22 pm
ragnar
Easy for Romney or whomever the challenger (D or R) might be to play “armchair qb”……………
You have no idea what Romney would or would not have done nor can he tell you definitely unless he was there.
But I am sure mAnn “adam’s apple” Coulter conveyed the “truth” to you in her article.
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
6:22 pm
BTW, JDW or MarkV–Have either of you watched the film in question?? You seem quick to condemn it.
MarkV
September 12th, 2012
6:24 pm
Kyle Wingfield @5:47 pm
Let me also remind you, Kyle, that your report, which has not been changed, states the following:
“In Cairo, protesters scaled our embassy’s walls, lowered our flag — which was at half-staff in remembrance of the 9/11 attacks — and replaced it with a banner similar to the one used by al-Qaida, and chanted, “We are all Osama,” as in bin Laden. AS THEY DID SO (my emphasis), some member(s) of the embassy’s staff wrote repeatedly on Twitter — the social media platform that was widely used by young Egyptians during their uprising against Hosni Mubarak’s government — that the U.S. government condemned … the movie.”
Therefore, whatever the true timeline, you condemnation of those Twitter statements was made in the belief that they were issued while the embassy was being attacked.
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
6:24 pm
definitively
excuse me
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
6:24 pm
JamVet @ 6:11: You have a made a mess of the chronology of this thing. You’re also ignoring the central fact here: The Obama administration’s first response — meaning, the first response from the Cairo embassy; as I said earlier, like it or not, the embassy speaks for the administration — was to condemn the movie.
ragnar danneskjold
September 12th, 2012
6:24 pm
Anyone familiar with American exceptionalism would affirm the preeminence of free speech as an American value, and would urge those who disagree to learn some tolerance. “Anyone” does not include our president.
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
6:25 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout – Vote American
September 12th, 2012
6:12 pm
The U.S. has been mostly missing in action in the Middle East during the Obozo regime, and when we weren’t absent we were “leading from behind”. The world will pay a heavy price for Obozo’s malfeasance.
Maybe it’s time to start going to those intelligence briefings and cut down on the rounds of golf.
*********************************************************************************
Obama “leading from behind”?
Romney is leading from HIS ADVISORS behinds.
“The world will pay a heavy price for Obozo’s malfeasance?”
So now Obama is RESPONSIBLE FOR THE WORLD?
“time to start going to those intelligence briefings?”
GeeDubYa went to those intelligence briefings and how
did that work out?
CAN YOU SAY – terrorists attacked on 911?
CONS have a short MEMORY.
Sallie
September 12th, 2012
6:25 pm
religion is the root of all evil.
ragnar danneskjold
September 12th, 2012
6:26 pm
Dear Both @ 6:22. good evening, would not want to confuse your pretty little head with too much real information or logical argument. You may skip reading analysis by Taranto and Coulter.
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
6:27 pm
rags, you gotta be ________ me.
It’s not worth moving heaven and earth and spending billions of dollars just to catch one person. ~Mitt Romney, 2007
Romney was also clear later that summer that he would prefer to participate with allies rather than take unilateral action to kill terrorists as Obama supported — and later did.
With Mitt at the helm, there is no reason to think that OBL would not still be alive.
Fail.
Unfit to lead.
Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
6:27 pm
MarkV @ 6:24: “Therefore, whatever the true timeline, you condemnation of those Twitter statements was made in the belief that they were issued while the embassy was being attacked.”
(Whispering) Let me tell you a secret, MarkV. You can access Twitter from anywhere! Not just your office!
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
6:27 pm
Condemning that movie is hogwash and those saying it should not have been made need to check themselves in terms of free speech.
With that said, all the other bs about what Obama did or didn’t do………. What Thurston Howell the 3rd would have done is all speculation because none of us have all the facts.
MarkV
September 12th, 2012
6:28 pm
Bruno @ 6:22 pm
“BTW, JDW or MarkV–Have either of you watched the film in question?? You seem quick to condemn it.”
Bruno, you seem to have a particular ability to make things up. Just quote me condemning the film.
JDW
September 12th, 2012
6:29 pm
@Kyle…”There is nothing, nothing, in my post that suggests even “tacit support” for the filmmakers. One does not have to support them to point out the obvious, which is that the terrorists who killed four people have committed a far worse act.”
HORSE HOOEY…
“But what’s really astounding is that, 11 years to the day after 9/11, our embassies in two Arab countries could be attacked by Islamic terrorists, and our government’s response would include wagging its finger at the people whose non-violent actions allegedly triggered the terrorists’ violence. ”
I read that statement and come away with the clear impression that you are chastising the government for taking the stance that the “non-violent” actions in question were distasteful and unsupported. Especially in light of the fact that they were apparently premeditated acts designed to create just this sort of response.
By doing so you give at least tacit support to the perpetrators of the “non violent acts”
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
6:31 pm
Rags
You failed to boost your low self esteem by mentioning “leftists” but I digress.
Coulter has exactly what foreign policy experience? Mind you she has an audience, but so do some lefty pundits, but I am not so blind as yourself as to pass her off as someone in the “know”
She is a loud mouth pundit. Heck it is mostly a joke. She makes her dough off of you and Maher off the left then they go have drinks together and laugh at the gullible.
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
6:31 pm
@ragnar danneskjold
September 12th, 2012
6:21 pm
After the events of yesterday, it will be plain to America, including even leftists, which of the two candidates is more likely to support Israel in its effort to survive pervasive Islamist madness.
*********************************************************************************
“which of the two candidates is more likely to support Israel?”
WHOOOO?
Flip flopping religious underwear wearing corporations are people
car elevator money hid in the caymans not gonna show you my
tax returns Myth Robme?
Yeah! Right!
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
6:31 pm
BEFORE the murders, Kyle!
This is not rocket science!
But your candidate then made that patently fallacious statement – It’s disgraceful that the Obama administration’s first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks. – and you STILL won’t touch it with a 3.084 meter pole!
He and his voters deserve what is coming eight weeks from tonight.
And I will be enjoying a rather substantial bowl of popcorn when it happens…
JDW
September 12th, 2012
6:35 pm
@Bruno…”JDW or MarkV–Have either of you watched the film in question?? You seem quick to condemn it”
I have researched it and found the following…
-The film was produced to call attention to the “hypocrisies” of Islam
-The film has been promoted by Terry Jones.
-It portrays Muhammad as an advocate of pedophilia and a homosexual, and also shows him having sex.
-A scene depicts Muhammad having a homoerotic, one-sided conversation with a donkey.
Sort of like a paint by numbers project to pi$$ off radical muslims.
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
6:37 pm
@Sallie
September 12th, 2012
6:25 pm
religion is the root of all evil.
*****************************************************************
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it
with religious conviction.
Of all bad men religious bad men (Baptist, Catholic, Muslim,
Jewish, etc.) are the worst.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 12th, 2012
6:37 pm
My guess is that if the PM of Israel is in the U.S. and asks for a meeting with President Romney, while his country is threatened by Iran and its nuclear program, he’d get that meeting.
Obozo’s not doing his job.
MarkV
September 12th, 2012
6:38 pm
Kyle Wingfield @ 6:27 pm
“MarkV @ 6:24: “Therefore, whatever the true timeline, you condemnation of those Twitter statements was made in the belief that they were issued while the embassy was being attacked.”
“Let me tell you a secret, MarkV. You can access Twitter from anywhere! Not just your office!”
You realize Kyle, I hope, that you statement above is a non sequitur. In other words, completely missing the point. The point is how you reported and treated the issue. Just read again what you wrote.
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
6:39 pm
That is your guess, but since you do not know for a fact……..
speculate all year if that make you a happy little camper
Bullet County
September 12th, 2012
6:39 pm
Kyle, the world is a more dangerous place because people tend to believe what they want to believe, irregardless of the facts. How else do you explain the Republican POTUS candidate repeatedly expressing bogus talking points and you repeating them as if they have merit. It makes it easy to understand how a Republican candidate as flawed as Glenn Richardson is a lock for a long career as a Republican politician in this state. “While the United States rejects efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others, we must all unequivocally oppose the kind of senseless violence that took the lives of these public servants.” The moral equivalence on display here — this is bad, that is bad, and no one should do bad things — is astounding. What is astounding is your total lack of a grasp of the meaning of the aforementioned statement.
Dusty
September 12th, 2012
6:40 pm
This is the most pathetic blog I have read in some time. We have a tragedy of four Americans killed by protesters in Libya and the people on this blog start talking like they want to kill each other. And I do mean each and other Americans.
The hate spreads from Bush to Obama with religion and oil and personal vendettas thrown in. What is the matter with you people? Where does America stand?
Well, I would say right now that the Osama supporters, better know as terrorists and haters of Americans have succeeded very well with one mob attack in dividing Americans against each other.
I do not plan to vote for President Obama but I think he has shown restraint in his statements . I think he still needs more information and must move and speak with great care.. This is not a Pearl Harbor or a 9/11 and we must not turn this tragedy into a duel of immediate action. We must not send our military into suicide missions. Their hands are more than full already.
I am sorry that Romney spoke before full acccounts came in. When he got accurate infomation he knew what a difficult situation this was and refrained from saying more.
I wish some of you here would refrain from saying more. You are already a disgrace, not far from the thinking of that fired up stupid mob in Libya. Even Kyle seemed to go a bit beyond reasonable.
Think twice before you post like some mindless foaming yahoo. We are a great country. Act like it!
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
6:40 pm
Condemning that movie is hogwash and those saying it should not have been made need to check themselves in terms of free speech.
TBS–I’ll stand with you on that point. The things I find offensive in life, I ignore.
Gotta run, taking PB out for our 1 year anniversary tonight.
Lynnie Gal
September 12th, 2012
6:41 pm
It’s pretty clear where America stands, really. We stand against violence of this kind. We stand for freedom of religion. We stand for freedom of expression. We stand for tolerance, but will not tolerate mindless violence cloaked in religion. Nor will we tolerate provocateurs who abuse freedom of expression to incite violence. This is where America stands. It is not complicated. It is not confusing. It is really a rhetorical question.
They BOTH suck
September 12th, 2012
6:42 pm
Bruno
Enjoy. Have a great time
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
6:42 pm
POLL;
Majority think President Obama is a “STRONG AND DECISIVE LEADER”.
CONS ain’t you TIRED of dogging Obama?
ITS NOT WORKING. It only makes “YOU” FEEL GOOD.
GIVE IT UP!!!!!
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
6:46 pm
@Dusty
September 12th, 2012
6:40 pm
Think twice before you post like some mindless foaming yahoo. We are a great country. Act like it!
************************************************************************************
“We are a great country. Act like it!”
America has NEVER BEEN America to some of us.
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
6:49 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout – Vote American
September 12th, 2012
6:37 pm
My guess is that if the PM of Israel is in the U.S. and asks for a meeting with President Romney, while his country is threatened by Iran and its nuclear program, he’d get that meeting.
Obozo’s not doing his job.
*****************************************************************
“if the PM of Israel is in the U.S. and asks for a meeting with President Romney”
President Romney?
heeheeheeheeheehee
IF “IF” WAS A FIFTH WE’D ALL BE DRUNK.
heeheeheeheeheehee
Sallie
September 12th, 2012
6:55 pm
Time to crank up the crusades.
Del
September 12th, 2012
7:05 pm
We’re witnessing the unraveling of the Obama administrations appeasement of radical Islam and the asinine lead from behind foreign policy. Unfortunately, it has taken American lives to clarify the danger this president presents not just domestically but internationally.
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
7:07 pm
Romney FUMBLES the ball.
The desparate REACH by Romney.
How did Romney get into this mess?
He’s a candidate without the facts and friends.
He thought this was a POLITICAL GAIN.
He got the key facts wrong.
He has very FEW defenders. Not even John McCain will defend him.
This is the MAN who Lil Barry Bailout wants to be the PRESIDENT.
Romney allowed the events to CONTROL HIM.
heeheeheeheeheeheehee
ragnar danneskjold
September 12th, 2012
7:07 pm
Now as additional information arises it looks like we have disparate causes in the two attacks. The Egypt attack was a peculiar one, in that the government security forces responsible for embassy security – it is a daily issue – simply walked away from their duties. This was a government-tolerated, if not a government-sanctioned attack by an Iranian-revolution-style mob.
In contrast, Libya was a coordinated action, bearing the earmarks of al Qaeda, but in an area not under control of the Libyan government. The Libyan government expression of support is likely genuine.
In contrast, seemingly even Obama recognizes that the Egypt affair is of a different ilk. Note Obama’s silence on Egypt. The administration’s prior support of the Egyptian Brotherhood was supposed to purchase peace there; this is an incontrovertible collapse of Obama’s Middle East appeasement doctrine.
ATLien
September 12th, 2012
7:08 pm
Kyle why are you and the rest of the right trying to cover up for the ill advised comments that Romney made at the TIME he made them? Its amazing. Peggy Noonan criticizes Romney on Fox News this am and the broadcaster tries to conjure up issues with the timeline of the statements. THE TIMELINE IS CLEAR. Romney’s statements were ill advised and sabre rattling at the most inappropriate time. Which is why he clearly tried to deliver a more measured response this am and continued to trip all over himself again.
ragnar danneskjold
September 12th, 2012
7:08 pm
Omission in my 7:07, the Libyan government support is “of America.” I give that government a pass in analyzing blame.
ragnar danneskjold
September 12th, 2012
7:09 pm
Dear ATLien @ 7:08, Ms. Noonan is more likely to be issuing the retraction. Looks like Romney’s comments were spot on, even prescient.
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
7:11 pm
@Del
September 12th, 2012
7:05 pm
We’re witnessing the unraveling of the Obama administrations appeasement of radical Islam and the asinine lead from behind foreign policy. Unfortunately, it has taken American lives to clarify the danger this president presents not just domestically but internationally.
************************************************************************
CONS make up their own REALITY.
