‘The rich’ can’t bankroll Obama’s big-government plans

Finally, a top Democrat has revealed the cost of following Barack Obama’s plans for the size of the federal government. Unfortunately, his name is not Barack Obama.

Instead, it was Obama’s former top economic adviser, Lawrence Summers, who painted the picture in an op-ed published by the Financial Times.

Now, to be fair, “the cost of following Barack Obama’s plans” is not how Summers put it. Rather, he referred to the cost of “preserving the amount of government functions the U.S. had before the financial crisis,” and he argued this future was inevitable whoever is president come 2013.

The problem with his assertion of inevitable government growth is that Obama and Mitt Romney are not proposing the same things.

It is Obama, not Romney, who argues such a level of government will somehow remain affordable. It is Obama, not Romney, who would have you believe any changes will affect someone else — usually “the rich.”

Still, Summers’ outline of how government would expand if left on auto-pilot is instructive, because it makes clear how untenable Obama’s approach is.

In brief, Summers estimates three leading contributors to larger government in the coming years (he does not use the same time frame for each element) and how much of our gross domestic product their growth would consume:

  • Social Security, Medicare and other programs for retirees, 5.6 percent of GDP;
  • interest payments on the debt, at least 1.5 percent of GDP;
  • inflation in the prices of government-provided services such as health care and education, 3 percent of GDP.

That’s a total increase of 10.1 percent of GDP, or more than $1.5 trillion in the current economy.

Who will pay for such growth? The only answer we’ve heard from Obama and the Democrats is “the rich.”

Let’s go back to 2006 and 2007, the last two years when federal tax receipts as a share of GDP were slightly higher than, and spending as a share of GDP equal to, their post-World War II averages. (I know, I know: That’s not what Democrats would have you believe about Washington’s finances in the age of the Bush tax cuts and wars. But it’s true.) Those were also peak years in terms of earnings by households reporting income of at least $1 million. What better time to soak “the rich”?

Obama’s “Buffett Rule,” named for famed investor Warren Buffett, who likes to talk about paying more taxes but never contributes more voluntarily, would ensure $1 million earners paid at least 30 percent of their income in federal taxes. Using IRS data, we can calculate whether the rule would have paid for the government growth Obama wants.

In 2006 and 2007, taking 30 percent from the $1 million-plus households would have yielded an extra 0.75 percent of GDP compared to what really happened — nowhere near Summers’ 10.1 percent figure.

Taking half of these households’ annual income would have yielded about 2.7 percent of GDP. If Uncle Sam had taken every penny these Americans earned, he’d have gotten 7.4 percent of GDP.

Taking all of their earnings is, of course, completely unrealistic. Certainly, no one would ever again make the mistake of earning so much money. Heck, even Hollywood might — might — abandon Obama and the Democrats.

Still, if Obama somehow pulled it off, the Buffett Rule would barely cover the increase in spending on retirees and interest. He’d still have to get nearly half a trillion dollars more from the rest of us just to pay for health care and education.

This reality is why Romney’s choice of Paul Ryan to be his running mate is so important to the country’s future. With Ryan in the race, Obama can no longer merely talk about narrowing the current budget deficit (which, at more than 7 percent of GDP this year, doesn’t even figure into the above calculations) or putting entitlements on sound financial footing. He has to offer a plan that comes to grips with the truths Summers pointed out.

Five trillion dollars ago, simple “hope” was a glib but effective slogan. Now it has to compete with much trickier “math.”

– By Kyle Wingfield

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385 comments Add your comment

SBinF

August 23rd, 2012
7:13 am

Taxes are as low as they have been since WWII. Government spending as a percentage of GDP is more or less the same as it’s been for the last 60 years.

Please Kyle, stop. Just stop! I’m not sure how you can even determine what the Romney/Ryan plan will do. They refuse to talk about it until after they are elected!

SBinF

August 23rd, 2012
7:15 am

You know Kyle, for the last several days, I feel as though you’ve been trolling your own blog. You arrive at the most harebrained conclusions using the flimsiest of evidence. I enjoyed your blog for a differing opinion, but it seems you’re unraveling along with Romney’s chances at taking the presidency.

Verbal Kint

August 23rd, 2012
7:18 am

Math will torpedo this administration. Simply raising taxes on the top 10% doesn’t compute but it makes the left feel better.

JDW

August 23rd, 2012
7:21 am

@Kyle…perfect example of the problem with Republican thought. Why on earth would you model 2006 and 2007, they were a budget busting failure. Look at 1997 to 2001 there is your starting point.

Thomas Heyward Jr

August 23rd, 2012
7:21 am

‘The rich’ can’t bankroll Obama’s big-government plans nor can the middle-class bankroll the R&D party’s neo-con world empire.
.
See…………….history and/or read Ron Paul.

Verbal Kint

August 23rd, 2012
7:23 am

“It is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high today, and tax revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the tax rates…. [A]n economy constrained by high tax rates will never produce enough revenue to balance the budget, just as it will never create enough jobs or enough profits.” —John F. Kennedy, 1963

Numbers-R-US

August 23rd, 2012
7:24 am

Kyle,

Did you hear the news. The poor can’t afford to bankroll any more tax cuts for the rich and they shouldn’t be asked to sacrifice what little they have left–social security and Medicare and unemployment benefits, etc.–to fund more tax cuts. If the job creators are ever going to create those promised jobs, let them do it with the tax cuts they have amassed over the decades. Or is 13.9% still asking too much in your opinion.

Verbal Kint

August 23rd, 2012
7:28 am

Get Me Rex Kramer

August 23rd, 2012
7:28 am

SBinF, Romney and Ryan are clearly proposing what is inevitable – spending cuts. Obama does not want to cut anything, he wants to spend more. As someone who Obama considers rich and is not paying my fair share, I would actually be OK with higher taxes if I knew serious spending cuts would be made. However, the dems will never agree to this. They would just spend the money on more government programs that don’t work, and cost 10 times more than they were supposed to.

bob

August 23rd, 2012
7:31 am

SBinF, lower for whom ? Some pay nothing and receive welfare. earned income tax credit and other benefits that were not around at the time of WW11. Social Security alone has been raised from about 2% to 10.4%.

Bill

August 23rd, 2012
7:32 am

Yeah, the usual hacks are not here today. I guess that even they had trouble with Kyle’s “journalistic precision”.

Regards,

Get Me Rex Kramer

August 23rd, 2012
7:33 am

JDW, why would you use 1997 – 2001. That was the dot com boom, which was an unprecedented time in our economic history. You should use average years, because that is what you can expect to see over the long run. This is why you end up running defects, because you expect these huge growth years to continue indefinately, which is completely unrealistic.

bob

August 23rd, 2012
7:33 am

Numbers, please tell us how the poor have bankrolled a tax cut for the rich, they pay no federal tax as it is.

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
7:34 am

Government spending as a percentage of GDP is more or less the same as it’s been for the last 60 years.
————

Wrong. Government spending exploded to around 25% of GDP on Obozo’s watch. It had been around 20% since WW II.

You thought you wouldn’t get called on that? Lame.

JDW

August 23rd, 2012
7:35 am

@Verbal Kint…”It is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high today, and tax revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the tax rates”

In 1963 that was the problem. Todays problem is we went too far…

From Politifact

* A person making $2,500 a year in 1963 was taxed at 22 percent. Today that would be $17,445, taxed at 15 percent.

* A person making $5,000 a year in 1963 was taxed at 26 percent. Today that would be $34,890, taxed at 25 percent.

* A person making $10,000 a year in 1963 was taxed at 34 percent. Today that would be $69,780, taxed at 25 percent.

* A person making $15,000 a year in 1963 was taxed at 47 percent. Today that would be $104,670, taxed at 28 percent.

* A person making $25,000 a year in 1963 was taxed at 59 percent. Today that would be $174,450, taxed at 33 percent.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/may/02/hillary-clinton/rates-were-a-lot-higher-back-in-the-day/

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
7:37 am

It’s not about the rich bankrolling Obozo’s spending problem. It’s about getting even with folks who are more successful than your run of the mill parasite Democrat.

JDW

August 23rd, 2012
7:39 am

@Get Me Rex Kramer…”You should use average years”

Why model failure…you remind me of a study I once saw on sales people.

The average purchasing agent buys from a new rep after 7 sales calls.
The average sales person gives up on a new prospect after 4 sales calls.

Average = Failure

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
7:40 am

JDW, rates were higher, and so were deductions. No one paid effective tax rates like the ones you listed.

Nice try though.

GT

August 23rd, 2012
7:47 am

When you went to college some guys were on scholarship others paid full freight. The guys on scholarship didn’t sink the economic boat of the college, they usually were there like that because they couldn’t afford the ride unless someone helped. A lot were academic, many were athletic, but it was usually decided on some talent the student brought to the school.

Republicans want to run this system backwards. The poor and middle class pay full freight and the rich get the free ride. Wouldn’t even mind that if the country was prospering but it is not. And a lot of the reason it is not is because of these rich people not reinvesting or creating. They are allowed to sit on the side lines or even out of this country and watch the rest of us drown. Seems to me a little pain felt when the rest of us are feeling pain is not a bad idea. Particularly since a good argument could be made for the reason this country is in the condition it is in is because of bailing some of these people out anyway ,scholarship for bad decisions, not much talent.

Get Me Rex Kramer

August 23rd, 2012
7:48 am

JDW, spoken like someone who is clueless on how to manage money and budget. I am an experienced and successful sales person, and I would never budget for my future assuming every year will be as good as my very best year. That is how people get into financial trouble in the first place, and it is no different for the government.

Sbinf

August 23rd, 2012
7:50 am

I would say that 20% is close to 25%. Especially given the crying from the right about ballooning government. 5% is a pretty small balloon.

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
7:50 am

Interesting how Politifact presented the tax rates, as if someone making $17,445 today pays 15% of that in income taxes. The ignore that the tax rat on the first $15,000 of that is taxed at 0%.

Politifact: No libtard bias there! And look who fell for it–JDW.

iggy

August 23rd, 2012
7:52 am

Barry hates individual success. He wants everyone to be in the poor house so he can administrate our lives.

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
7:53 am

5% of GDP is “small”?

Laughable. It’s a 25% increase!

You got caught in a lie.

gm

August 23rd, 2012
7:58 am

Lets take a close look at the 5 trillion, two wars that were unfunded, auto had collaps, billions when in to save other Americans jobs, oh I forgot the Rep did not believe in saving other Americans where plants were on the verge of closing.

How many time did we hear about a budget under the last administration? GW had a free hand on destroying this economy, poor Obama actually thought by saving other Americans who life were destroyed he would be looked as a concern President, when he learn no matter what he has done to bring this country out the toliet 75% of white males will always be resentful of him.

What a sick country””””

Joel Edge

August 23rd, 2012
7:58 am

“They refuse to talk about it until after they are elected!”

You have to elect them before we find out what they’re going to do. If it worked for Pelosicare, it works here.

independent thinker

August 23rd, 2012
8:00 am

And the 716 billion dollar lie about Medicare continues on among the sheep and ignorant right wingers. How does 716 billion dollars in cost savings enacted by Obama in a program where the GOP gives away billions of dollars to buy votes in 2003 with free drugs become a theft from the elderly????Yeah keep those lies and medicscare coming. Show me how Mr. Romney will pay for nursing home care for the elderly baby boomers if he plans to cut back Medicaid besides throwing them on the street.What is the plan?

Liberal Pariah

August 23rd, 2012
8:05 am

The Bureau of Labor Statistics will report its August unemployment figures, the next-to-last report before the November election, on September 7th, about the time many people start giving the election serious thought. It’s been said that the campaign doesn’t start until after Labor Day. With Gallup reporting last Friday that 1 in 4 American workers are either unemployed or underemployed — not counting the millions of folks who’ve given up looking for work — how’s that hope and change workin for the guy who said he’d be a one-termer if he didn’t fix the economy. Or would be if it’s reported by the MSM who is shilling for him.
It’s about the economy stupid!!! And Obama has not only failed, Liberals can’t even tell you what his plan is.

An Observer

August 23rd, 2012
8:06 am

The economy is terrible. Let’s just go ahead and kill it to put it out of its misery.

ktbl

August 23rd, 2012
8:10 am

There is a few things that all of our elected officials already know. First, they sit and watch the economy grows right under their nose; but their pay can support them and their family. Secondly, you and I have to struggle to ensure our bills and families responsibilities are taken care of on the small amount we are paid; Third, when you have rich…..looking to get rich and paying no taxes, we foot those bills because they get everything free and it is much better on our dime. Fourth, we are paying for everybody else mistakes regardless if you know that or know, it is just like parking on the streets, the law says that you have to park somewhere so the streets is the place. Now to comment on everyone else opinions, it do not matter who win the office of the President, because already it said that our current President has not done enough for this economy, he fail in so many areas; Romney will repeal everything include healthcare so we would be right back where we started; then, we are killing ourselves, we make things so expensive and put them out of reach for so many until people merely sit on their hard earn cash; we are fighting gas prices which we should not but you don’t see anyone stepping in to change things; as I said, we are our own worse enemy because we know our own government whom we pay taxes to don’t step in to help you nor me so why are we making bad opinions or statements about those in offcie when we elect them back into it over and over again! I am not stupid knowing that when we can’t even purchase food here in america when we have so much of it……I look at the greed that is behind it, we are paying to much to live here in America when it should have to be that way. New York, California, Virginia etc., where people are pay8ing so much to live……and when the businesses you are employed with fire, lay you off or cut back, that say’s a lot about the America way of life we live in. It is all about being rich and the greed that cause us to hurt ourselves especially in the direction we are living in. I don’t blame anyone for being the way they are; we have been tricked over and over again about our state and federal government; they only want to take from us and rather then give back or help……..we have not gotten that at all but a continuation of our taxes that they tries to always take form us! No matter who you want to take office, I think you better start thinking how you and your family are going to make it; because its going to get worse before it get better and if it is all about money; spending while those who are elected into office, that too, kills the notion that we are moving forward………someone has to repay that money back and its going to be us!

SBinF

August 23rd, 2012
8:10 am

“5% of GDP is “small”?

Laughable. It’s a 25% increase!

You got caught in a lie.”

Over 70 years….really?

Liberal Pariah

August 23rd, 2012
8:10 am

Every time Obama mentions Bain it just reminds people that Romney has actual fiscal experience. Maybe if Obama had spend some time at Bain instead of organizing the community, he might have an idea of how to fix things. And by the way, he did not save the auto industry, he saved the unions that supported him. GM is still in big financial trouble and the US will lose around $25 billion on Barry’s big save.

SBinF

August 23rd, 2012
8:12 am

Ryan might have a bit more credibility if he had not voted for all of the things that increased the deficit. Where was this “deficit hawk” during the Bush administration? It seems the only time Republicans care about spending is when there is a Democrat in the White House.

Still waiting on Ryan’s plans. How will he overhaul the tax system? What deductions does he plan to scrap? It’s anyone’s guess….he refuses to answer these questions before the election. We should simply trust him. Yeah, fat chance….

Liberal Pariah

August 23rd, 2012
8:14 am

Obama has refused to give us a plan OR A BUDGET for 4 years now. Where’s the Liberal outrage??????

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

August 23rd, 2012
8:15 am

Aahhh, yes, but the fatal condition will be

A president who mismanages the federal budget the way Obama does cannot be expected to manage his campaign budget much better. Lavish spending, it turns out, is a way of life for the community organizer who became our 44th president. Lavish spending on Campaign 2012 will be looked back on and seen as one of the campaign’s greatest weaknesses. He can spend the money, but my guess is he will not be able to raise it.- AmSpec

No, he won’t, but he’ll steal it from the Treasury. You might want to check out what I’m sayin before all the money is gone.

Liberal Pariah

August 23rd, 2012
8:16 am

If you voted for Obama to prove you’re not a racist in 2008, you’d better vote for Romney in 2012 to prove you’re not an idiot”

Verbal Kint

August 23rd, 2012
8:16 am

Why are you waiting on “Ryan’s Plans”? Is he running for President? That’s like me asking where is Biden’s plan (other than opening his mouth and sticking his foot in it)

gm

August 23rd, 2012
8:19 am

Help me to understand this? if I am between the ages 40-55 and have been paying in to medicaid all my life, when I reach 67 you are going to give me a vocher thats only worth around $1500 and I am responsible for the rest, but yet I have paid thousands in the program over 20 years.

Only a spoil rich bratt like Paul Ryan can come up with this, poor, middle class whites on the right can not be this naive, I would not care if Obama was green, I am backing who is protecting my interest””””’

Verbal Kint

August 23rd, 2012
8:21 am

“Spoil Rich Brat like Paul Ryan” – Really? Did you know that 7 out of the top 10 richest people in Congress are……Gasp….Democrats?

Numbers-R-US

August 23rd, 2012
8:21 am

Numbers, please tell us how the poor have bankrolled a tax cut for the rich, they pay no federal tax as it is.

Through all the taxes they pay in those jobs that the job creators have created thanks to those Bush tax cuts. DUH!

SBinF

August 23rd, 2012
8:22 am

“Why are you waiting on “Ryan’s Plans”?”

Romney picked the guy. He chose to make this an issue. Romney’s plan is Ryan’s plan. The two are inextricably linked.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

August 23rd, 2012
8:23 am

The money quote -

Mr. Obama is casting his net for the moron vote. I do not believe that there are enough morons out there to reelect him. – AmSpec

Tax the rich, war on women, grandma over the cliff, here moron-moron-moron, gotchya!

SBinF

August 23rd, 2012
8:24 am

The war on women….lol.

Todd Akin is a democrat plant…is that what you’re arguing?

UIC

August 23rd, 2012
8:24 am

What right wing organization is paying you to write this stuff? If you cannot advance the discussion with a reasoned article, don’t bother. If I wanted to hear the opinion of fox news, I’d turn on the TV.

George P. Burdell

August 23rd, 2012
8:25 am

The idea that government spending has stayed the same since WWII is ridiculous. Since 1949, which is when spending got back to normal following the WWII buildup, government spending has increased by a factor of 90. GDP has increased by a factor of 57. If government spending had stayed at the same level, it would currently be at about 2.3 trillion, not 3.5 trillion. Now why does that 1.2 trillion number seem so familiar when we are talking about deficits?

MiltonMan

August 23rd, 2012
8:26 am

“Republicans want to run this system backwards. The poor and middle class pay full freight and the rich get the free ride.”

Good God. GT is in full ignorance mode. Majority of college scholarships today are need-based and not merit-based. This does not include the “poor” (i.e., APS educated) who show up at college doorsteps and can barely read, write or conduct simple math problems – therefore needing remedial training.

kayaker 71

August 23rd, 2012
8:26 am

Bozo’s economic recovery is a joke. We are still at over 8% unemployment and have been for 42 straight months. Our growth rate is stalled at an astounding 1.5%. We have accumulated a debt of over 5T dollars in the last 4 years. More homes underwater, more foreclosures,,,,,,, does this sound like recovery to you? The only ones stupid enough to believe him are his Democratic sheep. It ain’t working, libs. It never has.

