Obama blocks Fast and Furious documents from House investigation

Holder and his department have blood on their hands.

Obama is now officially involved in the cover-up.

At least Nixon’s gang didn’t actually kill anyone.

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Oops… here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/97675513/062011-Letter

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Why is this not on the front page of AJC.com? I would expect that AJC would make this a prominent story on their website and front page news tomorrow. This is why conservatives call newspapers like this the “mainstream media”…

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Can’t rip Obama if you supported W for doing the same thing. Hiding behind Executive Privilege is wrong.

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I thought Obama had never seen the documents….

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Another republican distraction.

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The market’s up and gas is down, except in GA. Who do we blame for that? ( I said except in GA because it’s $3.04 in SC and $3.09 in AL and still $3.20 here)

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What’s the problem. Haven’t other Presidents done this in the past?

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Not surprised to see that the murder of federal agents is no big deal to Obama’s liberal base.

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King of Kings, OBAMA!

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It’s not that “executive privilege” is inherently wrong – it is not. There are surely policy debates that ought to be privileged, to allow people to throw around ideas for exploration, and consideration of political implications within those debates is both appropriate and still has the appearance of impropriety. Here, however, the actions of the department itself are what appear to be wrong, illegal, and the basis for the decision to take those actions are undoubtedly in the public interest. The assertion of “executive privilege” here is arguably worse than in Watergate, where the assertion was to preserve the executive’s “post crime” legal counsel – here the legal advice itself is the crime.

Of course, the great joke in Watergate was that the crime was committed by the Counsel for the White House, and all actions after that were based on the Counsel’s attempt to cover up his own crime. Now that I put it that way, it sounds just like Fast and Furious.

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Carlosgv raises the best question – Reagan waived executive privilege to get to the bottom of Iran Contra. Perhaps we can all agree that Chauncey is no Reagan.

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To this unknowing lad,it would seem that there are facts being hidden.Now I realize this may not be the case,but I’d wager a fiver that I’m right.

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Something really smells with this administration, and it doesnt have anything to do with a certain kind of body odor…you feel me? It does have everything to do with the POTUS and his cronies running roughshot over our constitution…on every opportunity just to keep these bozos in office at any cost. How anyone, loony lib or not, can vote for this wannabe dictator is beyond any logical and intelligent thought…

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Yeah, well the program began in 2006 under Bush. Where were all you Monday morning QBs then??? Too busy cleaning your ‘W. The President.’ bumper stickers. What happened to those anyway/

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ByteMe: Lots of words subject to interpretation there.

That’s why they pay lawyers the big bucks to write letters like that.

The relevent passage on the last page, though, is this:

In brief, the compelled production to Congress of these internal Executive Branch documents generated in the course of the deliberative process concerning the Department’s response to congressional oversight and related media inquiries … would inhibit the candor of such Executive Branch deliberations in the future and significantly impair the Executive Branch’s ability to respond independently and effectively to congressional oversight.

As someone pointed out, above, same logic was used to keep Congress from seeing how Karl Rove had Federal Attorneys fired for not chasing bogus “voter fraud” claims. And, yes, I thought that was annoying then, but I can also now see how it’s the same basic principle. At a certain point, the two branches are either equal or they’re not. The Constitution says they are equal, which means oversight can only extend so far. I’m less annoyed now about the Attorneys being fired

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My lefties friends have been trying to convince me that there’s nothing to Fast and Furious because if it was a big deal they would have heard about it on CNN. I can’t seem to convince them that it’s not on CNN BECAUSE it’s a big deal. Maybe this will change their minds. After all, if there’s nothing to hide then why is the administration going through so much effort to hide things?

Cutty: Love the oft-repeated canard, who do you get your talking points from? Wide Receiver was a little different. The difference? In Wide Receiver they actively tracked the guns they let loose. In Fast and Furious they let the guns loose and then didn’t try to track them till they showed up at the scene of a dead American LEO.

But keep spreading the misinformation, maybe someone somewhere will believe you.

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We are using YOUR definition of torture right?

Nope. We’re using the one in the treaties our country signed and are sworn to uphold.

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Our leftist friends mislead. Program consideration began, in low levels, during the Bush administration. The purpose of the Fast and Furious program was to marshal public sentiment against widespread domestic sale of guns – a purpose at conflict with the laissez faire view of the 2nd Amendment during the Bush years. Fast and Furious, as a concept, rose quickly during the Obama administration due to the leftist antagonism to the 2nd Amendment, thus becoming a (typically misplaced) priority of Eric Holder. The foreseeable consequences of the secret program are blood on the hands of the leftists, only.

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At least Obama can no longer use the Sgt. Schultz line of “I know nothing; I see nothing”.

The hits keep coming.

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Dear Byte @ 11:22, good morning. Firing Federal employees, even Federal prosecutors, is legal, and within the sole discretion of the Executive. Proffering an illegal distribution of guns, in order to marshal public sentiment against the Constitution, is not legal, and reflects typical leftist mentality. The analogy you cite is bogus.

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Jimmy62- Fox said the same thing as you. Almost verbatim, lol.

