Barge gets it wrong by opposing charter-schools amendment
Few people claim to be a true conservative by complaining about preventing judicial activism and saving money. But state schools superintendent John Barge tried it last week.
On Tuesday, Barge proclaimed his opposition to a constitutional amendment that would ensure the state’s authority to create charter schools. Barge cited three key factors: his support for local control, his desire to limit government, and the $430 million he said the amendment would cost the state over five years.
But Barge left out a few things.
I won’t spend much time on local control. As I’ve explained before, no control is more local than that wielded by parents and students, who would be empowered by this amendment. To fret over whether the state or a local school board grants them that power is to focus on the wrong question.
Barge’s reference to limited government concerns the state charter schools commission which the amendment would re-establish, reversing a 2011 state Supreme Court ruling. Here again, Barge misses the point.
A commission might seem duplicative given that the court’s ruling did not block the state school board from creating charter schools. But as the majority opinion notes, the court did not address the school board’s authority because it wasn’t asked to do so. The ruling does make clear, though, that a majority of the justices believe the Constitution gives the power to create schools almost exclusively to local school boards. The exceptions are special state schools serving, for example, the deaf or blind.
Given the ruling’s sweeping language, the only thing preventing the court from striking down the state school board’s chartering authority is another lawsuit. And if that lawsuit succeeded, we would be right back where we are today — if, and only if, the Legislature could summon another two-thirds majority to put the amendment back on the ballot. That was no small feat this year.
After the court’s ruling, the state school board continued to award charters, and Gov. Nathan Deal and legislators added money for those schools to bring them closer to the funding traditional public schools get, thanks to their local tax bases. The money comes from a different pot than that used for traditional school funding. Now Barge argues that “extra” money for future charter schools, $430 million between now 2018 by his count, should be used to restore budget cuts.
Here’s what he didn’t say. First, the supplemental spending for charters this year, about $33 million, amounts to just 2.9 percent of this year’s education shortfall, less than $20 per student.
Second, despite the cuts, state education spending per pupil has increased by 10 percent since 2003. No windfall, but hardly brutal austerity.
Most damning of all, though, is that local systems stand to save money that far exceeds that “extra” spending by the state.
This year, that state supplement of $33 million covers almost 16,000 students at state-chartered schools. But the average local school system in Georgia spent almost $3,700 per student in 2011, the most recent year for which data are available.
At 16,000 students, that comes out to local savings of about $58.6 million. Not a bad trade. At that rate, local systems would save about $750 million over five years.
Parental control, legal certainty and more savings. I call that a conservative solution.
– Kyle Wingfield
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295 comments Add your comment
Michael H. Smith
August 18th, 2012
7:43 am
Oh and by the way brucie, anytime you are willing to let the ajc identify how many times you comment on its’ blogs and how much time you spend doing it, I feel very confident that your “day and night” accusation applies to you more than any one of us you accuse of doing it.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
August 18th, 2012
7:45 am
Don’t have a smartphone to take with you, Jamvet?
Ol' Timer
August 18th, 2012
7:47 am
Charter school superiority to regular public schools is an illusion. This is just another shell game conservatives try to play to extend their power; but as far as the end results, I’ve yet to be shown where Charter schools are superior and merit the money and attention they receive.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
August 18th, 2012
7:51 am
Thoughts: Parents do have choices already….private schools, homeschooling, moving, requesting a transfer to another public school with available space.
———————
By that line of thought, the government shouldn’t be paying for (or conscripting others to pay for) contraception, abortion, sterilization, family leave, ad nauseum.
It’s all about choices, right?
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
August 18th, 2012
7:54 am
Ol’ Timer, I don’t see how charter schools extend the power of anyone but parents.
Couldn’t your argument also be flipped around to say that opposition to charters is just another way for liberals to hold on to their power?
