2012 Tuesday: Polls show clear decline for T-SPLOST support (Updated)
Opinion polls for the presidential race, even when broken down by state, are too far out from Election Day to tell us very much. But the T-SPLOST referendum, which is just two weeks away? That’s different — and a few new polls show us where the momentum lies.
First, a Rosetta Stone Communications poll for Channel 2 Action News released last Friday showed the $7.2 billion tax for transportation projects trails 33 percent to 56 percent. That’s minus-23 percentage points, with just 12 percent saying they’re undecided. Here’s the trend for that poll, with the undecided share of the vote remaining constant:
MAY: minus-3 points (42 for, 45 against, 13 undecided)
JUNE: minus-11 points (38-49-13)
JULY: minus-23 points (33-56-12)
Net Change: minus-20 points
Next, internal polling for Untie Atlanta, the pro-tax campaign. The day after Channel 2 reported its May results, Untie Atlanta released an internal poll showing the measure was winning by 15 percentage points. Today, the campaign’s Twitter account quoted Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed saying, “We have a poll that says 38-41.” The AJC is awaiting confirmation from the mayor as to whether this is another internal poll for Untie Atlanta or his own poll. UPDATED at 2:45 p.m.: The poll was done by the same firm, Hill Research Consultants. I can’t say if the same methodology was used, because we’ve gotten little in the way of explanatory information each time, but I infer that we are talking about more or less the same poll in July as in May. If it’s the former so, that means there’s been a significant increase in the undecided vote — and that the trajectory according to the pro-tax side is:
MAY: +15 points (51-36-13)
JULY: minus-3 points (38-41-21)
Net Change: minus-18 points
While those two polls show different starting and ending points for the tax’s popularity, I find it very interesting that the change over time is almost identical to that of Channel 2’s poll.
The only other poll that has tracked the tax’s popularity over time, at least as far as I’m aware, is Survey USA’s poll for 11 Alive News, which reported yesterday that the tax trails by 13 percentage points in metro Atlanta. The arc for that poll is:
FEBRUARY: minus-1 point (36-37-27)
JULY: minus-13 points (36-49-15)
Net Change: minus-12 points
Note that all of the movement in that poll has been from “undecided” to “no.”
To recap: All three of the most recent polls show a double-digit decline in support for the tax so far, and not one of them currently puts support for the tax at even 40 percent.
One important caveat here is that turnout for the referendum is expected to be very low — so anything could happen, depending on which side simply gets its voters to show up on July 31. That said, if the opinion polls are even close to accurate, the multimillion-dollar campaign to promote the tax is shaping up as the biggest bust since Roy Barnes’ 2002 re-election campaign.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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86 comments Add your comment
citizen
July 17th, 2012
2:43 pm
I have no problem at all in increasing sales taxes for revenue generating. What I have a problem with is that this tactic was conceived because the elected state legislators were too afraid to vote this in because they could lose in their next reelection bid. If you want to be a state senator or a state representative, then man up at take the responsibilty for the hard decisions.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 17th, 2012
2:45 pm
What, people don’t want more taxes?
politcal hack
July 17th, 2012
2:51 pm
Which every political consultant is running the pro T-splost campaign should be fired and never allowed to work again. Losing by double digits with a huge spending advantage like this reeks of an amateur.
stands for decibels
July 17th, 2012
2:51 pm
I’ve been saying awhile now I don’t see this measure passing.
I do think it represented the best deal we were going to get, to fund mass transit improvements, although I’m sympathetic to “citizen’s” complaint about how our elected officials really should man up and pass funding measures as a matter of course.
One important caveat here is that turnout for the referendum is expected to be very low — so anything could happen, depending on which side simply gets its voters to show up on July 31.
agreed. That’s really the only way this passes, if some massive apathy among voters happens to work in the TSPLOST supporters’ favor.
martin the calvinist
July 17th, 2012
2:53 pm
I report, don’t you read Jay Bookman’s blog, there are many people screaming for higher taxes, on high income earners and mostly not on themselves…..
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
July 17th, 2012
2:54 pm
No new taxes, especially for a list that includes projects that will have zero impact on “untying Atlanta”.