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The Holder DOJ = a Joke:

(1) Failed to convict Roger Clemens; star witness was a proven liar
(2) Shelby COunty, Al vs. Holder – another lost for the lawyer wannabe
(3) Fast & Furious debacle
(4) etc.
(5) etc.

This guy is a clown.

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I can’t imagine anyone would actually think that relations between the White House and Congress were political.

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Cutty: Fox must be getting their talking points from me somehow, because I don’t watch Fox.

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Sometimes people say things that are so mind-numbingly stupid, all you can imagine is a drooling slack-jaw peeing in the corner of a room.

gm at 11:28 has given me one of those images.

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gm, what are you smoking, do all liberals have the same dope connection? That would explain a lot….

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Too bad it was just a federal agent and not a black homeless guy. The federal agent gets nothing, but a black homeless guy would get the full force of the right along with President Obama.

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Executive Privilege asserted, no different than past administrations when felt in best interest of national security or whatever. Keep it moving. Nothing to see here. But you will whine anyway I’m sure. Enjoy the taste of your tears. What harm could a little MORE salt do in your lives anyway? Just don’t let the snot ooze into your mouth.

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Dear Byte @ 11:33, disagree with your assertion of firing federal prosecutors – so long as there is no violation of the Hatch Act, they can be fired for good cause, bad cause, or no cause at all (thus the Clintons sacking every Federal prosecutor on Jan 21, 1993, the first day they held the power.) Otherwise you err in asserting that there is any conservative animus toward the second amendment, and that there is any leftist affection for the second amendment. This was painfully, obviously an effort to marshal public opinion, gone awry. An American officer died for the sake of leftist politics.

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“The White House invoked executive privilege yesterday in withholding subpoenaed documents on fired U.S. attorneys — Bush – June 2007″

Let’s see . . .

Firing U.S. attorneys who WORKED FOR BUSH – legal.

Running guns to Mexican drug lords and getting an American agent killed – illegal.

This administration and it’s defenders become more pitiful every day.

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“Executive Privilege asserted, no different than past administrations when felt in best interest of national security or whatever…”

Too bad the clown king Obama did not feel this way when the WH leaks info pertaining to the Iranian virus attacks on the Nuke facilities.

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Dear Byte @ 11:36, willful political blindness is a painful disability to overcome – urge you to endeavor to do so.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXWTdTnhebs

Liar, liar pants on fire!

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Dear Byte @ 11:33, I will agree that there is a difference between the actual goal, which I cited, and the “stated” goal, which you cited.

And you got this “actual goal” from where exactly? I’m guessing you didn’t make it up out of thin air, considering several others have offered the same paranoid nightmare.

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Dear Byte, you really ought to think this through. “Fast and Furious” was purportedly a sting, wherein the Obama administration distributed excellent quality firearms to Mexican drug cartels, in order to dismember the cartels? Is there not a piece of logic missing there, as in, “what would actually dismember the cartels?” The Holder department theory is that by constricting the legal sale of guns, the illegal sale would also stop. There is a hole in that logic.

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Our President needs to catch up with w on this and executive orders too.

Just to be fair and balanced.

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This story has absolutely no legs outside the Conservative media. Fox News etc.

Most of America could care less.

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Two wrongs do not make a right. I thought that was written on a stone somewhere, but it apparently does not apply, when Oblamer does something wrong. I guess he gets Executive Privilege.

It goes like “Oblamer ate too much at dinner”, Libs chime in, “Bush did it too.” So, I must infer that makes it right in Libtard land.

Bush did a lot that was wrong, he has been gone for 3.5 years, Oblamer is the President now.

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Old timer: “I thought Obama had never seen the documents….”

Old timer is RIGHT! Executive privilege for privacy applies only to the President’s documents. However, he has already claimed no knowledge. If the country weren’t so full of lemmings this alone would be tantamount to Watergate.What I find most offensive is that Obama thinks we are all stupid lemmings.

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This has shades of Obama’s Watergate. His administation could screw up a one car funeral.

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“Fast and Furious” was purportedly a sting, wherein the Obama administration distributed excellent quality firearms to Mexican drug cartels, in order to dismember the cartels? Is there not a piece of logic missing there, as in, “what would actually dismember the cartels?”

Start over. Your facts are missing a few things. Like the operation started in 2006. The goal was to track them and find the higher-ups. Get rid of the higher-ups, weaken the cartels (it worked in Columbia, sort of). I said it was flawed, no doubt about that. They should have used drugs from Afghanistan instead… would have shown a creative flair this lacked.

But the paranoid fantasy you’ve bought into about “marshalling public support against firearms” is just waaaay out there.

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“Your facts are missing a few things. Like the operation started in 2006.”

No, it didn’t. That was a different and completely separate operation. Nice try.

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And, we thought the Clinton gang was corrupt. The Mark Rich pardon, the Monica coverup, and White Water scandal pales in comparison to covering up a crime that resulted in a death.

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Did he torture?

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GM, 9-11 belongs to Clinton and no one else.

Wow. So I guess Clintons repeated attempts to kill OBL and his stressing to Bush that OBL was a problem mean nothing. I still remember the Republican talking heads the night Clinton tried to take out OBL saying he was just distracting people from Monica Lewinsky and that OBL wasn’t that big of a deal.

