A very bad 12 hours for the Obama campaign
The Obama campaign is fast running out of bullets.
The double-whammy of Bill Clinton’s remarks last night — about Mitt Romney’s “sterling business career” — and the abysmal job-creation numbers that came out this morning has got to force some soul-searching from the West Wing to Hyde Park.
The Obama campaign will look simply foolish trying to continue peddling its attacks on Romney’s years at Bain Capital after what Clinton said on CNN last night:
In case you didn’t/can’t watch, here’s the gist:
So I don’t think that we ought to get in the position where we say this is bad work, this is good work. I think, however, the real issue ought to be what has Governor Romney advocated in the campaign that he will do as president? What has President Obama done and what does he propose to do? How do these things stack up against each other, that’s the most relevant thing. There’s no question that in terms of getting up and going to the office and, you know, basically performing the essential functions of the office, a man who’s been governor and had a sterling business career crosses the qualification threshold.
Clinton went on to say he believes the Obama record and proposals would be better for America than Romney’s would be, and it would be a far bigger story if he had said otherwise. But if Obama believes that, too, why isn’t he running on his record? In large part, I have to believe, because the record is not good. And that doesn’t help his pitch when his proposals are basically for more of the same.
In any case, the damage was done before Clinton made those qualifying remarks, because his defense of Romney’s qualifications are a direct contradiction of the distinction Obama tried to make recently: that running a private-equity firm doesn’t match up well with the job description for the presidency.
With the Democratic Party’s elder statesman now joining those other Democrats who have expressed misgivings about the Obama campaign’s anti-Bain attacks, the attacks are all but neutralized. More and more, Obama looks out of step with his own party on this issue.
And his record on the economy gets harder to defend with each report showing the economy has no momentum. Jobs growth of 69,000 in May represents about half of what’s needed simply to keep up with population growth. The rest of the report is a mixed bag at best: The labor force participation rate nudged upward, which is good news, but unfortunately so did the number of people working part-time who would prefer to work full-time.
Earlier this week, economic growth in the first quarter was revised downward to 1.9 percent from the initial estimate of 2.2 percent. The bad economic news and worries from Europe during the past week pushed the Dow this morning into the red for the year. The S&P 500 is still ahead for 2012, but it’s down almost 10 percent in the past two months. So, retirement accounts are taking a beating right now, and that won’t give people confidence.
As long as this drumbeat of bad economic news keeps up, there will be regular interruptions in the Obama campaign’s preferred narrative of distraction issues: the “war on women,” etc.
Ironically, the best argument for Obama right now is that the president never deserves as much credit or blame for the economy as he gets. And that’s true. The problem is that you can’t very well make that argument on behalf of a president who has spent three-plus years trying to gain more control of the economy through higher spending and more regulation.
It seems to me this leaves the president with one choice: Presenting a raft of new ideas for the future. The problem with that tactic is his demonstrated lack of ideas that are anything more than recycled efforts from Democratic presidents past, Europe, or both: “stimulus” spending financed through borrowing or higher taxes on “the rich,” greater government control of health care, cap and trade, and so on.
The longer this pattern persists, the more likely it is to show up in the polls. Already, we’re seeing Obama’s number steadily declining, even as he remains a couple of points above Romney on average. As the incumbent, Obama doesn’t want to see his numbers consistently in the 45-47 percent range, even this far out. He’s the more-known quantity, and it suggests people don’t like what they know.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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179 comments Add your comment
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 1st, 2012
11:39 am
A bad 12 hours for Obama is a good 12 hours for the future health of America.
redneckbluedog
June 1st, 2012
11:54 am
YEP….Obama sucks…but the alternative looks like this….
We either enter an unbudgeted war with Iran or head into a deflationary spiral…
we will then either turn directly Socialist….OR….
try austerity like France and Greece, which will fail miserably……THEN….
will turn Socialist….
iggy
June 1st, 2012
11:54 am
Failing policies, Clinton, Jobs numbers…LOL!! Just keeps getting better.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
11:55 am
wow, so easy to see Conservatives want America to fail. They are rooting for it!
just because they didn’t win the white house 4 years ago.
Is that the definition of patriotism?
iggy
June 1st, 2012
11:58 am
Right now America is failing but not because of Conservative desires.
Progressive Humanist
June 1st, 2012
12:00 pm
Higher spending and more regulation by this administration is a myth, and myths don’t become real the more times you tell them. You put “rich” in quotes as if the wealthiest one percent of the country don’t actually qualify as rich. What world do you live in?
And we haven’t actually tried cap and trade, or government control of healthcare, or even a sufficient stimulus yet. None of those have actually gone into effect, although they need to.
What we have tried is the same failed policies that got us into this mess and that Romney would bring back if he had the chance- lowering taxes on the wealthy at a time of historically low taxes and crumbling infrastructure, continuing U.S. involvement in foreign wars with the associated human and monetary costs, more deregulation of financial industries so that they reap all the benefits while taxpayers pay all the costs, closing down factories and industries in the U.S. only to ship the jobs overseas. Of course we’ll have lowlifes like Tiberius come on here rooting for the U.S. to fail, but if Romney becomes president, which is still a real long shot, it will make this recent recession seem like the good old days when unemployment hits 25% and poverty is at 40%.
Grasshopper
June 1st, 2012
12:00 pm
Did you catch Obama’s hatchet man – David Axelrod – getting hammered by the crowd in Boston yesterday?
Priceless! I bet they don’t roll his carcass out to many unscripted events in the future.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sny_Wkgf6g&feature=related
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
12:00 pm
Supply creates its own demand.
There’s an endless supply of apples at Kroger, but I just don’t have a demand for more than one a day – no matter the price. My demand is limited.
Sony and Panasonic make an endless supply of tv’s but I only have so many room in my house to put one. My demand is limited.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
12:03 pm
Now I know what Hannity means when he says “You’re a Great American.”
It means you’re just like me – you want to see the country fail and totally fall apart just so’s we can get my guy (who is pretty much just like their guy) into the White House.
HIPPOCRIT
June 1st, 2012
12:07 pm
PROG HUM wants us to try the policies that have Europe on the brink of collapse (cap & trade, stimulus, govt healthcare, )
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
12:08 pm
Supply creates its own demand.
If Apple marks the Ipod down to $5, why would I want more than 2? Can I listen to more than one at a time? The second one purchased would be to get a separate charger so’s I don’t have to tote a charger between work and home.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 1st, 2012
12:09 pm
Laughing out loud watching the liberal panel on Alex Wagner’s MSNBC show trying to find ways to spin this as anything but disastrous news for Obama.
And of course I want America to fail, Finn. If it didn’t it would give someone an idea that these policies of the past 3 years were somehow good for America.
Which have, of course, been proven to be bad for America.
TallaDawg
June 1st, 2012
12:09 pm
The only policy “failures” have been because Republican-controlled Congress eviscerated the Healthcare bill to ensure insurance companies were allowed to hold Americans hostage and stood in the way of the kind of tax reform that is necessary to help the majority of Americans.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 1st, 2012
12:13 pm
TallaDawg, Obama had 2 whole years of a nearly filibuster-proof legislature, and didn’t enact ANYTHING worth a damn.