Malthusian way
July 17th, 2012
2:56 pm
“the multimillion-dollar campaign to promote the tax is shaping up as the biggest bust”
Kyle, nice to at least one AJC “journalist” looking for the “truth” and not politicking. Now can you tell me where the multimillion-dollar campaign funds are coming from? No one will address the sources…..follow the $$.
martin the calvinist
July 17th, 2012
2:56 pm
BTW, I’m leaning no on it, If it was better written with more detail and politicans spent the money how it was supposed to be spent in general, I’d have a different opinion. But politicans use tax dollars for their reelection and are horrible wasters of public money, the shouldn’t be given more revenue until they learn to spend it wisely and not advance personal political agendas…..
You never can tell
July 17th, 2012
2:56 pm
citizen
Exactly. Well said
Kyle Wingfield
July 17th, 2012
2:57 pm
stands @ 2:51: For a long time, I thought low turnout would favor the pro side, because they had all the the GOTV money. (I suspect they thought the same thing.) But now, I tend to think it favors the anti side because that’s where all the momentum and enthusiasm seem to be.
1961_Xer
July 17th, 2012
3:01 pm
People are taking a look at this and noticing two things:
1) that the project list will not free up traffic. Item example #1: the beltline. Item example #2: a new control tower at McCollum field. This TSplost should be about freeing up traffic. That is the ONLY way you can sell it . If it doesn’t “untie the knot”, as it is being sold, then it shouldn’t be on the list.
2) As I always said in this blog and others, and as a Hartwell County Commissioner also noted the other night on E Ericson’s show on WSB, rural counties are net donors to the large population areas of their TSPLOST district. He was stating how Hartwell will, essentially, be a donor county for Hall/Forsysth TSPLOST projects. Not only that, but Hall and Forsyth have enough voters to pass this all by themselves and force the other counties (Dawson, Hartwell, Lumpkin, White, Union, etc) to pay them TSPLOST money for 10 years. And does anyone think this won’t come up again at the end of 10 years? THIS IS A PLAN THAT TRANSFERS SALES TAXES FROM POORER RURAL COUNTIES TO RICHER URBAN COUNTIES.
The fact that one or two counties in each district can force all of the other counties to pay sales tax to them is a non-starter. Counties need the option to NOT participate before the vote is taken.
Vote NO for TSPLOST !!!!
July 17th, 2012
3:02 pm
NO NO NO for TSPLOST !!!!!!
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
July 17th, 2012
3:03 pm
The T-SPLAT vote will be another victory for the Tea Party.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
July 17th, 2012
3:05 pm
Well! Good political news for a change!
Don Abernethy
July 17th, 2012
3:11 pm
Sorry, I do not trust the politicians with the money. They never do what they promise. I am sure there is a lobbyist someplace who will benefit from road building just waiting to split the spoils with his puppets.
curious
July 17th, 2012
3:13 pm
If Gov Deal and his crooked friends are for it, then I’m in the NO column.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 17th, 2012
3:17 pm
martin the calvinist
July 17th, 2012
2:53 pm
I report, don’t you read Jay Bookman’s blog, there are many people screaming for higher taxes, on high income earners and mostly not on themselves…..
Martin- Not only that, they get paid to scream.
Atlanta Native
July 17th, 2012
3:24 pm
Isn’t Kyle the same guy that said we don’t have a congestion problem? People in Atlanta can do math. A 1% sales tax equals about $10 a month per household. That’s almost literally pennies when you compare it to the lost time and wasted gas we spend on Atlanta’s roads and stunted transit system. I’ll vote “yes” a dozen times if they let me.
Common Sense
July 17th, 2012
3:25 pm
So they want me to support and pay a tax for ten years where I cannot vote out those that are administering it, and I can do nothing about cost overruns and rail lines to no where?
I don’t think so.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
July 17th, 2012
3:29 pm
“I’ll vote “yes” a dozen times if they let me.”
I already have voted a dozen times.
You’re obviously not from a blue state originally.
Aquagirl
July 17th, 2012
3:33 pm
This TSplost should be about freeing up traffic. That is the ONLY way you can sell it
That’s the only language a lot of folks understand. They want to know “are they gonna fix the intersection I spend 10 minutes at every day? Is the money going anywhere else besides where it will personally benefit ME?”
Incorrect answers to either of these questions triggers an automatic no vote.
Jefferson
July 17th, 2012
3:33 pm
Sitting in traffic is a waste, doing nothing about it is sorry.
Hillbilly D
July 17th, 2012
3:34 pm
1961_Xer @ 3:01, brings up a very big point with number 2. This is getting little or no play in the Atlanta T-SPLOST region (AJC/TV etc) but it’s a pretty damn big deal to those of us outside that Region. To expand on that point, if I may, in the region 1961_Xer mentions, not only will most of the money go to Hall County ($1.40+ for every $1 that Hall collects) most of that money will go to South Hall (think Oakwood a little and Flowery Branch, a whole lot). The Gainesville crowd is pushing hard for this, in that region.
