T-SPLOST vote reiterates: We’re more ‘metro’ than ‘Atlanta’
On Tuesday’s ballots, perhaps no question was more opposite the T-SPLOST in scope and spirit than the cityhood initiative for Brookhaven. Their opposite results — voters soundly defeated the T-SPLOST but approved Brookhaven’s incorporation — create a congruity that helps explain why the tax proposal was ill-designed from the start.
In short: Our region is not becoming more centralized, but less. The popular and political momentum is not toward bigger, but smaller.
Counting Brookhaven, which becomes a city of some 49,000 residents, four of Georgia’s 20 most-populous cities didn’t exist just seven years ago. All four — the others are Dunwoody, Johns Creek and Sandy Springs — are in Fulton and DeKalb counties. So are two smaller new cities, Chattahoochee Hills and Milton.
The biggest reason these areas incorporated was to insulate themselves as much as possible from costly, ineffective county governments. But it’s instructive that, while both Brookhaven and Sandy Springs abut Atlanta, neither of them sought refuge in the big city’s arms.
In fact, the last half-century of our history shows that, while the gravitational pull for the state’s population is toward Atlanta, the drift within the metro area is toward the edges. In 1960, Atlanta was a city of 487,455 in a metro area of 1.3 million. The 2010 census found a city of 420,003 in a metro area of almost 5.3 million. This steady trend toward the periphery did not prevent prosperity.
This is a different development pattern than other large U.S. metro areas have seen, or at least a starker example of a common one. Among the nation’s 20 largest metro areas, the average central city is home to a fifth of its region’s residents. Atlanta dropped below that threshold sometime in the 1970s and now sits at 8 percent. Only Miami and Riverside, Calif., anchor less-centralized regions.
Getting back to the T-SPLOST, the cities to which tax proponents often compared Atlanta have far more concentrated populations. To name a few: Dallas (19 percent of its metro area’s residents live in the hub city), Denver (24 percent), Portland (26 percent), Houston (35 percent), Phoenix (35 percent), Charlotte (42 percent).
To reach those levels of centralization, hundreds of thousands of metro Atlantans would have to move inside the capital city’s limits. Can anyone honestly envision that happening?
Yet, the city of Atlanta stood to receive the highest share of T-SPLOST spending relative to the tax revenues it generated: 140 percent. Gwinnett County, to name one counter-example, was to keep just 74 cents on the dollar.
It’s true that commuters in each county stood to benefit from projects built elsewhere, but those figures were overly skewed. The Atlanta-centric nature of the project list ran counter to the way metro residents have voted with their feet. And that gave the appearance, at least, that the point was not to relieve traffic congestion where it has developed, but to turn that gravitational pull back toward the central city. Which fed into the crucial issue of trust, or lack thereof.
As an Atlanta resident myself, I don’t want to see the city continue its stagnation. But I do think its renaissance will require much more than a force-feeding of transportation funding from elsewhere. If the T-SPLOST’s defeat spurs Atlanta’s leaders to figure out what else they need to do, maybe the whole lamentable exercise was worthwhile.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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310 comments Add your comment
Hillbilly D
August 4th, 2012
11:51 am
Brosephus
That was sort of a condensed version. The thing that I find interesting is that some folks try to blame the defeat on one group or another, when it lost among just about any slice of the vote you want to look at.
Absolutely 100% correct. Metro Atlanta does not have the natural resources to grow any larger. The state needs to look at other areas to grow.
As long as nearly every local government in the state is made up of commissioners and councilmen who make their living off real estate and development, they’re never going to wise up. They’ll try to ride that horse ’til it drops dead. which is probably not too far in the future.
In my opinion, they should move a lot of the state government offices to Milledgeville or somewhere else in Middle Georgia. It’d make it more centrally located and also help Atlanta with the traffic problem.
If a person lives in Valdosta, they’re about as far from Atlanta, geographically, as Washington DC is from NYC. Is it any wonder people in South Georgia feel like the Capital is totally out of touch with them?
middle of the road
August 4th, 2012
11:55 am
“Tolls on the intercity interstates would push
more traffic to the bypasses
and city streets”
No but it might push a lot of suburbanites to find jobs OTP.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
August 4th, 2012
11:56 am
atler8: And what does your post say about your own personal moral compass?
