Obamacare upheld: What it means now and in the future
Challenging Obamacare on constitutional grounds was never what anyone on the right wanted to rely on as a Plan A. “Repeal and replace,” the mantra of conservatives since Congress approved the health-insurance overhaul in 2010, is a high bar requiring the election of a president and congressional majorities dedicated to taking Obamacare off the books and passing more sensible reforms in its place. But persuading the Supreme Court to void the law by declaring it beyond Congress’ power to regulate interstate commerce, while sincerely believed to be correct, was always a higher bar to clear.
The irony is that we cleared the higher bar, and have nothing to show for it.
Do not confuse this for spin: Barack Obama and the Democrats won a clear policy victory today in seeing the court uphold their health law. There’s no denying that. Any other outcome would have been a debacle for them. This is the opposite of a debacle. That would be a victory.
That said, five of the court’s nine justices just agreed that compelling individuals to enter the market for a private company’s product does not fall within Congress’ power to regulate interstate commerce. This is the very idea to which then-Speaker Nancy Pelosi responded, when asked about it by a reporter two years ago, “Are you serious? Are you serious?” So, this is a remarkable moment given the last 80 years of Supreme Court jurisprudence and an important limit on federal power. In those terms, it looks like a legal win going forward for conservatives.
Unfortunately, Chief Justice John Roberts sided with the court’s four liberal justices and bought the Obama administration’s tortuous argument that the consequence for failing to comply with the mandate to buy health insurance was a “tax” — even though the president himself, during the debate about the law, repeatedly denied it was a “tax”; even though, as noted in the main dissent to the ruling, Congress rejected a version of the law that called for a “tax” as a penalty; even though Congress chose to use the word “tax” elsewhere in the law but not in reference to the penalty for failure to meet the mandate; even though the court’s majority decided it wasn’t a “tax” for purposes of the Anti-Injunction Act; and even though, again from the dissent, there are multiple instance of the federal government’s using its taxing apparatus to collect penalties that cannot possibly be considered “taxes.”
Judge for yourself whether it was judicially modest of the Roberts court to find any avenue possible to defer to the legislative branch, or judicially immodest to ignore Congress’ contradictory words and deeds in locating that avenue somewhere down a rabbit hole. No prizes for guessing where I stand.
My initial reaction to the taxing-power argument was that it pretty much offset any gain from the newly defined limit of Congress’ Commerce Clause powers. I am still not comforted by the court’s reasoning that Congress can tax someone for not buying something. And I am dismayed that Roberts not only justified this reasoning by comparing “not buying insurance” to “buying gasoline” or “earning income,” but also suggested a new tax Democrats could constitutionally try: a $50-per-household tax for not having energy-efficient windows. (Talk about getting kicked while you’re down.)
The more I think about it, however, all that is no more dismaying than knowing Congress can also decide to tax as much of a person’s income as it wants. The only thing standing in the way is the will of the people.
Which brings us to the biggest takeaway from today’s ruling. If Obamacare is to be reversed, it will have to be done by elected officials acting on the will of the people.
And that means it may not be a political victory for Obama.
It might be, of course. The prospects of re-electing Obama and/or keeping a majority in at least one chamber of Congress, and thereby keeping the law on the books, must be less daunting than trying to enact a new, similar (or even more far-reaching) health law. And while Obamacare is unpopular, there is a chance public opinion will shift in its favor now that the court has ruled. If so, that would boost Obama.
But there are other reasons it may hurt him: The intensity of Obamacare opponents will ratchet back up — remember how fired-up people were during the townhall meetings of 2009? If they have any political acumen whatsoever, Republicans will remind voters over and over again that Democrats sold the law as one thing (not a tax) only to win in court by saying something else (it’s a tax). Expect to see clips like this one and this one in GOP ads early and often.
Of course, the big question will be whether Mitt Romney is the one to capitalize on an issue like this, given his record on health reform (”Romneycare”) as governor of Massachusetts. I see two good ways for him to do it: First, frame the issue in part as an element of tax reform, and the need to get rid of a federal tax code that seeks to compel Americans to behave certain ways in exchange for one that gets government out of private individuals’ personal decisions and taxes only as much as it needs, without prejudice.
Second, to lend credibility to his promise to lead efforts to repeal Obamacare and replace it with something better, Romney should choose a running mate who can speak credibly about the issue. And in my mind, no one fits that description better than Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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512 comments Add your comment
retiredds
June 28th, 2012
3:43 pm
Kyle, replace is a ruse. The only thing R’s want is repeal, period. Whether you agree or not that’s the way I see it. (and I am not alone in this line of thinking).
St Simons - we're on Island time, mon
June 28th, 2012
3:44 pm
oh, lawd, you ought to see the boatloads, i mean oceanliner loads
of doctors piled up 16 deep on the docks waitin to ‘leave the country
down here, so they can practice their love on women in a freeeee
innerprise kuntry’…….oh wait….
Jefferson
June 28th, 2012
3:45 pm
You don’t have to get all mad about it.
retiredds
June 28th, 2012
3:52 pm
“With regards to the mandate, the individual responsibility program which I proposed, I was very pleased to see that the compromise from the two houses includes the personal responsibility principle,” Romney said in the 2006 about the MA individual mandate. “That is essential for bringing healthcare costs down for everyone and getting everybody the health insurance they deserve and need. So I was very, very pleased with that development.”
jconservative
June 28th, 2012
4:01 pm
The Court confirmed Congress has the authority to “regulate” commerce, but denied that Congress had the authority to “create” commerce to regulate.
“Which brings us to the biggest takeaway from today’s ruling. If Obamacare is to be reversed, it will have to be done by elected officials acting on the will of the people.”
And this is the way it should be done. As the CJ noted “It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices.” The people made a choice and elected a Democratic congress and a Democratic president. And they got Obamacare. The people have an easy remedy if they do not like the product.
It is evident from several decisions that this CJ is not quick to overrule the policies of government instituted by the duly elected representatives of the voters. And on that I agree with him.
JDW
June 28th, 2012
4:01 pm
@Kyle…of course the Republicans could always choose to stop this Party of No nonsense and actually come to the table to talk about actually creating solutions.
But I guess they would rather continue to rail against a Republican idea implemented by a Democratic President.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
4:03 pm
the big question will be whether Mitt Romney is the one to capitalize on an issue like this, given his record on health reform (”Romneycare”) as governor of Massachusetts…
mwuahahahahahahahahahaah
Jefferson
June 28th, 2012
4:04 pm
Will the GOP now focus and stop the war on women or have they not learned ?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
4:06 pm
Sounds like Kyle is saying that, outside of getting it repealed, the Republicans ought to not bother pursuing a better plan….
Like they were ever thinking of one in the first place? Giving his people a nice pass….
Aquagirl
June 28th, 2012
4:07 pm
remember how fired-up people were during the townhall meetings of 2009?
Who could forget “hands off my Medicare?” And when they threatened to set their hoverounds to ramming speed…man, that was scary.
Kyle Wingfield
June 28th, 2012
4:07 pm
jconservative @ 4:01: If you’re referring to this sentence, “But persuading the Supreme Court to void the law by declaring it beyond Congress’ power to regulate interstate commerce, while sincerely believed to be correct, was always a higher bar to clear,” the “it” refers to Obamacare. Not the ability to regulate interstate commerce generally.
Kyle Wingfield
June 28th, 2012
4:09 pm
Finn @ 4:06: Right, that’s why I keep saying “repeal and replace” … because I only want “repeal.”
Uh huh.
retired early
June 28th, 2012
4:09 pm
Kyle
You sure get riled up when you lose.
If you take a step back and look at the “big picture”, this law is the best way to stop the out of control cost of health care because it requires “everyone” to pay.
Why are you opposed to making 30 million freeloaders pay their fair share…sounds like a mainstream GOP idea to me. Oh, and don’t give me that “free country” crap as your rationalization.
I guess if “W” had proposed the same law you would all over it.
GT
June 28th, 2012
4:11 pm
The point you have always lost in this is “we” Obama did win the election. And if you ever win a majority again I think it only right you rule the country, you are the people’s choice. What you have done in the face of a majority, not yours, is to be destructive and put obstacles in place to make it almost impossible to rule as a majority. You have acted as terrorist distorting the truth. Even your own Judge Roberts couldn’t follow you upside down reality to agree with you.
It has always been about the vote in this country as long as you pass legal laws. I think watching the flavor of the week in your primary your people don’t know what they want from week to week. I am sure Romney is losing ground with that crowd as we speak. But get them out, light a fire in those tents, block traffic with old people protesting like they are not responsible for this mess in the first place. And if you win, unlike you, I will salute the president of this United States and I will never call him a liar at a state of the union speech or any other common disrespectful childish behavior. Things like today make me proud to be an American, and you people need to find more people like Roberts to fix your party, instead of Newt and Herman. It is called character get that and you start fixing the Republican Party.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
4:13 pm
Kyle you can say “replace” until the cows come home. Just like Romney saying “we will fix the economy” with every breath. Until you have something substantial in hand (maybe an outline for starters??) you are just blowing smoke.
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
4:18 pm
Kyle and the rest
“Let not your heart be troubled”
Sean Hannity
Michael H. Smith
June 28th, 2012
4:20 pm
Yes unfortunately Chief Justice Benedict Arnold Roberts did a legal dance and worse is what this little jig actually reveals: Under the tax powers of Congress there are no limits on the fascist imperial powers of the Federal Government.
I guess now we truly are all “Comrades”. The former Constitution is a worthless fools ideal that cannot protect anything from the fascist imperial Federal Government’s powers to tax you or I into submission. Best get use to reciting the Manifesto or face going to the Marxist internment camps for retaining and indoctrination as a loyal citizen of the U.S.S.A.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
4:21 pm
Looks like 4 more years of Romney on the campaign trail……sigh.
davetv
June 28th, 2012
4:22 pm
will someone explain to me why an insurance company would decide to lower their rates simply because everyone is now forced to buy a policy? What is their incentive? If the govt forced everyone to buy a car, would the price of cars go down? I always thought that when the demand for a product goes up, the price for that product will go up. Or, does that concept only apply to everything except health insurance?
Brosephus
June 28th, 2012
4:23 pm
Kyle
You, personally, may want repeal and replace. There may be many other voters who agree with you as well. Those in DC that have to make that ultimate decision, however, do not necessarily agree with you. Politico had a report the other day that quoted congressional insiders as saying the GOP had no plan to replace the ACA anytime now or in the near term had it been declared unconstitutional. That said, I don’t see how a ruling change will suddenly make a cogent and viable plan appear.
If/When a plan is presented, I’m willing to listen to see if it’s worth spending the effort to repeal the ACA. I don’t like the latest plan, nor did I like the system it replaced.
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
4:24 pm
Finn
Be the 1st to buy your “Didn’t work in 2012 see you in 2016″ Romney bumper stickers. He might set the record for the one who tried and tried…….
jconservative
June 28th, 2012
4:27 pm
Kyle Wingfield 4:07 pm jconservative @ 4:01: If you’re referring to this sentence, “But persuading the Supreme Court to void the law by declaring it beyond Congress’ power to regulate interstate commerce, while sincerely believed to be correct, was always a higher bar to clear,” the “it” refers to Obamacare. Not the ability to regulate interstate commerce generally.
No. The CJ gives a pretty good constitutional history of the Commerce Clause. Then he rules that Congress cannot use the Commerce Clause as justification for the mandate, that they could not create commerce where it has not previously existed. So my statement that “The Court confirmed Congress has the authority to “regulate” commerce, but denied that Congress had the authority to “create” commerce to regulate.
Before the passage of Obamacare there was no health care insurance interstate commerce by millions of people. Obamacare creates commerce by forcing millions of people to buy an insurance product and enter into interstate commerce. The CJ says no can do.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
June 28th, 2012
4:27 pm
This Election Just Became About Obamacare
And what is to like about it?
buh bye obozo
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
4:28 pm
davetv,
Sick people use health care alot more often than healthy people. If only the sick people bought insurance (and insurance companies couldn’t turn them down) then insurance companies would need more money to meet all the demands.
If you force healthy people to buy insurance (people who spend less on health care, see the doctor less, etc), then all their premiums help to counteract all the expenditures they are making for the sick people.
Sick people would be expenses for insurance companies while healthy people would be income for insurance companies..
curious
June 28th, 2012
4:30 pm
The Supreme Court was great when they okayed Citizens United.
Just goes to show you that 1 foul up erases 500 attaboys.
Dusty
June 28th, 2012
4:30 pm
hmmmmm “Let not your heart be troubled”. 4:18
Must be talking about liberals here . Just read most of the last ten or twelve comments. All happy that the Republican Party has been “corrected” and then “squeal like a pig” and other compliments. Aquagirl even got in a joke about someone disabled in a Hoveround.
Nothing like liberal pleasure to bring out the best.. They practiced their “best” for eight years with Bush.
GT
June 28th, 2012
4:32 pm
How do you reach this Federal Government power conclusion. I watched Bush practically kidnapping Americans from their families and forces them to serve multi terms in that thing you rigged up to be a war. You are hell bent on controlling a drug trade even if you have to kill every other body in this country you don’t lock up to do so. And only you go into a citizen’s bedroom and won’t allow wedding, something you put in the dumpster at record breaking rates, you respect it so much yourselves. Look at yourself mister. You are far more intrusive than what you worry about, and you will lie and cheat and kill to get back in power so you can make someone else miserable.
Michael H. Smith
June 28th, 2012
4:33 pm
I’m glad for the moment that WE do get to decide who goes to Washington DC to make those decisions Kyle. The entire democrat party and everything that identifies with it can go to HELL and for my part, I will send as many of them direction as I can with my vote against them from now until the end of eternity.
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
4:33 pm
“buh bye obozo”
Which polls and electoral college projections are saying that?
hahahahahaha
Dusty
June 28th, 2012
4:34 pm
FINN
You got the KEY WORDS right. You said “FORCE people to buy insurance!”
What else you want the government to FORCE us to do?
Michael H. Smith
June 28th, 2012
4:35 pm
How do you “NOT” reach this Federal Government power conclusion?
The rest of your horse shid comment is useless personal crap!
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
4:37 pm
Give it up for the Supremes
p://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRjCqaX2IvQ&feature=related
Everyone crying, yet no one is saying that more appellate courts than not decided it was at minimum partially constitutional. Right, Kyle?
Why no mention of one of Robert’s mentors I think who is on the DC court? What was his ruling?
Aaron Wemple
June 28th, 2012
4:37 pm
The more that we the people let them play, the more that we the people pay for, and suffer from corruption.
Look harder my dear friends. If you were a previous attorney, now president, wouldn’t you create a whole new health care market for all of your attorney friends to practice in if you could? Or, God forbid, let guns walk if it increased your business? This isn’t a political issue. Politics is a rouse. These are legal malpractice issues. Oppression and corruption at it’s ‘finest.’
The attorney clan will forever benefit from the recent Supreme Court Health care decision. And we the people will forever pay for it all, and suffer from it all. Or else risk going to jail. Or else Doctors fighting with insurance companies. Or else insurance companies & doctors fighting with patients. (Which all helps their business.) A win-all for them. But a loose-all for the rest of us.
They are the 0.3%-ers controlling 99.7% of the rest of the population. By politics, policies, fear, or flattery. Whatever it takes to make them a buck or a big ego!
We the people have now become slaves to one man’s ego!
Citizens for an Upright U.S.A. against official corruption.
See the real Head of Government at uprightusa.org under the link: LEGAL DEVELOPMENT and then the link THE REAL THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT
GT
June 28th, 2012
4:37 pm
Go get em tiger! Personally I think you just lost the election, maybe forever. You did it to yourselves, but for a while I thought you guys were going to get away with it. You should have never allowed Roberts all that education, you let one out of the box and the whole thing goes to hell.
John
June 28th, 2012
4:39 pm
In upholding the individual mandate, the Supreme Court sided with a Republican principal. It was a conservative idea since 1989. It was only in 2009, during the health care depate, that Republican abandoned their own idea of the individual mandate.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/28/individual-health-care-insurance-mandate-has-long-checkered-past/
Notice the source of this article.
Dusty
June 28th, 2012
4:40 pm
And there’s GT @ 4:32 , anti-war, anti-protection, anti-bedroom , pro drugs, etc etc etc. and…….
Worrying about BUSH still!….Standard outdated liberal procedure…..
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
4:42 pm
Get used to this feeling, you fake conservative corporatists.
The forecast for the rest of this year is ………………………………….. pain!
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
4:43 pm
Dusty, pipe down and go get a Triple Whopper and some super-sized fries. (And a Diet Coke!)
You’ll feel better, even if your arteries won’t…
Michael H. Smith
June 28th, 2012
4:43 pm
Hang around chump, your time is long over due and the loser circle was made for you and your ilk.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
June 28th, 2012
4:44 pm
And within less than four hours of the decision, the presumptive nominee’s (Romney’s) campaign had raised $1 million from online contributions.
And not one wedding gift.
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
4:45 pm
Michael @ 4:43
You must be looking at a mirror and talking to yourself
It is ok, just don’t answer back
Michael H. Smith
June 28th, 2012
4:45 pm
Don’t do it Dusty, it’s another liberal tax ploy.
Streetracer
June 28th, 2012
4:46 pm
So basically the court has said that the government has the power to tell me what brand of bread, or car or whatever I can buy?
Michael H Smith
June 28th, 2012
4:47 pm
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
4:45 pm
I’ll be talking in November and you will still be reading what I write.
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
4:48 pm
So basically the court has said that the government has the power to tell me what brand of bread, or car or whatever I can buy?
Only in Republispeak.
But not in English…
Michael H. Smith
June 28th, 2012
4:50 pm
So basically the court has said that the government has the power to tell me what brand of bread, or car or whatever I can buy?
Yep, that is the short version, minus the long taxing you into submission details.
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
4:50 pm
Guess the choice to hold the contempt vote for Holder along with what was a slam dunk rebuke of Obamacare turned out to be nothing more than a dud
Streetracer
June 28th, 2012
4:51 pm
AmVet:
If the government tells me I have to buy insurance, why can’t they tell me what else I have to buy?
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
4:52 pm
Michael
Wrong as you may be , talk on my man, talk on
Aquagirl
June 28th, 2012
4:52 pm
the court has said that the government has the power to tell me what brand of bread, or car or whatever I can buy?
The official scaredy-con meme is broccoli.
Try to keep up.
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
4:53 pm
Kyle
Get a column out there on the Holder contempt vote
Need to rile the base and rally the troops
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
4:53 pm
Streetracer, what if there were no rhetorical questions?
LOL!
Calm down, Alice. You’re not going to have to buy a Prius!
Michael H. Smith
June 28th, 2012
4:53 pm
Oh but federal government can make you do anything it wants to make you do by means of taxation. It is now the law of the land Comrade.
Richard
June 28th, 2012
4:56 pm
Kyle,
Just a thought, but if the Fair Tax was passed, would that instantly make Obamacare void?
Jefferson
June 28th, 2012
4:57 pm
Only a candyass would let the gov’t tell them what kind of bread to eat, that’s the doctors job.
Don Abernethy
June 28th, 2012
5:00 pm
Too bad there is not another country with a good constitution, conservative thinking, and high morals to move to.
This is a sad day for America. It is only a matter of time before we become just like Syria.
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
5:03 pm
Kyle
Better yet, save the contempt vote article for tomorrow. Your right leaning regulars will need more than just caffeine to get them out of bed in the morning
Canary
June 28th, 2012
5:04 pm
You have to buy car insurance or you don’t drive. You have to pay for roads through a gas tax. If you let a huge % opt out (free load) , the rest can’t afford car insurance and we won’t have any decent roads.
John
June 28th, 2012
5:08 pm
Mitt Romney is jumping on the Obama raised taxes bandwagon. Someone needs to remind him that when he points his finger there are 3 pointing back at him. Didn’t he also raise taxes when he signed into law RomneyCare? Guess he broke his pledge to never raise taxes.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 28th, 2012
5:08 pm
…but if the Fair Tax was passed…
Is that the same FairTax that can’t even get out of committee regardless of which party chairs it?
That FairTax?
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
5:08 pm
Don,
America. Love It or Leave it.
(I always wanted to throw that one right back in the face of the right wing faketriots.)
Not that I really give a rat’s ___ but I wonder exactly how many times this week that Tiberius the Hatefully Prescient One prognosticated that this legislation would be overturned.