“We’re witnessing the unraveling of the Obama administrations
appeasement of radical Islam”
WE can SMELL A LIE A FOOT AWAY.
sniff….sniff…..I smell a lie.
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
7:15 pm
@ATLien
September 12th, 2012
7:08 pm
Kyle why are you and the rest of the right trying to cover up for the ill advised comments that Romney made at the TIME he made them? Its amazing. Peggy Noonan criticizes Romney on Fox News this am and the broadcaster tries to conjure up issues with the timeline of the statements. THE TIMELINE IS CLEAR. Romney’s statements were ill advised and sabre rattling at the most inappropriate time. Which is why he clearly tried to deliver a more measured response this am and continued to trip all over himself again.
**************************************************************************************
“Kyle why are you and the rest of the right trying to cover up for the ill advised comments that Romney made at the TIME he made them?”
WHY?
Because CONS make up THIER OWN REALITY.
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
7:16 pm
Flip’s fumblerooskie vis vis the embassy murders.
What a big mouth cad.
Sure he beat the six stooges in Division 3 of Republican football, but now he’s in the FBS.
And he is a big underdog…
F. Sinkwich
September 12th, 2012
7:20 pm
“America has NEVER BEEN America to some of us.”
Well, if one, like you, is a euro-socialist O’bozo sycophant, I can understand that sentiment.
You should go over to Jay’s blog. He’s down with you.
ragnar danneskjold
September 12th, 2012
7:25 pm
February 14, 1979 – US Ambassador to Afghanistan is murdered by Islamists during attempt to kidnap him
Nov 4, 1979 – Islamist mob seizes US Embassy in Iran, takes 63 hostages
Nov 21, 1979, Islamist mob seizes and burns US Embassy in Pakistan.
Current events: seems like a trip down memory lane. Does anyone remember what the economy was like in 1979?
ATLien
September 12th, 2012
7:25 pm
@ragnar
Spot on? You’re laughable
If she issues a retraction then her credibility is in question. Fact is, the timeline is well documented so I will take it that she’s under pressure from Fox News to toe the company line at the expense of facts. But that’s what that network specializes in so I shouldn’t be surprised.
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
7:25 pm
@JamVet
September 12th, 2012
7:16 pm
Flip’s fumblerooskie vis vis the embassy murders.
What a big mouth cad.
Sure he beat the six stooges in Division 3 of Republican football, but now he’s in the FBS.
And he is a big underdog…
**********************************************************************
He’s a light weight.
He’s a rookie.
He’s a fumbling flip flopper.
He has soft hands and he always drops the ball.
Stephenson Billings
September 12th, 2012
7:27 pm
The media once again shows its hand…….
How the media turned Obama’s foreign policy bungle into a Romney gaffe
http://washingtonexaminer.com/how-the-media-turned-obamas-foreign-policy-bungle-into-a-romney-gaffe/article/2507779#.UFEZvLIiaSo
ragnar danneskjold
September 12th, 2012
7:28 pm
Dear ATLien @ 7:25, next you will be telling us the US Embassy in Cairo did not apologize for the offense against Islam. Romney nailed it, and even the Obama administration is now backing off what the Obama administration said.
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
7:28 pm
@ragnar danneskjold
September 12th, 2012
7:25 pm
February 14, 1979 – US Ambassador to Afghanistan is murdered by Islamists during attempt to kidnap him
Nov 4, 1979 – Islamist mob seizes US Embassy in Iran, takes 63 hostages
Nov 21, 1979, Islamist mob seizes and burns US Embassy in Pakistan.
Current events: seems like a trip down memory lane. Does anyone remember what the economy was like in 1979?
****************************************************************************
Good lord.
What is your point?
No one wants to go back to 1979.
Heck some of us can’t remember 2011………….
heeheeheeheeheeheehee
Stephenson Billings
September 12th, 2012
7:29 pm
which goes along with this:
Open mic catches reporters coordinating questions
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/press-coordinates-question-ask-romney_652241.html
Hillbilly D
September 12th, 2012
7:30 pm
He has soft hands and he always drops the ball.
As a sports metaphor, that one misses the mark. In sports, a person who is referred to as having “soft hands” is always better at catching a ball (be it baseball, football, whatever) than someone who doesn’t, i.e. “hard hands”.
JDW
September 12th, 2012
7:30 pm
@kyle…the blog is eating posts again.
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
7:31 pm
“Nailed it” is now the Republican euphemism for lied?
Who knew?
ragnar danneskjold
September 12th, 2012
7:33 pm
Dear Dog Barks @ 7:28, “Good lord. What is your point? No one wants to go back to 1979. Heck some of us can’t remember 2011………….heeheeheeheeheeheehee”
Isn’t it obvious? The truth underlying your laughter is that Obama IS the second term of Jimmy Carter. Might as well laugh; otherwise you would have to cry.
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
7:33 pm
Hillbilly is correct.
Hands of steel may be a compliment in boxing, but not in any other sport…
HD, did you ever read Ball Four?
I was probably 12 and that was probably the first time I encountered that concept…
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
7:34 pm
Thanks Jesus and Allah that he is NOT the third term of George (W)orst Ever Bush!
Hillbilly D
September 12th, 2012
7:35 pm
HD, did you ever read Ball Four?
I did but it was probably 40 years ago. I hope there’s no pop quiz later.
ragnar danneskjold
September 12th, 2012
7:37 pm
In all fairness to President Carter, he got three and one-half initiatives right during his mostly unlamented term. He deregulated interest rates; he deregulated the airlines; and he deregulated interstate trucking. I give him a half point for the Camp David accords between Egypt and Israel, which held until the current administration abandoned the government of Egypt.
In contrast, every Obama initiative has added burdens to the economy. He is just a bit slower (intellectually – that was not a jab about the famous Obama tendency to dither when a decision is needed) than was Mr. Carter.
ragnar danneskjold
September 12th, 2012
7:38 pm
Dear JamVet @ 7:31, I am aware that for you Clintonistas, “nailed it” has a completely different meaning.
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
7:44 pm
@ragnar danneskjold
September 12th, 2012
7:28 pm
Dear ATLien @ 7:25, next you will be telling us the US Embassy in Cairo did not apologize for the offense against Islam. Romney nailed it, and even the Obama administration is now backing off what the Obama administration said.
******************************************************************************
“Romney nailed it?”
Who says he did?
New Yorker
September 12, 2012
“Libya Surprise” Could Be Death Knell for Romney Campaign
Bloomberg
By Julie Hirschfeld Davis and Phil Mattingly – Sep 12, 2012 5:34 PM ET
Romney Criticized for Handling of Libya Protests, Death
New York Times
By DAVID E. SANGER and ASHLEY PARKER
Published: September 12, 2012
Behind Romney’s Decision to Attack Obama on Libya
By Wednesday morning, as the sequence of events and the scope of the tragedy in Benghazi became more clear, Mr. Romney’s initial statement and ensuing comments were coming under attack as clumsy at best.
By later in the day, even SOME REPUBLICAN ALLIES WERE DECLINING to follow his lead, and some acknowledged that he looked as if he was trying to score points in the middle of a crisis.
HE NAILED IT?
Not.
Stephenson Billings
September 12th, 2012
7:51 pm
Gee, Obama didn’t take any questions at his “press conference” today on the subject. Go figure.
Stephenson Billings
September 12th, 2012
7:53 pm
Not that there would have been any hard or condemning questions asked like the ones the press coordinated with each other to ask Romney. Anything they can do to protect Obama I guess.
Del
September 12th, 2012
7:55 pm
“sniff….sniff…..I smell a lie.”
Disengage your head from where you sit down and you might find the air a bit fresher.
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
7:58 pm
@ragnar danneskjold
September 12th, 2012
7:37 pm
In contrast, every Obama initiative has added burdens to the economy. He is just a bit slower (intellectually – that was not a jab about the famous Obama tendency to dither when a decision is needed) than was Mr. Carter.
******************************************************************************
The Trouble With Ragnar Danneskjold?
Ragnar Danneskjöld (born 1980), in Ayn Rand’s novel Atlas Shrugged, was a philosopher who became a privateer.
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
7:59 pm
rags, good one! (in the fifth grade.)
Even our host had no reasoned rejoinder after I pointed out that your RINO candidate lied through his teeth on the Libyan embassy murders matter.
But least he did not try to dance off onto some other topic after being show the truth in black and white.
Perhaps you could learn from him?
gm
September 12th, 2012
8:00 pm
Since Romney and the right wing nut jobs love wars so much, I wonder how many of his sons are going to sign up to go fight, oh, thats right he going to have poor, middle, class conservatives to do it for him.
Thank you Mitt for showing the world and independent voters that you dont have what it takes to lead this country anywhere, I dare you insult the President who has killed more terrorist then any President.
Whats amazing his own party leaders are not backing him on this, no one but these stupid bubbas conservatives who Obama has kept safe for 4 years go figure these idiots”””
Goldie
September 12th, 2012
8:04 pm
How can any self-respecting American still support the Romney/Ryan ticket for November? Reckless, incompetent and desperate at this point. Convention speeches — a great opportunity to reveal what’s inside their hearts and minds, and yet no mention or recognition of our fighting troops in Afghanistan! How can it be that they would forget to even mention them?
So I would like to know why you Cons hate America so much that you would stand by this terrible slate of candidates now???
Linda
September 12th, 2012
8:06 pm
Michael Smith, & at least 2 other Americans, want us to utilize our own natural resources, but what he forgets are those Global Cooling warnings from the ’70s, the Global Warming warnings from the ’90s & the Climate Change (All of the Above) warnings from the ’00s. What about the hoe axe that Obama & the environmentalists perpetrate on the American people? What about the bugs & toads in Texas & the fearful moose in Alaska? Are we to deny them their civil rights?
We need to spend more trillions of dollars that we don’t have, that we can easily borrow from China, who we give foreign aid back to, to continue to suck oil from our enemies, who use both our oil money & our foreign aid to kill our military in the Middle East.
Michael, please!
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
September 12th, 2012
8:06 pm
I’d like to see anyone post EXACTLY what Romney lied about. Thus far, we have AmVet coining such, but considering his views and unreliability regarding facts, he really hasn’t made the case with data – just faulty opinion.
Del
September 12th, 2012
8:07 pm
Evidently many are concluding that this was a coordinated attack with radical Islamic elements in Cairo planning with their fellow Jihadists in Libya to murder our Diplomats. The lefts politically correct appeasement philosophy that Obama also adopts has only put us behind an enemy that’s sworn to destroy us. No one knows the ratio of moderate Muslims to radical but we do know that the radicals are an enemy, which we need to destroy before they destroy us.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
September 12th, 2012
8:11 pm
Gee AmVet. I didn’t realize Obama gave up golf and campaigning to go all Rambo and kill terrorists. Don’t you mean “ordered” the killing of terrorists?
Interested Observer
September 12th, 2012
8:12 pm
Kyle wrote, “‘[Condoleeza Rice:] Where does America stand? You see when the friends or foes alike don’t know the answer to that question, unambiguously and clearly, the world is likely to be a more dangerous and chaotic place.’…Evidently so.”
For perspective, here’s a reminder of a few incidents that took place during the clarity that we enjoyed under Condoleeza Rice years–
June 14, 2002, U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan
Suicide bomber kills 12 and injures 51.
February 20, 2003, international diplomatic compound in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
Truck bomb kills 17.
February 28, 2003, U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan
Gunmen on motorcycles killed two consulate guards.
July 30, 2004, U.S. embassy in Taskkent, Uzbekistan
Suicide bomber kills two.
December 6, 2004, U.S. consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Militants stormed and occupied perimeter wall. Five killed, 10 wounded.
March 2, 2006, U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan
Suicide car bomber killed four, including a U.S. diplomate directly targeted by the assailants.
September 12, 2006, U.S. embassy in Damascus, Syria
Gunmen attacked embassy with grenades, automatic weapons, and a car bomb (though second truck bomb failed to detonate). One killed and 13 wounded.
January 12, 2007, U.S. embassy in Athens, Greece
A rocket-propelled grenade was fired at the embassy building. No one was injured.
July 9, 2008, U.S. consulate in Istanbul, Turkey
Armed men attacked consulate with pistols and shotguns. Three policemen killed.
March 18, 2008, U.S. embassy in Sana’a, Yemen
Mortar attack misses embassy, hits nearby girls’ school instead.
September 17, 2008, U.S. embassy in Sana’a, Yemen
Militants dressed as policemen attacked the embassy with RPGs, rifles, grenades and car bombs. Six Yemeni soldiers and seven civilians were killed. Sixteen more were injured.
@@
September 12th, 2012
8:13 pm
Dog’s posts are looking familiar…a blast from the past.
Anyhoo, today’s Voltaire doesn’t get many hits on YouTube. Probably because his music and message SUX.
But ain’t it grand he has the freedom to express himself without fear of being murdered?
Yes it is.
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
8:13 pm
There are ONLY two organizations in the world that deny anthropogenic climate change – the Republican Party and the North Korean government.
Every scientific organization in the world along with the United States military is on the correct side in this matter.
Good job, GOP and DPRK…
Stephenson Billings
September 12th, 2012
8:14 pm
OBAMA WENT TO SLEEP NOT KNOWING WHAT WAS HAPPENING THERE
nice…………..
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
8:16 pm
Poor tibs, go back and read the confab between Kyle and myself.
It is all right there in black and white.
Or don’t.
Ignorance, especially of your willful variety, is bliss, huh?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
September 12th, 2012
8:17 pm
When caught in his all too usual mistakes, AmVet resorts to climte change deflections.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 12th, 2012
8:18 pm
The Obozo administration took their eye off the ball in the ME. They thought Obozo’s Nobel and his apology tour had made it all better. Actually, our enemies in the ME correctly see Obozo as weak, or perhaps even sympathetic to the cause of the Islamofascists.
