There’s austerity in Europe, all right — of the taxing sort
The austerity debate is back, with American liberals pointing to shrinking European economies as evidence against the wisdom of cutting government spending here.
Typical is this argument from a column by the New York Times’ Paul Krugman last month: “Europe has had several years of experience with harsh austerity programs, and the results are exactly what students of history told you would happen: such programs push depressed economies even deeper into depression.”
Indeed, nine of the European Union’s 27 member-countries were in technical recession by the end of 2011 or the first quarter of 2012 (not all countries report first-quarter data at the same time).
There’s just one problem: There have been no such austerity programs, at least not of the type Krugman and other liberals warn against.
In five of the nine recessionary countries, governments cut spending in 2011. In four, they didn’t. There were another three European countries in which public spending fell without triggering a recession.
Britain, considered a poster child for the hazards of austerity, hasn’t cut spending at all. It did, however, raise the top marginal tax rate: by 10 percentage points in 2010 and an additional 1 point last year.
In fact, the EU’s recessionary countries were just as likely to have raised taxes in 2011 as to have cut spending.
The hardest-hit countries — Greece, Portugal and Spain — did both. These countries are the only ones in Europe that can truthfully say they’ve embraced austerity. Unless, that is, you count Iceland, which returned to robust growth last year despite cutting spending by more than 5 percent.
Yet, in both Portugal and Spain, the tax hikes were larger, percentage-wise, than the spending cuts. So, who’s to say the changes in spending, rather than taxes, are to blame?
What about Ireland, you may ask. Hasn’t the famed “Celtic Tiger” of the 1990s and early 2000s been declawed during the past few years?
Ireland has dipped into recession, and it did cut spending by a whopping 27 percent last year. Of course, it increased spending by an even more whopping 33 percent in 2010 — leaving public expenditures just slightly below the levels in the previous couple of years.
What has changed significantly in Ireland are tax rates. Spending was 1 percent lower in 2011 than in 2008, but the top marginal tax rate — the rate applied to an earner’s next euro of income — rose 17 percent. Again, why should we accept it’s the spending, not the taxing, that has pushed Ireland’s economy down?
One more thing you won’t hear from the anti-austerity crowd is that the tax hikes have not had their intended effects. Britain, for instance, is lowering its top tax rate again after no more than two-fifths of the projected new revenues materialized. All that the higher rate achieved, treasury chief George Osborne noted, was for high-earning Britons to move their money around and change their behavior to avoid the higher rates.
These distortions — which themselves could explain some of the U.K. economy’s troubles — weren’t worth the new revenues that were realized, Osborne explained.
That’s one more thing for Americans to keep in mind as they hear about the policies we should or shouldn’t import from Europe.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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561 comments Add your comment
@@
May 6th, 2012
1:27 pm
say what…@ 11:11:
des·per·ate: No brickbat too small.
What is it you leftists always say? Lighten up “pantless”.
It was a joke.
The tree died of transplant shock. I could have fun with that one too…but since you’re thick, I’ll refrain.
AmVet
May 6th, 2012
1:28 pm
“greedy, irresponsible Democrats who bought a house they couldn’t afford and then chose not to pay their bills.”
Which, of course, explains the massive number of foreclosed properties in Woodstock, Acworth, Cumming, John’s Creek, Milton, Duluth, Suwanee and lots and lots of other dead red bedroom communities.
Lil one, do you even think before you post???
saywhat?
May 6th, 2012
1:31 pm
tib proven wrong, AGAIN, this time re: congressman West.
Predictable, yet he never gets tired of it. But then again, neither do we.
Mary Elizabeth
May 6th, 2012
1:52 pm
AmVet, 1:32 pm, May 5
“Thanks Mary E!
I believe that volunteering – something I have done since I was a 19 year old kid, stationed at MacDill AFB, helping out at the Tampa Lighthouse for the Blind – is a sacred duty. Especially when kids are the beneficiaries! And why I spent years as a leader in the Cub and Boy Scouts.
It allows me, in a small way, to give back to this country, which has given me everything I have! And frankly, the reward is having fun doing it!
And thanks for reposting that link!”
====================================
You bet, AmVet! I remained impressed with your commitment to others.