Meanwhile Bush went into operation ignore and he and Rumsfield and Rice were telling everyone how we needed this missile defense system.

They were stuck in a cold war mentality and it cost us big time.

9/11 was on W’s watch. Not Clinton.

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This is not surprising. 0bama considers himself and his band of thugs to be ruling by fiat, therefore above the law and beyond reproach. They all need to be gone, yesterday. John McCain, flawed as he may be, would not have done this.

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while I am against everything the Obama administration does, I disagree with your view of executive privilege

I think you meant to say you “agree” with me, because the rest of what you said sure sounded like you agreed with me. I know it’s hard to admit it, though

What makes the Holder assertion wrong here is that a crime – “illegal distribution of firearms in furtherance of criminal activities” – was knowingly committed by the Department of Justice

Actually, no it doesn’t. Read the document link I posted at the top. What’s being withheld is the internal documents used to shape the DOJ response to congressional oversight. Has nothing to do with the legality of the operation; that’s being investigated by an Inspector General who has lots more power over DOJ employees than Congress.

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Iran-Contra all over again except the shoe is on the other foot. Holder will become a Republican Hero and talking head on Fox. Twenty years from now nobody will remember anything and another stupid international situation will surface.

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Dear Byte @ 12:02, I wrote to “me” ignorant of your 11:53 post – but I have no reservation acknowledging that you and I agree on the scope of the privilege. You and I disagree on the propriety of its use in this instance.

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reagan used it one time so they are tied.

w used it 6 times.

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Dear Byte @ 12:02, you may be horrified that I agree with most of your post:

“What’s being withheld is the internal documents used to shape the DOJ response to congressional oversight. Has nothing to do with the legality of the operation; that’s being investigated by an Inspector General who has lots more power over DOJ employees than Congress.”

An “Inspector General” reports to the Attorney General, and has no power over any DoJ employee. There is nothing “legal” that would prevent simultaneous investigations. On the other hand, under what circumstances would you defend shielding an illegal cover-up from Congressional oversight? The analogy to Watergate is nearly perfect.

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Wrong. A similar, but much smaller, operation began in 2006 and ended in 2007. It ended precisely because the Bush DOJ realized its methods of tracking the guns had failed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fast_and_Furious

Same basic operation. Same basic outcome. I’ve already agreed that the operation was flawed (I’ll even go with “bordering on stupid”). I refuse to accept the paranoid fantasies that are coming out of some of your blog citizens, though without some basic proof.

Let me know when this current fight is over anything other than the DOJ withholding internal documents related to DOJ handling of Congressional oversight.

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rag,

nixon was a kook.

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“Obama who EARNED his way through Harvard and EARNED”

Too bad he wont release his Harvard grades so we could actually see what he earned.

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Obiwan- Bush used it to prevent the release the documents regarding the death of Pat Tillman. But I’m sure you’ll say there’s a difference.

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Good afternoon Getalife @ 12:14, the similarities between Obama and Nixon are amazing. Enemies list, anyone?

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The Tillman cover up was disgusting.

He was fragged for his opinion on the Iraq occupation.

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I don’t understand the connection with Bush except perhaps it’s another of Bush’s policies that President Spineless continued (see tax cuts, Guantanamo et al)…not sure of the similarities but those who still blame Bush for everything are simply admitting by default that President Trillions is incapable of leading us to change or reverse those issues subject to his blame game…

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Obama graduated Magna Cum Laude, which, according to the Harvard Law School website, is awarded to the top 10% of the school’s students

The troll meant Obama’s high school grades. That’s what they’re reduced to when ODS starts infecting the brain stem.

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Am not surprised, but rather amuse, by the leftie’s “defense” of Obama’s assertion by simply saying other presidents did it too. Yes, they did, but in most instances it was to cover up something improper, which is the main issue here. So, instead of defending by say “you did it too,” why don’t your try to address the real issue, which is Obama and his crowd messed up and now are trying to cover their butts. Justify away please. Face it Dems, the POTUS is really messing things up on just about all fronts. Can’t wait for November.
P.S. It really is about the economy, and I for one would absolutely love from someone to explain to me how a former community organizer, first-term senator has any relevant experience in relation to addressing economic issues.

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“Obama graduated Magna Cum Laude, which, according to the Harvard Law School website, is awarded to the top 10% of the school’s students”

Then why have sealed records. Something smells very bad and I dont think its Michelle.

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ragnar, I really do feel bad for you. I know, I’m such a leftist for feeling that sorry for you, but there it is.

I’m going to go get food and do something revenue-generating (argh! there I go again, spoiling my leftist creds! ).

Play nice people! Try to learn something new today that goes against something you believe.

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Enter your comments here

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Too bad that Harvard designation doesn’t make him qualified to be president. Neither did his untenured professorship, community activist, or junior senator who didn’t finish term….we elected a mouthpiece who has failed miserably…you would think a constitutional lawyer would realize that a contract involves 2 WILLING parties…another show of disrespect for our tax dollars…

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These clowns are worse than the Nixon administration ever dreamed of being,,, Open and transparent,,,I don’t think so. The CYA train is running right on schedule and Obama is the engineer.

