Obamacare ruling offers good possibilities, but no substitute for a win
Generals are often accused of “fighting the last war.” After Thursday’s Supreme Court ruling upholding Obamacare, conservatives are asked to pin our hopes on the notion Chief Justice John Roberts was fighting the next war.
This is a tempting proposition. There is the fact Roberts, in the main opinion of the court, and the four dissenting justices endorsed a limit to the power Congress wields under the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution. As this was the key judicial theory advanced by the law’s opponents, one that sought to halt a decades-long expansion of the meaning of “regulating” interstate commerce, that is no minor feat. It could even provide the starting point one day for further rollbacks of bad Commerce Clause precedent, starting with the awful 1942 Wickard decision that found a farmer affected interstate commerce by growing his own wheat.
There is also the fact the court’s majority decided the “penalty” for non-compliance with Obamacare’s individual mandate to purchase health insurance is really a “tax.” While this contradicts Congress’ actions and the president’s words during the 2009-10 health-care debate, it has the benefit of making it easier to repeal the law. As a budgetary matter, this “tax” — and Obamacare’s other taxes and spending — should be subject to the Senate’s reconciliation process, to which the filibuster does not apply. So, there’s no requirement for 60 votes in the Senate to remove the heart and guts of the law, just a simple majority.
And there is the fact that Roberts’ surprising vote on Obamacare averted the torrent of purely partisan criticism Democrats and liberals were set to unleash had a majority of the court struck down the law, accusing Roberts and his colleagues of — wait for it — partisanship. His court’s integrity intact, perhaps Roberts will be freer in lower-profile future cases to strike blows for the causes of federalism and limited government.
All these thoughts are pleasing to the conservative mind.
But if Roberts’ ruling can cite Benjamin Franklin’s aphorism about the certainty of death and taxes, allow me to caution against too rosy a view of his ruling with another saying: A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Maybe the Roberts court will reinforce federalist principles in future cases. Then again, maybe the facts and circumstances of these future cases won’t cooperate. Or maybe the cases won’t emerge before the Commerce Clause-limiting wing of the court changes for the worse: Antonin Scalia is 76, Anthony Kennedy turns 76 this month, and there are at least even odds Barack Obama will be making court appointments past their 80th birthdays.
Speaking of elections: Maybe Mitt Romney will win and have at least 50 GOP senators (plus his vice president) to pass a budgetary bill by reconciliation. Maybe not. The presidential election and key Senate races look close, and four months is an eternity in politics.
And maybe, just maybe, the same Democrats and liberals who thought partisanship was the only reason the court could strike down Obamacare will look back, when a future case is decided in favor of federalism and limited government, and say, “This stinks, but hey — Roberts was with us on health care back in 2012. So it’s cool.” Or maybe their reactions will be just as vicious and plainly partisan as their blowback to an anti-Obamacare decision promised to be.
Possible future good is a consolation for Thursday’s loss, but it’s no substitute for a win.
(Note from Kyle: This is my column for the Sunday AJC. As anyone who read my posts Thursday can tell, I have been going back and forth about the impact of the Obamacare ruling. Consider this column a refinement of my opinion: There are some good things that could come out of the ruling, but they are by no means guaranteed.)
– By Kyle Wingfield
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677 comments Add your comment
Pizzaman
June 30th, 2012
7:59 am
Still waiting for the Teapublican “replacement” details. How ’bout it “TB…BFBFL”, what do your guys plan to do? Or is it as I suspect, all talk, no plan!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 30th, 2012
8:05 am
Most of what needs to be in the Republican plan is undoing the Democrat schemes that have so funked up our health care system for the last 50+ years. People need to be more responsible for their own health care–we need to get folks to stop thinking that their health care costs are supposed to be paid by someone else.
Long story short, lose the Democrat parasite mentality.
GT
June 30th, 2012
8:09 am
Win the election and the floor is tour’s. Maybe we will show the majority mandate a little more respect than you have shown us. Maybe we believe the vote not the fickle polls is the power of this nation. Our agenda is not above the will of the people. That is the reason we won’t lose in November.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 30th, 2012
8:15 am
carlos, your next “detailed study” would be your first “detailed study”.
You libs have no clue what the effect of this law will do to the budget and taxing increases coming up, because you don’t understand “cause and effect”.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 30th, 2012
8:16 am
“Still waiting for the Teapublican “replacement” details.”
Google and reading comprehension are your friends, Pizzaman.