That “Dawg” don’t hunt with the intelligent people out here.
Rafe Hollister- trying to save the Choom Gang
June 1st, 2012
12:16 pm
Prediction, the Keystone Pipeline will soon be found to be feasible after all. Anything to improve those job numbers. Guess Oblamer can then blame the delay in approving it to GWB.
Thinking over Attitude
June 1st, 2012
12:20 pm
“The problem with that tactic is his demonstrated lack of ideas…”
And the Repubs’ great ideas besides no, party always before country and screw the poor/make the rich richer?
Rafe Hollister- trying to save the Choom Gang
June 1st, 2012
12:23 pm
The Dems are so transparent and hypocritical. Now they are bashing Clinton, who two days ago was the best President we ever had. He had the right tax structure, he balanced the budget, he raised taxes, he restored America. Now he is persona non gratis. To treat our first black president and first messiah that way is just not nice.
Where are all those bloggers who kept telling us things were better now, we just had not given credit to Mr. Oblamer. This will be the third summer of recovery, I’m guessing.
Now Conservatives are accused of wanting America to fail, but didn’t the Dems do the exact same thing to GWB. Nancy Pelosi, where are the jobs Mr. President. Hairy the Reed, the war is lost. Worst economy in 50 years, Barack H Oblamer. He betrayed his country, Algore. Turnaround is heck, I guess.
Rafe Hollister- trying to save the Choom Gang
June 1st, 2012
12:28 pm
Talladawg, sure hope your name doesn’t mean you attended UGA.
Oblamer bought off the insurance companies and the drug companies before he launched Oblamercare. Notice none of these big companies came forward and put up a vigorous campaign against his hodgepodge legislation. They got all they could get before the debate began.
iggy
June 1st, 2012
12:29 pm
The libDuhls have any and every excuse for the failures of their glorious leader. And unlike 4 years ago, now everything is sticking to this latest of “Teflon Dons”.
Bobby
June 1st, 2012
12:29 pm
As bad as the news may be, it’s still better than if the Republicans were in control. We would have even few jobs and more people trying to get public assistance just to survive. But the wealthy would still be gaining in their income.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
12:33 pm
What the heck happened?
For the first 10 year of my life a candy bar was $00.25. For the last 36 years they’ve been $.50.
Now they’re a whole buck!? What the hay?
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 1st, 2012
12:34 pm
“As bad as the news may be, it’s still better than if the Republicans were in control. We would have even few jobs and more people trying to get public assistance just to survive.”
Really, Bobby?
What are the Mega-Millions numbers for this weekend, so I know just how good your psychic abilities are . . .
Darwin
June 1st, 2012
12:36 pm
I know I know – smaller government, less taxes and regulation.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
12:36 pm
Granted we libs bi$ched and moaned incessantly about Bush’s policies and actions but we never wanted America to fail just so we could get a Democrat in office.
As can be seen, Obama isn’t that much different from W. Many of the same policies – torture, waging wars we can’t afford, etc.
Hillbilly D
June 1st, 2012
12:37 pm
I’m beginning to think neither candidate really wants to win this election.
Bryan G.
June 1st, 2012
12:38 pm
Also, Obama can’t downplay the role the President plays in the economy since he’s been spending 3 years blaming George Bush for supposedly wrecking it. That would be inconsistent, even for this administration.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
June 1st, 2012
12:38 pm
766K MORE WOMEN UNEMPLOYED TODAY THAN WHEN OBOZO TOOK OFFICE…
Who’s at “war with women?”
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
June 1st, 2012
12:40 pm
“Granted we libs bi$ched and moaned incessantly about Bush’s policies and actions but we never wanted America to fail just so we could get a Democrat in office.”
Because your stinkin’ policies were still in effect, just not making this country worse, Finn.
Obama has proved that the policies of government interference in the markets is a failed policy. At least he’s done SOMETHING good for our future.
Thinking over Attitude
June 1st, 2012
12:41 pm
Bobby 1
Tiberius 0
Good one here from Thomas Friedman for those of you still using your brains and caring about our country, not the us vs. them:
“’Obamacare is socialized medicine,’ says the Republican Party. No, no — excuse me — socialized medicine is what we have now! People without insurance can go to an emergency ward or throw themselves on the mercy of a doctor, and the cost of all this uncompensated care is shared by all those who have insurance, raising your rates and mine. That is socialized medicine and that is what Obamacare ends.”
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
12:44 pm
This is what Tiberius and iggy sing:
“Stand beside her, and guide her…unless there’s a Democrat in office”
These guys are like the Cons that yell “Support the Troops” and then vote in Republicans who want to slash veterans benefits.
But it’s a free country…..we even allow those of the treasonous mentality.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
12:48 pm
Thinking Over Attitude,
The problem is it’s these poor Cons who use that free healthcare and don’t want to have to pay their own way…
iggy
June 1st, 2012
12:48 pm
“That is socialized medicine and that is what Obamacare ends.”
Nope. Buried in Obama care is the collection of fines, for those refusing to obtain HCare. However, while IRS is in charge of the fines, they have no authority to collect.
Just another ObamaCareFarce.
iggy
June 1st, 2012
12:50 pm
“Stand beside her, and guide her…unless there’s a Democrat in office”
LOL…never heard that version before…LOL.
iggy
June 1st, 2012
12:51 pm
I know of zero Cons who use free HCare. We pay our way! I believe you are thinking of the illegal immigunts and the Obama/Dem voters.
Darwin
June 1st, 2012
12:53 pm
Don’t read too much into Clinton’s remarks. The campaign has to walk a fine line in trying to contrast what private equity firms do compared to what the government can do for the economy. It’s not that we liberals hate free enterprise, we’re all for it. We just recognize the fact that we also have anti-trust laws out there to control market monopolies that kill free enterprise. It’s a balancing act for those of you who don’t understand.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
12:54 pm
iggy, that collection of fines is what would make it no longer free health care for the great unwashed conservative masses.
iggy
June 1st, 2012
12:55 pm
Finn, for all his life has enjoyed the “Zero” candy bar as its name reminds him of himself.
iggy
June 1st, 2012
12:56 pm
Read again…the IRS has no authority to collect.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
12:58 pm
the only people i’ve ever known who had to work three jobs at minimum wage with not benefits were staunchly conservative.
yuzeyurbrane
June 1st, 2012
12:59 pm
So what? Assuming, arguendo, that Romney was a sterling businessman, what does making a profit have to do with the enterprise of govt.? I will agree that Clinton’s remarks are not helpful to Obama but that will be a news cycle type hit. More problematical is the economy because whether or not the Republican austerity proposals would lead to economic disaster, the key is public perception in November. And, as Bill Clinton’s slogan once said: “It’s the economy stupid!”
MrLiberty
June 1st, 2012
1:04 pm
Screw the last 12 hours. It has been horrible past 12 years for american freedom and liberty. If it wasn’t for Ron Paul and his followers shining the light on these scoundrels one can only imagine how horrible this country would now be.