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At the last minuet, claim executive provalege…sounds as if there is something to hid..but lets see holder’s and Obama’s record..holder, being the top cop of the USA is suppose to enforce the law, not decide which laws are ok and which are not. The blakc Panthers in harrasing voters..nothing, suing States on protecting the boarders, suing States that insure voters are legitimate, using the race card to avoid investigation, allowing NLRB to ignore the 10th amendment regarding the South Carolina / Boeing situation, ignoring the Defense of Marriage Act. All point out that the TOP COP and OBAMA feel they can pick and choose which laws they like and whihc they do not…but it is not their job – condem by congress, both should be charged with treason..that is correct..TREASON!!!

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with your kroger card, that is $2.94 for gas.

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9/11 was on W’s watch. Not Clinton

So, he is responsible for what happened 8 months into his presidency. Not allowed to say he inherited Osama. I agree!

So Oblamer, should shut his pie hole about something he inherited 3.5 years ago, quit playing golf, and do something to get this economy running and clean up the corruption that his regime brought to Washington.

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These clowns are worse than the Nixon administration

I guess the W administration made Nixon’s team look like a bunch of boy scouts?

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I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

June 20th, 2012
11:46 am
This story has absolutely no legs outside the Conservative media. Fox News etc.

Most of America could care less.
_____________________________________________
Are you saying that you “could care less” that several people lost their lives as a result of this program?

Are you saying that those lives are not important?

BTW, Bush sucked and I did not vote for him in 2004, but I DID vote for Obama in 2008.

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After 48 hours this topic will dicussed on only 1 channel – the channel that creates and reinfoces rightwing talking points.

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Weird!

Obama’s well known for tossing people under the bus…why not Holder? It’s not like he’s a capable AG.

Maybe Holder wasn’t willing to fall on his sword for Obama.

Obama knew.

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If this program had been discontinued, the drug cartels would have been weaponless and the killing orgy wouldn’t have happened.

We probably wouldn’t even have a problem with drugs in this country. All us US citizens would’ve quit using them.

Right?

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Kyle Wingfield

June 20th, 2012
11:59 am
And one ATF agent and scores of Mexicans wound up dead.
__________________________________________________________
Kyle, the U.S. death toll may actually be higher.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20106253-10391695.html

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He proved he was a crook with the Marc Rich pardon during the Clinton administration. He proved he is a liar with his testimony to Congress on Fast and Furious.

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Ya’ll are soooo concerned about the death of one federal officer?

What about the death of 4,000 federal employees in a war that we were lied into, with nothing accomplished by it?

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No thing is for sure.

Objectivity has no place on either Kyle’s or Jay’s blogs.

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well ragnar that’s really funny because when he invoked the priviledge he statead that he had Nothing to do with the firings; but now you’re saying he DID?!? Are you saying the President LIED about deliberatig firing AG’s because they wouldn’t uphold his political agenda?

Why I’m shocked SHOCKED I tell you!!! GASP!!!!

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ragnar: Obama asserts the privilege in furtherance of a cover-up of criminal activity that led to the death of a Federal officer

Well now, speaking of coverups concerning a death…………:

***On July 13, less than a week after claiming executive privilege for Miers and Taylor, Counsel Fielding effectively claimed the privilege once again, this time in relation to documents related to the 2004 death of Army Ranger Pat Tillman. In a letter to the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, Fielding claimed certain papers relating to discussion of the friendly-fire shooting “implicate Executive Branch confidentiality interests” and would therefore not be turned over to the committee

Hi Pot! Where’s Kettle?

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“What about the death of 4,000 federal employees in a war that” were sent via a resolution of Congress?!?

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This “Fast & Furious” debacle was intentionally designed in an attempt to “prove” guns are going to criminal elements and must be controlled (aka stopped.) They specifically told agents, who knew the program was insane, to “stand down” and let the guns go in a pathetic attempt to make us think there was a problem with gun sales here in the US. Our US govt is caught arming criminals and even using “stimulus” money to do so. And now the govt needs to strengthen gun laws so criminals can’t get weapons as easily?! What people should be asking is, why would a new law be required to catch guys breaking an existing law? When you piece the puzzle together–the absence of genuine investigative strategies, the lack of goals, objectives and a credible endgame, the ‘secret’ nature of the operation hidden from Congress and the American public, the hidden funding, the warning to frontline ATF agents to stand down and shut up, DOJ’s refusal to submit requested documents to Congress even after the issuance of subpeonas, DOJ/ATF stonewalling, the continued denials and cover up and now invoking executive privilege –well, you get the picture.

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Sen Charles Grassly:

“In his eagerness to blame the previous administration, Attorney General Holder got his facts wrong. And his tactic didn’t bring us any closer to understanding how a bad policy evolved and continued. Bad policy is bad policy, regardless of how many administrations carried it out. Ironically, the only document produced yesterday by the Department appears to show that senior officials in the Attorney General’s own Department were strategizing about how to keep gunwalking in both Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious under wraps.”

Grassly is correct.

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National Security??????????????
I guess O’Bama doesn’t want Mexico knowing the whole truth, ya think?

