The Obama pitch: Don’t ask us for a plan, just reject the GOP’s plan
With Mitt Romney’s selection of Paul Ryan as his running mate, the entire presidential campaign will — or should — boil down to this exchange between Ryan and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner during a House hearing on President Obama’s fiscal 2013 budget back in February (text of transcript courtesy of Real Clear Politics):
Ryan: Here’s the point. Leaders are supposed to fix problems. We have a $99.4 trillion unfunded liability. Our government is making promises to Americans that it has no way of accounting for them. And so you’re saying yeah, we’re stabilizing it but we’re not fixing it in the long run. That means we’re just going to keep lying to people. We’re going to keep all these empty promises going.
And so what we’re saying is, in order to avert a debt crisis — you’re the Treasury Secretary — if we can’t make good on our bonds in the future, who is going to invest in our country? We do not want to have a debt crisis. And so it comes down to confidence and trajectory. Do we have confidence that we’re getting our fiscal situation under control, that we’re preventing the debt from getting at these catastrophic levels?
If we go back to the preceding chart, number 13, you’re showing that you have no plan to get this debt under control. You’re saying we’ll stabilize it but then it’s just going to shoot back up. So my argument is, that’s Europe. That is bringing us toward a European debt crisis because we’re showing the world, the credit market’s future seniors — people who are organizing their lives around the promises that are being made to them today — that we don’t have a plan to make good on this.
Geithner: Mr. Chairman, as I said, maybe we’re not disagreeing in a sense. I made it absolutely clear that what our budget does is get our deficit down to a sustainable path over the budget window.
Ryan: And then they take back off.
Geithner: Why do they take off again? Why do they do that?
Ryan: Because we have 10,000 people retiring everyday and health-care costs going up.
Geithner: That’s right. We have millions of Americans retiring everyday, and that will drive substantial further rise in the growth of health-care costs. We’re not coming before you to say we have a definitive solution to our long-term problem. What we do know is we don’t like yours.
Read that last part again: “We’re not coming before you to day we have a definitive solution to our long-term problem. What we do know is we don’t like yours.”
In other words, we prefer Nero-esque fiddling to your plan.
In other words, we’d rather stick to promises that can’t be kept than level with the American people and treat them like adults.
When Geithner admits the Obama administration has no “definitive solution,” what he really means is the Obama administration has no solution, no proposal, no plan, at least nothing it wants to talk about publicly, for keeping our fiscal condition from spiraling completely out of control. That’s no exaggeration: Check out the chart to which Ryan referred, which comes from the Obama administration’s own FY13 budget:
Our future under Barack Obama
See, the most Barack Obama is willing to do — in his fourth, count ‘em, fourth budget proposal — is to “stabilize” our debt at the highest level, as a share of the economy, since the end of World War II. In fact, according to his budget, that’s the most Americans can expect for the two presidential terms that would follow his hypothetical second term.
After that, he ostensibly would be willing to let us zoom into the abyss on auto-pilot than propose any sort of meaningful reform to the programs that put us on this path. That’s chiefly Medicare — although, as an Associated Press report notes, we face a shortfall of Social Security funding totaling $134 trillion during the next 75 years, i.e. the period of time that covers the retirement of “just about everyone working today.” To shore that up, AP reports, the federal government would need to “invest $8.6 trillion today, and have it pay returns of 2.9 percent above inflation for the next 75 years, to produce enough money to cover the shortfall.”
We will soon find out if the Obama team has prepared substantive proposals for these issues or was simply betting/hoping Romney wouldn’t have the guts to thrust Ryan — and thus the entitlements question — into this campaign.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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489 comments Add your comment
resno2
August 13th, 2012
1:37 pm
“Biden will eat Ryan for lunch”??
Please provide one intelligent thing that Biden has done or said while in office.
Some people are stupid
August 13th, 2012
1:40 pm
Kyle-
Did he already release a budget for the upcoming year. In essence, that’s what Paul Ryan did, release his budget, so isn’t the President’s plan already out there.