———–
It says that I’m a real American who values private property rights, as opposed to your and Obozo’s collectivist dogma which has produced misery worldwide and four years of 8-10% unemployment here.
Numbers-R-US
August 4th, 2012
11:59 am
I think Galloway’s post is on to something. We’re more like the EU than we are willing to acknowledge and maybe even worse given that we are not even satisfied with the autonomy we currently enjoy in each of our little Georgia county fiefdoms–we want to take down another notch and subdivide into a multitude of autonomous cities in order to satisfy yet another level of sub-cultures within our sub-cultures. What next–North and South Brookhaven. “Can’t any of us just get along,” asked the residents of the quarter-mile long street.
MiltonMan
August 4th, 2012
11:59 am
When elephant ears Redd came out in support of TSPLOST, I knew it was doomed at that point.
Obama is over
August 4th, 2012
12:00 pm
Your point about fundamental mistrust of elected officials is well taken. Another key point is accountability. I applaud Mayor Reed for using political capital to support TSPLOST. The Brookhaven city topic is interesting to me because the interviews I have read about the subject suggest that Brookhaven will not necessarily save significant amounts of money by becoming their own city. As a matter of fact, the taxes may actually increase. However, the key point is that the citizen taxpayers of Brookhaven could control their own destiny. They are tired of lack of support and accountability from Dekalb County. It is not about “fairness”, it is about results. Obama needs to take notice because I think that this is part of a larger national trend. Cruz’s victory in Texas may be portayed as a Tea Party victory, but it represents a fundamental desire for political accountabiltiy as much as fiscal responsibility. The challenge here is how Dekalb county will replace $25mm in lost tax revenues. Buckhead is next. Can you imagine the loss of revenue for both Fulton County and the City of Atlanta if Buckhead is removed from the tax base? I am a native Atlantan and have lived in other major metropolitan areas around the world during my career. I still think that Atlanta is one of the most dynamic exciting cities in the country because of our diversity, ease of access, weather, and quality of life. We need political leadership that does not simply try to assign blame on others; is willing to be held accountable; actually listens to advice from taxpayers, and are responsible stewards for our money without regard for partisan politics.
Loves Me Some Milton County
August 4th, 2012
12:00 pm
City of ATL schools at risk of losing accreditation. Teachers fired for cheating. Much higher crime per capita…..quit wishing/making crap up and look at the stats. Home prices have dropped. Check those stats too. High taxes, corrupt city government. Only 8% of the population lives in the city of ATL.
I mean who wouldn’t want all of that??? GREAT area to raise kids!
Yeah I think I’ll stick to my 30 min commute and stay in N Fulton (soon to be Milton County again) but thanks anyway.
Gotta run for my tee time…..
Just Say No to New Taxes
August 4th, 2012
12:02 pm
The government collects more than enough in taxes, they just steal the money and spend it for their own crooked purposes. Need proof? Take the tire disposal fee, what is it, a buck fifty per tire? Instead of using the money to clean up the tire dumps, it goes into the general fund and gets spent on whatever whim the clowns in the legislature want, usually something crooked. Or take the Ga 400 toll money, it was supposed to be used only to pay off the debt for the expansion of Ga 400, but it got diverted to Atlantic Station by that obese clown, Roy (the crook) Barnyard, imho. Never trust the government with anything, they are all liars, thieves, cowards, and traitors! Remember that come the revolution!
md
August 4th, 2012
12:03 pm
“As long as nearly every local government in the state is made up of commissioners and councilmen who make their living off real estate and development, they’re never going to wise up.”
As long as property taxes are part of that equation, I wouldn’t look for it to change any time soon. When we fund our massive school systems primarily from property taxes, nothing will change until folks decide they want to pay for those schools in some other fashion………..
Hillbilly D
August 4th, 2012
12:15 pm
md
The property tax system is a holdover from the 19th century, when most people’s wealth was primarily in land. Don’t even get me started on that.
Brosephus™
August 4th, 2012
12:18 pm
In my opinion, they should move a lot of the state government offices to Milledgeville or somewhere else in Middle Georgia. It’d make it more centrally located and also help Atlanta with the traffic problem.