LOL…
JDW
June 28th, 2012
5:09 pm
“And within less than four hours of the decision, the presumptive nominee’s (Romney’s) campaign had raised $1 million from online contributions.”
Sounds like contributions are slowing down as they raised an average of $2.4 million a day last month.
davetv
June 28th, 2012
5:09 pm
Finn, you tried to answer a question I didn’t ask. Tell me why would insurance companies choose to lower rates because everyone is forced to buy their product. Logical people would see that as a reason to raise the price of your product.
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
5:09 pm
Guess he broke his pledge to never raise taxes.
Flip done flopped…
JDW
June 28th, 2012
5:10 pm
@davetv…”Tell me why would insurance companies choose to lower rates because everyone is forced to buy their product.”
Because the law forces them to spend at least 80% of every dollar on care and some of them don’t do that.
Streetracer
June 28th, 2012
5:11 pm
Canary:
But that is State Law, not federal. If you don’t like it, you can move to another state where you might like the laws better.
AmVet:
Why can’t the government make someone buy a Prius?
dabir dalton
June 28th, 2012
5:11 pm
Kyle if the GOP had something better then Obamacare – other then allowing those without health care to die – conservative pundits such as yourself and republican politicians would have revealed it by now.
Michael H. Smith
June 28th, 2012
5:14 pm
Why can’t the government make someone buy a Prius?
Because Toyota is non-union, so you will be force to buy a Chevy Volt.
John
June 28th, 2012
5:15 pm
Kyle,
Given your position in what you wrote, do you believe Mitt Romney broke his anti-tax pledge he signed?
Kyle Wingfield
June 28th, 2012
5:15 pm
dabir dalton @ 5:11, and everyone else who plays the “GOP has no plan” card: I personally have written about a few alternatives, most recently here and here.
If that’s not enough, here’s a 27-page document listing the health-related bills introduced since January 2011 alone.
Ignorance doesn’t make it so.
Old Timer
June 28th, 2012
5:18 pm
Anyone want to make book on how many of Pelosi and Ree’s diciples get voted out this time? Even if Obama gets rel-elected they can keep his hands tied from more distruction of this country. As mention before I have lived through 13 Presidents and Obama is the worst–he makes Jimmy Carter look good-if his methods continue I feel sorry for the future of this country and our kids and grandkids. It won’t work–that is one of the reasons he is pushing Articel 21 of the National Nations. You folks that love Obama will eventually get your due and wonder why it is too late. Putting a degree in socialology, government or accounting won’t float in the coming enviroment. A degree in common sense might help some.
Michael H. Smith
June 28th, 2012
5:18 pm
dabir dalton
June 28th, 2012
5:11 pm
We conservatives have revealed better healthcare alternatives many times over but unfortunately not everyone supposedly on our side is with that program. Possibly that will change.
John
June 28th, 2012
5:20 pm
davetv,
Understand that law…80% of the money collected through insurance premiums must go directly to healthcare, 20% to administration cost, etc. If less than 80% goes directly to healthcare, then the insurance companies must make refund payments back to the consumer.
davetv
June 28th, 2012
5:21 pm
JDW. Covering everyone with pre-existing conditions ought to help eat up that 80%. Plus all the new taxes and regulations on medical supplies and drug companies. I bet insurance companies can hardly wait to start dropping their rates – not.
Aquagirl
June 28th, 2012
5:22 pm
It won’t work–that is one of the reasons he is pushing Articel 21 of the National Nations.
Just when you thought cons were fresh out of conspiracy theories….I guess the spot for paranoia in your brain is very close to the one for creativity.
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
5:22 pm
Why can’t the government make someone buy a Prius?
Because it doesn’t help Northrup Grumman, Raytheon, AIG or CitiGroup?
davetv
June 28th, 2012
5:22 pm
Plus all the people who don’t have to actually pay for their insurance will be running to the doctor for every hang-nail or sniffly nose.
Rafe Hollister, s avalancheuffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 28th, 2012
5:25 pm
Heard a great analysis by of all people Greg Gutfield, on Fox. He said Obama wrote a bad term paper and turned it in for a grade. Rather than give him the “F” he deserved, Roberts rewrote the paper for him and gave him an “A”. We all now suffer, thanks Justice Roberts.
Michael H. Smith
June 28th, 2012
5:26 pm
Plus all the people who don’t have to actually pay for their insurance will be running to the doctor for every hang-nail or sniffly nose.
hmmm…. does it kinda remind you of Medicaid or the abuse of emergency humanitarian medical aid?
killerj
June 28th, 2012
5:27 pm
America is headed for a scary future.
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
5:28 pm
Haven’t heard Palin opine (WHINE) yet………….. bet she need a fainting couch
Fox will be great comedy tonight. Was watching earlier. It was a HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT
Rafe Hollister, s avalancheuffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 28th, 2012
5:30 pm
Logical people would see that as a reason to raise the price of your product.
davetv
You are right, captive audience, required to purchase a product, what incentive is there to lower your price. Kinda like cable TV, accept there is no law requiring you to purchase cable, yet, but they know you aren’t going anywhere so they raise the price.
John
June 28th, 2012
5:31 pm
davetv,
From Forbes…
“…Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius announced that 12.8 million Americans would benefit from $1.1 billion in rebates.”
“Basically, the rule requires insurers to spend 80 percent of premium dollars on medical care and quality improvement. Those that do not must provide policyholders the difference in the form of a rebate.
Sebelius estimated each family covered by a policy would receive an average rebate of $151 across all markets.
The average rebate per family is expected to be $152 in the individual market, $174 in the small group market (small businesses) and $135 in the large group market (corporations), the government said.”
Rafe Hollister, s avalancheuffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 28th, 2012
5:32 pm
Love Reagan
Obama lied, Freedom died. (Sarah Palin)
Cutty
June 28th, 2012
5:34 pm
It’s enjoyable watching Wingfield and the rest of the cons stew like they lost their favorite blankey. Obama never called ACA a tax, Roberts defined it as such. It’s also ironic that the cons are so against a policy that they developed. Went from raging about it being constitutional, to it being a tax instantaneously. They had their talking points ready.
Republicans will never replace ACA with anything. Just smoke and mirrors to get votes. Kyle says that this may not be a political victory for the President, EVEN THOUGH it is. And what does Kyle know about anything, he voted for Newt.
Rafe Hollister, s avalancheuffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 28th, 2012
5:35 pm
Holder in contempt, civil and criminal. 21 Dems join GOP.
John
June 28th, 2012
5:36 pm
davetv,
From the Shreveport Times…
“Health insurance companies must refund $4.1 million to Louisiana residents by Aug. 1.
The refunds are part of the federal Affordable Care Act. Insurance companies that spend less than 80 percent of premiums on medical care and quality must refund part of the premiums.”
From the Orlando Sentinel…
“1.3 million Floridians can expect a rebate from their health-insurance company this summer, according to a report released Thursday from the Department of Health and Human Services.
In all, health-insurance plans will pay out $124 million in rebates to 736,000 Florida households by Aug. 1. The refund, which averages $168, comes courtesy of the health-care overhaul that took effect last year.”
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
5:38 pm
Roberts rewrote the paper for him and gave him an “A”.
Stupid. But then those faketriot Bushbots at Fox never did have much respect for the law of the land.
Speaking of stupid:
From Rush Limbaugh:
”The chief justice was hell-bent to find a way to make this law applicable, so he just decided, you know what, as a tax increase, it works, because there’s no limit on the federal government’s ability to tax….Even when they don’t ask for it, the Supreme Court is gonna find a way to make what they want to do legal because John Roberts said it’s not our job here to forbid this. It’s not our job to protect people from outcomes.”
I’ve always loved the fervor with which the fake conservatives can quickly round up a circular firing squad.
Now it’s time to add cannibalism to their curriculum vitae…
davetv
June 28th, 2012
5:40 pm
John, I question anything Sebelius says. They all sugar-coat everything. I imagine there will be an awful lot of stuff that will be considered “quality improvement”. Insurance prices will go up.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 28th, 2012
5:40 pm
John
June 28th, 2012
5:36 pm
————————–
Parasites just loves gettin’ a check in the mail!
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
5:41 pm
Parasites just loves gettin’ a check in the mail!
Hey! Lay off of the mega-corporations, OK?
Old Timer
June 28th, 2012
5:42 pm
Aquagirl you need to get informed. I attended a meeting today with emergency management people in our county and they were trying to get us to sign off on it–You might read it and find out what it says before you critize. Kyle you could do a few columns on the proposal.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 28th, 2012
5:43 pm
AmVet: Hey! Lay off of the mega-corporations, OK?
———————-
If you have a problem with mega-corporations, don’t do business with them.
Oops, you no longer have that option!
Thanks, liberal fascists.
davetv
June 28th, 2012
5:44 pm
This is a great day for America. A final wake-up call that we’ve given up our liberties to an all-powerful federal government. Tyranny will not stand.
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
5:44 pm
THAT is your excuse for them being parasites???
Otay…
JDW
June 28th, 2012
5:45 pm
@Davetv…”I bet insurance companies can hardly wait to start dropping their rates – not.”
I don’t expect to see rates go down. I do expect more access, at fairer price points and slower rate of increase. You have to remember that less than 20% of insurance is individual. All other forms already cover existing conditions with no extra premium. Now you are going to make the pool bigger and spread the risk. That bit is not going to cause big increases.
Filter
June 28th, 2012
5:45 pm
Kyle,
If the mantra “repeal AND replace” fits then what is the right’s proposal for the replacement.
I have heard an awful lot about repeal but as for replace….not so much (outside of the word itself).
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
5:45 pm
davetv,
I suspect that the sale of fainting couches is going through the roof as I write this…
Rafe Hollister, s avalancheuffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 28th, 2012
5:45 pm
Sounds like they were smart enough to try to get the folks addicted to rebates, kinda like a drug dealer offering a few free magic crystals to a potential meth head. A tried and true endeavor that works most every time.
Bob Baldwin
June 28th, 2012
5:46 pm
To bad the Republicans didn’t implement all those healthcare ideas when they had the helm.
At least they’re concerned now. I only wish they had even introduced some of those ideas. If they did, I don’t remember hearing much about it.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 28th, 2012
5:47 pm
Corporations providing a product that folks are desperate to buy (or to have taxpayers buy for them) aren’t parasites.
Folks who demand their fellow taxpayers pay their bills for them are parasites.
And da parasites jes’ loves gettin dat check in da mail!
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
5:48 pm
It is clearly the most significant piece of social legislation in decades. ~Charles Krauthammer
ALL significant legislation in this country is passed by non-conservatives, Charles.
Going back to the Civil Rights movement…
Neocons DO NOT pass significant legislation.
They only try to obstruct it.
Aquagirl
June 28th, 2012
5:49 pm
If that’s not enough, here’s a 27-page document listing the health-related bills introduced since January 2011 alone.
I could only wade through the first few pages before the “repeal Obamacare” bills became so repetitive I couldn’t read for laughing. Is there anything beyond the Empowering Patients First Act (HR 105) that even approaches a real plan?
Bills for dog therapy with Veterans are great but saying that’s an alternative to Obamacare is silly.
Rafe Hollister, s avalancheuffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 28th, 2012
5:52 pm
never did have much respect for the law of the land.
I have to laugh, the guy you support Amvet, picks and chooses which law he supports. Is DOMA and the Immigration laws the law of the land. Another ridiculous statement posted by Amvet.
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
5:52 pm
The neocon’s desired end game.
Corporations pay no taxes.
The super-rich pay no taxes.
The neocons themselves pay no taxes. (This is where the guppies are getting hammered though.)
The whole lot are parasites or parasite wannabes.
Rafe Hollister, s avalancheuffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 28th, 2012
5:53 pm
Which law he enforces, it should say.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 28th, 2012
5:55 pm
AmTard, the non-ignorant know that the rich pay almost all the income taxes.
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
5:55 pm
the guy you support Amvet…
I voted against him, you Republistooge.
And will do so again, in November.
You on the other hand voted (twice!) for Georgie and Dickie who wiped their azzes with the US Constitution and US law for eight straight years.
And do keep this one in mind, “Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth (or use your keyboard) and remove all doubt.”
davetv
June 28th, 2012
5:56 pm
AmVet – A parasite is an organism that feeds off another without giving any benefit to the host. You tell us which entity/group fits that description.
John
June 28th, 2012
5:57 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward–Again)
“Parasites just loves gettin’ a check in the mail!”
Does parasites include people who get a tax refund? Or only individuals who receive a refund from private corporations?
DannyX
June 28th, 2012
5:58 pm
Roberts obviously never signed the Norquist no new taxes pledge.
You would have thought W would have made him sign it before nominating him.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 28th, 2012
5:58 pm
A parasite is an organism that feeds off another without giving any benefit to the host. You tell us which entity/group fits that description.
Insurance companies.
davetv
June 28th, 2012
5:58 pm
Will there be an outcry when Romney refuses to enforce the provisions of Obamacare?
davetv
June 28th, 2012
5:59 pm
Thug – If u believe Ins. Comps are parasites… then why are we now forced to give them our money?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 28th, 2012
6:01 pm
John: Does parasites include people who get a tax refund? Or only individuals who receive a refund from private corporations?
———————
Ask a coherent question, please.
Your federal government spends more than $10,000 for every man, woman, and child. I’ll have to let you determine who the parasites are. As far as I’m concerned, it’s anyone who isn’t paying this fair share.
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
6:01 pm
Bailout, I do love helping you meltdown. Gawd I miss you at Bookman’s. Too bad your foul mouth and endless childish insults got you canned. Even after you had been warned repeatedly. That is how little self-restraint you have
I suppose if I was really interested I could get you to implode so badly you would get canned from here too.
But I like watching you insult people like a nine year old when your arguments are challenged as weak.
And you LOVE picking up the corporate parasites tab, bailout.
Which is fine by me.
I wish you neocons got saddled with all of it…
Rafe Hollister, s avalancheuffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 28th, 2012
6:01 pm
“Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth (or use your keyboard) and remove all doubt.”
I know, I think that every time I see that you have once again brought your inane insights to this blog. Someone who votes neither one, is just part of the chaff at the bottom of the ballot box.
davetv
June 28th, 2012
6:01 pm
John – A parasite gets a tax refund after never paying taxes.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 28th, 2012
6:02 pm
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes: Insurance companies.
—————————-
If you don’t find their product to be of value, don’t buy it. Simple.
Funny thing though–everybody DOES want it. They just want someone else to pay for it, and that’s what makes them parasites.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 28th, 2012
6:02 pm
… then why are we now forced to give them our money?
Because Obama wimped out and caved on the single payer thingie.
DannyX
June 28th, 2012
6:03 pm
“Will there be an outcry when Romney refuses to enforce the provisions of Obamacare?”
No, Romney is not well liked in Massachusetts, a second term as governor is out of the question.
John
June 28th, 2012
6:03 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward–Again)
ObamaCare is going to force millions of “parasites” to now be responsible and buy their own health insurance…you and other conservatives are against that? Isn’t that the conservative mantra…individual responsibility?
davetv
June 28th, 2012
6:04 pm
Parasite = tax$ funded green-energy companies. They suck up our money and provide no value in return.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 28th, 2012
6:05 pm
If you don’t find their product to be of value, don’t buy it. Simple.
Just try getting quality health care by paying cash, sport.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 28th, 2012
6:05 pm
John: ObamaCare is going to force millions of “parasites” to now be responsible and buy their own health insurance
——————–
More ignorance on display.
How do you suppose a family with an income of $30,000 is going to afford that $12,000 a year premium?
You’re clueless.
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
6:06 pm
davetv,
The 485,000 American households who make between $100,000 and $500,000 in any given year and who pay no federal withholding tax.
But if you want to know about super-parasites, I would reserve that definition for 18,000 American households who make $500,000 or more in any given year and don’t pay one single penny in federal withholding taxes.
Is that he answer you were looking for?
I thought so…
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 28th, 2012
6:07 pm
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes: Just try getting quality health care by paying cash, sport.
——————
Well, which is it then? Is health insurance of value to you or not?
Democrats: Economic retards.
John
June 28th, 2012
6:07 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward–Again)
“As far as I’m concerned, it’s anyone who isn’t paying this fair share.”
And yet you’re against the individual mandate which forces people to pay their fair share when it come to healthcare.
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
6:08 pm
John – A parasite gets a tax refund after never paying taxes.
Like the dozens and dozens of major corporations which are making RECORD PROFITS?
You boys sure do love your twisted, perverted capitalism…
davetv
June 28th, 2012
6:09 pm
John- you’re kidding yourself if you think there are millions of people out there who can afford health insurance and have simply chosen not to buy it. All responsible people (who can afford it) already buy insurance because they have too much to lose.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 28th, 2012
6:09 pm
John: And yet you’re against the individual mandate which forces people to pay their fair share when it come to healthcare.
————————-
Yeah, I’m pretty much against forcing people to do anything. I like freedom. You liberal fascists don’t seem to have too much of a problem with forcing people to do all sorts of things though.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 28th, 2012
6:10 pm
Well, which is it then? Is health insurance of value to you or not?
Democrats: Economic retards.
How did you put it?
Oh yeah, You’re clueless.
John
June 28th, 2012
6:10 pm
davetv,
Does that include the large corporations that don’t pay taxes?
Rafe Hollister, s avalancheuffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 28th, 2012
6:10 pm
ObamaCare is going to force millions of “parasites” to now be responsible and buy their own health insurance
Will Food Stamps now cover insurance premiums? These people have no job and in an Obamaeconomy will not have anytime soon.
davetv
June 28th, 2012
6:12 pm
AmVet – I doubt your stated figures.
John
June 28th, 2012
6:13 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward–Again) ,
Where are your facts? Are you telling me the cheapest health insurance policy is $12,000? I can show you mine and it’s no where near that.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 28th, 2012
6:13 pm
Kammy, don’t cry just ‘cuz I asked you a question that you don’t want to answer.
Coward.
Towncrier
June 28th, 2012
6:13 pm
“Unfortunately, Chief Justice John Roberts sided with the court’s four liberal justices and bought the Obama administration’s tortuous argument that the consequence for failing to comply with the mandate to buy health insurance was a “tax” — even though the president himself, during the debate about the law, repeatedly denied it was a “tax”
I guess sort of like the time he confused the Declaration of Independence with the Constitution, Kyle. I guess a JD from Harvard and a couple of bucks will get you a Starbucks coffee.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 28th, 2012
6:14 pm
But if you want to know about super-parasites, I would reserve that definition for 18,000 American households who make $500,000 or more in any given year and don’t pay one single penny in federal withholding taxes.
Amvet, I thought you supported people who obeyed and respected the law. Well, if these people are breaking the law, then report them to the IRS, they pay a rebate to the snitch, if they recover money.
If they are breaking no law, your problem should be addressed to Oblamer and the Congress, not these law abiding people.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 28th, 2012
6:15 pm
Go ahead and quibble over the exact number John. That way you won’t have to explain how a family making $30K a year is going to pay for an insurance policy.
The answer is…surprise…the taxpayer is going to be paying for these free riders, just like before.
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
6:15 pm
These people have no job and in an Obamaeconomy will not have anytime soon.
The consequences of the corporate destruction of capitalism.
Or as Richard Fischer, the Dallas Federal Reserve chief called it, “the sustained orgy of excess and reckless behavior”.
The banksters and casino capitalists should have gotten jail time rather than getting bailed out…
Well done wall Street…
Thomas Heyward Jr.
June 28th, 2012
6:15 pm
From mittromney.org———————
“As president, Mitt will nominate judges in the mold of Chief Justice Roberts…[Roberts] hold[s] dear what the great Chief Justice John Marshall called “the basis on which the whole American fabric has been erected”: a written Constitution, with real and determinate meaning. The judges that Mitt nominates will exhibit a genuine appreciation for the text, structure, and history of our Constitution and interpret the Constitution and the laws as they are written. And his nominees will possess a demonstrated record of adherence to these core principles.”
.
ha ha ha aha ahha ha aha ha .
.
Its not too late ………..Ron Paul.
davetv
June 28th, 2012
6:16 pm
If there truly are “large corporations who don’t pay taxes” then that is a problem with the tax code which should be fixed. At least those companies provide a good or service which people are willing to purchase.
Towncrier
June 28th, 2012
6:17 pm
“I could only wade through the first few pages before the “repeal Obamacare” bills became so repetitive I couldn’t read for laughing.”
