Obamacare upheld — as the tax Obama promised us it wasn’t
UPDATE at 11:59 a.m.: The president is expected to comment on the ruling at 12:15 p.m. One wonders how his remarks will square with White House talking points from the Obamacare debate, such as:
What President Obama is proposing is not a tax, but a requirement to comply with the law.
and
People are required to obey the speed limit and have to pay a penalty if they get caught speeding? Does anyone consider that a tax?
and
People are required to have car insurance and can be fined if they are caught without it. Is that a tax?
In one of the court’s other decisions today, United States v. Alvarez, the justices upheld American’s First Amendment rights to lie about receiving military honors. In the Obamacare ruling, the majority upheld politicians’ First Amendment rights to lie about their policies. Not that anyone thought that kind of lying would ever stop.
UPDATE at 11:42 a.m.: At first blush, any cheers for the court’s declining to uphold Obamacare based on the Commerce Clause should not be too loud.
Writing for the majority, Roberts says, among other things:
People, for reasons of their own, often fail to do things that would be good for them or good for society. Those failures — joined with the similar failures of others — can readily have a substantial effect on interstate commerce. Under the Government’s logic, that authorizes Congress to use its commerce power to compel citizens to act as the Government would have them act. That is not the country the Framers of our Constitution envisioned.
Sounds pretty strong, huh? Maybe even strong enough to place a firm limit on congressional powers under the Commerce Clause?
Maybe so. My guess, however, is that Congress will simply rely less on its Commerce Clause powers in the future and resort to its taxing powers, because Roberts shortly makes clear that this limitation applies only to “police powers” — that is, Congress cannot criminalize inactivity.
Turning to Congress’ taxing powers, Roberts seems to undercut everything he wrote about regulating inactivity:
Under the mandate, if an individual does not maintain health insurance, the only consequence is that he must make an additional payment to the IRS when he pays his taxes. … That, according to the [Federal] Government, means the mandate can be regarded as establishing a condition — not owning health insurance — that triggers a tax — the required payment to the IRS. Under that theory, the mandate is not a legal command to buy insurance. Rather, it makes going without insurance just another thing the Government taxes, like buying gasoline or earning income. (emphasis added)
Viewed in the lens of taxation, then, inactivity is “just another thing,” like … wait for it … activity. So, everything Roberts wrote about Congress’ inability to regulate inactivity amounts to this: Congress can’t throw you in jail for not doing something, but it can take away your personal property for not doing something. This is hardly a comforting limitation.
UPDATE at 11:05 a.m.: The coalitions of justices on various parts of the ruling are a bit tricky to follow, but the bottom line is that Chief Justice John Roberts, appointed by President George W. Bush, voted to uphold the law in its entirety, while Justice Anthony Kennedy, a Reagan appointee and the supposed swing vote of the court, voted to throw it out in its entirety. So, while Kennedy had been seen as the one who would decide the law’s fate, he went right and the court went left. That’s one of many ways this precise ruling — not the broad outcome, but how a majority of justices reached it — is completely unexpected.
UPDATE at 10:55 a.m.: Finally have the ruling. It’s pretty clear why CNN blew it — and, oh, did they blow it, reporting first that the mandate was struck down. From page 2 of the summary:
CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS concluded in Part III–A that the individual mandate is not a valid exercise of Congress’s power under the Commerce Clause and the Necessary and Proper Clause.
But then you turn to page 3 …
CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS concluded in Part III–B that the individual mandate must be construed as imposing a tax on those who do not have health insurance, if such a construction is reasonable.
And page 4 …
CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS delivered the opinion of the Court with respect to Part III–C, concluding that the individual mandate may be upheld as within Congress’s power under the Taxing Clause.
So, it’s a tax. Which is exactly what the Obama administration said it wasn’t while it was trying to pass the bill, and then reversed itself and said it was once the law got to court. That distinction may also have implications for repealing the bill.
More to come.
ORIGINAL POST:
The Supreme Court has upheld Obamacare as constitutional; beyond that, I can’t say much yet. There have been so many contradictory reports — including about the size of the majority — that I’m not going to comment further until I’ve read the opinion myself.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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474 comments Add your comment
JDW
June 28th, 2012
10:32 am
As I said to Tiberuis last night progress is coming like it or not. We have another step in the right direction.
Junior Samples
June 28th, 2012
10:40 am
Mitt Romney will claim credit in 3, 2, 1…
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
10:42 am
Not so fast, JDW. Let’s look at the “be careful what you wish for” scenario.
1. How is this new “tax” going to be collected? In your paycheck? What are the ramifications of seeing a healthcare tax taking money out of your wallet each week / month?
2. What is this tax going to fund? Private insurance? Don’t think so. So the alternative is Medicare. What’s the problem with Medicare? Doctors aren’t accepting new patients because they don’t get paid for the procedures they do, and they don’t get paid quick enough. SO now you’re paying a tax for something you cannot use. How’s THAT going to go over with voters? I’m guessing not so well.
This is a huge loss for the American people, but a huge win for the campaign of Mitt Romney – if he thinks it through to it’s inevitable course.
I can see the media blitz even today: “Obama is responsible for the largest TAX INCREASE in the history of this nation . . . . while the average American is struggling to pay their bills . . . ”
Thank you, Chief Justice Roberts, for your incredible punting skills!
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
10:43 am
Yes, Thank you Chief Justice Roberts
Just saying..
June 28th, 2012
10:43 am
Thanks, Mitt. You came up with a Really great plan…
That's Goofy
June 28th, 2012
10:44 am
Activist judges!
All goofing aside – I have been surprised and disappointed by recent SC rulings. When Supreme Court Justices rule for country instead of party – The USA is a better place.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
10:45 am
Let the whining and temper tantrums begin…..
That's Goofy
June 28th, 2012
10:46 am
The dumbest argument against Obamacare: private insurance companies will lower rates of Obamacare is repealed.
DannyX
June 28th, 2012
10:46 am
Tiberius last night wrote…”Looks as if JDW has surrendered for the evening. I’m sure he’ll be willing to take more pounding tomorrow after the SCOTUS decision on Obamacare.”
LOL! Some pounding!
Tiberius gets yet another one wrong.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
10:46 am
And let’s add one more thing into the “Be careful what you wish for” scenario.
What employer is going to continue to pay for private health insurance when they can get away with just letting the government do it? MILLION of Americans will now be dropped from the coverage they like (by an 80% approval rate, btw), and forced to seek medical care from unfamiliar doctors and uncertain acceptance.
Thank you, Chief Justice Roberts!
Just saying..
June 28th, 2012
10:47 am
Tiberius – Banned from Bookman’s and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
10:42 am: “…but a huge win for the campaign of Mitt Romney”
Guess it is true…not that many people think like Tib…
Cutty
June 28th, 2012
10:47 am
‘This is a big f’n deal!’
BW
June 28th, 2012
10:48 am
There are literally many heads exploding right now!!!!
jconservative
June 28th, 2012
10:49 am
The law that makes refusal to pay the “tax” for non-purchase of insurance carries no criminal or civil
penalty for refusing to pay the “tax”.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
10:49 am
DannyX, he’s (and you) are going to take a pounding, because (unlike the two of you) I have thinking skills far beyond your capability and and ability to think past the initial reaction which is disappointing, and move to the larger issue of the electoral ramifications of this decision.
Roberts got it wrong, but he handed Mitt a HUGE campaign WIN!
southpaw
June 28th, 2012
10:50 am
Tiberius @10:42 -
The tax is projected to be collected by adding a line to the federal tax return. If you have health insurance, skip that line. If you don’t, add the tax. It would be about the same as additional income tax coming out of your paycheck during the year, or having to pay it by the usual April 15.
As for what it will fund, I’ll avoid answering for lack of so much as a clue…
BW
June 28th, 2012
10:50 am
Tiberius
I’m not sure that you gasp this completely….the private system will remain intact…they will manage the new high-risk pools…this was never about providing a public option or single payer….please at least cry about the right thing!
JF McNamara
June 28th, 2012
10:50 am
Now I wish the Republicans would do their job. The law is in place. Forget repealing it. Forget the anger about losing. Just work with the Democrats to make it better. In American government, the oppositions job is not simply to oppose. Its to fix problems. This problem is about 80% fixed. We could use your help on the other 20%
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
10:52 am
DannyX, step aside for Tiberius’ gigantic ego. It must be reinforced on these blogs every 2 minutes or so.
BW
June 28th, 2012
10:52 am
JF
Amen! I hope that the both parties will stop the zero-sum games and start making the hard decisions with the understanding that some spending will go down and some revenue aka taxes will go up.
markie mark
June 28th, 2012
10:52 am
man….Roberts is the closet liberal….who the hell knew?
Just saying..
June 28th, 2012
10:53 am
jconservative
June 28th, 2012
10:49 am: “The law that makes refusal to pay the “tax” for non-purchase of insurance carries no criminal or civil penalty for refusing to pay the “tax”.”
Grasping straws. If the law can be repealed, can you imagine it being amended?
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
10:54 am
“the private system will remain intact”
BW, it can’t remain intact. Employers will find it cheaper to drop private coverage and just let their employees get taxed by the government.
This will inadvertently become a de-facto public option, and will fail miserably when doctors no longer accept these new patients and drop their existing ones.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
10:54 am
JF is on the right tack.
SheezLouise
June 28th, 2012
10:55 am
About time Wingfield. I asked Jay to come retrieve you from the janitor’s closet. Just thought I’d come to the blog and thumb my nose at you guys and make the point that ONCE AGAIN, Obama continues to make his haters his B—–s! You will probably moderate me out, but for the few seconds it might stay..
Bye!!
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
10:55 am
Finn, you are always free to attempt to intelligently debunk my assertions at any time.
I’m just not going to hold my breath waiting for you to do so.
Mark
June 28th, 2012
10:55 am
WHERE IS td? I cannot wait to hear what he has to say now. LOL!
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
10:56 am
Where are all the bloggers who claimed Obamacare was unconstitutional?
Those right wing talk shows, blogs, website sure duped you people
Have a good day spinning away
Steve Dunbar
June 28th, 2012
10:57 am
Kyle, Going to have a hard time with this one aren’t you.
Maybe check Ezra Klein’s column in Tuesday’s ‘Washington Post’.
Remenber, the indiviidual mandate was a policy idea Republicans had thought of in the late 1980 and supported for two decades. Only after Obama was elected did it become a bad idea.
Etch a Sketch
June 28th, 2012
10:57 am
Mitt will say that he was for it before he was against it, but now that its been upheld, it was always Mitt’s idea.
Just saying..
June 28th, 2012
10:57 am
JF McNamara
June 28th, 2012
10:50 am: “Now I wish the Republicans would do their job. The law is in place. Forget repealing it. Forget the anger about losing. Just work with the Democrats to make it better. In American government, the oppositions job is not simply to oppose. Its to fix problems. This problem is about 80% fixed. We could use your help on the other 20%”
JF- The old Republican Party: No problem.
This current Masquerade Party: tantrums, name-calling, holding their breath…
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
10:58 am
Kyle
Nice article. The law will move forward. I doubt the current form will be intact in 12 months, however more of it will will remain than you ever thought it would
Uncle Billy
June 28th, 2012
10:59 am
A single payer reduces expenditure the most. This will have to do for the time being. And everything is only for the time being. But right now HALLELUJAH!!!!!!!!!!!
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
11:00 am
Styeve Dunbar, once again (and please pay attention this time), saying the individual mandate was a “Republican idea” is patently false.
That it was an idea of a few Republicans is true, but it was never adopted nor endorsed as a platform by the party, and was only submitted for consideration by less than a handful of Republicans.
You, and Ezra Klein, have it grossly wrong.
JDW
June 28th, 2012
11:01 am
@Tiberius…”Roberts got it wrong, but he handed Mitt a HUGE campaign WIN!”
The only thing Mitt is going to win is between 240 and 250 EV’s. Be happy with that. It’s as close as the current crop of Republicans will get. Now if we get some new ones in the mold of Eisenhower, Ford and Powell then the dynamic will shift.
BW
June 28th, 2012
11:02 am
Tiberius
Really??? No one will pay for healthcare in the private sector? I don’t remember the part about this being an employer mandate ala Nixon’s original plan. All the Dems ran as fast as they could away from the public option or single payer. I will agree that there is more tweaking to be done….there are too many people engaged in nilihism about this and that is not a solution to the problem.
jd
June 28th, 2012
11:02 am
There is not “tax” but a “penalty” if you do not have insurance. So, only lawbreakers will pay a penalty — any responsible person will have health insurance.
Old timer
June 28th, 2012
11:03 am
There are already 20 taxes in the healthcare law being collected….small ones, but taxes. I hope the republicans can get it together in congress and presidency this fall. The current president know know bounds.
HAHAHaHaHaHa
June 28th, 2012
11:03 am
VICTORY!!!!!!!!!!!! Ha Ha!!!!!!!!
Uncle Billy
June 28th, 2012
11:04 am
TIBERIUS–Please do hold your breath until Finn………………….
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 28th, 2012
11:06 am
If you wanted to see some energized voters come November, you got your wish.
BW
June 28th, 2012
11:06 am
jd
The collection mechanism will be quite interesting….this won’t be even started to be settled until after the election. Once they deal with the sequester this has to be the next priority followed closely by an overall tax code re-write….the only question is if Obama is still President and the House and Senate retain their current leadership configurations will one party go scorched earth or not.
JDW
June 28th, 2012
11:06 am
@Tiberius…”Styeve Dunbar, once again (and please pay attention this time), saying the individual mandate was a “Republican idea” is patently false.”
The Heritage Foundation, the American Enterprise Institute, Gingrich, Romney all Republicans all for the mandate. In fact the GOP was so fond of the idea that Sen. John H. Chaffee of Rhode Island and several other Republicans introduced legislation during the 1993-94 debate on the Clinton health care plan to require individual households to obtain coverage for acute and emergency care.
Thats a Republican idea backed by Republican legislation…any other conclusion is just a falsehood.
BW
June 28th, 2012
11:07 am
LBB
Please!!! If the opponents of the President aren’t already energized they are dead. Take it up with your boy, the Chief Justice.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
11:08 am
BW, have you ever run a business?
The FIRST THING you do after providing a good product is try to REDUCE COSTS.
If this remained a fine or penalty, the employer wasn’t in the picture. But now that it is a tax, and has to be administered as one (payroll deduction, perhaps?), employers will find it far more convenient to drop their private coverage TO SAVE MONEY.
Of course, I can’t wait to see the unemployment numbers rise exponentially as health insurance companies start laying off people left and right as a result of this decision.
Again, thank you Chief Justice Roberts!
JDW
June 28th, 2012
11:08 am
@LBB…”If you wanted to see some energized voters come November, you got your wish.”
Indeed you are right. The Presidency is safe for Obama, the Senate is safe for the Dems and after the fallout the House may be in play again.
Gm
June 28th, 2012
11:08 am
Obama resume
1. bin ladin done
2. Health care done
3. Dont ask dont tell done
4. Saved millions of jobs auto bail out, done
This President has done more for America then any President, thanks President Obama for caring for Americans”””””
BW
June 28th, 2012
11:09 am
Tiberius
I can’t talk to you while you’re like this….I’m going to give you some time to calm down
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
11:10 am
“There is not “tax” but a “penalty” if you do not have insurance. So, only lawbreakers will pay a penalty — any responsible person will have health insurance.”
jd, that’s pre-SCOTUS logic.
It is now a tax, according to Chief Justice Roberts. NOT a penalty.
Steve Dunbar
June 28th, 2012
11:10 am
JDW, thanks for your support.
hatorade drinker
June 28th, 2012
11:11 am
jawja obama haters, i have free 128 oz bottles of hatorade for you today so you can wash down that BBQ pulled (jim) crow sandwich with extra mayo and plenty of hot sauce. I hope yall don’t choke on that there.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
11:11 am
“I can’t talk to you while you’re like this”
BW-speak for “I have no intelligent argument to counter Tiberius’ logic.”
SheezLouise
June 28th, 2012
11:11 am
Glenn Beck’s head is exploding on air right now! Hilarious!!
JDW
June 28th, 2012
11:12 am
@Kyle…”That’s one of many ways this precise ruling — not the broad outcome, but how a majority of justices reached it — is completely unexpected.”
That is true. I felt the Immigration ruling gave a bit of insight as to Roberts thought process but Kennedy surprised me. I thought it would be 6-3 in favor. The taxes bit does not surprise me. I mentioned a long time ago that should the Commerce Clause not pass muster it was clearly a tax.
JDW
June 28th, 2012
11:14 am
@Tiberius…”“I have no intelligent argument to counter Tiberius’ logic.””
There no “intelligent argument” to counter insanity…personally I think you are delusional and should seek help.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
11:14 am
Thanks for proving my point, JDW.
You couldn’t name more than a handful of Republican elected officials who supported the mandate.
I appreciate your support.
reebok
June 28th, 2012
11:14 am
It was passed, it was upheld, it’s not going away. Time to move on to comprehensive immigration reform.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
11:15 am
JDW, as with Finn, you are at all times free to counter my arguments with an intelligent response of your own.
And again, I won’t hold my breath waiting for it.
reebok
June 28th, 2012
11:16 am
I may turn in to Fox ‘News’ today just to enjoy the tantrums. Also, I love the way CNN blew the story…a ‘Dewey Defeats Truman’ moment.
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
11:17 am
Tiberius
Spin all you like about the mandate. The Supreme Court said it was constitutional. THE LAW WILL STAND
Turn on Fox. They didn’t get the Oliely memo about “sping stopping here”
Earth is about to tilt off of its axis if they don’t stop spinning this
SheezLouise
June 28th, 2012
11:17 am
BECK instructs his listeners to “NOT WATCH TELEVISION” today!! LMAO!!
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
June 28th, 2012
11:18 am
I like that people are being forced to buy insurance.
Why should I have to pay for scumbag deadbeats who go to the emergency room to get treated and dont pay the bill ?
That cost gets passed on to me.
Well the days of the free ride are over Republicans.