I’d agree. I would nominate the Georgia Assembly to be the group to lead the effort. I’m sure the hotels and dining would be cheaper which would lower the per diem amount that they would collect. I wonder how much taxpayers could save by doing that?
@@
August 4th, 2012
12:18 pm
The only connection I have to Atlanta is the mailing addresses where my bills are sent.
Personally…I’m looking to move to Podunk township, wherever it may be.
Goodbye, elbows and a$$holes.
Hillbilly D
August 4th, 2012
12:23 pm
I’m sure the hotels and dining would be cheaper which would lower the per diem amount that they would collect.
That’s a good point. It also brings up a question I’ve had, if they can get unlimited gifts from lobbyists, why not do away with the per diem? Seems to me you can’t have it both ways.
Dusty
August 4th, 2012
12:23 pm
Hillbilly D 11:51
You do remember that Milledgevillle has already been the capital of Georgia? The preservation people have already polished up the old captal building. It’s ready to go. Just move in!!
WHAT? Somebody has already demanded a city rail system, a perimeter expressway and a new airport at Milledgeville? We may be too late. How about Fargo? They’ve already got a swamp there.
Brosephus™
August 4th, 2012
12:26 pm
if they can get unlimited gifts from lobbyists, why not do away with the per diem?
I guess it boils down to appearances. By keeping the per diem in place, there is the appearance of being somewhat ethical and/or honest. It also gives the appearance that they have not completely prostituted themselves out to special interests. Most people already know they’ve sold themselves, so I think they’re only trying to fool themselves into believing they haven’t been bought.
td
August 4th, 2012
12:26 pm
@@
August 4th, 2012
12:18 pm
10 more years maybe less and I will be drinking my morning coffee looking at the Gulf of Mexico in peace 9 months out of year and wishing summer would never come.
Hillbilly D
August 4th, 2012
12:33 pm
Dusty
Of course, I knew Milledgeville was the capital.
Things could be done in a sensible manner. As an agency in Atlanta outgrows its space and needs a new building, then you just build the new building (or find one) down there. And nothing says everything has to be in one city, either. They could spread it out. If you stop and think about it, how many times does a person deal with a state government agency, in person, anyway. Most of these things could be practically, anywhere.
And the Atlanta vs the State thing is nothing peculiar to Georgia. Go to Illinois and hear what the down state folks have to say about Chicago. Go to the mountains of NC and hear what people say about Raliegh. You can repeat that in just about every state in the Union.
Liberalism is a mental disorder, Conservatism is a religion
August 4th, 2012
12:37 pm
@ md ““I’m a native Atlantan, born and raised, and I’ve been harping since I was 20 years-old that we need to stop sprawling out in every direction. ”
Sounds fascist to me………who are you to tell others where and how to live?”
Everyone is free to move wherever they choose in this. Just don’t expect the government to come running with tax dollars to subsidize your decisions. Thats sounds like welfare to me.
I think what the original poster meant was that there was no planning of how Atlanta has developed and as a result the infrastructure has no way of keeping up with the sprawl. The problem with sprawling all the way to Tennessee, besides the infrastructure, is that there are few places that are designed for human beings instead of just cars.
Corey
August 4th, 2012
12:44 pm
Let’s face it. This would have passed if MARTA nor the beltline were part of the plan. Rightly or wrongly most suburbanites rely on WSB Action News to inform them. One would think that Atlanta is no place for anyone to live based on Action News’s reports. I lve in the city and walk the streets often. No it isn’t crime free, but I do enjoy living in the city very much. Often on weekends downtown is bustling with visitors. Olympic Park is very family friendly and is a major draw for visitors to the city. Whenever there is a college sporting event in the city MARTA trains are packed with students and fans. Try catching a MARTA train after the Peach Drop. It’s like packing sardines in a can. Often when I read comments on these blogs posted by people who live outside the city I wonder what the hell are they talking about.
The Hammer
August 4th, 2012
12:52 pm
The general level of ignorance concerning economics, and particularly taxes, has ceased to amaze me.
All community value is stored in land.
