Taking a look at some T-SPLOST claims
The closer we get to the July 31 T-SPLOST referendum, it seems, the more claims we hear from the pro-tax campaign about its supposed benefits. Here’s the low-down on four common claims made about the $7.2 billion tax and the 157 projects it would fund.
1. Metro Atlanta commuters already pay a “congestion tax” of $924 a year.
This figure, taken from a study by the Texas Transportation Institute, accounts for the cost of wasting fuel and time in traffic. T-SPLOST supporters argue this is an indirect “tax” on commuters, and that the 1 percent sales tax will mitigate it.
Perhaps. But they don’t acknowledge the average household stands to pay more if the T-SPLOST passes.
Commuters aren’t the only people who would pay the sales tax, so let’s look at households. Based on Census data about commuters (see page 29) and household size in the 10-county region, the household “congestion tax” would be $986 a year. A study by the Atlanta Regional Commission found the projects funded by the tax would cut congestion by 24 percent at most. So, we can expect the household “congestion tax” to fall by no more than 24 percent, or $237.
Given state revenue estimates (see second table), each household’s share of the tax would start at $447.
Of course, visitors would pay some of the $447. But if residents foot even half the bill, the savings from the “congestion tax” is just a wash. If residents bear a larger share of the burden, the T-SPLOST plus the remaining “congestion tax” will cost more than what tax supporters say we pay now.
2. The T-SPLOST will get you home faster.
The very same data used for the “congestion tax” show congestion adds relatively little to the average commute: up to 10 minutes of the hour a typical commuter spends in the car every day. Sheer distance between home and work accounts for the rest of the time.
If congestion were to fall by 24 percent, then, the average commute would shrink by less than 2.5 minutes a day — only about a minute each way.
3. The T-SPLOST will be an economic boost.
You can’t spend $7.2 billion without improving the economy, right? It’s the same theory, writ small, President Barack Obama used to justify his 2009 “stimulus” package.
But taking money out of one part of the economy and putting it in another is an awfully inefficient path to economic growth — at best. And make no mistake: Money that goes to the T-SPLOST is money that won’t go to local businesses.
Worse, it doesn’t even fit the (questionable) idea of stimulating the economy by moving future consumption into the present. Projected timelines for the projects indicate that, in the first three years, the tax will collect $1.72 billion for regional projects — but spend just $812 million. The other half of the money will be pushed into the future. It’s unlikely the spending would catch up with the tax collections until 2018.
That might be a prudent way to plan infrastructure spending, but it looks like a half-decade drag on the economy.
4. There’s no “Plan B.”
As I’ve argued before, this claim ignores the possibility of voting again on a better project list in two years. In fact, the only thing that truly precludes another option is the T-SPLOST.
That’s because we will have used the biggest available revenue-raising tool. Even if the projects prove ineffective, our only option will be to renew the tax — or find another way to pay the tens of millions of dollars a year in operating costs for the transit projects this tax will create. If we OK this tax, we likely will be stuck with it, and without other options, for decades.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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368 comments Add your comment
@@
July 15th, 2012
7:39 pm
Reporter a/k/a Andy:
It’s not important, I’m easily distracted.
Monica (Kaufman) Pearson
@@
July 15th, 2012
7:41 pm
Egyptian protesters threw tomatoes and shoes at U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s motorcade Sunday and shouted, “Monica, Monica, Monica” as she left the newly reopened U.S. Consulate in Alexandria.
Who’s Monica, Monica, Monica?
Lewinsky?
Hillbilly D
July 15th, 2012
8:01 pm
@@
I never have seen why people get so excited about somebody reading the news.
RW-(the original)
July 15th, 2012
8:04 pm
Hillbilly D,
I suspect that gameday made some change that makes the whole page look like an ad. Possibly those ads that are now on the scoreboard, but the only people that would know what is different now would be people that didn’t use Adblock before or somebody that uses IE.
Hillbilly D
July 15th, 2012
8:09 pm
RW
Okay. Thanks for the help. I passed the info along on the baseball blogs.
RW-(the original)
July 15th, 2012
8:37 pm
‘Testicle-eating’ fish caught
That’s a headline over on msn dot com and I have no reason to believe reading the story wouldn’t clear things up, but the headline alone is too good to bother with the story. For instance was this fish caught in the act or hooked like any other fish catch and if it was hooked was the headline a clue about the bait.