To Kyle
I assume the polls you quote are for the Atlanta T-SPLOST region. If that’s correct, do you have any statewide figures or figures for other regions. There are several of us who post here who don’t have a dog in the Atlanta fight but we’ve got one elsewhere.
Johns Creek
July 17th, 2012
3:36 pm
My poll is that I have already voted No on TSPLOST. This tax will not untie the Atlanta traffic knot. It wastes money that needs to be put to better uses. There was no cost benefit analysis done on any of the projects. The projects were selected by politicians based on their opinions, not on the actual benefits that will be achieved for the cost. We need to spend money productively in this country. We cannot afford “bridges to nowhere”, which many of these projects are. They help too few people for too much money. Some people say it will put people to work, but the bottom line is that it is way too expensive for each job created.
Kyle Wingfield
July 17th, 2012
3:37 pm
Atlanta Native @ 3:24: No, what I wrote is that congestion makes up only a small portion of the average commuter’s daily travel time — about 10 minutes out of an hour. The rest of the time consists of the long distances most commuters here travel. Btw, those data come from the very same database the pro-tax campaign uses to calculate that figure you mentioned about “the lost time and wasted gas we spend” here.
And, in case you missed my Sunday column: For the average household, any reduction in the implied “congestion tax” won’t exceed the amount of actual tax paid for the T-SPLOST.
Kyle Wingfield
July 17th, 2012
3:40 pm
Aquagirl @ 3:33: And as I’ve argued before, that’s the only way anyone should approach this question. Not out of selfishness, but out of an inevitable knowledge deficit: I can’t possibly know how the projects would affect traffic in places I never visit, so I should vote based on what it would do in the places I do frequent — and trust that everyone else will do the same.
If it’s a good list, it ought to attract a majority of the vote. If it doesn’t, I don’t know how anyone could objectively describe the plan as effective.
Kyle Wingfield
July 17th, 2012
3:43 pm
Hillbilly D @ 3:34: Some of the regions are reported separately here. (Scroll to the right on the first question.)
@@
July 17th, 2012
3:47 pm
Saving six minutes in commute time obviously doesn’t drive T-Splost home for most voters.
Ray
July 17th, 2012
3:48 pm
Take the pork out, and try again. Streetcars and an air traffic control, what could they have possibly been thinking?!!!
Atlanta Native
July 17th, 2012
3:49 pm
Fact: If the clog at I-285 and I-20 is resolved (or the clog at I-75 and Windy Hill, or the clog at I-85 and I-285, or the clog on I-75 south in Henry County, all provided for in the referendum, it’s a big deal and well worth paying 1 cent on the dollar.
Fact: if I couldn’t get somewhere via transit before, but I can after one of the referendum transit projects are built, I don’t have to worry about road congestion on that route anymore
The alternative is to do what? Nothing? More tolls? This is a no-brainer “yes” to me.
md
July 17th, 2012
3:49 pm
Wonder if the guy heading to the voting station that just left the tanning salon and is smoking a cigarette while contemplating which higher rate credit card he’s going to use to pay for his new hc tax will really want to trust the gov’t on another new sales tax…………..
steve
July 17th, 2012
3:52 pm
VOTE NO FOR THIS TURKEY!! DOES 400 BRING BACK ANY MEMORIES? IF YOU THINK THAT THIS TAX WILL EVER GO AWAY, THEN I HAVE A BRIDGE TO SELL YOU…..
Hillbilly D
July 17th, 2012
3:53 pm
Thanks Kyle
Polls never have made much sense to me and this one is no different.
In the NE Region, If the T-SPLOST passes, 63% say that they believe traffic in their area would have little or no change. If the T-SPLOST doesn’t pass, 62%, say that would make little or no change in their area. In spite of that, the poll shows 40% for, 41% against and 19% uncertain.
I’ll never understand humans, if I live to be 100.
BW
July 17th, 2012
3:53 pm
Congratulations Kyle
Jefferson
July 17th, 2012
3:55 pm
A bigger bust would be the GOP takeover of GA, BTW.
md
July 17th, 2012
3:57 pm
“Fact: If the…..”
and “if” is the biggest word in that whole paragraph.
