Taking a look at some T-SPLOST claims
The closer we get to the July 31 T-SPLOST referendum, it seems, the more claims we hear from the pro-tax campaign about its supposed benefits. Here’s the low-down on four common claims made about the $7.2 billion tax and the 157 projects it would fund.
1. Metro Atlanta commuters already pay a “congestion tax” of $924 a year.
This figure, taken from a study by the Texas Transportation Institute, accounts for the cost of wasting fuel and time in traffic. T-SPLOST supporters argue this is an indirect “tax” on commuters, and that the 1 percent sales tax will mitigate it.
Perhaps. But they don’t acknowledge the average household stands to pay more if the T-SPLOST passes.
Commuters aren’t the only people who would pay the sales tax, so let’s look at households. Based on Census data about commuters (see page 29) and household size in the 10-county region, the household “congestion tax” would be $986 a year. A study by the Atlanta Regional Commission found the projects funded by the tax would cut congestion by 24 percent at most. So, we can expect the household “congestion tax” to fall by no more than 24 percent, or $237.
Given state revenue estimates (see second table), each household’s share of the tax would start at $447.
Of course, visitors would pay some of the $447. But if residents foot even half the bill, the savings from the “congestion tax” is just a wash. If residents bear a larger share of the burden, the T-SPLOST plus the remaining “congestion tax” will cost more than what tax supporters say we pay now.
2. The T-SPLOST will get you home faster.
The very same data used for the “congestion tax” show congestion adds relatively little to the average commute: up to 10 minutes of the hour a typical commuter spends in the car every day. Sheer distance between home and work accounts for the rest of the time.
If congestion were to fall by 24 percent, then, the average commute would shrink by less than 2.5 minutes a day — only about a minute each way.
3. The T-SPLOST will be an economic boost.
You can’t spend $7.2 billion without improving the economy, right? It’s the same theory, writ small, President Barack Obama used to justify his 2009 “stimulus” package.
But taking money out of one part of the economy and putting it in another is an awfully inefficient path to economic growth — at best. And make no mistake: Money that goes to the T-SPLOST is money that won’t go to local businesses.
Worse, it doesn’t even fit the (questionable) idea of stimulating the economy by moving future consumption into the present. Projected timelines for the projects indicate that, in the first three years, the tax will collect $1.72 billion for regional projects — but spend just $812 million. The other half of the money will be pushed into the future. It’s unlikely the spending would catch up with the tax collections until 2018.
That might be a prudent way to plan infrastructure spending, but it looks like a half-decade drag on the economy.
4. There’s no “Plan B.”
As I’ve argued before, this claim ignores the possibility of voting again on a better project list in two years. In fact, the only thing that truly precludes another option is the T-SPLOST.
That’s because we will have used the biggest available revenue-raising tool. Even if the projects prove ineffective, our only option will be to renew the tax — or find another way to pay the tens of millions of dollars a year in operating costs for the transit projects this tax will create. If we OK this tax, we likely will be stuck with it, and without other options, for decades.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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368 comments Add your comment
Michael H. Smith
July 15th, 2012
10:06 am
What is the minimum income level specified in the tax code to qualify for that?
Oh the example was more than good enough to satisfy the underlying inference of your claim without a dollar certain amount being attached. Unless of course you expect me and others to take a facetious penny certain challenge serious.
To avoid taxation as the two prominent names I’ve used so far as examples would preclude most anyone without near equal wealth or incomes of a Bruce Springsteen or a Jon Bon Jovi. My statement stands: If you want to find those subsidies or deduction you’ll have to earn the kind of money it takes to have some crafty CPA and Tax lawyer help you take advantage of them most likely.
Yet my challenge of doing away with all subsidies and deductions for everyone hasn’t been met and I doubt that it ever will, even in the face of financial collapse. However it is the best possible solution to tax reform – i.e. Everyone has skin in the game so to speak and no one’s hide is spared a centimeter from the tax knife by some darn special tax exclusion or exemption, subsidy, deduction, write-off, loophole, incentive or shelter.
Michael H. Smith
July 15th, 2012
10:12 am
Nice thing about these so-called experts is they never have to face the voters who so often have proven them wrong.
Michael H. Smith
July 15th, 2012
10:15 am
Off to support a local AJC advertiser. I mean they gotta pay for this blog some way besides lobbying for a government subsidy.
