Share of working-age Americans with a job is the lowest in decades
In the debate about whether the headline unemployment rate tells the whole story about the labor market, here’s another data point indicating there’s more than meets the eye. From the Washington Post:
The proportion of Americans in their prime working years who have jobs is smaller than it has been at any time in the 23 years before the recession, according to federal statistics, reflecting the profound and lasting effects that the downturn has had on the nation’s economic prospects.
By this measure, the jobs situation has improved little in recent years. The percentage of workers between the ages of 25 and 54 who have jobs now stands at 75.7 percent, just a percentage point over what it was at the downturn’s worst, according to federal statistics.
Before the recession the proportion hovered at 80 percent.
The story explains once more why the headline unemployment rate, which has held steady or fallen for 11 straight months, doesn’t paint the whole picture. Short answer: It’s about the continued problem of people giving up searching for work and taking themselves, statistically speaking, out of the work force — leading the unemployment rate to fall at a faster pace than job creation is rising.
But even this stat for 25- to 54-year-olds doesn’t tell the whole story. Further down in the article, we read:
The falloff has been sharpest for men, for whom the proportion had been on a slow decline before the recession. The percentage of prime-age men who are working is smaller now than it has been in any time before the recession, going all the way back to 1948, according to federal statistics. The proportion of prime-age women is at a low not seen since 1988.
That’s right: The proportion of prime-age men with a job is the smallest in at least 64 years. I say “at least” because 1948 is as far back as federal labor statistics go.
In the immediate future, this reality means the job market will have a larger impact on President Obama’s re-election chances than the steadily declining unemployment rate would suggest. Until participation in the labor force readjusts to historically normal levels, the unemployment rate doesn’t tell us as much as it once did. So the usual measures of how an incumbent does when the jobless rate is above or below X percent won’t do prognosticators as much good.
More broadly, however, this speaks to the issues Charles Murray highlights in his recent book, “Coming Apart.” Murray documents the dramatic divergence in employment between what he calls “the new upper class” and “the new lower class” — and argues that government programs that foster a culture of dependence and lack of personal responsibility have enabled this joblessness among men who otherwise ought to be working.
That broader context of the competing political ideologies in our country makes it all the more worthwhile for these depressing employment trends to be at the center of this year’s presidential campaign.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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240 comments Add your comment
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
May 30th, 2012
11:41 am
Some think the underground economy accounts for 3/4 of all employment.
http://www.alternet.org/story/155491/where_are_the_missing_5_million_workers_in_the_underground_economy
@@
May 30th, 2012
11:42 am
Prime “Rib” on Obama.
kelly
May 30th, 2012
11:47 am
We have been setting ourselves up for this kind of disaster for a long time. The decades long deterioration of our institutions has weakened us as a country. Particularly our education policy. This has less to do with unions or teachers than a non-existent national industrial policy. It is being widely reported that our problem is not that there aren’t jobs, it’s that we don’t have a trained workforce to do the jobs. This is a slow-motion crisis that will take a generation to fix. In today’s political climate, I wonder if we have the will to do the hard thing and turn this around.
DannyX
May 30th, 2012
11:48 am
Romney’s private sector experience didn’t help him create jobs in Massachusetts. Massachusetts ranked 47th out of 50 states in creating jobs during Romney’s tenure. What exactly is Romney’s ideology on jobs?
I don’t think Romney was very popular in Massachusetts. He didn’t run for reelection and trails Obama in Mass by 25 points.
How exactly does the economy replace all the jobs that were lost due to the Bush Great Recession, the corporate takeover frenzy, jobs lost to China, outsourcing to India, and government job losses?
@@
May 30th, 2012
11:50 am
Unreported income matters to the IRS because those “unreported” dollars are lost revenue for the taxman. (In 2001, the Internal Revenue Service estimates it was losing $345 billion in tax revenue. In 2009, according to Feige, that estimate could be approaching $600 billion.)
Oh my! Next thing ‘ya know, the dems will be taxing babysitters…yard sellers…
iggy
May 30th, 2012
11:50 am
“and argues that government programs that foster a culture of dependence and lack of personal responsibility have enabled this joblessness among men who otherwise ought to be working.”
HEAR, HEAR!!
Buried in the pages of ObamaCare is a plan/blueprint for increasing the enrollment for individuals into welfare and food stamps. Obama wants to be everyones Big Daddy. Forget jobs, just vote for me and I will take care of you until there are so many I will screw you all!!
JKL2
May 30th, 2012
11:51 am
Why get a job when you can just vote obama.
Free money for everyone!
Brought to you by the Democrat “give a man a fish” Party.
Illegal Alien
May 30th, 2012
11:56 am
With a Government that is achieving next to nothing, I’m not going to be hiring any new personnel. I’ve been scorched once, already.
When I talk about Government, that’s includes both parties.
JKL2
May 30th, 2012
11:58 am
danny x- I don’t think Romney was very popular in Massachusetts.
Might have something to do with horrendous Romneycare and bankrupting the state. I’m sure obama’s flagship program will work out better (until it’s overturned next month)
md
May 30th, 2012
12:01 pm
“Romney’s private sector experience didn’t help him create jobs in Massachusetts.”
You mean the very blue state with the very blue legislature??
He more than likely kept them from killing even more jobs……
DannyX
May 30th, 2012
12:02 pm
“Might have something to do with horrendous Romneycare and bankrupting the state.”
What a great candidate the Republicans have!!!
Kyle Wingfield
May 30th, 2012
12:03 pm
To be clear, that should be “prime working-age Americans” in the headline. I left out “prime” in my effort to keep it short. Apologies for any confusion.
md
May 30th, 2012
12:07 pm
Kyle….some would argue that “prime” is much higher than 54. I myself prefer to hire those over 54…..one doesn’t have to train them to get out of bed and they never quit when the cool kid is having a party……..
Jefferson
May 30th, 2012
12:09 pm
So somehow the blame lies on the President ? or are you just ridin’ the trash truck ? Just when did this trend begin ?
jd
May 30th, 2012
12:12 pm
I marvel at economists that can simply rationalize an outcome based on one variable… wow — so businesses don’t consider that increasing the avg number of hours worked as a cheaper than hiring additional employees? Or, the great recession did not “re-structure” the economy to take advantage of more efficient means of production? Or, unlike other recoveries, American business capital is more concentrated in the hands of a few choosing to invest in ventures with short run gains oblivious to the protestant work ethic of investing for the long run and thrift (see Max Weber)…. wow — just wow
Kyle Wingfield
May 30th, 2012
12:14 pm
md @ 12:07: I’m not going to argue, just using the terminology of the Post/Bureau of Labor Statistics (not sure which one came up with the term).
Aquagirl
May 30th, 2012
12:19 pm
The proportion of prime-age men with a job is the smallest in at least 64 years.
They’re all watching ESPN.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
May 30th, 2012
12:19 pm
Jefferson: So somehow the blame lies on the President ?
——–
A year into his regime? No.
Nearly four years in, after getting everything he wanted from Congress for the first two? Absolutely.
Obozo: Job-killing, economy-trashing failure.
Darwin
May 30th, 2012
12:20 pm
U.S. productivity is at its highest though. Which simply means that we are producing more with less manual labor. Call it technology. Just look at the automotive industry as an example. Robotics have replaced most of the “men” on the line. I would think this is a Republican’s dream.
md
May 30th, 2012
12:21 pm
“so businesses don’t consider that increasing the avg number of hours worked as a cheaper than hiring additional employees?”
Of course they do…..and even more so now that Obamacare is on the horizon. Then we have a little matter of higher unemployment insurance due to the rise in mandated benefits……not to mention the need for shifting accounting personnel to cover the new financial regulations…..
Yep….they all play a part in the mindset of business. A
And let’s not forget the added cost to consumers to use their credit cards to buy products from said businesses……..we all are enjoying covering the deadbeats with are higher rates.
md
May 30th, 2012
12:23 pm
“Robotics have replaced most of the “men” on the line. I would think this is a Republican’s dream.”
And replaced them with those smart enough to get their degrees in robotics………
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
May 30th, 2012
12:24 pm
Just look at the automotive industry as an example. Robotics have replaced most of the “men” on the line.
——–
What? GM is “maximizing profits”? I thought Obozo wanted everyone to have a “fair shot”…just another lie I guess.
Jefferson
May 30th, 2012
12:26 pm
The trend started before the president was elected.
Dusty
May 30th, 2012
12:29 pm
Well, the Democrats blamed everything from soup to nuts on President Bush. So now we can blame everything on President Obama.
Employment is not better for working age Americans. Neither jobs nor prosperity nor inspiration have improved under the current president..
We can be fooled for only a short time and that time is over for President Obama. Change is a necessity. Romney is ready, able and experienced!
Kyle Wingfield
May 30th, 2012
12:38 pm
Aquagirl: You laugh, but here’s one of the more revealing data points from Murray’s book (p. 181):
“In 2003-05, men [with no more than a high-school diploma] who were not employed spent less time on job search, education, and training, and doing useful things around the house than they had in 1985. They spent less time on civic and religious activities. They didn’t even spend their leisure time on active pastimes such as exercise, sports, hobbies, or reading. All of those figures were lower in 2003-05 than they had been in 1985. How did they spend that extra leisure time? Sleeping and watching television. The increase in television viewing was especially larger — from 27.7 hours per week in 1985 to 36.7 hours in 2003-05.”
Dusty
May 30th, 2012
12:39 pm
Robotics? Really?
I went to the grocery store and did not see a single robot.
I went to the dentist and not a single robot in sight (thank goodness!)
Went to QT and not a single robot was pumping gas and selling stuff.
Stopped at the hospital and robots were not doing surgery or bedside care.
Got on I285 and saw not a single robot truck driver.
Am I going to the wrong places to meet these wonderful robots? Do they live in Hollywood?