The mind boggles. Y’all have a pleasant week.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 15th, 2012
8:44 pm
According to CBS News White House correspondent Mark Knoller, Obama told supporters there were “paralegals” available to help those who felt weak from the heat.
Yeah, sue the Sun.
@@
July 15th, 2012
8:48 pm
Hillbilly:
I’m a curious sort.
@@
July 15th, 2012
8:51 pm
Hillbilly:
I’m also amazed at those folks who would tear down a perfectly good house, just to build a different one. Shute! Mrs. Pearson house is too big for two people. Maybe she likes to entertain.
Better her than me.
Any gatherings I have are usually impromptu…no invitations. They just happen.
@@
July 15th, 2012
8:52 pm
Actually, I’m looking to downsize.
Hillbilly D
July 15th, 2012
8:55 pm
I’m also amazed at those folks who would tear down a perfectly good house, just to build a different one.
Some folks like to put on the dog. I always figured it was because they were insecure. Who gives a rat’s patootie what anybody else thinks about ya. As a friend of mine’s Mama once said, when somebody noted that she wasn’t dressed up, “If anybody don’t like the way I look, they can turn their damn head and look the other way”. (IW&SH)
Mark in mid-town
July 15th, 2012
9:05 pm
in response to Bruno at 4:45 PM: — I would prefer living in Atlanta over DC as well. But the larger point I was trying to make is that today’s most talented young people don’t aspire to a suburban lifestyle the way the prior generation did. They increasingly want to live in the city and want mass-transit options.
Demography is destiny. The metro areas that invest in transportation will have the upper hand at attracting talented young people and the businesses that employ them. The metro areas that are the most successful in attracting the largest shares of talented young people are the areas that will have the brightest futures.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that Atlanta is falling behind the metro areas we compete with in terms of attracting this talent. It would be best if we had visionary conservative leaders in government who stepped up to the plate and funded needed transportation projects so that we didn’t have to rely on things such as T-SPLOST. At one time, Atlanta region and Georgia probably had such visionary conservative leadership. We don’t anymore.
I can’t think of a leader less visionary than Sonny Perdue was. I think he was a disaster for the long-term prospects of the state and Atlanta region and is the primary reason we have fallen behind those cities we compete with, whereas we used to be far ahead of such cities.
Regardless, the political situation in this state is what it is. There is no viable alternative to T-SPLOST that’s anywhere near on the horizon. If we vote it down, while our population will still grow, we will drive many of the most talented young people and most promising companies elsewhere. The growth will largely be among 2nd tier talent and companies, rather than the top tier.
That will still be better than many places, but we have the potential to be among the best. To not understand that voting down T-SPLOST will drive top oung talent elsewhere in the future is short-sighted and outright stupid, imo.
Back in the 1980s and 1990s, the Atlanta region was 2nd to none at attracting top young talent from other parts of the country. Now we drive too much of such top talent away. And when we drive such talented young people away, it also cascades up as given a choice, parents would prefer to live near their children as well.
So when we drive increasing shares of talented young people away, we also increase the likelihood that their parents will leave the region or not move here as well, and chances are the parents of such people are far more affluent on average as well. The cumulative net-effect of all that is a region with lower incomes and lower opportunity, even if the population is still increasing.
@@
July 15th, 2012
9:06 pm
“If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen,” he said.
Huh!!??!! Did he REALLY say that!!??!!
That ain’t good.
bu2
July 15th, 2012
9:45 pm
Houston and Austin are two of the fastest growing cities in the country. Both are doing massive road building programs and have a small light rail line. The idea that having rail systems is the only way to growth is mindless fiction. Younger people have always tended to use more mass transit. Then they earn some money and buy a car. They get a family and can’t waste time in mass transit.
In any event this plan, instead of expanding our MARTA system, builds trendy light rail toy trains that MARTA can’t afford to support and don’t do much for mobility.
Unlike cities like Austin and Houston which come up with a plan and then figure out how to fund it, Atlanta politicians came up with the money and then tried to figure out which pet project to spend it on. Those of you who say we should vote for this because there is no Plan B are PART OF THE PROBLEM. You enable the incompetent politicians. And the Republicans in control here are almost all former Democrats who simply changed their label, so they are as corrupt as the people labelled Democrats they replaced (well maybe not as corrupt as the Democrats who still run Fulton and Dekalb and MARTA).
md
July 15th, 2012
11:13 pm
“They increasingly want to live in the city and want mass-transit options. ”
And then they get married and have kids and want out…….which is why the burbs became the burbs……..