Mary Elizabeth
May 6th, 2012
1:58 pm
Just saying. . ., 11:53 am
“Thanks, Mary Elizabeth. I just didn’t have the time, and you did better than I would have anyway.”
===================================
Thanks for the positive comment, Just saying. I understand your not having the time to read it all; it was a long one, to say the least!
And, don’t be so sure I would post better than you.
Just saying..
May 6th, 2012
2:15 pm
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 6th, 2012
1:04 pm
WNC mtns for me.
But I’d guess we’re all going for the same reason.
“Already there.
Gonna rain Tuesday and Wednesday and get cooler”
Cooler works, but rain’s no help for house painting. Think I’ll get funny looks pressure washing in the rain?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 6th, 2012
2:23 pm
Just saying..
Wait until Thursday. It’s still supposed to be cool, but clear with sunshine.
Just saying..
May 6th, 2012
2:28 pm
@@
May 6th, 2012
1:27 pm
say what…@ 11:11:
des·per·ate: No brickbat too small.
What is it you leftists always say? Lighten up “pantless”.
It was a joke.
The tree died of transplant shock. I could have fun with that one too…but since you’re thick, I’ll refrain.
Not sure if Say What or I should be more offended..
It was more a comment on the reach for pebbles rather than rocks.
But ok, it was funny. No doubt we need a new Arborist-in-Chief…
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
May 6th, 2012
2:30 pm
Link that shows voting patterns in terms of foreclosures
———-
No need for that. It’s by definition. People who don’t pay their bills are Democrats.
Just saying..
May 6th, 2012
2:32 pm
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 6th, 2012
2:23 pm
Just saying..
Wait until Thursday. It’s still supposed to be cool, but clear with sunshine.
Heaven on earth.
@@
May 6th, 2012
2:40 pm
Just sayin…Say what…
What…….EVAH!!!!!
Dusty
May 6th, 2012
2:43 pm
Well, I may do my part for “austerity”.(That’s the subject here, isn’t it?)
A friendly neighborhood business gave all us customers a big tray of TOMATO plants. No wanting to be unappreciative, I took mine home. Talk about “relocation shock”, everything I have ever planted had relocation shock.
I’ve planted tomatoes that produced one or two little red ping pong balls, supposedly tomatoes. Those were the ones that lived. That was a season’s crop. Green beans became beetlecondos. LIttle green things burrowed in my yellow squash. Cucumbers did grow but I hate cucumbers. Never ruin a salad with cucumbers!
IN the meantime, weeds thrive like Topsy. “Things” four feet tall spring out of nowhere. Grass tough as whit-leather suddenly develops in every corner. Dandelions seem to bloom overnight.
But, I shall do my part. Shhhh…There is a community garden nearby that may take in orphans. At some quiet hour, I shall go sleathily with baby basket of tomato plants and leave them on the garden step. Yes!
Do not “rat” on me. I shall suffer quietly in the aftermath of”relocation shock” and cry on my pillow. In the meantime, off to the store. I need a few tomatoes.
Rafe Hollister
May 6th, 2012
2:46 pm
Where he proved just how well the cons have perfected the art of shrewdly playing “I was out of the loop” stupid!
Amvet
Are you that peeved at Eric Holder, who has been stonewalling congress for nigh on two years now regarding Fast and Furious, Oblamer’s Watergate like cover-up.
@@
May 6th, 2012
2:53 pm
Dusty:
Dandelion greens make an excellent salad.
If they’re doing that well (blooming overnight) consider yourself a master gardener.
It’s true what they say…gardening is 90% trial and error and 10% knowledge.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 6th, 2012
2:59 pm
I’ve planted tomatoes that produced one or two little red ping pong balls, supposedly tomatoes.
Don’t put a $5 plant in a $0.05 hole.
Dig a deep and wide hole and fill the hole with enough Miracle Grow soil that you don’t bury the plant any deeper than when it was in the tray.
Mix Miracle grow crystals with water as per the directions and liberally water all your plants.
Dusty
May 6th, 2012
3:02 pm
Thanks, @@
I might try dandelion salad. If I spring up overnight after eating it, I’ll call you.
