Another Georgia congressman proposes possible Obamacare replacement
Last week, I looked at U.S. Rep. Tom Price’s bill to repeal and replace Obamacare. His bill includes a section on tort reform authored by Congressman Phil Gingrey, who, like Price, was a physician before entering politics.
Well, Gingrey and Price aren’t the only doctors-turned-congressmen from Georgia. Paul Broun, who represents much of northeast Georgia in Congress, has submitted his own repeal-and-replace bill, the OPTION Act. It caught the attention of Avik Roy, a health-policy blogger for Forbes, who gave it a fairly positive review as “The Tea Party’s Plan for Replacing Obamacare.”
Some of the OPTION (Offering Patients True Individualized Options Now) Act’s provisions are similar to Price’s Empowering Patients First Act. Both provide for repealing the Affordable Care Act, a.k.a. Obamacare; both change the tax treatment of health care to put those buying coverage in the individual market on equal tax footing with people in employer-sponsored plans; and both allow for interstate insurance purchases and ways to let small businesses band together to form larger risk pools.
But whereas Price’s bill includes Gingrey’s tort reform measures and goes farther in establishing risk pools and addressing Medicaid, Broun would leave reforms of malpractice laws and Medicaid to other bills (he has proposed a separate bill to block-grant Medicaid funds to the states). Instead, he focuses on a premium-support model for Medicare, a la the Paul Ryan plan, and would change the law mandating emergency-room care, known as EMTALA. Roy summarizes those changes:
The OPTION Act includes two significant reforms to our charity care system. First, it gives physicians a tax credit (i.e., a subsidy) of between $2,000 and $8,000 a year for engaging in charity care, depending upon the amount of charity care they offer. “Today, I could be put in jail for giving charity care to a Medicare patient for free,” explains Broun. “What we’re doing is we’re taking all of those regulations out of the system.”
Second, it would allow emergency rooms to turn away patients, under EMTALA, that don’t have actual emergencies. “I had the experience of what every ER physician sees in this country,” says Broun, “which is people who aren’t having emergencies using the ER. They should be seeing their regular doctors.” This simple reform could do a lot to ensure that uninsured people with actual emergencies would get treated faster, with better outcomes, than they do today.
One thing is clear: This trio of congressmen with medical backgrounds stand to put Georgia front and center in the health policy debate whether or not the Supreme Court overturns part or all of Obamacare.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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176 comments Add your comment
Jack
April 10th, 2012
5:59 am
The doctors know more about healthcare than Obama and Pelosi. The Supremes need to wipe the slate clean to allow a fresh start.
jconservative
April 10th, 2012
6:10 am
Jack the problem with the Supreme Court making a decision is that they do not know any more about health care than Obama and Pelosi.
I see no problem with the national health care policies we had pre-Obamacare. Every person who wanted access to health care was able to obtain it. That is one of the few things Reagan got right.
ByteMe
April 10th, 2012
6:24 am
One thing is clear: This trio of congressmen with medical backgrounds stand to put Georgia front and center in the health policy debate whether or not the Supreme Court overturns part or all of Obamacare.
My Magic 8 Ball says: “The future is murky”
My Magic 8 Ball knows better than Kyle.
Pizzaman
April 10th, 2012
6:25 am
Where were all the great idea’s when the debate was going on 2 yrs ago? Could they be coming to the fore because it’s an election year? BTW Kyle, GA’s not front and center on anything and last in most things.
Road Scholar
April 10th, 2012
6:48 am
conservative: So, you see no problem with annual double digit growth in premiums? No problem with not allowing pre-existing conditions? No problem with not having state health care co-ops that could lower costs?
Pizzaman: Exactly!
What I want to know is what other tax breaks are they going to propose for the 1%!