If a snail had legs, it wouldn’t leave a slimey trail every where it goes……
In my experience with 40+ years of Atl traffic, every time a fix was promised, it lasted about a fraction of the time it took to build the fix.
Let’s say the clogs are relieved and traffic is moving again at a decent pace…..one would say great right? That’s human nature……but so is getting back in the car because one is tired of having to wait for the dang bus, or missed that stupid train by a minute for the last time…..now that traffic is moving again, it’s time to drive again as it’s now more convenient…….
And that leads to…………
Michael H. Smith
July 17th, 2012
3:59 pm
No 52% for MARTA. Oh how sweet shall be its’ defeat, when this T-SPLOST goes T-SPLAT .
Ray
July 17th, 2012
4:01 pm
Atlanta Native,
That is how bad government works, they think you will swallow the whole pig, just to get that one bite you want. DON”T do it. Those projects you spoke of are worthy, and can be financed with a better bill.
Manny
July 17th, 2012
4:03 pm
The counties get next to no legislature funding for their roads today. The counties will just up your property taxes without the T-Splost. You will soon be taxed for infrastructure and pothole repair through some mechanism. You vote and you choose as it should be.
Aquagirl
July 17th, 2012
4:04 pm
I can’t possibly know how the projects would affect traffic in places I never visit, so I should vote based on what it would do in the places I do frequent — and trust that everyone else will do the same.
But people aren’t doing that, they’re freaking out over beltlines and control towers, or anything that’s not underneath their four wheels. That’s why question #2 is what will kill the T-SPLOST. Most people will get a couple of fixes in their area, and consider everything outside their world a waste of tax dollars. Two or three pluses and 40-50 minuses don’t equal a yes vote.
Which every political consultant is running the pro T-splost campaign should be fired and never allowed to work again. Losing by double digits with a huge spending advantage like this reeks of an amateur.
In addition to a huge spending advantage, it’s not like rocket science. Traffic here sucks, if you end up making a fix controversial you’re a complete idiot.
In defense of the consultants and advertising drones, they’ve got a crappy product to sell. The politicians handed them 20 pounds of B.S. in a 10 pound bag. It’s like handling the campaign for New Coke.
A reader
July 17th, 2012
4:07 pm
Probably the only reason I will vote on July 31 is because of TSPLOST. Most of the ballot is made up of uncontested judicial races. Regardless, I will be there to vote NO.
swing voter
July 17th, 2012
4:10 pm
This campaign is a bust. They are spending over $8 million on a campaign for 350,000 voters. That’s $22 per voter. The only other campaign to spend this type of money was Roy Barnes in 2002. He spent almost $20 million on 2 million voters. That was about $9.50 per voter.
Roy was on TV and every other media outlet for months before the election. The Metro campaign has just recently begun airing TV and radio ads. So the real question is where has all the money gone? Someone has a story to tell…
John Galt
July 17th, 2012
4:13 pm
It’s rather entertaining that the major reason some support this is because others will foot the bill for improvements in their community versus a property tax increase.
The “greater fool Theory” comes to mind.
This is not a free ride or a pile of found money. This is 1% of everything we purchase in the Metro area. When small businesses are already struggling to stay profitable, and when families are already struggling to make ends meet, we plan to squeeze them just a bit harder.
With many of the funds going to projects that have shown for decades they are unsustainable as they currently function.
We cannot afford this in 2012. We surely will not be able to afford this in 2013.
Vote No.
Bryasn Grant
July 17th, 2012
4:15 pm
This Tweet links to me own assessment of the T-SPlat. I live in Atlanta. This effort reeks of a transfer of money, not just from rural to urban counties, but from Urban Counties to Pavement Contractors who helped get Atlanta’s mayor and other urban officials elected. Try to find one project that COMMITS to actually executing anything related to tying the region together with Passenger Rail. Every reference, and there were only a few dealt with expensive yet minor expansions of MARTA that were already planned and mothballed balled 2.5 decades ago, and then only if there were extra money after the pavement projects are completed. I also LOVE the $700 million BUS expansion for Cobb and Cherokee form Arts Center in Atlanta. How do you possibly spend almost $1B on BUSSES? on a line that has been running for over 15 years?!?
Waste and more waste. Many new mansions will be built by the puppeteers of the Untie lobbyists trying to sham all of us out of our money.
