Ending the Ga. 400 tolls now isn’t a great idea
OK, I’m going to be the bad guy today. I’m going to be the only (according to my Twitter feed, anyway) person who thinks Gov. Nathan Deal’s plan to end the toll on Ga. 400 by the end of next year, which he announced today, is a bad idea. (For the record, I pay the toll going and coming every workday.)
Coming 12 days before the T-SPLOST referendum, this is an obvious pander for “yes” votes. It’s a last-ditch attempt to save what would appear to be an expensive but failed campaign to pass the $7.2 billion tax. But I highly doubt it will be an effective one.
There is no doubt the broken promise to remove the 400 toll — broken in 2010 by lame-duck Gov. Sonny Perdue — is a huge driver of opposition to the T-SPLOST. It is one of the clearest examples of why trust in government is lacking. Deal addressed this issue in a press-release quote about removing the toll, saying “it is imperative that governments build the trust of their people.”
But I will be very surprised if many voters upset about the broken toll promise hear Deal’s new promise to take it down — 17 months from now — and suddenly feel their faith in government renewed. In all likelihood, the damage is done.
The biggest problem I have with this decision, however, is that it ties our hands for making transportation improvements should the T-SPLOST fail.
Three things that many proponents and opponents of the tax agree on are: 1) we need to improve our transportation infrastructure; 2) the $450 million rebuilding of the interchange at 400 and I-285 is one of the most-needed projects; and 3) additional revenue is needed to pay for the biggest improvements.
Keep in mind the 400-285 interchange is just one of the projects along 400: Also on the T-SPLOST list are $190 million for collector/distributor lanes from 285 north to Spalding Drive and $48 million for improvements to the interchange at Holcomb Bridge Road. The referendum may fail because voters don’t think the entire list is worthwhile. But given the needs in the 400 corridor, I find it hard to believe it’s really a good idea before the referendum to forgo an existing revenue stream for projects there.
Government’s trust problem has as much to do with how it often goes about its work — e.g., the quick-and-quiet way the 400 toll was extended in the first place, and the belief by many voters that the T-SPLOST list was not compiled to maximize congestion relief but development opportunities — as anything else. What ticks off people around here is the sense that our elected officials are playing political games with issues that affect residents’ everyday lives, rather than setting a course of action and explaining/selling it to the public.
A last-minute bid to win support for a distrusted tax, while closing off options for the future, doesn’t do much to bolster my confidence in them.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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186 comments Add your comment
iggy
July 19th, 2012
2:09 pm
I would imagine they will only block off the toll lanes, instead of eliminating them, for future re-institution when “times are tough.”
southpaw
July 19th, 2012
2:13 pm
JConservative @2:00
Hey! You stole my thunder!
I couldn’t have said it better. “Let’s vote for the additional tax now so that maybe the old tax will go away in five or six months.” SOMETHING will happen before the end of the year, with the result of it being that the toll is still necessary.
President Barry
July 19th, 2012
2:18 pm
MAGIC TELEPROMPTER!
TELL ME WHAT TO SAY ABOUT THIS!
TELL ME WHAT TO THINK!
Don't Tread
July 19th, 2012
2:19 pm
I wonder if the toll will be reinstated if T-SPLOST is defeated. Hmmmmmm…..
Sounds like something 0bama would do.
DannyX
July 19th, 2012
2:20 pm
“TELL ME WHAT TO SAY ABOUT THIS!”
Say “end of quote.”
Kyle Wingfield
July 19th, 2012
2:20 pm
iggy @ 2:09: Deal’s press release referred to the time needed for “physically bringing down the gates and the dramatic restructuring that will be needed in the toll area.” Along with waiting out the three years to have no prepayment penalty, it’s another reason he cited for not taking down the toll until the end of next year.
President Barry
July 19th, 2012
2:26 pm
IS YOU ON MY SECRET KILL LIST YET?
Joeventures
July 19th, 2012
2:28 pm
In related news, a new study was released today showing that cynical people always look for reasons to stay cynical.
