On writing on 9/11, on and on
I’m not going to lie: I have a hard time writing about 9/11.
This is (for the most part) a political blog, but politics seems like a very small topic for a day like today. 9/11 is a messy day, not just because it’s still full of sorrow and anger for so many people who lost loved ones that day or any of the hard days that followed, but because still it is not a closed case.
On a micro level, there are still discoveries, such as the note that a Connecticut man dropped from a window on the 84th floor of Two World Trade Center that day, and which reached his family just before last year’s decennial remembrance, and which finally made it into the press this week. A fresh wound for them and, albeit on a much smaller scale, for the rest of us, too.
On a macro level, there’s a war in Afghanistan that began shortly thereafter and continues to this day. There are still tens of thousands of Americans fighting in that war, being shot at by our enemies and our alleged friends. Their mission, their fate, are still deathly important to them and their families, and should be to the rest of us, too. But to talk about those things today feels off-putting, because it invariably means diving into the politics involved in making decisions about the war and thus getting away from the unity of the day, and it feels cheap, because it’s too easy to talk about those things today and ignore them for the other 364.25 days of the year. (I am far too guilty of that myself.)
On a personal level, I feel like most people are out of things to say by now, myself included. I was working in a carpet mill that day, a month away from starting my job with the Associated Press, and didn’t even hear about the attacks until someone from the office part of the building told me in the break room at lunchtime. I still didn’t comprehend what had happened for another four hours, when I finally got a chance to see a television and the images of what had happened and was still happening, images and events that were nearly impossible to imagine before 9/11 and impossible to forget ever since.
What I remember most is the visceral reaction I and everyone else had, and that was best captured by people who spent that day capturing it instead of shuttling rugs around a mill. To this day, I prefer re-reading what was written then to almost anything written more recently. If you’ve never read Dan McLaughlin’s eyewitness account from back then, today’s the day to read it. For a longer treatment, Tom Junod’s 2009 exploration of the “falling man” photograph is haunting. Feel free to share others in the comment thread.
And feel free to share your own memories and thoughts, even the political ones. Heck, this is still a mostly free country. Just because I had to get this off my chest before getting on with the rest of my day doesn’t mean you have to do the same.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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263 comments Add your comment
H.E. Pennypacker
September 11th, 2012
11:50 am
Well said. I remember how, for a time at least, the country came together as one to reconcile what had happened, heal our wounds, and consider our response.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
September 11th, 2012
11:52 am
Had just walked into work that day. Remember the receptionist saying that a plane had hit WTC.
I figured it was a small plane and an accident and went about my day. Then I heard another plane had hit. Tried to get on cnn.com and couldnt. Site was down.
Thats when I knew something was up.
Can recall the incredible anger I felt most of the rest of that day and through the night.
Thank god we finally got out of Irag and Osama bin Laden ( the mastermind behind 9/11) is dead.
getalife
September 11th, 2012
11:59 am
We united after 9/11 then a Dem won and there was no unity after a collapse and getting obl.
Divided we failed.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 11th, 2012
12:02 pm
Glad Kyle doesn’t live in the Ireland of the 70’s, the mideast, African, or Asian countries during any of the past 40 years.
We would be having one of these remembrances every single day.
saywhat?
September 11th, 2012
12:06 pm
Today is my birthday. So at least for that, we can all be thankful and happy.
bloomberg troll
September 11th, 2012
12:08 pm
I just hope 9/11 remains a day of remembrance for everyone.
To remember the horror of the terrorist actions and the external (and internal) threats we face.
For the feelings and thoughts we had in the months after 9/11.
To remember all the lives lost that day, normal people with families.
And for the sacrifices made by members of the Armed Forces after.
9/11 will fade over time and become more history than memory. But I hope not yet.
Too many people have suffered from, and sacrificed for, 9/11 to be written off already.
Fred ™
September 11th, 2012
12:08 pm
saywhat?
September 11th, 2012
12:06 pm
Today is my birthday. So at least for that, we can all be thankful and happy.
+++++++++++++++++++
It depends. If you are not a hard right wing fanatic, all the Republicans will hate you. If you aren’t a Democrat all the Democrats will hate you.
I’m an Independent though so I say Happy Birthday.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 11th, 2012
12:09 pm
If W’s admin hadn’t been so totally caught off guard and then violently embarrassed by the fact they missed the boat, America probably wouldn’t have so totally collectively lost it’s marbles.
They were so embarrassed they sent this country reeling – color alerts moving up and down depending on the severity of W’s latest scandal, waterboarding, Gitmo, removing shoes at the airport, wire tapping civilians.
Fred ™
September 11th, 2012
12:20 pm
Wow Finn. You gotta do that on a remembrance thread?
getalife
September 11th, 2012
12:23 pm
The cons were scared to death of a small gang and overacted.
Our President crushed this small gang and took out their leadership.
He did not use politics of fear, he took action and focused on the enemy.
Instead of attacking him, the cons should praise these actions.
bloomberg troll
September 11th, 2012
12:24 pm
Oh yes.
USA! USA! USA!
bloomberg troll
September 11th, 2012
12:30 pm
Kyle. Thanks for the links.
1 more.
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/26/nyregion/26WTC.html
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 11th, 2012
12:34 pm
the administration’s level of inaction was so negligent that senior intelligence officials actually considered resigning, so as not to be in a position of responsibility when the attack took place:</i?
Officials at the Counterterrorism Center of the C.I.A. grew apoplectic. On July 9, at a meeting of the counterterrorism group, one official suggested that the staff put in for a transfer so that somebody else would be responsible when the attack took place, two people who were there told me in interviews. The suggestion was batted down, they said, because there would be no time to train anyone else.
http://www.salon.com/2012/09/11/911_what_bush_knew/
independent thinker
September 11th, 2012
12:36 pm
Over 2900 American civilians died that day and our president and his national security advisor were warned and lied about what they knew. Then our president read “My Pet Goat” while our country was being attacked. That’s what I remember. See article below of Tenet’s warnings to Condi, her distraction with other neocon priorities and what she failed to do when warned.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/30/AR2006093000282.html
And if you are going to defend her, tell us what the duties of a national security advisor are.
Ken
September 11th, 2012
12:37 pm
My son called me that day from Bahrain, where he had just joined his air squadron..next time I heard from him was during a refueling at Camp Rhino…worked for a NY based company, co-workers lost spouses in the WTC…worst day of my life…still remember the Islamic world dancing in the streets… some still get upset we have troops on the ground, but look at all the hard data we have captured from the laptops of those we kill over there that has prevented additional attacks on our soil- that’s the reason we must have a presence…anyone that thinks Israel didn’t know this was coming and held the info for their benefit is deluded. God Bless America!
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
September 11th, 2012
12:40 pm
…still remember the Islamic world dancing in the streets…
They weren’t all dancing.
The Muslims I know were horrified.
getalife
September 11th, 2012
12:43 pm
I will never forget the spontaneous reaction of people hitting the streets when our President announced they got obl. They chanted USA outside the White House.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 11th, 2012
12:43 pm
…still remember the Islamic world dancing in the streets…
which is on par with:
the thinking that Reverend Wright gave that exact same hate sermon every Sunday for 20 years, or around 1,040 straight sermons.
@@
September 11th, 2012
12:46 pm
…it’s too easy to talk about those things today and ignore them for the other 364.25 days of the year.
I was in lockdown with eight special needs kids that day. I couldn’t help but look to their innocence for comfort, wondering what the future held for them.
This is what I choose to remember about September 11, 2001:
While tragedy unfolded, life continued. It’s estimated that over 10,000 families in the United States welcomed a new baby into the world on September 11, 2001.
Carl Sandburg once wrote, “A baby is God’s opinion that the world should go on.”
getalife
September 11th, 2012
12:48 pm
Although your nominee ignored them, lets not forget there are 77,000 Americans still fighting in Afghanistan until 2014.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
September 11th, 2012
12:49 pm
Bush’s biggest mistake pre 9/11 was that he was still stuck ( much like Romney ) in a cold war way of thinking about foreign threats.
One of his biggest priorities pre 9/11 was the National Missile Defense system. Its what he and Rumsfeld wanted badly.
They weren’t looking in the right place.
@@
September 11th, 2012
12:55 pm
But to talk about those things today feels off-putting, because it invariably means diving into the politics involved in making decisions about the war and thus getting away from the unity of the day, and it feels cheap,
So true…as evidenced by some of the posts I’m reading.
Political opportunists! Not much to love there.
“Never let a serious crisis go to waste.”–Rahm Emanuel
cheep, cheep.
MarkV
September 11th, 2012
1:08 pm
This is a political blog, but what we need least today is to blame anybody in this country for the tragedy of 9/11. As far as I know nobody has ever presented evidence that any action of any American would have absolutely prevented it, or that inaction of somebody who should have acted was a unique and definite cause of it happening.
Class of '98
September 11th, 2012
1:09 pm
Beautiful day in NYC, but it was raining here in Atlanta. I was in inside sales with IBM at the time, and my boss, Cruella DeVille, insisted that we continue to make outbound sales calls to clients and prospects, as if ANYONE in the world wanted to discuss AS/400 hardware at noon on 9/11/01.
The internet crashed because the traffic was higher than ever, and about two dozen IBM’ers stood around a radio listening to AM750, trying to get updates.
What a terrible day.
Old timer
September 11th, 2012
1:14 pm
Still remember watching this and trying to explain to middle school age kids something that is unexplainable….and to reassure them the USA will stand stron….as all us grown ups were crying…
Old timer
September 11th, 2012
1:15 pm
Mark V and @@ …..Amen…..
antinewt
September 11th, 2012
1:17 pm
Like your 12:46 post @@.
Hillbilly D
September 11th, 2012
1:18 pm
As far as I know nobody has ever presented evidence that any action of any American would have absolutely prevented it, or that inaction of somebody who should have acted was a unique and definite cause of it happening.
Well said.
getalife
September 11th, 2012
1:20 pm
cons refuse to talk about w.
They called those that did not support the Iraq occupation unpatriotic.
I remember the w disaster.
I will never forget it and never vote gop.
Shawanda
September 11th, 2012
1:24 pm
What dismays me is that our government did not react appropriately, or very effectively, to the attack.
There was the understandable need to ‘do something’, but going to war in Iraq and Afghanistan missed the mark and did not get to the root of the problem. 9/11 was a criminal terrorist action, not a military one. The bad guys reportedly are situated across the globe. The way you eradicate a threat of that nature is with surgical incursions like the Navy Seal op that took out OBL, not by re-fighting World War II.
getalife
September 11th, 2012
1:24 pm
“As far as I know nobody has ever presented evidence that any action of any American would have absolutely prevented it, or that inaction of somebody who should have acted was a unique and definite cause of it happening.”
w ignored it and think a competent President would not and take action.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 11th, 2012
1:26 pm
First, it is disgusting that anyone would put a political attack on a day like today, on a blog which began on such a serious and thoughtful note. You SHOULD be ashamed of yourselves, but I don’t think that is possible with those that are doing so.