Bruno
July 15th, 2012
11:58 pm
Back in the 1980s and 1990s, the Atlanta region was 2nd to none at attracting top young talent from other parts of the country. Now we drive too much of such top talent away. And when we drive such talented young people away, it also cascades up as given a choice, parents would prefer to live near their children as well.
Mark–I appreciate the sincerity of your concerns, but am not convinced quite yet that mass transit is the end-all be-all that it is in other cities. For starters, there’s still plenty of parking in Atlanta, differently from LA or Chicago. Though keeping a car is somewhat costly, it’s still a viable option in Atlanta. Compared to the rest of the country, gas is fairly cheap here as well.
As far as talented young people not wanting to live in Atlanta, I’ll need to see more than your one anecdotal example to believe that. As for the companies that might potentially hire them, I don’t think MARTA is the big draw either. Most likely taxes heads the list, so adding more probably isn’t the best solution.
Since I don’t live in Atlanta anymore, I don’t have a dog in the MARTA fight. Here in Columbus, I’ll be voting “no” to T-SPLOST since our roads are in good shape and traffic is minimal.
Bruno
July 16th, 2012
12:00 am
Heading off to bed, but kudos to everyone this weekend for keeping the conversations civil. I hope Kyle builds enough confidence in the group to keep the blog open on nights and weekends again.
SabrinaClarke
July 16th, 2012
12:17 am
We must work on ways to improve our transportation infrastructure now. I will be voting yes and will be encouraging others to do so as well. Voting no will only make our traffic worse.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
July 16th, 2012
7:31 am
I wonder why those TSPLOST commercials aren’t touting the congestion-relieving improvements to McCollum Field, the general aviation airport in Kennesaw.
killerj
July 16th, 2012
7:45 am
VOTE NO,as usual this tax will will go to those who wait like vultures for money that they know will be unaccountable in the future,they cant even regulate what they have now with piss poor management,just looking at all the BILLIONS of Fed money for thirty years plus they linened there pockets with makes me sick with absolutely know improvements in traffic around this city.
mottlicher
July 16th, 2012
7:56 am
This simple folks…the project list is so large due to the number of constituencies in the ARC. It does provide for a larger mixture of transportation choices as the intown are growing and are getting denser (this will continue btw, their needs will have to be addressed) and as we continue to grow in the suburbs. This is needed.
As far as Plan B…..given the political realities of this area…that is very simple. TOLL ROADS…most all new large scale projects will have to have tolls….the changing funding options make this a certainty if there is not a Tsplost. Take your choice….many improvement projects in the near future with the Tsplost….or a small handful of projects with tolls.
fair and balanced
July 16th, 2012
7:57 am
Vote No.
If the issue is the daily commute, put more tolls on the damn roads into Atlanta like up North to fund transportation needs of commuters . Stop wasting all that Marta revenue on special ADA buses that act as private limousine services when all the buses are ADA equipped.(Because someone sued Marta in the early nineties when buses were not ADA equipped). Another unfunded mandate with unnitended consequences.I would love to have MARTA pick me up at my house.(There are private services that do that)
Atlanta residents already pay extra sales tax for MARTA. This is just a way to get them to pay more so the state does not have to contribute.
JDW
July 16th, 2012
8:00 am
@LBB…”Yes, I do recall that the America-hating left and the media (pardon the triple redundancy) saw great meaning in the throwing of shoes at Our President Bush. My guess is that today’s incident gets scant attention.”
Bit of a difference in tossing them at a car as it rolls by in a motorcade versus whizzing them by the head of a President from the back of the room…don’t you think.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
July 16th, 2012
8:16 am
No, it’s worse because they were also throwing tomatoes and taunting the pig with chants of “Monica!”
What an embarrassment.
A Conservative Voice
July 16th, 2012
8:18 am
@Road Scholar
July 13th, 2012
8:19 pm
Education has never been this states’ strength , has it! Just how do you propose to educate the public about the tax/vote?
Hey, Road Scholar – you gonna be without a job when this whole boondoggle fails miserably?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
July 16th, 2012
8:19 am
JDW, do you agree with Obozo’s claim that small business owners aren’t responsible for their own success?