Therefore, a community should fund public projects through a tax on land value. By not taxing the full rental value of land, communities are subsidizing land owners through their own, personal, values, i.e., labor and capital.
Dusty
August 4th, 2012
12:58 pm
Hillbilly D,
Your idea of spreading government is too practical to be considered. It seems the “government” is not set up to be practical, but to be a seat of power. The capital is like a bowl of sugar to ants, or worse, flies. I don’t think our legislators are all bad but they are infiltrated with those who are. I count lobbyists among the “bad”. Morals and ethics are being tested at every turn. Human nature being what it is, many fail. No rules can prevent that.
We send the best we can find to take the jobs. Right now, our choices are limited by the pure vilification poured upon legislators. It takes a pretty tough “cookie” to do the right thing under such circumstances.
Nationally, I feel sorry for Romney, a very decent man, who is being tortured by lies, insinuations, and every political trick known to man. Perhaps it is “running the gauntlet” kind of thing. I hope he makes it.
Obama receives the same treatment. The fact that he came out of the Chicago political world makes me feel like he knows the system too well. I think the Big C system got him to Washington.
But I wander! I may be dismissed from the Kyle Klan for insubordination!
Fed Up
August 4th, 2012
1:07 pm
I voted No on the Tsplost because of the re-distributionist nature of the massive tax scheme. My long standing problem with Atlanta is the high levels of corruption and as long as Atlanta residents vote for administrations that look at everything through “colored glasses” the region will remain divided. Suburban perception is reality my friends and my view is Atlanta hasn’t had a decent mayor since Sam Massell. Lets take Marta and Hartsfield from Atlanta’s control and create a new regional transportation authority, with equal representation that is devoid of special interest collusion. What is needed is a health dose of honesty, integrity and good will, give us that, then you’ll get our support..
Jerome
August 4th, 2012
1:16 pm
@Intown Resident…..preach on and AMEN!!!! You are 100% correct!!!
intown resident
August 4th, 2012
1:23 pm
Jimmy: “”No one in their right mind outside the city of Atlanta supports anything the Atlanta city government wants.Atlanta is like a foreign country to others in the state.We stay as far away from it as possible.Gen. Sherman was right ,burn it down.”"
I assume you live off in the sticks and have never flown a plane out if Atlanta because it has one of the top airports in the world and I assume you never attend sports events like the brabes and the Falcons and they have better stadiums out in your neck of the woods where horseshoes and shooting beer cans is real entertainment. Also we have a multi billion dollar water and sewer system; I also assume there is no public water and sewer where you are and outhouses are the norm. And I assume you have never been in any of the museums, tourist attractions, malls or parks in Atlanta . You might try seeing them some day. Mighty pretty compared to that dirt road and shacks out where you are. Of course you might run into some people in Atlanta that speak foreign languages and have darker complexions- don’t let that scare you.
Liberalism is a mental disorder, Conservatism is a cult
August 4th, 2012
1:27 pm
On the issue of annexation, the city stagnated in the 60’s and began to decline in population in the 70’s when Ivan Allen and Sam Massell were mayors. This was BEFORE all of the corruption, bad schools etc that some of you keep harping on. This phenomenon happened in cities across the country at the time but in most states, cities were able to grow and remain healthy. In Georgia the inability to annex left a disproportionate percentage of the poor in the city populations. The point is that Atlanta would have a very different make-up and and naturally, the government would be quite different if was the size of Houston.
Alan
August 4th, 2012
1:34 pm
The job of Marta. Is to get people in and out and around Atlanta.
Well guess what , mst people do not work in Atlanta!
The go from one burb to another. Or with in there own..
Atlanta alwas has the hand out asking for money.
Who cares about the belt way? Serves no one in the burbs.
How offen is someone taken to Grady from north Fulton?
More money gos to Grady from north Fulton than from Atlanta tax payers.
Crime! Most for the jail is filled with people from people from south Fulton .
ATLANTA tax yourselves !!
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
August 4th, 2012
1:36 pm
Intown resident
Mighty pretty compared to that dirt road and shacks out where you are.
Thanks goodness, there are other options, but if penned down to that choice, I’ll take the dirt road and a shack, thank you!
