Ending the Ga. 400 tolls now isn’t a great idea
OK, I’m going to be the bad guy today. I’m going to be the only (according to my Twitter feed, anyway) person who thinks Gov. Nathan Deal’s plan to end the toll on Ga. 400 by the end of next year, which he announced today, is a bad idea. (For the record, I pay the toll going and coming every workday.)
Coming 12 days before the T-SPLOST referendum, this is an obvious pander for “yes” votes. It’s a last-ditch attempt to save what would appear to be an expensive but failed campaign to pass the $7.2 billion tax. But I highly doubt it will be an effective one.
There is no doubt the broken promise to remove the 400 toll — broken in 2010 by lame-duck Gov. Sonny Perdue — is a huge driver of opposition to the T-SPLOST. It is one of the clearest examples of why trust in government is lacking. Deal addressed this issue in a press-release quote about removing the toll, saying “it is imperative that governments build the trust of their people.”
But I will be very surprised if many voters upset about the broken toll promise hear Deal’s new promise to take it down — 17 months from now — and suddenly feel their faith in government renewed. In all likelihood, the damage is done.
The biggest problem I have with this decision, however, is that it ties our hands for making transportation improvements should the T-SPLOST fail.
Three things that many proponents and opponents of the tax agree on are: 1) we need to improve our transportation infrastructure; 2) the $450 million rebuilding of the interchange at 400 and I-285 is one of the most-needed projects; and 3) additional revenue is needed to pay for the biggest improvements.
Keep in mind the 400-285 interchange is just one of the projects along 400: Also on the T-SPLOST list are $190 million for collector/distributor lanes from 285 north to Spalding Drive and $48 million for improvements to the interchange at Holcomb Bridge Road. The referendum may fail because voters don’t think the entire list is worthwhile. But given the needs in the 400 corridor, I find it hard to believe it’s really a good idea before the referendum to forgo an existing revenue stream for projects there.
Government’s trust problem has as much to do with how it often goes about its work — e.g., the quick-and-quiet way the 400 toll was extended in the first place, and the belief by many voters that the T-SPLOST list was not compiled to maximize congestion relief but development opportunities — as anything else. What ticks off people around here is the sense that our elected officials are playing political games with issues that affect residents’ everyday lives, rather than setting a course of action and explaining/selling it to the public.
A last-minute bid to win support for a distrusted tax, while closing off options for the future, doesn’t do much to bolster my confidence in them.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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186 comments Add your comment
Road Scholar
July 19th, 2012
4:22 pm
Kyle, you have my e-mail address…..
@@
July 19th, 2012
4:22 pm
Oops! Michael.
Note to self–pay closer attention.
Just Say No to New Taxes
July 19th, 2012
4:23 pm
Road Scholar: I believe Roy paid for the interchange with I75/85 at Atlantic Station using Ga 400 Toll money. When caught, he said, oops, I didn’t know any better, imho! Once a slime ball politician, always a slime ball politician. I for one eagerly await the revolution….
ld
July 19th, 2012
4:25 pm
A vote against the Tspolost is a vote to put the responsibility for serving the best interest of the state back where it belongs–in the laps of Georgia’s power hungry, over-paid, work/responsibility-dodging, self-serving, money grubbin; lobbyist pampered, have-it-both ways elected polititions.
md
July 19th, 2012
4:33 pm
“Let me get this straight, you want government to build, repair and maintain roads? That sounds very socialist to me. Let the rick folk pay for the roads so they can get their goods transported and their workers to work.”
Gov’t gets its money from those willing to go out and start businesses……….so those businesses built the roads.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
July 19th, 2012
4:34 pm
Bryan, I suggest you read my 2:36 again.
The problem is that you’re complaining that there is no Plan B.
My complaint is that calling for a Plan B, when Plan A hasn’t been voted on, is electorally foolish.
Road Scholar
July 19th, 2012
4:35 pm
“…the feds should relinquish the bulk of transportation planning and funding back to the states.
