Poll Position: What’s your vote on the T-SPLOST?
OK, folks, it’s once again time to declare.
If you live in metro Atlanta, what is your vote on the T-SPLOST?
- No (350 Votes)
- Yes (215 Votes)
- Still unsure (27 Votes)
Total Voters: 592
Loading ...Tuesday is T-SPLOST day across the state, and by late Tuesday/very early Wednesday we should know whether it passed in any of the state’s 12 regions, including the 10 counties of metro Atlanta.
If you’re not up to speed on what this is about, well, I can only assume you don’t live in Georgia and/or have just been released from several months of solitary confinement. I don’t have much more to say about it that I haven’t said in the past: see here and here for the many pieces I’ve written about T-SPLOST.
If you don’t want my opinion, check out the AJC’s compilation of reporting about what the 10-year, $7.2 billion sales tax would mean for transportation infrastructure and traffic relief in metro Atlanta.
If you live elsewhere in Georgia, what is your vote on the T-SPLOST?
- No (167 Votes)
- Yes (67 Votes)
- Still unsure (6 Votes)
Total Voters: 240
Loading ...So, vote in the nearby polls. Yes, polls — plural. I’m posting one poll for those who live in metro Atlanta, and another for those who live anywhere else in Georgia. I know, I know, Savannah and Athens and Rome and all the rest are entirely different and deserve their own polls. But 12 polls on one Poll Position post would be way too unwieldy. And I’m going to make a request of those of you who don’t vote in Georgia: Please don’t vote in this poll — it ain’t scientific, but it’s all I’ve got — but feel free to comment in the thread below.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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260 comments Add your comment
Sam
July 27th, 2012
2:06 pm
I’m voting YES!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
July 27th, 2012
2:09 pm
Mitt the Twit?
Lol, workin’ that ferun pawlicee.
Cherokee resident
July 27th, 2012
2:10 pm
middle: “if you think paying a 1% salkes tax so that ATLANTA can build a beltline”
Have you seen the project list? That’s not the only one on there as you have eluded to several times.
BTW, this sales tax gets the tourist, the folks who use MARTA, and the people who ride buses to pay too. The gas tax dosen’t do that.
Old timer
July 27th, 2012
2:12 pm
Voted no…..I do not believe the list will make a dent in traffic and it is not the governments job to provide jobs…
Vote NO
July 27th, 2012
2:12 pm
Transportation Investment Act Return on Investment for DeKalb County estimated the TIA revenue generated is $1,017.2 million (just over one billion dollars); however, the direct investment will deliver approximately $556.8 million in DeKalb County. In other words, most of the money will benefit the City of Atlanta and results in a negative investment for the county as a whole. This will prove to be detrimental because the taxpayers and voters of DeKalb County will continue to pay the 1 percent tax for the operation and maintenance for MARTA. Once again, DeKalb County will pay 2 percent in transportation tax while the other counties pay one percent.
Transportation Investment Act Return on Investment for Fulton County estimated the TIA revenue generated is $1,237.6 million (just over 1.2 billion); however, the direct investment will deliver approximately $920.6 million within Fulton County. In other words, Fulton County will receive more of its money than DeKalb County; however, a large amount of funding will benefit the City of Atlanta.
Transportation Investment Act Return on Investment for the City of Atlanta estimated TIA revenue generated $914.7 million; however, the direct investments will deliver approximately $895.7 million within the City of Atlanta. In other words, the City of Atlanta will have the greatest gain from the TSPLOST because their investment will amount to over 2 billion ($2.156.5 million) dollars in return on investment overall. Compared to both DeKalb and Fulton County, the City of Atlanta stands to receive the greatest return on investment. However, will investing in the City of Atlanta solve our congestion/traffic problems?
Read more: CrossRoadsNews – entry Why Vote No on TSPLOST
@@
July 27th, 2012
2:16 pm
AmVet @ 1:33—Confused faux conservatives debating T-SPLOST is about as exciting as a Romney campaign.
Maybe AmVet could liven things up with your own personal take?
schnirt
AmVet on 7/13/2012—I have yet to decide on this T-SPLOST issue.