“RT @bryangrant If you vote for #ATL Transportation Sales Tax, you’re being taken for a ride by the Metro Politico machine. http://ow.ly/bEKbd“
Ray
July 17th, 2012
4:16 pm
Blame Cobb, the City of Atlanta, and “those guys” trying hide the start of the “Northern Arc”, if this hog goes down. The educated voters, who wouldn’t lead like lemmings by any advertising, are going to speak.
Ray
July 17th, 2012
4:16 pm
Blame Cobb, the City of Atlanta, and “those guys” trying hide the start of the “Northern Arc”, if this hog goes down. The educated voters, who wouldn’t be lead like lemmings by any advertising, are going to speak.
JDW
July 17th, 2012
4:24 pm
O’ dear does this mean the Georgia Republican dominated state government will actually have to do their job? Don’t hold your breath folks this is another step on the road of Atlanta’s return to economic stagnation.
On the “bright side” it solidifies our position as the 49th ranked state in transportation spending…and the jobs keep rolling, rolling, rolling right on out of here.
Jefferson
July 17th, 2012
4:35 pm
Don’t think if this does not pass, the next plan might not be worse…
Road Scholar
July 17th, 2012
4:42 pm
Political Hack: Are you against capitalism? From what you propose, all PACS should be made illegal and abolished also?
Road Scholar
July 17th, 2012
4:46 pm
Common Sense: Why don’t you apply to the Citizens oversight committee (in the bill) to ensure proper expenditure on the project list, the projects are delivered on time and on budget, etc.?
Hillbilly D
July 17th, 2012
4:50 pm
In my experience with 40+ years of Atl traffic, every time a fix was promised, it lasted about a fraction of the time it took to build the fix.
And that won’t change because if traffic were to ease a bit, they would just move out a little bit and go for another round of wide open development. They haven’t learned a thing.
Road Scholar
July 17th, 2012
4:55 pm
I’m fixated on the comments about not trusting our legislators, local governments and GDOT. Since this is a predominate conservative state, the people who were elected are not trusted, i.e.Republicans. Those same legislators vote in each congressional districts for their rep on the GDOT Board, i.e. Republicans. The Board selects the GDOT Commissioner as well as the remainder of the upper echelon of management at GDOT i.e. Deputy Commissioner, Treasurer, Chief Engineer, etc. The Governor, a repub, selects the Planning Director at GDOT, who is responsible for project selection in not only the yearly program but also the TSPLOST programs around the state. It is safe to say the Planning Director is a repub.
The TSPLOST has a citizen review board which is to ensure the money is spent correctly, the projects on the list are delivered in a timely manner, and to be accountable to all the citizens. Since our decision makers are all repub, isn’t it safe to assume the CRB will be mostly, if not all repub.This is how this state works.
So if all decision makers, administrators, and program reviewers are repub, and they can not be trusted, then shouldn’t the anti’s leave their party, and begin another party that is self righteous, Christian only, and experts on everything. Their motto could be ( esp for the future TSPLOST) ” My Way or the Highway!”
How could the conservatives be so wrong as to elect these thieves and liars to office…repeatedly…?
Finally, the comment above about in the NE district, 140% return for Hall County- Maybe, due to population, commerce, traffic etc. Hall County has more congestion than the other counties? Huh? Hall County/Gainesville is the economic center of NE Georgia. If not…name me one larger?
Swann
July 17th, 2012
4:59 pm
They lost me when they kept the toll on 400 and then followed up the the PeachPass debacle. Won’t be supporting ANY additional SPLOSTs, school, transportation or otherwise. Raise the state sales tax rate to 5% and raise the income tax rate to 6.5% and let everyone share in the pain.
Hillbilly D
July 17th, 2012
5:01 pm
Finally, the comment above about in the NE district, 140% return for Hall County- Maybe, due to population, commerce, traffic etc. Hall County has more congestion than the other counties? Huh? Hall County/Gainesville is the economic center of NE Georgia. If not…name me one larger?
They also have enough votes to just about vote the tax in by themselves, which is the point. They get the sweet pot, so they profit from voting for it and let the other counties pay for it. That’s not fair, in my opinion. It’s not equal representation.
Since this is a predominate conservative state, the people who were elected are not trusted, i.e.Republicans.
I didn’t trust them when they were Democrats, either.
Red
July 17th, 2012
5:03 pm
If the Sierra Club, the NAACP, and the TEA party unite and line up against something like this-albeit for completely different reasons- it was flawed and doomed from the start.
