Poll Position: What’s your vote on the T-SPLOST?

Jeffrey

July 27th, 2012
10:34 am

1st

Mr. Holmes

July 27th, 2012
10:34 am

I live in Region 3 (metro ATL) and am voting yes. Is it perfect? No. Does it satisfy everyone? No. But it’s time to stop kicking the can down the road.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

July 27th, 2012
10:35 am

I vote no for no more TSplotch blog topics!

richard

July 27th, 2012
10:36 am

I live in Cobb and will be voting YES. It is not perfect but I believe it will move us forward.

Jeffrey

July 27th, 2012
10:38 am

I’m voting for it. I live in the city, less than half mile to belt line As much as I love laughing at otpers and the commutes they endure, I think it is best for the city as a whole. I want Atlanta to get its mojo back and hope this helps our city become a destination again for businesses and smart folks.

carlosgvv

July 27th, 2012
10:43 am

Absolutely no. Especially since we’ve learned many of the “improvements” aren’t even starting till 2018 and 2019. By then, pols figure, corectly, that most voters will have forgotten all about this issue and their vote.

Mr. Holmes

July 27th, 2012
10:47 am

I’ve heard several people in the last few days — left-leaning but by no means raging liberal types — say the outcome of this vote determines whether they will stay in Atlanta long-term. I think you can reasonably extend that sentiment out to the entire business community, hence the widespread chamber of commerce support for the referendum.

Kyle, I realize you’ve already gone on record against it, but I hope conservatives will for once acknowledge that roads & bridges & infrastructure don’t just magically appear. Channel your inner Eisenhower, for pete’s sake. Ga government is dominated by the Right anyway, so it’s not like the funds will be in the hands of those dreaded socialists. Let’s step up to our civic duty for a change.

Bobb

July 27th, 2012
10:48 am

Placing any tax on those that get little or no benefit is unacceptable. Highway tax money should come only from those that use the roads and in porportion to that use – gasoline taxes, vehicle registrations, etc.

Jimmy62

July 27th, 2012
10:54 am

Just looking at the list of projects, too many of them cost a lot of money and don’t seem like they’ll do much to improve transportation. Throwing money at the problem isn’t good enough, try again.

Road Scholar

July 27th, 2012
10:55 am

carlosgvv: Most of the projects that would be accelerated with Tsplost monies are not in design, property acquisition, etc. now. The Tsplost projects that do not have federal monies attached do not have the stringent environmental analysis and report approvals. Those bigger projects do. Also, while public involvement and input is not required, the state and locals would be stupid to skip that normal step.These steps delay projects implementation. Also, the revenue comes in each month so , under the recent ruling by the AG that a project must have all the money needed to construct in the bank before going to construction, that will also delay earlier implementation.

To accelerate those projects that get funded on the tail end, bonds could be sold at the present low rates, to get the money earlier. Of course that would deflect some money to interest payments.All projects are suppose to be finished at the 10 year expiration of the program.

MarkV

July 27th, 2012
10:59 am

“Placing any tax on those that get little or no benefit is unacceptable. Highway tax money should come only from those that use the roads and in porportion to that use – gasoline taxes, vehicle registrations, etc.”

The issue is not just highway tax money.
http://atlantaga.gov/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=4561

Road Scholar

July 27th, 2012
11:02 am

Bobb: How does your food get to you? How does your clothes TV’s, cars,gasoline…etc. get to you? How do your children get to school, doctor, soccer, etc.? By road. (some may actually walk or take transit also) Maybe goods come by plane or train first, but they are distributed to the stores or your home by road. You don’t think that congestion is not a part of the prices you pay? Not apart of the delay you incur sitting in traffic?

carlosgvv

July 27th, 2012
11:03 am

Road – 10:55
Kyle – 10:59

Both of you are making the HUGE assunption that our politicians will actually spend this money where it’s being voted on and not on their pet pork projects and personal property improvements.

Road Scholar

July 27th, 2012
11:06 am

Kyle: Did you attend any public meeting, on line meeting or make comment to the list as it was being vetted to the public BEFORE the list was approved? Did any of the people against the tax? I did! What did Mayor Reed say…200,000 people made comments.

As the Rolling Stones put…You always don’t get what you want! And how would they know what you want if one doesn’t provide input?

iggy

July 27th, 2012
11:07 am

I love the latest TSplost commercials. In so many words…”do it for the children/family”. Typical liberal pandering.

TSplost…NO!!

omg

July 27th, 2012
11:07 am

OMG votes NO!

GaTech Student

July 27th, 2012
11:08 am

Voting YES!

I’m ready to stop sitting in traffic.

iggy

July 27th, 2012
11:08 am

Oh…and the commercials in some confusing manner relate that TSplost will somehow reduce or limit future increases on the gasoline tax.

LOL…such misinformation.

MarkV

July 27th, 2012
11:08 am

carlosgvv @ 11:03 am
“Both of you are making the HUGE assunption that our politicians will actually spend this money where it’s being voted on and not on their pet pork projects and personal property improvements.”

According to that logic, we should not give money to the government for anything. We might as well dissolve it, right?

Chick-fil-A: Not A Choice

July 27th, 2012
11:09 am

Anything that will take away from my financial ability to purchase that Chick-fil-A taste for which my birth-given libido CRAVES, such as this corrupt, asinine Sales Tax proposal that will NEVER die or go away, gets a resounding “No” vote from me.

GOD made me lust after Chick-fil-A.

I can’t help it.

Road Scholar

July 27th, 2012
11:12 am

carlosgov: The law states that it can only be used for those projects. The Lt Gov and head of the state Senate will appoint a 5 person oversight committee to ensure the monies are wisely spent and the projects are delivered on time and on/under budget. Have you sent in your letter asking to be on the citizens committee? The only name that has been suggested that I have heard is Clark Howard…that would be perfect since he can get dollars out if a turnip! How about Pierre Howard since he was well respected by both sides ?

A Realist

July 27th, 2012
11:12 am

Kyle,
The list is probably as close to ‘Pareto Optimal’ as it can get.
So if you make it more perfect for you, someone else will likely be disadvantaged.
That’s what happens in a political compromise – which this is. It’s as good as it’s gonna get.

Contrary to your statements, there is no Plan B. If there is one show it to me now!

Chick-fil-A: Not A Choice

July 27th, 2012
11:12 am

see also: The GA 400 Toll Booths that were “promised” by our State government to removed back by August 2004 when GA 400 was paid in full

Were the toll booths still there when you drove by this morning?

iggy

July 27th, 2012
11:12 am

“According to that logic, we should not give money to the government for anything. We might as well dissolve it, right?”

Based on lack of govt integrity, responsbility, honesty etc., the answer to your question is…(drum roll please)…for the most part, Yes!

sircharles

July 27th, 2012
11:12 am

I live in Cobb County, I also live in the state of Georgia. With all of the major highways we have that is already in use; there is no way you can untie-Atlanta! Now, the officials who is pushing this TSPLOST knows it; all of you who will vote yes, for the next 10 years and longer you will be footing the bills, funding, the roadbocks, tie-ups, wrecks, etc., off of your 1c taxes added on to what you already pay now. I asked myself, since I been living here 1998, I have seen no improvements on either of the major highways, they were merely resurfaced, widen but still we are in the same mess now as it was back when I came here. So here is my questions…………….where did all of the money go that the Federal Government gave to the state of Georiga. Since it was not used, was it placed into an escrow? Instead of all of Georiga tax payers adding on more taxes to pay, why not use a portion of that money to build “street cars, ARC, Beltline, etc for anything else you want to “Untie” because the more money you take from us as tax payers, you will never use the money you now have in stockpile. Voting no on this TSPLOST is the wright way to go; it will force all those big boys to actually come forth and tell us the truth!

Dusty

July 27th, 2012
11:13 am

I report….10:35

I agree. No more T-SPLOST blog topics.. Enough chicken has been fried also.

Let’s see. Topic? How about “Is Luckovich from Mars? Can’t we send him back?”

Chick-fil-A: Not A Choice

July 27th, 2012
11:14 am

Once the State gets all the “promised” road construction and mass transit projects completed and paid in full, they will find new excuses for which to keep the tax in place to fund other, completely-UNrelated projects and buy votes from the lazy and the gullible.

The State has lied to us before.

They will lie to us again this time.

Vote “NO!” to T-SPLOST on Tuesday, and spend your money on the people you love instead.

Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy

July 27th, 2012
11:15 am

Looking forward to Wed, to hear the bitter reaction from the elites and the threats they make about making us live with our decision.

Jefferson

July 27th, 2012
11:15 am

Atlanta needs the jobs, tax your way back to employment — that’s the GA GOP solution.

Road Scholar

July 27th, 2012
11:16 am

Kyle: Other than transit versus road, I have not read one comment in any blog that said that people/bloggers even attended any meeting or comment during the lead up to the final list. It is one thing to comment. It is another thing to comment and your comment is dismissed. Hindsight is always 20-20…after the fact. As God told a lottery player who complained that he had not won a lottery…Meet me half way…buy a ticket!

iggy

July 27th, 2012
11:17 am

“Senate will appoint a 5 person oversight committee” Oh yes, another Blue Ribbon commission, like in Revenge of the Nerds,

“Instead, I’m going to organize a special blue ribbon, fact-finding commission made up of myself and miss betty childs. We will get to the bottom of this dastardly deed.”

Mr. Holmes

July 27th, 2012
11:18 am

But Kyle, if my recall of your arguments is accurate, you think the project list is mediocre because too much goes to transit, which of course is the opposite position of Sierra Club, which opposes (stupidly, IMO) because they think too little goes to transit.

It’s a political question, which is why I believe this is as good as it will get for both sides. We have been widening roads, building more freeways & interchanges, extending asphalt further & further out into the piedmont, for FORTY YEARS. Let’s put some modicum of resources into trying something different, while at the same time making improvements that acknowledge the city’s commuting realities.

zeke

July 27th, 2012
11:18 am

First and foremost, THIS BOONDOGGLE DOES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO RELIEVE TRAFFIC CONGESTION! There is too much allocated for marta expansion, yes, all the bus/rail/trolley/beltline projects are nothing more than the expansion of marta, A TOTALLY FAILED SYSTEM! I no longer live in Atlanta, THANK GOD, but I did for more than 10 years. I rode marta maybe 3 or 4 times in that decade! It offered nothing to me, nor does it to 99% of the population! And these projects of the tax are simply to force marta into Cobb, Gwinnett, Cherokee and others who have repeatedly voted against such! Call it racist, but, it is not! It is about keeping the cities and towns safe from the criminal element that uses it to rob, steal, rape, murder and make a clean getaway! One of the few times I rode the train was when with 3 other couples my wife and I got on the train at Lennox and just rode down toward town and returned! When you see the people that get off/on at Lennox, it is obvious that they are not there for the restaurants, or, the shopping at Lennox or Phipps! That is what the other cities and counties DO NOT WANT COMING TO THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS WITH A SUBSIDIZED PASS!