AU Liberal in ATL
August 18th, 2012
7:59 am
Once again the pot calls the kettle black. You’re not much of anything else, but at least you’re consistent.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
August 18th, 2012
8:08 am
That’s it, AU, don’t let MakeItWhite and Dave get away with it!
ragnar danneskjold
August 18th, 2012
8:08 am
A “state schools superintendent” opposes charter schools? What a shock, a typical bureaucrat refuses to lose one brick from his castle. The funny part is his claim to be a “conservative” – he uses the term the same way a Soviet aparatchik would have.
David
August 18th, 2012
8:36 am
PARENTS WILL NOT STAY INVOLVED. WE ALL KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO OUR EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM. DON’T WE?.
sheepdawg
August 18th, 2012
8:41 am
Barge for Governor in 2014!!! This man has morals and character to stand up to the elitiest hatemongers. Charter shcools are another GOP ploy to divide the classes.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
August 18th, 2012
9:10 am
“Charter shcools are another GOP ploy to divide the classes.”
—————–
Which class is excluded from charter schools? We’re going to need a link or some other proof of your statement; my guess is that it is based in ignorance. Prove me wrong.
CharterStarter, Too
August 18th, 2012
9:16 am
@ Poor Richard (and Yuzeyurbrane) –
“Charter schools are re-segregation.”
Then why do charter demographic mirror traditional public school demographics almost exactly? Please check the annual report for charter schools to verify this fact. Also, @ Yuze, you speak of rural charters. Let’s talk specifically….Pataula Charter Academy serves 5 districts. Those SCHOOL districts are almost 100% black, and yet, the districts themselves (according to census data – please verify for yourself) are about 50/50 white/minority. Patuala is about 25/75, which is more integrated than the district schools, and continues to grow its minority population as the school seeks to demonstrate to both its black and white families that ALL children can and should receive an excellent education. They are making gains in healing the chasm in those communities between black/white that has been perpetuated (despite a resegregation order for 30 years) by the districts. They SEEK to integrate.
“Somebody please show me all of the rules that charter schools do not have to follow.
Teachers that are uncertified? Unlimited class size? Different standards and graduation
requirements? Selective admission? Sounds like a publicly funded private school.”
Charters may waive MOST local and state rules. They may NOT waive health and safety, the state’s standard curriculum, accountability measures, or having highly qualified teachers. According to the Professional Standards Commission, certified is not the same as highly qualified. Charters (and indeed, school districts) may have some uncertified teaching staff, but they must be highly qualified, and HQ status is only good for 3 years before you have to obtain certification. So it’s a null point. I encourage you to pull the certified/HQ stats for your own school district to see if all teachers are certified and what % are HQ. Few are at 100%.
Charters may have different class sizes. In some cases, that number is higher, and sometimes lower. I encourage you to look up each school in your district and find out their teacher:student ratio. What you will find is that it differs across districts. The “class size” number is based on an average across a district. The and short of it for charters and districts is if students are achieving and staff is not overburdened, class size is not a factor.
It is against the law for charter schools to have entry requirements. They must admit (space allowing and following lottery) any child that enrolls who lives in the attendance zone, just like a traditional school. It is interesting to note, however, that traditional schools CAN have entry requirements. Consider magnet schools. That is oft held up as “choice.” But magnets can have entry requirements, and thus, every child is not eligible. Just a thought to ponder.
“And there is still no evidence that they outperform public schools.”
I beg to differ and encourage you to go look for the data yourself. I have provided public links. Before you generalize, at least check your facts.
“Parental control is great if parents are informed. Most are not, don’t even know their own kids.”
I don’t know how to even respond to this, as it is such an unquantified and unqualified over generalization. I ask you that if people in communities don’t “know,” then how can we have enough kids enrolled in charters to keep the schools open? And how come we have thousands of kids sitting on waiting lists?
Just trying to bring some facts (that you can go check yourself) and logic to the discussion. I do hope people vote with their brain and not with hearsay or unsubstantiated generalizations.
Chris Sanchez
August 18th, 2012
9:28 am
Unelected officials in charge of ANYTHING funded by taxpayer dollars is suspect and should be scrutinized. I will be voting “No” on this amendment. I would much rather see vouchers enacted to allow the money to follow the students. THAT is choice!