Kyle Wingfield
May 30th, 2012
12:40 pm
Jefferson @ 12:26: True, but do you expect voters who have been out of work for a year or two to give him that benefit of the doubt on Election Day?
iggy
May 30th, 2012
12:42 pm
Keanu Reeves acting skills seem quite robotic.
md
May 30th, 2012
12:43 pm
“but do you expect voters who have been out of work for a year or two to give him that benefit of the doubt on Election Day?”
His flock? Absolutely…..they’ll pull the lever for Obama and demand another 2 years of extended unemployment benefits……..not realizing the effect on employers in the long term.
Jefferson
May 30th, 2012
12:44 pm
Kyle, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain or those who prop him up…
Jefferson
May 30th, 2012
12:45 pm
Oh yea, what about the war on women with the PP funding ?
Stephenson Billings
May 30th, 2012
12:47 pm
Total participation rate is the lowest since 1981 at 64.3%
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/people-not-labor-force-soar-522000-labor-force-participation-rate-lowest-1981
Illegal Alien
May 30th, 2012
12:48 pm
My not having to pay for medical insurance increases my bottom line. The same probably holds true for other employers, also.
Thank goodness for Obamacare.
JDW
May 30th, 2012
12:51 pm
@dusty…”Am I going to the wrong places to meet these wonderful robots? Do they live in Hollywood?”
Yep. Try a factory or distribution warehouse. They are full of them. Why my back surgeon used a robot for the tricky stuff.
JDW
May 30th, 2012
12:56 pm
@kyle..”In the immediate future, this reality means the job market will have a larger impact on President Obama’s re-election chances than the steadily declining unemployment rate would suggest.”
You are overlooking one small fact…
“A plurality of Americans continue to blame Bush for the nation’s economic struggles: 43 percent of voters said he deserved a lot or almost all of the blame, compared with 36 percent who point to Republicans in Congress, 33 percent who think Democrats in Congress are responsible and 30 percent who blame President Obama, according to a December AP-GfK poll.”
http://articles.boston.com/2012-03-31/nation/31261397_1_mitt-romney-bush-legacy-florida-governor-jeb-bush
Voters remember how we got here and don’t care to repeat the mistake.
Oblama
May 30th, 2012
12:59 pm
Sorry Wingfield – Nanny Pelosi says people on welfare is GOOD for the economy…. it helps to spread the wealth. According to Nanny that welfare check keeps people in business. She says it’s even better fort the economy than a real job. Nanny is a real hoot – don’t you think so?
JDW
May 30th, 2012
1:00 pm
@dusty…”Well, the Democrats blamed everything from soup to nuts on President Bush. So now we can blame everything on President Obama.”
In case you missed it things got way worse under Duhbya and have improved since.
Oblama
May 30th, 2012
1:01 pm
As long as that unemployment check keeps coming in why look for a job? After all you get the same thing for doing nothing if you are on minimum wage. Where is the incentive to actually look for a job?
Dusty
May 30th, 2012
1:02 pm
Jefferson @ 12:45
Awwwwww I missed the War on Women. Must have gone to the wrong Mall.
I bet Aquagirl started it. She’s good at those things Wears army boots! But I bet she can’t knit, crochet or boil water! Sniff!
Nincompoops! Woman have always been in charge!
Aquagirl
May 30th, 2012
1:03 pm
Aquagirl: You laugh
Actually I was only half kidding: it’s not a coincidence we have shiny new stadiums and crappy school systems.
There are a lot of overgrown boys in this country who need to grow up and act like men. That means spending the weekend with their families, not watching guys in tight pants slapping each other on the butt.
Dusty
May 30th, 2012
1:04 pm
JDW@ 1:00
You better look up the definition of “improving”. Methinks thee are a bit confused.
Oblama
May 30th, 2012
1:04 pm
People actually believe that if they can get Oblama reelected he will keep them on unemployment for the next four years. They will wake up to reality shortly after this election is over and their check is cut off. It’s going to be sad and it’s going to hurt and it’s going to make people mad at Oblama. To late – got what you voted for.
Oblama
May 30th, 2012
1:06 pm
gone today – here tomorrow.
Oblama
May 30th, 2012
1:10 pm
Politicians in Congress today – of, by and for themselves. TERM LIMITS have a better chance of causing an economic recovery than the current politicians. Young people need to realize that the government isn’t going to be in a position to take care of them for the rest o their lives. Get out there and find a job – any job – and you will feel better about yourself.
md
May 30th, 2012
1:12 pm
“Oh yea, what about the war on women with the PP funding ?”
Red Herring…….but the talking point sounds good to those dumb enough to listen to it.
Is it a war on men if the taxpayers decide not to fund a new stadium??
Kyle Wingfield
May 30th, 2012
1:13 pm
JDW: One more time: A single poll does not constitute “fact” in the sense you suggest.
In any case, you will notice that 43+36+33+30=143, which is rather more than 100. So there’s some overlap in these answers. And in any case, not among the choices was one Mitt Romney, and he — not Bush — will be on the ballot opposite Obama.
You apparently assume the sentiment toward Bush will automatically transfer to Romney. I say that’s not necessarily a good assumption.
Grasshopper
May 30th, 2012
1:21 pm
DannyX @ 11:48
“Romney’s private sector experience didn’t help him create jobs in Massachusetts. Massachusetts ranked 47th out of 50 states in creating jobs during Romney’s tenure. What exactly is Romney’s ideology on jobs?”
That is such a load of hooey DannyX.
When Romney took office the unemployment rate in Mass. was 6%; when he left it was 4.5%. Considering full employment is about 5%, Romney’s record on job growth in Mass. is admirable. Compared to Obama’s record, it is miraculous!
DannyX
May 30th, 2012
1:25 pm
“That is such a load of hooey DannyX.”
If that is such a load of hooey Grasshopper why does Romney trail Obama by 25 points in Massachusetts? And why did Romney not run for a second term?
@@
May 30th, 2012
1:29 pm
Speaking of: the benefit of the doubt on Election Day?
Three “Elect Victor Hill” signs have sprung up in my neighbors’ yards.
Off-topic, I know, but
REALLY!!??!! ARE THEY SERIOUS!!??!!
md
May 30th, 2012
1:32 pm
“If that is such a load of hooey Grasshopper why does Romney trail Obama by 25 points in Massachusetts?”
What part of MA is a very blue state do you not understand??
DannyX
May 30th, 2012
1:35 pm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/as-massachusetts-governor-romneys-record-on-jobs-was-unremarkable/2012/02/06/gIQABzEfxQ_story.html
“”But Andrew Sum, a professor of economics at Northeastern University, says the unemployment rate fell only because people were leaving the workforce in droves during Romney’s term. Just one state had a bigger drop in its labor force during the same period, according to Sum — that was Louisiana, which was hit by Hurricane Katrina in 2005.
“There was not one measure where the state did well under his term in office. We were below average and often near the bottom,” said Sum, who is also the director of Northeastern’s Center for Labor Market Studies.”"
Again Grasshopper, why is Romney so unpopular in Massachusetts, he was their governor for 4 years?
Rockerbabe
May 30th, 2012
1:37 pm
Hey Kyle: blame it on the private sector and the GOP and their push to public service jobs at all levels of government. The fastest growing sector of the unemployed, is the former employees of the various governments in our country. YOU SHOULD BE HAPPY! Less government! So stop complaining.
Does anyone know of a good interstate bank? Bank of America is shipping american jobs in their call centers overseas. I am sick of this. . .no wonder President Obama is having such a hard time. The private sector is determined to “stick it” to the American public by taking our jobs away and giving them to overseas folks. Can’t blame that on Obama, but you will try.
DannyX
May 30th, 2012
1:37 pm
“What part of MA is a very blue state do you not understand??”
You mean the same state that elected Republican Romney governor just a few years back? The same state that just elected Republican Scott Brown senator?
iggy
May 30th, 2012
1:42 pm
The employee expense ratio, mainly caused by govt regulations, is one reason why employers ship jobs overseas.
Jefferson
May 30th, 2012
1:46 pm
Kyle, do you see differences between President Bush and Romney ? They look the same AND their policies will have the same results.
md
May 30th, 2012
1:50 pm
“You mean the same state that elected Republican Romney governor just a few years back? The same state that just elected Republican Scott Brown senator?”
Yes…..that state. The one with a very blue legislature. If one wants to give Obama a free pass over the last 3.5 years with 2 years of dem control, then pinning the MA legislatures actions on Romney is quite the stretch indeed.
And it must speak volumes about Romney and Brown for having been elected in the first place. You are aware that of the 10 MA Representatives, all 10 are democrat….right?? And the other Senator is democrat….as is the Governor.
As are 36 of the 40 State senators and 128 of the 160 state reps………
I’d say it must have been a miracle for Romney even to be considered……..all those dems must have seen something they liked………
JDW
May 30th, 2012
1:50 pm
@Kyle…”You apparently assume the sentiment toward Bush will automatically transfer to Romney. I say that’s not necessarily a good assumption.”
For the most part yes I think in the final analysis a large number of people will transfer that sentiment. In part due to the fact that I, nor anyone else, have yet to really find a tangible difference between the positions of the two. By the time the stories have been told I believe it will be clear that Romney represents a return to those very policies that landed us where we are today.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
May 30th, 2012
1:50 pm
Did you vote for Obozo to not only continue the negative trends caused by the Dodd-Frank recession, but to make things worse?
Why do Democrats hate America?
Hillbilly D
May 30th, 2012
1:51 pm
There is one thing about robotics and shipping jobs overseas that people overlook. Take GM for example. Back in 1970, GM had nearly 400,000 hourly employees. Those employees were built-in customers. They and usually their immediate families and sometimes more distant family and friends would buy GM cars. By 2009, that number of hourly employees had been reduced by about 90%. During that same time, GM’s market share has plummeted. Of course, that’s not the only thing that decreased their market share but you have to think that to a degree, they threw the baby out with the bath water.
One of the major reasons that Henry Ford paid his workers a high wage, for the time, when he came out with the Model T, was so they could afford to buy his cars.
Grasshopper
May 30th, 2012
1:51 pm
Did you read the entire article you linked Danny? There were many explanations as to the employment picture in Mass. during that time period.