Bryan -- MARTA supporter
July 19th, 2012
2:29 pm
I am a supporter of the T-SPLOST but in a way I hope it goes up in flames. For all the no voters that compare this to the 400 tolls it is different. It is written into law that the tax ends in either 10 years or once the money projected is collected. There is no “Plan B” and the region will never pass an all transit or all roads tax. Taxes help maintain our way of living. If older generations didn’t support taxes we wouldn’t have the interstate system or be as developed of a region (heck as a nation) as we are. Then you have the pro transit folks that are mad cause it’s not enough transit. We have a great plan in place with the T-SPLOST. Perfect, no but if we don’t develop a foundation we aren’t just messing with local money we are messing with federal money! Read: http://saportareport.com/blog/2012/07/u-s-rep-john-mica-says-federal-dollars-are-at-stake-if-region-doesnt-pass-transportation-tax-new-polls-show-declining-support/#
And even local government is saying it will be years for them to even consider another T-SPLOST and it probably won’t even happen. But they did make it clear that they are going to get their money… WITH MORE TOLL ROADS!! Look at I-85 folks. Less free lanes with more clogged traffic and no alternatives. And yes this is about jobs and the economy as well, which will be hurt too when we don’t pass this. So welcome worst traffic, no local or federal dollars, more toll roads, and a poor job market and economy! GREAT JOB NO VOTERS!!
As far as the announcement this is government. Nothing happens in government fast. Was this idea on the table for months… YES. Now was it strategically released today when it was… YES also. I really hope you NO voters get what you want: no relief of traffic, no options besides driving, no jobs and economic development, no Plan B, and no way to stop your government from adding more HOT lanes to your highways!!!
Jefferson
July 19th, 2012
2:30 pm
Give Deal his yes votes, he needs the kickback to get out of debt. George Purdue made out like a bandit, why can’t he ?
Keep voting R and they will keep pumping all ya’ll. They forget what got them there, sport.
President Barry
July 19th, 2012
2:32 pm
I SAY WE NEED TO KEEP THOSE TOLLS IN PLACE AND USE THAT MONEY TO HELP SPREAD THE WEALTH AROUND.
IF YOU WERE ABLE TO GET TO YOUR BUSINESS THIS MORNING ON GA 400, YOU DIDN’T DO THAT BY YOURSELF!
YOUR GOVERNMENT MADE THAT ROAD FOR YOU THERE SO YOU COULD GET TO YOUR BUSINESS THAT SOMEBODY ELSE MADE FOR YOU, SO YOU SHOULD BE MORE APPRECIATIVE.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
July 19th, 2012
2:36 pm
Bryan, why would you have a Plan B available and out in the public eye if you have a Plan A in front of the voters you want passed? If your goal is to get your initiative passed, you don’t ever put out a fall-back position; at least not in the electoral world.
This argument about “There is no Plan B” is the silliest ever made on this blog, and that’s saying something.
You also don’t devise a Plan B until you see why and how much this Plan A loses by. Then you either raise taxes with a legislative vote, you change your project lists, or maybe a little bit of both.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
July 19th, 2012
2:38 pm
Isn’t there a rule on this blog about shouting in CAPS all the time?
Road Scholar
July 19th, 2012
2:40 pm
The biggest problem I have with this decision, however, is that it ties our hands for making transportation improvements should the T-SPLOST fail.
Even w/o the decision, our hands would have been tied for 2 years, at least. Or are you just upset that the improvements along SR 400 to be paid for by the toll extension are not being made since it is your commute corridor? Deal did not say what he was going to use to pay off the tolls. Gas Tax? Cookie sale? Transportation funds for the Atlanta region?
Me Be Tollin'
July 19th, 2012
2:48 pm
Here’s an idea – Move the northbound toll booth to the southern end of 400 so people living in the city contribute to the toll. Where it is now, North Fulton residents pay both ways but City residents can go all the way to to Lenox and back for free. In the popular words of President Obama, let’s make it “fair”.
Mel A. Tonin
July 19th, 2012
2:50 pm
OK, so if the TSPLOST passes the 400 tolls go away and if it doesn’t they stay?? Me thinks there will be another “legal hurdle” that will prevent the toll booths from coming down ANYWAY! Vote NO!