AmVet
May 6th, 2012
3:07 pm
I have never heard the term “representative democracy” until you brought it up.
That you haven’t doesn’t mean much.
Examples of representative democracy include all contemporary constitutional democracies, at the national level.
In the U.S.A., the fifty states and most local governments, as well as the national government, are representative democracies.
http://www.proconservative.net/CUNAPolSci201PartTwoD.shtml
That you don’t accept what you don’t want to know, does.
Holder strikes me as another highly flawed AG along the lines of Mitchell Palmer, John Mitchell, Edwin Meese, Janet Reno, John Ashcroft and Alberto Gonzales.
All horrific examples of people who were charged with being the top law enforcement officer and lawyer for the government.
Dusty
May 6th, 2012
3:10 pm
Thank you, Kamchak.
I can tell you have a “green thumb”. My thumb is allergic to digging big holes! I can’t really blame my poor tomato plants.
But you have inspired me. Perhaps I shall plant a few of my “gifts” in big holes with puddles of Miracle Grow and stand back and watch them grow! (Are you sure that will work?)
I have tried “drafting” strong family members to dig holes but they make a getaway every time. Do you have any success with that?
Dusty
May 6th, 2012
3:16 pm
hmmm
I think AmVet needs some dandelion salad. Might make him spring up a bit. He’s always feeling might low.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 6th, 2012
3:18 pm
Dusty
I get Better Boy tomato plants from Lowes that are in a plantable container about 6″ in diameter and 6″ deep so I dig a hole at least 12″ in diameter and 12″ deep. Last year was my best crop, with consistently round sweet tomatoes. I had some Beefsteak tomatoes that grew in odd shapes and sizes so I’m gonna forgo that variety this year.
yuzeyurbrane
May 6th, 2012
3:19 pm
Kyle, you hit a winner on this topic.
AmVet
May 6th, 2012
3:19 pm
I think Dusty needs some lovin’. She seems to be constantly obsessed with me!
Love me some Reagan
May 6th, 2012
3:22 pm
“No need for that. It’s by definition. People who don’t pay their bills are Democrats.”
translation: I can’t back up my assertions within anything except more rhetoric, hyperbole and talking points but I like being uniformed and I’m a ok with it
Love me some Reagan
May 6th, 2012
3:24 pm
“without anything………………”
Excuse me
Hillbilly D
May 6th, 2012
4:02 pm
Haven’t seen much worth commenting about in the last few days but I’m always willing to talk about ‘maters. My methods are a tad different than some folks. Sometimes I grow my own plants and sometimes, I just plant the seeds in the ground. Works pretty good for me. I dig a hole about a foot or so deep, put in 3-4 good handfuls of pelletized lime, throw some dirt back in (this is like cooking, no exact measurements) mix the lime in good, throw in a little more dirt, put in some fertilizer, sort of lightly, more dirt and mix, then more dirt and about a spoon full of epsom salts, then mix it and put your plant or seeds on the top. It’ll need about an inch of rain, or equivalent watering, although natural rain is better but we can’t control that.
I agree with Kamchak that the hole and what goes in it is more important than the plant. Better Boys are a pretty good variety and they fit most people’s taste. I like a sharper tomato than that but that’s all in the taste buds of the beholder.
And if you have a space problem, you can plant them in a 5 gallon bucket. Poke you a few holes in the bottom of the bucket, so water can drain out. Nothing tastes quite so good as a homegrown ‘mater and especially if you grew it yourself.
SBinF
May 6th, 2012
4:04 pm
What’s your solution, Kyle? Cut spending? Lower taxes for the highest earners?
Where do you suggest cuts be made?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
May 6th, 2012
4:34 pm
The biggest problem is spending. It’s also the most difficult to get politicians to fix.
The revenue problem is temporary and will fix itself when the economy recovers and Obozo departs. Pardon the redundancy.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
May 6th, 2012
4:49 pm
Nothing tastes quite so good as a homegrown ‘mater and especially if you grew it yourself.
On some slices of bread with thick sliced bacon and lettuce, maybe some deli sliced turkey breast, sliced roast beef from Sunday dinner, or even homemade chicken salad.