And if you are saying that it is Romney’s fault that so many people in Mass. dropped out of the labor market during his tenure, then you must also be saying that it is Obama’s fault that so many in the US are dropping out of the labor market during his tenure.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
May 30th, 2012
1:52 pm
For the most part yes I think in the final analysis a large number of people will transfer that sentiment.
——–
That’s just plain ignorant.
Is that all the critical thinking skills our public education system can instill in you morons?
md
May 30th, 2012
1:54 pm
“One of the major reasons that Henry Ford paid his workers a high wage, for the time, when he came out with the Model T, was so they could afford to buy his cars.”
A totally different era…..good ole Henry didn’t have much global competition…..making cars even cheaper than he was.
md
May 30th, 2012
1:56 pm
“Romney represents a return to those very policies that landed us where we are today.”
Those policies weren’t restricted to one party…….so we should be good to go with Romney.
DannyX
May 30th, 2012
1:58 pm
So Grasshopper, you have no earthly idea why Romney is so unpopular in Massachusetts? No explanation at all? Nothing?
md
May 30th, 2012
2:04 pm
“So Grasshopper, you have no earthly idea why Romney is so unpopular in Massachusetts? No explanation at all? Nothing?”
It’s basic common sense……a State full of dems likes the incumbent dem President……….
stands for decibels
May 30th, 2012
2:05 pm
getting everything he wanted from Congress for the first two
ha ha ha.
you funny.
JDW
May 30th, 2012
2:05 pm
@Dusty…”You better look up the definition of “improving”. Methinks thee are a bit confused.”
Methinks you are in denial but for grins and giggles….
Improving (present participle of im·prove) (Verb) Make or become better. For example:
Job creation numbers are steadily improving. Over the five months from December 2011 to April 2012 the economy created an average of 205,000 new jobs each month. Contrast that with the period from December 2008 to April 2009 when job losses averaged 595,000 a month and only a partisan fool could deny that things have gotten better.
I could do one for GDP growth, credit availability and many other data points but you get the idea.
JDW
May 30th, 2012
2:08 pm
@LBB…”Is that all the critical thinking skills our public education system can instill in you morons?”
Actually I think most people will get the idea pretty easily…you however are an exception.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
May 30th, 2012
2:08 pm
how big do you folks think those unemployment checks are?
And you do realize that those checks allow people to “buy” stuff with the funds they provide? That spend contributes to the economy as well.
JDW
May 30th, 2012
2:09 pm
@LBB…”Why do Democrats hate America?”
They don’t. We are however tasked with the unplesantness of saving America from the misguided Right.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
May 30th, 2012
2:11 pm
the Dodd-Frank recession?
Really?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
May 30th, 2012
2:12 pm
JDW 2:09
Spot on!
md
May 30th, 2012
2:12 pm
“how big do you folks think those unemployment checks are?”
About the same as a minimum wage job…….one would be naive to think some aren’t taking advantage of the system. I know quite a few personally that are from 2 person households and are looking at it as a 2 year break to stay home with the kids while the other works……just another loop-hole being utilized by the masses.
md
May 30th, 2012
2:14 pm
“And you do realize that those checks allow people to “buy” stuff with the funds they provide? That spend contributes to the economy as well.”
As if the folks it was taken from wouldn’t “buy” stuff too??
The Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers
May 30th, 2012
2:15 pm
and argues that government programs that foster a culture of dependence and lack of personal responsibility have enabled this joblessness among men who otherwise ought to be working
Kyle, I would say this is a reach. Manufacturing and I.T jobs have been shipped overseas, turning a blind eye to 18 million illegal immigrants have taken a larger toll. Many unemployed voters are stuck pulling the lever either for a guy they know wants amnesty, or a guy that more represents big business and job outsourcing. My vote will come down to whom I feel will be more competent at solution based politics. It will be an easy choice.
Hillbilly D
May 30th, 2012
2:17 pm
A totally different era…..good ole Henry didn’t have much global competition…..making cars even cheaper than he was.
That’s true but we also used to have import tariffs.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
2:17 pm
”But Andrew Sum, a professor of economics at Northeastern University, says the unemployment rate fell only because people were leaving the workforce in droves during Romney’s term.”
So people leaving the workforce in droves during Romney’s term = bad. People leaving the workforce in droves during Obama’s term = he gets a pass.
Got it, DannyX.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
2:19 pm
Oh, and talk about robotic?
Have you read any post from an Obama-bot on this blog? Not an independent thought in their little heads.
md
May 30th, 2012
2:19 pm
“or a guy that more represents big business and job outsourcing.”
For those on the left that bash big business, I would like to point out that it takes big business making lots of profits to carry the weight of big government……..a double edged sword.
md
May 30th, 2012
2:22 pm
“That’s true but we also used to have import tariffs.”
Yes, we did…..but so did everybody else. I see that one canceling itself out these days……except in those few countries such as China that still manipulates the system.
But we are the ones still doing the consuming……and it is always a choice.
Rafe Hollister- trying to save the Choom Gang
May 30th, 2012
2:23 pm
It took four posts before Bush was blamed! The man left Washington four years ago and he is responsible for the lowest percentage of working eligible folks with jobs. We spent 1 Trillion on the stimulus to put people back to work, that was after Bush BTW, and probably a Trillion on Green Energy Jobs, what happened to those.
All the while we can’t build the Keystone pipeline and we can’t seem to get drilling back on track in the Gulf after Oblamer rigged the study he commissioned to shut down the rigs. He laid off 50,000 military men, now looking for a job in the private sector. He has discouraged drilling for oil/nat gas on federal lands. He has put the coal burning electric generating plants out of business, therefore eliminating hundreds of thousands of coal jobs. He will not let us develop our oil sands in western states. He has attacked private equity firms and Wallstreet causing them to retreat and regroup rather than expand and hire. His TSA thugs have made it so unpleasant to fly that folks are staying home rather than travel, eliminating many tourist related jobs.
In spite of all this, it is Bush’s fault.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
May 30th, 2012
2:26 pm
<iAs if the folks it was taken from wouldn’t “buy” stuff too??
To apply this thinking to a simplistic example:
So, if they both had apples on hand, a person with lots of money would eat more apples in a day than a person with little money?
A person with lots of money would eat more lunches in a day than a person with little money?
If they both have toilet paper, toothpaste and bars of soap on hand, you are saying a person with lots of money uses more rolls of toilet paper, more squeezes of toothpaste, more bars of soap in a single day than a person with little money?
This is why you folks are so confused on the fair tax issue and can’t comprehend that the true job creators are the middle class consumers.
Dusty
May 30th, 2012
2:27 pm
JDW,
You and Finn are so predictable.
You, for example, think if someone makes a dime one day and the next day a quarter, the economy has greatly improved. Ah yes!
And Finn thinks if everyone were on unemployment, spending all that minimum amount of money would really improve the economy. But if they were working at full wage, wellllllll…. they couldn’t be happy and dependent as they were before with taxpayers supporting them. .
Yep, that is how we are making the “great” imiprovements. Passing out taxpayer money to improve the economy! Oh, how liberals hate the curse of work!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
May 30th, 2012
2:28 pm
According to Rafe, the day after Obama assumed office, everything Kyle is writing about went into effect. The day before, I suppose, unemployment was 4 or 5%?
DannyX
May 30th, 2012
2:31 pm
“So people leaving the workforce in droves during Romney’s term = bad. People leaving the workforce in droves during Obama’s term = he gets a pass. ”
Actually you should address that question to Kyle, put it this way,
People leaving the workforce in droves during Obama’s term = bad. People were leaving the workforce in droves during Romney’s term, he’s the one us republicans picked to fix the problem.
Btw Tiberius, why is Romney so unpopular in Massachusetts? The ex-Mass Gov is down 25% against the President in Ma.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
May 30th, 2012
2:31 pm
dusty, I didn’t say we need more people on unemployment. What I was saying is that at any given time a certain percentage of the population will be unemployed. For those who are in that situation, those checks aren’t a complete waste to the rest of us as a whole.
JDW
May 30th, 2012
2:33 pm
@MD…”I would like to point out that it takes big business making lots of profits to carry the weight of big government”
Actually one of the problems is that they don’t really carry thier load. Taxes as a % of revenue are about as follows:
Payroll Taxes 40%
Income Taxes 42%
Corporate Taxes 9%
Other Taxes 6%
Excise Taxes 3%
Revenue from the corporate income taxes has fallen from between 5 and 6 percent of GDP in the early 1950s to 1.3 percent of GDP in 2010.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/numbers/revenue.cfm
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
May 30th, 2012
2:34 pm
All it takes is for your boss or CEO to make one bone-headed move and you could be out the door – possibly spending a week or more on unemployment. I’m glad we have a system (we pay into!!!!) for when that crap happens. Kinda like being glad you have insurance when a drunk t-bones you at an intersection.
Rafe Hollister- trying to save the Choom Gang
May 30th, 2012
2:35 pm
Kyle, talking about inaccurate unemployment figures, which they are, what about the inaccurate inflation numbers. I know the Consumer Price Index has been massaged and manipulated to death and it did not start with Barry. I believe Housing Prices are included and those are through the floor, so everything else will have to increase by 50% to move the needle. If rent were included rather than housing prices we would be looking at what we are really experiencing, probably something like 8-10% per year.
Getting to where I do not trust any numbers that originate in a government agency.
JDW
May 30th, 2012
2:38 pm
@Dusty…”You, for example, think if someone makes a dime one day and the next day a quarter, the economy has greatly improved. Ah yes!”
Might I suggest 1st grade math as a refresher. My daughter just completed it and has learned that a quarter does indeed represent an improvement over a dime.
Might you like more? Sure! However that doesn’t mean I want to elect the guy that wants to do the same things that cut my income to a dime in the first place….that would be…well…insane.
grated
May 30th, 2012
2:40 pm
This economy is the Bush Legacy, and it reveals just how bad a force the GOP is. Obama is the perfect man for the job of President, and without him we’d be in the stone age by now for sure.
