On T-SPLOST, vote your interests — not what you think others’ are
In recent weeks, a few friends have asked me for advice: How should they vote in July’s T-SPLOST referendum?
I asked them where they do most of their driving. Then I rattled off the nearby projects I could remember — and advised them to check the official map in case I had forgotten others. But one guy replied that he wanted to know what’s best for the region, not just himself.
What’s best for the region, I told him, is for everyone to decide what’s best for themselves, and vote accordingly.
Advocates of the 10-year, $7.2 billion sales tax say many of our transportation problems are regional in nature. One of their favorite illustrations is that the project most desired by elected officials in Douglas County was the interchange of I-285 and I-20 west, which sits in Fulton.
They’re right about the regional nature of many of our problems. And it might well be true that the best way to improve commutes for the people of Douglas County is to spend money on projects elsewhere.
But I’ve come to the conclusion that voting for T-SPLOST based on what I think are the interests of people in Douglas, or Cherokee, or Gwinnett, or anywhere else I don’t travel often, is foolish.
If the list includes projects that will ease bottlenecks and free up travelers from Cherokee to their jobs elsewhere in the region, then by all means those people should vote for it. The same goes for everyone else in every other county.
But if it doesn’t help them, why would I expect them to vote for it anyway with the expectation it could improve my commute — even if they don’t know much about the routes I drive and the traffic I face?
While $7.2 billion represents but a down payment toward the tens of billions in new infrastructure local transportation experts say metro Atlanta needs, it is still a large chunk of money. Not everyone in our 10-county region should expect to see all their problems disappear — not by a long shot. But if the list is as good for the whole region as advertised, a majority of voters ought to believe they’ll see enough progress to make it worthwhile.
The reverse is also true. If a majority of voters look at the list and shake their heads, it’s hard to argue the plan is really the best we could do.
It’s not as if the list reflects an obvious effort by local leaders to take a few important, congested corridors and fix them above all else. That approach might have justified spending a disproportionate amount of money in some places. Instead, the project list looks much more like a grab bag in which this county got its top 10 projects, that county got 12 it wanted, and so on.
Again: If that was the right method, it ought to show up in the vote totals.
Some people thinking regionally fret about the message a rejection of T-SPLOST would send to businesses thinking of moving or expanding here. I’d be much more worried about that message if most tax opponents were questioning the need to do anything in the first place.
Instead, the disagreements are largely about what to do and how to pay for it. Those can be resolved if the tax is axed.
Incidentally, this is one of the main ways government spending has grown so large, with so many complaints about how little we get for it. It does no good to vote more spending on education or anti-poverty programs, without recognizing education results have declined and poverty levels stayed flat.
It makes no more sense to vote for a tax that won’t ease the congestion you know, in the hopes it might help the congestion you don’t.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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244 comments Add your comment
Dusty
June 22nd, 2012
6:15 pm
Sorry, Kyle, I really don’t want to raise taxes for anything. Americans are going to have to figure out how to manage without handing over every problem to government. Cut! Conserve! Counteract! KOOL!
Pat
June 22nd, 2012
6:17 pm
Think of your own interests first.
Very inspiring, if you’re an Ayn Rand groupie.
Can we go ahead and order this engraved on your tombstone?
BlahBlahBlah
June 22nd, 2012
6:19 pm
Giving $7 billion to the same folks who lied about Ga. 400 is foolish. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
JR in Mableton
June 22nd, 2012
6:29 pm
You have to ask yourself if transportation infrastructure is a public or private sector responsibility. Historically, the answer has been public sector, which means tax revenue supports construction and maintenance. If you believe the private sector should be responsible, then get ready for more toll roads. The irony here is that people are mad about GA400 and the continued toll and are going to vote NO, which will actually open the door for a wave of toll roads. My vote is YES. It is a good list and a good start to addressing our infrastructure needs. This is local control!
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
June 22nd, 2012
6:37 pm
There’s like zero chance that the dummycrats will ever be voted back in control of Georgia, so this money won’t get snorted up their noses.
Why not?
Junior Samples
June 22nd, 2012
6:41 pm
Now that’s being a true patriot Kyle.
Ask not what you can do for your Country?
F. Sinkwich
June 22nd, 2012
6:44 pm
As I recall, half of the money raised goes to eco-weenie, feel-good boondoggles which have no effect on the traffic issues we face.
Remove lib ilks from the decision process. Then I might vote for it.
Until then, it’s ‘no’ all the way.
C
June 22nd, 2012
6:45 pm
I agree with you, Blah. At the same time, this city is falling to pieces. The roads we have just don’t cut it. I think JR is right, voting NO will likely lead to more toll roads.
Liz
June 22nd, 2012
7:02 pm
I am voting for my own personal interests, but it great part, because those also coincident with what is best for Georgia overall, for decades to come (not the construction lobby in this state, nor the glad handers robo-calling).
Still voting no.
LC
June 22nd, 2012
7:02 pm
Just think of yourself – what a great mantra. Just use those religious right beliefs when they’re convenient and stick you head in the sand the rest of the time. Kyle’s friend seems like he would be a better person to have as a friend and Kyle is the ‘friend’ that’s always watching out for himself (we all have a few like that).
Apparently Kyle believes you can grow a bountiful harvest by just doing nothing. Cities and Counties are corporations (just look at the Georgia Constitution definition). A corporation typically invest in something to create a return on it’s investment. Kyle apparently believes that Atlanta can be the only major city in the US that doesn’t need a transit system and still thrive. If Atlanta wants to continue to grow we must create a city that gets people out of their cars more and in livable communities. This is one of the top criteria college and young professionals cite as a determinant of where they will decide to settle. This is the reason most of the medium to large companies are helping to push the T-SPLOST (those same companies that Kyle claims to be trying to help create jobs) – they know they need ample talent to fill the jobs at their companies and to continue to grow and this is an investment to help attract that talent. As Atlanta continues to grow, it creates more opportunities for everyone (even Kyle and those Cherokee County Tea-partiers).
sheepdawg
June 22nd, 2012
7:09 pm
just vote no
Third_stone
June 22nd, 2012
7:12 pm
All major cities have rail transit systems. As we stand today, even with a very weak transit system, the parking lots in the DeKalb county stations are full of cars from Gwinnett and further. Those are cars that will not be on the road in front of you.
Our Traffic and air problems are addressed either by building trains, or shrinking the population. For every car there is more air pollution, and at some point you cannot breathe. Even now, summer is full of “orange alert” when the air outside feels heavy to breathe. Shall we just ignore it and make the road wider?
F. Sinkwich
June 22nd, 2012
7:13 pm
“If Atlanta wants to continue to grow we must create a city that gets people out of their cars more and in livable communities.”
And get those cretins in Alpharetta to pay for it.
Got it.
How Inciteful Is That!
June 22nd, 2012
7:16 pm
I wonder if the Interstate Highway system would have ever been built if approval had been left solely to the tunnel-visioned, “what’s in it for me,” conservatives such as Kyle. Come to think of it, what do we need airports and airplanes for if I do not use the things. Does mail get delivered via that method of transportation? Are jobs and houses accessible along those routes? Is food delivered that way? Are there any restaurants or schools along those routes? What’s in it for me so long as I never go there or need anything manufactured there or ever want to live there.
John
June 22nd, 2012
7:16 pm
Absolutely not!!
jconservative
June 22nd, 2012
7:17 pm
I vote NO!
F. Sinkwich
June 22nd, 2012
7:27 pm
Hey How, please demonstrate how that POS trolley is gonna do anything for anybody.
Please contrast and compare that boondoggle to the interstate highway system, ports, etc.
Thanks.
How Inciteful Is That!
June 22nd, 2012
7:29 pm
Sink,
Compare and contrast whatever floats your own boat. My comment was directed to Kyle, not you.
F. Sinkwich
June 22nd, 2012
7:37 pm
That’s fine, How.
Lib ilks have always had difficulty justifying their moronic statements.
You are no exception.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 22nd, 2012
7:40 pm
Excellent advice. Checked the map–nothing for me.
I feel I must follow the libtard’s advice and vote WITH my own self interest, and AGAINST taxing myself to pay for someone else’s commute time reduction.
Bruno
June 22nd, 2012
8:05 pm
Hillbilly, Dusty, @@, Reporter, Tiberius–Jay chose to honor me on FNM tonight. Please all drop by and put a song up.
Lynn
June 22nd, 2012
8:19 pm
Want the “Northern Arc? This T-splost funds a piecemeal approach to the Arc project (more behind close door planning cheered by pavement lobbyist).
Michael H. Smith
June 22nd, 2012
8:25 pm
I came back for this… another plea to please vote to raise my taxes for the greater good of saving the MARTA money-bottomless-pit ?
Yeah, right!
I’ll be back to listen in on these socialist whiner democrats and laid-off MARTA gub’ment union workers rant through their tears. The more hostile and vitriolic they become in attacking me and the others who vote against this TAX by Special Deception the more I’ll laugh with a conservative victory in hand.
Oh and BTW, comrade leftwingers and “GOP closet progressives”, nothing in your boondoggle plan serves any of my transportation interests.
Ayn Rant
June 22nd, 2012
8:34 pm
Your interests are most likely to be the creation of new jobs that fuel consumer demand, which in turn provides the opportunity for profitable new private enterprise, resulting in an uptick in the economy for most everyone in Georgia.
The benefits of T-SPLOST will endure long after people have the forgotten the penny-ante tax hike that jump starts the Georgia economy.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward - Again)
June 22nd, 2012
8:39 pm
Sorry, the benefits need to be direct, not third- fourth- or seventh-party.
I want mine.
native
June 22nd, 2012
8:48 pm
The discourse here is on the levelof an elementary school playground.
Mr. Wingfield
Instead, the disagreements are largely about what to do and how to pay for it. Those can be resolved if the tax is axed.
native
June 22nd, 2012
8:50 pm
The discourse here is on the level of an elementary school playground.
Mr. Winglield:
“Instead, the disagreements are largely about what to do and how to pay for it. Those can be resolved if the tax is axed.”
Really? How, with the polarization extant in our current politics?
How Inciteful Is That!
June 22nd, 2012
8:52 pm
The opponents of taxing for the common good better get busy saving those pennies because it will take a lifetime of stuffing piggy banks just to cover the cost of paving the road in front of your own home.
How Inciteful Is That!
June 22nd, 2012
9:06 pm
That’s fine, Sinkwich.
Con ilks have always had difficulty justifying their moronic statements.
You are no exception.
It is so easy to play at your level.
Melaine
June 22nd, 2012
9:16 pm
There is so much on the TSPLOST list that will not help Atlanta’s traffic problems. ARC admits that commute time will be reduced by about 6%. The list looks like some of the roundtable members were just trying to find something they could add for their district so they could say to their constituents “look what we get!”. What has not been stressed with the press on this vote is that this is just the first installment of what the politicians want to do over the next 30 years, requiring another vote every 10 years. JR in Mabelton said “If you believe the private sector should be responsible, then get ready for more toll roads.” The problem there is the roads were built with TAXPAYERS money. We were assured that the Ga 400 toll monies would only be used for Ga 400 but there was a bit of a conundrum when MARTA wound up with some of it and got caught. We were promised that the toll would end and it did, for one day. The HOT lanes were built with TAXPAYER monies with a bit of help from the Federal Government that gets its money from TAXPAYERS. Trust is a big problem and with this much money being collected, I picture quite a few hands being rubbed together in anticipation of diving into the pot o’ gold at the end of this rainbow. Will it be spent wisely? I doubt it. Will there be corruption? I don’t doubt it.
on your level
June 22nd, 2012
9:17 pm
Love these posters who attempt to attack the mental acuity of others while they can’t figure out that it only takes one click of the submit button to make a comment.
ByteMe
June 22nd, 2012
9:22 pm
I will vote NO. Not because the projects won’t affect me all that much… they won’t because I work at home… but because I think having only a short-term flow of revenue to solve a long-term problem is a chickensh*t way out for the legislators. Make them do their job and act like leaders.
seriously folks...
June 22nd, 2012
9:26 pm
This isn’t a plan to relieve congestion! This is a growth initiative. IF passed, we get the privilege to pay to endure 3-5 years of construction agony for 2-3 years of slightly less traffic before the roads fill back up. Not a good use of my money.
.
A better use of the money would be to relocate government jobs and private sector jobs further away from the current bottlenecks. Offer housing relocation assistance to incentivise the relocations. This will take cars away from the congested areas AND stimulate the housing market.
