Is high-speed rail really feasible for Georgia?
The Georgia DOT recently declared “feasible” three passenger-rail routes from Atlanta to other Southern cities: a straight shot to Birmingham; a line to Louisville via Nashville; and a line to Jacksonville via Savannah. While these plans do not directly relate to the T-SPLOST, they are very relevant to the multimodal transit hub planned for “The Gulch” in downtown Atlanta. But how feasible are these routes, really?
I’ll not comment today on the cost and ridership estimates, except to say the former are almost always too low and the latter almost always too high. What I want to examine is whether the routes are likely to be attractive to passengers at the prices DOT projects for each.
First, a brief detour to Europe. The Old Continent’s high-speed rail system is the aspiration of many an American train fanatic, and I’m quite familiar with it from my time living there. In 4.5 years I traveled from Brussels to London maybe a dozen times and to Paris seven or eight times — always by train. I never even considered flying (or driving, for that matter) because the train was:
- cheaper: a search Tuesday of fares two months from now found it was about $150 less expensive to go to London by train than by air; for Paris, the train was almost $700 cheaper;
- faster: allowing for 90 minutes at the airport (to cover both check-in and deplaning) vs. 30 minutes at train stations, it’s 15 minutes faster to get to London by train than by plane; for Paris, the train saves you more than half an hour;
- more convenient: train stations are generally closer to downtowns than airports are, and European train schedules often allow for as many or more departure times as airlines’ timetables do.
So, would high-speed rail from Atlanta to nearby cities be as attractive for passengers?
The GDOT study estimated only ticket prices, not travel times — although we can take some guesses at times based on distances and possible speeds. The tables below show the lowest nonstop, round-trip airfares I could find for each city pairing, for a long weekend two months from now, compared to the midpoint of GDOT’s estimated prices for a round-trip. To calculate the one-way travel times, I used the average speeds, including stops, for: Amtrak’s Acela line in the Northeast corridor (70 mph); the Eurostar train from Brussels to London (117 mph); and the Thalys train from Brussels to Paris (146 mph). It is highly unlikely we would see trains exceeding those average speeds in these three corridors — and remember: the faster the maximum speeds, the higher the capital costs. Then I added 90 minutes to the air travel times and 30 minutes to the rail travel times, as described above, to account for the time spent in the airports or train stations.
With those explanations, here’s what we get (best options are in bold-face):
As you can see, with the exception of Atlanta-Birmingham, the situation is almost opposite that in Europe. (I would note that the current Amtrak service from Atlanta to Birmingham, while even cheaper at $74 round-trip, takes a whopping 282 minutes each way.)
For the latter two routes, air travel is at least as cheap and fast as rail could hope to be. One caveat is that these timetables do not factor in travel time to the airport vs. a train station, because that would be different for each traveler. For a number of people, getting to and from a train station faster could offset some of the time advantage for air travel.
Of course, it’s one thing to buy a plane ticket or a train ticket — and something different altogether if driving is an option. For each of the above tables, driving would be roughly equivalent to rail with an average speed of 70 mph and much slower than rail at the higher speeds. But price would be very different: Even at $4/gallon for gasoline (in a car that gets 25 mpg), you’re talking about spending just $48 round-trip to Birmingham, $118 to Jacksonville, and $134 to Louisville. And that price covers everyone who can fit in the car, whereas each passenger would need their own ticket for air or rail travel. A family of four probably wouldn’t even consider spending more than $1,000 to take the train to Jacksonville when it could spend $118 on gas — and have their car with them, making it easier to get around once they’ve arrived.
There wouldn’t appear to be much flexibility for adjusting the rail prices. At those prices, and given GDOT’s ridership projections for 2020 through 2040, each line would just cover its estimated annual operations and maintenance costs. Given that the cost estimates are probably on the low side, and the ridership projections on the high side, it’s more likely the train fares would have to be higher just to break even. And by “break even,” I am not even talking about covering the tens of billions of dollars in capital costs for the three routes — this, at a time when we are having a major debate about how to allocate the $7.2 billion the T-SPLOST could raise for transportation.
