On T-SPLOST, vote your interests — not what you think others’ are
In recent weeks, a few friends have asked me for advice: How should they vote in July’s T-SPLOST referendum?
I asked them where they do most of their driving. Then I rattled off the nearby projects I could remember — and advised them to check the official map in case I had forgotten others. But one guy replied that he wanted to know what’s best for the region, not just himself.
What’s best for the region, I told him, is for everyone to decide what’s best for themselves, and vote accordingly.
Advocates of the 10-year, $7.2 billion sales tax say many of our transportation problems are regional in nature. One of their favorite illustrations is that the project most desired by elected officials in Douglas County was the interchange of I-285 and I-20 west, which sits in Fulton.
They’re right about the regional nature of many of our problems. And it might well be true that the best way to improve commutes for the people of Douglas County is to spend money on projects elsewhere.
But I’ve come to the conclusion that voting for T-SPLOST based on what I think are the interests of people in Douglas, or Cherokee, or Gwinnett, or anywhere else I don’t travel often, is foolish.
If the list includes projects that will ease bottlenecks and free up travelers from Cherokee to their jobs elsewhere in the region, then by all means those people should vote for it. The same goes for everyone else in every other county.
But if it doesn’t help them, why would I expect them to vote for it anyway with the expectation it could improve my commute — even if they don’t know much about the routes I drive and the traffic I face?
While $7.2 billion represents but a down payment toward the tens of billions in new infrastructure local transportation experts say metro Atlanta needs, it is still a large chunk of money. Not everyone in our 10-county region should expect to see all their problems disappear — not by a long shot. But if the list is as good for the whole region as advertised, a majority of voters ought to believe they’ll see enough progress to make it worthwhile.
The reverse is also true. If a majority of voters look at the list and shake their heads, it’s hard to argue the plan is really the best we could do.
It’s not as if the list reflects an obvious effort by local leaders to take a few important, congested corridors and fix them above all else. That approach might have justified spending a disproportionate amount of money in some places. Instead, the project list looks much more like a grab bag in which this county got its top 10 projects, that county got 12 it wanted, and so on.
Again: If that was the right method, it ought to show up in the vote totals.
Some people thinking regionally fret about the message a rejection of T-SPLOST would send to businesses thinking of moving or expanding here. I’d be much more worried about that message if most tax opponents were questioning the need to do anything in the first place.
Instead, the disagreements are largely about what to do and how to pay for it. Those can be resolved if the tax is axed.
Incidentally, this is one of the main ways government spending has grown so large, with so many complaints about how little we get for it. It does no good to vote more spending on education or anti-poverty programs, without recognizing education results have declined and poverty levels stayed flat.
It makes no more sense to vote for a tax that won’t ease the congestion you know, in the hopes it might help the congestion you don’t.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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244 comments Add your comment
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 23rd, 2012
11:14 pm
And thanks for the book recommendation.
But now, my bed calls to me after a long day. Good night, Hillbilly D.
Bob
June 24th, 2012
1:38 am
The comments here are obnoxious — the one thing liberals and conservatives can agree on with respect to the role of government is that it should build the bloody roads, and yet you’ve got some people who actually argue that we shouldn’t do that. There’s a word for such people: Anarchists. And if you’re an anarchist, hey, there’s a proud tradition of you guys — and although your societies quickly fall to ruins, with everyone ending up poor or dead, at least you’re able to say that you’ve fought against the evil of having to live in a society with other people…which you all hate for some reason.
(You know, I’ve often wondered why we have so many of you anarchists lately. I think, honestly, that we as a people have become so stupid that we can no longer govern ourselves — but rather than trying, this lot just suggests that we burn down everything. Because nothing fixes a problem better than being lazy and angry…)
But that’s not what I’m here to say. What I’m here to say is that Kyle’s right, and it’s not a conservative or liberal proposition he’s proposing. We’re trying to decide how to allocate funds? Alright. Presumably we want to allocate them to the projects that will do the most good for the most people. So how do we find that out? We let people tell us what they need. How? By voting. But that only works if you tell the government what YOU need. If you tell it what you think someone else needs…the whole thing doesn’t work. We need millions of data points to figure out what people need — your votes are those data points, and the more accurate they are the better. So, yes, vote your needs — and your neighbor will vote his, and so on. And then we’ll know what to do. Nothing controversial about that.
