Poll Position: Carry permits for soldiers under 21?

While the T-SPLOST vote rightly gets most of the attention, the July 31 primaries will also feature a number of ballot questions for both Republican voters and Democrats. We’ve covered a few of them in previous Poll Positions, and today we’re going to resume that series with a bang. No, really.

The third question on GOP primary ballots will read:

Should active duty military personnel who are under the age of 21 be allowed to obtain a Georgia weapons carry license?

Should active duty military personnel who are under the age of 21 be allowed to obtain a Georgia weapons carry license?

  • Yes (547 Votes)
  • No (57 Votes)
  • I don't know (10 Votes)

Total Voters: 614

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The question dovetails with a Senate bill (SB 493) sponsored by Bartow County’s Barry Loudermilk in this year’s session. That bill passed the Senate with a broader impact, lowering the carry license from 21 to 18 for anyone who passed a firearms training course within three months of applying. A substitute version proposed in the House limited the impact to under-21s who had completed basic training in any branch of the armed services, mirroring the ballot question, but the bill never came up for a vote in the House. (Note: This paragraph has been edited to correct the versions of the bill and the timeline in which they appeared.)

As with most of the other ballot questions next month, this one anticipates the introduction (or in this case, re-introduction) of actual legislation, and almost certainly will be used to justify said legislation. And it will almost certainly be approved by GOP primary votes.

But does it pass muster with blog readers? It’s this week’s Poll Position question, and you can sound off in the nearby poll and the comments thread below.

– By Kyle Wingfield

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198 comments Add your comment

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

June 22nd, 2012
10:51 am

More guns = More Gun violence

Less Guns = Less Gun Violence

Class Dismissed.

ByteMe

June 22nd, 2012
10:55 am

No.

Just because I have a job that lets me drive a tank doesn’t mean I can drive that tank down the middle of I-75.

There’s a reason we don’t want to give too much freedom to those under 21, regardless of whether they volunteered to go to war for us. Has to do with brain development that happens between 17 and 22.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

June 22nd, 2012
10:55 am

If they go overseas, we’ll give them a gun.
If we get attacked, we will give them a gun.

Why else would they need a gun? To shoot up mail boxes, of course!

For some reason this reminds me of Superbad where the two cops are drinking beers and shooting at coke bottles. They hear sirens and one says “The cops! let’s get outta here!” and they speed off…

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

June 22nd, 2012
10:55 am

Cheesy Grits falling farther and farther behind in Florida.

He loses that state and its over.

Right now Cheesy Grits has it easy. His position on everything is that Obama’s position is wrong.

Eventually though he will have to state what his positions are.

Thats when the house of cards will fall.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

June 22nd, 2012
10:58 am

ByteMe’s got a tank? HolyToledo, Batman!

Mind if I take it for a spin?

Dusty

June 22nd, 2012
11:00 am

I think it would be an insult to our armed forces who are under 21 to tell them they are prepared to protect and fight for our country and then not permit them to carry firearms in Georgia.

We have military bases in Georgia. How would this permit apply if the bill does not pass? Are military bases exempt from Georgia law?

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

June 22nd, 2012
11:00 am

The whole immigration thing was to get Florida, New Mexico, and Colorado into the Obama camp. It may very well work.

He’s a shrewd one, that one.

The team that defeated the Clinton campaign machine isn’t going to be a pushover.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

June 22nd, 2012
11:02 am

Dusty, I don’t think anyone below the rank of Lieutenant is issued a sidearm.

Dusty

June 22nd, 2012
11:06 am

Uh oh 10:55

Byte Me wants to talk about brain development between 17 and 22.

I think liberals should worry about their “brain development” from 10 to 100. Need I mention the use of “cheesy grits” as political campaign material?

Aquagirl

June 22nd, 2012
11:06 am

I said no because the training for everyone else is supposed to include instruction on GA firearms laws. Handing out concealed carry permits like they’re attaboy cookies is creepy and smacks of Military Deification Syndrome.