Perhaps shorter segments of the proposed routes — maybe Atlanta to Nashville instead of Louisville, or to Savannah instead of Jacksonville — would be more competitive with air or auto travel. Given the foregoing, however, it’s hard to imagine high-speed rail being a wise use of our limited transportation dollars.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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360 comments Add your comment
iggy
June 27th, 2012
1:48 pm
If we construct this money losing debacle how will it affect the other money losing debacle, Amtrak. Will we now have high speed and low speed rail operations and their accompanying annual debt, cost overruns, mis-management, employee pilferages etc?
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 27th, 2012
1:49 pm
The next person who tries to drag me anywhere against my will will be the one doing the screaming, JDW.
iggy
June 27th, 2012
1:52 pm
This high speed rail, pie in the sky idea is not unlike, Marta, the beltline, trolleys. Just another govt jobs program.
tiredofIT
June 27th, 2012
1:54 pm
“The one thing you have NEVER cared about is the size of government”
Whatever you say? You seem to know everything. Why don’t replace Romney? At least you do have an opinion.
AmVet
June 27th, 2012
1:56 pm
Speaking of fast food, how many Triple Whoppers and Super-Sized fries have you stuffed into yoru face lately, porcine Dusty?
Lemme guess, oh large one. You get them with a Diet Coke…
iggy
June 27th, 2012
2:03 pm
What we need is for the Grand Poobah, Big Daddy-O to release more billions and billions of stimulus funds.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 27th, 2012
2:03 pm
iggy
June 27th, 2012
1:35 pm
{{”Face it. Living in a metropolitan area comes with congestion. The only way to resolve these congestion issues is to move to rural areas or a massive metro area population decrease.”}}
You are very correct that living in a major metropolitan area/population center comes with congestion.
However, there are better ways for highly-populated area to resolve its congestion issues such as adequately and properly investing in a multimodal transportation infrastructure that is funded with distance-based user fees (like adequately-priced fares on transit lines and tolls on major roads) as opposed to never-ending tax increases which are very-limited in what they are able to fund no matter how high they are raised.
User fees have a much higher rate of return and are capable of funding a heckuva lot more of our pressing transportation infrastructure needs than tax increases from which only a very-limited amount of revenue can extracted, anyway.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 27th, 2012
2:20 pm
Rail fan
June 27th, 2012
1:45 pm
{{”If someone told you Atlanta was going to be 10 million people, Charlotte will be 5 million, and Nashville 5 million, and Jacksonville a city of 4 million, people might start to think about this differently. You’ve got critical masses there, and the airports and roads can’t handle all the volume…”}}
{{…”Or do we want to just accept third rate, under-scaled, infrastructure?}}
Your comments raise a make a valid point, which is that is all of these seemingly endless discussions about upgrading Georgia’s (Metro Atlanta’s) lagging transportation infrastructure, the emphasis only seems to be slightly bringing the transportation infrastructure, which was meant only to accommodate up to about 3.5 million residents tops, almost up to date to so that it will be able to possibly accommodate the transportation needs of 4.5 million of the Atlanta Region’s 6 million residents, as opposed to planning to accommodate the transportation needs of additional residents and future population and economic growth like the 10 million number that you mentioned.
The local mindset seems to be a dogged determination to run-off and depress population growth or even push the area into a population decline instead of planning to accommodate future growth, a mindset that seems to be unique to Metro Atlanta amongst major Sunbelt population centers as there is no way that one would hear that kind of talk in North Carolina, where there is a multi-billion effort underway to vastly expand the Interstate System with the ongoing construction of new three-digit Interstate loops and bypasses around many of the state’s key cities (I-485 around Charlotte, I-540 around Raleigh, I-840 around Greensboro, a new I-40 & I-274 around Winston-Salem, I-295 around Fayetteville, a new I-85 through Central North Carolina, etc) to both improve traffic flow and improve the economic development prospects of many of the state’s smaller and mid-sized cities.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 27th, 2012
2:28 pm
First steps in dealing with the congestion (that no one ever discusses)
1. Close the borders
2. Since our water resources are limited, limit the growth by requiring zoning which requires future homes to be built on half acre or more.
3. Disperse State and Federal Gov agencies closer to the people they serve rather than have them concentrated.
4. Downsize these mega schools into more neighborhood sized institutions.
5. Require all retail establishments to pay for road improvements and sidewalks necessary for new construction. Ease some zoning to allow for retail in more areas closer to neighborhoods.
