2012 Tuesday: Obama gives ‘tax the rich’ one more heave
We learned a few things yesterday with President Obama’s announcement that he wants to extend the current individual income tax rates for one more year, but only for those making less than $250,000 a year:
- The current rates — commonly described as the “Bush tax cuts” even though they have been in full force for nine years, two years of which required Obama’s signature — apply to more than just “the rich.” Otherwise, how could they be extended for everyone who isn’t rich?
- Even Obama understands that the economy is still too weak to withstand a major tax hike during the next presidential administration (his second, or Mitt Romney’s first). That is a pretty strong, if tacit, admission that his entire first term has failed to see a middle-class recovery of any consequence, just a stop to the bleeding — at most. Once upon a time, he theorized that such a result would lead to a “one-term proposition” for himself.
- This move has nothing to do with being serious about the deficit, because the vast majority of the budgetary effects relate to the rates for sub-$250,000 earners, and always have.
- If Obama were serious about the deficit, he would join other notable Democrats — and Republicans — in embracing the proposals of the Bowles-Simpson report he commissioned. Among other things, this would mean lowering rates across the board, while broadening the tax code to eliminate loopholes, carve-outs and subsidies/spending disguised as tax breaks.
- If it doesn’t have anything to do with the deficit, it’s plainly about politics. But it’s the same “eat the rich” politics that Obama and the Democrats tried in 2010 — and which cost them spectacularly in the midterm elections. Maybe he thinks it will play better this time because his opponent is (like him) a rich guy, but I suspect most Americans still care more about what each candidate’s policies mean for their own wallets than those of other people.
- Even other top Democrats think $250,000 is too low of a threshold: House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi and Sen. Chuck Schumer previously argued for keeping rates steady for anyone earning up to $1 million. Obama is out of step with his own party’s leadership and trying to lead Democrats even further to the left on this issue.
- This president still doesn’t have any new ideas. Tax the rich, borrow and spend more money, make government bigger with proposals that in some cases have been around for decades — these are the same things he’s been trotting out for four years, with the result of mediocre approval ratings and an electorate sour on the direction the nation is taking.
- There is an enormous opportunity for Romney to talk about the need to avoid the path on which Obama would take us — to explain the benefits of free enterprise and the fairness of rewarding people for the work they do and the risks they take. But he must make that case, and not count on a strategy of criticizing Obama’s class-warfare rhetoric.
The basic campaign messages of each side so far amount to:
Romney: Obama has failed!
Obama: Never mind that; Romney is an evil, rich capitalist!
Of the two, Romney’s message has the better chance of resonating with American voters. But he must pair it with a vision of what success would look like and how he would lead us there. Obama is giving him yet another opportunity to do that. He has to start acting on those opportunities.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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335 comments Add your comment
Gravy Train
July 10th, 2012
1:15 pm
Love me some Reagan: there is one key difference between the two: Obama’s supposed connection to Islam was never true and was meant to scare people away from him. Romney really is a Mormon and he’s taking in a lot of money from them. I am not trying to scare people away from Romney, nor condemn Mormons. This is America and they are free to believe and practice what they wish. I am simply suggesting that we examine Mitt’s connection to the organization and the motives of that organization. Where are his morals and ethics? What are they based on? It may be the only place that Willard stands firm on something. He sure doesn’t stand firm on anything else other than what will increase his profit margin.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
July 10th, 2012
1:16 pm
“now who is blocking the way again?”
What part of “Harry Reid’s Senate” do you NOT get, JDW?
Here’s a thought: Why doesn’t Obama (or ANY of the Democrat leaders in the House and Senate) put together a bill that contains things that BOTH parties would agree to, rather than just trying to cram things through they know will fail and are simply done for political talking points?
That is what LEADERS do, JDW, not politicians. Obama is SUPPOSED to be a leader. He needs to act like one.
Bruno
July 10th, 2012
1:16 pm
If it doesn’t have anything to do with the deficit, it’s plainly about politics. But it’s the same “eat the rich” politics that Obama and the Democrats tried in 2010 — and which cost them spectacularly in the midterm elections. Maybe he thinks it will play better this time because his opponent is (like him) a rich guy, but I suspect most Americans still care more about what each candidate’s policies mean for their own wallets than those of other people.
From my perspective, this election is one more referendum between those who want something for nothing and those who understand that it’s going to take a shared sacrifice to get out of this financial quagmire our government is stuck in. I’m voting for a shared sacrifice.