Never allow incentives to bring jobs to the city, Buckhead, or the perimeter area. This only makes the problem worse.
And the bigger question is… where are we going to get drinking water for all the new people moving here?
Don't think so
June 22nd, 2012
9:30 pm
I would like to take the train and get off the highway. I have been paying the 1-cent tax for 30 years and I am 10 miles away from a train station. Now they want to double my transit taxes, and when the $7.2B is spent, I will still be 10 miles away from a train station. I don’t think so….
@@
June 22nd, 2012
9:39 pm
From Kyle’s June 11th column:
Depending on how one defines the region, the data show “congestion” (vs. mere distance) accounts for six to 10 minutes of the average, hour-a-day commute. So, the data suggest T-SPLOST projects would shrink the average daily commute by less than 150 seconds.
What’s 150 seconds worth?
schnirt
yuzeyurbrane
June 22nd, 2012
9:49 pm
Kyle, your statement is not exactly a profile in courage. But I probably would punt, too. I’ll probably decide in the voting booth. . . if I decide to vote at all. On a tangent, I do not understand why some righties see everything as a leftwing conspiracy and engage in vitriolic name-calling. The prime pushers of this proposal are the Chamber of Commerce, Governor Deal and the political establishment, both Democrat and Republican. Hardly wild-eyed revolutionaries leading an attack on the Bastille. Some issues, such as this one, are simply non-partisan old-fashioned what is for the civic good issues on which reasonable people can have reasonable disagreements. My wish is that we could all return to that level of discourse.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 22nd, 2012
10:14 pm
Voting for T-Splost is like voting for Oblamer’s Stimulus bill, because your library will get a new book, if it passes.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 22nd, 2012
10:34 pm
Not quite sure how those aviation projects on the list are going to help anyone’s commute.
TSPLOST: Denied.
Mark in mid-town
June 22nd, 2012
10:37 pm
Kyle, I often agree with much of what you write. But I disagree with you here 100%. I think people should vote for or against this based on whether they think it’s best for the region, or whether they think the region will be worse for it. If we view it solely in terms of what’s in it for “me”, then I think not only is that incredibly selfish, it’s also incredibly short-sighted.
native
June 22nd, 2012
11:11 pm
Mr. Wingfield,
How do you choose to vote for your principles and when for your interests, or do you consider them to be entirely the same?
Atlanta mom
June 22nd, 2012
11:23 pm
Wow! I’ve never heard it expressed so bluntly. If it doesn’t help me today, well just don’t vote for it. What about tomorrow? What about your children? Kyle, by the time your children are grown, Georgia will be just another Alabama . And you will be able to take a bow and explain how you helped to make it so .
ragnar danneskjold
June 22nd, 2012
11:34 pm
Simple wisdom. Well considered argument, no dispute here.
Hillbilly D
June 23rd, 2012
12:14 am
In my region, which isn’t Atlanta, the most populous county will get back $1.45 for every $1.00 it spends on the T-SPLOST. All the Chamber of Commerce Crowd and County Politicians in that county are pointing this out and what a great investment it will be for them. Two counties in my region have enough votes to vote it in for the rest of us to pay. We’ve got enough roads already. More roads will bring in more people and we’ve got enough of them, too. So screw the two most populous counties. If they want roads, they can pay for them. I’m voting “NO”.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 23rd, 2012
12:42 am
This T-SPLOST referendum is going to be an unmitigated political disaster and rightfully so.
The (often corrupt and inept) legislature has punted away their constitutional responsibility for the maintenance and upkeep of the road network to the voters, who rightfully don’t trust the state legislature as far as they can throw them, by putting critically-needed road improvements on a list of optional improvements that is laced heavily with purely economic development pet projects (the Beltline, poorly-placed proposed transit lines, airport runway improvements, walking and biking trails, etc) that probably don’t belong in a referendum that should be strictly focused on relieving Metro Atlanta’s very severe traffic congestion.
By placing critically-needed traffic relief road projects like the reconstruction of the I-20/I-285 West and GA 400/I-285 North interchanges and critically-needed transit upgrades like the MARTA line extension from Lindbergh to Emory University on a list with economic development (the controversial Cobb taxpayer-funded Midtown-Cumberland light rail line and the Atlanta Beltline) and bailout projects (bailout payments to help fund neglected MARTA maintenance items) for voter approval in a tax referendum to be voted on regionwide in a very politically and socially-polarized metropolitan region, the legislature has set this region up for a huge political and economic failure by punting their responsibility to take care of the state’s transportation to the voters.
If you ask the voters if they would like to raise their taxes to give more of their hard-earned money to a state government that they don’t particularly like, respect or trust, what do you expect?
tjatl
June 23rd, 2012
1:03 am
Kyle, if that’s the way you feel, then the logical conclusion is that local jurisdictions should be responsible for their own transportation infrastructure. If what is most important is what is beneficial to your immediate vicinity, you should pay city and county taxes to make the improvements that most benefit you.
Unfortunately, that would make for a potential mess of an uncoordinated supposedly interconnected system of transportation.
Since a regional approach supported by spreading the funding across the region (regardless of whether all or most of the projects benefit “you”) is not what you seem to advocate, would you please articulate why it is not then preferable for local jurisdictions to tax *themselves* to enact the “local control” that would create the most beneficial transportation improvements specific to your own community. I also invite ragnar danneskjold to weigh in.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 23rd, 2012
1:24 am
seriously folks…
June 22nd, 2012
9:26 pm
.
{{”A better use of the money would be to relocate government jobs and private sector jobs further away from the current bottlenecks. Offer housing relocation assistance to incentivise the relocations. This will take cars away from the congested areas AND stimulate the housing market……Never allow incentives to bring jobs to the city, Buckhead, or the perimeter area. This only makes the problem worse.”}}
Though I agree that vehicles need to be taken away from congested areas, it would be a VERY bad idea to attempt to run away jobs and housing investment from urban centers of activity like Downtown (State Capitol, etc), Midtown, Buckhead, Perimeter, Emory University (Centers for Disease Control) and even Cumberland just because a locality does not want to adequately invest in its transportation infrastructure.
Boston is an example of a severely road infrastructure-limited very major metropolitan area and population center of 7.5 million people that has attempted to accommodate its status as the State Capital of Massachusetts and the educational, business, industrial, commercial and political center of New England with an expanded and comprehensive mass transit network that includes water ferries (coastal city), an extensive network of regional commuter rail transit lines and heavy rail transit (the Boston “T”).
Atlanta should not and cannot run some of its major employers (like the state government, the Centers for Disease Control, etc) out of the city just because it does not want to invest in a multimodal transportation network that includes roads, buses and rail transit just like every other major population center on the planet.
{{”And the bigger question is… where are we going to get drinking water for all the new people moving here?”}}
Though water conservation and the construction of man-made lakes and reservoirs that this region and this state should have been building 50-60 years ago like the Dallas-Fort Worth and North Texas Region in conjunction with the State of Texas has done in building more than a dozen major locally-controlled and operated flood control and water supply reservoirs to supplement their two federally controlled and operated reservoirs.
The reservoirs don’t have to be as large as federally-controlled Lakes Allatoona and Lanier, especially considering the political environment that makes the construction of such large reservoirs impossible with Georgia’s ongoing water feuds with neighboring Alabama and Florida as any new water supply and flood control reservoirs can be as small as a neighborhood lake (we can more efficiently build 30-40 small neighborhood and municipal reservoirs as opposed to a dozen Lake Laniers), but additional man-made lakes, preferably smaller neighborhood ones, will have to be built if the Atlanta Region is to remain economically-viable.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 23rd, 2012
2:03 am
Lynn
June 22nd, 2012
8:19 pm
{{”Want the “Northern Arc? This T-splost funds a piecemeal approach to the Arc project (more behind close door planning cheered by pavement lobbyist).”}}
Nor am I a big fan or supporter of this haphazard government cash grab T-SPLOST referendum approach to supposed transportation planning, but the project in question that you speak of, project number TIA-GW-060, the “Sugarloaf Parkway Phase 2 Extension from SR 316 to SR 20 (Buford Drive) – New Alignment”, is NOT a resurrection of the erstwhile-Northern Arc which was cancelled as a state-funded road project by Governor Sonny Perdue shortly after he took office back in 2003 as a result of the public backlash against the Democrats who supported the Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc project.
Project number TIA-GW-060 is an extension of the Gwinnett County government locally-funded and maintained Sugarloaf Parkway local loop around Gwinnett’s county-seat Lawrenceville that is being built in the right-of-way of the old Northern Arc as Gwinnett County never permitted any development to be built in the right-of-way of the cancelled road in anticipation of using the land to build its own locally-funded road which would serve as a bypass to take traffic away from congested historic Downtown Lawrenceville and the severely-congested Mall of Georgia area.
In addition to being a bypass link for Hwy 20 around the eastside of Lawrenceville and a link between Hwy 316, I-85 NE, I-985 and Peachtree Industrial Boulevard, Gwinnett County also needs the road to serve as a connector road/transition road between I-85 Southbound and I-985 Northbound and between I-985 Southbound and I-85 Northbound to take traffic off of busy GA Hwy 20 which goes right by the heavily-congested Mall of Georgia area.
West of Peachtree Industrial Boulevard, where the proposed extension of the Sugarloaf Parkway Loop around Lawrenceville will end, and west across the Chattahoochee River into fervently anti-Northern Arc Forsyth and Cherokee counties, the right-of-way of the old Northern Arc has been filled in almost completely with heavy residential development, making a return of the Northern Arc on that right-of-way totally impossible as there are tens-of-thousands of more people that live in the right-of-way of that erstwhile proposed road today than when the road was an active proposal as local landowners and the local governments in Forsyth and Cherokee counties would collect more profit and tax revenue by turning that land into housing development rather than having the land taken through Eminent Domain and sitting under a highway producing nothing in tax revenue.
The Northern Arc is dead and it ain’t coming back, the Sugarloaf Pkwy Extension only utilizes the right-of-way of the erstwhile proposed road in Gwinnett County as a locally-commissioned thoroughfare that should be fully-funded as a toll road between 316 and P.I.B. as opposed to a partially-funded untolled road that only runs from Hwy 316 to Hwy 20 through the T-SPLOST.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 23rd, 2012
2:13 am
The proposed T-SPLOST only funds a mere fraction of our actual transportation needs (at least the part that is not going to fund questionably-placed economic development boondoggles, bailout initiatives and political favors).
Our multimodal transportation needs can be much more, if not virtually totally, funded by raising the gas tax on all out-of-state drivers and vehicles while abolishing the gas tax for all Georgians, abolishing the 1% sales tax that Fulton and DeKalb counties pay to fund MARTA and instead levying distance-based user fees on each individual major road and each individual bus and rail transit line thereby making each piece of transportation infrastructure financially self-supporting.
Ol' Timer
June 23rd, 2012
5:12 am
I’m older, retired and don’t have a daily commute; but let’s see how this selfish self=interest plays out over time. Five years down the road just ask yourself how that little bit of selfishness worked out for you and your fellow commuters.
Even if you don’t drive the I-20/I-285 corridor, anyone with a modicum of common sense knows it’s a huge problem and needs to be fixed. So to reject it or ignore it because you don’t drive it is not only selfish but stupid.
Typical Republican/Tea Party irrationality.
Road Scholar
June 23rd, 2012
5:52 am
Conservatives have no vision of the future, let alone the present!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 23rd, 2012
6:50 am
Liberals have plenty of visions.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 23rd, 2012
6:54 am
Aren’t the libtards always claiming that the selfish, greedy Republicans vote against their own self interest (quite the paradox, BTW).
Now is our chance to prove them wrong.
@@
June 23rd, 2012
7:19 am
Bruno:
Hillbilly, Dusty, @@, Reporter, Tiberius–Jay chose to honor me on FNM tonight. Please all drop by and put a song up.
Since jay has honored me with a permanent ban, that won’t be possible.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
June 23rd, 2012
7:30 am
Got a birthday, anniversary, or wedding coming up?
Let your friends know how important this election is to you—register with Obama 2012, and ask for a donation in lieu of a gift. It’s a great way to support the President on your big day. Plus, it’s a gift that we can all appreciate—and goes a lot further than a gravy bowl.
Setting up and sharing your registry page is easy–so get started today.
I’d rather have the gravy bowl, to tell you the truth.
So how many of you dhimmicrats would love to participate but can’t because gay marriage isn’t legal yet?