Trump is a great entertainer, but he can’t sing. Remember when he sang “green acres” on Television a while back? Who talked him into that? What a total disaster. Honestly.
Romney is unelectable. He has a deer in headlights look that cant be overcome and during the debates, his campaign will collapse. Obama landslide fo sho.
Dusty
May 30th, 2012
2:40 pm
Rafe, @ 2:23
Feel encouraged! I see that many people think Romney is much like Bush. The more I hear that the more I like Romney.
Having an honest, strong, dependable, patriotic, hard-working, ethical president again will certainly be refreshing. The country will be invigorated and move forward.
No more presidential Hope & Change. Just strong reliability and pride in America. That will be Romney.
Rafe Hollister- trying to save the Choom Gang
May 30th, 2012
2:40 pm
Finn
Finn unemployment rate Jan 2009—–7.6%
Oblamer hopes to someday get back there!!!!
JDW
May 30th, 2012
2:41 pm
@LBB…Not only do Democrats not hate America…we can spell it…
http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/30/tech/mobile/amercia-romney-iphone-app/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
Mandingo
May 30th, 2012
2:42 pm
“and argues that government programs that foster a culture of dependence and lack of personal responsibility have enabled this joblessness among men who otherwise ought to be working.”
Help me understand Kyle, What goverment propram for men are you alluding too Kyle ?????
DannyX
May 30th, 2012
2:42 pm
“Feel encouraged! I see that many people think Romney is much like Bush. The more I hear that the more I like Romney.”
Dusty, I’m sure Romney would love to have Bush out on the campaign trail with him! Right??
Hillbilly D
May 30th, 2012
2:44 pm
I know the Consumer Price Index has been massaged and manipulated to death
Good point. I keep track of my non-discretionary spending each year and it’s gone up 6-7% for each of the last 2 years. I think most of the statistics are manipulated to benefit whoever is in office at the time. It’s been that way for many years and I don’t expect it to change.
Dusty
May 30th, 2012
2:46 pm
JDW
You missed the point. Neither a dime nor a quarter is “good” money. You address a poor economy as better. It may be “better” but it is still not “good”. Certainly nothing to brag about. Just ask your daughter..
Grasshopper
May 30th, 2012
2:47 pm
“So Grasshopper, you have no earthly idea why Romney is so unpopular in Massachusetts? No explanation at all? Nothing?”
This would be about the best answer I could give you DannyX.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/114016/state-states-political-party-affiliation.aspx
If it is too difficult for you to understand, there is not much I can do for you.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
2:47 pm
“This is why you folks are so confused on the fair tax issue and can’t comprehend that the true job creators are the middle class consumers.”
Rich people buy lots more things than poor and middle class people do, Finn. They have the money to entertain large groups of friends (more food and material costs) they buy more luxury (high ticket) items and they buy multiple homes and cars – all of which are taxed under the fair tax.
So you not only don’t understand the fair tax, you don’t understand the economy and the consumer as well.
md
May 30th, 2012
2:47 pm
“To apply this thinking to a simplistic example:
So, if they both had apples on hand, a person with lots of money would eat more apples in a day than a person with little money?”
A wee bit too simplistic……the economy has more than just apple vendors……if the more expensive goods are not being purchased, those vendors can’t make their profit….which means more jobs cut.
md
May 30th, 2012
2:49 pm
“Actually one of the problems is that they don’t really carry thier load. Taxes as a % of revenue are about as follows:
Payroll Taxes 40%
Income Taxes 42%
Corporate Taxes 9%
Other Taxes 6%
Excise Taxes 3%”
Huh??
ALL those taxes come from corporations……..they don’t make their profits, those taxes aren’t collected either…….
Grasshopper
May 30th, 2012
2:49 pm
“People leaving the workforce in droves during Obama’s term = bad. People were leaving the workforce in droves during Romney’s term, he’s the one us republicans picked to fix the problem.”
You conveniently ignore the fact that Mass. was at full employment with Romney as governor. You cannot explain that away.
JDW
May 30th, 2012
2:52 pm
@Dusty…”Having an honest, strong, dependable, patriotic, hard-working, ethical president again will certainly be refreshing.”
Honest–just where did I put those WMD’s.
Strong–have you seen the “My Pet Goat” video…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WztB6HzXxI
Dependable–”We’ll get Bin Laden dead or alive”…hummm
Patriotic–The carrier landing just brought tears to my eyes…of course onions do as well.
Hard-Working–Have you seen the vacation days through Feb of year 4…Bush 220 Obama about 100.
Ethical–Only if you like torture as an interrogation device.
Have some coffee….
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
May 30th, 2012
2:53 pm
And you do realize that those checks allow people to remain unemployed and unproductive?
———
Fixed. And yes, we do.
DannyX
May 30th, 2012
2:54 pm
“You cannot explain that away.”
I already did. You cannot explain why Romney is so unpopular in Mass.
Dusty
May 30th, 2012
2:54 pm
Danny X,
Romney does not think like a liberal. He has high regard for Bush and will have even more when he faces the complexities before him in Washington after winning the election. Why do you think Obama has followed so many of Bush’s programs?.Because they made “sense”.
Bush faced one of the greatest calamities in American history and came out solid as a rock. Too bad liberals have such short memories but Romney is not afflicted with such deficiencies as that.
iggy
May 30th, 2012
2:55 pm
“And you do realize that those checks allow people to “buy” stuff with the funds they provide? That spend contributes to the economy as well.”
Then based on that logic everyone should quit their jobs and go on unemployement. After all, that spending contributes to the economy.
Im putting a frowny face beside your name on The Employee of the Day Calendar.
Thats two days in a row. Wanna try for 3?
MarkV
May 30th, 2012
2:55 pm
I think it is a mistake for Obama supporters to minimize the gravity of the employment situation. It may seem to make sense politically, but in reality the people who are affected will know better even if they are told it is not so bad. And while one can quibble with a statistic here and there, from what I know the situation is at least as bad as Kyle describes, if not worse.
It is also not very productive to keep hammering at Bush’s guilt. When the discussion is about Obama’s performance, it is very appropriate to point out the situation he inherited. But regarding blame, there is plenty of it not only with Bush, but also with others, including some prominent Democrats.
What the discussion should be about is the appropriate policy that would most likely result in an improvement. And this is where the “the sky is falling, look at the national debt” crowd is the major obstacle.
——————————————–
Dusty,
If you are interested, I have written my response to your late night post.
Rafe Hollister- trying to save the Choom Gang
May 30th, 2012
2:55 pm
Dusty
President Romney will be a better President that Pres Bush. He is so much better at solving problems and seems to have learned his lesson well, that trying to cater to the libs will not make them like you. Bush spent too much time and effort trying to be a uniter not a divider. He seemed to think they sided with him in private, but made fun of him and voted against him in public. He should have realized with whom he was dealing, long before he did.
Romney is a better speaker and will be much better than GWB at explaining himself and his positions. I think when he gets in office, he will be able to engage the American people in an effort to pay down some of this debt and get the budget under control. Bush did not have the ability to express himself well.
JDW
May 30th, 2012
2:56 pm
@Dusty…”You missed the point. ”
No the point is that while we wish things were a bit better they are a damn sight improved from Duhbya’s Folly. Even a 1st grader knows that if you get burned once not to do the same thing again. Romeny=Duhbya
iggy
May 30th, 2012
2:58 pm
‘they are a damn sight improved from Duhbya’s Folly”
DannyX
May 30th, 2012
2:59 pm
“You cannot explain why Romney is so unpopular in Mass.”
Grasshopper, seems to me the people in Massachusetts elected a couple of Republicans recently, Gov Romney then a few years later Sen Brown. You still haven’t answered the question, why is Romney so unpopular in Mass?
Republican Sen Brown is favored to win reelection in November, Romney is going to lose Mass. by 25%.
JDW
May 30th, 2012
3:01 pm
@Dusty…”Too bad liberals have such short memories”
No I have a long memory…while Duhbya was cutting taxes and running up the debt he was ignoring Richard Clarke’s plea to address the issue of Bin Laden. When he finally got around to having a meeting on the subject it was September 2001 a full 7 months after taking office.
Rafe Hollister- trying to save the Choom Gang
May 30th, 2012
3:01 pm
JDW
Hard-Working–Have you seen the vacation days through Feb of year 4…Bush 220 Obama about 100.
Well, for one Oblamer can’t stand being out of the spotlight. Can you image him in Crawford, TX. The man would not know which end of the ax to hit the brush with. Bush liked being out of the spotlight and was working while at Crawford. How many golf rounds did Oblamer play the first 3.5 years vice Bush. Well the Bush total was few, as he thought it to be in poor taste to play golf while the military was under hostile fire.
Dusty
May 30th, 2012
3:01 pm
JDW 2:52
You could have written the manual for unpretenious liberal propaganda as far as I can see. Most of your suggestions wouldn’t pass the grade in grammar school.
Are there any intellectuals left in the Democratic Party?
iggy
May 30th, 2012
3:03 pm
they are a damn sight improved from Duhbya’s Folly”
I seem to recall unemployment under W was approx 5% at which time Nasty Pelosi was screaming. Where is Nasty now…she hasnt uttered a word.
Obamas lowest unemployment number is 8%.
Rafe Hollister- trying to save the Choom Gang
May 30th, 2012
3:05 pm
Ethical–Only if you like torture as an interrogation device.
JDW
So, blowing a terrorist and occasionally their families and friends up with a drone strike, without proof or trial, is better than waterboarding them? A Democrat kindness I’m sure, not putting them through a water bath first.
Dusty
May 30th, 2012
3:07 pm
Now comes Richard Clarke, huh JDW?
You are corrrect. Bush did not take the advice of one man in the Security Department.
He took the conclusions of the CIA and British Intel.
Remember Prez Clinton? He knew about bin Laden and bombed an empty camp and a pharmaceutical plant. He must have listened to Richard Clarke.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
3:08 pm
“why is Romney so unpopular in Massachusetts? The ex-Mass Gov is down 25% against the President in Ma.”