Trying to find a neutral source, but it seems as if the basic framwork was 2.4 trillion in cuts and 800 billiion in revenue(loopholes closing, working on finding a link that most owuldn’t immediately say, look at the source)
But the initial thought is I’m paying into a system so I can use it later. Isn’t that why it is called Insurance. That’s like if I pay my premium to Geico and then when I get ready to use it, my coverage has changed and now it is covering less.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
August 13th, 2012
1:40 pm
Since the Medicare plan is so great, why cut it off at 55 or younger get vouchers
Senior vote = Noooooo touchy. Don’t want to go biting that hand!
cc
August 13th, 2012
1:41 pm
Moon Mullins:
“But, in reality, the country is looking for a government that works and compromises, not one that glories in gridlock to the detriment of the county. When will statesmen step up to the plate and tell the obstructionists to get with the program?”
There can be no “compromise” now. We are engaged in a battle with clearly defined objectives on both sides. The dimocrats are hell-bent on changing America into a communist economic state. The term “compromise” to dimocrats now means that Republicans allow them to have their way with no “give” from the dimocrat side.
JDW
August 13th, 2012
1:42 pm
@Kyle…”You either make changes now to maintain a viable program in the future, or you let it run into the ground and really “end” it, which seems to be the Obama plan.”
No one disputes that both Medicare and Social Security will have to be adjusted. When the Republicans are willing to come to the table to solve problems rather than preach tax cuts for the wealthy and tossing Grandma out on her a$$ (after XX years of paying in) or one side gets control of the Senate, House and Presidency then we will get some movement.
For now we know that the Ryan approach of “shooting both in the head” is not preferred and I believe will cost them votes
and
The Obama approach of increasing tax collections and limiting waste via the ACA is buying us time until an opportunity for another fix arises
Some people are stupid
August 13th, 2012
1:47 pm
From a purely accounting standpoint, why would I pay into a system to receive a voucher, that isn;t adjusted for healthcare inflation( which is higher than regular inflation). Assuming my primary source of income is SSI, wouldn’t I be paying more for healthcare in the future than I would under the current system. Why would I support that.
cc
August 13th, 2012
1:48 pm
JDW:
“The Obama approach of increasing tax collections and limiting waste via the ACA is buying us time until an opportunity for another fix arises”
Yeah, let’s just kick that little ol’ can down the road . . .
MarkV
August 13th, 2012
1:53 pm
Kyle is again up to his usual tricks – substituting his words for those that have been actually spoken.
Geithner did NOT say “we prefer Nero-esque fiddling to your plan.”
Geithner did NOT say “we’d rather stick to promises that can’t be kept than level with the American people and treat them like adults.”
Geithner did say “We’re not coming before you to day we have a definitive solution to our long-term problem. What we do know is we don’t like yours.”
End of story.
The Artful Dodger (Myth Robme) Is A Ryan Shame
August 13th, 2012
1:53 pm
@cc
August 13th, 2012
1:30 pm
Kyle:
This is a really good piece of writing and definitely on point!
It saddens me to see from remarks posted by liberals that obama’s class warfare ploy works so well on them. Of course, controlling a liberal brain is relatively easy since there’s so very little of it.
Keep up the great writing!
______________________________________________________________
WHAT CLASS ARE YOU?
1%?
Middle Class?
Poor?
From your comment I CAN GUESS.
If you are in the middle or poor class there cannot be a fair fight AGAINST
the 1%.
The 1% are trying to pay less or no taxes.
The middle class is trying to stay afloat.
And the poor is living on a wing and a prayer.
WAR FAIR?
HOW FAIR IS THIS?
Kyle Wingfield
August 13th, 2012
1:54 pm
Some people @ 1:40: Yes, he released a budget. The chart in the OP, which shows debt skyrocketing in the future, comes from that budget. It got zero votes. So, again: What is Obama’s real plan? Or is that the best he can do?
And, sorry, but you’re wrong about how the senior entitlements work. I am paying now for my grandparents’ SS and Medicare. One day, I hope, my children and grandchildren will pay for mine. If the baby boomers had spent all these years putting away money in a SS “account” for their own use one day, we wouldn’t be worried about the relatively small size of the generations coming behind them, would we?