@@
June 23rd, 2012
7:42 am
Too funny, Andy.
This is not just tacky. It’s wacky. Just when you thought the Obama campaign could not sink any lower they prove you wrong.
The comments left on the site are not exactly complimentary:
“Is this what the office of the President of the United States has come to? Pandering for wedding and birthday money?”
“This is sad, sad, sad. My heart is seriously crying here.”
“My six-year-old just lost a lower incisor. He’s going to be SO excited when the tooth fairy leaves him an Obama-Biden donation receipt in his name!”
http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/middle-class-guy/2012/jun/22/obama-event-registry-new-low-trolling-cash/
Have they no shame? Too stoopid to be embarrassed?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 23rd, 2012
7:44 am
I Report, that’s just pathetic.
“Support the pResident on your big day”
It’s all about Obozo, isn’t it? What a self-absorbed putz.
@@
June 23rd, 2012
7:52 am
More comments from Obama’s registry.
Now let’s check the comments for reactions from REAL PEOPLE who visit Barack Obama’s website.
Have I stumbled onto a comedy site?
I smell the smoke of desperation here guys. Seriousl, don’t you find this idea a tad arrogant? However, it is great blog material. Thanks.
IT IS GREAT BLOG MATERIAL!
What a freaking joke… In lieu of birthday, graduation, wedding gifts, etc., make a donation to Barack Obama’s campaign in my name? This is the most absurd thing to come out of his mind to date. What a bunch of ignorant arrogant douch-bags. Sorry to offend real douch-bags but this idiocracy has got to stop.
Oh my God! When is this amateurs hour going to be over with?
What’s next?….should we ask friends and family to send donations to Obama in lieu of bereavement gifts? This is an embarrassment.
http://wonkette.com/476206/barack-obama-would-like-anyone-with-a-gift-registry-to-just-give-to-him-instead
TBone
June 23rd, 2012
7:56 am
This is pretty much a no-brainer; giving more hard earned money to bureaucrats and politicians to “fix” problems created by their lack of vision in the first damn place is stooopid. NO I say.
How Inciteful Is That!
June 23rd, 2012
8:00 am
A little musical tribute to Kyles Konned Kons.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 23rd, 2012
8:04 am
California defeats $1 per pack cigarette tax.
I don’t get it. I thought the answer to budget problems was higher taxes. Are there still enough Americans left in California to impose some fiscal sanity on the Democrat regime there?
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 23rd, 2012
8:11 am
If you want to improve transportation, then you need to fund it by hitting those people who use it the most, NOT spreading it across to everyone.
Improve MARTA? Raise the fees.
Build roads? Raise the gas tax.
But both of these actions would require our elected representatives to grow a pair, which isn’t going to happen anytime soon.
Whirled Peas
June 23rd, 2012
8:22 am
The government has a thousand ways they could save money. But for the politicians it is not fun to cut. It is more fun if they can get us to agree to let them into our pockets and then they can roll out the good times at our expense.
Not this guy. The government needs to learn to live with less.
Big D
June 23rd, 2012
8:51 am
Fixed rail short trip systems start where you aren’t and end where you don’t want to be. Marta is a prime example of this stupidity. The system will not and cannot exist without endless taxpayer subsidies. The solution to traffic congestion is for business to locate in the suburbs where the land is cheaper and the work force plentiful. Traffic congestion is caused by people going to and from work. Move the location of work and the traffic problem will be solved without one dime of tax payer money.
Big D
June 23rd, 2012
8:57 am
@@
June 23rd, 2012
7:52 am
More comments from Obama’s registry.
Great post. I think Obama’s next move will be to ask the unemployed to donate a portion of their unemploymnet compensation via a direct deduction. This president has no shame.
Grasshopper
June 23rd, 2012
9:01 am
Voting for T-SPLOST is akin to voting yourself a 1 percent pay cut. And it will NOT improve traffic one iota.
Vote NO.
skydog
June 23rd, 2012
9:17 am
This is fun watching these goobers NOT funding raw Deal and the Chamber of Republicans!
Choke um down. I`m in.
Steve Dunbar
June 23rd, 2012
9:20 am
Kyle is the perfect Republican. It’s all about me. No thought that every once and a while we have to do something for the common good.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 23rd, 2012
9:27 am
Conservatives have no vision of the future, let alone the present!
Yes, we do Road, and it is frightful for our children and grandchildren. Never ending taxes, debt, and interest on the debt. They deserve better!
marko
June 23rd, 2012
9:35 am
What do get when cross a Jewish carpenter, Jesus, with a Russian atheist, Ayn Rand? A modern conservative. Evidently what Kennedy meant to say was ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country can do for you. Brother can you spare a tax cut? I’ll say one thing, for Ayn, the old girl was honest. She saw that her moral philosophy differed a hundred and eighty degrees from the one espoused by Jesus. Therefore she rejected Christianity. A man cannot serve two masters. You can’t serve both God and Money. That’d be Matthew 6:24 folks. Jesus choose to serve the poor and down trodden. Ayn took the greed is good option.
Enough tirade for now. I believe Kyle was trying to make a comment about T-Splost. There’s an old saying, you get what you pay for. A totally ridiculous expression. We’d all be happy if we got what we paid for. Is T-splost a regional solution to our obvious transportation problems, or a collection of localized boondoggle’s? I’m inclined to believe it’s the later. I don’t mind using my hard earned money to serve others, but it’s too hard to come by to simply throw it away. I’m not opposed to a plan in principal, but this looks a little too much like kids fighting over a candy bar.
Spartacus
June 23rd, 2012
9:40 am
Hmmmm…..let’s see now. We’re already a metro area of 6 million. So we want to build more roads, rail, and buses for “growth”. Why, so we can be a city of TEN million? Don’t we have enough lefty Yankees here already??
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
June 23rd, 2012
9:43 am
Kept all my receipts one year – everything – to see how much I was taxed. Came out to around 57% – too much. When you assume 60% to 70% of this money would be wasted through graft, general incompetence, etc., I will be voting “NO!”. They take way too much of my money now.
Spartacus
June 23rd, 2012
9:43 am
Besides, we don’t have enough water for more Yankees and growth….just sayin’
Streetracer
June 23rd, 2012
10:01 am
If I remember high school civics right (and I may not, it was almost 50 years ago and I’m just a dumb a$$ chemE, not a really smart public admin or gender studies or whatever grad) the basic, core functions of government are 1. national defense, 2. public safety, and 3. stable economic system. Infrastructure to support those functions is implicit to basic government responsibility. If that is true, why are we not getting infrastructure improvements from current tax assements? Shouldn’t special taxes be proposed to support non-basic government operations?
carlosgvv
June 23rd, 2012
10:10 am
Since my interests are keeping politicians from taking more tax money and using it for their personal gain, I will vote no.
zeke
June 23rd, 2012
10:45 am
To be a true patriot, CUT GOVERNMENT FUNDING BY RAPING TAXPAYERS FOR SOME FEEL GOOD SOCIALIST AGENDA PROGRAMS OFF! The problem with this albatross is that IT WILL DO NOTHING TO EASE CONGESTION! Anyone who even thinks this ridiculous expansion of marta will reduce congestion needs to be put into an insane asylum! It is simple! YOU REDUCE TRAFFIC BY REROUTING TRAFFIC WITH NO DESTINATION INSIDE 285 AWAY FROM 285! The Outer Loop or some direct route with little or no interchanges from interstate to interstate! A worker going from Covington to a job in Marietta or Newnan should never have to go into the perimeter area! And, although not a part of this insane tax area, the proposed Paulding bypass is a prime example of how to ease congestion!!
obozo
June 23rd, 2012
10:50 am
R u gowing intu duh militaree? R we shippen u off to wor? Then donate all ur belongins to duh Obama 2012. Dont throw all that stuff away. Give it tu us and will pawn it off and win back the presidency just for u. You dont need all that junk in Afghaneestaan anyway.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 23rd, 2012
10:51 am
Funny, when the DOD asks for more money the left goes apoplectic and says the DOD is always gearing up to fight last years war.
Yet, they never question other big government boondoggles, like the GA DOT fighting last years congestion.
obozo
June 23rd, 2012
10:53 am
Skip out on ur next Government Motors car payment and will tell them to piss off for you. All you have to do is give half the monee to us, Obama 2012!
Big D
June 23rd, 2012
10:56 am
Steve Dunbar
June 23rd, 2012
9:20 am
Kyle is the perfect Republican. It’s all about me. No thought that every once and a while we have to do something for the common good
Just what is the common good? My experience is the “common good” is usually a goal of a special interest group to satisfy the wants of that particular group. Democrats as an example want higher taxes for their own common good. They have an insatiable desire to spend other peoples money on their own selfish wants. One of their current “common good” programs is to find ways to increase taxes on U.S. Citizens to give the money to the United Nations. Another, is the fraud they have perpetrated on us to entice us into spending our money on anything they call “green”. Their needs are endless but the source of funding is never their own pocket. There is nothing common about the common good. I would respect the common good argument if the proponents actually funded the common good project. The present argument is that building a road is for the common good. No it isn’t. If may benefit those who happen to live in that area. But common, no. Mass transit is another “common good” program, Again, no.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 23rd, 2012
11:01 am
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/22/green-drivel
Interesting article on a hot Saturday. The Godfather of global warming, an Al Gore disciple, says he may have overdone it on the alarmist rhetoric and says this settled science stuff is nonsense.
If all these scientist overstated GW, do you think maybe the DOT just might have overstated the benefits of T-Splost. When there is money to be made by some, never underestimate the level of deception that may be involved.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 23rd, 2012
11:11 am
zeke
June 23rd, 2012
10:45 am
Your suggestion is to revisit the political slaughterhouse that is known in Georgia history as the Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc?
You know that after watching the long-controlling Democrat Party get thrown out head first, largely for their support of what became an increasingly unpopular Outer Perimeter than Northern Arc proposal, the dominant and now-ruling Republican Party won’t touch that proposal with a 10,000-foot long pole, no matter how practical it actually is and despite the fact that it is perfectly normal for many cities, both auto-oriented (like Dallas, Houston and Miami) and transit-heavy (like Chicago, Washington DC, Toronto, Boston) to have outer bypasses.
obozo
June 23rd, 2012
11:22 am
R ur folks gittin along in the years? Have they becum a royal pain in the a$$ four u? Can you no longer stay high all day, like us, becuz they r always callin u about being hungry and needing there diaper changed? Well, we r the guvernment and we our here tu help! Just bring them tu the Obama 2012 Kampaign Headquarters and will eliminate them under Health Care Law Section XL859(T)34EQS-BC567 Chapter 7,367,856 Sub Section Q. But you need to hurry before that orangutang and his racist white rich buddies on the Supreme Court throw the whole law out. Offer good only this weekend only, we think.
Be sure to bring all of your parents financial information along with you, credit card numbers, bank accounts, stocks, bonds, munis, iras, foreign holdings, corporate earnings, offshore accounts, currencies, coins, stamps, look under the mattress and dig around in the backyard if the mood strikes. Bring all that with you and will set u free!
Steve Dunbar
June 23rd, 2012
11:28 am
Big D
Please source for me your comment that “Democrats…find ways to increase taxs on U.S. Citizens to give the money to the United Nations”. Your comment, you wroteit. . I want to know the source. Let me give you some choices
the late Roy Harris
1) Sarah
2) Neal /Neil
3) Glenn Beck
4) The Donald
5) Newt
6) Fox News
7) the late Lester Maddox
9) Hannity
10) Rush
11) some guy that sits next to me at Starbucks.
Aquagirl
June 23rd, 2012
11:32 am
The present argument is that building a road is for the common good. No it isn’t.
What both you and Kyle fail to understand is that the other people affect your lives. Let’s say congestion kills a restaurant…customers won’t fight the traffic to get there. Your next-door neighbor then loses his restaurant job. Then he defaults on his house. Now you’re wondering why crackheads live next door and you’re underwater on your mortgage because Ayn Rand didn’t ’splain that to ya.
Modern conservatism is a dangerous combination of selfish and dumb.
Ol' Timer
June 23rd, 2012
11:45 am
The 1% tax is insignificant — it’s not the issue. What is the issue is the unwillingness of a certain faction to plan for the future. Infrastructure is so essential to the health and wellbeing of a local economy and not to plan for it is irrational. It’s stupid.