DeborahinAthens
April 10th, 2012
6:54 am
The Republicans had eight years of total control of the Presidency, the Legislative Branch, and the Judiciary, and they did not enact tort reform–something that is badly needed in this country, and not just for the medical sector. They did nothing. To my knowledge, no one even proposed a bill proposing tort reform. If one factored in the opportunity costs that specious lawsuits suck out of our economy, it would be staggering!! Don’t fall for the Republican’s new found “Healthcare Reform”. These guys have nothing, nothing, nothing! And Broun, who is my Congressman…the man is a certifiable fruitcake. Look up the insane bills this nut has tried to introduce to the House. Even they can stomach him. He gets re-elected because the healthcare industry and the insurance industry give him millions (and he still illegally uses his Franking Privileges because he’s always running out of money). You gotta love these Repugs that have no ideas, cannot manage their own finances telling us that we need to suck it up and let them do what is in our best interest. Idiots all.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
6:57 am
“Where were all the great idea’s when the debate was going on 2 yrs ago? ”
As repeated many times when you tried to deflect from the actual issue LAST time, Pizzaman, they were stuck in Democrat-controlled committees and couldn’t even get a hearing from the wonderful folks who claimed they wanted compromise, yet didn’t deliver on that part of the debate.
keithmullinss
April 10th, 2012
6:59 am
This special program was launched in 2010 and was originally expected to run out of money before it could cover everyone who needed it. But the opposite happened. People with pre-existing conditions either didn’t know about this plan or didn’t care to take part. Less than 20,000 people have signed up across the country. learn at “Penny Health” for your self
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
7:00 am
“The Republicans had eight years of total control of the Presidency, the Legislative Branch, and the Judiciary”
Technically, the Republicans had SIX years of total control of the Legislative Branch, not eight.
And no one controls the Judiciary.
But other than that, you got one out of three right, DeborahinAthens!
Ayn Rant
April 10th, 2012
7:17 am
Great plans from two more politicians who don’t give a damn about health care for all Americans! More deductions for the well-off, more power and profit for the insurance middlemen who provide no medical care, and no more care at all for the families that can’t afford to buy medical insurance or pay the preposterous costs of medical care and patented prescription drugs.
Republican politicians with medical degrees may know how to treat hangnails and broken bones, but they sure as hell don’t know how to administer health care for a nation of 330 million people.
The “plans” are a palliative, not a cure, for what ails American health care.
Wade Hampton
April 10th, 2012
7:25 am
Paul Broun was one of only three patriots who voted against the NDAA of 2012.
.
Good man.
.
Those other two “doctors” are traitors and should be tryed accordingly.
Mary Elizabeth
April 10th, 2012
7:48 am
Paul Krugman, March 18, 2012, “Hurray for Health Reform,” New York Times:
“But the perfect is the enemy of the good; for all its imperfections, this reform would do an enormous amount of good. . .How would ObamaRomneycare change American health care?
For most people the answer is, not at all. In particular, those receiving good health benefits from employers would keep them. The act is aimed, instead, at Americans who fall through the cracks, either going without coverage or relying on the miserably malfunctioning individual, “non-group” insurance market.
The fact is that individual health insurance, as currently constituted, just doesn’t work. If insurers are left free to deny coverage at will — as they are in, say, California — they offer cheap policies to the young and healthy (and try to yank coverage if you get sick) but refuse to cover anyone likely to need expensive care. Yet simply requiring that insurers cover people with pre-existing conditions, as in New York, doesn’t work either: premiums are sky-high because only the sick buy insurance.
The solution — originally proposed, believe it or not, by analysts at the ultra-right-wing Heritage Foundation — is a three-legged stool of regulation and subsidies. As in New York, insurers are required to cover everyone; in return, everyone is required to buy insurance, so that healthy as well as sick people are in the risk pool. Finally, subsidies make those mandated insurance purchases affordable for lower-income families.”
“As I said, the reform is mainly aimed at Americans who fall through the cracks in our current system — an important goal in its own right. But what makes reform truly urgent is the fact that the cracks are rapidly getting wider, because fewer and fewer jobs come with health benefits; employment-based coverage actually declined even during the “Bush boom” of 2003 to 2007, and has plunged since.
What this means is that the Affordable Care Act is the only thing protecting us from an imminent surge in the number of Americans who can’t afford essential care. So this reform had better survive — because if it doesn’t, many Americans who need health care won’t.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/19/opinion/krugman-hurray-for-health-reform.html?_r=2&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
8:01 am
“The fact is that individual health insurance, as currently constituted, just doesn’t work.”
Of course, the 85% of Americans who actually have individual health insurance would dispute that opinion, proving once again that Paul Krugman knows about as much regarding the health care industry as he knows about rocket science.
carlosgvv
April 10th, 2012
8:01 am
All western industrailzed countries, except America, have universal health coverage. This means that either they know something we don’t or we know something they don’t. Which do you think is most likely?
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
8:09 am
“All western industrailzed countries, except America, have universal health coverage.”