Just saying..
July 19th, 2012
2:57 pm
Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to…
Kyle Wingfield
July 19th, 2012
2:57 pm
Road @ 2:40: First, the improvements to be funded by the toll extension are still being made; the ones I mentioned, which stand not to be made, are the ones the T-SPLOST would fund. Second, my understanding is the money is coming from a combination of refinancing (meaning tens of millions less in interest payments) and over-borrowing in the first place (plus the fact the original tolls had also raised more money than necessary).
Third, none of the T-SPLOST improvements affect me personally, because I have a reverse commute and don’t get caught up very often in the mess that is traffic on the 285/400 interchange. The others are further north than where I drive. The new 85/400 interchange would help me, but again — that’s still being built with the toll proceeds. I drive that route every day, so I know rebuilding the 285/400 interchange would help a whole lot of people. Then again, that’s 1.5% of the money — and I see a lot of the places other projects would be built, too. For better or worse…
Kyle Wingfield
July 19th, 2012
2:59 pm
Me Be Tollin’ @ 2:48: OTOH, people who drive south on 400 to 285 never pay any tolls, even though the tolls fund improvements on that part of the highway. Is that “fair”?
Reality
July 19th, 2012
3:02 pm
“We’ll close the GA 400 Toll.”
They turned the microphone off for the rest of that statement:
“As long as you pass the TSPLOST.”
@Kyle Wingfield
July 19th, 2012
3:05 pm
You say the GA400/85 Interchange will not be built using the TSPLOST….then why is it listed as one of the projects?
Kyle Wingfield
July 19th, 2012
3:08 pm
Reality: It’d be clearer for you to keep posting as “Reality” and put “@Kyle Wingfield” in your comment.
On the question: It’s not listed as one of the projects for the T-SPLOST. The 285/400 and 85/285 interchanges are.
Just saying..
July 19th, 2012
3:09 pm
“As long as you pass the TSPLOST.”
Fun-ney!
and probably accurate.
Zelurishinique
July 19th, 2012
3:11 pm
Wow what a transparent, disingenuous move. Kyle called it what it is, an obvious pander for the “yes” vote.
Let’s don’t celebrate too soon. They already lied to us once, what’s to stop him from reneging on this latest promise to end the toll.
President Barry
July 19th, 2012
3:14 pm
LET ME BE CLEAR:
IF YOU FOLKS IN GEORGIA WANT TO HAVE A BAKE SALE TO RAISE MONEY FOR YOUR ROADS AND MAKE IT RAIN THOSE DOLLAR BILLS DOWN ON YOUR STATE’S D.O.T., MY FRIENDS IN THE CHOOM GANG HAVE A TOP-SHELF RECIPE FOR BROWNIES.
YOUR CUSTOMERS WILL KEEP GETTING HUNGRY AND KEEP COMING BACK FOR MORE TO GIVE YOU MORE OF THAT MONEY THAT SOMEBODY ELSE MADE FOR THEM.
BW
July 19th, 2012
3:17 pm
Kyle
I’m not sure “most” people agree on those three points. I even have Facebook friends posting videos of the roads outside their neighborhoods during the morning drive time hour or talking about the police doing more ticketing to justify their traffic congestion denial. I’m not sure if you have to deal with Milton sorry north Fulton county but I do and every one of those road projects will improve my commute from Duluth at I-85 and Pleasant Hill area to 400/McFarland area. I’m not sure there is legitimate opposition on the merits of congestion in that area. But you have alot of posters here talking about trust issues with the politicans they keep voting for….I will acknowledge that you acknowledge basic competency will restore trust yet the prevailing message out there in conservative land is that government is always bad and then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I would love to see a column about restoring trust between voters and elected officials because we need to be able to have another funding mechanism in short order after this vote goes down in flames.
Kyle Wingfield
July 19th, 2012
3:17 pm
President Barry: Lay off the CAPS button.
Yudont Nomey
July 19th, 2012
3:18 pm
Let me get this straight, you want government to build, repair and maintain roads? That sounds very socialist to me. Let the rick folk pay for the roads so they can get their goods transported and their workers to work.