The fundamental question is will these projects pay dividends for the taxpayers and commuters?
A tough question to answer…
I left out your usual….neocons, faketriots, worst ever, blah
blah
blah
http://blogs.ajc.com/kyle-wingfield/2012/07/13/taking-a-look-at-some-t-splost-claims/?cp=all#comment-127756
@@
July 27th, 2012
2:16 pm
with HIS own personal take.
middle of the road
July 27th, 2012
2:24 pm
“along with the option to evaluate it for 10 years before we vote on it again.”
IF they pass this tax, I can hear it now – ” We have had an 8% tax for the last 10 years, and now everyone is used to it. We haven’t solved any transportation problems, so we need to reauthorizer the tax to pay for more improvements ( or to pay for maintenance of our projects.” Trust me, if we authorize this increase, sales tax will NEVER go down. Do you know of ANY instance after a SPLOST ran out that it was not reauthorized?
@@
July 27th, 2012
2:27 pm
Lawd ah mercy! I just had a guy running for state house come to my front door. Said he was visiting all the residents in my area to seek our input. Super nice fella!
Told him I’d already cast my vote for him. He lit up like a Christmas tree. He’s running against a friend of mine.
@@
July 27th, 2012
2:29 pm
Do you know of ANY instance after a SPLOST ran out that it was not reauthorized?
Can’t think of one.
Cherokee resident
July 27th, 2012
2:29 pm
Vote No: Half truths with your figures there. The direct investment numbers you list are for projects WHOLLY contained within the municipality. You don’t provide figures for projects that are partially in those municipalities. Don’t those benefit their citizens also!
1.3 Billion partially in DeKalb
6 million partially Fulton
2.1 Billion partially in Atlanta
A lot of those benefiting figures and projects will overlap each other.
middle of the road
July 27th, 2012
2:29 pm
“Not true. There are 10 counties in our area. Not all of them include portions of Atlanta.”
That 10 county area is the “Atlanta REgion” so all of our sales tax goes to support the “Atlanta Region”, meaning Atlanta. If it were limited to counties that contain a portion of the city of Atlanta (Fulton and Dekalb), I wouldn’t have to vote on it – they could pay for their stuff themselves.
As far as the 10% that is going to MARTA – there is a simple way to raise that amount of money without TSPLOST – raise the fares.
Hillbilly D
July 27th, 2012
2:31 pm
It’s about whether you ultimately trust the rule of law to work.
A lot of us don’t, based on years of experience.
If approved, which I am not in favor of, ten years from now we will hear how it needs to be extended because the proposed project will not be done. Cost over runs and delays will be the reason.
That one you can take to the bank. By the way, when they were selling the original MARTA vote, all those years ago, it was supposed to be for 10 years, too.
How’s the weather in the mountains today? PLease say “cool” so I can dream I ‘m in the blue green havens of happy elevations and cool air..
I could say that but Mama always told me not to lie. It’s just plumb hot. The one saving grace is that we haven’t paved over everything (at least not yet), so we don’t have as much heat radiating off the asphalt and concrete. Ain’t progress grand?
On SPLOTS in general: Every time they try to get one passed up here, the local politicians and Chamber of Commerce always try to sell it by telling us that 75-80% of sales tax money that is collected, comes from out of the county, which is a complete damn lie.
(I just got back from early voting so I’m still a tad pissed over the lame people I had to choose from).
middle of the road
July 27th, 2012
2:32 pm
As far as the 10% that is going to MARTA – there is a simple way to raise that amount of money without TSPLOST – raise the fares.
But of course, that would affect ATLANTA’S POOR people – so us suburbs need to subsidize ATLANTA’s poor with our sales tax.
Tourists – where do tourists go, Cherokee County or Atlanta.
middle of the road
July 27th, 2012
2:35 pm
“BTW, this sales tax gets the tourist, the folks who use MARTA, and the people who ride buses to pay too.”
Tourists, yes – but MARTA and Bus fares don’t include sales tax or it is built in. Raise the fares and MARTA will make more money. Do you really think that the people who ride MARTA will go buy a car if the rate goes up from $2.50 to $3.00?
