Taking a look at some T-SPLOST claims
The closer we get to the July 31 T-SPLOST referendum, it seems, the more claims we hear from the pro-tax campaign about its supposed benefits. Here’s the low-down on four common claims made about the $7.2 billion tax and the 157 projects it would fund.
1. Metro Atlanta commuters already pay a “congestion tax” of $924 a year.
This figure, taken from a study by the Texas Transportation Institute, accounts for the cost of wasting fuel and time in traffic. T-SPLOST supporters argue this is an indirect “tax” on commuters, and that the 1 percent sales tax will mitigate it.
Perhaps. But they don’t acknowledge the average household stands to pay more if the T-SPLOST passes.
Commuters aren’t the only people who would pay the sales tax, so let’s look at households. Based on Census data about commuters (see page 29) and household size in the 10-county region, the household “congestion tax” would be $986 a year. A study by the Atlanta Regional Commission found the projects funded by the tax would cut congestion by 24 percent at most. So, we can expect the household “congestion tax” to fall by no more than 24 percent, or $237.
Given state revenue estimates (see second table), each household’s share of the tax would start at $447.
Of course, visitors would pay some of the $447. But if residents foot even half the bill, the savings from the “congestion tax” is just a wash. If residents bear a larger share of the burden, the T-SPLOST plus the remaining “congestion tax” will cost more than what tax supporters say we pay now.
2. The T-SPLOST will get you home faster.
The very same data used for the “congestion tax” show congestion adds relatively little to the average commute: up to 10 minutes of the hour a typical commuter spends in the car every day. Sheer distance between home and work accounts for the rest of the time.
If congestion were to fall by 24 percent, then, the average commute would shrink by less than 2.5 minutes a day — only about a minute each way.
3. The T-SPLOST will be an economic boost.
You can’t spend $7.2 billion without improving the economy, right? It’s the same theory, writ small, President Barack Obama used to justify his 2009 “stimulus” package.
But taking money out of one part of the economy and putting it in another is an awfully inefficient path to economic growth — at best. And make no mistake: Money that goes to the T-SPLOST is money that won’t go to local businesses.
Worse, it doesn’t even fit the (questionable) idea of stimulating the economy by moving future consumption into the present. Projected timelines for the projects indicate that, in the first three years, the tax will collect $1.72 billion for regional projects — but spend just $812 million. The other half of the money will be pushed into the future. It’s unlikely the spending would catch up with the tax collections until 2018.
That might be a prudent way to plan infrastructure spending, but it looks like a half-decade drag on the economy.
4. There’s no “Plan B.”
As I’ve argued before, this claim ignores the possibility of voting again on a better project list in two years. In fact, the only thing that truly precludes another option is the T-SPLOST.
That’s because we will have used the biggest available revenue-raising tool. Even if the projects prove ineffective, our only option will be to renew the tax — or find another way to pay the tens of millions of dollars a year in operating costs for the transit projects this tax will create. If we OK this tax, we likely will be stuck with it, and without other options, for decades.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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368 comments Add your comment
Bruno
July 14th, 2012
6:32 pm
First, corporations are not people and comparing the income of corporations with the income of households is comparing apples and oranges.
IO–All you seem to be doing is repeating the same old tired liberal talking points with no analysis at all. Every single corporation in the world is comprised of people. As such, any corporate taxes paid result in less money available to the owners and investors in those corporations.
If you want me to accept the “corporations aren’t people” meme, then you’ll have to demonstrate to me functions carried out within the corporate structure which aren’t originated by a person. You can’t do it, so you have no point.
Bruno
July 14th, 2012
6:33 pm
Back later with some tunes……
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 14th, 2012
6:54 pm
Hey, they found Saddam’s WMD again-
Syria has begun moving its chemical weapons stockpile out of storage, U.S. warns
Hillbilly D
July 14th, 2012
6:58 pm
Corporations will be people, when Texas executes one.
Seriously, if corporations are to be treated as people, why don’t they have the same liabilites as an individual or a sole proprietorship? They can’t really have it both ways. Most everybody I’ve ever known personally, who formed a corporation, did it to decrease their personal liability.