It makes little to no sense that Georgians pay a gas tax, the feds take the bulk of it, then Georgia’s politicians have to go to Washington and ask for our money back — but the feds decide what we build with it! ”
Kyle, as of the last transportation bill approved before the recent one, we would get directly 92% of our fed gas tax back. The remainder went to research, joint transportation studies with other states, to fund part of the Fed DOT,safety studies and other related costs. Back in the 1970-1990 times we got back about 60% directly. The bill in 1992 reduced the fed governments role in selecting projects and set the 92% min return. Since then earmarks have been outlawed, but many “unfunded” programs were added diluting the money collected. The new bill, which I am reviewing, allegedly reduces the programs and gives more control to the locals…not necessarily GDOT but the state regional and urban area planning organizations. Those planning orgs are rooted in fed law.
Again in past posts, I have said that the fed tax should be abolished or reduced to only fund joint research and development, safety programs, research which benefits the states, the national defense hwy system etc. Send the remainder of the money or the fed tax% not used for those programs directly to the states.
Road Scholar
July 19th, 2012
4:38 pm
Just say..: I do not believe so. It was developer monies , federal (DOT and EPA ( it was a brownsfield redevelopment project)) and state monies. The only SR 400 money used was for the land I defined earlier.
Just Say No to New Taxes
July 19th, 2012
4:44 pm
Road Scholar – Kyle has full access to the AJC archives from that era, I am sure he can tell us the whole story, if he so chooses.
Just Say No to New Taxes
July 19th, 2012
4:45 pm
There was a big stink about the diversion of GA 400 toll money by Roy, the ajc ran several stories.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
July 19th, 2012
4:45 pm
Man, @@!
First JDW, and now YOU!
I must really be getting inside your heads . . .
Kyle Wingfield
July 19th, 2012
4:53 pm
Road @ 4:05: I agree, more traffic on 400 between 285 and 85 is probably coming when the toll booths disappear. Which will probably lead to the creation of HOT lane(s) there (and north of 285?) …
Deal in his announcement indicated there will be enough money already in the account or coming between now and Dec. 2013 to pay for the projects. The reduced interest payments due to refinancing eliminate the need to keep the tolls past 2013, not to pay for the projects.
@@
July 19th, 2012
4:57 pm
Tiberius:
Sorry! No room for you inside my head. After trying to follow this T-Splost debate, it’s full of cotton balls.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
July 19th, 2012
5:00 pm
@@ at 4:57:
I know what you mean. My own situation makes it easy for me. Glad they’re going away as part of my small government beliefs, but in essence will affect me very little. I might spend $2 per year driving on GA400.
iggy
July 19th, 2012
5:10 pm
HOT Lanes will not be used by this blogger. Paying a tax on a tax…KMA!
Dusty
July 19th, 2012
5:39 pm
I don’t care if the ending of Ga. 400 tolls now is a great idea.
The governor who made the original “pay off promise” lied and that lie is “set in concrete”. We don’t forget it. Now Governor Deal has made his promise to end the tolls in 13 months according to what the regulations allow. We can only wait and see how this promise works out. (I don’t believe in mob violence.)
As to T-SPLOST. even if they lined GA 400 with decorated Christmas trees, gave free ice cream at the toll booths and polished your headlights at every stop, I would not vote for T-SPLOST.
Speaking of great ideas, I need one. What should I have for dinner?
Michael H. Smith
July 19th, 2012
5:43 pm
@@
July 19th, 2012
4:22 pm
Note to who and what are you talking about?
BADA BING
July 19th, 2012
5:52 pm
If you chop a tree down in the forest, and no one is around,did you do that, or did the Gov’t do it for you?
Michael H. Smith
July 19th, 2012
5:53 pm
It is a very simple thing to get a voter approved gas tax increase past, provided the terms met voter approval. But this give MARTA the loins share when most of the taxpayers involved in this thing don’t want to give MARTA a cent isn’t going to cut it. Nor will the idea of giving the politicians another with no strings and no mandatory return to the ballot for voter approval of extension .
How many times has Cobb and Gwinnett told MARTA to take a hike Kyle? After what has happened with the GA 400 toll road Georgians will never give their elected office a tax with no strings or mandate for re-approval to extend the tax or kill it. Of course they can just raise the tax and face we voters head on at the ballot box as many of them surely will now after these last minute stunts.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 19th, 2012
5:55 pm
No, Obama resents their modest success precisely because they did earn it.- Taranto, WSJ
So which came first, the car, the road or the tax used to build the road?
md
July 19th, 2012
5:57 pm
“If you chop a tree down in the forest, and no one is around,did you do that, or did the Gov’t do it for you?”