Don't Tread
June 1st, 2012
1:05 pm
0bama can’t run on his record, so the only option left is make up some lies about the other side. That works great for the welfare recipients, people who vote based on skin color, and others that make up the Democrat base, but independents with a brain know better.
John Galt
June 1st, 2012
1:09 pm
It’s been a very bad 3 1/2 years for the American worker. And we have not yet seen the impact of Obamacare or Frank-Dodd.
iggy
June 1st, 2012
1:11 pm
“the only people i’ve ever known who had to work three jobs at minimum wage with not benefits were staunchly conservative.”
Thats because the unwashed democratic welfare moms/dads refuse to work. They would rather wait by the mailbox for their ObamaCheck.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
1:16 pm
Don’t Tread,
What lies would that be?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
1:19 pm
When Donald Trump hijacked the news this week with his latest birther ravings and Mitt Romney refused to repudiate him, Bob Inglis could only sigh.
“It really damages our credibility to not deal in facts,” the former South Carolina congressman told Salon. “The fact is the president is an American. The fact is the president is not a socialist. He’s left of center – he’s way left of me. But he’s not a socialist. There’s a difference.”
The prevailing theory is that Romney, who shared the stage with Trump at a fundraiser Tuesday night, bit his tongue for fear of offending a Republican base that contains more than a few voters who are sympathetic to Trump’s views. Inglis knows all about that kind of pressure: He may be the signature victim of the intraparty revolt that has defined the Obama-era Republican Party, a one-time rising star with a deeply conservative voting record who was nonetheless defeated in a 2010 primary – by 42 points.
The Republican party has been hijacked by hateful, fear-mongering, lot who want to see America fail so they can get a guy in office for 4 years. Sad. Really really Sad. Ronnie is rolling over in his grave.
MarkV
June 1st, 2012
1:21 pm
Kyle, not surprisingly , has downplayed Clinton’s judgment that Obama’ record and proposal would be far better from the economy and the American people than what Romney has proposed. Clinton view that Romney has “crossed the qualification threshold” is hardly a great approbation.
iggy
June 1st, 2012
1:21 pm
Finn is dropping propoganda bombs…lol
Rafe Hollister- trying to save the Choom Gang
June 1st, 2012
1:22 pm
Thinking
People without insurance can go to an emergency ward or throw themselves on the mercy of a doctor, and the cost of all this uncompensated care is shared by all those who have insurance, raising your rates and mine.
You guys are so duplicitous. During the debate over Oblamacare, you tried to convince us that the system did not work, that the poor, were dying outside ER’s, going without treatment as no one would treat them, emergency treatment was expensive and we could lower cost by forcing everyone to buy health insurance for the poor.
Now you are saying that all this free treatment they were getting was socialism.
Which lie do you want to stick with?
retiredds
June 1st, 2012
1:23 pm
a bad 12 hours for Obama, followed by a good 12 hours for Obama, followed by a bad 12 hours for Obama, followed by a good 12 hours for Obama, etc., etc., ad nauseum. Sort of like the stock market. Oh, have any conservatives thanked Obama for bringing gas prices down, or do you only blame when they go up? Let the commodity markets rock and roll!!!
iggy
June 1st, 2012
1:26 pm
Many would like to think Obama brought down oil/gas prices. Yet, another ObamaFarce.
Rafe Hollister- trying to save the Choom Gang
June 1st, 2012
1:27 pm
Finn
The Republican party has been hijacked by hateful, fear-mongering, lot who want to see America fail so they can get a guy in office for 4 years. Sad. Really really Sad. Ronnie is rolling over in his grave.
_________________________________________
Not true, but why do you even care if it was? That is why we have two parties. If you are so proud of your party lead them to victory. And who appointed you to speak for Reagan?
DawgDad
June 1st, 2012
1:27 pm
“The problem is it’s these poor Cons who use that free healthcare and don’t want to have to pay their own way”
“iggy, that collection of fines is what would make it no longer free health care for the great unwashed conservative masses.”
What on earth are you talking about??? Cons PAY for their health care, or work for the benefit portion of the cost. Your comments are over-the-top ridiculous.
Rafe Hollister- trying to save the Choom Gang
June 1st, 2012
1:31 pm
retiredds
@@ posted a study the other day that noted that historically falling gasoline prices indicated we are entering a recessionary period. So, since his policies are failing the economy and it is turning down, maybe he is responsible for the fall in gasoline prices.
unvrknow
June 1st, 2012
1:32 pm
First, Wingfield’s piece is insightful and balanced; hello media world, can we see more stuff like this?
Balanced, fair (oops, sorry Fox) and well documented shouldn’t be so hard to achieve.
Obama IS in trouble, and he knows it, because even though he’s a raging socialist (could be the impact of that ‘blow’ and ‘weed’ from his youth) he is not dumb.
Thanks, Kyle, and keep up the good work.
Thinking over Attitude
June 1st, 2012
1:44 pm
Don’t Tread,
I am an independent with a brain and I think Obama is the clear choice. Where are the ideas from my former party? Besides the Repub policies that led us to this deficit explosion (two wars + tax cuts + unfunded mandates — AWESOME!) and unregulated Wall Street mess.
I admit Obama’s campaign has to do a better job of getting the message out there, but he has plenty of achievements:
- saved auto industry and got huge fuel efficiency concession
- healthcare law
- 22 or 23 of top 30 Al Qaeda murderers, incl. Bin Laden, have been sent to Hades
- got us out of Iraq
- economy has gone from “oh sh*t, the sky is falling!” in late ‘08 to reasonable hope of recovery
- credit card bill of rights, stem cell research funding, new START treaty, etc.
P.S. I will apologize to everybody here for voting for Dumb & Dumber Dubya the first time. What was I thinking!?!
Getterson Vitterick
June 1st, 2012
1:44 pm
ZOMG, A LACKLUSTER 69,0000 JOBS PRODUCED LAST MONTH AND THAT’S IT. THAT’S ALL?
td
June 1st, 2012
1:48 pm
yuzeyurbrane
June 1st, 2012
12:59 pm
You are wrong my friend. Clinton and the other Dems that have said Bain did a great job will be made into a 30 second commercial and Rove and the other superpacs will buy $100 or $200 million in commercial time in those 11 or so states for the entire month of October. It will give all those rural white blue collar workers in Penn, Ohio, Wis Mich, that held their nose to vote for Obama in 08, to go and vote for Romney this time around.
Dusty
June 1st, 2012
1:48 pm
Ah poor libs….they fizzle and dizzle while the Big Dem burns!
It is so bad that even Clinton has told the truth in part. Romney is a good business man ! Thank you, Mr. Clinton, but we already knew that. He’s also experienced in governance.
And again, poor libs! They are so afraid that austerity might hit them. Greece is just something in the frying pan. They want their goodies or they are going to cry!
I really don’t like bad news. I only wish for good news. But, if the bad connects to President Obama, as it does, then I look forward to a change in Washington and the White House. We need a new leader!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
1:50 pm
Wow, I got my windows rolled up just in time….
southpaw
June 1st, 2012
1:52 pm
Finn, iggy – do both of you need a timeout?