Out where I are, we have a nice house on about 25 acres off a paved road. No neighbors, peace, and quiet, beautiful trees and pastures, and government only intrudes on us to take their ample share of our income, but otherwise leaves us alone.
Liberalism is a mental disorder, Conservatism is a cult
August 4th, 2012
1:41 pm
@ Fed Up
I don’t know if you’re aware of this but here in the south there was a history that preceded Atlanta having a majority black population in which blacks were routinely excluded and marginalized. So there is a history “special interest” on both sides.
But thank you for being honest about what we all know is true. Sadly its something that I’ve learned from being here for 15 years is that EVERY issue is racialized to some degree.
ATLien
August 4th, 2012
1:42 pm
A majority of surburban / exurban dwellers have perceptions of Atlanta based on racism and fear. It’s an urban city. Is it crime free no, but what leading metropolis is. As an Atlantan who has lived and worked in DC and NYC for numerous years sufficient public transportation has done nothing to hinder the desire of affluent and educated people of all ethnicities to flock and continue to live there. You have a subway line that runs parallel to 8 figure apartments on park avenue, you have gentrification that has resurrected Harlem and certain Brooklyn neighborhoods (in NYC). DC has seen a complete 180 of the U street corridor. As it pertains to Atlanta, we have seen gentrification positively affect castleberry hill, ormewood park, kirkwood, portions of east atlanta; these neighborhoods foster retail development and foot traffic and are anchored by sufficient public transportation.
Look I personally don’t care that people choose to live in a Boring suburb replete with olive gardens and TGI Fridays while commuting 45 mins to the city to work. But realize YOU are the reason for the congestion. We should charge YOU by coming up with a sufficient gas tax or alternative (commuter tax) that gives Atlanta the resources we need to enhance our public transportation to Foster more growth and development intown. If you don’t like your “surcharge”, then stay out in the sticks and hope businesses follow en masse.
Liberalism is a mental disorder, Conservatism is a cult
August 4th, 2012
1:50 pm
@ Alan
Most people don’t work in N Fulton either so I guess they don’t deserve any infrastructure either. In fact explain to me exactly where it is that most people work in this sprawl-opolis so we can concentrate our infrastructure there.
Yes, but...
August 4th, 2012
2:00 pm
If we used a 100% return to the source jurisdiction as the sole metric for making wise transportation decisions, there would be a 1000 mile wide swath of the interstate highway missing through the Great Plains and Rocky Mountains because the residents of those areas don’t generate nearly enough revenue to build those segments. Sometimes you have to spend a little more in some areas in order to create a network that’s cohesive and useful to everyone.
So even if your 140% to 74% math were accurate (which you can crunch the numbers an infinite number of ways to prove whatever viewpoint you want), it’s a meaningless, and ultimately counterproductive, way to make transportation investment decisions. And if the region doesn’t get over its parochial Atlanta vs. Gwinnett vs. Fayette vs. Rockdale, etc. mentality soon, we’re all going to suffer in the long term as growth shifts to metro areas elsewhere which actually understand that the central city and its suburbs must speak and act with one voice.