Yawn. How many times have we heard that one?
“This means that either they know something we don’t or we know something they don’t.”
Actually, it could be that our country was founded on principles of individual liberty and personal responsibility, and that our politicians are limited in what they can provide for Americans at the point of a gun, which is a very good thing.
Thomas More
April 10th, 2012
8:11 am
One simple but effective tort reform: LOSER PAYS. That would put the hacks out of business tomorrow.
AU Liberal in ATL
April 10th, 2012
8:12 am
If Paul Broun is a “good man” and a patriot, I’m Jesus H. Christ!
Cosby
April 10th, 2012
8:28 am
Once again, get the government out of the way and things will improve. The FDA is a prime example and causes more harm than good
HDB
April 10th, 2012
8:29 am
Those who keep pressing for “tort reform” are basically stating that they wish to deny the right of a jury to make decisions..to limit the judgment that a jury has the right to make!! What you’re professing the the denial of the right to seek redress…and that’s not what this nation is founded.
Why do you persist in the thought that a jury can not make an informed decision when presented the facts???
Turner
April 10th, 2012
8:35 am
In Murray County, the hospital partners with Ga. Mountains Health, a non-profit clinic to perform triage at the ER. If the person coming in has an actual emergency, they are treated in the ER. If they don’t, they see Ga. Mountains Health staff for primary care. The savings per patient without an emergency is many hundreds of dollars.
This needs to be standard practice at every ER in the country.
Pizzaman
April 10th, 2012
8:35 am
The actual issue, Tiberius, is what’s good for the entire US population. Not what the 3210 lobbyists want (that’s 6 for every Senator and Congressman!). Both sides are equally at fault. Every President since Wilson in 1917 has tried some sort of health care/ health care reform. Obama care is the only thing we have at present and most of that doesn’t take affect till 2014 so just how are the Repub’s going to fix it when they don’t know how it will work. ANS: They aren’t trying to fix anything. Just get press and re-elected!
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
8:36 am
“Why do you persist in the thought that a jury can not make an informed decision when presented the facts???”
Why do you persist in ignoring the thousands of excessive judgments handed down by juries despite having the facts and ignoring them?
Tort reform is not about denying the plaintiff due process or the right to seek redress, despite the bleating of you and your ilk to make it so. It is an attempt to corral out-of-control juries and lawyers who seek astronomical judgments for nebulous “pain and suffering” over and above the actual cost of treatment.
St Simons - codewords are the new black
April 10th, 2012
8:38 am
hahahahahahaha Paul Broun, Tom Price, and Gingrey. Throw in mine,
Jack Kingston, the pretend dentist.
This is the new face of Georgia, to the outside world.
Yes, that’s laughter you hear.
You don’t really see derision.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
8:38 am
Fron John: “With all the time you waste here (a mind boggling amount, in fact) one would think you’d at least have something original to add once in a while.”
This from the guy who posted: “More useless, meaningless bluster from a Regressive. And I’m not just talking about Kyle.”
It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad. . . .
carlosgvv
April 10th, 2012
8:38 am
Tiberius – 8:09
So Canada, England, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, France and Germany do not have principles of individual liberty and live at the point of a gun?
Yawn
Same old refusal to give a direct answer to a direct question.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
8:41 am
“The actual issue, Tiberius, is what’s good for the entire US population.”
Except that government has no right to control the actions of the entire US population, Pizzaman.
I know you statists would just love that, but if your idea of “progress” is to restrict my liberty even further, I’ll take “regression” every day of the week.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
8:49 am
“So Canada, England, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, France and Germany do not have principles of individual liberty and live at the point of a gun?”
They are not founded on our same principles (you’d know that if you knew our history or theirs), and yes, we have devolved into a society which breeds people who want to take from others that which they have no right to.
Inside Out
April 10th, 2012
8:51 am
Sooo………Tiberius…..if you had surgery and a Quack Dr. left a surgical sponge inside of you…You would be ok with the hospital paying totake it out and throwing you a couple of free checkups as punishment for the Dr.s screwup????
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
8:52 am
“Same old refusal to give a direct answer to a direct question.”
Your inability to understand a direct answer, carlos, does not constitute a failure on my part.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
8:55 am
“Sooo………Tiberius…..if you had surgery and a Quack Dr. left a surgical sponge inside of you…You would be ok with the hospital paying totake it out and throwing you a couple of free checkups as punishment for the Dr.s screwup????”