Finn@1:16 – For starters, how about the “vulture capitalist” at the helm of Bain Capital? He’s had some failures, but also several successes. http://www.deseretnews.com/top/393/10/American-Pad-and-Paper-Mitt-Romneys-Bain-History–A-Sampling.html#/top/393/1/Staples-Mitt-Romneys-Bain-History-A-Sampling.html
MarkV
June 1st, 2012
1:54 pm
Gist of the interview with Clinton:
Romney’s business claims will play for some people who relate well to businessmen.
Romney’s business work was good. He has crossed the qualification record for presidency
The real issue for the election is what has Romney has advocated and what he proposes to do, and what has Obama done and proposes to do.
Obama’s record and proposal are much better for the economy and American people than Romney’s.
Only in Kyle world is that a bad day for Obama.
td
June 1st, 2012
1:59 pm
MarkV
June 1st, 2012
1:54 pm
It is a bad day for Obama because his planned attack on Bain as being vulture capitalist and evil is now not going to work. If Obama starts it then all Romney is going to have to do is put up commercials with Clinton and other Dems saying Bain did a great job.
ragnar danneskjold
June 1st, 2012
2:04 pm
Well-organized argument – my only reaction is bemused schadenfreude.
Hillbilly D
June 1st, 2012
2:04 pm
Wow, I got my windows rolled up just in time….
There’s a saying that’s soon going to be gone, since most vehicles have power windows now. Future kids won’t even know what it means. lol
iggy
June 1st, 2012
2:04 pm
Obama fancies himself the Kim Jung Ill of the USA.
MarkV
June 1st, 2012
2:06 pm
td @1:59 pm
If Romney is going to put up commercials with Clinton and other Dems, then all that Obama will do is put out Gingrich’s and Perry’s attack on Bain as vulture capitalist.
Tiberius - Banned by Bookman and proud of it!
June 1st, 2012
2:09 pm
MatyV, if only Kyle’s article was only on the Clinton interview, you might have made the first accurate post of your blogging career. Alas, you had to screw it up by parsing.
Complete and utter failure on your part.
davetv
June 1st, 2012
2:09 pm
Attitude over Thinking
If you had a critical mind and where able to look at the true effects of the things on your list that Obama has “accomplished”, you would see that everything on your list is either unconstitutional, failed miserably, or is total hyperbole. It’s a waste of time to explain the realty of each item to you and your ilk because you refuse to face the truth. Sad that so many people on this blog post their opinion and their hope, yet label it as fact. When others try to enlighten you with actual facts and critical thought, you folks ignore the dose of reality and move on to your next lie on your list.
md
June 1st, 2012
2:10 pm
Finn….you still don’t get it (and may never)….how does that consumer with a dollar in his pocket get more dollars to spend??
He goes to work…….at a company that first had to take a chance/risk with capital to employ that person……only then does that individual have the capacity to consume….and he will only consume what is made available to consume.
Without that initial capital outlay, we have an entire society roaming around without the means to consume……
td
June 1st, 2012
2:10 pm
MarkV
June 1st, 2012
2:06 pm
Yes, and that lib media will take the side of Clinton over Newt every time when they do their analysis of the truth meter.
redneckbluedog
June 1st, 2012
2:11 pm
Don’t get me wrong….69,000 jobs is UNACCEPTABLE…!!!! My mamaw can create more jobs than that without trying….Just canning green beans and pickle beets….Still better than Bush….but surely to goodness we can do better…!!!!!!!
All I’m saying is….don’t expect to much from the cultist, either…..He’s no Reagan…He was a one-term governor for a reason…..but it would be hard to do much worse..!!!
md
June 1st, 2012
2:13 pm
“Assuming, arguendo, that Romney was a sterling businessman, what does making a profit have to do with the enterprise of govt.?”
Well, now that you ask……you are aware that it takes lots of profit in the private sector to run the private sector AND the public sector……aren’t you?
td
June 1st, 2012
2:18 pm
More bad news for Obama.
“(CNSNews.com) – The number of American women who are unemployed was 766,000 individuals greater in May 2012 than in January 2009, when President Barack Obama took office, according to data released today by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.”
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/766000-more-women-unemployed-today-when-obama-took-office
The real war on women.
the cat
June 1st, 2012
2:19 pm
Grasshopper et al-you proud of your bully Romney and his hired hecklers? Getting close to desperation time and the election is a long summer and fall off.
MarkV
June 1st, 2012
2:21 pm
td @2:10 pm: “Yes, and that lib media will take the side of Clinton over Newt every time when they do their analysis of the truth meter.”
Don’t bet on it.
MarkV
June 1st, 2012
2:23 pm
td @2:18 pm: “More bad news for Obama”
Explained and debunked as argument a long time ago.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
2:24 pm
how does that consumer with a dollar in his pocket get more dollars to spend??
No, I get it md, you are cornfused.
For most of us he runs or works at a company that provides goods or services that consumers demand. If he works for a company that can’t meet consumer demand, then he is probably going to be out of a job real soon.
It doesn’t matter how many extra dollars of capital you throw at a company, if it’s not producing products in demand, it won’t last. You can brag that you have a warehouse full of buggy whips. That’s real cool. But the economy around your buggy whip enterprise isn’t going to continue without consumers is it?
davetv
June 1st, 2012
2:25 pm
How to boost job growth? Oust Obama in November. I predict December will have the highest job growth in years. It will be amazing to see the growth that will happen when the President is not daily demonizing your for being rich, burying you in regulations, threatening to tax you to death, and fining you for not providing his health care plan. Business is holding it’s collective breath.
iggy
June 1st, 2012
2:28 pm
“It doesn’t matter how many extra dollars of capital you throw at a company, if it’s not producing products in demand, it won’t last.”
Very good!! Kinda like Solyndra.
Things that make you say...HMMMM!
June 1st, 2012
2:35 pm
Does anyone else think all this disention is just a little too easy and convenient? I’m starting to think there is a HUGE October surprise and everyone is being lulled in!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
2:36 pm
The Con’s savior has to pay hecklers?
LOL. sad.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
2:38 pm
I predict December will have the highest job growth in years.
Dreaming out loud again? You going to share those drugs?
md
June 1st, 2012
2:39 pm
“For most of us he runs or works at a company that provides goods or services that consumers demand. If he works for a company that can’t meet consumer demand, then he is probably going to be out of a job real soon.
It doesn’t matter how many extra dollars of capital you throw at a company, if it’s not producing products in demand, it won’t last. You can brag that you have a warehouse full of buggy whips. That’s real cool. But the economy around your buggy whip enterprise isn’t going to continue without consumers is it?”
Didn’t think you’d get it…..just like the students and their grades…..
One last time Finn……and where do those jobs come from Finn?……where is the beginning of the process?
I have an entire country of unemployed people Finn……where do they go to work and how does that place of employment get started??
Dusty
June 1st, 2012
2:40 pm
hmmmmm…..I was thinking about that job growth in the USA of 69,000, which was just reported..