Bruno
July 14th, 2012
6:58 pm
Here’s how I feel lately:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBcnjx05a1s
Holy Mother of God
You’ve got to go faster than that to get to the top
Dirty old mountain
All covered in smoke, she can turn you to stone
So you better start doing it right
better start doing it right
You’re halfway up and you’re halfway down
And the pack on your back is turning you around
Throw it away, you won’t need it up there, and remember
You don’t look back whatever you do
Better start doing it right
G Mare
July 14th, 2012
6:59 pm
Kyle, do you have a criminal record? When I googled you, a strange web site came up. I didn’t go there ‘cuz I figured it was bogus & might steal my password. Just sayin’ you might want to check it out.
Bruno
July 14th, 2012
7:02 pm
Most everybody I’ve ever known personally, who formed a corporation, did it to decrease their personal liability.
Incorporation laws have been changed to close a lot of those loopholes, HD. And though the liability protection has been abused by many in the past, it’s a necessary function, or else no one could safely invest in a corporation without risking their entire life savings in case something went wrong.
Bruno
July 14th, 2012
7:04 pm
Another Genesis classic from “And Then There Were Three”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWZzXg_plrk&feature=relmfu
You’re old and disillusioned now as you realise at last,
That all all you have accomplished here will have soon all turned to
dust.
You dream of a future after life, well that’s as maybe, I don’t know.
But you can’t take what you left behind, you’re all alone.
So keep in mind
Don’t live today for tomorrow like you were immortal.
The only survivors on this world of ours are
The warming sun, the cooling rain,
The snowflake drifting on the breath of the breeze,
The lightning bolt that frees the sky for you
Yet only eagles seem to pass on through.
The words of love, the cries of hate,
And the man in the moon…
Bruno
July 14th, 2012
7:07 pm
G Mare–I just googled your name and came up with 144,000 hits.
You sure are famous……
Bruno
July 14th, 2012
7:11 pm
For every guy who has ever had his heart broken:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUEAx1ngnf0
For every girl, too ^^^^^^^
Ray
July 14th, 2012
7:28 pm
Interested Observer @ 6:28 PM
The chart also compares “pre-tax income” (after deductions, expenses, losses,… etc.). The top 1% generally pays taxes on a much smaller percent of their total net income, than the middle class, hence you will find multi-millionaries regularly paying a low effective tax rate (like Romney’s 14%). Our United States Appeal courts are busy handing down rulings, confirming the disallowance of tax shelters, found to lack enough economic substance to warrant tax losses. They are constantly “popping up”, because just like protecting our borders, there will always be people willing to take their chances crossing the line, hoping their don’t get caught, counting on poor enforcement of the laws to better their chances.
Bruno
July 14th, 2012
7:30 pm
One of the most bittersweet songs of all time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5XJDxe7TVY&feature=related
Bruno
July 14th, 2012
7:36 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37dw2r45Xzg&feature=related
I love you in a place
Where there’s no space or time
I love you for in my life
You are a friend of mine
And when my life is over
Remember when we were together
We were alone and
I was singing this song for you
Bruno
July 14th, 2012
7:40 pm
For HD–The original version of “Call Me The Breeze” by J J Cale:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7GV2yUaXw4
Bruno
July 14th, 2012
7:45 pm
For PB:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcpgIaRWrr4&feature=relmfu
Bruno
July 14th, 2012
7:49 pm
One more from J J Cale, then have to head out. The man never got his due……
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IZ9feKpJkk&feature=related
Michael H. Smith
July 14th, 2012
7:58 pm
Seriously, if corporations are to be treated as people, why don’t they have the same liabilites as an individual or a sole proprietorship?
That’s why most individuals incorporate their sole proprietorship businesses as quickly as possible to protect their personal assets. So a good number of so-called corporations may in true fact be just an individual who added a couple of names on paper that retains the real sole authority over the business.
Old Timer
July 14th, 2012
8:04 pm
They need to go bck to the drawing board on the TSPLOST. I live out of the metro area, so we have a ten countiy TSLOST because they have designed this to include everyone, Not Just Atlanta. It’s overall push is political and will have disparities in the surrounding area. This was an Atlanta thing although it is being packaged as a state thing. the Georgia Department of Transportation is the biggest boon doggle in the state. They have alot of shovel ready projects already–most of the help are leaning on the shovels.