Many reasons, DannyX. And as someone from that state who keeps a sharp eye on it, with relatives still living there, I know what is going on in Massachusetts.
First, to your point about Scott Brown’s election. It was a special election in 2010 against an incredibly weak and unpopular state Attorney General, Martha Coakley. Horrible campaigner, and was running against a very personable, handsome and engaging state senator in an election year that favored the GOP. As it was the margin was still in single digits, despite the advantages listed above.
Now to Romney. No matter what you may think (and certainly do not know), Massachusetts is a deep blue state, and only elects Republicans by the barest of margins and only if they are clearly moderate. They currently have NO U.S. representatives of the Republican persuasion. Their state house is populated by an 85% Democrat-controlled majority in both the House and the Senate (down from a high of 95% when Romney was governor) and most are hard-core leftists.
Romney was a moderate when he was first elected, and governed fairly moderately while in office. However, Massachusetts voters are notoriously fickle; the current Democrat governor, Deval Patrick, needed a Democrat drop-out, third-party candidate to get himself re-elected later in 2010. If not for the third-party candidate, he would have lost as he only got 48% of the vote.
So Massachusetts voters don’t really appreciate incumbency as a general rule (unless you’re Ted Kennedy).
Now, add into the mix that Romney had to run more to the right in the GOP primary this season, and he’s further away from his moderate roots than he was during his time as governor. Massachusetts voters will NOT support someone who is more right-wing than moderate, which is why his numbers are low right now. As he moderates more during the general campaign, and distances himself from the media and Democrat-generated social issues (which, if you look at the record were aimed more towards Santorum), his numbers will improve slightly, even if he won’t get enough to turn Massachusetts into a red state this November. I predict a 10 point to 12 point difference between him and Obama when all is said and done.
Grasshopper
May 30th, 2012
3:08 pm
Read my 2:47 DannyX
Or do you enjoy being a bore?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
May 30th, 2012
3:10 pm
Well, Fox has finally nutted up and acted like an adult. Bought time they grew a pair…
Perhaps frustrated after years of pretending to be a “fair and balanced” news organization, Fox News threw out its usual playbook of merely skirting the line of journalistic ethics today and went all in with a four-minute video that can only be described as a political attack ad. The slickly-produced video, which Fox & Friends co-host Steve Doocy said had been “weeks” in the making, aired on the morning news show today after a brief introduction from the Fox crew. “Let’s talk a little bit about what the campaign slogan used to be for President Obama when he was a candidate, remember it was ‘hope and change,’” co-host Gretchen Carlson said, “so we decided to take a look back at the president’s first term to see if it lived up to ‘hope and change.’”
http://www.salon.com/2012/05/30/fox_news_cuts_obama_attack_ad/
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
3:19 pm
And DannyX, the only reason why Scott Brown’s numbers are favorable (barely) at this time is that he’s running against blonde-haired, blue-eyed Elizabeth “Granny” Warren, otherwise known as Fauxcahontas or Lieawatha for her claims of Native American lineage and her plagiarism of recipes in the now-infamous cookbook – Pow Wow Chow.
She submitted a recipe for the well-known Oklahoma Cherokee dish of “Cold Omletes with crab meat” (not sure where Cherokee Indians in Oklahoma were able to find crabs, but she’s certain they did. . . Another recipe submitted was taken verbatim out of a Good Housekeeping magazine back in the ’70’s.
Add to that she makes over $350k per year from Harvard University teaching part-time, all while railing against the 1% which she and her husband are part of.
Don't Tread
May 30th, 2012
3:19 pm
I wonder what the statistic is for underemployed people in their “prime” earning years?
How about able bodied unemployed welfare recipients? (The socialists in government are not interested in reporting that statistic.)
Rafe Hollister- trying to save the Choom Gang
May 30th, 2012
3:20 pm
Finn
You are just not used to a Dem President being held accountable for the campaign promises he broke.
The alphabet news elites used to do it regularly with the GOP Presidents. I remember Dan Rather getting into a shouting match with GHWB over an issue Bush refused to answer correctly, according to what the media judged to be “the truth”. Ole Dan, the fabricator of records, was not exactly objective in his analysis.
JDW
May 30th, 2012
3:20 pm
@Dusty…”one man in the Security Department”
Educate yourself…the “one man” was the President’s Chair of the Counter-terrorism Security Group. The ONE MAN whose job it was to advise the President on such matters…he was right and Bush ignored him.
Dusty
May 30th, 2012
3:21 pm
Iggy
You bring to mind Nancy Pelosi (D). Where is she? Haven’t seen her endorsement of President Obama. She will probably send a couple of millions to help out.. OH, the “evil rich” so despised by liberals.
And Harry Reid, our Morman Democrat, is he about to apply for unemployment?
They are like MacArthur; politicians just fading away. Obama is next.
Rafe Hollister- trying to save the Choom Gang
May 30th, 2012
3:23 pm
Nancy Pelosi, circa 2007, unemployment below 6%, “where are the jobs, Mr President”?
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
3:23 pm
So comparing and contrasting what was then to what is now is considered an attack ad, Finn?
What is Fox supposed to do, spout the DNC talking points like MSNBC and CNN do on a daily basis, or are they supposed to INFORM us of the differences made during Obama’s first term so that we can make up our own minds?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
May 30th, 2012
3:25 pm
Romney is much like Bush.
Except for that whole cult follower thing? Of course some would consider fundamentalist christians cult followers too.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
May 30th, 2012
3:28 pm
I didn’t know MSNBC had created an ad during an election year to run with the sole purpose of trying to oust a conservative?
Did I miss something?
Dusty
May 30th, 2012
3:30 pm
Poor JDW,
Clarke gave bad advice and Bush did not take it. As I mentioned, he took the advice of CIA & British Intel, the condensed work of two major organizations and not the conclusion of one man.
A smart idea in almost all circumstances.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
3:31 pm
“I didn’t know MSNBC had created an ad during an election year to run with the sole purpose of trying to oust a conservative?”
No, they just created an 18-hour lineup of opinion shows with the sole purpose of ensuring that conservatives lose elections.
So yes, you DID miss something (as usual).
The Staff of MSNBC
May 30th, 2012
3:33 pm
“I didn’t know MSNBC had created an ad during an election year to run with the sole purpose of trying to oust a conservative?”
The ad was called ‘Our Entire Prime Time Line-Up.’ You should check it out sometime!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
May 30th, 2012
3:34 pm
Tiberius, you really can’t tell the difference between an advertisement and regular programming?
Guess not.
let me help:: You know those E-Trade babies? They aren’t part of that Desperate Housewives show you watch.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
May 30th, 2012
3:38 pm
You know, if you folks really thing Romney has a chance to win this thing, you should place bets on the odds in Vegas right now before they start swinging in favor of him. Romney is still around 2:1.
HDB
May 30th, 2012
3:40 pm
Tiberius – Banned from Bookman’s and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
2:47 pm
Have a counter for you! One person buying a $1M home actually spent LESS than 25 people spending %50,000 for a house! How?? VOLUME!! The quantity that someone in the middle class generates is greater than the quantities that the wealthy generate!! Granted, they spend at the top end…but the volume spent by the middle class surpasses those of the rich!1 That’s why the rich get richer…because of the VOLUME generated by the middle class!! Why did Henry Ford pay his workers as he did…..so they could AFFORD to buy a Model T…making Ford RICHER!!
Dusty
May 30th, 2012
3:40 pm
Sure, Finn,
People without the stable base of faith have long argued that heathenism is far better.. Kinda like “ignorance is bliss”. They ignore the great blessings given to all of us. Too self centered to be thankful.
Keep up your cult talk. It only demeans you as you try to demean others. That’s a shame.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
3:42 pm
Actually, I do know the difference, Finn. The so-called “ad” was about 2 minutes long. The regular programming at MSNBC is 18 hours long.
Was the so-called “ad” a bit over the top? Yes, it was. But is Martin Bashir and Lawrence O’Donnell spending hours denigrating the Mormon religion and painting Mitt Romney with agreeing to 100% of the smears considered over the top as well? You bet.
To summarize: We have 2 minutes of an ad-style review of the numbers Obama inherited vs. the numbers as they are today, compared with 18 hours EVERY SINGLE DAY on MSNBC bashing Republicans and conservatives.
This could only sound comparable to an idiot liberal.
Rafe Hollister- trying to save the Choom Gang
May 30th, 2012
3:44 pm
It is something to be proud of that Fox, all alone, can in effect stalemate the other news outlets combined. I think because “rational, thinking people” tend to gravitate toward a place where the news is more fair and balanced and liberals at least have a chance to express themselves. They like that a liberal may be vehemently opposed by the interviewer, but at least he is not out numbered three or four to one, like conservatives are on the other networks.
The other networks try to give the impression that conservatives are under represented in the real world and they could only find one to take on the panel of left wing experts assembled, all four of them.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
3:46 pm
“One person buying a $1M home actually spent LESS than 25 people spending %50,000 for a house!”
Here’s REALITY for you, HDB. There are NO $50,000 homes for sale (except for foreclosures right now). So you don’t get to play that fictional game, son.
And of course if the government policies foisted on the home markets by Democrat policies didn’t artificially inflate home prices to begin with, we maybe would have more $50,000 homes for everybody to buy.
HDB
May 30th, 2012
3:46 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
May 30th, 2012
2:53 pm
And you do realize that those checks allow people to remain unemployed and unproductive?
———
Fixed. And yes, we do.
========================================================================Not in all cases, LBB….for many, an unemployment check is the stopgap that allows one to SURVIVE….as in paying BILLS, FOOD, SHELTER……
Conservatives aren’t seeing the entire picture….more of a case of selective amnesia……
iggy
May 30th, 2012
3:47 pm
Dusty. Yeah ole “Nasty” is one of those hated rich folks that owns a vineyard, etc.
A little about Mr and Mrs Nasty below. And OMG, she is making earnings from that stock market thing. Terrible.