The only way to improve congestion is to build the outer loop, build some direct route roads to take traffic not destined to downtown away from the perimeter, not to it! Paulding made a great proposal for a 75N to 75S bypass that would be less expensive and make a large dent in the congestion! This is the type projects we need, not more marta and more subsidies! It has been some time, so I may not be accurate to the penny on these figures. Just before or just after I moved from the area, the marta board was bragging how they had ended the year with a $12 million surplus. But, in the same article they were telling the truth. Marta had received $166 million from the 1% tax. THEY ACTUALLY LOST $144 MILLION! THIS WE CANNOT AFFORD!

VOTE NO!

MarkV

July 27th, 2012
11:19 am

iggy @11:12 am
“According to that logic, we should not give money to the government for anything. We might as well dissolve it, right?”
“Based on lack of govt integrity, responsbility, honesty etc., the answer to your question is…(drum roll please)…for the most part, Yes!”

I thought this blog was meant to be for mature comments.

A Realist

July 27th, 2012
11:19 am

….and the GA400 booths were put up by the DOT, with no input from the public. No vote, no choice … just pay it! The promise to remove the booths was made without any backing of laws. All it took to break the promise was just to do it. You know what political promises are, yes?

Just like gas taxes – if they go up, you have no control over where the money is spent, except by voting for the politicians who appoint the DOT board. And since there is scant money available from our gas taxes for road construction, you can expect that tax to rise! The population isn’t getting smaller.

Road Scholar

July 27th, 2012
11:21 am

Dusty: Why, do you miss him? (Tee Hee)

A Realist: Good Post.

Sir Charles: Go to GDOT and see their detailed budgets and list of expenditures. The only Fed funds stockpiled are those waiting for the project that they are assigned to to go to construction!!!

Jefferson

July 27th, 2012
11:24 am

The US would never have made it to the moon if the GOP acted like they do today back then. No vision for a future. Tax or not, they have forgotton why they are there.

Chick-fil-A: Not A Choice

July 27th, 2012
11:25 am

Are all the AJC writers and reporters now voting for this extra tax while boycotting & by-passing Chick-fil-A as they drive on already-paid-in-full State & Federal roads to the nearest abortion clinics, McDonald’s, gay-bar places and local headquarters for 0bama Re-Election Campaign?

The Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers

July 27th, 2012
11:25 am

Vote Yes for another permanent 1% sales tax increase!!

Hillbilly D

July 27th, 2012
11:27 am

By now, everybody ought to pretty well know where everybody else stands on this.

The Austrian Brotherhood

July 27th, 2012
11:28 am

Without T-Splost how will the children with cancer get their medicine? Do you really want to be be directly responsible for the death of a child? If you’re not a baby killer, then VOTE YES on T-Splost.

iggy

July 27th, 2012
11:28 am

“I thought this blog was meant to be for mature comments.”

Thank you! If the govt were a private corp they would be bankrupt, kaput, defunct and the reasons for such are almost infinite.

massachusetts refugee

July 27th, 2012
11:28 am

No. No to another penny on every dollar I spend. No to a poorly thought out list of “projects” (a control tower for McCollum? Really??) No to lining the pockets of politicians and politician’s cronies.

A Realist

July 27th, 2012
11:29 am

Zeke,
If you don’t live in the area – you don’t have a dog in this hunt….
And if you use a MARTA train as a getaway vehicle – you’ve found a great way to get caught.

Since most crooks like to use automobiles, we shouldn’t build any roads so they can’t get away easily. If Paulding wants an outer perimeter, let ‘em pay for it the same way Fulton and DeKalb pay for MARTA.

Aquagirl

July 27th, 2012
11:29 am

When you see the people that get off/on at Lennox, it is obvious that they are not there for the restaurants, or, the shopping at Lennox or Phipps!

Anyone want to make a wild guess how zeke figured out “those people” were up to no good? Golly gee, I can’t imagine what clues zeke used.

iggy

July 27th, 2012
11:30 am

No = 64
Yes = 37

A RESOUNDING defeat!

zeke

July 27th, 2012
11:30 am

Another note! This tax does nothing to fund operational costs of the mass transit projects. Like marta, there will always have to be a subsidy because they will never raise fares to a point to offset operational expenses.I can see paying for the structural improvements of rail and stations as an investment, but, operations MUST BE MADE SELF SUFFICIENT, AND, THE ONLY WAY IS TO RAISE FARES, THEN YOU KICK OUT THE UNIONS! NO PUBLIC TAXPAYER FUNDED EMPLOYEES SHOULD EVER BE ALLOWED TO BELONG TO A COMMIE UNION!!!

Road Scholar

July 27th, 2012
11:30 am

Mr Holmes: and rail line increases in capacity occur by adding rail cars in lieu of widening and additional property acquisition as roads require!

A Realist: The tollbooths were put up WITH public involvement. The public hearing was attended by over 2500 people and a volume of the final EIS was nothing but letters and comments on the project. The Final draft and final EIS included maps of the toll booth. That was done in 1990 if I remember correctly at least 2 years before construction began. The toll studies were done and made available to the public also.

Remember that two booths were proposed on the southern on/off ramps at the Buckhead Loop/Lenox Road? They were not built because they would only show a net “Profit” of $1M over the 20 years of the proposed toll (the study period) and that cars backing onto the Loop would not allow them to operate satisfactory and safely.

Dusty

July 27th, 2012
11:30 am

Awww another tempest in a teapot! T-SPLOST!

Vote NO. Yes, there is a backup plan. Use previous commitments to citizens, count every cent spent and say where it goes, and promise not to spend one cent on MARTA until they can stay on budget.

Potholes? Drive around ‘em. Congestion? Turn on your car radio or whatever.. Work? Try your computer. That’s all you use anyway. No green space? Water your lawn.

You want to argue? Get married! (The mayor of Atalnta is considering that!)

The Austrian Brotherhood

July 27th, 2012
11:32 am

“for anything else you want to “Untie” because the more money you take from us as tax payers, you will never use the money you now have in stockpile.”

HAHAHAHAHA – That’s rich. The money is in a “stockpile”. Like our Social Security is stored away in a lock box. HAHAHAHAHAHA. I tell ya. Boobus Americanus. They’re just a non-stop laugh riot.

END THE FED!

Mr. Holmes

July 27th, 2012
11:32 am

Like marta, there will always have to be a subsidy because they will never raise fares to a point to offset operational expenses.

Hmm. Wondering if zeke realizes that MARTA is legally required to devote half its revenue to capital improvements. Probably not.

bigbill

July 27th, 2012
11:35 am

I urge folks to read AJC Reporter Tammy Joyner’s article in yesterday’s AJC: “Road Builders Look For T-SPLOST Boost.” I believe what’s reported there goes a long way toward explaining what T-SPLOST is really about. It is in great part about continuing the huge flow of tax payers’ funds to the powerful Georgia road builders and contractors. At a time when the Republican-controlled Georgia General Assembly is engaging in cut-backs mandated by the serious recession we are now experiencing, including cutbacks of funds paid to road builders, its Republican members are unwilling to solve the problem for their road builder pals by raising gasoline and other taxes statewide. But they still want to continue funding these corporate interests at the level to which they have grown accustomed. The solution: a local referendum to persuade the voters in the Atlanta area to take up the slack. That’s why the road builders and other powerful corporate interests who stand to financially support T-SPLOST, are providing substantial funds to promote the idea. Why can’t the road builders suffer through this big bank-created recession like the rest of us? It seems that they may not have to, not as long as their road builder-friendly pals in the General Assembly are striving so mightily to help them. A good reason, in my opinion, to vote no on T-SPLOST!

HOT AIR

July 27th, 2012
11:35 am

Still in college and don’t pay taxes except sales tax. We have to much government already. If you want TSPLOST cut something else. My opinion.

Rich

July 27th, 2012
11:41 am

If approved, which I am not in favor of, ten years from now we will hear how it needs to be extended because the proposed project will not be done. Cost over runs and delays will be the reason.

Dusty

July 27th, 2012
11:44 am

Hillbilly D,

How’s the weather in the mountains today? PLease say “cool” so I can dream I ‘m in the blue green havens of happy elevations and cool air.. Yeah! With a cool creek rippling over the rocks! And a little trout yearning to be caught.

It’s hot in Atlanta.. Can you tell?

ATLNative

July 27th, 2012
11:46 am

I’m voting “yes” because the benefits far outweigh the costs, and if we lose this the next project list – if there is a next one – will be much, much worse.

Rich

July 27th, 2012
11:46 am

We need a solution. The penny sales tax may be the way to pay for it, but the list of projects will not ease congestion.

james

July 27th, 2012
11:47 am

Who are the politicians kidding?
There will be no traffic relief with this
joke of a tax… Vote NO!

carlosgvv

July 27th, 2012
11:47 am

Kyle – 11:06

I guess the word “naive” is not in your vocabulary.

Interested Observer

July 27th, 2012
11:49 am

This conversation has been mostly about the project list. Unfortunately, this conversation has ignored the question of whether sales taxes are an appropriate form of taxation (as opposed to income taxes,…) to pay for it.

I generally support the project list. It’s far from perfect, but it is a good compromise. On the other hand, special interest groups have been enjoying tax cuts for a decade, and now they want us to raise our own taxes to fund infrastructure that they need and want as much as anybody. Sales taxes fall most heavily on the poor, less so on the middle class, and even less so on the wealthiest among us. In other words, sales taxes are regressive. So, I’m not going to vote to raise taxes on the poor and middle class in this state while those who enjoy the benefits of infrastructure are enjoying lower taxes.

NO FOR T-SPLOST !!!

July 27th, 2012
11:51 am

#1 – They cannot be trusted with the money
#2 – They want us to UNTIE the TIED UP MESS that THEY TIED UP TO BEGIN WITH !!!
#3 – Vote out every encumbent each and every time you go to vote on anyone. Georgia deserves MUCH BETTER than we have had for the past numerous years!!!
#4 – It should be considered illegal that all of the BIG companies – C. W. Matthews, Yancey Bros., Vulcan Materials, etc. (who stand to gain millions from this) have jumped in and paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to support this campaign – with the Chamber people and the illustrous politicians!! VOTE NO NO NO NO NO to all of this corruption……
#5 – MARTA has long since proven they can’t manage ANYTHING, VOTE NO NO NO…..

T-SPLOST??? We think not….Vote NO for T-SPLAT!!!!!

independent thinker

July 27th, 2012
11:52 am

You really expect white suburbanites to spend their sales tax money on MARTA and the Belt Line? Forget it.
If TSplost was on its way down before that Black leaders commercial with Reed and Andy Young it is finished now. Chip Rodgers and the party of No will make sure no solution is found.
More tolls and higher taxes will build a lot of roads and bridges. Go for it. How about 25 lanes on I-75 in Cobb and Gwinnett -will that solve the problem-Really?

Red

July 27th, 2012
11:52 am

Voting ‘NO’; I elected representatives to make these kinds of decisions. So now I want to see what they come up with next. The trend seems to be that there will be an auction the naming rights of major roadways and light rail lines throughout the metro.