Dusty

June 22nd, 2012
11:11 am

Does this permit refer only to sidearms, not all weapons you can carry yourself?

Common Sense

June 22nd, 2012
11:13 am

Look at the FBI yearly reports regarding guns.

More law abiding citizens armed = less crime.

Many military personnel are issued sidearms including privates. Mostly has to do with job requirements; especially if personnel have a job that involves driving vehicles/machinery.

Ayn Rant

June 22nd, 2012
11:14 am

Let’s see now … Georgia government just made #1 in the “most corrupt state governments” list, Georgia employment growth is among the lowest in the nation, and the bottom has fallen out of the Atlanta housing market!

… and we’re supposed to be concerned about whether active military personnel under 21 can get a gun permit? Why clutter the ballot with a lot of nonsensical propositions that the Legislature should decide; aren’t those old boys scheduled to blow back into Atlanta for another session of fine dining, expensive drink, and generous bribes?

I say give active military personnel of all ages the right to carry guns and buy drinks. What’s a few more guns among the millions already under pillows and in glove boxes?

Skip

June 22nd, 2012
11:22 am

Why not, the neighborhood watch guy carries and nothing unexpected ever happens.

1961_Xer

June 22nd, 2012
11:24 am

“More guns = More Gun violence

Less Guns = Less Gun Violence

Class Dismissed.”

Recent FBI/ATF statics on this matter show just the opposite. There are more guns than ever in America, there has been a HUGE increase in the last 4-5 years, and the gun-related crime rate is dropping like a lead zeppelin.

Class Dismissed

Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!

June 22nd, 2012
11:24 am

All active duty military personnel know more about firearms use and safety than the average gun owner, especially Army and Marine personnel.

For you liberals that never saw the inside of a recruitment center, it’s called basic training.

And if you think that kind and loving gentleman known as your drill instructor is going to let you move on without knowing your – stuff – regarding firearms, think again.

Of course, for many of you, thinking isn’t your strong suit, anyway.

Aquagirl

June 22nd, 2012
11:25 am

I don’t think anyone below the rank of Lieutenant is issued a sidearm.

I think it depends on the job and branch of service. There were certainly some MOS’s when I was in the Army where enlisted qualified on Berettas.

Dusty

June 22nd, 2012
11:25 am

aquagirl, 11:06

Military deification? Are you kidding? Having respect for those in the miiltary who volunteer to protect and fight for our country is deification?

Go stand on a corner and wave your white flag. I am sure that way no one will ever need a firearm. Keep singing Kumbaya la la la…

Aquagirl

June 22nd, 2012
11:32 am

Having respect for those in the miiltary who volunteer to protect and fight for our country is deification?

Dusty, I never confuse true respect with fake pandering. A concealed carry permit should not be some kind of strange reward. I have more respect for both military personnel and firearms.

Dusty

June 22nd, 2012
11:36 am

Ok Aquagirl

You were in the army. Thank you. But what happened? Something must have. You act like the military is nothing we can trust or show appreciation.

I don’t feel that way. My father, husband and oldest son have all served in the military. I guess we just did not notice the “deification” you mentioned. Were you a chaplain???.

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

June 22nd, 2012
11:39 am

Look at the FBI yearly reports regarding guns.

More law abiding citizens armed = less crime.

That maybe the dumbest thing ive ever read. Straight from the NRA playbook.

If more guns made you safer then America would be the safest place on Earth.

It isn’t. Not even close.

Countries where guns are illegal have far less crime and far less gun violence than we do.

Class re-dismissed.

Grasshopper

June 22nd, 2012
11:40 am

I’ve yet to read a cogent response against it, just more of the same expected insults hurled by our friends on the left towards servicemen. You know the routine by now.

Tom B.

June 22nd, 2012
11:43 am

1. It’s a license, not a permit.
2. It’s for weapons, not just guns.
3. There is no training requirement in GA to get the license. (AquaGirl)
4. They might already be allowed by law to carry in GA if they have a license that is reciprocal with GA. (half of the states)
5. Please, get educated before you espouse nonsense in trying to make your illogical point.