SSHHH. Keep that under wraps!
“The first female Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi has an estimated net worth of $35.2 million as of 2011.Pelosi’s drastic growth, from an initial $21.7 million in 2009, is attributed to recent stock gains and smart investments. Her husband reported raking in $1 million to $5 million in 2010 from a sale of Apple stocks.
The couple also has a commercial property in San Francisco and a home in St. Helena, Calif., each valued between $5 million and $25 million. She also has a stake in some valuable residential real estate in Sacramento.
All rank-and-file members of Congress received salaries of $174,000 last year. As speaker in 2010, Pelosi was paid $223,500, and House and Senate majority and minority leaders garnered $193,400.”
HDB
May 30th, 2012
3:50 pm
Tiberius – Banned from Bookman’s and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
3:46 pm
Tibby….many contractors won’t BUILD a house at $50K….it’s the MARKET FORCES at work…a conservative paradigm!!
There ARE houses on the market that are not foreclosures that are selling for $50K…several in my neighborhood, as a mater of fact…..getting the LENDERS to spend is the issue here!!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
May 30th, 2012
3:51 pm
Exactly correct, HDB.
These folks see the big price tag of the corporate jet but don’t realize only a few people buy those things and those who do buy them normally don’t need more than one at a time.
But these folks also can’t comprehend that if I make $1 million a year and pay 15% in taxes ($150,000) and another person is making $100K a year and paying 25% in taxes ($25,000), I’m not the one getting screwed even though my tax bill is $125,000 higher than the other guys tax bill.
I have 85% of my income to spend any way I want. The other guy only has 75% of his income to spend any way he wants.
Rafe Hollister- trying to save the Choom Gang
May 30th, 2012
3:53 pm
http://www.cnbc.com/id/47614988
20,000 people apply for 890 jobs at Alabama auto plant. Thank you President Barry Oblamer, you are right the economy is getting better. I can hear our deal leader now, “If it was not for our handling of the economy and our Stimulus bill, heck, there could have been 50,000 looking for these jobs. Vote for me, THINGS COULD BE WORSE!
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
3:54 pm
“many contractors won’t BUILD a house at $50K….it’s the MARKET FORCES at work”
Yes, HDB, the government interference market forces at work.
Loki
May 30th, 2012
3:54 pm
I have not read all the comments, but are there any statistics of how many skilled jobs are unfilled due to lack of qualified workers? I hear lots of anecdotal evidence, but nothing reliable.
Is there a substantial gap?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
May 30th, 2012
3:54 pm
Tiberius at 3:46,
Tiberius, you really can’t see past the actual example numbers to see the point HDB is trying to make, can you? Please tell me you can actually comprehend the point being made?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
May 30th, 2012
3:57 pm
HDB, just raise your $50k number to $200k and the results better exemplify the point you are making.
It’s the math that gets them!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
May 30th, 2012
4:02 pm
Even the wealthy will tell you that only the middle class can drive an economy. The only way the rich would be able to drive an economy this size was if their numbers grew substantially. They can afford a lot but not as much as the great unwashed mass in the middle.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
4:07 pm
I understand the market forces far, far better than you can ever comprehend, Finn.
And it all boils down to government interference in them.
Jefferson
May 30th, 2012
4:12 pm
Why will seperated Romney from the GOP that lost the last election due to policies that led to the crash and burn of the US.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
4:12 pm
“Its the math that gets them!”
You mean like comparing 2 minutes on Fox to 18 hours on MSNBC, Finn?
Oh, right. That’s just arithmetic you don’t understand . . . .
Dusty
May 30th, 2012
4:13 pm
Finn,
You don’t believe in equality , do you? If we are to be treated equally in the USA, everybody pays taxes by the same rates. Money belongs to the people that made it or got it legally. It does not belong to anybody else, including the government.
I don’t know how you got so far from the basic tenants of American government which were founded on God, liberty and equality. I hope you are the exception.
I want to keep our basic values and not some pretense of being nice zombies spoon fed by government. It is a killer effort for our country as a free nation.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
May 30th, 2012
4:14 pm
Tiberius, I believe Sesame Street is on now.
….maybe the Count will be on today – just for you!
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
4:18 pm
You’re the one who doesn’t know the difference between 2 minutes and 18 hours, Finn.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
May 30th, 2012
4:19 pm
Dusty, the unfairness is what I’m complaining about!
(Finn bangs head against brick wall.)
What part of this do you think is fair?:
I have 85% of my income to spend any way I want. The other guy only has 75% of his income to spend any way he wants.
md
May 30th, 2012
4:20 pm
“I have 85% of my income to spend any way I want. The other guy only has 75% of his income to spend any way he wants.”
And the other guy always has the option to go get more……..and not from someone else.
Don't Tread
May 30th, 2012
4:22 pm
Liberals don’t believe in God, equality, and especially liberty. More like atheism, “fairness”, and socialism, which is why they are attempting to destroy the principles on which this country was founded and replace it with their own set of “values”.
Hillbilly D
May 30th, 2012
4:23 pm
I still say the thing to do is tax all forms of income at the same rate and tax everybody the same. Get rid of all the loopholes, credits and subsidies and everybody pays a set %. Hopefully, I’m going to live a good while longer but I’ll never live long enough to see that happen. I may be eccentric but I ain’t naive.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
May 30th, 2012
4:23 pm
Ok, tiberius, I’ll play.
1. Fox is a so-called news channel that runs 24 hours a day.
2. MSNBC is a so-called news channel that runs 24 hours a day (not sure where you got the 18 hour day…in my world a day is 24 hours.)
1. Fox leans conservative for all 24 hours.
2. MSNBC leans liberal for all 24 hours.
1. FOX creates it’s own political ad to run any 2 minutes during that 24 hour period. Likely, multiple times.
2. MSNBC creates…..umm. Hmmm
Can you comprehend the difference now? Didn’t think so.
md
May 30th, 2012
4:24 pm
Well Finn…….should a student that studies 24/7, does no partying and makes all A’s have to share those A’s with a student that parties 24/7, does no studying and makes all F’s??
Too often, folks like you discount all the other variables in the equation……….
ld
May 30th, 2012
4:25 pm
(sarcasm alert)
How can you even suggest there aren’t enough jobs; after all the Bush tax cuts haved been prompting the creation of new jobs hand over fist for a long while now, huh?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
May 30th, 2012
4:26 pm
And the other guy always has the option to go get more……..and not from someone else.
OMG, you too md?
Getting “More” money is not the point!!!!!!! It’s the percentage on each $1 (one dollar) you are expecting each of them to pay!!!
md
May 30th, 2012
4:31 pm
“Getting “More” money is not the point!!!!!!! It’s the percentage on each $1 (one dollar) you are expecting each of them to pay!!!”
No, that’s not about fairness…..that’s about your perception of fairness. I have members of my own family that choose…..note that word…..choose to not work more than they absolutely have to to just get by…….and they get money “back” from the badly named “earned income credit”…..so tell me Finn…….what is fair about people choosing to NOT pay taxes??
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
May 30th, 2012
4:32 pm
ok, md, i’ll play and use a similar analogy to yours.
A guy who sits in an office trading money has to share 15% of every dollar he makes with all the other Americans.
A guy who digs ditches for a living has to share 18%-28% of what he makes with all the other Americans.
Can you comprehend which personis actually giving up MORE of his hard earned money?
Dusty
May 30th, 2012
4:34 pm
Finn,
The fairness starts in the beginning. That is why we have a constitution to keep our country one of justice and equality.
No one can guarantee results. We can only start fairly. That is why so many want to come to America. They know they will get a fair start.
Likewise,most of us try to do the best we can for our children. We try to be equal and fair and good parents. But the outcomes are unpredictable even with the best of efforts. But we do the best we can to give them a good start but they grow into adults with minds of their own. That get freedom, for better or worse.
That is the way our government works. It cannot guarantee equal outcomes. The communist tried to make it so until death and freedom went kaput. Nazis tried to favor the “best” but not the rest and terror came.
Government is our protector in many ways but it is not our life director. Let us not give it that power.
Jefferson
May 30th, 2012
4:34 pm
Progressive income taxes are the most fair. Not fair, neither is income.
Jack
May 30th, 2012
4:35 pm
Working-age people without a job didn’t prepare well.
@@
May 30th, 2012
4:36 pm
Hillbilly:
I still say the thing to do is tax all forms of income at the same rate and tax everybody the same. Get rid of all the loopholes, credits and subsidies and everybody pays a set %.
I read THAT!!!!
(ISH)
It would remove sooooooooooo much power from politicians. We couldn’t be used, one against the other.
md
May 30th, 2012
4:36 pm
“A guy who sits in an office trading money has to share 15% of every dollar he makes with all the other Americans.
A guy who digs ditches for a living has to share 18%-28% of what he makes with all the other Americans.”
And again, you miss the point……..the other variables in the equation include things like choices. The guy sitting at the desk and the guy digging that ditch choose to be doing so…….and therefore are making the choice of compensation……..
Teachers aren’t paid very well in my opinion, but every one of them know that going in…….and that is how the game is played…….want more, then make the choice to go get more……otherwise, quit bitching about what one doesn’t get.
We choose everything we do…………
JDW
May 30th, 2012
4:37 pm
@Rafe…”So, blowing a terrorist and occasionally their families and friends up with a drone strike, without proof or trial, is better than waterboarding them? ”
Yep. One is an Act of War. The other torture of a prisoner.
Hillbilly D
May 30th, 2012
4:41 pm
It would remove sooooooooooo much power from politicians.
It would remove a lot of business for lawyers and accountants, too. That’s another reason it won’t happen.
@@
May 30th, 2012
4:41 pm
I can now lay claim to having plucked a chicken. One feather left in a grocery bird.
I have arrived!
(ISH)
JDW
May 30th, 2012
4:42 pm
@Dusty…”A smart idea in almost all circumstances.”