Stephenson Billings
September 12th, 2012
8:18 pm
On a side note:
Survey: One-Third Of Americans In ‘Lower Classes’ Since Obama Took Office
“In the course of Obama’s presidency, people saying they are in the “lower classes” have risen from one-quarter to one-third of the adult population”
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/09/12/survey-one-third-of-americans-in-lower-classes-since-obama-took-office/
@@
September 12th, 2012
8:18 pm
Goldie:
‘Ya know what’s funny. The DNC convention honored our troops with a video of Russian vessels. They apologized and then followed the apology with “But Romney didn’t even mention the troops.”
It was an unforced error on Romney’s part. After reading today’s posts, he’s probably reluctant to mention anything military. You guys have him pegged as a warmonger.
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
8:20 pm
Tibs, quit obsessing over me. I know it is damn difficult for you and always gets you in trouble. (grin)
Linda brought up the climate change topic.
Are you even reading this forum or just jumping in from time to time like some deer running through the woods?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
September 12th, 2012
8:20 pm
As I wrote, AmVet, and Kyle’s responses to you seem to back up, your opinion was (as usual) formed with faulty information.
Stephenson Billings
September 12th, 2012
8:22 pm
Libs always say they want to go back to the Clinton years:
US median income lowest since 1995
“The median income of American households dropped to its lowest level since 1995 last year, extending its decline during President Barack Obama’s tenure and highlighting the depth of the damage to the middle class inflicted by the recession and weak recovery.”
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/ed14fc70-fc51-11e1-aef9-00144feabdc0.html#axzz26IwqnX5J
Del
September 12th, 2012
8:24 pm
The morons are aplenty on Jay’s blog this evening. A recent poster recants all of the heavy lifting and grief the Bush administration went through to rebuild our intelligence and military from his predecessors lack of attention to national security concerns. Unfortunately, his successor has squandered all of that hard work to once again put us into jeopardy.
Stephenson Billings
September 12th, 2012
8:25 pm
CONVENTION BOUNCE GONE: O 46% R 45%
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
8:25 pm
Good grief, tibs.
Reading is fundamental.
To @@’s point, the man is better off keeping his mouth shut…
Free at last, Free at last
September 12th, 2012
8:25 pm
Did terrorism world wide go down when Bush was in office?
I remember once when Powell attempted to claim that it had, but had to back away because his own State Department’s analysis said different.
Reading some of these posts, it would appear the world was as secure as it ever was before Jan 09.
If anyone has substantiated information that verifies we are safer or weaker, please post.
Thanks in advance.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 12th, 2012
8:28 pm
If anyone has substantiated information that verifies we are safer or weaker, please post.
Thanks in advance.
—————-
Never heard of the googles?
Del
September 12th, 2012
8:30 pm
“Poor tibs, go back and read the confab between Kyle and myself.”
AmVet I think you believe yourself to be a blog legend only in your own mind. I don’t think Kyle cringes at the sight of your postings on his blog. Go back to Jay, he’ll pamper you.
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
8:32 pm
@Stephenson Billings
September 12th, 2012
7:51 pm
Gee, Obama didn’t take any questions at his “press conference” today on the subject. Go figure.
*************************************************************
That was not a time for questions.
A husband, father, son, uncle was killed.
It was a time for condolences.
Joe the Prophet
September 12th, 2012
8:33 pm
BREAKING NEWS….!!!!!!!!
Mitt’s plan for Libya…..BUY THEM OUT in a leveraged transaction…..SHIP ALL THEIR JOBS TO CHINA…..Take their money and invest it in Grand Cayman and Switzerland so it’s tax free…!!!!
Paul Ryan…..!?!?!? He really doesn’t have a plan, but he can see Canada from his house..!!!!
Linda
September 12th, 2012
8:33 pm
If the left (Democrats, liberals, socialists, Marxists, Communists, progressives, nationalists, statists, American bankrupters, etc., whatever you want to call them) believe that our breath (what we exhale)(carbon dioxide) is causing global warning/climate change, why do they continue to breathe & buy soft drinks from fast food joints?
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
8:33 pm
For the glutton for punishment…
“Gov. Romney seems to have a tendency to shoot first and aim later, and as president, one of the things I’ve learned is you can’t do that,” Obama said during an interview with CBS. “It’s important for you to make sure that the statements that you make are backed up by the facts and that you’ve thought through the ramifications before you make them.”
Romney’s first statement came Tuesday night around 10 p.m. ET, as reports indicated an American diplomatic worker in Benghazi, Libya, had been killed in an attack on the consulate there. The Republican candidate’s statement was sent BEFORE news broke that the American ambassador to Libya, J. Christopher Stevens, had been killed in the attack.
In his statement, Romney said, “It’s disgraceful that the Obama Administration’s first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks,”
Like I said, to Kyle, this is not rocket science.
Quit whining, Del.It is unbecoming for an ex-marine…
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
8:34 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout – Vote American
September 12th, 2012
8:28 pm
If anyone has substantiated information that verifies we are safer or weaker, please post.
Thanks in advance.
—————-
Never heard of the googles?
******************************************************************
Lil Barry……LINK PLEASE
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
8:35 pm
Linda, you and the North Koreans stand completely alone against the rest of an educated humanity.
You gotta be proud of that!
Stephenson Billings
September 12th, 2012
8:38 pm
“That was not a time for questions.
A husband, father, son, uncle was killed.
It was a time for condolences.”
Unless it’s Romney’s press conference, then it’s fair game. Gotcha. At least he didn’t run off to Vegas.
Del
September 12th, 2012
8:39 pm
Well the best the leftists can come up with tonight is a barking chihuahua, JamVet and Joe the Muppet. If I missed any of the other losers feel free to speak up.
Red
September 12th, 2012
8:39 pm
Mooslems need to chill the F out and figure out that Isreal is trying to drum up war. Obama said so today.
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
8:39 pm
@Linda
September 12th, 2012
8:33 pm
If the left (Democrats, liberals, socialists, Marxists, Communists, progressives, nationalists, statists, American bankrupters, etc., whatever you want to call them) believe that our breath (what we exhale)(carbon dioxide) is causing global warning/climate change, why do they continue to breathe & buy soft drinks from fast food joints?
***********************************************************************************
” why do they continue to buy soft drinks from fast food joints?”
The SAME reason CONS continue to buy MOUNTAIN DEW for breakfast,
lunch, dinner and they even put it in their babies bottles.
I guess that’s why CONS have mountain dew teeth.
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
8:40 pm
Linda, the United States Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines all take the threat of anthropogenic climate change very seriously. And are conducting their own studies and taking their own measures in that regard.
The commies.
Do you want some links so that you can read up on it?
Del
September 12th, 2012
8:42 pm
So Obummer flew out Vegas to shoot some crap, heck he doesn’t have to leave Washington to do that.
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
8:42 pm
Del, you are a hoot…
Del
September 12th, 2012
8:44 pm
JamVet, thanks…you too.
@@
September 12th, 2012
8:44 pm
AmVet:
To @@’s point, the man is better off keeping his mouth shut…
Too many politicians are smooth talkers. Romney’s different…he’s not a politician. I thought that’s what voters wanted.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 12th, 2012
8:45 pm
Lil Barry……LINK PLEASE
———————–
Well, if you really don’t know…
http://www.google.com
Let me guess…you went to public schools…
mike
September 12th, 2012
8:45 pm
“The morons are aplenty on Jay’s blog this evening. A recent poster recants all of the heavy lifting and grief the Bush administration went through to rebuild our intelligence and military from his predecessors lack of attention to national security concerns. Unfortunately, his successor has squandered all of that hard work to once again put us into jeopardy.”-Del
“Any comment that refers to discussions on another AJC blog’s comments thread will be subject to removal. These comments only serve to distract from the discussion on this blog and to start fights among commenters. If you have something to say in another blog’s discussion, say it there. If you have been banned from that blog, my blog is not a place for you to air your grievances, or a mirror site for you to try to participate in it anyway.”-Kyle
What are rules if not to be broken.
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
8:47 pm
@Del
September 12th, 2012
8:39 pm
Well the best the leftists can come up with tonight is a barking chihuahua, JamVet and Joe the Muppet. If I missed any of the other losers feel free to speak up.
*******************************************************************************
OKAY MOUNTAIN DEW TEETH.
I am a barking Jack Russell/Bichon Frise Poodle.
YOU BETTER RECOGNIZE!
bow wow…..bow wow……
ATLien
September 12th, 2012
8:47 pm
Thanks Del, seems as if everyone with common sense understands the facts as they are indeed facts. But the Romney apologist are out in full force spinning stupidity and nuance as a result of their blind ideology which probably at the the end of the day does them more a disservice than good
Secondly, the reason why Mitt was asked questions is BECAUSE HE’S NOT THE PRESIDENT. The president has a different set of standards. He has to be stately and presidential and in the midst of this crisis, not stoop to the level of addressing Mitt Romney in a National Security oriented press conference. HOW STUPID ARE YOU Stephenson Billings?
Linda
September 12th, 2012
8:47 pm
JamVet@8:20, Don’t blame me for bringing up the “climate change topic.” It was Michael today that brought up the audacity of our using our own God-given natural resources to wean our dependance off foreign oil.
Some deer running through the woods? That’s what I said, but they’re not just ordinary deer. They’re moose & maybe a few elk that have been intimidated by stationery pipelines & the shadows they create, up there in Alaska, where the fed. govt. knows what is best for moose & elk, not the residents of Alaska, who hate their state & the outstanding wildlife they have. Just leave it up to the fed. govt. to decide what is best.
ATLien
September 12th, 2012
8:48 pm
Sorry, thanks Jam Vet for the post with the facts
A Dog Barks When His Master Is Attacked
September 12th, 2012
8:55 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout – Vote American
September 12th, 2012
8:45 pm
Lil Barry……LINK PLEASE
———————–
Well, if you really don’t know…
http://www.google.com
Let me guess…you went to public schools…
*******************************************************************************
WRONG……..
I went to a private school in Washington, DC.
Let me guess………YOU GOT YOUR GED online
heeheeheeheeheeheeheehee
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
September 12th, 2012
8:56 pm
So AmVet can’t even tell time.
Got it.
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
8:57 pm
Linda, got it.
I just think it’s time that you Republicans join in with the community of nations, highly respected scientific organizations and the awesome United States military to take on this challenge instead of pretending that it does not exist.
“The minute the Republican party becomes the anti-science party, we have a huge problem,” he said. “When we take a position that isn’t willing to embrace evolution, when we take a position that basically runs counter to what 98 out of 100 climate scientists from what the National Academy of Scientists said on what is causing climate change, and man’s contribution to it, I think we find ourselves on the wrong side of science and in a losing position.” ~Jon Huntsman
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
8:59 pm
tibs, quit pouting.
Let me guess…you went to public schools…
BB, you didn’t?
Del
September 12th, 2012
8:59 pm
Obama looked like a weak apologist and an incompetent ass this morning before he flew off to his Vegas fund raiser. This attack on our ambassador and his staff that murdered them was an attack on America and the president should have strongly put it in that context.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 12th, 2012
9:01 pm
Romney: I wouldn’t turn down Netanyahu meeting
While greeting supporters in Jacksonville, Fla. after his press conference on the attacks in Egypt and Libya, Mitt Romney took a subtle swipe at President Obama’s relations with Israel.
“I can’t ever imagine if the Prime Minister of Israel asked to meet with me, I can’t imagine ever saying no,” Romney said when asked about Israel, according to a pool report. “They’re our friends. They’re our closest allies in the Middle East.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/09/12/romney-i-wouldnt-turn-down-netanyahu-meeting/
——————-
No real American president would.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 12th, 2012
9:04 pm
Good thing there isn’t much going on in the world, otherwise Obozo would have to skip the trip to Vegas and wouldn’t be able to beg for campaign cash from his fatcat donors.
Obozo: Voting “present” on Middle East turmoil and Iran nukes.
Vote American.
Del
September 12th, 2012
9:05 pm
Gee Mike do you carry a badge? Probably one you got in your Christmas stocking years ago that you carry around still believing its real.
@@
September 12th, 2012
9:07 pm
Dog bark’s the perpetual name changer.
http://blogs.ajc.com/kyle-wingfield/2012/09/06/georgia-charter-schools-amendment-gets-boost-from-rnc/?cp=all#comment-148707
I’m curious, Dog Bark…why do you do that?
AmVet:
Did you know that global warming is dead last on Pew’s Top Policy Priorities for 2012? Nobody cares ‘cept you, Rocky Anderson, and Bullwinkle.
Karl Rove
September 12th, 2012
9:09 pm
Good job Kyle – you kow Obama has no diplomatic skills unlike Mitt who has been training with Dick Cheney and John Bolton. Mitt would have nuked those sand rats by now. Probably Obama and the DNC made that film to show how he was not one of them Muslims . We all know he is a Muslim with a name like Hussein.
Remeber if you pass gas and can find a Muslim in the room blame it on them.
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
9:10 pm
C,mon cover up artists! The putz lied. Why is that so hard for you to admit??
(CNN) – Has Mitt Romney twisted the narrative of Tuesday’s attacks at U.S. missions in Libya and Egypt?
A timeline of the events suggests Romney was wrong in his accusation that the Obama administration’s “first response” on Tuesday was one of sympathy for those who started the violence itself–as the violence came after the first statement was published.
Condemnation of Romney’s tactics has been sure and swift though and that is a good thing to see.
Even 99.9% the Republicans won’t touch this Romney boner with a ten foot pole.
The election is as good as over now…
Linda
September 12th, 2012
9:11 pm
JamVet@8:35, Maybe you should expand your scope of information.
The climate change bill was one of the first Obama pushed forward & was passed in the house under Pelosi by 219 to 212 on 6/26/09 but was soundly rejected in the Democratically-controlled Senate. Why? Because Democrats believed that it was a hoax ((pronounced hoe axe in certain circles).
Obama is pushing it forward thru the EPA in a circumvention of congress & the constitution, bankrupting coal companies, as he promised, & causing utility rates to “skyrocket,” as he promised.