Later…
JamVet
July 15th, 2012
10:15 am
As for facing voters, ditto, we pontificating bloggers and habitual naysayers…
Bruno
July 15th, 2012
10:21 am
In case any of you missed it, Cynthia Tucker continues to pollute the planet with her “Republican Whites Are Racists” rants, now linking opposition to ObamaCare with hatred for blacks:
http://news.yahoo.com/racism-tinges-opposition-obamacare-050012367.html?_esi=1
From the article:
“Social scientists have concluded that many conservative white voters harbor a racial animosity that fuels their opposition to certain forms of government largess, especially if they believe it benefits the undeserving (black) poor. Political scientists Donald Kinder and Lynn Sanders, authors of “Divided by Color: Racial Politics and Democratic Ideals,” call it a “subtle prejudice for modern times.”
That helps explain why working-class whites are especially hostile to the Affordable Care Act. Polls show that they are among the groups most likely to believe that health care reform will benefit someone else, not them.
They’re wrong, of course. Working-class voters — white, black and brown — are among those who will benefit most. Professionals either get insurance at the office or can afford their own policies. The very poor are eligible for Medicaid. But people employed in jobs that don’t require a college degree are more likely to be stranded by the high costs of health care.
If the law is fully implemented, those voters may eventually figure out what a benefit they’ve received from Obamacare. But a cadre of Republican governors has insisted that won’t happen; they are prepared to take a figurative stand in the schoolhouse door against the law, even though the Supreme Court has upheld it.”
Bruno
July 15th, 2012
10:25 am
By all reasonable accounts, Georgia ranks 49th in transportation spending among U.S. states.
If you flip that statement around, Michael, you could just as well say that Georgia is #2 in saving money on useless transportation projects.
On a serious notes, the roads in GA are waaaaay better than the roads in just about any Northern state. Weather is a big factor, of course.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
July 15th, 2012
10:27 am
Now that Tucker no longer works for the AJC and is a public figure, it’s safe to call her what she is.
A racist idiot.
Bruno
July 15th, 2012
10:31 am
Now that Tucker no longer works for the AJC and is a public figure, it’s safe to call her what she is.
Was it not safe to call her out prior to her departure from the AJC?? I remembered being astounded when she admitted in print that a full 25% of her columns centered on (white) racism. Talk about a one-trick pony…….
Bruno
July 15th, 2012
10:39 am
Also, special for JamVet: In their book, “Top Screwups Doctor’s Make and How to Avoid Them”, authors Joe and Teresa Graedon estimate that medical errors result in the death of 500,000 people per year in the US. Kind of pales in comparison to the estimated figure of 40,000 people who die for lack of medical care that you like to throw around……
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
July 15th, 2012
10:49 am
Was it not safe to call her out prior to her departure from the AJC??
—————————
Not if Bookman’s blog is any indication.
Bruno
July 15th, 2012
10:53 am
Bookman’s blog
LBB–Did you forget the “no obscenity” rule here at Kyle’s??
On a serious note, if Kyle will tolerate me and my music entries, I think we can build a conservative community here. Right now, we just have a collection of folks, many of whom don’t really like each other. A little fun and a little music will go a long way toward bringing people together. Regardless of our various political positions, we’re all in this thing together……..
middle of the road
July 15th, 2012
10:59 am
One big thing that is killing TSPLOST is the Georgia 400 debacle. When the 1% sales tax has been in place 10 years, and gets ready to drop off (because as some people argue, the bonds are fixed), the politicians will say “people have been paying this 1% tax for years so they are used to it and won’t care if we extend it.” Same as with the Georgia 400 toll. IT WILL NEVER EXPIRE, BECAUSE GOVERNMENT WON’T CUT OFF A TAX REVENUE SOURCE.
Bruno
July 15th, 2012
11:16 am
Same as with the Georgia 400 toll. IT WILL NEVER EXPIRE, BECAUSE GOVERNMENT WON’T CUT OFF A TAX REVENUE SOURCE.
middle of the road–Of course, you are correct. Politicians are attracted to government because they like power, and more money to spend = more power. At the same time, about half of our population, the liberal half, is convinced that a large, centralized government leads to a better life for the populace. As such, they continue to vote for the big spenders, especially if they think that someone else will be forced to foot the bill (the “rich).
R.Mann
July 15th, 2012
11:30 am
I am against any added tax , simply because of the current fuel / road use taxes collected less than 47 % of it is actually spent on roads. The Government wastes the rest of the tax dollars on special interest projects. If the Government would spend the money on what a tax was/is for in the first place, we as commuters wouldn’t be sitting in traffic right now.
Dusty
July 15th, 2012
11:56 am
Well, good morning, it’s a kinda cool Sunday morning. I was at church this morning and guess to whom my thoughts wandered? The “music lover members” of this blog! That’s who! And Why? Because we were singing “My life Flows On in Endless Song”
I would say that most people enjoy a song whether you are a Christian or not, as this hymn suggests. But I think you will like the words too, with your own connotations.