Its time to buck up and pay your fair share.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
June 28th, 2012
11:19 am
You couldn’t name more than a handful of Republican elected officials who supported the mandate.
Exactly. Republicans on the wrong side of history again.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
11:19 am
I wonder how many swing votes (in a 5 vote majority) on the Democrat side of the House would have voted for this bill if the leadership had called the mandate a “tax”?
More importantly, ALL those remaining swing seats who survived 2010 in the House and Senate are going to get HAMMERED with the tax increase argument from now until November.
You libs may have won the battle, but the war began at 10:05 this morning.
jd
June 28th, 2012
11:21 am
Tiberius — you are part right — Roberts actually said “It may be read as imposing a tax on those who go without insurance.” (p. 3)
So, it is a tax on lawbreakers.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
11:21 am
Yeah, all the Republican free-riders , the “takers”, can now pay a little like the rest of us.
zebra
June 28th, 2012
11:21 am
So it turns out Mitt’s health care plan is constitutional and he is against it. Gotta love the wingnuts, they have the backbones and consistency of jellyfish.
Outsource your advisors Mittens, they ain’t working too well.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
11:22 am
“Why should I have to pay for scumbag deadbeats who go to the emergency room to get treated and dont pay the bill ?”
Cheesy Grits, for every person that does that, there are likely tens of thousands of people who never, ever see the inside of an emergency room.
We now get to support you as well.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
11:22 am
Tiberius, it’s constitutional, you lost, get over it.
Progressive Humanist
June 28th, 2012
11:22 am
Hilarious! I never thought the current Supreme Court would actually rule based on precedent and the law, and they’ve done so twice this week. It’s been a decade or so since they’ve ruled on anything other than political leanings.
And this at a time when Romney begins to lag in the polls, particularly in the swing states that will decide the election: http://www.electoral-vote.com/
Obama is up by 8-10 points in the battleground states. I predict that Romney has already seen his high water mark in this election.
And now with the Affordable Healthcare Act firmly in place Tiberius will be able to afford those pills he needs to stay “firm”.
Drudge
June 28th, 2012
11:22 am
GM – so he has done more for America than any other president? How about George Washington? FDR? Abraham Lincoln? He has done more for gays, minorities and union members – at the expense of the rest of us. Nothing he has done has benefited me personally.
It must feel good to be so ignorant that you can’t see the shoulders of the giants we have stood on for 236 years – and believe that 3.5 years of turmoil is the best there has ever been. This country is doomed as long as you have a vote.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
11:23 am
So it turns out Mitt’s health care plan is constitutional and he is against it
An instant classic!
SheezLouise
June 28th, 2012
11:23 am
OF course… THE MONEY GRAB NOW BY BECK!! lol DONATE, DONATE, DONATE!! what a scam!
td
June 28th, 2012
11:23 am
The bill was unconstitutional under the commerce clause. Obama told the American people over and over again that the individual mandate was not a TAX but 5 justices said said it was a tax and therefore was constitutional under the taxing ability of congress.
Here is a fact that I want to hear you libs spin. OBAMA lied to the American people and now has placed the largest tax increase in American history on the poor, working poor and middle class.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
11:25 am
Be careful on the drive home tonight. Should be a lot of drunk, po’d Young Republicans on the roads.
But of course their daddy’s will get them off if they run you over….
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
11:26 am
Finn, I realize it is Constitutional as a tax.
I’ve moved on every quickly to the electoral ramifications of this ruling.
Feel free to savor this victory. The long-term electoral glow for you isn’t going to materialize. Obama is now responsible for the biggest tax increase in the history of this nation, with the result that MILLIONS of people will be thrown off of their existing health care plans and dropped from their doctors (both of which he promised wouldn’t happen).
Deal with THAT, Finn!
Tiberious, Refute this
June 28th, 2012
11:26 am
The Loch Ness Monster, the Easter Bunny, Bigfoot and the Tooth fairy have taken over my living room with a high stakes poker game. Nessie is green with seaweed dripping from her mouth, the Easter bunny has a huge head, Bigfoot smells to high heaven, and the TF keeps looking at my teeth with a devious grin.
I know you don’t know me but I assert this to be the truth because I said so and it is completely true and logical.
My challenge to you: you are always free to attempt to intelligently debunk my assertions at any time.
I’m just not going to hold my breath waiting for you to do so.
Aquagirl
June 28th, 2012
11:27 am
OBAMA lied to the American people and now has placed the largest tax increase in American history on the poor, working poor and middle class.
I guess the “instant Romney election WIN!!!!11!!!” spin was not good enough for td. Bonus points for originality!
Jefferson
June 28th, 2012
11:28 am
Time now for the GOP to get their thumb out of their butt and work with the donkeys to improve the laws and give America something to be proud of.
DuceKeys
June 28th, 2012
11:28 am
Obama care has already saved my life
I was able to get a procedure removing a
Cancerous pollup
Under my Previous coverage I would not have been able to afford the screening and procedure and would have opted out
I would not have even known about the cancer and it could have taken my life within a few years
I have 3 small children
Republicans I know this means nothing to you
Obama 2012!!!!!!!
Terri
June 28th, 2012
11:28 am
Ignorance is Bliss. Time-will-tell… We’ll see who’s still rejoicing about this “TAX” as times goes by and the fall-out of this “Victory” as they call it un-folds. Guess we’re all gonna find out now aren’t we?
Filter
June 28th, 2012
11:28 am
Let me get this straight….
The President says this is not a tax. 5 members of the Court said it is a tax. So therefore the President lied?
That syllogism simply does not work.
Gm
June 28th, 2012
11:29 am
Drudge
Oh really maybe he should have let another attack like 911 wipe out you and your family, I guess that does not affect you? I guess the families who jobs were saved in Mich and other plants were all minorities.
This shows the idiot mentality of the extreme right.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
11:29 am
td, Obama didn’t lie.
He is just very unlucky that Chief Justice Roberts bought the tax argument. Lucky for his law, unlucky for his re-election campaign moving forward.
oh nosies
June 28th, 2012
11:30 am
obama said it wasn’t a tax, WAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whiners!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
11:31 am
Deal with THAT, Finn!
That’s all projection, Tiberius. Those are your mental nuggets, none of that has come to pass. You want me to seriously contemplate your wet dreams?
Let’s try to get a grip on reality first, k?
ncgreybr
June 28th, 2012
11:32 am
I’m still trying to figure out what Wingfield’s ramblings said….
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
11:32 am
Tiberius
Keep spinning. Hopefully it is a morale booster for you
whatever works, right?
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
11:32 am
Refute this has taken stupidity to a whole new level this morning.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
11:33 am
The President says this is not a tax. 5 members of the Court said it is a tax. So therefore the President lied?
W called it “strategery”, everyone else on the planet calls it “strategy” (including the justices of the SCOTUS.) W lied?
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
11:34 am
Reagan, as always, you are free to provide intelligent rebuttal to my assertions.
“Keep spinning” doesn’t qualify.
Gm
June 28th, 2012
11:34 am
Drudge
George Washington? FDR? Abraham Lincoln? we are really proud of these slave owners,
td
June 28th, 2012
11:35 am
Filter
June 28th, 2012
11:28 am
Let me get this straight….
The President says this is not a tax. 5 members of the Court said it is a tax. So therefore the President lied?
That syllogism simply does not work.
His attorneys argued it was a tax before the court and the court bought their argument so did Obama’s lawyers lie to the court or did Obama lie to the American people?
Terri
June 28th, 2012
11:36 am
I can still here him in his own voice: “I will NOT raise Taxes”. “THIS healthcare bill IS NOT A TAX”, “If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor”. “If you like your healthcare plan, you can keep your healthcare plan”. “This is not blue America or red America, this is the United States of America”, and one more among many, “Only hours until we will fundamentally change America”. So, what is it that they’re rejoicing about? Guess we’re going to find out now. The sad thing is that even if Obamacare hurts our healthcare system and worsens our economy, it won’t affect Barak Obama or the Democrats in office one bit. Won’t touch their pocketbooks or healthcare or lifestyle…
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
June 28th, 2012
11:36 am
We now get to support you as well.
You dont support me. I support myself.
I have my own health insurance. Always have.
( Although now thanks to Obama I may get some choice as to who my provider is. Instead of just having one choice. Competition usually drives down prices. )
I’m tired of paying for freeloaders who go to the Emergency Room every time they get a sniffle.
Those days are over deadbeats. Time to pay up like everybody else.
No more free rides.
Senior Citizen Kane
June 28th, 2012
11:36 am
Kyle, do you suppose that with this precedent a future president and Congress, in the name of public safety, could require that all Americans must own a gun – or pay a tax if they don’t?
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
11:37 am
As I said, spin all you like
Obamacare is law and is CONSTITUTIONAL…
When polls show that Romney is getting a great bounce from this and is heading to victory, you are more than welcome to post the information
Gm
June 28th, 2012
11:37 am
Mitt Willard” I will bring back jobs, oh I forgot, I helped sent them overseas, yet the right nut jobs call themself Americans”””’
retiredds
June 28th, 2012
11:38 am
td has given us all the new Republican mantra we will all be hearing from now to November. As if politicians don’t lie. TD that’s a politicians trademark (irrespective of party affiliation).
Oh and let’s not forget, the dastardly Chief Justice Roberts is now nothing more than one of those “activist” judges the R’s complain about.
Ray
June 28th, 2012
11:38 am
Those trashing Justice Warren today, are revealing their themselves. They don’t respect Congress nor the Supreme Court. Good luck trying to control the rest of America.
Just saying..
June 28th, 2012
11:39 am
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 28th, 2012
11:06 am: If you wanted to see some energized voters come November, you got your wish.
Lil Barry- We still count just the Number of voters in America; the wild-eyed ones get no extra cred.
Ray
June 28th, 2012
11:39 am
Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness is nothing without life!
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
11:39 am
td, Obama DIDN’T lie.
His House and Senate a$$-wipers thought they could get this though (politically) by using the Commerce Clause as a valid argument, thereby avoiding the “raising taxes” argument and associated fallout.
Once it was challenged, they saw their hope for keeping it in place slipping away under the Commerce Clause, so they merely changed tactics. They argued that the Court could uphold the law under BOTH, hedging their bets all the way.
No lie here.
Just political miscalculation in the long run.
Ray
June 28th, 2012
11:40 am
It should not come for free, so run a tab. Take my tax refund, but please don’t deny me life!
Tiberious, Refute this
June 28th, 2012
11:42 am
No actually you take stupidity and ignorance to a new level daily.
Not necessarily with the content of your comments but with your insistence that if you say it, it must be true, and it is incumbent upon the reader of your comments to debunk them. The problem is that your assertions are just that: assertions based in your own conception of reality. When you say millions of Americans are going to be dropped from their employers health plans you are engaging in nothing more than speculation. But you present it as fact and expect others to refute what you have in your mind.
For someone who talks constantly about logic you seem to be completely devoid of any.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
11:43 am
Reagan (and others), why are you afraid to debate me on the politics of this decision?
Obama care is Constitutional – got it.
Have you got anything else today as regards this campaign?
Or has this big, giant tax increase turd that just got tossed in your lap got you all flummoxed?
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
11:43 am
Ray, there is no Justice Warren on this court.
Get with the 21st Century, will ya?
Ray
June 28th, 2012
11:44 am
God bless those “who have theirs”, really! You deserve it, but don’t ask for my life, just because I might have fallen between the cracks, or upon hard times for a moment or time in my life. We have a lot more work to do, but just saying “screw you”, doesn’t have to be the American way. Let’s raise the value of life to more than the first few moments of life.. We don’t all have to be mean. Romney please show your passion for life.
Lee
June 28th, 2012
11:44 am
A tax is a fee imposed on a financial transaction using the transaction as a basis for colleting a portion of the revenue from the transaction. A fine is a fee imposed on an entity in consideration of an action of an entity without any tie to a financial transaction that would fund/support the fee.
Just because something is collected as part of a tax collection process does not make it a tax.
If you do not file taxes you are still liable for this fine. This effectively establishes a collection method associated with filing your taxes for an imposed fine.
Please feel free to clarify this if I am not understanding how this law is enacted.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
June 28th, 2012
11:45 am
No more free rides.
You wanna drive a car … You have to have insurance.
You wanna live in this country… You have to have health insurance.
No more passing along the costs to us honest folks.
NO MORE FREE RIDES !!!!
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
11:46 am
Refute this, I suggest you remain true to your moniker and actually refute my assertions with something other than “I disagree”.
Please provide something of intelligence and detail when trying to get past “I disagree”.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
11:48 am
Lee, your logic is impeccable, but Chief Justice Roberts disagrees with you.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
11:49 am
Next thing we mandate?
BROCCOLII!!!!!
and the CHEESY GRITS!!!! Buy them or pay a penalty!
Lee
June 28th, 2012
11:50 am
Ok, I must then be contented to know that Chief Justice Roberts is wrong but there is not much I can do about it.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
June 28th, 2012
11:50 am
Finally we have in this country what every other civilized country in the world has.
Universal Healthcare.
Its a proud day to be an American.
Reason
June 28th, 2012
11:50 am
I am amazed about how little the average citizen knows about health care in our country. We are currently paying for the care of our fell,ow citizens who cannot afford health insurance. We are also paying for th
Just saying..
June 28th, 2012
11:51 am
It seems Tib is going to be one of those energized voters this November.
One.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
11:51 am
Tiberius thinks we all have 24/7 free time to write up dissents to his uber-thoughts. Or that we even care a rats-patooety to refute his uber thoughts.
Man, there is something to be said for living in your mammas basement. Daddy paying your rent, paying for that internet connection. Lots of free time. Right, Tiberius? Living the dream, baby…living the dream!
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
11:52 am
From Yahoo News: Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid took to the Senate floor to declare that “passing the Affordable Care Act was the greatest single step in generations toward ensuring access to affordable, quality health care for every person in America, regardless of where they live, how much money they make.”
But, he acknowledged, “when we come back here after the elections, there may be some things we need to do to improve the law.”
Harry, more of you aren’t coming back there in 2013. Your majority just got significantly smaller.
iggy
June 28th, 2012
11:54 am
“Why should I have to pay for scumbag deadbeats who go to the emergency room to get treated and dont pay the bill ?”
Unfortunately, thats not how its going to work. For not paying for ones insurance the IRS has no rules on how to enforce the penalty.
This is no more than another govt freebie for the Obama camp of robots. Will undocumented workers showing up at the emergency room be turned away, due to lack of insurance? NO. Will the bums who currently refuse to get insurance now get it? NO.
This is a tax on the rich/well to do. Nore more no less.
Thanks SotoMayerMcCheese
Thanks Elan “The bearded lady” Kagan.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
11:54 am
Kyle mentions that CNN flubbed it. But no mention of his beloved Fox News flubbing it too?
Fox News made a similar call, flashing a graphic that the health care law’s individual mandate had been ruled unconstitutional. Widely called a Dewey defeats Truman moment, the errors were probably the highest profile tv news flub since Florida was called for Al Gore in 2000.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
11:55 am
“Tiberius thinks we all have 24/7 free time to write up dissents to his uber-thoughts.”
No, Finn. I just find it predictable that you have nothing but a “spike the ball” mentality this morning, and can’t think past that mentality.
Lee
June 28th, 2012
11:56 am
You say “every other civilized country” like it is a good thing. I have lived in other “civilized” countries and seen the private “clinics” outclass the hospitals because the “Universal Healthcare” was crap. Just because a “civilized country” has something does not automatically make it effective or good.
Jefferson
June 28th, 2012
11:58 am
The name calling is the funnies part, dang people show some dignity…
Road Scholar
June 28th, 2012
12:00 pm
Romney’s talking now. He said we would NOT be able to have our present insurance coverage. What BS! That it was a tax increase of $5B. The money goes to the private sector (esp since there is no single payer system …at the request of the Repubs), unless you decline to purchase. The law allows the setting up of health care market places to compare coverages and costs (something Ga punted down the line), which is one of Mitts desires.
Now, all you self taught “constitutionalists” Squeal like a pig! Oh and how do you like those apples!
Reason
June 28th, 2012
12:01 pm
We are also paying for the health care of those who cannot afford health insurance but are also paying for the healthcare of those citizens who can afford health insurance but behave in an irresponsible manner and spend their funds on other material things. When these two groups of citizens become ill or suffer injury we pay for their charity care through cost shifting by providers of healthcare which results in higher cost of services and higher premiums for the insured. We pay for healthcare through property taxes to fund local public clinics and hospitals. We pay for Medicaid through sales tax and income tax. We are the only civilized country in the wo
St Simons - we're on Island time, mon
June 28th, 2012
12:01 pm
mrsstsimons is offering free counseling for the rest of the week,
so there is no need to go all Eric Rudolph or McVeigh on us, cons.
jus sit right down- why do you feel like u dont belong in the 21st century?
heheh
Gm
June 28th, 2012
12:03 pm
President Obama I am sure the milliions of children who have cancer and families who have been layed off who have sick children and can not afford to get help,
Thank you.
Mark
June 28th, 2012
12:03 pm
td
June 28th, 2012
11:23 am
The bill was unconstitutional under the commerce clause. Obama told the American people over and over again that the individual mandate was not a TAX but 5 justices said said it was a tax and therefore was constitutional under the taxing ability of congress.
Here is a fact that I want to hear you libs spin. OBAMA lied to the American people and now has placed the largest tax increase in American history on the poor, working poor and middle class.
This is a beautiful day! Td I’m sure the Surpreme Courts decision to uphold the Health Care law you repubs call “ObamaCare” just makes your republican blood boil!
Great Day for America
OBAMA 2012!!!
Jimmy62
June 28th, 2012
12:05 pm
Pelosi did say we needed to pass it to find out what was in it. I guess that goes double for all the backers (Obama, Democrats, Pelosi herself, Jay Bookman, and most of the left) who told us it was not a tax. Boy were they wrong.
Sadly, most of the left will now be congratulating them for passing massive legislation they didn’t even understand.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
12:05 pm
“He (Romney) said we would NOT be able to have our present insurance coverage.”