Let’s see how a deteriorating infrastructure will play into your future. A front-end alignment will cost more that the 1% sales tax. But I don’t guess one can expect some people to look beyond the next talking point by some disciple of Grover Norquist.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 23rd, 2012
11:51 am
Modern conservatism is a dangerous combination of selfish and dumb.
Modern collectivism is a dangerous combination of envy, sloth, apathy, and lack of motivation.
Corey
June 23rd, 2012
12:01 pm
Those of you here commenting about the silly beltline do realize that construction on the beltline is already underway? You do realize that some of the parks along the beltline are already open? You do realize the rail overpass on Ponce near City Hall East is being retrofitted? You do realize that the beltline is moving forward with or without T-SPLOST? You do realize that commuter buses are already being rerouted downtown to accomodate construction and moving utility lines to make way for the street car project? While you fling mud at the beltline and street car, progress is already underway for those proojects with or without the T-SPLOST. In other words, your railing against them is a waste of time.
Samantha
June 23rd, 2012
12:06 pm
I will vote NO on TSPLOST. Our leaders must do better than this!
How Inciteful Is That!
June 23rd, 2012
12:31 pm
What revenue stream will be used to fund these projects, assuming they will ultimately be funded projects one way or another, if it is not a sales tax?
@@
June 23rd, 2012
12:53 pm
@ 11:46 & 11:50:
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
MiltonMan
June 23rd, 2012
1:25 pm
Kyle, you really do have friends who are asking for your advice how to vote on T-SPOLST???
Pal, you need new friends.
MiltonMan
June 23rd, 2012
1:26 pm
“Conservatives have no vision of the future, let alone the present!”
As opposed to Rat Roy Barnes who stole money from Ga400 toll for his buddies pet projects.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 23rd, 2012
1:27 pm
“The Godfather of global warming, an Al Gore disciple, says he may have overdone it on the alarmist rhetoric and says this settled science stuff is nonsense.”
AmVet is now walking back on his support?
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 23rd, 2012
1:30 pm
“What revenue stream will be used to fund these projects, assuming they will ultimately be funded projects one way or another, if it is not a sales tax?”
As stated before, Inciteful, raise the gas tax to fund road construction. That way, the people who use them pay for them according to actual use.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 23rd, 2012
1:33 pm
“Let’s say congestion kills a restaurant…customers won’t fight the traffic to get there.”
Or, how about reality, and let’s say that too much traffic has never killed a restaurant in the history of mankind.
How Inciteful Is That!
June 23rd, 2012
1:40 pm
As hybrid and electric vehicle use increase, a gas tax becomes less capable of collecting taxes from actual users. Also, natural gas is used by some as well. Is it taxed according to use? A gas tax also does not provide funding for rail. Perhaps state and local roads should all be converted to toll roads in order to make sure that users are truly taxed according to their usage.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 23rd, 2012
1:45 pm
“As hybrid and electric vehicle use increase, a gas tax becomes less capable of collecting taxes from actual users.”
Given the slow pace of both those technologies, we’ll still get far more income from a gas tax increase (and it is still taken from those who actually USE the roads) than we would in 10 years of TSPLOST.
“A gas tax also does not provide funding for rail.”
Rail should fund rail. If rail can’t fund rail, then rail shouldn’t exist.
“Perhaps state and local roads should all be converted to toll roads in order to make sure that users are truly taxed according to their usage.”
What do you think a gas tax is?
@@
June 23rd, 2012
1:46 pm
Obama talks student loans in weekly radio address; ignores gov’t role in spiking college costs
IT’S THE ECONOMY, stoopid!
What’s wrong with this guy (Obama)?????
How Inciteful Is That!
June 23rd, 2012
1:50 pm
What do you think a gas tax is?
A tax that inadequately reflects actual road usage since it does not account for fuel type or fuel efficiency or vehicle weight, etc. Tolls account for actual use of a specific length of road and is a natural extension of the argument that rail users should pay for rail since rail users are effectively charged a toll for the use of said length of rail.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 23rd, 2012
1:52 pm
“What’s wrong with this guy (Obama)?????”
So many answers – so little time.
Easier to say, “Just about everything”.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 23rd, 2012
1:55 pm
How ever, a toll is an inefficient way to collect revenues, as it requires personnel and extra facilities. In addition, time and energy are wasted at toll plazas. Additionally, how do you fund ALL roads if you just have tolls on certain roads? You do.
A gas tax is the most effective AND efficient way to provide funding for road construction.
Hillbilly D
June 23rd, 2012
1:56 pm
From a historical perspective, rail has never paid it’s own way. The land for all those RRs that went to the west, in the 1800’s, was given to the RRs by the government. Usually they got the land for the track and 10 miles on either side of it. That’s how many of the great RR fortunes were built. Subsidizing winners and losers isn’t exactly new.
As for the motor fuel tax, fuel efficiency and vehicle weight, usually go hand in hand. Tractor trailers use more fuel per mile than econo-boxes. And no matter what size of vehicle, the more it uses the road, the more tax it’s going to pay.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 23rd, 2012
1:57 pm
Rather, you DON’T.
How Inciteful Is That!
June 23rd, 2012
2:12 pm
Alternative fuels (electricity, natural gas, etc.) are not currently taxed and therefore users of said fuels are not adequately represented through the use of the gas tax. Also, regardless of fuel efficiency and fuel consumption versus weight arguments, a fuel tax can never map specific road usage as accurately as a toll so if the goal is to truly make the users of a given length of road pay then a toll is the more accurate method of accomplishing that task. On a side note, the Peach Pass overcomes the limitations of the traditional toll booth.
Hillbilly D
June 23rd, 2012
2:18 pm
The problem with tolls is that multi-generational people from this area, hate tolls with a passion. We’ve hated them since the days of the bridges and ferries that all the roads you travel on now are named after. We just don’t like paying tolls and especially for roads that have already been built, with our tax dollars.
What Hosea Williams used to call “the Downtown Power Structure” started pushing the idea of tolls at least 30 years ago and they still haven’t made believers out of the common people.
RC--apoi
June 23rd, 2012
2:28 pm
Well, I see my exit ramp from GA 400 to Simpsons Trailer Park never made the list. So I’m voting a big NO. I say let the traffic back up. I’ll be plumb dead by the time it comes to a stand-still. Right now it ain’t in my Interest to vote for this boondoggle. Great thinking, Wingfield. You know, you might could make a pretty good Conservative Republican. Besides, this thing is a Tax. I might could feel different if it was a Fee, but I’ll never vote for a Tax.
How Inciteful Is That!
June 23rd, 2012
2:37 pm
And the problem with taxes is that people from this area hate them. I see a future for more dirt roads.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 23rd, 2012
2:37 pm
Hillbilly D
June 23rd, 2012
2:18 pm
I get your point. Though, personally, I don’t mind paying a toll if it means that a new expressway will get built sooner than it would have otherwise been built.
In fact, since the state claims that the gas tax has become wholly inadequate in funding road maintenance and construction, the state should probably exempt all Georgians from the state gas tax, dramatically increase the gas tax as it would only be paid by out-of-state drivers, and levy distance-based user fees on each major road in place of the gas tax so that each major road becomes self-funding and pays for its own maintenance and upkeep.
The more that one drives, the more that they pay in user fees. The less that one drives, the less that one pays in user fees.
Hillbilly D
June 23rd, 2012
2:44 pm
I grew up on a dirt road. I survived it just fine.
Corey
June 23rd, 2012
2:45 pm
In addition, jobs have already been created in Alpharetta and people are already building electrical components for the electrical engines for those silly street cars to run on Atlanta streets downtown. Keep flinging mud if it makes you feel good.
How Inciteful Is That!
June 23rd, 2012
2:48 pm
I’m quite familiar with dirt roads too and I too have survived. Wouldn’t I-285 be a trip as a dirt road!
Hillbilly D
June 23rd, 2012
2:52 pm
Inciteful
If I-285 was a dirt road, people might have to slow down and not drive like fools.
I remember when there was no 285, !-20 was being built over around Gresham Road and I-85 ended at Norcross. Funny how every time they built a new road, more people came in to fill it up. I remember when the Downtown Connector was the be-all, end-all of fixing Atlanta’s traffic problems. Then it was 285, then Spaghetti Junction and on and on.
They need to find something to base the economy on, other than wide open growth and development. North Georgia is already overtaxed on it’s water resources and that will only get worse.
How Inciteful Is That!
June 23rd, 2012
2:58 pm
I remember when they first opened I-285, we would gather at the local Shoney’s and make bets on who could make the round trip the fastest. We should rent out I-285 for use as a race track and use the proceeds to fund more race tracks.
Hillbilly D
June 23rd, 2012
3:18 pm
RC
You still haven’t figured out the correct usage of “might could”, I see. Some things never change,
Melaine
June 23rd, 2012
3:25 pm
WSJ has an interesting article that has Georgia on a very short list. It should give the citizens of Georgia something to think about. With the upcoming election this July 31, several items on the ballot may need to be paid close attention to. http://247wallst.com/2012/03/22/americas-most-corrupt-states/
md
June 23rd, 2012
3:40 pm
Corruption in governments where folks get to spend other peoples money? Tell me it isn’t so….
Maybe we need to tie in some kind of clawback clause into our contracts with gov’t officials and I bet we’d see a change in that behavior……make them personally responsible. The gov’t had no problem doing the same with regulations on finance and nursing homes (and I’m sure others)……let them be accountable the same way.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 23rd, 2012
3:50 pm
Hillbilly D
June 23rd, 2012
2:52 pm
{{”I remember when there was no 285, !-20 was being built over around Gresham Road and I-85 ended at Norcross. Funny how every time they built a new road, more people came in to fill it up. I remember when the Downtown Connector was the be-all, end-all of fixing Atlanta’s traffic problems. Then it was 285, then Spaghetti Junction and on and on.”}}
The problem is not that it was just people coming from nearby to use those new roads, it was people coming from all over the country (the Midwest, the Northeast and other parts of the South) and the world moving into the area and using those new roads.
{{”They need to find something to base the economy on, other than wide open growth and development. North Georgia is already overtaxed on it’s water resources and that will only get worse.”}}
Why should they? Heck, up until recently anyway, wide open growth and development has been an increasingly big business, though our very disturbing recent economic and water troubles may put the kaboshes on that over the long run.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 23rd, 2012
4:02 pm
“so if the goal is to truly make the users of a given length of road pay then a toll is the more accurate method of accomplishing that task.”
And if that actually WAS the goal, that would be a great idea.
Alas, it is NOT the goal. The goal is to raise funds to build LOTS of roads, not specific ones that could efficiently and effectively generate revenue.
If you think TSPLOST has that goal in mind, you need to do a LOT more homework.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 23rd, 2012
4:04 pm
“Alternative fuels (electricity, natural gas, etc.) are not currently taxed and therefore users of said fuels are not adequately represented through the use of the gas tax.”
And for the 1% of people who use these alternative fuels, I’m OK with missing out on their revenue, just as long as I don’t have to pay more of my share through a general sales tax on ALL my purchases.
A Realist
June 23rd, 2012
4:08 pm
Yes, vote for how much anything affects you, right now. That works…
Just like the tried and true method of buying auto insurance to cover a wreck you just had.
And hey, why pay for roads and things that only commuters and people with cars use. We don’t need them anyway. They don’t pay for themselves. I can walk to most everything I use.
Let’s let each community only pay for its own stuff – and create road capacity only for its own residents. Every else can just tough it out. And also, why pay for highway patrol when you drive the speed limit (or just slightly above) – we don’t need ‘em. Or the courts, or for that matter, why should we pay for hospitals if we aren’t sick? Or jails we don’t stay in? Or police… my community is pretty safe.
And why should I pay for clean rivers if I don’t swim in them? And who cares where my sewage goes, it doesn’t stay in my yard, it goes away somehow! And I’ll just burn my leaves, and fire departments … naah, I have a garden hose. I don’t need ambulances since I don’t get sick – stop lights, etc. those are for wimps.
I don’t have kids in school, so why should I pay for them, and I don’t require any state or federal services, so I shouldn’t pay those taxes either.
Yes, Kyle, you just made my life sooooo much easier! Thanks!
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 23rd, 2012
4:39 pm
Tiberius
There was a proposal, discussed quite vigorously out in I believe Washington State, one of our most liberal states, where they were going to tax you on miles driven each year. This was back when they feared that alternative vehicles, electric and nat gas, were going to allow people not to buy gas.