I surely though you might have swam through them, “Aquagirl”. BTW, how long have you been all wet?
Towncrier
June 28th, 2012
6:18 pm
“And in my mind, no one fits that description better than Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal.”
Is he being vetted, Kyle?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 28th, 2012
6:18 pm
Lil BB Brain
I’ve been paying cash for my healthcare for years. The medical staff have been nothing but professional and caring.
The administration, however, have accused me of being a thief because they thought I wouldn’t pay before the procedure.
You’re clueless.
md
June 28th, 2012
6:18 pm
For those on the left trying to debate that it is not a tax, so Obama was not lying, unfortunately, today’s ruling says otherwise…….no matter what anyone says from here on out it IS a tax, so says the SC forever and ever.
It’s going to get old hearing how the dems lied to the country, but they wrote the law.
John
June 28th, 2012
6:18 pm
davetv,
“you’re kidding yourself if you think there are millions of people out there who can afford health insurance and have simply chosen not to buy it. All responsible people (who can afford it) already buy insurance because they have too much to lose.”
Even conservative Rebublicans would argue against you on that. That just goes against your “parasite” argument.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 28th, 2012
6:19 pm
John
Where are your facts? Are you telling me the cheapest health insurance policy is $12,000? I can show you mine and it’s no where near that.
Do you include the major portion your employer is paying? Your premium may go up, when your employer elects to just pay the fine.
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
6:19 pm
AmVet – I doubt your stated figures.
Of course, you do.
Because you have none of your own.
On this or any other matter.
It is my considerable experience on these forums that the overwhelming majority of you neocons do not do any research.
And to Rafe’s point, we have had 40,000,000 jobs in this country lost or sent overseas since 1973. But only since January 21, 2009 was that subject even on the GOP’s radar…
Thanks, Bain Capital…
christian champagne
June 28th, 2012
6:19 pm
Mr Wingfield this is a fair minded article until you mentioned Bobby Jindal. I live in La and am a registered republican. obviously you don’t know Bobby Jindal or you think you do. In my opinion he is the biggest disappointment in a leader in my lifetime which is saying quite a bit in La. Bottom line he is an extremely unattractive candidate in manner, in speaking ability, and he is selfsih and in my opinion not truthful He is transparently fraudulent in my opinion ans I was originally very excited about his candidacy for Governor as i felt he would be something new and positive but alas he is AWFUL… If he is the Vp candidate he will be an embarrassment and conservatives if you really care and are not dishonest people need to understand the reality of Jindal. I warned you bra!
davetv
June 28th, 2012
6:20 pm
And for you who cry about companies making “record profits” you might also consider they are also spending record amounts of costs to do business, paying record amounts of taxes, and making record low profit margins.
ima.libtard.00
June 28th, 2012
6:20 pm
Beauty!!! I just watched the SECOND yew-toob video… SMACK!!! Back up… Reverse it!!!
This is going to be DEADLY for Obama!
I ALSO read the official complaint that Romney issued to Washington Post’s article about “he sent jobs oversea” that Obama has been PUMMELING us all with on TV. BIG FAT LIE!!! Romney did NOT send jobs overseas – HE CREATED THEM HER and WASN’T EVEN WORKING FOR BAIN for TWO of them! I smell a lawsuit on that one AND a retraction of that Political Commercial LIE!
This is going to be a WILD RIDE, folks!
independent thinker
June 28th, 2012
6:21 pm
It is amazing how the right wing sheep see anything that is a penalty or surcharge for not paying for a service as the horrible evil use of the taxing power of the government. I guess they all worship at the feet of Grover Norquist. Guess what if you own a home you get taxed for education of other people’s kids if you have no school age children. You get penalized if you do not mow your grass by the code compliance officers and even if you like high grass. You get penalized or taxed for medicare and social security even if you have private pension and private insurance. You get fined in some counties if your toilet tank is too big even if it makes crap go down better.What Obamacare does not do is tax the general public for free medicare drugs that are not funded by the medicare recipients (George W.)who use them and it does not allow anyone who is not poor or elderly to waltz into an emergency room and get everyone else to pay for their treatment since they chose not to buy insurance (Reagan). Anyway John Roberts determined the individual mandate was not a tax. So deal with it.
davetv
June 28th, 2012
6:22 pm
John – Even conservative Rebublicans would argue against you on that. That just goes against your “parasite” argument.
No, they wouldn’t and No, it doesn’t
md
June 28th, 2012
6:23 pm
“It is amazing how the right wing sheep see anything that is a penalty or surcharge for not paying for a service as the horrible evil use of the taxing power of the government.”
Can’t have it both ways……it was a 5-4 decision for Obama…….and a decision that clarifies it as a “tax”………..
TRUTH
June 28th, 2012
6:23 pm
GOP = MASSIVE, EARTH ALTERING, FAIL! I SAY AGAIN, FAIL!!
WINNERS = THE AMERICAN PEOPLE!!
NOW!! TIME FOR SINGLE PAYER!! HEALTHCARE FOR EVERYONE!!
GOP ANGST!
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
June 28th, 2012
6:23 pm
A corporation makes a product and sells it to the public. The public has a choice on whether to buy or not, no gun is held to their heads, but give obozo time, he will correct that. Products, like, let’s say for instance, computers and internet connections.
Now, your average pinko, you can tell who I’m talking about by the amount of lies and poison they are full of today, will tell you that the corporation that sold you that product is making “obscene profits,” even though no one told you to buy that computer or house or argula or whatever it is was shelled the money out for. You had a choice, unless it was union dues or health care or taxes, but that’s a different dissertation. You had every right to say, screw you, man, I ain’t buying your toilet paper, I’ll use today’s copy of the Urinal. Or you could pulp your own wood into tissue. Or you could start your own company, sell your stuff at cost and forage the Earth to survive. Your decision. Drill for your own oil, clown. Or buy skateboard from a fellow, profit free liberal and ride on down the highway with it.
That being said, what, exactly, does your average layabout dummycrat parasite contribute to our society?
I’m waiting…
GFY
June 28th, 2012
6:23 pm
“Considerable expierence on these forums…..” sounds like a parasite with time on their hands….mail truck just stopped at your door with your meds!!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 28th, 2012
6:25 pm
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes: I’ve been paying cash for my healthcare for years. The medical staff have been nothing but professional and caring.
————————
Nevertheless, most folks are clamoring for health insurance. They are more than willing to pay (or have taxpayers pay on their behalf) for this product to manage the risk of a catastrophic illness or injury.
Somehow, economic retards like you got it in their heads that this product should be “free”.
John
June 28th, 2012
6:25 pm
md,
“For those on the left trying to debate that it is not a tax, so Obama was not lying, unfortunately, today’s ruling says otherwise”
I’ve asked this before and every conservative on here ignored it, including Kyle. If that is true, then isn’t it also true Mitt Romney broke his anti-tax pledge he signed (yes, it’s in writing) when he signed RomneyCare into law?
TRUTH
June 28th, 2012
6:25 pm
OH, ALMOST FORGOT… @ GOP… BWHAAHAHAHHAHHAHHAHHHHAHAHHAHAHHA!!!
davetv
June 28th, 2012
6:26 pm
Spout blatant lies and call it research. Nice.
GFY
June 28th, 2012
6:26 pm
Bookman’s site will be slow today….oh well maybe he still has Granny Godzilla and the venerable AmVet with multiple windows on his gov’t provided high speed internet….
GFY
June 28th, 2012
6:28 pm
Lil’:
These ‘tards have no shame in taking other people’s money…..maybe we should just call them Greeks.
JDW
June 28th, 2012
6:28 pm
@LBB…”non-ignorant know that the rich pay almost all the income taxes.”
The non-ignorant also know that income taxes provide less than 1/2 of government revenue.
davetv
June 28th, 2012
6:30 pm
Gotta run off to work so I can pay my fair share of the parasite’s health care.
iggy
June 28th, 2012
6:30 pm
One good thing about this is that most of the people who wanted ObamaCare are the poor “will nots” who think they have won the sweepstakes. And they are correct. They have won the tax increase sweepstakes.
They are a miserable, jealous, lot and will remain so. Im happy for them.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 28th, 2012
6:30 pm
JDW: The non-ignorant also know that income taxes provide less than 1/2 of government revenue.
——————–
Yeah, especially since Obozo is borrowing about 40% of the revenue.
John
June 28th, 2012
6:31 pm
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer’s ineptocracy
Why do you assume I have employor paid health insurance? As a consultant, I’ve had to buy my own private policy and it’s now where’s near your 12,000 figure.
iggy
June 28th, 2012
6:32 pm
“I’ve asked this before and every conservative on here ignored it, including Kyle. If that is true, then isn’t it also true Mitt Romney broke his anti-tax pledge he signed (yes, it’s in writing) when he signed RomneyCare into law?”
The answer to your question is……*drum roll please……a RESOUNDING, NO!!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 28th, 2012
6:32 pm
When does that cost curve start to get bent down? Can’t wait for that!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
6:33 pm
So, which side of Mt Rushmore do we chisel Judge Robert’s face into?
GFY
June 28th, 2012
6:33 pm
JDW:
care to guess what will happen when China tells us to go pound sand and they will not loan us money to buy their products…..the money printing presses will begin and the cruel inflation boogie man will be coming to your door.
John
June 28th, 2012
6:34 pm
davetv,
Get your facts straight. Corporations are sitting on tons on money. Instead of putting money back into the economy via hiring, etc., corpoartions are hoarding money.
getalife
June 28th, 2012
6:34 pm
Told ya it would pass cons.
I agree about jindal.
willard/bachmann.
The scary ticket.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 28th, 2012
6:34 pm
So, which side of Mt Rushmore do we chisel Judge Robert’s face into?
The backside, where else.
GFY
June 28th, 2012
6:34 pm
Only when BO can get the CBO to go along with his bogus cost curve estimates……
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
6:34 pm
Meat, go lynch a gay person.
…making record low profit margins..
davetv, out of whose rectal orifice do you get this stuff?
They are above 10%, a margin tha texceeds those of even the 1950s.
http://tinyurl.com/6qpuzj2
getalife
June 28th, 2012
6:36 pm
Oops, I agree with christian champagne on jindal .
palin is available.
GFY
June 28th, 2012
6:36 pm
Do tell, John the Consultant, why those corporations are sitting on the hoards of cash?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 28th, 2012
6:37 pm
Do tell, John the Consultant, why those corporations are sitting on the hoards of cash?
Because they can.
GFY
June 28th, 2012
6:37 pm
Where in Decatur do you live?
GFY
June 28th, 2012
6:38 pm
When did you stop beating your spouse?
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
6:39 pm
why those corporations are sitting on the hoards of cash?
I see the answer to the question that I asked at 6:34!
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 28th, 2012
6:39 pm
When did you stop beating your spouse?
Which one?
GFY
June 28th, 2012
6:40 pm
Yes they can…..until BO tries to raid their coffers as well.
John
June 28th, 2012
6:40 pm
iggy,
“The answer to your question is……*drum roll please……a RESOUNDING, NO!!”
And your rationale for that? RomneyCare has the same individual mandate which taxes anyone who doesn’t have health insurance.
Streetracer
June 28th, 2012
6:40 pm
AmVet @6:08
I should think that you know that companies that make a profit pay taxes on that profit unlike the the 48% households that pay no federal taxes at all
GFY
June 28th, 2012
6:41 pm
Kamchak….now that’s funny….I don’t care what AmVet says….that is funny stuff.
iggy
June 28th, 2012
6:41 pm
“Do tell, John the Consultant, why those corporations are sitting on the hoards of cash?”
The big bad business boogieMan is sitting on tons of cash and they are not gonna release it because they have to pay the tax man. So get ready…more layoffs coming for YOU!
iggy
June 28th, 2012
6:42 pm
“And your rationale for that? RomneyCare has the same individual mandate which taxes anyone who doesn’t have health insurance.”
Im sorry my good man but you are again, wrong.
NEXT!!
GFY
June 28th, 2012
6:43 pm
AmVet…..thanks for the tip on spell check and grammar check….you are on top of it. Not sure what “it” is though but you are on top of it/riding it.
Dave
June 28th, 2012
6:43 pm
The only thing I haven’t read or heard today is that the Chief Justice is an “activist” judge. I do love the right’s reaction, we’re going to “repeal” that darn law. Maybe in the House, not in the Senate. That being the case, if Speaker Boehner or Gov. Romney, or someone else, have a better idea, bring it on. If it’s cheaper or gives more health care for less money, I’m on their side. But, I’ve got a good sum of money available for wager that no one on the right is going to offer any specifics this year before the election or next year, win or lose in November, after the election. After all the GOP’s entire goal in life these days is to oppose what the President wants.
I’m not a Democrat; though, I’m, decidedly not a Republican. The latter party still seems to me to be the party of “no.” Whatever Obama wants, no. No alternative, just no. We aren’t going to tell you anything about what we propose, just no and trust us. Sorry but I don’t.
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
6:43 pm
Tiberius Meat, I get it. this has been a really, really, really bad day for you GOP First, America Second boys.
Get used to it.
There are plenty more coming…
I should think that you know that companies that make a profit pay taxes on that profit…
Street, considering that 30 major corporations made billions of dollars in profits while paying no federal income tax between 2008 and 2010, I find that an odd statement.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 28th, 2012
6:44 pm
Kamchak….now that’s funny….I don’t care what AmVet says….that is funny stuff.
You know, when I awoke this am I said to myself, “Self, what can you do today to make CommieAJC laugh?”
Good to know I accomplished that one little thing today.
GFY
June 28th, 2012
6:44 pm
Do you drive a Subaru?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 28th, 2012
6:45 pm
Do you drive a Subaru?
No.
John
June 28th, 2012
6:47 pm
Streetracer,
Just to name a few…
Verizon Communications
Profits: $19.8 billion Effective tax rate: -3.8%
General Electric
Profits: $19.6 billion Effective tax rate: -18.9%
Boeing
Profits: $14.8 billion Effective tax rate: -5.5%
NextEra Energy: North America’s largest solar and wind power operator, based in Florida
Profits: $8.8 billion Effective tax rate: -2%
American Electric Power: Electric utility based in Columbus, Ohio
Profits: $8.2 billion Effective tax rate: -6.4%
Pacific Gas & Electric: California electrical utility
Profits: $6 billion Effective tax rate: -8.4%
Apache: Houston-based oil and gas company
Profits: $6 billion Effective tax rate: -0.3%
Consolidated Edison: New York energy company
Profits: $5.9 billion Effective tax rate: -1.3%
El Paso: Houston-based energy company that operates the country’s largest natural gas pipeline
Profits: $4.6 billion Effective tax rate: -0.9%
CenterPoint Energy: Electric and gas utility company based in Houston
Profits: $3.1 billion Effective tax rate: -11.3%
GFY
June 28th, 2012
6:47 pm
Deferred taxes escapes the concept of some…..the answer to all questions is make corporations pay more taxes, right AmVet? I would hazard to guess that AmVet pays as much as he can in taxes….in other words, NOTHING.
ima.libtard.00
June 28th, 2012
6:48 pm
JDW @ 5:09 pm
“And within less than four hours of the decision, the presumptive nominee’s (Romney’s) campaign had raised $1 million from online contributions.”
Sounds like contributions are slowing down as they raised an average of $2.4 million a day last month.
===========
Nope – 6:45 on the Evening News… more than $2m and rising…
SUCKER!!!!
GFY
June 28th, 2012
6:48 pm
Subaru and Decatur questions were for the AmVet…..maybe AmVet is housed on Clairmont VA.
Oduma and Dumber Company
June 28th, 2012
6:50 pm
I see Bookman closed down his playground and dismissed his children for recess.
GFY
June 28th, 2012
6:52 pm
Later parasites…..going to sit by pool and hatch me another scheme to pay less taxes to prevent you leeches from getting Money for nothing and your Viagra for free…..
ima.libtard.00
June 28th, 2012
6:53 pm
Be willing to bet AmVet is not a Vet… SCOTUS ruled it’s ok to lie about it…
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 28th, 2012
6:56 pm
I see Bookman closed down his playground…
No, his site is still up and running.
Do you need to get your eyes checked so that you can “see” better?
Apropos that this thread is about healthcare, huh?
Streetracer
June 28th, 2012
6:56 pm
GFY:
No, I don’t! But based on this decision, the goverment could require me to if they choose.
NCR
June 28th, 2012
6:56 pm
Hey young Democratic voters, how do you feel about your President now that he’s forcing you to either buy insurance, or pay a penalty tax? You got the change that you were promised!!! LOL!
Sandra
June 28th, 2012
7:00 pm
Several of the people on this are really so ridiculous about this whole thing with Kyle leading the pack.
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
7:00 pm
CommieAJC! What a dufus that guy was!
Lord knows this one has used a bunch of names, Kam, but GFY is still the same puerile, mentally challenged coward.
The theme of this evening is that the corporatist Republicans are NOT conservatives.
They advocate for the rich and for their corporate overlords.They hate our government and would love to see it go away. Or drowned in a bathtub. They are the anti-patriots. But they sure are impressed with that giant American flag at 10 Wall Street!
They work again their own middle class neighborhoods, families and communities.
They are not remotely concerned that wages for the huge majority of Americans have been stagnate/flat-lined for four straight decades! In fact the GFYs and davetvs of this country contend that that is not even the case.
Ask them about the beginning of the end for us via the Powell Memorandum and Reagan’s trickle down policies and they will look at you with empty stares.
Notwithstanding their self-imposed ignorance, nearly three out of four Americans now make less in adjusted inflation dollars now than they did in 1973. Even their productivity has doubled.
And the minimum wage is worth less now than it was in 1968.
But talk of raising it to even that level and OMG! Are you serious,? That would cost us millions of jobs!!! And don’t even think about telling them that their middle class money has been redistributed UP the food chain. They won’t hear of it.
This is how manipulated and delusional they have become.
And the GOP economic policies that they know nothing about but support anyway are designed to further drive down working wages.
And primarily because of them, we are now royally screwed
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
7:05 pm
ima.libtard.00
You are a petulant child. Your moniker screams it.
And know that when someone was still cleaning your sh*tty diapers, I was raising my right hand to defend this country against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
Not that you have ever given a flyin f&ck about the troops – active duty or veterans.
BTW child, are you related to Dusty?
Ray
June 28th, 2012
7:10 pm
Kyle,
The GOP, Broun, plan you refers us to falls short of anything that might make a dent
in a massive problem. It was only 51 pages, Forbes article you linked us to stated “Broun’s bill is divided into five parts: (1) repealing Obamacare; (2) changing the tax treatment of health expenditures; (3) Medicare premium support; (4) reforms of EMTALA, the federal mandate that forces emergency rooms to care for people regardless of their ability to pay; and (5) allowing people to purchase insurance across state lines, and small businesses to band together to purchase lower-cost association health plans (AHPs).
There is no mention of pre-existing conditions, establishing a high risk pool in Georgia, covering young dependent children, …
Every day a health care plan is not implemented in this state, is individuals die needlessly. 35 states have high risk pools, some of them dating back to the mid 70s. When Georgia has one of the highest mortality rates in the nation, why did it drag its feet to health care reform. It is shameful.
@@
June 28th, 2012
7:12 pm
Roberts not only justified this reasoning by comparing “not buying insurance” to “buying gasoline” or “earning income,” but also suggested a new tax Democrats could constitutionally try: a $50-per-household tax for not having energy-efficient windows. (Talk about getting kicked while you’re down.)
Seriously!!??!! Did he specifically say Democrats?
I’m not sure what we’ve ended up with…other than a knotted chain.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 28th, 2012
7:12 pm
Just as an aside, how’s Obozo doing on that whole post-partisan thing? Is he bringing us together yet?
@@
June 28th, 2012
7:27 pm
And know that when someone was still cleaning your sh*tty diapers, I was raising my right hand to defend this country against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
7:32 pm
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Schnirt. (Or is it schnort?)
@@
June 28th, 2012
7:39 pm
AmVet:
A bit of originality would do wonders for your posts.
Your redundancy fails to elicit anything other than
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
md
June 28th, 2012
7:40 pm
“I’ve asked this before and every conservative on here ignored it, including Kyle. If that is true, then isn’t it also true Mitt Romney broke his anti-tax pledge he signed (yes, it’s in writing) when he signed RomneyCare into law?”
Possibly……you’d have to fill me in on what he said and when he said it…….and then there is most likely a big difference. That difference being that it is now being reported that the briefs filed with the SC by the Obama admin states it is a tax if that is what it needs to be for passage…….which is apparently where Roberts picked it up from………..
