Poll Position: Carry permits for soldiers under 21?
While the T-SPLOST vote rightly gets most of the attention, the July 31 primaries will also feature a number of ballot questions for both Republican voters and Democrats. We’ve covered a few of them in previous Poll Positions, and today we’re going to resume that series with a bang. No, really.
The third question on GOP primary ballots will read:
Should active duty military personnel who are under the age of 21 be allowed to obtain a Georgia weapons carry license?
Should active duty military personnel who are under the age of 21 be allowed to obtain a Georgia weapons carry license?
- Yes (547 Votes)
- No (57 Votes)
- I don't know (10 Votes)
Total Voters: 614
Loading ...The question dovetails with a Senate bill (SB 493) sponsored by Bartow County’s Barry Loudermilk in this year’s session. That bill passed the Senate with a broader impact, lowering the carry license from 21 to 18 for anyone who passed a firearms training course within three months of applying. A substitute version proposed in the House limited the impact to under-21s who had completed basic training in any branch of the armed services, mirroring the ballot question, but the bill never came up for a vote in the House. (Note: This paragraph has been edited to correct the versions of the bill and the timeline in which they appeared.)
As with most of the other ballot questions next month, this one anticipates the introduction (or in this case, re-introduction) of actual legislation, and almost certainly will be used to justify said legislation. And it will almost certainly be approved by GOP primary votes.
But does it pass muster with blog readers? It’s this week’s Poll Position question, and you can sound off in the nearby poll and the comments thread below.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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198 comments Add your comment
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 22nd, 2012
1:54 pm
Just show up and vote without showing an ID? What county do you live in?
MrLiberty
June 22nd, 2012
1:55 pm
Paint it with any pretty colors you like, but basic military training teaches folks how to KILL other folks. The pictures they DONT let us see from Iraq and Afghanista (but the rest of the world gets to see) show clearly that american soldiers kill and maim tens of thousands of folks who do not threaten them or the US one bit. Do I think that these folks, above any other folks between the age of 18 and 21 deserve to be able to carry a concealed weapon – NO. They have been trained by the one of the many organizations whose premise for existence is VIOLENCE – namely the US government (actually every government qualifies in this manner).
Do I believe that everyone has the right to defend themselves legally with whatever weapon they see fit without needing to get the permission of the government? Absolutely.
This bill should cover everyone. Singling out military trained folks is once again giving far too much credit and accolades to folks who just do not deserve it. We have not fought a truly defensive war since maybe WW2 but certainly the American Revolution. Our military folks join for a lot of reasons, but the defense of america (if that’s what they actually believe they are doing) just doesn’t apply to what our empire is doing in foreign lands.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 22nd, 2012
1:58 pm
C’mon, Snark. It’s a harmless question asked of the voting public.
Do you have a problem with elected officials asking for their constituents opinions?
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 22nd, 2012
1:59 pm
Remember those wild predictions of terrible things that would happen if we armed airline pilots. Holes blown in the fuselage, innocent people wounded, or planes crashing during shoot outs.
In Florida, people were appalled when gun laws were liberalized to allow conceal carry. People predicted tourists would be afraid to come to Florida and gun fights would take place on the streets.
In Georgia the Conceal/Carry permits have caused such a carnage, …….wrong!
Yawn!
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 22nd, 2012
2:03 pm
Cheesy Grits/ Finn
Just show up and vote without showing an ID? What county do you live in?
Apparently the USA, when a guy can show up in DC and ask for and get Eric Holders ballot, without showing an ID. I think he was white, and don’t that beat all.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 22nd, 2012
2:10 pm
“Paint it with any pretty colors you like, but basic military training teaches folks how to KILL other folks.”
Actually, Mr. Liberty, basic military training teaches folks how to respect authority, and to honor their peers and those that went before them. It teaches them discipline and integrity. It teaches folks how to work as a team and support each other when the going gets tough. Basic military training teaches many young men and women life skills that will allow them to succeed when others might fail.