Love me some Reagan
July 10th, 2012
1:18 pm
Barry
Beside something about the weather like “man it is hot outside”, you are doing to produce a substantive fact one day.
Regardless of politics, we will all rejoice and have a party for you…….
Until that day, keep trying
md
July 10th, 2012
1:18 pm
The truly sad part of the equation is that he has already ended the tax cuts for the middle class, they just don’t know it…..yet. It will take awhile, but then they will notice the chnages to their hsa’s, fsa’s, and premiums. Not to mention their trips to the cig store and the tanning salon……will the big gulp be taxed next? probably, along with various other items that are bad for us and are driving up the costs of healthcare……and since the benevolent uncle sugar is now in charge of maintaining those costs, it’s a matter of when, not if……..they’ve already set the precedent and the masses shrugged it off………………
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
July 10th, 2012
1:19 pm
Class warfare is all Obozo has. Meanwhile, the task of uniting the country and healing the damage done in the last four years falls to President Romney. Another Democrat mess to be cleaned up by a Republican.
Love me some Reagan
July 10th, 2012
1:20 pm
Gravy train
Do what you must. In the end no matter what spin you put on it, going after Romney for being a Mormon and his connection to the LDS church is the same the right did to Obama.
It is bs and we know how well it worked for the right
Bruno
July 10th, 2012
1:22 pm
To Kyle from the thread below: Sorry for any part I played in the recent shenanigans. I don’t plan on blogging a lot, but hope to add one more conservative voice here.
Two questions: (1) Do you have any objection to playing music from time to time, e.g. on Fridays??
(2) Will you mind if I keep my nickname for AmVet intact (JamVet) ??
Bruno
July 10th, 2012
1:23 pm
Quick shout out to md, Ti, @@, Dusty, td and Reporter.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
July 10th, 2012
1:24 pm
“I am not trying to scare people away from Romney, nor condemn Mormons.”
Yeah you are, or you wouldn’t keep bringing it up – or calling it a cult.
“Where are his morals and ethics? What are they based on? ”
Let’s see. He’s been married and faithful to the same woman for their entire adult life. He has a set of upstanding young sons who are successful in their own right and have the same qualities as their father. He contributed both time and money to his churches outreach programs as a youth, and does the money thing now. I suggest you read this link about what he did when one of his fellow executives daughters went missing:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/17/mitt-romney-melissa-gay_n_1355317.html
From the report: “Romney stepped in and committed Bain’s resources to help with the search.
“I said let’s close the firm, let’s close the company – we were in Boston – and let’s all of us fly down to New York and try to find her,” Romney recalled recently when ask about the incident at a rally in Ohio this month. “So we closed the business, we went home and packed our things.”
The search ultimately led to a home in New Jersey where Melissa was found safe. Soon she was back with her family.”
Now, Gravy Train, I suggest you move on to more substantive matters.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
July 10th, 2012
1:26 pm
Nancy Pelosi and Sen. Chuck Schumer previously argued for keeping rates steady for anyone earning up to $1 million.
That’s called “haggle room”.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
July 10th, 2012
1:27 pm
Hiya, Bruno!
md
July 10th, 2012
1:27 pm
“What does the Bible say in regards to taking care of those who have the least and how it reflects on Jesus himself?”
And I would hope that even Jesus would tell those that can take advantage of an opportunity given to them by the masses to do so…….wouldn’t he?
You think he would tell others to continue to care for those that choose not to participate in a program like education?? I don’t, I think he’d tell them to get their act together and take advantage of the opportunity vs snubbing their noses at those trying to provide it to them……….
1/3 currently drop out of school……..costing society billions every year……..I doubt the big guy upstairs would condone that kind of selfishness…………..
JDW
July 10th, 2012
1:28 pm
@Tiberius…”What part of “Harry Reid’s Senate” do you NOT get, JDW?”
Why I think it’s the part where you assign the blame to “Harry Reid’s Senate” when the obstructionists are 96% Republican.
“Here’s a thought: Why doesn’t Obama (or ANY of the Democrat leaders in the House and Senate) put together a bill that contains things that BOTH parties would agree to, rather than just trying to cram things through they know will fail and are simply done for political talking points?”
What a GREAT idea. Let’s start with an Individual Mandate to buy health care. You know the one The Heritage Foundation created, Newt Gingrich supported and I believe there was even a Republican Governor of MA that implemented the idea. Lets use that as our test case for how well the Republicans can come to the table.