So instead of being truthful with the public that this is merely another giant entitlement program with one group of folks paying for the other, it was packaged as “insurance”……….
md
June 28th, 2012
7:48 pm
“They are not remotely concerned that wages for the huge majority of Americans have been stagnate/flat-lined for four straight decades!”
And our trade imbalance is still 50 billion each and every month……….how’s that Infiniti working out for ya?
Statistics show the direct link between trade imbalance and real wages yet the masses (and some posters) continue to look the other way and do nothing to change their buying habits………conscience choices to mix purchases and lower that imbalance may go a long way toward raising those wages, but if folks continue to prefer to pay some guy on the other side of the planet less to make their goods, then our labor will forever decrease until it gets to the same level as the guy on the other side of the planet.
Its simple accounting……”cost of goods sold”……which just happens to include labor costs……..
saw this coming
June 28th, 2012
8:01 pm
Just tax and spend baby
Bruno
June 28th, 2012
8:06 pm
But there are other reasons it may hurt him: The intensity of Obamacare opponents will ratchet back up — remember how fired-up people were during the townhall meetings of 2009? If they have any political acumen whatsoever, Republicans will remind voters over and over again that Democrats sold the law as one thing (not a tax) only to win in court by saying something else (it’s a tax). Expect to see clips like this one and this one in GOP ads early and often.
Kyle–We can only hope. Unfortunately, I believe that a majority of people in this country are now willing to trade their freedom for a little comfort, especially if they believe it will come at the expense of the “rich”. Any reasonable analysis of Obamacare show that costs will be going up, up, up. But good luck getting any Idiot Libs to understand that.
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
8:08 pm
Tiberius, @@, Rafe, md
We will disagree a lot, but at least you bring something to the table/
Lil Barry is a walking and talking point…………. a turd in a punch bowl
No substance. Not in depth willingness or ability to see and think beyond the talking points that he allows himself to be brainwashed with
As lost as some of the lefties he cries, moans and sulks about
Damn son, is that all you have
Really?
md
June 28th, 2012
8:11 pm
Bruno…..one has to be capable of a logic stream to understand the effects……my experience with many on the left (including myself many years ago) can’t get past the talking points…….
I can’t count the number of comments I’ve already seen that believe this bill requires everyone to buy insurance…….what they evidently don’t know is that is true unless one doesn’t have the money…..then they are required to buy it WITH SOMEONE ELSE’S MONEY……ours.
Bruno
June 28th, 2012
8:13 pm
Lil Barry is a walking and talking point…………. a turd in a punch bowl
No substance. Not in depth willingness or ability to see and think beyond the talking points that he allows himself to be brainwashed with
Love Me Some Reagan–Be rest assured that I don’t suffer “conservative” fools like Lil Barry any more than I suffer Idiot Libs. I hope Kyle is tolerant of a little blog swearing, cause Bruno is ready to bring it.
md
June 28th, 2012
8:17 pm
“Just wanted you all to know what a low-life Bookman is on a personal level.”
And why do you think I’m over here?
I refuse to lend credence to anyone that can’t acknowledge a fact when presented with one…..that person doing the writing over there has an agenda that will not allow for truth other than his perceived truth.
But, since we do choose everything we do, here I am………
Now if I can only make some headway with that stubborn poop on here that refuses to understand that our buying habits have a direct relationship with our own wages……….
Bruno
June 28th, 2012
8:17 pm
I can’t count the number of comments I’ve already seen that believe this bill requires everyone to buy insurance…….what they evidently don’t know is that is true unless one doesn’t have the money…..then they are required to buy it WITH SOMEONE ELSE’S MONEY……ours.
md–What is truly ironic about this bill is that the Idiot Libs somehow believe that it will solve the “free rider” problem. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence realizes that the “free riders” are now going to increase. Folks like me who choose to forgo insurance will now only have to pay a small fine, then jump on board the gravy train once a serious health problem develops.
The whole “free rider” argument was specious to begin with, since the vast majority of the folks without insurance now are either very young, very poor, or illegal aliens. None of the folks in those groups will be contributing to their own health care even after ObamaCare goes into effect.
Bruno
June 28th, 2012
8:25 pm
The real tragedy of the ACA is that it doesn’t solve, let alone deal with, the root causes of the high cost of health care in our country: (1) An increasingly unhealthy population (2) An over-reliance on drug and surgery (3) Out of control pricing. All this bill does is attempt to put a small band-aid on a gushing wound by attempting to spread the costs around. Laughably, it doesn’t even do that for the reasons I mentioned above.
I’ve been waiting months for this decision, and am extremely disappointed that Roberts sold out to totalitarianism, by which the government can now force you to purchase any product they want or fine you. I’m not usually one to invoke the “slippery slope” argument, but this one truly is slippery.
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
8:30 pm
And a bit of intellect would do wonders for yours obsessed one!
Hiya, Bruno.
Should we start cranking the tunes over here?
Grin.
Hillbilly D
June 28th, 2012
8:33 pm
In Georgia, for about 30 or 40 years (I forget exactly how long), it’s been illegal to drive and not have car insurance. Depending on whose figures you believe, the number of uninsured drivers in Georgia ranges from 15-30%. It’s been at that level for years. Of course to get a tag, you’re supposed to prove you have insurance, so a lot of them drive without a valid tag or a driver’s license. Just something to think about.
Don't Tread
June 28th, 2012
8:33 pm
Government taxing only as much as it needs, without prejudice??
Liberals will never go for that (and 0bamacare is a prime example). There’s just too many “evil rich” people around (except George Soros, celebrities, and football/basketball players, of course), and things just “aren’t fair”.
Fred ™
June 28th, 2012
8:36 pm
Fred ™ Your comment is awaiting moderation.
June 28th, 2012
8:35 pm
Bruno, you big dork. I decide to come back and post at Jay’s and YOU decide to blaze out……….
Just damn. Well I left you two songs over there lol. One when I thought maybe you were the victim of Jay’s fickle axe and another when he indicated you wanted to go out in a blaze of glory. Either way here they are……
(put in jail) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdXjm8pZMws
(and since maybe little Kyle can’t do more than one link and my post is “awaiting moderation” I guess I’ll post the other song in a different post…….
Bruno
June 28th, 2012
8:36 pm
Should we start cranking the tunes over here?
Fine by me, Jam.
Looks like I’ve already picked up a leg-humper. Some Lib Mystery Meat who doesn’t even have the courage to use his Bookman Blog name.
Fred ™
June 28th, 2012
8:37 pm
Second Song Brother Bruno; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=748IjOdrjwg
getalife
June 28th, 2012
8:38 pm
lil bar,
What are the rules?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
June 28th, 2012
8:39 pm
Well, there goes the neighborhood….
Fred ™
June 28th, 2012
8:45 pm
Bruno@ 8:38; I didn’t see what the whole thing was. I did a driveby and saw he had banned you. By then the “offending posts” had been pulled. I didn’t care. I was reminded that he pulled MY dedication to josef of Killer Queen (by Queen) which is why you hadn’t seen ME there for a while. The stupid just burned to much lol.
Well anyway, hope it all works out one way of the other. I don’t do Kyle to much. I find him as intellectually stimulating as I found Cynthia Tucker and frequent HIS blog as much as I did hers………… I came here today because someone (forget who) said you were here. Didn’t always aree with you or even like you all the time, but I always respected you. One last dedication lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m2xCIYS7IU
Bruno
June 28th, 2012
8:48 pm
Jamming to “Pyromania”, Fred.
No need to emulate the FNM music thread, but I hope Kyle is tolerant of some music dedications. I hope HD decides to join in as well.
Ted
June 28th, 2012
8:49 pm
I love how the SCOTUS ruling took the smiles off of all of the Republicans’ faces! You all are so full of anger and hate that you can’t see straight. What a pitiful, misguided, lot you right wingers are, constantly voting against your own interests, whether it’s the environment, jobs, etc. Poor white people have more in common with poor black people than they do with Mitt Romney. As a white, middle-class male, I have more in common with middle-class black people and President Obama. President Obama has my best interests at heart.
Bruno
June 28th, 2012
8:52 pm
Back at ya with some Def Lep, Fred:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUW5nyM1O5o&feature=related
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 28th, 2012
8:54 pm
President Obama has my best interests at heart.
———————
Sorry to hear that you’re unemployed. Obozo isn’t doing much about that, is he? As long as the EBT card keeps getting topped off, it’s all good though, am I right?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
June 28th, 2012
8:56 pm
When the one or two liberals capable of thought and reason start getting the word out, Roberts will no longer be the newfound progtoy that the slow witted minions think he is.
In fact he’ll probably supplant the Koch Bros as the boogeyman most capable of causing mass thumbsucking among them.
He shut the door forever on expansion of the Commerce Clause and labeled obozocare a tax, and the dhimmis couldn’t be more aroused.
Silly, aren’t they?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 28th, 2012
8:57 pm
As long as the EBT card keeps getting topped off, it’s all good though, am I right?
Yummmmmmmmm, more prom dresses.
For Bruno.......... come on back
June 28th, 2012
8:58 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwUMir_VuIQ
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
9:05 pm
I report
Spin it any way you have been programmed to spin it
This was an Obama victory……… Boehner was so solemn I thought he was at a funeral.
@@, Rafe, Tiberius have been attempting to hold it together but they are dumbfounded, but it is ok. This is the USA and we will persevere
KEEP HOPE ALIVE
kyle might even have a Holder column tomorrow to get you riled up………. need something to feed to the base
Hillbilly D
June 28th, 2012
9:06 pm
Bruno
I’m in and out. I spend a good deal of my blogging time on the baseball blogs, these days.
My take on this topic was at 1:19pm in the previous thread.
I know you’re dying to read it so I’ll repost it here (give me a change to edit my typos and brain farts)
This has got to be one of the more convoluted things, that I’ve heard in a long time. The mandate is unconstitutional but it is constitutional to be fined, oops taxed, for not complying with the mandate.
Some folks think they won here but the real winners are the insurance industry. They will have to cover everybody, in theory, so they’ll “have” to raise rates on everybody to cover insuring more “high risk” people. Since everybody now has to buy insurance, I expect, they’ll come out with a new low cost policy, which covers virtually nothing, that will cost slightly less than what the tax will cost, which will in effect be free money for the insurance company.
A side effect of this will be that more and more employers will curtail or drop coverage altogether, as costs continue to rise.
The Affordable Care Act, does absolutely nothing to control the rising cost of healthcare, which is where the real problem lies. It’s a boon to the insurance industry, who played folks like a cheap violin.
They had a chance to really do something about healthcare and they blew it. It’ll be many years before another chance rolls around and I don’t expect to live to see it.
I haven’t read any of the posts, so I don’t know if Bruno has been here or not but he and I have had the discussion before, that as long as you have a 3rd party payer, costs will continue to go up. That leaves two options, everybody shops and pays their own bills, which is probably okay for routine health maintenance type things but not serious injury/illness situations or you go with single payer.
Me, I’m for single payer but I don’t expect to ever live to see that. Those who think this will lead to single payer are kidding themselves, in my opinion.
If I was one of those people who likes to play the Wall Street casino, I’d be on the phone to my broker, investing in companies that sell health insurance. You’re likely to do well, which was the point all along.
And on another bent, I’m probably in the most minor of minorities but I never thought freedom of speech was intended to mean the freedom to lie, when you in fact knew you were telling a lie. I don’t think that’s what the Framers intended.
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
9:07 pm
“For now, at least, free speech is guaranteed by the 1st Amendment.”
Exactly, and not just yours
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
9:09 pm
“you were always a bit slow.”
When you say a bit slow, were you kicked out like Tiberius or come over to Kyle’s on your own?
Not one in the same
Fred ™
June 28th, 2012
9:09 pm
HillbillyD: While I’ve seen you on the baseball blog, I really appreciate you on Maureen’s blog. Of ALL the blogs we frequent, hers seems to be the one that actually does some good and effects some change.
They BOTH suck
June 28th, 2012
9:19 pm
Fred
Whats up? Havent seen you much and miss your commentary. Will mist Bruno and yourself if you don’t come back to jay’s place
Either way. Hope all is well
peace
Hillbilly D
June 28th, 2012
9:19 pm
Fred
My take on Maureen’s blog is that it is a good place for discussions. My views there tend to not be the norm but the one thing I think that blog needs is more laymen. There are a lot of teachers who post there, which is understandable, given the topic, and I feel it tends to get a bit too “inside” at times. I think everybody’s opinions need to be heard on education.
I did get moderated there the other day, though. On the thread about that bus monitor and how she was treated, my comment was that “they need their little butts busted”. Except I didn’t say butts.
Most of my baseball blogging isn’t done at AJC sites, although I do pop in there, occasionally.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 28th, 2012
9:22 pm
Sure wish the libtards’ “right to privacy” that protects their ability to murder the unborn could keep my health care private from Big Government.
Fred ™
June 28th, 2012
9:26 pm
HBD: Yeah I have to moderate my language at Maureens myself (been “corrected” there a time or two lol). i agree that they (we) need more laymen commenting but I also appreciate hearing what is going on from the inside as well. Loved your reply to the ‘Good Mother’ lol.
TBS: I’m kind of burnt out at Jay’s. When I got deleted on FNM for dedicating Killer Queen to josef I thought it was a bit silly. Especially since I had ‘dedicated” it to him several other times and we had both (me and josef) laughed about it.
I miss the interaction with folks, but not the vitriol.
Bruno
June 28th, 2012
9:26 pm
I haven’t read any of the posts, so I don’t know if Bruno has been here or not but he and I have had the discussion before, that as long as you have a 3rd party payer, costs will continue to go up. That leaves two options, everybody shops and pays their own bills, which is probably okay for routine health maintenance type things but not serious injury/illness situations or you go with single payer.
HD–The frustrating part about the whole affair is that the Libs think this is some kind of victory, when it’s lose-lose for all of us.
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
9:27 pm
Nice spin Barry
accept the enivatable, live with it
Live to fight another day, but know even the cons on this blog wouldn’t follow you into an ice cream shop if it was 120 outside
You are a weak walking and talking pt, you bring nothing else
Del
June 28th, 2012
9:28 pm
It seems as though Bruno may be bringing many of Jay’s bloggers to Kyle. Best wishes Bruno.
Bill Holland
June 28th, 2012
9:29 pm
Kyle, as usual I am comforted by the fact that you do not agree with the opinion of the Justices. If only we had someone with your wisdom and experience on the bench!!
Regards
getalife
June 28th, 2012
9:32 pm
Lots of melt downs today.
You still have billionaires united so you can thank roberts for that.
Unlimited legalized corruption.
You cons got to love that.
Chin up Americans.
Hillbilly D
June 28th, 2012
9:32 pm
Fred
As to my reply to the aforementioned person, normally I’m a peaceable sort but I think by now, everybody has figured out which one of my buttons will always draw a response, when pressed.
They BOTH suck
June 28th, 2012
9:32 pm
Bruno
Friends of mine I know from Columbus, but live in Harris Cty are in for the Joe B show.
Let me know. We are going to do this thing
Really?
June 28th, 2012
9:38 pm
People exempt from individual mandate: people on medicare or medicad, people eligible for VA care, illegal aliens, people whose religion prohibits medical care, American Indians, people who do not make enough to pay federal income tax, people who only have a three month lapse in insurance.
luckjoe
June 28th, 2012
9:38 pm
We hard working American taxpayers just got screwed.
Bruno
June 28th, 2012
9:40 pm
Let me know. We are going to do this thing
Alright, we’ll stay in touch through the Wingfield Blog. Don’t want to say much here, but I have a few connections here in town through my work, will see if I can get any kind of “in” for the Joe B show. Last year, we got a backstage invite for the Brad Paisley/Darius Rucker show.
Fred ™
June 28th, 2012
9:40 pm
Bruno
June 28th, 2012
9:26 pm
HD–The frustrating part about the whole affair is that the Libs think this is some kind of victory, when it’s lose-lose for all of us.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
The whole thing has always been a win-win, lose-lose kinda of thing. There are good parts and bad parts. The WORST part is that Nancy Pelosi had a bullet proof majority when she rammed this down our throats so the Republicans had no say so in it to weed out the lose-lose parts.
Anyway, like I said earlier, i came on to see what folks were saying about the decision and quickly lost my taste for it. Sorry about whatever it was that happened between you and Sooth. Can’t say I would tolerate too much someone calling my wife a ho so I know where you are coming from. Doubt I’ll see you much as neither of us go to Jay’s and I just don’t care that much for Kyle’s writing style.(Sorry Kyle, don’t take it personally), maybe I just liked Mr. Wooten too much lo, and have a hard time warming up to his “replacement.” Of course Wooten had about 60 years of experience on Kyle so it’s not really fair lol.
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
9:42 pm
We hard working American taxpayers just got screwed.
Hello?
That has been happening since the 1970s.
Did you miss all of that???
I cannot imagine how…
They BOTH suck
June 28th, 2012
9:46 pm
bruno
we”ll do
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 28th, 2012
9:47 pm
You are a weak walking and talking pt, you bring nothing else
——-
And yet compelling enough that you feel you must respond.
Bruno
June 28th, 2012
9:52 pm
One more Def Lep back at ya, Fred:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUzGpi0NxaY&feature=related
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 28th, 2012
9:57 pm
That has been happening since the 1970s.
Did you miss all of that???
———
Apparently. All I remember is working hard, being paid a fair wage, having great health insurance through my employer, and paying my taxes (and a good part of someone else’s).
Thanks for screwing it all up for the young people, Democrats. I’ve got mine though.
Michael
June 28th, 2012
9:59 pm
“If Obamacare is to be reversed, it will have to be done by elected officials acting on the will of the people.”
This is why I respect your work, Kyle. I disagree with a lot of your points, but you pointed out this conclusion that is why I don’t understand the anger over this. If you don’t want Congress to tax you, elect someone else. Congress can literally tell you to go to war, but taxation is a problem? Millions of us voted for Obama and wanted reform. Millions of us support it. If you disagree, do it at the ballot box.
You’re not always going to agree with the government. But we can all agree to keep electing our government every election day.
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
10:03 pm
Apparently.
I’m not terribly surprised.
http://tinyurl.com/847q6aj
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 28th, 2012
10:18 pm
Poor AmVet and his persecution complex. Like most Democrat slaves, he struggles to understand his own lack of success.
@@
June 28th, 2012
10:25 pm
LmsR:
@@, Rafe, Tiberius have been attempting to hold it together but they are dumbfounded, but it is ok.
WRONG! I’ve never commented on the constitutionality of the individual mandate. I actually believed it would be upheld. When the case was being argued, the tax/penalty discussion led me to that belief.
I’d like to think that Roberts is not strategically motivated, but I’m beginning to think he may very well be. I suspect he just gave Obamacare a rope with which to hang itself.
Only time will tell.
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
10:29 pm
Enter your comments here
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 28th, 2012
10:29 pm
@@, I don’t buy it. If Roberts wanted to correct the Obozocare disaster, he had only to vote against it.
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
10:31 pm
But, but, but my fav pundits on the radio, on Breitbart, on Fox and Drudge programmed me to think it was not constitutional
I was only regurgitating the bull$hit they fed me and I willingly ate
bwhahahahahaha
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
10:33 pm
cry little barry cry
you have nothing of substance……. you have the same talking points that led you to believe the law was not constitutional
How did that work for you?
hahahahaha
It is ok baby
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
10:34 pm
md
hope you are feeling ok this evening…
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
10:40 pm
“Plus, I think it would be cool to see my posts highlighted in gray.
——————————————-”
How arrogant and childish. Guess that is why he claimed he would spike the ball then ran like a biatch when things didn;t go his way
Bullet County
June 28th, 2012
10:52 pm
Kyle, how much did this failed attempt to block a Constitutionally valid policy cost the hard-working taxpayers?
getalife
June 28th, 2012
11:03 pm
roberts is trying to save face for the institution after billionaires united.
The con activists judges showed their true colors and it needed repair.
If you get tired of this con echo chamber with no debate, Jay’s blog is ready when you are.
@@
June 28th, 2012
11:34 pm
Soothsayer:
You’ll just have to go over there yourself.
Why would I do that when jay banned me too? PERMANENTLY, no less.
I’m out.