Dusty
May 6th, 2012
5:48 pm
Hillbilly and Kamchak,
You tomato planters have inspired me. I went out and looked at my “orphans” and they are BEEFMASTER it says. I poured water all over them as they were sitting in the sun. But I hope to try something with them tomorrow….although I’ll be gone much of the day. I’m keeping your good instructions in mind.
Anyway, thanks for all the wonderful suggestions. And…I am very hungry for a fine tomato sandwich. May have to settle for Kroger-grown.
Such a good afternoon..and the BRAVES are winning 6-2 in the eighth. I think they are going to win another one. GO Braves! GROW tomatoes!!!
Rafe Hollister
May 6th, 2012
7:00 pm
United States Constitution
Art. 4 Sec. 4 Par. 1
“The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican form of Government.”
Pledge of Allegiance – “I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands …”
Third, consider the Electoral college.
Just three little things that protect us from you and the Dems design to transfer us into this “representative democracy”.
Who does the electoral college represent? They were put there so that if the states went all wiggly on us and tried to elect someone off base, the electoral college voters were free to override the nonsense. No one was ever guaranteed a right to vote for president by the constitution, that decision was left to the states, so how is that for democracy.
I get the feeling that “representative democracy” is just a trojan horse the left would like to create for their own benefit.
Rafe Hollister
May 6th, 2012
7:05 pm
Ben Franklin, responding to a woman who asked, upon his exit from Constitutional Hall, “what kind of government have you given us?”
He reportedly responded, “A republic if you can keep it”.
Seems conservatives have been fighting to keep it ever since.
Zebra
May 6th, 2012
7:18 pm
Seems conservatives have been fighting to turn it over to banks and corporations ever since.
Fixed it for you
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
May 6th, 2012
8:27 pm
Challenge to Austerity, And Germany, Is Sharpened
As Europe’s only healthy large economy, Germany’s support would be essential for any change. And Chancellor Angela Merkel and her government, fearful of popular resistance in Germany, have made clear in recent weeks that they wouldn’t soften their austerity demands, no matter who won Sunday’s elections.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303630404577388360846621648.html?mod=WSJ_GoogleNews&mod=igoogle_wsj_gadgv1
—————————-
Sometimes common sense prevails. And since Germany hasn’t been as careless as the more socialist countries, they have a larger say in how to save the big government spenders from themselves.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
May 6th, 2012
8:28 pm
Zebra: Seems conservatives have been fighting to turn it over to banks and corporations ever since.
—————-
Ever seen a bank or corporation vote?
Me either.
@@
May 6th, 2012
8:34 pm
The “Progressive Conservative U.S.A.”???
Is that what you are, AmVet…a half & half(er)?
And I think Dusty needs some lovin’.
ew
schnirt
@@
May 6th, 2012
8:43 pm
Among the many things I did not know.
Black Women and Fat
To get a quick introduction to the politics of black fat, I recommend Andrea Elizabeth Shaw’s provocative book “The Embodiment of Disobedience: Fat Black Women’s Unruly Political Bodies.” Ms. Shaw argues that the fat black woman’s body “functions as a site of resistance to both gendered and racialized oppression.” By contextualizing fatness within the African diaspora, she invites us to notice that the fat black woman can be a rounded opposite of the fit black slave, that the fatness of black women has often functioned as both explicit political statement and active political resistance.
So why are some white women fat?
Again…weird!
@@
May 6th, 2012
9:09 pm
Too bad this wasn’t around when Mizzzz Fluke went off to college.
High school grads go online to gift-wish registries
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
May 6th, 2012
9:18 pm
Found an old piece of lumber under a pile a leaves in the backyard, it was now rotted, and when I picked it up, a bunch of liberals, um, I mean, termites went scurrying to and fro.
Think about it, a formerly sound, strong and substantial structure was now hollowed out and made weak by those who feast on strength without nary a contribution, other than the occasional diaper filling and blubbering.
Yep, I was thinking about America too.
@@
May 6th, 2012
9:47 pm
Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. said on Sunday that he was “absolutely comfortable” with same-sex marriages and was heartened by their growing acceptance across the country, a position that moves well beyond the “evolving” views that President Obama has said he holds on the issue.