That's Goofy

June 22nd, 2012
11:43 am

Should military personnel under 21 be allowed to drink? Do we set up a special set of rules for those in the military? There is a huge difference between carrying a gun while on duty vs walking the street.

Logical Dude

June 22nd, 2012
11:45 am

from the article: lowering the carry license from 21 to 18 for anyone who passed a firearms training course within three months of applying

Why is it 21 if proper training is involved anyway? change it to 18!

And it does not say “Concealed Carry”. Kyle, can you clarify if they mean “concealed” as well, or just a regular carry license?

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

June 22nd, 2012
11:45 am

No one is throwing insults at servicemen in this blog.

Voting to reduce the benefits we give servicemen? Now, that’s an insult! Thanks Republicans….

Aquagirl

June 22nd, 2012
11:47 am

You act like the military is nothing we can trust or show appreciation.

As I pointed out, there are things you need to know about concealed carry that aren’t covered in military training. You should know Georgia law and you should know handguns. It isn’t the military’s job to teach you those things and you shouldn’t assume they’re optional because you appreciate someone’s military service.

Like I said, I don’t confuse genuine appreciation and respect with deification. The latter is unwarranted and inappropriate actions that are more like a child’s hero worship of an idealized older sibling. It honestly creeps me out.

iggy

June 22nd, 2012
11:48 am

Atlanta area thugs, from age 15 and up are carrying firearms. Lower the age from 21 to 18? Absolutely!! Atleast they will legally be able to fire back at the thugs that plague this society.

Logical Dude

June 22nd, 2012
11:49 am

oh, and I would support the change for ANYONE who is 18, not just military personnel. As long as the firearms training course was taken.

And drinking too should be back to 18. make consequences of drinking tougher (drunk driving, etc), but allow a drink for chrissakes. Having a couple of beers ain’t gonna harm them if they just hang out. but if they get in a car, make THAT the “bad” thing, not just having a drink or two.

Don't do me like that

June 22nd, 2012
11:50 am

Tiberius

What branch were you in and what years did your serve?

md

June 22nd, 2012
11:50 am

“More guns = More Gun violence

Less Guns = Less Gun Violence”

Doubtful…..the number of guns is of no real significance…..it’s the number of idiots with guns that drive the violence equation.

Mexico has a total gun ban……..enough said.

Tom B.

June 22nd, 2012
11:52 am

6. It’s not a license to carry concealed! It’s for both open and concealed.
7. See # 5!

Dusty

June 22nd, 2012
11:52 am

Aquagirl…

What is “pandering” about a state recognizing the abilities of trained active military members?

It is not a gift but an acknowledgment of training. It seems you want to put a test of truthfulness to any sign of approval for those in the military.

That is what I do not understand. It seems your politics overcome your ability to analyze fairly or even show any trace of appreciation for the armed forces. .

md

June 22nd, 2012
11:54 am

“Countries where guns are illegal have far less crime and far less gun violence than we do.”

Again……see Mexico…..

iggy

June 22nd, 2012
11:54 am

These days, with all the home invasions, carJackings and just common lawlessness, everyone should be carrying a weapon, in order to mow down these goons.

iggy

June 22nd, 2012
11:56 am

AquaGirl…Girl beiing the operative word. Most fems think with their emotions and not with logic. How else could Obama have won…

md

June 22nd, 2012
11:57 am

“The whole immigration thing was to get Florida, New Mexico, and Colorado into the Obama camp. It may very well work.”

And it very well may backfire…..legal immigrants aren’t necessarily thrilled that after they spent years and hundreds of dollars playing by the rules the line jumpers are suddenly treated “special”……

Don't do me like that

June 22nd, 2012
11:58 am

“Most fems think with their emotions and not with logic. ”

Is that some assertion you heard on the radio / tv or read in an article? Better yet, I bet you can produce an unbiased link to show us all.