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
11:36 pm
banned for stupidity. unable to articulate without calling names and begging for attention
picture that
The Kid
June 28th, 2012
11:39 pm
Sean Hannity has a hair out of place. Myyy woorrd..
md
June 28th, 2012
11:39 pm
The more I read about it the more I’m beginning to see where Roberts was coming from.
First, he basically told Congress the commerce clause was not going to be used as an end all be all…..
Second, he let the American public (and the rest of the world) know that Obamacare was a giant tax and spend entitlement program…….
Third, he told that same public that if they didn’t like it they best show up on voting day and make sure it gets changed by them as he wasn’t going to do it……..
Now, the ball is in our court……time to decide and we are stuck with whatever we choose……
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
11:46 pm
md, after some soul-searching I was going to post pretty much what you just said.
The win today for America is that the Congress has now been limited as to how far they can try to use the Commerce Clause. Minor win, but I’ll take it. Would have been better if Roberts just canned the whole thing due to that, but I’ll take the fact that many of us were right about the Commerce Clause making this mandate un-Constitutional.
The push today was that Roberts’ ruling makes it easier to repeal this bill in Congress. This mandate, or any other part can now be removed with a simple majority in the Senate through reconciliation, because taxes and budgets do not apply to the filibuster rule. So there is work yet to be done.
The loss is that this disaster of a bill still stands.
However, the good news is that this ruling set the Tea Party and other conservatives on fire, and that is bad, bad news for Obama’s chances in November. after today
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
11:47 pm
Notice to Soothsayer: We don’t cotton to 9/11 truthers over here.
Expect a very, very rough reception over here.
Does not matter
June 28th, 2012
11:49 pm
Does not matter what YOU cotton to
THE AJC which is Kyle’s boss will determine if Sooth gets out of hand.
Not you Criberius
Does not matter
June 28th, 2012
11:50 pm
my bad
Tiberious
type
Soothsayer
June 28th, 2012
11:55 pm
“We don’t cotton to 9/11 truthers over here.
Expect a very, very rough reception over here.”
Well, this is supposed to be hush, hush, so I’m going to ask you not to repeat it to anyone but Kyle slipped me a double-sawbuck to come over here and shake things up a little bit.
Something about his post count falling below “minimums.” I didn’t really understand it, but I said, OK!
md
June 28th, 2012
11:55 pm
I’d have to disagree about minor win……..I’d classify halting the encroachment of the commerce clause as a major victory for the american public, had he allowed precedent to stand, it is possible it would have never been stopped. He drew the line in the sand for future courts to follow……
I am curious if there may be a push now from the House to kill the bill as tax bills are by rule not allowed to originate in the Senate…..this bill did. I’m guessing their are some much more brighter than me attorneys with their heads spinning right about now………..
yuzeyurbrane
June 28th, 2012
11:59 pm
Between this and your other article today, it looks like you may have broken your record on reader comments. Did you, Kyle?
Does not matter
June 29th, 2012
12:02 am
kyle
Hope you get a bonus
You hit the jack pot today
Intown
June 29th, 2012
12:02 am
I really do not understand why Republicans so fear Congressional power — so much so that they take delight in tearing down the commerce clause and the necessary and proper clause. The founders expected the legislative branch to the dominant branch, the most powerful. I really hope Obama gets reelected and gets to replace the 2 aging “liberals” and at least one of these conservative activist judges. I’m tired of the Federalist society nutjobs that are taking over the judiciary. they need to be stopped.
ld
June 29th, 2012
12:05 am
“one that gets government out of private individuals personal decisions” –
except for love, marriage, sex, women’s reproduction choices, of course.
Kyle, why not admit the truth:
The GOP is filled w/hypocrites that have no problem spending tax money as long as it provides profits for the military industrial complex or the croney’s and contributors of GOP members of Congress.
The GOPwants smaller, less intrusive government ONLYwhen it comes to money i$$ues regarding taxing of the wealthier among us.
The GOP secretly believes this is the best thing that could have happened because this decision benefits their favored few both in the short term and in the long term:
This luidcrious decision gives the GOP a springboard for election 2012;
The Roberts’ “tax” will have no affect on those wealthy that already buy insurance and will only serve to impose more tax the employee class–which is precisely what the GOP has wanted all along;
Now the GOP can begin dismanteling the regulations and restrictions on employers, insurers and health industry as well as protections and assistence for the “least” among us with the objective of leaving only the requirement to purchase an insurance product from a private owned for-mega-profit industry w/penalty for not doing so being enforced by government…
…creating huge disappointments w/ the Democrats for the employee -consumer class which will eventually present at the voting booth…and…
creating huge profits for the insurance industry and its moneyed investor class of owners.
Roberts will be condemned in order to keep the Democrats apathetic long enough to get as many Republicans elected as possible before the Democarats and the employee/consumer class that support them even recognize the threat.
Roberts is a Republican and a lot of other things — stupid is not one of them.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 29th, 2012
12:06 am
Does not matter, the conservative residents of this blog have chased far tougher bloggers than Soothsayer from Kyle’s blog – without any intervention from Kyle.
It just takes brutal truth and facts, and a merciless hounding of nonsensical posts.
If he continues the crap he posts over at Bookman’s he’ll be crying for a warm hug from them within a month.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 29th, 2012
12:09 am
“The founders expected the legislative branch to the dominant branch, the most powerful.”
You must have fallen asleep during the lecture on the “three co-equal branches of government” as envisioned by the Framers, didn’t you, Intown.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 29th, 2012
12:10 am
“and will only serve to impose more tax the employee class–which is precisely what the GOP has wanted all along; ”
Really, Id? Please provide the last tax increase bill the GOP sponsored and / or passed.
Does not matter
June 29th, 2012
12:12 am
Tiberius
Isn’t your statement coming from someone who was unable to conduct themselves and debate in an adult manner to the point he was banned from Bookman’s blog?
Were you a regular here at Kyle’s before being thumped for stupidity and ignorance?
You seem to be a honest man. Lets put the cards on the table
Soothsayer
June 29th, 2012
12:13 am
Oh! Tiberius! PLEASE don’t ya’ll be tough on me here on good ol’ Wingnut’s blog. Why, I just don’t know whatever I’ll do if you do.
Heck, usually, when I make an appearance here, everybody runs off like a bunch of roaches when you turn the lights on.
Oh, by the way, Kyle gave a “fin” for lunch to go with my double-sawbuck.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 29th, 2012
12:24 am
Soothsayer, when you make an appearance here, the rest of us are usually going to bed after a long day of working (not me, I’m retired).
You might not recognize the concept of working, but many people here actually do so to pay your way in society.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 29th, 2012
12:26 am
Does not matter, we have already been cautioned regarding treading on Bookman’s toes by our host.
Unlike some on here, I follow the rules, therefore you do not et to find out why I was banned from Bookman’s
Soothsayer
June 29th, 2012
12:36 am
Tiberius: I don’t give a flying rat’s rump roast why you were banned from Bookman’s blog.
Just the fact that you were banned tells me all I need to know.
I liked all those assumptions you made in your 12:24, none of which are true. But, what the heck, live delusional! All the rest of the Fright-Wing does!
Soothsayer
June 29th, 2012
12:38 am
Poor, poor, delusional Tiberius. You should know by now that insults have no effect on me whatsoever.
But, I wouldn’t want to deprive you. Insult away!
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 29th, 2012
12:47 am
I’ll adjust my initial prognosis and say that Soothsayer will go crying to Bookman’s within 3 weeks.
She’s already got her panties in a wad. . .
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 29th, 2012
12:50 am
And with that, I’ll say goodnight.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 29th, 2012
12:51 am
I don’t give a flying rat’s rump roast why you were banned from Bookman’s blog.
Melt-down + blog suicide.
Epic.
Obamacare | NewsTrendr
June 29th, 2012
1:13 am
[...] NewsThe ObamaCare ElectionWall Street JournalWashington Post (blog) -Globe and Mail -Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog)all 19,595 news [...]
gt_me
June 29th, 2012
1:57 am
Kyle – its very simple our tax code always penalizes people for not doing something. Case in point you have a home mortgage deduction if and only if you have a home mortgage – if you rent you are penalized (you don’t get the home mortgage deduction) which depending on your tax bracket could be a quite sizable penalty.
Flounder
June 29th, 2012
3:55 am
So as a small business owner (just me, actually) I will now have to report my income to determine my Health Insurance Premiums. The more I make, the higher my Premiums. What’s my incentive for making more money?
Redcoat
June 29th, 2012
5:53 am
Nothing is left to do but vote………but now is that just to continue a ruse that “the people” have power?……Why do I feel what’s the use of working and building my own life, when so many expect others to provide it for “free”. Politicians passing obamacare saying it wasn’t a tax, but now top court says it is, did they lie or do they just don’t know what they are doing?
Michael
June 29th, 2012
5:55 am
As far as I’m aware, there’s not a single industrialized country in the entire world that 1) has a form of universal health care and that also 2) has overall worse quality of health for its citizens than does the United States. The data are overwhelming: universal health care correlates with healthy people, and market-driven health care does not. The only way you can justify withholding universal, affordable health care is to affirm that your ideology is more inherently valuable than the actual quality of life that people really and truly live. This is the essence of conservatism: ideology precedes reality. That’s why your side is losing ground.
Redcoat
June 29th, 2012
6:01 am
gt…….difference is now it’s a tax on what you don’t do……..no choice, no freedom. Government can now tax you if you don’t buy OR rent…..or buy a certain car…….on and on and on………
Redcoat
June 29th, 2012
6:04 am
Micheal……….”animal farm” sound familiar to you?
Redcoat
June 29th, 2012
6:05 am
sorry……Michael*
Redcoat
June 29th, 2012
6:09 am
It’s down to those who want to run every aspect of others lives and those who want every aspect of their lives ran by someone else. These two groups have control now.
Aquagirl
June 29th, 2012
6:42 am
This is the essence of conservatism: ideology precedes reality. That’s why your side is losing ground.
I learned everything I need to know about Republicans on August 11th. That was the day of the debate where none of the candidates would accept $10 in tax cuts for $1 in tax increases.
If you can’t play well with others, you get sent home. The Bush-appointed conservative Chief Justice had to send the extremists home, if they don’t get the message after that move, they’re hopeless.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 29th, 2012
7:08 am
“That’s why your side is losing ground.”
Kinda forget the 2010 elections, Bubba?
Missed that report about Romney raking in $3.2 in less than a day after this ruling, Michael?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
June 29th, 2012
7:10 am
600 off topic personal comments from hair pulling, eye scratching liberal blog warriors damn sure is a broken record.
Congratulations, Kyle.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 29th, 2012
7:11 am
gt_me: if you rent you are penalized (you don’t get the home mortgage deduction)
——–
Of course you don’t get it–you’re not the owner.
Honestly, where does this parasite entitlement mentality come from? Oh, right, the Democrat party, public schools, and the liberal media.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
June 29th, 2012
7:13 am
Roberts’ majority opinion on the issue of the mandate is a painful but perhaps necessary reminder that we have a serious political problem in this country — that Americans must start electing the right members of Congress, not counting on judges to bail us out from bad decisions made by those we have elected. Roberts makes us look in the mirror, perhaps reminding voters that people get the government they deserve. Indeed, the Chief Justice put it in black and white in his opinion: “It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices.”
Roberts really did implement the death of liberalism by a thousand cuts and the dummycrats don’t even know they are bleeding.
Perfect.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 29th, 2012
7:21 am
“I learned everything I need to know about Republicans on August 11th. That was the day of the debate where none of the candidates would accept $10 in tax cuts for $1 in tax increases. ”
Then you learned NOTHING Aquagirl. Are you THAT irresponsible (and do you want your elected officials to be that irresponsible) to agree to a question of national importance that has no substance behind it? What cuts? What tax increases? Say – Romney, fr instance – raised his hand and said, “Yes, I would accept $10 in cuts to $1 in tax increases”. Come January 2013 (or perhaps January 2017 because there’s no way a Democrat-controlled House is coming back next year), Speaker Pelosi jams through another bill where they had to pass the bill in order to know what’s in it. It contains $10 in cuts to the military to $1 in tax increases to the wealthiest Americans. Knowing you, this probably isn’t a problem, but now, all President Romney has to listen to is how he once said he’d support this kind of bill, and all you’d do is sit around and call him a liar.
Bottom-line, statesmen don’t agree to policy brought up by a 7th place news reader.
“The Bush-appointed conservative Chief Justice had to send the extremists home”
You probably missed this in your “spiking the ball” euphoria, Aquagirl, but Roberts actually reigned in the extremists on the left with this ruling, in that he killed any unlimited use of the Commerce Clause to compel a citizen to be forced to buy something he / she doesn’t use. That his tax argument was a bit illogical, he rightly put the ball back in the political court, and now requires that politicians like Pelosi, Reid and Obama call a tax a tax and now have to stand in the light, rather than the shadows when they want to fund their next grand scheme.
Let me ask you a question. How many Democrats in the House and Senate would have voted for this bill if funding for it came from a tax on the middle and lower classes, rather than hiding behind the Commerce Clause and calling it a penalty?
Thomas Heyward Jr.
June 29th, 2012
7:30 am
I’m sure that the ORomney(John Kerry Jr.) GOP will repeal ObamaCare..as soon as they get around to abolishing the Department of Education, reigning in Washington spending, and what ever else they have been running on for the past 20 YEARS.
.
Sucker Tattoo..meet..forehead.
.
Its still not too late to vote for Ron Paul.
Jack
June 29th, 2012
7:34 am
The tax/penalty on the uninsured is supposed to be enforced by the IRS. If they are to do this, some changes will have to take place when filing a 1040. Not sure how IRS will enforce the law if the uninsured doesn’t have to file.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 29th, 2012
7:35 am
Thomas Heyward, Ron Paul has about as much chance of getting elected as you have of writing anything of substance.
Paulistas – Putting the “C” in Crazy.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 29th, 2012
7:37 am
Jack, why don’t they just do the easy thing they always do – make it a payroll deduction?
Oh, wait – that would be too visible, wouldn’t it Princess Pelosi?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 29th, 2012
7:47 am
I learned everything I need to know about Republicans on August 11th. That was the day of the debate where none of the candidates would accept $10 in tax cuts for $1 in tax increases.
———-
And Republicans learned in the 80s and 90s that Democrats can’t be trusted to deliver the spending cuts they promised in return for tax increases.
It’s the spending, stupid.
oh nosies
June 29th, 2012
7:53 am
Lots of Chicken Littles on here apoplexed over more people having access to affordable healthcare. Obama is evil, evil, evil……………..
Aquagirl
June 29th, 2012
8:01 am
Let me ask you a question. How many Democrats in the House and Senate would have voted for this bill if funding for it came from a tax on the middle and lower classes
Tib, frankly I thought you’d be off with the rest of the teanuts cleaning your tricorn hat and musket in preparation for the assault on Ft. Sumter. So I’ll humor you with a response: I don’t know, and I don’t care. I also don’t know or care how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
Hypothetical questions have a place…like in presidential debates, where voters are trying to suss out candidates’ ideology. I realize you’d like to talk about anything but Republican intransigence. But I’m not going to humor you that much.
The Republican party has failed to offer real world solutions. Uninsured people? Let ‘em die. Millions of illegals? Deport them all and build a magic fence. Record deficits? No new taxes ever. Some other country is lookin’ at us funny? Start a war. Climate change? It’s a conspiracy.
There is no future for a party unwilling to accept reality.
md
June 29th, 2012
8:03 am
“The founders expected the legislative branch to the dominant branch, the most powerful.”
As was mentioned earlier, you must have missed the part about “separate but equal”…..as for the commerce clause…..the founders actually gave that power to the States….their vision had the States running their own affairs with “help” from the fed where needed……..now, they serve their master.
oh nosies
June 29th, 2012
8:05 am
“As far as I’m aware, there’s not a single industrialized country in the entire world that 1) has a form of universal health care and that also 2) has overall worse quality of health for its citizens than does the United States. The data are overwhelming: universal health care correlates with healthy people, and market-driven health care does not.”
Not to mention all of these countries providing universal coverage are doing it at a fraction of the cost of the healthcare in the US. Market driven healthcare = bad outcomes, bad economics.
sirwinston
June 29th, 2012
8:10 am
There so many people who want this healthcare and those who do not! This is America….nothing is or will be perfect. Everyone might say that the President is out of line…but when you look at what has happen; as a potential patient, you pay for everyone else coverage because of your hospital bill; those who don’t have it. Doctors and specialist charges you an arm and a leg for your care. Even if those that don’t like it, I want healthcare for myself and family. Sickness can come upon us quickly and perhaps we don’t like what the courts have done but can you afford paying for your healthcare if you have to be placed in a hospital? Simplely put, Insurance Company takes your money over the years, use it, invest it to make big profits; Doctors make big bucks, Specialists also make big bucks because doctors refer you to them for particulars testing and that is an additinal charge or charges and you are left with a big exploting bills, for all of the services render to you. Insurance is good; but if you don’t have it, you don’t get the service you really need, life and death comes into the picture and that is the first thing they ask for do you have medical insurance? The bottom line is….money for the doctors and specialists that you see; insurance companies don’t want to pay for it; big bucks remain in their coffer while you now can’t afford to see a doctor or a specialist because you don’t have insurance. Don’t think the medical industry is mad, upset because they can’t make as much money as they were making and paying out very little while you foot the buck of your hospital bill. That is story you haven’ heard. But what you have heard is all of the negative about getting insurance. Don’t let these people pull you to one side, or say that healthcare should not be mandatory. It could be a family member who might need critical care and you have nothing to fall back on.
JDW
June 29th, 2012
8:10 am
@LBB…”ust as an aside, how’s Obozo doing on that whole post-partisan thing? Is he bringing us together yet?”
Doing a good job on the SCOTUS…Roberts with the majority twice in a row!
md
June 29th, 2012
8:11 am
“Lots of Chicken Littles on here apoplexed over more people having access to affordable healthcare.”
Affordable is highly debatable at this juncture…..most folks only look at the surface and don’t understand the costs…..if our large society of “wont’s” (much different than a “can’t”) gets any bigger, costs will do nothing but increase…..
Then there is that little matter of additional costs to each and every state to administer and maintain the program (no, it isn’t free)……what do you think those many millions every year is going to do to the budget of a state like GA that requires the budget to be balanced every year…….Hint, they’ve been cutting just about everything these days in an attempt to stay balanced, and now more millions to worry about…….
If it stays, give it a few years and get bakc to us…..I’ll wager folks will be screaming that GA is having to cut things like education and the not so bright folks here will be asking why…….
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 29th, 2012
8:16 am
“The Republican party has failed to offer real world solutions.”
You mean like the SEVEN bills that died in Democrat-controlled committees during the health care debates of 2009, Aquagirl?
“Uninsured people? Let ‘em die.”
Covered under Republican plans.
“Millions of illegals? Deport them all and build a magic fence.”
Secure the borders FIRST, then let’s talk about fixing the remaining problem.
“Record deficits? No new taxes ever.”
Cut REAL spending FIRST, and then we’ll talk about taxes.
“Some other country is lookin’ at us funny? Start a war.”
Your first point today.
“Climate change? It’s a conspiracy.”
Even Al Gore’s greatest climate change supporter/scientist stepped back from the edge and said the claims are overrated.
Don’t talk to me about reality, Aquagirl, until you enter the real world yourself. In spite of your DNC talking points, the REAL world doesn’t revolve around them.
md
June 29th, 2012
8:18 am
“Not to mention all of these countries providing universal coverage are doing it at a fraction of the cost of the healthcare in the US. Market driven healthcare = bad outcomes, bad economics.”
Then don’t forget to mention that those countries for the most part have no defense budget either…..they’ve been able to live off the back of your tax dollars while they bought healthcare…..and I blame that on our politicians.
Then, please don’t forget to mention that they pay much more in taxes….ALL of them, not just the “rich”. Of course you are about to find out about that increase in taxes as this gets rolled out…..your premiums are about to go up to cover that group that can not afford it on their own…..many due to their own choices……the thugs and drugies of the world sure do thank you (sucker)
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 29th, 2012
8:20 am
oh noises, you DO realize that health data is based largely on death rates, don’t you?
Of course you didn’t.
Death rates don’t directly apply to health care quality or availability.
md
June 29th, 2012
8:25 am
“Don’t talk to me about reality, Aquagirl, until you enter the real world yourself.”
Her reality appears to be on the dnc talking point website…….being able to put together a logical equation to completion is not her strong suit…….neither is doing the extra research prior to spouting off her drivel….