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It is also funny how Holder has now had to retract three testimonies for the congressional hearings with one alleging that the Bush Administration and Senior Justice officials had prior knowledge of Operation Wide Receiver, a retraction he later apologized for.

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If F/F could be blamed on Bush, don’t you think Holder/Obama would have released every single document in existence?

This is yet another shameful example of our elected leaders having no idea what leadership is. Then again, it is the party of “please define “is”".

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**George W. Bush invoked executive privilege “in substance” in refusing to disclose the details of Vice President Dick Cheney’s meetings with energy executives, which was not appealed by the GAO.
***Further, on June 28, 2007, Bush invoked executive privilege in response to congressional subpoenas requesting documents from former presidential counsel Harriet Miers and former political director Sara Taylor.
***On July 9, 2007, Bush again invoked executive privilege to block a congressional subpoena requiring the testimonies of Taylor and Miers. Furthermore, White House Counsel Fred F. Fielding refused to comply with a deadline set by the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee to explain its privilege claim, prove that the president personally invoked it, and provide logs of which documents were being withheld.
***On July 13, less than a week after claiming executive privilege for Miers and Taylor, Counsel Fielding effectively claimed the privilege once again, this time in relation to documents related to the 2004 death of Army Ranger Pat Tillman. In a letter to the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, Fielding claimed certain papers relating to discussion of the friendly-fire shooting “implicate Executive Branch confidentiality interests” and would therefore not be turned over to the committee.[13]
***On August 1, 2007, Bush invoked the privilege for the fourth time in little over a month, this time rejecting a subpoena for Karl Rove. The subpoena would have required the President’s Senior Advisor to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee in a probe over fired federal prosecutors. In a letter to Senate Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy, Fielding claimed that “Mr. Rove, as an immediate presidential advisor, is immune from compelled congressional testimony about matters that arose during his tenure and that relate to his official duties in that capacity….”[14]
Leahy claimed that President Bush was not involved with the employment terminations of U.S. attorneys. Furthermore, he asserted that the president’s executive privilege claims protecting Josh Bolten, and Karl Rove are illegal. The Senator demanded that Bolten, Rove, Sara Taylor, and J. Scott Jennings comply “immediately” with their subpoenas, presumably to await a further review of these matters. This development paved the way for a Senate panel vote on whether to advance the citations to the full Senate. “It is obvious that the reasons given for these firings were contrived as part of a cover up and that the stonewalling by the White House is part and parcel of that same effort”, Leahy concluded about these incidents.
<SIDENOTE: As of July 17, 2008, Rove is still claiming executive privilege to avoid a congressional subpoena. Rove’s lawyer writes that his client is “constitutionally immune from compelled congressional testimony. ” You know I’ve read the constitution and did a little research trying to find the precedent, but you know something funny? It was nowhere to be found………….

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^^^^^^^^^

Like I said before…libs want to make this all about who, when and why executive privilege has been used over the past half century. Anything to obfuscate the facts that Holder and his minions have blood on their hands and Obama is covering it up.

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I’m sure Brian Terry’s family appreciates the Obama Administration and his Justice department getting to the truth of the matter. If Obama had a Brother-in-Law from his Mother’s side of the family he’d look like Brian Terry…..

Yet the same self-loathing American citizens will line up to support this crooked narcissist in November. Make Putin, Ahmadinejad, Hamas, Assad, Hezebollah, the worlds Marxist day and haters of America, truth and integrity – vote Obama in November.

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Bytome – Since you choose to bring up “torture” again as one of your idiotic talking points. Let me make one thing perfectly clear – I would have water-boarded a terrorist on National TV if it would have saved American lives!! Yes, I understand you liberal wimps do not think like that!

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What’s with all the George Bush stuff. George Bush is not president. Hasn’t been for going on 4 years.

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Obama is very arrogant or very stupid. By enacting exec priviledge he did exactly what Issa wanted.

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I guess because I can’t be called a “wingnut”, “bushbot”, or repub, I will not get an answer to my questions at 12:57.

At what point does party take a backseat to the truth?

Do(es) the life/lives of your fellow citizens mean anything? Or is it party before anything.

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“Ya’ll are soooo concerned about the death of one federal officer?

What about the death of 4,000 federal employees in a war that we were lied into, with nothing accomplished by it?”

Pathetic attempt to avoid the topic. Totally expected from you though.

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I love the “we are no worse then you” from DebbieDoYouRight. I thought your side was supposed to be standing on the high moral ground?

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Dear Debbie @ 1:45, we would not expect your reading comprehension to facilitate understanding: “”<SIDENOTE: As of July 17, 2008, Rove is still claiming executive privilege to avoid a congressional subpoena. Rove’s lawyer writes that his client is “constitutionally immune from compelled congressional testimony. ” You know I’ve read the constitution and did a little research trying to find the precedent, but you know something funny? It was nowhere to be found………….

Perhaps you also noticed that there is no Constitutional power vested in Congress to demand testimony from any other co-equal branch. The "check" is the power of impeachment.

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Dear Cheesy Grits @ 2:57, do you support the Obama administration cover-up?

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Obama and Holder never mind you have saved thousands maybe millions of American lives by intervene future terrorist attacks you continue killing these people with all the scum on the right from Hannity to Rush, makes you wonder why did you bother?””””