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
9:12 pm
Nobody cares ‘cept you…
Republicode for I don’t, so nobody does.
You could not possibly be more wrong.
There are way too many non-ostriches in the world for you and the North Koreans to speak for them…
JDW
September 12th, 2012
9:12 pm
@LBB…”Vote American.”
I intend to…along with 50%+ of the electorate. The American from Hawaii that keeps his money in an American bank. You know the one that isn’t ashamed of his tax returns.
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
9:14 pm
Linda, you are parsing the topic.
You do not believe in anthropogenic climate change.
The Republican leadership does not.
The North Korean government does not.
Virtually everybody else of consequence does, including the US military.
Is that correct?
JDW
September 12th, 2012
9:14 pm
“I can’t ever imagine if the Prime Minister of Israel asked to meet with me, I can’t imagine ever saying no,” Romney said when asked about Israel, ”
See that’s the difference between Romney and Obama. One is at Netanyahu’s beck and call. The other does what is best for America.
@@
September 12th, 2012
9:16 pm
AmVet:
It was a public opinion poll. Dead last on voters’ list of priorities.
D
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Del
September 12th, 2012
9:17 pm
Oops, gas attack… probably green gas from our leftist posters. They sure can stink up a place.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
September 12th, 2012
9:25 pm
Random thoughts on different posts:
As I peruse these posting listing all the Muslim atrocities perpetrated on the US, some that happened on Carter’s, Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II, and Obama’s watch, where the poster blamed that administration, I couldn’t help but think, Hey, that is a lot of atrocities, when do we get PO’d at these folks? The first hundred times maybe, but I’m tired of those who make excuses for these terrorists.
Why did Obama quit using the War on Terror. Too harsh, I guess, maybe inflame all those “peace loving” Muslims working everyday to help us. It is OK to talk about a GOP war on Women, but the War on Terror, totally over the top and insensitive.
All those other governments and the military were all in on the Ozone Hole Death theory, the Nuclear Winter theory, the global New Ice Age theory, so they couldn’t ever be wrong, right. Some people it seems, fall for whatever disaster theory someone cooks up.
You would think the Muslims would want Obama to win, after he has coddled them, apologized to them, helped them overthrow their tyrants, and formulated Obamacare to recognize dhimmitude and their opposition to insurance. He is a sensitive guy, for sure. Besides being filled with hate, violent, and irrational, they also seem very ungrateful.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 12th, 2012
9:26 pm
The other does what is best for America.
———————-
$1.5 trillion deficits every year
$6 trillion added to the debt
43 months of 8-10% unemployment
Credit rating downgraded
Record numbers on the dole
Is that the best he can do?
We wish he WOULD do what’s best for America. He’s too busy doing what’s best for the cause of growing government at the expense of Americans.
Obozo: Failure.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 12th, 2012
9:28 pm
gm never could bring himself to admit that it was the Islamofascist terrorists who caused 9/11.
Typical of the America-hating Democrat party.
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
9:31 pm
To the thousands of scientists around the globe, including those in the US Armed Forces, commissioned to find solutions to the problem, I guarantee you is not dead last.
But I’m sure that Kim Jong-Il agrees with you that it is of no importance…
Li'l Aynie
September 12th, 2012
9:32 pm
This is the stupidest article Kyle has ever posted!
Blame Obama for the actions of a frenzied mob in Libya? Maybe it was climate change, but most likely it was provoked by a movie intended to insult Muslims and their religion. The movie was bankrolled by a dozen or so Jewish-American radicals intent on demonizing Islam. Hate-mongering of that sort is illegal in Israel, by the way.
So, tell us Kyle, where should America “stand”? How about standing tall and proud but not arrogant, being fair and honest, hunting down terrorists and their protectors, defending our interests, and supporting human rights and world peace? Sounds just like the Obama foreign policy!
Hillbilly D
September 12th, 2012
9:34 pm
I believe there probably is climate change going on. As to how much if it is natural and how much of it isn’t I don’t know and don’t believe anybody else does either. Does that make me a North Korean?
Dusty
September 12th, 2012
9:36 pm
Whew
Amvet is trying to link Republicans to North Koreans.
I realize that he posts from the lower levels of illegitimate mud buckets but that one is 100% propaganda proof and totally exempt from reason
‘Oh well, standard brew from Jam Vet of far fetched fields of self importance. There he blows!!
Linda
September 12th, 2012
9:36 pm
Dog Barker@8:39, First you insult me by re-posting @ 8:39 what I said @ 8:33. For your information, most women don’t ever forget anything. Zilch! Nada! I suspect that you have had a few relationship issues, so let me give you some advice, that coming from from a mature, experienced lady. Don’t ever assume that a woman forgets anything. Some do. Most of us don’t. Got it?
Second, don’t ever insult a lady. You do know the difference between a woman & a lady, don’t you? Evidently, not. Don’t ever call a lady a “con.”
Third, don’t ever insult mothers. Our son, close to 30, has never had a cavity.
Get over your vindictiveness. If you can’t debate the real issues, get off this blog. You will never be able to intimidate women, ladies, mothers or conservatives with your “moves,” which I find highly insulting.
Del
September 12th, 2012
9:36 pm
Long live global warming, long live climate change…$hit none of these bumper stickers are firing up the masses, so what can we call it next. These damn deniers are really pissing me off.
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
9:39 pm
Dusty, the facts are the facts.
Ignorance will only get you so far in this life.
But who cares? It’s not as if the GOP and the DPRK are gonna stop the rest of an enlightened planet from trying to find the answers!
Like I said to Linda, it is high time that you joined in that effort…
@@
September 12th, 2012
9:40 pm
AmVet:
Are you a fan of Cap & Trade?
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
9:43 pm
No, of course not. Cap & Trade is a nonsensical non-answer to the problem.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
September 12th, 2012
9:51 pm
http://washingtonexaminer.com/how-the-media-turned-obamas-foreign-policy-bungle-into-a-romney-gaffe/article/2507779#.UFE6trKPW8A
When Romney gave a press conference Wednesday, the questions focused on whether it was appropriate for him to criticize Obama at the time he did. Romney’s responses didn’t really matter, because reporters had already decided their narrative. Obama did not take any questions in his own press conference moments later.
In 2004, John Kerry routinely attacked President Bush’s handling of Iraq when things weren’t going well in the country. And the media dutifully reported on Bush’s foreign policy blunders in Iraq. But now, instead of scrutinizing Obama’s handling of a foreign policy crisis, the media has decided that the real story in Egypt and Libya is a Mitt Romney gaffe.
Dusty
September 12th, 2012
9:53 pm
JamVet,
I have no desire to penetrate the dark smog of misinformation that surrounds you, The rest of the planet may be seeking enlightment, but you are far off on Mars.
Please don’t overload your circuits of information. The three street lights of Doraville might go out. .
Del
September 12th, 2012
9:54 pm
Solving problems isn’t worth a $hit, perpetuating problems particularly false problems is where its at for Dems. Perpetuating problems without viable solutions is far more effective for Democrats since for them it’s all about getting elected/reelected. Solving problems for Democrats isn’t a priority but convincing those who’ll buy into it that false problems indeed exist is what keeps them in office.
Linda
September 12th, 2012
9:55 pm
JamVet@8:40, Since you mentioned the Navy, what is the highest level of CO2 considered safe on a submarine? How does that compare with those levels in our atmosphere? Have you really studied the science or are you just accepting what you have heard in the corrupt alphabet media? Do you ever question what is reported as fact?
Don’t feel bad. My husband & I initially believed in the junk science. I have spent countless hours trying to ascertain what global warming is all about. My degree in science helped. It’s the greatest hoax ever brought on global residents.
Even if you believe that the globe is warming, that the warming is caused by man, surely it’s a stretch for anyone to believe that career, professional politicians in DC can “fix” it by trading carbon credits & burying carbon dioxide in the ground at the same time the fast food restaurants are adding it to soft drinks.
@@
September 12th, 2012
9:58 pm
AmVet:
That’s good to know. The carbon market over in Europe is on the verge of collapse. It’s always beem a scheme that would create a new bubble through carbon trading derivatives speculation. Funny that Al Gore would concoct such a diabolical plan. I thought it was all about the environment with him.
schnirt
I don’t know of anyone who’s opposed to alternative energy sources. It’s just gotta be affordable. The $50,000 Volt isn’t affordable. Let the private sector handle it.
I’m assuming you’ll be O.K. if they make a profit off their endeavors? No reason to get into business if there’s no profit in it. It’ll require profit to grow the industry.
You do want the industry to grow, do you not?
No more Solyndras. No government subsidies.
Del
September 12th, 2012
10:01 pm
Time to mosey…y’all have a great evening. I’m out…Taps.
Linda
September 12th, 2012
10:01 pm
JamVet@8:57, That’s one of the reasons Jon Huntsman is not a presidential nominee. I would lift up my degree in science from one of the largest universities in the Southeastern US to his qualifications anytime.
bluecoat
September 12th, 2012
10:02 pm
Hoe with an ax sounds dangerous-TD done lost all his goodness.Where we stand? Who knows we did not support our old friend Mubarak.
Hillbilly D
September 12th, 2012
10:04 pm
Funny that Al Gore would concoct such a diabolical plan. I thought it was all about the environment with him.
The environment is always better…….if you have a lot of money, so he was looking to make his environment better. Go up to Tennessee and talk to the old folks about Al, Sr. The acorn didn’t fall far from the tree.
The $50,000 Volt isn’t affordable.
According to things I’ve heard and read, from what I consider to be reliable automotive sources, GM loses over $35K on every Volt they sell. Not a workable solution, in my opinion.
cc
September 12th, 2012
10:08 pm
Del @ 8:59 pm:
“Obama looked like a weak apologist and an incompetent ass this morning”
So? That’s what he is . . .
JamVet @ 9:10 pm:
“The election is as good as over now…”
You’re absolutely right, the Kenyan is finished!
Towncrier
September 12th, 2012
10:15 pm
Good piece, Kyle. I likes especially this statement: “That, 11 years to the day after 9/11, we still have people who believe these extremists need a reason to be mad at us.” You cannot reason with a mob or terrorists, and those that imagine you can are deluded.
Towncrier
September 12th, 2012
10:19 pm
“We stand in the post apocalyptic landscape capped off by the “greatest foreign policy blunder in modern American history”. (hat tip the combat veteran Chuck Hagle, R – Nebr.)”
Gee…here I was still thinking it was the Vietnam War. Thanks for straightening me out, JV.
MarkV
September 12th, 2012
10:21 pm
Mitt Romney and Kyle Wingfield, two of the people who have shown no decency the day the US was attacked abroad.
Towncrier
September 12th, 2012
10:22 pm
“I think the verb “said” is bit too mild to describe Jam’s diatribe above, Finn. “Well vented” or “Well spitted” might be more appropriate.”
LOL – that is a funny remark.
Linda
September 12th, 2012
10:22 pm
bluecoat@10:02, Don’t you dare use my phrase without paying some money to my cause. Hoe axe is my patented phrase for Obama’s, the Democrats’ & , of course, the UN’s cap & trade debacle that is bankrupting our country & the world, for that matter.
Towncrier
September 12th, 2012
10:24 pm
“JamVet: So, we’re back to “blame Bush”? Got it. And, assuming you’re talking about Romney’s comments: What, exactly, did he say that qualifies as “depraved”?
That would be anything he said, Kyle. Come on, smarten up
@@
September 12th, 2012
10:27 pm
A real Catch-22.
EU Gropes — in Vain — for Carbon Price Sweet Spot
@@
September 12th, 2012
10:29 pm
Dog Bark:
That wasn’t my post. It was a namejacker, you dingleberry.
Maybe YOU!
Linda
September 12th, 2012
10:30 pm
Kyle, I think Dog Bark@10:25 just went too far. I’m out of here.
@@
September 12th, 2012
10:31 pm
I’m outta here too. Not because of Dog Barf though.
It’s my bedtime.
JamVet
September 12th, 2012
10:33 pm
Linda, it’s all good.
You are brilliant, everyone you disagree with is not and the United States military and 98% of the climatologists from the world’s most prestigious scientific organizations are all a bunch of misguided, globally warmed commies, socialists and Marxists.
Great American, you are.
And Del and Dusty are reduced to sniping and cc is in denial about Romney’s upcoming McCaining.
The GOP nightmare continues.
Sweet dreams, all…
@@
September 12th, 2012
10:34 pm
Oops! Did it again.
Dog Barks.
schnirt
Towncrier
September 12th, 2012
10:36 pm
“Also, of course we know where America stands when the likes of Condoleezza Rice is in charge: Ready. Fire! Aim…and throw in a little waterboarding while you’re at it. She shouldn’t be speaking at party conventions. She should be relaxing in a small cell in The Hague for her part in violating the Geneva Conventions. For the record, I’m not trying to be provocative. Simply put, she’s a war criminal.”
And an accomplished pianist – you left that out. And, of course, the part about her amazing rise to Secretary of State (the first such African-American to do so) from Birmingham where a classmate of hers was killed in a church bombing (but maybe that event is what turned her into a “war criminal”).
Hey (tell me true) if she is a war criminal (for “water boarding”), what in the world was LBJ – Stalin reincarnated? Or just one of the “War Pigs” Black Sabbath sang about?
Oh, and news flash: the Geneva Convention does NOT technically cover terrorists (unless you are a liberal and want to extend the Constitutional rights of Americans to non-citizens in the world, wherever they might be).
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
September 12th, 2012
10:43 pm
Dog – The next time you contribute anything of substance to the conversation will be the first time you contribute anything of substance to the conversation.
Just sayin…
Towncrier
September 12th, 2012
10:43 pm
“Kyle, you should be vary familiar with hate. It’s the driving force of the GOP these days. How dare you try to label all Muslims as “they hate us.” You sound like any other semi-literate red neck around here that passes of fear and hate as justifications for racism, bigotry or homophobia.”