Thanks

iggy

June 22nd, 2012
12:00 pm

Under which rock have you been living…?

Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!

June 22nd, 2012
12:02 pm

“What branch were you in and what years did your serve?”

Why do you ask? Not especially fond of revealing too much information about myself to anonymous bloggers, as some of the liberals over at that other site took to internet stalking when given too much information.

Aquagirl

June 22nd, 2012
12:03 pm

It’s not a license to carry concealed! It’s for both open and concealed.

True, sorry for the incorrect term. But honestly most people don’t apply for the license to openly carry handguns. If they have one on their person, they’ll carry it concealed.

md

June 22nd, 2012
12:03 pm

“Most fems think with their emotions and not with logic. ”

Don’t know about thinking with emotions, but emotions certainly do play a part….actually, hormones do play a part:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1286817/Women-prone-emotional-stress-men-sensitivity-hormone.html

“Ladies, you may want to take a deep breath before reading on.

Because, according to scientists, women really are ruled by their hormones.

Members of the fairer sex are more sensitive to a key stress hormone – with even small amounts sending their emotions into a whirl, research shows.

Men, in contrast, are relatively immune to even high amounts of the chemical.”

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

June 22nd, 2012
12:04 pm

Mexico has a total gun ban……..enough said.

Ummm no they dont.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Mexico

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

June 22nd, 2012
12:04 pm

Mexican constitutional rights have long included the right to carry arms. The 1857 Constitution included the right to carry arms:

Artículo 10: Todo hombre tiene derecho de poseer y portar armas para su seguridad y legítima defensa. La ley señalará cuáles son las prohibidas y la pena en que incurren los que las portaren. [1]

Article 10: Every man has the right to have and to carry arms for his security and legitimate defense. The law will indicate which arms are prohibited and the penalty for those that will carry prohibited arms.

Don't do me like that

June 22nd, 2012
12:04 pm

Tiberius

No problem. Thanks

John Galt

June 22nd, 2012
12:06 pm

“If more guns made you safer then America would be the safest place on Earth.”

No, it’s the lack of guns in the hands of victims that have been the issue.

Ask any successful thug.

Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy

June 22nd, 2012
12:09 pm

More guns equal less gun violence, studies show. I give you Chicago as an example, every weekend there are 7-20 shootings. Rahm blames the “gangs”, but he offers no proof. He and his predecessors have enacted some of the most stringent gun laws in the land. Only the criminals have guns in Chicago and it is not working out too well.

I see where he is offering $100 gift cards to people who turn in a gun. Great deal, if you are interested in trading up to a better model. He would be better off passing legislation requiring every household to maintain a weapon.

Grasshopper

June 22nd, 2012
12:10 pm

“No one is throwing insults at servicemen in this blog.”

ByteMe at 10:55 — “There’s a reason we don’t want to give too much freedom to those under 21, regardless of whether they volunteered to go to war for us. Has to do with brain development that happens between 17 and 22.”

Finn at 10:55 — “Why else would they need a gun? To shoot up mail boxes, of course!”

Aquagirl at 11:06 — “Handing out concealed carry permits like they’re attaboy cookies is creepy and smacks of Military Deification Syndrome.”

All sound like put-downs to me. Of course, I’m sure there will be justifications and clarifications now. That’s part of the liberal routine also.

iggy

June 22nd, 2012
12:11 pm

Nice followup md…thanks!

yuzeyurbrane

June 22nd, 2012
12:11 pm

Another illustration of GOP strategy to divert people from anything of real significance to wedge issues. While I am glad someone volunteers to protect our country, I don’t know if I feel comfortable with the thought that some of them may be suffering from PTSD and packed with heat. If you study your history, you will learn that it was no mere coincidence that organized violent crime rose in the 1920’s. While I don’t think they would be the major source of violent crime, that is no reason to make it any easier to get access to guns than the rest of us. Doing something is better than doing nothing.