Cherokee resident
July 27th, 2012
2:35 pm
middle: Thanks to “Vote NO” I had to do some reseach and found the followingf info for Cherokee County.
TIA revenue generated 279.7M
Direct investment in Cherokee 268.5M
Partially within Cherokee 95M
Benefiting Cherokee residents and commuters 971M
Just looking at the direct and partial projects in Cherokee we are gaining over what we are paying out. Doesn’t look to me like we’re building the Atl beltline.
Cherokee resident
July 27th, 2012
2:37 pm
“but MARTA and Bus fares don’t include sales tax” correct, but they do buy goods at the stores.
Rick
July 27th, 2012
2:38 pm
Confused Young Person,
It is not that us “older” folks don’t want to invest in the infrastructure, it is the list of projects we are all being ask to support are not even close to being the ones we should be taking on.
Be careful about accepting the whole “hog”, just to get your 1%. That is the game being played, here. We have 99 major traffic problems, Cobb’s air traffic control tower, ain’t one of them. Every other county and city manages to pay for their own. If Cobb doesn’t want to, how about letting the private jet owners (those 1% ers) pay their own way? Atlanta’s trolley cars are going to be real cute, but I don’t want to pay for them. And, they slow traffic down in most cities. That is self defeating.
Cherokee resident
July 27th, 2012
2:39 pm
The people who ride MARTA buy goos at the stores whereas they don’t buy gas.
md
July 27th, 2012
2:39 pm
I vote for anybody making at least 50k a year to pay an additional 5% tax to pay for the improvements based solely on the assumption that they should have it compared to the all those only making 49k or less………..I think that is a definition of fair around here.
middle of the road
July 27th, 2012
2:39 pm
Cherokee Resident – you better send me a link to that information, I don’t believe it a minute. The “benefitting” part is just a bunch of BS about how their best estimates will shave 5.2 minutes off a Cherokee resident’s commute and he makes $20 per hour so he makes more money, but he doesn’t – he only gets 5.2 minutes extra sleep or family time. I just flat don’t believe the other numbers.
Rider Inman
July 27th, 2012
2:41 pm
I find it hilarious when ppl make the comment that transit won’t help them because they don’t take it/use it. It’s a simple mathematical word problem. For EVERY person that takes transit or some other alternative, that’s one less car off the road freeing up space for you and your gas guzzler. That kids, is called relieving congestion! It should be pretty simple to comprehend, but ppl seem to be to selfish to see the true impact. You get what you pay for and right now GA ain’t paying for much when it comes to investments in transportation. Out of the 50 states, we’re near the bottom. In order to have a healthy transportation system, ppl need to have options.
middle of the road
July 27th, 2012
2:42 pm
“Direct investment in Cherokee 268.5M”
That is probably to build a toll lane that to use you are going to have to pay for AGAIN.
@@
July 27th, 2012
2:42 pm
The people who ride MARTA buy goos at the stores
Shouldn’t that be Goo Goos?
Vote NO
July 27th, 2012
2:43 pm
“I just got back from early voting so I’m still a tad pissed over the lame people I had to choose from).”
You remind me of 2008.
Cherokee Resident: Those aren’t my figures so I probably shouldn’t have posted them. Did so to make the point that the City of Atlanta does seem to be getting a better deal than outlying counties but if you want to say otherwise, that would be ok by me. I am opposed to this plan because I really, really don’t think it will do much to take cars off the road, that a lot of the money and time will be wasted when we could have had a better plan. A long look at the project list tells me that and I am not surprised to see so many contracting companies pressing for passage of the this tax.
Cherokee resident
July 27th, 2012
2:44 pm
Here’s the list. It’s specific projects, not the mathmatical word problem.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/92194885/Transportation-Investment-Act-Return-on-Investment-for-County-City
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
July 27th, 2012
2:45 pm
• An amazing 64 percent of the 4.4 million employees on the federal payroll are either uniformed military personnel or work for Defense, Veterans Affairs and Homeland Security. The U.S. defense budget is “greater than the combined defense budgets of the next 17 largest spenders.”