Besides, I rather enjoy my 82 minutes of ‘ME’ time to and from work everyday. I don’t know if I could get by with only 76 minutes…
Road Scholar
July 17th, 2012
5:08 pm
Hillbilly: Didn’t the project list get defined through a committee that represented all counties and some cities in the area?
Michael H. Smith
July 17th, 2012
5:10 pm
It is hilarious to see the misguided underlying hope of the socialist democrats on this blog that misinterpret a healthy distrust of Republican politicians as an indicator for a potential democrat socialist liberal come back in this State.
BG
July 17th, 2012
5:10 pm
Based on: (a) the way gov’t wastes money; (b) GDOT’s removal of a normal travel lane on I-85; and (c) GDOT’s spending of any money to “study” adding toll lanes to GA 400 and to create bottlenecks with a shoulder lane on parts of GA 400, I wouldn’t vote to give it another penny at all. I don’t trust those folks, and plan to vote NO on the 31st.
John Galt
July 17th, 2012
5:17 pm
Road Scholar,
Do you actually believe that once enacted, that A CRB will have the authority to stop a project? And if so, who elected these people?
Can you name any GDOT projects that came in on time and under budget? Of course not.
Can you identify any GDOT projects that were cancelled once they were projected to exceed their original estimates by say, 20%?
Of course not.
Once again we stack layer upon layer of complexity, alleviating direct responsibility and accountability.
Vote No.
I see you are really big on these committees that defined the project list. Do you think they will be accountable in three years?
Of course not.
Vote No.
Grasshopper
July 17th, 2012
5:36 pm
The list of projects is a joke. It’s full of improvements and upgrades that we already pay taxes for. Vote no on this dog of a tax increase.
yuzeyurbrane
July 17th, 2012
5:39 pm
I propose that we cancel Artie Blank’s new taxpayer financed pleasure dome and use the funds saved to at least start funding those transportation projects that have merit. Or to hire back furloughed school teachers. Or just about any of a dozen other worthwhile things that need state financial backing.
Common Sense
July 17th, 2012
5:40 pm
I am somehow reminded of my kid coming home from school, and requesting funds from me for something at school that I have already funded via property taxes.
Jim
July 17th, 2012
5:48 pm
Hooray! With the failure of the T-SPLOST, we’ll be able to doom Atlanta to another generation of business unfriendly gridlock and congestion. Now I can dream about the extra penny I’ll save as I enjoy my hour-long commute every weekday morning and afternoon.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
July 17th, 2012
5:49 pm
“Why don’t you apply to the Citizens oversight committee (in the bill) to ensure proper expenditure on the project list, the projects are delivered on time and on budget, etc.?”
Silly Road Scholar. That “oversight” committee will be packed with hacks. That’s what government does – ensures a desired result despite what citizens actually want.
Michael H. Smith
July 17th, 2012
5:52 pm
I’ll be glad when this thing is defeated, perhaps then we can get an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT PLAN past.
1. Voters must vote on extending the T-SPLOST after a voter approved acceptable date.
2. No money for MARTA.
3. All money spent for passenger rapid rail service shall be for a Statewide system under State board authority.
That will at least get my favorable attention to wheel and deal on road projects.
Hillbilly D
July 17th, 2012
6:04 pm
Tiberius @ 5:49
Yeah, a lot like the DOT Board.
md
July 17th, 2012
6:05 pm
You ain’t seen nothing yet……..wait until Obamadoesntcare is fully enacted and the State is required to cover the cost of the program not covered by the feds………and folks are already complaining about furloughed teachers now……….
Michael H. Smith
July 17th, 2012
6:06 pm
Hillbilly D @ 6:04 pm
Or the MARTA Board.
John Galt
July 17th, 2012
6:17 pm
The irony is that if we thought we really were getting a bang for our bucks, we’d be throwing money at them for better transportation.
But for every dollar we spend we get about 50 cents worth of value.
Lack of accountability and a 10 year stream of revenue is what most rational folks call a recipe for fiscal disaster.
One only has to look at the first budget in Peachtree Corners(where they will be accountable in four years) to see just how fast folks are willing to waste Other People’s Money.
sheepdawg
July 17th, 2012
6:28 pm
great job reporting kyle — vote no to t-splost!!!
Road Scholar
July 17th, 2012
6:52 pm
Tib: What a defeatist attitude! Why not apply, and when you are not selected and see the selectees…make that comment. Be careful what you ask for…you may get selected ! If that attitude is ok than why criticize a poor person who might say…I’ll never get out of the poor house, I may as well not try! You are better than that! So are they!