You won’t. Employers will now drop private coverage to save expenses, Road.
“That it was a tax increase of $5B.”
Don’t know if the figure is correct, but the tax increase comment is 100% accurate. Good for Mitt!
“The money goes to the private sector (esp since there is no single payer system …at the request of the Repubs), unless you decline to purchase.”
What private sector, Road? Who is going to stay in the business of providing health care insurance if the “tax” doesn’t cover the cost of coverage?
You really haven’t thought this one through.
Gm
June 28th, 2012
12:06 pm
Hey 3 time college drop out Sean Hannity, you have brain washed your viewers so much, you have looked like a idiot against President Obama every time””’
Jimmy62
June 28th, 2012
12:06 pm
Finn: Perhaps he didn’t know because he was watching CNN, not Fox?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 28th, 2012
12:07 pm
Can any of you Obozocare supporters explain what the government now CANNOT require you to do (without paying a tax)?
Tiberious, Refute this
June 28th, 2012
12:08 pm
Let’s look, shall we at your assertion and opinion (note, it is not a fact) that this is a huge tax increase.
The numbers suggest that roughly 16% of the population does not have health insurance. http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/13/news/economy/census_bureau_health_insurance/index.htm
About 35% of that number have been denied coverage based on pre-existing conditions who will now be able to obtain coverage.
That leaves the other 65% or about 30 million people. Now the question turns to how many are uninsured by choice. That number is unknown and, unlike you, I’m unwilling to insert my opinion into this argument.
The bottom line is that, if you take the numbers as they sit now the tax for not having coverage can be applied only to that 10% of the population without coverage and I’m giving you the gift of assumption by accepting the fallacy all of the 10% are uninsured by choice and that the number won’t go down because I have no proof it will. Just as you have no proof for your imagined crisis of the health care apocalypse of millions being dropped by their employers.
Now when a tax only applies to 10% of the population AND the amount of that tax is unknown how can you claim the logical high ground in saying that it will be the largest tax increase in US history.
I’ll give you a hint. It’s your opinion db. It’s not a fact, it’s just one guys guess. You are entitled to that opinion and you are entitled to screech it at the top of lungs here.
What you are not entitled to do is assert that your opinion is fact and without “rebuttal” your facts stand unassailed. I mean you can, but no one of any decent intelligence is going to take you seriously.
Now I have to go. Nessie needs another drink.
Rafe Hollister, s avalancheuffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 28th, 2012
12:10 pm
I said here the other day that Roberts worried me. He has stated that he feared his court would be viewed as ideologically driven. I said that I feared Roberts would worry more about his legacy than doing what he believed was right. I think he proved that today, being viewed positively by history and the MSM in the short run, is what he is about.
I think Roberts moved ahead of Justice David Souter as a turncoat.
The court has left the future of America in the hands of the voters. Unless we elect Romney, and a GOP controlled congress, we are headed for bankruptcy, perpetual high unemployment, and a rapidly devaluing dollar. Time to look out for ourselves and start finding ways to protect our hard earned savings, and lessen the effect on each of us by the coming debt driven avalanche.
The power of the Federal Gov has been increased exponentially, with a Dem controlled congress and Oblamer, there is really nothing that they can’t tax into happening now. Sad day for America.
zebra
June 28th, 2012
12:11 pm
Just out of curiosity, how in the world can the right-wing prophets of imminent doom say this is the biggest tax increase in history without a clue as to how many people will not get insurance?
Short answer-they cannot.
Road Scholar
June 28th, 2012
12:11 pm
“He (Romney) said we would NOT be able to have our present insurance coverage.”
You won’t. Employers will now drop private coverage to save expenses, Road.
LIKE THEY ARE NOW? COVERAGES ARE BEING REDUCED, IF YOU CARE TO NOTICE AND SEE THE TREND THE PAST 20 YEARS!
“That it was a tax increase of $5B.”
Don’t know if the figure is correct, but the tax increase comment is 100% accurate. Good for Mitt!
“The money goes to the private sector (esp since there is no single payer system …at the request of the Repubs), unless you decline to purchase.”
What private sector, Road? Who is going to stay in the business of providing health care insurance if the “tax” doesn’t cover the cost of coverage? THAT IS WHY THE MARKET WILL ADJUST AND OFFER DIFFERENT PLANS AND COVERAGES AND COSTS, FROM A “YUGO” PLAN TO A “CADILLAC” PLAN
You really haven’t thought this one through. OH YES I HAVE! STOP WHINING. IT DOES NOT BECOME YOU. YOU ARE SMARTER THAN THAT! YOU LOST! GET OVER IT!
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
12:13 pm
LBB, this is where Robert’s logic gets a bit murky.
Given that a tax is supposed to be a percentage of the cost of a product or service, he’s making the (convoluted) case that since some people (but not all) will use emergency room services in their lifetime, that they now have to pay that “tax” in a pre-services kind of way.
Of course, he fails to realize that for every person that does use emergency services, there are tens of thousands who never will, thereby taxing them for something they will never use.
It is a curious brand of logic to be sure, and something wholly in line with the illogical “thinking” of the left.
md
June 28th, 2012
12:14 pm
In another be careful what you wish for moment, this bill does not account for the millions of dollars it will cost each state to operate and maintain this program………and the states are already cutting the basics such as education………hang on for the ride folks, this may get ugly.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 28th, 2012
12:14 pm
No, Road, freedom and liberty lost. That equates to a win for Obozo.
Sick.
And very, very sad.
We aren’t living in America any longer.
Rightwing Troll
June 28th, 2012
12:15 pm
Where’s Andy? This is no fun without Andy’s childish tirades..
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
12:16 pm
Refute this, you missed the point entirely.
This will not be limited to just that 10% you downplayed.
Most employers will now drop their private coverage, thereby exponentially increasing the taxes on their employees, and driving them to uncertain and unfamiliar coverage to boot.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
12:16 pm
gotta listen to hannity on the way home today. Meltdown all over the place. mwuahahahahaha
WAIT
June 28th, 2012
12:17 pm
It is a curious brand of logic to be sure, and something wholly in line with the illogical “thinking” of the left.
Hang on. Roberts is a liberal now?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
12:17 pm
Most employers will now drop their private coverage
When Tiberius begins a statement with “Most employers” you know the BS/dreams are about to follow.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
12:19 pm
Road, the private health insurance market will largely disappear, as they can no longer afford to cover people who are simply being “taxed”.
Unless that tax is fairly significant, which is the LAST thing Obama needs to have happen.
iggy
June 28th, 2012
12:19 pm
“If you cant afford the insurance premium you will recieve a credit that helps pay for it.”
Strait from the mouth of the grand poobah.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
12:20 pm
“Roberts is a liberal now?”
He certainly isn’t a conservative with this ruling, WAIT.
Tiberious, Refute this
June 28th, 2012
12:20 pm
No Tiberious, I certainly did not miss your point.
I am saying that you can speculate, predict, prognosticate and opine all day long that “Most employers will now drop their private coverage, thereby exponentially increasing the taxes on their employees, and driving them to uncertain and unfamiliar coverage to boot.”
But you cannot, under any definition of logic or intelligence, make that opinion, your opinion, a fact and then stand on that fact because no one has refuted it.
It is impossible to refute rank speculation and opinion.
Jeez. Are you really that vacuous?
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
12:21 pm
Aaaaand, still waiting for any intelligent response from Finn.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
June 28th, 2012
12:21 pm
“I am for people, individuals — exactly like automobile insurance — individuals having health insurance and being required to have health insurance,”
- Newt Gingrich
iggy
June 28th, 2012
12:21 pm
And here is a personal story of a cancer victim who, blah blah blah. The letter hangs on the wall of The kenyans office…*PUKE*
Tiberious, Refute this
June 28th, 2012
12:22 pm
“Road, the private health insurance market will largely disappear, as they can no longer afford to cover people who are simply being “taxed”.”
This too is opinion and not fact. You are entitled to it but it is not a fact. It’s a guess.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
June 28th, 2012
12:22 pm
“Personal responsibility extends to the purchase of health insurance. Citizens should not be able to cheat their neighbors by not buying insurance.”
- Newt Gingrich
Reason
June 28th, 2012
12:23 pm
How many of you naysayers .about a national healthcare strategy are going to reject your Medicare benefits. I know of no one who is not pleased with their Medicare benefits but you naysayers might want to trust the private health insurance companies to meet your healthcare needs as you become aged.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
12:23 pm
Refute this, I have never asserted that my opinion is a fact. That is your problem, not mine.
However, you have yet to come up with any counter arguments to mine, which proves that you are either incapable of doing so, or are simply too lazy to put your brain in gear today.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 28th, 2012
12:23 pm
Still waiting for the libs to explain what limits there are on this new taxing authority, wherein the government can tax inactivity.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
June 28th, 2012
12:24 pm
“I’m proud of what we’ve done. If Massachusetts succeeds in implementing it, then that will be a model for the nation.”
Mitt “Etch A Sketch” Romney
Ray
June 28th, 2012
12:24 pm
If companies do all they can for profit motive, don’t work for a company that does not provide health care insurance, if it doesn’t benefit you personally. Eventually, if a company wants the best of the best of hard working Americans, it will offer health care insurance. If it doesn’t, health care exchanges will be available, to cover you, even if you have a health care condition. Free at last! You will not have to work for a slave master, just because he offers health care insurance. You will be able to quit, because you can get health care insurance on your own, FINALLY. Have cancer and want to quit , you finally can. FREEDOM!!!
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
12:25 pm
Cheesy Grits, in case you missed it, Newt Gingrich is no longer an elected official in any capacity.
Is there a reason why you are going down this useless path?
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
June 28th, 2012
12:25 pm
“The great thing about the Canadian health care system is everyone is covered. ”
- Mitt “Etch A Sketch” Romney
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
12:26 pm
Ray, you have no concept of the word FREEDOM.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
June 28th, 2012
12:26 pm
“It’s a conservative idea,” says Romney, “insisting that individuals have responsibility for their own health care. I think it appeals to people on both sides of the aisle.”
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
June 28th, 2012
12:27 pm
I guess Roberts was intimidated by the executive branch after all.
Great country we live in.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
12:28 pm
Yeah, cheesy grits, don’t quote people who haven’t been approved by Tiberius. How dare you??
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
12:29 pm
OMG,the Romney has spoken! He agrees with the dissent! The clouds have opened! The seas are parting. Someone grew a pair!
ld
June 28th, 2012
12:29 pm
Mitt Romney just ended a news conference saying that Obamacare is wrong for the nation because it puts the federal government between people and their doctors.
And anti-abortion laws don’t?
Romney is such a hypocrite– as are much of the bible thumping GOP on this and other issues as to “big” or “small” government.
Tiberious, Refute this
June 28th, 2012
12:29 pm
Tiberious,
You really are deluded here. You consistently state your opinion and then challenge others to refute it as a fact. You do it every day and have done it numerous times today.
And acting like I haven’t come up with any counter arguments to you simply shows how you cannot accept an argument counter to yours being made when it is put in front of your face. See my 12:08 for an example. You don’t have to agree with the argument but pretending it doesn’t exist only works for children and the monsters under the bad.
You really are a vapid, vacuous, non-entity, aren’t you.
Tiberious, Refute this
June 28th, 2012
12:31 pm
bed, not bad
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
12:31 pm
You really are a vapid, vacuous, non-entity, aren’t you.
NEXT FACT……
Rightwing Troll
June 28th, 2012
12:32 pm
There’s Andy!!!
I’m underwhelmed though..
Jefferson
June 28th, 2012
12:33 pm
The door is open to bring America into the future, walk thru and be proud. Nothing is ever solved by crying, move forward.
ld
June 28th, 2012
12:35 pm
Romney also wants government between people’s sheets.
The GOP doesn’t want more taxes on those that could actually afford to pay more; but at least some are perfectly willing to increase taxes on those that cannot. Roberts has helped prove that.
Obamacare should have failed; that it did not does not make the GOP and more of the “conservative John Roberts ilk” on the Supreme Court the better option.
WE NEED A VIABLE THIRD ALTERNATIVE.
Reason
June 28th, 2012
12:37 pm
What happened to the concept of personal responsibility? I thought republicans even believed in personal responsibly at one time. We require people to have auto insurance to drive because it is a personal responsibility. Why should health insurance be any different? Why should people who can afford it not be required to buy it to cover their spouse and children. Why should I pay for healthcare costs for irresponsible people who can afford ihealth insurance but decide a new car would be a better buy
obama Sin laden
June 28th, 2012
12:38 pm
Thank you John Roberts. thank you,thank you, thank you. And you will be thanked again on 11/6/12.
ld
June 28th, 2012
12:38 pm
If this Obamacare penalty is a “tax” and you don’t pay your taxes, does this mean opening “debtor’s prisons” for all those that don’t pay the tax or the penalty?
Maybe we should all invest in the private prison industry as well as the insurance industry.
Will
June 28th, 2012
12:39 pm
Republican newspaper writters and tv/radio entertainers are a hoot!
Yesterday their mantra was that Governor Romney would be elected because of the economy.
Employment, taxes and spending would be the only thing that mattered. All other issues were just attempts by the liberal media to take the focus off of the economy.
Today? Governor Romney won the election the moment the Supremes upheld Obamacare. No….wait….the issue is the economy right?? No….well maybe….but no….we won by losing…just like we won by losing on three of four rulings by the Supremes on immigration….yes, we did say we would “spike the ball” over Obamacare being overturned but what that meant was that we “would spike the ball” over Obamacare not being overturned because…..we win on every issue either by winning the issue or losing the issue!!!…..just like gas prices….yes, we said the President would lose because of rising gas prices but we meant he would lose because he is secretly fixing gas prices so they go lower in order to be elected!!
I’ll give this for ole Newt. He told me if I voted for him gas would be $2.50 a gallon. I voted for him and it looks like he was telling the truth!!
obama Sin laden
June 28th, 2012
12:39 pm
ID : What we need is another revolution in the USA!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
12:39 pm
What happened to the concept of personal responsibility?
You asking for Republicans to take personal responsibility and spend their own money to keep their families healthy? My word!
Supreme Court says health mandate’s a tax – CNNMoney | Finance Bar - Daily Finance News Magazine
June 28th, 2012
12:39 pm
[...] updatesWashington Post (blog)Supreme Court upholds healthcare law as tax measureLos Angeles TimesAtlanta Journal Constitution (blog) -Boston Herald -ABC Newsall 11,608 news [...]
Brosephus
June 28th, 2012
12:40 pm
I think Roberts moved ahead of Justice David Souter as a turncoat.
???? I thought the SCOTUS was there to simply rule on the constitutionality of laws/cases that came before it based on the Constitution. I was unaware that there was some kind of ideological bias that was supposed to be part of the deal. That branch of government is supposed to be the least ideological and most factually driven branch of government. If we allow or expect any justice to be driven by ideology instead of jurisprudence, then we may as well scrap the country altogether.
ld
June 28th, 2012
12:44 pm
Watch the next steps for the GOP — and the Dems’ response.
Expect the GOP to immediately start clawing away at all regulations and restrictions for the insurance and health industries and employers that are in this law — especially not even mentioned in the Obamacare decision– and expect them to also work to rip out all employee and consumer protections. If they succeed, the only thing that will be left is the mandate and the tax on the employee class.
Roberts will be roundly condemned by this decision that seems designed to have both short term — aid the GOP win in 2012– and long term benefit — massive insurance company profits.
(expect that the unemployed and unemployable will either get a pass or go to debtors’ prisons)
iggy
June 28th, 2012
12:44 pm
“We require people to have auto insurance to drive because it is a personal responsibility.”
No it isnt. Its a State law.
This has already been explained hundreds of times. If you didnt get it then you wont get it now.
jconservative
June 28th, 2012
12:47 pm
Interesting opinion by the CJ,
On the Commerce Clause Roberts is saying that Congress has the constitutional authority to regulate commerce, but they clearly cannot “create” commerce.
And a warning to voters from the CJ on their responsibility to make informed decisions at the polls:
“It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices.”
And this is not the first case in which the CJ has been reluctant to override policies established by the duly elected representatives of the people. You can expect this philosophy of the CJ to turn cases in the future.
Rightwing Troll
June 28th, 2012
12:47 pm
You have to forgive the wingnuts, they’ve slowly become more and more unhinged as the economy improves and as gas prices fall… this just pushed them over the edge.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
12:48 pm
Well, today proves that GWB was pretty lousy at appointing a Chief Justice.
Hopefully, President Romney will reverse THAT appointment.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
12:49 pm
Expect the GOP to immediately start clawing
Glad they will get shot down in the Senate. Let em claw all they like…
Jefferson
June 28th, 2012
12:49 pm
Everyone knows Hillary will be the next justice appointed…
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
June 28th, 2012
12:51 pm
In the Obamacare ruling, the majority upheld politicians’ First Amendment rights to lie about their policies. Not that anyone thought that kind of lying would ever stop.
Jesus. Bitter much ?
Man you can really tell this one got them good.
What is strange is that whether its ultimately good for the country or not really isn’t the question.
It came from a Democrat Obama and so therefore it must be opposed. It must be evil.
Even though as demonstrated by the quotes when it was their idea a few years earlier it was perfectly fine.
The Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers
June 28th, 2012
12:51 pm
Fascinating. Given the proven fiscal mismanagement of government programs like social security, medicare and the post office, libs want their health choices and tax choices left to a bunch of half a$$ beaurocrats. They need to change coins for libs, instead of saying “In God We Trust” they should be reprinted to say “In Gov We Trust”.
Tea Party Meber
June 28th, 2012
12:51 pm
All taxes R penatlys. Especialy if those taxes help fund free abortons 2 women who shuold be at home cooking and cleaning.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
12:51 pm
Refute this, your 12:08 analyzed things as they are today, and doesn’t look at the changes this law will make to private employers.
Therefore, while it was an attempt to provide an intelligent argument, it was a failed attempt.