To Kyle’s column, I was at home that morning, and thankfully no longer traveling in a job that used to require a lot of air travel. Found out about 30 minutes after the first plane hit that my nephew was working and studying in the WTC area while in college, and waited frantically for hours to finally hear that he was safe and sound.
Haven’t flown since, and barring some family emergency, never will again. The over-reaction of so-called Homeland Security is not my cup of tea.
Class of '98
September 11th, 2012
1:26 pm
I agree about Muslims celebrating. It was rare, both here and abroad.
When we see Muslims burning the US flag or burning our presidents in effigy, keep in mind that is the equivalent of them seeing a film of a clan rally burning a cross. They are ignorant extremists, and in the great minority.
Footage of a dozen arabs laughing and dancing in the streets on 9/11 set back US-Muslim relations 20 years, and it is a shame.
It is similar to when the media reports on a hurricane. They will find a wind-tunnel between two buildings to exagerrate the ferocity of the wind. They do it because shock footage attracts viewers. Don’t let media footage of anything determine your opinion on any issue. Think for yourself.
Hillbilly D
September 11th, 2012
1:26 pm
Let if go folks, if for only one day.
Class of '98
September 11th, 2012
1:30 pm
getalife, the “intelligence” about an impending terrorist attack before 9/11 was incredibly vague. In my opinion the truther claims about US government pre-knowlede of, or even complicity in, the 9/11attacks makes birther claims seem credible, logical, and fact-based by comparison.
getalife
September 11th, 2012
1:32 pm
Yes, lets let it go for today.
I agree but know the cons are not able to do this.
Beyond the Middle of the Road
September 11th, 2012
1:33 pm
I thought the images of Palestinians dancing in the streets were deplorable and inexcusable. But it wasn’t so much a Muslim reaction as much as a nationalistic reaction by a group of people who despise both Israel and their closest ally, the United States. I sat all workday next to my friend and colleague of over ten years, a Sunni Muslim with a very long name but who we all called “Alee.” I assure you he’s a loyal, patriotic American and he was as shocked and saddened by the events of 09/11 as anyone. Just a few decades ago Christians rounded up about 6 million Jews and slaughtered them in concentration camps. No religion has a monopoly on good or bad behavior.
iggy
September 11th, 2012
1:38 pm
“What did he know and when did he know it?”
Whatever happened to her?
East Lake Ira
September 11th, 2012
1:39 pm
The picture that is slowly emerging about GWB and his administration is inexcusable and I for one will never forget that the Neo-Cons could have done something had they not already been focused solely on Iraq.
Their shameful response was the Patriot Act and an unprecedented level of spying on American Citizens within our borders.
Shame on all of them. Never forget, never forgive.
Del
September 11th, 2012
1:40 pm
Kyle thanks for taking this time for remembrance of those innocent non-combatant lives lost 11 years ago today.
I had just dropped my wife off at her office and I was returning to mine when the news came over the radio. Instead of going into my office I drove home and turned on the television. Couldn’t believe the re-runs of those Twin Towers being hit and the people in the streets. The country united in the aftermath of 9-11 but it didn’t last very long.
JDW
September 11th, 2012
1:40 pm
The week before 9/11 I was in New York. Busy week, had lunch at Windows on the World and at the time didn’t really think twice about it. Now I still have flashbacks.
On 9/11 was a Tuesday. Normally I commuted to Boca on Monday’s but because I had been travelling for a couple of weeks I went on Tuesday that week. I boarded at around 6:20am and we hit ground in Fort Lauderdale a little after 8 am. By the time I got to the rental car the radio had the news that a plane had hit the Tower…my first thought was one of those little one engine sightseeing planes had gotten too close and clipped the Tower. Then in a few minutes the second hit occurred and I remember thinking how surreal this was.
Got to the office and the TV was on and that’s when I found out what the scope was and also that we had two employees in the building. We did not find out they were safe until after the buildings came down. When that happened I was on a conference call with some of our Board. Their office was on Madison Ave and from their window they had an eyewitness view…damn spooky.
I went to NY 10 days later…I remember looking at the skyline coming in and thinking how weird it was. I still think that everytime I go.
For the next six months I was in crisis management mode as the event had a significant impact on our business so I didn’t do much reflecting. But since then I have.
I have never made the leap to say that The Bush Administration should have prevented the attacks but they certainly missed opportunity after opportunity to do so. I can’t say they were negligent but they were damn sure incompetent.
As for the aftermath, it is hard to imagine a poorer overall performance by an Administration. Everything from mismanaging our response to knee jerk Patriot Acts to Cowboy bluster to actually torturing Prisoners of War.
I morn the lives lost that day but what we really lost was our perspective as a nation…a perspective we have not since recaptured.
iggy
September 11th, 2012
1:45 pm
OH! I found it…
“Since 2005, Cynthia became a supporter and follower of Tun Dr. Mahathir Mohamad’s efforts to “criminalize war.” She has appeared in Kuala Lumpur several times, declaring that city the Peace Capital of the World. She recently reported on her experience in Libya in the “Arab Uprising” Conference organized by the Perdana Global Peace Foundation and served as an official observer at the historic Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Tribunal that, on 22 November 2011, found former President George W. Bush and former Prime Minister Tony Blair guilty of the crime of aggression and other crimes against the state and people of Iraq.”
Insanity run amok…
JamVet
September 11th, 2012
1:57 pm
My heart just grew very heavy reading your topic today, Kyle.
Thank you for making me remember that which I desperately would like to forget.
Though it is small consequence, at least we brought to justice the maniacal, murderous ringleader who orchestrated this despicable deed.
Just Saying..
September 11th, 2012
2:07 pm
For someone who thinks there’s little else to say, you’ve written a very eloquent piece, Kyle.
Thank you.
fair and balanced-
September 11th, 2012
2:11 pm
“”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"If any one person was responsible to prevent the 9/11attacks, it was the National Security Advisor, Condi Rice. She told the 9/11 Commission and the 9/11 Widows that the “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US” memo did not warn of upcoming attacks. The memo warned of preparations for hijackings and planned attacks inside the USA with explosives. The widows came to call her “Kindaliesalot Rice”.
The widows gave the 9/11 Commission 300 questions. They only got 27 answers. They gave Condi 65 questions and got 7 answers.
On July 10, 2001, CIA director George Tenet and Richard Blee warned Condi that al Qaeda attacks were coming in the next few weeks. Later they said that if she had acted on those warnings, 9/11 might have been prevented. Cofer Black said “The only thing we didn’t do was pull the trigger to the gun we were holding to her head.”
There were also warnings from 13 foreign countries, and 3 FBI offices. The UK, Germany, Italy, and Egypt specifically warned of aircraft as weapons. Russia warned of suicide pilots. Jordan and the Cayman Islands warned of attacks involving airlines. France, the UAE, Taliban, India, Morocco, and Argentina also warned. Israel warned of 19 terrorists inside the USA planning something big, and even named at least 4 of the alleged hijackers.
The video also provides support for the report in the German press that the August 6 PDB was actually 11-1/2 pages long, not the 1-1/2 pages we have been shown.
for viewing of video of your national security advisor lying under oath and admitting she did not do her job – http://www.alien-ufos.com/conspiracy-theories/50633-condi-lied-under-oath-9-11-widows.html
southpaw
September 11th, 2012
2:11 pm
Yes, lets let it go for today.
I agree but know the cons are not able to do this
————————————————————————-
Getalife, you’ve posted more political rants than anyone else on the blog today. When did you become a con? How about actually taking that advice?
More on topic:
My wife called me at work and told me an airplane had been hijacked and crashed into a building. Since my workplace is very near Peachtree-DeKalb Airport, I wondered if my building would be next. For the next couple of hours, I had one eye on my work and the other looking out the windows. Then my co-workers and I got orders to evacuate the building and go home. I didn’t have to hear that twice. Just before getting home, I stopped at a day-care place to check on my son. He was fine, but the receptionist asked me if I wanted to take him home. Since I didn’t have a car seat for him, that should have been an instant “no,” but I was so rattled, I needed a minute or so to figure out whether to take him with me. Finally I said I would come back later for him. A few minutes later, I saw my wife. She had NEVER before been so happy to see me safe.
JF McNamara
September 11th, 2012
2:14 pm
Tax Cut. Obama is Bad. Obama is Bad. Obama is Bad. Tax Cut. Obama is Bad. 91..what?
Just kidding. Nice article. It was a horrible day. Thanks for your diligence in remembering those who lost their lives that day. Even if its hard, we need to be reminded.
Gravy Train
September 11th, 2012
2:15 pm
Wow. I can’t believe Kyle isn’t somehow trying to use this as an opportunity to take yet another shot at the President. Yes, I remember the shock of 9-11. My heart goes out to the victims and their families. However, I also remember how the Neo-cons used the situation to launch a war on Iraq. I remember my anger at Bush’s response or lack there of. He sat there with his mouth open. He looked like he crapped his pants. I remember C. Rice telling Congress that going after suspected terrorists was like swatting flies. I remember the report that said Bush’s national security report paragraph ended up in the garbage. (apparently he is incapable of reading the real report so they condensed it to a single paragraph, as was the case for all of his briefings) I remember how Bush borrowed money from oppressive governments and sent checks out in an attempt to goose the post attack economy and garner more future votes. I will remember how the GOP uses fear and misinformation to control their sheeple. I will remember that fear and hate are the real enemies…just take a look at how the GOP is still using fear and hate as a platform.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
September 11th, 2012
2:20 pm
NEW YORK TIMES goes after Bush on 11th anniversary of attacks…
Still deranged, libbies?
@@
September 11th, 2012
2:24 pm
Too funny!
JDW:
I have never made the leap to say that The Bush Administration should have prevented the attacks but
What…the weight of your butt pulled you over the edge?
@@
September 11th, 2012
2:25 pm
DANG slanties!!!
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
September 11th, 2012
2:29 pm
I can never forgive the perpetrators for the cowardice of attacking a defenseless unprepared civilian target. Don’t mention understanding, pity, or mercy when talking about the justice administered to them.
Thanks to the military of this great country, most of those cowards that planned this, have been prevented from ever doing something so depraved again. God Bless the USA.
JDW
September 11th, 2012
2:29 pm
@@@…”What…the weight of your butt pulled you over the edge?”