SBinF

August 23rd, 2012
8:27 am

And why call people with whom you disagree morons?

Obama carries the college educated vote by a hefty margin. I guess all that book learnin’ and those folks with undergraduate and advanced degrees are morons?

Why not just disagree without hurling insults? I’m hardly a moron, and I plan to vote for Obama. I graduated from a tier I research university, and am currently pursuing an advanced degree. Am I still a moron? I work a job (and another on the side), pay taxes, and contribute to society…yet my support for Obama makes me a moron intrinsically?

independent thinker

August 23rd, 2012
8:31 am

In 2005 the cost for the Medicare Part D give away passed by the GOP and Bush was estimated to cost over 1.2 trillion dollars in ten years. There was no funding source. Guess how mr. Deficit Cutter from Wisconsin voted?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9328-2005Feb8.html
Please explain how this is Obama’s fault.???????????????????

Liberal Pariah

August 23rd, 2012
8:32 am

Must be the indoctrination factor for the college educated cited here. It is not education but ignorance that would allow someone to support the epic failure that this President has been.

kayaker 71

August 23rd, 2012
8:35 am

SBinF, 8:27,

Yes.

Junior Samples

August 23rd, 2012
8:36 am

Liberal Pariah

August 23rd, 2012
8:37 am

Us real conservatives admit that Bush and GOP were acting like Liberals with Part D. But your Messiah was going to hope and change everything better. He said he would solve these problems and make it better. Hasn’t happened. Both parties have caused the problem, I would like to see it fixed

Numbers-R-US

August 23rd, 2012
8:38 am

The agreed upon change is on the way. I believe it is called sequestration.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

August 23rd, 2012
8:39 am

You are what you eat, SB. And I don’t believe that Akin had the intention of bombing and strafing any women he ran across. He was just articulating some of the medieval discussions they must be having over there in Misserah.

I always wondered how they conjured up with Claire McCaskill.

Rush

August 23rd, 2012
8:40 am

Would someone hurry up and hire SBinF while they still know it all? Apparently this “tier I research university” individual does not understand simple math. Apparently Econ 101 was not taught at this “research facility”.

Liberal Pariah

August 23rd, 2012
8:40 am

And this budget was passed when? And it has done what for the country?
Crickets chirping…..

Verbal Kint

August 23rd, 2012
8:41 am

Speaking of promises, I think this graph explains what this admin has promised and what has been reality:

http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/OBAMAUNEMPLOYMENTFAILCHART.jpg

Rush

August 23rd, 2012
8:42 am

Tier I research university and holding down a job and finding time to blog incessantly most of the day. Do tell us how you are able to do it, SB?

jms

August 23rd, 2012
8:43 am

We have been living beyond our means for years. Households have been adjusting their expectations the past few years and it’s time for government to do the same.

Centrist

August 23rd, 2012
8:44 am

Unless you fall for the sloganeering, you know the Buffet rule is about “fairness” and not relatively much tax revenue – because there are so few affected. The top .02% of incomes (300,000 Americans – one out of every 500 taxpayers) make more than a million a year – some pay no or little in taxes – that AMT didn’t catch them like middle class taxpayers. Their income is not mostly wages like those heavily marginally taxed, and losing exemptions and deductions for lesser incomes. Those lower capital gains rate taxes, credits, loopholes, tax free municipal bonds, tax free Master Limited Partnerships and trusts were made for them by BOTH Democrats and Republican politicians. They inherited, created successful corporations, are senior Fortune 500 management, Wall Street brokers, politicians, entertainment and sports stars. The government has kept many of them on top with all of those billions of dollars in bailouts. Not coincidentally, this is where most of campaign contributions come from so they will ALWAYS be protected from paying taxes like “the little people”. Neither party is going to allow a Buffet rule to pass.

The top .01% make over $2 million a year and are often referred to as the “mega-rich”. The odds of getting here is one out of a thousand – and you better be very smart, ambitiously driven, extremely talented, super star athletic, unbelievably lucky, marry well, or inherit/ born into it.

iggy

August 23rd, 2012
8:44 am

Verbal Kint

August 23rd, 2012
8:41 am

The chart says it all.

Numbers-R-US

August 23rd, 2012
8:52 am

Given so many cons exclaiming the need for math to solve our budget problems, one might be misled into believing that they have put forward a budget that actually reduces the debt while accomplishing all the miraculous things Romney and Ryan proclaim while on the campaign trail such as cutting taxes again for the wealthy, not cutting anyone’s social security or medicare, taking care of the needy by providing them with instructions for grasping their bootstraps, increasing the military budget, paying off two wars, paying for the Bush tax cuts, paying for the prescription drug plan, paying down the debt, funding veteran’s healthcare, keeping all the good in the ACA such as not allowing insurance companies to rescind policies or deny coverage due to pre-existing conditions without requiring anyone to purchase coverage, create 12 million jobs in four years, etc. Okay, I’m game. Show us the math.

Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy

August 23rd, 2012
8:56 am

Obama is waging a War on Common Sense. None of his policies, make any kind of economic sense. His only economic plan is to raise taxes on the wealthy. The top 10% pay 75% of the taxes now, but he says there is more blood in that turnip. Numbers as Kyle pointed out, prove that there is not a significant amount of money left in the turnip, so, it is time he came up with a workable plan to lower the deficit.

He knows how to fix the economy but as he says plainly for all to hear, he is not going back to what worked before. He says he wants an economy that works for ALL, and he will not accept the prosperous economy of Kennedy and Reagan as some were “left out”.

With that kind of utopia as your goal, you are destined to fail. Bring back what worked for 90% of us, and let us then figure out how to provide for the unprepared, unmotivated, and unable.

Glenn

August 23rd, 2012
8:56 am

I feel more and more that we just waste so much money and both parties are responsible for that . I just wish there was a way to make a concerted effort to deal with waste and fraud then see where we stand revenue wise . We should demand that our government run more efficiently .

PROUD NAVY VET

August 23rd, 2012
8:56 am

I see the commericals on TV talking about how fair the new staff at the AJC is. You are anything but. Everyday I see your headline and I can’t stand the thought of reading what you have written because it’s so negitive. Your what America does not need. There is someone like you on the other side too and I wish they would disappear too. Neither side has all of the answers, but it’s people like you that prevent an answer from being found. It’s amazing that people who make less then 100k are going to suffer under what Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan are pushing. The most unbelievable thing is America has no idea what the finished product will be, (I have a great used car to sell you!!). The President came into office and the entire world knows what a mess he had. Caused by some of the same things Mr. Romney wants to enact. The GOP acts like he caused this. Thats what so amazing to me is they have the nerve to blame him. Mr. Romney would have let the American auto industry fold, unreal.
You are a piece of work. The biggest indicator of who Mr. Romney is, is the fact he will not release his tax info and the repubs had a stroke about a birth cert? His own father was the first to do so and as we all know he released 12 years worth. That’s about as shady as a person running for office can get. What is he wanting to jeep secrect?

Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy

August 23rd, 2012
9:13 am

Two things the libs never accept in their arguments, why, because their argument would implode.

If you are under 55, Ryan’s plan gives you the option of accepting the voucher or remaining in the current Medicare program. So, what are you whining about gm? They also imply that if you accept the voucher you are going to be worse off than if you kept tradional medicare. They do not have one inkling of what medicare will look like in 20 years, so how do they justify this statement. They compare the “voucher” with Medicare today, which is due to change.

Part D, was pushed by Bush over objections from many of us, that knew the program was not affordable and would cost much more than projected, as do all government programs. This was a program supported by the Dems. Instead of doing the right thing and trying to repeal the program, Obama doubled down and grew the program, closing the donut hole, he so proudly proclaims. He make the program over the top and more outrageous than when it was conceived by Bush.

Verbal Kint

August 23rd, 2012
9:15 am

Numbers – Can you cite where Romney/Ryan say that the only “tax cuts they want is for the rich?” Please. They want to reduce tax RATES across the board for everyone. EVERYONE. Why? Because it has been shown to increase economic activity which leads to more jobs, a bigger tax base and more revenue. But, that’s not going to cut it alone. Spending cuts must be made and some of them are going to be tough. Obama has not offered any such plan other than tax those making above a certain amount and keep on spending!

The auto bailout, Proud Navy Vet (thanks for your service), is costing you and I $25 billion right now. The only people bailed out in that arrangement was the UAW. Instead of going through a normal bankruptcy proceeding and having everyone start from scratch, Obama choose to help his base, the unions.

Pizzaman

August 23rd, 2012
9:16 am

Two facts we all have to deal with: the cost of everything is going up and the current tax structure doesn’t fill the need. A reasonable and comprehensive increase in taxes and decrease in government spending will be required. But with all our Congresspeople and Senators in the pocket of special interests this will never happen. The AJC recently reported that 26 CEO’s are paid more than their company pays in taxes. And why is that? Because they know all the loopholes to keep their company from paying taxes. Till every wage earned, business and trust fund baby pays the same percentage and there are no deductions, taxes will never be fair and we’ll never see no debt or balanced budget. Who’s willing to sacrifice?

Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy

August 23rd, 2012
9:17 am

Proud Navy Vet

You criticize Kyle for partisanship and then launch into the most partisan hack job of supporting our Disaster in Chief, I have read in some time. You need to leave the Obama echo chamber and get some fresh air.

Centrist

August 23rd, 2012
9:17 am

@ PROUD NAVY VET – Thanks for your service.

Those making over $100K are in the highest tax brackets in the land, and their effective tax rates go yet higher since their exemptions and deductions are phased out. These upper middle class workers are squeezed the hardest and pay most of the taxes. Many of these taxpayers are dual income families who have and paid for post college graduate degrees and specialized apprentice training while living in relative poverty like some eventually successful doctors, dentists, lawyers, scientists, engineers, architects, international airline Captains, accountants, superintendents, high level administrators, etc. Many others are finally successful small businesses which employ most of the workforce. They typically remain in this category for short periods of time. Once retired, they mostly drop back down in income. Trying to get more from them simply is not viable.

Steven

August 23rd, 2012
9:19 am

Oh give me a break Mr Wingfoot, lay down your bias to the president for a moment. They need to pay like err’body else!

Scott Fresno

August 23rd, 2012
9:22 am

“Warren Buffett, who likes to talk about paying more taxes but never contributes more voluntarily”

During the TSPLOST debate, I heard a lot of people say that we should increase the gas tax instead. If all those people are not now voluntarily paying a higher gas tax, does that mean they were not sincere in their belief or that their proposal was flawed?

Hillbilly D

August 23rd, 2012
9:26 am

I feel more and more that we just waste so much money and both parties are responsible for that.

That goes for state and local government as well as the Federal. Basically, Americans are just a wasteful people. We sit in lines at drive-thrus and waste gas instead of walking in, we use a water hose to clean off driveways instead of a broom, we used disposable razors instead of changing razor blades, we buy cheap merchandise (several times) rather than pay a little more for something that will last, and on and on.

There’s plenty of waste in government but there’s plenty outside of government, as well. The government pretty well reflects those of us who elect it. And you’re right, both parties are responsible.

independent thinker

August 23rd, 2012
9:34 am

Numbers are US- You are at the wrong blog if you want solutions to the GOP overspending that got us in this mess- just blame Obama and call him a socialist and numbers are irrellevant in this blog.
Ask Kyle to explain where the funding for free emergency room care came from passed by Reagan called EMTALA. By the way it is the only true socialist medical plan ever passed in the US.

Numbers-R-US

August 23rd, 2012
9:34 am

Can you cite where Romney/Ryan say that the only “tax cuts they want is for the rich?” Please. They want to reduce tax RATES across the board for everyone. EVERYONE.

Here you go, Verbal. Unless you were being literal with your request. Surely you were not asking me to provide a video of him saying the specific words you put in quotes, were you.

While Romney would bring taxes for top incomes down to 28 percent, Ryan has proposed bringing the top rate down even lower, to 25 percent. Meanwhile, Ryan’s plan would actually increase the effective tax rate on the very poorest Americans by getting rid of tax breaks that benefit low earners..

Now it’s your turn. Show me how Romney/Ryan are going to reduce tax rates across the board for everyone.

Just saying..

August 23rd, 2012
9:41 am

“This reality is why Romney’s choice of Paul Ryan to be his running mate is so important to the country’s future.”

Because:
By himself, Romney couldn’t persuade the electorate.
By himself, Romney might revert to his Mass Governor iteration.
By himself, Romney can’t be trusted to be “severely conservative”.

You guys comfortable you have your GOP ticket positions correct?

Kyle Wingfield

August 23rd, 2012
9:44 am

SBinF @ 7:13: Taxes are at such a low point because unemployment is at such a high point: If people aren’t working, they aren’t paying taxes. Btw, the average from 1946 to 2008 was 17.8% of GDP. The average from 2002 to 2008 — i.e., with the Bush tax cuts, but before the financial crisis — was 17.4% of GDP. Pretty darn close to the years when tax rates were higher.

And no, spending as a percentage of GDP is not “more or less the same” as the past 60 years: The average from 1946 to 2008 was 19.6%. The average from 2009-2012 is 24.4% — almost a quarter higher.

Kyle Wingfield

August 23rd, 2012
9:48 am

JDW @ 7:21: “Budget-busting failure”? The deficit as a percentage of GDP in those years averaged 1.6%, which is a tick below the post-WW2 historical average (1.7%). It’s also a tick below the average from 1994-1997 (also 1.7%), i.e. after Clinton raised income taxes but, crucially, before he cut capital-gains taxes. The subsequently higher cap-gains tax revenues are largely responsible for the good revenue performance of 1998-2001.

Btw, data for this and my previous comment come from here.

Just saying..

August 23rd, 2012
9:49 am

“‘The rich’ can’t bankroll Obama’s big-government plans”

Kyle, your column is much better than the headline. I don’t believe serious people remotely imagine “The rich” can fund our government. The debate’s focus is “What is a fair share?” in a country that boasts a progressive tax system.

Kyle Wingfield

August 23rd, 2012
9:52 am

Number-R-US @ 7:24: Did you hear the news? The “poor” — which I’m defining as those who report less than $20,000 a year in income, even though some of those people probably are not poor (e.g., they are teenagers filing for their summer-job income, even though they still live with their middle- to upper-class parents) — filed 35 percent of the tax returns in the years I discussed in the OP, but paid less than 1% of the income taxes. So, how exactly are they “bankrolling” tax cuts for anyone?

Kyle Wingfield

August 23rd, 2012
9:56 am

SBinF @ 8:10: It’s not a 25% increase over the course of 70 years. It’s a 25% (inflation-adjusted) increase compared to what was deemed sufficient for 70 years. And no, the “stimulus” does not explain all or even most of it.

Numbers-R-US

August 23rd, 2012
10:00 am

The average from 1946 to 2008 was 19.6%. The average from 2009-2012 is 24.4%

A 62-year span versus a 3 year span. Why stop at 1946, Kyle, when there’s 1929 just ready and waiting for you to cherry pick it. Better yet, why not compare the Great Recession to the Great Depression if you really wanted to get closer to an apples-to-apples comparison.

Verbal Kint

August 23rd, 2012
10:02 am

“Surely you were not asking me to provide a video of him saying the specific words you put in quotes, were you.”

Yes. I was. And, of course, you can’t. All you can do is cite a Washington Post report about Paul Ryan’s PROPOSED tax plan so that must make it true. Of course, Ryan isn’t running for President last time I checked. You think that Romney might have a plan? Perhaps you should expand your resource search beyond Bookman, the NYT, and the Washington Post.

Kyle Wingfield

August 23rd, 2012
10:04 am

gm @ 8:19: If you’re really trying to “understand this,” you could start by collecting the correct facts.

The Ryan-Wyden plan — which is not necessarily what a President Romney would do, but it’s probably pretty close — is to set the voucher (which Democrats, many of whom support the concept, call “premium support” even though it’s the exact same thing) at the level currently spent per Medicare patient. Then there will be competitive bidding among providers including both private operators and the traditional Medicare plan. The voucher/premium support will be set every year at the level of the second-cheapest bidder, which means a person could either pocket a little money, break even or pay extra depending on which coverage they pick. And it doesn’t apply to anyone over 55 today.

So, you lost it at “$1,500.”

Numbers-R-US

August 23rd, 2012
10:05 am

Well just darn Kyle, you should just take those poor teen’s earnings that they paid payroll taxes on and used the remainder to pay for books and parking fees at college away from them and give it to the Koch boys. How do you propose doing that, Kyle. Will you eliminate the standard deduction and individual exemption so they will be taxed on every dollar. Will you be fair and eliminate all deductions and exemptions across the board for everyone and then extract payroll taxes on all earnings including dividends and capital gains. Come on Kyle, you can do better than that.

Voice of Reason

August 23rd, 2012
10:06 am

Pretty sure my faith in humanity is gone. It literally hurts my head to read some of these comments. I think I’m done with politics forever. I can’t stand the stupidity.

Kyle Wingfield

August 23rd, 2012
10:11 am

Steven @ 9:19: If they paid “like everybody else,” they’d pay less. See here, most recent table I can find. It hasn’t changed much. I think CBO might have one somewhere that has 1-2 more years of data. Not much has changed.

Kyle Wingfield

August 23rd, 2012
10:12 am

Scott Fresno @ 9:22: Unlike with the gas tax, the Treasury already has a procedure set up for those who would like to make an extra contribution.

Numbers-R-US

August 23rd, 2012
10:15 am

The poor bankrolling tax cuts for the wealthiest, Part Deux. Of course that’s okay by Kyle because he claims that those so-called poor are just the job stealing snot nosed brats that live at home and mooch off their parents. What a line. You should frame that one, Kyle.

cc

August 23rd, 2012
10:18 am

“‘The rich’ can’t bankroll Obama’s big-government plans”

Duh . . . the rich, the middle class and the poor combined can’t “bankroll Obama’s big-government plans”, and that is as Obama intends. Obama is driving the U. S. to the cliff’s edge with spending and fully intends to push it off that cliff. His (Obama’s) intent is to collapse the economy of the U. S. – a play straight out of Alinsky’s playbook. Obama has increased the national indebtedness by over $6 trillion in only three and a half years. Forty cents of every dollar spent by the federal government is BORROWED money. The increased indebtedness coupled with ‘quantitative easing’ is a formula that will produce financial disaster and civil unrest as has never before been seen in America.

The unemployment rate is above 8% by the government’s admission but in reality the unemployment rate is far above 10%. There are fewer people working today than when Obama assumed the Presidency even though the available workforce is much larger.

The people getting the ‘free stuff’ now will vote to re-elect Obama not realizing that the collapse of the economy will end their gravy train. When the people who produce cannot or will not produce any longer, there is nothing for the ‘takers’ to take.

Hang on to your hats, folks, ‘cause you ain’t seen nothing yet!

Kyle Wingfield

August 23rd, 2012
10:18 am

Numbers-R-US @ 9:34: Romney is on record saying “high-income people would continue to pay the same share of the tax burden that they do today.” The studies you cite make assumptions about the details of his plan that are inconsistent with that principle.