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Impeach him and Holder both. He should have been impeached a LONG time ago.

And so everyone is clear that I believe in the rule of law and am not just another Bush-loving appeaser, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Powell, Feith, and so many more in the Bush administration should be immediately brought up on war crimes charges and other criminal charges related to their violation of constitutional oath, obstruction of justive, lying to congress and the american people, etc. And add all those charges to Obama and Biden as well.

The founding fathers anticipated that impeachment would be used quite ofter to keep check on the executive branch. Sadly the executive branch is now a totalitarian dictatorship with no perceptible limits on its behavior. The signing of the NDAA and the summary execution of the american citizen and his son in Pakistan should have put this man behind bars before nightfall, but that just shows how spineless the congress has become as well.

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Kyle

You seem to be inspiring more howling from people who aren’t voting for Obama anyway rather than substantive conversation on the issue. By the way, unless you are privy to exactly what is being withheld, I’m assuming that you don’t take the official reasons for the President to invoke his executive rights. I don’t really think that this is something that decide the election one way or the other….I am more concerned about why it’s taken Issa 14 months to get to this point….he really doesn’t have anything else on his plate. The timing on this contempt hearing is about as suspicious as the executive order on immigration policy….it’s all in the eye of the partisan. Perhaps at some point the country will actually start having discussions about the matter which will decide the election and that is the direction of economic policy. This matter between Holder and Issa is just a warmup for the real ballgame.

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Dear Mr. Liberty @ 3:15, I also believe in rule of law and hold no particular affection for many actions of the Bush administration, but I find no “war crime,” and no perjury committed by Bush 43 or Cheney or Rumsfeld or Rice or Feith. Mr. Powell may be guilty of concealing a crime in that he knew it was his aide who discussed Valerie Plame with a reporter.

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If an individual had done what the DoJ did in “Fast and Furious,” there is no real question that the crime would be prosecuted. The only real question is why the commission of a crime by the DoJ ought not be prosecuted.

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Holder should step down, if just for the purpose of ending this distraction, so Congress can go onto doing the people’s business. Please, just go back to work. We needs jobs, we need to fix health care, we need to fix bridges, and roads, …

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Dear Kyle, would you tell us how many President’s have exercised executive priviledge? My guess is this has been going on for a long time and is probably equally divided between the parties (Whigs if you go back a couple of centuries). So what’s your beef? It’s bad because Obama exercised it?

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JDW – If the death of a federal agent is a sideshow, then you sir, are a contemptible person without enough walking around sense to respond to.

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ragnar: Perhaps you also noticed that there is no Constitutional power vested in Congress to demand testimony from any other co-equal branch. The “check” is the power of impeachment.

Hmmm interseting…… which “Co-Equal Branch” was Rove nominated into? So is the CIA agent, who guards the president, also considered part of that Co-Equal branch too? Or is it only limited to republicans in power at the time?

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ragnar: (1) Even if Bush had personally directed the firing of the Federal prosecutors that would not have been a crime. Invocation of executive privilege is appropriate for such a legal internal matter.

Dear Ragnar even the president has to follow the Labor Laws — sorry.

(2) We agree that the Bush administration did not reveal that Pat Tilman was killed by friendly fire, rather allowing the perception of a heroic death to persist.

Well ragnar, how did you come to that conclusion? through a crystal ball? The information behind Tillman’s death was never revealed by the Bush Administration. So how can you ASSume anything? Perhaps you called the Psychic Network……………

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Always have to like the “he did it first” justification for wrongdoing…….that will certainly serve us all well going forward. It’s a bit like saying it’s ok to add another 15 trillion to our debt because the other guys did it too………

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So what’s your beef? It’s bad because Obama exercised it?

Thats it exactly. Only Republicans are allowed to assert Executive Privilege.

Democrats are not allowed to do the same.

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Holder should go to prison for his roll in this and maybe Obama too if and when everything comes out.

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I keep seeing people saying that Holder offered Issa a chance to get what he wanted and Issa rejected the offer, and thus this is a political gotcha game. But the offer from Holder was to give the documents Issa wanted if Issa agreed that would be the end of it. How is that an offer worth taking? That’s like a serial killer saying, “Sure, I’ll give you all the evidence you need, but only if you promise to drop the whole thing after.”

If the documents Holder refuses to produce show that Holder really is a liar and very liable for F&F, Issa would be a moron to take his deal. Issa’s refusal isn’t political, it’s simply Issa not being stupid.

How about this? If there’s nothing to hide, why doesn’t he produce the documents without delay?

Personally I think in the end this is going to turn out to be the result of some bad decision making, but nothing horrific, and probably nothing even close to impeachment-worthy. Heck, it may not even reflect badly on Obama and Holder…. Except their stonewalling is creating more problems for them than it’s worth… Unless there really is something to hide.

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It’s always amusing to read the heated discussions here. Without knowing exactly what the Obama administration is shielding from public eyes via Executive Privilege there’s no way of knowing what’s really going on here. But that doesn’t prevent the Right from immediately assuming the worst or the Left from dismissing the entire incident out of kind. It probably will be a hot-button item for a while but I just don’t see this having enough legs to reach November.