You cannot keep things the same way after a decision of this magnitude as you have tried to do. Today changed EVERYTHING, and you are apparently incapable of internalizing that and moving to the next logical progression.
stands for decibels
June 28th, 2012
12:52 pm
In the Obamacare ruling, the majority upheld politicians’ First Amendment rights to lie about their policies.
Someone isn’t taking this very well.
Jefferson
June 28th, 2012
12:52 pm
TBM, nothin’s free.
jconservative
June 28th, 2012
12:52 pm
As I have noted previously there is nothing in the law that allows the IRS to invoke a civil or criminal penalty on anyone who simple refuses to the the “no insurance tax”.
So anyone can refuse to buy a policy and refuse to pay the resulting tax. The IRS will send a bill but that is all.
stands for decibels
June 28th, 2012
12:53 pm
…and I’m not here to gloat, but I’d hope Kyle could recognize that maybe what was upheld, was the notion that when you have a law you don’t like, maybe you ought to get people elected who’ll change it, rather than simply hoping the Court will do your political work for you.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
June 28th, 2012
12:54 pm
Hopefully, President Romney will reverse THAT appointment.
How exactly would he do that?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
12:54 pm
from Townhall.com:
The only way this deeply unpopular law goes away is through legislative repeal. That only happens, realistically, if President Obama loses in the fall, and Republicans seize the Senate while retaining the House. Even then it will be an uphill fight. Don’t buy anyone’s spin that this is somehow “bad news” for Obama. Yes, it will fire up conservatives even more and hand Mitt Romney a sledgehammer issue (”middle class tax hike,” anyone?), but the president’s signature accomplishment has survived.
md
June 28th, 2012
12:54 pm
“If we allow or expect any justice to be driven by ideology instead of jurisprudence, then we may as well scrap the country altogether.”
Well……seems at least 7 of the 9 are driven by ideology………so what’s that do for us?
If anything, the libs on the court seem to be a bigger problem…….at least Roberts and Kennedy have some movement.
Mary Elizabeth
June 28th, 2012
12:54 pm
The President began his remarks by saying that this decision should not be viewed as a partisan victory, but as a victory for the American people who will now be able to have the security of healthcare.
———————————
I wish to offer a moment of memory for, and gratitude to, the deceased Senator Edward Kennedy for his decades of unrelenting effort and commitment in trying to secure healthcare for all Americans as their right as Americans, and not simply as a privilege for the well-endowed and well-connected.
May you now Rest In Peace, Senator Kennedy.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
12:55 pm
“You have to forgive the wingnuts, they’ve slowly become more and more unhinged as the economy improves”
I was unaware that dropping the expected growth to 1% from 1.9% was considered an “improving” economy Troll.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
12:55 pm
Well, today proves that GWB was pretty lousy at appointing a Chief Justice.
Ya think? Wasn’t his first choice Harriet Myers? LOL
stands for decibels
June 28th, 2012
12:56 pm
How exactly would he do that?
Mitt knows people, who know people…
retiredds
June 28th, 2012
12:57 pm
Brosephus at 12:40: You are correct. But the likes of Lil Barry, td, and other conservatives would only agree with you if the SC decides issues that conform to their ideology. And therein lies the problem for the R’s and Tea Party: they can’t stand it when a ruling doesn’t go their way. So you have them screaming about the tax issue, just like they scream about voter fraud, immigrants taking their jobs, and when you call them out on the mythological weapons of mass destruction, etc., etc. So one of them says this is not America anymore and he (or she) is right. It is just not the America they want to foist upon the rest of us (and I thank the Supreme Court for that).
And like many of you it is fun to see the likes of td and lil barry squirm and try to rewrite history to their liking so they can live to see another day. And thankfully we live in a country that tolerates their views, my views, and the views of many others. So, td and lil barry have a great day is spite of your thinking that the sky is falling.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
June 28th, 2012
12:57 pm
…and I’m not here to gloat,
I am.
I’m literally spiking a football as we speak.
A full size NFL regulation one.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
12:57 pm
May you continue to Burn in Hell, Senator Kennedy.
Murderer AND drunkard.
Reason
June 28th, 2012
12:57 pm
Tiber
You have not responded to all the tax dollars that are being paid today to fund emergency room costs, public health clinics, public hospitals, Medicaid, insurance premium taxes to fund lousy high risk pools and uncompensated health care services that are funded through cost shifting by providers. We have a very fragmented healthcare system today but hopefully that will change. The only beneficiaries of the present system are the private insurance companies who avoid risk instead of spreading risk.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
12:59 pm
“Wasn’t his first choice Harriet Myers?”
As usual, Finn, you are incorrect. Harriet Myers was never nominated for Chief Justice. Merely a Justice.
Tiberious, Refute this
June 28th, 2012
12:59 pm
The next logical progression is an oxymoron in the manner in which you use it. There is no next logical progression, there is only your guess as to what will happen.
I tried to engage with you but your continued dependence on your guess as facts make an intelligent debate impossible. You are hopelessly lost in your hatred and partisanship. Such fallacious argument is everything that is wrong with political discourse.
I may return but for now I’m out. If you want to take my having better things to do as a win then please feel free.
Tea Party Meber
June 28th, 2012
1:00 pm
I say its up 2 the citisen of this country 2 make sure Justice Roberts is not relected.
Brosephus
June 28th, 2012
1:01 pm
Well……seems at least 7 of the 9 are driven by ideology………so what’s that do for us?
In the short term not much we can do. In the long term, it shows we need to pay more attention to who we send to DC and the actions they take there. Both sides are equally culpable for those 7 being on the bench, and it will take both sides to NOT do that in the future. Given the partisaned nature of our country at this point and time, I don’t expect to see anything change in my lifetime.
Rafe Hollister, s avalancheuffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 28th, 2012
1:01 pm
Brosephus,
If we allow or expect any justice to be driven by ideology instead of jurisprudence, then we may as well scrap the country altogether.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Conservative presidents appoint people who will uphold the constitution as written, and not make implausible, self serving, legally obtuse, activist arguments as reasons for why they do what they do. Roberts went around his elbow to get to his thumb, all to produce a ruling that he thought would not be perceived as ideological and present his court in what he thought was a favorable light. IMO
Dems appoint people to the SCOTUS, who they think will expand the powers of the Fed Gov and help implement the progressive agenda and make the Constitution evolve. They by and large always stick to script and no one ever questions how the Liberal Block will vote, it is understood.
The pressure is always on the Conservatives, to try and pick one off, to move the progressive agenda forward. Roberts leaped willingly into their lap. Turncoat is what he is.
Your statement is wishful thinking. These people have their ideology formed long before they are selected to the court. The President in power simply selects someone who thinks as he does. Roberts obviously favored popularity over his lifetime philosophy.
Did you have any premonition or self doubt that one of Oblamers appointees would vote to overturn. NO, you didn’t because, he picked people like Kagan and Sotomayor to uphold Obamacare. Roberts turned on the people who put him there as did Souter, appointed by GHWB.
md
June 28th, 2012
1:02 pm
“How exactly would he do that?”
Easy……just issue orders to not enforce certain laws he no longer likes……the current guy is setting that precedent.
Imagine, the next guy just up and decides he doesn’t like the hc bill and decides unilaterally that he will no longer have the DOJ or IRS enforce it………..
Pandora’s box is wide open………..
Thomas Heyward Jr.
June 28th, 2012
1:02 pm
For anyone interested in liberty……….
(Obama/Romney Supporting government Cheese/Brocolli eaters……just disregard)———-
“I strongly disagree with today’s decision by the Supreme Court, but I am not surprised. The Court has a dismal record when it comes to protecting liberty against unconstitutional excesses by Congress.
“Today we should remember that virtually everything government does is a ‘mandate.’ The issue is not whether Congress can compel commerce by forcing you to buy insurance, or simply compel you to pay a tax if you don’t. The issue is that this compulsion implies the use of government force against those who refuse. The fundamental hallmark of a free society should be the rejection of force. In a free society, therefore, individuals could opt out of “Obamacare” without paying a government tribute.
“Those of us in Congress who believe in individual liberty must work tirelessly to repeal this national health care law and reduce federal involvement in healthcare generally. Obamacare can only increase third party interference in the doctor-patient relationship, increase costs, and reduce the quality of care. Only free market medicine can restore the critical independence of doctors, reduce costs through real competition and price sensitivity, and eliminate enormous paperwork burdens. Americans will opt out of Obamacare with or without Congress, but we can seize the opportunity today by crafting the legal framework to allow them to do so.” ………Ron Paul
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
1:03 pm
Reason, I have already done so. You merely haven’t understood them.
For every person that might use an emergency room without health care insurance, there are literally tens of thousands who will never use that emergency room. In addition, there are still many people without insurance that will use the emergency room and actually pay for the services rendered.
I will also point out, despite your disdain for private insurance companies, that 80% of people with private insurance actually LIKE their insurance.
sheepdawg
June 28th, 2012
1:04 pm
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah…whine on kyle, even your right wing skewed sc saw the truth in this one, have you considered you’ll be a later middle aged man when hillary finishes her second term as president?
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
1:05 pm
Tea Party Meber, Justices on the Supreme Court are not elected. They are appointed for life.
ld
June 28th, 2012
1:05 pm
I demand 12:51
And Bush did not lie about nationbuilding? BOTH Republicans and Dems lie — Romeny stumbled into the truth with his statement if we’re told the truth — their real agenda — we will not vote for them — any of them.
Brosephus
June 28th, 2012
1:06 pm
retiredds
I didn’t like the decision that came down today. I didn’t like the law that was passed either. I didn’t think it would be found unconstitutional either based on the effort put into crafting the idea of the mandate back in the 1990’s.
We need something to control costs, and selling the country to the insurance companies will not control costs. I would love to see the private sector work things out on their own, but I don’t expect them to put anything over the drive to increase profits. Without profits they don’t survive. If I knew the answer to what we need, I’d give it away in a heartbeat. I just don’t think that this law and the impending lawsuits were what we needed. Think of all the time and money wasted instead of actually thinking logically about what could be done to control costs.
Jefferson
June 28th, 2012
1:08 pm
Kyle, refrain from parrot like headlines, it puts you in a bad light. Be your own republican.
yuzeyurbrane
June 28th, 2012
1:09 pm
Most of your conservative posters have revealed what liars they have been in railing against activist judges and for the rule of law.
md
June 28th, 2012
1:10 pm
And the same folks applauding this big entitlement program will be complaining about some other program that the states will be forced to cut down the road and not have a clue as to why…….
Jefferson
June 28th, 2012
1:10 pm
3.5 years ago growth was negative, the ecomomy HAS improved in the last 3.5 years and I hope it continues forever no matter who is the president.
zebra
June 28th, 2012
1:13 pm
Wingnut tears really are delicious, albeit a little bitter and stale.
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
1:14 pm
Well, well, well.
I’m almost surprised to see this forum open.
I would have guessed that the haters here would have had so many Level 5 Meltdowns that comments would be closed. LOL. (And maybe they have, but I would have to give a ___ to go back and look!)
Stew in your sauces, Republicans. You just got b*tch slapped yet again.
And even worse, the forecast for the rest of the year calls for more …………………………………………………………………………………………………. pain.
yuzeyurbrane
June 28th, 2012
1:14 pm
Also, Kyle I am disappointed on your lack of comment in this case for the rule of law defeating judicial activism. Didn’t you write a column entitled, “In Arizona Case, Court Doesn’t Betray Its Alleged Ideological Gap” just a couple of days ago making that point? Time to reiterate it or confess your own hypocrisy.
Brosephus
June 28th, 2012
1:15 pm
First, the idea that Conservatives put justices there to uphold the Constitution while Liberals put justices there to expand government shows your true biases dictate your everyday thinking. Both “sides” put people there for the same reason, which is to uphold their ideological interpretations. If you think otherwise, I really pray for you.
Did you have any premonition or self doubt that one of Oblamers appointees would vote to overturn. NO, you didn’t because, he picked people like Kagan and Sotomayor to uphold Obamacare.
As to the vote, the only two votes I was really interested in were Kennedy’s and Roberts. Those two are the only two that actually show any capablitity of actual cogent thought. Whether I agree or disagree with them is pointless. If their thought is backed by the Constitution, who am I to call them wrong? You obviously have me confused with somebody who actually celebrated this decision today.
Roberts turned on the people who put him there as did Souter, appointed by GHWB.
Roberts was not appointed to please those who put him there. His job is to rule on cases based on the Constitution. No one person, group, party, or ideology will be correct 100% of the time. I’m glad that he has shown that he takes his job as Chief Justice to be that instead of Chief GOP cheerleader.
Don't Tread
June 28th, 2012
1:17 pm
The SC just handed Mitt and the Republicans a truckload of ammunition for the next election. They need to use it wisely.
Hillbilly D
June 28th, 2012
1:19 pm
This has got to be one of the more convoluted things, that I’ve heard in a long time. The mandate is unconstitutional but it is constitutional to be fined, oops taxed, for not complying with the mandate.
Some folks think they won here but the real winners are the insurance industry. They will have to cover everybody, in theory, so they’ll “have” to raise rates on everybody to cover insuring more “high risk” people. Since everybody now has to be buy insurance, I expect, they’ll come out with a new lost policy, which covers virtually nothing, that will cost slightly less than what the tax will cost, which will in effect be free money for the insurance company.
A side effect of this will be that more and more employers will curtail or drop coverage altogether, as costs continue to rise.
The Affordable Care Act, does absolutely nothing to control the rising cost of healthcare, which is where the real problem lies. It’s a boon to the insurance industry, who played folks like a cheap violin.
They had a chance to really do something about healthcare and they blew it. It’ll be many years before another chance rolls around and I don’t expect to live to see it.
I haven’t read any of the posts, so I don’t know if Bruno has been here or not but he and I have had the discussion before, that as long as you have a 3rd party payer, costs will continue to go up. That leaves two options, everybody shops and pays their own bills, which is probably okay for routine health maintenance type things but not serious injury/illness situations or you go with single payer.
Me, I’m for single payer but I don’t expect to ever live to see that. Those who thing this will lead to single payer are kidding themselves, in my opinion.
If I was one of those people who likes to play the Wall Street casino, I’d be on the phone to my broker, investing in companies that sell health insurance. You’re likely to do well, which was the point all along.
And on another bent, I’m probably in the most minor of minorities but I never thought freedom of speech was intended to mean the freedom to lie, when you in fact knew you were telling a lie. I don’t think that’s what the Framers intended.
Jefferson
June 28th, 2012
1:19 pm
Wise GOP ? huh.
Jefferson
June 28th, 2012
1:21 pm
NOBODY says the law can’t be a work in progress to help Americans. Don’t stop moving forward.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 28th, 2012
1:22 pm
Coming soon–purchase a handgun or pay a penalty.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
1:24 pm
“I feel like I’m going to cry. I’m so relieved right now,” said Josephson, 39, who lives in Jacksonville, Fla. Her 6-year-old son, Wesley, has a pre-existing medical condition that made it impossible for the family to find health insurance for him until the law passed in 2010.
HuffPo
You would think the christian right would be able to muster an ounce of compassion for their fellow Americans. Alas, it’s all me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me.
Brosephus
June 28th, 2012
1:24 pm
Hillbilly D
I’ll second your entire post. Well stated. That’s why I don’t understand the whole issue anyway. Regardless to how the SCOTUS ruled, we were still gonna get screwed on healthcare costs. As long as the middleman is there to squeeze both sides, costs will not go down.
retiredds
June 28th, 2012
1:27 pm
Brosephus: You are on target about the insurance companies and profits. But let us not forget that they are in business to make money. As to your other comment about the private sector working things out it appears to me that is a conflict of interest for the private sector as it would impede the opportunities to maximize profits.
On another note, as long as we have a Congress where the opposing sides operate under the rules that those who differ from your ideology are the enemy then decisions of import such as the health care decision will be decided by the Supreme Court. That is why the immigration issue can’t be solved because each side is entrenched in its own views and if you disagree you aren’t a true American, and other such cesspool thinking.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
1:27 pm
“First, the idea that Conservatives put justices there to uphold the Constitution while Liberals put justices there to expand government shows your true biases dictate your everyday thinking.”
Brosephus, HUGE disagreement here.
The expanded powers of the Federal government have ALWAYS come through the courts upholding legislation passed by liberals.
Jefferson
June 28th, 2012
1:27 pm
Bro,Hill — thats why Congress need to worry about Americans and not the next election. The laws can be improved and modified as needed, but this we won/the world is over drama will have to be put aside in the name of maturity.
Hillbilly D
June 28th, 2012
1:28 pm
Brosephus,
I think you and I have been on basically the same page on this, the whole time. What difference does it make if I get shot in the left side of the head or the right side of the head? The results are the same.
Curious
June 28th, 2012
1:28 pm
Don’t give the Republicans any ammunition. They’ll shoot themselves in the foot.
Is stupidity classified as a pre-existing condition?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
1:29 pm
Here you go Tiberius:
On October 3, 2005, Harriet Miers was nominated for Associate Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court by President George W. Bush to replace retiring Associate Justice Sandra Day O’Connor. Miers was, at the time, White House Counsel,
Miers withdrew her nomination on October 27, 2005.
See, Tiberius is always right – in his lil dream world….
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
1:30 pm
And filing another “Law of unintended consequences” brief, this ruling means that small businesses of 50 employees or more must provide health are coverage or pay a penalty.
Wanna bet that penalty is smaller than paying for health insurance for their employees?
Either that, or employers will now lay-off people to get below 50, or not expand if it means going over that number.
Way to go, Barry, to help that economy along!
Hillbilly D
June 28th, 2012
1:31 pm
Jefferson @ 1:27
In a perfect world, that’s what would happen. Maybe they’ll (both sides) surprise me but I doubt it. Their major focus is getting re-elected and if by chance they can’t get re-elected, Plan B is to land a high paying lobbying job.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
1:32 pm
Harriet Myers:
…..The nomination almost immediately drew criticism, virtually all of it from within the President’s own party: David Frum castigated an “unforced error”,[1] and Robert Bork denounced it a “disaster” and “a slap in the face to the conservatives who’ve been building up a conservative legal movement for the last 20 years.”[2] Hearings before the United States Senate Judiciary Committee had been scheduled to begin on November 7, and members of the Republican leadership had stated before the nomination that they aimed to have the nominee confirmed before Thanksgiving (November 24)
mwuahahahahahahahahaha. Epic fail.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
1:33 pm
Finn, you really need to read my responses to you, or bone up on your english language skills.