I’m not sure if you ever served in the military, Mr. Liberty, but if you did, those lessons obviously were lost on you.
p.s. It is follow-on specialty training in SOME of the branches that teaches recruits how to kill, and by and large they refrain from harming innocent civilians despite your bogus figures, because of the basic training they received above.
Del
June 22nd, 2012
2:13 pm
Active duty military personnel regardless of age should be allowed a firearm carry license, however, liberals regardless of age should be disallowed a carry license. In fact liberals should be banned from owning a weapon of any type because they’re far more comfortable with criminals owning weapons.
Texas Justice
June 22nd, 2012
2:17 pm
More Guns = Fewer Downtown ATL Panhandlers
whoknowz
June 22nd, 2012
2:18 pm
This question is based on the House Judiciary Committee’s substitute for the bill. The version as it passed the Senate is at http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/20112012/124266.pdf
The reason given for the bill in the Sen was the military personnel under 21 issue, but the bill did not limit it to that.
For those who think it should extend to all under 21 who receive certain training, remember that students can stay in public school until age 21. The 1,000 foot weapon-free safety zone for schools was removed from state law a couple of years ago. So do consider that impact in your suggestions.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 22nd, 2012
2:26 pm
Del
more comfortable with criminals owning weapons.
No, not exactly, they just aren’t comfortable with law abiding people owning a gun. They think a $100 Walmart Card will convince the thieves and rapist to give up their Uzi. They prefer no one owning a weapon. According to them we should leave it up to the police, and if they are a little tardy, so what. Population control and global warming benefits to all, it seems.
Uh Oh
June 22nd, 2012
2:30 pm
Del
That was about as stupid as some of the things you post over at Bookman’s………..
Different blog, same mentality. Guess you are what you are
Hillbilly D
June 22nd, 2012
2:30 pm
People who have a carry license are seldom involved in a crime involving a firearm. I forget the exact percentage but it’s extremely low. It’s the folks who don’t have a license you have to worry about. But of course, if you’re not worried about being prosecuted for shooting somebody, which in most instances is still a crime, are you really going to worry about breaking a gun law.
I learned to shoot before I was 5 years old, always with adult supervision until I reached my teen years. There’s only a few simple rules you need to remember: every gun is a loaded gun, always carry with the muzzle pointed to the ground, never fire unless you’re 100% sure what you’re shooting at and what is, or potentially is, behind your target and never pull a firearm unless you intend to use it. Follow those rules and you’ll never have a problem.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 22nd, 2012
2:31 pm
Fast and Furious is obviously being ignored by the MSM in America, but not so in the UK.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100166854/the-fast-and-furious-scandal-is-turning-into-president-obamas-watergate/
Logical Dude
June 22nd, 2012
2:34 pm
whoknowz
Yes, keep current gun laws in place, and punish hurtful activity, not just carrying a weapon.
Good points that you bring up, but still. . . are we to trust 18 year olds or are we to keep them children until 21?
Del
June 22nd, 2012
2:37 pm
Uh Oh, a name changer.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 22nd, 2012
2:38 pm
Hillbilly D
I drove to high school, when I turned 16, and left my shotgun on the front seat of the car, on days when I was going to follow someone home, and we were going quail hunting. We quail hunted 3 or 4 days a week, back in the day, all you needed was a couple of good dogs. Quail were numerous everywhere in S GA back in the 60’s and 70’s, and then started disappearing in the 80’s and wild quail are too few to hunt now. Boy, those were the days.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 22nd, 2012
2:39 pm
All of you people who are worried about someone carrying a gun simply need to remember Jim Carrey’s line in ‘Liar, Liar’:
“Stop breaking the LAW, A$$hole!”
@@
June 22nd, 2012
2:43 pm
I see no reason why not. If they’re registered, it’s likely they won’t be doing something stupid.
Should this guy have had a gun?
Uh Oh
June 22nd, 2012
2:43 pm
Del / Recon or whatever
Name changer, Uh?
Hillbilly D
June 22nd, 2012
2:45 pm
Rafe
I haven’t heard a Bobwhite in over 30 years. It’s just not the same up here without them. Ain’t progress grand?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 22nd, 2012
2:53 pm
Should active duty military personnel who are under the age of 21 be allowed to obtain a Georgia weapons carry license?
