T-SPLOST backers identify future transit users
I was reading through the Untie Atlanta pro-T-SPLOST website yesterday for the umpteenth time, when I noticed this in the “Myths and Facts” section of the “Crisis” page:
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Read that again, with an added emphasis on certain words: “Building transit has the potential of taking the cars in front of you off the road.”
Hmmm.
I could’ve sworn I’d read something like this before…
Oh, yes. This was it:
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And in which publication did that headline appear?
– By Kyle Wingfield
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86 comments Add your comment
md
May 30th, 2012
10:45 am
“That’s a complete, sad joke. Put in a dedicated bus lane on I-75; works the same.”
I don’t quite grasp that logic…….a dedicated bus lane would require huge funds to build or cause further congestion by taking away an existing lane.
@@
May 30th, 2012
10:49 am
Hate it when people say this, but really….
when the liberals are here blogging between 8:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m., is traffic really a problem for them? It appears they’re working the midnight to 8:00 a.m. shift.
schnirt
Jefferson
May 30th, 2012
10:50 am
Jobs !!!!
iggy
May 30th, 2012
10:53 am
Since you libduhls are all about addl taxes perhaps strapping a rocket to your back and flying in, like Wile E Coyote, may also be a great solution…
A Realist
May 30th, 2012
10:55 am
Yes, people in Atlanta are paying more for improving the water/wastewater system. A solution that was deferred for many, many years. Everyone ‘kicked the can’ further down the road for future generations to deal with.
Sort of like putting off that transportation problem for many, many years, huh?
JDW
May 30th, 2012
10:56 am
@Kyle…but what was the density when the transit projects started? It does take time to create both density and systems…how much air traffic could Hartsfield have hoped to capture when the Atlanta Airport was born?
While density is a factor transit certainly works quite well when rail feeds from the outlying areas…say Cumming…into subway style systems. For example see the Metro London area. The point is that if we sit around and do nothing, which is what we have done for the last 10 years, then we will get exactly that nothing.
The T-SPLOST list is not perfect, nor will any list ever be, but it does represent progress and that is a step in the right direction.
iggy
May 30th, 2012
11:01 am
Like APS, DCSS, Clayton County etc Marta is a mis-managed debacle and will only be a drain on society. The bigger this elephant gets the more food/money/resources it will devour.
MarkV
May 30th, 2012
11:03 am
DeborahinAthens @6:04 am
While I share your desire for a much better mass transit in Atlanta, I think it is a mistake to argue with experience from Europe and some of the cities in the US that are more like those in Europe. European cities are much more “compact” and suitable for extensive rail transit, something I am afraid Atlanta never will be. I would support a monorail is selected areas, and a much better bus system might be the best answer, but I think cars will continue to play a major role here for a long time to come.
Dusty
May 30th, 2012
11:06 am
Well, I look at it this way.
Do NOT raise taxes. Raise more concerns about the way transportation money is spent. That is: Be prudent. Not profligate! (What? OK. Stop excess taxes and wasting money!)
md
May 30th, 2012
11:08 am
“Sort of like putting off that transportation problem for many, many years, huh?”
Hmmm……when I was growing up, ATL had less than a million in population, 285 was 2 lanes and Marta wasn’t even on the drawing board……it takes a lot of money just trying to keep pace, so to say nothing was done is a bit naive.
Oblama
May 30th, 2012
11:11 am
I’m for what works. Big government doesn’t work. The best way to solve the congestion in Atlanta is to locate industry in other parts of Georgia. People go where jobs are. If you don’t like congestion – move.
DannyX
May 30th, 2012
11:13 am
From the Onion?
Anti-tax Republicans in the Georgia legislature and governor cowardly voted to let the voters decide the fate of a 1% transportation sales tax plan. Ironically the anti tax Republican plan would be the largest tax increase in state history.
Ironically the project list the suburban Republican dominated committee came up with will do little to relieve suburban traffic! The hope is adding toll lanes and interchange improvements will magically take care of the suburbs chronic traffic problems. Ironically the suburbs let developers go wild and painted the suburbs into a corner, there is no land left to expand the freeway/toll road/hwy system.
The Onion should open an office in Georgia, the Republicans here would provide lots of content.
(T)axed (E)nough (A)lready (R)epublican, join the TEAR party, cry about traffic!
iggy
May 30th, 2012
11:14 am
Agreed md…and for these naysayers and rabble rousers spouting about lack of planning. I seem to recall Marta rail being started back in the late 60s early 70s. The line between 10th street and 14th streets was one of the first projects. The Marta station over 75/85 has been there since at least 1982 or prior.