Yes. Absolutely. The only other thing they’d have to cover is any wages lost due to missing work, and an agreement to cover any follow-up issues that weren’t corrected. Why should I need anything else?
AmVet
April 10th, 2012
8:58 am
All western industrailzed countries, except America, have universal health coverage.
Yep, every last one of them.
That we alone, do not is a deadly travesty.
Welcome to the corporatocracy.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
9:01 am
“That we alone, do not is a deadly travesty.”
Or a sign that we’re still the last hope of freedom for the world.
Inside Out
April 10th, 2012
9:03 am
Sooo that Dr. does not deserved to be punished for endagering a life??? Should he be tried criminally since you do not wish to see him punished in a civil court???
Just saying..
April 10th, 2012
9:05 am
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
8:01 am
“…Paul Krugman knows about as much regarding the health care industry as he knows about rocket science.
But he does appear to know something about having his opinions widely read…
UGA 1999
April 10th, 2012
9:06 am
Any replacement would be better than ObamaCare.
Outside In
April 10th, 2012
9:11 am
Hey, inside, docs are punished all the time by state boards. They get penalties that cost them money. Next question.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
9:12 am
“Sooo that Dr. does not deserved to be punished for endagering a life???”
“Punished”? No. But his malpractice premiums will certainly go up if he continues the poor performance, thereby reducing his income and hopefully urging him to do better.
“Should he be tried criminally since you do not wish to see him punished in a civil court???”
No. Unless he deliberately left that in me in an attempt to harm me. What you members of the victim society just don’t get is that in the real world, people make mistakes. As long as they correct them, I’m fine with that. I don’t need your pound of flesh retributions.
AmVet
April 10th, 2012
9:14 am
Tens of thousands of American men, women and children – especially elderly women and children – die needlessly every year with this debacle of a perverted system.
Tens of thousands more go bankrupt every year due to catastrophic medical expenses.
This inept bureaucracy waste more than $300 billion per year in fraud and abuse.
And the biggest kicker?
In 2008 we spent $7,129 per capita on health care—more than twice as much per capita as the rest of the industrialized world.
What a tragic joke.
Just saying..
April 10th, 2012
9:16 am
Within one week, two Republican plans to fundamentally change health care in America published by Kyle. Which indicates:
A) The existing way the country was doing health care won’t continue
and
B) After Obamacare, American healthcare will never be the same.
Sometimes, people need to be prodded.
UGA 1999
April 10th, 2012
9:18 am
Just saying…so lets just leave it alone!
O House Dawg
April 10th, 2012
9:20 am
“So Canada, England, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, France and Germany do not have principles of individual liberty and live at the point of a gun?”
“They are not founded on our same principles (you’d know that if you knew our history or theirs), and yes, we have devolved into a society which breeds people who want to take from others that which they have no right to.”
Ever heard of the Magna Carta. You passed by it in the National Archives before seeing the Constitution and Declaration of Independence.
Also there is the Enlightment period thought and literature to which Jefferson and Franklin contributed.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
9:20 am
“Tens of thousands of American men, women and children – especially elderly women and children – die needlessly every year with this debacle of a perverted system.”
And yet that left-wing mantra has been debunked time after time after time, yet continues to be repeated.
“In 2008 we spent $7,129 per capita on health care—more than twice as much per capita as the rest of the industrialized world.”
Which means nothing in the statistical world if you don’t look at the whys, rather than just the raw numbers. Which probably explains why liberals to love to quote the numbers so much. Thoughtful analysis isn’t really in their wheelhouse.
carlosgvv
April 10th, 2012
9:22 am
Tiberius
1. I know our history and theirs better than you ever will. Their people have every bit as much liberty and freedom as we do.
2. We both know the answer to the question. The Governments of these countries, unlike ours, are not bought and paid for by Big Business. Therefore, they can put the medical needs of their people above the profit needs of their corporations.
3.Being the good Republican tool you are, I know you’ll never be able to openly admit this.