Don't Tread
August 13th, 2012
1:54 pm
“Liberals understand you have do maintenance as you go”
Anybody notice the card in L5P (liberal land) that have bumper stickers plastered everywhere, busted windows, badly oxidized paint/rust, riding on a bicycle spare, muffler dragging the ground, and will barely start? That kind of maintenance?
Liberals have no clue regarding maintenance, especially of the automotive (or financial) kind. All the Democrats want is more money from the productive to give their cronies and buy votes for themselves from the moochers. (I guess that could be considered “maintenance” if you look at that froma liberal perspective.)
The Artful Dodger (Myth Robme) Is A Ryan Shame
August 13th, 2012
1:55 pm
@MarkV
August 13th, 2012
1:53 pm
Kyle is again up to his usual tricks – substituting his words for those that have been actually spoken.
________________________________________________
Somebody’s pants are on FIRE!
Kyle Wingfield
August 13th, 2012
1:58 pm
JDW: No, when the likes of you are ready to acknowledge what each side is proposing — and since the Ryan plan doesn’t apply to people over age 55, nothing is happening to Grandma — then we may get some movement.
I have to hand it to you, though: The line about the ACA contributing to Medicare’s sustainability is pure comedy gold. Here’s what Medicare’s chief actuary actually thinks about it.
Kyle Wingfield
August 13th, 2012
2:00 pm
Um, MarkV? That’s why I said “in other words,” and didn’t put what followed in quotes. To make clear that’s what Geithner meant, no what he actually said.
But I’m happy to say your faux outrage is up to your usual standards.
Some people are stupid
August 13th, 2012
2:01 pm
Kyle-
Isn’t that the same as insurance? I haven’t been in a car accident but I’m paying for claims for people who have. I’m basically paying in case I need it, just like Medicare(both are being forced on me by laws but that’s not the point).
And if my grandparents are deceased, then who ’s medicare am I paying for in your scenario. Medicare assumes(key word) that I pay in what I get out, which was the way it was originally designed to work. But iwht advances in technology and medicine, life expectancy went up and was never adjusted for( same with SSI).
So he presented a planned, that didn’t pass, so he is suppose to go back and do another plan. Well shouldn’t the same be said for Paul Ryan’s plan that didn’t pass the senate either. Or does it just work for the President??
Obama is over
August 13th, 2012
2:04 pm
The best part about Ryan becoming part of the ticket is that the Obama camp will be forced to address substantive issues in a meaningful way. They can no longer just focus on the trivial. The Ryan budget, for better or worse, was passed by Congress in March. The Obama budget proposal has been submitted three times and has yet to pass. The last time it was considered, the Obama plan received 0 votes. With Ryan in the mix, Obama will have to defend his proposals. Sunday on “Meet The Press”, Rachel Maddow was embarrassed by Rich Lowry when asked if she supported the $700 B Medicare cut included in Obamacare. She could not answer, but tried valiently to change the conversation. With Ryan on the team, there will be many more moments like this. The flaw in the Obama agenda is that he consistently uses short term incremental solutions for long term structural problems. The problem is not whether the wealthy are paying their “fair” share, it is Obama’s ever increasing spending without any concrete explanation on how to pay for it. Responsible adults recognize the need for entitlement reform, tax reform (similar to 1986), and an overhaul of Government spending practices. Ignoring the future solvency of our entitlement programs not only jeopardizes the quality of life for our seniors, but sacrifices the future of our children by adding insurmountable debt. Getalife and Jamvet will continue to make 1000’s of daily comments on the various AJC blogs, but will not add an original insight or thought on any matter of substance. Hopefully, Ryan’s addition will elevate the conversation to address the long term systematic problems facing our country.
SlickRick
August 13th, 2012
2:04 pm
Hey, Kyle, have you started working on your op-blog for the day following the election? You know, the one where you lament all the lies, distortions and demagoguery by the Dems that enabled them to not only win the Presidency (again), but also to increase their lead in the Senate and retake the house?