Just because you have not taken advantage of either, doesn’t mean the specific plans are not out there.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 30th, 2012
8:19 am
“Maybe we believe the vote not the fickle polls is the power of this nation.”
You mean the “fickle” polls that haven’t changed since day one that a majority of people want this law repealed?
Those fickle polls, GT?
carlosgvv
June 30th, 2012
8:39 am
Tiberius – 8:15
So, all us “libs” are just dumb and, somehow, you are smarter than all of us? The scary thing is, you actually believe this.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 30th, 2012
8:56 am
“So, all us “libs” are just dumb and, somehow, you are smarter than all of us?”
No, carlos, just most of you.
You look at outcomes based on “want”. Intelligent people look at outcomes based on facts and the probabilities that result from them.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 30th, 2012
9:00 am
Maybe YOU can explain that whole “I have no idea why I post here, because I have nothing of substance to contribute” thingie, Kamchak.
Since contributing nothing of substance is your modus operandi.
Shorter Sunspot Dave: I know everything and SHUT UP!
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 30th, 2012
9:01 am
If it will make you stay away, Kamchak . . . .
Mr_B
June 30th, 2012
9:09 am
“You mean the “fickle” polls that haven’t changed since day one that a majority of people want this law repealed?”
Tiberius,why does it follow that a majority who don’t like ACA actually want it repealed. I don’t like it, but I want to see it improved, not ditched. I have a feeling that there are many others like me.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 30th, 2012
9:11 am
I wondered how long it would take for your hubris to get the better of you over here, Sunspot. Just remember, there are those of us who witnessed your epic melt-down and subsequent blog suicide next door and know that it was ultimately the unintended consequence of you outing your own self next door by exposing your real identity.
You yourself, through your own hubris, revealed enough information about yourself to getalife that ultimately resulted in your departure next door.
Remember these facts when you start popping off at the mouth about how much you understand unintended consequences.
JDW
June 30th, 2012
9:19 am
@Tiberius…”You mean the “fickle” polls that haven’t changed since day one that a majority of people want this law repealed?”
Yep those are the ones…about 50% oppose the law. Of the 50 25% do so because IT IS NOT LIBERAL ENOUGH. Do your math like a good boy and you can figure out that the hard core opposed equals around 34% of the electorate, just a bit more than there are Republicans.
So you can easily understand that all Republicans along with just a few others are opposed. I am
especially given that it was a Republican idea all along…
Conceived by the Heritage Foundation, supported by two of the last three Republican Candidates for President (before it was in a Democratic bill of course), signed into law by a Republican Governor who is now the Republican presumptive nominee and introduced as legislation by a Republicans into the Senate in 1993 by 19 Republican sponsors.
JDW
June 30th, 2012
9:21 am
@Tiberius…”You look at outcomes based on “want”. Intelligent people look at outcomes based on facts and the probabilities that result from them.”
Indeed, and when I told you the other day I thought the ruling on immigration signaled a move toward federal rights by Roberts you didn’t believe me.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 30th, 2012
9:25 am
“Tiberius,why does it follow that a majority who don’t like ACA actually want it repealed.”
Mr. B, those ARE the people who want it repealed. That’s what the poll question asked.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 30th, 2012
9:26 am
I thought you were taking your own suggestion, Upchuck . . . .
JDW
June 30th, 2012
9:27 am
@Tiberius…”Mr. B, those ARE the people who want it repealed. That’s what the poll question asked.”
And as my 9:19 notes and Mr. B tells you 25% of those want it repealed BECAUSE IT IS NOT LIBERAL ENOUGH.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 30th, 2012
9:28 am
“Indeed, and when I told you the other day I thought the ruling on immigration signaled a move toward federal rights by Roberts you didn’t believe me.”
And his ruling in favor of Congress’ role in taxation and NOT an expansion of the Commerce Clause is a move towards Federal rights – how – JDW?
Another epic fail on your part.
Gonna bail on that like you did the fire fighting questions last night?
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 30th, 2012
9:30 am
“And as my 9:19 notes and Mr. B tells you 25% of those want it repealed BECAUSE IT IS NOT LIBERAL ENOUGH.”
Thanks for admitting that my “majority of people want it repealed” comment was correct, JDW.
I won’t be waiting for an apology from you.
JDW
June 30th, 2012
9:32 am
@Tiberius…”Another epic fail on your part.”
I see, I was correct, but since you think it was a bad decision I was still wrong…do you ever listen to yourself? You wouldn’t know a fact if it bit you on the rear.