Steve
July 10th, 2012
1:29 pm
TIberius – cutting taxes and cutting safety nets programs IS what the GOP has been touting for years now (see Paul Ryan & Boehner)
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
July 10th, 2012
1:29 pm
There is an enormous opportunity for Romney to talk about….
Any plan, Mr Romney? With details? Didn’t think so.
Love me some Reagan
July 10th, 2012
1:30 pm
md
I know what he said about taking care of the least among us
Every single thing you posted will not because it can not be backed up with anything more than conjecture
Next
Steve
July 10th, 2012
1:30 pm
So folks, how DID Romney fare as a job creator in Massachusetts? I don’t think there was much of a stellar record there…
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
July 10th, 2012
1:31 pm
Kyle, if both sides agree that the tax cut for the under $250,000 should stay, why don’t we go ahead and get that taken care of and then we will have time to address the over $250,000 and tax reform in general down the road?
Of course you folks aren’t going to bite that one, are you?
Kyle Wingfield
July 10th, 2012
1:33 pm
Bruno @ 1:22: If AmVet doesn’t object, that’s fine.
As for music…we’ll have to see.
JMH
July 10th, 2012
1:34 pm
There maybe a reason alot of you whiny leftist libs aren’t among the 1% or whatever you consider rich and that’s because you are a bunch of idiots. Get a clue, read a book, do something other than whine about rich people. Stop being a loser and get a job…or two!
AmVet
July 10th, 2012
1:34 pm
Finn, Mitt’s record in Mass was very mixed.
But at least he wasn’t a caricature of himself like he is now.
People who worked with him back then, say that they cannot even recognize this guy!
A complete, utter sellout and severely conservative (LOL!) fraud.
AmVet
July 10th, 2012
1:36 pm
After consulting with my legal team, I can report that AmVet does not object…
Hi, B. Hope you had a great 4th. (Ya sorry rascal!)
Jefferson
July 10th, 2012
1:37 pm
Romney will be about the same as President Bush, maybe worse. Rich guys care little for workers, but they will say they do. Actions speak volumes when Bain killed jobs. The truth hurt Romney, kiss his butt and you become a butt kisser. I do enjoy watching the guilty squirm, meaning those insecure in their jobs due to getting them from butt kissing instead of results, and they know it.
AmVet
July 10th, 2012
1:38 pm
and get a job…or two!
Or three!
“Uniquely American. That is fantastic!”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIjo-dWE1Jg
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
July 10th, 2012
1:40 pm
“Let’s start with an Individual Mandate to buy health care. You know the one The Heritage Foundation created, Newt Gingrich supported and I believe there was even a Republican Governor of MA that implemented the idea.”
Both in correct, and a deflection, JDW.
Let’s try it in 2012 with a real bill.
Most of us would call that reality, rather than fantasy
Gravy Train
July 10th, 2012
1:41 pm
Tiberius- I am stating facts, it is not my fault if they sound scary. Mormonism is a cult. I’m sorry if you have trouble accepting that. How many other “wives” does “Mitt” have? Ask “Mitt” how to get to heaven. He’s working on pushing a camel through the eye of a needle. Two more facts: “Mitt” inherited his wealth and grew it by being a corporate raider. “Mitt” put his money in a “blind trust” to deflect questions about his immoral and unpatriotic financial practices. If you really think he has no idea where his money is then maybe you are blind.
md
July 10th, 2012
1:42 pm
“Every single thing you posted will not because it can not be backed up with anything more than conjecture”
Conjecture? Google is your friend…………..
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18563_162-6528227.html
And I’m pretty sure “the least among us” probably refers to those that “can’t” help themselves…….I highly doubt it means those that “won’t” help themselves…….such as those that are given assistance in the form of education and choose to turn their back on it putting themselves on the hard road of life and becoming a burden to those very same people that offered them the opportunity………
And I’d bet my last dollar that those that “can’t” help themselves would give anything to swap places with those that “won’t”…….all day every day.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
July 10th, 2012
1:43 pm
“So folks, how DID Romney fare as a job creator in Massachusetts?”
Well, let’s see. . . despite reports from the Obama campaign to the contrary, Massachusetts was in the upper third in job creation during Mitt’s term of office, and unemployment rates went from over 6% to just over 4%, which most economists consider full employment.
Anything else, Steve?
Love me some Reagan
July 10th, 2012
1:43 pm
md
I was talking about the Bible and what Jesus said
All that bs and conjecture you brought to the table and that website is some form of what?
next
JMH
July 10th, 2012
1:43 pm
AmVet…I know the idea of a job or hard work is a foreign concept to most of these lazy government leeches but if we would practice a little “tough love” and get some of these people off theire lazy butts i guarantee you within 5-10 years this country would be back where it needs to be and people would realize that although they have a safety net they don’t have a cradle to grave entitlement to mooch off the other hard working prople in this country for their entire lives.