Might be a good time to start writing it now. That way you can take some much needed vaca around the time of the election. Just a thought. No sense in hoping against hope and change!!!
Kyle Wingfield
August 13th, 2012
2:07 pm
Some people: That’s how it’s been described over the years, usually by charlatans, but that’s not how it works. Workers have always paid for people already retired. The problem is that the ratio of workers to retirees keeps getting smaller and smaller. (And “grandparents” is a generic reference to your elders.)
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
August 13th, 2012
2:08 pm
The Obama approach of increasing tax collections and limiting waste via the ACA is buying us time until an opportunity for another fix arises.
JDW
You my friend are the proud winner of the 2012 Nobel Prize for Spin. To actually think Obama has an approach to this mess, is beyond belief, except to the Koolaid crowd.
MarkV
August 13th, 2012
2:09 pm
Kyle Wingfield@ 2:00 pm
No, Kyle, you cannot extricate yourself this way. When people say “in other words,” it means that they use different words to express the same meaning. What you wrote does not have the same meaning as what Geithner said. How do you know that it was what Geithner meant ?
HR Pufnstuf
August 13th, 2012
2:09 pm
I’m 48, have been working since I was 18 and have paid into SS/Medicare all my life. And Ryan is telling me I’m going to get a goddamn voucher? I’m all for fiscal responsibility, but the republicans don’t care if they slash and burn the budget. Why? Because they are rich and none of that will affect them. AND they won’t have to pitch in a dime to boot!
Some people are stupid
August 13th, 2012
2:11 pm
The Ryan budget, for better or worse, was passed by Congress in March
Actually it passed the House, didn’t pass the Senate.
And the MEdicare Cuts, People, it wasn’t Plan B Medicare, it was MEdicare Advantage, the supplemental Medicare Program.
And last time I checked, Obama can’t spend a dime without the House approving it, so any spending done this year is…..
And didn’t tax reform in 86 grow the deficit?
MarkV
August 13th, 2012
2:14 pm
Kyle Wingfield@ 2:00 pm
As for the “usual standards,” this misrepresentation of words of people on the other side is indeed frequent in your articles. Like claiming that Obama told Medvedev that he would cave in after the election, substituting “caving in” for “having flexibility.”
Logical Song
August 13th, 2012
2:16 pm
Slick Rick
While I stated that I think Obama will win a tight election. There will be no taking of the House. Not even close.
Senate still up in the air with Republicans having more than a fighter’s chance of taking it.
Some people are stupid
August 13th, 2012
2:19 pm
Kyle-
Then that goes to my original question of why should the cutoff age be 55. If they didn’t pay into the system, they have no specific standing in the program(using the whole they are paid for by future generation argument)
And if that’s the case, then it isn’t an insurance program, it is as Rick Perry would describe a pyramid scheme.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
August 13th, 2012
2:20 pm
The Top Ten Differences Between White and Non-White Terrorists
http://www.alternet.org/media/top-ten-differences-between-white-and-non-white-terrorists
JDW
August 13th, 2012
2:20 pm
@Kyle….”No, when the likes of you are ready to acknowledge what each side is proposing — and since the Ryan plan doesn’t apply to people over age 55, nothing is happening to Grandma — then we may get some movement.”
Grandma could well be 54 or 53 or 52…you don’t change the rules on someone that has been planning for 20 to 30+ years. You want to talk privatizing start with people in their 20’s then you MIGHT get an audience. Other than that the program will be like any other insurance program as costs rise so does the price…in this case the variables are taxes, co pays, fees and eligibility age.
This whole business is part and parcel of the New Republican way…tax cuts for the “job creators” (BTW how may jobs will cutting Romney’s taxes produce
) and under the bus with everyone else.
As for this bit…”I have to hand it to you, though: The line about the ACA contributing to Medicare’s sustainability is pure comedy gold. Here’s what Medicare’s chief actuary actually thinks about it.”