———
I’m shocked to learn that they aren’t already.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 22nd, 2012
2:58 pm
More guns = More Gun violence
Less Guns = Less Gun Violence
Class Dismissed
———-
I wonder if the author of this gem thinks we’d be any more successful at banning guns than we are at banning illicit drugs.
I doubt the pantywaist’s War On Guns would be any more successful or any less violent than the war on drugs.
Skip
June 22nd, 2012
3:03 pm
A lib Marine Sgt. !st Mar Div, DaNang 67-68. But I was never a scout so it probably dosen’t count.
Skip
June 22nd, 2012
3:06 pm
And an armed military walking the streets sounds more like a place I wouldn’t want to live.
Skip
June 22nd, 2012
3:06 pm
And an armed military walking the streets sounds more like a place I wouldn’t want to live.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 22nd, 2012
3:07 pm
we’d be any more successful at banning guns than we are at banning illicit drugs
lessee,
one is ingested and causes a chemical change in the body, sometimes having an addictive effect.
one sits in a holster, sometimes going days without being touched by human hands
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 22nd, 2012
3:07 pm
And an armed military walking the streets sounds more like a place I wouldn’t want to live
You can say that again!
Skip
June 22nd, 2012
3:08 pm
Just so you know I mean it.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
June 22nd, 2012
3:14 pm
Dusty: How would this permit apply if the bill does not pass? Are military bases exempt from Georgia law?
Military bases are Federal Government property. Also, military personnel don’t walk around with weapons — their weapons are kept in the unit’s Armory and only deployed when needed. Military Police are the only ones allowed to walk around post with a loaded weapon and then only when they are on duty.
When they are off duty, the weapon goes back inside the Armory.
The Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers
June 22nd, 2012
3:16 pm
If the vote goes against the carry permit, contact Eric Holder. He can get ya some illegaly.
Kyle Wingfield
June 22nd, 2012
3:31 pm
Well, crap. Whoknowz is right — I pulled the wrong version of the bill in writing my background summary. The ballot question is correct as stated. I’m going to correct the text now.
Smoke
June 22nd, 2012
3:37 pm
This is more closely aligned to the second amendment than just about any NHA supported bills we’ve seen. I would add that the soldier must at least have earned at least a marksman medal.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 22nd, 2012
3:38 pm
one is ingested and causes a chemical change in the body, sometimes having an addictive effect.
———-
Thank you Captain Obvious!
whoknowz
June 22nd, 2012
3:43 pm
@ logical dude
I don’t thnk this is about keeping them kids until the hit the magic number.
Gun laws are not just about who can carry them but also about where they carry them. There are certain places that most people would anticipate being gun-free except for law enforcement officers. There are places, such as schools, that it has been a priority to keep weapon-free. So I think the “where” is an important part of the discussion too.
a dad
June 22nd, 2012
3:44 pm
Given the fact that the anti-gun crowd conveniently ignores, criminals who carry guns are not the ones applying for carry permits not buying their arms from licensed dealers. The anti-gun crown faisl to realize that until placed into action by a human actor, a gun is harmless even if loaded. it is not a defective product because it does exactly what it’s supposed to, and how it’s supposed to do it. As for the Constitutional issue, the militia which was in existence when the Constitution nd Bill of Rights were drafted did not consist of a governmentaffiliated (or controlled) entity, but rather was composed or ordinary citizens who could defend against all enemies foreign and domestic. Face it libs, even Harvard’s Lawrence Tribe has concluded the 2d Amendment applies to us regular ole, law abiding citizens and we have a constitutional right to bear arms (or is it arm bears, I always get confused). The anti-gun crowd must not be aware that the U.S. is not the only country which makes guns, and that if you strip gun ownership from John Q, the only ones with guns will be the thugs.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 22nd, 2012
3:47 pm
OK, completely off-topic, but this video is too frikkin’ funny!