Now, as I’ve pointed out before, it would be easier for Romney to make his case and refute these assumption-laden “studies” if he released more details.

SBinF

August 23rd, 2012
10:20 am

No one can argue the specifics or Romney’s plan because it has no specifics. He’ll fill us in on the details after we elect him.

“Taxes are at such a low point because unemployment is at such a high point: If people aren’t working, they aren’t paying taxes.”

Uhh, what? I’m not talking about revenue…

“Americans are paying the smallest share of their income for taxes since 1958, a reflection of tax cuts and a weak economy, a USA TODAY analysis finds.”

“The total tax burden — for all federal, state and local taxes — dropped to 23.6% of income in the first quarter, according to Bureau of Economic Analysis data.
By contrast, individuals spent roughly 27% of income on taxes in the 1970s, 1980s and the 1990s — a rate that would mean $500 billion of extra taxes annually today, one-third of the estimated $1.5 trillion federal deficit this year.
The analysis comes as President Obama and Congress debate whether to cut federal spending, raise taxes or both.”

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2011-05-05-tax-cut-record-low_n.htm

Kyle Wingfield

August 23rd, 2012
10:21 am

Numbers-R-US @ 10:00: Cherry-picking? 1946 is the most commonly used starting point by economists because it comes after a) the growth of the income tax into the kind of system we know today (i.e., not just a system of relatively low rates for a relatively small number of people) and b) the huge surge in spending associated with the war effort.

cc

August 23rd, 2012
10:22 am

Kyle Wingfield:

Another great article! Keep up the good work!

Kyle Wingfield

August 23rd, 2012
10:25 am

Numbers-R-US @ 10:05: Either you missed or you choose to ignore my point @ 9:52, which was simply to note that not everyone who makes less than $20,000 a year is truly “poor” because they aren’t depending solely on that income. I never said I thought we should raise their taxes. I will observe, however, that you’ve also dodged my larger point, which is that the people making less than $20,000 a year do not pay enough taxes to be “bankrolling” anyone else’s tax cuts.

retiredds

August 23rd, 2012
10:26 am

If any thinking person believes that the Ryan-Romney budget plans are going to solve the deficit problems then you are wishful thinkers. The only way to cure the deficit problem is to let the sequester take place, face the economic results as they fall, and then implement a Constitutional Amendment to balance the federal budget. Take the budget process away from the politicians and you will have balanced budgets (i.e. states that have this requirement are the prime example).

However this won’t happen because of all the screaming and hollering that would result because the fallout would hit every American and business (”I’m already paying too much in taxes”). So much for anyone in this country wanting to do anything to solve the budget and deficit problems.

If you disagree with this that’s fine by me.

They BOTH suck

August 23rd, 2012
10:27 am

Kyle

We need across the board cuts. Clinton rates phased back in over a few years as well as a revamping of the EITC.

No one should be getting back a check more than they paid in.

Verbal Kint

August 23rd, 2012
10:28 am

“No one can argue the specifics or Romney’s plan because it has no specifics. He’ll fill us in on the details after we elect him.”

Are you really going to say something like this after Pelosi from 2009 (”You have to pass the Healthcare law to see what’s in it”)

Wow. Talk about short memory spans.

Kyle Wingfield

August 23rd, 2012
10:29 am

SBinF @ 10:20: Big whiff on your part. The USA Today story is still talking about average taxes paid per person, which means it’s including people who aren’t paying taxes because they’re out of work, or in addition who are paying less in taxes now than before because they’re forced to take part-time work rather than full-time work due to the poor labor market. My original point still applies.

They BOTH suck

August 23rd, 2012
10:30 am

Verbal

Why should Romney be given a pass because of Pelosi’s stupidity?

Do you let any of your kids do something wrong because the other one did something wrong?

That is precisely what is the problem on both sides of the aisle. It is all a bs “got you” game.

Kyle Wingfield

August 23rd, 2012
10:31 am

They BOTH @ 10:27: Actually, there’s a very good (and fiscally conservative) case to be made for increasing the EITC and cutting out a whole host of government programs intended to help the same people. I’ll try to find time to write that up one day.

SBinF

August 23rd, 2012
10:33 am

Is it a weak economy? Who knows….but it’s silliness to complain about Obama and burdensome taxes. (Unwisely in my opinion) he extended Bush’s tax cuts. And where do we arrive at the conclusion that Obama doesn’t want spending cuts? He has thrown spending cuts on the table, the GOP balked. If there is no agreement reached, there will be spending cuts across the board next year.

I just don’t get the tax and spend liberal moniker for him.

They BOTH suck

August 23rd, 2012
10:36 am

Kyle

As one who leans left and would debate / argue with you on certain programs the EITC to needs change.

Maybe not done away with, but change. I can see a break even, but a check back?

And as I noted, cuts across the board, so they would include every and anything.

I’m not for privatizing SS, but there needs to be a change of the age and benefits.

Just saying..

August 23rd, 2012
10:37 am

Voice of Reason
August 23rd, 2012: 10:06 am-”Pretty sure my faith in humanity is gone. It literally hurts my head to read some of these comments. I think I’m done with politics forever. I can’t stand the stupidity.

I feel your pain.

They BOTH suck

August 23rd, 2012
10:38 am

Kyle

Look forward to your EITC article.

Thanks for the reply.

Numbers-R-US

August 23rd, 2012
10:40 am

Kyle, see my 10:15 link. I dodged nothing. Further, if you wish to delve into the Bush tax cuts, we can see how those unfunded cuts along with unfunded wars and drug company benefits and borrowing to cover the difference have led us to this point where Republicans proclaim that the poor that utilize social security and medicare and medicaid and food stamps, etc. must pull themselves up by their bootstraps so the wealthiest can have another tax cut and the defense budget can be increased. And I asked you to comapre time periods that are more apples to apples, not make up an excuse for comparing a 62-year period to a 3-year period. The Great Recession more closely resembles the economics of the the Great Depression–not the previous 62-year average. Kyle, it is you that dodges the truth.

Verbal Kint

August 23rd, 2012
10:41 am

Who says I’m giving Romney a pass? This adminstration has been so vague about their plans and yet the retort against Romney is “he’s not specific enough”.

If anything, I believe that Romney and Ryan would work with boths sides of the aisle to work this out. Obama has talked a great game about unity but he has failed miserably in that department. Geithner testifying on the hill about Ryan’s budget plan saying we don’t have a plan but we know we don’t like yours pretty much sums up the “bipartisanship” effort by this administration.

We need people that are willing to work with both groups (dems and repubs) to solve the problems we face. Personally, I think Romney and Ryan will make that effort. I base this upon Romney’s works as governor of a heavily democratic MASS. and many democrats/independents expressing their views on Ryan’s ability to come up with a semblence of a plan.

Scott Fresno

August 23rd, 2012
10:43 am

“Unlike with the gas tax, the Treasury already has a procedure set up for those who would like to make an extra contribution.”

Does that mean that you think that if the state set up such a procedure for the gas tax, anyone who had advocated for a higher gas tax instead of the the TSPLOST was being disingenuous if they do not pay it? That is silly.

ragnar danneskjold

August 23rd, 2012
11:02 am

Obama has long ago proven he has no grasp on economics, or even simple math. His orientation is not to produce a “sound” economy, but rather one controlled from the top. He is the First Commissar of the United States.

Will

August 23rd, 2012
11:04 am

I’ve got to hand it to republican newspaper writters and republican tv/radio entertainers – like their republican cohorts, their devotion to, and protection of, the wealthy and Wall Street is total, uncompromising and absolute.

For eight long years of Bush tax cuts that were supposed to stimulate and grow the economy, republicans never once backed away as the Bush Administration drove the economy into the deepest ditch since the Great Depression.

Politics is not complicated – if your devotion to the rich is absolute, vote the republican ticket in November.

Will

August 23rd, 2012
11:04 am

I’ve got to hand it to republican newspaper writters and republican tv/radio entertainers – like their republican cohorts, their devotion to, and protection of, the wealthy and Wall Street is total, uncompromising and absolute.

For eight long years of Bush tax cuts that were supposed to stimulate and grow the economy, republicans never once backed away as the Bush Administration drove the economy into the deepest ditch since the Great Depression.

Politics is not complicated – if your devotion to the rich is absolute, vote the republican ticket in November.

@@

August 23rd, 2012
11:04 am

The rich’ can’t bankroll Obama’s big-government plans

I would have used “EVEN the rich can’t bankroll Obama’s big-government plans.

And the left was so hoping that someone else’s money could funnel through the government (their preferred middleman.)

Wholesale brokers, they ain’t. Holesale brokers, they is.

schnirt

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
11:06 am

The facts are that economic growth increased and unemployment decreased after Our President Bush implemented His tax cuts.

Don’t fear facts.

beam me up

August 23rd, 2012
11:06 am

Both sides are living a lie. As you point out, without directly saying so, current spending levels cannot be continued without increasing taxes on the middle class as well as higher income households. That is the Democratic lie. Is it absolutely necessary that this happen in the next couple of years? Probably not, but it would have to happen sometime. They should own up to that, but it wouldn’t be politically expedient.

The Republican lie is that cutting taxes for high income households will will somehow magically cure the deficit and that there are just loads of painless cuts to be made. Look at the panic that the possibility of the “sequester” taking effect is having, and that is really just a drop in the bucket of what would have to happen to accomodate lower tax revenues. They should own up to just what they would cut and let us have a discussion of what that entails, but that would not be politically expedient either.

So, we end up with this great merry-go-round of lies.

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
11:07 am

(Oh, and tax revenue increased, too)

Don’t fear facts.

Robert

August 23rd, 2012
11:08 am

This is a race where the Republican front runner was the Republican runner-up in 2008, and the Republican nominee was trounced. This is a race where the Republican front runner, at various times throughout the primaries, trailed each and every one of his opponents, coming out on top only after outspending each and every one of the — combined!

This is a race where the GOP’s only other less desirable option would be to allow the President to run unopposed.

md

August 23rd, 2012
11:11 am

“Taking all of their earnings is, of course, completely unrealistic. Certainly, no one would ever again make the mistake of earning so much money. Heck, even Hollywood might — might — abandon Obama and the Democrats.”

Yep…..I got a good laugh when Will Smith said the following:

““I’m a black man who didn’t go to college, yet I get to travel around the world and sell my movies, and I believe very firmly that America is the only place on Earth that I could exist,” Smith begins. “So I will pay anything that I need to pay to keep my country growing.”

“But when the interviewer informs Smith that the new president of France, Francois Hollande, has proposed a 75 percent income tax on earnings above 1 million Euros, the actor balks.”

“Seventy-five?” asks Smith. “Yeah, that’s different. That’s different. Yeah, 75. Well, you know, God bless America!””

beam me up

August 23rd, 2012
11:12 am

Lil’ Barry Bailout – Your President Bush presided over the greatest expansion of government spending in American history. That might just have had a stimulative effect, and the “recovery” of which you speak was pretty tepid compared to the massive growth of the high tax Clinton years.

Centrist

August 23rd, 2012
11:14 am

Romney and Kyle won’t be filling in the spending and tax changes until after the election. Specifics at this point only alienate. But changes will be made, even if Obama is re-elected. They will either be done via another “Grand Bargain” attempt, or economic calamity like Greece will force it.

@ SBinF – Obama is labeled a tax and spend liberal because of his explosion in spending and he has often called for increased taxes on those earning over $200/250K per year. Congress has not, and will not go along with the populist attack on professionals and small business owners for increasing those taxes. Reality had Obama and other Democrats to agree to the decade old tax rates that are no longer Bush’s, but now Obama’s. Now that under Obama only half of the electorate pays income tax, you have a weak case to claim he has cut taxes. Class warfare rhetoric only fires up some of the liberal base – but such increasing tax rate policies are not going to be put in place.

Kyle Wingfield

August 23rd, 2012
11:16 am

Numbers-R-US @ 10:40: And that chart looks mighty impressive, until you realize two things:

1) This pertains to the Ryan budget. Romney has his own tax plan that predates Ryan’s joining the ticket and, as Romney has said, supersedes Ryan’s own plan. Medicare is the policy area where their plans most closely align.

2) Even if we look at this “analysis” of the Ryan plan: The chart specifically says it “does not include plan’s reductions in unspecified tax expenditures.” That is, it essentially includes only half the plan, yet it would have you believe this is what the whole plan would do. In Romney’s case, he says he would eliminate tax expenditures (i.e., loopholes and exceptions) to make sure his plan both stays revenue-neutral and does not lower the tax burden on the wealthy. So, while we can criticize Romney for not being more open about the details of his tax proposal, CBPP is being absurdly partisan in suggesting it can tell us what the effects of an entire plan would be, by looking at only half of the plan.

md

August 23rd, 2012
11:19 am

And a little tidbit on Warren Buffet…….and this is where choices comes into play…..he chooses to pay himself a very meager salary of around 100k (nowhere near the average CEO pay) as head of Berkshire, a billion dollar company. Some may say “well, good for him”. But here is the rub, by doing that, he reduces the amount of his income that is subject to ordinary income tax rates……..and then he has the audacity to say his secretary pays more.

He sure is fooling an awful lot of people……….

the red herring

August 23rd, 2012
11:23 am

if you can’t see spending over a trillion more per year isn’t sustainable then you’re part of the problem not the solution. our government is like a huge hog eating more and more of our finances. the sad part is much of it is waste and fraud. look at the GSA spending, the VA spending, the wasting of taxpayer dollars on green jobs (look at cost per job of green jobs). Downsize government and cut wasteful spending and then see if taxes need to be increased on anyone. almost 50% of america pays no income tax— what’s their fair share going to be? many of the people on this blog are of the mentality that it’s ok to spend more than you make. i assume they are living in 500k houses financed on 36k/yr income. running the country in that fashion has us where we are today. Flat Broke.

Kyle Wingfield

August 23rd, 2012
11:23 am

Numbers-R-US @ 10:40: “And I asked you to comapre time periods that are more apples to apples, not make up an excuse for comparing a 62-year period to a 3-year period.”

Again, you miss the point. The point is to ask, is what we’re doing now more or less what we’ve done historically? That’s why we’re looking at average shares of GDP on an annual basis.

You might have a point if I were adding up the spending in 62 years and comparing it to the total spending in 3 years. But, I’m not.

As for comparing recent years to the Great Depression: Gladly! Income taxes and spending were both far lower then.

From 1930-1941, revenues averaged 5.4% of GDP; spending, 8.5%; the deficit, 3.1%.
From 2009-2012, revenues averaged 15.4% of GDP; spending, 24.4%; the deficit, 9%.

PROUD NAVY VET

August 23rd, 2012
11:28 am

To Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer’s ineptocracy: The auto companines are paying back the loans. Would it really be better to let GM and Chrysler go through bankruptcy and maybe be shut down? I don’t think so. How can anyone support what Mr. Romney is telling America? There are no DETAILS given. What is it your supporting? I have worked forty years and I don’t know exactly what I’ll be getting. Some one tell me in detail what that will be? If I’m given 15k in a voucher, what will that buy me in 10 years? What if insurance cost 25k? Will I have to come out of my pocket? Again, I ask, how did we get there? what we are now living through is from the Bush era, correct? Just one Repub admit that. How big was the surplus when Mr. Clinton left? We are not as a country, where we need to be, but it could be a lot worse. I see home sales are up based on the newspaper article I just read. I’ll be the first to say I am sick of the Washington landscape and I pray both sides of the asile will come together for the good of the country. The main problem I have with Kyle and others like him is this, they are young and have not lived long enough to gain the one thing education can not teach. Wisdom. There are some things a person can only learn through living. I don’t think there are many who will disagree with that. When I was younger, I thought I (and many of my friends) had all of the answers. Life gives the test first and the lesson later. I work in a high tech job and almost to a person, the 20 and 30 somethings feel they have all of the answers. I regret if I offended anyone with my earlier post. I’m just truly fed up with where the country is. And it’s the fault of both sides of the asile. Come together, both sides have great ideas and bad ideas. Work together. China is setting the world up and will take over the first chance they get. Many groups from the Middle East will attack us the first chance they get. The country has to come together before it’s to late and it may already be to late. Wake up.

Darwin

August 23rd, 2012
11:28 am

Kyle – Do they really pay you for this? OK – Romney leads Obama in the white vote 53% to 40%. So, Obama isn’t going to win the white vote. Surprise. You don’t really have to keep this up. We whites know Obama is a flaming liberal who’s a food stamp/welfare loving president. He’s for the biggest government ever while being soft on defense. Now – is everybody reading this blog happy?

Why Do POOR People Care About RICH People Paying More?

August 23rd, 2012
11:33 am

I don’t care that “the rich” have to pay more.

Anyone can see that the RICH does not WANT to do their fair share.

Its the POOR PEOPLE who don’t have a pot to p*ss in and a window to

throw it out of…..blaming Obama for asking the rich to do more.

WHY are POOR PEOPLE defending the rich?

MOST OF THE PEOPLE on this blog are in the POOR category.

I don’t GET IT.

Kyle Wingfield

August 23rd, 2012
11:33 am

Actually, Scott Fresno, I think he’s being disingenuous because he makes more money when taxes such as the estate tax are higher. Take a businessman who dies. His estate transfers ownership of the company to his children; they are taxed at the value of the company and don’t have the cash to pay the taxes; their best option is to sell the company, and fast, to afford the tax bill; lo and behold, Buffett comes to the rescue and does what he’s done his whole career to become so wealthy, namely, buy the old man’s business for less than it’s worth.

For those businessmen still living who want to plan their estates to avoid such a fate, Buffett will sell them the insurance products to help them do so. Either way, he makes money.

I don’t begrudge Buffett or anyone else the riches they’ve made. But you have to hand it to him: He’s made billions and billions of dollars by taking advantage of federal tax law, and he still has the guts to argue for making federal tax law even more advantageous to him — and liberals laud him for it as if he’s acting sacrificially.

EJ Moosa

August 23rd, 2012
11:34 am

The simple truth is that the average person does know whether or not they are better off today than they were four years ago. They also know whether or not they have a real reason to believe things have the potential to improve in the near future.

The American voters have NOT kept a party in the White House if the unemployment rate averaged 8% or more during the year of the election since World War II. There is no reason to suggest that this time the American voters do not grasp what these high numbers mean.

Moreover, the US economic picture continues to deteriorate. Unemployment is rising. Home sales are more than dismal.

While there are some voters that will vote one way or another regardless, the swing vote is the economic vote. And that is not going to change over the next 3 months.

n

August 23rd, 2012
11:34 am

“There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics.”
Mark Twain
All of the above, above.

EJ Moosa

August 23rd, 2012
11:36 am

“WHY are POOR PEOPLE defending the rich?”

Because many of us were raised with the notion that we had to earn what we had, not have it given to us through the government.

Kyle Wingfield

August 23rd, 2012
11:36 am

Forgot the link for the data in my 11:23. You want Table 1.2.

md

August 23rd, 2012
11:36 am

VET…….Ryan’s revised plan says you can have the voucher OR stick with the traditional plan. IF you don’t like the idea of the voucher (of which by the way the individual gets to pocket what they don’t use), then by all means stay in the traditional plan.