From your very own source…”while the Affordable Care Act makes important changes to the Medicare program and substantially improves its financial outlook, there is a strong likelihood that certain of these changes will not be viable in the long range.”
Which is precisely why I stated the changes are…”buying us time until an opportunity for another fix arises”
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
August 13th, 2012
2:21 pm
10. There is nothing you can do about white terrorists. Gun control won’t stop them. No policy you could make, no government program, could possibly have an impact on them. But hundreds of billions of dollars must be spent on police and on the Department of Defense, and on TSA, which must virtually strip search 60 million people a year, to deal with other terrorists.
too true
JDW
August 13th, 2012
2:23 pm
@Rafe…”To actually think Obama has an approach to this mess, is beyond belief, except to the Koolaid crowd.”
Koolaid brand differ…I prefer mine spiced with a fair economic enviroment for all…you on the other hand seem to prefer Koolaid soured with the thought the Romney’s of the world need a tax break.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
August 13th, 2012
2:28 pm
<Dude already needs a vacation??
The Romney campaign announced that it was canceling a Monday campaign stop in Orlando because the candidate was too exhausted after nearly 48 hours of pushing Paul Ryan as his VP pick, the Orlando Sentinel reported, citing a campaign official.
mwuahahahahaha
Just saying..
August 13th, 2012
2:34 pm
Just a sec, Kyle: Until the Ryan pick, wasn’t Romney’s campaign pretty much “Don’t ask me all the details, we just need to get Hussein out”?
JDW
August 13th, 2012
2:35 pm
@Kyle..are you having posting issues…my last comment did not post
SlickRick
August 13th, 2012
2:41 pm
JDW – more likely, Kyle’s selective censorship celebration at work.
Rockerbabe
August 13th, 2012
2:42 pm
Ryan = TWERP! (the worst ever republican pick). Seniors, working people, women of childbearing age, be very afraid!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
August 13th, 2012
2:43 pm
“Ryan Skips Florida.” The story suggested that Mitt Romney’s running mate would be put at a safe, electric-fence distance from senior citizens, lest he give them night terrors about his Medicare plans.
We got no stones…
We got no stones…
Two guys, Zero stones…
Just saying..
August 13th, 2012
2:43 pm
“…candidate was too exhausted…”
Florida seniors gathering in wait had nothing to do with it…
SlickRick
August 13th, 2012
2:47 pm
After the whole Palinator fisaco, ya’d think the Regressives would’ve wised up and selected a non-reactionary. Jeez, first the cynicism with a pretty little lady more ideologically predisposed to the Middle Ages. And now the cynicism with a blue-eyed little white boy more ideologically predisposed to the Middle Ages. I, for one, am looking forward to the 2016 race already, when it is hoped that the Regressives will nominate a woman, or a non-white man, or an Hispanic, but in any event, someone who at least has entered the nineteenth century, ideologically speaking.
Jack
August 13th, 2012
2:51 pm
Be careful what you “sighted”. Mr. Wingfield.
Jack
August 13th, 2012
2:59 pm
Vote for Obama and Biden. That’ll make sure those who contribute absolutely nothing to the system will continue to get a free ride.
Common Sense
August 13th, 2012
3:00 pm
“I’m 48, have been working since I was 18 and have paid into SS/Medicare all my life. And Ryan is telling me I’m going to get a goddamn voucher? I’m all for fiscal responsibility, but the republicans don’t care if they slash and burn the budget. Why? Because they are rich and none of that will affect them. AND they won’t have to pitch in a dime to boot!”
You are right. You have paid in all your life. But you have not paid in nearly enough to cover what your projected expenses are going to be. And since this money was not really invested, it is worth less today than what you actually paid in.
I am 50. I am in the same boat. You are right to be angry. But that will not solve the issue. The issue is whether you want to get 60% of something down the road, or 100% of nothing?
I’d also suggest that the pension plans of all the politicians from Congress have their pensions and benefits revoked and that money be placed into the general fund. They failed ALL OF US. There should be a tangible price for that failure.