She must have missed the latest charts that indicate co2 emissions and higher temps DO NOT have a direct relationship……….
oh nosies
June 29th, 2012
8:30 am
“oh noises, you DO realize that health data is based largely on death rates, don’t you?”
Not meant as a factual statement. Also, nice side step of the FACT that other countries with universal coverage spent a fraction of what we spend on healthcare. What’s wrong with this picture?
Keep dreaming
June 29th, 2012
8:31 am
Not sure how having the Supreme Court saying your mandate is really just the largest tax increase in the history of the world, especially after you spent 3 years running around swearing to everyone it is NOT a tax increase, is a “clear policy victory.”
oh nosies
June 29th, 2012
8:32 am
“Then don’t forget to mention that those countries for the most part have no defense budget either…..they’ve been able to live off the back of your tax dollars while they bought healthcare…..and I blame that on our politicians.”
Pretty good argument for lowering our defence spending and investing in life instead of death.
Keep dreaming
June 29th, 2012
8:33 am
@oh noises,
Simple answer. Those other countries have a fraction of the population that we do and they do not have a revolving door policy on immigration like we do.
oh nosies
June 29th, 2012
8:38 am
“Simple answer. Those other countries have a fraction of the population that we do and they do not have a revolving door policy on immigration like we do.”
You didn’t just say that! Whatever makes you feel better. Those healthcare numbers are percapita simpleton.
oh nosies
June 29th, 2012
8:45 am
“Then don’t forget to mention that those countries for the most part have no defense budget either…..they’ve been able to live off the back of your tax dollars while they bought healthcare…..and I blame that on our politicians.”
Hmmmmm, a fraction of what we spend on defense, a fraction of what we spend on healthcare while achieving universal coverage….. What’s right with this picture?
JDW
June 29th, 2012
8:46 am
@md…”Then don’t forget to mention that those countries for the most part have no defense budget either…..they’ve been able to live off the back of your tax dollars while they bought healthcare…..and I blame that on our politicians.”
Whil they spend far less on defense it is not relevant to health care. Looking at the number on a % of GDP basis quickly tells you that…n 2009 the US spent 17.4% of GDP on health care. In almost all of Europe it was around 11%, in the UK it was 9.8%, Japan was 8.5% and Canada was around 11%.
Bottom line they spend less on defense AND less on healthcare. They do spend far more on other social programs.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 29th, 2012
8:48 am
Maybe you can explain how paying the $95 fine gets someone health insurance and keeps them from being a free rider.
JDW couldn’t.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 29th, 2012
8:53 am
“Also, nice side step of the FACT that other countries with universal coverage spent a fraction of what we spend on healthcare. What’s wrong with this picture?”
No side step. I just don’t engage in apples to oranges comparisons, oh noises.
We have a much more litigious society, which requires doctors to run more and unnecessary tests to avoid malpractice suits to the tune of 30% of our total health care costs, and we have a more affluent society and greater standard of living than they do.
md
June 29th, 2012
8:59 am
“Pretty good argument for lowering our defence spending and investing in life instead of death.”
If that makes sense, then it would also make sense to not have as much insurance for something like say….healthcare?
Having a good defense is nothing more than insurance……we are better off having it and not needing it vs needing it and not having it……history is pretty clear that bad people do actually exist in the world.
md
June 29th, 2012
9:03 am
“Whil they spend far less on defense it is not relevant to health care. ”
Sure it is…….it’s all part of total cost……add in defense spending, and they either have to raise taxes even more or cut something else…….and in case you guys haven’t looked lately, they are not exactly the bastion of economic health at the moment……
Having it and being able to afford it are two entirely different concepts………..
JDW
June 29th, 2012
9:05 am
@Tiberuis..”We have a much more litigious society, which requires doctors to run more and unnecessary tests to avoid malpractice suits to the tune of 30% of our total health care costs, and we have a more affluent society and greater standard of living than they do.”
You are correct about us spending far too much on unnecessary tests and one of the benefits over time is that a single or large payer system can set standards to support those decisions leading to fewer tests. Tort reform can play a role but it has to be done in a way that protects the interest of those truly injured and having the ability to compare actions to a defined process is a good start.
Now to this part…”we have a more affluent society and greater standard of living than they do.”
Both correct which is what makes it so infuriating that we spend far more on health care for WORSE outcomes. When compared to Britain, Canada, Germany, Netherlands, Australia and New Zealand, all single payer, the US ranks DEAD LAST in quality of care despite spending enormous amounts more money.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/06/23/us-usa-healthcare-last-idUSTRE65M0SU20100623
Drudge
June 29th, 2012
9:07 am
So is this one less “war on XXX” now? It may take care of the “war on women” “war on middle class” and “war on healthcare” – so can you find some more wars on things before november? I think the “war on immigrants” is pretty good, but maybe you can fire up the “war on homosexuals” a but more, sprinkle in some “war on [race]” – just keep inventing wars on things until November, something is bound to resonate.
Whatever you do, don’t let the American people be distracted by the stalled economy, tensions with Russia and China, crisis in Syria, the collapse of the EU and demise of the Euro. Keep them focused on who can marry whom in North Carolina because based on the aforementioned, you are a total effing disaster.
JDW
June 29th, 2012
9:10 am
@LBB…”Maybe you can explain how paying the $95 fine gets someone health insurance and keeps them from being a free rider.”
Well first off someone needs to give you some basic reading and comprehension skills, as I told you yesterday the $95 number is wrong. Second off you must have missed the standard 5-year old selfish training…if a person is working in this country they deserve wages that can support a basic lifestyle including healthcare. Thats what this bill does give those people a chance.
If you choose to waste your life being upset that someone might get something you don’t think they deserve then that is a small life indeed.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 29th, 2012
9:15 am
The Eight Stages of Conservative Grief
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2012/06/republican_response_to_obamacare_decision_the_eight_stages_of_conservative_grief.html
md
June 29th, 2012
9:15 am
“If you choose to waste your life being upset that someone might get something you don’t think they deserve then that is a small life indeed.”
Some of us have been around awhile to understand that some actually choose to never rise above a certain station in life leaving it to others to carry the load…….which is part of the distinction between a ‘can’t” and a “won’t”.
We’ve also seen the outcome of enabling after many years and understand that enabling is the disease, not the cure.
You ever seen an alcoholic cured by giving him more alcohol??
md
June 29th, 2012
9:17 am
Forgot to mention above that the other gift Roberts gave to the non-supporters of this particular bill was the ability to overturn it with a simple majority…..he took the filibuster out of play.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 29th, 2012
9:25 am
some actually choose to never rise above a certain station in life leaving it to others to carry the load
get a life…or at least a hobby. Your hatred of the poor and those who don’t value the same exact things you do (work, providing, etc) is truly scary.
We can’t let you mean, angry, desperate people get control of anything else. Control women’s parts, control who we pray to, control which parts of history get put into our kids textbooks and which parts YOU want to leave out.
Conservatives are control freaks. FACT. Look at the way they make their politicians sign promises to toe the line as opposed to using their own judgment and values to determine how they should vote and do their jobs.
JDW
June 29th, 2012
9:28 am
@md…”Some of us have been around awhile to understand that some actually choose to never rise above a certain station in life leaving it to others to carry the load”
All the more reason not to spend any time anguishing over them and get on with YOUR life. Fact is the number of people need this sort of help is realtively low and the “load” you as an individual must carry is small. If you repurposed the time you spend worrying about it into productive activity your benefits would exceed the “load” in short order.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 29th, 2012
9:29 am
JDW: If you choose to waste your life being upset that someone might get something you don’t think they deserve then that is a small life indeed.
———
And yet, JDW has never donated to a charity that provides health care to the “less fortunate”. He prefers to let others (taxpayers) foot the bill.
Hypocrite.
JDW
June 29th, 2012
9:36 am
@LBB…”And yet, JDW has never donated to a charity that provides health care to the “less fortunate”. He prefers to let others (taxpayers) foot the bill.”
As usual you are a lying ba$tard…you are kind of like Romney, just making stuff up now.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/2012/06/07/romney_just_making_stuff_up_now_281863.html
JDW
June 29th, 2012
9:36 am
@LBB…”And yet, JDW has never donated to a charity that provides health care to the “less fortunate”. He prefers to let others (taxpayers) foot the bill.”
As usual you are a lying ba$tard…you are kind of like Romney, just making stuff up now.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/2012/06/07/romney_just_making_stuff_up_now_281863.html
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 29th, 2012
9:41 am
How much did you donate, Finn?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 29th, 2012
9:41 am
lil Barry knows EXACTLY who and when you make donations of time or money. What a guy!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 29th, 2012
9:43 am
Our family doesn’t exchange Xmas presents between adults. Only the kids get presents. We adults make donations to charities instead of giving gifts.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 29th, 2012
9:43 am
The hit dog barks.
Your greed and selfishness are disappointing, JDW
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 29th, 2012
9:45 am
How much to health care, Finn.
Are you a greedy hypocrite like JDW?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 29th, 2012
9:47 am
I give to charity so I’m a greedy hypocrite? Such a good upstanding Christian, that Lil barry.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 29th, 2012
9:48 am
I see the Cons are still reelin’ from yesterdays verdict. The foam at the mouth is still fresh.
This is how they are going to look after election day in November.
JDW
June 29th, 2012
9:58 am
@LBB…”Are you a greedy hypocrite like JDW?”
I am sure that will come a quite a shock to the charities I support with time and money. Frankly, LBB you are becoming tiresome. If you want to attempt to discuss an issue feel free. If you want to continue to act like a petulant 5 year old I will have to refrain from wasting time on you.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 29th, 2012
9:59 am
From Mother Jones:
10 ways Obama’s signature health care law will impact the healthy and sick, young and old, rich and poor. Here they are:
1) Insurance companies can no longer impose lifetime coverage limits on your insurance. Never again will you face the risk of getting really sick and then, a few months in, having your insurer tell you, “Sorry, you’ve ‘run out’ of coverage.” Almost everyone I’ve met knows someone who had insurance but got really, really sick (or had a kid get really sick) and ran into a lifetime cap.
2) If you don’t know someone who has run into a lifetime cap, you probably know someone who has run into an annual cap. The use of these will be sharply limited. (They’ll be eliminated entirely in 2014.)
3) Insurers can no longer tell kids with preexisting conditions that they’ll insure them “except for” the preexisting condition. That’s called preexisting condition exclusion, and it’s out the window.
4) A special, temporary program will help adults with preexisting conditions get coverage. It expires in 2014, when the health insurance exchanges—basically big “pools” of businesses and individuals—come on-line. That’s when all insurers will have to cover everyone, preexisting condition or not.
5) Insurance companies can’t drop you when you get sick, either—this plan means the end of “rescissions.”
6) You can stay on your parents’ insurance until you’re 26.
7) Seniors get $250 towards closing the “doughnut hole” in their prescription drug coverage. Currently, prescription drug coverage ends once you’ve spent $2,700 on drugs and it doesn’t kick in again until you’ve spent nearly $6,200. James Ridgeway wrote about the problems with the doughnut hole for Mother Jones in the September/October 2008 issue. Eventually, the health care reform bill will close the donut hole entirely. The AARP has more on immediate health care benefits for seniors. Next year (i.e., in nine months), 50 percent of the doughnut hole will be covered.
9) This is a big one: Small businesses get big tax credits—up to 50 percent of premium costs—for offering health insurance to their workers.
10) Insurers with unusually high administrative costs have to offer rebates to their customers, and every insurance company has to reveal how much it spends on overhead.
UPDATE: Here’s one more big benefit we’ve found out about since the ACA passed:
11) Free birth control and other preventative services for women, unless you work for a faith-based organization that opposes birth control.
Jefferson
June 29th, 2012
10:08 am
This has been law for years so now rather than planning for funding our great state leaders are STILL somehow are just hoping it will go away.
Years and all of a sudden the chief justice give the GOP a buzz word, they need to plan the funding and stop the politics, its LAW.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 29th, 2012
10:24 am
Finn McCool (The System isn’t Broken; It’s Fixed)
June 29th, 2012
9:59 am
———
And it’s all FREEEEEEEEE!
(well, if you’re a lazy parasite)
md
June 29th, 2012
10:26 am
“get a life…or at least a hobby. Your hatred of the poor and those who don’t value the same exact things you do (work, providing, etc) is truly scary.”
Sorry Finn……to me an enabler is much scarier…….short term help with disastrous long term effects.
You may think you are “helping”, but in reality you are actually making things much worse….the scary part is you know not what you do.
md
June 29th, 2012
10:30 am
“All the more reason not to spend any time anguishing over them and get on with YOUR life. Fact is the number of people need this sort of help is realtively low and the “load” you as an individual must carry is small. If you repurposed the time you spend worrying about it into productive activity your benefits would exceed the “load” in short order.”
All nice flowery rhetoric, but is nowhere near the reality……you are aware that the 1/3 that choocse to drop out of our taxpayer funded education system cost society up to 300 billion a year….right?
The truth of the matter is that there is selfishness all along the spectrum and only wishing to acknowledge one aspect of it is compounding the problem.
I have no problem helping anyone……but I have learned it must come with conditions or one tends to throw away good money after bad.
Scott Fresno
June 29th, 2012
10:33 am
“We got the idea from Newt,” said Romney. “And Newt got it from the Heritage Foundation.”
And the idea is a simple one: freeloaders cost the system billions and indirectly raise insurance for those who do the right thing.
Said the Mitt in 2009: “Using tax penalties, as we did, or tax credits, as others have proposed, encourages free riders to take responsibility for themselves rather than pass on their medical costs to others.”
tiredofIT
June 29th, 2012
10:35 am
Keep dreaming
Not sure how having the Supreme Court saying your mandate is really just the largest tax increase in the history of the world
—
The newest republican talking point.
md
June 29th, 2012
10:37 am
“All the more reason not to spend any time anguishing over them and get on with YOUR life.”
News flash……raising my taxes to cover benefits of another that chooses not to participate is part of MY life……if you prefer to help others that choose not to participate then by all means do so……but where do you get off requiring others to do the same??
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 29th, 2012
10:38 am
The CBO says Obozocare will cost a trillion more than Obozo promised–how is he paying for that?
Cue the chirping crickets…
md
June 29th, 2012
10:39 am
“And the idea is a simple one: freeloaders cost the system billions and indirectly raise insurance for those who do the right thing. ”
And this bill changes that how exactly??
tiredofIT
June 29th, 2012
10:40 am
“You ever seen an alcoholic cured by giving him more alcohol??”
Yes, they die!
md
June 29th, 2012
10:42 am
Nice long list there Finn……..you do know that the benifits are the easy part….right?
I can make a wish list a mile long of remedies for all that ailes society……but then the hard……somebody always has to pay for them……..
In case you haven’t noticed our debt stands around 16 trillion……….
And although the left likes to poo poo comparisons to Greece, they had no problem making their lists either……….
Scott Fresno
June 29th, 2012
10:46 am
md @10:39 am “And this bill changes that how exactly??”
Hmmm. Let’s ask Mitt: “Using tax penalties, as we did, or tax credits, as others have proposed, encourages free riders to take responsibility for themselves rather than pass on their medical costs to others.”
md
June 29th, 2012
10:46 am
“Yes, they die!”
So your solution is to knock off all the moochers?? That would work, but good luck getting that bill through Congress.
I’m an advocate for a discussion on euthanasia, but I doubt you will see that anytime soon either…..so when the time comes, I’ll have to take matters into my own hands.
I’ll be danged if I’m going to ever just “exist” and be a burden on my loved ones and society……after all, I’m apparently quite selfish……..
md
June 29th, 2012
10:51 am
“Hmmm. Let’s ask Mitt: “Using tax penalties, as we did, or tax credits, as others have proposed, encourages free riders to take responsibility for themselves rather than pass on their medical costs to others.””
That might be a good answer for a side chooser, but it doesn’t float with me…….Obama and Romney are both wrong on this one……all one has to do is look at the numbers coming out of MA…..visits to emergency rooms UP, costs of healthcare UP, coverage for all uninsured NO…..
Making the 3rd party provider (insurance) is not the answer to controlling costs………for the record, I’d prefer a non-profit system without the insurance companies.
SBinF
June 29th, 2012
10:51 am
“Do not confuse this for spin”
Then proceed to spin like a dreidel at Hanukkah.
I know it’s petty, but the last 24 hours have been absolutely hilarious, watching conservatives fall over themselves to explain this away.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 29th, 2012
10:55 am
And the idea is a simple one: freeloaders…And this bill changes that how exactly?
——-
By making the freeloaders pay a fine as low as $95 per year, and then continuing to freeload.
md
June 29th, 2012
10:55 am
And to clarify my answer, Romney WAS wrong in MA about the results…..now, he favors allowing each state to formulate their own solution…….which I think is a much better approach than cramming one party’s idea of utopia down the country’s throat.
md
June 29th, 2012
10:57 am
“I know it’s petty, but the last 24 hours have been absolutely hilarious, watching conservatives fall over themselves to explain this away.”
You might want to really study what Roberts did yesterday……it isn’t just a matter of saying one side “won”……he established a set of ground rules for both sides to play with, and if you get into it, neither side is a clear victor as best I can tell.
Jefferson
June 29th, 2012
10:59 am
What I see is GA lawmakers unprepared for the reality of LAW.
St Simons - we're on Island time, mon
June 29th, 2012
11:00 am
Remember cons – Somalia is ready when you are!
Its the last place including planet kolob using your model of ’success’
SBinF
June 29th, 2012
11:02 am
“You might want to really study what Roberts did yesterday……it isn’t just a matter of saying one side “won”……he established a set of ground rules for both sides to play with, and if you get into it, neither side is a clear victor as best I can tell.”
Yeah yeah, you sound like the rest of the Republicans, looking to place this in the rosiest light possible. I doubt you would be quite so reflective on this moment had Roberts sided with the other 4 justices.
Scott Fresno
June 29th, 2012
11:05 am
I don’t think Obamacare is most Democrats idea of utopia. It was not my first choice. My preference was a single payer option. But, that is not on the table at the moment. And it certainly would not be on the table if Georgia did its own state specific solution.
md
June 29th, 2012
11:05 am
“Yeah yeah, you sound like the rest of the Republicans, looking to place this in the rosiest light possible. I doubt you would be quite so reflective on this moment had Roberts sided with the other 4 justices.”
Obviously you have no interest in understanding the intricacies of the situation…..at your own peril.
But had he just gone along with the others, he would not have set the other parameters that he did.
As I said, the decision deals with much more than just this one bill……….
md
June 29th, 2012
11:08 am
“What I see is GA lawmakers unprepared for the reality of LAW.”
And what I see is GA supporters unprepared for the reality of the law……as GA is a balanced budget state, what will they now have to cut in order to account for the added cost of running and maintaining this new bill?
That is the question………
JDW
June 29th, 2012
11:08 am
@MD…”you are aware that the 1/3 that choocse to drop out of our taxpayer funded education system cost society up to 300 billion a year….right?”
You are mixing and matching costs with lost revenue. The actual COSTS from social programs, which is what we are discussing are…
“The authors also estimate that if all welfare recipients who were high school dropouts were high school graduates, welfare costs would fall some $1.8 billion.56 Public spending on health insurance is also estimated to be higher for dropouts. Peter Muennig estimates that over a lifetime, the discounted average public health insurance spending is $35,000 for school dropouts, compared with $27,000 for high school graduates.57″
http://www.princeton.edu/futureofchildren/publications/journals/article/index.xml?journalid=30&articleid=49§ionid=175
Net net your individual “cost” assuming 6.2 million dropouts and immediate funding of the insurance costs run about $150. Yeah it’s a nice dinner and it would be good to drive that down but its not worth constant worry.
It’s also worth noting that the best way to drive down the number is to keep them in school. If you abandon them once they are dropouts you end up having to spend extra to keep them in prison. So by your logic we should spend money keeping them in school and out of prison…things the Republicans don’t like to fund.
md
June 29th, 2012
11:11 am
“My preference was a single payer option. But, that is not on the table at the moment. And it certainly would not be on the table if Georgia did its own state specific solution.”
And there in lies the beauty of allowing the states to do their own……one can then make the choice of which one they prefer by simply moving to another state…..at least that option would exist.