Cal
June 24th, 2012
7:30 am
What’s best for the region, I told him, is for everyone to decide what’s best for themselves, and vote accordingly.
Why has Wingfield received criticism for his statement when dems support it? Latinos, gays, women, blacks, all vote for what best serves them. We are a divided nation thanks to the dems promotion of special interests groups.
Single-issue voters don’t have America’s best interest at heart. It’s all about what’s in it for them.
How Inciteful Is That!
June 24th, 2012
7:56 am
And July was picked as the best time to find out what the people that turn out to vote actually want from a list of jobs that someone put together using some form of input from someone. Uh huh. Right. Yep. No doubt about it.
Eric
June 24th, 2012
8:06 am
There’s still no proof that increasing the tax will reduce congestion, which is the results of overdevelopment. It is overdevelopment under pro-business policies that got us into this mess. Since this is not being addressed by policy makers, I won’t vote for the tax. The tax is simply a band aid on a leaking ship. I won’t be fooled this time around. VOTE NO.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 24th, 2012
8:21 am
“And July was picked as the best time to find out what the people that turn out to vote actually want from a list of jobs that someone put together using some form of input from someone.”
Actually, Inciteful, July is about as good as November when it comes to voter participation. There are usually plenty of hotly contested local races that bring out lots of voters in the primary. I would have preferred November, but July is fine with me as well.
How Inciteful Is That!
June 24th, 2012
8:28 am
I believe having the issue on the November ballot would draw the biggest number of voters, Tiberius, given that it is also a presidential election but I will concede to any data you provide that demonstrates otherwise. As I recall, there was even quite a bit of discussion earlier in the year regarding the selection of a July time slot as opposed to November.
The Social Diva
June 24th, 2012
8:45 am
Sorry, if they could come up with real ideas that are within a reasonable budget maybe I could get onboard. As it stands, it more of the wasteful spending of more bike paths and parks. Enough! We cannot afford that and certainly not to the tune of billions. Otherwise it’s more rail (ergo Marta) and that has proven to be painfully expensive and always in the red. Neither are worth the money spent. But the real reality is that they have NO concrete plan in place and just want the money to spend as they wish. More government waste!
Big D
June 24th, 2012
8:52 am
Steve Dunbar
June 23rd, 2012
11:28 am
I will not do your research for you. Apparently you are either comprehension impaired or you refuse to see that with which you disagree. It has been “commonly” reported by most all media that the United States at this very minute is promoting an off shore oil tax program of 18% to be given to the United Nations on any new fossil fuel discovered and recovered in international water by US oil companies. In addition our current global government administration is also favoring a UN proposal to tax all international transactions.
bluecoat
June 24th, 2012
9:09 am
We need grow Atlanta.A few good educated workers,providers,taxpayers will come,along with a bunch of free loaders.All will have to bring their own potable water.Grow outside of Atlanta if we must grow.No more taxes……..
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 24th, 2012
9:22 am
Turnout is close enough in both that it really doesn’t matter, Inciteful. General elections in Presidential years have more, but primaries aren’t a bad time.
@@
June 24th, 2012
9:57 am
The winner of a Democratic primary for a Kansas legislative seat — contested by an anti-gay, pro-life incumbent, who lives in a church, and the openly gay son of a former Ku Klux Klan member — will face off against a socially liberal, pro-choice, pro-gay marriage Republican.
Huh!!??!!
schnirt
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 24th, 2012
10:02 am
We’re becoming a melting pot, @@!
@@
June 24th, 2012
10:08 am
Tiberius:
Frogs in the kettle.
Road Scholar
June 24th, 2012
10:10 am
Rafe, your comment and info on Oregon and a mileage tax is what I have said on these blogs for years. The problem is when you pay. research is not only taking place in Oregon, but here also, in south Georgia!
Bob: Right on! But I am still waiting on an alternate plan, an alternate list of projects, why the people who don’t support the project list didn’t attend the public meetings to provide input before the list was finalized, why we do not need growth and how will they control it since they already have theirs, and …my favorite…how would home and property values be affected by “decentralizing” congestion. Have ya’ll heard we are in a recession caused by property values?
There is no need for accelerated maintenance? Safety improvements? more efficiencies in operations? Jobs? All of these are a result of approval of the tax and redesign of the bottlenecks defined.