Boy you are delusional…how did that turn out for us? BTW, the CIA and British Intelligence had no input on how to wage a counter terrorism war inside the US, that was Clarke’s job. Why in fact I think it is Constitutionally prohibited for the CIA to operate inside the US. I think you are confusing WMD’s with Osama Bin Laden.
@@
May 30th, 2012
4:43 pm
Hillbilly:
The lawyers could always run for office…their second CAREER choice.
Kyle Wingfield
May 30th, 2012
4:43 pm
Finn @ 4:19: Given that the U.S. has the most progressive tax code in the industrialized world, I can only infer that “the other guy” earns more than you. Are you suggesting we cut his tax rate?
md
May 30th, 2012
4:44 pm
“Yep. One is an Act of War. The other torture of a prisoner.”
Yet we as a society seem to have no problem when we waterboard our own troops during training to prepare them for the worst case scenario.
Nor do we seem to be outraged about using electric shock on our own citizens or police forces when we incorporate the use of tasers on a daily basis…….
All this fake outrage about waterboarding is a bunch of bull dookey……..
It’s kin to all the war protests against Bush that have for the most part shriveled up and blown away as Obama continues with the same behavior………
JDW
May 30th, 2012
4:45 pm
@Tiberius…”I understand the market forces far, far better than you can ever comprehend”
Hillbilly D
May 30th, 2012
4:46 pm
The lawyers could always run for office…
Too many of them already have.
I can now lay claim to having plucked a chicken.
You bought a chicken that still had the feathers? Oh well, scalding is the worst part of it. (ISH)
JDW
May 30th, 2012
4:47 pm
@MD…”Yet we as a society seem to have no problem when we waterboard our own troops during training to prepare them for the worst case scenario.”
We ask them first and they, for the most part, bravely consent.
“Nor do we seem to be outraged about using electric shock on our own citizens or police forces when we incorporate the use of tasers on a daily basis”
I suppose you prefer real bullets?
Don Abernethy
May 30th, 2012
4:49 pm
I am in the process of making some major changes in the way we have to live if Obama is re-elected. Unfortunately there is no place to move to in the world that is any better than the US. But if Obama is re-elected those of us who are seniors will have to make some major changes to survive.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
4:50 pm
Actually, Finn, if you’d ever watch Fox News, you’d see that they run NEWS programs from 5:00 a.m. through 4:00 p.m. (always having liberals and conservatives debating issues when political), then Cavuto comes on. It is a financial NEWS program that does have conservative opinion on it. Then at 5:00 p.m. The Five comes on. That panel is weighted towards conservatives, but ALWAYS contains at least one liberal (something MSNBC does not do). At 6:00 is Special Report, which received the best rating for actual fair and balanced NEWS coverage during the 2008 campaign by the Center for Media and Public Affairs. At 7:00 p.m. is hard NEWS with the Fox Report. Only at 8:00 p.m. comes the three opinion shows Fox runs, and they only run until 11:00 in their original broadcasts.
On MSNBC, the day begins with Morning Joe at 6:00 a.m., with a revolving panel of liberal columnists and hosts outnumbering conservative commentators by 3 or 4 to 1. There are NO hard NEWS programs for the rest of the day; only opinion programs with uber-liberal hosts like Alex Wagner, Chris Matthews, Rachel Maddow, Martin Bashir, Lawrence O’Donnell, Andrea Mitchell (although she tries hard at times to be objective), Al Sharpton and of course Ed Schultz.
At night, both networks recycle certain programs, with the exception of Red Eye on Fox at 3:00 a.m. and MSNBC does some paid programming early mornings.
So your one-note “Fox is biased” screed is debunked with facts. But then, reality isn’t your strong suit, is it?
md
May 30th, 2012
4:50 pm
“I suppose you prefer real bullets?”
That is called an excuse or justification for an action……..so as I said, the outrage vanishes depending on the excuse.
Either it’s wrong or it’s right……picking and choosing is so bogus.
@@
May 30th, 2012
4:51 pm
Finn:
Napkin Notes on the Art of Living: I use this book as one of my reference books on Life, rereading it periodically to remind myself of its points. It’s wise, funny, comforting and makes one intensely angry and prone to argue against what it has to say… out loud.
The basic premise of the book is that we’re responsible for everything that happens to us. Step off a curb and get hit by a truck? We’re responsible. People push our buttons? Whose buttons are they? Ours. We’re responsible.
The part I used to argue with (I’ve read the book so many times I “get it” now so have ceased arguing with it) was the simplicity of Durst’s arguments. He compares us to giant tubes and Wurlitzer machines and shows how we often choose to be actors in the cheaper, more melodramatic shows of Life. It’s not a flattering picture.
Read it! Absorb it! Live it!
md
May 30th, 2012
4:51 pm
“We ask them first and they, for the most part, bravely consent.”
Sorry, but our military doesn’t “ask” the ranks if they “want” to do anything……..the operative word is “tell”……..
JDW
May 30th, 2012
4:53 pm
@Don Abernethy…”But if Obama is re-elected those of us who are seniors will have to make some major changes to survive.”
I think you are confused Don. It’s Ryan and the Republicans that want to end Medicare as we know it and reduce Social Security. Vote for the President to keep the investments you made in those programs over the years as secure as possible.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
4:55 pm
“So, blowing a terrorist and occasionally their families and friends up with a drone strike, without proof or trial, is better than waterboarding them? ”
Yep. One is an Act of War. The other torture of a prisoner.”
Actually, JDW, the correct answer is that one is permanent and one is temporary.
You can always recover from a waterboarding.
Me, I’m still wondering when the Nobel Committee is going to ask for their Peace Prize back from the first U.S. President to have a kill list complete with playing cards. You know, the one where there has been no trial or due process?
JDW
May 30th, 2012
4:55 pm
@Tiberius…WOW you know the Faux News schedule by heart…that explains a lot.
NPR Listeners=Informed…Faux News not so much…
http://reason.com/blog/2012/05/23/survey-says-npr-listeners-least-uninform
JDW
May 30th, 2012
4:56 pm
@Tiberius…”one is permanent and one is temporary.”
I have no problem with that whatsoever. In fact I prefer it.
Dusty
May 30th, 2012
4:58 pm
JDW,
I am talking about the entire war on terrorism which started with bin Laden and culumated with the attack of 9/11. WMDs were still a part of it. Bush did all he could to protect us, from homeland terrorists to wmds which would disrupt not only the USA but the entire world.
If you are so determined to justify one man’s rejected opinion against the president of the USA with all security systems reporting to him, then go for it. You continue the war on Bush instead of the best for our country. We have been protected! Bush was for all Americans, not for just one political party, as you are.
JDW
May 30th, 2012
4:58 pm
@MD…”Sorry, but our military doesn’t “ask” the ranks if they “want” to do anything”
Check the enlistment papers.
MarkV
May 30th, 2012
5:03 pm
Dusty @ 4:13 pm: “If we are to be treated equally in the USA, everybody pays taxes by the same rates.”
Unfortunately, this kind of simplistic thinking is all too common.
JDW
May 30th, 2012
5:06 pm
@Dusty…”You continue the war on Bush instead of the best for our country. ”
I believe that Bush was the worst President this country has ever known and by in large the Presidential Scholar Community agrees with that assessment.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/07/01/nations-leading-presidential-scholars-bush-worst-president-modern-era-5th-worst-history/
That said I believe that when people, such as yourself, want to gloss over that truth and make irrational statements like…
“Having an honest, strong, dependable, patriotic, hard-working, ethical president again will certainly be refreshing”
it is my duty, on behalf of the well being of the country, to counter those arguments to my last breath.
Now if you want to talk about what’s good for the country I am all for it, as long as we are clear Bush and anyone like him are BAD FOR THE COUNTRY.
Dusty
May 30th, 2012
5:07 pm
Dear chicken plucking @@,
I hope you enjoy your chicken. My husband plucked one with the hot water and smell and couldn’t eat chicken for many months after that. He’s “chicken” about plucking chickens!
Sorry to hear about Victor Hill, your reinvigorated possible sherriff or something. Have hope. Maybe Cynthia McKinney will name him as her vice president in the Green Party.
Now I go to eat chicken & noodles. I’m not “chicken”. Pass me a wing!
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
5:07 pm
JDW, if you had actually taken the time to notice (which you never do), I pretty much showed I know BOTH cable news outlets pretty well.
What is your point?
md
May 30th, 2012
5:09 pm
“It’s Ryan and the Republicans that want to end Medicare as we know it and reduce Social Security. Vote for the President to keep the investments you made in those programs over the years as secure as possible.”
If the programs are no longer viable as is, common sense dictates making changes vs doing nothing.
Much like a company in trouble……makes more sense for all to take a pay cut or cut a percentage of the workforce vs allowing ALL to go down with a sinking ship.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
5:10 pm
“Unfortunately, this kind of simplistic thinking is all too common.”
Yeah, MaryV, because true equality, rather than pitting one class of people against another based on envy, is just so damned passe.
@@
May 30th, 2012
5:14 pm
For all the twits out there.
Oops! Now You Can Track the Tweets Politicians Tried to Delete
Not sure why anyone would care, but then there ARE those with nuthin’ else to do.
schnirt
Dusty
May 30th, 2012
5:16 pm
MarkV
You do your simplistic thinking and I will do mine. That sounds fair enough.
JDW will join you as soon as he recovers from his hate Bush attack
Cheers! I’m off to the joys of juicy gems and simplistic sauces. Delightful!
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
5:16 pm
“I believe that Bush was the worst President this country has ever known and by in large the Presidential Scholar Community agrees with that assessment.”
Gee. . . Presidential Scholars . . . where would we find them . . . ?
Maybe in institutions proven to be populated with a 90+% liberal mentality, maybe?
Not exactly objective, are we, JDW?
md
May 30th, 2012
5:17 pm
“as long as we are clear Bush and anyone like him are BAD FOR THE COUNTRY.”
I can’t give much credence to a group of scholars that do not take the element of time into account when doing a ranking. It is still too early to rank any President within the past 10-20 years without seeing the full effect of their policies/actions…..and that includes Obama.