You cons still want to shrink government?
@@
July 27th, 2012
2:45 pm
Oops!
Shouldn’t that be Goo Goo Clusters?
Not familiar with the junk food.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
July 27th, 2012
2:46 pm
oops, here is the source:
“Red Ink” by David Wessel, economics editor for the Wall Street Journal
Hillbilly D
July 27th, 2012
2:47 pm
You remind me of 2008.
I wasn’t happy about that bunch either and I’m even less happy with them, since some of them got elected and have had 4 years to bless us with their presence in office.
Hillbilly D
July 27th, 2012
2:49 pm
@@
They could be talking about these folks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaP6rJIdzFM
JamVet
July 27th, 2012
2:50 pm
Looks like my obsessed one still hasn’t quit me.
She never will.
Schnort.
Hang on my every word, lil’ darlin’.
It’s what you do!
Vote NO
July 27th, 2012
2:50 pm
Could some conservative please respond to this “McCool” before he blows his trolling gasket.
md
July 27th, 2012
2:51 pm
” For EVERY person that takes transit or some other alternative, that’s one less car off the road freeing up space for you and your gas guzzler.”
In true math form yes…in reality, no. As more start riding transit and traffic begins to lessen invariably those that didn’t really want to be using transit in the first place figure it’s time to get back on the road since all those “others” are now using transit.
It’s a circle/cycle.
@@
July 27th, 2012
2:54 pm
Hillbilly:
Frenchmen?
AmVet:
A bit embarrassed with what you brought to the debate, are ‘ya?
Can’t say as I blame ‘ya.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
July 27th, 2012
2:59 pm
“McCool” before he blows his trolling gasket.
I don’t read responses from “you people”.
oldfart
July 27th, 2012
3:02 pm
I attended a public meeting arranged by GDOT regarding the I-85 HOT lanes in which I would estimate that approximately 85% were against its implementation (can’t say construction as it already existed). $100 million was spent anyway on signs and sensors and it was opened to a fanfare of protest and promptly clogged the general flow further.
I attended what was advertised as a “Town Hall” meeting to discuss the HOT lanes with GDOT and SRTA reps also attending to field questions. Upon arriving found it was a Gwinnett Republican speechfest in which the “Town” was not allowed to speak. GDOT was lobbed some chosen softball questions and anyone wanting to followup with questions were invited to LEAVE. GDOT and SRTA declined to attend a true town hall meeting setup by opponents of the HOT lanes along with 2 state senators at the Gwinnett Courthouse and including a stated agenda and rules of order. I then decided I would attend a meeting in Hall County that had been arranged months in advance for Gena Evans, Ex. Director of SRTA, to address and field questions from the business community of which I am a member. Fearing negative feedback she cancelled said appearance.
Why would I want to attend further public hearings hosted by GDOT when it seems no one is hearing? Why do I get angered when I see ads telling me that if TSPLOST is not approved that there will be more toll roads when the projects for more HOT lanes are already underway and planned to the tune of $10 Billion with absolutely NOTHING in the TSPLOST proposal that promises to rescind these toll roads? Why is a sales tax on EVERYTHING including groceries considered the most equitable way to fund transportation when a portion of the gas tax still goes to the general fund?
Rider Inman
July 27th, 2012
3:07 pm
md,
That’s not entirely true. There have been studies/surveys done on commuters in the Atlanta region that show once a commuter starts taking a commute alternative, more than 64% continue to use that alternative in the future. Some may go back to SOV life, but more than half continue to use it because they realize 1. it’s not as bad as some imagine it to be (crime, robbing, homeless) and 2. it saves them $. I don’t think the vast majority of the population understands how much they truly are paying to be dependent on personal automobile transport. Most of the time, it’s the avg family’s 2nd highest expense.
Jefferson
July 27th, 2012
3:08 pm
Tightwads are NEVER happy people.
A Realist
July 27th, 2012
3:11 pm
VoteNo Guy:
OK, so Atlanta gets a bit chunk. Atlanta also has to deal with more congestion than any other area in this region… including the associated wear&tear, pollution, litter, and noise. Somehow I don’t think you consider anyone lives there…. LOTS of people live in Atlanta. We have to deal with all those stinkin’ cars from other communities every day… EVERY day. Why do so many people want to USE Atlanta, and not even begin to pay for anything from which they benefit?