What’s in it for me, Kyle? Figure it out. I repeat, conservatives don’t have a vision beyond the end of their own nose!
@@
June 24th, 2012
10:16 am
Speaking of powerful gestures, Hart shot portions of the video below, which features, among other things, Segal dancing to the Marine Corps band and a wedding proposal between a female-to-male transgendered person (killer suit!) and a biological woman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gaQ-e-It0kM
“And so is it correct to refer to this as a transgendered wedding proposal?” I asked Hart this morning, via Facebook chat, naturally. “2012 is so confusing!” His reply: “I think this is the proposal of our time. It is not so easy to categorize. Liberating.”
Then why refer to yourselves as gay?
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 24th, 2012
10:43 am
“I repeat, conservatives don’t have a vision beyond the end of their own nose!”
And liberals don’t have a brain behind theirs.
obozo
June 24th, 2012
10:52 am
Can’t find a girlfriend that you can impress your friends with? Having trouble getting a date? Well, we here at Obama 2012 are just the people to help you with your little issue. For just a modest donation to my reelection campaign, we will create a hottie that you can parade around campus, in your autobiography or in your letters home to your parents. If you’ve got the cash, we’ve got the composite. Wanna your babe to have big boobs? No problem, just tell us the desired bra size. Wanna total bimbo that you and your friends can playfully make fun of? Not an issue, the dummycrat party is full of them. And remember, this chick will come with benefits, like me getting another shot at the White House. So write that check today, wipe all the gay porn off your harddrive and get ready for (insert name here) to come and rock your world!
A Yes Vote!!!!
June 24th, 2012
11:21 am
“Let Rail Pay for Rail”…I say “Let School Pay for School” as well. I pay for lots of things for the common good that i do not use. The beltine will help my “non’commute (i work from home)” because more ppl will be off i75 when i drive thru downtown. The streetcars will affect downtown traffic because tourists will be off the streets and business ppl can get to work. This helps all of us.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 24th, 2012
11:29 am
A Yes Vote, schools are a Constitutionally-mandated function of government in Georgia.
Rail is not.
Next?
Ray
June 24th, 2012
11:42 am
@12:42 PM, Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?…..
You are spot on. Having also read the summaries of all the projects to be covered by the proposed T-splost, I find it ridiculous that the greater Atlanta area is being asked to pay for Cobb County’s grant matching fund for a federal grant to fund an airport control tower. Other county’s all over this country manage to fund their own matching funds for government grants for capital improvements. Cobb could start charging private jet owners landing fees. Let’s face it, they can afford it, and why should their activity be subsidized by other counties, or worse, taxpayers in general?
kw
June 24th, 2012
11:53 am
me! me! me! Gimme! Gimme! Gimme!
Who cares if the MARTA expansion is a waste.
Road Scholar
June 24th, 2012
12:22 pm
Ray: Just let them crash into a neighborhood, right? A better control tower does supply greater safety through the technology improvements it will contain. Do you have any accurate info on the record of usage there? Under the analogy that Cobb could raise money over lading fees, the region can’t charge a 1 cent sales tax to cover transportation improvements?
Tib: “A Yes Vote, schools are a Constitutionally-mandated function of government in Georgia.”
Is that why the state’s portion of education costs have been slashed?
“And liberals don’t have a brain behind theirs.”
Ouch, that hurt! Did it let you feel better about yourself? Mine is a statement of fact; yours is a childish response!
AU Liberal in ATL
June 24th, 2012
12:27 pm
Why are you advising your constituency to vote their interests on T-SPLOST? They sure as hell don’t do that every time they vote for a republican. I think I detect the stench of hypocrisy, or is that just stupidity….again…I meant still.
A Yes Vote!!!!
June 24th, 2012
12:55 pm
Transportation (rails, roads, airports, ports) are all consitutionally mandated by this state. get it straight. Lets assume rail is not consitutionally mandated, there are so many other items that we pay for in this state that don’t benefit EVERYONE but they are still for the common good. Lots of our tourism dollars, Go Fish, our museums,etc. the list goes on and on.
This notion of vote what’s good for just you would work really well for me since i’ve not had to call 911, don’t use grady, seldom use marta, get no projects from TSPLOST except the local projects by my community.