John Galt:
1. Yes. The money limit is set. Projects that go over budget will be lessened in scope, or done away with. B) Do not understand the question.
2. The 17th Street Bridge and approaches contracts were delivered on time and constructed within the contract duration.The design phase was allotted 1/2 the usual time to prepare the design, do public involvement, get environmental approval, design a non typical bridge, etc. If GDOT could control/fine the utilities, and control the weather…Most Preconstruction screw-ups were manpower or information based.
3. Outer Perimeter (amongst other reasons). In the past the need was considered most important. Recently B/C ratios are done on all projects except enhancements .
4. That is an issue. With GDOT as lean as they are with personnel and talent due to retirements and ROF, consultants have and will play a huge part of the responsibility to deliver these projects on time and on/under budget. Now for the comments of consultants/contractors getting rich… You asked for reduction of staff of government and privatization. You got it! Now you pay higher overhead and profit in addition to the wages paid to consultants. They are not in business to lose money, or not grow their companies. Ya’ know …the real job creators. Small and large, minority and white….all(no matter what Sen Fort says) will be in a position to team with others to get the job done. The have to be prequalified with Ga DOT, which is a painless process if a company submits their honest business experience and personnel experience.
5. They are accountable NOW! They will stay accountable esp if you/the public/and the politicians keeps them accountable. If this would ever come to a vote again…they would still be accountable for the process adopted.
I also feel the same way on the CRC once they are selected!
Yes, I may be too optimistic for some…but I’d rather work towards the positive than take a defeatist attitude.I don’t see how some of the bloggers get out of bed in the morning! Maybe they have a laptop! Color me naive? OK. But color me successful, healthy and retired!
There are many dedicated competent people at GDOT. Yes, there are some who do not pull their fair share and earn their wages. But they are in the distinct minority of workers there. (That was NOT racial) They are younger. They are somewhat inexperienced compared to past years/regimes. But they can learn, perform, and deliver with quality, ethics, and on schedule, given the resources.
GDOT got criticized for the snow plan, or alledgedly a lack thereof, a few years ago. But you probably don’t remember the Olympics. You probably don’t remember the great floods in south Georgia in the 1990′ s, and some of the other weather related responses (hurricane evacuations, etc.), that went unnoticed. You typically speed by the HERO trucks assisting others, that is unless you’ve broken down. The people at GDOT CAN rise to the occasion if they are given your support. Not meant to be preachy, but this is how I feel based on experiences.
Michael Smith: Ah yes Michael…By Republican do you mean the rino’s, conservatives, true conservatives or only those you agree with? Oh and your mind reading is messed up. I said nothing about the dems coming back. Although as disorganized that they are, a comeback is the only alternative to staying inconsequential. Maybe a third party….
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
July 17th, 2012
7:12 pm
Road Scholar, remember, I worked in government. I’ve seen first-hand how these people operate.
I suspect you can’t make that same claim.
Samantha
July 17th, 2012
7:13 pm
The politicians that are pimping TSPLOST should have thought about the difficulties of actually selling the project to taxpayers. It seems the politicians were all too glad to get pet projects funded rather than driving to fix our traffic woes. Now that it’s time to face the voters they want to talk about how TSPLOST is all about helping traffic.
NONSENSE!
TSPLOST is about funding pet projects, a veneer of traffic projects and a massive involuntary reengineering of how Atlantans live and work. I am voting NO.
Kyle Wingfield
July 17th, 2012
7:25 pm
All: Here’s your nightly reminder that comments will be in moderation until tomorrow morning.
Road Scholar
July 17th, 2012
7:34 pm
Ti: Oh yes I can!
Cutty
July 17th, 2012
7:35 pm
The grand scheme thought of, and voted for by Republicans, will somehow end up being a democrat’s fault by the next election. Legislators are paid to make the tough decisions, not kick the can to a bunch of uneducated yahoos that see the word ‘tax’ and automatically say no. Had it been a ‘fee’ they would’ve all for it. Just like all the other fees the republicans have placed upon them.
Vote NO for TSPLOST !!!!
July 17th, 2012
8:06 pm
To Kyle Wingfield: You wrote to Atlanta Native: ” No, what I wrote is that congestion makes up only a small portion of the average commuter’s daily travel time — about 10 minutes out of an hour.”