Much like the young families that are bailing out of CA as the cost of living has gotten too high out there…….I bet they are thankful they have the option of moving as they are doing.
harry haff
June 29th, 2012
11:17 am
What’s the big snit with the Reactionary Party? This is THEIR healthcare program first put forth in the 90s to thwart a civilized system of single payer flavor. Add to that the fact that Etch-aSketch Romney put this plan in place as governor of MA. Clearly,the Reactionary Party supplied the plan. Obama just implemented it. Obama’s biggest blunder on this was in not holding out for a single payer system as in the rest of the industrialized world.
md
June 29th, 2012
11:18 am
“You are mixing and matching costs with lost revenue. The actual COSTS from social programs, which is what we are discussing are…”
One in the same actually…..not having it when one could is the same as one spending it…….
“If you abandon them once they are dropouts you end up having to spend extra to keep them in prison. So by your logic we should spend money keeping them in school and out of prison…things the Republicans don’t like to fund.”
That is where the “conditions” I referred to earlier come in…….actual help vs enabling. It makes no sense to provide an assistance program (education) that some choose to not participate in and then turn around and allow them to get in line for the next succession of assistance programs. If we want to actually help them vs enable them, there would be conditions of assistance in subsequent programs based on the choices they originally made.
If they chose to not participate and now choose to put their hand out for more assistance, then that assistance should be tied back to the first program. If they can choose to drop out of our opportunity programs, then they can certainly choose to drop back in…………..
SBinF
June 29th, 2012
11:23 am
“Obviously you have no interest in understanding the intricacies of the situation…..at your own peril.
But had he just gone along with the others, he would not have set the other parameters that he did.
As I said, the decision deals with much more than just this one bill……….”
That’s almost coherent. I must say, this is the most subdued I’ve ever seen you on the boards. Why not just admit this was a huge surprise and a pretty big unmitigated win for Obama. The Republicans are now stuck in the position of trying to dismantle a piece of legislation that has passed constitutional muster, and been supported by all three branches of government. And the congressional Republicans are operating under the premise that this will serve as a galvanizing force in the November elections. I thought it was the economy? Seems rather opportunistic, they just want to find the issue they think can beat Obama, not focus on actually solving the problems which plague this nation.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
June 29th, 2012
11:25 am
Freeloaders and Deadbeats.
YOU ARE ON NOTICE !!!
There is a new Sheriff in town.
Sheriff Obama !!!
Your days of milking the system and passing the costs on to others ARE OVER !!!
Imagine that… Everyone being responsible for their own healthcare.
NO MORE FREE RIDES DEADBEATS !!!!
Its time to pay up.
Uh Oh
June 29th, 2012
11:28 am
http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20090730/column30_st.art.htm
…Shortly after becoming governor, I worked in a bipartisan fashion with Democrats to insure all our citizens. It took almost two years to find a solution. When we did, it passed the 200-member legislature with only two dissenting votes…
…First, we established incentives for those who were uninsured to buy insurance. Using tax penalties, as we did, or tax credits, as others have proposed, encourages “free riders” to take responsibility for themselves rather than pass their medical costs on to others. This doesn’t cost the government a single dollar.
Gm
June 29th, 2012
11:31 am
Kyle, 8 years under Bush please tell me what health care bill he introduced? I’m still waiting”””””
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 29th, 2012
11:32 am
….which I think is a much better approach than cramming one party’s idea of utopia down the country’s throat.
I have found that those who complain the most about having something crammed down their throat are the same ones who will swallow anything.
Chafoxy
June 29th, 2012
11:33 am
“…no one fits that description better than Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal.”
A lot of people would disagree with that. Gov. Jindal showed himself to be a novice lightweight with that embarrassing response to the State of the Union speech he delivered a couple of years ago.
md
June 29th, 2012
11:34 am
SBinF ,
Except the ruling also changed the dynamics of the entire situation……now, the aca IS a tax and spend entitlement program…….and will be portrayed as such for the coming months.
Second, by clarifying that it is a tax bill, the bill can now be overturned in the future with a simple majority vote……the filibuster taken out of play.
Third……the commerce clause now has a precedent governing it for any and all future courts.
Fourth…..since the commerce clause has been neutered, all future bills of this nature will have to be passed as a “tax” bill……..and politicians don’t get re-elected too well when they raise taxes.
Quite a bit different than just passing the aca bill………..
And let’s not forget that the dems get to once again wear the placard of the “tax and spend” party, there is no way to deny that now……they are in their underwear on this one.
md
June 29th, 2012
11:36 am
“I have found that those who complain the most about having something crammed down their throat are the same ones who will swallow anything.”
Probably know that from experience…. huh?
Have anything of substance to add to the discussion or prefer the petty one liners??
Uh Oh
June 29th, 2012
11:37 am
md
As we get closer to the election, make sure you post the polls showing all of Obama’s lack of popularity via the electoral college projections and popular vote polls
Can’t wait…
How bout you?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 29th, 2012
11:38 am
Probably know that from experience…. huh?
The smoking gun is the mushroom cloud.
How’s that for a “petty one liner”?
md
June 29th, 2012
11:48 am
“How’s that for a “petty one liner”?”
If that’s what floats your boat….go for it.
getalife
June 29th, 2012
11:49 am
After Europe gets their act together after failed austerity, the economy is back on track.
Thank you President Obama for saving the global economic w collapse.
If w was a man, he would tell you cons to respect the President but he is not man enough.
md
June 29th, 2012
11:50 am
uh oh…..polls really mean next to nothing…..I believe many thought the SC would kill the aca too, right?
The only thing that will matter will be the results………
Halftrack
June 29th, 2012
11:52 am
This ruling is a landmine. How are the unemployed or even welfare receipients gonna buy insurance. They don’t have any money now. One can tax for failure to not have insurance but collection is going to be a massive job. The implementation of Obummercare is unsustainable. Death panels are back. What does the tax for not having insurance go for; if it was collectible from the poor and unemployed. If there are no Doctors available, etc. having a pre-existing condition and insurance coverage won’t matter much as far as saving lives. We now know Obama lied and Freedom died.
Hillbilly D
June 29th, 2012
11:53 am
Case in point you have a home mortgage deduction if and only if you have a home mortgage – if you rent you are penalized (you don’t get the home mortgage deduction) which depending on your tax bracket could be a quite sizable penalty.
I built my house over a period of years, paying as I went and doing nearly all the work myself. So I never got the deduction. Of course, I also only paid for the house once, rather than paying 2-4 times like you do if you take a “low interest” mortgage. The bankers sure have got people hoodwinked on home loans.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 29th, 2012
11:57 am
If that’s what floats your boat….go for it.
The smoking gun is the mushroom cloud definitely didn’t “float my boat” ……. but it’s painfully obvious that some people swallowed it …….. hook, line and sinker.
Just sayin’.
Vote justice Roberts out of the supreme court in Noveber
June 29th, 2012
12:00 pm
Time 2 take R counrty back form the libtards!
St Simons - we're on Island time, mon
June 29th, 2012
12:01 pm
the GOP secret gun-walking plan “Slow and Silly Us” is not getting
near as much attention. obvious conservative media bias
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 29th, 2012
12:02 pm
Vote justice Roberts out of the supreme court in Noveber[sic]
There’s your sign.
JD
June 29th, 2012
12:04 pm
Can anyone tell me what the GOP health care plan is for Romney’s “Repeal and Replace” promise? If they have nothing, say so and quit trying to fool people. I am neither an Obama supporter nor a Romney supporter, but something needs to be done about health care and nothing will be perfect with the people we have in office putting together a workable plan.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 29th, 2012
12:05 pm
Death panels are back.
Based on the false presupposition that they ever left.
We now know Obama lied and Freedom died.
Channeling Sarah Palin now, are we?
Tea Party Meber
June 29th, 2012
12:05 pm
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 29th, 2012
12:02 pm
Vote justice Roberts out of the supreme court in Noveber[sic]
There’s your sign.
Grate idea!!
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 29th, 2012
12:10 pm
Grate idea!!
The reign in Spain falls mainly on the plane.
Gm
June 29th, 2012
12:12 pm
Amazing, the right nut jobs were in office 8 years destroyed America, these scum Rush Limbaugh followers can not name one main achievement :
Please idiots of the right vote for Willard maybe he can send more of your jobs overseas, what a bunch of morons”””””””””’
Gm
June 29th, 2012
12:17 pm
Amazing how the hypocrites on the right loved the surpreme court when they ruled for Bush in 2000, now they are taking shots at the courts, what a bunch of disgraceful cry babby Americans””””””
a dad
June 29th, 2012
12:29 pm
Kyle – you colleague Jim galloway had it right, in that this was passed as a “tax” rather than under the ICC. Taxes only take 51 votes to repeal instead of the usual 60 for ICC. Pretty doggone smart by the CJ.
saywhat?
June 29th, 2012
12:36 pm
Now that the court has upheld the ACA, Americans will FINALLY be able to look at the ACA, after the 2012 elections,outside the fog of controversy, to see whats REALLY in it, rather than be bombarded with lies by those in opposition.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 29th, 2012
12:38 pm
Like an English lord unfettered from the Magna Carta, nobody had the authority to tell a Southern gentleman what to do with resources under his control. In this model, that’s what liberty is. If you don’t have the freedom to rape, beat, torture, kill, enslave, or exploit your underlings (including your wife and children) with impunity — or abuse the land, or enforce rules on others that you will never have to answer to yourself — then you can’t really call yourself a free man.
When a Southern conservative talks about “losing his liberty,” the loss of this absolute domination over the people and property under his control — and, worse, the loss of status and the resulting risk of being held accountable for laws that he was once exempt from — is what he’s really talking about. In this view, freedom is a zero-sum game. Anything that gives more freedom and rights to lower-status people can’t help but put serious limits on the freedom of the upper classes to use those people as they please. It cannot be any other way. So they find Yankee-style rights expansions absolutely intolerable, to the point where they’re willing to fight and die to preserve their divine right to rule.
http://www.alternet.org/visions/156071/conservative_southern_values_revived:_how_a_brutal_strain_of_american_aristocrats_have_come_to_rule_america_?page=2
md
June 29th, 2012
12:44 pm
aca….happy? – 26 year olds
Not so happy….their parents and 27 year olds………
Gm
June 29th, 2012
12:49 pm
8 years and counting when will we hear the rep health care plan? has any one heard Gordon Gekko (Willard) plan?
Gov. Jindal refuse to carry out Obama care, yet his state has millions who have no coverage, he no doubt will ask the Fed for more money to fund his state, along with Colorado to fight fires, this is the type of hypocrites that represent the retards on the right””””
independent thinker
June 29th, 2012
12:59 pm
“”"An estimated $1.3 billion will be doled out to individuals and small businesses under a clause in the Affordable Care Act,” according to Business Insider.
The Obamacare rebate checks are part of a provision in the health care law that requires insurance companies to use 80 percent of collected premiums on medical services. If they don’t, they have to send rebates to policyholders for the difference.
In other words, the profits of private insurance companies are limited by Obamacare, which is why Republicans beholden to insurance and drug company lobbyists have generated so much negative spin against the health insurance law.”"”"”
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2012/06/29/18716552.php
Yeah lets keep pushing that Repub. talking point that Obamacare raises everyone’s taxes (except the rich of course) while the checks role in around August and September. Kind of like the frat boy president giving free Medicare drugs to the elderly so he could get reelected. Only that one was not funded by any source.
md
June 29th, 2012
1:04 pm
“Yeah lets keep pushing that Repub. talking point that Obamacare raises everyone’s taxes (except the rich of course) while the checks role in around August and September.”
And as your premiums rise to account for the “credit”, just keep your eyes closed as to why………
md
June 29th, 2012
1:07 pm
For those that think they are getting a deal with the aca, simple question…Did your credit card rates go up after passage of the credit card bill?
Of course they did you silly people……somebody has to pay for the changes.
JDW
June 29th, 2012
1:16 pm
@MD…”And as your premiums rise to account for the “credit”, just keep your eyes closed as to why”
I think you are missing the point, the rates cannot be any higher than the 80/20 ratio. 80% of every dollar goes to care and 20% to everything else. The companies that are in the postion of rebating must lower thier rates to bring them in line.
JDW
June 29th, 2012
1:20 pm
@MD…I’ll say this for you, you are still here giving it your best…don’t see any of your normal compatriots or our host for that matter…did Kyle take the day off?
It’s a good one to sit by the pool have a beer and contemplate life…thank God for ipads!
md
June 29th, 2012
1:25 pm
JDW…not missing the point at all…..it’s like a circular firing squad……it’s the 80% that will forever change. And that is what the minions never seem to realize…..it’s a big circle with their wallet as the kitty. As long as folks get some back on the 20% end, they tend to forget about the 80% end……
So the circle is completed by the payer……sure, one got 20% back, but that 20% jsut comes from them in the first place…..the insurer will never be the one making up the difference.
hence my point about the credit card bill…….sure, the banks can no longer charge over a certain amount on their bad borrowers……which means they get the money from the good ones……which is why everybody’s rates went up when interest rates in general have been low.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 29th, 2012
1:27 pm
When do costs start coming down? Before or after the IPAB starts rationing health care?
My guess is “neither”.
Thanks, Democrats.
JDW
June 29th, 2012
1:30 pm
@MD…unless you know of some dynamic that is going to increase provider costs, you got it backwards. What will happen is the pool will increase further spreading the risk. The 80/20 rule will keep SG&A plus returns in check. While I don’t think the combination will result in a meaningful decrease, $1.8 billion in rebates on $700 billion in premium isn’t much, it will slow the rate of increase in rates somewhat.
md
June 29th, 2012
1:31 pm
JDW……some days I just have more time to waste than others…..plus I’m usually busy on other pages. It passes the time some days and I get a kick out of it. It helps stimulate whats left of my brain cells, those I didn’t kill during my experimentation days……..
And I do appreciate those such as yourself that can disagree without getting ugly about it.
md
June 29th, 2012
1:32 pm
“unless you know of some dynamic that is going to increase provider costs, you got it backwards.”
How about millions more users going to the doctor much more frequently because now they don’t have to worry about paying for anything…………
clanmack
June 29th, 2012
1:32 pm
RE: the Commerce Clause argument against the ACA: Fact-EVERYONE will need healthcare in their lives. To avoid bankruptcy from said healthcare, everyone will need insurance coverage. In today’s America, without the provisions of the ACA concerning pre-existing conditions and cancellation due to expensive, bankruptcy causing illness or injury, 40% of people applying for cannot get an individual policy today. It is not like broccoli-everyone doesn’t need to buy broccoli but everyone can buy broccoli. If you can’t get something you need that is essentially interstate commerce, then, given the economic trickle down dynamics, the Commerce Clause does cover healthcare. The requirement to cover everyone who applies focuses on the insurance companies. The mandate for the individual citizen to purchase or for companies to provide insurance to employees is a cost containment issue on something that is covered by the Commerce Clause. It is not hard to figure this out.
JDW
June 29th, 2012
1:33 pm
@md…”JDW……some days I just have more time to waste than others…..plus I’m usually busy on other pages. It passes the time some days and I get a kick out of it. It helps stimulate whats left of my brain cells, those I didn’t kill during my experimentation days……..
And I do appreciate those such as yourself that can disagree without getting ugly about it.”
Thanks, I do for the same reasons, though I think I do put too much time into it. I do try not to get ugly but there are some that can bring it out and I appreciate you not being one of them.
md
June 29th, 2012
1:35 pm
The same dynamic that raised our credit card rates…….since the penalty for irresponsibility has been reduced, the responsible ones must now pick up the difference as the irresponsible remain that way..
md
June 29th, 2012
1:40 pm
clanmack……no longer matters as the SC court says it is a tax and not commerce……
“It is not like broccoli-everyone doesn’t need to buy broccoli but everyone can buy broccoli. If you can’t get something you need that is essentially interstate commerce, then, given the economic trickle down dynamics, the Commerce Clause does cover healthcare.”
And actually, it is like broccoli since the SC ruled long ago that no one could be turned away from hospitals due to the inability to pay…….
But broccoli is just around the corner anyway……..I’ll ask again to anybody that thinks we aren’t already on that road…why the tax on cigarettes and tanning beds?
The Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers
June 29th, 2012
1:41 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 29th, 2012
10:55 am
And the idea is a simple one: freeloaders…And this bill changes that how exactly?
——-
By making the freeloaders pay a fine as low as $95 per year, and then continuing to freeload.
The payments escalate substantially in 2016, especially if you have a family to over 2000 bucks!
md
June 29th, 2012
1:41 pm
“I do try not to get ugly”
Like everything else we do, getting ugly is a choice………..
JDW
June 29th, 2012
1:41 pm
@md…”How about millions more users going to the doctor much more frequently because now they don’t have to worry about paying for anything…………”
Concievable but for now I think we have more supply than demand. However, were that to flip you could see some price pressure. The other thing I would hope to see is more consistant pricing from insurer to insurer. If you look at the actual bills it can be large. Medicare may pay $150 for a proceedure that Blue Cross pays $225 on and the doctor would charge you $400.
I actually just had one of those, a nasal endoscopy. The doc charged me $477, Blue Cross paid $240.81 and Medicare would have paid $138. Based on the proceedure I think Medicare would have overpaid.
David Granger
June 29th, 2012
1:43 pm
I have to admit, it does seem a bit strange…even by SCOTUS standards…to rule that the federal government cannot force us to participate in interestate commerce or else be subject to a fine, but it CAN force us to participate in interstate commerce or else be subject to a tax.
A couple of points:
Because it’s a “tax”…and because the White House has granted a lot of waivers to various groups and organizations…people can sue on the grounds of unequal treatment. Certain groups can be granted waivers from some types of taxes…but only with legislative approval. And none of the groups who have been granted waivers…unions, primarily…have had those waivers approved in accordance with tax law.
And since it’s a “tax” issue, then it only requires a majority vote in the Senate. So if the Republicans do manage to take back the senate, then a Democrat couldn’t block a revocation vote by filibuster.
md
June 29th, 2012
1:44 pm
“By making the freeloaders pay a fine as low as $95 per year, and then continuing to freeload.”
Actually, the bill provides subsidies for those making under a certain amount……so if one is a true freeloader, they are now on the gravy train and there is no penalty……….
JDW
June 29th, 2012
1:46 pm
@md…”so if one is a true freeloader, they are now on the gravy train and there is no penalty”
But its a cheaper gravy train for us…today all they have to do is walk in the Emergency Room…no cost.
md
June 29th, 2012
1:55 pm
“Concievable but for now I think we have more supply than demand. ”
You might want to look at the numbers coming out of MA now that their program has been in effect for awhile……just about everything went UP and they are struggling to get costs under control…..and we just did it on a much bigger scale…………
http://www.beaconhill.org/BHIStudies/HCR-2011/BHIMassHealthCareReform2011-0627.pdf
md
June 29th, 2012
2:00 pm
“But its a cheaper gravy train for us…today all they have to do is walk in the Emergency Room…no cost.”
I disagree……now that they have a shiny new card, and they like the convenience of the ER, they will use it more often with even more trips to the ER:
http://healthblog.ncpa.org/hospital-er-visits-up-since-mass-health-reform-enacted/
Ray
June 29th, 2012
2:02 pm
These red state governors who have decided not to implement the health care bill have the worst mortality rates in the nation and significantly so (see link below for the state ratings).
It should come as no surprise that those states which acted responsibly, and enacted health care bills on their own have amongst the best mortality ratings in the nation (Like Massachusetts, New York, Hawaii, California).
Kaiser publishes mortality rates per 100,000 residents, by state at: http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparemaptable.jsp?ind=58&cat=2
Look for yourself, but here at a few of the ratings per state: HI-590, CA-660, NY-676, MA-705; OK-931, NC-825, LA-922, KY-902, GA-831
Governor Deal doesn’t have to wait until the next election to do things to save lives in this state. It is immoral for him to sit on his hands to make political points, while Georgians needlessly die. It should be a crime.
md
June 29th, 2012
2:08 pm
JDW…..and if one would notice, after 5 years of passage, MA is in the process of passing legislation that puts spending limits in place……..I’ll say that again……spending limits.
Which means long term, somebody either takes a pay cut, loses a job or gets less care…..no other way to describe it.
Uh Oh
June 29th, 2012
2:08 pm
“And as your premiums rise to account for the “credit”, just keep your eyes closed as to why……”
As opposed to health-care costa and premiums over the last 30 years before Obamacare came into being, right?
Uh Oh
June 29th, 2012
2:11 pm
md
Maybe not yourself, but many on the right have spoken of doctors leaving in droves, etc.