Not over the edge yet…as of now I think he was incompetent not negligent…though a bit more of this stuff and I will go on over the edge.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/opinion/the-bush-white-house-was-deaf-to-9-11-warnings.html
@@
September 11th, 2012
2:34 pm
JDW:
Haven’t you heard…profiling is taboo among the left?
Would’ve had to ground all Arabs, pulling them in for interrogation based on the vagueries within the intelligence reports.
Imagine the outrage from your side.
kayaker 71
September 11th, 2012
2:37 pm
Let us never forget who perpetrated these attacks. They were Muslim fanatics who were, to a large part, Arab….. and from our “good friends and allies”, the Saudis. The same Saudis that run training camps for suicide bombers through their “Wahhabi” indoctrination school financed with government money. I sometimes think that we are in the wrong country in the ME.
InAtl
September 11th, 2012
3:01 pm
Gravy Train says: “Wow. I can’t believe Kyle isn’t somehow trying to use this as an opportunity to take yet another shot at the President”
…..and then proceeds to take yet another shot at Bush.
Gravy, getalife, East Lake Ira, Fair and Balanced, SHAME on you! You’ve really shown your lack of class and character for all to see today.
I don’t remember any rain in Atlanta on 9-11. In fact, I went to tennis practice, and when my husband showed up and informed us that the first tower had collapsed, we all left the court in a state of shock. We tried to decide if we should try to shield our four-year-old from the news, but there was really no way to do it; the story was everywhere all the time. I had nightmares off and on for weeks. One really sobering incident happened to me later that year. I’m a court reporter and had a witness show up to a deposition with a small child (which is not at all kosher for that setting). I made the best of it and did my best to redirect the child every time they’d come over and touch my steno machine. After the deposition the witness apologized for the child being there and told us that both her parents had been killed in the WTC. Boy, did I feel bad about all the irritation I had been feeling. Gave me a new perspective for sure. Prayers today for all those affected by that terrible attack.
JDW
September 11th, 2012
3:05 pm
@@@…”Haven’t you heard…profiling is taboo among the left? Would’ve had to ground all Arabs, pulling them in for interrogation based on the vagueries within the intelligence reports.”
Not making much sense there @@. I suggest you actually READ the link and get back to me. All we would have needed to do is have the good sense to keep them in custody once captured.
Bruno
September 11th, 2012
3:12 pm
Just my opinion, but I prefer to look forward in life, not backwards.
I’m sorry for the loss of life on that day, but I don’t see a lot of value in endless memorials. Rebuild the towers and move on.
HDB
September 11th, 2012
3:16 pm
Reflecting on today…as one who was on the INSIDE of the tndustry….
I can remember preparing to go to work at United Airlines when I turned on the news and saw Tower 1 in flames! First, I thought it was a small plane…but the hole was a bit larger than I thought; when the second plane hit, I could tell it was one of ours, Calling into the office, I discovered that the corporation was on lockdown because “two of our planes are missing”! Told my co-worker…”I know where ONE of them is!” From that point, air travel has not been the same! 25,000 people lost their jobs two weeks ;ater; many have yet to recover from what happened!
What really hurts is the good will from the rest of the world that this nation wasted! If our leaders had taken that good will to go after OBL rather than Saddam, we would have taken another step towards peace….and the US would have garnered a greater deal of respect!!
@@
September 11th, 2012
3:21 pm
JDW:
I’ve read the op-ed.
So now it’s O.K. to detain suspects without just cause…detaining them for an indefinite period of time!!??!! No specific date was given
I wish you people would make up your minds.
I’ll not engage in your blame game TODAY.
I’m passing you by.
InAtl
September 11th, 2012
3:23 pm
East Lake, stay classy. At least most of us now remember why we skip over your lame postings.
Kyle Wingfield
September 11th, 2012
3:25 pm
Everyone hyping that NYT op-ed today ought to read this response before going all quasi-Truther on us.
Kyle Wingfield
September 11th, 2012
3:26 pm
East Lake: One more response like that, and you’ll be off this blog for a long time.
massachusetts refugee
September 11th, 2012
3:28 pm
nicely written, kyle. this is still the saddest day of my 61 years that doesn’t involve immediate family. while a repeat seems unlikely (hey you, take off your shoes), we must remain vigilant. peace.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 11th, 2012
3:32 pm
getalife: We united after 9/11 then a Dem won and there was no unity after a collapse and getting obl.
———————-
You lie.
The unity ended when Democrats realized unity would help re-elect Our President Bush.
Aquagirl
September 11th, 2012
3:34 pm
The terrorists’ attack succeeded because we were a fat, complacent, and immature nation. Most people’s sacrifice has been a couple of gropings by the TSA and a $5.99 yellow ribbon for their gas-guzzling SUV. We’re still fat, complacent, and immature. In a way that’s sadder than 9/11 ever could be.
InAtl
September 11th, 2012
3:34 pm
And as I pointed out on another post, NYT’s own public editor, Arthur Brisbane, very recently pointed out that their “progressivism bleeds through the paper.” Something most of us noticed a long time ago.
@@
September 11th, 2012
3:43 pm
Kyle must’ve been at “Commentary” ’bout the same time I was, although I was reading a different article.
Anyhoo, I’ve always suspected Eichenwald’s motives ever since he paid $2,000 to gain access into the seedy world of child pornography.
Perhaps JDW could let his imagination run WILD with THAT one.
schnirt
cc
September 11th, 2012
3:45 pm
@@ – 12:55 pm:
I agree with you. We need to let it go for today. Even after all this time, the memories are still too fresh, the feelings of anguish and despair remain and the anger still burns brightly.
Just this one blog . . . just for today . . . let the politics go for today.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
September 11th, 2012
3:47 pm
HDB
What really hurts is the good will from the rest of the world that this nation wasted! If our leaders had taken that good will to go after OBL rather than Saddam, we would have taken another step towards peace….and the US would have garnered a greater deal of respect!!
I wish that were true, but Gadhafi was still fomenting in Libya, Assad was still abusing and killing his people in Syria, Mubarek was still going to be overthrown in Egypt, Iran and Israel would still be fighting over Lebanon, Iran would still be attempting to get a nuclear weapon they could use to rid the ME of the Jews. Don’t think our not going after Saddam would have helped.
@@
September 11th, 2012
3:51 pm
Cairo (CNN) — Angry protesters climbed the walls of the U.S. Embassy in Cairo on Tuesday and hauled down the American flag, replacing it with a black standard with Islamic emblems, apparently in protest of the production of a film thought to insult the Prophet Mohammed.
The incident prompted a volley of warning shots to be fired as a large crowd gathered outside, said CNN producer Mohammed Fahmy, who was on the scene.
The replacement flag read, “There is no God but Allah and Mohammad is his messenger.”
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/11/world/meast/egpyt-us-embassy-protests/index.html
The Arab Spring of Discontent?
cc
September 11th, 2012
3:51 pm
Kyle:
Great column. Thanks!
JDW
September 11th, 2012
4:01 pm
@Kyle…the 9/11 report clearly details multiple warning that were ignored by the Bush Administration including those from Clinton, Clarke, Pavitt, and Tenet. The Report further concludes that “the system was blinking red” and that “an al Qaeda attack was imminent”.
As I said before the Bush Administration might not have been negligent but they were damn sure incompetent. It is not so much that they failed to stop the attack as it is they failed to have even a high level principals meeting until September at Bush’s ranch. It the systems is “blinking red” a competent Administration DOES SOMETHING! They may fail but they act.
JDW
September 11th, 2012
4:03 pm
@@@…if you will read you will note that Eichenwald is not a key player in my thinking…ignored warnings from others more than fill that bill.
Dusty
September 11th, 2012
4:04 pm
Well, there have been some very wise and wonderful posts here today. Kyle gave us his honest review and others here have told us of both the sadness of loss and the joy of finding loved ones not lost.
I seem to have a place in my mind that I don’t like to visit for too long a time. The first thing there is the Kennedy assassination. That was like having a blow to the middle and the lights going out. One so young and happy to lead us and gone in the flick of a trigger from a fanatic killer.
Next part in remembrance is the explosion of the Challenger in midsky. I was standing in a store with a large TV for viewing. That terrible sight unfolded on screen as I watched horrified. .Not the brave, the explorers, the undaunted, not them! But they were gone.
Then came 9/11, disaster doubled and tripled into the thousands while we watched life as we know it depart and crumble carrying our magnificient monoliths away and with them mothers and fathers, sons and daughters, breaking the heart of America.
I don’t like to consider that sadness too long. We have recovered, rebuilt, and remembered and we move on to establish the goals of many who left us that day. We keep hope for a “better day”. We can be thankful for that hope and still have the freedom to find it.
David R. Boag, DDS
September 11th, 2012
4:17 pm
Getalife @ 11:59 am,
Who is the divider on the blog today? If you are looking at everyone else on the blog, and you don’t know who it is, it’s probably you. Kyle writes a really nice non-confrontational, introspective piece, and even with that tone, you just can’t stop yourself, can you?
Or can you? Maybe just for today. How about it?
David R. Boag, DDS
September 11th, 2012
4:22 pm
You too, Finn @ 12:09. Who are the dividers today?
Seriously guys. If you can’t control yourselves even for a day like today, it says a lot about you, none of it good.
Come on now. If you can’t truce it for one day, then I think we know where the problem is.
Jeffrey
September 11th, 2012
4:23 pm
Kyle, I can’t believe it was lunchtime before you found out That would be impossible today. I heard on 99x and then the small company I worked at let us all go back to watch the events on tv. That always stood out because we never turned on a tv at work just that one day.
@@
September 11th, 2012
4:24 pm
JDW:
@@@…if you will read
NO, DUDE(tte)…it’s time for YOU to read!!!!!!
I’m passing you by.
END OF DISCUSSION!!!!!!
JamVet
September 11th, 2012
4:27 pm
You lie.
The unity ended when Democrats realized unity would help re-elect Our President Bush.
What a pathetic “memory”.
I cried with joy when I learned that he was not hurt or killed. Which would have made things a thousand times worse for this country. And I also sang his praises long, loud and clear when he initially crushed those b@st@rds in Afghanistan.
But then…. (we all know the rest.)
Kyle Wingfield
September 11th, 2012
4:34 pm
Jeffrey: Yeah, it definitely would be different today, with smartphones and whatnot. Although, I had a cellphone back then and (the memory’s straining a bit at this point) I *think* I wasn’t allowed to have it on while in the plant. So maybe, in my case, it wouldn’t have been.