Obviously you are not sitting in traffic in the morning’s from North Gwinnett County heading south to on I-85. What they have done to I-85 is ridiculous!!!! This added a good 30 mintues to a commute minimum…..between the 316 to I-85 South debacle, realigning Pleasant Hill Road exit, and then – of course – our PRECIOUS HOV -pay as you like- debacle. What our state has done here in Gwinnett County – I’ll kiss your foot if the T-SPLOST remotely flies by in GWINNETT!!
VOTE NO FOR THIS HORRIBLE T-SPLOST. Again, these politicians have not done their due diligence here on this at all – nor if anyone looks at the above have they in the past…I am sure the good folks who travel GA 400 everyday appreciate “still paying tolls!!!” NO for the T-SPLAT!!!
FURTHER – WE DO NOT WANT MARTA in GWINNETT. GWINNETT voters consistely voted out MARTA in this county and then our fine Commissioners voted in their own transit system – usurping the wishes of their constituents. Well they ALL WERE VOTED OUT after this happened years ago.
Intown
July 17th, 2012
9:43 pm
If this T-SPLOST fails you are going to see major projects in Atlanta shelved for a generation. You’re also going to see the region fragment — with the “winners” being a gain in political power by the northern suburbs to the detriment of the entire region and indirectly the state. Unless you like living in a gated community in a suburb of the Detroit of the South, I suggest you vote “yes.”
Shep
July 17th, 2012
10:01 pm
I am voting against this measure. It’s not just about the extra taxes but the fact that this is no more than a list of one-off cherry-picked projects that are going to do very little to address the overall traffic issues in the entire metro Atlanta area. First, we need to know exactly what the problem is that needs addressing, come up with a workable plan to address them and then find a way to fund and implement the infrastructure needed. This needs a coordiate state lead effort to address with real leaders will to make real decisions.
Shine
July 17th, 2012
11:47 pm
The Republican kooks can take back the latest round of corporate welfare dished out by the legislature and signed by kook Deal and fund some transportation projects. I am pennied to death with state, LOST, SPLOST, and ESPLOST sales taxes.
Ellis
July 17th, 2012
11:54 pm
Voting no for two reasons:
1. “Temporary” taxes never are. This was demonstrated very clearly when they failed to end the GA-400 toll. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
2. SRTA has not shown that they will do anything good with the money to free up traffic. This was demonstrated with the I-85 Peach-lane fiasco. They spent millions and made traffic worse.
No … I think the only thing a “yes” vote will do here is make things worse, and take money from the economy. As bad as it is now, it CAN get worse when the government tries to fix it.
Ralph Christian
July 18th, 2012
12:24 am
I am with “curious” above. Crooked Deal’s endorsement of it is enough to convince me to vote NO!!!! I’m sure he and his band are going to profit from a YES vote.
Pavel
July 18th, 2012
12:25 am
If you are thinking that if this proposal is defeated the legislature will go back and work on improving it, think again. The legislators are very risk averse and a defeat would make this topic politically toxic for the foreseeable future. Second, don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. With the exception of our freeway system, Atlanta’s transportation infrastructure is way undersized for a metro area of nearly 6 million people. This project list is not perfect but its the best our current leaders could assemble in this day and age. If we have any hope of moving froward as a society, we must remember the value of compromise.
SabrinaClarke
July 18th, 2012
4:09 pm
This election is going to be a close one but I don’t think that people fully realize this referendum will have on the region. No one likes a tax increase but to make the drastic improvements that our region needs this is the best plan set forth. The only alternatives that we would have would be more hot lanes and more toll roads. What we have done thus far is not working but is only a band aid for the issue.
Al of Cumming
July 24th, 2012
7:54 am
This gets a “NO” vote from everyone in our family. I cannot think of a more regressive tax than this one. It hits those who can least afford it the most. A plan B needs to be developed that puts more of the cost of highway improvements right on the users in the form of increased gasoline taxes and/or registration fees. Our family has two vehicles, driving them a total of about 5000 miles per year because we work out of our home and do not commute. It is unfair to expect us to pay another 1% for everything we buy because we make very little use of the highway system during peak traffic hours. Another issue involves where the money is to be spent. Why spend about 52% of the dollars collected to benefit the roughly 5% of those who use public transportation? That is not responsible use of tax dollars from my perspective.
2012 Tuesday: Millions of dollars might not buy a T-SPLOST | Kyle Wingfield
July 24th, 2012
9:18 am
[...] yet, according to every recent opinion poll, it’s trailing. In all but the one done for the pro-tax campaign itself, it’s trailing [...]