raven5
August 4th, 2012
2:04 pm
As we saw that TSPLOST train did not leave the station at all; why did the voting citizens of Georgia was not told the truth about it in the first place! All of the advertisements about “Untie Atlanta” and the rest of the surrounding counties was merely an unprofessional way to get taxes raised for the county. I read where a man in Dallas Georgia perhaps open a lot of eyes…..if not it should. He said that driving might as well overtake MARTA, would it be worth it to have MARTA go around all of the surrounding counties picking up passengers dropping them off where they need to be drop and then the passengers has to take other transportation to their jobs! That is not even right nor sound right either when they have cars to take them direct. Well, we are seeing cities after cities being formed away from Atlanta and Dekalb, that is what might be the death of North and South Fulton and Dekalb if that continues because people are tired of paying high taxes and not seeing anything done for the taxes they pay. Sure the taxes can be raised or jobs be cut within those counties; but that still don’t make those counties have greater taxes to support their cities. I read where people was moving to Atlanta…but that too was a big lie; they are moving out and away from such a place because of the “cost-of-living taxes.” We now have to be honest, truthful and forthcoming to all of Georgia tax payers. There is nothing concrete that can be done to Untie the Traffic Problem basely coming through Georgia. It would take the engineers years to bring traffic over the city and around it making exit arteries just as we have seen on I-75, 85, 285, I-20 etc. Right now, they are right on one account; traffic is bad and its a mess getting to anyplace here especially when you have all major attractions in or near the same places! Revenue greed has killed the city because nothing is outward, they are located inward and traffic jams is a pain and its not been fixed in years. To the greedy, that may be what is wanted but to those who come to this city, it is a slap in the face because its hard driving into downtown the way traffic is flowing! I can’t forget to say something about how we have focus so much on greed that we have forgotten about the quality-of-life here. Our roadways are full of trash, wreckage from vehicles that is not removed; trash everywhere you look, bridges look like they are weak, unlevel interstates that has openings in the middle and holes where you might lose a tire, but surely a hub-cap; slums…….vacant shopping malls or retail centers, vacant homes……some falling down or about to; then, we have this tax raising attitude but we lack the real stories I have just named. People are laughing at us…….and I don’t blame them because we have went to the bottom level thinking that our city is so great that we have it “going-on” but in reality we don’t! Is it safe to say that this TSPLOST was not geared for any Untie of anything, in fact, I think it would be used to close up some old loop-holes and then begun to start repair most of the things I have mentioned or none of them at all. Bue surely, that money would not b earmark for any new Major Untie Highway developments. You can called it what you want, “Unite Atlanta:, Cobb, Clayton, Fulton, Dekalb, etc., but that was not the purpose at all. It was to get this tax where we as tax payers would be paying over the next 10 to 30 years of funding something many of us wold never see, except, the New GA Dome, upscale shopping and dining facilities and brand new parking decks where you leave and either walk to the many floors of the dome or take the elevators…….and then pay high prices for food, parking and booting in fact, whatever prices you are hit with, that would be revenue to the city that you voted on to past for this TSPLOST. Sorry, but this was a scam!
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
August 4th, 2012
2:47 pm
Sprawl is the answer, not the problem. Spread folks out, build lots of roads to interconnect everything. It’s simple math–if we double the lane-miles in the region, we can increase the population by 50% and still be way ahead.
VOTE THEM OUT !!!
August 4th, 2012
3:02 pm
Bottom line here is that our politicians have NOT BEEN TRUSTWORTHY so we need to continue to vote OUT any and every incumbent in this state. Keep doing it for the next decade or two until we see some real policitians – who are willing to be honest, not play around with those who money in their campagins, promise votes, etc. Listen folks, one key question on the ballot on Tuesday said it all. Do you remember what is was? “Do you approve to put a maximum ceiling of $100.00 for gifts that lobbyists can make to politicians?” – this was the basic wording. And guess what – it was a “non-binding” vote – meaning like a “survey.” Well if the politicians really wanted to be “above board” and show you they are, it would not have been a “non-binding/survey” vote!!! That was just thrown in well, because it “looked good, sounded good” but wasn’t REAL! Likewise with the vote on the “casino.” PLEASE, if they really wanted us to VOTE as we should on any and all major items (such as HOT lanes!!!!) these would have been REAL. Nope, the state of Georgia is riddled with corruption and it has gotten much worse over the years. Vote all incumbents OUT OF OFFICE over the next decade or so until we can get real, altruistic politicians in office once and for all!!!