As usual the libtards are ill/mis informed.
Cosby
May 30th, 2012
11:16 am
There appears to be a density problem in the Atlanta Metro area taht once taken into account will limit ridership and do very little to reduce congestion. MARTA has been a dismal failure in this subject, but then I gues the opusins and other Builders will push for it so they can continue to build new buildings along the rail line, where citizens will drive to. Boy is this a total rip off of the citizens…almost as much as the NFL demanding a new stadium
iggy
May 30th, 2012
11:18 am
Anyone wanna see the effects of mas transit just take a ride up too Gwinnett place mall. I moved to that area around 1989 and it was thriving. Then came the Gwinnett Bus service along with the crime.
That area is now a very scary place.
@@
May 30th, 2012
11:21 am
The can kickers:
1963–1967 Carl Sanders (D)
1971–1975 Jimmy Carter (D)
1983–1991 Joe Frank Harris (D)
1991–1999 Roy Barnes (D)
2003–2011 Sonny Perdue (R)
Today? Nathan Deal (R)
Dusty
May 30th, 2012
11:21 am
I think we need more study of European cities and their transportation layouts.
Would the designers of T-SPLOST please send ME to Paris for an indepth, all museum, restaurant and showplace review of that city (all for transportation, of course.) I will make a fine study and be careful with the money they furnish me to go there. Delta is ready and so am I.
Hey, politicians should not be the only ones to enjoy the “gravy train”. Anybody know a good lobbyist?
md
May 30th, 2012
11:22 am
“almost as much as the NFL demanding a new stadium”
This is a choice……the taxpayers/voters can opt not to fund it, but should know that the Birds are still a business out to make money…..it is not a gov’t entity.
And LA is shopping hard for a new team. Ask Phillips arena how much they miss the Thrashers….or the Flames, and if one is old enough….the Chiefs.
iggy
May 30th, 2012
11:29 am
“Would the designers of T-SPLOST please send ME to Paris for an indepth, all museum, restaurant and showplace review of that city (all for transportation, of course.)”
In a word, NO. BUT, they will send a study group, consisting of the mayor, previous mayors, eggheads, janitors, dignitaries etc. Yes a group of 250 or more on an all expense paid European Junkit…
@@
May 30th, 2012
11:29 am
I’m for what works. Big government doesn’t work. The best way to solve the congestion in Atlanta is to locate industry in other parts of Georgia. People go where jobs are. If you don’t like congestion – move.
Liberals are move into the arts than they are jobs. Hobnobbers.
@@
May 30th, 2012
11:37 am
“move” should be “more”.
You're as bad as Jim Wooten
May 30th, 2012
11:41 am
You’re too young to be as senile…
Dusty
May 30th, 2012
11:47 am
Hey iggy,
When is the next Atlanta junkit being planned to a nice European city? I”ll be glad to dust a few desks and shred a few papers for a study trip (only in first class, of course). I will learn a lot and bring it all back to the joy of Atlanta! Count me in!!! Viva la tranportation’!
Tom B.
May 30th, 2012
11:58 am
Until the plan involves rail service NOT leading into downtown ATL, I’ll never vote for it. Living in Woodstock and working in Norcross with a rail running from Sandy Springs to downtown does me no good. Not everybody works in Atlanta.
Dusty
May 30th, 2012
12:02 pm
You’re as bad as…..@11:41
Yawn….another liberal trying to act “ugly” over a fine Republican Jim Wooten was an excellent journalist and editor and a great asset to the AJC. He retired with a record of expertise and honesty much enjoyed by all of us who miss him.
Kyle is already giving us fine work with intelligence and integrity.
But you seem to have a problem. Is it envy of success or ignorance?
Junior Samples
May 30th, 2012
12:35 pm
Hi Kyle,
Who funds the public transportation system in Brussels?
Kyle Wingfield
May 30th, 2012
12:45 pm
Junior: It’s a mix of tax dollars and user fees, like just about everywhere else that has public transit. I don’t know what the mix is, to know if the burdens on taxpayers vs. system users are similar to the ones here.
Don
May 30th, 2012
3:04 pm
Another Brussels question. Did the transit get built AFTER the population was in place, before, or coincident?
stoptsplost
May 31st, 2012
3:19 pm
VOTE “NO” on TSPLOST on July 31, 2012
NO NEW TAXES – this is a new tax that has never existed before. DON’T VOTE A NEW TAX ON YOURSELF.