You said she was nominated for CHIEF Justice. I said she wasn’t, but for a regular (or Associate) Justice.
Your post just proved me right – again!
Darwin
June 28th, 2012
1:33 pm
Kyle – Would have loved to see your headline if the decision had gone the other way. But you got a dig in anyway. Good for you!
iggy
June 28th, 2012
1:34 pm
“Either that, or employers will now lay-off people to get below 50, or not expand if it means going over that number.”
Or bigger companies will simply split into multiple companies to stay below the 50. That would be the smart thing.
We can only hope most of those companies laying off workers employ democrats.
iggy
June 28th, 2012
1:36 pm
According to Finn, Harriet Myers was “too fine, a goddess.”
Darwin
June 28th, 2012
1:36 pm
Tiberius @ 1:27 – “The expanded powers of the Federal government have ALWAYS come through the courts upholding legislation passed by liberals.” How about the right to an abortion?
Jefferson
June 28th, 2012
1:40 pm
Hill, agreed but without hope there is no use in the future. Its bad when those who can solve problems only worry about their existance.
md
June 28th, 2012
1:41 pm
If folks think costs are going to go down after giving “everybody” a nice shiny new insurance card to run down to the doctor/ER every time little johnny has the sniffles, then one is only fooling oneself……do a little research on the MA costs…….emergency room visits actually INCREASED because folks had new cards and didn’t want to wait to go to the doctor……look it up.
This will not be responsible healthcare……it will be mega trips to the doctor on another’s dime……
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
1:41 pm
“Either that, or employers will now lay-off people to get below 50, or not expand if it means going over that number.”
If a company is THAT worried about not being able to make payroll, if they have THAT much trouble staying in business, people evidently aren’t buying their products, then they should probably close their doors anyway. I don’t want to be the last employee in a dying company.
If sales are hopping then managers should be figuring out just how many employees they need to meet demand. If sales are hopping I would hope their last concern is the health care costs they pay for the people who are making them so wealthy and helping them put out a product people want! I wouldn’t want to work for someone who was soooooo into pinching every little penny cause they might not get to take that extra penny and put into Timmy’s trust fund.
No artificial flavors
June 28th, 2012
1:41 pm
What a turd of a decision! Im not sure what im more shocked by, the fact that merely existing as a human in America without any commerce activity can now be penalized..errr…taxed or that this asinine logic was penned by John Roberts, not Ginsburg. wow, just wow.
Jefferson
June 28th, 2012
1:42 pm
ig, that’s the kind of thinking that give the GOP their bad name. Man up instead of looking for loopholes. Obligations.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
1:43 pm
Darwin, Roe v. Wade expanded the powers of the Federal government in taking primacy over individual state laws.
Jefferson
June 28th, 2012
1:43 pm
md, just what are you talking about. You don’t get an insurance card unless you pay a premium. Free, are you nuts ?
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
1:44 pm
Finn, how would YOU know anything about making payroll?
No artificial flavors
June 28th, 2012
1:45 pm
Finn, what about local governments and non profits that are not supposed to make profits. Thy are gona have to dump extra costs on their employees or dump them altogether. This affects a lot more than invetment banking instituion employees and high end retailers.
md
June 28th, 2012
1:46 pm
“md, just what are you talking about. You don’t get an insurance card unless you pay a premium. Free, are you nuts ?”
You must have missed the part about subsidies for those making as little as 88k a year……
Spending other peoples money……some folks are going to have a field day with little johnny……the poor kid will know everybody at the doctors office on a first name basis………..
Brosephus
June 28th, 2012
1:47 pm
Tiberius
I’m guessing you purposefully left off the next sentence: “Both “sides” put people there for the same reason, which is to uphold their ideological interpretations.” Do you object to that as well? If you thought I was saying that Conservatives put justices there to expand government, then you misread what I was posting.
Jefferson
As optimistic as I am, I seriously doubt we’ll see Congress act in that fashion. They have campaigns to finance, and the only way they can currently pull that off is that they do the bidding of those who give them the big money they need. Americans come in a far second on the hierarchy chart.
Hillbilly D
Yeah, we’ve been almost one and the same. I’m not completely sold on a single payer system, but if that’s the only way to control the middleman, then I’ll have to live with it. Regarding Bruno, he stormed off Bookman’s earlier, so it may be a while before he shows up on any AJC blog.
Scott Fresno
June 28th, 2012
1:47 pm
As a taxpayer and a person with insurance, I have been subsidizing the health care of these free loaders for years. Now they will have to pay their own way – either by buying insurance or paying a tax. Good. The able-bodied free-loading cost-causers should pay their own way.
stands for decibels
June 28th, 2012
1:48 pm
Me, I’m for single payer but I don’t expect to ever live to see that. Those who thing this will lead to single payer are kidding themselves, in my opinion.
I disagree with the first part–I do think we’ll likely see a “Medicare for all” solution while you’re still around (and still confounding those who believe in sticking people tidy pigeonholes, one hopes!)
However, I do agree that it’s foolish to assume this ruling, or the PPACA itself, brings us any closer to that day.
fair and balanced-
June 28th, 2012
1:48 pm
John Roberts on Monday and again today stood up for Justice and showed that the gang of five are not all a bunch of right wing political hacks. The Court by uphholding Obamacare basically overturned or remedied the injustice of the unfunded mandate passed by Reagan and the Congress which was 100% socialized medicine- EMTALA and applied conservative principles of individual responsibility .
Wait till the rebate checks on excess profits start going out from the insurers which could be over a billion dollars.What will the right wing mouthpieces say then?They want a president who encourages increases in premiums to feed the corporate echelon big bonuses?
We will see if the sheep finally wake up and realize John Roberts was writing as a true conservative in upholding the law.What will the right wing mouthpieces say then.
Can you imagine if the state passed a law that everyone has to get water supplied by the city regardless of ability to pay.? Would it be socialism if Governor Obama passed a law penalizing anyone who does not pay their water bill or get a low income subsidy? Oh I forgot there is that idiot/lobbyist who the right wing hacks worship who gave an edict of no new taxes even if they are a penalty to deter moochers who get free health care at the emergency room.
Jack in Ga
June 28th, 2012
1:49 pm
Ok. Well now we know that if you’re unemployed and are barely making ends meet or maybe just a few weeks away from losing your house or car that the government now is going to be able to impose a tax on you. The IRS is going to be coming for you to make sure you pay this largest tax increase in the history of the world!! I hope all you libs are celebrating right up to the point where the IRS takes your refund. Also one thing is clear now.. Obama lied from the very beginning, THIS IS A TAX..
md
June 28th, 2012
1:50 pm
“Now they will have to pay their own way – either by buying insurance or paying a tax. Good. The able-bodied free-loading cost-causers should pay their own way.”
No, they won’t……..the “wont’s” will still be living off your dime…….this is an entitlement program disguised as a healthcare program………
Jefferson
June 28th, 2012
1:50 pm
If doctors and health care workers are to be paid tidy salaries, the profits from the insurance companies are the only thing to look at. The costs are too high to not spread them out. Life is a struggle.
iggy
June 28th, 2012
1:53 pm
Jefferson
June 28th, 2012
1:42 pm
Business are in business to stay in business. They have shareholders to which they are accountable. Paying for the “will nots” is not their concern nor should it be.
Im saddened by this foolish decision by the SCrotumOTUS, however, Im quite sure those big bad insurance companies and other responsible business’ have their attorneys and statisticians working the problem as we speak.
Hopefully they will find a course, take it and render ObamaCare a moot point.
One thing you can bet on is more layoffs are in the offaling.
ralph
June 28th, 2012
1:53 pm
Kyle, why the big deal about the president lying? Bush lied about Iraq having WMD’s, which he used to get us in war that was not needed. At leas Obama’s lie didn’t result in anyone dying.
md
June 28th, 2012
1:54 pm
“The costs are too high to not spread them out. Life is a struggle.”
And the next logical step is to dictate how folks live in order to maintain those costs for the “good of all”……….the monster tax on cigarettes and tanning beds was a warning shot.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
1:55 pm
Brosephus, I have no problem with any side wishing to keep the role of the Federal government Constitutionally small.
I can usually rely on the conservative members of the SCOTUS to provide that. I can never rely on the liberal members to simply leave things alone in that regard.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
1:56 pm
Buzzfeed reports that dozens of patriotic Americans are vowing to flee to Canada – with it’s tax-payer funded universal health-care system because “the United States is entirely too socialist.” At the time of this writing, there are no reports yet of Canadian authorities moving to shut down their Southern border.
alternet.org
Tommy Maddox
June 28th, 2012
1:57 pm
Love Me Some Reagan @ 10:56: “Those right wing talk shows, blogs, website sure duped you people”.
Nope – we were duped by the President, Pelosi, and Reid when they said that the Act was not a tax.
Word to all – it is a tax.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
1:58 pm
md says “keep yer government hands off my tanning bed!”
Mary Elizabeth
June 28th, 2012
1:59 pm
About the possibility of a single payer healthcare policy ultimately, I never thought that I would see the end of apartheid in South Africa in my lifetime. But it happened.
History unfolds as consciousness unfolds and the rate of that unfolding is indeterminable. Those who think America’s Founders Fathers would not have approved of today’s Supreme Court decision regarding the Affordable Healthcare Act are not giving our founders enough credit for the depth and complexity of their thinking. Also, the founders did not speak as one voice, but of differing voices who all believed in the one ideal of liberty.
Thomas Jefferson had written, for instance, that the only constant should be the will of the people and that, if in the course of history, emerging Americans were not pleased with the U.S. Constitution, itself, which had served well those of his day and of the immediate days thereafter, then the U.S. Constitution should be viewed as able to be discarded and formed again to serve better the interests and vision of those Americans who, in the evolution of time, were to follow his own generation. Those were the thoughts of a founder who saw history and consciousness as a process of depth and complexity which continuously unfolded over time, and not as a static force, forever.
ld
June 28th, 2012
2:01 pm
The Obamacare “tax” will NOT affect the wealthy which can and do buy insurance. The Obamacare tax is more tax on ONLY the employee/ consumer class, NOT the wealthy, which is exactly what the GOP has wanted all along.
Roberts should have his ring kissed by the GOP.
With his Citizens United weapon of ca$h as a $uper $tereo $urround $ound $ystem that drowns out the individual voices of “we, the people”, the GOP has a substantially increased ability to win the WhiteHouse and a majority in both houses of Congress — if not 2012 then 2016.
Ca$h for lobbying, campaign contributions, advertising magnified by PAC means another triple crown for the GOP is all but inevitable–WhiteHouse and both houses of Congress..
As soon as the GOP can strip out all the industry regs and restrictions and all the protections for the employee/consumer class = ambrosia for the people for whom they REALLY work,
and that is NOT the working class of Americans.
iggy
June 28th, 2012
2:02 pm
“U.S. Constitution should be viewed as able to be discarded and formed”
Sounds as if you are hoping The Grand Poobahs next move will be so suspend the U S Constitution so we all might become “Citizens of the World.”
Nice thinking Ms Behar!
ODD OWL
June 28th, 2012
2:02 pm
As Vice President Joe Biden said so eloquently; “General Motors is alive and thriving, Bin Laden is still dead and searching frantically for his 72 virgin Brides and ObamaCare is the mandated Law of the Land.” How do i know that ??? Because Chief Justice of the Supreme Court John Roberts said so, thats how…. lets give credit where credit is due… President Bush/Cheney did one thing right when they appointed Judge John Roberts, Cheif Justice… Romneycare + Obamacare = same thing… Mandate !!!
Brosephus
June 28th, 2012
2:02 pm
Tiberius
I’m glad you have that faith. I don’t have faith in either party resisting the temptation to grab more power and authority, nor do I have faith in the SCOTUS in stopping them unless their actions violate the Constitution.
JDW
June 28th, 2012
2:03 pm
From Bob Kerry…Now that the court spectacle is over its time for Republicans and Democrats to put partisan politics aside and get down to business to find true cost containment solutions before we bankrupt the country.
From Eric Cantor…The House will vote to repeal the health care law — again — on July 11.
Once again Dems offer to work for solutions and Republicans are the Party of No…soon they will be the Party of Irrelevant.
Hillbilly D
June 28th, 2012
2:03 pm
Business are in business to stay in business. They have shareholders to which they are accountable.
The first sentence I agree with, they second one, it depends. Most of the larger corporations and multi-nationals, have hand picked boards, usually in a mutual backscratching arrangements from company to company, and share-holders have little or no say.
ld
June 28th, 2012
2:03 pm
ODD OWL
…..but can’t see the brides for the flames?
jj
June 28th, 2012
2:03 pm
Fact: Our company insurance bill went up $800,000 in 2011 when the up to 26 year old was added. If you are fiscally responsible to your shareholders you will drop all insurance and give your employees a credit and let the govt take of it. And why anyone doesn’t think this won’t happen is beyond me.
I have worked in Canada and can tell you first hand that anyone with money and a serious condition is (was) coming to the US for care.
md
June 28th, 2012
2:04 pm
“md says “keep yer government hands off my tanning bed!””
Again…..merely pointing out the obvious for those that choose to open their eyes to see it…….
Didn’t we just have a big discussion about being able to buy “too big” sodas??
Now that our benevolent gov’t got themselves into the management of our lives, one shouldn’t be surprised as those type taxes are repeated in an effort to control the costs they are now betrothed to control…………
Don’t kid yourself to think otherwise……..all one has to do is ask themselves why just cigarettes??
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
2:04 pm
I hope Chief Justice Roberts has some very good health care.
He’ll need it to get that brain aneurism looked at immediately.
iggy
June 28th, 2012
2:06 pm
“If you are fiscally responsible to your shareholders you will drop all insurance and give your employees a credit and let the govt take of it.”
And I hope thats exactly what happens.
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
2:06 pm
Tiberius
There is nothing to debate. You were one saying the law was not constitutional…….. Don’t be upset at others because you were wrong.
Graham
June 28th, 2012
2:07 pm
1) “People are required to obey the speed limit and have to pay a penalty if they get caught speeding? Does anyone consider that a tax?”
I have the choice not to speed and not get fined. I don’t have the choice to not have health coverage and not get fined.
and
2) “People are required to have car insurance and can be fined if they are caught without it. Is that a tax?”
No. I have the choice not to own a car (public transportation, walk, bike, train, fly) and not pay insurance. I don’t have the choice to opt out of obama care just like I don’t have the choice to opt out of paying for national security and military.
BillS
June 28th, 2012
2:07 pm
What good news for most Americans. Perhaps the result will be better health care outcomes for a nation that ranks surprisingly low among industrialized nations in its health coverages. At lest let us all hope that will be the bottom line
ld
June 28th, 2012
2:09 pm
Hillbilly D (2:03pm)
You’ve identified a huge problem. If all publically traded companies were required to have stockholders/shareholders/owners actually specifically authorize on an annual basis the compensation packages for their executives and if there could be no ADVANCE obligations for “bonuses” in case those executives fail (in the view of the owners– could include more than money failures), then huge companies could and would likely pay management less and, hopefully, rank and file employees at least a living wage.
iggy
June 28th, 2012
2:10 pm
“At lest let us all hope that will be the bottom line”
Keep dreaming…and good luck with that porcupine salad.
iggy
June 28th, 2012
2:11 pm
“rank and file employees at least a living wage.”
Thanks Comrade Lenin.
brad
June 28th, 2012
2:11 pm
Hey dumb f*cks! Roberts called it a tax, NOT Obama. Eat it cons.
independent thinker
June 28th, 2012
2:12 pm
Kyle- if you read Roberts scholarly opinion you would see he concluded it was not a tax or the anti-injunction statute would bar judicial review until the penalty is paid. Glad to see you believe in socialized medicine as passed by your patron saint- Reagan.
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
2:12 pm
“Roe v. Wade expanded the powers of the Federal government in taking primacy over individual state laws.”
Well as far as “right” and “left” goes I would suggest you check which Justices voted which way and how they voted overall during their time on the SC.
Hint: It wasn’t just a left / right deal, but do keep up the drivel
ODD OWL
June 28th, 2012
2:12 pm
@ Id 2:03 post….. Lol
Dusty
June 28th, 2012
2:13 pm
So the major part of ObamaCare was passed by the Supreme Court.
We no longer need a Supreme Court. We no longer live in a democratic Republic. All decisions will be made in Washington for “the good of the people”.
Forget the fourth of July. Every day is Dependence Day from now on.
BillS
June 28th, 2012
2:13 pm
Iggy, your partisan replies add nothing. If you wish the law does not accomplish any good, then you actively work against attempts to help expand and increase health care coverage. If you don’t see expansion as a worthy goal for this country, then shame on you.
ld
June 28th, 2012
2:14 pm
We’ll likely never know many people would be better prepared for retirement if their retirement funds had received more “profit” while those failures of bankers less in salargy, undeserved bonuses and outrageous golden parachutes.
Obama followed Bush’s failure as leader in bailing out the banks without concessions and reform in advance of the bailouts.
We’ll also likely to never know many retirement funds will now be unable to buy the supplimental medical insurance promised the retirees because of this repeat failure of leadership.
Mary Elizabeth
June 28th, 2012
2:14 pm
iggy, 2:02 pm
“Sounds as if you are hoping The Grand Poobahs next move will be so suspend the U S Constitution so we all might become ‘Citizens of the World.’ ”
=============================================
I don’t think in cliches, or in one-dimensional caricatures, iggy.
iggy
June 28th, 2012
2:15 pm
Perhaps a good idea might be for companies to continue offering healthcare insurance to their exempt employees and allow the non-exempt employees to fend for themselves. That would leave the non-exempts, who are usually the “will nots,” high and dry and help the productive workers, who are the ones, carrying the load.