6. Find incentives for telecommuting.
7. Eliminate “meetings” and “conferences” through promotion and education. Almost everyone who ever attended one, knows they don’t accomplish much, but bosses like them, so we have a plethora. Video/teleconferences are just as effective, with much less time and expense involved.
The world might be better if we concentrated on low cost alternatives rather than the usual Lib tactic of throw more money at the problem and hope it is at least partially successful.
A Realist
June 27th, 2012
2:31 pm
…and the only constant is change.
If one expects things to digress to the mythical ‘good old days’, or just stay the same, one is destined for serious disappointment.
Hey, maybe that’s the problem with those with their cranium stuck in dark places…
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 27th, 2012
2:39 pm
Last Democrat
key cities (I-485 around Charlotte, I-540 around Raleigh, I-840 around Greensboro, a new I-40 & I-274 around Winston-Salem, I-295 around Fayetteville, a new I-85 through Central North Carolina, etc) to both improve traffic flow and improve the
All interstates I see, our federal dollars at work. Why do the NC folk get credit for money spent on interstates. The Feds don’t seem to be spending any of interstates in GA. This shows no great plan for congestion developed by the NC folk, they are just lucky the feds are trying to improve the interstate systems.
If Charlotte wants to grow, more power to them anyway, we have been there and done that. Bigger is not always better, just ask anyone who lived here in the 70’s, when we had a manageable size town and we took advantage of all the metro’s attractions, restaurants, and natural resources. Now it is so congested, no one in NW Metro wants to even think of trying to get to Stone Mountain Park and vice versa.
Road Scholar
June 27th, 2012
2:41 pm
Dusty: Sorry, had to cut the grass! My typo…their target year was 2020 not 2010. They delivered 8 yrs ahead of the goal year. They did it by letting people figure out how THEY could participate and they placed solar panels on barns, homes, building roofs, fields, etc. The panels in the fields allowed cows and livestock to graze amongst the panels. They were in rows with enough room for a hay baler to go between the rows of panels and their foundations also. A farmer rcd a loan from a bank to pay for the panels installation ( don’t know if the government backed the loan), and then ran his farm from the electricity produced (saving on their electric bill) and sold back to the power company the excess electricity. His first year his income from the electricity was about …get this…$700,000. He was paying off the loan as he went along.
The government challenged the people to get involved with how they could benefit. Now this was done with some folks having a dislike for the appearance of some of the panels, esp in villages, but it was a success none the less. Don’t know how they actually got this past the NIMBY’S and the BANANA’s, but the nationalism to reduce foreign fuels influence was the motivation behind the program.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 27th, 2012
2:44 pm
…and the only constant is change.
Did you borrow that line from Oblamer. Many knew then, and have been proven right by his actions, that not all change is good.
I prefer just the good change or the status quo.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 27th, 2012
2:48 pm
The type of very-counterproductive anti-infrastructure mindset that seems to be very prevalent in Metro Atlanta and Georgia is also very hard to find in Texas where the state is continuing to execute a very ambitious long-term strategy of investment in transportation and water infrastructure that includes the construction of a dozen new toll roads and the recent widening of the I-10 West/Katy Freeway to as many as 26 lanes in some places in Houston, the construction of a network of public-private toll roads around Austin and the construction of six new toll roads, 130 miles of rail transit lines (light rail and commuter rail lines) and two-dozen manmade locally-controlled reservoirs for flood control and water supply in the Dallas-Fort Worth/North Texas Region.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 27th, 2012
2:48 pm
Road
Nice story, but America has a better option than this visual pollution and inefficient solar energy, cheap natural gas. Seems no one here, except Boone Pickens, is committed to developing our natural gas resources, so solar panels are not going anywhere in America anytime soon.
Road Scholar
June 27th, 2012
2:51 pm
Rafe: get elected President…or czar if you only want positive change you agree with. Oh and have the congress in your pocket. Change is change and it is accelerating. Good decision making and planning determines how good change exceeds bad change. The status quo is a bygone dream. Get over it. You do not and can not control all the variables that affect change.