CharterStarter, Too
August 18th, 2012
9:40 am
@ Chris – two things:
1. The elected officials aren’t “in charge.” They simply appoint an objective body to approve high quality schools (that have been turned down from their districts) and oversee (that is, make sure the charters achieve academically and are being fiscally prudent). The parents and community members on the boards of these schools are “in charge.”
2. My main issue with vouchers is accountability, since that’s my main issue with districts there is no accountability. I believe strongly that every tax dollar should be earning a return on investment, and with education, that return on investment is with student achievement, graduation rates, and a qualified work force. Charters are the ONLY choice that has true and absolute accountability for those dollars.
Baffled!
August 18th, 2012
9:44 am
This is to MakeItWhiter. I pulled my child this year from a traditional public school and our neighborhood is a nice diverse neighborhood. The school she was attending is diverse as well, but not many brown children in her classes, maybe 15 out of 100 and then maybe about 20 Asian. I did not pull my child out because of the “black” (as you put it) children and other “undesirables”(as you put it)! I pulled her out because of 33 kids per class and I had to reteach her every night during our 3 hour homework sessions! I now have her in a Charter School, which I have to drive her everyday and pick her up every afternoon, since there is no money for transportation. I choose to do this. But, my whole point to you is there are more “black” (as you put it) kids in her class than in her traditional public school! The Principal is hispanic! It is a great school so far. I met her best friend in her class Tues night at a school skate party to raise money for the school and guess what, she was “black!” Oh and if you haven’t guessed, it I am white! I don’t teach hate in my home! I am truly offended that you can call this a race issue!
Anyone that applies can get in this school and if there is a wait list, you may be picked. We waited for a half a school year to be picked and my “black” neighbor got picked to have her kids in there before I got mine in there and she put them on the list after I did because I talked her into taking them there. So, I don’t think you can get by with this one! Look at the Charter Schools in Fulton County! People want a choice, this is America afterall! What is the difference in giving money to the new traditional public schools that pop up all the time!??!??! Also, the teachers are not paid as well at a Charter School as they are in Traditional Public schools, I know because I have a friend that teaches there.
MomToJack
August 18th, 2012
9:52 am
What is the incentive for a local school board to approve a Charter? none.
My understanding is that Charters in Georgia greatly serve minorities. Go to a Charter school event and observe for yourself.
@@
August 18th, 2012
9:54 am
OK, off to do some good in the community and help some friends on this wonderful Saturday
Sheesh!
I hope AmVet’s attitude improves before arrival… otherwise his efforts will go over like a big ol’ THUMP.
schnirt
middle of the road
August 18th, 2012
10:11 am
“Parents who want charter schools think charter schools will somehow shield their white children from mixing and mingling with blacks, hispanics and any other undesirables.”
No, parents who want charter schools think it will shield their kids from discipline problems, kids who don’t care about education, kids who never show up for school – if those happen to be kids of color, that is their problem. Parents don’t want their own kids dragged down into the gutter with the lower-quality students. The issue is not race.
Ethics Advisor
August 18th, 2012
10:21 am
All of us need to read and reread the comment from Mary Elizabeth, August 17th, 2012 at 7:42 pm. Yes it’s long and doesn’t give anyone a target to throw tomatoes at. She tells the truth. What are our priorities here?
1. To provide the best education possible for all our children. Education gets harder every year because of stereotyping by all involved, parents, teachers, administrators, school boards and our elected officials .
2. To provide your local school system with the support it needs; parental attendance at school meetings so you can find out firsthand what your school is doing and planning for the education of your children, monetary support by paying taxes and if needed special taxes approved by the voters with explicit terms in the tax law for the disbursement of the funds solely for funding classrooms and teachers only, one is not good without the other. Support your teachers, most of them are wonderful people who do a thankless job. If you are fortunate enough to have a good school board and school administrators, support them, if not vote them out and if the school administrators need to move on, elect new school board members who will support this action. DO NOT MAKE IT PERSONAL. Making it personal usually makes you lose control of the thoughts and actions that you desire and causes harm to you and who is now an adversary instead of a colleague.