“The most arrogant man in the world . . ”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aqxl9qiFonc&feature=player_embedded
Smoke
June 22nd, 2012
3:47 pm
Sending our troops into harms way based on lies, not giving them the proper equipment, underpaying them while over paying contractors, underfunding VA, civil discrimination, denying them healthcare, and denying them jobs and training by a lot of conservatives are far more insulting than any words a few liberals may have to say.
Streetracer
June 22nd, 2012
3:48 pm
I know I said just one comment, but I think I have to add another, or maybe two.
Why do we keep assuming people are children until 21 or so? For example, the young adults group at church when I was growing up was aimed at 17 to 20 year olds, not 30 somethings. My parents considered me at least fairly adult by 13, and I have pretty much supproted myself since then (I didn’t pay them room and board when I lived in their house but I payed for everything else I had.)
Skip
June 22nd, 2012
3:51 pm
Unless things have changed you may not carry your personal weapon when on base, they get locked up in the armory. When the military lets everyone carry on base maybe we’ll let em all carry in town.Or do they not work for us?
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 22nd, 2012
3:53 pm
Well, I see Smoke has the DNC talking points down pat.
Uh Oh
June 22nd, 2012
3:53 pm
Ti
You look just like Obama
Hillbilly D
June 22nd, 2012
3:54 pm
Streetracer
In the generations before mine, it wasn’t unusual for people to be working for a living at 14 or 15, or earlier. A 21 year old would often be married and have 2 or 3 kids by then. I think people raise or lower themselves to our expectations. If we expect 18-19 year olds to act like kids, a lot of them will.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 22nd, 2012
3:58 pm
“You look just like Obama”
Except I’ve accomplished far more in my lifetime than he ever dreamed of doing.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 22nd, 2012
4:00 pm
Skip, I wish some other soldier at Ft Hood had been carrying, when the Islamoterroist was unloading several weapons. They unfortunately were like civilians, helpless until the police/MP/s got there. I guess Hasan didn’t get the memo about the Armory.
kelly
June 22nd, 2012
4:03 pm
Why do they need this privilege? The only answer I can come up with is the firearms industry wants more customers. Can someone tell me the compelling reason for allowing this particular group of teenagers to have a sidearm? Are they at war at home too? Or do you want to make it even easier for this group to commit suicide. I don’t get this culture of guns. Someone please explain.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 22nd, 2012
4:03 pm
Tiberius,
Smoke may be a paid Dem blogger, he learned all the talking points, or like Oblamer he reads well off a cheat sheet. I see where Oblamer is paying hecklers to hound stb President Romney.
See, he has created a few jobs.
Hillbilly D
June 22nd, 2012
4:05 pm
On the subject of weapons on military bases, a while back, I asked Daddy how it was when he was in, back in the ’40’s. He said basically like it is now, you only had a weapon if you were at the firing range, on maneuvers, etc., if you were stateside. He said it was a little different when he was in Japan. He said more people there carried arms, although he didn’t in his job. He said they were told never to go off base without a weapon, though.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 22nd, 2012
4:10 pm
Speaking of the importance of untrained children getting a carry permit. I just wonder did we check the ages and qualifications of those Mexicans we gave those firearms to in F/F.
The MSM doesn’t seem interested that nefarious and possibly felonious activities were sanctioned by our chief law enforcement officer and the President/Emperor is helping him cover it up. But, they might get all riled up if, we could show that innocent children were allowed access by our government to, of all things,………………………………..guns.
Streetracer
June 22nd, 2012
4:10 pm
Hillbilly D:
Pretty much my point. At least 5 of my classmates were married within 2 weeks of graduation. All are still married I believe. May have a bunch of 50th anneversaries to attend in a couple years. Another way to look at how times and expectations have changed, the tough wild hardcases that drove cattle from Texas to Kansas and other places averaged 17 from what I’ve read. Since my great grandfathers last trip was when he was near 30, it takes more than a few 15 and 16 year olds to get the average to 17.
Hillbilly D
June 22nd, 2012
4:17 pm
Streetracer
From what I understand, 30 years old was an old man on a cattle drive.
My own Grandpa started working in the fields when he was 6 and he never attended school after age 12. The next 70 plus years, he worked until he couldn’t work anymore. They didn’t have helicopter parents in those days.