@@
September 11th, 2012
4:38 pm
“I don’t think downtown should be in the business of selecting teachers. . .local school principals should select if you’re going to hold them accountable,” Emanuel said. “It’s just like holding a coach accountable for a team’s results. They create the team.”
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/clout/chi-emanuel-faces-striking-teachers-while-selling-strike-message-20120911,0,5921962.story
And I don’t think the federal government should be in the business of picking winners and losers in the business world.
Michael H. Smith
September 11th, 2012
4:46 pm
Somethings you tell yourself you never want to forget. With the passage of time you wish had not told yourself to remember, for now somethings you only wish you could forgot.
MarkV
September 11th, 2012
4:50 pm
I watched the 9/11 events on live TV while on a trip abroad, and I can never forget the feeling – the mixture of disbelief, desperation, outrage, sadness, determination, and many others. To me also it ranks side by side with the Kennedy assassination
After reading Kurt Eichewald’s column in NYT, I find the most significant words at the end in the answer about whether the attack could have been stopped: “We can’t ever know.” But I find a different meaning of those words. We can never know all the events, actions, inactions and circumstances that might have changed the course of this and other histories. And I find the efforts to use the 9/11 tragedy as a political tool – from either side – rather indecent. The most political I could go with this issue would be to remind everybody to be careful about putting blame on others just because something happens on their watch.
Dearie
September 11th, 2012
4:50 pm
Great column!
Michael H. Smith
September 11th, 2012
4:56 pm
If when you write a blog on what do you think could have been done to avoid the attacks of 9/11 Kyle I’ll be glad to weigh in but now is neither the time or place, so I’ll bid all a pleasant evening.
Interested Observer
September 11th, 2012
4:56 pm
Kyle linked to a response about the piece describing the Bush Administrations’ lack of vigilance in the weeks and months leading up to 9/11. The original piece stated that “some in the administration considered the [terrorist attacks] warning to be just bluster.” Among many bad defenses, the best defense that the above article had to offer was, “this is undoubtedly earth-shattering news to those who didn’t bother to read the 9/11 Commission Report (published in 2004), in which these warnings were first disclosed.”
This argument seems to say, “They screwed up, but we already knew that, so why should we care?” Seems to me that we should care.
Actually, however, we didn’t already know what the Times article reports. The Times article informs us that the neo-cons in the Bush administration did not take the threat of terrorist attacks seriously, despite cries from the CIA to do so, because Bush and friends thought that bin Laden was faking the threat of a possible attack specifically to draw their attention away from Iraq. Seriously. That’s what it says.
If true (key words), then this is disturbing on so many levels. The level of incompetence, negligence, and pure stupidity among Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld and friends would way beyond anything than most of us can fathom.
Dusty
September 11th, 2012
4:56 pm
Well, if we must fuss about something, I’ll add my two cents: DO NOT GO TO EMORY BY WAY OF NORTH DECATUR ROAD!
Have you ever been sailing along and all of a sudden: Voila! a big orange sign with big arrows! ONE LANE TRAFFIC AHEAD! and suddenlhy you are in a two lane mad car stampede of slow moving thousands (I exaggerate slightly!) One line moves a few feet. Then the other line moves a few feet. All that when you have miles to go.
Then there were the big yellow snorting digging racing tooting dumping machines and the magnificent discharge of cement trucks.a thrill with many moments to enjoy!
Maybe it is the REVENGE OF TSPLOST!! THE DAUNTLESS DOT!!! The Hard Hat Avenger!
Ok..I made it. I’ll do better next time. I think I will try Briarcliff Road. Anybody know where the demon yellow trucks are headed next?
(Now Kyle will probably give me a “ticket” for blocking traffic here. )
Dusty
September 11th, 2012
5:03 pm
MarkV 4:50
I liked that.
@@
September 11th, 2012
5:05 pm
I’ve been there, Dusty.
Have you ever been sailing along and all of a sudden: Voila! a big orange sign with big arrows! ONE LANE TRAFFIC AHEAD!
I don’t wait for someone to give me a spot…I take it!
Haven’t been hit yet. Alot of horn blowing…I just give ‘em a “THANK YOU” wave.
InAtl
September 11th, 2012
5:06 pm
@Interested Observer: “The Times article informs us that the neo-cons in the Bush administration did not take the threat of terrorist attacks seriously, despite cries from the CIA to do so, because Bush and friends thought that bin Laden was faking the threat of a possible attack specifically to draw their attention away from Iraq. Seriously. That’s what it says. ”
So that means it must be true? Anytime I see the word “neocons,” I laugh and realize someone is not making a serious point. Did you not see Kyle’s link to the rebuttal to the ridiculous, ill-timed and inflammatory Times hit piece?
markie mark
September 11th, 2012
5:07 pm
wow…I think the Falling Man story is the saddest thing I ever read…..I had no clue that many people jumped……damn, just damn
@@
September 11th, 2012
5:07 pm
Oops!
I just give ‘em a “THANK YOU” wave.
With all five fingers in case anyone is wonderin’.
InAtl
September 11th, 2012
5:12 pm
Kyle, I’ve made two posts that disappeared. What’s up with that?
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 11th, 2012
5:14 pm
Interested Observer: If true (key words), then this is disturbing on so many levels. The level of incompetence, negligence, and pure stupidity among Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld and friends would way beyond anything than most of us can fathom.
—————–
But you don’t find it disturbing that Clinton could have easily disrupted al Qaeda by taking out bin Laden on the several occasions he easily could have, and you don’t find it disturbing that al Qaeda planned, trained for, and began carrying out the 9/11 attacks on his watch, and Clinton did nothing? Even after the Cole bombing?
Your post on this is pure partisan hypocrisy.
Seems to me that al Qaeda was at war with us for some time before we took them seriously. Our President Bush inherited this mess and had no actionable information to act on that would have enabled Him to prevent the attacks. “Al Qaeda determined to attack? Put the country in lockdown!”
He did a great job reforming our intelligence-gathering and anti-terror efforts in response to 9/11, which we are benefiting from today. He brought democracy to 50 million people who didn’t have it before. The Arab Spring is an echo of those efforts and will, in time, make most or all of the Middle East freer and more peaceful.
getalife
September 11th, 2012
5:16 pm
Told ya they could not give it a rest.
getalife
September 11th, 2012
5:18 pm
At least, Romney did give it a rest today.
So did our President.
Interested Observer
September 11th, 2012
5:27 pm
RE: “But you don’t find it disturbing that Clinton could have easily disrupted al Qaeda by taking out bin Laden on the several occasions…
People have short memories. Clinton tried to kill bin Laden, and Republicans criticized him at the time for doing so.
Rep. Dick Armey, GOP majority leader: “The suspicion some people have about the president’s motives in this attack [on bin Laden] is itself a powerful argument for impeachment,” Armey said in a statement. “After months of lies, the president has given millions of people around the world reason to doubt that he has sent Americans into battle for the right reasons.”
GOP Sen. Dan Coats: Coats, a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said in a statement, “While there is clearly much more we need to learn about this attack [on bin Laden] and why it was ordered today, given the president’s personal difficulties this week, it is legitimate to question the timing of this action.”
Wall Street Journal editorial: “It is dangerous for an American president to launch a military strike, however justified, at a time when many will conclude he acted only out of narrow self-interest to forestall or postpone his own impeachment.”
The list goes on and on.
Kyle Wingfield
September 11th, 2012
5:29 pm
InAtl: I’ve pushed it through.
@@
September 11th, 2012
5:30 pm
Getalife:
You and what-his-name up ^^^ there started it.
I will say that since 2001, we’ve lost three of those special needs children. Complications with their disabilities/syndromes will often cut their lives short.
While I mourn their loss, it’s their sheer determination to overcome obstacles that inspires me.
I consider myself fortunate for having known them.
No doubt, anyone attached to the victims of September 11, 2001 feel the same way.
I hold it true, whate’er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
‘Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.–Lord Tennyson–In Memoriam
Interested Observer
September 11th, 2012
5:30 pm
Somehow, my most recent post didn’t make it through either???
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 11th, 2012
5:32 pm
Apparently there is no cure for Bush Derangement Syndrome. The libtards caught it when W outsmarted Gore in 2000 and had a relapse when He just plain whupped Kerry’s butt in 2004.
Interested Observer
September 11th, 2012
5:32 pm
RE: “Did you not see Kyle’s link to the rebuttal to the ridiculous, ill-timed and inflammatory Times hit piece?”
Yes. In fact, my comment quoted directly from the article that Kyle linked to AND responded to it.
Kyle Wingfield
September 11th, 2012
5:33 pm
It’s up now, too, Interested.
Interested Observer
September 11th, 2012
5:36 pm
Thank you, Kyle.
@@
September 11th, 2012
5:36 pm
Kyle:
I lost one too. No need to force it through tho. I can’t even remember what it was about.
(ISH)
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 11th, 2012
5:38 pm
Interested Observer: People have short memories. Clinton tried to kill bin Laden, and Republicans criticized him at the time for doing so.
——————
Yeah, I do remember. Clinton launched ONE round of cruise missiles and called it a “War On Terror”. Turns out it was the shortest “war” ever…about five minutes long.
Clinton had multiple opportunities to take out OBL and did nothing. Then he played hot potato with Islamofascist terrorism and it landed in Our President Bush’s lap.
Another Democrat mess that a Republican had to clean up. Kinda like Vietnam.
Jefferson
September 11th, 2012
5:57 pm
I wanted to bomb, Saudi, still do somedays.
@@
September 11th, 2012
6:06 pm
Don’t know if anyone has posted this perspective.
The Story of the Only American Not on Earth on September 11th
When astronauts describe the feeling of sailing around space, looking at our planet from hundreds of miles above, they often invoke the phrase “orbital perspective,” a shorthand for the emotional, psychological, and intellectual effects of seeing “the Earth hanging in the blackness of space.”
As he signed off, Culbertson reflected, “I miss all of you very much.”
A tiny speck of great significance to Americans everywhere.
InAtl
September 11th, 2012
6:12 pm
Interested Observer, I don’t think your post about the NYT article was clear in which article you were quoting from, the original or the rebuttal. That being said, I think the suggestion that republicans are less vigilant in the war on terror than democrats is really a stretch. Remember, we’re supposed to be the “hawks” and you guys are supposed to be the “doves.” Obviously there was not enough intel to clue our people in to where the attack would happen. To suggest that Bush or anyone else ignored a known threat is simply absurd. And the quotes you selected from Graham and others I suspect are in regard to the aspirin factory bombing right before the mid-term elections.
JDW
September 11th, 2012
6:13 pm
@@@…”END OF DISCUSSION!!!!!!”
O’ dear…avoiding discussion doesn’t usually lead to learning…challenge your preconceptions…you might change your perspective.