Is this satire, Kyle? Otherwise, the unintended irony is astounding – to from calling you a bigot to actually being one in the space of one paragraph. Now THAT is talent.
Hillbilly D
September 12th, 2012
10:47 pm
PROVE IT………..
Kyle told us the other day that the post in question was a name-jacker, so consider it proven.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
September 12th, 2012
10:47 pm
An airburst cruise missile about, oh, let’s say, two hundred meters away from the US Embassy in Cairo right now would serve notice to a bunch of bloodthirsty savages that if you want it, we got it.
Have some.
But, unfortunately, we have a spineless koward in the white house, so we fiddle.
Towncrier
September 12th, 2012
10:51 pm
“America does not STAND for Bush’s or Condi’s policies anymore– OK? War-mongering and nation-building (or “spreading democracy” as the Cons prefer to call it) is no longer the automatic response to the problems in the Middle East. Diplomacy and compromise are now the policies of America — but I understand your confusion Kyle, because that’s what Romney likes to call taking “an apology tour”… to hell with the whole “diplomacy” thing, I guess!”
Wait…no…are you…one of those 9/11 conspiracy believers? You know, that GWB caused the single greatest attack on America soil to go get us some oil? And how is the old “diplomacy and compromise” thing working out these days? Looks like the “Arab Spring” has sprung and there is now less queziness over the Middle East than ever. Theocratic democracy is NOT, after all, an oxymoron.
WiseJustModerate
September 12th, 2012
10:52 pm
Man up Kyle. Don’t hide behind some abstract question about where America stands. Where do you as an American stand? Are you ready to enlist or at least pay more taxes so others can back up another round of “bluster and blunder”? Freedom is not free you know.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
September 12th, 2012
10:54 pm
Dog – I’m surprised you can spell “substance.”
Towncrier
September 12th, 2012
10:57 pm
“I am not projecting anything other than fact. Spreading hate and lies only encourages psychopaths to act on it. Fact: Georgia, despite modern times, is filled with a (thankfully) dying breed of red necks, racists, bigots and homophobic brainless wonders. I guess you don’t get outside of Atlanta too often. Their xenophobia gave us this wonderful new policy at the DMV. ”
And this from a poster sporting a moniker of “Gravy Train”. Again, the unintended irony is remarkable. This just HAS to be satire. Please tell me it is.
redneckbluedog
September 12th, 2012
11:01 pm
Romney’s “Mccain Moment”……
I wonder if Mitt is going to “suspend his campaign” to “work on Libya”…!?!?
C’mon Mitt….Lose like a man…!!!!!
Towncrier
September 12th, 2012
11:02 pm
“Any fair look at history will show that Christians have dished out much more persecution than they have received through the years. Richard Feynman, for example, was prohibited from joining any non-Jewish fraternities at MIT and was almost barred from acceptance to Princeton in the 1930s due to being Jewish. To his credit, he never whined about the discrimination he faced in college and early in his career.”
That would not be true. It might be true perhaps of self-styled Christians, but surely you must not suppose that everyone who calls himself a singer is really one.
Towncrier
September 12th, 2012
11:10 pm
“The German census of May 1939 indicates that 54 percent of Germans considered themselves Protestant and 40 percent considered themselves Catholic, with only 3.5 percent claiming to be neo-pagan “believers in God,” and 1.5 percent unbelievers. This census came more than six years into the Nazi era.” Nazi Germany was a far more Christian country than the United States is today. In fact, “According to a 2007 survey, 78.4% of adults identified themselves as Christian.”
Well I know at least one person now who has never apparently read the New Testament. Why don’t you check out this verse and see if you can figure out why I pointed you to it: Acts 11:26? Hint: do you really think Biblical faith is some kind of mental assent to a proposition?
Towncrier
September 12th, 2012
11:12 pm
“Like it or not, the words spoken and written by our diplomats are considered representative of the administration. And the idea that this is a “death knell” for his campaign exists only in the minds of liberals intent on wrapping up this contest well ahead of time.”
I would agree.
WiseJustModerate
September 12th, 2012
11:12 pm
Kyle, let me make it simpler for you. In your informed opinion, which of these are friends and which are foes? No nuance please, just put “friend” or “foe” next to each one. Remember now, “unambiguously and clearly” is how it’s done.
Benghazi
Cairo
Jerusalem
Damascus
Russia
China
Iraq
Afghanistan
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
September 12th, 2012
11:17 pm
Can you say “Hostage Crisis?”
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
11:21 pm
HD–Just wanted to update you on the Phillies. 3.0 games out of the wild card now with 19 games left to play. Doesn’t look like such a long shot now, especially since they just won 7 in a row.
Move over Miracle Mets……
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
11:22 pm
In your informed opinion, which of these are friends and which are foes?
Simple—Put “friend” next to Jerusalem, and “foe” next to the rest.
Next question??
Towncrier
September 12th, 2012
11:30 pm
“How can any self-respecting American still support the Romney/Ryan ticket for November?”
It is called a choice between the lesser of two evils and it is frequently what we are presented with in presidential elections. My alternative is to not vote.
“So I would like to know why you Cons hate America so much that you would stand by this terrible slate of candidates now?”
See above. I plan to vote for Romney because 1) he is likely to nominate justices for the SCOTUS who don’t view the Constitution, unlike every other legal contract, as a “living document” – a mentality that has given us, for example, widespread pornography in the guise of “free SPEECH” (you have to love the wonders pornography alone has done for marriages in America) and a generalized right to privacy not actually found in the Constitution, 2) he actually has considerable executive experience coming into the job and 3) he can, in my opinion, do no worse than Obama in handling the economic mess we are in and may well do a whole lot better – I do not believe he is a spendthrift as was GWB and he operated within a framework in MA that required he balance the budget (so the concept is not foreign to him).
David R. Boag, DDS
September 12th, 2012
11:31 pm
Buckeye @ 12:41 pm
“@Bruno, a Bible burning wouldn’t motivate me to violence, but I’m sure there are people in this country that are the opposite, heck there are people that kill doctors who perform abortions.”
So Buckeye, I’m confused. In the case of violence by others in response to Bible-burning, then, since you, yourself, are responding appropriately, do you condemn the others who do the violence or the Bible-burners for causing the violence?
Hillbilly D
September 12th, 2012
11:32 pm
Bruno
They can’t stay hot forever.
I’m sticking with my prediction, come hell or high water.
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
11:35 pm
That would not be true. It might be true perhaps of self-styled Christians, but surely you must not suppose that everyone who calls himself a singer is really one.
Crier–”Christians” like to make a lot of noise about how persecuted they are. In the early, early days of Christianity, prior to Constantine, there was some truth to that statement. Since that time, however, the roles have been reversed, with the abuse given far outweighing the abuse taken. I particularly laugh at the contrived “War on Christmas” since the fact is that Christmas is completely non-Biblical to begin with.
Per your point about self-identification, the same could be said over on the Muslim side. By definition, terrorists who target innocent people can’t be true Muslims, since the Q’ran specifically prohibits such a tactic. However, we in the West still identify them as Muslim terrorists since they identify themselves that way. As such, it’s just as fair for the Christian faith to have to take responsibility for all of the atrocities committed in the name of Christianity.
independent thinker
September 12th, 2012
11:37 pm
Romney campaign goinjg down like the Titanic.Most Repubs running from his statements today. Even liyan Ryan jumping ship and running ads to keep his house seat! Those tax returns come out and all that will be left is air bubbles.
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
11:38 pm
I’m sticking with my prediction, come hell or high water.
I’m not making any predictions, HD. Just having fun watching them try. I haven’t watched hardly any baseball this year except for a few Braves games. I hardly recognized any of the names on the roster. In the old days, you could count on basically the same guys year after year. Now, almost half the positions turn over each spring.
Towncrier
September 12th, 2012
11:39 pm
“Gov. Romney seems to have a tendency to shoot first and aim later, and as president, one of the things I’ve learned is you can’t do that,” Obama said during an interview with CBS. “It’s important for you to make sure that the statements that you make are backed up by the facts and that you’ve thought through the ramifications before you make them.”
Nice quotation, JV. How about applying Obama’s words to his own conduct to see how he fares in this regard? If you are honest, you will admit that he is guilty as charged on more than one occasion.
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
11:47 pm
do you condemn the others who do the violence or the Bible-burners for causing the violence?
David–I doubt if you will get a straight answer from any of the Libs to that question. Earlier today, Buckeye, MarkV and JDW all seemed to put a substantial part of the blame for the attacks on the Americans on some inflammatory anti-Muslim film, and felt that it was appropriate that we condemn the film as a nation. In light of their double standard toward Islam and Christianity, however, they would likely condemn the Christians while excusing the Muslims.
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
11:49 pm
BTW, David, I work in healthcare as well, and agree with your remarks yesterday about people being responsible for their own health care costs. I’ve written at length in the past about the many flaws of Obamacare.
Hillbilly D
September 12th, 2012
11:50 pm
Bruno
Don’t think you were here earlier in the day but many of us viewed the film as just an excuse. They were going to do it anyway, and the film was just something they came up with for justification. And as I said, my feeling was that doing it on 9/11 was basically just an extended middle finger.
Towncrier
September 12th, 2012
11:51 pm
“Per your point about self-identification, the same could be said over on the Muslim side. By definition, terrorists who target innocent people can’t be true Muslims, since the Q’ran specifically prohibits such a tactic.”
I disagree. Have you read the Koran? It is an unstructured, historically vague, rambling and highly repetitive text. But that is not my point. There are perhaps a score of passages commanding that non-believer (”infidels”) be either harmed or killed. These are open-ended and universal commands (not time specific commands that apply to specific people as in the OT). Any serious believer who believes the Koran is the inspired word of God cannot just dismiss these verses (since they do not readily lend themselves to figurative interpretations). Now, the prohibition against killing innocent people may apply so long as they are not infidels. So, in short, I would say that those who do NOT follow the Koran closely in every way is a nominal Muslim and not the reverse.
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
11:52 pm
Don’t think you were here earlier in the day but many of us viewed the film as just an excuse. They were going to do it anyway, and the film was just something they came up with for justification.
I was here earlier, and agreed with that sentiment, HD. The roots of the discontent throughout the Middle East have basically nothing to do with religion, IMO.
Hillbilly D
September 12th, 2012
11:54 pm
I was here earlier, and agreed with that sentiment, HD.
Oh, well, the memory is the second thing to go, they say. Sounds like it’s time for me to call it a night.
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
11:58 pm
Now, the prohibition against killing innocent people may apply so long as they are not infidels.
TC @ 11:51–Just like the Bible, the Q’ran is supposed to be taken as a whole. So while there are certainly many verses condemning infidels and encouraging poor treatment of them, there are just as many verses which forbid harming non-combatants, especially women and children. A well-known Q’ran verse states that “God does not love the aggressor”.
(not time specific commands that apply to specific people as in the OT)
Also, I have to disagree with your “time specific, people specific” qualification of OT verses. There are many, many OT verses which encourage poor treatment of sinners and non-believers. They’re easy to find.
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
11:59 pm
A song for you on the way out, HD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-YWQ-9jT8E
Bruno
September 13th, 2012
12:04 am
Gotta hit the road…..
independent thinker
September 13th, 2012
12:14 am
When a U.S. Embassy gets stormed by protesters overseas, it’s usually a matter of public concern. It might occasion headlines and commentary. Correction, that should read except when the president is a Republican.Then the President;s integrity is not questioned Look at the list of such incidents when Bush was president.
June 14, 2002, U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan
Suicide bomber kills 12 and injures 51.
February 20, 2003, international diplomatic compound in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
Truck bomb kills 17.
February 28, 2003, U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan
Gunmen on motorcycles killed two consulate guards.
July 30, 2004, U.S. embassy in Taskkent, Uzbekistan
Suicide bomber kills two.
December 6, 2004, U.S. consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Militants stormed and occupied perimeter wall. Five killed, 10 wounded.
March 2, 2006, U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan
Suicide car bomber killed four, including a U.S. diplomate directly targeted by the assailants.
September 12, 2006, U.S. embassy in Damascus, Syria
Gunmen attacked embassy with grenades, automatic weapons, and a car bomb (though second truck bomb failed to detonate). One killed and 13 wounded.
January 12, 2007, U.S. embassy in Athens, Greece
A rocket-propelled grenade was fired at the embassy building. No one was injured.
July 9, 2008, U.S. consulate in Istanbul, Turkey
Armed men attacked
consulate with pistols and shotguns. Three policemen killed.
March 18, 2008, U.S. embassy in Sana’a, Yemen
Mortar attack misses embassy, hits nearby girls’ school instead.
September 17, 2008, U.S. embassy in Sana’a, Yemen
Militants dressed as policemen attacked the embassy with RPGs, rifles, grenades and car bombs. Six Yemeni soldiers and seven civilians were killed. Sixteen more were injured.
Yet you never saw Democrats condemning Bush as a weak leader over any of these tragedy’s, or trying to use such a trategy for political gain.Nobody published editorials asking “where does he stand” I guess that;s because Bush;s middle name was not Hussein.
Towncrier
September 13th, 2012
12:33 am
“Also, I have to disagree with your “time specific, people specific” qualification of OT verses. There are many, many OT verses which encourage poor treatment of sinners and non-believers. They’re easy to find.”
Well, let me just say that I have more than a passing familiarity with the Bible. I would say your claim of there being verses “which encourage poor treatment of sinners and non-believers” is mistaken. I suppose a superficial reading of the OT might lead to such a conclusion, but bad “treatment” of people was never “encouraged” but is ALWAYS commanded for a specific reason (unlike in the Koran) – adultery, murder, theft, idolatry that led to child sacrifice and the like and NEVER arbitrary. And it is often (in the case of God) after a substantial period of time (except when He himself was in the presence of Israel – there is a difference between sinning just after you walked through the Red Sea and sinning when you have never seen direct evidence of God; the accountability is much less). That is why God tells Abraham his offspring will not enter the promised land for another 450 or so years (because the sin of the people there had not “reached its full measure”). As for the treatment of non-believers, you might do well to read books like Jonah. There is never in the OT or NT a requirement that people believe in a doctrine (such as is the sense you get in the Koran) so much as they acknowledge their wrongdoing, repent of it and seek to have a heart like God himself – full of mercy, compassion and love (hence Jesus’ contrast between the Good Samaritan and other religious types).