3. Check your child’s homework and review their tests and other schoolwork after grading, this is where you find your first problems, whether it is your child not understanding or your teacher not presenting the work explicit enough for your child to understand or teacher incompetence. Contact the teacher and treat them with the respect they deserve and find out. If you enter the meeting with a hostile nature you have already lost any help you want for you and your child. No person with a sense of self-worth is going to listen to anyone who attacks without an organized thought about the meeting which is to HELP YOUR CHILD.
4. Concerning Charter Schools, they are an admirable idea whose time has not yet come. The point, as I understand it is to pick the finest students from all the local system schools with the money for the school coming from the remaining school system funds which reduces the money for all other schools in the system or district. As another writer says, ”it will reduce the schools funding as funding is based on the number of students.” I don’t know the real reason for those who embrace charters schools in their present plan and description; I do know that it is unequal in its result. It promotes elitism even though it is intended to produce the best in America. The only way I can support Charter Schools is if a lottery system is held with all students having a chance to attend not just those with a B average or higher.
Does this thought contradict the intent? Yes and No! All some children need if they seem unable to perform at a higher level is a chance to be in a group that will challenge them to work harder to be competitive. Yes, I know that this does not apply to all struggling students. Unless you have experienced the dynamics in a class room as a teacher, you really don’t know what you need to know about improving your school and its impact on your child. Maybe you should take a day off which is a real burden for most of us and spend the day in class with your child. Your child will thank you and a good teacher will, too! I echo my support for Superintendent Barge for his stand for all our children. For the politicians who shamelessly tell us that it is about education, hope you lose your next election unless you are willing to admit your wrong actions and change them. I have no real political affiliation. I am an independent who has voted largely Republican unless his or her opponent was better qualified. Thank you for your time.
Ray
August 18th, 2012
10:45 am
The voters spoke and their clearly against the Constitutional amendment. Kyle, is it really necessary to disparage Dr. Barge, too?
md
August 18th, 2012
10:54 am
Way off topic, but quite worthy of sharing. If anybody ever had any doubts about Iran’s intentions….:
““It would be the golden opportunity Iran has been dreaming of for 32 years,” he said, referring to the date of Iran’s 1979 Revolution that led to the current clerical state. He did not mention what an attack on Iran would mean for Hezbollah.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/hezbollah-chief-says-he-will-transform-lives-of-israelis-to-hell-lebanon-attacked/2012/08/17/ecc3c938-e881-11e1-9739-eef99c5fb285_story.html
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
August 18th, 2012
10:55 am
It just dawned on me that Amvet sounds just like al-Gore.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
August 18th, 2012
10:57 am
So I guess the next step in this process is for the Union Goons to smear feces on the wall of some charter school and stalk the principle.
md
August 18th, 2012
11:02 am
“The main answer is not simply ‘public’ charter schools; the primary answer is for Georgia’s Legislature to start funding traditional public education with more commitment in the future. ”
OK Mary……with a balanced budget requirement, where do you propose cutting to do your funding. Calling for more funding is the easy part……….are you an advocate for raising property taxes since they are the primary source of educational revenue??
CharterStarter, Too
August 18th, 2012
11:08 am
@ Ray – When did the voters speak?
Mary Elizabeth
August 18th, 2012
11:16 am
I have just posted the following on Maureen Downey’s blog (latest thread on charter schools) in response to a question posed to me by another poster. I want to repost that post here for any who may be interested in my thoughts regarding larger issues related to the growing number of for-profit charter schools vs. traditional public schools that have not been designed for profit. See below:
================================================
Other poster: “If the local community had garbage pick-up and you were forced to pay $40 per month, but you knew that a for-profit company would offer you better service and only charge $20 per month. . .”