MY LIFE FLOWS ON IN ENDLESS SONG or How can I keep from singing?
Music and text by Robert Lowry 1826-1899
My life flows on in endless song,
Above earth’s lamentation.
I catch the sweet, though far off hymn
That hails a new creation.
Through all the tumult and the strife
I hear the music ringing,
It finds an echo in my soul,
How can I keep from singing?
What though my joys and comforts die?
The Lord my Savior liveth.
What thought the darkness gather round?
Songs in the night he giveth.
The peace of Christ makes fresh my song,
A fountain ever springing.
All things are mine since I am his,
How can I keep from singing?
Refrain
No storm can shake my inmost calm
While to the rock I’m clinging.
Since Christ is Lord of heaven and earth,
How can I keep from singing?
—————————————-
I hope you enjoy this hymn and keep your own personal song going… That is the reason I send it to you. Not exactly T-SPLOST for sure…
@@
July 15th, 2012
11:58 am
a little music will go a long way toward bringing people together.
thbbpppttt
retiredds
July 15th, 2012
12:06 pm
Plan B is simple: increasing traffic congestion over the next 10-15 years and more toll (targeted tax) roads. Won’t solve much without significant transit options and you can bet the businesses who are looking to relocate will by-pass the Atlanta area for those modern cities who are investing in a more transit oriented infrastructure (Charlotte, Denver, Dallas). Let’s not forget that most of the people who are against the T-Splost brought this traffic mess on themselves because they rejected balanced transit options in favor of roads and more roads.
I, quite frankly, don’t have an ax to grind as I live in an intown area that is serviced by 3 Marta bus lines that connect to rail nearby, a university shuttle system, and more and more bicycle lanes each year. Don’t really need a car to get around but have one as a convenience only (drive it about 3 days a week on average).
I will vote “yes” as it is a great second step (the first was MARTA rail) toward a more sensible transportation system for the Metro area.
Dusty
July 15th, 2012
12:14 pm
Awww come on, @@. thbbpppttt? Not even a little song?
We’ve pulled all the shots…for TSPLOST! So all we gots…are some lil’ song spots!!
RW-(the original)
July 15th, 2012
12:27 pm
Hillbilly D,
If you happen to come by it looks like AdBlock Plus actually is the culprit causing gameday not to load. I’m not sure what individual script it is, but you can disable it for the mlb page and then gameday loads fine.
@@
July 15th, 2012
12:36 pm
Music’s fine. It’s the bringing together part that gets a thbbpppttt.
Tap Out
July 15th, 2012
12:38 pm
How’s voting republican working out for you construction workers? Not so good huh?
No More Money
July 15th, 2012
1:01 pm
Eldrin Bell and Burell Ellis arent going to get another dime of my money. Bloated county governments, school systems that are the laffing stock of the state and they want money for traffic? Lets face it…..African Americans cant run/manage anything with success. Look at our country, look at our city, look at our schools. Any questions?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
July 15th, 2012
1:11 pm
Tap Out: How’s voting republican working out for you construction workers?
————————-
Republicans didn’t put Obozo in office. Remember that $800 billion stimulus and the shovel ready jobs?
How did THAT work out for the construction trades?
Obozo blew it all buying off his union buddies in the government worker’s unions. If we really had to borrow those hundreds of billions from China, we could have at least fixed some of that “crumbling infrastructure” we’re always hearing about.
Obozo inherited a recovery, threw another $800 billion on top of it, and STILL failed.
A Realist
July 15th, 2012
1:22 pm
@retiredds
I’m with you! If this fails, the ones that will pay are those that would have gained the most.
I hope they enjoy the congestion and big tolls… not to mention significantly increased fares on GRTA (if it still exists after summer 2013).
I’ll continue to sit intown and breathe their congested exhaust…while the feds continue to cut highway funds due to pollution. But at least I can exist without a car!
A Realist
July 15th, 2012
1:43 pm
Kyle,
Sure, the is a Plan B … it is ‘Do Nothing and See What Happens.’
Sorry, rural politicians get elected by kicking Atlanta around, and there is no way they will come up with another option, not in any foreseeable time frame. History has proven that time and time again.
… and I’m seriously glad your career doesn’t depend upon thorough, unbiased financial analysis. But then Micky D might be hiring! (you have to start with the evidence and draw a conclusion, not draw the conclusion and hunt for corroborating evidence.)
Michael H. Smith
July 15th, 2012
1:47 pm
As for “dittos” we pontificating voters had plenty of nay to say to you democrats. In fact you commi-jerks have become politically irrelevant in this state and a pathetic joke on this blog.