Now divide 69,000 jobs by 50 (states) and you get 1389/state.
Georgia has 159 counties. So divide the state’s 1389 jobs by 159 and you get about 9 jobs/county!
Wow, an average of nine jobs per county in Georgia at this time.
As Kyle said, “a very bad 12 hours”. for Obama ( and Georgia and the rest of the USA)..
Hillbilly D
June 1st, 2012
2:41 pm
I’m starting to think there is a HUGE October surprise and everyone is being lulled in!
Every election from Carter/Reagan forward, there have been warnings of an October Surprise. If there is one this year, it’ll be the first one.
Thinking over Attitude
June 1st, 2012
2:42 pm
Nice attitude, daveTV. Be careful about judging or casting accusations at people you don’t know. Otherwise, thanks for the laugh.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
2:46 pm
how does that place of employment get started??
demand.plain.and.simple.
money…follows…demand
md
June 1st, 2012
2:47 pm
“saved auto industry and got huge fuel efficiency concession”
Actually, saved the uaw and screwed bondholders…….some of which were retired uaw.
“healthcare law”
Which may very likely be stricken down, which would be a good thing as the system run by the insurance companies is already screwed up…..costs are too high because nobody including the doctors have any frigggin idea what anything actually costs……..just read your eob’s, if you can.
DAVETV
June 1st, 2012
2:48 pm
Finn – Dreaming out loud again? You going to share those drugs?
As I clearly stated- that is my prediction and I base it on the reason listed thereafter.
This is opposed to your dreams (which you label as facts) with nothing to back it up.
The ones who are on drugs must be the ones who believe Obama is not responsible for any of our Countries woes, and believe that giving him 4 more years to blame Bush and the Republicans and the rich will somehow make things better.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 1st, 2012
2:49 pm
A very bad 4 years for America, freedom, and capitalism.
End the stupidity. Vote Republican.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
2:49 pm
According to md, the very first oil change shop was started before the car was even invented. The capitalist sensed a deep seated need in the American people to provide lubrication for machinery. Not knowing what machinery that might be, he nonetheless convinced a banker to assist him with cash in his venture to meet this, as of yet unknown, need.
That deep deep sense of need for mechanical lubrication is what got Henry Ford to build the first automobile.
Simply amazing!
md
June 1st, 2012
2:49 pm
“got us out of Iraq”
Actually pre-negotiated and agreed to by one GWB
“credit card bill of rights”
Yes, we are all so very thankful for our higher rates…..the deadbeats we are now all paying for appreciate the “fairness”.
md
June 1st, 2012
2:50 pm
“demand.plain.and.simple.
money…follows…demand”
Demand with what?? I can demand a yacht…..but I first have to have the money for it…..where do I go get that money Finn?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
2:52 pm
davetv,
If there is a huge November surge in consumer demand and the inevitable hiring that follows that demand, it won’t be because the White House resident changed.
In fact, if there is a huge surge in hiring in November, it will be because the economy is doing much better in September and October.
And that is something we know you cons don’t want to see happen.
md
June 1st, 2012
2:53 pm
Sorry Finn…it is you that has the cart in front of the horse……again, where does the process start…..since I’m so confused, explain it to me…..from the beginning.
Dusty
June 1st, 2012
2:54 pm
MarkV
Are you trying to say that all this bad news is really good news and the country is doing exceedingly well under President Obama?
I congratulate you on your fine imagination but your reality is somewhat lacking.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
2:56 pm
keep setting them up md, i’ll keep knocking them down.
DAVETV
June 1st, 2012
2:56 pm
how does that place of employment get started?? demand.plain.and.simple.
Plus a huge influx of capital. Prove there is enough demand and private funds can be found for financing. The return on that investment is the peach.
Planning to build a solar panel that no one wants? Plus, It costs more to build it than you can already buy the finished product. That is why no private equity would touch it, only the Obama administration would back this failed business plan using our tax dollars.
Jefferson
June 1st, 2012
2:57 pm
Not really, you look more foolish than him with see through petty hate stories. Now there.
md
June 1st, 2012
2:58 pm
“keep setting them up md, i’ll keep knocking them down.”
OK….I’m waiting with baited breath……
Old timer
June 1st, 2012
3:00 pm
Add to Romney’s experience……an Olympic Games in Utah…not in debt. This has not recentl y been done.
Jefferson
June 1st, 2012
3:00 pm
If the president is reelected then you folks will just say America is dumb and you are not.
Dusty
June 1st, 2012
3:00 pm
Finn,
A huge surge in jobs and demand in November? But, of course.
Christmas shopping starts then big time and some people will spend every dime they have.
You never heard of the After Thanksgiving sales? November!
md
June 1st, 2012
3:02 pm
“If the president is reelected then you folks will just say America is dumb and you are not.”
No, I will say America is in trouble…….I bet the Greeks thought they could just keep spending their way out of their hole too………
DAVETV
June 1st, 2012
3:03 pm
Attitude vs. Thinking
MD was kind enough to debunk your list of Obama accomplishments. Nothing but crickets from your end.
Your only response to me was to warn me about judging others.
I guess you become befuddled when questioned. Sorry about that.
Don Abernethy
June 1st, 2012
3:03 pm
NOBAMA
the cat
June 1st, 2012
3:04 pm
Old timer
June 1st, 2012
3:00 pm
Add to Romney’s experience……an Olympic Games in Utah…not in debt. This has not recentl y been done.
The Federal Govenment had to throw millions at the Games to keep them going. Not in debt? Yeah right.
md
June 1st, 2012
3:04 pm
“Plus a huge influx of capital.”
Gee Davetv, don’t pop the guys bubble…..knowing the capital fairy doesn’t exist may decimate the fella……..
Hillbilly D
June 1st, 2012
3:04 pm
A man I used to know who was pretty well off, said his Daddy told him, “You don’t go into business, you grow into business”. I always thought that was pretty sound advice.
I also remember he said his secret was “buying on credit and selling for cash”.
DAVETV
June 1st, 2012
3:08 pm
md- I fear that nothing can pop these folks’ bubbles. The sharp dart of reality has shown no effect.
md
June 1st, 2012
3:09 pm
Too bad some don’t understand that even the kid cutting grass must infuse his little company with enough capital to buy a lawn mower, gas, and oil……..probably from saved up allowance (or a sugar mommy)
md
June 1st, 2012
3:11 pm
“md- I fear that nothing can pop these folks’ bubbles. The sharp dart of reality has shown no effect.”
I used to be the same back in my younger days…..as a registered democrat, I had all the answers…..until I realized how wrong I was. But I still liked the idea of voting for the neighbor to pay more taxes.
DAVETV
June 1st, 2012
3:12 pm
no, if the grass gets tall enough, the high demand for lawnmowers will create them out of thin air. Either that or guvment will step in and buy green mowers for $10K per.
Still waiting for Finn to knock one down. Just one. Any one.
Grasshopper
June 1st, 2012
3:13 pm
” “saved auto industry and got huge fuel efficiency concession”
Actually, saved the uaw and screwed bondholders…….some of which were retired uaw. ”
Don’t forget all of those dealerships that Dear Leader Obama and his minions forced to close as a part of the auto ‘bailout.’