JDW
June 30th, 2012
9:34 am
@Tiberius…”Thanks for admitting that my “majority of people want it repealed” comment was correct, JDW.”
Never denied it…now tell me just what % of the 25% that think the bill was NOT LIBERAL ENOUGH are likely supporters of Romney….tick….tock
That would be ZERO leaving 66% of the electorate supporting the President on the issue.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 30th, 2012
9:36 am
“Conceived by the Heritage Foundation, supported by two of the last three Republican Candidates for President (before it was in a Democratic bill of course), signed into law by a Republican Governor who is now the Republican presumptive nominee and introduced as legislation by a Republicans into the Senate in 1993 by 19 Republican sponsors.”
Except, of course, that the Heritage Foundation is not an elected body nor associated with the Republican Party in any way, that it wasn’t supported by two of the last three Republican candidates for President, it wasn’t signed into law by a Republican Governor who is now the presumptive nominee, and the 18 co-sponsors of the bill had mixed feelings about the mandate in the overall health care reform bill that was submitted but were willing to see a measure start forward . . .
. . . you pretty much nailed it, JDW
But you’ve got your DNC talking points down pat this morning, and I sure you will repeat them ad nauseum throughout the rest of this campaign in a lame effort to describe fiction as fact.
Dusty
June 30th, 2012
9:37 am
Well, it looks like another bad offshoot of the current Obamacareless is the incoming surge of ill-mannered, chest beating. officious liberals from Bookman’s blog. Looks like they couldn’t stand each other over there and came to the GOOD place so they could ruin that.
If the best you can do is come here and call names and tell people to SHUT UP, better you go find another playground. This one is for adults with good sense.
In the meantime, I am preparing for a birthday party. Maybe you liberals could go and burn some flags and get ready for a party on the Fourth. LIberals could celebrate another day towards socialism. Free! Free! Everything free!! Golly Gee! Guv’mint healthcare FREE!!!
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 30th, 2012
9:40 am
“I see, I was correct”
Weak reading comprehension on your part this morning, JDW. As usual.
Your call on the vote was correct (again, based on hope, not facts or conclusions).
Your call as to the reasons behind the vote (the expansion of Federal power) was grossly off the mark, and you supported the Commerce Clause argument, and I (and Roberts) did not.
There was NO Federal expansion of powers in the ruling. In fact, it specifically LIMITED the role of government in using the Commerce Clause as a means to do anything Congress wished to do under the guise of commerce.
AmVet
June 30th, 2012
9:47 am
The rage here is absolutely palpable this morning. LOL. (Especially at Dave R.)
Twas indeed a bad week for the Dead Red, Lily White Party of Mooches.
And the kicker is that they got whacked by one of their own.
Deliciously ironic.
Just quit freeloading off of the rest of us and buy your own damn insurance. (If you can afford it. BWA!)
Dusty
June 30th, 2012
9:56 am
See what I mean! AMVET, the scourge of good manners, good policy and good sense, roaming the blogs so he can place insults somewhere besides Bookman’s.
Too bad he doesn’t get help. But….some people are impossible to help. He seems to be one of ‘em!
Michael H Smith's Laundry
June 30th, 2012
9:58 am
Your white sheets are ready. Please come get them.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 30th, 2012
9:58 am
Wow. AmVet complaining about others’ freeloading.
The irony is thick here this morning. Much like AmVet’s head.
JDW
June 30th, 2012
10:02 am
@Tiberius…”a lame effort to describe fiction as fact.”
Well lets talk fact and fiction…
“the Heritage Foundation is not an elected body nor associated with the Republican Party in any way”
From their website “…whose mission is to formulate and promote conservative public policies based on the principles of free enterprise, limited government, individual freedom, traditional American values, and a strong national defense.”
Why I believe they hit EVERY Republican theme…not associated with the Republican Party…just every member of the Heritage Foundations is also a member of the Republican Party…nope no link here.
JDW 1 Tiberius 0
“that it wasn’t supported by two of the last three Republican candidates for President”
Really….
Mitt Romeny 2006…”With regards to the mandate, the individual responsibility program which I proposed, I was very pleased to see that the compromise from the two houses includes the personal responsibility principle, that is essential for bringing health care costs down for everyone, and for getting everybody the health insurance they deserve and need. So I was very pleased with that development.”