Linda
September 11th, 2012
6:20 pm
One of my vivid memories of 9/11/11 came hours after the World Trade Centers were hit. It was a clip of apparently extra ER staff of a hospital who had been called in to duty. They were standing outside the hospital on the sidewalk, looking toward the WTCs, wondering where their anticipated patients were.
Where were the hurt & injured, who were not coming? The hurt & injury in their expressions, in their hearts & in their souls were apparent, as the realization set in that their “patients” were dead. Their awareness of the hopelessness of 9/11 made me aware of the senselessness of 9/11.
We’ve memorialized the victims who died on 9/11/11 for 12 years. There will never be memorials for those who cleaned up the toxic aftermath of 9/11 & who have died & are dying for such heroic efforts.
My family’s prayers today, as always, will be for all of those who lost on 9/11/11 & for those who gained a renewed sense of patriotism & determination on 9/11/11.
Interested Observer
September 11th, 2012
6:29 pm
RE: “To suggest that Bush or anyone else ignored a known threat is simply absurd.”
Unfortunately, the evidence seems to suggest otherwise.
Recall that a CIA briefer spoke to Bush while Bush was visiting his ranch in Texas. Amid numerous red flags indicating a pending al-Qaeda attack, the CIA specifically set out to call the president’s attention to the August 6, 2001 memo titled “Bin Ladin Determined to Strike in US.” Bush heard the briefer out and replied: “All right. You’ve covered your ass, now.”
TRUTH
September 11th, 2012
6:37 pm
TIME OUT FROM POLITICS. WE SALUTE THE FALLEN AND LIFT UP OUR NATION. WE REMAIN UNITED AS A COUNTRY AND THROUGH OUR SPIRIT.
LET’S ROLL!
@@
September 11th, 2012
6:43 pm
JDW:
Believe me…after witnessing your political opportunism on a day intended as a memorial to lives lost, my perspective is clear.
Leftists are a shameful lot. Lower than a snake’s belly.
Are we clear on that?
InAtl
September 11th, 2012
6:47 pm
Knowing an attack is coming is one thing. Knowing where it will come from is entirely different. And I think you’re choosing to assume they ignored the intel, which you really have no evidence of yourself.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 11th, 2012
6:48 pm
Interested Observer
September 11th, 2012
6:29 pm
———-
Still waiting to hear about the specific threats the CIA uncovered, or the actionable intel we had.
Didn’t think so.
Your BDS can’t be healthy.
Hillbilly D
September 11th, 2012
7:29 pm
Reading back through today’s comments, some just never can let it go, for anything. It’s pretty sad.
@@
September 11th, 2012
7:48 pm
Plasma Gasification Raises Hopes of Clean Energy From Garbage
There for a minute, I thought Obama was looking to take our blood to promote clean energy.
Turns out it’s just our money. Whew!
schnirt
I’ve always liked the idea of using garbage as an alternative energy source. Can’t keep packing it into landfills. We Americans sho ’nuff produce alot of it.
Del
September 11th, 2012
7:52 pm
Solemn day of remembrance and Bookman and his faithful flock are having cerebral orgasms over the latest polls and rejoicing in the belief that the “one” is now destined to have a second term. Pathetic celebration and a clear display of anti-Americanism.
David R. Boag, DDS
September 11th, 2012
8:02 pm
Linda @ 6:20,
You are right to think about them, but the date of the event is 9/11/01.
AU Liberal in ATL
September 11th, 2012
8:15 pm
Did anyone else notice the talking heads on Fox News today? Those Godless hypocrites spent the day complaining that The President hasn’t mentioned God enough on this day. If that bunch represents God, I’ll take my chances with the fckng Devil.
Linda
September 11th, 2012
8:16 pm
Manners matter. Liberals don’t got none. Liberals can’t find jobs & have trouble finding rental housing to shack up with their girlfriends. They are clueless. Conservative business owners DID build their companies & DO tie scruples in private lives to scruples in the workplace.
AU Liberal in ATL
September 11th, 2012
8:18 pm
Dear Delusional Del, pathetic is the proper word, but it describes you. There is nothing anit-American about supporting our President. What you’re doing is called projecting. Go see your therapist.
mike
September 11th, 2012
8:18 pm
How’s everyone doing? Lonely, as usual? I see Romney and Ryan are still sticking to the “lie to get elected” theme of their campaign. It’s just pathetic that the right has to resort to lies to try to appeal to their base. It won’t make any difference, though. They’re still going to lose come November.
David R. Boag, DDS
September 11th, 2012
8:22 pm
InAtl @ 6:47
FINALLY a voice of reason! When it comes to intelligence, there is what we KNOW versus what we THINK we know, and what we THINK we should do about it versus what MUST be done. Even if it was known that there would be an imminent attack on us by AlQuaida, what would a reasonable person do when there had been ABSOLUTELY ZERO history of terrorist attacks on our shores? And by that, I mean what concrete steps would you expect a reasonable person to take at that time? Then, we’re those stps recommended to the president? Then, did he disagree with those recommendations?
And then there is the accountability thing. If ALL Bush received was that there would be an imminent attack using planes from AlQuaida, but no known dates, times, places, and there has been no history of a successful terrorist attack on our shores, what is Bush supposed to do? What were the recommended security precautions that his advisors were recommending to him? It is hard to blame him if he got incomplete information that was not KNOWN. It’s so much easier to see in hindsight–especially, apparently, for those who are critical of the Bush administration–because our security mindset is completely different now than it was 12 years ago.
If you think being a Monday morning quarterback is easier than being a quarterback, it is infinitely easi to be a Wednesday morning president.
mike
September 11th, 2012
8:25 pm
I know that a root canal costs a lot more on a molar than on a bicuspid. Why is that? More roots? I never understood that.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 11th, 2012
8:28 pm
mike and Au Lib, can’t you two losers just dial the political rhetoric down a bit on this day?
Have you no decency?
mike
September 11th, 2012
8:31 pm
Well, I’m so sorry you were offended Tiberius. I guess Linda didn’t get the memo. Or is her posts invisible to your eyes?
Del
September 11th, 2012
8:35 pm
AU Lib, drinks the lefts Kool-Aid by the gallon and bows to his handlers as their tool. Pathetic that people like AU Lib become so absorbed that they can no longer think for themselves. Crawl back over to Bookman tool.
Linda
September 11th, 2012
8:37 pm
David R. Boag, DDS, Do you accept Medicaid patients? Why or why not? Do you know anyone who does? What’s going to happen to Medicaid patients, especially children, who need care under Obamacare?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 11th, 2012
8:38 pm
Posts, mike? How about “post”? And in the one immediately above she was certainly calling out the libs on this blog for their lack of manners due to THEIR inconsiderate posts.
But once again, why do you troll here on THIS day with political crap?
Del
September 11th, 2012
8:38 pm
“They’re still going to lose come November.”
Mick, don’t count your chickens even though you flock with them.
independent thinker
September 11th, 2012
8:39 pm
Funny how the cons do not wan the truth about who was responsible for 9-11 coming out today but old psychopath Cheney picks today to condemn Obama for taking credit for pulling the trigger on Osama.
David R. Boag, DDS
September 11th, 2012
8:40 pm
Mike @ 8:18,
Try to be nice. You can if you try.
Relax with the political stuff today
Otherwise, we really don’t want to hear this kind of stuff today. Maybe tomorrow, we’ll engage.
Listen to the tone of what you are posting vs. Kyle’s post, and if you can’t stop yourself we will all just
Laugh at you, because you’ll make it so easy for us to see what you are.
@@
September 11th, 2012
8:41 pm
Another one!!??!!
An armed mob attacked the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya, late Tuesday, hours after Egyptians stormed the U.S. Embassy in Cairo to protest a film they denounced as blasphemous against Islam. One American was reported dead and one slightly wounded.
JDW
September 11th, 2012
8:42 pm
@@@..Believe me…after witnessing your political opportunism on a day intended as a memorial to lives lost, my perspective is clear.”
Political opportunism…HAH..9/11 is one of the key events that shaped my political view.
Incompetent is incompetent and ignoring that fact is doing those that died a disservice. Our responsibility is to make sure that it doesn’t happen again…cloaking yourself in the flag and refusing to face facts does no good.
Del
September 11th, 2012
8:43 pm
Obama for taking over the top credit for pulling the trigger on Osama.
Fixed the typo. Carry on
@@
September 11th, 2012
8:43 pm
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
JamVet
September 11th, 2012
8:45 pm
whiner, @@, kayaker 71, lil bb, del, linda, mike and Au Lib among others, can’t you losers just dial the political rhetoric down a bit on this day?
Have you no decency?
Del
September 11th, 2012
8:47 pm
“Laugh at you, because you’ll make it so easy for us to see what you are.”
David R. DDS, I can help you there…he’s a name changer from Bookmans blog.
mike
September 11th, 2012
8:47 pm
In a fantasy land far, far away, terrorists attacked the United States after President Obama had advanced warning and did not act on it. If you had to guess, what would be the reaction of the right?
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 11th, 2012
8:48 pm
An armed mob attacked the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya, late Tuesday, hours after Egyptians stormed the U.S. Embassy in Cairo
———————-
B-b-b-but Obozo won the Nobel Peace prize–didn’t they hear?
Del
September 11th, 2012
8:49 pm
P-jammy, your guy’s raised it up. Crawl back.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 11th, 2012
8:49 pm
mike, even Bill Clinton called BS on your little libtard narrative. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Linda
September 11th, 2012
8:54 pm
mike@8:31, My posts were offensive? I only had two before your comment. What did you find offensive with my 6:20 post? I guess my 8:16 hit home to you. I would never hire a liberal or rent to a couple who were shacked up. A person who is immoral is immoral.
Del
September 11th, 2012
8:55 pm
It appears Kyle’s blog is being infested and next we’ll have fat body and squaw boy over here making insane posts. Oh well…Taps
Linda
September 11th, 2012
9:03 pm
JamVet@8:45, Can’t handle the truth? Kiss my grits.
We’re LOSERS? Why don’t you tone down YOUR political rhetoric? We’re not decent? Are you kidding?
David R. Boag, DDS
September 11th, 2012
9:14 pm
Linda @ 8:37 pm,
Linda, I used to work at practices where a majority of patients were Medicaid (MC). I have worked in Atlanta area practices and I worked in one in LaGrange. There was a VERY significant difference in the quality of the people who I saw in the two areas.
In LaGrange, those who were on MC treated my boss and I with respect, because they knew we were taking a huge pay cut to see them. They were appreciative, and most of them were just simply down on their luck and not trying to abuse the system or act like they we owed anything. There were, of course a FEW exceptions, but for the most part, they were good people, and I felt good helping them out.