I wouldn’t mind driving on the CocaCola connector to get to Delta Airlines 400 and changing over to the UPS inner northside loop of the perimeter before sailing through the Maggianos spaghetti junction flyover and on up the Home Depot Northeast expressway to the Scientific Atlanta 316.

Dusty

July 27th, 2012
11:54 am

Did someone say T-SPLOST is for ten years? Yes!

This blog is in trouble for ten years. Think of it? Ten years of T-SPLOST subjects.

Even Bookman is beginning to look good which means a total loss of comprehension is occurring..

Rich

July 27th, 2012
11:57 am

independent thinker – How do you see the belt line project helping reduce traffic? What I see is a delvelopment plan to rasie the property tax revenue. I have not been able to understand how the belt line will help.

yuzeyurbrane

July 27th, 2012
11:58 am

Kyle, I told you so. It is not going to be a close vote. My gut feeling based on conversations with my friends and acquaintances squares directly with your poll results.

Chick-fil-A: Not A Choice

July 27th, 2012
11:58 am

As with one of the Anti-Chick-fil-A Protesters coming out of the woodwork this past week, I have ZERO desire to have this extra sales tax stick me anywhere in the vicinity of my wallet.

steve

July 27th, 2012
12:01 pm

Vote NO! Why would you want to give the City of Atlanta the right to tell the rest of us what to do? They want to link us to MARTA and then run it themselves. We can see how that has worked out so far for them.
Read the wording of the T-SPLOST. There is NOT enough money to complete all of the projects they have listed. Can you see another T-SPLOST in the future? How does the Beltline and the Trolley relieve congestion on our roads? It doesn’t.

All of the national studies state that unless people live closer to their place of employment congestion will not go away. For years we have been moving further and further from downtown Atlanta making it a longer commute to Atlanta. But, look around the Perimeter. How many office parks do you see. Companies do not want to go downtown and fight the traffic, crime and costs associated with getting there (gas, parking).
As for Cobb county: explain to me how a train from the Cumberland area will relieve traffic when we won’t have the first car running for how many years? About 12.

VOTE NO and urge all those you know to do the same. The politicians are ready to line their pocketbooks with our money. And by the way, don’t forget the penny sales tax is a SEVENTEEN % increase not to mention you will now pay it on FOOD and OVER THE COUNTER MEDICINES>

THIS IS A BOONDOOGLE IN A DISGUISE. VOTE NO!!

Rightwing Troll

July 27th, 2012
12:01 pm

“#4 – It should be considered illegal that all of the BIG companies – C. W. Matthews, Yancey Bros., Vulcan Materials, etc. (who stand to gain millions from this) have jumped in and paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to support this campaign”

But… ahhh… they’re peoples too…

Dusty

July 27th, 2012
12:02 pm

Independent thinker, 11:52

What do you mean “do we want 25 lanes of traffic on I 75″?

Well, I was on I 75 last week and I’m sure there were 25 lanes of traffic. I was in lane 20 and hadn’t even hit the grass. Us motorists know how to compensate!! A pox on the bloxt!!

@@

July 27th, 2012
12:04 pm

I voted NO!

Why? I’ve been feelin’ put upon of late so I’m boycotting T-Splost.

Nameless

July 27th, 2012
12:05 pm

Voted NO last week at early voting.
Too much focus on transit with little traffic congestion relief. Too much community development/lifestyle projects in the Atlanta Beltline. Too much shoving it down our throats by the Chamber and developers. Too much political machinations by Governor Deal.
Legislators will start a new, more manageable list on August 1st, the day after this tax fails to pass. Vote again in two years and by then the tax may be worthwhile when it includes traffic congestion relief.

Don Abernethy

July 27th, 2012
12:08 pm

NO

@@

July 27th, 2012
12:08 pm

I did see the first commercial for T-Splost last night. Kasim Reed’s “Untie Atlanta” ad. “More jobs — Less Traffic”.

More jobs, less traffic? I’m not sure how that’s gonna work unless they’re pretty confident folks will opt for the cattle car transit.

Atlanta mooooooooooooo-ving forward.

Bruno

July 27th, 2012
12:09 pm

Obviously interests vary greatly by where we live. Outside of Atlanta, I don’t see any pressing need for massive investment in our road system. Infrastructure appears to be fine in Columbus, and traffic is minimal.

I am trying to reconcile the overwhelming support among the Libs here for this new tax with their disdain for sales tax in general since it disproportionately affects the poor. Wouldn’t it make more sense to increase gas taxes to fund these new projects??

In either case, a 1 cent increase in sales tax may sound innocuous, but it is 1% less money available to the average family to spend in other ways.

Dusty

July 27th, 2012
12:12 pm

@@ 12:04

You’ve been feeling “put upon”? It’s just the hot weather. Too hot to boycott.

But…. if you need any signs made, I’m handy with the magic markers and poster boards.

PrincessG

July 27th, 2012
12:14 pm

VOTING YES!!! Wife and Mother of two….look to the future people!

@@

July 27th, 2012
12:16 pm

This article was pretty interesting.

The Chicago Transit Authority Map of Economic Hardship

If you get on the Red Line “El” train in Chicago’s Lincoln Park neighborhood, the economy is booming. Per capita income is about $71,000 – nearly three times the city average. Only about 12 percent of households in the area are below the poverty line. Things are going well.

But just a handful of stops later, the neighborhood economy has drastically changed. If you got off that same Red Line train in the Fuller Park neighborhood just a few miles south of downtown Chicago, per capita income drops to just about $9,000, and more than 55 percent of households are under the poverty line.

Kinda reminds me of that documentary I watched on North Korea. China too.

55% under the poverty line, but HEY! They’ve got transit.

Lincoln Park? Isn’t that where Obama’s from?

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

July 27th, 2012
12:19 pm

Lincoln Park? Isn’t that where Obama’s from?

I thought it was Kenya.

@@

July 27th, 2012
12:19 pm

Dusty:

Actually, I’m feelin’ fortunate. Took my dog for a grooming and ended up with six quarts of figs for free.

I’m livin’ the good life.

Mr. Holmes

July 27th, 2012
12:19 pm

Vote NO! Why would you want to give the City of Atlanta the right to tell the rest of us what to do?

Is it worth it to point out that this is exactly what did NOT happen this time around? Probably the best thing about this referendum is it’s intended to apply regional solutions to regional problems. We’ve got most of the stakeholders in metro Atlanta transportation coming together to design some regional solutions.

Is it perfect? No. But I’m hearing way too many stock phrases and anti-government cliches on this thread. Bottom line for >half these folks is they don’t want to pay another penny sales tax. Why? Because __________________. That’s why.

@@

July 27th, 2012
12:21 pm

And I thought it was Hawaii. He’s definitely from a different mindset.

Nameless

July 27th, 2012
12:21 pm

@12:20 p.m. 122 No to 67 Yes (Atlanta Region)

Bruno

July 27th, 2012
12:22 pm

I vote no for no more TSplotch blog topics!

Reporter–I think you may get your wish next Wednesday.

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

July 27th, 2012
12:27 pm

And I thought it was Hawaii. He’s definitely from a different mindset.

Yes. He isn’t like those ” Real ” Americans.

You know because he is black.

Dusty

July 27th, 2012
12:28 pm

@@

Sounds like six quarts of fig preserves to me. Take that dog in every week.

My fig tree has lotsa figs, big ones, but something gets ‘em every time. The birds, the ants, and the raccoons \(on lower branches even the green ones) Maybe I don’t check out the tree often enough.

Have a yummy time!

Bruno

July 27th, 2012
12:28 pm

Let’s see. Topic? How about “Is Luckovich from Mars? Can’t we send him back?”

Dusty–My vote is for “Are Hawaiian Birth Certificates Worth the Paper They’re Printed On??”

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

July 27th, 2012
12:31 pm

Republicans in all their glory:

Fla. Republican: We wanted to suppress black votes
http://www.salon.com/2012/07/27/fla_republican_we_suppressed_black_votes/

southpaw

July 27th, 2012
12:31 pm

Aquagirl @11:29 – Maybe zeke went through the Lenox station on the way to somewhere else. I go from Five Points to Chamblee on my way to work, although I haven’t seen the same as zeke. Am I going at the wrong time? As for “clues,” sometimes an outfit is just too hard to miss. My wife and I saw that several years ago when we stayed downtown overnight. I won’t name the place we stayed, on the chance that I would be defaming a company that’s cleaned up its act, but not long after we got there, we were shocked to see what a woman was wearing while walking around outside. The only way I can describe her outfit is that it was clearly intended to be taken off–quickly. We haven’t been back to the place since.

I won’t be voting on Untie Atlanta, because I live in a different region (Northeast). After my wife and I talked it over, we decided to vote against T-SPLOST next Tuesday.

@@

July 27th, 2012
12:32 pm

Cheesy:

He’s black? And here I’ve been thinking he was bi-racial.

It’s the white liberal part of him that I don’t like.

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

July 27th, 2012
12:32 pm

Boy Romney sure is off to a good start on his overseas trip.

Here is hoping his million dollar horse wins a gold medal. Ann Romney will be so proud.

Hey then he can take the medal straight over to Switzerland and stash it with a lot of his money.

Dusty

July 27th, 2012
12:33 pm

Mr Holmes, 12:19

Dr. Watson and I are worried about you. You really don’t know that most people prefer to keep their earned money instead of giving it to the government?

Alas! The famous Holmes has “lost it”!!!

emo

July 27th, 2012
12:33 pm

Sorry, voting no. A sales tax is too regresssive for my taste, and I’m not at all persuaded that the projects will actually ease traffic congestion.

middle of the road

July 27th, 2012
12:36 pm

I don’t appreciate being asked to be a “donor county” – paying tax to support Atlanta’s problems. I rarely go to Atlanta and NONE of the projects will make a hill of beans difference to my visits. I have already voted NO
.The Ga 400 debacle was another reason for me to vote NO. I think it was for a lot of people.

If Atlanta wants to tax itself to build the Beltline to benefit Atlanta, it should do that and leave us surrounding counties alone.

There is a better solution to congestion: have growth and businesses relocate to the suburbs outside of Atlanta. Probably is a big reason why Caterpillar went to Athens rather than taking over the GM complex. Let Atlanta fester in its own crime-ridden, poor education state.

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

July 27th, 2012
12:40 pm

Fla. Republican: We wanted to suppress black votes
http://www.salon.com/2012/07/27/fla_republican_we_suppressed_black_votes/

White conservatives have been suppressing minority voters for years. They are pretty good at it too.

Dusty

July 27th, 2012
12:40 pm

CHEESY GRITS

Stop the propaganda perusal please. It is too early in the day to listen to canned comments.

Won’t the DNC pay you just for showing up? How much? Maybe we could match it and keep your comments on the excting interesting T-SPLOST instead of your usual unsubstaniated rumors about Romney.

jconservative

July 27th, 2012
12:41 pm

I live in a large county, area wise, with less than 15K people. The county owns no traffic signals. The county seat has two. The largest traffic jam I have seen in the last year was 5 cars at the local 4-way stop sign.