Inside Out
April 10th, 2012
9:22 am
Tibs…according to your logic, A drunk driver did not crash his car into traffic on purpose…He should not be punished…. The lady the hits a biker while she is texting…..It was just an accident….. And teh state boards are intrested in protecting the profession…Not the ones that have been harmed….. Wait…I thought you righties were all about making folks accountable for their own actions??? Dr. Feel Good is guilty of malpractice, MAKE HIM DEAL WITH THE FALLOUT!!!!!!
ragnar danneskjold
April 10th, 2012
9:23 am
Suspect these sound proposals will go nowhere with those politicians whose desire is merely to control the lives of others. Dr. Sowell today: “Whatever the ideology or rhetoric of the political left, their agenda around the world has been preempting other people’s decisions and regimenting their lives.”
HDB
April 10th, 2012
9:23 am
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
8:36 am
“Why do you persist in ignoring the thousands of excessive judgments handed down by juries despite having the facts and ignoring them?”
The jury made the judgment based on the facts presented and the redress for the damages they saw evidenced. What you who are on the outside may feel as excessive, the JURY saw as just and fair. Conservatives persist in lauding the judicial system when judgments fit their desires…and criticize it when they don’t!!
So you’re basically saying that juries are incapable of making a just decision????
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
9:23 am
“Ever heard of the Magna Carta. ”
Yeah. Ever hear of Socialism? The Brits embraced that concept long ago when they FORGOT the basics of the Magna Carta.
Jefferson
April 10th, 2012
9:24 am
Because of how GA legislators in the recent past have performed, their ideas will have little credibility among Americans. You should worry about 1st impressions.
carlosgvv
April 10th, 2012
9:25 am
Tiberus
45,000 people die each year for lack of medical insurance, according to Reuters and CBS News. Of course you have proof this is just left-wing mantra, right?
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
9:26 am
“So you’re basically saying that juries are incapable of making a just decision????”
Yes and no. Yes, they are capable of making a just decision as to whether someone was harmed. No, they are not capable of making a just decision on actual compensation. Too many people these days are guided by their feelings and not by the facts around them.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
9:30 am
“45,000 people die each year for lack of medical insurance, according to Reuters and CBS News.”
carlos, you DO realize that they are simply quoting the incorrect figures that former (thank God!) Congressman Alan Grayson used from a study that was debunked shortly after he used them, right?
And let’s face it, CBS news isn’t exactly a source for accurate information any longer, now is it?
WAW
April 10th, 2012
9:32 am
Tiberius, et al – So you are not only having Insurance Companies determine what and how much care a patient may receive from what doctor and what hospital, but you are also having these same Insurance Companies determine liability and judgement for malpractice. Having a bunch doctors turned Republican _ _ _ _heads (apply your own expletive) is like having a drunk overseeing Jack Daniels.
They are about three years late (as usual) with their great ideas and if there’s any justice left that is not owned by lobby-bloggers, they’ll see their piggy banks cracked. They can’t use their insider information anymore, now how about making them part-timers, cut their forever salaries, let them buy their own insurance and, better yet, send their gimme butts home. Congressman is really BAD title to claim if you’re a _ _ _ _ (choose again) fool.
AmVet
April 10th, 2012
9:34 am
So what is the number of Americans who die each year from having no health insurance that you use in lieu of those provided in the Harvard Medical Study?
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
9:38 am
“So you are not only having Insurance Companies determine what and how much care a patient may receive from what doctor and what hospital, but you are also having these same Insurance Companies determine liability and judgement for malpractice.”
No, I’m not. You need to brush up on your reading comprehension, WAW.
I’m saying that I, as a patient and a (relatively) free individual, have the right and responsibility to have the doctor / hospital in question fix what they caused and failing that, have the right to seek redress with the courts FOR THE ACTUAL COST OF HAVING THE PROBLEM FIXED.
What part of that do you NOT understand?
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
9:41 am
“So what is the number of Americans who die each year from having no health insurance that you use in lieu of those provided in the Harvard Medical Study?”
Don’t know. And frankly don’t care. I’m sort of the “you made your bed, now lie in it” kind of guy. It’s not my job to take care of other Americans at the point of a gun.
UGA 1999
April 10th, 2012
9:42 am
Did anyone hear Obama’s speach yesterday about the failure of “trickle down economics” and the failure of free market society? Any you guys on the left do not think he is for socialism????
Inside Out
April 10th, 2012
9:43 am
Ok..Tibs here we go again…Then according to your logic, The victim of a drunk driver should only expect that their medical bills be taken care of and their car be fixed….. They should have no expectation of being made complete when their quaility of life is deminished? The Drunk should not be punished in any way right????