Participation on the company dime must be earned.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
2:16 pm
Reagan, once again you’re being deliberately dense (SOP for you, btw).
I was right that it wasn’t Constitutional under the Commerce Clause. That Chief Justice Roberts’ brain aneurism allowed him to rewrite legislation from the bench is his problem.
However, as has been pointed out ad nauseum, I am over the ruling itself and wish to move on to the aftermath. Something YOU and your fellow libs are incapable of doing. There is no debate today nor any useful discussion in saying the SCOTUS was right or wrong (which is probably why you linger on that point).
The only discussion is what happens next, something you are apparently incapable of doing.
MiddleClass
June 28th, 2012
2:17 pm
Kyle, stop acting like a jerk because you didn’t get what you wanted in this decision. There is a penalty and tax on everything we do in this country. The most important thing is that our five justices realize that we need to do something about a large segment of our population that do not have healthcare.
Anytime we pay for anything we don’t care for we complain. Ex: I’m in the process of divorce and the state of Georgia require that (as parents) I and my spouse attend a parenting seminar; which they make us pay and sit for 4 hours. I consider this a tax and penalty; which I’m willing to pay for my “health”.
Hillbilly D
June 28th, 2012
2:17 pm
Id
I forget the exact figures but I remember reading that back when the 1st Chrysler bailout/loan was going on, Lee Iococca made like $3-4 million a year. By contrast, the head of Honda at that time made about the equivalent of $400K, U.S.
I also remember when one of the heads of a Japanese car company, I forget which one, said when times are bad, the people at the top need to take the hit, because they are the ones to blame, if the company isn’t doing well.
iggy
June 28th, 2012
2:18 pm
Mary. Nice emotional synapse.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 28th, 2012
2:18 pm
“Now they will have to pay their own way – either by buying insurance or paying a tax.”
——
The tax starts at $95 and maxes out at 1% of income…guess who pays for the rest of the bill? Still you.
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
2:19 pm
Next…..
That depends who wins in November
Put keep huffing and puffing per the usual……………..
Please provide the link to where you said BEFORE today about the law being unconstitutional per the Commerce Clause
Yapping about it after Roberts said it in itself means you mimicking well. Nothing more, nothing less
Mary Elizabeth
June 28th, 2012
2:19 pm
And neither did Thomas Jefferson, who actually penned the thoughts you had attributed to me in your 2:02 pm post (although I do agree with Jefferson’s view regarding the U.S. Constitution).
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
2:21 pm
Uh, brad @ 2:11?
Obama’s lawyers called it a tax when they were arguing this in front of the SCOTUS.
Who’s the dumb f – - – now?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 28th, 2012
2:22 pm
LOL:
as Democratic National Committee political director Patrick Gaspard tweeted, “It’s constitutional. B_____s.”) Had the law been struck down, the president’s Republican enemies would have been shrieking about the socialist tyrant usurper who’d gotten his constitutional come-uppance by the country’s true leaders, the Republican Supreme Court majority. (Actually, I think that’s exactly what Justice Antonin Scalia wrote in his dissent.)
salon.com
Mateo
June 28th, 2012
2:23 pm
McConnell, Boner, and Kan’tor can all go s u c k it! So sorry Republicants but despite your best efforts something actually got done! John Roberts actually has a reasonable mind unlike Scalia, Thomas, and Alito, the lockstep yes men that schlob the knobs of the GOP.
JDW
June 28th, 2012
2:23 pm
So now the Republicans in Georgia must get around to acting…they are one of the few state legislators that completely ignored the requirements of the law while this boondoggle was going on and as such are faced with a hard stop in 2014 for the creation of exchanges. Wow they might have to cut short the lobbying perks this year to do some work.
JDW
June 28th, 2012
2:24 pm
opps legislatures plural
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
2:24 pm
“Who’s the dumb f – – – now?”
Now we call people names because our little feelings are hurt and the emotions are running higher than our brain can control them……….
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
2:24 pm
“Please provide the link to where you said BEFORE today about the law being unconstitutional per the Commerce Clause”
Another deliberately dense reply, Reagan.
ALL my comments have been based on the law AS WRITTEN, which was that it was an appropriate use of the Commerce Clause.
Idiot.
ODD OWL
June 28th, 2012
2:24 pm
Now that the Roberts Supreme Court has ruled that Mandated Romney/Obama care is Constitutional… The Democrats and the Republicans must get to work in a bipartisan fashion on combining Romney/Obama Care, social security, medicare, medicaid, dential insurance, eyecare, and aid to Mothers with dependent Children into one comprehensive, single payer, Universal National Health Insurance plan… The Chief Justice has spoken and OBAMACARE is the law of the land…
Mary Elizabeth
June 28th, 2012
2:25 pm
iggy, there has been nothing “emotional” about my remarks. My remarks have been based on my readings of Jefferson’s thoughts. You only try to insult, without any justification. That is not ethical and your tactic should, therefore, be called out for what it is, which I have now done.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 28th, 2012
2:25 pm
Does that John-Roberts-nominating George W. Bush have a lawn? I’d like to take a big hairy dump right in the middle of it.
Rightwing Troll
June 28th, 2012
2:27 pm
You ilks sure are whiny pu$$ies…
JDW
June 28th, 2012
2:28 pm
@LBB…”The tax starts at $95 and maxes out at 1% of income…guess who pays for the rest of the bill? Still you.”
Wrong as usual (of course)…In 2014, the penalty will be $285 per family or 1% of income, whichever is greater. By 2016, it goes up to $2,085 per family or 2.5% of income.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
2:28 pm
Just responding to brad’s stupidity in kind, Reagan.
Try to keep up, will ya?
Oh, wait! That’s impossible for you to do! Please return to your spiking the ball moment. The rest of us will intelligently discuss the aftermath of this ruling.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 28th, 2012
2:28 pm
Mary, it’s been clear for a long time that you know nothing of Thomas Jefferson’s thoughts.
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
2:29 pm
Tiberius
That is what I thought. You CAN NOT show that one time before today, where you referenced the law (Yes it is the LAW) as being unconstitutional per the Commerce Clause
Yes you cried, shouted and pouted about it being unconstitutional, YOU were WRONG, but I grant you did say it.
Now you want to talk about what you knew and said, blah blah blah
But if it pumps up your little ego and chest……………. be my guest and keep it up
Too cute
June 28th, 2012
2:29 pm
Look at Kyle with his panties in a wad. I thought the case was about the constitutionality of the individual mandate (which is at the heart of the whole law)? So why does it matter that Obama said this was not a tax? He is a politician and it was in his best interest to portray it as not a tax. But I guess Kyle’s mom got all pissed that he wet his bed this morning after the ruling so now he’s letting it out on us. Give it up Kyle. You suck at this.
iggy
June 28th, 2012
2:30 pm
Thank you, Comrade Mary.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 28th, 2012
2:31 pm
So, JDW, what kind of policy will $2085 buy?
Bottom line, the parasites will still be free-riding, as intended by Obozo. Hard to believe some are too stupid to grasp such a simple concept.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
2:32 pm
“By 2016, it goes up to $2,085 per family or 2.5% of income.”
And given that providing private health care insurance likely costs employers about $12k per year per employee, what do you think is going to happen, JDW?
Yup. Employers are going to drop their private plans like a rock, and merrily pay the penalty. You people really have no idea what is going to happen, do you? You have no concept of “cause and effect”. None.
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
2:33 pm
Not sure if his show is still on, but Eric Erickson was on WSB earlier for a special show
He has the best spin of them all. Probably catch it on RedState, if his show is over.
His spin is that Roberts really did this so the law can be struck down. It was just a sneaky backdoor way to keep the hand clean of the SC, yet kill the law
OK
Ya Think So?
June 28th, 2012
2:33 pm
No one requires you to pay income tax if you do not have an income! For all of the fools out there comparing this to car insurance.. the federal government does NOT require people that do NOT drive or have a car to have car insurance.If you get a ticket for going over 55 mph in a 55 mph zone, HINT No ONE is forcing you to drive that fast. Apparently Living in the United State is a TAXABLE offense! So says the Supreme Court. This is NOW a tax and will be repealed easy! People that have jobs and have insurance do not worry about it. Those of you out of a job, self employed and in government funds? Good Luck paying for this. We will all be paying for this. oh and BTW if you think this is the END of government control in your life? HA! Got news for you. You just gave the government the right to control your lives.
Silver Lining
June 28th, 2012
2:35 pm
Can’t wait to see the poor broke down liberals having to pay for them some healthcare they don’t use. My old friends and I will sure appreciate the free healthcare those 27 year olds will be subsidizing.
iggy
June 28th, 2012
2:35 pm
“So, JDW, what kind of policy will $2085 buy?”
Very little. Hopefully the HCare providers are looking into lowering the policy limits and increasing the minimum allowable deductible.
I bet they are!!
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
2:38 pm
Earlier this week, Flip argued that if Obamacare was not deemed constitutional — then the first three and a half years of this president’s term would have been wasted on something that has not helped the American people…
Now the laugh about wasted time is on him.
Barry to the Flip Flopper – That’ll be two terms, thank you very much.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
2:39 pm
It is disheartening to read that someone like “too cute” thinks so little of our politicians that they can dismiss a President potentially lying to the American public in so cavalier a fashion.
Proving once again that liberals have no core principles of honor at all.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 28th, 2012
2:39 pm
His spin is that Roberts really did this so the law can be struck down. It was just a sneaky backdoor way to keep the hand clean of the SC, yet kill the law
——
Struck down? Is there another court above the Supreme Court that we don’t know about?
GFY
June 28th, 2012
2:39 pm
A few steps closer to insolvency…..who do you idiot progressives think will pay for our exanded entitlements for the non productive? As a point the Chinese will tell the US to go pound sand and they are no longer financing our lazy population. For an example of this look to the Greece………….
JDW
June 28th, 2012
2:39 pm
@Tiberuis…”Yup. Employers are going to drop their private plans like a rock, and merrily pay the penalty. ”
Frankly I hope they do. Then the consumer will begin to understand just how much money the health care system in this country wastes and it will be far easier to get a single payer program that can truly make a big impact in place.
However, I don’t think they will. Insurance is baked into total employee costs and if they do that they will have to raise salaries or lose thier best people.
Chuck Snow
June 28th, 2012
2:39 pm
Buh Bye Obama, you’re on the way out.
Mary Elizabeth
June 28th, 2012
2:40 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout, 2:28 pm,
I suggest that you read Saul K Padover’s book entitled, “Jefferson” to expand your knowledge of Jefferson’s mind, as I have. Padover was a Professor of History at the University of California andat the New School for Social Research in New York City. He received a doctorate degree in history from the University of Chicago and is the author of 30 books, six of which were on Jefferson.
————————–
What has been “clear for a long time,” however, is that you seem not to be able to address me, except through insulting. I would suggest, Lil’ Barry Bailout, that you look into yourself, and not into me, for that unfortunate truth is unhealthy.
iggy
June 28th, 2012
2:41 pm
Yes Dems. Us Reps got screwed and are none to happy about this, however, silver lining does make a valid point.
Further. Us Reps know we got screwed and will make the proper course corrections. Many of you Dems have no course to correct as the ramifications of this ObamaCare elude you.
All in a days work. Oh I forgot…the “will nots” for whom this debacle was designed, Wont Work. Enjoy the tax increase.
GFY
June 28th, 2012
2:41 pm
AmVet:
Bookman called and said it was time for you to come home……….
Hillbilly D
June 28th, 2012
2:41 pm
Keep in mind that the average Georgian makes $30-35K a year. If they don’t have insurance through their job, very few will be able to purchase it.
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
2:42 pm
Lil Barry
take it up with Eric Ericson……. conservative commentator on WSB, CNN and owner of RedState.com
Next
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 28th, 2012
2:43 pm
Iggy, the government dictates what has to be included in the policy, so there’s no way a policy is going to get less expensive. Obozocare is intended to destroy the free market in health care and leave Big Government running all of it.
Mary Elizabeth's Man
June 28th, 2012
2:43 pm
Are you finished with them cookies yet? Then fetch my paper!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 28th, 2012
2:44 pm
I read your post, moron.
GFY
June 28th, 2012
2:47 pm
So enlighten us all, libs? How does this SC ruling advance your own interests? Does it relieve you of having to make tough decisions and provide for your family? Or you just simply happy at the thought of someone else will be paying for your healthcare (and then they will be making decisions for you on said healthcare)?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 28th, 2012
2:47 pm
Keep in mind that the average Georgian makes $30-35K a year. If they don’t have insurance through their job, very few will be able to purchase it.
———-
Gee, I thought Obozocare fixed the free rider problem. I wonder who pays when the poor and middle class can’t?
No I don’t. Same folks who always pay–the productive.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
2:47 pm
“However, I don’t think they will. Insurance is baked into total employee costs and if they do that they will have to raise salaries or lose thier best people.”
You really don’t understand business one bit, do you, JDW?
Employee cost does not equal salary. Salaries won’t change. Costs will go down and the employers will pocket the difference, leaving EVERY employee to fend for themselves in a market that no longer exists; that being private health care insurance.
iggy
June 28th, 2012
2:48 pm
“Obozocare is intended to destroy the free market in health care and leave Big Government running all of it.”
Point taken. We can only hope the employed worker bees will continue to receive a fair shake and the non-worker bees receive a screwing somehow, someway.
I have faith the big bad business boogieMan will find a way.
retiredds
June 28th, 2012
2:48 pm
“With regards to the mandate, the individual responsibility program which I proposed, I was very pleased to see that the compromise from the two houses includes the personal responsibility principle,” Romney said in the 2006 about Romneycare in MA. “That is essential for bringing healthcare costs down for everyone and getting everybody the health insurance they deserve and need. So I was very, very pleased with that development.”
So, which is true: Romney in 2006 or Romney in 2012? Whom can you trust to tell the truth?
Sad Day
June 28th, 2012
2:50 pm
The most important thing that Roberts said is, “It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices.” Unfortunately, most of America is too uneducated/ignorant/worried about American Idol and Dancing with the Stars to comprehend the consequences that will certainly follow. This is a terrifying expansion of Government power and reach. Essentially, Congress has been given the power to require Americans to do anything or else pay a “tax.” Congratulations America!
JDW
June 28th, 2012
2:50 pm
@Hillbilly D….”Keep in mind that the average Georgian makes $30-35K a year. If they don’t have insurance through their job, very few will be able to purchase it.”
The law through tax credits and or Medicare expansion is set up so that no one has to pay more than 9.5 percent of income for quality insurance.
sue
June 28th, 2012
2:50 pm
citizens have the RIGHT to CHOOSE not to drive therefore they don’t have to pay for insurance or tickets!
independent thinker
June 28th, 2012
2:51 pm
Glad to see all the right wing sheep making gurgling noises on this blog because once again Obama pulled one over on them. I am sure they would prefer free Medicate drugs as passed by Bush or free emergency room care as passed by Reagan to the pay as you go requirement of Obama or suffer the consequences. Next get all the fat and lazy moochers who are on Medicare to pay for those luxury scooters they get for free and get them to pay for all those useless drugs big Pharma shoves down their throat with TV ads.
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
2:52 pm
Meat, the cleaners called and your sheets are ready.
THAT’s the line, you rube.
Get your own shtick.
Now…
http://tinyurl.com/meha9v
LOL.
not telling
June 28th, 2012
2:53 pm
I won’t pay it. Ever.
JDW
June 28th, 2012
2:53 pm
@Tiberius…”You really don’t understand business one bit, do you, JDW?”
Having run two businesses of more than 1000 people, one in the US and one based in Europe I got a pretty good handle thank you. As such I have a real good handle on insurance costs that companies pay particularly as you compare them worldwide.
Too cute
June 28th, 2012
2:54 pm
@Tiberius – I didn’t vote for him in 2008 and won’t be voting for him this year. But whatever it takes for you to reinforce your simple minded stereotypes of people you don’t agree with. No one expected the law to be upheld on the tax argument and so to turn that into “he lied” is kinda ridiculous and par for the course for people like you and Kyle. If the law had been struck down by Roberts solely because of the Commerce Clause then would we hear anything about his big “lie”? No. Obama, like Reagan and Bush and Clinton all have twisted the meaning of their policies to gain support. Nothing new. And if you think Reagan the Eleven Time Tax Raiser didn’t tell a few good fibs in his day then you really are hopeless.
And you missed my original point which was that right wing “journalists” like Kyle will twist this any way they can so they don’t look like complete idiots.
iggy
June 28th, 2012
2:54 pm
The workday is almost over. Im gonna go out and find a couple of cats to kick.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 28th, 2012
2:55 pm
Mary, I’ve addressed you many times, generally pointing out that you’re a pompous know-nothing.
Jefferson would be organizing the second American Revolution if he were alive today.
It’s unfortunate that so few in recent generations were taught a love for freedom and have developed such a fear of personal responsibility. You are Exhibit A.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
2:55 pm
“The law through tax credits and or Medicare expansion is set up so that no one has to pay more than 9.5 percent of income for quality insurance.”
Really, JDW? And just where is that “quality insurance” going to come from when the private insurance industry no longer exists because they can no longer stay in business due to insufficient revenues?
Medicare?
Where are these new people on Medicare going to get their care from when doctors TODAY are not taking on new Medicare patients?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 28th, 2012
2:56 pm
JDW: The Great Keyboard Kapitalist!
Tiberious, Refute this
June 28th, 2012
2:57 pm
I step back in for a moment and see that the Illogical opinion junkie Tiberius is still apoplectic about this decision. And he is still sawing on the “Coming Healthcare Apocalypse when employers drop healthcare for EVERYONE!!!!! AHHHHHH SCARY” nonsense. (Hint: your guesses are still not facts even if an hour has passed.)
The next logical progression is that you have nothing of value to add save your guesses and suppositions painted up to look like facts and to validate your sad little existence.