Let’s see…to save an industry, Obama closes a large percentage of the retailers in said industry, sc**ws the bondholders, changes the business model, makes sure that the unions are paid off and – voila! – we have a ’saved’ industry.
Obamanomics!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
3:14 pm
yeah, the kid has to buy a mower, buy gas, etc……unless there are no lawns to mow.
If gas didn’t grow there wouldn’t be demand for grass cutting.
If there is grass that is growing that is not getting cut, someone will spend the capital to get that job to cut that grass.
All based on demand…..
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
3:18 pm
Likewise, the Ipad was started by Apple to meet a demand that pre-existed the very thought of an Ipad. That demand was for a computing device. Computers had been around for 30 years.
BEFORE they threw money at creating that decide they did market research to make sure there would be enough demand to make the venture worthwhile. THEN they threw the necessary capital at it.
DAVETV
June 1st, 2012
3:18 pm
The problem starts when the number of neighbors paying taxes are less than the ones voting for the tax increases.
I don’t claim to be always right (correct) but I base my ideas on facts and common sense. I read the lefts (in-correct?) opinion because I want to understand why they believe the way they do. Perhaps something they say will open my mind to another way of looking at things. I can’t change my mind based on hope and desire, nor on hyperbole and distortion of facts. Oh well.
Mike
June 1st, 2012
3:18 pm
What’s really scary is the number of misinformed people who will be allowed to vote. Taking the scam known as Fox News and accepting it as fact will lead this country to ruination.
MarkV
June 1st, 2012
3:19 pm
Dusty @ 2:40 pm: “As Kyle said, “a very bad 12 hours”. for Obama ( and Georgia and the rest of the USA).”
Which shows, what is more important to some people – how bad are news for Obama, and only then what it means for the country.
Dusty @2:54: ”Are you trying to say that all this bad news is really good news and the country is doing exceedingly well under President Obama? “
I congratulate you on your fine imagination. Please show me where I said that. Then we will se whose reality is lacking.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 1st, 2012
3:19 pm
Demand, plain and simple?
Could be. There are a lot of folks holding on to their cash just riding out the Obozo administration. Elect an American and watch the pent-up demand for big ticket items skyrocket.
Thinking over Attitude
June 1st, 2012
3:21 pm
Oh, (suddenly all-capped) DAVETV, we’re not on the playground where the zinger that gets the most “ooh” reaction wins. We can debate like adults.
BTW, md didn’t debunk anything, in my opinion. It’s just clear we don’t agree.
And, yes, the jury is still out on the healthcare law. But we should be able to agree that our healthcare system is broken. Kudos to Obama and Romney for trying to do something about it.
Tiberius - Banned by Bookman and proud of it!
June 1st, 2012
3:22 pm
Finn, please stop trying to show your ignorance about the economy by trying to make something so complex as being one simple concept. You are in way over your head here.
DAVETV
June 1st, 2012
3:22 pm
“saved auto industry and got huge fuel efficiency concession”
Huge fuel efficiency concessions also caused the cost to manufacture and purchase a car increase.
Fuel efficiency is pretty low on the priority list when you don’t have a job to drive to.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 1st, 2012
3:25 pm
If folks wanted high mileage there would be no need for “concessions”.
Plain and simple.
Kyle Wingfield
June 1st, 2012
3:27 pm
Finn @ 3:18: Of course a company doesn’t just create a product and hope someone will buy it without doing market research beforehand — that’s not what Say’s Law says. At all. It is talking about aggregates. Clearly, you didn’t read the information I linked and don’t really have an understanding of the idea you’re attacking.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
3:27 pm
Tiberius was schooled in the earlier blog. Now looking to make the teacher go away.
The Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers
June 1st, 2012
3:28 pm
Kinda funny, the libs think that a half a$$ senator that has lived his life in academia and probably never held a secular job, would be the best choice to create jobs. Where’s his “Job Czar” buddy? Wasn’t he appointed to help create jobs??
Kyle Wingfield
June 1st, 2012
3:29 pm
For a more concise description of Say’s Law, see here.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
3:29 pm
kyle,
I didn’t see a link…
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
3:30 pm
ah, there it is
Jefferson
June 1st, 2012
3:31 pm
The country will be back to where it was in 2008 if Romney wins quickly as he will do the things that causes problems, plan accordingly and you will be fine. What’s funny is the GOP don’t really want him an GA wanted Newt.
Kyle Wingfield
June 1st, 2012
3:33 pm
My bad, Finn, I thought I included a link in my very first comment about Say’s Law. The one I inserted a few minutes ago is better anyway.
DAVETV
June 1st, 2012
3:34 pm
Fresh Prince – Obama (Sotoro) held a secular job. He worked in an ice cream shop as a kid in Hawaii… years before he received his Connecticut Social Security card.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
3:35 pm
kyle, the way you initially posted Say’s Law is exactly how i read it. Just liek this guy describes:
Say’s Law is frequently understood as supply creates its own demand, as if the simple act of supplying some good or service on the market was sufficient to call forth demand for that product…. If Say’s Law were true in this colloquial sense, then we could all get very rich just by producing whatever we wanted.
Grasshopper
June 1st, 2012
3:36 pm
“Where’s his “Job Czar” buddy? Wasn’t he appointed to help create jobs??”
He’s busy carving a sacred marble bust of Dear Leader for placement in Red Square.
md
June 1st, 2012
3:37 pm
“BTW, md didn’t debunk anything, in my opinion. It’s just clear we don’t agree.”
I don’t know why one wouldn’t want to agree on the basic facts…..it’s why they are called ‘facts”.
GWB negotiated and signed the withdrawal agreement for iraq…..it isn’t hard to find if one wanted to find it.
Same with the bondholders…..same with hc……same with credit card bill.
Hillbilly D
June 1st, 2012
3:38 pm
I’m no economist but my view on Say’s law is somewhere in the middle. In many cases, demand comes first and then it’s met with supply. In other cases, (think tennis shoes that cost hundreds of dollars, some electronic gadgets, etc), the supplier creates their own demand through advertising, which in many cases is just convincing people they can’t live without something that they don’t need.
md
June 1st, 2012
3:39 pm
Yet Finn absolutely refuses to explain how the process starts……but is darn good at deflection.
I’ll give you a gold star for deflection, but you get a pile of dookey in your stocking for the capital fairy…….
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
3:40 pm
GWB negotiated and signed the withdrawal agreement for iraq…..it isn’t hard to find if one wanted to find it
And that wasn’t the intial statement. The initial statement was that he ended the war. BO pushed the button that ended it.
md is wanting to give credit to W for putting the button in place for BO to push. md could also argue that there wouldn’t have been any war for Obama to stop if it wasn’t for the benevolent W who started it int he first place.
Rafe Hollister- trying to save the Choom Gang
June 1st, 2012
3:43 pm
Don’t know who the job czar was nor does any American care. We know Rattner was the car czar and he has turned on Oblamer, for disparaging private equity firms. We know who the green energy czar was, Van Jones, the Communist, who disappeared along with the green energy jobs.