Hillbilly D
July 14th, 2012
8:08 pm
Michael H Smith
Exactly.
I had a co-worker a few years back who was one of those “names on the paper”. They held their yearly “corporate” meeting in Jamaica every year. A way to make their annual vacation, a write off.
Michael H. Smith
July 14th, 2012
8:12 pm
Ray
July 14th, 2012
7:28 pm
Like I said get rid of all the deductions, subsidies, write-offs and shelters, until then this clamor about tax rates is meaningless, as 14% is a far cry from 35%. There are enough legal means to lower the rate of taxation for the rich to avoid paying the top rate without having to break or risk breaking the law. Like those two pretend farmer Rock Stars who shelter some of their millions with legal farm subsidies.
ALL BORN IN THE USA!
md
July 14th, 2012
8:40 pm
“People like Romney, the Koch Brothers, and others who received most of their money first by inheriting it”
The only money Romney inherited from his Dad was given in it’s entirety to BYU……….
md
July 14th, 2012
8:46 pm
“I had a co-worker a few years back who was one of those “names on the paper”. They held their yearly “corporate” meeting in Jamaica every year. A way to make their annual vacation, a write off.”
Them’s the rules…..and one would be doing themselves a disservice if they don’t do as that guy is as every larger corp spends millions wining and dining………
The way I see it, if one doesn’t like it, one is free to not participate in those capital endeavors……everybody complains about the high prices of sporting events and concerts, but folks always seem to come up with the money to go…….
Hillbilly D
July 14th, 2012
8:51 pm
md
Everybody else does it, is a poor justification, in my opinion. Legal and right are two different things. This same person who wrote off their vacation every year, would foam at the mouth at the thought of somebody getting government assistance, or a handout. They couldn’t see their own hypocrisy or more than likely, just didn’t care.
md
July 14th, 2012
8:59 pm
“Legal and right are two different things.”
And I could agree on that one…….there are a lot of loopholes that need to be cleaned up.
But asking folks to police themselves while others are not is asking a bit much.
Hillbilly D
July 14th, 2012
9:03 pm
md
And that’s why the law should be changed but it won’t be because those who make the laws benefit from these kind of things. It’s why people like me have little respect for politicians or the law.
RW-(the original)
July 14th, 2012
9:11 pm
Hillbilly D,
Apologies for interrupting the current discussion, but do you view the Gameday feature at mlb.com? For the last two days I can’t get it to load and I can’t figure out what’s blocking it.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
July 14th, 2012
9:12 pm
IO seems intent on remaining ignorant, or she’s simply so committed to defending her Messiah’s talking point that she is impervious to facts.
The rich pay a higher percentage. They pay their fair share. They pay most of yours too.
Hillbilly D
July 14th, 2012
9:17 pm
RW
Yes, I do. It’s been screwed up the last couple of days. Nobody that I talk to on the baseball blogs has been able to see it. They usually get it fixed within a couple of days but their software is about on a par with AJC software, I think.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 14th, 2012
9:21 pm
White Sox- KC loaded right up.
You trying to watch some silly teams?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 14th, 2012
9:24 pm
Well, I guess it is pretty silly to be in a 3 to 3 death struggle with the Royals.
geez
Hillbilly D
July 14th, 2012
9:26 pm
Looks like Adam Dunn’s record of having more strike outs than hits for every year of his career is safe for another year.
RW-(the original)
July 14th, 2012
9:27 pm
Thanks, HD. I thought I might have gotten overzealous in some blocking scripts.
I Report, You and Obama still on the same team? He’s a lifelong fan dontchaknow…
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 14th, 2012
9:30 pm
HD- As long as he keeps the A-bombs coming.
RW- Yeah, he’s watching the game tonight from Comunisky Park.
Freaking 4-3 Royals, do they save their energy for when we show up or what?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 14th, 2012
9:40 pm
Cool, Robin’s thinking the same way I am, sit the Tyler Flower Experience down on the bench and bring the Pierzynski.