—————————————————————-
First of all, education is not a public service like “garbage pick-up,” it is a field of public service that fosters the elevation of human beings – intellectually, emotionally, spiritually, and physically. Educators are not simply teaching facts such as that 3 x 3 = 9; they are inspiring our young to be the best that they can be in all of the areas mentioned. Do you want our young people to think that they are being used for profit, or that they are valued simply because they are human beings, equal to one another, to be cared for and nurtured to their full potential through public servants who desire only that their students reach their full potential? Is it not better to signal to students that service to one’s fellow human beings – without a profit incentive in doing so – is more to be valued in our society than value placed upon monetary gain, primarily?
That is one of the main reason I support public (not for-profit) education over education that makes a profit on its students. It is what we are teaching our young that is of value for them to emulate as we model for them, in the process of how we educate them, that matters to our nation’s future character and destiny. I have posed on this blog, previously, whether Americans will desire to perpetuate the “muscular” values of “winning, hierarchial dominance, competition, and power” over the more elevated values of “service, collaboration, intellectual and spiritual enlightenment, and egalitarianism” into America’s future. The first set of values create situations in which educational institutions (and other institutions) within our society believe that they must cheat in order to sustain their dominant power, and the latter values do not create that kind of America. They foster service to one’s country and to others as well as foster egalitarianism, the principle upon which this nation was built.
Furthermore, it appears to me that you have bought into the Republican negative propaganda about public school education. “Ludicrous amounts of money” have not been spent on public education in spite of Republican talking points. In fact, in Georgia alone, over 4 billion dollars have been cut from public education in the last decade. How can traditional public education improve as citizens’ desire, with such deep cuts happening, yearly? Even if some in Georgia’s Republican leadership state that educational funding has not been cut more than funding to other governmental agencies, I believe – and have observed – that our Republican leaders had cut funding to most of Georgia’s governmental agencies, including education, even before the Great Recession began. Their rigid ideological thinking, imo, has hurt many families and children in Georgia because of its severity. I believe that this regressive thinking has, also, kept Georgia behind economically and has kept Georgia from moving progressively in innovative thinking toward more growth possibilities instead of simply thinking toward more cuts to government. (Furthermore, state workers buy goods and services from private enterprise markets in Georgia so that when these state workers are laid off, all Georgians pay the consequences, not only in their reduced services, but because more of the state’s population, being out of work, are not able to buy from others in the private markets.) We are all interconnected whether we acknowledge this truth or not. How much better, spiritually and economically, it would be for Georgians to at least acknowledge that truth? One primary source of educational problems has been poverty. The state must, again, more fervently address this issue, aside from its educational impact.
Moreover, the national Republican ideological agenda has been to disparage traditional public schools so that more private educational corporations (based on profit) can move into the educational field/market. Studies, such as the Stanford Study, have shown that charter schools on the average do not fare better than traditional public schools, and many do not perform as well as do traditional public schools. Some are of poor quality. Some are not even monitored for quality. So, I do not buy into Republican propaganda regarding the overall poor quality of traditional public education. Many traditional public schools remain excellent schools.
However, traditional public education does need to change and improve, but it needs to do so, primarily, from within through fully understanding and implementing sound instructional principles such as (1) mastery learning, (2) continuous academic progress of each student according to his or her potential to master instructional concepts at point in time, (3) improving discipline, and (4) supporting of teachers in achieving those ends. Public charter schools might help to improve traditional public education, also, but they must work in collaboration with local school districts and traditional public schools, not in competition against them. Most importantly, their ultimate goal must be to improve the calibre of students under their care, not the financial gain of their proprietors.”
http://maryelizabethsings.wordpress.com/2012/08/16/a-monumental-choice-for-americas-future-character-and-destiny/
Steven
August 18th, 2012
11:29 am
@Mary Elizabeth! Thank you for making this discussion without vitriol. I agree with you, the Charter School Amendment is political and not educational in nature. The adopting of this Amendment reminds me of accusations the GOP had of the President of getting the Affordable Care Act to pass. They say his Administration shoved it down America’s throat. The proponents of the Charter School Amendment are doing the same thng. They are also berating the opponents because they don’t agree with them.