Shame on our politicians for acting as if “Georgia doesn’t shy away from challenges, but instead we rise up to meet them” – blah, blah, blah. Tell that to the children who die because of DFACS ineptness. Tell that to the people who sit outside your office (or call) to try and meet with you when the mentally ill and developmentally disabled in your state hospitals were neglected, raped, abused, and dying. Tell that to some of the families of these folks who reached out to their politicians TO NO AVAIL. The politicians in this state do what they always do – they passed the buck and “shut-down.” You “rise up to meet challenges?????” PLEASE…..The State of Georgia was “sued” by the Deptartment of Justice for these atrocities and you have the audacity to state you “rise up to meet your challenges in this state?” Good old Sonny was a huge part of that, yet in the new “regime” it still continues. There are numerous other reasons the people of GA do not TRUST our politicans…..it would take a book to describe them…and the people of Georgia are sick and tried of it all – they want good, honest, CARING, politicians, who “listen” and don’t shy away from trouble. How in God’s name can it ever get any better until they do????? Whether it is human lives, education, infrastructure, or whatever, either you listen to those within your organizations who are telling you a bunch of bunk on issues or you don’t care. So either through stupidity or lack of caring this is what we have in this state – either way it doesn’t, hasn’t and isn’t working. So wise up – listen to your constituents – and begin to “care!!!!!!!!!” We believe the T-SPLAT vote should have given politicians a big taste of what is to come when voting time comes if that doesn’t start to happen in this fine State (I say fine because of all of the people – you know, your constituents!).
VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS for years to come…..
Jerome
August 4th, 2012
3:05 pm
The reason MARTA is not in the suburbs is because the people in the suburbs didn’t want a certain “element” coming on the trains and causing crime in their quiet suburban neighborhood. Let’s go back to the history of Atlanta during the 70’s when the whites left the city for the suburbs known as “white flight”. MARTA wanted to expand to the suburbs but we all know why that didn’t happen so for years as the suburbs got whiter and the city got darker, traffic in the burbs got heavier due to the population growth of the suburbs which lead to the vast construction boom. By the time the need for mass transportation in the suburbs, it was a done deal because we were already too built out. So thanks to the racial undertones of the 70s is why we are “STUCK” today.
Dusty
August 4th, 2012
3:16 pm
Well, T-SPLOST is splat
And Bookman is back.
So ALLELUIA, dear liberal friends.
This is where the party ends.
yuzeyurbrane
August 4th, 2012
3:31 pm
Kyle, I agree with much of what you state but it also clear that there has been a trend for some time now for folks to move intown and thus higher density. My own view is that price of gas and certain changes in demographics and the general culture are the prime motivators.
Hillbilly D
August 4th, 2012
3:36 pm
I also assume there is no public water and sewer where you are and outhouses are the norm.
I know you don’t get it but condescension does your cause no good. It goes for both sides but until you treat each other as equals, you can forget ever achieving anything.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
August 4th, 2012
3:43 pm
back in the cradle the libs lay
safely tucked in by momma jay
with sweet babbling and lies in their ear
not a real American in sight for them to fear
maybe later, they will head to the Chick-fila
with their favorite queer, ew
middle of the road
August 4th, 2012
3:49 pm
“I also assume there is no public water and sewer where you are and outhouses are the norm.”
No, we have real sewer systems that are not also “combined” with storm drains so that when it rains, raw sewage spills into the river.
middle of the road
August 4th, 2012
3:56 pm
“Of course you might run into some people in Atlanta that speak foreign languages and have darker complexions- don’t let that scare you.”
That doesn’t bother me – unless they shove a gun in my face (like they do to Ga Tech students) or agressively panhandle to ask me for my money, Look at the description and pictures of suspects on the news about robberies in Atlanta. Does any one thing seem to jump out at you as a common item?
atler8
August 4th, 2012
3:58 pm
Lil Barry
You sidestepped what I was talking about & chose a straw man change-of-topic response & you & I & everyone here saw what you did. You’re not fooling anyone. What you wrote is right here in print!
So, once again, I’ll ask you: If you support a knowingly corrupt Republican politician over a Democrat purely & simply because he is a Republican, what does that say about your own moral compass! Now it’s in print here again that I have asked you. Will I still be hearing crickets at sundown?
atler8
August 4th, 2012
4:09 pm
Just say no…
I am very much aware that annexation was one of the topics Kyle addressed & that the posters here have addressed it already, including me! If you saw an earlier post of mine, you would have read how in the 1960’s a narrow, uninhabited strip of land was incorporated all along the Cobb county side of the river to prevent the city of Atlanta from ever being able to jump across the river & incorporate into Cobb. It became the uninhabited town of Chattahoochee Plantation. So, the idea of an Atlanta annexation into Cobb County is long settled as I pointed out.