Inside Out
April 10th, 2012
9:45 am
UGA…..Please give us three examples when trickle down economics worked???? Like Bush 41 said, its VOODOOO Economics!!!
UGA 1999
April 10th, 2012
9:46 am
It is funny to me as well that all of the blacks are wanting to fight the stand your ground law in florida. I wonder if Zimmerman was black and Martin was white if they would feel the same way?
Oblama
April 10th, 2012
9:46 am
Recently I heard this comment at a gym I go to. “I wouldn’t be caught dead at a Repub rally. (They were wearing a “Smoke ‘mo weed” t-shirt). I replied ” If you were dead they wouldn’t want you at their rally because everyone knows only dead Dems can vote.” That is why Oblama and the Dems are opposed to voter I.D. – they want the dead Dems to vote.
UGA 1999
April 10th, 2012
9:46 am
Inside Out…..How about the entire 70’s, 80’s and 90’s. Is that good enough for you?
AmVet
April 10th, 2012
9:47 am
Don’t know.
What a shocker.
1999, do you think trickle down has worked?
UGA 1999
April 10th, 2012
9:47 am
Oblama….NICE!
Rafe Hollister
April 10th, 2012
9:47 am
I call piling on! Tiberius, you are doing a great job swatting the gnats.
Carlos, if you think Europe has the same freedoms that we enjoy, you are incorrect. Try buying a firearm in Europe legally. Try out the old freedom of speech in Europe, yes they allow most speech, but draw a carton of Muhammad or do some street preaching.
With all those great programs you libs long for, come confiscatory tax rates, which in itself is an attack on freedom.
Keep on keeping on Tiberius!
HDB
April 10th, 2012
9:47 am
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
9:38 am
“So you are not only having Insurance Companies determine what and how much care a patient may receive from what doctor and what hospital, but you are also having these same Insurance Companies determine liability and judgement for malpractice.”
“No, I’m not. You need to brush up on your reading comprehension, WAW.
I’m saying that I, as a patient and a (relatively) free individual, have the right and responsibility to have the doctor / hospital in question fix what they caused and failing that, have the right to seek redress with the courts FOR THE ACTUAL COST OF HAVING THE PROBLEM FIXED.”
Part of the problem here, Tibby, is that there have been cases where the problem CAN’T be fixed….and limiting the awards actually denies the patient the care that he/she would require. If you limit the damages, the doctor is actually being rewarded for his mistake!! A jury not only must access the facts and the damages, a jury must also be emphathetic. For some, damage awards may seem excessive…but since many weren’t privy to the facts of the case, the jury is the best and only arbiter of the case and it should be the entity that determines the required damages…not the legislature…..
Inside Out
April 10th, 2012
9:48 am
BUt he was not…..This was an unarmed person shot by a trigger happy clown…. It should not matter what their race is…..An innocent person was killed!!!! What part of that are you having a problem with????
UGA 1999
April 10th, 2012
9:50 am
Inside Out. See that is the problem you ASSUME Martin was innocent. The fact is that he attacked Zimmerman for following him. Zimmerman defended himself. Argue all you want but for now the courts agree.
HDB
April 10th, 2012
9:51 am
UGA 1999
April 10th, 2012
9:46 am
“It is funny to me as well that all of the blacks are wanting to fight the stand your ground law in florida. I wonder if Zimmerman was black and Martin was white if they would feel the same way
If that were the case, the black guy would have been arrested, denied bail, and sentenced to death in Florida…..You wouldn’t have had the outrage….(and you know that….)
hryder
April 10th, 2012
9:51 am
People who think Obama Care should remain might benefit, as could most supporters, if they would carefully consider the definition of insurance. Secondly, logical reasoning dictates that the Constitution does not permit that Congress may by law dictate that citizens purchase given products,even when such products are deemed by most citizens to be a prudent purchase. The time is past for the majority of citizens to tacitly accept anyone uttering what a well known Clinton once publicly stated, “We know how to spend your money better than you.” VOTE OUT ALL ELECTED INCUMBENT OFFICE HOLDERS IN THE NOVEMBER ELECTIONS.
AmVet
April 10th, 2012
9:52 am
1999, please do explain your 9:46.
Real average hourly earnings (excluding fringe benefits) now stand roughly at 1974 levels. Yes, that’s right, no real increase in over 35 years.