I am so eleated that Mr Barge changed his position on his support for the Charter amendment. I, Mr Wingfield, think and am thankful that he did get it right in spite of all the vitriol people are hurling his way.
Mary Elizabeth
August 18th, 2012
11:39 am
Steven, thank you for your comments and compliment.
I, too, salute Dr. Barge for his moral and courageous stand in behalf of all of Georgia’s students.
CharterStarter, Too
August 18th, 2012
11:39 am
@ Steven – if we (the charter sector) are “shoving it down people’s throats,” then how is it that WE are the ones stating that the voters of Georgia should have the final say in this? To the contrary, opponents in both the legislature and in general, tried very, very hard to shove status quo ideology down everyone’s throat and keep the voters from expressing the public wishes.
One of my issues with Dr. Barge is that he says (quite firmly) that his position has remained consistent. If he had come out and said that he had reviewed the matter thoroughly and after computing numbers, talking with his ENTIRE stakeholder group, etc., he had changed his position, I could be more understanding and receptive. It is clear from his original strong position in favor of HB 881 that his position has, indeed, changed. He is playing political word games with you so he does not look foolish. Please verify this for yourself. My other beef with him coming out on this is that he represents ALL public schools. Similar to the antics of PAGE making a stand on this issue, he has marginalized a portion of his own stakeholder group. Both should have remained silent on the matter and allowed the public to vote its wishes in November.
Please help me to understand your point of view considering these two points.
md
August 18th, 2012
11:41 am
” In fact, in Georgia alone, over 4 billion dollars have been cut from public education in the last decade. How can traditional public education improve as citizens’ desire, with such deep cuts happening, yearly?”
I’ll ask again Mary, what do you propose to cut instead? Everybody wants more money for everything, yet most don’t want to pay for it. Their usual solution is to raise the taxes on others…..
ron f.
August 18th, 2012
11:48 am
No, I think he got it right. Charter schools can become the vested interests of corporations and their ideology. What happened to democratic values that serve all people, not just the privileged?
CharterStarter, Too
August 18th, 2012
11:48 am
@ Mary (in follow up to md) –
What evidence do you have that higher funding levels yielded higher achievement before austerity cuts were put into place?
How do you explain high achievement of charter (and some district) schools earning less than 75% of what their traditional school counterparts are earning?
What, in your view, is an “adequate” amount (dollar figure) that schools/districts should be funded to provide a quality education that yields results….and…how did you come up with that estimate?
yuzeyurbrane
August 18th, 2012
11:52 am
CharterStarter @ 9:16–I have read many of your many blogs on this issue and admire your passion. Would you please post a link or give a cite to the annual report of charter schools that you mention as the basis for your denial that rural counties are using charters to re-segregate? I am open to persuasion on this point.
CharterStarter, Too
August 18th, 2012
11:56 am
@ Mary – You are very committed to accuracy, as you have demonstrated by always connecting people to information (which I appreciate). Did you, by chance, go through Dr. Barge’s “evidence” and verify its accuracy and if there are omissions or inconsistencies with state data?
Secondarily, if we held the district to the same bar as Dr. Barge has so narrowly defined in his “evidence” for charters, how many would hit it? The very clever positioning of this ASSUMES that districts have already hit this bar. How can you actually provide a comparison when you only provide one of the variables?
Shine
August 18th, 2012
11:58 am
If Republicans are for it it has to be a bad idea.
CharterStarter, Too
August 18th, 2012
12:04 pm
@ Shine – what do you say if 44% of Democrats are also for it?