Don’t be afraid of it like the dems want you to be, instead, read up on it and educate yourself………what we should all need to know is that the status quo is unsustainable…….which does what for everybody?

Why Do POOR People Care About RICH People Paying More?

August 23rd, 2012
11:41 am

@PROUD NAVY VET

August 23rd, 2012
11:28 am
************************************************************

The only source of knowledge is experience.

We can’t solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
11:43 am

We’re not defending the rich, we’re defending Americans from the America haters, Obozo being the cheerleader for such hate.

md

August 23rd, 2012
11:44 am

“MOST OF THE PEOPLE on this blog are in the POOR category.”

Because we choose everything we do………..

I’m not rich, but not quite poor either……..but I will never defend an individual that chooses to take and remain in a job paying 20-30k a year and then complaining that they don’t make enough.

Don’t like the pay, get to work on doing whatever it might take to make more……take a college course vs blogging all day for example……..people make choices every day, all day.

Should a student that chooses to study 24/7 and makes A’s have to share those A’s with a student that chooses to party, study very little and makes F’s?? That should give you a clue.

Scott Fresno

August 23rd, 2012
11:46 am

Touché, Kyle

Why Do POOR People Care About RICH People Paying More?

August 23rd, 2012
11:51 am

@EJ Moosa

August 23rd, 2012
11:36 am
“WHY are POOR PEOPLE defending the rich?”

Because many of us were raised with the notion that we had to earn what we had, not have it given to us through the government.

********************************************************************************************

I applaud your parents.

However, whatever happened to HELPING people who really need help?

Did your parents teach you to ‘DO UNTO OTHERS”.?

Did your parents teach you, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.”

Did your parents teach you, “Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.”

Did your parents teach you, “Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him.”

Did your parents teach you to READ YOUR BIBLE and obey God’s commandments?

Mine did.

EJ Moosa

August 23rd, 2012
11:55 am

However, whatever happened to HELPING people who really need help?

I help people who need help voluntarily.

I resent being forced by the government to help people who they decided need help( mainly to secure their votes).

I seem to have missed the section of the Bible that said “Through Government, All things are possible”. Can you point me to it?

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
11:56 am

We know that the rich don’t have enough to find Obozo’s out-of-control spending.

So, where does the money come from?

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
11:56 am

He who does not work, neither shall he eat.

md

August 23rd, 2012
11:59 am

“However, whatever happened to HELPING people who really need help?”

I don’t know anybody that refuses to help those that “can’t” help themselves……I’d say most everybody agrees with that philosophy.

Now, helping those that “won’t” help themselves is an entirely different matter………

Rockerbabe

August 23rd, 2012
12:03 pm

Stop complaining about our government. The citizens of this country like government and lots of it!
-Anytime somethings goes wrong, citizens always say “there ought to be a law”.
-Anytime mother nature or a would-be terrorist, does something aweful, citizens demand that the government “do something”. And the government helps pick up the pieces and put things right again.
-Have a flood, a tornado, an ice storm with lots of damage and everyone expects government to be there to help pick up the pieces-and they usually do!
-When the private sector fu@Ks up our communities with pollution, clear cutting, sending jobs oversees, etc. Americans of all stripes suffer. Governmenet is usually around to help sofen the blow. God forbid that the private sector get off its fat wade of cash and help the country and its community that allows all of this nonsense.
-When the private sector choose to not adequately compensate its rank and file workers for their productivity and loyalty in the form of merit pay increases, decent benefits, decent penions for a lifetime of service, etc – instead, giving the rewards to a few managers at the top, someone has to help the average citizen stave off destitution in their old age. Lord knows, the private sector isn’t going to do it.
-When older and retired workers need medical insurance, Medicare is really the only player and has only been the only player that is affordable. Because the private sector FAILED to address the needs of the older citizen, the government stepped in and helped out.

You see Kyle, your are ignorant of the history of abuse most American workers have endured in an effort to provide for themselves and their families. Except for a few in the top 1-3%, most Americans in past generations (prior to WWII) lived in or near poverty. Retirement ment destitution. No unions ment unacceptable workplace hazards (referene the Triangle Shirt Company in NY). YOU are just ignorant of the history of American labor and their fight for a better life. You seem to think government is bad, well it is only bad in the wrong hands or shall I say GOP hands.

Why Do POOR People Care About RICH People Paying More?

August 23rd, 2012
12:05 pm

@md

August 23rd, 2012
11:44 am
“MOST OF THE PEOPLE on this blog are in the POOR category.”

Because we choose everything we do………..

I’m not rich, but not quite poor either……..but I will never defend an individual that chooses to take and remain in a job paying 20-30k a year and then complaining that they don’t make enough.

Don’t like the pay, get to work on doing whatever it might take to make more……take a college course vs blogging all day for example……..people make choices every day, all day.

Should a student that chooses to study 24/7 and makes A’s have to share those A’s with a student that chooses to party, study very little and makes F’s?? That should give you a clue.

***********************************************************************************

WHAT IS “but not quite poor either?”

Compared to the rich YOU ARE POOR.

The person who “remain in a job paying 20-30k a year and then complaining

that they don’t make enough IS AN UNGRATEFUL IDIOT.”

I CAN BLOG all day because I am retired, debt free, I HELP my elderly neighbors

and I am enjoying my retirement. I sacrificed for 30 years to get to this point.

Students cannot give their grades to someone else. So that theory is

irrational.

Why Do POOR People Care About RICH People Paying More? Is the question.

So you don’t care if you are paying 30% and Myth Robme is paying 13%?

YOU ARE THE FOOL NOT MYTH ROBME.

md

August 23rd, 2012
12:13 pm

“Students cannot give their grades to someone else. So that theory is

irrational.”

Actually, it’s the very same theory behind the tax code………refusing to understand that is also a choice.

md

August 23rd, 2012
12:15 pm

Seems someone above has no idea that that private sector is what allows that gov’t to even exist………

Thulsa Doom

August 23rd, 2012
12:18 pm

“Did your parents teach you, “Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him.”

Did your parents teach you to READ YOUR BIBLE and obey God’s commandments?

Mine did.”

I think you’re missing the point sir. Charity and helping people is something that’s done of one’s own free will and sense of caring. Govt confiscation and waste is not free will and for all practical intent and purposes a lot of govt “help” doesn’t help at all but has a built in disincentive to people helping themselves. And as another poster pointed out many conservatives believe in helping our fellow man and helping those in need. What we don’t believe in is welfare as a lifestyle and helping people who refuse to help themselves.

Thulsa Doom

August 23rd, 2012
12:19 pm

I see the zero sum fallacy regarding taxation issues is alive and well with the liberals today. They seem to think that if a rich person pays a lesser tax rate than that necessarily comes out of the pockets of poor people. Hard to reason with people who are wrapped up in this fallacious thinking and refuse to let it go.

Thulsa Doom

August 23rd, 2012
12:23 pm

“So you don’t care if you are paying 30% and Myth Robme is paying 13%?”

Fallacious. Romney pays the same capital gains tax rate as anyone else. He may have more tax deductions to offset gains but the rate is the same. And on his salaried income he probably pays a higher rate than most.

md

August 23rd, 2012
12:25 pm

“Why Do POOR People Care About RICH People Paying More? Is the question.”

Because some of us understand that we all live here, we all use the common elements, we all make choices, and that we already have a progressive tax structure……………

Not taking any of that into consideration and taxing based solely on “because they have it” becomes an ethical debate………..

JDW

August 23rd, 2012
12:26 pm

@LBB…”rates were higher, and so were deductions. No one paid effective tax rates like the ones you listed.”

Actually no…they deductions or tax expenditures are higher now…read and learn.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/1001234_tax_expenditures.pdf

Numbers-R-US

August 23rd, 2012
12:26 pm

Kyle,
What would those averages you cherry picked look like if you selected say 2000-2011. And why not include those golden years from 1941-1945 in any of your examples? Or even graphically show a comparison between fed outlays versus fed receipts from 1930 to 1945 or talk about unemployment and how it varied over time and compare those to the three year period under Obama. You know, the whole story or at least significantly more than you have shown thus far. You cannot do that because then your selective law of averages falls apart. Show me the whole picture. Quit cherry picking averages that suit your “story”. Show the dynamics that are conveniently masked by your cherry picked averages.

And of course all you do with your other response is continue with the lame deflections about how Ryan’s plan is not Romney’s plan and Romney has not released his magic fairy dust so you don’t know, etc. Kyle, I’m sure you can do better. Show me the math. Show me how the Romney/Ryan composite does not result in the poor funding yet another tax cut for the rich as shown in that graphic I cited. Or even attack the graphic with something more substantive than, “ooh, pretty colors!” Really, Kyle. You’re sounding more radical right wing with each passing day.

md

August 23rd, 2012
12:27 pm

TD……seems many don’t understand that the tax rates are the same for everybody…….I guess the tv didn’t explain it like that to them………..

Why Do POOR People Care About RICH People Paying More?

August 23rd, 2012
12:30 pm

@cc

August 23rd, 2012
10:18 am
“‘The rich’ can’t bankroll Obama’s big-government plans”

The people getting the ‘free stuff’ now will vote to re-elect Obama not realizing that the collapse of the economy will end their gravy train. When the people who produce cannot or will not produce any longer, there is nothing for the ‘takers’ to take.

Hang on to your hats, folks, ‘cause you ain’t seen nothing yet!

********************************************************************************************************************************

“The people getting the ‘free stuff’ now will vote to re-elect Obama not realizing that the collapse of the economy will end their gravy train.”

Those PEOPLE you are speaking of that are getting the “FREE STUFF” are

WHITE PEOPLE. That is a KNOWN FACT.

I AGREE “Hang on to your hats, folks, ‘cause you ain’t seen nothing yet!”

IF MYTH ROBME AND RYAN SHAME are elected they are going to

not only SCR*W democrats but republicans too.

Ryan’s mediscare plan WILL NOT DISCRIMINATE between democrat

or republican. His plan does not CARE ABOUT party affiliation..

MYTH ROBME’S budget WILL DISCRIMINATE BETWEEN THE

POOR AND THE RICH. I hope you are in the latter.

“Hang on to your hats, folks, ‘cause you ain’t seen nothing yet!”

yuzeyurbrane

August 23rd, 2012
12:30 pm

Kyle, you didn’t mention the proposed confiscatory taxes on your huge AJC salary. I will comment more seriously later when I have a chance to read Summers full comments.

JDW

August 23rd, 2012
12:31 pm

@Kyle…”I think he’s being disingenuous because he makes more money when taxes such as the estate tax are higher. Take a businessman who dies.”

You realize of course that Buffet almost exclusively buys either public or very large companies that don’t fall in this scenario…actually I would bet you could count the times Buffet has done this on the thumbs of one hand.

You also realize that a modicum of planning would eliminate the need for a forced sale…don’t you?

jeffrey

August 23rd, 2012
12:35 pm

And who starved the beast?

JDW

August 23rd, 2012
12:35 pm

@Kyle…”The deficit as a percentage of GDP in those years averaged 1.6%, which is a tick below the post-WW2 historical average (1.7%). ”

I will say it again…average is failure in this case. If you want success model success 1997-2001.

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
12:36 pm

Where will the money come from to pay for Obozo’s unprecedented spending?

Nothing but chirping crickets from the lefties!

Why Do POOR People Care About RICH People Paying More?

August 23rd, 2012
12:36 pm

@md

August 23rd, 2012
12:27 pm
TD……seems many don’t understand that the tax rates are the same for everybody…….I guess the tv didn’t explain it like that to them………..

************************************************************************************

The tax rates are the same for everybody?

For 2012, there will be six tax rates of:

•10%,
•15%,
•25%,
•28%,
•33%, and
•35%.
The tax rates for 2013 are scheduled to change as follows: the 10% rate will be collapsed into the 15% rate; the 25% rate will become 28%; the 28% rate will become 31%; the 33% rate will become 36%; and the 35% rate will become 39.6%.

These tax rate changes will take effect beginning in 2013 absent further legislation.

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
12:37 pm

Why doesn’t Obozo “model success”?

Why Do POOR People Care About RICH People Paying More?

August 23rd, 2012
12:38 pm

@Lil’ Barry Bailout – Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
12:36 pm
Where will the money come from to pay for Obozo’s unprecedented spending?

Nothing but chirping crickets from the lefties!

******************************************************************************************

FROM THE RICH.

And not from poor people like you.

chirp…..chrip……chrip……..chirp

Kyle Wingfield

August 23rd, 2012
12:38 pm

Numbers @ 12:26: (Sighing) If you knew anything about numbers and federal finances, you would know it is routine for economists to talk about the post-WW2 period, for the reasons I explained earlier. If you knew anything about averages, you would know that adding a few years’ data to such a large sample isn’t going to change these figures by more than a few tenths of a percentage point.

You keep slinging away with objections that have nothing to do with the facts, or even anyone’s arguments. (What in the world would the “Romney/Ryan composite” be?) I explained to you that the CBPP admits in its own graphic that it isn’t taking account of a crucial element of the plan. To you, that equates to “ooh, pretty colors!” You have nothing.

md

August 23rd, 2012
12:38 pm

Mr Why…..based on your other posts, I didn’t expect you to understand……….

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
12:39 pm

Obozo NEEDS failure, to keep the pigs coming to his slop bucket.

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
12:41 pm

Trashman, we’ve established that the rich cant pay for Obozo’s spending, even at 100% tax.

Where will the money come from?

Why Do POOR People Care About RICH People Paying More?

August 23rd, 2012
12:49 pm

@Lil’ Barry Bailout – Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
12:37 pm
Why doesn’t Obozo “model success”?

**************************************************************

The SAME REASON CONS do not “model success”.

RCP Poll Average

Congressional Job Approval:

13.8 Approve

79.2 Disapprove

WHERE IS THE SUCCESS?

Thulsa Doom

August 23rd, 2012
12:50 pm

md,

I think they purposely choose to ignore the fact that capital gains tax rates are the same for everyone because it doesn’t fit their narrative. Like I said you can’t use reason with some of these people. Look at Numbers. You might as well be spitting in the wind then try having a rational conversation with him. If the facts don’t support his narrative he just ignores them.

Why Do POOR People Care About RICH People Paying More?

August 23rd, 2012
12:52 pm

@Lil’ Barry Bailout – Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
12:39 pm
Obozo NEEDS failure, to keep the pigs coming to his slop bucket.

*****************************************************************

CONS need failure, to keep the VULTURE CAPITALISTS RICH.

Why Do POOR People Care About RICH People Paying More?

August 23rd, 2012
12:52 pm

@Lil’ Barry Bailout – Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
12:39 pm
Obozo NEEDS failure, to keep the pigs coming to his slop bucket.

*****************************************************************

CONS need failure, to keep the VULTURE CAPITALISTS RICH.

retiredds

August 23rd, 2012
12:52 pm

lil barry: o.k. lets do the following: make the Bush tax cuts permanent. Cut spending by 10%. When will the federal budget be balanced under that scenario? Also how long will it take to pay off the federal debt including interest on the debt?

Pizzaman

August 23rd, 2012
12:52 pm

Remember Folks, the President suggests, the Congress (House to be exact) writes the legislation. So it’s not only the President’s fault, it’s Congresses also. And Congress is split up between us and them. I’m the only one in the middle. We need new TAXES Republicans! We need spending CUTS Democrats. And yes! the cuts have to come from all States and Congressional districts. Nothing is sacred. “Get-er done!”

Why Do POOR People Care About RICH People Paying More?

August 23rd, 2012
12:54 pm

@Lil’ Barry Bailout – Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
12:41 pm
Trashman, we’ve established that the rich cant pay for Obozo’s spending, even at 100% tax.

Where will the money come from?

****************************************************************

YOU ARE THE BLOG’S GENIUS…..YOU FIGURE IT OUT. :)

Kyle Wingfield

August 23rd, 2012
12:55 pm

JDW presumably also thinks the Braves are supposed to win the World Series every year. After all, the franchise has won the World Series three times in the past 100 years, which is the exact same number of times annual tax revenues as a percentage of GDP have hit 20%. Which, I know from our previous exchanges, is what JDW thinks is required to balance the budget.

Up Up and Away

August 23rd, 2012
12:57 pm

Thulsa Doom

Appears you are the one that can’t be reasoned with. If someone isn’t going to change their stance and adhere to what you think, whether it is right or wrong, yet you keep engaging, who is the one that needs their head examined?

md

August 23rd, 2012
12:58 pm

The Braves ARE supposed to win the World Series every year……..but us sports fans in Atl are delusional at best.

Kyle Wingfield

August 23rd, 2012
1:00 pm

Excuse me, md. JDW probably thinks that will happen. Or that the Braves could win it every single year, if only they’d try a little harder…

cc

August 23rd, 2012
1:03 pm

Why Do POOR People Care About RICH People Paying More?:

“I don’t GET IT.”

With your mindset, you never will . . .

JDW

August 23rd, 2012
1:15 pm

@Kyle…”presumably also thinks the Braves are supposed to win the World Series every year. After all, the franchise has won the World Series three times in the past 100 years, which is the exact same number of times annual tax revenues as a percentage of GDP have hit 20%. Which, I know from our previous exchanges, is what JDW thinks is required to balance the budget.”

Revenues are a function of the tax code. If you want 20% you have to build the code to generate 20%. As for the Braves, should they want to win or at least compete for the World Series every year they should model 1995…not 2011.

Problem with your approach is you are accepting failure right up front…as the Braves have more often than not, but as the Yankees under Steinbrenner never did.

cc

August 23rd, 2012
1:17 pm

I read the following and found it to be a perfect expression of my opinion. It is also a matter of fact.

The essential difference between liberals and conservatives is that liberals could not exist without conservatives to defend their freedom and support them economically. Conservatives, on the other hand, could exist and live quite well without liberals.

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
1:20 pm

retiredds: lil barry: o.k. lets do the following: make the Bush tax cuts permanent. Cut spending by 10%. When will the federal budget be balanced under that scenario?
——

We need to cut spending by 20% to get back to the historical average, for starters.

Even at that, we’d still be out of balance.

And we’d be hundreds of billions closer to balance than Obozo’s non-plan.

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
1:22 pm

Now, answer MY question–where will Obozo get the money, since we know taking 100% from the rich doesn’t come close to balancing the budget?

Up Up and Away

August 23rd, 2012
1:23 pm

cc

Romney or Paul served when?

They haven’t defending anything that the liberals you cry and whine about haven’t defended

Pointing out that the military votes majority Republican, would be an excuse for the Republicans / conservatives who do not serve, exactly how?

Why Do POOR People Care About RICH People Paying More?

August 23rd, 2012
1:24 pm

@cc

August 23rd, 2012
1:03 pm
Why Do POOR People Care About RICH People Paying More?:

“I don’t GET IT.”

With your mindset, you never will . . .

******************************************************************

HOW DID YOU MISPLACE SANITY?

retiredds

August 23rd, 2012
1:25 pm

Lil Barry: You are close enough so then how much closer will the Ryan-Romney plan (without specifics of course) come?