AmVet
June 27th, 2012
2:52 pm
The use of solar energy has not been opened up because the oil industry does not own the sun. ~Ralph Nader
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 27th, 2012
2:53 pm
Last Democrat
You are right, Texas is a phenomena and should be an example for the rest of the states, but other states are not willing to trust the private sector economy like Texas does. No state income tax, few regulations on industry, and an environment that boosts private initiative, rather than handicap it.
My daughter lives there and it is amazing the retail success and boom all over Texas, but as long as we have one political party trying to put government in charge of the economy, Texas is probably going to remain the exception rather than the rule.
Road Scholar
June 27th, 2012
2:56 pm
Rafe: did you see T Boone on Fox Sunday this past Sunday? He said the natural gas affect into the economy is being stopped by the Coen Bros because they want it all for their industries (fertilizers, etc.). You wouldn’t think that they would try to influence politicians and the decision makers, would you? Why not develop both? Both are virtually pollution free!
md
June 27th, 2012
2:57 pm
“Apparently md has never heard of the FAA, the Federal Air Transportation Stabilization Board, airport financing, Air Marshals, federal subsidies for airline pensions, tax exemptions for fuel…..well, I could go on, but since the LALALA WUT SUBSIDIES? will continue, it’s pointless.”
Of course we’ve heard of them…..those that actually pay taxes fund them……the rest of the funding comes from usage fees charged by the airlines…….ever heard of landing fees, lease fees, ticket surcharges, etc etc……all paid by the passenger.
Jefferson
June 27th, 2012
2:58 pm
Texas is in bad shape, dude.
The Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers
June 27th, 2012
3:00 pm
Dbaj
June 27th, 2012
6:20 am
Kyle, One thing that makes train travel in Europe easier is that when you get to your destination, the public transit systems are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better over there than here. If you ride the train here, you would very likely still have to rent a car to get around where over there, you just get on the subway or bus and go where you want.
Spot on assessment. Most people would rather drive the couple hours and not rent a car when they get there.
itpdude
June 27th, 2012
3:03 pm
We should continue building more and more and more roads for cars. Because that’s been working pretty darn good!
md
June 27th, 2012
3:04 pm
“The use of solar energy has not been opened up because the oil industry does not own the sun.”
Merely simplistic tripe
If the history of private enterprise tells us anything, it tells us if there is money to be made folks would be making it. The above quote makes no sense…….if there is as much money in solar as there is in oil, the solar moguls wouldn’t give a flip about the oil moguls…………
JDW
June 27th, 2012
3:07 pm
@Tiberuis…”The next person who tries to drag me anywhere against my will will be the one doing the screaming”
Why you already are screaming…we are moving into the future and you are pining for “The Good Ole Days” on this blog every day. Your will is irrelevant, we are going and as long as you are on this side of the daisies you get the benefits.
Soon enough the Party of No will be in the rear view mirror and we will be able to move faster. Hope you enjoy the ride.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 27th, 2012
3:08 pm
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer’s ineptocracy
June 27th, 2012
2:39 pm
The construction of those new segments of Interstate Highway in North Carolina were not just paid for with Federal funds, they were also paid for with matching funds that the state of North Carolina was willing to come up with to get those new roads built.
The state of North Carolina is also utilizing user fees in the form of tolls to complete the remaining sections of the expressways that may have run short on federal funding and local funding with the remaining sections of NC 540/Western Wake Parkway/Triangle Expressway being completed with toll financing.
North Carolina also had an advantage of not having restrictions placed upon their roadbuilding funds due to non-attainment of air quality standards like Metro Atlanta did as none of their principal metro areas are as large as Atlanta is in Georgia with their largest metro, Charlotte, only being one-third of the size and population of Metro Atlanta meaning that NC’s mulitple smaller metros don’t put out as much air pollution as the much-larger Metro Atlanta does alone.
And its not just Charlotte that wants to grow in North Carolina, it’s the entire Interstate 85-anchored Piedmont Region (which includes Charlotte, Winston Salem-Greensboro and Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill-Cary) that wants to grow.