How Inciteful Is That!
July 10th, 2012
1:44 pm
In 2009, there were 3,924,489 out of 137,982,204 (or 2.8%) returns filed with AGI’s of $200,000 or more. Collectively, their AGI’s accounted for 25% of the total reported AGI’s of all returns. That group paid almost 50% of the federal income taxes as well.
Republican like to highlight the fact that an analysis of 2009 tax units showed that nearly 50% of tax units paid no federal income tax with the implication clearly being that our country is inundated with millions of moochers leeching off the wealthiest few who are forced to carry the weight of the tax burden on their little shoulders. Nothing could be farther from reality but it makes a good sob story to tell around campfires on those hot summer nights in the Hamptons.
In reality, individual income taxes accounted for 898.5 billion of the federal revenues collected in 2010 while payroll taxes accounted for 864.8 billion and corporate income taxes accounted for 191.4 billion.
But given that Republicans think the only hope we have is to cut incomes taxes on the wealthiest and on corporations, I suppose they will have no choice but to go after that 50% that pay no federal income taxes and squeeze something from them if they ever hope to be able to pay anything at all toward that national debt that they claim to be so concerned about. Perhaps an elimination of the personal exemption and standard deduction for that 50% will have the desired effect. That sure beats asking a hedge fund manager raking in one billion in one year, for example, to feel the pain of so much as a 17% tax rate.
Steve
July 10th, 2012
1:44 pm
Wow – we need to get jobs? I’m pretty darn liberal yet I make $113K plus a good bonus each spring. But I would like to pay my fair share of taxes as I can AFFORD TO.
JDW
July 10th, 2012
1:45 pm
@Tiberius…”Both in correct, and a deflection”
So what is incorrect…did the Heritage Foundation not propose the idea originally?
Did Newt not support the idea?
Did a Republican Governor not implement the idea?
Sorry I don’t see a false statement there…
I could have even noted that the idea was introduced as legislation cosponsored by 19 or more Republicans…
Love me some Reagan
July 10th, 2012
1:45 pm
Tiberius
During the bubble many states went to full employment or close. I’m not sure if I would credit or discredit the governor for being caught up in a bubble that a good portion of the country was also caught up in.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
July 10th, 2012
1:46 pm
One vote here against music, your music may be my noise pollution.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
July 10th, 2012
1:49 pm
Steve
But I would like to pay my fair share of taxes as I can AFFORD TO.
_____________________
Nothing stopping you, bud!
As for me, don’t think so, unless some of the ridiculously stupid spending, fraud, waste, and abuse is eliminated.
md
July 10th, 2012
1:50 pm
“Two more facts: “Mitt” inherited his wealth and grew it by being a corporate raider.”
Might want to think about getting a different fact book…..the one you have is obviously faulty:
“When Mitt Romney’s father passed away in 1995, he left an inheritance to Mitt totaling $1 million. Romney turned around and donated that inheritance money to Brigham Young University for the George W. Romney School of Public Management. This is an institute of public management that helps young people learn about government and about serving in public service.”
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
July 10th, 2012
1:52 pm
As some one smarter than me once said, if you want less of something, just tax it. So, why do we tax prosperity? Maybe we should tax poverty. That might change some attitudes.
md
July 10th, 2012
1:53 pm
“All that bs and conjecture you brought to the table and that website is some form of what?”
Many call it the real world……….unless you have evidence it doesn’t really exist…..maybe that those folks don’t really choose to drop out of assistance program number 1……..
Steve
July 10th, 2012
1:54 pm
Rafe – well heck, I had no say in the three TRILLION dollars the recent wars cost, or corporate welfare and tax loopholes that I’m subsidizing, but I don’t mind paying for infrastructure, clean air/water, safe flying, safe foods, Medicare/Medicaid, and social security.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
July 10th, 2012
1:55 pm
“I am stating facts, it is not my fault if they sound scary.”
“How many other “wives” does “Mitt” have?”
Facts, Gravy Train? And you ask THAT question?
“Ask “Mitt” how to get to heaven.”
Why do you care? If an Agnostic or an Atheist ran for office, would you ask the same question?
““Mitt” inherited his wealth and grew it by being a corporate raider.”