But the MC patients in ATL were the POLAR OPPOSITE! Most treated me like they were OWED the work. There were more a users of the system than the exceptions who were just simply good people who were down on their luck. Heck, I saw too many driving nicer cars than I drive bringing their 5 kids. It taught me QUICKLY that I NEVER want to have a MC practice in the ATL area. I would rather be gracious and generous to families and individuals for whom I personally have compassion.
To be honest with you, as bad as those patients could be, NOTHING was worse than treating atlanta-area DMO patients. They were worse, because they THOUGHT that because they paid $8 per month to an insurance company that they should then have access to th best dentistry for practically nothing more, and unlike the MC people, they PAID for it, so they were quite belligerent. Miserable. I will never work in those environments again. There are rumors that the government might one day FORCE all dentists to take some MC. I will MOVE or QUIT first! I am a generous man, but I want the right to choose when whom I am generous, not have the government force me to be generous to who they want me to.
I have chosen to have a practice where I offer some of the very best dentistry. I don’t always DO the best dentistry, because many can’t afford to do it the best way. But I firmly believe that the best medical system is one that COMPLETELY eliminates third party payers, where a patient and a doctor decide what is the best direction to go and how much the fees are. I say this BOTH as a patient and as a doctor.
People try to say it is a pipe dream, and to some degree it is, but every time someone complains about the state of health care, if you simplified it to an agreement between doctors and patients, it eliminates WAY more problems than it creates. I say this as someone who has to pay full price for his dentist to see him. I do it because he is the best, and that’s what I want for myself. When it comes to my mouth, I want the best, and I’m willing to save my money to get it. I think about all the crap I get around by just saving my money and paying cash for my work to be done. If you think that ANYONE who uses a participating provider is getting the best dentistry, I can tell you for certain that they are not. I cannot offer my highest level of care to my in-network patients. I lose money if I try, and no one goes into business to lose money. They have to settle for pretty-good dentistry, and most are happy with that. If anyone thinks they can get the best care at a discount, they are fooling themselves.
Hope that helps bring a reasonable context to my answer to your question.
JamVet
September 11th, 2012
9:27 pm
Del and Linda, have you no decency?
On this, of ALL days?
How sad…
@@
September 11th, 2012
9:31 pm
…can’t you losers just dial the political rhetoric down a bit on this day?
As if……
AmVet’s illusions distort the reality of what’s been going on around here.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 11th, 2012
9:38 pm
JamVet, you sphinctermonius phony!
Linda
September 11th, 2012
9:43 pm
Dr. Boag, Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your lengthy answer to my question.
My premise is that health care in the US will need to be reformed so that patients pay cash to their primary care physicians for routine care & a percentage of the cost of emergency/illness care.
Health insurance needs to be the same as hazard insurance for homes & auto insurance.
As far as our homes, we pay for our utilities, our repairs & replacements & improvements for appliances carpets, roofs, paint, etc.
As far as our vehicles, we pay for our gas, our tires, our brakes jobs & our windshield wiper blades.
Health insurance needs to work the same way as hazard & auto insurance for the USA to ever creep its way out of the fiscal cliff that we face, specifically with Medicare, Medicaid & private health insurance.
What do you think?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 11th, 2012
9:47 pm
Linda and Dr. Boag – really?
Your conversation on health insurance can’t be delayed one, stinkin’ night until tomorrow?
Really?
@@
September 11th, 2012
9:48 pm
I just dropped in on the neighbor’s blog.
Seems like AmVet’s been dialing UP some political rhetoric of his own on this, of ALL days. AmVet’s usual stuff.
AmVet, the phony one trick pony.
thbbpppbt
Splavistic
September 11th, 2012
9:49 pm
I remember everyone united behind this tragic event. Thanks to Bush, that was short-lived…
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 11th, 2012
9:52 pm
Americans remained united after 9/11. It was the Democrats who decided that, for political reasons, they had to attack their Commander In Chief, label our troops as Nazis, and root for them to lose.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 11th, 2012
9:53 pm
Where is Brosephus’ face palm graphic when we need it?
The Deafness Before The Storm
September 11th, 2012
9:57 pm
What did Bush know and when did he know?
Did Condi Rice drop the ball?
Did Condi Rice lie to the 911 widows?
Is a guilty conscience more honorable than regret?
@@
September 11th, 2012
9:58 pm
Tiberius:
Last time I saw Brosephus’ face palm, it was lookin’ pretty skimpy. A major fade-out.
Linda
September 11th, 2012
10:00 pm
JamVet@9:27, Ditto to you what I said to mike@8:54..
The Deafness Before The Storm
September 11th, 2012
10:07 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout – Vote American
September 11th, 2012
9:52 pm
It was the Democrats who decided that, for political reasons, they had to attack their Commander In Chief, label our troops as Nazis, and root for them to lose.
*********************************************************************************
Hitler once said, the big lie works and the little lie does not.
“It was the Democrats who decided” – Big lie
“they had to attack their Commander In Chief” – Big lie
“label our troops as Nazis” – Big lie
“And root for them to lose.” – Big lie
David R. Boag, DDS
September 11th, 2012
10:10 pm
Sorry, Tiberius. I wasn’t defaming liberals. I wasn’t going after anyone personally. I wasn’t posting to be argumentative. Honestly, I was posting to share my experience with someone who asked about it.
If that exchange somehow offended you, for that I do apologize.
Linda
September 11th, 2012
10:14 pm
Tiberius@9:47, Excuse me! It is rare that any doctor would take his time to go on a blog like this. It is an opportune time to ask questions of him & listen to his answers.
When has Dr. Boag ever been on this blog? Why should any of us wait for anyone like him to come back?
There is absolutely nothing that he & I have discussed that diminishes the horror or memorial of 9/11.
Linda
September 11th, 2012
10:22 pm
Dr. Boag, Thank you for your contributions on this blog. I hope that you will again share your thoughts with us. Conservatives have to put up with being called every name in the book, but we are not intimidated in the least. Hope you are as tough as we are.
The Deafness Before The Storm
September 11th, 2012
10:23 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout – Vote American
September 11th, 2012
6:48 pm
Interested Observer
September 11th, 2012
6:29 pm
———-
Still waiting to hear about the specific threats the CIA uncovered, or the actionable intel we had.
Didn’t think so.
Your BDS can’t be healthy.
********************************************************************
President Bush was told in the months before the Sept. 11 attacks that Osama bin Laden’s terrorist network might hijack U.S. passenger planes – information which prompted the administration to issue an alert to federal agencies – but not the American public.
CBS News National Security Correspondent David Martin says the warning was in a document called the President’s Daily Brief, which is considered to be the single most important document that the U.S. intelligence community turns out. The document did not, however, mention the possibility of planes being flown into buildings.
NY Times
On Aug. 6, 2001, President George W. Bush received a classified review of the threats posed by Osama bin Laden and his terrorist network, Al Qaeda. That morning’s “presidential daily brief” — the top-secret document prepared by America’s intelligence agencies — featured the now-infamous heading: “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.” A few weeks later, on 9/11, Al Qaeda accomplished that goal.
Gina522
September 11th, 2012
10:29 pm
I was at work, and my husband called to say a plane had hit one of the towers. My company told everyone to go to the conference room, where they turned on the TV for us. In horror we watched as a second plane crashed into the other tower. We then heard that a plane had crashed into the Pentagon, and later that a plane had crashed in Pennsylvania. A coworker from NYC cried, she had once worked in the World Trade Centers and her brother was a NYC fireman. She later found she had lost friends who where working there that day. A few days later, the VP of our department learned one of her friend’s daughter had been on the plane that crashed into the Pentagon. Our company told us all to go home early that day. We were also told we could come in late the next day. I went home and sat with my husband, watching the TV for any news of survivors.
I visited the World Trade Center Memorial this summer. It was very beautiful and peaceful.
Today, I emailed my NYC friend to let her know if was thinking of her. She has sinced moved away, but we still keep in touch. I still feel the horror and sadness of that day.
cc
September 11th, 2012
10:35 pm
Del @ 7:52 pm:
The only problem I have with Bookman’s cheerleaders is that they tend to migrate to other blogs!
AU Liberal in ATL @ 8:15 pm:
Classy comment . . .
Del @ 8:55 pm:
Bernie’s ALREADY here!
David R. Boag, DDS @ 10:10 pm:
You owe no apology to anyone. You answered the questions forthrightly and honestly. It was a good post from a professional’s viewpoint.
Linda
September 11th, 2012
10:38 pm
Hey, Democrats, Al-Quida & Osama Bin Laden attacked the World Trade Center in 1993, on Clinton’s watch. Was it anyone’s surprise that they attacked it again in 2001? Everyone around the globe knew that Al-Qioda & OBL planned to attack the WTC again & finish their job. Everyone knew Al-Quida & OBD planned to attack the WTC AGAIN.
cc
September 11th, 2012
10:43 pm
Linda @ 10:38 pm:
President Clinton was otherwise occupied. He had just received a fresh shipment of new cigars and was making plans for the future . . .
td
September 11th, 2012
10:47 pm
Linda
September 11th, 2012
10:38 pm
You can not present facts like these to the programmed worshipers of the messiah and chief. You will only get personal attacks from that type of logic.
td
September 11th, 2012
10:48 pm
Kyle,
Excellent piece. Great job.
David R. Boag, DDS
September 11th, 2012
10:59 pm
Linda @ 9:43,
Out of respect for Tiberius and others who may share his sensitivity, I’ll hold off on further opinion on the issue until tomorrow. If they perceive that discussion as somehow attacking them, we can wait.
Do me a favor and ask me again to remind me. I may forget otherwise.
Linda
September 11th, 2012
11:08 pm
td@10:47, Don’t care. Can handle idiots. Does anyone who gets trickles up their legs from the Messiah deserve to get welfare from Thou to pay for said Depends?
Linda
September 11th, 2012
11:18 pm
Dr. Boag@10:59, Don’t worry about those on this blog who have no respect for anyone other than themselves & their ilk. Conservatives need to get tough or we will never save our civilization. It’s not just if we are better off than we were 4 yrs. ago. It’s whether or not we might survive as a country.
gm
September 11th, 2012
11:33 pm
The scum bags at fox uninformed news attacking Obama while he tries to comfort the families of 911, this shows what a bunch of scum buckets we have on the right, these people are the same as the terrorist that bombed our nation, both of them are filled with hate for Americicans especially the President of the United States.