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

August 23rd, 2012
1:26 pm

We need to cut spending by 20% to get back to the historical average

I agree. Military spending is way out of control.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

We spend more on defense than the next ten countries combined.

Cut back on the laser hover tanks that will never be used will go along way to balancing the books.

That and make the Romney’s of the world pay the same rate as me.

Of course Romney want to increase defense spending.

Its red meat for his base of mostly uneducated morons.

Why Do POOR People Care About RICH People Paying More?

August 23rd, 2012
1:26 pm

@cc

August 23rd, 2012
1:17 pm
I read the following and found it to be a perfect expression of my opinion. It is also a matter of fact.

The essential difference between liberals and conservatives is that liberals could not exist without conservatives to defend their freedom and support them economically. Conservatives, on the other hand, could exist and live quite well without liberals.

********************************************************************************************

The essential difference between liberals and conservatives IS:

IF CONSERVATIVES STOP TELLING LIES ABOUT THE LIBERALS,

LIBERALS WILL STOP TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT CONSERVATIVES.

Kyle Wingfield

August 23rd, 2012
1:28 pm

You’re right, JDW. We should model the success of that time and keep spending down to a level that history tells us the tax code, bearing the ups and downs of the economy, can support. Somewhere around 19% of GDP.

Or we can count on the equivalent of having five future Hall of Famers on the team all at the same time — every single year.

JDW

August 23rd, 2012
1:30 pm

@Kyle…and while you are blathering on about historical tax averages try this on for size.

Through most of those years SSI and Medicare taxes, which fall on all, were much lower. At full rates they average 6.6% of GDP. If you return the other components of federal revenue to their post World War 2 averages of:

Income Tax 8.2%
Corp Tax 3.0%
Excise Tax 1.4%
Other Tax .9%

You know what you get….20.1%…DUH…model success not failure

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

August 23rd, 2012
1:30 pm

Now, answer MY question–where will Obozo get the money, since we know taking 100% from the rich doesn’t come close to balancing the budget?

Huge cuts in defense spending.

He supports this and is scheduled to happen soon.

If Republicans and Democrats fail to come to a budget agreement by the end of the year, significant cuts to the Department of Defense could become a reality. Beginning in 2013, the federal government would undergo a series of budget reductions to defense and non-defense programs that would total $1.2 trillion in cuts over the next decade.

JDW

August 23rd, 2012
1:31 pm

@Kyle…”Or we can count on the equivalent of having five future Hall of Famers on the team all at the same time ”

All you really need in budgets is a good plan…you are advocating a bad one.

Hurricane Isaac Headed To FLORIDA. God Don't Like Ugly

August 23rd, 2012
1:37 pm

CONS CAN’T CATCH A BREAK.

Wonder why?

Is it?…………………………………..

You reap what you sow?

Thulsa Doom

August 23rd, 2012
1:38 pm

Up up and away,

Appears you are the one that can’t be reasoned with. If someone isn’t going to change their stance and adhere to what you think, whether it is right or wrong, yet you keep engaging, who is the one that needs their head examined?

I just had a minor typo correction to do to get the truth across.

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
1:41 pm

$1.2 trillion in defense cuts is about 10% of the debt Obozo will have caused over the next decade…pathetic.

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

August 23rd, 2012
1:41 pm

BTW Kyle

Your previous article about the war on women.

Man that was some reach.

Comparing Republicans running around actually believing women can avoid a pregnancy, by magic I guess, during a rape to a really non issue at the DNC.

Like a said. Thats some reach.

Have you read the 60 page Official Republican Platform

Its disgusting. Blanket ban on Abortion. Ultrasounds required.

No condoms just abstinence programs ( Which have been proven not to work )

This is what you get when people put Religion in front of Science and Reason.

A very backwards ass society.

Unreal.

Thulsa Doom

August 23rd, 2012
1:42 pm

“Of course Obama want to increase welfare spending.

Its red meat for his base of mostly uneducated morons.”

Typo corrections are easy today.

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
1:42 pm

Model success, not Obozo.

Thulsa Doom

August 23rd, 2012
1:44 pm

“No condoms just abstinence programs ( Which have been proven not to work )”

Condoms are roughly 50 cents. Go buy one for your baby momma. Or if you need help I’ll send you a couple quarters.

Kyle Wingfield

August 23rd, 2012
1:45 pm

JDW @ 1:30: And yet, revenues as a share of the economy do not move in anything like a line correlated to the increase in social taxes.

And @ 1:31: See, I’m saying the same thing about yours. The benefit of my plan is that, if more money comes in, in theory more money can be spent temporarily. Under your plan, if money comes in at the usual rate, we are automatically running deficits.

Ray

August 23rd, 2012
1:45 pm

Kyle, you are right. If taxing all the wealth from the rich (100% of their earnings) will not eliminate the deficit, nor make it possible for the U.S. to pay for it’s ongoing operations, let’s all just give up, and give the top 1% another tax cut, or at least extend the Bush tax’s cuts again, because it is impossible to improve our overall situation.

Let’s cut food stamps, Medicare, and aid. Especially to Planned Parenthood. This is squandered money; because we need to keep subsidizing Mitt Romney’s low tax rate. Did you know he is a job creator, and this country now worships at their alter?

Kyle Wingfield

August 23rd, 2012
1:47 pm

Cheesy Grits @ 1:30: Even if you cut defense in half, you’re talking about 2% of GDP. So, even if you’re actually advocating doing that and taking every penny from anyone who crosses the $1M threshold (knowing, I’m suuuuuure, that everyone would simply change their compensation packages to avoid that number, rendering the gain null), you’re still short. And, again, you’re short of paying for the future spending, to say nothing of our now-perennial 7% budget deficits.

Try again.

Thulsa Doom

August 23rd, 2012
1:47 pm

“Its disgusting. Blanket ban on Abortion. Ultrasounds required.”

Yes. Of course. Only in the minds of the kook left is abortion not disgusting but an ultrasound is horribly disgusting.

“This is what you get when people put Religion in front of Science and Reason.”

Yes. Of course. Because reason dictates that some taxpayers should pay for the condoms of other taxpayers. Such is the worldview of the kook left.

“A very backwards ass society.

Unreal.”

No doubt. We are backwards ass. How else does one explain a complete incompetent like Obama getting elected.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

August 23rd, 2012
1:54 pm

‘The rich’ can’t bankroll Obama’s big-government plans

They can and they will.

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

August 23rd, 2012
1:54 pm

No doubt. We are backwards ass.

Wanna guess which states have the highest percentage of college graduates and which way they vote.

Wanna guess which states have the lowest and which way they vote.

Hint the educated states vote Blue.

The ones that aren’t vote Red.

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

August 23rd, 2012
1:58 pm

I love Kyles reasoning.

If a point doesn’t totally solve the problem then it shouldn’t be attempted at all.

Trouble is there is not magic bullet.

We have to raise taxes

We have to cut military spending

We have to cut entitlement spending

No one thing solves the problem.

And round and round we go.

JDW

August 23rd, 2012
1:59 pm

@Kyle…”And yet, revenues as a share of the economy do not move in anything like a line correlated to the increase in social taxes.”

Which is a function of Reagan and Duhbya tax cuts with the intervention of Clinton in between. In 1981, during a recession they were 19.6% of GDP…then came Reagan. By 2000 Clinton had them to 20.6% then came Duhbya.

The cause is clear to those who see…Republican tax cuts that mainly benefit the wealthy and upper middle classes while providing no return in jobs.

southpaw

August 23rd, 2012
2:00 pm

Why Do POOR People Care About RICH People Paying More?

August 23rd, 2012
1:26 pm
“LIBERALS WILL STOP TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT CONSERVATIVES”?

You have to start before you can stop. Now if you want to say “LIBERALS WON’T START TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT CONSERVATIVES,” I’ll believe that in part. I won’t believe it completely, because it’s too big of a blanket statement; i.e., it doesn’t describe all liberals.

Don't Tread

August 23rd, 2012
2:04 pm

Liberals want equality of outcome and would very much like to go far beyond merely taxing yearly earnings, and individual rights be damned. The problem is that there’s an opposing party (you know, the Party of No) that won’t let them.

PROUD NAVY VET

August 23rd, 2012
2:05 pm

@Lil’ Barry Bailout – Vote American Why are you so angry? I don’t care for Mr. Romney or his politics, but I respect him enough to call him Mr. I served under Presidents that were from the other side of the asile, but I ALWAYS respected them because I wanted to be respected. You and a few other people on here are the reason the United States is in the trouble we are in. If we can’t be civil and respectful, we will never come together as a nation. I love my grandparents and my parents very much and I would never want them to ever see or hear me acting in this way because they taught me better. They were always respectful of others. This is why Washington and the states may never be any better. Until we become better as people we will never get out of this hole. It requires the entire country working together.Why do you feel you have to prove to everyone how smart you are or how much better you are then other people. If that was the case, we’d see it for ourselves instead of you always trying to prove it to everyone. Relax and try to learn something instead of always trying to teach something.

Towncrier

August 23rd, 2012
2:07 pm

“If Uncle Sam had taken every penny these Americans earned, he’d have gotten 7.4 percent of GDP.”

Which is why, given how often the president harps on taxing the rich, it is hard to believe he is an honest man. Far more than anything, spending has to be gotten under control. To be fair, two wars – one of which (Iraq) was really unnecessary – has cost us a lot at a time we could ill afford it. But we really need to define the role and scope of government going forward.

AnotherSoldier

August 23rd, 2012
2:19 pm

Just roll back the Bush tax cuts – like they were supposed have been in 2010.

That wouldn’t be a tax hike any more than a sale ending would be a price hike.

Towncrier

August 23rd, 2012
2:20 pm

“This is what you get when people put Religion in front of Science and Reason.”

Without religion, there are no objective grounds for morality. So what does social liberalism get you? A “comedian” in a night club discoursing at length about a sexual act in a profanity laced “routine” and all of the patrons guffawing stupidly in their drunkenness. Computer generated pedophilic pornography. Confusion between natural genders. Parents bringing their 2 or 3 years olds into a theatre to watch a scary R-rated movie.

So, of course, being required to look at the life you are terminating via an ultrasound is revolting. I mean, who wants to look at their own vomit?

Tom(Independent Viet Vet,USAF)

August 23rd, 2012
2:24 pm

FinnMcCool@1:54 – You are completely wrong on that statement sir! If the wealthy(high achievers, not me sir) were taxed as suggested, it would cover only 8 days of current govt spending during a calendar year. What happens to the other 344 days?

AnotherSoldier

August 23rd, 2012
2:24 pm

I think a lot of so called “Conservatives” could learn a lot from Barry Goldwater:

“On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God’s name on one’s behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both.
I’m frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in “A,” “B,” “C” and “D.” Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me?
And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of “conservatism.”

Speech in the US Senate (16 September 1981)

Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy

August 23rd, 2012
2:24 pm

Cheesy/Finn

If a point doesn’t totally solve the problem then it shouldn’t be attempted at all.

That is not what he is saying. He is saying that if taxing the rich doesn’t totally (hardly makes a dent) solve the problem, so why does Obama’s economic plan, have only that one plank. More like a splinter than a plank. Where is the beef? He has nothing but tax the wealthy.

Karl Rove

August 23rd, 2012
2:25 pm

WOW- another great editorial from my boy Kyle. Just keep convincing them folks out there that the Dems and that communist in the white house are the ones draining the federal coffers. You know the drill well- If the Repubs give away free stuff that cost trillions of dollars- blame the other side. Lie often enough and it becomes the truth. Reagan passing EMTALA with no funding giving everyone the eright to free hospital care – that was carter’s fault. Just snuck up on Ronnie when he was having an Alzheimer’s attack. And those free Medicare drugs that we passed to get W reelected and free gym memberships called Medicare Advantage – well that was the Dms idea. So what if it may cost over a trillion dollars in ten years?. And now that commie is trying to cut big pharma and the insurers profits- call that stealing from the elderly. Works every time like a charm
Just remember if you pass gas in public blame it on the other guy. Keep up the good work.

Don't Tread

August 23rd, 2012
2:27 pm

“given how often the president harps on taxing the rich, it is hard to believe he is an honest man”

He’s not…When he doesn’t want the truth getting out he just invokes executive privilege or something.

cc

August 23rd, 2012
2:28 pm

Up Up and Away:

“Romney or Paul served when?”

When did either Obama or Biden serve?

“They haven’t defending anything that the liberals you cry and whine about haven’t defended”

I’m sure that history records a multitude of American liberals who have served honorably. I just can’t think of any at the moment.

“Pointing out that the military votes majority Republican, would be an excuse for the Republicans / conservatives who do not serve, exactly how?”

Not all Republicans and conservatives have served, but I’d like to see the comparison made in terms of numbers, length of service and HOW they served.

Towncrier

August 23rd, 2012
2:30 pm

“Condoms are roughly 50 cents…if you need help I’ll send you a couple quarters.”

And, it appears, 98% effective when used properly. When combined with some other inexpensive birth control method (like the rhythm method), they would be close to 100% effective. But since a lot of people don’t want to be bothered with this kind of artificiality and wind up having unplanned, raw sex, then it sure is convenient to be able to legally erase the consequences of their mistake (if the expensive contraceptives that kill the fertilized egg don’t work).

Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy

August 23rd, 2012
2:30 pm

Another soldier

Just roll back the Bush tax cuts – like they were supposed have been in 2010.

They are the Obama tax cuts now, hadn’t you heard he extended them through 2012 and he will extend them once again this year.

The CBO says if they are not extended we will return to a recessionary economy, lose .5% of our GDP, and unemployment will top 9%. The tax cuts are what are supporting this poor economy, eliminating them pulls the rug completely out from under it.

Spending is the problem and until we reduce spending, things are not going to get much better.

Jose

August 23rd, 2012
2:32 pm

OBAMA BY THE NUMBERS

204+ fundraisers
100+ golf outings
0 meetings with his jobs council in 2012
$5,000,000,000,000+ added to the debt
4 straight years of $1,000,000,000,000 budget deficits
15% unemployment

AnotherSoldier

August 23rd, 2012
2:35 pm

Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer’s ineptocracy Wrote: “That is not what he is saying. He is saying that if taxing the rich doesn’t totally (hardly makes a dent) solve the problem, so why does Obama’s economic plan, have only that one plank. More like a splinter than a plank. Where is the beef? He has nothing but tax the wealthy.”

Wow – that’s a load of hooey – remember this from last year?

“WASHINGTON — House Speaker John Boehner is rejecting President Obama’s offer to make historic cuts to the federal government and the social safety net, saying in a statement Saturday evening that he can not agree to the tax increases Democrats insisted on as part of the bargain.

Boehner made his decision after speaking with the president by phone on Saturday afternoon, a day ahead of a major White House meeting with Democratic and GOP leadership, a Republican source familiar with situation said.

Obama had proposed to Republicans a “grand bargain” that accomplished a host of individual things that are unpopular on their own, but that just might pass as a huge package jammed through Congress with default looming. Obama offered to put Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid cuts on the table in exchange for a tax hike of roughly $100 billion per year over 10 years. Meanwhile, government spending would be cut by roughly three times that amount. It’s no small irony that the party’s dogmatic opposition to tax increases is costing the GOP its best opportunity to roll back social programs it has long targeted.

Republicans are now banking on a smaller deficit reduction deal that would still make major cuts, somewhere in the range of $2 trillion.

“Despite good-faith efforts to find common ground, the White House will not pursue a bigger debt reduction agreement without tax hikes,” Boehner said in a statement. “I believe the best approach may be to focus on producing a smaller measure, based on the cuts identified in the Biden-led negotiations, that still meets our call for spending reforms and cuts greater than the amount of any debt limit increase.”

While taxes are being put forward as a major cause of the collapse of the grand bargain, a Republican familiar with the discussions said that the two parties couldn’t come to an agreement on cuts to entitlements. “The White House would not agree with the core elements of tax reform proposed by the Speaker,” said the official. “A gulf also remains between the Speaker and the White House on the issue of medium and long-term structural reforms.”

When word leaked out this past week that Obama was proposing cuts to entitlements, Democrats in Congress and outside advocates kicked their opposition into high gear, making it clear that no bargain would win their support if it contained any cuts to Social Security or Medicare beneficiaries. That opposition may have broken the back of the bargain. “

Thulsa Doom

August 23rd, 2012
2:35 pm

“Wanna guess which states have the lowest and which way they vote.”

Want to guess which states are losing populations and bleeding jobs? Yep. The blue states

Want to guess which states are gaining populations and jobs? Yep. The red states.

In their growth stages and their days of prosperity the current blue states were red back then. It was only when they turned blue that they started to decline. Ever wonder why the southern states a long time ago always lagged the GOP states up north? Cause the Ds controlled them. And eventually the roles reversed and traditional GOP states up north become D controlled states and vice versa. And of course now its the red GOP controlled states that are the growth states and the blue Dem states that are in decline.

Hurricane Isaac Headed To FLORIDA. God Don't Like Ugly

August 23rd, 2012
2:36 pm

@Thulsa Doom

August 23rd, 2012
1:42 pm
“Of course Obama want to increase welfare spending.

Its red meat for his base of mostly uneducated morons.”

Typo corrections are easy today.

****************************************************************************************

“I just had a minor typo correction to do to get the truth across.”

WHO IS THE “uneducated moron” NOW?

Doomy is. :)

Jose

August 23rd, 2012
2:39 pm

karl

when DEMOCRATS controlled both the house and the senate from 2007-2010………… they racked up $5 trillion in debt……………. the worst 2 congressional periods in history

so YES………………. THE DEMS DO DRAIN THE COFFERS

Why Do POOR People Care About RICH People Paying More?

August 23rd, 2012
2:44 pm

@Karl Rove

August 23rd, 2012
2:25 pm
Lie often enough and it becomes the truth.
**********************************************************************************

If Republicans stop telling lies about the Democrats, Democrats will stop telling

the truth aout the Republicans.

YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH.

THE TRUTH AIN’T IN YOU.

Why Do POOR People Care About RICH People Paying More?

August 23rd, 2012
2:51 pm

@Jose

August 23rd, 2012
2:39 pm
karl

when DEMOCRATS controlled both the house and the senate from 2007-2010………… they racked up $5 trillion in debt……………. the worst 2 congressional periods in history

so YES………………. THE DEMS DO DRAIN THE COFFERS

********************************************************************************************

CONS DO DRAIN THE COFFERS TO.

Just ask George W. Bush and Dick Cheney.

The Halliburton Scandal: Business as Usual
\
In the latest in the long line of corporate scandals involving the BUSH Administration, Halliburton, the energy giant formerly run and still largely influenced abd controlled by Vice-President DICK CHENEY, has announced that it will repay the US government over $27.4 million after it was discovered that it had grossly overcharged for the meals it supplies to the US military in Iraq.

This follows on the heels of the discovery of BRIBERY on the part of Halliburton agents who OVERCHARGED the military $6.3 million for fuel delivered to bases in Iraq and Kuwait.

These glaring cases of graft and bribery may seem outrageous, but they are ONLY THE TIP OF THE capitalist iceberg – just business as usual for US imperialism.

