2012 Tuesday: Voter fraud, not suppression, is real
It’s an election year, so we’re being treated to the usual back-and-forth about whether requiring voters to show a photo ID at the polls is an attempt to suppress voting or just voter fraud.
U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder — never hesitant to politicize an issue — last month likened voter ID laws to Jim Crow-era poll taxes that suppress minority voting. Of course, neither he nor any plaintiff in a court challenge to a voter ID laws has produced any evidence that suppression has taken place. I’ve always thought it is insulting to minorities to suggest they are incapable, or unmotivated, or whatever, when it comes to obtaining a free, state-issued photo ID.
On the contrary: Georgia Secretary of State Brian Kemp noted in a recent interview that since the General Assembly passed our voter ID law in 2006, the number of minority voters has soared — between both the 2004 and 2008 presidential elections, and the 2006 and 2010 gubernatorial elections. That’s strong evidence against the idea that the law is suppressing voting by minorities. (H/t: Georgia Tipsheet)
Critics of voter ID requirements argue that voter fraud is non-existent, and that champions of these laws are trying to solve a non-problem. A new book by two leading supporters of voter ID laws aims to take away that argument, too.
In “Who’s Counting?”, conservative journalist John Fund and former Civil Rights Commissioner (and one-time Georgia resident) Hans von Spakovsky argue that a current U.S. senator may be in office thanks to voter fraud. Byron York explains in a Washington Examiner column about the book:
In the ‘08 campaign, Republican Sen. Norm Coleman was running for re-election against Democrat Al Franken. It was impossibly close; on the morning after the election, after 2.9 million people had voted, Coleman led Franken by 725 votes.
Franken and his Democratic allies dispatched an army of lawyers to challenge the results. After the first canvass, Coleman’s lead was down to 206 votes. That was followed by months of wrangling and litigation. In the end, Franken was declared the winner by 312 votes. He was sworn into office in July 2009, eight months after the election.
During the controversy a conservative group called Minnesota Majority began to look into claims of voter fraud. Comparing criminal records with voting rolls, the group identified 1,099 felons — all ineligible to vote — who had voted in the Franken-Coleman race.
Minnesota Majority took the information to prosecutors across the state, many of whom showed no interest in pursuing it. But Minnesota law requires authorities to investigate such leads. And so far, Fund and von Spakovsky report, 177 people have been convicted — not just accused, but convicted — of voting fraudulently in the Senate race. Another 66 are awaiting trial. “The numbers aren’t greater,” the authors say, “because the standard for convicting someone of voter fraud in Minnesota is that they must have been both ineligible, and ‘knowingly’ voted unlawfully.” The accused can get off by claiming not to have known they did anything wrong.
York adds: “With 1,099 examples identified by Minnesota Majority, and with evidence suggesting that felons, when they do vote, strongly favor Democrats, it doesn’t require a leap to suggest there might one day be proof that Al Franken was elected on the strength of voter fraud.”
At the very least, those 1,099 examples — and 177 convictions, so far — represent far more evidence in favor of voter ID laws than opponents have ever mustered for their case.
– By Kyle Wingfield
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
472 comments Add your comment
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
August 7th, 2012
12:21 pm
If you will stand on the corner and sell crack, pot or Meth then for you to walk into a polling place and cast a vote for a person you do not probably even know for $20 or $50 is clearly not so crazy.
Ok, here is a crime that is DIRECTLY traceable to the person who commited it! All they have to do is reasearch it and POOF! you have your criminal!!!!!!!!
WHO IS GOING TO VOLUNTEER TO COMMIT THAT CRIME? It’s like robbing the bank and telling the teller your address and what time you will be home!
BAT………..
obozo
August 7th, 2012
12:21 pm
democrats being responsible citizens, boy, did I get a good laugh out of that one.
Me made a funny.
Kyle Wingfield
August 7th, 2012
12:23 pm
Finn: I don’t know, ask the dozens of people convicted of the crime.
Kyle Wingfield
August 7th, 2012
12:23 pm
Or are you suggesting Democrats force people to commit voter fraud??