Furthermore, I lived in Atlanta for 31 years & believe me, I never once heard anyone advocate for or mention a desire to annex into Cobb.
So, your “open warfare” comment was not needed & incendiary & brought nothing but silliness to the table because it is an ALREADY SETTLED ISSUE: it ain’t going to happen!
atler8
August 4th, 2012
4:11 pm
Lil Barry
Your tongue in cheek sprawl comment at 2:47 made me laugh.
Thanks for the dose of humor here.
Mr. Wrestling Number Four
August 4th, 2012
4:24 pm
Does anyone else think that the inadequate, underfunded transportation system in metro Atlanta is a big reason for the Balkanization? People drive from home to work to nearest grocery store/school/mall and back – rarely venturing far from that.
And yes people largely choose the suburban locations to live, but the job concentrations are still downtown, Midtown, Buckhead, Perimeter and Galleria. So with the jobs concentrated and the homes scattered that requires an adequate regional transportation system to function. It’s home locations AND job locations that drive transportation needs.
Some sort of rail line to Emory/CDC makes a lot of sense – it’s difficult to get to by car now. The impacts of the road widenings required would be undesirable.
Guys – that was the cavalry that showed up on Tuesday to start fixing things and instead they were run out of town.
td
August 4th, 2012
4:35 pm
Jerome
August 4th, 2012
3:05 pm
“The reason MARTA is not in the suburbs is because the people in the suburbs didn’t want a certain “element” coming on the trains and causing crime in their quiet suburban neighborhood.”
This is a myth in today’s metro Atlanta and has been since the late 80’s or early 90’s when some democrat thought it was a good idea if you spread the “element” out over a large area. The law was changed where a certain % of all apartment complexes were required to be section 8 and HUD set up all these programs for paying the mortgage on houses on a sliding scale.
So blaming the transportation problems on racism is pure BS.
td
August 4th, 2012
4:42 pm
Mr. Wrestling Number Four
August 4th, 2012
4:24 pm
There are more jobs in Cobb, Gwinn, and North Fulton then there are in Atlanta, Decatur and Buckhead and if you took Federal and State Government jobs out of downtown then the jobs would probably be cut by at least 1/3 if not 1/2. Do you ever notice how easy traffic is inside the perimeter when there is a holiday only government worker get?
There is more traffic going East and West across the top end of 285 then there is in downtown everyday.
Bryan -- MARTA Supporter
August 4th, 2012
4:45 pm
Let the burbs suffer. Let them sit in traffic. If they don’t want mass transit then fine. I say let Fulton and Dekalb vote to add another penny to MARTA without the stupid 50/50 restriction. MARTA has done a great job despite limited support and restrictions not placed on any other transit agency in the world. Lets expand MARTA rail and beef up the bus system. We need to stop allowing CCT, GCT, and Xpress buses into our city. The burbs are so against transit yet their buses come and destroy intown streets. You want to work live and play in the burbs then fine. If you are really against transit stop paying your county for your local bus systems. Let the city home values keep climbing because we are investing in our infrustucture while the burbs continue to decline because of traffic problems.
Dirty Dawg
August 4th, 2012
4:51 pm
Gee Kyle, why do you suppose that SS, Dunwoody, et,al., didn’t want to be ‘in the City’? My bet is that their property taxes, or however they raise their revenue, is every bit as high, so what else could it be? Let’s see, and at the risk of being accused of ‘playing that card’, you don’t suppose it could be for the same reason so mamy of my Republican friends despise the current occupant of the White House, do you? Naah, that couldn’t possibly be it. Racism ended sometime in the ’60s, didn’t it, cause otherwise it would be because they don’t want to be ‘bossed’ around by one/some of ‘them’?
Hillbilly D
August 4th, 2012
4:53 pm
For historical perspective, the City of Atlanta population (not the Metro area) peaked in 1970 at 496,973. 2010 population was 420.003. The city’s population grew every decade from its inception until 1970. The biggest jump in the last 100 years was from 1950 to 1960. 1950 population was 331.314 and in 1960 it had grown to 487,455. The population decreased from 1970 to 1990 and then began to increase again. The 1990 figure was 394,017.
All these are U. S. Census Bureau figures.