Did the gov’t pay for the ax??
Michael H. Smith
July 19th, 2012
6:00 pm
Dusty,
Deal and Company could have ended the toll already. But we agree, it will not make any difference. Our NO vote shall remain NO.
Wallis the dog
July 19th, 2012
6:08 pm
When the tolls cease I hope they’ll leave one worker out there to collect fifty cents from Sonny Perdue when he drives by.
Hillbilly D
July 19th, 2012
6:08 pm
Coming 12 days before the T-SPLOST referendum, this is an obvious pander for “yes” votes.
Not only is this an obvious pander for votes, it’s also just a “plan”. Now me, I don’t trust any politicians, in general, and Ol’ Nathan is one of the ones I don’t trust in particular. I’d be about willing to bet you a Co-Cola that this “plan” never comes to fruition, no matter which way the vote goes. It’s just another pig in a poke.
@@
July 19th, 2012
6:10 pm
Michael:
This should explain it.
@@
July 19th, 2012
6:15 pm
Tell ‘ya how muddled this debate has left my mind.
I’m reading an article about California’s new law that mandates laying chickens be provided a cage where they can stand up and spread their ___________?
Legs? That’s what I thought I read.
It’s actually their wings…they should be able to stand up and spread their wings.
Michael H. Smith
July 19th, 2012
6:16 pm
Got ya’. Once I went back and read the direction of your initial comment it became clear. I should have wrote back, never mind before you read my clueless question. My bad.
@@
July 19th, 2012
6:16 pm
And chickens should probably be “hens”.
Hillbilly D
July 19th, 2012
6:28 pm
When the tolls cease I hope they’ll leave one worker out there to collect fifty cents from Sonny Perdue when he drives by.
If he was still governor, he’d just fly over in one of the Georgia Air Force’s helicopters. I wonder if he can still do that as an ex-governor.
Hillbilly D
July 19th, 2012
6:31 pm
And chickens should probably be “hens”.
If’n they lay eggs or else you got the story of the century. (IWH)
Reminds me of the first time my Grandpa sent me out to gather eggs. He gave me a basket, pointed me at the chicken house, didn’t say anything about how many eggs I should find or where they’d be. So I made repeated trips back to the chicken house because “boy, you didn’t get ‘em all”. After a few days, I figured out exactly where each hen’s nest was (they had free range inside the chicken house). I believe he was teaching me something.
John
July 19th, 2012
6:34 pm
Will all the mis-management of funds that the politicians seem to engage in on a regular basis how dare they ask the citizens to impose another tax on themselves! Especially in these times of hardship when the citizens are scrapping to make a living with what they have. The politicians should learn a lesson from us and start managing the taxpayer’s money better!
BADA BING
July 19th, 2012
6:35 pm
Hey all, this weekend I am going to get in my car, which I didn’t build, load my jetski, which I didn’t build, drive to the lake, which I didn’t impound, on roads that I didn’t pave, take a lunch, that I didn’t grow, pick, or process, stop for gas that I didn’t find, pump or refine, and have some fun. This country is great, I don’t have to do anything and yet I get rewarded. This must be how plantation owners felt in the Old South. No wonder slavery was popular.
md
July 19th, 2012
6:54 pm
I put gas in my car last week that helped pave that road heading to the lake, so by someone’s logic I must own a share of your jetski…….what time shall we be there??
BADA BING
July 19th, 2012
7:01 pm
md, you must be a socialist, be there at 10 AM. You have to help push me it off.
Kyle Wingfield
July 19th, 2012
7:03 pm
All right, everyone, comments will be in moderation until tomorrow morning.
@@
July 19th, 2012
7:06 pm
My first and only experience at gathering eggs was with my sister-in-law. She had agreed to gather someone’s eggs while they were away. She told me that I had to leave one egg in the nest so the hen would know where to return.