I cannot even believe you would contend otherwise…
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
9:52 am
“Ok..Tibs here we go again…Then according to your logic, The victim of a drunk driver should only expect that their medical bills be taken care of and their car be fixed…..”
As regards their personal costs, yes.
“They should have no expectation of being made complete when their quaility of life is deminished?”
Define “made complete”. And just what part of their “quality of life” has diminished?
“The Drunk should not be punished in any way right????”
No. Drunk driving is not a “mistake”. It is reckless endangerment. Now, if you can prove that a doctor was reckless in endangering his / her patient, you might have a case, which then could be brought to the court system.
UGA 1999
April 10th, 2012
9:52 am
HDB….Nice assumption again! And who is the racist one?
UGA 1999
April 10th, 2012
9:53 am
AmVet…Is that because you are comparing average earning to the cost of living? Like GASOLINE!
Rafe Hollister
April 10th, 2012
9:54 am
Inside Out
Trickle down is certainly possible physically, and it works much better than trickle up, which physically is impossible. Trickle up poverty is the Oblamer economic policy. Take money from the makers and give to the takers, so they can trickle it up to the middle class. Hard to get much height on the trickle. All the money given to the takers goes to paying bills, the lottery, liquor stores, the 7/11, so not much left to try and trickle up.
UGA 1999
April 10th, 2012
9:54 am
AmVet…IS that also because 8.2% of Americans are out of work or have stopped looking for work. So their income equates to 0 for all averages?
Oblama
April 10th, 2012
9:55 am
Congress at the Fed level pulls in more lobbyist money in 5 minutes than the Georgia state congress rakes in in a year. I am opposed to elected people receiving anything of value from lobbyists. Just last night it was reported that one large Fed agency had a party at tax payers expense that cost over $800,000. They should all be fired but they won’t because they support Oblama. Just to make it clear – when the Repubs rule they do the same thing. We don’t need this when the government can’t even afford to buy an artificial arm for a wounded vet.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
9:56 am
“Part of the problem here, Tibby, is that there have been cases where the problem CAN’T be fixed….and limiting the awards actually denies the patient the care that he/she would require.”
Actually, HDB, it does not. Juries can, and do award damages to plaintiffs for on-going care and rehabilitation every day, and not as part of any “pain and suffering” awards, which is where juries get things all screwed up.
HDB
April 10th, 2012
9:57 am
UGA 1999
April 10th, 2012
9:50 am
“Inside Out. See that is the problem you ASSUME Martin was innocent. The fact is that he attacked Zimmerman for following him. Zimmerman defended himself.”
If the police dispatcher told Zimmerman NOT to leave his vehicle (which shee DID!)…and Zimmerman followed Trayvon Martin, then Zimmerman becomes the ANTAGONIST…an ARMED antagonist!! Trayvon Martin then had the right to protect himself from being followed…there is the PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE here…but Zimmerman had already profiled this kid and judged him guilty!!
Now, an unarmed kid is defending himself against an armed antagonist and dies….those actions warrant an arrest for at minimum, manslaughter…and at worst, 2nd degree murder…..
If Zimmerman were black, he’d be in JAIL already……
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
10:00 am
Folks, this is a blog about health care alternatives, not Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman.
Just a reminder about Kyle’s wish to not have threads hijacked.
Sheez Louise
April 10th, 2012
10:01 am
Contrary to what “Jack” and many think, a great deal of doctors don’t know squat about “healthcare”. What they DO know about is MEDICINE and the DIAGNOSIS AND TREATMENT OF DISEASES. That’s where everyone seems to get so lost in twisting up “healthcare” (in other words health INSURANCE) with politics. Case in point, I was amazed that a specialist i had seen had no idea whatsoever about how her practice billed certain treatments to insurance and that type of stuff. I expected her to know, after all she is a seasoned professional. She revealed to me that quite often while doctors are concerned about being paid for their services, they employ professional staffs for the purpose of dealing with insurnce companies and all the mumbo mumbo. Of course at it’s most basic level I know this, I was just surprised that basically she told me that she essentially does not concern herself with the insurance aspect of the business. So really, and as it should be, there has to be an interaction between the commercial entity and the government that regulates said commerce with approproriate checks and balances. Otherwise, they are left to run roughshod over the consumer. What’s so difficult about that for people to grasp? I know, they hate government so much (and what they think it represents) they cannot see straight. MEDICINE =! “healthcare”
HDB
April 10th, 2012
10:01 am
UGA 1999
April 10th, 2012
9:52 am
“HDB….Nice assumption again! And who is the racist one?”