I know that Atlanta was seemingly a much more desirable and much more manageable town back in the 1970’s, but we can’t handle our overcrowding problems by intentionally running away population growth because when we do that we run away economic growth and we will pay dearly for it in the long run by becoming an overpopulated burg that resembles a Southern version of Detroit with a depressed and declining quality-of-life and an increasing high crime rate (even higher than now) because six million people don’t just leave an area overnight, they leave slowly, many of them resorting to crime here in an economically-depressed town before they finally decide to leave and become some other cities’ problem.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 27th, 2012
3:09 pm
Road
The Koch brothers, the liberal bogeymen, yeah, I heard him. I’m sure they are involved as he said, but so are the environmentalist, who think any carbon freeing is bad. They have influenced Oblamer to oppose maximizing our natural gas reserves. The problem with solar panels is the batteries to store the power are not efficient cost wise and size wise yet. The panels have not been perfected either, i.e. Solyndra. It also takes a tremendous footprint to place enough panels, so that it becomes a visual eyesore. Cities in Western States have taken up dozens of acres trying to place enough panels to get enough juice to power anything of substance. They have the footprint (desert), do you know of anyplace in Georgia willing to give up dozens of acres to solar panels. I could just hear the uproar if we took up the side of some south facing mountain in North GA with solar panels.
Always Skeptical
June 27th, 2012
3:12 pm
The problems with American solutions to rail travel is that politically we have been forced to offer stops in too many towns that don’t matter. Amtrak already has a solution that they should expand nationwide. It’s the Autotrain. I hear it’s increasing ridership and making more money…even during the recesson. It’s also the only line of it’s type in the US. For 650 bucks, I took my family of 3 INCLUDING our loaded down car 900 miles from Washington DC to Orlando Fl. We moved while we slept in our cabin…non-stop. Dinner and breakfast were provided and I was able to keep my car and arrive well rested. I can drive to Nashville or Birmingham without a problem, I don’t need high speed rail there. What we need in Atlanta is an Autotrain hub that would get us non-stop to Central Florida, Chicago, Washington DC. They should build Autotrain hubs around cities that are big air hubs and forget the rest. If I could put my car on a train and travel to LA or Seattle in addition to the other cities I mentioned, I’d use Autotrain everywhere.
md
June 27th, 2012
3:14 pm
And I’ll ask you again Aqua……do you ever do any further research on the stuff you post??
Airline pensions are funded through PBGC…..which is a gov’t agency that gets it’s funding through user premiums…..there are zero tax dollars involved.
If you have a problem with so called “subsidies”, why don’t you research the subsidy to find more about who is paying for what vs just willy nilly throwing stuff out there and making yourself look silly.
You obviously have access to a computer…..use it.
Dr. Pangloss
June 27th, 2012
3:14 pm
Conservatives: because everything new is bad.
RetiredGuy
June 27th, 2012
3:14 pm
We should have a high speed, dedicated line from Miami to Jacksonville, to Atlanta to Chicago.
And I don’t mean high speed is 115 MPH. Europe has lines throughout the European countries that run over 200 MPH. Why is America so backward?
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 27th, 2012
3:18 pm
Here is a look at what one of Atlanta’s direct economic competitors, Dallas, is doing to ensure their long-term economic prospects and viability through continued massive investments in their water and mulitmodal transportation infrastructures (rail, bus, toll roads, toll lanes, expressway reconstruction, etc).
Here is a link to a map of 16 new reservoirs proposed to be built in the State of Texas that will add to the state’s already abundant existing man-made water supply, an existing man-made water supply that is likely more than abundant with the proper water conservation measures, which despite the tendency throughout much of Texas towards extended dry spells, water conservation still is not necessarily all that popular of a concept as it should be in Texas, both socially and politically.