Went back the next day to gather again. Couldn’t recall where I’d left the single eggs. If left there too long, that original single egg was gonna rot or hatch.
Don’t know how that works.
md
July 19th, 2012
7:07 pm
Oh no….no work for me, just ride and ride and ride…….
middle of the road
July 19th, 2012
7:53 pm
So when TSPLOST fails, I will bet that Deal will go back on this promise , too! Want to bet?
ViewFromMidtown
July 19th, 2012
8:28 pm
Wow, Kyle finally admits there is a project on the Atlanta Metro TIA list that would benefit HIM. After all his posturing and pontificating.
What’s hilarious about all these people crying wolf about “government corruption” and “broken promise” is that they’re complaining about a “leadership” and legislature that is majority Republican which you claim is corrupt and by its cowardice to do what’s necessary, gave us a TIA process which was pre-ordained to produce a sub-optimal list and yet, after the elections every Republican incumbent will be re-elected.
You complain about corruption and then refuse to hold the corrupt Republicans accountable. You deserve the crumbling infrastructure you vote for; you deserve the inept and corrupt government you get. Sadly, you will be taking all the rest of us down with you.
Eric
July 19th, 2012
9:01 pm
Good post, Kyle. I agree! I especially read through the lines and find that the purpose of TPLOST is more development for business at the people’s expense. Traffic relief won’t amount to much when another 1-2 million people arrive. But they’ll surely have new housing built and more roads.
Old Timer
July 19th, 2012
9:17 pm
Here’s the deal, Deal ends the 400 toll, the 10 county voters deny the TSLOST. The remaining state has their own 10 county TSPLOST problems. All this rhetoric has been for the Atlanta area, So does Atnata concede to the rest of the state or do they try to spoon off the rest of the state later. Politican are not to be trusted, Statesmen are. If the rest of the stae 10 county units pass the vote and the total vote is affrimative–the Atlanta area still wins. This election wasn’t just about one area–the politicans lumped it all together.Tthey still hve an out for Atlanta.
Jm
July 19th, 2012
10:07 pm
Kyle
We need to double deck the perimeter
Period
With taxes and tolls, limited access
BJ
July 19th, 2012
11:06 pm
I’ll gladly remove your toll booth in 2013, for your vote for TSPLOST this month.
Deal pledged not to raised taxes, but is now supporting the TSPLOST tax.
Why should we trust him when he says the GA 400 tax will be removed next year?
JASon
July 20th, 2012
12:44 am
If the government becomes corrupt, aren’t we allowed to take it over if we want? I’m not suggesting I want to do this in any way, I’m just asking if its legal from a constitutional standpoint. I was just curious.
southpaw
July 20th, 2012
7:29 am
I report @5:55 pm
Before the car, horses and buggies were on the roads. Now between the road and the tax, your guess is as good as mine.
BADA BING @5:52
Good to hear from you again! I’ve missed your wit.
Bill
July 20th, 2012
8:02 am
It sounds like you are against transportation taxes, except when they might improve YOUR commute.
JDW
July 20th, 2012
8:04 am
@Eric…”I especially read through the lines and find that the purpose of TPLOST is more development for business at the people’s expense. ”
At the people’s expense…who do you think will work in the jobs created by business? Who do you think is hurt by lack of said jobs?
Bill
July 20th, 2012
8:05 am
Jason,
That is an interesting question. Our founding fathers certainly suggested that the people should be able to throw off an oppressive government. But, they also passed laws regarding sedition and treason that make that very act a major crime. I think that when they talked about throwing off an oppressive government, they meant the one before them.
intown resident
July 20th, 2012
8:10 am
Double the tolls and run Marta up to Alpharetta; use the remaining money to unclog the 400/285 interchange . That is the problem in this state -everybody wants free infrastructure and the people in the North end are scared to death of riding MARTA except when they go to the airport or to a sports event.
I'm a liberal and believe everything I read and nothing the other side comes up with...cause we're smart and they are not
July 20th, 2012
8:12 am
Scared of riding Marta? I make sure I have a full tank of gas when traveling through anywhere in Atlanta so i don’t have to get off for gas. And yes, I was born and raised in Atlanta and lived there 41 years.