Our share of the tax is earmarked for two pet projects of the local government that they have been trying to get aproved for decades.

I know of no one voting yes on this tax.

If the state needs more money for infrastructure I suggest the governor and legislature belly up to the bar and raise the tax on gasoline and earmark the proceeds for infrastructure.

carlosgvv

July 27th, 2012
12:42 pm

Kyle – 11:58

No, Kyle, I don’t think the courts are in on any conspiracy. I DO think our Georgia politicians have a proven track record of dishonest behavior and will try, any way they can, to get around spending this tax money where it is targeted.

A large number of Georgians feel the way I do and it’s not logical to assume we’re all just paranoid. I believe a large political housecleaning is in order before we Georgians trust any more tax money to our politicians.

Bob

July 27th, 2012
12:47 pm

I am a former Army officer and tea party supporter and i am voting yes. We cant remain 48 out of 50 states in transportation spending any longer. We are slowly choking our economy to death while we kick the can down the road and do nothing. it is time to act!

weetamoe

July 27th, 2012
12:47 pm

I taught at 2 universities ITP and with a tech consulting company in a midtown loft and live just outside the Atl city limits and never found a way to use a transit combination that took less then an hour to reach my destination. I am not sure where I read this; it was about 6 mos ago, but according to the report even in places like Germany where the roads are first rate and in the UK where I myself used the tube most days, most people (about 70% or so) who must commute to work drive their own vehicles. It might be interesting to do some research on this.

@@

July 27th, 2012
12:50 pm

I live in a large county, area wise, with less than 15K people. The county owns no traffic signals. The county seat has two. The largest traffic jam I have seen in the last year was 5 cars at the local 4-way stop sign.

^^^ that’s what I call move-in ready!

A Realist

July 27th, 2012
12:51 pm

@Road
Yes, there were ‘hearings’ on GA400… but there was no referendum. The DOT wanted it… and only fine tuning was considered (and not necessarily acted upon.)
You are right that there were hearings though.

Dusty

July 27th, 2012
12:58 pm

Bruno, 12:28

I was having a mild anti-Luckovich spell after yesterday’s cartoon where he not only insulted Romney but also the British and Paul Revere

Now you really want to stir the pot. “Are Hawaian Birth Certificates Worth the Paper they are Rrinted on?” as a blog topic.

May be, Bruno. I believe those elite counterfeiters use the best of paper (made from pineapple). Kinda like those folks who printed up Bush’s military record only they forgot computers were not in use then.

No accusations here, of course. Just thinking of that old line,:”what a web they weave when first they practice to deceive”.

CobbGOPer

July 27th, 2012
1:01 pm

Already voted early in Cobb, and voted NO.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

July 27th, 2012
1:02 pm

CNN PRESIDENT RESIGNS

So should obozo.

Bruno

July 27th, 2012
1:02 pm

I was having a mild anti-Luckovich spell after yesterday’s cartoon where he not only insulted Romney but also the British and Paul Revere

Lucko-who??

Call me crazy, but I generally don’t spend much time patronizing people whose only purpose in life is to infuriate others.

Zekenya

July 27th, 2012
1:03 pm

I will vote no because I am retired, I drive less than 5K miles a year, and out where I live the road traffic’s not too bad. And I have zero need for MARTA or other public trans.

OTOH I understand why younger, more active citizens are willing to invest for the future. I just hate to see people saddle themselves with new taxes based on some vaporous government promises.

A Realist

July 27th, 2012
1:05 pm

@middle
Atlanta IS currently building the Beltline – it would be nice to have it extended further via the TSPLOST, and have some of it finished earlier than is currently scheduled. We ARE paying for it ourselves, and if anyone would really look at the plan, they might be amazed at how it will help make the core of the region healthier… but you have to read the plans! The TSPLOST expands the original scope of the Beltline with more connectivity and access. If the center of the region is healthier, the whole region benefits. After all, when you’re out of state, you don’t say you’re from the greater Stockbridge area do you? (not picking on Stockbridge… just picking a random community that is not likely to be recognized worldwide.)

If the ’surrounding counties’ don’t want to participate in being part of a metropolitan area, maybe we ought to put up toll booths/permits for when they want to enter town…sort of like they have in London.

confused young person

July 27th, 2012
1:09 pm

georgians spend the second lowest rate per capita on transportation of any state in the U.S. but somehow expects to be provided with and maintain their infrastructure inline with other states. where do these improvements come from? As population has grown, revenue from the gas tax has not due to more fuel efficient cars, etc. what we have is ‘making do with what we’ve got’ and its clearly not working. if you don’t care enough to invest in infrastructure improvements, why should your employer care enough to maintain your employment? Every single person in a region will benefit from at least 1 project on the list, of which your 1% tax would only pay for a small fraction of 1 project, to think that YOU personally are paying solely for improvements for other people (like the 1%) is ludicrous.

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

July 27th, 2012
1:09 pm

Romney sure did go over big overseas.

The Brits even have a new nickname for him.

Mitt the Twit.

Has a nice ring to it. I still am partial to Cheesy Grits however.

Russell Tripp

July 27th, 2012
1:11 pm

Already voted Yes. Let’s move forward. Neutral or reverse is unacceptable

Rightwing Troll

July 27th, 2012
1:11 pm

Maybe he’ll enjoy some of the Bloody Pudding?

Rightwing Troll

July 27th, 2012
1:13 pm

The fine state of Georgia has been stuck in reverse for years… that’s why we’re last on all the lists you don’t want to be last on, and first on all the lists you don’t want to be first on…

iggy

July 27th, 2012
1:14 pm

“The comments, if true (he is facing felony corruption charges and has an interest in scorning his party)”

Nice article Finn. Scorned policitican/employees are often truthful.

NEXT!

iggy

July 27th, 2012
1:15 pm

“Already voted Yes. Let’s move forward”

Moving forward, over the cliff, into quicksand, into the deep end, isnt necessarily a good thing.

NEXT!

@@

July 27th, 2012
1:15 pm

After all, when you’re out of state, you don’t say you’re from the greater Stockbridge area do you? (not picking on Stockbridge… just picking a random community that is not likely to be recognized worldwide.)

I always tell folks I’m from a county south of Atlanta. I WAS telling ‘em I was from Clayton County, south of Atlanta. Then Clayton County became nationally known, so now it’s just…

a county south of Atlanta.

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

July 27th, 2012
1:16 pm

Dow back over 13,000

You know for an economy supposedly in the dumps there sure are alot of people at Chili’s and Applebees when I drive by.

People still must have enough money for a quesadilla and maybe an order of loaded potato skins.

Road Scholar

July 27th, 2012
1:16 pm

A Realist: It was the only way at that time to fund it! Sure state and fed funds were used also, but the state could not afford to build it if it weren’t for the toll! It has been a success!

Next time you are sick, let’s float the question/cure out there to a referendum? I know it’s farfetched, but when will people trust the professionals? GDOT HAS been overrun by politics!

Don't Tread

July 27th, 2012
1:27 pm

I’m voting NO because “HELL NO” isn’t on the ballot. (There’s a couple of incumbents that will be getting the heave-ho too.)

And to complete the trifecta of issues, seems that a school voucher initiative and Sunday alcohol sales (finally) are on the ballot too. These get the YES vote.

Don't Tread

July 27th, 2012
1:29 pm

Oh, and the local Chick-Fil-A restaurant got the YES vote for lunch today. That place was insanely crowded, but still got my food in a reasonable amount of time.

Streetracer

July 27th, 2012
1:30 pm

I will vote NO. For various reasons. First, infrastructure is part of government’s basic functions. Should be paid for out of general tax revenue. Special taxes should be used to pay for those things over and above basic functions.

Jefferson

July 27th, 2012
1:33 pm

The GOP mindset is that of the Soviets, see where it got them.

JamVet

July 27th, 2012
1:33 pm

Confused faux conservatives debating T-SPLOST is about as exciting as a Romney campaign.

But hat tip to Dusty for unwittingly advertising on behalf of Luckovich.

Mitt the Twit, disliked by the Brits.

He’s unfit to lead.

And how the man can constantly get both feet in that mouth of his is truly amazing.

Must be the result of having a pretzel spine…

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

July 27th, 2012
1:34 pm

Oh, and the local Chick-Fil-A restaurant got the YES vote for lunch today.

The Cathys appreciate your business.

When does the next War on Christmas start ?

Seems to come earlier every year.

Jefferson

July 27th, 2012
1:34 pm

I suspect more yes votes don’t blog during working hours.

middle of the road

July 27th, 2012
1:37 pm

“After all, when you’re out of state, you don’t say you’re from the greater Stockbridge area do you?”

No, I tell them I’m from Canton, Georgia. I don’t say – I am from a north bedroom community of Atlanta (which we are not).

So you just want our monetary help so that you can expand and complete your Beltline quicker, right?

And I will benefit…how?

I would rather the State increase the gas tax and spend it on road projects that help the congestion. But the gas tax can’t be spent on MARTA or the Beltline, can it? That is why you want another source of income from our county.

Stevie Ray...Clowns to my Left and Jokers to my Right here I am....

July 27th, 2012
1:42 pm

Kyle,

I will only vote yes if the money goes into a trust within which the money MUST and CAN ONLY be spent on these projects….I suspect it goes into general funds and passes go so all corruptresentatives can drink from the trough….

middle of the road

July 27th, 2012
1:44 pm

“suspect more yes votes don’t blog during working hours.”

Actually I would suspect the opposite – NO voters can’t let their employers know that they are voting that way since atlanta employers support the YES and are expecting their employees to vote that way – or else.

Cherokee resident

July 27th, 2012
1:45 pm

Middle of road: Cherokee has a list showing the projects they will build with there portion of the proceeds and Canton has projects in there.

Gas tax increae?? Really? You oppose a %1 sales tax but support a $0.25/gal PERMENANT increase to whaterver projects GDOT wants to build? This tax is only 10 years, after that we vote on it again.

middle of the road

July 27th, 2012
1:46 pm

Are the proceeds from the $1.50 tax added to the purchase of new tires going to pay for old tire clean-up, like they were promised to be?

(crickets)

middle of the road

July 27th, 2012
1:48 pm

Cherokee Resident – yes, we get 15 cents on the dollar of our tax money back to Cherokee County – the rest goes to Atlanta. If WE need transportation projects in Cherokee, why can’t we do a Cherokee-only TSPLOST and keep ALL of the money in our county. Instead of being a donor county to Atlanta.

Rich

July 27th, 2012
1:51 pm

My problem is not the tax, it is that the list of project will not help resolve the problem.

middle of the road

July 27th, 2012
1:53 pm

“Gas tax increae?? Really? You oppose a %1 sales tax but support a $0.25/gal PERMENANT increase to whaterver projects GDOT wants to build? ”

Did I say anything about a $.25 gas tax increase? If there is not enough money for road construction and maintenance, then yes, the gas tax should be increased by the amount we need. As a percentage tax, the gas tax has continuously decreased since the 70’s. Heck, don’t INCREASE it, just make it a percentage so it doesn’t decrease with inflation, that would help some. Can you build the same mile of road now for what it cost in 1970?