http://www.texaswatermatters.org/projects/save/SWRM2_2007-SWP-damsA.jpg
Here is a link to a map of the current and future Dallas area rail transit network (DART light rail, TRE commuter rail and DCTA commuter rail) through 2014:
http://www.dart.org/maps/currentandfutureservicesmap.asp
Here is a link that displays existing toll roads in the Dallas Region (Dallas has 90 miles of tollways compared to only 2.5 miles of tollways in Atlanta, not counting the I-85 HOT lanes):
https://www.ntta.org/roadsprojects/existroad/Pages/default.aspx
Here is a link to a page that displays the toll roads currently under construction in the Greater Dallas-Fort Worth Region:
https://www.ntta.org/roadsprojects/projprog/Pages/default.aspx
Here is a link to a page that displays the proposed future toll roads currently in the planning and development stage in the Dallas-Fort Worth Region:
https://www.ntta.org/roadsprojects/futproj/Pages/default.aspx
Here are some links to the Interstate 635 LBJ Express Project in which the I-635 North Loop (which is Dallas equivalent to Atlanta’s I-285 Top End Perimeter) will be reconstructed to include up to 13 miles of new express managed lanes, much of which will be depressed UNDER the existing untolled lanes for several miles of double-decked freeway across the Northside of Dallas:
http://www.lbjexpress.com/overview.asp
http://www.lbjexpress.com/about.asp
And here is a link to a video that illustrates Dallas’ plans to effectively double-deck one of their busiest stretches of freeway by basically running the new managed lanes underneath the existing untolled lanes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMc-ZPWo2nQ
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 27th, 2012
3:19 pm
If we could get high speed rail between Marietta and Club La Vela in Panama City, we’d really have something.
AmVet
June 27th, 2012
3:20 pm
md, you don’t know what you are talking about.
But that has never stopped you from opining on everything under the sun (get it?!) before!
BIG Oil has fought tooth and nail – for decades – any advances in competing technology. This is common knowledge. At least for those interested enough to have informed themselves.
And with pollution loving, science hating, globally cooled Republicans like the Bushbots – even going back as far as Ronnie removing solar arrays from the White House roof – is it any wonder?
Hell, Mr. BIG oil, you want billions every decade in handouts, subsidies, giveaways of the people’s natural resources and assets? And a slap on the wrist when you wreck ungodly environmental damage of American property?
No problem. Just fund my campaign.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 27th, 2012
3:21 pm
Last Dem
Yeah, I agree that if you are not growing, you are dying, however, unplanned rampant growth is a cancer.
There are other just as important reasons for growth than congestion. Texas has horrible congestion, yet it continues to grow. It has limited water resources and a harsh climate. Why does Texas grow, a strong environment to do business, starting with low taxes. Georgia has many positives like good climate, transportation hub, good geographical location close to beaches and mountains, and above average rainfall. We will continue to grow, without adding trains to nowhere anyone wants to go, and inspite of our congestion.
md
June 27th, 2012
3:22 pm
“but we can’t handle our overcrowding problems by intentionally running away population growth because when we do that we run away economic growth and we will pay dearly for it in the long run by becoming an overpopulated burg that resembles a Southern version of Detroit with a depressed and declining quality-of-life and an increasing high crime rate (even higher than now) because six million people don’t just leave an area overnight, they leave slowly, many of them resorting to crime here in an economically-depressed town before they finally decide to leave and become some other cities’ problem.”
Too late………the process started several years ago…….hence the buildup of the Charlottes of the region. My entire family pulled up stakes and headed elsewhere as did many of my neighbors and co-workers……life is too short to reduce one’s quality of life in the too big city. (But I’m sure for every me there are some that love all the hectic masses)
md
June 27th, 2012
3:26 pm
“BIG Oil has fought tooth and nail – for decades – any advances in competing technology. This is common knowledge. At least for those interested enough to have informed themselves.”
So??
Has that stopped the natural gas industry from pushing into frakking and discovering huge quantities of natural gas?? Did they give a hoot about the demise of the coal industry in the process??
Shoot no…….if the money is in solar, they won’t give a rats patooty about cutting into Big Oils profits……..
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 27th, 2012
3:26 pm
Libtards: Because everything that makes government bigger is good.
See how two can play your silly game?
md
June 27th, 2012
3:27 pm
“At least for those interested enough to have informed themselves.”
So I take it you finally informed yourself about the direct relationship between trade imbalance and real wages then??
No artificial flavors
June 27th, 2012
3:28 pm
@Rafe,
There is a private company setting up a solar farm on many acres in Walton County near Social Circle. Check it out….
http://waltontribune.com/news/article_0403a748-30b4-11e1-b501-0019bb2963f4.html
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 27th, 2012
3:28 pm
If lack of congestion was a panacea for growth, Plains, GA would be growing at astronomical rates. Last time I was through there, everything, including the Welcome Center, was closing.