For all the hypocrites on the right, you are using pell grants, va, ssi medicare, femma for disaster, corporate welfare for your company, when are you going to confess to the free stuff you are getting, what a bunch of scum bags.
gm
September 11th, 2012
11:38 pm
Linda
Another mental rep women, who hates all women rights because bubba and the right wing nut jobs keep them in their place, Thank God for liberal women or these people will still be running around barefoot and pregnant”””’
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
1:31 am
On writing on 9/11, on and on
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzCk3qiybnA
Bruno
September 12th, 2012
1:37 am
I’m gonna fly like an eagle……
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a6lAwbE1J4
How come there aren’t any show like “Midnight Special” anymore???
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 12th, 2012
6:32 am
The Deafness Before The Storm
September 11th, 2012
10:23 pm
———
Wow, earth-shattering stuff…people might try to hijack planes. I guess that’s why we only started searching folks, x-raying stuff, and created air marshals only AFTER 9/11…
Still waiting to hear about the credible threats and actionable intel.
And you should do something about that hate that’s eating you alive.
David R. Boag, DDS
September 12th, 2012
6:48 am
Linda (and Tiberius et al),
You will note that I didn’t apologize for WHAT I said. I’m apologizing for WHEN I said them. As I wrote my response, I really didn’t see it as argumentative political banter, but after Tiberius’ response, if I was someone with his worldview, I might construe it as that. And, out of respect for the day, my opinion on the subject of healthcare can afford to wait 12 hours.
There is a difference between being tough and being an a-hole. I prefer to remain the former and continuing to respect others’ right to disbelieve the truth while still standing up for it. I would call on ALL my conservative and liberal cohorts on here to do the same.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
7:07 am
Dr. Boag, my issue was that you and Linda were having a discussion on a blog written regarding 9/11 ON 9/11. I understand your desire to be polite and respond to Linda’s questions, but I was simply pointing out that out of respect for the day, that answer could have waited. I didn’t see it as an attack, but just incredible insensitivity towards those who still mourn after the events of that day.
Sadly, the political nature of too many liberals on this blog (and a couple of conservatives as well), is such that they can’t turn off the vitriol and blame game for one minute, let alone one day.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 12th, 2012
7:21 am
Perhaps you should have just taken the entire day off the blogs, Tiberius. I’m pretty sure you were the only one offended by a discussion of health insurance yesterday.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
7:24 am
Perhaps you should develop a bit of morality, LBB.
It is pathetic that you can’t shut down the political crap for one stinkin’ day.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 12th, 2012
7:26 am
As for the discussion of politics on 9/11, I’ll say this: Every day we’re not working to defeat Obozo, the terrorists win (the liberal fascist ones within our borders).
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 12th, 2012
7:30 am
Those Libyans sure are grateful to the U.S. for helping liberate them. They’ve killed our ambassador there in a rocket attack on our embassy. Perhaps NASA can reach out to them and raise their self-esteem so they aren’t acting out like that in the future.
gm
September 12th, 2012
7:32 am
Lil’ Barry Bailout – Vote American
3500 Americans dead on GW Bush watch plus he had several warnings, end of story, please right wing nut job, stop trying to rewrite history”””’
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 12th, 2012
7:36 am
gm, who do you blame more for the 9/11 attacks–the Islamofascist hijackers, or Our President Bush?
gm
September 12th, 2012
7:44 am
President Bush had several warning this attack was comming go and read the memos, Are Americans better off now then 4 years ago? ask bin ladin and the rest of the terrorist group, you can spin it all you want 3500 Americans died under the Bush administration.
Could you imagine if this had of happen on Obam watch? the wing nut jobs would never stop, fox mis information would have been working around the clock.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
7:55 am
If you want to continue the blame game, gm, then wouldn’t you be intellectually honest and blame Obama’s Libyan policy for the death of his ambassador and 3 others yesterday?
Just checking to see if this goes both ways.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 12th, 2012
8:09 am
Can’t answer my question, gm? Your silence is quite telling.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 12th, 2012
8:11 am
Haven’t flown since, and barring some family emergency, never will again. The over-reaction of so-called Homeland Security is not my cup of tea.
ummm, apparently the Homeland Security is the only over reactor out there. If you see a car wreck on TV you won’t be able to get into a car again?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 12th, 2012
8:13 am
There was no single memo preceding the attacks. They had been warning the W administration for months.
And Dusty says “W kept us safe.” Ummmm. No clue?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
8:14 am
Finn, I’d suggest you grow up, but that would e a wasted effort on my part.
No Constitutional rights to unlawful search and seizure are violated with a car wreck. It is a principled stance you cannot possibly hope to understand.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 12th, 2012
8:14 am
For the Cons, 9/11 is Clinton’s fault and economic collapse of 2007-2008 is Obama’s fault.
No reprehensibility whatsoever. Remember, when you deal with conservatives, you are dealing with children.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
8:26 am
Objectively, 9/11 might not have happened if Clinton had decided to take Bin Laden when offered to us, but as with the arguments about what might have happened to the economy or GM if McCain had been elected, we’ll never know.
Did Bush treat the warnings of a possible attack lightly? Maybe. Only those in attendance in his security briefings know for sure, and that certainly doesn’t include any poster on this blog.
Was the U.S. government setup regarding information sharing to blame as well? Probably. To say that if this government would stop interfering with an Amish farmer’s ability to sell milk and focus on one of the first roles of government – national security – would be an understatement.
There are far too many people, organizations and policies to blame for 9/11.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 12th, 2012
8:27 am
Tib wants me to grow up? I’m not the one who saw an act of violence and was too afraid to ever get on an airplane again.
I suggest you avoid any documentaries about the history of Ireland.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 12th, 2012
8:29 am
Did Bush treat the warnings of a possible attack lightly? Maybe.
Children. Sigh….go watch Fox News and leave reality to us adults.
gm
September 12th, 2012
8:31 am
Lil’ Barry Bailout – Vote AmericanTiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
Obama’s Libyan policy for the death of his ambassador and 3 others yesterday?
So do we blame Nato also? they along with the United States helped changed libya, thats the different between this great President and the last idiot, we have allies who work with us and share the blood sweat and tears, unlike the last President where we lost over 4,0000 Americans troops in Iraq.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
September 12th, 2012
8:31 am
Aahhh, I see that the world loves us with our fuzzy little obozo in charge
U.S. AMBASSADOR TO LIBYA, 3 OTHERS, KILLED IN ATTACK
It’s the Moonbat Spring.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
8:35 am
As I surmised. A principled stance IS too complicated for Finn to understand.
Color me shocked.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
8:35 am
Of course, maybe Finn just likes to be groped . . .
gm
September 12th, 2012
8:37 am
Mtt, who have sent are jobs overseas Romney bashing the President for the attack in Libyan, this war hawk is ready to send troops, I wonder will he send his rich sons to fight? no, he will send poor whites, middle class to fight.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
8:37 am
Got it gm.
Blame Bush alone for 9/11.
Don’t blame Obama for getting his ambassador killed.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 12th, 2012
8:39 am
Cons, take note that those attacks didn’t occur on US soil.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
8:39 am
Just when does sovereign U.S. territory no longer become sovereign U.S. Territory, gm?
Who would want to work for ANY administration which fails to protect their ambassadors in foreign lands?
gm
September 12th, 2012
8:41 am
Tiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
Stop trying to rewrite history, Bush will always be remembered for the first attack inside American soil, I think 3500 American more then 3 Americans.
Poor Bush name can not even be mention by rep leaders wonder why??????/
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
8:46 am
gm, you might wish to READ what someone posts before commenting. I do not attempt to rewrite history, but rather, put the whole chain of events in the proper perspective.
Unlike you.
The failure of 9/11 has MANY fathers, if looked at in a non-partisan way.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 12th, 2012
8:51 am
The failure of 9/11 has MANY fathers… but George W Bush isn’t one of them.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
8:53 am
Of course, Finn, I never wrote that.
But keep believing your fantasy world.
cc
September 12th, 2012
9:06 am
The wonderful peace-loving muslims marked the anniversary of 9/11 in Libya and Egypt resulting in the deaths of Americans. What can we expect from the ‘empty chair’ in response? Doubtless, another apology tour is necessary and increased financial aid will be a consideration.
America has no discernible foreign policy and has not had such since January, 2009. The only perceivable portion of our non-existent foreign policy has been appeasement, and we are reaping the dividends.
America faces no crisis in leadership. We have none . . .
David R. Boag, DDS
September 12th, 2012
9:19 am
Tiberius,
Your message was understood. It was primarily a timing thing. However, suggesting that my post was somehow vitriolic might be a little much. Nor was I blaming ANYONE. Reread the post. Did it make a statement about our culture? Yes. That’s a fair criticism, and as I noted, you were right. It could wait. And I issued an apology to you and others who might have found it inappropriate for the day.
BTW, my family lost a friend that day. He was a fire chief that was witnessed entering the North Tower 4 minutes before its collapse. Somewhat miraculously, even though many rescuers’ families had no traces of their loved ones to bury, they actually found his fireman’s hat. That was what was placed in his coffin.
I had already spent a good part of my day thinking about what we went through on that and the following few days. Perhaps my wanting to vent a little was a result of having done that for most of the day.
Del
September 12th, 2012
9:19 am
McTool says…Cons, take note that those attacks didn’t occur on US soil.
An embassy is considered to be that nations soil within the host country and failing to protect it could be considered an act of war.
cc
September 12th, 2012
9:22 am
gm @ 8:41 am:
I guess you conveniently ‘forgot’ the attack on the World Trade Center during the Clinton years? Don’t let FACTS cloud your teeny little brain, gm. Carry on . . .
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
9:27 am
Yeah, Del, I was going to address Finn’s lack of understanding on THAT issue as well.
As we have seen, CIVILIZED countries consider embassies to be sovereign territory. That is why England didn’t interfere with that fool Assange as he spoke from a balcony in London.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 12th, 2012
9:32 am
Assange is a fool because he works to keep our government officials honest?
I suppose you folks are still po’d at Bernstein and Woodward for exposing the Nixon stuff?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
9:37 am
“Assange is a fool because he works to keep our government officials honest?”
No, he’s a fool for allegedly raping someone and using the U.S. as a scapegoat for not going back to his country to face the charges.
Please try to keep up with reality and not project your moronic conclusions without factual data, OK, Finn?
Del
September 12th, 2012
9:50 am
I wonder if the Commander-n-Chief Narcissist will stay in Washington and address the nation concerning this 9-11-12 Islamic terrorist attack on American soil or fly out to Vegas on Air Force One to do some campaigning.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
9:52 am
He’s scheduled to speak at 10:35, Del. No word on whether he’ll stick to his campaign schedule after that.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 12th, 2012
9:55 am
Consider the story of Bain Capital and Duane Reade. Bain purchased the drugstore chain and hired a CEO who was later convicted of investor fraud, while the chain itself was selling out-of-date drugs and baby formula to its customers.