They had worked out an agreement with the car manufacturers and developed a little chip to put in each car that would ID the car and the driver. The chip would communicate with the Revenuers through satellite technology and once a year you would be billed per mile driven. Of course the people with common sense opposed vigorously the notion of the government spying on you, but the enviroweenies, were in love at first sight.
Don’t know what happened; they seemed close to implementation, but I think, the alternate fuels just didn’t work out like they planned, big surprise. Haven’t heard it discussed for the last several years.
Old Timer
June 23rd, 2012
4:41 pm
Problem is–youplass TSPLOST, the roads get reworked. travel time is less, people say this is great. We attract more businees, traffic again is at a stand still and we are right back to where we started. Public transit has to be the answer–not fix the roads. If the roads are important let the auto manufacturers contribute.
tjatl
June 23rd, 2012
4:43 pm
@ Realist – totally agree! I mean, really – let’s do away with federal and state funds for transportation infrastructure (hey, “tax cut!”). Get rid of a state gas tax. Give the roads within their borders over to the local municipality or county. Let local jurisdictions be responsible for their own construction and maintenance.
That way, they can both figure out what best serves THEM and how to fund it. Local responsibility, local control, total freedom. What’s not to love about that?
So voters in, say, Cobb County can slap up toll booths if that’s what they choose to do. Another could tax gasoline sales in their county. If folks in the mountains want an outer loop, they can go for it. If a little town in rural GA simply MUST have one of those fashionable and ubiquitous four lane highways to nowhere, they can figure out how to pay for it. City of Atlanta voters could put a sales tax on all those attractions, sports tickets, hotels, airport, etc. — and KEEP IT ALL to themselves!
Hey – maybe this “Me, Me, Mine, Mine” mentality would be pretty good for me personally….
A Realist
June 23rd, 2012
4:51 pm
tj….
yep – sounds good – let’s put toll booths on the interstates into town, and use the money to help remove all the exhaust pollution … or give discounts to small and/or electric vehicles!
When folks realize they need to travel by some other means (maybe a private company would build a light rail system!), we could cut down some of those excessive lanes, and convert it back into taxable land. We could put condos next to the smaller interstates so commuters could continue to move back into town. Nice idea!
How Inciteful Is That!
June 23rd, 2012
4:51 pm
Dirt roads it is then.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 23rd, 2012
5:06 pm
Old Timer
June 23rd, 2012
4:41 pm
{{{”Problem is–youplass TSPLOST, the roads get reworked. travel time is less, people say this is great. We attract more businees, traffic again is at a stand still and we are right back to where we started. Public transit has to be the answer–not fix the roads. If the roads are important let the auto manufacturers contribute.”}}}
A well thought-out and deliberate mix of BOTH roads and transit has to be the answer.
We can’t ignore transit as there is not necessarily all that much, if any, room to expand the road network inside of I-285 (and in many places OUTSIDE of I-285 as well).
We can’t ignore the roads, either as a great deal of the pain experienced by commuters on the Interstates is caused by cross-country and interstate heavy truck and vacationeer traffic passing through Atlanta on the way to somewhere else.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 23rd, 2012
5:22 pm
It was Oregon, here is a link to their plan to tax vehicles by miles driven, an Orwellian scheme. They propose to use smart phones to report the mileage.
http://www.kgw.com/news/ODOT-lawmakers-to-study-tax-on-miles-driven-158456335.html
catlady
June 23rd, 2012
5:26 pm
I am pretty liberal, but I will NEVER vote for another SPLOST, another bond issue, or another change to the Georgia constitution (that I can imagine, anyway).
In my section of the state there is NOTHING that benefits the people of my county unless they drive 60 miles away. But even if there were improvements in my area, I have not ONE WHIT of trust that the money will be properly spent.
Cases in point: GA 400—LIE, local county splosts–LIE.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 23rd, 2012
5:29 pm
We’ve got to address the roads, especially the Interstates, as Atlanta sits at a nexus of three major Interstate corridors that carry A LOT of cross-country traffic.
I-75, which passes through Atlanta from northwest to southeast, carries very heavy truck traffic from the Port of Savannah to the interior of the continent by way of Atlanta. I-75 also carries a GREAT deal of very heavy vacation and tourist traffic between the heavily-populated Great Lakes Region (Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, Ontario, etc) and the resort areas of Florida, especially during vacation periods.
I-85, which passes through Atlanta from northeast to southwest, carries very heavy truck traffic and very heavy vacation traffic between the heavily-industrial areas of the Gulf Coast and the population centers of the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast.
East-West I-20 carries a great deal of cross-country traffic between the West Coast, North Texas and the South-Atlantic coastal seaports (Savannah, Charleston, Wilmington and Norfolk).
It’s not just local commuters that contribute to the increasingly-heavy traffic on the freeways, a lot of the traffic is cross-country/Interstate traffic passing through on the way to somewhere else, which is why the roads, especially the Interstates, cannot continue to be neglected just like transit cannot continue to be neglected as there is a distinct lack of physical space and political will to make massive expansions to the road network, not just in the densely-populated areas inside of I-285, but in the heavily-residential areas outside of I-285 as well.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 23rd, 2012
5:40 pm
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer’s ineptocracy
June 23rd, 2012
5:22 pm
{{{”It was Oregon, here is a link to their plan to tax vehicles by miles driven, an Orwellian scheme. They propose to use smart phones to report the mileage.”}}}
They don’t need to use smart phones to record everyone’s individual amount of miles driven.
They only need to use the tolling technology that is already in use to charge tolls without stopping at toll booths including on Georgia 400 and on the I-85 HOT lanes to bill by tag number.
The state could get ahead of the curve on transportation funding by discontinuing the gas tax on all Georgia drivers and vehicles, raising the gas tax to the top third of all state on all out-of-state drivers and switching to a system of levying distance-based user fees on all major roads so that each individual major road becomes capable of funding its own initial construction, maintenance and upkeep.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 23rd, 2012
6:18 pm
I love how the libs are falling in line behind Our Governor Deal and the Republican legislature on this one!
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 23rd, 2012
6:27 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward–Again)
June 23rd, 2012
6:18 pm
{{{”I love how the libs are falling in line behind Our Governor Deal and the Republican legislature on this one!”}}}
Some of the liberal Intowners, however, many of them are not because they’re already paying a 1% tax to “fund” MARTA and because they think that their tax dollars will be used mostly to fund road widenings for suburban and exurban commuters who hate their guts…Just like suburbanites hate the tax because think it will go to fund the construction of the Atlanta Beltline, long-neglected operations and maintenance for a mismanaged MARTA and extensions of said mismanaged MARTA into their suburban counties with the help of a wildly dysfunctional and spectacularly incompetent Georgia Department of Transportation.
Uncle Billy
June 23rd, 2012
6:57 pm
I came to Georgia in 1864 and taught you a lesson you will not forget. Don’t tempt me to come again. You will not like it!!!!!!!!!
Don't Tread
June 23rd, 2012
7:07 pm
My interests are not to fund yet another slush fund with my money.
Hillbilly D
June 23rd, 2012
7:17 pm
A man who’s been dead since 1891 doesn’t put much fear in folks.
Streetracer
June 23rd, 2012
7:28 pm
Hillybilly D:
I agree, but Uncle Billy should remember that Sherman really didn’t much like war. He was just real good at it.
sirwinston
June 23rd, 2012
7:48 pm
Voting for this upcoming T-SPLOST or whatever it is called make’s those who put it on the table want’s to say great things it will do; however, where are the stock-pile of money that is sitting and not in use. Yet, they want us to pay more. It is like having someone else bank card in your pocket and when you use it, other get the money right away and you are left with monthly bills with interest. It is time we all stop paying for others to profit and we see nothing in return. That is how it is all over, more taxes for projects that we never see; GA400 toll road paid for, making millions and still they want to charge toll fees after the tax use to build and pay it off. There are this pain that keep’s bother me about how these peope continue to come up with project and bring us into them. We can’t live in a better country, but we are suffering living in these cities knowing that transportation (fix’s) will never be done! What, some counties will move from 6 to 7% sale taxes, 7-9 % sale taxes and what more do they want us to pay. I am not buying into anyone of them because paying more taxes and there is never a return to lower it I don’t care if it is 1 cent, that’s millions of dollars. Building all of these highways that goes nowhere and run right back into the same road they continue to widen and expand don’t make a bit of sense……to me that is. You see, no matter where they want to use this T-SPLOST or whatever it is called, major highways back ups and sitting in traffic for hours is not going to stop. Street Cars…….created more problems; nothing about this “Northern Arc” deal where did that money go and did it get started? My vote will be no until we can actually see a foot-print where all of this building of highway is taking us………and we will be right back here again talking about this T-SPLOST again for an additional 1 cent in a few months after July. Transportation is a mess like Delta Airline want to charge for bags and continue to bring things into their profit gains. Delta is like pump; it suck every dime from those who have to travel on it; I also think they need to remin themselves that if it were not for passengers they would not be in business. Sooner or later, there is going to be another airline that will treat us better than delta. We need not be charge for bags that is checked in, its in the ticket that we can carry or check in a bag but why be charge an 25$ fee. Delta is greedy and greed bankrupt business is it T-DELTA now?. That is my investigation and perhaps your’s too. Let’s see how many people are listening. And I really want to see how many people is going to vote for this TSPLOST bill.
obozo
June 23rd, 2012
9:10 pm
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Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 23rd, 2012
9:17 pm
Too funny, obozo! Woof!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 23rd, 2012
9:21 pm
Democrats always vote in their own selfish interests, for the candidate who promises to give them the most stuff.
Democrats always claim Republicans vote against their own self interest by supporting spending cuts.
Democrats: Greedy, selfish Marxists.
Republicans: Responsible, altruistic Americans.
Johns creek
June 23rd, 2012
9:37 pm
I looked at the project list to see if it would reduce my commute time and none of the projects on the list will help me. in fact the project list will shift the traffic bottlenecks to the roads i drive. I am voting my self interest and I am voting NO. Wouldn’t it be silly for people to pay higher taxes because they think it will help someone else, and in the end no one is helped? We find the common good when everyone votes in their own self interest and we can then see if there is a majority among the voters. If there is not, then the proposal does not help a majority of people.
m
June 23rd, 2012
9:37 pm
The people that created the project list were thinking of themselves by insisting that certain projects be included. I’ll support this if you’ll support that kinda pork.
Dusty
June 23rd, 2012
9:47 pm
Sherman was good at war?? Yeah, just about as good as Genghis Kahn.
In today’s times, “scorched earth”, such as Sherman ordered against a whole state, would be considered a crime against humanity by a War Criminal Court.
That is why Sherman is remembered in the South long past a century His orders made degenerate warfare not soon forgotten in history.
Today there is no approval in military circles for “scorched earth” in whole provinces.. His “burn everything”,in part, made recovery slow for decades which not only affected the South but the whole USA.
Disgusted
June 23rd, 2012
10:14 pm
Today there is no approval in military circles for “scorched earth” in whole provinces.. His “burn everything”,in part, made recovery slow for decades which not only affected the South but the whole USA.
Check out the use of “strategic bombing” of Germany in World War II, in which the whole purpose was to wreak destruction of the populace, destruction so vast that it was believed that the populace would pressure the leadership to end the war—thus the term strategic. We like to think that we’re more humane than Sherman was, but it’s not totally true. What the U.S. and Great Britain did in World War II was intended to have the same effect as Sherman hoped to wreak in his determination “to make Georgia howl.” Humanity and war haven’t changed that much in the past 148 years. When war gets down to the determination of whether a nation is to survive, just about anything’s fair game.
Hillbilly D
June 23rd, 2012
10:21 pm
Disgusted
I agree with you about the bombing in WWII but if our troops had done the same thing in Iraq or Arghanistan (scorched earth), I think the howling would come from people here. Of course, WWII was seen as a war for survival, here at home. That’s probably the only time in U.S. history that the country has been united for more than a short period of time.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 23rd, 2012
10:43 pm
Of course, being from the North originally, I never thought Sherman was such a bad guy . . .
Hillbilly D
June 23rd, 2012
10:49 pm
Tiberius
And I thought your folks were Canadian at that time.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 23rd, 2012
10:57 pm
They were Hillbilly D, but I was brought up in Massachusetts, so we were taught North = Good, South = Bad.
Later I figured out that the South was more in the right based on their positions (other than slavery), but just picked a fight with too big of an opponent.
Hillbilly D
June 23rd, 2012
11:08 pm
Tiberius
Read the book, “Born Fighting” sometime. It’s a pretty good description of why folks in my part of the world are the way we are. We seem to thrive on conflict.