INCREASES THE SALES TAX ON FOOD, electricity and other essentials to build new roads. Ups sales taxes from 7 to 8 % for TEN years. No effect on gas tax or other transportation related activities.
ONLY 1/4 OF TAX COLLECTED IS RETURNED to the county. The rest goes to GDOT to build roads around the region mostly in urban, and not rural areas.
UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Creates a new level of government between the State and the County: Regional Transportational Authority that is not accountable to the People.
To help stop the TSPLOST go to http://www.StopTSPLOST2012.com
ErinRogers
May 31st, 2012
4:10 pm
@RoadScholar. As you know from personal experience I-285 can be an absolute nightmare and I agree wholeheartedly with you. However, one of the reasons why I am voting yes on the passage of this referendum is because of the improvements that will be made to the I-285 corridor. Major improvements at I-285 and I-85, and I-285 at GA 400 will be made to ease traffic.
Mike
June 1st, 2012
3:30 pm
I’m also very wary of the DOT. Gov. Deal removed a person with an engineering background and replaced him with someone politically connected but no experience in engineering or urban planning. But there is a bigger problem which has been mentioned before: people’s attitudes. People in GA have a hillbilly, NIMBY mindset; they view metro Atlanta as being full of ‘city slickers’ and would take great joy in seeing transportation reform fail in the metro area. They want to keep ‘certain people’ out of their neighborhoods so they’ll vote the tax down even if improved mass transit will help them. The only thing that can save the metro area would be if it could separate itself from the rest of the state and become independent. With the metro area consisting of only about 20 out of 159 counties, Republican politicians don’t need metro votes to stay in power, that’s why they’re kicking the can down the road to the voters on this issue.
Kyle Wingfield
June 1st, 2012
3:32 pm
Mike: The only people who get to vote on metro Atlanta’s T-SPLOST are the people in metro Atlanta. If the vote fails here, it won’t be because of anyone outside those 10 counties.
Also: Do the Kennedys qualify as “hillbillies” for their NIMBY attitude toward wind turbines on the Massachusetts coast?
Mike
June 1st, 2012
3:43 pm
Kyle, you’ve got people in the 20 county metro area who have these same attitudes. Also, you can’t spin and twist this to fit your agenda by throwing the Kennedys into this. Listen, I’ve lived in Atlanta for over 40 years and when it comes to this ‘hillbilly’ mentality believe me I’ve witnessed it firsthand. Anything that resembles progress these people resist; look at what’s going on with Briscoe Field in Gwinnett County. These people resist change; they long for an era that existed 50, 60 years ago. You’ve still got a lot to learn; you should get out more and actually talk to people and become familiar attitudes. They’ll tell you how they feel but not in front of a camera, and they won’t agree to let you print their opinions with their names attached.
Kyle Wingfield
June 1st, 2012
3:45 pm
Mike: Your opinion of the hillbilllies notwithstanding, they don’t get a vote unless they live in one of the 10 metro counties. So the result is not being foist upon the people of metro Atlanta by anyone else.
Mike
June 1st, 2012
3:58 pm
Kyle: I’ll tell you this much, if we don’t do SOMETHING most of us will be working 2-3 low wage, part-time jobs with no benefits. Studies have shown that companies are turning up their noses to Atlanta as a place to relocate due to our traffic problems. If the high-paying jobs they COULD bring here go somewhere else, guess what? The people capable of doing these jobs are going to LEAVE; then watch the bottom fall out of the tax base. Then these Republicans running this state are going to have to get really creative with the budget. Thanks and have a great weekend!
bu2
June 2nd, 2012
3:41 pm
If we do this, we will never be able to do anything that really works. People and jobs will go elsewhere. There’s a reason they keep emphasizing the jobs component. Its because they didn’t select projects with regard to their impact on traffic.
I wouldn’t have a problem with a list that was 75% mass transit-if it was useful mass transit instead of just a bunch of developer bailout projects. Other than the 1 mile extension of MARTA to the Gwinnet County line and possibly some of the deferred maintenance projects, I don’t think there are any good transit projects. There are some good bus lines, but I am opposed to paying a temporary 1% tax for recurring transit operations. This extra tax should be for capital projects, not recurring operations. And as Kyle pointed out before, its not clear that MARTA can support its current operating costs even with the full 1% current tax, let alone the additional costs of these riderless light rail projects.