CharterStarter, Too
August 18th, 2012
12:07 pm
@ Yuze – sorry, forgot one….here is a link to find census data: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/13000.html
Ethics Advisor
August 18th, 2012
12:12 pm
Mrs. Mary Elizabeth, your words are eloquent and represent what is best for all of us. There is no doubt in my mind you are or have been an educator and if not very well read on this topic. Thanks
Mary Elizabeth
August 18th, 2012
12:15 pm
md, 11:42 am
I believe that the best way to address your question to me is to quote from my post at 11:16 am, and then to refer you to the closing link, below:
“Even if some in Georgia’s Republican leadership state that educational funding has not been cut more than funding to other governmental agencies, I believe – and have observed – that our Republican leaders had cut funding to most of Georgia’s governmental agencies, including education, even before the Great Recession began. Their rigid ideological thinking, imo, has hurt many families and children in Georgia because of its severity. I believe that this regressive thinking has, also, kept Georgia behind economically and has kept Georgia from moving progressively in innovative thinking toward more growth possibilities instead of simply thinking toward more cuts to government.”
I would urge you to think not so much in terms of what else our legislators can “propose to cut,” but how they can, instead, increase Georgia’s revenues by emphasizing growth possibilities for the state.
Please read Alan Essig’s excellent article which he wrote for the AJC, and which was published online on August 16, 2012, on the “Atlanta Forward” blog – the thread entitled, “Spending Reductions – Budget Deficits.” He is the Executive Director for the Georgia Budget and Policy Institute. He explains this financial concept of economic growth as a priority over more budgetary cuts, at this time, much better than I. Link below:
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-forward/2012/08/16/spending-reductions-recurring-budget-deficits/
Mary Elizabeth
August 18th, 2012
12:22 pm
Ethics Advisor, 12:12 pm
Thank you for your kind words. I am a retired teacher, and I was an educational leader (not administrator) in schools during most of my 35 year career in education.
Buzzy
August 18th, 2012
12:26 pm
I think John Barge got it exactly right.
Rep. Lindsey and people like him want control of this “independent” commission. The Charter Schools are going to be used as a vehicle to funnel money to Republican owned businesses like online education providers. The Republicans will tell you they are for small government, and some of the rank and file are. However, the Republicans in our legislature are all about money. They want that government money.
Rep. Lindsey wants control and he wants to influence the money. He doesn’t care about kids or education. I am glad that John Barge stood up for all the people of Georgia. We need more like him.
retiredds
August 18th, 2012
12:32 pm
If the GA legislature drew up this amendment then it is a bad deal for Georgians. I do not trust the GA legislature to anything that is in the best interest of the people and students of this state.
md
August 18th, 2012
12:32 pm
OK Mary……so you propose taxes and spending to cure our woes from spending too much. You have some nice flower rhetoric that really looks good on paper, but your real life applications seem to be a bit skewered.
If growing the economy and raising those much needed revenues were so easy to do, I doubt much of the planet would be on the verge of heading back into recession.
Best I can tell, you are proposing to just keep spending as long as there are no cuts to education. That seems to be a very unrealistic approach to the real world and the economics we are facing…..
Mary Elizabeth
August 18th, 2012
12:42 pm
md, 12:32
I regret that you misinterpret my words. Your thinking regarding my vision, financial and educational, is wrong. I refer you, again, to Alan Essig’s article. Good day.
gramma
August 18th, 2012
12:47 pm
I was educated in the generation of overcrowded classrooms, limited school funding, and using public transportaton to get to class. I turned out just fine. The problem that I have with today’s schools is that there is no dicipline available in the classroom. If the teachers and principals were not so afraid of lawsuits, then the troublemakers would be dealt with quickly and effectively.
The one property that Charter Schools have at their disposal is the ability to discipline and reject any child who continues to break rules. This gives the parents of said children more of an impetus to make sure that the child is aware of this prospect so that rules are obeyed. County schools do not have this authority and must accept all the children within the stated school area.
If we could give the County Schools the ability to discipline our children – not spanking or any other physically hurtful method – then our schools might be able to achieve what the Charter Schools have managed to do.
BTW – the Charter School that my grandchildren attend has a very diverse population…quite representative of the county where they live. In fact, the school they attend is MORE diverse than the county school to which they are assigned.
md
August 18th, 2012
12:54 pm
No Mary, I read he article…..he calls for tax increases. So, here’s the problem, there are numerous cities/states/nations that have tried that method with even worse results.