Duane Reade’s story is not unlike that of Damon International, whose Bain-anointed CEO was convicted for tricking doctors into ordering unnecessary procedures and billing them (ironically enough) to Medicare. Apparently Romney and Bain had an eye for healthcare talent: an evil eye.
But even that isn’t the biggest part of the story. This is: Mitt Romney and Bain Capital were among the first to to engage in the kinds of highly leveraged buyouts of private healthcare companies that pressures them to overtreat patients and overbill payers just to satisfy their investors.
http://www.alternet.org/election-2012/sick-money-how-mitt-romneys-bain-investments-are-exploding-deficit-and-harming-our
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 12th, 2012
9:59 am
he’s a fool for allegedly raping someone
guilty until proven innocent?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
9:59 am
Ah. When exposed for the fallacies and idiocies he posts, Finn resorts to more liberal blog site attacks against Romney and Bain.
MarkV
September 12th, 2012
10:00 am
Some people are so anxious to use tragic news for their political purposes that they do not even wait to get the facts straight.
“An embassy is considered to be that nations soil within the host country and failing to protect it could be considered an act of war.”
“As we have seen, CIVILIZED countries consider embassies to be sovereign territory.”
The US embassy in Libya is in Tripoli, not in Benghazi, where the Ambassador and the other persons were killed. And they were not killed in the consulate there either, but in a car.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
10:16 am
Some people are so anxious to defend the indefensible that they do not even get their facts straight.
Wherever our ambassador is, that’s sovereign U.S. territory.
There is NO excuse for killing an ambassador of ANY nation, and the location of same has no bearing on the crime.
iggy
September 12th, 2012
10:19 am
Those Libyan and Egyptian peaceNiks. Damn hippies.
iggy
September 12th, 2012
10:26 am
For every American killed 1000 muslims should pay the ultimate price. Murder, death, destruction is the only thing these primitives understand and they should receive it, “in abundance.”
Del
September 12th, 2012
10:27 am
“Some people are so anxious to use tragic news for their political purposes that they do not even wait to get the facts straight.”
Some people are so anxious to downplay Islamic terrorism that they don’t even try to understand the laws of international diplomacy.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
10:32 am
The interesting thing about all this is that if Obama and NATO hadn’t interfered in the Libyan uprising, the Islamic fascists might not now be in charge and these killers wouldn’t have been able to protest in the way they did.
Actions have consequences.
iggy
September 12th, 2012
10:41 am
Perhaps if Oprah would give all these radicals a new Pontiac that might resolve the issue.
Oh wait, Pontiac is kaput.
MarkV
September 12th, 2012
10:44 am
“Some people are so anxious to downplay Islamic terrorism that they”
I do not know who has been downplaying Islamic terrorism, but the rest of the above statement is certainly true – some people “don’t even try to understand the laws of international diplomacy.” Such as those who believe that a diplomatic mission – and even a car –is a sovereign territory of the represented state. It is not.
cc
September 12th, 2012
10:45 am
MarkV @ 10:00 am:
“And they were not killed in the consulate there either, but in a car.”
Perhaps they were attempting to flee an embassy under siege?
Are you a muslim?
SBinF
September 12th, 2012
10:46 am
I mostly remember how an administration took the country’s collective goodwill and used it to begin two unfunded wars with no viable victory plan.
And now I see the same “experts” who wrongly called Afghanistan and Iraq marching us toward a similar experience with Iran, shameful.
A sad, sad legacy from a terrible event.
MarkV
September 12th, 2012
10:46 am
“The interesting thing about all this is that if Obama and NATO hadn’t interfered in the Libyan uprising, the Islamic fascists might not now be in charge …”
And pigs might fly.
iggy
September 12th, 2012
10:47 am
Then again had it been a Pontiac Aztec that may have been akin to attempting to extinguish a fire using gasoline.
MarkV
September 12th, 2012
10:48 am
cc @10:45 am
Is your brain working?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
11:04 am
“Such as those who believe that a diplomatic mission – and even a car –is a sovereign territory of the represented state. It is not.”
Tell that to an ambassador.
Epic fail, MarkV.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
11:05 am
Don’t ask a question you can’t answer for yourself, MarkV.
MarkV
September 12th, 2012
11:07 am
“Tell that to an ambassador.
Epic fail, MarkV.”
A typical stupidity, not related to the issue.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
11:11 am
A typical response from you, MarkV, never admitting your faulty information.
MarkV
September 12th, 2012
11:13 am
Tiberius,
Why don’t you try to support your ignorant, faulty information?
Del
September 12th, 2012
11:18 am
MarkV seems to be saying that open season on foreign ambassador’s by mobs isn’t the responsibility of the host state therefore, holding the Libyan government accountable for failing to control the situation that led to the deaths of American diplomats would be inappropriate.
MarkV
September 12th, 2012
11:23 am
Del @11:18 am “MarkV seems to be saying that open season on foreign ambassador’s by mobs isn’t the responsibility of the host state therefore, holding the Libyan government accountable for failing to control the situation that led to the deaths of American diplomats would be inappropriate.”
What “seems” to you, Del, is plain idiocy and falsehood, or your temporary (hopefully) insanity. Show anything I have written that supports your nonsense.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
11:24 am
“Why don’t you try to support your ignorant, faulty information?”
Or better yet, why don’t you debunk CENTURIES of law and precedent to support your foolish argument, MarkV?
Seems like you might be the only person on Earth that doesn’t know that you may not kill another country’s ambassador.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
11:28 am
Del, understand that MarkV is quick to point out that his nebulous statements can’t be used to indict him on his beliefs, because he’ll always say, “I never wrote that” or “Show me where I wrote that”, all the while never making a stand but always finding some way to disagree with others while providing no factual basis for that disagreement.
It is his modus operandi – stand for nothing, complain about everything.
MarkV
September 12th, 2012
11:37 am
When somebody starts a jingoistic rant about “act of war,” (Del @9:19 am), it is time to check the facts. On one hand, we have the fact that the terrorist actions in Libya have been strongly condemned by both the Libyan and US government. Apart from that, some posts here contained false facts, such as the one about “sovereignty” of the diplomatic missions, and even the laughable nonsense that “wherever our ambassador is, that’s sovereign U.S. territory.”
Those, who are really interested in the laws regarding diplomatic missions, might check the pertinent document, The Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, specifically Article 22.
http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/9_1_1961.pdf
Del
September 12th, 2012
11:39 am
MarkV, How about your misinformed ignorant nonsense that you posted at 10:44 am. Worse than your ignorance is that you appear to be relieving the Libyan government from any responsibility. This incident requires a full investigation to determine what level of aid did Libyan authorities render to protect the Ambassador and his staff? Were there any casualties suffered by Libyan police or military attempting to thwart the attack? This just can’t be written off as an unfortunate incident. Libya must cooperate fully in tracking down and bringing those directly responsible to full justice.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
11:41 am
“On one hand, we have the fact that the terrorist actions in Libya have been strongly condemned by both the Libyan and US government.”
Well considering that it was the Libyan “government” that was entrusted to safeguard our embassy and consulates, their “condemnation” rings a bit hollow this morning, MarkV.
MarkV
September 12th, 2012
11:41 am
Tiberius @ 11:24 am: “Seems like you might be the only person on Earth that doesn’t know that you may not kill another country’s ambassador.”
I do not know how many people like Tiberius exist on the Earth, who would make such an idiotic, stupid charge.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
11:47 am
You should have kept reading until at least Article 29, MarkV.
MarkV
September 12th, 2012
11:48 am
Del @11:39 am
“MarkV, How about your misinformed ignorant nonsense that you posted at 10:44 am.”
So why don’t you, Del, provide evidence that what I wrote was “misinformed, ignorant nonsense? That should not be so difficult to do. So I challenge you – put up or shut up.
As for the rest of your post, again, I could not care what I “appear” to you be doing, when it is just a lie. I have no dispute with what you write should be done.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
11:51 am
I don’t see any of your liberal buddies jumping to your defense this morning, MarkV.
I wonder why that is . . . ?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 12th, 2012
11:53 am
For every American killed 1000 muslims should pay the ultimate price.
Mission accomplished. Look at the body count of Iraqi and Afghan civilians from a decade of war.
Del
September 12th, 2012
11:56 am
http://diplomacy.state.gov/discoverdiplomacy/diplomacy101/places/170537.htm
The Deafness Before The Storm
September 12th, 2012
11:57 am
@Lil’ Barry Bailout – Vote American
September 12th, 2012
6:32 am
The Deafness Before The Storm
September 11th, 2012
10:23 pm
———
And you should do something about that hate that’s eating you alive.
*********************************************************************************************
Lil’ Barry YOU are a man WHO literally is what he THINKS.
“A man is literally what he thinks, his character being the complete sum of all his thoughts.”
“As he thinks, so he is; as he continues to think, so he remains.”
Del
September 12th, 2012
12:00 pm
It always amuses me when leftists use one of their favorite buzz words, “jingoistic”.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 12th, 2012
12:05 pm
Yay, Del is amused. We liberals can now go focus on other less important matters!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 12th, 2012
12:06 pm
Mark V doesn’t need to be defended.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 12th, 2012
12:09 pm
Notre Dame to join the ACC?
And which coast are they on?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 12th, 2012
12:14 pm
Wisconsinites will have to deal with two sets of Paul Ryan ads – one as VP and one as Representative.
Ryan is worried…..running skeered
MarkV
September 12th, 2012
12:24 pm
http://diplomacy.state.gov/discoverdiplomacy/diplomacy101/places/170537.htm
WHILE AN EMBASSY REMAINS THE TERRITORY OF THE HOST STATE, under international rules representatives of the host country may not enter an embassy without permission—even to put out a fire.” (My emphasis)
Case closed.
From Benghazi to Cairo to Jerusalem to Damascus, a question: Where does America stand? (Updated) | Kyle Wingfield
September 12th, 2012
12:25 pm
[...] attacks came, of course, on the 11th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks on American [...]
iggy
September 12th, 2012
12:29 pm
Can an embassy be entered, by the host country, for a clogged toilet. Fire is one thing but a clogged toilet is a TRUE emergency.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 12th, 2012
12:30 pm
“WHILE AN EMBASSY REMAINS THE TERRITORY OF THE HOST STATE, under international rules representatives of the host country may not enter an embassy without permission—even to put out a fire.”
Well that certainly explains why nobody tried to put out the rocket-propelled grenade generated “car-b-que” with our ambassador and three others in it.