Your guy is either a moron or a communist. We know he’s an America-hater.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 16th, 2012
8:24 am
One guy threw the shoe.
A mob threw the tomatoes and the taunts.
Spin it any way you want, libby.
Sideline Dude
July 16th, 2012
8:46 am
It’s a tax I don’t want & have already voted against it. Another tax for shady politicians to play with. Not for me.
@@
July 16th, 2012
8:50 am
Liar? Felon?
Obama’s in trouble. The fact that his negative campaign is having an impact only goes to show how gullible some voters can be.
@@
July 16th, 2012
9:07 am
In an interview with CBS News, President Obama says he needs another term so that his policies can “congeal.”
You jellin? He’s jellin’ with 8.2% unemployment.
schnirt
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 16th, 2012
9:40 am
I know a way we could cut our taxes-
In 2010, an OTC employee “misused” government resources to solicit prostitutes on three separate occasions via Craigslist. While working at the OTC, investigators said the government staffer “viewed websites offering erotic services on a weekly basis as well as communicating with and arranging meetings with women offering erotic services.”
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
July 16th, 2012
9:41 am
You jellin? He’s jellin’ with 8.2% unemployment.
Which is pretty dang good considering it was at 10 and rising shortly after he took office.
Its gonna take more than 4 years to clean up the steaming pile of poo Bush left on the doorstep.
Road Scholar
July 16th, 2012
10:11 am
A Conservative Voice: No I won’t since I am retired. But I do help entities with pro bono program reviews and laissoning with others. I have been in the business for over 36 years; when you are at something that long, I would hope you would know something about it! Nice try! Besides some actually make a living at this! Isn’t that capitalism? It was my area of interest and making a living. So are you against that to? That I must conform to your values, interests, or go away or that I’m wrong?
I just watched the “tape” of the dialogue chaired by the AJC. Steve Brown (Fayette Co) made a comment that the government in the region has not created incentives for teleworking! What? More government handouts? Doesn’t a business know that to hire , keep, and develop productive employees , it needs to use all the tools in the tool box including teleworking. The incentive is the return from the employee since personal commute times are eliminated or reduced, stress is reduced not having to be in traffic, disruptions to their work are minimized, and, in general, the employee gets more done in the same work period. Try it, you’ll like it. It does not mean that employee does not need to be supervised or their performance measured. They did it w/o government incentives during the Olympics! Did we learn anything?
Another point made was that the tax was regressive.It hits the poor unfairly. It does not tax Vehicle Miles Traveled or gas or road/transit usage. Just how does the food they eat, the clothes they wear, the maintenance of their homes or apartments, etc. get to their locations? By truck or car folks!
independent thinker
July 16th, 2012
10:29 am
Hey Repubs -when are you going to wake up and tell Romney -no tax returns -no nomination. You going to elect again a person possibly guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors l like in 1972 when Nixon got reelected and was forced to resign or be impeached. Just remeber Geithner and Obama got his returns and could initiate an audit or investigation at any time. I bet that has Willard awake at night. Several of your own like Gov. Reilly in Alabama(no moderate) are saying something is fishy if Mitt’s hiding the returns. nd then there are those SEC filings and that IRA.
independent thinker
July 16th, 2012
10:30 am
Enter your comments here
Mark in mid-town
July 16th, 2012
10:48 am
You jellin? He’s jellin’ with 8.2% unemployment.
Which is pretty dang good considering it was at 10 and rising shortly after he took office.
———————————————-
Actually, when weighting for the same work-force particpation rate as when Obama took office, the current unemployment rate would really be about 11%, not 8.2%. To the astute observers who understand how the unemployment rate is calculated, it means the percentage of those with jobs has actually decreased since Obama took office. But since the job situation has been so abysmal, millions of additional people have dropped out of looking for a job altogether, and thus aren’t included in the offficial unemployment rate, yet for all intents and purposes, they are every bit as unemployed as those actively looking for work who can’t find jobs.
DawgDad
July 16th, 2012
11:00 am
“point I was trying to make is that today’s most talented young people don’t aspire to a suburban lifestyle the way the prior generation did. They increasingly want to live in the city and want mass-transit options”
First, in general I don’t agree with you. Second, even if you are right, let them live there and finance their own local transportation. Keeps them off the highways. This has nothing much to do with T-SPLOST, except to the extent these people are looking for a handout (funding for their local transportation).
md
July 16th, 2012
11:09 am
“Bit of a difference in tossing them at a car as it rolls by in a motorcade versus whizzing them by the head of a President from the back of the room…don’t you think.”