These kinds of practices are in no way unique to Halliburton, or even the BUSH Administration. The interconnections between capital and the state run deep, not just in George W. Bush’s America but in all capitalist countries.

WHO DRAINS THE COFFERS? CONS DO.

southpaw

August 23rd, 2012
2:52 pm

Why Do POOR People Care About RICH People Paying More?

August 23rd, 2012
2:44 pm (and 1:26 pm)

First conservatives and liberals, now Democrats and Republicans. As I said at 2:00, you have to start before you can stop.

iggy

August 23rd, 2012
2:53 pm

‘The rich’ can’t bankroll Obama’s big-government plans

They can and they will. “You will buy me a car, you will provide free lunch, you will give me welfare or I will just steal it”.

Thulsa Doom

August 23rd, 2012
2:55 pm

Hurricane Isaac,

Come on now sir. You have to at least make a point. You failed. Try again sir.

If Republicans Stop Telling Lies About The Democratics, Democratics will Stop Telling The Truth About Republicans

August 23rd, 2012
2:56 pm

@Jose

August 23rd, 2012
2:39 pm
karl

when DEMOCRATS controlled both the house and the senate from 2007-2010………… they racked up $5 trillion in debt……………. the worst 2 congressional periods in history

so YES………………. THE DEMS DO DRAIN THE COFFERS

*****************************************************************************************************

The Halliburton Scandal: Business as Usual

In the latest in the long line of corporate scandals involving the BUSH Administration, Halliburton, the energy giant formerly run and still largely influenced abd controlled by Vice-President DICK CHENEY, has announced that it will repay the US government over $27.4 million after it was discovered that it had grossly overcharged for the meals it supplies to the US military in Iraq.

This follows on the heels of the discovery of BRIBERY on the part of Halliburton agents who OVERCHARGED the military $6.3 million for fuel delivered to bases in Iraq and Kuwait.

These glaring cases of graft and bribery may seem outrageous, but they are ONLY THE TIP OF THE capitalist iceberg – just business as usual for US imperialism.

These kinds of practices are in no way unique to Halliburton, or even the BUSH Administration. The interconnections between capital and the state run deep, not just in George W. Bush’s America but in all capitalist countries.

WHO DRAINS THE COFFERS?

CONS DO.

If Republicans Stop Telling Lies About The Democrats, Democrats Will Stop Telling The Truth About Republicans

August 23rd, 2012
2:57 pm

@Jose

August 23rd, 2012
2:39 pm
karl

when DEMOCRATS controlled both the house and the senate from 2007-2010………… they racked up $5 trillion in debt……………. the worst 2 congressional periods in history

so YES………………. THE DEMS DO DRAIN THE COFFERS

*****************************************************************************************************

The Halliburton Scandal: Business as Usual

In the latest in the long line of corporate scandals involving the BUSH Administration, Halliburton, the energy giant formerly run and still largely influenced abd controlled by Vice-President DICK CHENEY, has announced that it will repay the US government over $27.4 million after it was discovered that it had grossly overcharged for the meals it supplies to the US military in Iraq.

This follows on the heels of the discovery of BRIBERY on the part of Halliburton agents who OVERCHARGED the military $6.3 million for fuel delivered to bases in Iraq and Kuwait.

These glaring cases of graft and bribery may seem outrageous, but they are ONLY THE TIP OF THE capitalist iceberg – just business as usual for US imperialism.

These kinds of practices are in no way unique to Halliburton, or even the BUSH Administration. The interconnections between capital and the state run deep, not just in George W. Bush’s America but in all capitalist countries.

WHO DRAINS THE COFFERS?

CONS DO

Hurricane Isaac Headed To FLORIDA. God Don't Like Ugly

August 23rd, 2012
3:00 pm

@Thulsa Doom

August 23rd, 2012
2:55 pm
Hurricane Isaac,

Come on now sir. You have to at least make a point. You failed. Try again sir
********************************************************************************

The point is YOU CONS CAN’T CATCH A BREAK.

After the “LEGITIMATE RAPE” COMMENT and now a hurricane may

destroy your convention.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

SOMEBODY IS NOT LIVING RIGHT.

Karl Rove

August 23rd, 2012
3:03 pm

Jose- great job. Make sure they do not know that the stimulus plan and all the bailouts passed by Obama were keep us out of a Depression due to W running the country off a cliff. Of course none of that stimulus money went to tax cuts or Republican Congress persons did it. All went to minorities. And all that money for those wars Obama inherited? call those entitlements and scream and yell if he tries cutting the military budget. Just remember if pass gas in public blame it on the other guy..

If Republicans Stop Telling Lies About The Democrats, Democrats Will Stop Telling The Truth About Republicans

August 23rd, 2012
3:21 pm

@Karl Rove

August 23rd, 2012
3:03 pm
Of course none of that stimulus money went to tax cuts or Republican Congress persons did it. All went to minorities. And all that money for those wars Obama inherited?

*****************************************************************************

YOU ARE A LIAR.

ALL OF THE STIMULUS MONEY DID NOT GO TO MINORITIES.

ANYONE CAN GOOGLE:

The Stimulus Plan: A Detailed List of Spending
by Michael Grabell and Christopher Weaver, ProPublica – February 13, 2009 10:24 am EST

In February, the House approved the economic stimulus plan with a vote of 246 to 183,

$800 billion stimulus package

Special supplemental nutrition program for women, infants and children (WIC) $500,000,000

School lunch programs for schools in which at least 50% of students are eligible for free or reduced price meals $100,000,000

Temporary increase in benefits under the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (food stamps) $19,900,000,000

Child care assistance for low-income families to improve infant and toddler care $93,587,000

CONS ARE NOTORIOUS LIARS.

DON’T BELIEVE ANYTHING THEY SAY.

GOD HATES A LIAR.

td

August 23rd, 2012
3:25 pm

LIBERALS:

Fact: After we (The USA) used all the money we collected in taxes this year we were still $1.1 trillion short.

Fact: The top 10% of taxpayers in this country only made $1.3 trillion dollars last year.

Fact: If the Bush/Obama tax cuts for the top 1% are repealed then it will only bring in $80 billion dollars per year or two weeks of Federal government spending.

Where is the H3LL is the rest of the money going to come from?

If Republicans Stop Telling Lies About The Democrats, Democrats Will Stop Telling The Truth About Republicans

August 23rd, 2012
3:28 pm

@@Karl Rove

August 23rd, 2012
3:03 pm
Of course none of that stimulus money went to tax cuts or Republican Congress persons did it. All went to minorities. And all that money for those wars Obama inherited?

*****************************************************************************

YOU ARE A LIAR.

ALL OF THE STIMULUS MONEY DID NOT GO TO MINORITIES.

IT WENT TO:

Accountability $323,500,000

Aid to State and Local Governments $58,355,000,000

Aid to People Affected by Economic Downturn $36,910,807,000

If Republicans Stop Telling Lies About The Democrats, Democrats

Will Stop Telling The Truth About Republicans. :)

Verbal Kint

August 23rd, 2012
3:30 pm

Repubs Stop/Hurricane Issac – seemingly the same person that keeps changing their name. How bout that $500K in stimilus funds that went to advertisements on Maddow and Olbermanns’ shows on MSNBC? Didn’t see that in your list.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

August 23rd, 2012
3:31 pm

Want to guess which states are gaining populations and jobs? Yep. The red states.

Cool. That will make it that much harder for Republicans to win elections.

mwuahahahahahahahaha

Verbal Kint

August 23rd, 2012
3:35 pm

“Special supplemental nutrition program for women, infants and children (WIC) $500,000,000

School lunch programs for schools in which at least 50% of students are eligible for free or reduced price meals $100,000,000

Temporary increase in benefits under the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (food stamps) $19,900,000,000

Child care assistance for low-income families to improve infant and toddler care $93,587,000″

Flat screen TV purchases, cars, Playstaions…

Obama is over

August 23rd, 2012
3:39 pm

One of the fatal flaws in the Obama adminstration’s tax increase plan is that they assume that incomes will remain static and tax revenues will increase after their tax change in the midst of a recession. It is particularly ironic after they have spent months fixated on Romney’s tax returns. Wealthy people have access to the best tax counsel on the planet and in the face of tax increases will spend more time focusing on sheltering income than trying to grow their portfolio. JFK, Reagan, and Clinton all knew this. No incentive to invest in the current Obama malaise- principal preservation is more important. If the corporate tax rate is lower than the top individual rate, high net worth families will incorporate. The corporate tax was originally created so that the families who owned the companies would pay their “fair share”. The alternative minimum tax was created so that rich people with investment income would pay their “fair share”.Yesterday,the chief equity strategist at Goldman called for a 12.5% drop in the stock market between now and Jan. 1. Obama’s experience as a community organizer and performance as a commander in chief has illustrated a pattern where his attempts to move forward only involve taking from others. “You didn’t build that” is his sincere belief. The only thing Obama knows how to grow is his own ambition. That’s why Obama is so freaked out about having to face a guy like Paul Ryan.

KatyWatts

August 23rd, 2012
3:40 pm

Let’s just get to the facts. Obama is going to bankrupt this country. I have to work on a budget. He doesn’t think he has to. He hasn’t submitted a budget since he’s been in office. He is attempting to build a system that, given Spain, Portugal and Greece, is sure to fail. I just don’t understand why so many people back him.

Tom(Independent Viet Vet,USAF)

August 23rd, 2012
3:50 pm

KarlRove & Finn – Are you two guys going to blame Bush for the rest of your lives? He has been gone for 3 1/2 yrs, it is Obama’s baby now. About the wars, the House and Senate approved and funded it. Does not matter which party they were in. Personally my opinion, with the attacks on our troops by alledged friendlies, they should have ALL been sent home yesterday!!!!!!!!

Verbal Kint

August 23rd, 2012
4:12 pm

Tom – That’s all Finn and Obama’s got…..blame Bush. Expect to see topics such as abortion, gay marriage, Romney’s religon and tax returns be the order of the day from here on out. The economy? Pffft.

Up Up and Away

August 23rd, 2012
4:12 pm

“He hasn’t submitted a budget since he’s been in office.”

That is a lie. Are you naive or playing that way?

You can say it was voted down by his own party, which is true, but not that he hasn’t submitted a budget

Try again

Up Up and Away

August 23rd, 2012
4:14 pm

“Romney’s religon ”

Personally I think that it is stupid to even talk about Romney’s religion, but we know how that played out in 08 and still does for Obama

Both sides are guilty and hypocrites on this issue

Obama is over

August 23rd, 2012
4:14 pm

Katywatts-
Excellent point. A budget is essential to survive in these difficult times. Especially when gas will be between $4 and $5 by Thanksgiving and pork, chicken, and beef will increase 5% to 10% in the next six months because of Obama’s inaction concerning the drought. Daddy needs to take Obama’s credit card away before he gets further over his head. We can’t continue to bail him out operating without a budget or a plan.

Up Up and Away

August 23rd, 2012
4:15 pm

Verbal kint

Was the part of the stimulus that Ryan blatantly lied about when he said he didn’t take any on the list?

Up Up and Away

August 23rd, 2012
4:17 pm

“Daddy needs to take Obama’s credit card away before he gets further over his head”

Spending is done via appropriations bills. All of which are approved or denied by the House.

Obama can surely stop asking for money and the House can shut it down and stop writing checks anytime they like

md

August 23rd, 2012
4:17 pm

“Hint the educated states vote Blue.”

Wonder what they are teaching in CA since the biggest blue state has the biggest budget problem?

As for blue states in general, might want to look at the top 10 in terms of debt…..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/24/states-debt-combined-may-exceed-4-trillion_n_1029162.html#s430050&title=1_Connecticut

md

August 23rd, 2012
4:20 pm

” but not that he hasn’t submitted a budget”

Depends on perspective……back in the day, “budget” used to be synonymous with “balance”…..now, I’m not too sure how we evolved into budgets just showing how much we plan to overspend……..

Michael H. Smith

August 23rd, 2012
4:22 pm

Lawrence Summers?

Remember AIG? Didn’t forget the Committee to Save the World have you?

Good!

Cause you can’t blame Bush for what Greenspan, Rubin and Lawrence Summers did to DEREGULATE derivatives under the “CLINTON PRESIDENCY” which had a MAJOR impact on the depth of the economic collapse.

Wonder if old Larry has ever come to grips with that one, Kyle? Kind of amazing how honest these guys become once out of circle power.

JamVet

August 23rd, 2012
4:23 pm

Without religion, there are no objective grounds for morality.

Nonsense.

Of course there is.

Nearly 200 years ago, Schopenhauer’s On the Basis of Morality argued that human morality stemmed from compassion.

Makes a lot more sense to me than the theory that is dispensed by some invisible cloud fairy who is exceedingly angry and vengeful.

Unless one is still living in the 15th century, I guess…

As for the (W)orst Ever, he is responsible for nothing. At least to those who were insane enough to vote for him. Once, much less twice.

On January 21, 2009 they wiped his slate clean and allowed him to walk away scott free, even after overseeing the most destructive, incompetent and deadly administration in modern American history. By far.

THAT is why the neocon’s observations about Obama are humorously interesting but useless.

Up Up and Away

August 23rd, 2012
4:24 pm

md @ 4:20

I would agree. I would also say that the Democrats have been less then sincere on their end as well as the Republicans passing budgets they know have zero chance. Both are guilty of politics.

As far as spending, it is amazing that the the House is being given a pass. Obama can not spend too much that isn’t approved via appropriations bills.

Let me say spending is out of hand, regardless of party.

With that said, Republicans can’t keep writing checks then cry about Obama spending the money.

It is a two way street and they are both playing politics.

They can close the check book today

Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy

August 23rd, 2012
4:26 pm

Another soldier

Did you read your last paragraph, here it is.

When word leaked out this past week that Obama was proposing cuts to entitlements, Democrats in Congress and outside advocates kicked their opposition into high gear, making it clear that no bargain would win their support if it contained any cuts to Social Security or Medicare beneficiaries. That opposition may have broken the back of the bargain. “

He has no leadership! He couldn’t carry out what he was proposing to Boehner. That is why the deal fell through. Nothing he proposed was specific, and based on past history, had Boehner agreed on the tax raise, the spending cuts would have never been implemented.

So what is Obama proposing to cut now………………………..? It is campaign season, he does nothing but campaign, but he hasn’t had time to prepare an economic plan to get us out of the ditch. He has nothing in his economic quiver but tax the rich. And he expects people to vote for him, someone who has done squat, has no plans to do squat, and based on past experience will not do squat to improve the economy.

As they say in the investment game, past performance is you best indicator of future returns.

Up Up and Away

August 23rd, 2012
4:26 pm

MHS

What was done about the derivative issue from 2001 to 2007?

You do know that the Republican in the House were right with Clinton when he stupidly allowed the markets to be opened, right?

If they were not then they sure were complicit to make change when they had the WH and Congress

Michael H. Smith

August 23rd, 2012
4:30 pm

Makes a lot more sense to me than the theory that is dispensed by some invisible cloud fairy who is exceedingly angry and vengeful.

Not only is that statement non-sense, it is a lie brucie.

JamVet

August 23rd, 2012
4:36 pm

Go ahead, Michelle.

Elucidate on your cloud fairy and morality…

Michael H. Smith

August 23rd, 2012
4:37 pm

You do know that the Republican in the House were right with Clinton when he stupidly allowed the markets to be opened, right?

Yep! But I’m NOT STUPID enough or a total hack to lie out my buttock, like the socialist liberal trash that comes on this blog saying it was the Republicans and Bush who caused it all and left poor, poor lil’ barry to fix their mess. :cry:

Nah pal, I got

Michael H. Smith

August 23rd, 2012
4:41 pm

brucie you’re too spiritually and scripturally ignorant of the subject you’ve engaged to understand what you are talking about.

md

August 23rd, 2012
4:42 pm

“What was done about the derivative issue from 2001 to 2007?”

Derivatives weren’t the cause of the problem……the cause originated with that first wave of people that failed to pay back what they borrowed……without those folks, the snowball never gets started.

southpaw

August 23rd, 2012
4:43 pm

md @4:20 and UUA @4:28
It’s been said that without a budget, you can go broke and never know what happened. With a budget, you can PLAN how to go broke. ;-)

Up Up and Away

August 23rd, 2012
4:45 pm

md

Tell that to those with much more financial acumen then yourself. It was indeed part of the problem. And to your point, unpaid bills by stupid borrowers and the asinine lenders who lent the money

But you live in fantasy land all you like.

Beyond the Middle of the Road

August 23rd, 2012
4:46 pm

I realize I’m late to the party but…. Who, if anyone, has ever claimed that letting the highest tax bracket’s lower rate expire would pay for everything? Budget packages containing both spending cuts and tax increases have been introduced to Congress by the Dems multiple times. Sure these have much room for improvement; but the Republicans won’t even consider any tax increases as they’ve become members of the Church of Norquist. They consider “compromise” to be a four-letter word.

As an aside, please keep in mind that the highest tax bracket only kicks in for taxable gross income over $250,000. That’s after deductions, exemptions, allowances and adjustments. And let me reiterate, it only affects income greater than $250,000. So even the wealthy would still benefit from the retained lower tax rates below $250,000.

Michael H. Smith

August 23rd, 2012
4:47 pm

Derivatives weren’t the cause of the problem……the cause originated with that first wave of people that failed to pay back what they borrowed……without those folks, the snowball never gets started.

Not quite right. The problem and cause was fraud plain and simple. People were given loans that should never have received them. It – the fraud- snowballed from there and the derivatives, as I said had a MAJOR impact on the collapse, never claimed they were the root cause of it.

md

August 23rd, 2012
4:48 pm

“With a budget, you can PLAN how to go broke”

One would think sitting down and putting it on paper would actually be a wake up call, it clearly defines the problem……not for the misfits…..

JamVet

August 23rd, 2012
4:49 pm

Oh Michelle, my belle.

You got your over-sized panties in a wad, didn’t you?

It looks like you need some desperate work on YOUR morality!

LOL…

Up Up and Away

August 23rd, 2012
4:49 pm

MHS

Thank you. Lenders should not have been lending and borrowers should not have been taking the loans they did.

Anyone with the financial acumen to come up with those crazy type loans and lending regs, knew it wouldn’t last, but the money was to good to say no. Add that with derivative games and you have a huge mess.

Michael H. Smith

August 23rd, 2012
4:50 pm

Beyond the Middle of the Road,

The Senate is controlled by the democrats, now tell me when was the last budget they past?

I’m not buying what you are selling my friend.

md

August 23rd, 2012
4:51 pm

“Tell that to those with much more financial acumen then yourself. It was indeed part of the problem. And to your point, unpaid bills by stupid borrowers and the asinine lenders who lent the money”

“Part” of the problem is not the same as the “cause” of the problem……there can not be a bad derivative without there first being a defaulting customer………

Numbers-R-US

August 23rd, 2012
4:51 pm

Numbers @ 12:26: (Sighing) If you knew anything about numbers and federal finances, you would know it is routine for economists to talk about the post-WW2 period, for the reasons I explained earlier. If you knew anything about averages, you would know that adding a few years’ data to such a large sample isn’t going to change these figures by more than a few tenths of a percentage point.