Slick Rick
August 7th, 2012
12:25 pm
@ Oblama – You are violating Kyle’s rules. My name is “Slick Rick”, not “Ricky” or “Tricky Ricky.” BE CAREFUL, else you might find yourself subject to moderation, or worse, an outright ban. No need to thank me for the public service announcement.
If it aint one thing it's another
August 7th, 2012
12:25 pm
“It is always the Dems doing the cheating,”
Really?
Are you just talking as usual out of your backside or do you think that is the case?
Even Kyle knows better than that?
FACTS must not be your friend
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
August 7th, 2012
12:27 pm
dozens of people????? WHAT????? ohhh, what happened to the 1,099???
We are changing the laws of the land – CREATING MORE LAYERS OF GOVERNMENT – becuase “dozens” of people are breaking the law???
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
August 7th, 2012
12:28 pm
How many people turn out for an election in any state in the average year? Let’s compare those “dozens” to the total.
It must be more than 1%, dontcha thunk it?
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
August 7th, 2012
12:28 pm
This type of fraud is real but it is a poor reason to justify voter ID laws.
So, we don’t need to know who is voting? Glad they require an ID at the bank, before checks are cashed or we would all be broke. Guess voting is not as important as money to sv.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
August 7th, 2012
12:30 pm
Proof! of voter suppression:
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/karoli/shameless-republican-brags-about-voter-id-w
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
August 7th, 2012
12:31 pm
Ain’t one thing
If there is all this GOP cheating give me one example, I gave you Charlie Rangel.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
August 7th, 2012
12:31 pm
MORE PROOF! of voter suppression:
http://www.theledger.com/article/20120726/POLITICS/120729446/1374?p=2&tc=pg
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
August 7th, 2012
12:32 pm
I think we have blown the holes in this voter fraud idiocy…..next topic.
If it aint one thing it's another
August 7th, 2012
12:34 pm
Finn
Direct them to the MD Republican official who was convicted for voter suppression?
But according to Rafe, he either willfully or ignorantly thinks it is just Democrats. Rafe’s own posts not my conjecture.
Of the Indiana Secretary of State who was convicted of 3 counts of voter fraud.
Better yet, facts make Rafe break out, so let him live in his bubble that is void of facts
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
August 7th, 2012
12:36 pm
Finn, what a crock, the guy says voter ID will allow Rep to win in PA. Yeah, he may be right, if you stop the dead, the felons, and the illegals from voting Democrat, the GOP may have a chance. He never said one word about suppressing the vote.
Try, try again. Quoting left wing sources like Maddow, putting words into someones mouth is not proof.
A freaking 12 second clip. Whoa!
If it aint one thing it's another
August 7th, 2012
12:37 pm
Rafe
Rangle was convicted of what?
I not only gave you Charlie White of Indiana who was CONVICTED of voter fraud
I also gave you Paul E. Schurick. A Republican in MD who was convicted of voter suppression.
What else you got with your “it is always the Democrat” LIES?
Is lying a habit for you or did you start today?
Jack
August 7th, 2012
12:39 pm
Franken bought the election; no question about it. Obama bought his election with false promises.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
August 7th, 2012
12:39 pm
This is just as silly as the thought that illegal immigrants are gonna risk DEPORTATION and maybe even JAIL TIME……so they can vote for Obama (a guy who is sending more Hispanics back than his predecessor!)
mwuahahahahahahahaha
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
August 7th, 2012
12:40 pm
Keep up the blinders on, there Rafe! It’s only safe in the real world with your blinders on!
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
August 7th, 2012
12:41 pm
If the GOP was engaged in voter fraud, they would not be pushing voter ID laws, it would make their work much harder.
I will admit that voter ID laws do suppress voter turnout, the dead, the ineligible, the felons, the illegals, and those snow birds who vote in two states tend to stay away from the polls, when ID is required.
ATLBadger
August 7th, 2012
12:43 pm
Unless all those felons in MN were voting under false identities, a voter ID law would do little to prevent that from happening again. Sounds more like a case of MN not properly reviewing their voter registration rolls…Try a better example next time, Kyle.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
August 7th, 2012
12:44 pm
Snow birds are now risking a CRIMINAL charges – to vote in multiple states?