Cherokee resident

July 27th, 2012
1:55 pm

middle: For me personally, I work in another county and use all of the metro area interstates weekly. I sit in the traffic and want something done, which this does. It’s better than sitting back and doing nothing. I’m not naive enough to think the goverments “all good” but in this case they’ve done the best they can to limit the scope for which the tax will be use for and provided oversight and an end date, along with the option to evaluate it for 10 years before we vote on it again. I don’t see how anyone can’t like that approach. It beats every other approach I’ve seen.

middle of the road

July 27th, 2012
1:57 pm

Do you remember when sales tax was 3%. Then we started adding. We have education SPLOSTS, and now they want a TSPOST. Our property taxes haven’t come down, they have increased. Our Georgia Income Tax has not decreased. So when they want to increase our sales tax by 15%, I am opposed. You say, “But it only means about $200 per year or $20 per month. Would you care if your property tax went up $200 this year? Would you care if you paid an additional $200 on the new car you bought? As Rich said above – if people thought it was going to a good cause, there would be no worries about it passing.

luangtom

July 27th, 2012
1:58 pm

I live in the NE of the state, not too far outside the perimeter. I will vote NO because I do not like the idea of so much of the funding going to MARTA when it will do me no good in my travel navigating around Atlanta. I have little need to go to anything in Atlanta. It is around Atlanta that will be my need. So, diverting funds to MARTA will not add to my project-list for getting around the city-proper. It will be a NO vote from this retiree.

Cherokee resident

July 27th, 2012
2:01 pm

luangton: MARTA will get about %10 of the money, not %52 as some organizations want to claim.

middle of the road

July 27th, 2012
2:02 pm

Cherokee Resident – “For me personally, I work in another county and use all of the metro area interstates weekly.”

And I am sure you are paying a lot of gasoline taxes to support roads. But you are REALLY naive if you think paying a 1% salkes tax so that ATLANTA can build a beltline will make YOUR commute any easier. Are you going to be able to ride the Beltline to your work? Are you even going to be able to take a MARTA train directly to a Braves Game (answer – no, because MARTA will never put rail up 75, and it doesn’t go to the stadium, anyway – that is why when I go to see the Braves, I drive, and this TSPLOST won’t help that drive one little bit).

Vote NO

July 27th, 2012
2:02 pm

The NAACP, the Tea Party, and the Sierra Club all say “NO”. That should tell you something.

Cherokee resident

July 27th, 2012
2:04 pm

Middle: “we get 15 cents on the dollar of our tax money back to Cherokee County – the rest goes to Atlanta”

Not true. There are 10 counties in our area. Not all of them include portions of Atlanta.

Cherokee resident

July 27th, 2012
2:05 pm

Vote NO – It tells me that it’s a middle of the road approach. None of the organizations you list think it’s scewed enough in their favor. Sounds good to me.

Cherokee resident

July 27th, 2012
2:06 pm

middle: I agree that the gas tax should be a precentage.

Sam

July 27th, 2012
2:06 pm

I’m voting YES!

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

July 27th, 2012
2:09 pm

Mitt the Twit?
Lol, workin’ that ferun pawlicee.

Cherokee resident

July 27th, 2012
2:10 pm

middle: “if you think paying a 1% salkes tax so that ATLANTA can build a beltline”

Have you seen the project list? That’s not the only one on there as you have eluded to several times.

BTW, this sales tax gets the tourist, the folks who use MARTA, and the people who ride buses to pay too. The gas tax dosen’t do that.

Old timer

July 27th, 2012
2:12 pm

Voted no…..I do not believe the list will make a dent in traffic and it is not the governments job to provide jobs…

Vote NO

July 27th, 2012
2:12 pm

Transportation Investment Act Return on Investment for DeKalb County estimated the TIA revenue generated is $1,017.2 million (just over one billion dollars); however, the direct investment will deliver approximately $556.8 million in DeKalb County. In other words, most of the money will benefit the City of Atlanta and results in a negative investment for the county as a whole. This will prove to be detrimental because the taxpayers and voters of DeKalb County will continue to pay the 1 percent tax for the operation and maintenance for MARTA. Once again, DeKalb County will pay 2 percent in transportation tax while the other counties pay one percent.
Transportation Investment Act Return on Investment for Fulton County estimated the TIA revenue generated is $1,237.6 million (just over 1.2 billion); however, the direct investment will deliver approximately $920.6 million within Fulton County. In other words, Fulton County will receive more of its money than DeKalb County; however, a large amount of funding will benefit the City of Atlanta.
Transportation Investment Act Return on Investment for the City of Atlanta estimated TIA revenue generated $914.7 million; however, the direct investments will deliver approximately $895.7 million within the City of Atlanta. In other words, the City of Atlanta will have the greatest gain from the TSPLOST because their investment will amount to over 2 billion ($2.156.5 million) dollars in return on investment overall. Compared to both DeKalb and Fulton County, the City of Atlanta stands to receive the greatest return on investment. However, will investing in the City of Atlanta solve our congestion/traffic problems?

Read more: CrossRoadsNews – entry Why Vote No on TSPLOST

@@

July 27th, 2012
2:16 pm

AmVet @ 1:33—Confused faux conservatives debating T-SPLOST is about as exciting as a Romney campaign.

Maybe AmVet could liven things up with your own personal take?

schnirt

AmVet on 7/13/2012—I have yet to decide on this T-SPLOST issue.

The fundamental question is will these projects pay dividends for the taxpayers and commuters?

A tough question to answer…

I left out your usual….neocons, faketriots, worst ever, blah

blah

http://blogs.ajc.com/kyle-wingfield/2012/07/13/taking-a-look-at-some-t-splost-claims/?cp=all#comment-127756

@@

July 27th, 2012
2:16 pm

with HIS own personal take.

middle of the road

July 27th, 2012
2:24 pm

“along with the option to evaluate it for 10 years before we vote on it again.”

IF they pass this tax, I can hear it now – ” We have had an 8% tax for the last 10 years, and now everyone is used to it. We haven’t solved any transportation problems, so we need to reauthorizer the tax to pay for more improvements ( or to pay for maintenance of our projects.” Trust me, if we authorize this increase, sales tax will NEVER go down. Do you know of ANY instance after a SPLOST ran out that it was not reauthorized?

@@

July 27th, 2012
2:27 pm

Lawd ah mercy! I just had a guy running for state house come to my front door. Said he was visiting all the residents in my area to seek our input. Super nice fella!

Told him I’d already cast my vote for him. He lit up like a Christmas tree. He’s running against a friend of mine.

@@

July 27th, 2012
2:29 pm

Do you know of ANY instance after a SPLOST ran out that it was not reauthorized?

Can’t think of one.

Cherokee resident

July 27th, 2012
2:29 pm

Vote No: Half truths with your figures there. The direct investment numbers you list are for projects WHOLLY contained within the municipality. You don’t provide figures for projects that are partially in those municipalities. Don’t those benefit their citizens also!

1.3 Billion partially in DeKalb
6 million partially Fulton
2.1 Billion partially in Atlanta

A lot of those benefiting figures and projects will overlap each other.

middle of the road

July 27th, 2012
2:29 pm

“Not true. There are 10 counties in our area. Not all of them include portions of Atlanta.”

That 10 county area is the “Atlanta REgion” so all of our sales tax goes to support the “Atlanta Region”, meaning Atlanta. If it were limited to counties that contain a portion of the city of Atlanta (Fulton and Dekalb), I wouldn’t have to vote on it – they could pay for their stuff themselves.

As far as the 10% that is going to MARTA – there is a simple way to raise that amount of money without TSPLOST – raise the fares.

Hillbilly D

July 27th, 2012
2:31 pm

It’s about whether you ultimately trust the rule of law to work.

A lot of us don’t, based on years of experience.

If approved, which I am not in favor of, ten years from now we will hear how it needs to be extended because the proposed project will not be done. Cost over runs and delays will be the reason.

That one you can take to the bank. By the way, when they were selling the original MARTA vote, all those years ago, it was supposed to be for 10 years, too.

How’s the weather in the mountains today? PLease say “cool” so I can dream I ‘m in the blue green havens of happy elevations and cool air..

I could say that but Mama always told me not to lie. It’s just plumb hot. The one saving grace is that we haven’t paved over everything (at least not yet), so we don’t have as much heat radiating off the asphalt and concrete. Ain’t progress grand?

On SPLOTS in general: Every time they try to get one passed up here, the local politicians and Chamber of Commerce always try to sell it by telling us that 75-80% of sales tax money that is collected, comes from out of the county, which is a complete damn lie.

(I just got back from early voting so I’m still a tad pissed over the lame people I had to choose from).

middle of the road

July 27th, 2012
2:32 pm

As far as the 10% that is going to MARTA – there is a simple way to raise that amount of money without TSPLOST – raise the fares.

But of course, that would affect ATLANTA’S POOR people – so us suburbs need to subsidize ATLANTA’s poor with our sales tax.

Tourists – where do tourists go, Cherokee County or Atlanta.

middle of the road

July 27th, 2012
2:35 pm

“BTW, this sales tax gets the tourist, the folks who use MARTA, and the people who ride buses to pay too.”

Tourists, yes – but MARTA and Bus fares don’t include sales tax or it is built in. Raise the fares and MARTA will make more money. Do you really think that the people who ride MARTA will go buy a car if the rate goes up from $2.50 to $3.00?

Cherokee resident

July 27th, 2012
2:35 pm

middle: Thanks to “Vote NO” I had to do some reseach and found the followingf info for Cherokee County.

TIA revenue generated 279.7M
Direct investment in Cherokee 268.5M
Partially within Cherokee 95M
Benefiting Cherokee residents and commuters 971M

Just looking at the direct and partial projects in Cherokee we are gaining over what we are paying out. Doesn’t look to me like we’re building the Atl beltline.

Cherokee resident

July 27th, 2012
2:37 pm

“but MARTA and Bus fares don’t include sales tax” correct, but they do buy goods at the stores.

Rick

July 27th, 2012
2:38 pm

Confused Young Person,

It is not that us “older” folks don’t want to invest in the infrastructure, it is the list of projects we are all being ask to support are not even close to being the ones we should be taking on.

Be careful about accepting the whole “hog”, just to get your 1%. That is the game being played, here. We have 99 major traffic problems, Cobb’s air traffic control tower, ain’t one of them. Every other county and city manages to pay for their own. If Cobb doesn’t want to, how about letting the private jet owners (those 1% ers) pay their own way? Atlanta’s trolley cars are going to be real cute, but I don’t want to pay for them. And, they slow traffic down in most cities. That is self defeating.