I thought the apparent 2004 friendly fire Tillman usage was the worst recent occurrence because I just couldn’t see how the Executive Branch was even involved. It truly reeked of a cover-up to protect somebody in the military. And surely an army ranger is as worthy of the truth as a border patrol agent. But there’s nothing illegal or immoral in using Executive Privilege per se; heck, even George Washington used it. I will readily admit though that it’s both sad and amusing that Obama finally uses this after publicly criticizing its use years ago.

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Must be the 26 billion dollars the Mexican (Mafia) Government makes off the U>S> every year(give or take some)and you think there is nothing in it for our politicians?

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News Flash, for liberals only, Bush is NOT president any more, and effectively since 2006 when congress and senate had the super majority, of democrats. So quite honestly the economic issues we have now is 100% owned by the democrats..

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The gist of it as far as I can tell:

The WH and Holder initially tell the masses that they don’t know much about the operation but will get to the bottom of it……fast forward and we now have executive privilege being used from a couple of guys that earlier knew very little about it.

If that doesn’t smell fishy to everybody, then one may want to check their sniffer……..

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Not only are there numerous signs of behind-the-scenes shadiness that we already know about — the timing inconsistencies, Holder’s misstatements — there’s also the death of a U.S. Border Patrol agent at the top of the story. Is the Obama administration actually going to argue that the family of Agent Brian Terry doesn’t deserve to know the full circumstances surrounding his death?

Um, yes they do.

This is going to git obozo.

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DebbieDoRight – A Do Right Woman
June 20th, 2012
5:11 p
Bush is NOT president any more

At least he was one, your dude is nothing but a male cheerleader with pom poms. Go vote for Rah Rah again Debbie!

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“(CNN) — A new national survey indicates President Barack Obama has opened up a double digit lead.”

The gop are panicking.

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If the F/F investigation is a “stunt” and “witch hunt”, as the Libs claim,Oblamer could really make a fool out of Issa and the GOP, by releasing those documents.

I’m guessing he will fight tooth and nail to keep them under wraps.

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Tell the truth right wing bigots this is about Obama using his power, its was ok for Clinton 14 times and Bush 6 times oh I forgot they were white, you people are really showing who you are””

You’re the bigot here. If you hate white people fine, but unfortunately for you, it doesn’t mean a thing to most whites. Our lives go on fine, as we pass your shuffling a$$es to and from the breakroom, watch some of you fall asleep at your desk or hear the snoring from the handicapped stall in the bathroom. The worst part is, people of “color” from africa, brazil and other countries are laughing with us whites on this as they bust a$$ and are educating themselves to improve their lot in life watching your sense of entitlement, and how money is owed to you because you clock in on time.

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“Amazing idiots like you felt no outrage when Bush lied to Americans and we lost over 4500 America troops….”

I have to call bs on this one…..Congress was privy to the same intel that Bush had and voted to go forward…..revisionist history won’t change that fact.

And the new guy took over 3.5 years ago with a dem congress and had the choice (there’s that word again) to pull out whenever his little heart desired…….he made the choice to pull out on Bush’s timeline and also made the choice to surge in Afghanistan…….so the bs meeter is pegging on that post.

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“you people are really showing who you are”

At least one of us sure is…….too bad that one more than likely doesn’t even see it.

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.he made the choice to pull out on Bush’s timeline and also made the choice to surge in Afghanistan…

That’s because he can’t figure s@!t out on his own. Take his teleprompter away and see how smart you think he is. There’s a reason we haven’t seen his trancripts.

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“(CNN) — A new national survey indicates President Barack Obama has opened up a double digit lead.”

Consider the source.

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JDW, I’m sure the Terry family appreciates you referring the killing of their son through the reckless actions of this administration as a political stunt.

You really are a steaming pile of excrement.

Do you also spit on our Iraq and Afghanistan vets when you see them on the street?

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JDW, I’m sure the Terry family appreciates you referring the killing of their son through the reckless actions of this administration as a political stunt.

I’m sure they really appreciate right wing trolls waving that bloody shirt around as well. Goose sauce, meet gander sauce.

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Terry’s killer(s) were going to stay home that day and watch some tv, do a little gardening, wash the car, but out of nowhere Obama handed them a gun, something which they had never ever had in their possession before, and so decided instead to go out and kill an American border agent. Great story bro!

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out of nowhere Obama handed them a gun, something which they had never ever had in their possession before

because they were incredibly difficult to obtain!

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the side choosers jump on the one from bloomburg…..

Yep, md. I agree that’s dumb.

Obviously there are going to be headline-grabbing outlier polls, lots of them, between now and Nov.

I prefer looking at a couple of amalgamators; RCP and 538, and figure that both are bound to have at least something of a house effect, no matter how much they try to play it down the middle.

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Going to be interesting to see what happens.

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It is always the cover-up not the crime. Wish we could bring Sen Sam Ervin back from the great beyond, so once again we could hear him say. “What did the President know, and when did he know it?”

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md

June 20th, 2012
6:41 pm
“It is beyond idiotic because it purports that if the murderer(s) had not had a “fast and furious” gun they would not have had a gun at all?”