The comments, which aides described as the off-the-cuff opinions of a vice president not known for fidelity to a script, sent the White House scrambling to clarify that Mr. Biden was not articulating an official change in policy, a reaction that highlighted the administration’s unease over the subject.
Gotta LUV Joe.
@@
May 6th, 2012
10:24 pm
A nation still struggling to clear up one housing debacle has run smack into another — soaring rents.
The foreclosure mess has pushed millions of former homeowners with tarnished credit into a competitive apartment market across the U.S. Add fresh demand from young workers, few new units and tight standards for home loans, and the result is rental sticker shock not seen in years.
Rents are surging from New York to Los Angeles. The average monthly U.S. rent for apartments hit $1,008 in the first quarter, pushing past the all-time high set in the third quarter of 2008, according to the data firm RealFacts. USC’s Lusk Center for Real Estate forecasts a 10% jump in Los Angeles County rents over the next two years. In certain markets, it is now cheaper to own a home than rent.
Robert Corlette pays about $1,700 a month for a two-bedroom town house in Anaheim Hills that he shares with his wife and five children.—LATimes.
Who couldn’t see that coming.
Hillbilly D
May 6th, 2012
10:35 pm
@@
Interesting topic you bring up there. I don’t know how it was in other places but in my area, before the Great Meltdown, you could buy a house as cheap or cheaper than you could rent one. Maybe some people bought houses that really couldn’t afford to but it made as much sense to do that as to keep pouring money down a rat-hole and never having anything to show for it. In my opinion, the adjustable rate mortgage is what really caused the problems. They didn’t get in trouble until the reset hit.
Today’s Rebellion News – May 6th 2012 | Rebellion News
May 7th, 2012
12:42 am
[...] There’s austerity in Europe, all right — of the taxing sort [...]
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
May 7th, 2012
7:13 am
A socialist France–easier to dominate economically, but an even more worthless ally militarily.
Think we could get China to move back to the left too?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
May 7th, 2012
7:31 am
[French President-elect Hollande] has openly admitted that he “does not like the rich” and declared that “my real enemy is the world of finance”. This means taxing the wealthy by up to 75 per cent, curtailing the activities of Paris as a centre for financial dealing, and ploughing millions into creating more civil service jobs.
——–
Sounds like a winning plan!
Too bad he doesn’t realize that his real enemy is a citizenry that thinks they can live like Germans while working a 35-hour week at a worthless government job.
AmVet
May 7th, 2012
7:52 am
Too bad this wasn’t around when
Mizzzz Flukethe slut, prostitute and FemiNazi went off to college.Write to your hero, dittohead.
Maybe he’ll share his porn videos with you!
redneckbluedog
May 7th, 2012
7:53 am
SBinF
May 6th, 2012
4:04 pm
What’s your solution, Kyle? Cut spending? Lower taxes for the highest earners?
Where do you suggest cuts be made?
——————————————————
Don’t cut spending in the face of Socialism..!!!! Don’t lower taxes in the face of record deficits…!!!! GW Bush tried that….did not create jobs and created “The Great Recession”….
You know what the answer is….We didn’t have these problems when top marginal tax rates were 64%…..but you’re going to have to look at the evidence and quit listening to idealogues…!!!!
And if companies want to go out of business…we’ll have to see if somebody else wants to take up the slack….
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
May 7th, 2012
8:40 am
How about that. “Austerity” takes a shellacking, and European stock markets plunge. For those of you who vote Democrat, that means people expect the economy to decline.
How can that be, libtards?
Oh, Stinch of Irony on Monday morning
May 7th, 2012
8:47 am
“How about that. “Austerity” takes a shellacking, and European stock markets plunge. For those of you who vote Democrat, that means people expect the economy to decline.
How can that be, libtards?”
The US economy as a whole isn’t great, however the stock market has been rising for several years; so what is your point?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
May 7th, 2012
8:53 am
The point is that the left claimed “austerity” was hurting Europe’s economy, but now that it’s been rejected, the economy is expected to do WORSE.
Oh, Stinch of Irony on Monday morning
May 7th, 2012
8:55 am
Are you just basing that on the stock market or from a cross section of economists who have extensive knowledge of the situation?