Hillbilly D
July 14th, 2012
9:58 pm
RW
If you’re still around, the Minor League side of Gameday seems to be having problems, too. At least, on my puter.
RW-(the original)
July 14th, 2012
10:06 pm
Hillbilly D,
Since gameday has forced me to look for an alternative, SeeBS isn’t bad but I don’t know that they cover the minors very well.
Michael H. Smith
July 14th, 2012
10:16 pm
“Legal and right are two different things.”
In the spirit and letter of the law they really aren’t two different things. It only becomes different when it is wrong for others but not for you. If you are looking for some sense of fairness which is about all we’ll ever get in this thing, then a two tier flat tax with all deductions eliminated is about as good as it can get.
Government assistance when truly needed, rather than when abuse simply because someone doesn’t want to do what it takes to have a better life than to live lazily off the labor of others, was meant to buffer the harsh realities of Capitalism. Which not only is the most rewarding economic system of all others but it can be the most brutally punishing economic system of them all. The legitimate fomenters against abuse are aiming at the government assistance abusers and the abusive government that enables failure and life-long sorriness.
Hillbilly D
July 14th, 2012
10:18 pm
The legitimate fomenters against abuse are aiming at the government assistance abusers and the abusive government that enables failure and life-long sorriness.
There’s abuse at the top, as well as the bottom. The “entitlement mentality” belongs to more than just one group.
Michael H. Smith
July 14th, 2012
10:35 pm
There’s abuse at the top, as well as the bottom. The “entitlement mentality” belongs to more than just one group.
Yeah but that group at the top get subsidies, deductions, write-offs and shelters which they figure they’ve earned through hard work – and a lot of lobbying for tax breaks – so its really not like government assistance.
See what I meant by… “It only becomes different when it is wrong for others but not for you”
Once again if you are looking for some sense of fairness which is about all we’ll ever get in this thing, then a two tier flat tax with all deductions eliminated is about as good as it can get. But don’t expect sympathy for the slothful because the diligent got a few breaks you don’t feel they deserved when at least they did put forth some genuine work effort and paid for some of that government assistance the others receive, even for the abusers who really shouldn’t be getting jack diddly squat.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward - Again)
July 15th, 2012
6:01 am
I’d like to know where all these mythical subsidies, deductions, and write-offs are to be found. When I do my taxes every year, I see lots of them in the tax code, and they all phase out at this or that income level.
Name one subsidy, deduction, or write-off that is available only to folks ABOVE a certain income level.
Michael H. Smith
July 15th, 2012
6:34 am
I’d like to know where all these mythical subsidies,deductions, and write-offs are to be found.
If you have to ask that question then you probably don’t make enough money to pay someone who can show where to find them or take advantage of them.
Michael H. Smith
July 15th, 2012
6:39 am
TV PROGRAM NOTE: John Stossel’s ‘Freeloaders’ Special Takes on Billionaires, Poor People, Indians, Everybody
For all of you who think FOX News Channel and FOX Business Channel are biased toward the rich and dismissive of the poor, check out John Stossel’s “Freeloaders” TV special on Fox News Channel, originally broadcast on Friday and Saturday and airing at 9 p.m. and midnight eastern time on Sunday, March 27. link:http://stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com/2011/03/26/i’m-a-freeloader-fox-news-special-re-airs-today-at-3pm-sunday-at-9pm-midnight-est .
I’m currently reading Ayn Rand’s 1957 novel “Atlas Shrugged” in preparation for my viewing the movie version that will be on the big screen in mid April. Ayn Rand would approve of Stossel’s take on freeloaders, especially the corporate ones he cites like General Electric. In case you haven’t heard, GE — the biggest industrial corporation in the world — not only didn’t pay any U.S. income taxes last year, the company got millions of dollars in refunds.