However, I still think this is the right thing to do right now!!!!!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 24th, 2012
1:10 pm
AU Liberal in ATL: Why are you advising your constituency to vote their interests on T-SPLOST? They sure as hell don’t do that every time they vote for a republican.
——————–
You mean they don’t vote YOUR self interest. Quit crying. We Americans know exactly what we’re doing when we vote Republican–trying to shut the cookie jar on you and the rest of the moocher class.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 24th, 2012
1:14 pm
This notion of vote what’s good for just you would work really well for me since i’ve not had to call 911, don’t use grady
—————————-
So you don’t want to pay a little to have 911 and Grady available should you need them? That doesn’t seem very smart. It’s like paying for insurance–pay a little to avoid a huge expense.
MARTA isn’t like that. Paying for MARTA and not using it is of no benefit to most surburbanites.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 24th, 2012
1:28 pm
Wow, Road, your “opinion” is now considered to be a fact, huh?
Sure your last name isn’t Bookman?
And in case you missed it, “slashing funding” isn’t the same as not having to provide funding. But that’s probably the whole “you don’t have a brain behind your nose” thing going on.
Corey
June 24th, 2012
1:37 pm
Bob
June 24th, 2012
1:38 am
I don’t know, Bob. Could the mushrooming of anarchists have something to do with the number of talk radio personalities spewing their philosophies that sprang up and have somehow become the gospel according to Limbaugh et. al.? Bob, you do make a lot sense, however. The sad reality is that most on here simply can’t or fail to grasp what you are saying.
Hillbilly D
June 24th, 2012
2:02 pm
Can a true anarchist belong to any group? Just wondering.
JDW
June 24th, 2012
2:49 pm
@Kyle…”But if it doesn’t help them, why would I expect them to vote for it anyway with the expectation it could improve my commute ”
Nice train of thought there Kyle. I guess growing the region’s economy and making it more livable doesn’t cut it with you. That bit self-centered advice is why we are where we are today…living in a society that is selfish, egotistical, bereft of goodwill and completely lacking in vision.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 24th, 2012
2:56 pm
Corey: Could the mushrooming of anarchists have something to do with the number of talk radio personalities spewing their philosophies
————————
No.
Just another example of a dumb question that can be fully answered in a single word.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 24th, 2012
3:07 pm
That bit self-centered advice is why we are where we are today…living in a society that is selfish, egotistical, bereft of goodwill and completely lacking in vision.
—————–
Well then. How much more of our paychecks should we hand over to government to alleviate this problem?
Of course, most of the folks who vote like JDW don’t pay any income taxes, and have no skin in the game to begin with.
SabrinaClarke
June 24th, 2012
3:24 pm
The passage of this referendum will affect not only where you reside but where you work at as well. Since this is a regional referendum it will impact the region as opposed to just local areas. The passage of something of this magnitude is important to improve upon the old transportation system that we currently have in place.
Michael H. Smith
June 24th, 2012
3:41 pm
JDW
June 24th, 2012
2:49 pm
Wrong brucie! You and your Marxist ilk do not want to grow the capitalist economy in the manner that we conservatives would grow it.
Prime example brucie is Gwinnett County roads verses Atlanta Dee-Kalb County pothole roads. Atlanta-Fulton County water system verses Gwinnett County water system.
There is a marxist liberal way of doing things and not getting them done and then their is the capitalist conservative way doing things and getting them better than done.
Ray
June 24th, 2012
3:46 pm
I don’t care how Cobb raises money to cover their part of the FAA grant match for their proposed new air traffic control tower and project. Most counties and cities accepting FAA grants, “match” from their general funds. Cobb SHOULD do the updates, or rebuild and replace whatever it takes to maintain their county facility; they are REQUIRED to do so by US regs, and their contractual grant assurances with the US Government . But taxpayers in DeKalb, Gwinnett, or say Pickens County, managed to fund and pay for airport improvements projects in their own counties, without asking for a T-SPLOST hand-out, funded by regional money.
I didn’t realize Cobb County residents were so destitute.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 24th, 2012
3:52 pm
I didn’t realize Cobb County residents were so destitute.
————————
They didn’t used to be. The county has changed and has many more Democrat voters now.