BW
July 19th, 2012
3:18 pm
@Kyle Wingfield/Reality
The 400/85 interchange improvements are funded directly from the toll revenues.
Kyle Wingfield
July 19th, 2012
3:20 pm
BW @ 3:17: I don’t know if “most” do either, without having asked a statistically significant sample of them — which is why I wrote “many.” But I will say that “most” of the anti-T-SPLOST leadership agrees on the points.
BW
July 19th, 2012
3:20 pm
I still believe the legislature should simply raise the gas tax to adequately fund road improvements and bring an comprehensive commuter rail heavy transit plan for metro Atlanta to the voters.
OTP
July 19th, 2012
3:21 pm
If the vote is no, do none of the projects on the list get done? For example, the GA20 widening in Gwinnett supposedly already has federal funding.
BW
July 19th, 2012
3:22 pm
Kyle
We’re splitting hairs on many or most but there is nothing but vocal opposition with no alternative plan that is being pitched due to the need to gulp raise revenues.
Just Say No to New Taxes
July 19th, 2012
3:28 pm
As Ga 400 proves, you cannot trust the government scum to remove a tax as “promised” when certain conditions are met, so the best advice is to never, ever vote to approve a tax, any tax. Just say no to TSPLAT (like a bug hitting the windshield, splat goes the tax).
Bryan -- MARTA supporter
July 19th, 2012
3:29 pm
@ Tiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed July 19th, 2012 2:36 pm
I’m confused, who every said anything about there being a Plan B? I said there isn’t one. Meaning there isn’t going to be nothing if the current T-SPLOST isn’t passed.
And why raise taxes? Isn’t that the argument of most on why we SHOULDN’T vote for the current plan?
Kyle Wingfield
July 19th, 2012
3:30 pm
BW @ 3:22: Actually, I would say most of what you’d normally call the anti-tax crowd is more opposed to transit expansion than the tax itself — though certainly some high-profile opponents think a sales tax is not the best way to raise revenues.
Kyle Wingfield
July 19th, 2012
3:31 pm
OTP @ 3:21: A handful of projects would go through — on what timetable, though, I’m not sure — but most of the projects will be pushed back a long time absent new revenue.
Bubba
July 19th, 2012
3:32 pm
YEEEE-HAW! Let’s go back to dirt roads and horse & buggys! That outta fix Atlanter’s transpotashun problums! GO SOUTH!
southpaw
July 19th, 2012
3:36 pm
Should have said eighteen months, not six months, @2:13. That should give the politicians more time to find a pretext for keeping the toll. “No, southpaw! Just vote in the TSPLOST now, and maybe we’ll end the toll in a year and a half.”
Jay
July 19th, 2012
3:38 pm
The question that journalists need to ask is
1) How much is in the 400 account now
2) How much is going to take to “close the Toll lanes”
3) Why do the Toll Plaza have to completely be redone, just clear the two or three lanes of traffice flow and keep the rest of the structure as a reminder of a promise finally kept or reinstate if needed.
4) How much more in interest payments are needed to Dec 31, 2013, ie total payoff of the bonds including interest payments
5) Is there any other expenditures needed?
I suspect that there is enough right now to finish all the projects but they would rather collecting tolls for another 17 months.
If there is enough money, stop collecting the toll and just make the interest payments on time until Dec 2013 and pay the rest off.
BW
July 19th, 2012
3:44 pm
Kyle
Exactly. I do think that a majority of suburbanities will accept a commuter rail system not run by MARTA or the city of Atlanta. And maybe if that works the entire heavy rail and commuter rail network can be merged under one state agency that receives state funding in exchange for additional oversight read a majority of non Atlanta board members running it. Once this sales tax fails, the legislature is going to have to strap it on and go ahead and vote as a unified bloc to raise the gas tax for the road improvements such that Grover can’t target them all at election time. That’s the only way I see out of this.