The reason I come at this from a different angle than you seem to is because I do not suppose Biblical faith is merely a mental assent to a proposition or set of propositions (the group of self-identifying “believers” who “talk the talk” but make little or no effort to “walk the walk” – that would probably include the majority of religious people in America). You seem not to have understood this by making broad sweeping statements about (self professed) “Christians” based on their observed behavior . The Koran has, in my view, a VERY vague and contradictory moral code – it is nothing like the Bible in that regard. I came away from reading it feeling like the thing I needed to do most is believe that Allah is the one true God and that Mohamed was his prophet. If I did that, then all would be right for me (and, of course, I am speaking only of the Koran and not all of the religious teachings that have come since).
Towncrier
September 13th, 2012
12:38 am
Bruno, will catch up on this later.
ODD OWL
September 13th, 2012
2:14 am
Mittens Romney is quick draw Mcgraw… He shoot from the hip or is it the lip… Romney is impulsive, indecent and lacks dignity… Mittens is judgemental but he doesn’t have very good judgement, which causes Americans to question his character… I think that the tea party controlled Romney/Ryan Republicans, the heretic, Koran burning Preacher, Pastor Terry and the Israelis Prime Minister Benjamin Natanyahu and the Zionist occupiers have entered into some kind of conspiracy to stir up trouble in the Islamic Middle East and causes trouble for President Barack Obama… These extreme, right wing neo-con conspirators are attempting to influence the presidential elections here in America… Romney is un-American…
waterstim
September 13th, 2012
2:47 am
Jay Bookman loves Obama. Obama can do no wrong to Jay Sandusky Bookman.
Bobby
September 13th, 2012
2:58 am
I know what Ronald would do..just saying
seabeau
September 13th, 2012
5:43 am
Mr. Obama! On the anniversary of 9-11,where were the Marine guards who protect our consulates? You have failed your duties as Commander-IN -Chief! And your failure has led to the deaths of US Citizens! And to think we could have had a real war hero and a statesman who had more then two terms in Washington as President! Instead we get a Community Organizer from the most corrupt city in the US!
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 13th, 2012
6:20 am
How much cash did Obozo get in last night’s Vegas fundraiser? Good thing nothing much was happening in the world yesterday while he was yukking it up with his fatcat cronies.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 13th, 2012
6:22 am
Why were our embassies so unprepared?
Charles
September 13th, 2012
6:24 am
Jimmy Carter’s second term in office (a.k.a. the Obama Administration) … Mike (you can’t comment on my cartoons because I’m a spineless Liberal) Luckovich and Jay (Blame Bush!) Bookman should be so proud.
Joel Edge
September 13th, 2012
6:29 am
“They just hate us. Period.”
And the sooner the American people understand this, the better. Good article, Kyle.
JamVet
September 13th, 2012
6:33 am
One more observation about the Libyan embassy murders.
Kyle wrote ” Like it or not, the words spoken and written by our diplomats are considered representative of the administration.”
What horsehooey.
Are you guys SO desperate that anybody at anytime in anyplace who is remotely connected to the federal government speaks for the president?
Sophistry at its worst.
But this sums it up perfectly. (hat tip Normal)
http://cheezburger.com/6580836608
Now. be the good little Republicans First, America Second folks that you are and go back to covering up for your liar candidate.
I’ve got places to go, people to meet and things to do!
Later…
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 13th, 2012
6:47 am
AmVet at his apologist worst (as usual).
When you are a diplomat in the service of the United States of America, what you say or write IS representative of the administration that put you in that position.
As such, you either stand for ALL our ideals, or you don’t. You don’t get to pick and choose which ones you’re going to support. And while you’re tweeting solely about religious tolerance, you might wish to remember that without freedom of speech, you don’t get freedom of religion. One begats the other.
JDW
September 13th, 2012
7:22 am
@Bruno…”Earlier today, Buckeye, MarkV and JDW all seemed to put a substantial part of the blame for the attacks on the Americans on some inflammatory anti-Muslim film, and felt that it was appropriate that we condemn the film as a nation. In light of their double standard toward Islam and Christianity, however, they would likely condemn the Christians while excusing the Muslims.
Absolutely incorrect. Acknowledging that the film was inflammatory and designed to provoke the response does not excuse the action.
My issue is with those that expect the Middle East to conform to our ideals…they do not and will not. The sooner you, the Right Wing and Kyle get that through their head the better. There is no path to American style Democracy in the Middle East not today not tomorrow and not next year. If we are to succeed in creating allies in the region it will be long hard slog, country by country and as much as we abhor the act of the terrorists they will continue so long as we are there.
Our choice is to accept that reality and continue to engage or attempt to live in isolation.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 13th, 2012
7:33 am
“My issue is with those that expect the Middle East to conform to our ideals”
I don’t give a crap if they accept our ideals.
But they’d damned sure better respect our sovereignty. Let’s see how long they survive in isolation from the rest of the civilized world when they don’t get our aid, our goods and our income.
MadMax
September 13th, 2012
7:38 am
Since these demonstrations were known about in advance, I wonder if they were included in the security breifings. If they were, did our president read them and understand the issues or did our intelligence community let our president down?
Uneducated, uninformed, vote against my best interest, Howdy Doody
September 13th, 2012
7:48 am
Let’s just hand this over to an international relations expert like Sarah Palin or Rush Limbaugh or Bill OReilly or Sean Hannity or even Mitch Romley. Mitch Romley gets my vote.
Don Abernethy
September 13th, 2012
7:51 am
We should treat Muslims in this country just like Saudi Arabia treats Christians.
David R. Boag, DDS
September 13th, 2012
7:52 am
Independent Thinker @ 12:14 am
“When a U.S. Embassy gets stormed by protesters overseas, it’s usually a matter of public concern. It might occasion headlines and commentary. Correction, that should read except when the president is a Republican.Then the President;s integrity is not questioned Look at the list of such incidents when Bush was president.”
Not true, IT. But the difference, and the reason for that additional scrutiny of our president is that the premise that progressives used to justify his election as far as foreign policy is concerned goes was that Mr. Obama’s more conciliatory manner would somehow stop the radical Muslims from hating us. That it would supposedly remove their reason for executing heinous acts like this. It was argued by conservatives that these radicals do not need a reason, and that they hate us because of who we are and what our country stands for. And now when we say that we told you so, it’s a bitter pill to swallow, so progressives deflect and try to compare what we are doing to what we do to W, when it was not we that made the assertion in the first place. We are simply pointing out the folly of the premise justifying Mr. Obama’s foreign policy. And if if you think that this calls for MORE conciliatory talk now, I suppose the only question left is how many times do we have to do this before we actually once again stand against it?
independent thinker
September 13th, 2012
7:55 am
Okay so who is really behind this movie since there is no proof that an Israeli made it with rich Jewish donors? Funny that the only person promoting it is the Rev. Terry Jones and its main emphasis is oppression of Christians in Egypt. I assume all you Obama haters believe it was proper to change the actors script and put it on you tube in Arabic. Funny how Mitt’s campaign is based on a book titled “No Apology”.
Coincidence?I remember George W doing a whole lot of Muslim appeasement after 9-11- why was that????????
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 13th, 2012
7:58 am
“Okay so who is really behind this movie since there is no proof that an Israeli made it with rich Jewish donors?”
Who cares?
In case you forgot this, “independent” “thinker”, the very first amendment in our Bill of Rights is Freedom of Speech.
Doug
September 13th, 2012
8:03 am
So just wondering hear what the response will be if I call Christianity a cancer and Jesus a fraud. If it is true “they just hate us” can you explain why they just hate us?
tiredofIT
September 13th, 2012
8:05 am
Netanyahu is a yahoo
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 13th, 2012
8:14 am
“So just wondering hear what the response will be if I call Christianity a cancer and Jesus a fraud.”
The response from me would be: “Aren’t you glad you live in a country that allows you the freedom to say anything, no matter how stupid, and still be alive to hear how stupid you were?”
“If it is true “they just hate us” can you explain why they just hate us?”
They hate us because we are better than them, we are richer than them, we are more advanced socially and morally than they are, and they hate us because we KNOW all those things. They hate us because we dare to treat women in our society as equals. They hate us because we achieved something in 200 years that they couldn’t do in 2,000 years – an advanced civilization and an enlightened society based largely on freedom. They hate us because their biggest leaders would be hard pressed to be elected dog-catchers in any town in America.
And I don’t give a crap if they hate us, as long as they respect our sovereignty.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 13th, 2012
8:15 am
Netanyahu is a LEADER.
Something you wouldn’t recognize based on this administration.
Robert
September 13th, 2012
8:29 am
Mr. Romney once again showed he is not ready to be Commander In Chief. He quickly attacked President Obama’s response before he had all the facts by relying on false information regarding the daily reports meetings implemented in the George W. Bush administration reported by the right wing press which Romney thought were still in use by President Obama. In reality, according to the Washington Post “Obama didn’t “attend” these meetings, because there were no meetings to attend: The oral briefings had been mostly replaced by daily exchanges in which Obama reads the materials and poses written questions and comments to intelligence officials. This is how it was done in the Clinton administration, before Bush decided he would prefer to read less. Bush’s results — Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction, and the failure to find Osama bin Laden — suggest this was not an obvious improvement. “
MarkV
September 13th, 2012
8:36 am
Bruno @11:47 pm
“Earlier today, Buckeye, MarkV and JDW all seemed to put a substantial part of the blame for the attacks on the Americans on some inflammatory anti-Muslim film, and felt that it was appropriate that we condemn the film as a nation.”
Bruno lying again. It appears to be his standard MO.
LeeH1
September 13th, 2012
8:37 am
Like he has done many times in the past, Romeny condemns the president, but doesn’t say what he would do instead. This is adolsecent thinking. It is easy to crticize, but a presidential candidate needs to put forth exactly what he would do instead, and how it is different from the president’s actions. Romney won’t do this.
Like many previous times, all he says is that he would do it differently, but trust him when he won’t say what he would do. I suspect Romney doesn’t know what he would do, but is making a lot of bluster and pro-American pronouncements. That is the same sort of stupidity that got us involved in Iraq under that fool George W. Bush. Here we go again.
At least reporters should ask Romeny what is his diplomatic solution, instead of what is his military solution. He may have one, but no clue about the other.
fair and balanced
September 13th, 2012
8:41 am
On Bush’s attempts to sympathiize wit Muslims right after 9-11:
“”"”"”"”"”In his socks, as is Muslim practice, Bush padded through the ornate mosque on Washington”s Embassy Row and heard stories from his hosts about Muslim-American women afraid to leave their homes for fear of prejudiced backlash after last week”s terrorist strikes.
“Those who feel like they can intimidate our fellow citizens to take out their anger don”t represent the best of America, they represent the worst of humankind and they should be ashamed of that kind of behavior,” Bush said, his back to the brilliantly tiled prayer alcove facing Mecca.
He quoted from the Quran and fervently defended the Islam faith: “Islam is peace. These terrorists don”t represent peace, they represent evil and war.”"”"”"”"”"”"”
http://www.michigandaily.com/content/bush-visits-mosque-urges-tolerance
What would Mitt say????????????????
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 13th, 2012
8:43 am
They hate us because we are better than them, we are richer than them, we are more advanced socially and morally than they are, and they hate us because we KNOW all those things. They hate us because we dare to treat women in our society as equals.
That’s delusional at best.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 13th, 2012
8:44 am
“but is making a lot of bluster and pro-American pronouncements”
Yeah, ’cause we sure don’t want our Presidents to be pro-American, now do we?
Oh, and Hillary showed more brass ones with her statement than the President did in his yesterday.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 13th, 2012
8:45 am
“That’s delusional at best.”
Finn McCool: Anti-Aericanism at it’s best.
MarkV
September 13th, 2012
8:47 am
Since yesterday morning we have seen Libyan people apologie for the atrocity, thank America. We have heard Senator McCain talking about how Libyan people love America and are grateful to us.
What a contrast with the stupid way Kyle started his article:
“Yesterday, militants in that city — including, perhaps, some of the more extremist elements of the rebels whose cause we took up last year — showed their gratitude by killing four Americans, including our ambassador to Libya.”
As if he or anybody expected a small group of hateful militants, who do not represent the population of Libya, to share the sentiments of the majority.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 13th, 2012
8:50 am
It is amazing that the same people who reviled John McCain 4 years ago revere him after one comment today.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 13th, 2012
8:56 am
Oh, and if the Libyan “people” were so damned enamored of us, why didn’t they bother to adequately protect our diplomats?
You have the anniversary of the deadliest terrorist attack in history against America, and you don’t beef up security? Was there no “chatter” regarding a potential coordinated attack against American interests? It just happened? Really?
Gullible doesn’t begin to describe the mentality this morning.
MarkV
September 13th, 2012
8:57 am
It is amazing that people who do not understand the meaning of words like “revere” insist on using them anyway.
massachusetts refugee
September 13th, 2012
8:59 am
the rominee’s BS will be exposed during the debates – if he shows up.
Del
September 13th, 2012
8:59 am
JDW@7:22am says…My issue is with those that expect the Middle East to conform to our ideals…they do not and will not. The sooner you, the Right Wing and Kyle get that through their head the better. There is no path to America
I think you’re ASSsuming what Kyle and other conservatives have in their heads. We view radical Islam as an enemy who hates us to the extent of wanting to destroy us. If it was only a condition of them hating us there wouldn’t be a problem but unfortunately their hate has manifested into murderous attacks over several years. We do not expect radical Islam to embrace Democracy our values much less Judeo Christian beliefs, which they despise and are committed to extinguish throughout the world. The problem I have with the left and this leftist administration is their belief real or otherwise that by turning are backs on the very real dangers to our national security presented by radical Islam we will live in peaceful harmony with all Muslims worldwide thus the dangers will cease to exist. Peaceful co/existence with these people is an impossibility.