Eugene
June 27th, 2012
3:29 pm
I would love to ride and dine on a train that only transported me from my hometown to and from some faraway high school, college or professional football event on Game Day in Athens, Atlanta, or some other Georgia Sports Town or to that once in a life-time concert in Atlanta, Savannah, Macon, etc. I have always thought that a good place to re-start Georgia’s statewide passenger railroad transportation system would be with demonstration projects such as to sporting events, concerts, educational activities.
For example: Beginning with the assumption that existing trains and railway lines are under-utilized because many of today’s commuters have never experienced the comfort and all of the amenities that were offered by all passenger trains in America.
A Realist
June 27th, 2012
3:31 pm
Rafe,
Way back – probably before you were born, there was a book by Alvin Toffler called Future Shock.
You might want to find a copy and give it a read.
Let me know when you’re done….
md
June 27th, 2012
3:31 pm
For Am….again:
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/tdrc/hearings/09sept99/rscott.pdf
Inform yourself………..
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 27th, 2012
3:37 pm
No artifical flavors
Get back to me when it is up and running. I will not hold my breath. A guy up here in Gordon Co was going on line last year with his. Haven’t heard a word yet about it being up and running, not sure he is still working on it. Hope it works, I have some underutilized land in S GA. The truth is that this one is going to cost 85 million bucks and take up 205 acres, so you have the loss of income from what the land could otherwise be producing.
A couple of GE’s natural gas fired generators could produce as much electricity and save him 80 million dollars and 204 acres of land.
md
June 27th, 2012
3:41 pm
“Stockton, California, said it will file for bankruptcy after talks with bondholders and labor unions failed, making the agricultural center the biggest U.S. city to seek court protection from creditors. ”
Public sector unions holding the taxpayer hostage……and the taxpayer says screw you…….
Hillbilly D
June 27th, 2012
3:44 pm
I’m still trying to figure out why I’d WANT to go to Birmingham in the first place.
Perhaps you’d want to take in the Rickwood Classic, played at Rickwood Field, the oldest ball park in the U.S., still in use. Yes, it’s older than Fenway.
nmonroe25
June 27th, 2012
3:52 pm
Kyle, great piece, but I steadfastly question whether rail is cheaper than air in Europe. Main line air service maybe, but Ryan Air is dirt cheap and other discount airlines are gaining a foothold.
Also, no one ever takes into account the number of point to point travelers between cities when saying rail would or would not work. There are thousands of point to point travelers each day between Paris and London, or Brussels and Paris.
Between Louisville and Atlanta? Doubtful it is more than 500 – even including cars. (US DOT has that kind of info). So what would possibly justify the tens of billions necessary to create these trains?
Nothing.
Hartsfield has massive capacity for additional local traffic (the base service is there; as local traffic grows, airlines can and will easily manage the connecting flow, leaving the level of service intact as local traffic grows.)
Trains are nothing but 19th centunry technology being applied to 21st century problems, regardless of how fast they go.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 27th, 2012
4:02 pm
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer’s ineptocracy
June 27th, 2012
3:21 pm
Texas may have horrible congestion, but with the continuing massive investments in water and transportation infrastructure, to outside investors it appears as if Texas is actively doing something about it as outside investors understand that major population centers are going to have massive congestion at times.
To many outside investors, it looks as if Georgia is doing nothing to tackle it water supply and transportation problems as not much has been done in terms of transportation in nearly two decades and it appears as though nothing has been done about water since Lake Lanier was built over 50 years ago.
The Dallas-Fort Worth area and North Texas region has nearly two-dozen locally-controlled and managed reservoirs to supplement their two federally-controlled reservoirs.
Overall available water supply is not a real problem in North Texas as much as it is a failure of the Dallas-Fort Worth area to embrace the type of continued water conservation measures that North Georgia finally realized that it had to embrace out of necessity during the ‘06-’09 drought.
If DFW ever chooses to consistently practice adequate water conservation, they’ll have more than enough water to get them through their frequent dry periods as they’ve invested in the construction of nearly two-dozen reservoirs over the past 60 years.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 27th, 2012
4:08 pm
5 Signs the United States is Undergoing a Coup.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/06/5-signs-the-united-states-is-undergoing-a-coup/258904/