Farm subsidies go to millionaires like Bon Jovi, who pays property taxes of only $100 a year on his extensive real estate holdings in New Jersey — because he raises bees on the property. Fellow Jersey Guy Bruce Springsteen is in the same catbird seat, because he leases some of his real estate to an organic farmer.
http://www.huntingtonnews.net/2795
Is this good enough for you little blind man?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
July 15th, 2012
6:59 am
No, that is not good enough. I asked for examples that were ONLY available to people above a certain income level. Take your farm subsidy example. What is the minimum income level specified in the tax code to qualify for that?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
July 15th, 2012
7:04 am
Don’t get me wrong, MHS, I am not for farm subsidies or special treatment for politically favored companies such as GM, which got a sweetheart deal in its bankruptcy wherein it gets to carry forward its pre-bankruptcy losses for tax purposes, which is the opposite of how the bankruptcy law normally works.
@@
July 15th, 2012
7:34 am
I love Stossel’s exposes. Everyone gets their fair share of scrutiny.
Stossel was once a liberal who became painfully aware.
Kinda like me.
Do-gooders aren’t doing anyone any good.
Tired of BS
July 15th, 2012
8:46 am
If any state legislator votes “YES” they need to GO!
NoHomeForDrivers
July 15th, 2012
9:06 am
This isn’t merely an issue of people not wanting higher taxes – which they don’t. The two biggest problems (and the reason for voting NO) is simple: The plan is truly flawed. Different regions have different needs, and the DOT hasn’t really defined specific solutions. And Number two: Who trusts our state government or the GA DOT? I don’t. Look at the 400 toll, as an example. The few projects defined will take longer than 10 years, what happens if TSPLOST passes, the project is started, but takes 12-15 years to complete and the second vote fails. GA DOT needs to go back to work on this. Technically, they had solutions available to them back in the late ’70’s/early ’80’s, but refused to act on what was best for an exploding city.
TruthBe
July 15th, 2012
9:10 am
VOTE NO. This tax increase is a scam for more pet projects of local politicians and their special interest donors. When is enough taxes enough? People don’t be foo;ed again. Remember the lies about toll road GA-400.
Michael
July 15th, 2012
9:14 am
By all reasonable accounts, Georgia ranks 49th in transportation spending among U.S. states. All this persiflage about throwing money around to chase a few transportation problems is complete blarney. We need to spend much more money on transportation than we do, especially in the Atlanta region.
I’ve read the project list posted on the T-SPLOST information site and, while I would certainly wish there were more projects put forth to address mass transit needs, I am clear that T-SPLOST needs our support. Our roads and bridges are crumbling, and the dangers associated with that decay should be clear to anyone.
It doesn’t help the issue AT ALL that the people who support the project and who are in a position to communicate its benefits have acted like milquetoasts. Their underwhelming presence is a puzzlement, and fellow Atlanta lover Maria Saporta has, in my view, a pretty good take on the communication problem and what should be done about it: http://saportareport.com/blog/2012/05/transportation-sales-tax-campaign-needs-to-target-voters-likely-to-vote-yes/.
I’ll vote yes on T-SPLOST, because I love this region and don’t want to see it crumble. I’ll vote yes because I believe we have to pay to take care of important things like roads; I think it’s reasonable to believe that we have to pay for upkeep and improvement, and if we don’t make that investment, we’ll pay a greater cost. I’ll vote yes because I don’t want to end up in a car wreck on a crumbling bridge or road. I’ll vote yes in the hope that the Beltline can get a real start, because I think it has a great chance of improving the quality of life for the region–not just the city, but the whole region. I’ll vote yes because I think there’s a chance this set of projects might help all the warring fiefdoms of the region go a long way towards recognizing that we’re all in this together, and if we see Atlanta as a region and not as a series of city-states, we’ll find change for the better.
JamVet
July 15th, 2012
10:01 am
Remember the lies about toll road GA-400.
Good point. The “small government” (Huge LOL) Georgia Republicans sure got their guppies to swallow their fibs hook, line and sinker, huh?
Yet…
“If the referendum does not pass and there’s no alternative, reliance on toll roads is going to become more important,” said Mike Meyer, an Atlanta transportation expert and former head of the national Transportation Research Board.
“That is probably the only thing that is left out there” that can get funded, agreed Harold Linnenkohl, a former commissioner of the state Department of Transportation.
Get your quarters ready…