Really, Kyle:

So, if I average the Obama budget deficits for 2009 through 2011, I get -9.3 but when I average 2000 to 2011, I get -3.5. No difference in your mind, huh. Now, when I average 1930 to 1941, I get -3.1 and when I average 1930-1945, I get -7.3. Again, no difference in your mind. (Sigh, indeed) Now, let’s take the later numbers–1946-1999 and that deficit average is -1.8 but it is -3.1 when taken from 1942-1999. Again, just a few tenths in your mind, Kyle. (bigger sigh)

You keep slinging away with objections that have nothing to do with the facts, or even anyone’s arguments. (What in the world would the “Romney/Ryan composite” be?) I explained to you that the CBPP admits in its own graphic that it isn’t taking account of a crucial element of the plan. To you, that equates to “ooh, pretty colors!” You have nothing.

And again, you offer nothing in defense especially given that Romney/Ryan refuse to divulge their magical fairy dust that would refute anything at all much less the cbpp numbers. Show me some numbers, Kyle. Preferably some that your Romney/Ryan team are willing to provide and stand behind. Wouldn’t that be a pleasant departure from their past performance.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

August 23rd, 2012
4:52 pm

I agree with Jamvet, for once, he is no more than an animated piece of meat with a bizzare idea of compassion.

md

August 23rd, 2012
4:54 pm

“The problem and cause was fraud plain and simple.”

Yes, on the party that signed the dotted line saying they could afford the note. I don’t care how much info one collects, the borrower is the only one that knows his true financial situation. One can have the most wonderful set of ratios, but if that individual also owes uncle Bob, aunt Sue, and all the neighbors it will not show up on any reporting docs…….

And not a single one of them were forced to sign anything……….

Michael H. Smith

August 23rd, 2012
4:54 pm

Up Up and Away

And you know that is called “fraud”. I think you’re smart enough to know that you can’t regulate “fraud”. Yet the same people I nail night after night for their phony statements keep crying for more regulations. Regulations, even the good and needful ones, are only as good as the enforcement thereof.

southpaw

August 23rd, 2012
4:55 pm

“not for the misfits”

And there are a few hundred of those deciding how to spend the country’s money. After all these years, the wake-up call hasn’t woke them up yet.

Up Up and Away

August 23rd, 2012
4:56 pm

md

whatever……………… You are ignorant to the facts

Sorry but that is the truth

If you owned your own store and decided that you could get more customers with allowing them to take more credit and lowering the standards of which you normally allow, common sense tells you it wont work. You do it anyway. You get what you get.

So if you want to play root cause analysis, which you appear to be too partisan and myopic to do in an honest manner, then play it from the beginning. Not from where it suits your narrative and ideology.

Peace

Up Up and Away

August 23rd, 2012
4:57 pm

MHS

As I stated, you had dumb, dumber and dumbest.

Consumer, lender and the wall street boys

Michael H. Smith

August 23rd, 2012
4:58 pm

Yes, on the party that signed the dotted line saying they could afford the note.

It was far worse than that… everyone knew they were committing fraud but in all truthfulness nobody gave a rat’s rump as long as everybody was getting what they wanted, until the fraud could no longer be denied or ignored.

Michael H. Smith

August 23rd, 2012
5:00 pm

you had dumb, dumber and dumbest.

Nah, what you had was crooked, crookeder and crookedest.

Up Up and Away

August 23rd, 2012
5:02 pm

md

Addition to me 4:56

Whatever recourse you have because your plan to increase demand fell through does NOT negate the ROOT CAUSE of your troubles………… which was lowering standards and increasing the amount of credit you did in the past.

That was the root cause when looking at the entire picture. Take off your partisan rose glasses and take a look at the real world for a change and not the hypothetical world you are playing in.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

August 23rd, 2012
5:03 pm

I wonder why the wild beasts that we “evolved” from eat each other?

Have they no compassion?

md

August 23rd, 2012
5:03 pm

“whatever……………… You are ignorant to the facts

Sorry but that is the truth

If you owned your own store and decided that you could get more customers with allowing them to take more credit and lowering the standards of which you normally allow, common sense tells you it wont work. You do it anyway. You get what you get. ”

Except for your theory to be true, one has to assume that entire first wave all had bad credit/ratios…….I think that is an awful big assumption………

Up Up and Away

August 23rd, 2012
5:04 pm

MHS

Agreed. Either way the ROOT CAUSE was lowing the standards and increasing the amount of credit when they knew based on historical numbers it would not work.

But they money was too damn good.

And if you were the Big Boys it didn’t matter much in the end because Uncle Sam bailed you out of your stupidity. They then took the money at a low interest rate and made money off of it as they paid it back.

It was a scam coming and going if you sat at the top.

Up Up and Away

August 23rd, 2012
5:04 pm

md

No big assumption. We all witnessed what occurred.

Up Up and Away

August 23rd, 2012
5:05 pm

md

To assume all this people know had good credit and would pay back was the assumption……. and it was wrong

ROOT CAUSE………………………

Michael H. Smith

August 23rd, 2012
5:06 pm

Pleasant evening to all…

Anti-Obama Film, ‘2016: Obama’s America,’ Expanding Release After Notable Success (VIDEO)

The film has already shot up to the No. 2 grossing documentary of the year, and now anti-Obama project “2016: Obama’s America,” based on “The Roots of Obama’s Rage” by conservative author Dinesh D’Souza’s, will expand nationwide this weekend.

The anti-Obama film, co-directed by D’Souza and John Sullivan and produced by Academy Award winner Gerald R. Molen, has already grossed $2.1 million in 169 theaters, according to the Hollywood Reporter. It placed just behind “Bully,” which earned $3.2 million, and currently ranks as the No. 12 political documentary of all time. For the weekend of Aug. 17, the film hit No. 13 on the overall domestic box-office chart, according to Box Office Mojo.

Come Friday, “2016: Obama’s America” will expand to 1,075 theaters just ahead of the Republican National Convention, which kicks off Aug. 27 in Tampa, Fla….

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/22/anti-obama-2016-obamas-america-release_n_1821520.html

Numbers-R-US

August 23rd, 2012
5:08 pm

Towncrier

August 23rd, 2012
5:13 pm

“Of course there is. Nearly 200 years ago, Schopenhauer’s On the Basis of Morality argued that human morality stemmed from compassion.”

Ummm… “compassion” is a subjective rather than an objective phenomenon. I’m not sure someone like Ted Bundy, Hitler, Stalin (an atheist), Mao (an atheist) or Pol Pot had very much of it.

But thanks for playing. Let me know when you come up with an OBJECTIVE grounds from morality other than religion.

JamVet

August 23rd, 2012
5:14 pm

So YOUR theory is not subjective???

That is funny…

JDW

August 23rd, 2012
5:22 pm

@Towncrier…”But thanks for playing. Let me know when you come up with an OBJECTIVE grounds from morality other than religion.”

Unless God is coming to your house for dinner tonight…religion is more subjectively grounded than compassion.

As for Ted Bundy et al…compassion didn’t stop them but neither did the power of the Almighty.

Shine

August 23rd, 2012
5:30 pm

pfffttt…where’s the Romney plan other than “elect me and trust me”? All Romney is concerned about is the tax cuts for the wealthy. He has such a history the rest (guns, abortion, etc etc etc etc) will be compromisable with this phoney charlatan. I’ll take Obama over these kooks.

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
5:30 pm

PROUD NAVY VET: Lil’ Barry Bailout…Why are you so angry?…You and a few other people on here are the reason the United States is in the trouble we are in. If we can’t be civil and respectful, we will never come together as a nation.
————–

Wow. Powerfully stated. The eight years of bile directed toward your President Bush must have been quite upsetting.

Maybe you can tell us why Obozo is so angry. Angry with Americans who work for a living who he claims aren’t paying their “fair share”, even though they’re paying theirs plus that of a few other folks. Angry with Americans who want to practice their religion as they wish, without being forced at the point of a gun to do things that violate their most sacred beliefs. Angry at people who don’t belong to unions who want to build a factory in a right-to-work state. And on and on…

You’re a hypocrite with a selective memory.

Towncrier

August 23rd, 2012
5:44 pm

“Unless God is coming to your house for dinner tonight…religion is more subjectively grounded than compassion.”

If none of the religious texts we have available to us has been authored by God, then I would agree. If, however, one has been authored by God then you are wrong.

“As for Ted Bundy et al…compassion didn’t stop them but neither did the power of the Almighty.”

No. But that does not therefore prove He doesn’t exist or care or hasn’t the power to so act. It is the biggest obstacle to belief in God and we don’t get the answers we might desire from the book of Job. We are only asked, “what do we know, really”? And the answer, of course, is not a whole lot.

It is not hard to believe in the existence of God (that the orderly universe was created rather than being the incredibly improbable result of many happy accidents). And, if you’ve read a LOT of world literature, it is not all that hard to believe the Bible is actually the word of God. That is because of its remarkable internal consistency (given the fact it was compose over two millenia by scores of authors – compare the differing treatment of the same existing stories by Marlowe and Shakespeare or the inconsistent edicts from the Catholic Church to see what I mean), because it has been shown to be historically accurate time after time over and against skeptics claims to the contrary and because it undeniably speaks with an authority not found in any other text. What is hard to believe is that God is good when things are bad. Even Job winds up imputing wrongdoing to God.

fair and balanced

August 23rd, 2012
5:50 pm

More left wing reporting from the lamestream media:

“”"”"”"”"”"”Mitt Romney has had a tough couple of weeks on the campaign trail — and it shows in the latest Fox News poll. After a barrage of campaign ads, negative news coverage of his overseas trip and ongoing talk about his tax returns, Romney’s favorable rating and standing in the trial ballot have declined. As a result, President Obama has opened his biggest lead since Romney became the presumptive Republican nominee.
The president would take 49 percent of the vote compared to Romney’s 40 percent in a head-to-head matchup if the election were held today, the poll found. Last month, Obama had a four percentage-point edge of 45 percent to 41 percent. This marks the second time this year the president has had a lead outside the poll’s margin of sampling error.”"”"”"”"”"”"

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/09/fox-news-poll-obama-lead-grows-as-romney-support-slips/&vm=r?intcmp=obinsite#ixzz24POkvHv8

I thought Ryan would give Willard a bump- maybe they need that ole gal from Alaska instead.

Towncrier

August 23rd, 2012
6:00 pm

“Obama carries the college educated vote by a hefty margin. I guess all that book learnin’ and those folks with undergraduate and advanced degrees are morons?”

Education is no guarantor of intelligence, wisdom, common sense or morality (a fact that can easily be proven). I have known plenty of smart people without college degrees. Education does not have to come from an “institution of higher learning” for it to be valid and useful – it can come principally from the interaction with other people. Besides, there is in truth nary a person who is truly stupid. We are all of us idiot savants to some extent, but that is largely because we are often unthinking rather than stupid. I think only snobs look down their nose at those less educated.

td

August 23rd, 2012
6:01 pm

fair and balanced

August 23rd, 2012
5:50 pm

You forgot to mention that the 44% of the polled were Democrats and 35% polled were republicans. Take the disparity away and the election is tied. Way more realistic.

Sick of Progs

August 23rd, 2012
6:09 pm

Towncrier
August 23rd, 2012
6:00 pm

“Obama carries the college educated vote by a hefty margin. I guess all that book learnin’ and those folks with undergraduate and advanced degrees are morons?”

Education is no guarantor of intelligence, wisdom, common sense or morality (a fact that can easily be proven). I have known plenty of smart people without college degrees. Education does not have to come from an “institution of higher learning” for it to be valid and useful – it can come principally from the interaction with other people.

You hit the nail on the head with this one. I’ve met computer nerds that could school any computer science grad after four years of college. Academia is a fraud. Most times the scholarly come out with an entitlement because they put their time in school, yet have no particular set of skills that can be an asset to their employer. Yet they’ve tapped their financial resources to get a business degree and route e-mails at a corporation. At least Obama can scoop ice cream.

fair and balanced

August 23rd, 2012
6:20 pm

td- 6:01 Here are today’s poll results with the Ryan bump- last one was almost two weeks ago:

Ohio Ohio Poll/Univ of Cin. Obama 49, Romney 46 Obama +3
Florida CBS/NYT/Quinnipiac Romney 46, Obama 49 Obama +3
Ohio CBS/NYT/Quinnipiac Obama 50, Romney 44 Obama +6
Wisconsin CBS/NYT/Quinnipiac Obama 49, Romney 47 Obama +2
Missouri PPP (D) Romney 52, Obama 42 Romney +10
Michigan Detroit News Obama 48, Romney 42 Obama +6
Pennsylvania Morning Call Obama 49, Romney 40 Obama +9
Connecticut Rasmussen Reports Obama 51, Romney 43 Obama +8

looks like the only place Romney is ahead is Missouri- wonder why?

JamVet

August 23rd, 2012
6:21 pm

Academia is a fraud.

Exactly!

Which explains why virtually of the titans of business, medicine, law, the military and countless other human endeavors avoided going to prestigious institutions of higher learning and instead chose to drop out of high school.

And you wonder how you cons got the label as the anti-intellectual gang….

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
6:21 pm

What a surprise–young skulls full of mush get four years of libtard indoctrination and by a slim margin they support a libtard.

Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy

August 23rd, 2012
6:24 pm

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-23/u-s-incomes-feel-more-in-recovery-sentier-says.html

Median household income fell 4.8 percent on an inflation- adjusted basis since the recession ended in June 2009, more than the 2.6 percent drop during the 18-month contraction, the research firm’s Gordon Green and John Coder wrote in a report today. Household income is 7.2 percent below the December 2007 level, the former Census Bureau economic statisticians wrote.
“Almost every group is worse off than it was three years ago, and some groups had very large declines in income,” Green, who previously directed work on the Census Bureau’s income and poverty statistics program, said in a phone interview today. “We’re in an unprecedented period of economic stagnation.”

Are you better off today than 4 years ago? Not a chance!

@@

August 23rd, 2012
6:27 pm

Geez! What’s with the long drawn out names?

Kyle,

Can we just call:

If Republicans Stop
Telling Lies About
The Democrats, Democrats
Will Stop Telling The
Truth About
Republicans

IRS?

schnirt

Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy

August 23rd, 2012
6:31 pm

From Fox news bought ten posts back someone was citing Fox as saying Romney was getting trounced. Huh?

Less than a week before the Republican convention begins, the race for the White House is a virtual tie. According to a Fox News poll of likely voters, the Mitt Romney-Paul Ryan ticket receives the backing of 45 percent, while the Barack Obama-Joe Biden ticket garners 44 percent.
The poll, released Thursday, is the first Fox has conducted among likely voters this year, which means an apples-to-apples comparison can’t be made to previous polls. Likely voters are eligible/registered voters who will most likely cast a ballot in this year’s presidential election.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/23/fox-news-poll-race-for-white-house-tightens/#ixzz24PYNo0Vy

Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy

August 23rd, 2012
6:39 pm

Same poll independents favor Romney by 10. Good news!

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

August 23rd, 2012
6:48 pm

A University of Colorado analysis of state-by-state factors leading to the Electoral College selection of every U.S. president since 1980 forecasts that the 2012 winner will be Mitt Romney.

“Based on our forecasting model, it becomes clear that the president is in electoral trouble,” said Bickers, also director of the CU in DC Internship Program.

Now the libs have no use for science.

Archibald Leach

August 23rd, 2012
6:51 pm

Kyle, do you seriously believe Paul Ryan has credibility when it comes to deficits and debt? Were you asleep during the last administration? Look at Ryan’s voting history. Like so many other republicans who were in Congress during the W Bush years, Ryan amazingly morphed into a “fiscal hawk” in 2009. And he still asked for stimulus money in 2010. Seriously??? Oh and Ryan’s current budget increases defense spending. Hmm, i wonder why…

md

August 23rd, 2012
6:53 pm

Sorry, the ROOT CAUSE was not paying the note……..the only individual that knew for sure was the one that didn’t pay it back…….the assumption occurs when one assumes the lender KNEW they wouldn’t pay it back.

I saw folks not pay that had stellar ratios and I say others pay when one would swear they couldn’t come up with the money…….it’s pure assumption to think anyone was going to automatically default.

Jack

August 23rd, 2012
7:02 pm

I’m still getting headaches from Obama’s “you didn’t build that” absurdity. Start a business and see how much help you get. Obama has a fundamental disbelief in individual achievementt and responsibility.

JDW

August 23rd, 2012
7:04 pm

Town tier…”If none of the religious texts we have available to us has been authored by God, then I would agree. If, however, one has been authored by God then you are wrong.”

I guess you saw him write…no…pure speculation and legend. :roll:

MarkV

August 23rd, 2012
7:05 pm

Sick of Progs @6:09 pm

This anti-intellectual claptrap is too silly to be taken seriously. The fact that some people without higher education can be very successful does not prove anything. Let’s see how far we would get with any complex project, whether it is a space flight, medical research or archeological work, just to name a few, without people educated in institutions of higher learning.

md

August 23rd, 2012
7:10 pm

“I’m still getting headaches from Obama’s “you didn’t build that” absurdity. ”

I heard they were going to distribute Phelps’ gold medals to other swimmers because he didn’t build the pool.

md

August 23rd, 2012
7:13 pm

” Let’s see how far we would get with any complex project, whether it is a space flight, medical research or archeological work, just to name a few, without people educated in institutions of higher learning.”

You are aware that there are many self-taught smart people around the world…..right?

Bill Gates didn’t even finish college……he did his own thing in his garage…..

gm

August 23rd, 2012
7:13 pm

Of course Mitt wants to cut education, so he can keep poor, middle class whites at the same level and he and his rich educated pals can send their jobs overseas, and we in America can continue to be at the bottom compared to the world in education.

This is why poor, middle class white males dont like Obama, because he wants to compete in the 21st century and realize you have to educate our youth, and the funny thing these idiots really believe a man who has made billions and dont want to show the world how he made it off the back of the middle classs support this.

God help satan rep party”””’

Towncrier

August 23rd, 2012
7:22 pm

“I guess you saw him write…no…pure speculation and legend.”

No. But I accept His claim that he did steer its composition. The assertion is made in the Bible; it is either true or not.

md

August 23rd, 2012
7:26 pm

gm…..you do realize that it has been that middle and lower class that has been driving down the cost of goods that forced those jobs overseas….right?

We can’t have our cake and expect to eat it too when demanding cheap goods that are made with much cheaper labor……….want it to stop? Change your buying habits……..

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
7:29 pm

Archibald Leach: do you seriously believe Paul Ryan has credibility when it comes to deficits and debt?
———————–

Compared to who? The only pResident to have proposed and run not just one trillion-plus deficit, but four?

Get a grip.

Towncrier

August 23rd, 2012
7:29 pm

“This anti-intellectual claptrap is too silly to be taken seriously.”