OH THAT HAS TO BE WIDESPREAD – RAMPANT I TELLS YA!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
August 7th, 2012
12:45 pm
Illegals, Rafe?
mwuahahahahahahahahaha
Slick Rick
August 7th, 2012
12:47 pm
Bush’s first election (no, not the one in 2000 when SCOTUS installed him) is proof positive that voter fraud and suppression is alive and well, though only inasmuch as would-be Democratic voters were defrauded and their votes suppressed. And…
Schneeeert
Kyle Wingfield
August 7th, 2012
12:47 pm
Finn: “Dozens” refers to the ones who have been convicted.
JDW
August 7th, 2012
12:48 pm
@kyle..ignoring the one sided hyperbole in your example please explain just how current voter ID laws would have impacted the Franken example…Id’s do nothing to address voter roll errors.
If it aint one thing it's another
August 7th, 2012
12:51 pm
Kyle
So York and the other group are “suggesting” how these folks voted. Do they produce any hard evidence more than “suggestions” and innuendos?
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
hahahahaha
td
August 7th, 2012
12:52 pm
I think Finn is have a breakdown today.
To think that people will not take a chance of getting caught to vote in multiple places or felons voting and even illegals, is a fools mentality.
How do explain the FACT that dead people are caught every year voting? Do the dead people really vote or are these other people committing crimes?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
August 7th, 2012
12:52 pm
Let’s check out the “pay your felon to vote” scheme.
I’m gonna pay you $15,000 to go vote – and yes the government will have your name, your address, and readily accessible files of fingerprints, photos, aliases on hand – and you won’t have a thing to worry about………Trust me!
So, for every one of these felons voting we got us 50 BAT~~~~ CRAZY conservatives voting!
If it aint one thing it's another
August 7th, 2012
12:52 pm
Rafe
You still looking for that Rangle convicted for voter fraud or suppression?
Oh I see. You post allegations. I post convictions. YOU RUN
hahahahahaha
Jefferson
August 7th, 2012
12:54 pm
Easy money.
td
August 7th, 2012
12:55 pm
Finn McCool (The System isn’t Broken; It’s Fixed)
August 7th, 2012
12:52 pm
How do all the dead people vote every year?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
August 7th, 2012
12:56 pm
Finn: “Dozens” refers to the ones who have been convicted.
completely understood, Kyle. So, where is the proof on the other 999+, or 90% of your argument?
Want to see how easy it is to pull a number out of your ear? Watch and learn!
Ummm (I’m thinking……) 20,000! That’s the number of Black Panthers (in Cobb county alone) who will be at your polling place in November!!!!
Hillbilly D
August 7th, 2012
12:58 pm
I think photo ID’s should be required. I really do not understand why it is an issue for some people.
Me neither. Up here in the Hills, I’ve been asked for picture ID to vote for at least 20 years, usually by a person who is at the same time, asking me how my family is doing.
You have to have picture ID at many places, to cash a check, a lot of doctor’s offices, to buy alcohol, etc. I’m sure that somewhere there is somebody who doesn’t have a picture ID but that person would be quite rare. The proposals I heard would give people who didn’t have one a picture ID for free.
As far as which party gets caught, who cares? Punish the guilty, whomever they are.
Darwin
August 7th, 2012
12:58 pm
Of course it’s about voter suppression.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
August 7th, 2012
12:59 pm
td, where is this list of dead people who vote every year? How long is this list compared to the rest of the turnout?
1) You got no list
2) Even if you do have a list, the list is so short it’s like declaring bankruptcy and then blaming it all on that single pack of gum you bought back in June 2010.!
If it aint one thing it's another
August 7th, 2012
12:59 pm
Kyle
Seems to be attempting to extrapololt the issues in MN to the entire country.
Sad thing is that his own article nor York and the group in MN produce any evidence to how those folks voted.
It was “suggested”
If it aint one thing it's another
August 7th, 2012
1:00 pm
“extrapolate ”
My bad
If it aint one thing it's another
August 7th, 2012
1:01 pm
HillBily D
I am for punishing whomever get caught.