As to the Late Unpleasantness, I think it was avoidable if Abe and Jeff Davis (among others) hadn’t been so determined that they were going to have their war. Like most folks, they thought it would be over quickly. The only two major figures (as opposed to minor figures) I know of who expected it to be a long war were Sherman and R E Lee. Lee wrote a letter to his wife mentioning that it could well last 10 years.
I still believe, and always will, that if the people of state can freely enter the Union, they should be just as free to leave it, if they so choose.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 23rd, 2012
11:11 pm
“I still believe, and always will, that if the people of state can freely enter the Union, they should be just as free to leave it, if they so choose.”
Agreed!
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 23rd, 2012
11:14 pm
And thanks for the book recommendation.
But now, my bed calls to me after a long day. Good night, Hillbilly D.
Bob
June 24th, 2012
1:38 am
The comments here are obnoxious — the one thing liberals and conservatives can agree on with respect to the role of government is that it should build the bloody roads, and yet you’ve got some people who actually argue that we shouldn’t do that. There’s a word for such people: Anarchists. And if you’re an anarchist, hey, there’s a proud tradition of you guys — and although your societies quickly fall to ruins, with everyone ending up poor or dead, at least you’re able to say that you’ve fought against the evil of having to live in a society with other people…which you all hate for some reason.
(You know, I’ve often wondered why we have so many of you anarchists lately. I think, honestly, that we as a people have become so stupid that we can no longer govern ourselves — but rather than trying, this lot just suggests that we burn down everything. Because nothing fixes a problem better than being lazy and angry…)
But that’s not what I’m here to say. What I’m here to say is that Kyle’s right, and it’s not a conservative or liberal proposition he’s proposing. We’re trying to decide how to allocate funds? Alright. Presumably we want to allocate them to the projects that will do the most good for the most people. So how do we find that out? We let people tell us what they need. How? By voting. But that only works if you tell the government what YOU need. If you tell it what you think someone else needs…the whole thing doesn’t work. We need millions of data points to figure out what people need — your votes are those data points, and the more accurate they are the better. So, yes, vote your needs — and your neighbor will vote his, and so on. And then we’ll know what to do. Nothing controversial about that.
Cal
June 24th, 2012
7:30 am
What’s best for the region, I told him, is for everyone to decide what’s best for themselves, and vote accordingly.
Why has Wingfield received criticism for his statement when dems support it? Latinos, gays, women, blacks, all vote for what best serves them. We are a divided nation thanks to the dems promotion of special interests groups.
Single-issue voters don’t have America’s best interest at heart. It’s all about what’s in it for them.
How Inciteful Is That!
June 24th, 2012
7:56 am
And July was picked as the best time to find out what the people that turn out to vote actually want from a list of jobs that someone put together using some form of input from someone. Uh huh. Right. Yep. No doubt about it.
Eric
June 24th, 2012
8:06 am
There’s still no proof that increasing the tax will reduce congestion, which is the results of overdevelopment. It is overdevelopment under pro-business policies that got us into this mess. Since this is not being addressed by policy makers, I won’t vote for the tax. The tax is simply a band aid on a leaking ship. I won’t be fooled this time around. VOTE NO.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 24th, 2012
8:21 am
“And July was picked as the best time to find out what the people that turn out to vote actually want from a list of jobs that someone put together using some form of input from someone.”
Actually, Inciteful, July is about as good as November when it comes to voter participation. There are usually plenty of hotly contested local races that bring out lots of voters in the primary. I would have preferred November, but July is fine with me as well.
How Inciteful Is That!
June 24th, 2012
8:28 am
I believe having the issue on the November ballot would draw the biggest number of voters, Tiberius, given that it is also a presidential election but I will concede to any data you provide that demonstrates otherwise. As I recall, there was even quite a bit of discussion earlier in the year regarding the selection of a July time slot as opposed to November.
The Social Diva
June 24th, 2012
8:45 am
Sorry, if they could come up with real ideas that are within a reasonable budget maybe I could get onboard. As it stands, it more of the wasteful spending of more bike paths and parks. Enough! We cannot afford that and certainly not to the tune of billions. Otherwise it’s more rail (ergo Marta) and that has proven to be painfully expensive and always in the red. Neither are worth the money spent. But the real reality is that they have NO concrete plan in place and just want the money to spend as they wish. More government waste!
Big D
June 24th, 2012
8:52 am
Steve Dunbar
June 23rd, 2012
11:28 am
I will not do your research for you. Apparently you are either comprehension impaired or you refuse to see that with which you disagree. It has been “commonly” reported by most all media that the United States at this very minute is promoting an off shore oil tax program of 18% to be given to the United Nations on any new fossil fuel discovered and recovered in international water by US oil companies. In addition our current global government administration is also favoring a UN proposal to tax all international transactions.
bluecoat
June 24th, 2012
9:09 am
We need grow Atlanta.A few good educated workers,providers,taxpayers will come,along with a bunch of free loaders.All will have to bring their own potable water.Grow outside of Atlanta if we must grow.No more taxes……..
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 24th, 2012
9:22 am
Turnout is close enough in both that it really doesn’t matter, Inciteful. General elections in Presidential years have more, but primaries aren’t a bad time.
@@
June 24th, 2012
9:57 am
The winner of a Democratic primary for a Kansas legislative seat — contested by an anti-gay, pro-life incumbent, who lives in a church, and the openly gay son of a former Ku Klux Klan member — will face off against a socially liberal, pro-choice, pro-gay marriage Republican.
Huh!!??!!
schnirt
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 24th, 2012
10:02 am
We’re becoming a melting pot, @@!
@@
June 24th, 2012
10:08 am
Tiberius:
Frogs in the kettle.
Road Scholar
June 24th, 2012
10:10 am
Rafe, your comment and info on Oregon and a mileage tax is what I have said on these blogs for years. The problem is when you pay. research is not only taking place in Oregon, but here also, in south Georgia!
Bob: Right on! But I am still waiting on an alternate plan, an alternate list of projects, why the people who don’t support the project list didn’t attend the public meetings to provide input before the list was finalized, why we do not need growth and how will they control it since they already have theirs, and …my favorite…how would home and property values be affected by “decentralizing” congestion. Have ya’ll heard we are in a recession caused by property values?
There is no need for accelerated maintenance? Safety improvements? more efficiencies in operations? Jobs? All of these are a result of approval of the tax and redesign of the bottlenecks defined.
What’s in it for me, Kyle? Figure it out. I repeat, conservatives don’t have a vision beyond the end of their own nose!
@@
June 24th, 2012
10:16 am
Speaking of powerful gestures, Hart shot portions of the video below, which features, among other things, Segal dancing to the Marine Corps band and a wedding proposal between a female-to-male transgendered person (killer suit!) and a biological woman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gaQ-e-It0kM
“And so is it correct to refer to this as a transgendered wedding proposal?” I asked Hart this morning, via Facebook chat, naturally. “2012 is so confusing!” His reply: “I think this is the proposal of our time. It is not so easy to categorize. Liberating.”
Then why refer to yourselves as gay?
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 24th, 2012
10:43 am
“I repeat, conservatives don’t have a vision beyond the end of their own nose!”
And liberals don’t have a brain behind theirs.
obozo
June 24th, 2012
10:52 am
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A Yes Vote!!!!
June 24th, 2012
11:21 am
“Let Rail Pay for Rail”…I say “Let School Pay for School” as well. I pay for lots of things for the common good that i do not use. The beltine will help my “non’commute (i work from home)” because more ppl will be off i75 when i drive thru downtown. The streetcars will affect downtown traffic because tourists will be off the streets and business ppl can get to work. This helps all of us.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 24th, 2012
11:29 am
A Yes Vote, schools are a Constitutionally-mandated function of government in Georgia.
Rail is not.
Next?
Ray
June 24th, 2012
11:42 am
@12:42 PM, Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?…..
You are spot on. Having also read the summaries of all the projects to be covered by the proposed T-splost, I find it ridiculous that the greater Atlanta area is being asked to pay for Cobb County’s grant matching fund for a federal grant to fund an airport control tower. Other county’s all over this country manage to fund their own matching funds for government grants for capital improvements. Cobb could start charging private jet owners landing fees. Let’s face it, they can afford it, and why should their activity be subsidized by other counties, or worse, taxpayers in general?
kw
June 24th, 2012
11:53 am
me! me! me! Gimme! Gimme! Gimme!
Who cares if the MARTA expansion is a waste.
Road Scholar
June 24th, 2012
12:22 pm
Ray: Just let them crash into a neighborhood, right? A better control tower does supply greater safety through the technology improvements it will contain. Do you have any accurate info on the record of usage there? Under the analogy that Cobb could raise money over lading fees, the region can’t charge a 1 cent sales tax to cover transportation improvements?
Tib: “A Yes Vote, schools are a Constitutionally-mandated function of government in Georgia.”
Is that why the state’s portion of education costs have been slashed?
“And liberals don’t have a brain behind theirs.”
Ouch, that hurt! Did it let you feel better about yourself? Mine is a statement of fact; yours is a childish response!
AU Liberal in ATL
June 24th, 2012
12:27 pm
Why are you advising your constituency to vote their interests on T-SPLOST? They sure as hell don’t do that every time they vote for a republican. I think I detect the stench of hypocrisy, or is that just stupidity….again…I meant still.
A Yes Vote!!!!
June 24th, 2012
12:55 pm
Transportation (rails, roads, airports, ports) are all consitutionally mandated by this state. get it straight. Lets assume rail is not consitutionally mandated, there are so many other items that we pay for in this state that don’t benefit EVERYONE but they are still for the common good. Lots of our tourism dollars, Go Fish, our museums,etc. the list goes on and on.
This notion of vote what’s good for just you would work really well for me since i’ve not had to call 911, don’t use grady, seldom use marta, get no projects from TSPLOST except the local projects by my community.
However, I still think this is the right thing to do right now!!!!!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 24th, 2012
1:10 pm
AU Liberal in ATL: Why are you advising your constituency to vote their interests on T-SPLOST? They sure as hell don’t do that every time they vote for a republican.
——————–
You mean they don’t vote YOUR self interest. Quit crying. We Americans know exactly what we’re doing when we vote Republican–trying to shut the cookie jar on you and the rest of the moocher class.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 24th, 2012
1:14 pm
This notion of vote what’s good for just you would work really well for me since i’ve not had to call 911, don’t use grady
—————————-
So you don’t want to pay a little to have 911 and Grady available should you need them? That doesn’t seem very smart. It’s like paying for insurance–pay a little to avoid a huge expense.
MARTA isn’t like that. Paying for MARTA and not using it is of no benefit to most surburbanites.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 24th, 2012
1:28 pm
Wow, Road, your “opinion” is now considered to be a fact, huh?
Sure your last name isn’t Bookman?
And in case you missed it, “slashing funding” isn’t the same as not having to provide funding. But that’s probably the whole “you don’t have a brain behind your nose” thing going on.
Corey
June 24th, 2012
1:37 pm
Bob
June 24th, 2012
1:38 am
I don’t know, Bob. Could the mushrooming of anarchists have something to do with the number of talk radio personalities spewing their philosophies that sprang up and have somehow become the gospel according to Limbaugh et. al.? Bob, you do make a lot sense, however. The sad reality is that most on here simply can’t or fail to grasp what you are saying.
Hillbilly D
June 24th, 2012
2:02 pm
Can a true anarchist belong to any group? Just wondering.
JDW
June 24th, 2012
2:49 pm
@Kyle…”But if it doesn’t help them, why would I expect them to vote for it anyway with the expectation it could improve my commute ”
Nice train of thought there Kyle. I guess growing the region’s economy and making it more livable doesn’t cut it with you. That bit self-centered advice is why we are where we are today…living in a society that is selfish, egotistical, bereft of goodwill and completely lacking in vision.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 24th, 2012
2:56 pm
Corey: Could the mushrooming of anarchists have something to do with the number of talk radio personalities spewing their philosophies
————————
No.
Just another example of a dumb question that can be fully answered in a single word.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 24th, 2012
3:07 pm
That bit self-centered advice is why we are where we are today…living in a society that is selfish, egotistical, bereft of goodwill and completely lacking in vision.
—————–
Well then. How much more of our paychecks should we hand over to government to alleviate this problem?
Of course, most of the folks who vote like JDW don’t pay any income taxes, and have no skin in the game to begin with.