Japan…..tried stimulus spending for 2 decades and now have a 200% debt to gdp ratio….
Greece…..need I say more.
CA…..16 billion in the red using this guys methods……
It doesn’t work Mary……one can’t take more money out of the pockets of consumers in the form of taxes and then expect them to spend more…….
td
August 18th, 2012
1:14 pm
CharterStarter, Too
August 18th, 2012
11:39 am
Your beef is made up and bogus. Dr. Barge never said he was in favor of this Constitutional Amendment. He has always said and continues to say that he is in favor of Charter schools. The difference that he is opposed to a unelected, appointed, (I am summing) by the legislature, commission to make the choices as to who and how a Charter school is established and to oversee said commission.
Now can you answer the question I have posed several times on this blog? How is it a Conservative or Tea party value to allow a third bureaucracy to be set up of unelected members to establish Charter schools?
CharterStarter, Too
August 18th, 2012
1:16 pm
@ Gramma – Charters have to follow the same due process for dismissal of any public school. The difference is really more qualitative. Charter generally have very strict disciplinary expectations to ensure a safe and productive learning environment, and they don’t play around. Children are expected to behave, and the discipline codes are strictly enforced. It helps that there is a shared culture of expectation cultivated in the charter schools and they communicate expectations very clearly to parents. Clarity of expectations and consistent reinforcement go a long way. Charters have the same risks for parents suing that districts have, but they realize that with proper documentation, training, and oversight over processes, the risk is minimal.
We get the “complaint” that charters just send misbehaving kids back to the district. Charters can expel, based on their discipline policy and due process. The districts then can choose to: 1) uphold the decision and the child goes into an alternative school (which the district gets funded for) or 2) take the child back through tribunal, which has generally ended up with allowing the kid to go back into the regular school setting without consequences. In other words, the districts perpetuate the problem by having and reinforcing lower behavior expectations of kids.
Teachers in district schools, in my humble opinion, struggle to get the support they need from administration and county office. I think this is one of the biggest frustrations of public school educators in general. And it’s normally not the kids fighting, bringing drugs, or weapons to school that drive them crazy and impact learning the most. “Frequent flyers” that continually disrupt are not addressed in any meaningful way, and so everybody in the classroom suffers by the distractions and teachers, again, are demoralized with the lack of support.
Districts USED to uphold their own discipline codes and didn’t tolerate nonsense, but now many of the schools (particularly middle and high schools) just handle discipline issues in the office with a triage approach, and only the most egregious are dealt with meaningfully. Parents and teachers should demand that discipline be addressed. WIth the level of issue with have with discipline, I’d not be surprised if parents of behaving kids start filing suit for the disruptions impacting their child’s right to a quality education.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
August 18th, 2012
1:20 pm
Awesome article -
This is the way the welfare-state altruist “cares.” He cares about you in the impersonal way he cares about a famine in Africa. It’s just another excuse to raise some money and send it off to be spent on a program that may or may not work (foreign aid is another great example of money spent with very little regard for results) and to skim off a comfortable salary made all the more comfortable by a smug sense of moral superiority.
If you want to know which system is actually cruel, think about this from the perspective of the person who looks to the elites in Washington, to Mr. Chait and his neighbors, to solve his problems. This is the cost of dependency: sitting around waiting for a bunch of millionaires and comfortable upper-middle-class types to feel sorry for you and enact a government program-rather than taking your fate into your own hands.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2012/08/16/the_washington_dc_bubble_115129.html
CharterStarter, Too
August 18th, 2012
1:21 pm
@ td – Please go read Mr. Barge’s survey where he shows STRONG support for HB 881 (which established a Commission AND DEDUCTED money from districts).
It’s not a Conservative, Tea Party or a Democrat party value….establishment of this Commission represents everyone’s collective Democratic ideas that started with our fore fathers. They set up a checks and balances in government for a reason, sir. And this is why it has bi-partisan support.