However Kyle seems to be implying it is a one way street and some of the bloggers are doing the same. Mind you I have posted facts to the contrary that they ignore.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
August 7th, 2012
1:03 pm
Ain’t
I haven’t run, I will check, but the last time I did, there were still claims that he cheated. You don’t expect those Dems, in position of authority in NYC, to take those claims seriously do you?
Spanish speakers forced to use paper ballots, that can easily be lost, while Rangel voters pulled levers.
How can any state purge voter rolls, when before they get started good, here comes Eric Holder, claiming voter “disenfranchisement”. He likes the votes of the dead, a solid Democrat voting block.
Florida is trying to purge their voter rolls now, after being halted with Holder suits multiple times. Fortunately a judge put a halt to the harassment from Holder.
Dems prefer a rigged system obviously since they have never proposed any voter reform measures and opposed any proposed by the GOP.
If it aint one thing it's another
August 7th, 2012
1:07 pm
Rafe
You claimed it was “always Dems”. That was either willfully naive, ignorant or an outright lie. You tell me which one it was. Informed would not be an option for you on that issue.
You threw out Rangle, which to date has been nothing more than allegatation. You can cry and moan all you like but he has not been indicted for voter fraud or suppression.
I countered with two Republican officials who were convicted in a court of law. Much more than “allegations”.
If it aint one thing it's another
August 7th, 2012
1:08 pm
“allegations” not that crazy misspelled word I posted
My bad again
You post innuendo. I post fact.
If you can’t see the difference, I suggest that you go look it up.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
August 7th, 2012
1:08 pm
after 2.9 million people had voted……the group identified 1,099 felons
Can ya’ll do the math? 1099/2900000 = .0003789965 or .038%.
We are adding layers of bureaucracy because of this rampant, evil threat?
What % of the population dies from poorly inspected food every year? Where is your indignation about that?
If it aint one thing it's another
August 7th, 2012
1:09 pm
Why will you not admit your comment that I called you out on was incorrect?
Why will you not address the convicted Republicans?
JKL2
August 7th, 2012
1:10 pm
funkisha- The information given suggests the voter rolls in that state are not purged of felons and that voting is based on the honor system.
The Democrat luvs them some voter fraud. If you even mention purging voter rolls they will kidnap your family. Ask Florida if you don’t believe me.
md
August 7th, 2012
1:12 pm
“We have strong evidence (Kyle’s phrase) of what the republican intentions are by the purging of legitimate voters off rolls in Fla. ”
Legitimate? must be why they sued the feds for access to Homeland Security’s database……to make sure they were only getting the legitimate ones.
Some folks need to learn to apply some basic logic…………
td
August 7th, 2012
1:13 pm
Finn McCool (The System isn’t Broken; It’s Fixed)
August 7th, 2012
12:59 pm
td, where is this list of dead people who vote every year? How long is this list compared to the rest of the turnout?
1) You got no list
2) Even if you do have a list, the list is so short it’s like declaring bankruptcy and then blaming it all on that single pack of gum you bought back in June 2010.!
1: Google is your friend. dead people voting in X year.
2: So what you are saying is since the numbers are so small then we should just accept that some fraud goes on and should not try to stop it. Well heck why not just stop elections and do polling to get the winner if our votes count for so little?
Why are you so strongly opposed to voter id laws? Please do not insult our intelligence by saying that the poor can not vote because they do not have the means to get an id because we all know that is BS and has been proven so in Georgia.
Kyle Wingfield
August 7th, 2012
1:13 pm
Finn: All 1,099 were found to be felons who had voted. The problem with prosecuting the other ones, as noted in the OP, is that a conviction requires proof that they broke the law “knowingly” (which, I would note, is a higher bar to clear than with most criminal offenses). Did you even read the OP?
Kyle Wingfield
August 7th, 2012
1:14 pm
If it ain’t @ 1:01: No, you’re assigning that implication and motivation to me. When asked about it, I’ve clearly stated I think voter fraud by or for either party is a problem and should be prosecuted.
Kyle Wingfield
August 7th, 2012
1:15 pm
Finn @ 1:08: The relevant number for comparison in this case is the margin of victory: 1,099 > 312. There were a number of primary races last week that were decided by tenths of a percentage point of the total votes cast.