That’s not only support that’s ownership
Newt Gingrich 2009…”We believe that there should be must-carry, that everybody should have health insurance, or if you’re an absolute libertarian, we would allow you to post a bond, but we would not allow people to be “free riders” failing to insure themselves and then showing up in the emergency room with no means of payment. If you have must carry, then the insurance companies have told us that we can have must-issue, and you will therefore have a system in which you don’t have to worry about cherry-picking and maneuvering.”
In direct response to a question on the Individual Mandate…
That’s two out of three…
JDW 2 Tiberius 0
Then you claim
“it wasn’t signed into law by a Republican Governor who is now the presumptive nominee”
Why lookie there that’s Mitt Romney’s signature on the MA bill with an Individual Mandate…yes the same Mitt Romney who is now the presumptive Republican nominee…
JDW 3 Tiberius 0
Then you try to slide this one in the corner pocket…
“the 18 co-sponsors of the bill had mixed feelings about the mandate in the overall health care reform bill that was submitted but were willing to see a measure start forward ”
First off, NO ONE, in Congress sponsors a bill with mixed feelings. They might support one with mixed feelings but not sponsor. Then from FactCheck.org…
“It would be accurate to say that a number of Republicans — including several high-profile senators — supported a bill or a subsequent proposal that included an individual mandate provision.”
Nope no mixed feelings there…
Final tally
JDW 4 Tiberius 0
Better polish your game…you have been skunked.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 30th, 2012
10:03 am
MHS Laundry, pleas repost anything of Michael H. Smith’s that makes you believe (based on the post) that his disagreements with this administration are because of race, rather than policy.
I will not be holding my breath waiting for your reply.
AmVet
June 30th, 2012
10:07 am
Dave R, you mooch and parasite.
You Republicants are some silly ass whiners and really, really, really poor losers.
Get used to it guppies. The forecast for the rest of the year is more ……………………………………. pain.
How many times last week did YOU stupidly gloat over your expected victory?
Rube.
And Dusty go stuff your face with a few Triple Whoppers and some Super-sized fries. And be sure to wash it down with a diet Coke! Hope you can afford your health insurance!
Huge LOL at you neocons…
MarkV
June 30th, 2012
10:11 am
Dusty @9:37 am
“LIberals could celebrate another day towards socialism. Free! Free! Everything free!! Golly Gee! Guv’mint healthcare FREE!!!”
True to the form, Dusty continues the disingenuous misinterpretation of the efforts to legislate universal health care insurance as giving healthcare FREE to some people. As matter of fact, just the opposite is true. In the absence of universal health care insurance, many people are getting health care FREE.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 30th, 2012
10:12 am
“Why I believe they hit EVERY Republican theme…not associated with the Republican Party”
Admitting my contention was correct. Tiberius 1, JDW, 0
Mitt Romney has NEVER supported an Federal individual mandate. Tiberius 2, JDW 0
“Why lookie there that’s Mitt Romney’s signature on the MA bill with an Individual Mandate”
Yes, on a STATE mandate, not a Federal one. Tiberius 3, JDW 0 (btw, Romney won’t be signing Federal legislation into effect until Feburary of 2013)
“First off, NO ONE, in Congress sponsors a bill with mixed feelings.”
Actually, many do in order to get the overall bill working, and then work to tweak the bill later in the committee process, but you wouldn’t know that having never worked in government or served in an elected capacity. Tiberius 4, JDW 0
“It would be accurate to say that a number of Republicans — including several high-profile senators — supported a bill or a subsequent proposal that included an individual mandate provision.”
FactCheck.org (the liberal-leaning site funded by Soros) isn’t exactly a great source of accurate information. In fact, what you copied from them is a desperate hope that supporting a bill means supporting EVERYTHING in the bill, including a specific proposal IN the bill, which of course, isn’t the case in real life.
Final tally: Tiberius 5, JDW 0.
AmVet
June 30th, 2012
10:14 am
Dave R is Kyle’s Charlie Sheen. LOOK AT ME! A WINNER!
Dave, hope you’re enjoying this globally cooled weekend.
Must be those sunspots you used to write about.
Stay thirsty, my non-friend…
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 30th, 2012
10:17 am
“you mooch and parasite.”
For free.
You may now go crying back to your Bookman womb.
AmVet
June 30th, 2012
10:17 am
I am ALMOST feel sorry for you Republisheep. Screwed by one of your own.
Don’t roget to thank Justice Roberts and NEVER, EVER forget Saint Ronnie’s 11th Commandment!