I”l check back and see how long you can keep up your screed. I will tell you though, I think only the choir s paying attention.
carlosgvv
June 28th, 2012
2:58 pm
The republicans announced they will meet in sessson ASAP and vote to repeal, just as I knew they would.
yuzeyurbrane
June 28th, 2012
2:59 pm
md–I was only joking last time I suggested that your handle must stand for your line of work. Looks like I was probably right.
ODD OWL
June 28th, 2012
2:59 pm
@ JDW 2;20 post….. The out of pocket cost, penalties for not enrolling in OBAMACARE is NOT enforceable by the IRS or any other Federal agency… OBAMACARE strictly forbid any insurance company or the IRS or any other Government agency from Garnisheeing your paycheck or placing a lien on your house or property if you don’t purchase OBAMACARE… In the near future, Congress will combine all the Government’s mandated, entitlement health care programs into one comprehensive, single payer UNIVERSAL NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE ENTITLEMENT called OBAMACARE… Bascally our health insurance will be FREE… The employers and the insurance companies will be forced to pay for most of it… Only in America baby !!! Obamanism and Americanism go together like hand and glove…
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
3:00 pm
Senator Obama didn’t even vote for Roberts
He and Roberts are now jamming over a “beer summit” at this moment……….. listening to some fine tune
http://blogs.ajc.com/kyle-wingfield/2012/06/28/obamacare-upheld-details-coming/?cp=8
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
3:00 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp7Q1OAzITM
Tiberious, Refute this
June 28th, 2012
3:00 pm
Wait, before I go Tiberius has expanded the “Coming Healthcare Apocalypse when employers drop healthcare for EVERYONE!!!!! AHHHHHH SCARY” to include
“AND THE PRIVATE HEALTHCARE INDUSTRY IS GOING TO CEASE EXISTENCE!!! AHHHHH EVEN MORE SCARY.”
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
3:02 pm
quick, quick vote to repeal
Maybe as early as this week… It will die in the Senate and that is that
Bwhahhahahaaa
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
3:02 pm
Still waiting for Refute this to post anything of substance or intelligence today.
iggy
June 28th, 2012
3:02 pm
“OBAMACARE strictly forbid any insurance company or the IRS or any other Government agency from Garnisheeing your paycheck or placing a lien on your house or property if you don’t purchase OBAMACARE…”
Yup. Seems the Grand Poobah, Nasty Pelosi and the other Dems forgot to mention that part.
Vote justice Roberts out of the supreme court in Noveber
June 28th, 2012
3:03 pm
Time 2 take R once grate counrty back from the libtards
Marilyn M
June 28th, 2012
3:04 pm
I support you Barak Obama and congratulate you on your achievements for all Americans, you have my vote! This Upheld Obama care is going to work out just fine for everyone, our President is honest and true and he wants all Americans to achieve in health wellfare and happiness, give him the support and tools he needs to keep this constitution fair to all.
Hillbilly D
June 28th, 2012
3:07 pm
The law through tax credits and or Medicare expansion is set up so that no one has to pay more than 9.5 percent of income for quality insurance.
But 9.5% of $30K is $2850 and it’s $3325 for $35K. If the tax/fine is $2085, a lot of people are going to take the tax/fine and hope they don’t get hurt or sick. If they do get hurt or sick, they aren’t going to be able to pay, so I can’t see where anything has been gained.
$2850 is $237.50 a month and you’re not going to come close to finding a decent policy for that. If you do find anything, it’ll cover little or nothing. I’ve already personally known a person or two who bought a low cost policy because it was all they could afford, then when they needed it, they found they were screwed because in the fine print, it turned out to only cover about 5% of what they needed and they had to declare bankruptcy
Old Timer
June 28th, 2012
3:07 pm
Yes it is a tax for everyone–Obama–tax and spend–the states can opt out of increasing Meidicad roles and still accept govrnment money. That means that some states will not add people to Medicaid–so guess who is going to pay for thieir medical care. Obama just spent this country into another hole. Folks there are no free lunches. You will see more jobless that will want extended unemployment–and who is going to pay for it? The entitlement society continues with vigor.
iggy
June 28th, 2012
3:07 pm
Oh Marilyn, spoken like a truely brainwashed ObaManiac.
Good luck with that.
Mary Elizabeth
June 28th, 2012
3:08 pm
LLB, 2:55 pm
“Mary, I’ve addressed you many times, generally pointing out that you’re a pompous know-nothing.”
=====================================
You prove the truth in my earlier remarks, Lil’ Barry, that you cannot address me without insulting me. I know you have addressed me many times, the first being when I objected to your insulting way of addressing the President of the United States. Your crudeness of sensitivity speaks for itself through your words. I always consider the source of remarks I read.
I have given one source for my knowledge of Jefferson’s thinking. Another source is Jefferson’s writings, themselves, contained in his “Autobiography” and in his “Public and Private Letters,” compiled in “The Life and Selected Writings of Thomas Jefferson.” Another is Gordon S. Wood’s book entitled, “Revolutionary Characters.”
Instead of insulting me, why don’t you, instead, name the source of your knowledge of Thomas Jefferson’s thinking, since you so boldly assert what Jefferson would be doing today.
I hope you will reflect, but I doubt that will happen. Good day.
Fez
June 28th, 2012
3:09 pm
I SAID GOOD DAY!
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
3:10 pm
“I support you Barak Obama and congratulate you on your achievements for all Americans, you have my vote!”
Not thinking he didn’t have your vote before this, Marilyn M.
Don’t think he gained one with you today.
Tiberious, Refute this
June 28th, 2012
3:10 pm
I gave you a detailed reply at 12:08 that took you to task factually and showed the ludicrousness of your so called logic.
You chose to ignore that post. Problem is anyone with any sense and not blinded by partisanship can see you stand naked in the halls of logic.
In your simpleton world I suppose closing your eyes and acting like it didn’t happen makes the big bad old Refute go away. And in a way it does because I have actual work to do so….. bye.
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
3:11 pm
No tax increases for me, Uncle Sam haters.
I’m a BIG time socialist who takes handouts from the VA. And acting like a good little Reagan Republican here, screw everyone else and their problems; it’s all about me!
But to that point, when are you chickenhawks gonna actually start supporting the troops instead of the wars?
If the 2010 health law is upheld by the Supreme Court, it would extend health coverage to thousands of the nation’s veterans, a new study says.
The study, released Thursday, said about 630,000 uninsured veterans would likely qualify for Medicaid, the state-federal health insurance program for the poor, which would be expanded under the law. In addition, 520,000 uninsured vets could qualify for subsidized health coverage in new marketplaces, or insurance exchanges.
“It is striking how many of the uninsured veterans would qualify for Medicaid under the ACA,” said co-author Genevieve Kenney, senior fellow for the non-partisan Urban Institute.
One in 10 of the nation’s 12.5 million non-elderly veterans report not having health insurance coverage and not using the Veterans Affairs health system, the study reported.
http://www.standard.net/stories/2012/05/25/study-shows-veterans-will-benefit-under-obamacare
GFY
June 28th, 2012
3:11 pm
carlosgv:
Bookman has filed missing persons report on you…..AmVet has been located…..he has not taken his meds and is a little irritable…………
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
3:13 pm
Refute this, I didn’t ignore your post, I called it lacking.
You really need to bone up on your reading comprehension skills, son.
GFY
June 28th, 2012
3:13 pm
AmVet:
Were you discharged under the old DADT policy that is now history?
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
3:13 pm
GFY
Not sure if you have ever seen or heard of this neat thing that you can do on your computer. You can open up more than one window at a time….. It is a pretty neat thing and very easy to utilize
just sayn
hgrady@uga.edu
June 28th, 2012
3:14 pm
Not having insurance is only inactivity if you don’t get sick. So, for example, your take a mortgage (i.e. you live in the US and are able to walk into any ER and be treated for trauma at any time). Your mortgage company requires you to have home owners. If you don’t have it, you lose your mortgage or pay penalties. That’s our choice here. Either let you die if you can’t pay or come up with a stick to get you to buy insurance. I prefer the later.
Frankly, I think it’s the best decision a conservative could ask for. If we repeal the law or if it was overturned, the only way to provide health care for all would be a single payer system…which would come shortly after 10 more years of out of control health care costs.
Mary Elizabeth's Man
June 28th, 2012
3:14 pm
Cookies, Woman!!! Cookies!!
JDW
June 28th, 2012
3:15 pm
@Tiberius…”And just where is that “quality insurance” going to come from when the private insurance industry no longer exists because they can no longer stay in business due to insufficient revenues?”
First off revenue won’t be the issue, everyone must buy so the market will expand, that’s the point of the mandate. What will be the issue is SG&A. In the US it varies but at big insurers it can be 18% of revenues. Going forward that will have to come down a lot.
To give you a benchmark in the UK its around 3% and even less in Canada.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
3:15 pm
AmVet, there are ways to address the 630,000 allegedly uncovered without screwing with the rest of us.
Sadly, that little bit of logic sails right over that pea-brain of yours.
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
3:16 pm
GFY
Is it a crime to be gay or you just showing a little bigotry?
JDW
June 28th, 2012
3:16 pm
@Hillbilly…”$2850 is $237.50 a month and you’re not going to come close to finding a decent policy for that.”
They will get tax credits that will enable them to pay market rate via the exchange.
GFY
June 28th, 2012
3:17 pm
Thanks to Love me long time for the tip on multiple windows……I do here tale their is something called spelling & grammar check but i ca’nt find it on the keeboard
ODD OWL
June 28th, 2012
3:17 pm
@ Old Timer 3:07 post….. OBAMACARE also insure all mental health ailments and we have many…
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
3:18 pm
Tiberius @ 3:15
Good point. Too bad when Bush had the WH and majority Congress from 01 to 07 they did little to nothing. Could have had things much more to the “rights” liken if they would have taken the initiative….
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
3:18 pm
“First off revenue won’t be the issue, everyone must buy so the market will expand, that’s the point of the mandate.”
Epic fail.
You cannot expand revenues when they will be replaced with LOWER revenues, JDW.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
3:19 pm
Reagan, that is a deflection. In addition, I am not and never was a Bush fan (although he’s looking infinitely better as this current Disaster-in-Chief goes along).
GFY
June 28th, 2012
3:19 pm
Love me long time:
Not a crime that I am aware of…..you jumping to conclusions by reading a simple question? Ever thought there may be others who were discharged for a policy no longer in place? See if you can Google that on your tiled windowpanes.
Hillbilly D
June 28th, 2012
3:21 pm
JDW
We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this part. It’ll take at least twice the $2850 to buy a decent policy. A tax credit is fine in theory but you’ll be getting into the territory where they get bigger refunds than what they’ve paid in. So we’re pretty much where we are now.
Like I said, in my opinion, the only people this plan works for is the insurance industry.
JDW
June 28th, 2012
3:21 pm
@Tiberuis…the other issue that will have to be addressed is efficiency. In 2009 the US spent 17.4% of GDP on health care. In almost all of Europe it was around 11%, in the UK it was 9.8%, Japan was 8.5% and Canada was around 11%.
Fact is they got better outcomes for less money. Our system must improve and cut costs at the same time.
Now do the math and figure out the costs you are imposing on business in the US by making them foot this bill…it is a big competitive issue.
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
3:23 pm
Tiberius
Call it what you want. Repubs and cons are now crying, but for the most part they did do much when they had the opportunity.
It is a good bill………… not so much
If Romney is elected, much of it will get slowed down or go away. If Obama is reelected, the House and he better start working to tweak a law that will move forward
But call it what you want; fact remains they punted…… period, plain and simple
JDW
June 28th, 2012
3:23 pm
@Hillbilly D…”tax credit is fine in theory but you’ll be getting into the territory where they get bigger refunds than what they’ve paid in. So we’re pretty much where we are now.”
You are correct a tax credit as opposed to a deduction will let you actually get back more than you paid in some situations. See the current child tax credit for the way it works.
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
3:24 pm
“Is it a good bill”
Excuse me
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
3:24 pm
JDW, you keep thinking this system will actually work.
It won’t.
here will not be enough money to sustain private insurance companies, and moving people to Medicare won’t get them care as doctors don’t take new Medicare patients.
That’s the bottom line.
You can nibble around the margins all you want, but you don’t understand “cause and effect”. Not one bit.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
3:27 pm
I hope you Democrats have a good plan to keep the Senate in your hands.
‘Cause this goes away via reconciliation in 2013 if you don’t.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
3:27 pm
Now its off to a late lunch and some C-SPAN.
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
3:28 pm
Tiberius
Keep opining
Keep your feet on the ground but reach for the stars
Aquagirl
June 28th, 2012
3:30 pm
Good point. Too bad when Bush had the WH and majority Congress from 01 to 07 they did little to nothing.
That’s the logical end when you’re the Party of No. The grownups finally have to step in and address what has clearly become an overwhelming situation, and then the GOP whines about that too.
Obamacare upheld: What it means now and in the future | Kyle Wingfield
June 28th, 2012
3:30 pm
[...] initial reaction to the taxing-power argument was that it pretty much offset any gain from the newly defined limit [...]
JDW
June 28th, 2012
3:31 pm
@Tiberius…”Epic fail….You cannot expand revenues when they will be replaced with LOWER revenues, JDW.”
Geeeesh you aren’t going to be doing any market sizing anytime the near future are you.
US Health market is about $700B and had been expected to grow at around 2.8%. Premiums aren’t going down but you are going to add another 16% or so to that number over the next few years. The growth rate is going to double.
Dusty
June 28th, 2012
3:33 pm
This is just another decision made against the American people. Roberts had to chase words all over the place and call it a tax and then approve it. He forgot the law, the people and the whole American “thing’ of freedom and independence.
Freedom & Independence are not achieved by forcing people to make decision against them selves. This move IS no more towards independence but only dependence on government. It is a “do it or we punish you” (with taxes) if you don’t do as THE GOVERNMENT THINKS BEST FOR YOU.
As the liberals here show us, they care neither for freedom, self dependency or character. It is based on their foolish whole idea of “free so take it”.
Nothnig is free. So the self centered minority take from the independent majority and call it a victory. It is. For sloth, dependency and the life of a parasite. It is also slow death for our country. The parasites die right along with the host they have drained of freedom and output. Obama is the originator of this particular parasitism.. The Supreme Court has become the expediter..
jay o
June 28th, 2012
3:33 pm
Joe has no insurance because he chose not to. He has a job but never cares to buy one. When he gets sick he goes to ER and who pays his bill? the American taxpayers. millions of working American chose not to buy health insurance simply because there’s is no incentive to. As result premiums for those who have insurance hike up because of demand / supply and also to make up for cases where people buy insurance just before they go to the hospital (only when they are sick). the health Insurance market, unlike other insurances, is unique because each one of us at some point in our lifetime will visit the hospital. In all honesty I do not understand why people will be against passing a law that simply requires working people to buy health insurance.
retiredds
June 28th, 2012
3:33 pm
JDW, you keep trying to get Tiberius to understand. That won’t happen. Rocks can’t think.
Todd
June 28th, 2012
3:34 pm
With the Supreme Court’s decision today on Obamacare, and the other day against Arizona, they have twice gone against the majority will of the people and the will of the States. Obama ignores congress and executive orders what laws the government is going to enforce. The Federal Government in this last week has ended the sovereignty of our individual states and completely ignored the will of the people thus ignoring their obligations to our contract the Constitution. If ever in the history of our nation there needed a second revolution it is now. Americans grab your guns and march on Washington. They have violated their oaths of office and deserve to be tired for high crimes and treason. We the people have officially lost our nation today. The land of the free is now the land of the federal government. Join the militia of your state, and if your state does not have one start one. I am in Illinois and I will be joining today the Illinois Sons of Liberty. If enough Americans join state militia’s then perhaps the government will start to fear us again, and respect their position within the Constitution. Today Americans fear the government. They fear the Goon Squad the Federal Bureau of Intimidation or FBI, they fear the courts. Our government was suppose to fear our will not us theirs. I have officially taken a vote of no confidence in the federal government’s ability to run this nation. They cannot balance the budget, or spend with in the means of this nation, they act as if they are entitled because they were elected, they rig the election system and then sue states which try to enact reforms in voter registration and voting laws, they ignore our borders, ignore our will, ignore our constitution, ignore the very fabric of this nation. It Must Stop! Bring on the Second Revolution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sheepdawg
June 28th, 2012
3:35 pm
best part of all of this will be if rush keeps his promise (a republican tell the truth? oh my!) and leaves the country. one less idiot we can do without
Just saying..
June 28th, 2012
3:35 pm
Dusty
June 28th, 2012/2:13 pm: “…We no longer live in a democratic Republic…”
Living in a democracy means you may occasionally be in the minority, Dusty. But you can take it. You’re an American.
Aren’t you?
sheepdawg
June 28th, 2012
3:36 pm
Todd, you’re almost funny as noot ginrich!!
Tiberious, Refute this
June 28th, 2012
3:36 pm
Lacking meaning that it didn’t agree with you. I get it now.
I forgot, you are the arbiter of the blog, deciding on a whim that I am lacking. You really are a sad disillusioned little person aren’t you.
And I am not your son. I’d be ashamed if I was.
Sheed
June 28th, 2012
3:36 pm
Seems to me that many on the right are so upset because their free handouts and free healthcare entitlements mentality is coming to an end. So sorry you actually have to buy your own insurance instead of being moochers off everyone else.
Hopefully there will be a waiver that will come out that will state something to the effect that if you don’t want to buy insurance fine but the taxpayers won’t let you freeload anymore . No free government services for you .
curious
June 28th, 2012
3:37 pm
Shouldn’t everyone be tired now?
After this, we should just eliminate insurance altogether and make everybody root-hog or die.
Just saying..
June 28th, 2012
3:38 pm
Todd
June 28th, 2012
3:34 pm: “Bring on the Second Revolution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
Day not going your way, Todd?