The next czar he needs to create is the Blame czar. It is getting unseemly after 3.5 years for Oblamer to have to continue to do all the blaming by himself. Of course, the VP, tries to do his share of blaming. This results in a new czar need, a Biden Mop up Czar, to follow ole Joe around and pull his foot out of his mouth occasionally.
Kyle Wingfield
June 1st, 2012
3:43 pm
Finn: Don’t know who “this guy” is, but he misunderstands as well. We are talking about aggregates.
So, of course, you can’t just produce any old good or service and expect to get rich. But, broadly speaking, wealth comes from production, not consumption.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
3:43 pm
Ok, let’s go all biblical since you folks can often understand stuff in those terms.
Let’s look at eve and the apple. Eve didn’t bite from the apple because it was there, and pretty, and shiny. She bit into it because she was hungry (she had demand for it). If there was no apple she would still be hungry and in demand of nourishment.
Hillbilly D
June 1st, 2012
3:47 pm
But, broadly speaking, wealth comes from production, not consumption.
That was pretty much the basis of our economy in the 50’s and 60’s. As we’ve gotten away from that, we’ve seen the drop in real wages. A bushel basket full of factors played into that, but that’s the short version.
Hillbilly D
June 1st, 2012
3:48 pm
The Bible doesn’t ever mention an apple, in respect to Eve.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
3:48 pm
wealth comes from production, not consumption.
I can agree with that. I’m not arguing against that. What i am trying to say is that if consumption stops, the wealth that went into production for that item will be shifted elsewhere; over to another product or industry where it can again be used to meet demand.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
3:48 pm
that guy was one of the links at the bottom of your Say’s Law link.
Rafe Hollister- trying to save the Choom Gang
June 1st, 2012
3:49 pm
The country will be back to where it was in 2008 if Romney wins quickly
Jefferson, I hope and pray that he does. America needs that 6% unemployment, a debt of only 9 T, a thriving economy, a booming stock market, and a pride in our country.
Kyle Wingfield
June 1st, 2012
3:50 pm
Finn: If you want to “go all biblical” so that people can “understand stuff in those terms,” you might want to review your understanding of the Bible.
From Genesis 3:6: “When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it.”
“Good for food” is not a reference to her hunger, but to her earlier (incorrect) statement that the fruit would kill her if she ate or touched it. There is no reference to hunger anywhere in this passage. In fact, the idea to eat the fruit — demand, I suppose you might say — came from the serpent who suggested she eat it — supply.
So, although I’m not sure this story really tells us anything about economics, to the degree it does, you have it exactly backwards.
DAVETV
June 1st, 2012
3:50 pm
Finn might want to read the Bible before using it as an analogy. Eve was not hungry. The Garden of Eden was full of everything she could possibly need. She was welcome to anything and everything EXCEPT the fruit from that one tree.
Kyle Wingfield
June 1st, 2012
3:51 pm
Finn @ 3:48: Like I said, you needed to understand the theory before you chose to disagree with it. Say was not talking about the merits of individual goods or services.
DAVETV
June 1st, 2012
3:51 pm
Oops- darn that refresh rate.
td
June 1st, 2012
3:55 pm
md
June 1st, 2012
3:37 pm
Some people will refuse to see the truth even if you slap them in the face with it. The truth may make someone examine their belief system and there ego refuses to allow them think they may be wrong.
Rafe Hollister- trying to save the Choom Gang
June 1st, 2012
3:57 pm
Eve was kinda like the entitlement generation we have created, no matter how much you give them, they always want one more thing.
Entitlements do not work, Eve proved it long ago.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
June 1st, 2012
4:01 pm
ok, my Eve was a bad analogy.
Dusty
June 1st, 2012
4:14 pm
MarkV
As usual, you run in circles.
I said that I thought that the news was bad for Obama, the country and Georgia. Since Obama is the president, don’t you think it is logical to include him?.
Then I ask YOU a question and you replied by saying you did not say that. Please! I said it. It was a question for you.
Now what. Am I not to mention the president’s name? I AM against Obama’s policies because they are unsuccessful. I think we need a new president. Pronto!
md
June 1st, 2012
4:18 pm
“And that wasn’t the intial statement. The initial statement was that he ended the war. BO pushed the button that ended it.”
No, BO adhered to the agreement already in place……….no different than any other international agreements we have in place….such as NATO.
Dusty
June 1st, 2012
4:32 pm
md,
LIberals are still trying to get Iraq straight in their minds. Iraq was bad as long as Bush was in charge and finished it. But now it is CREDIT to Obama because he signed a paper after the final paper.
Speaking of Bush, I am sorry to see that Jeb is distancing himself from politics. There’s an honest, intelligent, experienced man with a good record. But I don’t think he feels like “running the gauntlet” again with liberals.
Who can blame him? It was a fanatical inquisition of his brother George (whom Obama is following in his footsteps in many cases.)
No wonder Washington does not get the “stars” anymore. They don’t enjoy being treated like criminals.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 1st, 2012
4:41 pm
Our President Bush will have to be content with freeing 50 million people and planting a big old’ democracy smack in the Middle East. Ain’t gonna be no libtarded Nobel Peace Prize for actually accomplishing something.
duke
June 1st, 2012
4:42 pm
All of you miss the point. Obama and his hard-left advisers are destroying the economy deliberately, in order to prove that capitalism does not work. Bill Clinton was never that far to the Left. But Obama’s parents and his maternal grandparents were Marxists. His closest friends, advisors, and mentors have all been Marxists. His pastor in Chicago, Jeremiah Wright, preached Black Liberation Theology, which is Marxist ideology expressed in Christian terminology, with a nasty racist twist. Obama has never even been exposed to any other viewpoint. The mainstream media completely abdicated their responsibility to vet this President during his candidacy, and they ruthlessly demonize anyone in the alternative media who does the job they should be doing.
MarkV
June 1st, 2012
4:47 pm
Dusty @4:14 pm
“I said that I thought that the news was bad for Obama, the country and Georgia. Since Obama is the president, don’t you think it is logical to include him?”
I did not protest including Obama. I referred to your order of words: “a very bad 12 hours”. for Obama ( and Georgia and the rest of the USA).
“Then I ask YOU a question and you replied by saying you did not say that. Please! I said it. It was a question for you.”
Dusty @2:54: ”Are you trying to say that all this bad news is really good news and the country is doing exceedingly well under President Obama? “
Don’t play coy, Dusty. You intimated (“Are you trying to say….?”) that I had said something about the country doing exceedingly well under President Obama. I did not. As a matter of fact, had you read my post on May 30th, 2012 @2:55 pm, you would have seen that I wrote there that in my view the situation was at least as bad as Kyle wrote about, if not worse. However, if you start writing about “under President Obama,” I will start writing about what happened “under President Bush.”