Cherokee resident

July 27th, 2012
2:39 pm

The people who ride MARTA buy goos at the stores whereas they don’t buy gas.

md

July 27th, 2012
2:39 pm

I vote for anybody making at least 50k a year to pay an additional 5% tax to pay for the improvements based solely on the assumption that they should have it compared to the all those only making 49k or less………..I think that is a definition of fair around here.

middle of the road

July 27th, 2012
2:39 pm

Cherokee Resident – you better send me a link to that information, I don’t believe it a minute. The “benefitting” part is just a bunch of BS about how their best estimates will shave 5.2 minutes off a Cherokee resident’s commute and he makes $20 per hour so he makes more money, but he doesn’t – he only gets 5.2 minutes extra sleep or family time. I just flat don’t believe the other numbers.

Rider Inman

July 27th, 2012
2:41 pm

I find it hilarious when ppl make the comment that transit won’t help them because they don’t take it/use it. It’s a simple mathematical word problem. For EVERY person that takes transit or some other alternative, that’s one less car off the road freeing up space for you and your gas guzzler. That kids, is called relieving congestion! It should be pretty simple to comprehend, but ppl seem to be to selfish to see the true impact. You get what you pay for and right now GA ain’t paying for much when it comes to investments in transportation. Out of the 50 states, we’re near the bottom. In order to have a healthy transportation system, ppl need to have options.

middle of the road

July 27th, 2012
2:42 pm

“Direct investment in Cherokee 268.5M”

That is probably to build a toll lane that to use you are going to have to pay for AGAIN.

@@

July 27th, 2012
2:42 pm

The people who ride MARTA buy goos at the stores

Shouldn’t that be Goo Goos?

Vote NO

July 27th, 2012
2:43 pm

“I just got back from early voting so I’m still a tad pissed over the lame people I had to choose from).”

You remind me of 2008.

Cherokee Resident: Those aren’t my figures so I probably shouldn’t have posted them. Did so to make the point that the City of Atlanta does seem to be getting a better deal than outlying counties but if you want to say otherwise, that would be ok by me. I am opposed to this plan because I really, really don’t think it will do much to take cars off the road, that a lot of the money and time will be wasted when we could have had a better plan. A long look at the project list tells me that and I am not surprised to see so many contracting companies pressing for passage of the this tax.

Cherokee resident

July 27th, 2012
2:44 pm

Here’s the list. It’s specific projects, not the mathmatical word problem.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/92194885/Transportation-Investment-Act-Return-on-Investment-for-County-City

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

July 27th, 2012
2:45 pm

• An amazing 64 percent of the 4.4 million employees on the federal payroll are either uniformed military personnel or work for Defense, Veterans Affairs and Homeland Security. The U.S. defense budget is “greater than the combined defense budgets of the next 17 largest spenders.”

You cons still want to shrink government?

@@

July 27th, 2012
2:45 pm

Oops!

Shouldn’t that be Goo Goo Clusters?

Not familiar with the junk food.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

July 27th, 2012
2:46 pm

oops, here is the source:

“Red Ink” by David Wessel, economics editor for the Wall Street Journal

Hillbilly D

July 27th, 2012
2:47 pm

You remind me of 2008.

I wasn’t happy about that bunch either and I’m even less happy with them, since some of them got elected and have had 4 years to bless us with their presence in office.

Hillbilly D

July 27th, 2012
2:49 pm

@@

They could be talking about these folks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaP6rJIdzFM

JamVet

July 27th, 2012
2:50 pm

Looks like my obsessed one still hasn’t quit me.

She never will.

Schnort.

Hang on my every word, lil’ darlin’.

It’s what you do!

Vote NO

July 27th, 2012
2:50 pm

Could some conservative please respond to this “McCool” before he blows his trolling gasket.

md

July 27th, 2012
2:51 pm

” For EVERY person that takes transit or some other alternative, that’s one less car off the road freeing up space for you and your gas guzzler.”

In true math form yes…in reality, no. As more start riding transit and traffic begins to lessen invariably those that didn’t really want to be using transit in the first place figure it’s time to get back on the road since all those “others” are now using transit.

It’s a circle/cycle.

@@

July 27th, 2012
2:54 pm

Hillbilly:

Frenchmen?

AmVet:

A bit embarrassed with what you brought to the debate, are ‘ya?

Can’t say as I blame ‘ya.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

July 27th, 2012
2:59 pm

“McCool” before he blows his trolling gasket.

I don’t read responses from “you people”.

oldfart

July 27th, 2012
3:02 pm

I attended a public meeting arranged by GDOT regarding the I-85 HOT lanes in which I would estimate that approximately 85% were against its implementation (can’t say construction as it already existed). $100 million was spent anyway on signs and sensors and it was opened to a fanfare of protest and promptly clogged the general flow further.

I attended what was advertised as a “Town Hall” meeting to discuss the HOT lanes with GDOT and SRTA reps also attending to field questions. Upon arriving found it was a Gwinnett Republican speechfest in which the “Town” was not allowed to speak. GDOT was lobbed some chosen softball questions and anyone wanting to followup with questions were invited to LEAVE. GDOT and SRTA declined to attend a true town hall meeting setup by opponents of the HOT lanes along with 2 state senators at the Gwinnett Courthouse and including a stated agenda and rules of order. I then decided I would attend a meeting in Hall County that had been arranged months in advance for Gena Evans, Ex. Director of SRTA, to address and field questions from the business community of which I am a member. Fearing negative feedback she cancelled said appearance.

Why would I want to attend further public hearings hosted by GDOT when it seems no one is hearing? Why do I get angered when I see ads telling me that if TSPLOST is not approved that there will be more toll roads when the projects for more HOT lanes are already underway and planned to the tune of $10 Billion with absolutely NOTHING in the TSPLOST proposal that promises to rescind these toll roads? Why is a sales tax on EVERYTHING including groceries considered the most equitable way to fund transportation when a portion of the gas tax still goes to the general fund?

Rider Inman

July 27th, 2012
3:07 pm

md,

That’s not entirely true. There have been studies/surveys done on commuters in the Atlanta region that show once a commuter starts taking a commute alternative, more than 64% continue to use that alternative in the future. Some may go back to SOV life, but more than half continue to use it because they realize 1. it’s not as bad as some imagine it to be (crime, robbing, homeless) and 2. it saves them $. I don’t think the vast majority of the population understands how much they truly are paying to be dependent on personal automobile transport. Most of the time, it’s the avg family’s 2nd highest expense.

Jefferson

July 27th, 2012
3:08 pm

Tightwads are NEVER happy people.

A Realist

July 27th, 2012
3:11 pm

VoteNo Guy:
OK, so Atlanta gets a bit chunk. Atlanta also has to deal with more congestion than any other area in this region… including the associated wear&tear, pollution, litter, and noise. Somehow I don’t think you consider anyone lives there…. LOTS of people live in Atlanta. We have to deal with all those stinkin’ cars from other communities every day… EVERY day. Why do so many people want to USE Atlanta, and not even begin to pay for anything from which they benefit?

All these cut&paste articles against the TIA seem to come from the same falsehood creation machine. The organizations that have been supporting the TIA seem to have put out lots of facts, and the naysayers are making lots ‘o stuff up. (granted… I’ll agree about our crooked politicians!)

There is direct investment in the projects, and there is also the associated return on infrastructure improvement. The latter will benefit everyone, many times over.

JamVet

July 27th, 2012
3:12 pm

I’m embarrassed that I’m conversing with you.

But it’s OK, when in Rome do as the banished Romans, right?

Schnort.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

July 27th, 2012
3:14 pm

I have to agree with Rider. Once people get set in their ways they are difficult to change. You get used to riding the bus or the train and your week runs like clockwork for at least the commuting part of it – and who doesn’t want the more annoying parts of one’s day to pass with as little headache/stress as possible.

Not everyone will be slyly calculating to see how they can get an edge on everyone else by perfectly timing their jump back into driving on the highway.

Courtney

July 27th, 2012
3:19 pm

Voting NO until the DOT takes down the HOT lanes and puts back the HOV lanes. The DOT is making things worse and not better. Why give them more money?

jose

July 27th, 2012
3:19 pm

I have lived and worked in three major U.S cities. I have never before seen 1) traffic issues like ATL and even worse, 2) such extreme apathy from policy makers about what to about it. On one hand, I think TSPLOST is one big punt by state government who is responsible in every other state in the union for addressing transportation issues. Sadly, they won’t do anything so I am reluctantly forced to SUPPORT it because we have to do something, anything!!!

@@

July 27th, 2012
3:20 pm

And spendthrifts are impulsive buyers. It’s always that next purchase that’s gonna make ‘em happy. They usually go into debt trying to buy happiness.

Rick

July 27th, 2012
3:25 pm

Long ago, when I was much, much younger, I attended 10 and 20 year GDOT “Town Hall” meetings, where often only 3 people attending represented the general public (and they all came in my car!). Everyone else there were generally people who had a vested interest in the construction projects being proposed. From GDOT, and their paid consultants, all you heard was gross exaggerations about the financial benefits, that a simple informal audit or GOOGLE search could blow apart in a matter of minutes. Open records request showed the “data” used in the study were from verbal estimates given by those again, who personally and financially benefitting from the very projects being proposed. How ludicrous!

I was bullied and even threatened by GDOT management because I had the audacity to make an audio recording of the meeting: “Do you UNDERSTAND you could be breaking the law?”

Needless to say, as a former activist, I am not impressed with how government (local and state) processes the public’s concerns or needs. Money talks, but the rest of us can walk: VOTE NO this Tuesday.

gm

July 27th, 2012
3:26 pm

Do Dekalb county really need more buses in a over crowed county? Why should the people in dekalb pay 2 cents when the other counties ride the Marta and will only pay 1 cent?

md

July 27th, 2012
3:31 pm

” 2. it saves them $. I don’t think the vast majority of the population understands how much they truly are paying to be dependent on personal automobile transport.”

I think the question for suburbanites comes down to convenience…..no different than paying the extra cost of the gallon of milk from the quicky store vs going “all the way” to the grocery store.

Nothing worse than to take transit into town and then have something not planned come up…an emergency, general change of plans, or the pure spontaneity of doing something out of the ordinary. And as I’ve mentioned many times before, it depends on where folks are coming from. If one can’t access transit until half way through their commute, it makes no sense many times to use it…..it’s just as easy to stay in the car vs the other headaches of using transit.

md

July 27th, 2012
3:33 pm

“2) such extreme apathy from policy makers about what to about it.”

That’s a false flag. I’ve watched the atl grow from 2 lane roads to the mega hwy system now in place. That non-apathy has been building roads non-stop for 40 years………

Majic Mike

July 27th, 2012
3:33 pm

I would rather drive down GA400 if it was a gravel road then to give those crooks any more money.

WAW

July 27th, 2012
3:34 pm

I don’t vote against myself. I don’t care if it’s (R) or (D), I will not vote against me. That said, I will not vote to lower my Wednesday 5% discount at Kroger to 4%. All the Legislature had to do was raise the Gasoline Tax to whatever but since they have all signed THE PLEDGE to shirk their duties as directed by their owners, they came up with a way to tax my groceries. So I voted against it already.