Personally, no….I think the intent is the same in both instances……..
Dusty
July 16th, 2012
11:13 am
Cheesy, 9:41
If I were you, I’d not mention your imaginary “pile of poo” that Bush left when the mountain of debt growing under Obama will have many generations trying to pay it off ( if he doesn’t sink us altogether).
and Independent Thinker, 10:30
If I were you I’d not mention “scandals” like Nixons’s tapes and departure when you got the steaming screaming Clinton on record with a youthful girlfriend in the Oval Office and lies flowing forth in abundance.
Better not throw mud when you are sitting in your own mudhole. Silly libs! Romney looks like Mr. Clean compared to the record given us the last three and a half year by President Obama’s ineptitutde. A few more years of him and Americans will be sneaking across the border to Mexico looking for jobs.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
July 16th, 2012
11:13 am
Has President Romney submitted everything required by law? If so, mind your own business. Whining about tax returns isn’t going to fix your guy’s 8% unemployment or $1.5 trillion deficits.
JDW
July 16th, 2012
11:16 am
@LBB…”JDW, do you agree with Obozo’s claim that small business owners aren’t responsible for their own success?”
I think you are deliberately being obtuse or don’t have a clue as to what it takes to succeed in business.
The small business owner is responsible for the creation, direction and execution within their company. In a very small enterprise they are wholly responsible for its success. However as any business scales the employees contribute more and more to the success of the enterprise. Almost without exception anyone who has grown a business of any size recognizes this contribution and understands that the biggest success factor involved is the people they hire and retain.
md
July 16th, 2012
11:16 am
“Whining about tax returns isn’t going to fix your guy’s 8% unemployment or $1.5 trillion deficits.”
Another based on intent……..the intent is nothing more than distraction, and for the memo crowd it’s working. Evil rich guy with money………..poor testament to today’s society.
getalife
July 16th, 2012
11:18 am
Are you cons really going to vote for another tax?
But your ideology is no taxes and no regulations.
Too funny.
md
July 16th, 2012
11:21 am
“Almost without exception anyone who has grown a business of any size recognizes this contribution and understands that the biggest success factor involved is the people they hire and retain.”
Yet they also understand that gov’t interference plays a role as well…..such as minimum wage.
If a corp only has xx number of dollars to spend on salaries and benefits, then dictating wages also dictates the number of employees a corp can afford……..vs possibly hiring more.
Is it better to have 5 employed at xx dollars and hour or 6 at slightly less?
That one person added to many corps around the country would go along way in putting people to work.
getalife
July 16th, 2012
11:22 am
Speaking of taxes, willard should release all tax forms like his daddy and admit he has Latino roots.
md
July 16th, 2012
11:24 am
Like Bruno, I already solved my traffic problem in Atl…..I left. But since I don’t live there but like to visit, I’m voting no……:)
Dusty
July 16th, 2012
11:25 am
getalife,
What? Hallucinations again?
JDW
July 16th, 2012
11:27 am
@LBB…”Has
PresidentRomney submitted everything required by law? If so, mind your own business. Whining about tax returns isn’t going to fix your guy’s 8% unemployment or $1.5 trillion deficits.”As George Will said…
“Romney must have something in the returns that he doesn’t want people to see and concluded that the risks of releasing the documents outweigh the risks of not releasing them.”
BTW…do you know where I can get a job like Romney’s at Bain…you know one where you are the sole shareholder, CEO, President and make millions a year but don’t have to do any work?
JDW
July 16th, 2012
11:29 am
@LBB…”Has
PresidentRomney submitted everything required by law? If so, mind your own business. Whining about tax returns isn’t going to fix your guy’s 8% unemployment or $1.5 trillion deficits.”As George Will said…
“Romney must have something in the returns that he doesn’t want people to see and concluded that the risks of releasing the documents outweigh the risks of not releasing them.”
BTW…do you know where I can get a job like Romney’s at Bain…you know one where you are the sole shareholder, CEO, President and make millions a year but don’t have to do any work?
JDW
July 16th, 2012
11:30 am
And that is why I hire HTML people