Kyle Wingfield
August 13th, 2012
3:01 pm
Some people @ 2:19: And that goes back to my original answer, which is that the cutoff is 55 because people older than that have lived their whole lives with this as the deal and don’t have time to make other arrangements. So, the deal is not being taken away from them, because, contrary to what Obama and the Democrats want you to believe, this is not about pushing Granny over the cliff.
The Artful Dodger (Myth Robme) Is A Ryan Shame
August 13th, 2012
3:02 pm
Romney spokesman: Ryan skipping Florida has nothing to do with his plan to end Medicare
HE CAN RUN…..BUT HE CANNOT HIDE.
Myth Robme and Boy Wonder Ryan are going to have to FACE THE MUSIC.
SENIORS MAYBE OLD BUT THEY ARE NOT STUPID.
Common Sense
August 13th, 2012
3:03 pm
Kyle,
You know the argument can be made that it was Granny’s generation that voted themselves all these entitlements without paying for them in the first place.
I hate to say it, but Granny’s generation certainly bears more responsibility for the mess we have than my generation.
Just saying..
August 13th, 2012
3:03 pm
Kyle:
Would be educational to see your Plan A and Plan B paths to 270. Keeping (sorta) his existing Florida schedule gets props, but it seems now there’s little realistic hope of a GOP 270 plan that includes Florida.
Kyle Wingfield
August 13th, 2012
3:03 pm
And that source goes on to say, JDW:
“Even more important, however, is that Medicare’s own fiscal overseer doesn’t think that the projections are likely to prove accurate. In the actuary’s note at the end of the report, Richard Foster, the program’s chief actuary, warns that ‘the financial projections shown in this report for Medicare do not represent a reasonable expectation for actual program operations in either the short range (as a result of the unsustainable reductions in physician payment rates) or the long range (because of the strong likelihood that the statutory reductions in price updates for most categories of Medicare provider services will not be viable).’ ”
So, it’s not much of a bridge.
Obama is over
August 13th, 2012
3:04 pm
@Stupid are some people @2:11
The fact that the Ryan budget was past by the house is my point exactly. Any piece of Legislation passed by Congress or the Senate results in compromise being added to the debate. A PROPOSAL on the other hand has not had compromise added to the mix because it has not been approvred.
Obama had complete control of the house and the Senate for the first two years in office. His record shows how that worked out.
The 1986 tax reform created the longest running bull market in American history.
Obama has racked up $TRILLION deficits every year in office with no long term plan to slow down spending.
And finally, I take it you support a $700 Billion cut to Medicare.
getalife
August 13th, 2012
3:05 pm
“2012 Projected Deficit: $1.33 trillion, 8.5 percent of GDP; 2013 Projected Deficit: $901 billion, 5.5 percent of GDP; 2018 Projected Deficit: $575 billion, 2.7 percent of GDP; 2022 Projected Deficit: $704 billion, 2.8 percent of GDP.”
I don’t trust the ones that took a balanced budget and a surplus and blew it up with gop rubber stamp congress spending.
I trust the Clinton team to balance our budget again.
Don’t let the gop blow it again.
Kyle Wingfield
August 13th, 2012
3:05 pm
JDW: Our language filters keep out any comments with the word “spice.” Includes within it a word that is banned (although I’ve never once seen anyone try to use it) and our 19th-century blogging software isn’t capable of distinguishing between the two.
The Artful Dodger (Myth Robme) Is A Ryan Shame
August 13th, 2012
3:06 pm
@Kyle Wingfield
August 13th, 2012
3:01 pm
Some people @ 2:19: And that goes back to my original answer, which is that the cutoff is 55 because people older than that have lived their whole lives with this as the deal and don’t have time to make other arrangements. So, the deal is not being taken away from them, because, contrary to what Obama and the Democrats want you to believe, this is not about pushing Granny over the cliff.
_____________________________________________________________
This is about…….
NOT PUSHING ANYONE OVER THE CLIFF.
Why would anyone AGREE to do THAT?
Kyle Wingfield
August 13th, 2012
3:06 pm
Finn: Ryan is scheduled to be in Florida this weekend…