SabrinaClarke
June 24th, 2012
3:24 pm
The passage of this referendum will affect not only where you reside but where you work at as well. Since this is a regional referendum it will impact the region as opposed to just local areas. The passage of something of this magnitude is important to improve upon the old transportation system that we currently have in place.
Michael H. Smith
June 24th, 2012
3:41 pm
JDW
June 24th, 2012
2:49 pm
Wrong brucie! You and your Marxist ilk do not want to grow the capitalist economy in the manner that we conservatives would grow it.
Prime example brucie is Gwinnett County roads verses Atlanta Dee-Kalb County pothole roads. Atlanta-Fulton County water system verses Gwinnett County water system.
There is a marxist liberal way of doing things and not getting them done and then their is the capitalist conservative way doing things and getting them better than done.
Ray
June 24th, 2012
3:46 pm
I don’t care how Cobb raises money to cover their part of the FAA grant match for their proposed new air traffic control tower and project. Most counties and cities accepting FAA grants, “match” from their general funds. Cobb SHOULD do the updates, or rebuild and replace whatever it takes to maintain their county facility; they are REQUIRED to do so by US regs, and their contractual grant assurances with the US Government . But taxpayers in DeKalb, Gwinnett, or say Pickens County, managed to fund and pay for airport improvements projects in their own counties, without asking for a T-SPLOST hand-out, funded by regional money.
I didn’t realize Cobb County residents were so destitute.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 24th, 2012
3:52 pm
I didn’t realize Cobb County residents were so destitute.
————————
They didn’t used to be. The county has changed and has many more Democrat voters now.
Chris Sanchez
June 24th, 2012
3:57 pm
After being lied to about the GA 400 toll, anyone who votes for this tax increase is just like the chiken voting for Col. Sanders! NO NO NO NO NO!!!
How Inciteful Is That!
June 24th, 2012
4:11 pm
We shall see if a majority of Republican voters want TSPLOST or not given that the vote will be during the Republican primary. Democrats will not turn out in large numbers during the Republican primary just to vote for TSPLOST. If the intent had ever been to get the largest possible voter turnout, the vote would have been held during the presidential election in November.
A Realist
June 24th, 2012
4:13 pm
These comments are really a hoot! Lots of belly laughs at the sheer lack of mental capacity displayed by many of the serial posters.
Calling transportation issues Marxist is one of the best laughs of all! Those stinkin’ commies made us build those interstates and airports…
As soon as you ride your automobile across county or city lines, you have ventured into another jurisdiction. You are now, surprise, regional traffic. You are no longer local and no longer on roads controlled or paid for by your local taxes. You are on roads paid for by somebody else.
So you think that the jurisdiction into which you have just traveled should be obligated to pave, widen and maintain streets for you to ride on for free? You’re mooching off their streets, so you really think so?
Forcing me to pay to improve the streets in my jurisdiction, so you can ride on them rings of not quite civil, and a bit totalitarian. So when someone proposes a tax that helps mitigate the expense of people using the roads/transit that other jurisdictions provide, it’s called Marxist? Huh? Isn’t that just paying something for what you are using…. and mooching off others just a bit less?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 24th, 2012
4:14 pm
In Georgia, we don’t call it a “Republican primary”. We call it “the real election”.
How Inciteful Is That!
June 24th, 2012
4:47 pm
In Georgia, we don’t call it a “Republican primary”. We call it “the real election”.
Then you should post as “We” instead of “Lil’ Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward–Again)”
R.Lamar Smith
June 24th, 2012
5:44 pm
We need to quit talking about specific projects and traffic and talk about the fact that in the City of Atlanta we already have 8% sales tax which is already too much. The sales tax in Manhattan is 8.875% and with another penny we will exceed that and we have a lot less money than they do.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
June 24th, 2012
6:47 pm
The White House congratulated Egypt’s president-elect Mohamed Morsi on his victory in that country’s presidential election, calling it a “milestone” in the country’s transition to democracy. Morsi, a member of the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood party, was announced as the winner in the election Sunday morning
Rumor has it the congratulations was accompanied by a hearty allah akbar.
Courtney
June 24th, 2012
6:58 pm
More roads just mean more money to maintain later. We do not need more roads but better planned growth.
Big D
June 24th, 2012
7:32 pm
T Splost is merely a new tax increase. We already pay taxes for everything the new tax claims to we can’t live without. The one question politicians never ask when it comes to their every increaseing need for more and more of our money is, “spend the money on this instead of what?” We need roads, parks, bike paths, schools, water, sewer, police, fire, okay cut something out so we can afford these things. We paid for all of these things before we had T Splost. Do it again or get new politicians that can do it.
Hillbilly D
June 24th, 2012
7:59 pm
Big D
Remember when the sales tax was 3%? True things cost more now but they also have a bigger tax base to draw from. Most places you pay 7%, so that’s more than double what it used to be, any way you look at it.
N Fulton citizen votes NO
June 24th, 2012
8:05 pm
Enough already spent in my tax dollars to fund Atlanta projects that do not reach into my life, (such as MARTA, Grady, Fulton County complex that mostly serves Atlanta, etc). The only real benefit we get out of this would be, and if it happens, (in several future years) the fix to 400/285. I don’t care how the inept/corrupt politicians frame it, this is Federal and Ga State government responsibilities.
VOTE NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Corey
June 24th, 2012
8:44 pm
N Fulton citizen votes NO
June 24th, 2012
8:05 pm
Dude/Madam, pray that you are never involved in a horrible accident on one of Atlanta’s freeways and require level 1 trauma care like the Bluffton baseball team from Ohio needed. Grady may record your comment you posted here and trun you away.
Radio GaGa
June 24th, 2012
8:51 pm
Typical conservative thinking: What is best for me me me. It’s all about me. Who cares about the good of all, the region, the country.
You guys would have been draft dodgers in World War II. Hell, why should I go and fight Germans or Japanese? I might get killed!
Corey
June 24th, 2012
8:52 pm
A Realist
June 24th, 2012
4:13 pm
I echo your sentiments, Realist. As I read some of these comments I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.
Corey
June 24th, 2012
9:00 pm
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin…
June 24th, 2012
6:47 pm
Dude, I guess you would prefer that Mr. Obama would have called him and wished him well in hell? You do realize that Egypt has a peace treaty with our strongest ally in that region of the world, Isreal? I’m sure the newly elected leader of Egypt who was educated in the U.S. understands the consequences of violating that treaty which would be suicidal.
Hillbilly D
June 24th, 2012
9:04 pm
I don’t live in the Atlanta region but I don’t have a problem with state money going to Grady. In my neck of the woods, depending on where trouble befalls you, you’re either life-flighted to Grady of Erlanger in Chattanooga. That’s all the hope you have.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 24th, 2012
9:25 pm
Radio GaGa: Typical conservative thinking: What is best for me me me. It’s all about me. Who cares about the good of all, the region, the country.
———–
50% of folks pay zilch in income tax. How much are they contributing to “the good of all”? You’ve got a lot of nerve blaming the folks who are paying the bills.
@@
June 24th, 2012
9:26 pm
Hillbilly:
I’m with you on Grady. Excellent trauma unit.
Knew an old gentlemen who’d suffered a traumatic head injury (a tree fell on him). He survived until they moved him to another floor. He died due to a fall. It was so sad.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
June 24th, 2012
9:44 pm
Corey- I guess if you do not understand welcoming the Muslim Brotherhood to power there is no hope for you.
Or obozo.
How Inciteful Is That!
June 24th, 2012
10:05 pm
If we just eliminate all personal exemptions and deductions, then there would no longer be people getting away with paying no federal income tax. I’m glad to see that Lil Barry is recommending such an approach.
@@
June 24th, 2012
10:09 pm
Examiner Editorial: Green laws may derail California’s high-speed rail
And in order to guarantee the project goes forward despite public skepticism, Brown proposed to exempt the project from environmental injunctions. Without this exemption, it will probably be impossible to start construction by the Dec. 31, 2012, deadline stipulated by the federal stimulus law. Obama’s Transportation Department reaffirmed this time limit last year when it admitted it had “no administrative authority to change this deadline.”
But the environmentalists’ pressure finally got to Brown. The Los Angeles Times reported last week that he is backing down on the exemption. This all but guarantees that the project is dead. Federal courts routinely issue injunctions to stop projects before they ever begin, and the city of Chowchilla has already filed a lawsuit charging that the California High-Speed Rail Authority failed to conduct a proper Environmental Impact Statement pursuant to the California Environmental Quality Act and the National Environmental Protection Act. Studies show that the average time to complete the NEPA process is 6.1 years
‘Ya gotta love the irony.
Ferd Berfel
June 24th, 2012
10:27 pm
Given their track record, why would anyone voluntarily give more money to those idiots!
JDW
June 24th, 2012
10:59 pm
@Reporter…”Rumor has it the congratulations was accompanied by a hearty allah akbar.”
So I guess that you have appointed yourself arbitrator of Democracy…if you don’t like the way the votes go you just get to change them.
JDW
June 24th, 2012
11:03 pm
@LBB…”JDW don’t pay any income taxes”
My income taxes most likely run more than you make. Unlike you I understand the need to invest to keep the gravy train running.
JDW
June 24th, 2012
11:05 pm
@Michael H. Smith…wipe the side of your mouth…there is a bit of foam trickling down on the right.
aloysius
June 24th, 2012
11:33 pm
When oh when is anyone in Atlanta going to move forward with any MASS transit expansions out to the real suburbs where the overwhelming majority of economic movers and shakers actually live? Buses dont cut it. Just more gas guzzlers with bigger wheel bases. Take over MARTA and run that dang train all the way to Dahlonega right up 400. This isn’t new; people have been sayin’ it for decades now!
Jaquanta
June 24th, 2012
11:35 pm
Ever seen a white MARTA employee? Ever?
@@
June 24th, 2012
11:36 pm
JDW
June 24th, 2012
10:59 pm
SNIPE
JDW
June 24th, 2012
11:03 pm
SNIPE
JDW
June 24th, 2012
11:05 pm
SNIPE
schnirt
Dusty
June 24th, 2012
11:46 pm
Since this country, every state, every county and most cities and town have a severe shortage of money and a surplus of debt, we need to get down to the nitty gritty. Every project demanding thousands or millions should be checked as to whether it is essential or not. I mean really ESSENTIAL.
Parks, bikeways, shrubbery, swimming pools, large athletic fields,trolly cars …..NO!
Highway and Bridge REPAIR & maintenance….YES
MARTA repair & maintenace …..YES
GRADY Hospital……..YES…but no new additions
NEW highways, bridges, Marta lines, beltlines……..NO
NEW courthouses, jails, state parks, visitor centers……….NO
New museums, memorials, monuments, university enlargements …….NO
T-SPLOST has gone SPLAT. Let us vote on separate items with the cost included with each one. Not a huge pig-in-a-poke like T-SPLOST. Citizens know how to be thrifty if it effacts their pocketbooks. So let us know exactly the extent of each project and the cost and the big question:CAN WE AFFORD IT or Can we pay for it?
If you want a museum, let CocaCola build it. If you want a recreation park, let Six Flags build it. If you want a new stadium, let the team owners pay for it. Just keep your hands off my money until I know your plans exactly. When we can meet a budget, we will talk again.
Hillbilly D
June 24th, 2012
11:46 pm
Take over MARTA and run that dang train all the way to Dahlonega right up 400.
What if the people there don’t want it?
native
June 24th, 2012
11:48 pm
@ i report
The islamist wasn’t my choice either, but he seems to be the choice of the Egyptians and also the least poor choice. At least the Muburrak tainted friend of the generals was denied at least for now.
Aloysius
June 25th, 2012
1:31 am
Believe me. They want it. Why wouldn’t anyone want it? It’s as essential as Grady or St. Joseph’s; you HAVE to have a way for folks to move around that is a) good for the environment b) an inexpensive way for folks to get to anywhere on the line to spend their money c) attract new business(the days of the huge parking lot are numbered) d) Is economical if for no other reason than it allows the 3 prior points to be facts. e) Lower stress for everyone who uses the system because they don’t have to drive or deal with morons who really don’t want it because a) they have the conceptualization skills of a brick b) they just plain hate we have a black president(who will win again); have folks who support gay marriage c) basically, given their “right out there” type demeanor don’t give a rodent’s behind about anyone but themselves at the end of the day.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
June 25th, 2012
2:28 am
Aloysius
June 25th, 2012
1:31 am
People in Dahlonega don’t want or need MARTA and for good reason as it would be highly-impractical to run a MARTA heavy rail line or any kind of rail line much farther north than it already runs to North Springs Station, much less all the way up 400 to Dahlonega which, in addition to being highly-impractical and cost-prohibitive, would also be politically-impossible.