Actually, factually incorrect. Mitt was wealthy and successful all on his own, long before his father passed away. He even gave away the $1 million in inheritance he received from his father:
http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com/2012/03/02/mitt-romney-donates-entire-inheritance-to-byu-college-scholarship-funds/
And during his tenure at Bain Capital created or saved jobs in over 70% of the businesses they invested in..
““Mitt” put his money in a “blind trust” to deflect questions about his immoral and unpatriotic financial practices.”
Incorrect again. Elected officials typically put their money in blind trusts when serving in office to remove any chance of being accused of steering legislation that might further enrich them. It is a common practice, especially for those whose wealth is divested in many directions. A blind trust is just that – blind. The candidate (or official) only gets to see the bottom-line, NOT the details.
Gravy Train
July 10th, 2012
1:57 pm
md- yes, that was a touching gesture. Too bad that $1 million was a drop in the bucket compared to what Daddy gave ole “Mitt” while he was still alive. Mitt was already worth more than that in 1995. “Mitt” is just like W Bush, he’d be nowhere without Daddy’s money and Daddy’s connections.
AmVet
July 10th, 2012
1:57 pm
JHM, that looks good on a REALLY big bumper sticker, but that is all.
Take a good hard look around.
Where are the decent jobs?
Inform yourself, the number of applicants per job now are the highest in history.
For example, Apple employs 43,000 people in this country. 30,000 of whom make $12 per hour or $25k per year. $1 above the poverty line.
While nine of their executives make an average of $441 million per year.
The minimum wage is worth less now than it was in 1968!! For almost 75% of Americans they make less in adjusted inflation dollars than they did in 1973!! Though their productivity has doubled!
And who do you shuck and jive for? The super-wealthy!
80% of the wealth in this country resides in 20% of the hands. I have NO doubts that before long it will be 90% in 10% of the hands.
Welcome to the plutocracy.
And you wonder why the economy is in the tank?
Tens of millions of once solidly middle class Americans are scrambling desperately to just get by. TONS of them are your Republican neighbors. Countless numbers of whom live in constant fear that they are one catastrophic medical problem away from bankruptcy and homelessness.
They cannot afford what companies are selling, so the companies don’t hire them.
A vicious trickle down cycle of middle class destruction. And growing despair that has been forty years in the making.
Fit that on one of your bumper stickers…
Love me some Reagan
July 10th, 2012
1:58 pm
md
You replied to one of my post that I referenced the Bible.
It came with a bunch of unfounded bs with you also referencing Jesus and/or the Bible
Like I said you couldn’t, and you didn’t back it up so you diverted from the Bible to something else. That is fine but I’m not going down your rabbit hole.
But nice try
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
July 10th, 2012
2:01 pm
“During the bubble many states went to full employment or close. I’m not sure if I would credit or discredit the governor for being caught up in a bubble that a good portion of the country was also caught up in.”
So governors don’t have an effect on what happens in their states, Reagan?
At some point we have to start crediting what happens at the local level more than we do the Federal level, as they are more nimble and closer to the problems facing them. Which is probably why states that elected Republican governors in 2010 are faring much better than those who didn’t in unemployment numbers and budget woes.
AmVet
July 10th, 2012
2:03 pm
Rafe, so just scrolling by is not an option for you?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
July 10th, 2012
2:06 pm
“And growing despair that has been forty years in the making.”
More like 80 years in the making.
“Fit that on one of your bumper stickers…”
It’s FDR’s fault!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
July 10th, 2012
2:06 pm
I see you guys are still confused about what qualifies as “wealthy”. Let me help clarify:
If you hire a lawn service to cut your lawn you might be well off or rich…but you are not wealthy. IF you employ a full-time gardener, you are probably “wealthy.”
If you cook your own meals or eat out every day, you probably aren’t wealthy, IF you employ a full-time chef, you are probably “wealthy.”
If you frequently hire a maid service you are not wealthy. If you employ a full-time “house staff”, you are probably wealthy.
If you drive your kids to sports practices you sure aren’t wealthy, IF you employ a full-time chauffeur, you probably are wealthy.
The delusion of the middle class is that if you work hard and play your cards right, you’ll be able to join this group some day
Mwuahahahahahahahaha
md
July 10th, 2012
2:06 pm
“md- yes, that was a touching gesture. Too bad that $1 million was a drop in the bucket compared to what Daddy gave ole “Mitt” while he was still alive.”
Have a link for us gravy? I’m more than willing to take a look at it. If not, I’ll chalk it up to your uninformed opinion and move on…….