I believe idiocy would be to rule out all “possibilities”, of which the above would be one.
______________________________________________________________
Let’s consider the possiblity that Ted Nugent stole one of the guns and planted it at the crime scene. Or skittle crapping unicorns. Or the monkeys that will soon fly out of my butt.

I’m so sure that the fast and furious weapons represent the vast majority of guns in Mexico, and without them, the drug violence of the past would never have taken place. In fact, here in Wingnuttistan, we believe there were no guns in Mexico, and no gun violence at all, until Obama and Holder launched their dastardly plot. Puhleaaase.

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@Tiberuis…”You really are a steaming pile of excrement.”

And you are a F*&$ing moron…I referred to Issa and his political sideshow. You in your stupidity are twisting my words.

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.just another entry in the Presidential “Holy Crap” Book of Secrets………..

md, I just wished he put the same emphasis on protecting our national security secrets as he does his and his regime’s secrets. New leak this AM, reporting on the new virus they have unleashed on the Iranians. Guess he has given up on the make them a friend strategy.

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Rafe…..and I guess we’ll have to wait for the guy to leave office before we ever see an independent special prosecutor appointed. Smacks of corruption when the entity in charge of appointing special prosecutors is the same entity that needs looking into. Although Congress can do it, the numbers are not there to do it. Must be time to allow the SC to do it if they see the others are hamstrung by politics….

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md
Amazing how things run in circles, it is John Mitchell/Nixon all over again. You are right, it may take 20 years before we find out the truth about what really happened. Maybe a “Deep Throat” will appear, that is what blew the Nixon cover up. Unfortunately, he better not waste his time, with the WaPO this time, they would out him to the Oblamer regime, I’m afraid.

Just heard quote from Brian Terry’s mother, she said she was sad that we had an administration that was more concerned with covering up their involvement, than finding out the truth.

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Kyle: it’s a good thing Bookman is on vacation this week. Maybe your post count will break 300.

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Andy, bless yore little heart! See, you’re not a total outcast. You’re among people who love you here on Wingnut’s pathetic little blog. And, guess what? Come November, Mitt Dumbney is going to suffer the same fate as John McPain. Total defeat.

Why? Well, it’s really simple: they just ain’t that many old white guys and backwoods, bumpkin, redneck rubes. You’re in a minority, get it?

But, heck, don’t give up hope. They’s always 2016, when Hillary’s gonna kick yore ass again!

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“Yeah and the average IQ will plummet into the negative numbers.”

yes when you post over at Bookman’s that is exactly what happens

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“Obama Uses Executive Privilege in Holder Case”

get crackin’ Obama the Mammmmba (thwack!) owner of cons ebbywhere
you got to use that thing 20+ more times
to equal the Republican hypocrites.
doink

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“The fact is the government is refusing to reveal the facts that led to the death of a border agent.”

He was killed by a Mexican national. The weapon that killed him was part of plan, begun under the Bush administration, to try to track guns being funneled to the Mexican drug lords.

The guns, by maligned fate, would up in the hands of the Mexican national who killed him. What is so hard to understand?

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Dusty: I think he’s gone for the entire week.

Hey, Fright-Wingers, I’m leaving for a while. You can come out now. But I’ll be checking in again, so look out!

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WHEN IS BOOKMAN RETURNING??????

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Oh how I long for the days when we had AG’s of character like Alberto Gonzales. When we just packed the federal bench and justice was just another arm of the executive branch.

Things were so much simpler then.

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The cons think Holder is hiding a conspiracy to take their guns.

Even Andy is not that kooky.

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Imagine 2400 comments exactly like this-

barking frog

G Mare
i thought i misspelled.
your funny was good too.
the separated worked as
well.

Why would anyone want to be in the middle of that mind numbing nonsense?

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gitmo- Clinging to the same poll that has Americans favoring amnesty by 73%?

How sad.

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getalie: the poll wound up that way because Bloomberg took samples from all 57 states plus the people who speak Austrian.

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Obozo is criminally incompetent. His voters are accomplices.

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I leave for a few hours and come back to find Obama’s libtards are still lauding Dear Leader for pouring the Clorox on Holders hands and helping him wash the blood off. Sick, sick people.

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So what have we learned today?

We learned that liberals think that getting a family information on how a gun-running operation by this administration killed their son is a “political stunt”.

We learned that liberals think that invoking Executive Privilege by Bush for Karl Rove in the firing of U.S. Attorneys (a completely legal act) is equivalent to Obama invoking Executive Privilege when his Justice Dept. gets a U.S. citizen killed because of their incompetence.

We learned that despite Eric Holder walking back his comments about “Fast & Furious” being just a continuation of a Bush program, liberals still claim that it was – when it clearly wasn’t.

We learned that Democrats on Rep. Issa’s committee are still the spineless weasels we thought them to be.

We learned that Obama and Holder rival the Nixon / Mitchell duo for the most secretive and corrupt President / Attorney General in American history. Oh, and no one got killed in the Watergate break-in.

In short, we didn’t learn anything we didn’t already know.

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That’s Transparency for you!

The sad part is many of the voters don’t care that they were duped. Oh well I was lied too. I don’t care he still gets my vote.

GO FIGURE?!?!

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