Chris Sanchez
June 24th, 2012
3:57 pm
After being lied to about the GA 400 toll, anyone who votes for this tax increase is just like the chiken voting for Col. Sanders! NO NO NO NO NO!!!
How Inciteful Is That!
June 24th, 2012
4:11 pm
We shall see if a majority of Republican voters want TSPLOST or not given that the vote will be during the Republican primary. Democrats will not turn out in large numbers during the Republican primary just to vote for TSPLOST. If the intent had ever been to get the largest possible voter turnout, the vote would have been held during the presidential election in November.
A Realist
June 24th, 2012
4:13 pm
These comments are really a hoot! Lots of belly laughs at the sheer lack of mental capacity displayed by many of the serial posters.
Calling transportation issues Marxist is one of the best laughs of all! Those stinkin’ commies made us build those interstates and airports…
As soon as you ride your automobile across county or city lines, you have ventured into another jurisdiction. You are now, surprise, regional traffic. You are no longer local and no longer on roads controlled or paid for by your local taxes. You are on roads paid for by somebody else.
So you think that the jurisdiction into which you have just traveled should be obligated to pave, widen and maintain streets for you to ride on for free? You’re mooching off their streets, so you really think so?
Forcing me to pay to improve the streets in my jurisdiction, so you can ride on them rings of not quite civil, and a bit totalitarian. So when someone proposes a tax that helps mitigate the expense of people using the roads/transit that other jurisdictions provide, it’s called Marxist? Huh? Isn’t that just paying something for what you are using…. and mooching off others just a bit less?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward--Again)
June 24th, 2012
4:14 pm
In Georgia, we don’t call it a “Republican primary”. We call it “the real election”.
How Inciteful Is That!
June 24th, 2012
4:47 pm
In Georgia, we don’t call it a “Republican primary”. We call it “the real election”.
Then you should post as “We” instead of “Lil’ Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward–Again)”
R.Lamar Smith
June 24th, 2012
5:44 pm
We need to quit talking about specific projects and traffic and talk about the fact that in the City of Atlanta we already have 8% sales tax which is already too much. The sales tax in Manhattan is 8.875% and with another penny we will exceed that and we have a lot less money than they do.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
June 24th, 2012
6:47 pm
The White House congratulated Egypt’s president-elect Mohamed Morsi on his victory in that country’s presidential election, calling it a “milestone” in the country’s transition to democracy. Morsi, a member of the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood party, was announced as the winner in the election Sunday morning
Rumor has it the congratulations was accompanied by a hearty allah akbar.
Courtney
June 24th, 2012
6:58 pm
More roads just mean more money to maintain later. We do not need more roads but better planned growth.
Big D
June 24th, 2012
7:32 pm
T Splost is merely a new tax increase. We already pay taxes for everything the new tax claims to we can’t live without. The one question politicians never ask when it comes to their every increaseing need for more and more of our money is, “spend the money on this instead of what?” We need roads, parks, bike paths, schools, water, sewer, police, fire, okay cut something out so we can afford these things. We paid for all of these things before we had T Splost. Do it again or get new politicians that can do it.
Hillbilly D
June 24th, 2012
7:59 pm
Big D
Remember when the sales tax was 3%? True things cost more now but they also have a bigger tax base to draw from. Most places you pay 7%, so that’s more than double what it used to be, any way you look at it.
N Fulton citizen votes NO
June 24th, 2012
8:05 pm
Enough already spent in my tax dollars to fund Atlanta projects that do not reach into my life, (such as MARTA, Grady, Fulton County complex that mostly serves Atlanta, etc). The only real benefit we get out of this would be, and if it happens, (in several future years) the fix to 400/285. I don’t care how the inept/corrupt politicians frame it, this is Federal and Ga State government responsibilities.
VOTE NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Corey
June 24th, 2012
8:44 pm
N Fulton citizen votes NO
June 24th, 2012
8:05 pm
Dude/Madam, pray that you are never involved in a horrible accident on one of Atlanta’s freeways and require level 1 trauma care like the Bluffton baseball team from Ohio needed. Grady may record your comment you posted here and trun you away.
Radio GaGa
June 24th, 2012
8:51 pm
Typical conservative thinking: What is best for me me me. It’s all about me. Who cares about the good of all, the region, the country.
You guys would have been draft dodgers in World War II. Hell, why should I go and fight Germans or Japanese? I might get killed!