All these cut&paste articles against the TIA seem to come from the same falsehood creation machine. The organizations that have been supporting the TIA seem to have put out lots of facts, and the naysayers are making lots ‘o stuff up. (granted… I’ll agree about our crooked politicians!)
There is direct investment in the projects, and there is also the associated return on infrastructure improvement. The latter will benefit everyone, many times over.
JamVet
July 27th, 2012
3:12 pm
I’m embarrassed that I’m conversing with you.
But it’s OK, when in Rome do as the banished Romans, right?
Schnort.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
July 27th, 2012
3:14 pm
I have to agree with Rider. Once people get set in their ways they are difficult to change. You get used to riding the bus or the train and your week runs like clockwork for at least the commuting part of it – and who doesn’t want the more annoying parts of one’s day to pass with as little headache/stress as possible.
Not everyone will be slyly calculating to see how they can get an edge on everyone else by perfectly timing their jump back into driving on the highway.
Courtney
July 27th, 2012
3:19 pm
Voting NO until the DOT takes down the HOT lanes and puts back the HOV lanes. The DOT is making things worse and not better. Why give them more money?
jose
July 27th, 2012
3:19 pm
I have lived and worked in three major U.S cities. I have never before seen 1) traffic issues like ATL and even worse, 2) such extreme apathy from policy makers about what to about it. On one hand, I think TSPLOST is one big punt by state government who is responsible in every other state in the union for addressing transportation issues. Sadly, they won’t do anything so I am reluctantly forced to SUPPORT it because we have to do something, anything!!!
@@
July 27th, 2012
3:20 pm
And spendthrifts are impulsive buyers. It’s always that next purchase that’s gonna make ‘em happy. They usually go into debt trying to buy happiness.
Rick
July 27th, 2012
3:25 pm
Long ago, when I was much, much younger, I attended 10 and 20 year GDOT “Town Hall” meetings, where often only 3 people attending represented the general public (and they all came in my car!). Everyone else there were generally people who had a vested interest in the construction projects being proposed. From GDOT, and their paid consultants, all you heard was gross exaggerations about the financial benefits, that a simple informal audit or GOOGLE search could blow apart in a matter of minutes. Open records request showed the “data” used in the study were from verbal estimates given by those again, who personally and financially benefitting from the very projects being proposed. How ludicrous!
I was bullied and even threatened by GDOT management because I had the audacity to make an audio recording of the meeting: “Do you UNDERSTAND you could be breaking the law?”
Needless to say, as a former activist, I am not impressed with how government (local and state) processes the public’s concerns or needs. Money talks, but the rest of us can walk: VOTE NO this Tuesday.
gm
July 27th, 2012
3:26 pm
Do Dekalb county really need more buses in a over crowed county? Why should the people in dekalb pay 2 cents when the other counties ride the Marta and will only pay 1 cent?
md
July 27th, 2012
3:31 pm
” 2. it saves them $. I don’t think the vast majority of the population understands how much they truly are paying to be dependent on personal automobile transport.”
I think the question for suburbanites comes down to convenience…..no different than paying the extra cost of the gallon of milk from the quicky store vs going “all the way” to the grocery store.
Nothing worse than to take transit into town and then have something not planned come up…an emergency, general change of plans, or the pure spontaneity of doing something out of the ordinary. And as I’ve mentioned many times before, it depends on where folks are coming from. If one can’t access transit until half way through their commute, it makes no sense many times to use it…..it’s just as easy to stay in the car vs the other headaches of using transit.
md
July 27th, 2012
3:33 pm
“2) such extreme apathy from policy makers about what to about it.”
That’s a false flag. I’ve watched the atl grow from 2 lane roads to the mega hwy system now in place. That non-apathy has been building roads non-stop for 40 years………
Majic Mike
July 27th, 2012
3:33 pm
I would rather drive down GA400 if it was a gravel road then to give those crooks any more money.