There is no question that their needs to be expanded transportation options along the Georgia 400 North Corridor, but a solution that might be a tad bit more practical, both financially and politically, though not as sexy, would be to run expanded targeted express bus service up the Georgia 400 North Corridor up to Dahlonega.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 25th, 2012
7:30 am
JDW: My income taxes most likely run more than you make. Unlike you I understand the need to invest to keep the gravy train running.
———
I’m sure we’re all very impressed.
Did you send it in yet? Your investment check, I mean? And how long do you expect it will take to recoup your “investment”?
Get real. What you want is for others to find your libtarded wet dream of subsidized transit for the moocher class.
JDW
June 25th, 2012
7:31 am
@@@…you got a point or just like to state the obvious?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 25th, 2012
7:31 am
“fund”, not “find”.
JDW
June 25th, 2012
7:35 am
@LBB…”What you want is for others to find your libtarded wet dream of subsidized transit for the moocher class”
Actually what I want is for short sighted, self centered, selfish, petty individuals such as yourself to wake up and smell the coffee. You are not the only person on the planet and the world does not revolve around you.
iggy
June 25th, 2012
8:00 am
If the big dollars for “entitlements”, Marta, downtown atlanta trolley projects and other uselessness werent included I may be more inclined to vote Yes. However and at this time I must vote Against this transportation junkit.
@@
June 25th, 2012
8:16 am
@@@…you got a point or just like to state the obvious?
Other than the one atop yo’ head?
Nope!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 25th, 2012
8:59 am
JDW: You are not the only person on the planet and the world does not revolve around you.
———
No, but I am one of the 50% who pays the bills for the folks Democrats think the world revolves around–the moochers/Obozo voters who contribute nothing but crime, sloth, and new mouths to feed.
I will have my say in July and November, as will other decent Americans (and some Democrats).
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 25th, 2012
9:06 am
In addition to having our say come election time, I suspect Americans (and some Democrats) will have our WAY, much to the disappointment of libtards, moochers, and other big government Obozobots.
real john
June 25th, 2012
9:09 am
Ummmm…most of you libs do understand that a REPUBLICAN governor and many in the State Republican House are the one pushing the T-SPLOSTS tax don’t you??
I guess since its an article Kyle wrote, most of the usual libs,,,Road Scholar, Deb in Athens, getalife, etc…just automatically disagree with it. I don’t even think most of them even read the article.
I don’t even think most of you even understand Kyle’s article. Basically he is saying that why would someone in Douglas county vote for a tax that may or may not even help him/her. He is right. Why should someone who lives in-town get to dictate that someone else should pay for a tax that benefits them??
I’m still undecided, but I’m probably going to vote for the tax. However, GA and the Fed. Government better start figuring out how to live within their means…all of these extra little sales taxes, user taxes, title fees, ad volrem, etc… are really starting to add up.
I mean everyone wants to talk about how jobs and people won’t move to Atlanta or GA if we don’t pass this tax…Well, if we don’t watch out, GA isn’t going to be the “low cost” place to live anyone. When you add our pretty high state income tax, crazy water bills in Atlanta, T-Splosts for education and transit, pretty high sales taxes, and now Dekalb is raising property taxes again…All of a sudden, GA isn’t looking that “low costs” to live in
Kyle Wingfield
June 25th, 2012
9:22 am
real john @ 9:09: Your third paragraph has it half right. The other half, which hardly anyone seemed to grasp in their rush to declare my position all about “me me me!”, is that this is the best way — maybe the only way — for us to know if the list is any good or not.
Perhaps I should have put it this way: Any given person in metro Atlanta has limited knowledge about traffic conditions outside the routes he commonly drives. He might have a bit of experience with a few others, but the idea that he can objectively judge whether the plan as a whole is “good for the region” is baloney. He knows what he knows, and no more. This is true no matter where he lives.
So, he should vote according to the judgment he can make about the plan — i.e., what it would mean for the places he drives. Not because he, or I, or the conservative movement writ large, is selfish. But because trying to judge the plan based on what it would do in places with which he is unfamiliar is a fool’s errand. The people in those places, who know the local traffic conditions better, will make those judgments. Then, and only then, we will know whether the plan was good or needs reworking.
JDW
June 25th, 2012
9:39 am
@LBB…”No, but I am one of the 50% who pays the bills for the folks Democrats ”
HORSE HOOEY…you are claiming income tax pays all the bills? Income tax accounts for about 41% of US tax revenue…those folks you like to call “moochers” are paying payroll taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, car taxes and a host of others every day. You, should you actually pay income taxes, are one of the fortunate that is making a living off the benefits of this country and should be happy to pay your fair share to see those benefits continue.
JDW
June 25th, 2012
9:43 am
@real john…”most of you libs do understand that a REPUBLICAN governor and many in the State Republican House are the one pushing the T-SPLOSTS tax don’t you??”
Yep the REPUBLICAN governor and legislature have abdicated their responsibilities to create and fund a proper transportation plan. Now we have a choice between this and nothing.
Since it is inconceivable that the REPUBLICAN governor and legislature will ACTUALLY DO THIER JOB any time in the near future this is our only choice to address one of the issues that has choked the growth of the region on their watch.
JDW
June 25th, 2012
9:48 am
@Kyle…”The other half, which hardly anyone seemed to grasp in their rush to declare my position all about “me me me!”, is that this is the best way — maybe the only way — for us to know if the list is any good or not.”
I didn’t have any problem grasping it, I simply think that the me, me, me approach is a bad way to make a decision that affects not only the region but the state. You don’t have to understand every nuance of every project to grasp the fact that our transportation infrastructure is crumbling and affecting the economic health of the entire region.
Given as I stated earlier, that the Republican leadership of the state has given no alternatives a no vote simply ensures that we will continue to fall behind.
jj
June 25th, 2012
9:48 am
By their own admission there is over $1bb being pissed out the window on “local projects” at the discretion of each county. Now add the bike lanes, sidewalks and green initiatives and you have tossed another billion or two out the window.
100% to real mass transit and you have my vote
Up 75 to Town Center
Up 400 to Windward
Out 20 to Conyers
North on 85 to 316
South on 85 to Peachtree City
South on 75 to Griffin
West on 20 to Douglasville.
You lay this plan out and I bet it would pass. The current plan as proposed is doomed, to much pork.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 25th, 2012
10:35 am
JDW@9:48
This is what separates us, you admit that you are not qualified to decide if projects in areas you are not familiar with, will help, so you trust these “professionals” to decide for you. These same “professionals”, who designed this fiasco of a transportation system. You take the approach that Libs always take, just give them some more money, something will get better.
Conservatives are much more cynical and pragmatic, show us some evidence that this work and the money is well spent. So far, it looks like a big government boondoggle and payday for the road construction firms.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
June 25th, 2012
10:49 am
JDW
You don’t have to understand every nuance of every project to grasp the fact that our transportation infrastructure is crumbling and affecting the economic health of the entire region.
So, typical liberal response, you don’t have to understand, you don’t have to be sure it will work, you personally don’t have to benefit, but we have to do something. Trust government and give them some money so they can work.
Conservatives should disregard the facts, that many times we have done this and they did not keep their word, spent the money to benefit their friends, and did not fix the problem, and assume this time it will work. We should also disregard our financial condition and assume we can continue to pay the ever increasing taxes, we impose on ourselves.
A Yes Vote!!!!
June 25th, 2012
11:10 am
The trolley and the beltline will go on without the T-SPLOST for those of you who didn’t know that. There will be more money but those projects are already underway. Educate yourself and not listen to political bs
Retired
June 25th, 2012
11:57 am
Those pushing for T-SPLOST / TIA have nothing but a project name to show us. No maps no descriptions of what the project will do and where it will do it.
Is that good enough for us to vote for more taxes?
Vote NO!
bu2
June 25th, 2012
12:10 pm
The beltline still won’t get built until they find the money. Just because they think they will get it out of the taxing districts doesn’t guarantee it happens and it certainly doesn’t guarantee this model happens. Major new real estate development isn’t going to happen soon in Atlanta whether the tax passes or not and that is a critical part of their financing. They may actually figure out that the parks and trails are the important part of the beltline plan, not a mutli-billion dollar toy train.
And the streetcar will only last as long as Atlanta is willing to subsidize it. MARTA can’t.
Hillbilly D
June 25th, 2012
1:02 pm
Believe me. They want it.
You must not know many folks there.
Radio GaGa
June 25th, 2012
7:22 pm
Earth to Very Little Larry:
This has nothing to do with income taxes. We’re talking about a proposed sales tax, which is paid by everyone who buys anything. It’s really pretty easy for adults to understand.
Connie
June 25th, 2012
8:18 pm
NO! NO! NO! Do not vote for anything to give MARTA a penny. MARTA’s Board of Directors need an ‘Extreme Makeover’. MARTA is a large factor in the traffic congestion equation.MARTA fairs have doubled and tripled for riders transferring from bus to train or bus. Did MARTA annouce the discontinuation of continuous travel? A daily commute can cost as much as $16.50,compared to $5.00.The magic ‘BREEZE CARD’ is a joke. Tag on .50 to purchase a ‘card’ or better still through elderly riders off the bus because they have cash but don’t have a card. Residents of Fulton and DeKalb counties have paid MARTA taxes for years and not have access to the services. MARTA continues to reduce services and raise fares. As, for the ‘planned’ improvements, remember I-85 HOT LANE, “If you could drive in the HOV lane alone, would you be willing to pay for it?”. There’s nothing in the plan for my lanes of travel or my community. Morning commute – MARTA 1 hour 55 minutes, cost $5.50/by car 1 hour 15 minutes cost $5.00. Evening commute – MARTA 3 hours 10 minutes/car 1 hour 30 minutes.
Randy Ward
June 26th, 2012
9:49 am
As I have read the strategy and plans around T-SPLOST along with the improvements to the area that are expected it appears to be a really good approach to address many issues, both short term and long term. So the two questions I posed to myself based on available information are:
1) Is it a good idea and do you anticipate a positive impact on the area? My answer: Yes
2) Will you vote yes for T-SPLOST? My answer: NOT A CHANCE
This proposal is really Déjà vu for me harkening back to the discussions on the extension of GA 400. The proposals were vetted extensively with very mixed feedback on public support with the addition of a toll to finance the project. I extended my support only when assurances were made, laws were revised, and systems enacted that would require the dissolution of the toll when all the bonds were paid in full as well as assuring funds would only be used for bond payments. It made very good sense to me that the individuals using the road would pay for the construction over time. So with the actions and promises of the politicians and community leaders my vote was cast along with a very high percentage of the populace to support the project. After paying thousands of my hard earned dollars in non-deductable tax/tolls over the years I find out GA 400 toll money would be diverted to pay for the purchase and development of Atlantic Station. The laughable reasoning was individuals using GA 400 would be traveling to Atlantic Station; therefore these people should fund the project. From there the politicians struck the blow that will resonate in me for the rest of my life. After the GA 400 bonds were retired the local politicians decided that revenue stream was far too lucrative to let go. Next the assurances, promises, and laws were thrown out in order to keep that revenue stream alive to provide money to use at the whim of our leaders. MY MONEY! I know the ten year transportation plan is a good idea. I know the greater Atlanta area will benefit from the improvements. I know the special tax will only be collected for ten years then forever suspended. I know all this but it is MY VOTE. Fool me once…..
JDW
June 26th, 2012
9:58 am
@ragnar…”So, typical liberal response, you don’t have to understand, you don’t have to be sure it will work, you personally don’t have to benefit, but we have to do something. Trust government and give them some money so they can work.”
Rather than running around like Chicken Little screaming they are stealing our taxes, they are wasting our taxes, don’t give them any money some folks can make a reasoned judgment that improving our transportation infrastructure is a good thing. Why check out the first thing on the Chamber of Commerce’s growth plan.
http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/business-boosters-admit-atlanta-1464386.html
The other point that you miss entirely is there is no one else to act. Private enterprise cannot improve transportation it must be government. If you don’t like the job they are doing vote them out (God please vote this bunch out).
On the other hand, acting like an ostrich and sticking one’s head in the sand by just doing nothing accomplishes exactly that…nothing…which is what we have had in this state for the last 10 years and you can see where that has gotten us.