Vote No

July 27th, 2012
3:36 pm

A Realist Guy: I’ve conceded the point about the City of Atlanta. My concerns are about the list and how I believe the projects included do a poor job of taking cars off the road. I live in the city, too and would support a plan B.

md

July 27th, 2012
3:37 pm

“Why do so many people want to USE Atlanta, and not even begin to pay for anything from which they benefit?”

Typical little picture view…..you really think it is only atlanta residents using the restaurants, stores, filling up at the gas stations, paying the hotel tax, spending money at ball games/aquarium/coke/etc…..really??

That’s an awful lot of money “those people” pour into your community…….and let’s not forget the main driver located to the south called the airport………

1961_Xer

July 27th, 2012
3:38 pm

I am not in the Atlanta region. I am in the Ga Mountains region, and I will be voting “Yes”, and here is why:

Two roads that I use extensively… one in Forsyth (GA 400 between exits 12 and 14) and one in Hall/Lumpkin (GA 60 between Dahlonega and Gainesville) are on the list for widening. Were it not for these two roads, I would vote “No”. My county will essentially be a “donor” county for Hall and Forsyth for 10 years.

Jefferson

July 27th, 2012
3:39 pm

You folks don’t trust the GOP leaders you keep electing, who is the dummy here ?

Up Up and Away

July 27th, 2012
3:42 pm

“You folks don’t trust the GOP leaders you keep electing, who is the dummy here ?”

ding ding ding

we have a winner

md

July 27th, 2012
3:42 pm

And by the way, that airport is run by the city of atlanta while also being located in Clayton county and the cities of Hapeville and College Park. Atlanta has been taking a disproportionate amount for years, so you might not want to go there with that little picture view.

@@

July 27th, 2012
3:50 pm

Don Grantham, Georgia Department of Transportation District 10 representative, said the Augusta area needs to pass the transportation referendum if it expects much needed improvements.

Of GDOT’s budget, about 97 percent comes from the state’s fuel tax. Fuel tax money is often not returned to all areas of the state, he said.

He probably shouldn’t ah said that.

“We don’t want our money to go to Atlanta. We want our money to stay right here,” he said. “I call it the people’s bill. You get to collect it and you get to know how it’s spent.”–Augusta Chronicle

Or that.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

July 27th, 2012
3:52 pm

‘Homeland’ video gives tips to survive a shooter…

http://www.ruger.com/products/lc9/specSheets/3200.html

Aahhh, just kidding. They didn’t really post that.

This is what they did link to-

Obama Waving the White Surrender Flag Womens Shirt

Streetracer

July 27th, 2012
3:54 pm

I will say again, as I have many times before, infrastructure is intregral to the basic functions of government. Why do we need a special tax to fund it? Shouldn’t infrastructure take precedence over public art at the airport, for example?

That being said, the project list impacts me in no way whatsoever.

Thomas Heyward Jr.

July 27th, 2012
3:57 pm

Not only No …but h#ll no.
Furthermore……….if anybody at the GDOT complains………fire’em…There’s plenty of normal people needing a job, and they’ll probably do it better AND cheaper.
.
And also…..from perusing their website, I can see MUCH fat to be trimmed.
Get rid of those BS Human Resourse and EEOC positions/divisions.
Get rid of those BS wildflower and tree-planting programs.
.
And stop with the million dollar studies.
sheesh.
Government boneheads.
.
My reps will be hearing the same thing.

Rider Inman

July 27th, 2012
3:58 pm

md,

Once again, just cause it doesn’t work for you doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be invested in. If it was built up/expanded so it was available for more commuters, than more ppl could/would use it leaving more road for you and your excuses. If convience means drving alone in a car bumper to bumper for an hour plus to go 25 miles, than so be it…I’ll stick with the “head ache of using transit”.

jose

July 27th, 2012
3:58 pm

md: they can’t build fast enough and are now facing the costs of maintaining the roads they built. The connector cannot be wider and we have, as a state, spent millions in repaving it to overcome wear and tear.

VOTE YES!

July 27th, 2012
3:59 pm

If you vote no and want a higher fuel tax and toll roads keep in mind that money will not be audited and reviewed by citizens like the TSPLOST money will.

Vote YES!

VOTE YES!

July 27th, 2012
3:59 pm

And it will cost you more than 1%

Jefferson

July 27th, 2012
4:05 pm

As they say in the cop business, every now & then you have to shoot an innocent man just to prove a point… keep voting the same way and the politicians think they are bulletproof.

oldfart

July 27th, 2012
4:17 pm

A VOTE YES! means more toll roads just the same as a vote of no. The $10+ Billion in HOT lane expenditures go forward even if TSPLOST passes. Lanes that will not pay for themselves at the current rates until your grandchildren are commuting, if then. Lanes that even GDOT admits do nothing to alleviate overall traffic flow tie ups.

Lets redirect the 25% of the state sales tax on gas being diverted to the general fund to transportation before we talk about a need for hiking the gas tax.

A Realist

July 27th, 2012
4:21 pm

md
The tiny amount of revenue from sales taxes from folks out of town hardly pays for much.
Let’s assume you spend 10K a year in the city, that means you drop a whopping $200 to help cover city expenses. (1 cent schools, 1 cent sewer). That doesn’t cover a whole lot. Would that cover the APD expense for one traffic accident? Hardly.

Most of the folks I know that live out of town, don’t fill up at intown stations, and only eat an occasional lunch intown.
It is really a small amount of money visitors trickle into the community. (and where is that hotel tax going to go now? Don’t get me off on that… ugh …)

And, BTW, the airport contributes NOTHING (zero) to the city budget. All revenue from the airport, stays at the airport.

Jefferson

July 27th, 2012
4:25 pm

The businesses support the tax because they don’t want to pay their fair share of doing business, and bought the legislators.

n

July 27th, 2012
4:26 pm

Here’s a Plan B:
Raise the gas tax.
Amend the state constitution to provide that the gas tax can fund ALL transportation options, including transit.
Force the politicians to do their jobs and quit hiding behind the altar of Grover Norquist.

A Realist

July 27th, 2012
4:27 pm

md….
I did make a bit of a mistake – you would probably pay about 5 cents, on the dollar to Atlanta (too much trouble to get the exact amount). That would mean on the 10K expense, you would pay about $500 toward the city. Still pretty small considering the drain on the intown infrastructure.

A Realist

July 27th, 2012
4:28 pm

n
I love it!
Now all we have to do is wait for that very, very cold day…..

Dr. No

July 27th, 2012
4:30 pm

This T-SPLOST SUX !

NO !

bu2

July 27th, 2012
4:41 pm

No.

Plan A is spend $7 billion with little effect on transportation and a failure to deal with basic problems.
Then in 10 years shut everything down because there is no funding for the $74 million in extra maintenance and the continued deferred maintenance in MARTA.
Another referendum will never pass again if this passes because the 1st will accomplish next to nothing. In some corridors it will actually make traffic worse.
Its a bunch of toy trains to line the pockets of real estate developers, engineering firms (why do we need $100 million! to study Gwinnet rail?) and construction companies instead of a coherent plan with transit that is useful and roads where needed.

n

July 27th, 2012
4:49 pm

Note to corporate bigwigs and craven politicians:
More asphalt will not improve GA or attract business, if we continue to be at the bottom of every list of desirable features and/or attractive places to live; and a leader in all things bad, such as bank failures, foreclosures, unemployment rates, environmental malfeasance, ethics challenges, drop-out rates, etc., etc.
Pour your millions into those issues, not asphalt.

Jack

July 27th, 2012
4:51 pm

I voted no about an hour ago. I’l vote no for any tax increase on a ballot.

GPollard

July 27th, 2012
4:53 pm

I voted early and I voted YESi Quit being selfish ppl! Its about the future and wellbeing of those that come behind us!

Hillbilly D

July 27th, 2012
4:56 pm

one in Hall/Lumpkin (GA 60 between Dahlonega and Gainesville) are on the list for widening.

That’s not entirely correct. It’ll be widened from the end of 400 to the Hall County line, creating a bottleneck at each end.

A Realist

July 27th, 2012
5:05 pm

Hmmmm,
Those ‘toy trains’ seem to get lots of folks around quite nicely all around the world.
I wonder why they wouldn’t work here. Maybe it’s just an education thing, or a serious lack thereof.
Or maybe it’s the seriously sprawled communities that require huge expenses to provide efficient services over the long distances to sparsely populated areas.

Vote No

July 27th, 2012
5:09 pm

This plan is seriously lacking in trains, toy or otherwise. Education is in the reading of the project list.

How Inciteful Is That!

July 27th, 2012
5:10 pm

Raise the gas tax to pay for roads. Put in more toll roads to pay for more roads. Don’t tax food and medicine to pay for roads. Unless you support paying for things with a Fair Tax. Then, you should support TSPLOST because it is a Fair Tax because it is a consumption tax. Vote yes for a Fair Tax or vote no for something else. Just vote.

md

July 27th, 2012
5:11 pm

“Once again, just cause it doesn’t work for you doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be invested in. If it was built up/expanded so it was available for more commuters, than more ppl could/would use it leaving more road for you and your excuses. If convience means drving alone in a car bumper to bumper for an hour plus to go 25 miles, than so be it…I’ll stick with the “head ache of using transit”.”

I’m merely playing devil’s advocate……I fixed my traffic problem several years ago when I made the choice to get the heck out……but, those “excuses” were quite relevant. I quit using marta back in the 90’s after replacing my back window and radio for the second time and was told “too bad, so sad….we can’t help you”.

catlady

July 27th, 2012
5:12 pm

Vote NO on ALL SPLOSTS from now on. NO to all “Constitutional amendments”. All these just enrich the connected.

Hillbilly D

July 27th, 2012
5:20 pm

catlady @ 5:12

You and I think just alike, at least on that issue.

How Inciteful Is That!

July 27th, 2012
5:32 pm

All these just enrich the connected.

I hear that they enrich the job creators, much like tax cuts do. Don’t you want the job creators to be able to afford to create jobs.

Old Timer

July 27th, 2012
5:36 pm

It is time for the Capitol genius to go back to the drawing board. This SPLOST would benefit the Atlanta District at the expense of the other districts. Unfortunatley this was not a stand alone district thing which some advertising would make you think it was.. Other districts could be penalized to pay if they did not even vote Yes on it. The Capitol boys are slick with words.

A dad

July 27th, 2012
5:36 pm

I will be voting NO for several reasons, but primarily, because I just don’t trust, or believe, Georgia’s elected officials. I pay (still) the GA 400 toll. It was supposed to come off when the road was paid for, but our politicians got to used to that pork and decided to keep it. Deal has said it will come off next year, but he doesn’t have the final say so. Anyone wanna bet how the Dept of Transp will vote on it? Georgia is probably the most corrupt state I’ve lived in out of 14, and the level of blatant cronyism here is staggering. Projects awarded to political cronies at “x” only to see massive cost overruns becuase the winning “bid” was so inadequate to ensure the award was received. And we are supposed to trust these bozos? I say no, and by voting against SPLOST, and also voting against every incumbent come November regardless of political affiliation (lets’ face it, R or D, they all stink) is my small contirbution to a revolution to begin taking our gov’t, and out country, back

Michael H. Smith

July 27th, 2012
5:40 pm

Same as before Kyle. I’ll be glad when this tax is finally defeated, I’m tired of hearing about it. Worse, I’m beyond tired of ALL THE DAMN LIES THE BACKERS OF THIS SHAM-PORTATION REFERENDUM ARE TELLING PEOPLE.