Just Say No to New Taxes
July 19th, 2012
3:55 pm
Is the Ga 400 Toll Road Fund the same fund that X Governor Roy (The Crook, imho) Barnyard stole money from for his cronies building Atlantic Station? I think it is, so let us remind people of that other crooked scum bag politician who lied to the taxpayers for the benefit of his worthless cronies, imho! JUST SAY NO TO ALL NEW TAXES, AND TELL ALL DEMOCRATS TO GO TO …..
@@
July 19th, 2012
3:58 pm
I have to admit, this has turned out to be the most confusing topic ever had the “pleasure” of reading.
It’s rare that I travel 400. Have friends whose mansion in perched on a termite hill off of Riverside Drive.
I’ll take a turnip patch over a termite hill any day of the week.
==================================
Watch Your Backs, CEOs: The Margin For Error Is Shrinking
These things have a way of sorting themselves out.
Road Scholar
July 19th, 2012
4:05 pm
Kyle; Now I understand your commute. Get ready for more traffic on this piece of SR 400. By removing the tolls, those who won’t pay the toll because they use different routes to avoid the toll now will use SR400. The studies done have shown that.
Back to the bonds and their payoff. The bonds were sold backed by the future revenue that the toll would bring in. That was the way the original toll worked in building the facility. Now with no revenue stream after 2013, the bonds still need to be paid off with cash. You are right that the future interest money to be paid will go away… a net savings. My point is with some of the projects already in design and construction (I 85 is a design build job…others are in different levels of implementation) either new money will need to be identified to 1) pay off the bonds, and 2) finance those projects that will move forward on the SRTA list of improvements. (This list of project is NOT related to Tsplost).
Some of the SRTA projects may not be implemented (zero cost.). Those that are being implemented have been funded with resulting toll collection balances (leftover monies), or new cash. Where does that cash come from? GDOT budget? General fund? You still have to pay for what has been started, or you will , at min, have to pay demobilization and materials already bought costs.
I would hope that the I 85 project gets done . The others???? If you had read my past posts concerning this corridor, you would remember I liked the I 85 project, but most of the others were too far away from the Extension (south of I 285) to be worthy to use toll monies collected ITP. Some of those projects were in Forsyth Co; the % of users in FC that use the toll section would be very low.
For history sake, the original deal for tolls on SR 400 had been renegotited many times saving the taxpayer money in interest payments over the 20 years. The reason why they weren’t removed earlier is that the operation costs of the toll plaza and the satellite office were under estimated…why…because Georgia has never had such a road. Those duties were privatized with only the toll booth managers being state employees…working for SRTA. The only toll Ga had was a short bridge to St Simons (that toll was removed when a study showed that, with needed toll improvements, the toll revenue there would not pay for the improvements.
Jefferson
July 19th, 2012
4:06 pm
Why when lied to by the GOP, would anyone think they have changed or will change unless booted out ? How did they get the job ?
Michael H. Smith
July 19th, 2012
4:10 pm
Yeah right!
Are some of you Republicans getting nervous?
Go ahead with your little game, end the 400 toll after the fact. It want do you any good. In fact,for many people it will likely add your slimy political insult to our egregious injury which you heaped on top of the nasty liar wound Roy Barnes first inflicted upon us in the first place.
T-SPLOST? HELL NO!
I’m voting for the T-SPLAT
The Republicans supporting this T-SPLOST should all be replaced with “real HONEST SMALL GOVERNMENT conservatives”.
Road Scholar
July 19th, 2012
4:11 pm
Just Say No: Some toll monies were used to buy property west of Atlantic station (bounded by 17th St Ikea, and Northside Drive. Not Atlantic Station proper. I believe that property was sold off; do not know for a fact.
jd
July 19th, 2012
4:16 pm
Hmmm… when the princes and princesses of North Fulton tire of the potholes — maybe they will realize there is NSTAFH – (No Such Thing As A Free Highway)
But, then, they can build businesses without goverment help…
@@
July 19th, 2012
4:20 pm
Tiberius:
Are some of you Republicans getting nervous?
Confused is more like it. When confused, I vote “NO”.
Stick this in your pothole
July 19th, 2012
4:21 pm
And we can build roads without giving 52 cent out of every additional gas tax dollar raised to MARTA.