MarkV
June 1st, 2012
4:53 pm
Some people have a real bee in their bonnet about Marxism and Marxists.
md
June 1st, 2012
4:53 pm
Here Finn (and Attitude), educate yourselves:
“On 16 November 2008, Iraq’s Cabinet approved the agreement, which cited the end of 2009 for the pull out of US troops from Iraqi cities, and 2011 as the fixed deadline for removal of US military presence in country.”
“On November 17, 2008, the Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshiyar Zebari and U.S. ambassador Ryan Crocker signed the agreement in an official ceremony.”
In case one wasn’t aware, BO was sworn in in Jan of 2009…………..
Tiberius - Banned by Bookman and proud of it!
June 1st, 2012
4:56 pm
Dont confuse the libs with facts, md.
It’ll make their poor empty heads explode.
John Birch
June 1st, 2012
4:59 pm
Bush’s own words early on when asked how the surplus had turned into such a deficit in so short a time said something like, “we had a recession, we were attacked, adn we are at war.” All pretty true but he neglected to mention that in the face of all that he gave the largest tax cut ever, primarily to the already rich amd got the more-cost-than-benefits Medicare “”D in place.
Obama said his stimulus bill would keep unemployment below 8% instead it’s been nothing but over 8%, backed down on his pledge to reverse the Bush tax cuts for the rich, and handed out a vote-buying 2% reduction is SS when the future of SS was already seriously underfunded.
Might as well try mittens, how much worse can he be?
saywhat?
June 1st, 2012
5:32 pm
md’s point re: capital and Kyles contribution re: Says law is moot in relation to the current US economy, because there is no shortage of capital. The top 1% are rolling in capital. That they have chosen to hoard it, offshore it, or play non-productive finacial bingo with it does nothing to create jobs or boost the economy. More tax cuts for the rich will produce more capital as md and kyle assert, but it will be just more unproductive capital.
What the economy needs now is consumer demand so that those with capital have something productive to do with it.To increase consumer demand you have to raise wages, rewarding the average American for their decades increased productivity, rather than skimming that money off the top and redistributing it to the 1%.
GT
June 1st, 2012
5:50 pm
Some of Obama is that his opponent is not that good as much as Obama is better. It is like winning the US Open because no other tennis player entered the tournament. Now the Republicans keep trying to make the opponent look like a champ but the truth is the man is slow on his feet and is letting other fight his fight, play his match. When they are in a debate and the subjects are not paid for by a superpac and the bullets are real, I predict you will see the very unsmooth Romney return.
Dusty
June 1st, 2012
5:54 pm
MarkV 4:47
I love being coy! ‘Tis better than being deaf, dull and dim!
You, dear MarkV, have shown your great admiration for President Obama many times. No need to back off now. That fact has already been established.
In the status quo of citizens, I would say that we are “serving ” under President Obama. We certainly are not dancing & singing!! You have no need to talk about “serving” under President Bush. The liberals before you have already beat that one to death with venom but without veracity. Where were you when the fires were burning? Studying Marxism, facism, socialism and Progressives?
RAMZAD
June 1st, 2012
6:06 pm
I refuse to be cowed by Right Wing propagandists like Wingfield. We almost had a depression in 2008. Republican frauds took us there. It was on their watch, their policies, their leadership, their lies about yellow cake uranium, their lack of leadership in the financial sector and we almost fell off a cliff. Some would say we did fall off a cliff. Things have improved. It is still rough going. It is getting better. Obama is doing a great job, and I am going to support him; racists and jackasses be damned.
MarkV
June 1st, 2012
6:08 pm
Dusty @5:54 pm
“You, dear MarkV, have shown your great admiration for President Obama many times. No need to back off now. That fact has already been established.”
Where have I backed off?
“Where were you when the fires were burning? Studying Marxism, facism, socialism and Progressives?”
You should not disparage studying.
“In the status quo of citizens, I would say that we are “serving ” under President Obama. “
Wrong. President Obama is serving in accord with the Constitution.
Thinking over Attitude
June 1st, 2012
6:08 pm
md,
Does this get the “facts” right?
- Obama pledges as a presidential candidate to bring our troops home from Iraq
- Dubya signs the pact as a lameduck (trying to save some face while dodging two shoes)
- Obama brings the troops home
As for your other responses, citing that some segment disagrees with a big policy decision or doesn’t find favor with a new law doesn’t mean it’s not an achievement. Presidential leadership is about standing up for the greater good.
Have a good weekend and God Bless America!
md
June 1st, 2012
6:36 pm
“To increase consumer demand you have to raise wages, rewarding the average American for their decades increased productivity, rather than skimming that money off the top and redistributing it to the 1%.”
That 1% cunard is a voodoo talking point……we ship biggey bucks overseas to regular Janes and Joes….THAT is where the money goes:
http://www.epi.org/publication/webfeatures_snapshots_archive_02282001/
One may notice that “our” wages starting stagnating when “we” (those dastardly consumers) decided to consume many many goods from other countries (amvet’s Infiniti included)…….
In short, we did it to ourselves…….but those folks that have been lifted out of poverty around the globe are surely grateful……….
md
June 1st, 2012
6:41 pm
“Obama pledges as a presidential candidate to bring our troops home from Iraq”
Well….since Bush had already made the agreement, Obama may as well have been saying he promised the sun will come up in the East……
“Dubya signs the pact”
Yes he did……..there’s the “fact” part.
“Obama brings the troops home”
You mean he honored the agreement? Good for him……..
“As for your other responses, citing that some segment disagrees with a big policy decision or doesn’t find favor with a new law doesn’t mean it’s not an achievement. Presidential leadership is about standing up for the greater good.”
Can you tell me how many responsible credit card holders find favor with paying for the deadbeats?? I’m curious as to how many idiots there really are.
And of course the deadbeats are thrilled…………..
davetv
June 1st, 2012
6:50 pm
MD – there you go again… basing your opinion on the truth and then having the audacity to back it up with the facts.
Circumventing the U.S. Constitution is now a “big policy decision”? I have a real problem with Libs determining the “Greater Good”
Dusty
June 1st, 2012
7:10 pm
Dear Man of Semantics known as MarkV
You agreed that the economy was not doing well. (Obama fails!)
I did not disparage study as I have done quite a bit myself. (but not m, f, s, & p)
President Obama is president of our country and we are its citizens. We all serve together, with, under, around, up & down!
Now go battle windmills, Don Mark Quixote. I hope you win..
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
June 1st, 2012
7:13 pm
We almost had a depression in 2008.
———-
Yeah, it was so horrible that it took until June 2009 to end the recession.
Yawn.
Just saying..
June 1st, 2012
10:36 pm
Kyle: “I like Bill Clinton’s interview remarks except for the ones I don’t”.
kelly
June 3rd, 2012
2:36 pm
“Two years of a nearly filibuster-proof majority”…what a silly statement. Makes about as much sense as being almost pregnant. The rules of the game are clear. Take this President down by all means necessary, including deliberately tanking the economy. I wonder how you unemployed republicans feel about that. Your party is doing this to you too.
Vladimir Ilyich Lenin
June 5th, 2012
11:45 am
Another bad 12 hours for the Schwartzenfuehrer is on its way when the Wisconsin recall results are announced!!!