JDW
September 13th, 2012
9:00 am
@Tiberius…”But they’d damned sure better respect our sovereignty. Let’s see how long they survive in isolation from the rest of the civilized world when they don’t get our aid, our goods and our income.”
That is a perfect example of why most Americans can’t relate to other cultures…it is all about you isn’t it Tiberius. You sound like a spoiled 5 year old taking his ball and going home. BTW have you noticed…it is we that need their goods…oil.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 13th, 2012
9:01 am
It is amazing that people who don’t understand that a small sampling of “Libyan people” apologizing and thanking America doesn’t mean a majority share their views, but insist on spouting that nonsense anyway.
kayaker 71
September 13th, 2012
9:02 am
The foreign policy of any country is usually half perception and half action. How you perceive a leader of a country is usually based on his actions and his responses. If you feel that he will respond to your actions and that response is not in your best interest, you will hesitate. If you feel that he will do nothing but words and platitudes, it emboldens you. If you think for one minute that the protests of these sheep in Egypt, Syria and Yemen are the acts of people spontaneously responding, you need a lesson in foreign policy. All of these protests are carefully orchestrated, planned events done with the blessings of their leaders. It has already been reported by CBS and Reuters that the security details leading our people to a “safe” place compromised our people and led to their deaths. Bozo needs to grow a pair and make the consequences of an action such as this too hazardous to the perps for them to do it again. They have killed a foreign ambassador, for Christ’s sake. You don’t let this slide and virtually ignore it. These people understand one thing….. power and he ability to use it. Nothing else. If we appear weak, they will feel free to do it again and again. And weakness is something that they exploit every time they can. So, Mr. President, grow a pair and show these idiots that they can’t push around the strongest country on the planet.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 13th, 2012
9:08 am
JDW, we don’t need their oil. It is merely convenient to buy it from them because we have a failure of leadership in multiple Presidencies that refuse to use our OWN energy sources that are abundantly available here.
In short, JDW, they need our aid, goods and income far more than we’d need their oil if this President and his predecessors had any intelligence whatsoever when it came to our national security and our own resources.
If you want to deal with America, then you’d damned well better understand what we stand for first (not that you’d understand what we actually do stand for). If you don’t like it, then we’ll find someone else who will.
Because they need us a whole heck of a lot more than we need them.
MarkV
September 13th, 2012
9:08 am
kayaker 71 @ 9:02 am: “They have killed a foreign ambassador, for Christ’s sake. You don’t let this slide and virtually ignore it.”
kayaker not paying attention to the news? Making an ass of himself by making assumptions? Lying about what is happening?
Been there
September 13th, 2012
9:16 am
You leftists (absent a backbone) people — when all this is going on thousands of miles away you think . . . that is there and we are here!! I wonder what you would do if the radical muslims had an up rising in this country and killed women and children. Would you be willing to sit there then and belittle those who would make a statement (a real statement) now in the events taking place thousands of miles away. I doubt it. You would be begging the government to step up and “protect” you!!! Oh but they will provide little protection because they will have cut our military not to the bone but through the bone!! You will want your gun carrying neighbors to help protect you!!!
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 13th, 2012
9:16 am
You Bookman rejects can apologize for America unmolested for a while.
Meanwhile, try to figure out how you people can grow up and live in a country for your entire lives, and not know what it truly is to be an American.
At least that’s one thing I see that separates you liberals from the protesters in the Middle East. At least they have pride in their nation and are willing to stand up for it.
xxx
September 13th, 2012
9:16 am
It’s time for people and places to start disappearing in a few countires.
kayaker 71
September 13th, 2012
9:23 am
MarkV, 9:08,
Yeah, I’m keeping track of the news. Saw Bozo’s and Hillary’s speeches yesterday. My “assumptions” are based on past actions, nothing more. If successful foreign policy for this administration means taking out a few al Qaeda goons with drone missiles, we are certainly behind the curve. Our political correctness keeps us from even calling these idiots the enemy. Showing our love for these poor misunderstood sons of Allah is more important than saving out foreign diplomats and protecting our embassies. This whole thing will end up like the Cole and other provocations…… lots of rhetoric and little action.
Del
September 13th, 2012
9:25 am
The facts surrounding this killing of our diplomats in Benghazi should require a full congressional investigation. There’s been disturbing reports that these attacks on our Embassies and consulates in Egypt and Libya were coordinated as part of a plan to assassinate Stevens and the others. There’s been reports that Libyan security forces actually participated in the plan and pointed out the escape route from the consulate. Hillary Clinton stated yesterday that Libyan security forces suffered casualties in their efforts to assist our diplomats attempting to escape. There’s been a report that when the CIA learned about this threat potential before the attacks occurred they we’re told by the administration not to take any further action or it might upset our relationships with the Egyption and Libyan government. There’s a need for an investigation to separate facts from fiction and learn the how, what, who and why associated with this murderous attack on America.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
September 13th, 2012
9:26 am
The reports of Romney’s demise were a bit premature it seems. Rasmussen daily tracking has him up by 1 today. He is hanging tough against a determined media and an ineffective opponent.
kayaker 71
September 13th, 2012
9:31 am
So, Bozo’s “bounce” is gone. Back to dead even. Not so good for an incumbent less than 60 days from a national election.
DawgDad
September 13th, 2012
9:31 am
I see reports this morning Al-Qaida is expressing support for the rebels in Syria. So I have to ask, whose side are we on? If there are multiple factions fighting each other and the established government, what should our policy be?
The Obama administration supported and encouraged and enabled the “Arab Spring”. He owns the outcome, just like they’ve hung Iraq around Bush’s neck forever. It doesn’t take much sense to understand this would not turn out well for America and the West. One wonders what they teach at Harvard.
We are saddled with an Administration that openly alienates and attacks (politically and economically) peaceful, law-abiding, taxpaying native-born Christian citizens, and when some obscure nobody opens their mouth in exercise of their right of free speech, silly and offensive as their speech might be, the Administration publicly disavows our Constitutional rights, effectively inviting the radical Muslim terrorists to use the speech media as a cover for massive anti-American demonstrations and violent political actions. Very, very sad state of affairs, and it’s disheartening to see so many Americans supporting this Administration and their own destruction.
iggy
September 13th, 2012
9:37 am
Hmmm…I understand those peace loving isLambs are now storming our embassy in Yemen. I think its Yemen…at any rate MoHamEds chosen ones are at it again.
Del
September 13th, 2012
9:39 am
DawgDad,
When we have 50% of the American public receiving federal government financial assistance in one form or the other you see the socialist plan of this administration along with the leftist Democrats in congress, successfully unfolding.
MarkV
September 13th, 2012
9:39 am
DawgDad @ 9:31 am
“…the Administration publicly disavows our Constitutional rights”
Lying is certainly in vogue today.
Del
September 13th, 2012
9:44 am
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
Appears that the lefts celebrations may have been a bit premature.
cc
September 13th, 2012
10:05 am
MarkV @ 9:39 am:
“Lying is certainly in vogue today.”
Of course! You are blogging here today, aren’t you?
Rush
September 13th, 2012
10:07 am
Good to see Finn on the blog with typical frequency…..didn’t add anything to dispute Tiberius just a comment that it was delusional. I would hazard to guess the US standard of living is greater than that of Egypt, Yemen, and Libya. Actually not a hazardous guess at all…..now get back to studying Finn so you can solve even more of life’s problems.
MarkV
September 13th, 2012
10:09 am
cc @10:05 am
Had I known you were blogging today as well, I would have added “stupidity” to “lying.”
Bruno
September 13th, 2012
10:12 am
Rafe The reports of Romney’s demise were a bit premature it seems. Rasmussen daily tracking has him up by 1 today. He is hanging tough against a determined media and an ineffective opponent.
kayaker So, Bozo’s “bounce” is gone. Back to dead even. Not so good for an incumbent less than 60 days from a national election.
Del Appears that the lefts celebrations may have been a bit premature.
Rafe, kayaker and Del–All I’ve heard from the Lefties this past 6 months is how Obama is going to sweep the Electoral College, that Romney should start giving his defeat speech now. I’m no political genius, but I don’t see it that way. Simply put, Obama hasn’t earned a second term. IMO, the only thing that might save him is promising more Free Stuff to folks.
Chip
September 13th, 2012
10:13 am
It’s 1979 all over again… Muslim fascist killers running loose, and a wimpy weakling president here who can’t or won’t do anything because he’s too busy hating America.
All of this has happened before… only it’s worse now because the stakes are so much higher. If this country is foolish enough to give this moron a second term, then the urban city dwellers who vote for him will deserve the death and destruction that will come to them on our own soil.
cc
September 13th, 2012
10:14 am
MarkV @ 10:09 am:
. . . and that from the leftists ‘brain trust’ explaining the mentality of the whacky left!
Kyle Wingfield
September 13th, 2012
10:16 am
Now I’m curious, Dog Barks: How exactly did you still have the text of the comment made by the name-jacker, when I removed it from the blog Monday morning?
Never mind. You’re outta here.
iggy
September 13th, 2012
10:22 am
Uh oh…somebody done been caught. LOL!!
Jed Rothwell
September 13th, 2012
10:26 am
You wrote: “As they did so, some member(s) of the embassy’s staff wrote repeatedly on Twitter — the social media platform that was widely used by young Egyptians during their uprising against Hosni Mubarak’s government — that the U.S. government condemned … the movie.”
That is not true. They wrote on Twitter 6 hours before the attack.
Obviously the U.S. government condemns the movie. Who wouldn’t condemn religious bigotry? No one excuses the attack. No one can excuse an event 6 hours before it happens!
You and other right-wing commentators keep repeating this claim. Do you have a time machine? Do you think the Embassy does? I’ll bet Romney wishes he had one, so he could retract without anyone noticing.
XOXO
September 13th, 2012
10:32 am
If this is who the DNC is consorting with then all Americans, Democrats should be concerned…
kayaker 71
September 13th, 2012
10:39 am
Bruno, 10:12,
Romney 320 electoral votes….. Bozo 218. Count on it.
They BOTH suck
September 13th, 2012
10:44 am
kayaker
I will take that bet for a beer and come see you in Macon to collect.
JamVet
September 13th, 2012
10:45 am
Zooks!
Tibs starts out with his very first Day 2 post obsessing over me and my useless opinions???
Good gawd man, what is it going to take for you to FINALLY get enough self-discipline that you can scroll on by my posts without making snarky personal insults?
Is that day ever gonna come, tibs?
After repeated red cards, most people learn from their mistakes, but apparently you are not one of them!
Sad. And funny!
Much too busy to play with you folks today, keep the unprovoked personal insults to a minimum, OK?
mercenary76
September 13th, 2012
10:48 am
hydrogen bombs on their capital cities and smaller nuclear weapons on military targets , cluster bombs on other populated cities should send a very clear message to the world that america does not appreciate their diplomats being murdered . put tactical nuclear devices in the other embassies around the world with a deadman switch attached , if our embassies are overrun or destroyed then they lose a city .
Del
September 13th, 2012
10:50 am
Bruno, At this point neither candidate appears to have the big Mo. It may get down to the “get out the vote” metric that will determine the outcome. I agree with those that say Romney needs to present a cogent plan for turning around the economy the average American can understand and buy into. Hopefully, he’s holding that plan until such time the Obama campaign has little time to discredit it and also catching Obama with no clear counter plan of his own, which to date he really hasn’t put on the table.
They BOTH suck
September 13th, 2012
10:56 am
Del
If he clearly states those plans during the debates or during that time frame, he can win.
If Romney stays status quo, I wouldn’t put any money on Romney. But in politics, we have a long way to go.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
September 13th, 2012
10:58 am
The reports of Romney’s demise were a bit premature it seems. Rasmussen daily tracking has him up by 1 today.
Rasmussen always has the Republican in front. They had McCain in front last time right up until he lost. All the other polls have Obama comfortably ahead.
And as I have stated many times. The electoral map is where Romney has an even bigger problem.
He must win all the toss ups to win. Obama only needs one or two.
ATLien
September 13th, 2012
10:58 am
that’s wishful thinking Del. Romney has no plan. He’s hoping the business cycle just improves under his watch, if he were to win somehow. The fact that you and others would trust him with your vote despite not having displayed ANY plan whatsoever speaks to your blind ideology. Seriously he hasn’t told you one concrete thing about his economic plan
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
September 13th, 2012
11:00 am
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map_no_toss_ups.html
This is what your electoral map will most likely look like on Nov 6th.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
September 13th, 2012
11:01 am
Notice none of the southern states went for the black guy.
Shocking I know.
MarkV
September 13th, 2012
11:11 am
Kyle never retracted the charge of moral equivalence, the big, bold face lie. Both Secretary Clinton and President Obama in their statements emphasized that there was not and could not be any justification for the attacks.
iggy
September 13th, 2012
11:12 am
mercenary76
September 13th, 2012
10:48 am
I like it.
iggy
September 13th, 2012
11:13 am
“Notice none of the southern states went for the black guy.”
Clearly a bigoted statement which should read…Notice none fo the southern states want for the democratic party guy.
See previous elections stats.
You clearly have presented your bigoted views, my friend.
NEXT!!!
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
September 13th, 2012
11:15 am
You clearly have presented your bigoted views, my friend.
No
Just pointing out that racism is alive and well in the south.
If you think it isn’t you are a fool.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
September 13th, 2012
11:16 am
Notice none fo the southern states want for the democratic party guy.
The south used to vote Democrat.
Right up until LBJ signed the Civil Rights Bill.
The south then went Republican pretty quick.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 13th, 2012
11:26 am
“Rasmussen always has the Republican in front. They had McCain in front last time right up until he lost.”