Still active at Bookman's because I am an adult and act like one
June 30th, 2012
10:18 am
“If the best you can do is come here and call names and tell people to SHUT UP, better you go find another playground. This one is for adults with good sense. ”
Tiberius, Lil Barry, Michael Smith are all name callers I missed where you called them out.
Don’t be the pot calling the kettle black
You must be eating selective condemnation for breakfast. Goes great on oatmeal
Still active at Bookman's because I am an adult and act like one
June 30th, 2012
10:19 am
Tiberius
Counting up what he calls “wins” as if his daddy Wingfield sends him little gold stars
Still active at Bookman's because I am an adult and act like one
June 30th, 2012
10:20 am
“You may now go crying back to your Bookman womb.”
Same one you thought you ruled until you were aborted
carlosgvv
June 30th, 2012
10:20 am
Tiberius
You are apparently unaware that Obamacare and RomneyCare are virtually identical.
I wonder why that is?
AmVet
June 30th, 2012
10:21 am
Dave, why do you hate the troops so much?
Are you a commie? Or just a terrorist coddling peacnik?
Instead of being a draft dodger like Dickie C and Saxby C, you could have served too.
You know, service before self, a code of honor and all that jazz.
Too bad, so sad. Must suck to be you this weekend!
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 30th, 2012
10:21 am
Let’s see. The girl who admits to taking their health care from the taxpayers for free, is calling someone who has never taken a dime of taxpayer money they didn’t earn in salary a “moocher and parasite”.
Oh, and who has never used a medical facility I didn’t pay for.
Got it, sweetie.
Is there any wonder why conservatives constantly question the intelligence level of liberals, and rightly so?
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 30th, 2012
10:22 am
“I missed where you called them out.”
Wow. You missing something.
Not surprised one bit.
Still active at Bookman's because I am an adult and act like one
June 30th, 2012
10:24 am
If the shoe fits Tib? wear it and wear it well.
You fit the same category that Dusty was crying about in that selective condemnation post
AmVet
June 30th, 2012
10:24 am
Conservative?
HUGE GUFFAW!!!
You wouldn’t know a conservative if one fell in your lap.
You are a Republican. A neocon. A Bushbot. A fraud.
To you conservative means nothing more than hating all non-Republicans and all foreigners.
It ain’t.
And you ain’t, globally cooled one…
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 30th, 2012
10:28 am
“Dave, why do you hate the troops so much?”
I don’t. Just those that have sold out their principles. Like you.
“Are you a commie?”
Nope. A Constitutionalist.
“Or just a terrorist coddling peacnik?”
I do have a military non-interference code of ethics; ethics being something you are unfamiliar with, AmWet. My code is that we don’t attack anyone until attacked, and wipe them out to the last combatant with unrestricted firepower if they choose to do so.
“Instead of being a draft dodger like Dickie C and Saxby C, you could have served too.”
Actually, I couldn’t. The draft had ended at the time of my 18th birthday, and I chose to serve VOLUNTARILY 3 years later. Got any other incorrect accusations to hurl this morning, sweetie?
Still active at Bookman's because I am an adult and act like one
June 30th, 2012
10:29 am
Have a great day Tiberius
Maybe you can come up with more spin and rhetoric on how Robert’s gave the Republicans / conservatives a victory with his vote on Obamacare.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 30th, 2012
10:31 am
“You are apparently unaware that Obamacare and RomneyCare are virtually identical.”
You are apparently unaware that Romneycare and Obamacare are miles apart in similarities, carlos.
I wonder, “Why is that?”
Remember, Bubba, I’m from Massachusetts. You have to work a LOT harder to debunk my knowledge of things that happened there.
JDW
June 30th, 2012
10:32 am
@carlosgvv…”I wonder why that is?”
Tiberius seems to have a real problem with facts and reality…I think he is delusional and could use some professional help. Of course the November results may just drive him right off the edge….
AmVet
June 30th, 2012
10:34 am
Dave, quit lying.
And learn to live with your many failures and your cowardice.
Your economic liberal, chickenhawks just got beeotch slapped for the ages and now have a legacy of losing on the biggest stage ever.
Again, quit sucking off of the rest of America and start paying your own way for once. And tell your lazy nephews and cousins and kids to get a freaking job.
Either that or just outsource yourselves to India or the Philippines or China or…
LOL.
Oh BTW, between killing OBL and watching you nuts go down the toilet last week, the president just phoned the Great Socialist Flip Flopping RINO and said, “Thanks for the second term”.