Michael H. Smith
July 15th, 2012
1:59 pm
Bring on the toll roads big Gub’ment talkers this ain’t your daddy’s democrat state anymore or did you forget not one statewide office is held by a democrat?
Then again, when there are people who refuse to get the message sent to them repeatedly on MARTA after forty years of rejection, comprehension isn’t exactly their strong suit now is it?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 15th, 2012
2:02 pm
“As the failures of his presidency become more evident, Barack Obama has resorted to the tactics of a typical politician: dishonest and totally unsubstantiated attacks meant to distract from his own record by sm-ear-ing the rep-uta-tion of his opponent,” said Amanda Hennenberg, a Romney campaign spokeswoman.
Well, what else could obozo talk about, the Stimulus?
hahahahahahahaaahaha
Michael H. Smith
July 15th, 2012
2:06 pm
I guess obumer could have talked about MARTA need 52% of a T-SPLOST and threaten us all with toll roads if we don’t allow them an eternal gas tax increase.
I mean he has gotten any political traction from anything else he’s tried to use against Romney.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 15th, 2012
2:16 pm
A bomb!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
July 15th, 2012
2:19 pm
Obozo, on the latest stop of his “Kill Capitalism” tour: “If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.”
————————-
You’ve got to be an America-hating economic retard to even think about supporting that orifice. How dare you even pretend to be an American. You, like Obozo, may be a citizen, but you’re not an American.
Michael H. Smith
July 15th, 2012
2:20 pm
I’ll keep you in my prayers Brain T-SPLOST Kemp but I’ll not be praying for rain young man.
@@
July 15th, 2012
2:35 pm
Question!
Did Monica Pearson marry a younger man?
I just found out she built a house (MANSION) at Spivey. Tore one down to build another one. She’s a liberal democrat, right?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 15th, 2012
3:57 pm
Who’s Monica Pearson?
Mark in mid-town
July 15th, 2012
4:16 pm
Kyle Wingfield wrote: “But taking money out of one part of the economy and putting it in another is an awfully inefficient path to economic growth — at best. And make no mistake: Money that goes to the T-SPLOST is money that won’t go to local businesses.”
—————————————————————————————————————–
A few years back, a 22 year old relative of mine moved to the Washington DC area due to the weak Atlanta job market. She didn’t want to go at the time, but did so because it’s where there was a job waiting. Now she can get a professional job back in the Atlanta area, but has do desire to do so because she greatly appreciates being able to get around the DC area using their transit system. Over the next few decades, that’s probably a couple of million dollars that won’t get spent in the Atlanta area.
Young people are the future and young people today are attracted to cities that invest in inner-city infrastructure and transportation. And it’s not just that Atlanta will lose out on the couple of million dollars this person would have spent in the area over the next couple of decades. Her parents are now investigating moving out of the Atlanta area as well up to the DC area to be near their kid. I’d estimate the annual income of the parents to be in the $200,000 range. Multiply the dollar loss to the Atlanta area over the next couple of decades if they succeed in being able to move to DC area as well.
So the money spent on T-SPLOST is not really money that would have gone to other Atlanta area businesses. It’s money that will largely go to other parts of the country if the citizens of the Atlanta area foolishly vote this down. As the net multiplier effect of that cascades down through the years, it will mean fewer young professionals choosing to move to or stay in Atlanta. It will mean fewer of the ofter affluent parents of such young people choosing to move to or remain in the Atlanta area. And that will mean fewer businesses being able to stay in business or relocating to the Atlanta area due to the systematic loss of future consumer and investment spending in the Atlanta area.
T-SPLOST is far from perfect. But there is no viable alternative and as such, it would be incredibly foolish to vote this down as it will be some of those who vote against it who later find themselves being forced to move away from Atlanta so as to be able to stay employed or to be able to be near their kid(s) who have moved out of the region due to a job that never got created in the area because a company located elsewhere.
Bruno
July 15th, 2012
4:45 pm
Her parents are now investigating moving out of the Atlanta area as well up to the DC area to be near their kid. I’d estimate the annual income of the parents to be in the $200,000 range. Multiply the dollar loss to the Atlanta area over the next couple of decades if they succeed in being able to move to DC area as well.
In case you were unaware, Mark, housing costs in the DC area are double or triple those in metro Atlanta. Public transportation is only one factor. Don’t have any figures handy, but I would have to guess that the taxes and general cost of living are higher in DC as well. Looking at the big picture, I’d take Atlanta over DC any day. Just a hunch, as well, but I’m sure there will be plenty of job seekers to take over those 2 $100,000 jobs as well.