Can you explain the fact that Mass currently have the best doctor / patient ratio in the US?
Can you explain why medical schools are seeing an increase in applications?
Those two things surely do not match some of the right wing talking points
JDW
June 29th, 2012
2:17 pm
@MD…
FactCheck.org doesn’t buy into that study. They say…
Claim: Massachusetts has done a great job covering the uninsured–True 98% coverage
Claim: The law “cost more.” –True but total cost was only 1.2% of the budget which was in line with expectations.
Claim: Premium costs increased. Mixed–For individuals costs have gone down. For small groups costs have gone by 1% to 1.5% and for large employers costs have gone up slightly faster than average US.
NOTE: the study was from 2011 and recent data shows the rate of increase in MA over the life of RomneyCare to be less than that in the US as a whole.
There’s more but net net the law seems to be working as advertised, though small business owners were hoping for more cost reductions.
JDW
June 29th, 2012
2:21 pm
@MD…”I disagree……now that they have a shiny new card, and they like the convenience of the ER, they will use it more often with even more trips to the ER:”
Maybe…if that is the trend then the law needs to be tweaked to allow ER’s to turn non-emergency cases away and route them to urgent care or local walk in facilities.
md
June 29th, 2012
2:24 pm
“As opposed to health-care costa and premiums over the last 30 years before Obamacare came into being, right?”
And the answer was to make the insurance companies bigger? Did we not learn our lesson on too big to fail??
As I said, I’d prefer a single payer but not through gov’t……I’d prefer a non-profit, gov’t doesn’t know how to manage waste when there are no ramifications for such….they run out of money they look at the tax payer as an endless supply.
a dad
June 29th, 2012
2:24 pm
This will be a double post, both here and in Bookman’s blog. While the debate over Obamacare will undoubtedly continue, and the talking heads, both informed and misinformed, will continue to spew vitriol at one another, what I found fascinating, and would direct everyone with a proclivity for, was that on page 190 of the 193-pg opinion (I swer federal judges must get a word-for-word bonus) was that is was completely obvious that the current “dissent” was, for at least some time unknown, the actual opinion before Roberts switched for whatever reason. For those libs who will undoubtedly deny this and chastise me, this is based on the fact that Scalia talks about Ginsberg in her “dissent,” and then you will see astericks and that’s when Scalia takes Roberts to task for jumping ship. The heck with the oris and cons of the law, I want to know what’s up in the backrooms of the SCOTUS such as to get John-boy to switch sides. Inquiring minds want to know.
Uh Oh
June 29th, 2012
2:28 pm
single payer would be great……. try to get that through a Repub majority House or Senate in any form
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
June 29th, 2012
2:32 pm
single payer would be great……. try to get that through a Repub majority House or Senate in any form
Obama wussed out and didn’t even try.
md
June 29th, 2012
2:34 pm
“single payer would be great……. try to get that through a Repub majority House or Senate in any form”
My non-profit single payer would be a dead end with both parties……not capitalistic enough for one side and not enough control for the other side…….so I won’t see it in my lifetime. But I know I don’t like the aca……folks can’t understand the darn doctor bills now with all the different rates and adjustments and we just up and made it bigger…….
JDW
June 29th, 2012
2:35 pm
@Ray…”Kaiser publishes mortality rates per 100,000 residents, by state at: ”
Now to really open their eyes, for the US HI is by far the best at 590 per 100K…the UK as a whole about 580.
The UK spent about 9.8% of GDP or just under $4K per person in the latest numbers…
The US 17.4% of GDP and about $8K per person…
We spent twice as much…FOR WORSE OUTCOMES
JDW
June 29th, 2012
2:36 pm
@md…”As I said, I’d prefer a single payer but not through gov’t……I’d prefer a non-profit”
Would you look at that we agree. I could go for that all day long.
md
June 29th, 2012
2:42 pm
“We spent twice as much…FOR WORSE OUTCOMES”
Apples to oranges…….the UK doesn’t allow for their citizenry to sue for malpractice of individual doctors either ( they basically have to file claims against the gov’t, as is the case with all National Health Plans) . Take that out on the cost side and we have a totally different set of numbers.
Somehow I doubt folks here would like the idea of not being able to sue at will………
Jefferson
June 29th, 2012
2:43 pm
Things have to be broken, before they can be fixed.
Jefferson
June 29th, 2012
2:44 pm
Enough with the crying, lets fish.
md
June 29th, 2012
2:45 pm
“Would you look at that we agree. I could go for that all day long.”
I bet a lot of folks would…..but then the monster in the room (gov’t) no longer represents the people, “they” wouldn’t like the idea of having to give up control……….power is a hard thing to let go of.
md
June 29th, 2012
2:48 pm
“Enough with the crying, lets fish.”
Only if they are biting……otherwise, I’d prefer to be in the water vs stare at it.
jose
June 29th, 2012
2:50 pm
This law will not increase access to healthcare. By beating up insurors and forcing americans to buy insurance, it will expand insurance coverage. But it does absolutley nothing about cost…obesity and tobacco-related illness are the biggest cost drivers and they continue unabated…and does not increase access…the nation is hundreds of thousands of health care professionals short of need today and that deficit increases by 2020. Just having an insurance card does not mean you have a doctor. In fact, demand, and therefore wait times, will grow so high that anyone with a spare dollar or two will have to consider joining a “concierge practice” and be willing to pay a higher fee upfront for guaranteed access. I am in the health care industry and ALL major health systems, including those in Atlanta, already plans in place ready to go.
DawgDad
June 29th, 2012
2:53 pm
“Fact-EVERYONE will need healthcare in their lives. To avoid bankruptcy from said healthcare, everyone will need insurance coverage.”
You should spend some time seriously contemplating HOW WE GOT HERE (i.e., how our forefathers managed to survive and raise future generations without Obamacare). To believe your solution is the ONLY solution is — quite arrogant and dismissive. It is very easy to forsee the severe negative impact a commerce clause ruling to uphold would have had on health care innovation, cost, access, and quality. The only difference now, really, is Federal Government can’t technically compel us to buy something at the point of a gun, but they can compel us at the point of a gun to pay a tax for not buying something. And yes, they can tax us for not eating brocolli.
DawgDad
June 29th, 2012
2:58 pm
jose: You’re on the right track. Health Care service is ultimately headed for the Black Market, like illegal drugs.
Ray
June 29th, 2012
3:03 pm
JDW,
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
June 29th, 2012
3:14 pm
Thanks, Democrats.
Your welcome.
Enjoy the better health, longer life span etc that all the other countries in the world with Universal Healthcare enjoy.
JustJimmyOnTheFive
June 29th, 2012
3:38 pm
“Enjoy the better health, longer life span etc that all the other countries in the world with Universal Healthcare enjoy.”
Now, see? You get a great joke today. Ask England, that worthless 1984 country how their ‘healthcare’ is doing. I see liberals NOT paying 98% income tax, and that’s simply not fair. Liberals should be able to live on 2% of what they earn.
Furious Styles
June 29th, 2012
3:54 pm
Looks like A LOT of people need to read the Constitution and UNDERSTAND it.
Just saying..
June 29th, 2012
4:05 pm
Count me among the many who’ve been surprised by the gracious response of those on the minority side of yesterday’s Supreme Court ruling…
saywhat?
June 29th, 2012
4:06 pm
My what a tasty appetizer this was for November, when the Republican wailing and gnashing of teeth will be even louder, and even more amusing.
Tom(Independent-Viet Vet-USAF)
June 29th, 2012
4:24 pm
Looks like all Democrats including Obama will now try to win elections in Nov with the albatross around their neck stating we support the largest TAX INCREASE in the history of this country!! This will be very interesting.
alligator loafers
June 29th, 2012
4:25 pm
Trojan horse that the uneducated do not understand. Medicaid restaints kill the expansion plans. 23 new taxes implemented in 2014 opens the door for further SCOTUS intervention. Message to voters is in the lower middle income tax increases right around the corner.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
June 29th, 2012
4:34 pm
By this time of the thread, kookman would have 13,678 comments and an average IQ of close to ZERO.
Which means Kyle is the winner!
md
June 29th, 2012
4:34 pm
Just so folks are clear what is NOT a tax (sarc)
“Summary of tax increases:
Broaden Medicare tax base for high-income taxpayers: $210.2 billion
Annual fee on health insurance providers: $60 billion
40% excise tax on health coverage in excess of $10,200/$27,500: $32 billion
Impose annual fee on manufacturers and importers of branded drugs: $27 billion
Impose 2.3% excise tax on manufacturers and importers of certain medical devices: $20 billion
Raise 7.5% Adjusted Gross Income floor on medical expenses deduction to 10%: $15.2 billion
Limit contributions to flexible spending arrangements in cafeteria plans to $2,500: $13 billion
All other revenue sources: $14.9 billion”
And hopefully folks know that any fee in the above summary is paid by them, NOT the entity collecting/paying the tax……..for example, that 60 billion fee on providers means YOU pay a higher premium.
Pizzaman
June 29th, 2012
4:51 pm
Sure looks like the market likes the Affordable Health Care Act!
Rightwing Troll
June 29th, 2012
4:58 pm
Please do expand on the “replace” portion of the wingnut “goal”… regale us all with the super dooper, double secret, competing plan that was so awesome they couldn’t tell us about it, that the wingnuts have had up their sleeve this whole time… It’s time for the big reveal… sock it to us baby, let’s have it, I’m ready and waiting to hear…
Uh Oh
June 29th, 2012
4:59 pm
“By this time of the thread, kookman would have 13,678 comments and an average IQ of close to ZERO.”
Yes because when you times one con or more that equals ZERO, .
I will make it easy for you get ZERO
Rightwing Troll
June 29th, 2012
5:00 pm
Wait… whaddya mean you don’t ACTUALLY have a plan in mind… because you were too busy preparing your end zone dance for when the ACA got struck down… I don’t understand… so, it’s just been repeal & ____ all along??!?
Rightwing Troll
June 29th, 2012
5:02 pm
Soooo I guess America is diddled yet again by the wingnuts…
captguitarman
June 29th, 2012
5:09 pm
Regarding the Constitution, it was a very good news – very bad news day, at first blush. Finally, the commerce clause, originally created to control economic squabbles between the states, but used time and again to expand central federal power as a national economy evolved, has been reigned in. The bad news is at the highest judicial and irreversable level, SCOTUS took it upon itself to create a tax where no tax was legislated.
No tax was legislated because the Dem/Libs knew that pinning Obamacare on a new tax (probably the biggest tax increase in our history) was a complete non-starter, and the bill would never get out of Congress alive. So, great pains were taken by the Congress and the Prez not to present this as a tax bill — and on the strenght of that, Obamacare was passed by a paper thin margin.
So, in addition to legislating a new tax from the bench (which would not pass constituitonal muster in a higher appeals court – if therer was one), the whol legislative – democratic process was subverted by the court. Why? Some say that Roberts is super sensitive to criticism of SCOTUS and did everything he could to find a way to uphold the law, wishing to avoid the bad mouthing SOTUS took after the 2002 election of George Bush. Who knows? If so, that is very disappointing, from the standpoint that politics, steadily eating away at SCOTUS since Warren/Burger courts, have now become paramount in SCOTUS decision making. Note here to Dem/Libs — I realize that in your specially enlightened an delusional world, that there were no political decisions made by courts with liberal majorities, and since Obamacare was upheld, this was not a poltical decision. Only the conservative judges “align” themselves while the liberal judges always independently seek truth justice and the American way with no ideological bias.
Pub/Cons knowing absolutely that the commerce clause could not be used to justify Obamacare, were justifiably very confident (especially since Nancy Pelosi was certain it would be upheld on that basis) that the court would kill it all, or remove the mandate and send it back to Congress to figure to find a way to make it work. No one expected the newly minted tax law curve ball from Roberts. The ultimate effect is actually bad news/bad news. The law is upheld even though it could not fly on the strength of the commerce clause, but the end effect is that it did. And worse, a chief justice of SCOTUS just created a tax law from the bench. I don’t know what Roberts was thinking when he weighed the effect that completely unconstitutional judicial action would have on the image of his court vs. over ruling Obamacare on the clearly supportable fact that the commerce clause does not support it — and then taking the heat from the Dem/Libs on a “political” decision. I do know that what he did was completely unconstitutional and a subversion of the legislative – politicla process, and can only hope the Pub/Cons can take the Presidency and Senate and amend or replace the law with something lawful.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
June 29th, 2012
5:18 pm
Yes because when you times one con or more that equals ZERO, .
I will make it easy for you get ZERO
Insanity does not work for me.
You’re gonna have to do better, just sayin…
md
June 29th, 2012
5:18 pm
cap….don’t be too hasty with that opinion…..the Obama admin actually filed it as a “tax” in their brief to the SC court, so Roberts didn’t just manufacture it…….but, as a tax it now may be overturned by congress with a simple majority……history pretty much shows we have a tendency to flip back and forth between parties as we tire of each, so I although this bill currently stands I would expect it to be repealed and replaced at some point in the future……Roberts left it up to the voters to make the ultimate decision.
Uh Oh
June 29th, 2012
5:24 pm
Keep crying I report
Heck, there are more cons at Bookman’s than you have cons and libs here……………
Wish Kyle would have put up some Holder info, you guys needed a pick me up after that sledge hammer came down yesterday
Are you one that was KICKED out because you loved to call names, etc or did you have you always blogged here more?
It is funny to read the posts of the one’s who were booted cry about Jay…….. the talk is big AFTER they were forced to walk
have a great weekend, you hear
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
June 29th, 2012
5:27 pm
blah, blah, blah, blah
please tax me more
June 29th, 2012
5:29 pm
Finn McCool (The System isn’t Broken; It’s Fixed) June 28th, 2012 4:28 pm
“…. Sick people would be expenses for insurance companies while healthy people would be income for insurance companies..”
Excellent, clear, concise analysis in plain language for all to understand how the insurance market works. Now it is time for a BMI Tax. Congress writes a law requiring everyone get their Body Mass Index measured. If your BMI is 50% over the guidelines already established by DHHS then you pay a fine. The obese have a known poor health history due to poor choices – diabetes, heart disease, and other negative consequences and this adds to the cost of the entire health system. So they should pay more. After all, President Obama is all about making things “fair” for everyone. If you fail to comply then the Federal Government will force you to purchase weight loss services. Per the SCOTUS ruling, Congress CAN force you to buy something or you have to pay a penalty.
Uh Oh
June 29th, 2012
5:29 pm
your non answer was better than if you came and and said it
bwhahahahahahaha
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
June 29th, 2012
5:31 pm
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
My goodness, where has all the intelligence gone?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
June 29th, 2012
5:38 pm
If Ginsburg’s side won the case, why is she so angry? Because on the central constitutional question at issue, Roberts in fact issued the legal left a powerful rebuke.
Even the ate up old hag freako understands what happened yesterday, while the bimbozo nation babbles on in “victory.”
Enjoy the misunderstood sanctimonioun before it squishes you, bimbettes.
Uh Oh
June 29th, 2012
5:44 pm
have a tissue or ten
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
June 29th, 2012
5:45 pm
The mandate is now a revenue provision. Therefore, it is germane and not subject to a Senate parliamentary point of order to strike it from a repeal bill. The Senate’s filibuster process that would require a supermajority of 60 Senate votes to approve repeal is now irrelevant.
No funding, duh.
We won.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
June 29th, 2012
5:49 pm
Stocks soaring, Holder not to be prosecuted, Obama’s poll numbers rising,
Obamacare now the law of the land for good.
You know what Fox news calls that ….
a slow news day.
Uh Oh
June 29th, 2012
5:53 pm
I report
Give it you and your spin to keep things positive
Many conservative commentators, writers and pundits were all boo hooing yesterday and today………. kicking the dog, make up curse words…….. yet you think the “right” or whomever has won something based on the Obamacare decision
seriously, go to REDSTATE.com, they have some articles that would be right up your alley in terms of how they view the decision……..
Funny to me, but it is about what you are thinking
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
June 29th, 2012
5:58 pm
Turd Blossom- I do not need pundits to think for me, like you do.
You’re welcome to write down all of what I say, although I’m sure you’ll need help with the spelling.
Check back with me in November and beyond, stooge.
md
June 29th, 2012
5:58 pm
“Holder not to be prosecuted”
I think you have some faulty info…..may want to re-visit that one.
Uh Oh
June 29th, 2012
5:59 pm
Boehner scheduled his Holder vote to coincide with what many thought was a slam-dunk to rule Obamacare unconstitutional……
Heck, Obama even went up in the polls from yesterday not down
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_romney_vs_obama-1171.html
The early 4th fireworks was going to have the right all giddy and jumping for joy……. even with the Holder vote best they could muster was firing off a few cap guns
Uh Oh
June 29th, 2012
6:01 pm
report
either way……. your wrong
Your opinion and right to say it, but wrong is still wrong
Uh Oh
June 29th, 2012
6:02 pm
name calling is usually a sign of concession
Thanks I report.
It was my pleasure. Don’t mention it.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
June 29th, 2012
6:03 pm
http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/29/politics/holder-contempt/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
md
June 29th, 2012
6:08 pm
Read that again……and notice it says “criminal”……which is why the House voted to allow for civil action…….it’s still likely he will be prosecuted.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
June 29th, 2012
6:16 pm
Name calling is a sign of frustration with the lack of intellect I’m dealing with.
It’s better than crying, which is what I want to do for America.
How did this country get so many bimbos, like you, uh-oh?
And what was it that convinced you your opinion was relevant, are you the Zimbabwe economic director or some such?
Uh Oh
June 29th, 2012
6:18 pm
I report. We all have opinions, it just that you are wrong on this issue. I’m sure you have been right on other things.
Opine all you like
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
June 29th, 2012
6:20 pm
House voted to allow for civil action…….it’s still likely he will be prosecuted.
Yeah Im sure he is real worried about a civil suit.
md
June 29th, 2012
6:41 pm
“Yeah Im sure he is real worried about a civil suit.”
He should be if he is hiding something, because perjury is also prosecutable…..
Uh Oh
June 29th, 2012
6:49 pm
md
The Holder deal for right or wrong is going nowhere
That political ploy has pretty much played out and sailed.
Time for a new attack ploy
And yes the Dems play the same games when they are in control of the House?
Wonder why Issa didn’t interview the head of the ATF or individuals who actually managed the daily operations of the program? He was in his right to call them to testify, you know?
Why wouldn’t you want to question those directly involved?
either way, the Repubs have gotten about all the steam they are going to get out of this issue
md
June 29th, 2012
7:02 pm
“That political ploy has pretty much played out and sailed. ”
Just heard Issa say today that they are rounding up their council for the case, so I’m not too sure where you guys think it is over……just because one might want it to be over is irrelevant.
Personally, I’ve heard too much that suggests a cover-up to believe it’s over as Executive privilege can not be used to protect a member of another agency if that agency is trying to hide something and the WH was not involved……and the WH maintains it was not involved, so EP is therefore not allowed. The only way EP would be allowed is if it is used to protect the President…..and he says he didn’t know.
So with that in mind and an election right around the corner, I doubt seriously it’s going away anytime soon……….I’m guessing you’ll be hearing the Nixon comparisons on the campaign trail…
dabir dalton
June 29th, 2012
8:41 pm
Kyle I still remember when republicans tried killing off social security by promoting private retirement accounts tied into the stock market. Of course that idea died with the collapse of both the stock market and the economy in 2008.
With the exception of rommy care {which mitt has now publicly repudiated} until Obama was elected there was no serious effort by republicans to reform health care and ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST in making health care available to everyone.
Based on the fact that the GOP has been bought lock stock and barrel by big business and the financial sector and serves their interest as opposed to serving the interests of Americans. If the GOP wins in November and repeals Obama care I personally do not believe that republicans will replace it with anything better unless it involves transferring even more of my hard earned money into the bank accounts of the insurance companies.
The simple fact that it was the GOP and conservative pundits who led the charge in creating the conditions that led to the collapse of the stock market and the economy in 2008. Along with the stonewalling by the GOP in congress that has prevented Obama from putting our economy back onto a firm foundation simply doesn’t inspire any trust in the GOP or conservative ideology.
Eric
June 29th, 2012
11:30 pm
Say whatever, but I will not comply. I refuse to be coerced to pay into a corrupt system. Unless the doctors, hospitals, and health insurance companies’ pay is capped, I will not pay into this.