Actually, Cheesy, according to a comparison I saw yesterday, they were the most accurate poll along with Pew regarding the 2008 election.
Del
September 13th, 2012
11:28 am
TBS,
I don’t think the debates will turn much for either candidate. I know in the past they have, Kennedy vs. Nixon and Reagan vs. Carter but typically those who view debates have already chosen a candidate they plan to vote for. Unless one of them makes a huge gaffe and I don’t expect to see that from either one, you’ll only see the pundits making judgement calls. Timing is everything and I think Romney should unveil a clear plan for job creation and tuning around the economy around the last month of the race. He should invest in ad after ad in the swing states detailing the plan and challenging Obama to do likewise. Obama attacking Romney on his moral character hasn’t worked for Obama and Romney attacking Obama only on the economy hasn’t worked for Romney.
iggy
September 13th, 2012
11:28 am
The South is anti-discrimination. You dont understand that civil rights, quotas etc are discriminatory.
NEXT!!!
iggy
September 13th, 2012
11:32 am
Voting for someone because they are black is no reason to vote for them. This being the case and part of your argument the we could state that since the South didnt vote for the “black guy” then the rest of the Country did vote for the black guy that the Country, other than the South is bigoted ie they voted for the black buy because he is the black guy.
NEXT!!
They BOTH suck
September 13th, 2012
11:34 am
Del
Romney has the “war chest” to use now that the conventions are over.
We will not see much of it because GA is in the bag, but the swing states are probably already seeing ad blitzes, which will really ramp up in the coming weeks.
I could be wrong but I think OH will be the “Waterloo” for either Romney or Obama.
While there are other paths each could still take to victory, I highly doubt the winner will not have OH in his camp.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 13th, 2012
11:36 am
My father in law voted for McCain in 2008 and was planning to sit this one out. But after the asinine comments from the Bully in Chief, he says if it helps keep that guy out he will vote Obama.
1776
September 13th, 2012
11:39 am
We currently “stand” as doing the bidding of the Globalist Elite & their agenda. Where we should be standing is under the Constitution…NOT getting involved in these endless foreign entanglements. We should extract all troops (+ funding) from the middle east & let the muhamedans & z10n1sts fight it out amongst themselves.
Linda
September 13th, 2012
11:41 am
Kyle@10:16, Thank you! Some liberals just don’t understand the difference between rights & privileges.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 13th, 2012
11:56 am
Rights and privileges, Linda?
They don’t understand the difference between leadership and sound bites!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 13th, 2012
12:01 pm
Florida, NC, and VA are southern states. Didn’t VA go for the black guy? I know NC and FL did.
Rush
September 13th, 2012
12:03 pm
Cheesey:
This racism thing…Is it a one way thing? Are you saying white people believe in the superiority of their race over blacks? Could the same thing be said in reverse? Inquiring minds want to know.
PROUD NAVY VET
September 13th, 2012
12:10 pm
All I can say is no person outsiude the government is privy to what is truly taking place. No one has any idea!! Why do people who have never been in that environemt feel they are qualified to pass judgement? Let me tell you this, because ki have been there, the U.S. already knows who they are, where they are, where they are going and a plan is already in place to kill them. Plain and simple. As you can see today, everybody is keeping their mouth shut as they should. Everyone learned a lesson yesterday. So sit back, chill out and let our military do what they do. hese events unfolding can not be stopped because look at who we are dealing with. The Midde east is the Middle East. anything we did and are doing means nothing. It makes no difference who is in the oval office. They are already dead. ((% of you have never served and you haqve no idea of how things are done. If I need my car worked on I don’t go to a plumber. Support all of our citizens working around the world do their job. just shut up and support. It’s gonna get a lot worse, believe me. It’s just getting started. SHUT UP!!
Linda
September 13th, 2012
12:13 pm
The day after the DNC, the Democrats were having a fire sale on all their left-over gismos, gimmicks & gadgets at their souvenir shop In Charlotte. All of a sudden, their phones started ringing off their waistbands, calls coming from all over the Middle East for orders of cases of bumper stickers. Extra money was paid for fast delivery by the end of the 1st week in September.
What a surprise it was to watch on TV our embassies being attacked & our citizens being murdered with RPGs, rocket-propelled grenades & AK47s with those bumper stickers attached to them that read: GM IS ALIVE & OBL IS DEAD!
Jose
September 13th, 2012
12:14 pm
OBAMA BY THE NUMBERS:
4 YEARS
$5+ TRILLION IN NEW DEBT
14+% UNEMPLOYMENT
100+ GOLF ROUNDS
150+ FUNDRAISERS ATTENDED
1 JOBS COUNCIL MEETING IN 2012
md
September 13th, 2012
12:14 pm
Condemning the movie ahead of time? There in lies the problem, we have 300 million free speaking Americans and we are supposed to condemn everything they say or do in order to not upset the bad guys???
Makes no sense…….I do believe Hitler was able to get as far as he did because of all the tip toeing.
iggy
September 13th, 2012
12:20 pm
BTW…The State of NC has gone Red. I guess Obamas/clintons words of inspiration failed in NC, anyway. Long way to go before Nov.
Dusty
September 13th, 2012
12:31 pm
Reading the posts this morning, it seems to me that everyone here needs to read and reread some of the latest reports, consider the time line, and understand that some Libyan security guards were also killed. This is not to excuse terrorism. It is to understand better how to fight it.
Americans are usually fair and indicting a whole country for the actions of a terror fed mob is not fair. The tragedy of our ambassador’s death is tragic and maddening. He died of asphyxiation caused by smoke inhalation in the attack.. He is said to have been working very hard helping Libya develop a democratic government. Perhaps his foresight was somewhat better than those here..
We do not need to develop our own mob reaction.
As to the president and Romney, neither is very pleasing. Romney ’s words came before he knew of the attack, so they seemed inapporpriate when they appeared at a time of tragedy. President Obama took off for a fundraiser and would not meet with the leader of Israel, the only truly stable country in the Middle East. That too seemed inappropriate during a Middle East conflagration.
“Things” just never go right, do they? .
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 13th, 2012
12:40 pm
BTW…The State of NC has gone Red.
That’s kind of an after the fact statement, isn’t it? Polls don’t tell you the entire truth. NC still has to watch Romney snake his way around the debate questions – unwilling (or unable) to answer anything with specificity.
Jefferson
September 13th, 2012
12:41 pm
Sometimes you are even more shallow than I give credit for.
xxx
September 13th, 2012
12:42 pm
PROUD NAVY VET , why don’t you forward your biased screed to the parents of the deceased so they realize they can “just sit back and chill” while making funeral arrangements. Useless tool.
Del
September 13th, 2012
12:43 pm
This really demands a congressional investigation. Hillary and Obama jumping on the movie motive is falling apart.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/13/consulate-attack-planned-as-2-part-militant-assault-libyan-official-says/
Dr. Frank Romano
September 13th, 2012
12:49 pm
Dear Friends,
You are welcome to join us for the November Interfaith Freedom Marches:
Jenin,West Bank, Wed., Nov. 21, 2012, 2:30 pm, Main Square, Abu Baker Street
Ramallah, West Bank, Friday, Nov. 23, 2012, 12:30 pm, Manara Square
Jerusalem, Tuesday, Nov. 27, 2012, 2:30 pm, Damascus Gate, Old City
My friends, it’s no longer possible to say, “Ah, that’s the other side of the World, what does this place have to do with me, my family, my world….”
The people in the Holy Land, Muslims, Jews and Christians alike, are enshrouded by deep suffering, terrible restrictions on freedoms, limitation of circulation, restricted access, unfair confiscation of land, etc. Whenever that happens in the World, we all suffer because I truly believe, my friends, we are all connected.
When they are free (of suffering, etc.), only then can we be free!
As such, the occupation of the West Bank must end as a precursor to peaceful coexistence.
It’s time we all do something about it, in an effective, non-violent way.
Let this march be a precursor to freedom through love and understanding by bringing all people together in the cosmic light, as brothers and sisters and as children of the creator, showing the world that all people want peace in Israel and Palestine.
Dr. Frank Romano
A Land Day Organizer: March 30, 2012, Qalandia Checkpoint
Professor: University of Paris
Member of the California and French Bars
getalife
September 13th, 2012
12:52 pm
Kyle,
We stand united to show patriotism and resolve like ion the Senate floor yesterday.
Where does romney stand? He attacked America and stands with aq like a traitor.
“You are with us or against us” and the war on terror is not over.
Follow your party’s lead Kyle and cons.
@@
September 13th, 2012
1:03 pm
Now I’m curious, Dog Barks: How exactly did you still have the text of the comment made by the name-jacker, when I removed it from the blog Monday morning?
My thoughts exactly, Kyle, but then the kinder, gentle side of me kicked in…
maybe he/she is just a pervert who likes to save those thoughts for cold and lonely nights? Problem is, my namejacker is also a pervert.
For everyone’s benefit, I can leave or change my name. I would rather not do the former and refuse to do the latter.
His/her problem with me should not become everyone’s problem here.
Let me know if there’s anyway I can help, Kyle.
md
September 13th, 2012
1:04 pm
“Clinton called the video “disgusting and reprehensible,”"
Funny how those in power worry so much about offending the bad guys…….Bill Maher offended many with his movie on religion and it is aok………screw the bad guys. If they don’t like what is being said they can choose to ignore it or respond to it and then we should respond in kind.
md
September 13th, 2012
1:08 pm
Dr Frank……in a gesture of good faith Israel unilaterally pulled out of Gaza only to have Hamas move their rockets that much closer to the border……..what kind of rationale would expect them to fall for that a second time??
Darwin
September 13th, 2012
1:11 pm
Where does America stand…in the Middle East? For Oil and Israel. Now do you understand why they hate us?
md
September 13th, 2012
1:11 pm
“Where does romney stand? He attacked America and stands with aq like a traitor.”
Geez get, thanks for the chuckle…….Romney attacks an apology statement that has since been disavowed by the administration and only one of them is attacking America??
Do you guys ever think things through???
md
September 13th, 2012
1:14 pm
” For Oil and Israel. Now do you understand why they hate us?”
That oil has worked for both parties for decades…….as for Israel, if we truly stand for freedom and democracy then we must stand beside the only stable democracy in the ME.
iggy
September 13th, 2012
1:15 pm
“Clinton called the video “disgusting and reprehensible,””
Deep down where no one can see where no one really talks, clinton is happy about the attacks. Clinton is a multi-lateralist and while this incident may stir some regret in the overall scheme of things it helps in knocking the USA down a notch or so and that is what clinton is all about.
Same goes for carter.
iggy
September 13th, 2012
1:16 pm
We have bought and paid for the oil hundreds of time over via foreign aid. The oil is ours and we will have it.
DawgDad
September 13th, 2012
1:35 pm
“Americans are usually fair ”
Really? You obviously aren’t paying attention to the MSM or the daily Democrat talking points, or listening to the speeches at their convention, or Obama and Hillary, or reading Leonard Pitts, Mary Sanchez, Paul Krugman, et. al. in the paper every day, or listening to the constant whining from the global warming and environmental crowd.
A whole bunch of teachers don’t think Rahm Emmanuel is “fair”, and a whole lot of Americans don’t think the Chicago teachers are fair. Are public unions “fair”? Fair to whom? Are Obamacare mandates “fair”? Are Obamacare waivers fair? Are attacks on Chik-Fil-A or Big Gulps fair? Is it fair to invite millions of people to live in our country as non-citizens? To take jobs from our citizens? To use public services? Is it fair I pay more tax than you do? Less? Hmmm. I’d say there is a general perception NOTHING in America is fair, listening to the MSM and Democrats anyways.
iggy
September 13th, 2012
1:38 pm
And nothing should be fair. Fairness is a symtom of communism.
Mr. Thomas Anthony Jones, SR
September 13th, 2012
1:42 pm
Only a fool goes meddling in his neighbors’ affairs when his own home is in disarray. We have homelessness, hunger, poverty, racism, prejudice, bias, bigotry, people who need Medical Care, millions of children who drop out, illiteracy, to many people in prison, corrupt Georgia Judges, failing infrastructure, and pollution and we dare tell anyone else how to run their own country. If i was a foreigner and some Fool American told me how to run my country I was Kill the American and burn his body. That is how to deal with Meddlers!
Kyle Wingfield
September 13th, 2012
2:12 pm
Ok, everyone who jumped on Romney for his statement: What’s worse, that or the White House now having to walk back the president’s own remark that he doesn’t consider Egypt an ally?
Shoot first, aim later much?
Poll Position: How should Obama respond to embassy attacks? | Kyle Wingfield
September 14th, 2012
12:07 pm
[...] of you took my first post on the subject to imply a military action is needed. As I tried to make clear in the comments, [...]
Oblama
September 14th, 2012
12:11 pm
Kyle – Obama stands where his handlers put him – just like most politicians. Check the polls, stick your finger up in the air to see which way the wind blows and “evolve”. As a military and foreign policy expert Obama makes a decent class action suit trial lawyer. Not blaming Obama for the crazies in the middle east that want to destroy everything that isn’t islam but his apologizing for murders committed by these fanatics makes us look weak. The middle east has always and will always be in turmoil until the day of reckoning – fast approaching. I don’t know if Obama is a Christian but he says he is and he needs to start praying (along with us) overtime. There’s not much to do in the desert but ride camels over sand dunes and start wars. the desert is a very boring, boring, boring place to be.
Oblama
September 14th, 2012
12:14 pm
Trying to reason and negotiate with these fanatics is like trying to reason with an insane person or a brain dead zombie for Obama.
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September 15th, 2012
4:38 pm
Rather amusing idea
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September 16th, 2012
2:31 am
I about it still heard nothing
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September 16th, 2012
3:00 pm
In my opinion you are not right. I am assured. Write to me in PM, we will talk.
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September 16th, 2012
6:49 pm
I can not with you will disagree.
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