PLEASE, PLEASE, VOTE NO!

538

July 27th, 2012
5:45 pm

“Growth at this rate would ordinarily make a president’s re-election prospects extremely tenuous: probably about 50-50, according to our model and others.”

“The reason our economic index sees Mr. Obama as a very modest favorite for re-election is because it also considers inflation, which is assigned 15 percent of the weight. And inflation has been very low.”

“Imagine the counterfactual: that on top of all the other problems in the economy, we also had, say 6 percent inflation. Then gas might cost $4.75 a gallon, and you’d notice the change in prices pretty frequently when you went to the grocery store. Under those circumstances, our model would have Mr. Obama as an underdog.”

At least Bernanke’s good for something.

md

July 27th, 2012
5:49 pm

“And, BTW, the airport contributes NOTHING (zero) to the city budget. All revenue from the airport, stays at the airport.”

No it doesn’t….the City gets millions in tax revenue every year from the airport……as do other cities involved, counties and the State.

Samantha

July 27th, 2012
6:07 pm

I am voting no.

I am not aginst the ida of a tax and not against the idea of a sales tax. While I doubt the competence of the various governments to manage our money well, I would swallow that concern except…
This is the wrong project list…it’s not off by a little…it’s off by a mile. In 20 years when this SPLOST is finished these projects will help us get to where the jobs used to be, but not to where they will be then. This TSPLOST is an attempt to hold onto the past, not one to move into the future.
If Reed and the other politicans had focused on TRAFFIC in building the project list and not “development” or some other pet agenda, we migh have a solution that could win a majority of the votes.
I dont’ think this dog will hunt.

Hillbilly D

July 27th, 2012
6:11 pm

If Reed and the other politicans had focused on TRAFFIC in building the project list and not “development” or some other pet agenda,

That’s what they always focus on. Look at the county commission for just about any county in North Georgia and it’s made up of people who make their living through real estate and development. Most city councils are similar.

md

July 27th, 2012
6:14 pm

“The tiny amount of revenue from sales taxes from folks out of town hardly pays for much.”

And again, that’s the little picture view again. Tax is but one element in the equation. Think a bit bigger in terms of total dollar amount. Those folks coming into the city provide “jobs”……and those city jobs lead to more taxes for the city. Most folks living in the city probably owe their jobs to those from outside the city…..I doubt the actual population of 400k could sustain all those jobs on it’s own.

scotty

July 27th, 2012
7:08 pm

I heard recently that one of our laws called Joshua’s Law – which added a charge to tickets – that money was supposed to be used for Driver’s Education. So far they have collected $57 million. However ONLY $7 million has gone to the intended purpose. The money has ended up in the state’s general fund.

So the question is do WE REALLY TRUST our elected state officials to spend the T-Splost money the way they are supposed to?

People need to vote carefully …

@@

July 27th, 2012
7:13 pm

Are we up?

@@

July 27th, 2012
7:18 pm

Oh ma-a-a-a-aaan!

Just wanted to get one of those thru.

Sue

July 27th, 2012
7:20 pm

The round table meeting for public debate were arranged with pre determined outcomes. Something akin to “Do you want us to lop off your right arm or your left arm?” If you said neither, you were labeled as a trouble maker.

The “Transportation Investment Act, HB 277″ which created this fiasco is a law. It can be changed or repealed with a simple majority of both houses of the legislature and the Governor’s signature or inaction. That does not make it sealed in stone.

Plans for this go out to 2040 or even 2050. If the law is not amended, they will come back again and again for more money for the economic redevelopment of Atlanta (Beltline) and more funding for the already failed MARTA.

It’s your money. I vote NO!!!

bu2

July 27th, 2012
9:48 pm

@realist
Have you been in other cities around the world? Do you have any concept how much more dense they are than Atlanta? Atlanta is significantly less dense than Dallas or Houston or any other major city in the country, let alone the world. And in those other cities around the world, they often have real trains, like MARTA as the backbone. And the big cities like Paris, London and Rome don’t have any toy trains running around on the streets. Atlanta can’t support rail everywhere and can’t support the existing cars on its local arterial streets, let alone adding more from the increased density. Since 4% use mass transit now, its ridiculous to assume 100% of new residents will use mass transit. Even if the Beltline were successful in massively stimulating development (which it will do next to nothing for the next 10 years since Atlanta is so overbuilt), it would start driving people and jobs out of the city by creating gridlock with the extra people. Even the AJC has already fled OTP to Dunwoody.

Its just the wrong plan and will decimate MARTA’s existing rail and bus service by taking resources for marginal toy train projects.

Jim

July 28th, 2012
8:37 am

I’m voting YES. The Atlanta transportation system of roads, buses and trains was designed for a 2 million person metro area … Atlanta is now 5+ million people, and it’s easy to see the transportation infrastructure is overloaded. I think everyone sees that. The question is How do we fund the needed improvements?

Some say that funding should only come from those who use highways and that it’s unfair to tax those that don’t use them. That’s short-sighted. For example, the prices for items at the grocery store (that everyone goes to) are determined in large part by the cost of transporting them to the store. Better transportation means lower prices … for all.

Big numbers have been thrown around on both sides of the issue. Let’s look at the real cost to people. The average person spends about $15000 a year on items that the TSPLOST applies to. The 1% TSPLOST means the average person will contribute $150 a year. Is that too much to ask to help make Atlanta the vibrant community it can, and should, be?

Everyone benefits from better transportation. And that’s why I’m voting YES.

CHICK-FIL-A: Biters of Chicken, Not Pillows

July 28th, 2012
10:45 am

Everyone who proposed the T-SPLOST idea and are campaign for it are lying crooks who will eventually wind up in prison.

Rick

July 28th, 2012
11:20 am

md@5:48 pm

“And, BTW, the airport contributes NOTHING (zero) to the city budget. All revenue from the airport, stays at the airport.”

No it doesn’t….the City gets millions in tax revenue every year from the airport……as do other cities involved, counties and the State.

md, while your response might be accurate, your implied premise is false. The FAA grant assurances don’t allow net income from airport operations to go into the taxpayer general fund. It does have to “stay” at the airport, hence you see the cash strapped City of Atlanta willing to pay 4 million dollars for art for a hallway at the airport. Rich airports like Atlanta have money to burn, and where there is money to burn corruption runs rampant.

There have been countless studies showing that the real estate property at airports, which which are commonly zoned commercial and heavy industrial, would bring in must more, net taxes and revenues, to the cities or counties where they sit, if they were used for other purposes, like industrial parks, even plain residential . When you add, unreimbursed administrative cost that taxpayers bear, off the books, to run the general aviations airports, they can and most often are real financial drags to those governments.

JohnnyReb

July 28th, 2012
1:19 pm

Want an indicator if just how serious your government fathers are on reducing traffic congestion in Atlanta?

Look no further than the traffic taking the HOV entrance/exits – there is not any. Then look at the backup at the other entrance/exit going to the same place – full, lane backed up trying to get on/off the Interstate.

It would cost little to change the HOV entrance/exits so that all can use them.

Throwing more money wildly at traffic problems when common sense is not in the equation is a Moonbat trait. Every Republican supporting TSPLOST should hang his/her head in shame.

Vote NO on TSPLOST – send the message.

Hevad

July 28th, 2012
1:32 pm

I read in the AJC that citizens had input to the TSPLOST list, I was on one of those so called citizens input calls. There is no Freedom of Speech in Atlanta metro, every meeting of the governemnt you must tell what you are going to say, be monitored, or be ignored. If your comment is not with the issue you are just not allowed to voice it. Everything is pre-censored. If you were on this call you know the censoring happened. You know that on a telephone townhall meeting in GA there is now freedom to say what you really think of an issue. Your AJC Politifact got it wrong, ther was no real citizen input to the TSPLOST, only politicians and developers …dreams. This is not for the good of the people, but as usual, for the good of the few.

Hevad

July 28th, 2012
1:36 pm

Vote NO on TSPLOST, please.do not let the few, the 1 percent decide what we want. For the people, by the people… where did you go

Hevad

July 28th, 2012
3:20 pm

We need meaningful ‘dialogue’ in governemnt with the citizens. There has been no dialogue on this TSPLOST only a one way politician/developer mandate to the citizens. Any who call the ‘telephone townhall meetings’ meaningfull dialogue were not there. Very few got to say anything and when you were waved offf, rebute nothing. That is governement in GA. Either agree with the politico’s or be ignored, censored or worse. Ethic’s in politics is definetly an oxy… its always let the politicians regulate themselves, you have got to be kidding. Like the one in state government that says we can regulate ourselves on ‘ethics’ we do not need oversight. Uh, uh

Kelly

July 29th, 2012
4:56 am

The whole is a pretty nice wholesale nfl jerseys. http://www.jerseystribes.com/

Nameless

July 29th, 2012
4:11 pm

312 NO to 203 YES and 25 UNSURE as of this posting. It will be interesting to see if the actual percentages on Tuesday evening reflects the unscientific results here. It’s approximately a61N/39Y% split of those who are sure of their vote.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

July 29th, 2012
8:08 pm

test

Imagine my surprise that Kam was able to find it on it’s own.

Now, go find a service that totes Americans to India, hahahahahahaha, what a bunch of klowns you are.

TEST

July 31st, 2012
11:11 am

OASI
DI
HI
SMI
Assets (end of 2010)
$2429.0
$179.9
$271.9
$72.1
Income during 2011
698.8
106.3
228.9
301.0
Outgo during 2011
603.8
132.3
256.7
292.5
Net increase in assets
95.0
-26.1
-27.7
8.6
Assets (end of 2011)
2524.1
153.9
244.2
80.7

TEST

July 31st, 2012
11:13 am

OASI

DI

HI

SMI

Assets(endof2010)

$2,429.0

$179.9

$271.9

$72.1

Incomeduring2011

698.8

106.3

228.9

301.0

Outgoduring2011

603.8

132.3

256.7

292.5

Netincreaseinassets

95.0

-26.1

-27.7

8.6

Assets(endof2011)

2,524.1

153.9

244.2

80.7

Poll Position: What’s your vote on the T-SPLOST?

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Poll Position: What’s your vote on the T-SPLOST?

260 comments Add your comment

About Kyle Wingfield

Search this blog

Recent Posts

Archives

More from the AJC

Search by blog topic

Blogroll

Guidelines for this blog

My special series on MARTA

All AJC blogs »

Tell us what you think about the site

Subscribe »

Customer Care »

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Other Editions

Guides

Affiliates

Advertising

AJC Sites