Love me some Reagan
June 28th, 2012
3:39 pm
Todd
If the rulings had gone the way you wanted and maybe expected, would those same Justices have been upholding the rule of law and the Constitution? s
JDW
June 28th, 2012
3:42 pm
@Tiberuis…read this from Deloitte…a bit dated but gives you a basic scenario view of the dynamics.
http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-UnitedStates/Local%20Assets/Documents/Health%20Reform%20Issues%20Briefs/us_chs_HealthReformAndTheIndividualInsuranceMarket_IssueBrief_101011.pdf
AmVet
June 28th, 2012
3:42 pm
Meat, were you overjoyed when a couple of guys like you strung Matthew Shepard strung up to die in the Wyoming night after they tortured him?
And did you cry when they went to prison?
Chappy
June 28th, 2012
3:43 pm
Over 50 % of health care claims are related to behavior. Can we now please see the same condemnation for drinkers and users of drugs that we are giving obesity? Let’s not forget sexual promiscuity and a host of ills associated with that.
Only then can I buy into this plan. I have no intention of paying for this societal moral choices tha those who choose such behavior, and Id rather support their freedom to make those choices and have the ones who choose so to pay for themselves.
Or, of course there should be some penalty when the death panel rules, that would keep from contained dragging down of America.
Everyone who does ought to go get and celebrate with their favorite joints, smokes and jelly donuts. But I ain’t payin.
Are there any decent free societies left or have they all become a bed of lazy socialists?
Brosephus
June 28th, 2012
3:44 pm
Like I said, in my opinion, the only people this plan works for is the insurance industry.
Amen!!!
JDW
June 28th, 2012
3:44 pm
@retiredds…”JDW, you keep trying to get Tiberius to understand. That won’t happen. Rocks can’t think”
I hold out hope that he can think, given a bit of instruction. But, then again I can be an optimist.
Dusty
June 28th, 2012
3:46 pm
Geewhiz
I wish JDW would marry Aquagirl and they could sail away in a pea green boat to the land of freebies and nursemaids. I’ll send a wedding gift but not for Obama.’s campaign fund. I’ve got scurples ya know!
JDW
June 28th, 2012
3:48 pm
@Dusty…”I wish JDW would marry Aquagirl and they could sail away in a pea green boat to the land of freebies and nursemaids. I’ll send a wedding gift but not for Obama.’s campaign fund.”
My wife would not be happy…but you can send the gift anyway.
jay o
June 28th, 2012
3:49 pm
Conservatives are against entitlements and free loaders. why are they against Obamacare? Isn’t the status quo free loading ?
And what happened to the successes of Romneycare in Michigan?
If its about constitutionality and independence then why are we all required to buy car insurance?
BlueMoon
June 28th, 2012
3:50 pm
Two things I don’t understand from the lib’s on here…
1. Romney didn’t devise this legislation no matter how much you want to believe it. It was written by the Apollo Alliance. Reid said it and the Apollo Alliance admitted it. They also crafted the Stimulus Bill. This stuff isn’t hard to find. Google is your friend.
2. There are over a dozen taxes associated with this debacle of a bill. If you don’t think the cost of EVERYTHING is going to be affected you simply don’t have an education. This is going to be a mass kill off for small business. Most small business simply cannot handle the amount of taxes coming down the pike.
You can ignore these facts all you want but it just simply doesn’t make you look very smart.
Dusty
June 28th, 2012
3:57 pm
Brosephus, 3:44
Good to see you here. I doubt that even the insurance business is happy over this one. The “disgust level” is going to be so high that even that industry will be effected.
The first person to see his “punishment” of a tax penalty for no insurance (when he did not have enough money in the first place) is going to be throwing “tea overboard” or just plain upchucking.
They can dress ObamaCare in pretty clothes but it is still a prostitution of liberty and self determination. .
common sense
June 28th, 2012
3:58 pm
So I’m a private business struggling to survive, I offer my 78 employees health insurance-now- but the ever increasing costs wont allow me to continue and survive. All projections (reasonably thought out ones) show health care costs will not only increase, they will skyrocket if this bill indeed survives till 2014. So I can:
a. Pay the mandate maybe survive, but most likely not becuase health ins is my single biggest cost after payroll
b. Make all employees independent ccontractors and offer zero benefits
c. cut employees to 49 to get under the mandate
d. Split into 3 seperate companies w/26 employees each and again avoid the mandate.
Now which scenario do you envision the majority of small business (the backbone of the economy) will do?
Dusty
June 28th, 2012
4:00 pm
JDW 3:48
If your wife is happy, I should send her a present. She’s done the impossible.
Road Scholar
June 28th, 2012
4:01 pm
Are these the same conservatives who were calling liberals and free thinkers petty, and insulting, and stupid, and…desperate just a few days ago? My has the worm has turned! Go ahead, squeal like a pig!
This is more than semantics
June 28th, 2012
4:02 pm
Amazing…..How and why can I be taxed for something I choose not to buy or use?
Hope the republicans hammer dems for flagrantly lying not call it a tax. When everyone knew it was the entire time.
Another tax indeed
June 28th, 2012
4:07 pm
Road Scholar….using a line from “Deliverance” to attempt your gloating is very elementary.
We are all Americans who will have to deal with this in many different ways. Some it will no doubt favor. Many it will not. But rest assured, it will be very, very costly.
hmmm
June 28th, 2012
4:09 pm
Road is certainly not a Rhodes Scholar.
stock prices plummet again....thanks supreme court
June 28th, 2012
4:12 pm
Guess the recession will continue much longer now, with this ruling.
Brosephus
June 28th, 2012
4:12 pm
Dusty
I’m usually lurking in the shadows and reading. I don’t know about the insurance companies. I’ve seen where they allegedly channeled money to the US Chamber of Commerce to fight the ACA. However, they have just been given a limitless and neverending revenue supply. There are not many other industries that have that guarantee.
I’ve carried coverage for a long time, and with my little one, I’ll continue to carry coverage. I’ll be happy once either party or the industry does something to get costs under control.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
4:24 pm
“Premiums aren’t going down but you are going to add another 16% or so to that number over the next few years.”
JDW, you, like that moron refute this, keep thinking in terms of today, and not the future.
Today’s premiums do not matter. They are GONE. Tomorrow’s premiums are going to tank for two reasons. First, as was described ad nausem, employers are gong to DROP coverage for employees and simply pay the fine. No more coverage = no more revenues for private insurance companies. Next, government will not be providing sufficient additional covered Americans to make up the difference to the private insurance companies (if they exist at all after this gets implemented) nor will any incentives to buy insurance make up the difference.
Finally, Medicare is already going broke. But the only alternative for government is to add people who aren’t covered or who are mandated to be covered into that failing program, which will simply increase our deficits and debt exponentially.
Again, you do not understand cause and effect. The revenue model you are relying on today is NOT the model that will be around in less than 2 years.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
June 28th, 2012
4:26 pm
This Election Just Became About Obamacare
And what is to like about it?
buh bye obozo
Capt run on sentence
June 28th, 2012
4:28 pm
@ Blue Moon
Suggesting people that think you should either have health insurance or sign a waiver that says you won’t get government assistance if don’t makes you a liberal makes you look like you really don’t know what liberalism is .
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
4:30 pm
“because each one of us at some point in our lifetime will visit the hospital.”
Really, jay o?
Tell me, when was the last time I went to a hospital, genius?
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
4:34 pm
The Romney campaign is saying they’ve received over $1 million in online donations since this ruling was announced.
File that under “Be careful what you wish for” libs.
The last thing you wanted was an energized electorate.
But you got it.
Hank Reardon
June 28th, 2012
4:39 pm
Those who deny reason can’t be conquered by it. Oh you poor sheeple.
common sense
June 28th, 2012
4:39 pm
Enter your comments here
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
4:42 pm
Well, if you’re looking for any sign of bi-partisanship in Washington, the House just voted to hold Atty. Gen. Holder in contempt of Congress.
17 Democrats voted with House Republicans to do so, which is about 10% of the total Democrat representation in the House.
Over 100 Democrats walked out on the vote and failed to once again uphold their oath of office.
Tom(Independent-Viet Vet-USAF)
June 28th, 2012
4:42 pm
Those 3 women on the Supreme Court should all be working for Legal Aid or the ACLU?
Tiberious, Refute this
June 28th, 2012
4:43 pm
You engage in speculation calling it fact, seem completely incapable of logical thought and run around like chicken little screeching “the sky is falling, the sky is falling” and JDW and I are the morons?
Well, if the definition of moron is one the opposite of you, I’ll take a picture and buy the shirt.
LET ALL THE WORLD KNOW AND TAKE HEED, WHEN DEFINED BY TIBERIUS, I AM A MORON!!!
Anything to not be like you.
retiredds
June 28th, 2012
4:45 pm
Tiberius: the one million is a drop in the bucket. The 5+ conservative billionaires will contribute the billion+ that’s needed. And if Romney gets in they will call in their cards. You can bet on that one.
Mickey
June 28th, 2012
4:45 pm
I can’t help but wonder if Chief Justice Roberts upheld the Affordable Care Act as a subtle hit against Obama’s reelection campaign. After all, this is a HUGE win for Romney’s campaign as far as a great talking point to boot Obama out of office in November. And let’s not forget that in 2005 Obama voted against confirming Roberts as chief justice.
GFY
June 28th, 2012
4:55 pm
AmVet:
Did you approve of China’s former one child only policy? Did you cry when mother’s were forced to abort their babies?
bikerchick
June 28th, 2012
4:57 pm
So using that logic, the government can “tax” us for not doing a variety of things, such as using a particular type of currency, exercising, driving a particular type of motorized vehicle, using a particular type of cell phone, allowing the government to track your movements with a GPS device, not registering our guns, etc., etc., etc. If the “tax” is collected by the government and we don’t pay it, then they can take our property, real estate, vehicles, bank accounts, etc. and garnish our wages in order to pay the “tax”. Individual freedoms were just stripped from us folks. Prepare for the onslaught of government edicts on what is “good for all of us” and will be “taxed” for those who choose not to participate.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 28th, 2012
5:02 pm
retiredds, you miss the point (as usual).
It shows an energized electorate that probably hasn’t contributed before.
Middle of the Road
June 28th, 2012
5:04 pm
All sorts of theories about Roberts… It was a backwards way of undermining Congress’ power via the Commerce Clause. It was his way of keeping SCOTUS relevant. It was a devious way of helping Romney win the general election. I’d like to think that Roberts made his decision because deep down he grudgingly felt it was the right thing to do. After all, years from now they won’t be calling this the Scalia Court or the Alito Court or the Kagan Court.
common sense
June 28th, 2012
5:10 pm
So this precedent could mean that the government can force us to buy (tax) a electric car because it is “good” for the enviornment therefore for the American people .We must buy solar panels to “help” keep the nations electrical grid operating. We must start a compost pile because the nations dumps are “too” full without the dumps it would harm the health of Americans. All citizens must wear sunscreen outside becuase it “prevents” the nations health care costs from rising. All citizens must weigh in monthly becauase after all obesity is a major cause of health problems ,theerby affecting the governments health costs as they seek to “trim” the budget deficit!
Can’t happen? Did you envision a year ago that a city (NYC) can mandate what size drink you can or cannot buy?
Ted
June 28th, 2012
5:48 pm
I love how the SCOTUS ruling took the smiles off of all of the Republicans’ faces! You all are so full of anger and hate that you can’t se straight. What a pitiful, misguided, lot you right wingers are, constantly voting against your own interests, whether it’s the environment, jobs, etc. Poor white people have more in common with poor black people than they do with Mitt Romney. As a white, middle-class male, I have more in common with middle-class black people and President Obama. President Obama has my best interests at heart.
Nameless
June 28th, 2012
5:57 pm
I fully expect every large employer currently offering health insurance to its employees to immediately begin rescinding that benefit tossing the obligation to the employee and our government. Even if they pay a fine for doing so it will be less than the % paid toward an employee’s insurance and will allow every business to do away with a large portion of administrative personnel whose job it is to coordinate benefits. No salary increases will be made available to compensate the employee for the lost benefit but this new tax will cut into every middle class worker’s take home pay.
SavageNation
June 28th, 2012
6:53 pm
The LEFT has just had the BIGGEST FRAUD pulled on them in the history of modern LIBERALISM!
SINGLE PAYER HEALTHCARE: DEAD FOREVER
ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE: DEAD ON ARRIVAL
INTEGRATED MEDICINE: YOU SAY POTATO, THEY’LL SAY POTATO
COMPULSORY, IRS ENFORCED MONETARY PAYMENTS TO MULTINATIONAL INSURERS & Big PHARMA pushing WESTERN Drug, Cut, Burn & Poison Medicine!
PRICELESS…
independent thinker
June 28th, 2012
7:20 pm
What it means now and in the future:
1. Another huge victory for Obama in which he got the biggest controversial piece of legislation through Congress since the Civil Rights Act and got it approved by The SCOTUS;
2. Killed numerous terrorists including Ben Laden making the USW safer and making George W. and madman Cheney look like wimps;
3. Together with NATO overthrew one of the worst supporters of terrorism and airplane mayhem- Quadaffi without losing any US lives;
4. Resurrected the American Auto industry;
5. Kept the US from going into a depression after the worst depression since the thirties was
his gift from George W.;
6. Put the State of Arizona in its place for usurping federal powers;
7. Ended the insane war in Iraq as promised;
8. Made all the Republicans look like fools today.
Aside from that I am waiting to hear about equal presidential type accomplishments of Willard.
Mike
June 28th, 2012
7:25 pm
The wildcard here are the illegals. If the system doesn’t have the backbone to turn these law-breakers away, or deport them after treatment, healthcare in America will be diluted to a low quality, assembly line where people sit in waiting rooms for many hours to see a doctor.
jim blake
June 28th, 2012
8:18 pm
If a person doesn’t have health insurance and he or she pays the imposed tax. Is that person then covered by the insurance he just payed a tax on. If that be the truth, then this is not a tax but a requirement to buy something that you might otherwise not want.
not telling
June 28th, 2012
8:47 pm
screw the Dems.
Craig Eliot
June 28th, 2012
9:32 pm
The problem is that over the twenty years the US has imported some thirty-million poor people who have to be taken care of. And there is no let up to the madness yet; if the are legalized, they will have their mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, aunts, uncles, etc. etc. etc. coming too. And then? For the sake of cheaper oranges and kitchen help, a country is committing suicide. Well, then again: a country only gets the kind of government and future it deserves.
NB
June 28th, 2012
10:17 pm
Pat yourself on the back for voting and supporting more taxes. Maybe once the economy gets worst you can also dig that coffin or hole you all supported???
P
June 28th, 2012
11:18 pm
How do you think this plan is going to be paid for? Did you know that there is provision in the law that states that when you sell your home there will be a new government tax due? What does homeownership have to do with health care?
From UrbanLegends:
the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 imposes a 3.8% sales tax on all real estate transactions.
It doesn’t. Here’s the real scoop, based on the best analyses I can find:
Among the several new taxes and tax increases provided for in the final legislation (see Kiplinger for a concise summary) is a 3.8% tax on investment income for “high earners” only. Revenues from the tax, which goes into effect in 2013, will be dedicated to the Medicare Trust Fund.
“High earners” are defined as individuals whose gross income is $200,000 or more, or married couples filing jointly with a combined gross income of $250,000 or more.
Moreover, the tax doesn’t apply to the first $250,000 of unearned income for individual taxpayers (or $500,000 for married couples filing jointly).
Given that most taxpayers make less than $200,000 per year and most home sales don’t clear profits exceeding $200,000, the vast majority of Americans won’t be subject to this tax.
Really!! A 3.8% tax on the sale of your home to pay for Obama Care? Something is wrong with this — as if the housing market isn’t already hurting.
Tim
June 29th, 2012
12:36 am
Enter your comments hereWhat about the 3% tax you will pay when you sell your home? Doesn’t this go to Obamacare? Sorry that our Supreme Court let America down, “or Judge Roberts” rather.
Claire Alexander
June 29th, 2012
7:45 am
Listen up people, you’re missing the larger implications of the ruling. It has opened the door, very widely, to new federal taxes. This administration seems determined to follow in socialist Europe’s footsteps. “Green energy” projects, socialized medicine, cradle to grave security and open borders are all ideas imported from Europe. There is also the VAT, the value added tax, which is very popular with all the European governments. We can expect that here next as the new sensible way to fund all our new big government programs. Chief Justice Roberts has just ruled there is no limit to the federal governments ability to tax. It won’t take Democrats long to realize he has just made it possible for them to pass the VAT. Next up, look for a financial services tax, another tax popular with the European governments. Of course they will drag out that tired old carbon tax and give it new life. Vote Republican and save your country.
Just saying..
June 29th, 2012
11:16 am
Mickey June 28th, 2012/4:45 pm: “I can’t help but wonder if Chief Justice Roberts upheld the Affordable Care Act as a subtle hit against Obama’s reelection campaign. After all, this is a HUGE win for Romney’s campaign as far as a great talking point to boot Obama out of office in November….”
Tortured Logic, meet Mickey.
gLENN
June 29th, 2012
11:47 am
@ Craig Elliot
The problem now is that those same 30 million people that come in the country get medicaid . They need to purchase insurance . We don’t need to be footing their bill anymore ……..and how is that thinking liberal ?
RUSH LIMBAUGH: ‘WE NOW HAVE THE BIGGEST ‘TAX’ INCREASE IN HISTORY OF THE WORLD’… - Tampa 2012 GOP
June 29th, 2012
12:02 pm
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Obamacare found to be the Single Largest Tax Increase in World History | The Guardian Express
June 29th, 2012
1:23 pm
[...] Atlanta Journal-Constitution: Obamacare Upheld – As the Tax Obama Promised Us It Wasn’t [...]
Obamacare found to be the single largest tax increase in world history | The Guardian Express
June 29th, 2012
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[...] Atlanta Journal-Constitution: Obamacare Upheld – As the Tax Obama Promised Us It Wasn’t [...]
Jerry Ballew
July 2nd, 2012
6:40 pm
Tax, schmax. The bill passed and it’s a first step to “the pursuit of happiness” for all citizen’s health. Everyone should pay their share and “freeloaders” that show up empty handed at the emergency room gets taxed by an entity that they can’t run from unless they leave the country.