In another 20-30 years, the landscape around the globe may be very different due to the actions of our country, and one is jumping the gun to assume how it may play out.
235 more days
May 30th, 2012
5:18 pm
Warren Gets Swift Boated
Cherokees to Elizabeth Warren: ‘We don’t claim you
Jefferson
May 30th, 2012
5:18 pm
Kyle, I suggest to you the reason the US has such a strong middle class is due to the “most progressive tax in the industrialized world”. This is not a bad thing.
JDW
May 30th, 2012
5:18 pm
@Tiberius…”What is your point?”
My point is that Faux News is anything but “Fair and Balanced” and there is a mountain of data to support that. Is MSNBC..no…but they don’t purport to be.
Hillbilly D
May 30th, 2012
5:21 pm
In another 20-30 years, the landscape around the globe may be very different due to the actions of our country, and one is jumping the gun to assume how it may play out.
My personal opinion is it takes 30-40 years to look at a President’s stay in office, objectively. A lot of things don’t follow election cycles as to how they wind up. What looks good or bad today, often looks different with the perspective that time gives.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
5:22 pm
“My point is that Faux News is anything but “Fair and Balanced” and there is a mountain of data to support that.”
Then please provide such data, JDW. I’d love to see something objective from you.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
5:23 pm
“Kyle, I suggest to you the reason the US has such a strong middle class is due to the “most progressive tax in the industrialized world”.”
But according to you libs, Jefferson, the middle class is not only hurting, it’s shrinking.
Can’t have it both ways, son, no matter how hard you try.
@@
May 30th, 2012
5:25 pm
There are times when I watch O’Reilly and think…
that guy’s kinda liberal.
I know Silly Shep Smith is.
@@
May 30th, 2012
5:26 pm
But according to you libs, Jefferson, the middle class is not only hurting, it’s shrinking.
Had the same thought when I read Jefferson’s post.
JDW
May 30th, 2012
5:26 pm
@Tiberius…”Maybe in institutions proven to be populated with a 90+% liberal mentality, maybe?”
So all 238 preeminent Presidential Scholars are liberal…
“Not exactly objective, are we, JDW?”
Facts are facts…not much objective to it…the people that devoted their lives to studying the effectiveness of Presidents are credible enough for me. However, I am sure that in your world all of their preparation and study is trumped by your unique understanding…
Hillbilly D
May 30th, 2012
5:27 pm
Are Presidential scholars divided into major and minor like historians?
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
5:31 pm
“So all 238 preeminent Presidential Scholars are liberal”
Your words, not mine, JDW.
And what you are quoting are not “facts”, but “opinion”, JDW.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
5:31 pm
Where’s josef when you need him, Hillbilly D?
Hillbilly D
May 30th, 2012
5:36 pm
Tiberius
Couldn’t resist that one.
MarkV
May 30th, 2012
5:38 pm
Dusty@5:16 pm: “You do your simplistic thinking and I will do mine. “
Au contraire, only your thinking in this natter is simplistic. Without going into details, just a simple question: Most developed, industrialized countries (including, naturally, the US) have progressive tax systems – people with higher income paying according to higher tax rates. With only a few exceptions, countries with a flat tax system you think is the right one are the former Soviet bloc countries. Who do you think is likely to have a better idea?
@@
May 30th, 2012
5:39 pm
If oil prices continue to fall, enjoy the lower gas prices for all that they are worth, because most experts agree this will indicate that recession is around the corner. After all, oil demand has always been a key indicator of economic growth. A booming economy demands more oil, a shrinking economy reduces its consumption.
Jeff Rubin, former chief economist for CIBC World Markets, told Canadian media that the danger of cheap oil is that it will mean much slower economic growth in the future, noting that “oil prices plunged to $40 a barrel in the last recession.”
The bottom line is that this is as good as it’s going to get, one way or another, and cheaper gas at the pumps doesn’t necessarily translate into good times. It’s all relative.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/47618587
I was at some leftwing site the other day where they were celebrating unemployment. The fewer drivers on the road, the less harm to the environment.
The silver lining thingy?
md
May 30th, 2012
5:42 pm
“Facts are facts…”
Which is why it takes time…….30 years from now, Iraq may be the preeminent democracy in the middle east, leading the way for a group of democracies in the area……vs Israel being the lone ranger as they have been for so long. And guess how the folks in that area may then remember one GWB…….
Or, the ME implodes at the hands of radicals and GWB and Obama together shoulder the burden of blame for their actions………..
A scholar worth his/her weight would know that……….
ragnar danneskjold
May 30th, 2012
5:44 pm
As with all leftist “solutions,” the cure has been more damaging than the evil they sought to remedy.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
5:46 pm
“Who do you think is likely to have a better idea?”
People who one lived under the yoke of tyranny, MaryV.
They can actually appreciate the true meaning of the word “fair”, where liberals cannot.
md
May 30th, 2012
5:51 pm
“As with all leftist “solutions,” the cure has been more damaging than the evil they sought to remedy.”
And one need look no further than the credit card bill passed when the dems had all the numbers…..for those that say socialism isn’t here, one should look at the bill.
All it did was screw the responsible card holders in favor of the irresponsible card holders…..and raised the rates of all. Yet many on the left still think it was for a good cause……..
Kyle Wingfield
May 30th, 2012
6:01 pm
MarkV: For the record, the flat taxes in the former Soviet bloc came well after the fall of communism, and at the recommendation of economists from the developed, industrialized countries to which you referred.
MarkV
May 30th, 2012
6:15 pm
Kyle Wingfield @6:01 pm: “For the record, the flat taxes in the former Soviet bloc came well after the fall of communism, and at the recommendation of economists from the developed, industrialized countries to which you referred.”
Kyle,
Thank you for enlightening me. I would not have guessed that whatever happened in the FORMER Soviet bloc happened AFTER the fall of communism.
DannyX
May 30th, 2012
6:52 pm
LOL at this quote from the Romney campaign today defending Romney’s poor jobs record while governor of Massachusetts…
“Governor Romney inherited an economy that was losing jobs each month and left office with an economy that was adding jobs each month.”
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
6:56 pm
“and at the recommendation of economists from the developed, industrialized countries to which you referred.”
Even I figured out what Kyle was trying to get across past your thick skull, MaryV.
The obvious was lost on you, however.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
6:58 pm
Adding jobs in a state that has what most economists consider full employment, DannyX, is quite the accomplishment.
Even if you don’t get it.
And where’s your pithy response to my analysis of Massachusetts electoral politics from a couple of hours ago?
DannyX
May 30th, 2012
7:07 pm
“And where’s your pithy response to my analysis of Massachusetts electoral politics from a couple of hours ago?”
I read it, it was nonsense. Not worth a reply.
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
7:18 pm
You mean you read it, didn’t understand it, and couldn’t reply, don’t you, DannyX?
Depth of argument is unattainable for you libs, isn’t it?
But since you at least bothered to answer me, please feel free to tell me which specific parts of it you didn’t agree with, or deemed “nonsense”.
Dusty
May 30th, 2012
7:18 pm
I am not for a flat tax system. I am for equal “rates” on income of all people. That to me is equal and fair, the way most Republicans operate.
Can’t worry about such things right now. The Braves are ready to WIN this game. Go BRAVES!
Tiberius - Banned from Bookman's and proud of it!
May 30th, 2012
7:33 pm
Dusty, equal rates on income for everyone IS a flat tax system.
Just sayin’.
@@
May 30th, 2012
7:59 pm
Humans Can Sniff Out Old Age in Others, Study Shows
WEDNESDAY, May 30 (HealthDay News) — How old do you think you smell? A new study suggests that humans possess the ability to judge whether a person has reached their senior years just by sniffing their body odor.
Government funded?
What purpose does a study like ^^^ that serve? HECK! Even without benefit of a fabricated fragrance, (cologne, perfume, deodorant) men smell different than women.
JDW
May 30th, 2012
9:30 pm
@tiberius…”And what you are quoting are not “facts”, but “opinion”, JDW.”
No the fact is that the people that study President’s for a living agree Bush was the worst. Your opinion may differ but facts are facts.
Solutions
May 30th, 2012
9:55 pm
Dusty, there were robots at the grocery store and at the gas station: The self scanners are a form of robot, as are the self serve pumps.
Solutions
May 30th, 2012
9:57 pm
@@ – Old men smell like urine due to their enlarged prostates, it is inevitable, leading directly to dripping!
Dusty
May 30th, 2012
10:32 pm
Tiberius, 7:33
I thought those candidates advocating “flat tax” wanted to abolish income tax and apply taxes to everything bought, sold, etc. I only want equal percentages on income tax.
I don’t know much the policies of those “flat-tax” politicians. Did not plan to vote for them.
Dusty
May 30th, 2012
10:45 pm
Solutions 9:55,
I want robots to look like robots, those cute things they show on space movies. R-2 & D-2, for example. Or those scary things like Robo-Cop. Gas pumps don’t count!
MarkV
June 1st, 2012
4:44 pm
Dusty @4:14 pm
“I said that I thought that the news was bad for Obama, the country and Georgia. Since Obama is the president, don’t you think it is logical to include him?”
I did not protest including Obama. I referred to your order of words: “a very bad 12 hours”. for Obama ( and Georgia and the rest of the USA).
“Then I ask YOU a question and you replied by saying you did not say that. Please! I said it. It was a question for you.”
Dusty @2:54: ”Are you trying to say that all this bad news is really good news and the country is doing exceedingly well under President Obama? “
Don’t play coy, Dusty. You intimated (“Are you trying to say….?”) that I had said something about the country doing exceedingly well under President Obama. I did not. As a matter of fact, had you read my post on May 30th, 2012 @2:55 pm, you would have seen that I wrote there that in my view the situation was at least as bad as Kyle wrote about, if not worse. However, if you start writing about “under President Obama,” I will start writing about what happened “under President Bush.”
MarkV
June 1st, 2012
4:48 pm
My apologies. Posted to the wrong blog.
davetv
June 2nd, 2012
2:43 am
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