Yet here is pro-intellectual claptrap that is equally as inane. Education is useful. But it doesn’t necessarily or even mostly make people better or smarter or wiser. I feel anyone who thinks so is showing himself to be a snob. And this is coming from someone with an several degrees from good universities. Education has certainly helped me. But it is simply not as big a deal as some make it out to be.

Towncrier

August 23rd, 2012
7:30 pm

I’m out. Goodnight all.

Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy

August 23rd, 2012
7:35 pm

gm,
first it was the dog on the car roof, didn’t work
first it was the tax returns, didn’t work.
then mediscare, didn’t work
then “legitimate” rape, didn’t work
now education, won’t work, education hasn’t improved one iota in the last four years.

Anything to take the attention off new jobless claims yesterday 370,000, 50% disapproval of Obama (Fox News Poll, 8/22/12) and his failure to remedy anything.

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
7:35 pm

Ryan has a plan. It significantly reduces the deficit.

Obozo has a plan too–to keep the pigs running to the slop bucket.

ITS ALL BUSH'S FAULT

August 23rd, 2012
8:06 pm

The rich wont have any money left after they finish bankrolling Rob-Me …..LOSERS….OBAMA…2012

Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy

August 23rd, 2012
8:19 pm

Gloom, despair, and agony on me
Deep, dark depression, excessive misery
If it weren’t for bad luck, I’d have no luck at all
Gloom, despair, and agony on me

The Obamanation 2012

retiredds

August 23rd, 2012
8:21 pm

Donors would benefit from Romney energy plan
By Christopher Schnaars and Ray Locker, USA TODAY
Updated 58m ago

Comments

Reprints & Permissions

WASHINGTON – Mitt Romney’s campaign and a super PAC backing him have received more than $15 million from oil, coal and other energy interests, many of which would benefit from the energy plan Romney unveiled Thursday.

Now you don’t think that this money will influence Romney’s energy plan, do you? Oooops, it already has. I thought Romney was wealthy enough not to be bought.

Dusty

August 23rd, 2012
8:32 pm

Well, Kyle is correct on this one. Raising taxes on the rich will only make a small dent in the deficit. I have always felt that imposing on one class of citizens is neither fair nor equal. I still feel that way. The rich have equal rights just like every one else. That should include taxes.

As to the value of education, I am inclined to agree with MarkV. No vast project or reseach in any field can progress without the “learned”. That does not mean that highly intelligent people cannot contribute great things without advnced levels of education. They can. The gifted mind works with or without education. But education opens vistas that are not usually reached otherwise. That is why we send children to school at an early age.

td

August 23rd, 2012
8:33 pm

fair and balanced

August 23rd, 2012
6:20 pm

td- 6:01 Here are today’s poll results with the Ryan bump- last one was almost two weeks ago:

Ohio Ohio Poll/Univ of Cin. Obama 49, Romney 46 Obama +3
Florida CBS/NYT/Quinnipiac Romney 46, Obama 49 Obama +3
Ohio CBS/NYT/Quinnipiac Obama 50, Romney 44 Obama +6
Wisconsin CBS/NYT/Quinnipiac Obama 49, Romney 47 Obama +2
Missouri PPP (D) Romney 52, Obama 42 Romney +10
Michigan Detroit News Obama 48, Romney 42 Obama +6
Pennsylvania Morning Call Obama 49, Romney 40 Obama +9
Connecticut Rasmussen Reports Obama 51, Romney 43 Obama +8

looks like the only place Romney is ahead is Missouri- wonder why?

Maybe because of the following:

1: Plus 9% Democratic party affiliation in Ohio
2: Plus 6% Democratic party affiliation in Flordia
3: Plus 4% Democratic party affiliation in Wis

Florida poll says it is Obama +3 with a 6% party affiliation gap.
Ohio poll says it is Obama +6 with a 9% party affiliation gap
Wis poll says it is Obama + 4 with a with a 4% party affiliation gap.

Tanisha

August 23rd, 2012
8:42 pm

Anyone who follows the business news has heard that the Federal Reserve is on the cusp of doing another quantitative easing, i.e. printing more billions of fiat $s to prop up our economy.

Long as the feds can get away with such macinations the “government functions” will be covered. Might as well relax and enjoy the ride till the bill comes due.

Dusty

August 23rd, 2012
8:57 pm

Tanisha,8:42

Maybe we can dig up some Confederate money out of a rusted old can and spend it. Sounds like it might be as vauable as what is being printed at the moment. I hope GA Power and some of those others won’t be picky about how they get paid.

cc

August 23rd, 2012
9:03 pm

gm:

“God help satan rep party”””’”

I’m fairly sure God doesn’t take sides in this race but if he did, I’m certain he would pick Romney over obama.

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 23rd, 2012
9:08 pm

WASHINGTON – Obozo’s campaign and a super PAC backing him have received more than $15 million from GE, energy, and Wall Street interests, many of which would benefit from the obscene spending and bailout plans Obozo unveiled Thursday.

Now you don’t think that this money will influence Obozo’s liberal fascist plans, do you? Oooops, it already has. I thought Obozo was concerned with the little guy enough not to be bought.
—————————–

Fixed.

cc

August 23rd, 2012
9:09 pm

“Anyone who follows the business news has heard that the Federal Reserve is on the cusp of doing another quantitative easing, i.e. printing more billions of fiat $s to prop up our economy.”

Moving ever closer to collapsing the economy . . .

Dusty

August 23rd, 2012
9:14 pm

retiredds 8:21

You are saying that Romney’s energy policies are made only because those companies have contributed a great deal to his election efforts. You guessed incorrectly as why they support Romney.

Energy companies know that Romney has a sound plan that will help all business efforts in the USA. to grow. He also has experience in that field. Big business has already experienced the inefficiencies of Obama and don’t care to be dragged down a second time.. They look forward to an improved economy under Romney. I do too. That is one reason I will vote for Romney

cc

August 23rd, 2012
9:14 pm

obama ought to spend his time packing everything he owns. He is leaving 1600 PA Ave. in January. Maybe he can find a friendly country in which to live, say Kenya. His only chance of residing in a truly muslim country is if Michelle my bell divorces him ’cause she ain’t going to be a second class citizen anywhere! Besides, she is proud of her country for the first time . . .

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

August 23rd, 2012
9:25 pm

The typical household income for people age 55 to 64 years old is almost 10 percent less in today’s dollars than it was when the recovery officially began three years ago, according to a new report from Sentier Research, a data analysis company that specializes in demographic and income data.

Who ever calls this a “recovery” is a total ahole and most likely an obozo worm.

I don’t know how much more proof anyone needs that its time to put this pos out to the curb with the rest of the trash.

Dusty

August 23rd, 2012
9:53 pm

I Report,

I’ve noticed that the price of groceries keeps inching up a litle bit at a time. Gasoline has risen in price again. This is not a good time for the shopper with less money to spend.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

August 23rd, 2012
9:58 pm

The only good thing rising right now is Romney’s position in the polls.

Hillbilly D

August 23rd, 2012
10:18 pm

This is not a good time for the shopper with less money to spend.

I can’t figure out where the people with the buggies full of steaks and $10 bottles of wine are getting their money.

iggy

August 23rd, 2012
10:38 pm

“I can’t figure out where the people with the buggies full of steaks and $10 bottles of wine are getting their money.”

Hamburger steak and night train? That would be the welfare parents.

Up Up and Away

August 23rd, 2012
10:40 pm

Dusty

Pull yourself up by your boot straps………

That is the rights mantra

I have did it much better than most of you who cry and moan on this blog

Hillbilly D

August 23rd, 2012
10:43 pm

Hamburger steak and night train? That would be the welfare parents.

They ain’t hamburger steaks.

iggy

August 23rd, 2012
10:47 pm

“Obama has a fundamental disbelief in individual achievementt and responsibility.”

He hates it and believes he, Big Daddy-O, can provide for all your needs whether you like it or not.

MarkV

August 23rd, 2012
10:49 pm

md @7:13 pm: “You are aware that there are many self-taught smart people around the world…..right?”

md,
Have you read what I have written? Or is it beyond your powers of comprehension?

Up Up and Away

August 23rd, 2012
11:45 pm

md

dont be a dolt

You libs

August 23rd, 2012
11:48 pm

How many days has this been up and it has three hundred something comments?

AJC needs to hire some more people to keep up with the load. “Kyle Wingfield, Big Time Job Creator.”

Gotta love that free market. Crush that liberal Bookman guy, Kyle.

If only you had a little more tax relief, there’s no telling what you could do.

Old Timer

August 24th, 2012
12:22 am

As a start let us get rid of all the freeloaders, baby factories and illegals off the supplemental take. There are no free lunches as some have been told–99 weeks of unemplyment–don’t have to look for a job and the beat goes on. Unreal.

Oblama

August 24th, 2012
12:51 am

Obama favors bird houses over teachers. Just part of his bending over to the irrational far left environ – wackos.

Oblama

August 24th, 2012
12:58 am

Obama is a civil rats class action suit lawyer. He doesn’t have a clue what economics is about. He’s never opened an economics book in his life. With Nagging Pelosi and Harry Weed advising Obama on economics he’s put our economy on life support.

Oblama

August 24th, 2012
1:02 am

The number of people on disability has tripled under Obama. Disability is the new welfare.

@@

August 24th, 2012
6:07 am

I can’t figure out where the people with the buggies full of steaks and $10 bottles of wine are getting their money.

Hillbilly:

Funny you should mention ^^^ that.

I’m in line the other day…the person behind me has a coupl’a big boxes of wine, a case of beer & a coupl’a bottles of wine.

I’m buying deli meat because my daughter’s boyfriend is staying the weekend…pastrami & roast beef. The cashier asks the boozer if the meats are hers. She responds “Ew…NO! Who eats red meat these days.” To which I replied…”How’s that liquid diet working out for ‘ya?”

When opportunity knocks, I answer.

@@

August 24th, 2012
6:11 am

You libs:

How many days has this been up…

One.

JDW

August 24th, 2012
7:22 am

@Towncrier…”No. But I accept His claim that he did steer its composition. The assertion is made in the Bible; it is either true or not.”

And that is subjective faith versus objective fact.

JamVet

August 24th, 2012
7:41 am

Our freeloading, underachieving, uneducated, lower middle class cons here pretty much all think that their status in life is not cause by the horrible choices they have made.

They think it is because of and blame Obama (primarily) and the evil government or somebody/anybody else.

Sad…

md

August 24th, 2012
7:41 am

“md,
Have you read what I have written? Or is it beyond your powers of comprehension?”

Sure did, but here it is again in case you have forgotten:

” Let’s see how far we would get with any complex project, whether it is a space flight, medical research or archeological work, just to name a few, without people educated in institutions of higher learning.”

Then ask yourself how in the world people managed to even get by before all these institutions of higher learning came into being…….

They make the information easier to obtain, but that doesn’t equate to in-obtainable…….there is a difference.

iggy

August 24th, 2012
7:44 am

“Our freeloading, underachieving, uneducated, Clayton County type class bums here pretty much all think that their status in life is not cause by the horrible choices they have made.”

Fixed your error. No need to thank me!

@@

August 24th, 2012
7:58 am

iggy:

Must you rub it in?

Whodathunk Victor Hill would be rewarded for the horrible choices HE made during his first go’round?

I still haven’t gotten over it.

JKL2

August 24th, 2012
8:06 am

but, but, but those rich people are evil and need to pay their fair share…

in obama’s “new world order” the average family income is $14,400. So all you welfare queens need to pony up because to the rest of the world you are the evil rich.

Be careful what you wish for.

Lynnie Gal

August 24th, 2012
8:11 am

The fix for Social Security and Medicare is obvious–raise the cap on payroll tax and extend it to capital gains as well. The cap on contributing to Social Security is too low–the millionaires and billionaires pay the same amount as a person making $100,000 because that’s the cap. Raise the cap to $250,000. Or to a million if necessary. The rich, i.e. people like the Romneys, only pay 13%, or so he says. Why does he pay 13% when 99% are paying 27%? The rich have gotten away with this since Ronald Reagan. That’s why we’re broke and talking about Medicare & SS going broke. RAISE THE CAP is the answer. Oh, and by the way–EVERYONE pays taxes. Sales tax, gas tax, property tax, payroll tax, state tax, etc. Not everyone makes enough to pay federal taxes, so don’t bellyache with the false remark, “Not everybody pays taxes.”

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

August 24th, 2012
8:13 am

the Pew Research Center released a study on the economic status and attitudes of middle-class voters. It was devastating. The size of the middle class has dropped from 61 percent of all adults 40 years ago to a bare majority now. Median middle-class income has fallen from $72,956 to $69,487 since 2000, Pew found, while median net worth declined 28 percent, wiping out two decades of gains. Pew called it “a lost decade for the middle class.” Meanwhile, the upper-income group increased its share of the nation’s income and makes up 46 percent of the total, as opposed to 29 percent in 1971.

salon.com with links to http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2012/08/22/the-lost-decade-of-the-middle-class/

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

August 24th, 2012
8:14 am

all you welfare queens

A group which now includes a growing number of middle and working class whites……

iggy

August 24th, 2012
8:18 am

@@

August 24th, 2012
7:58 am

OOPS…you, of course being the exception!!

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 24th, 2012
8:19 am

Isn’t it racist to point out the skin color of welfare recipients?

Finn: Racist.

ITS ALL BUSHS FAULT

August 24th, 2012
8:20 am

You CONS GO Ahead a keep ur Loser Robe-me.

iggy

August 24th, 2012
8:21 am

@@…based on what Ive heard and due to Hills pending legal issues, Deal could prevent Him from taking office. In your opinion do you think Deal should prevent if he can do so? Im thinking, regardless, to let Hill serve as the CC citizens, you being the exception, get what they deserve.

PS…I heard Finn used his fake documentation to cast his vote for Uncle Victor.

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 24th, 2012
8:23 am

JamVet: Our freeloading, underachieving, uneducated, lower middle class cons here pretty much all think that their status in life is not cause by the horrible choices they have made.
———-

I’m not seeing many of the folks you describe here at Kyle’s place.

Are you just projecting, or have you adopted a favorite debate technique of your Messiah’s–the straw man argument?

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

August 24th, 2012
8:23 am

I heard Finn used his fake documentation to cast his vote

5 times

iggy

August 24th, 2012
8:27 am

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

August 24th, 2012
8:30 am

By the way, concerning Tampa next week, does Mitt know how to swim?

@@

August 24th, 2012
8:36 am

iggy:

Do I think Deal should intervene?

No! The people, minus myself and a handful of others, have spoken.

I’m for letting the National Sheriff’s Association deal with Hill. A local judge has scheduled his court case for sometime in November. We’ll have to wait and see where that goes.

If he’s found guilty on all indictments, it’s being reported that he could get 535 years in prison. Seems a bit much to me, but if that’s the only way we can be rid of the bad penny, I’m good to go.

The guy is an accident looking for a place to happen.

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 24th, 2012
8:44 am

Concerning Charlotte, I see the Democrat party is having part of their convention in Bank of America stadium. Nice to know they’re so cozy with the rich Wall Street banker types.

iggy

August 24th, 2012
8:47 am

Agreed. The “people” have spoken, let them eat cake.

iggy

August 24th, 2012
8:49 am

Finn, worry not about Romney. He is a great swimmer as long as the pool, lake, pond is full of dollar bills.

Is that what ya wanted to hear? ;)

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 24th, 2012
8:49 am

U.S. Incomes Fell More under Obama, Sentier Says
By Jeff Kearns

American incomes declined more in the three-year expansion that started in June 2009 than during the longest recession since the Great Depression, according an analysis of U.S. Census Bureau data by Sentier Research LLC.
———

Incomes normally increase during recoveries.

Not so during the failed Obozo regime.

Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy

August 24th, 2012
8:58 am

Disappearing middle class/Obama in charge for 4 years. Surprised?

I thought that was his plan; everyone suffering equally, with the few overlords in charge, doing real well.

md

August 24th, 2012
9:00 am

“The cap on contributing to Social Security is too low–the millionaires and billionaires pay the same amount as a person making $100,000 because that’s the cap.”

And there is a cap on the back end as well……all I see is more “let others pay for me”…….

Oblama

August 24th, 2012
9:34 am

What do you expect from Obama? He runs the government like a class action lawsuit lawyer. We need someone that knows economics – not Obama. Cut the deificit. Cut the size of big government. Cut Obama!

JDW

August 24th, 2012
9:38 am

@md…”And there is a cap on the back end as well”

Have to agree with you there. Raising the cap without raising the backend is not the way to go. Much better to adjust the ages or base contributions.

SBinF

August 24th, 2012
9:40 am

“Education is no guarantor of intelligence, wisdom, common sense or morality (a fact that can easily be proven).”

Perhaps this is true, but education is a pretty good predictor of all those things. Though I’m not sure what a sense of morality has to do with anything.

Oblama

August 24th, 2012
9:43 am

Recent polls shows Obama isn’t gaining traction. Look for an “Al Gore” like squeeker at the end – Obama will count every chad and every dead voter. Can’t trust Obama.

Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy

August 24th, 2012
9:57 am

In Chicago, 13 people shot in 30 minutes. Where are the satellite trucks and the live coverage. Chick-fil-A values are not Chicago values, says Rahm. Thank God!

MarkV

August 24th, 2012
10:17 am

md,

I have little tolerance for people who attack only for the purpose of attacking, like you.

I have written, @ 7:05 pm, the following; “The fact that some people without higher education can be very successful does not prove anything.” To which you wrote (@7:13 pm): “You are aware that there are many self-taught smart people around the world…..right?”

So either you are very deficient in reading, or you just do not understand what you read, or you simply must attack, whether you have a reason or not.

Then you wrote: “ Then ask yourself how in the world people managed to even get by before all these institutions of higher learning came into being……. They make the information easier to obtain, but that doesn’t equate to in-obtainable…….there is a difference. “

So what is the point of this inanity? That the mankind would have achieved all those complex projects, such as in areas which I have mentioned, anyway, without institution of higher learning in existence, it would have been just a little more difficult? That astronauts would have flown to the moon anyway, if the project was taken up by a bunch of self-taught people? Is there any serious thought behind this drivel?

@@

August 24th, 2012
10:28 am

Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American

August 24th, 2012
11:30 am

Romney now ahead on some polls.

Time for the Iranians to start watching the skies!

md

August 24th, 2012
3:18 pm

“I have little tolerance for people who attack only for the purpose of attacking, like you.”

Then you must have a hard time with yourself……and that is NOT what I responded to and you obviously didn’t even read your own words which I included in my last response.

And I don’t attack for the sake of attacking, I respond to statements that are not thought all the way through…….

md

August 24th, 2012
3:23 pm

“That the mankind would have achieved all those complex projects, such as in areas which I have mentioned, anyway, without institution of higher learning in existence, it would have been just a little more difficult? ”

In three short letters…..YES.

You seem to be operating off the construct that the really, really smart ones are all at the schools and the dumber ones have to go their to learn what they don’t know………in the real world, the really smart ones aren’t always teaching…….their are doing. And what do those type people get from listening to others that aren’t as smart as they are??

md

August 24th, 2012
3:24 pm

And yes, in my haste I butchered there, their, and they’re……