The Thin Guy
July 15th, 2012
4:52 pm
The local TV airwaves are being saturated with ads for T whatever. Who’s paying for them? What do they expect in return? When Sonny Perdue ran for governor the first time he said that one of the first things that he would do when elected is synchronize all the red lights in Atlanta. How did that turn out? What happened to the Sonny Do List?
Bruno
July 15th, 2012
5:25 pm
What happened to the Sonny Do List?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_XXkI-8e5M
Dusty
July 15th, 2012
5:25 pm
I believe that happiness in where you live depends on the happiness you have within. Unless there are dire circumstances, one adjusts to their surroundings.
Some people are happy living in the middle of down town Atlanta. Right in the middle of “things” and no hitting the ‘pressways to get to wrork. Some ;people are happy in the suburbs and love the trees, the neighbors, the yards and pools, better schools usually, and think a drive to town isn’t the worst thing that could happen.
Big businesses may consider living conditions but I believe their access to shipping, manufacturing and employees is more important than who might live where. Supporters of T-SPLOST are acting like the life of the city will be endangered without it. They forget that only a miniscule of people want their taxes raised for anything. But Atlanta will keep right on growing inside and outside, with or without T-SPLOST. We don’t want our taxes growing with it.
Dusty
July 15th, 2012
5:29 pm
“What happened to the Sonny Do List?”
To be a bit repetitious here: What happened to Hope & Change?
Bruno
July 15th, 2012
5:41 pm
What happened to Hope & Change?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQNvuFJgIIM&feature=relmfu
Evelyn Levine
July 15th, 2012
5:42 pm
What about senior citizens who have gotten a break on their county taxes and a good break. Now we want to add another one when we are already struggling and having to pay for the issues out of Obamacare and we don’t have the money. What are we to do? It is time to stop adding to and giving this economy a president (Romney) who can begin the relief of debt and taxation and hopefully we will be better in time for highway work. Right now it doesn’t rank very high on my list.
Dusty
July 15th, 2012
5:58 pm
Bruno, sooo (what happened to Hope & change?)
“Let me do it to you!!”..Lovely tune! Ah yes…
But, honey chile, we have been dun in already. The “stimulus” jolted us and ObamaCare finished us off. .Now it is all BAIN glory while the Oval Office sits empty. What an enchilada!
Dusty
July 15th, 2012
6:06 pm
Evelyn Levine, 5:42
You got that right! Good vision!
Dusty
July 15th, 2012
6:10 pm
Just a few words before moderation sets in.
THE BRAVES WON AGAIN TODAY. What a team! Go Braves…
Hillbilly D
July 15th, 2012
6:14 pm
RW (if you happen by)
I happened to see your comment and turned the AdBlock off on that site. That got it to work. You know a whole more about computers than I do but I’ve had AdBlock running for quite a while now, so why did I just start to have problems with Gameday 2-3 days ago? Was there some change on Gameday’s end, possibly?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 15th, 2012
6:51 pm
US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was taunted by chants of “Monica, Monica” by tomato-throwing demonstrators as she visited the Egyptian port city of Alexandria on Sunday.
Aahhh, yes.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 15th, 2012
7:11 pm
It gets better-
Cairo (CNN) — Egyptian protesters threw tomatoes and shoes at U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s motorcade Sunday and shouted, “Monica, Monica, Monica” as she left the newly reopened U.S. Consulate in Alexandria.
Shoes. Remember that one, Bush Derangement Syndromers?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
July 15th, 2012
7:16 pm
Yes, I do recall that the America-hating left and the media (pardon the triple redundancy) saw great meaning in the throwing of shoes at Our President Bush. My guess is that today’s incident gets scant attention.
Reality Dawg
July 15th, 2012
7:21 pm
Problem 1: TSPLOST is a politically charged compromise. As a resident of Gwinnett (not Lawrenceville), I do not see any benefit for my area except the widening of Highway 141/Peachtree Parkway (which should have been completed years ago).
Problem 2: Too much potential waste. WAY TOO MUCH mass transit funding that does noting but service downtown areas.
Problem 3: Too much potential corruption in the awarding of TSPLOST money. We saw this disaster once when Roy Barnes’ friends were lined up to acquire and “resell” the land for the Northern ARC (great idea that would have solved a lot of problems, but got ruined by corruption).
Problem 4: Raising taxes (any taxes) is the worst recession since The Great Depression. Most Democrat voters want the taxes to come from the “rich” (otherwise known as the Middle Class since the “rich” are usually untouchable through the many tax loopholes created by their friends in the legislature, both State and Federal).
This dog won’t hunt. Get ready for the creation of Plan B.