The justice system….society in general….the guy who pulled the trigger…..too many to mention…..
AmVet
April 10th, 2012
10:01 am
I’m talking about FLAT-LINED wages (adjusted for inflation) for a huge percentage of American workers for forty years.
AmVet
April 10th, 2012
10:02 am
No. 1999. Unemployment is not a factor in calculating working wages.
Oblama
April 10th, 2012
10:04 am
There is a culture of wasteful entitlement in D.C. that needs to be broken. They will never voluntarily change their wasteful spending. Time for Term Limits in Congress on BOTH parties. Let’s clean out the trash and start over.
td
April 10th, 2012
10:04 am
Inside Out
April 10th, 2012
9:03 am
Why should a person become wealthy because a Doctor made an honest mistake? How would you like to loose a couple years salary or more every time you made an honest mistake on your job?
MarkV
April 10th, 2012
10:07 am
The part of the Broun’s proposal regarding EMTALA would be funny if it were not such a serious matter. The uninsured go now to ERs with non-emergency problem specifically because they cannot pay the regular doctors. Therefore the advice that “they should see their regular doctors” is ludicrous.
UGA 1999
April 10th, 2012
10:09 am
HDB….OH that is right a black man has never pulled a trigger! hahaha.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
10:12 am
td @10:04
Spot on!
Bob
April 10th, 2012
10:12 am
Deborah in athens, repubs never had 8 years in total control of congress and the exec. Total control is what dems had the first two years of the obo admin and they could have raised taxes and cut spending but they did not.
carlosgvv
April 10th, 2012
10:12 am
Rafe Hollister – 9:47
It’s true I can’t buy a firearm legally the way I can here. It’s also true I don’t have to walk down the streets there afraid every other person encountered has a gun and might decide to shoot me if somehow they feel threatened and need to “stand their ground”.
Try being white and walking down Stewart Ave. in the Southside of Atlanta with a Confederate T-shirt on. You have to freedom to do this and would be about as safe as those people drawing cartoons of Muhammed in Europe.
Ayn Rant
April 10th, 2012
10:13 am
“Tiberius” should study more and write less. In computer terms he’s all output and no input this morning.
The political dogma he expresses in obnoxious terms is the same that Romney expresses in dulcet tones. Beware! The time of political dogma has passed: fascism has been defeated, communism has collapsed, socialism has been abandoned, and theocracy has been discredited. Except for a few social antediluvians, people all over the world are turning to reason rather than dogma for their governance.
Tiberius, by the way, was a Roman Emperor who withdrew from Rome to lead a solitary life, leaving the administration of the Roman Empire unchecked in the hands of his scheming, grasping staff. He was not in the least garrulous, just quietly neglectful and incompetent.
Kyle Wingfield
April 10th, 2012
10:13 am
UGA, et al. — This thread is not about Trayvon and Zimmerman.
MarkV: Actually, one of the things most people, regardless of political ideology, agree on is that it’s not good to have people getting routine care at ERs. Now, I’m not inclined to think Broun’s proposal would work without some of the other proposals along these lines — namely, to increase the number of “urgent care” clinics in close proximity to ERs to treat these kind of non-emergency ailments. However, we also all agree (I think) that part of the excessive cost of health care, which in turn helps drive the excessive cost of health insurance, is people being treated at ERs — at ER rates — and not paying for it.
So, there’s a bit of a chicken-and-egg thing going on, and Broun’s plan just might work to change that dynamic and get the ball rolling on other changes.
UGA 1999
April 10th, 2012
10:17 am
Kyle, I agree but it is about social issues. One leads to another.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
10:20 am
“socialism has been abandoned”
Except, of course, in most of the countries in the European Union, China, and most especially California, Massachusetts New York and Illinois.
And look how well all of them are doing.
MiltonMan
April 10th, 2012
10:24 am
Deborah:
“And Broun, who is my Congressman…the man is a certifiable fruitcake.”
As opposed to the sacrifical lamb (a lawyer at that) the crappy dems nominated to run against him???
Maybe you bankrupt dems in this state could nominate something worth a crap to run vs. the incumbents.
AmVet
April 10th, 2012
10:28 am
Tort deform and tweaking around the edges of this horrible healthcare system is going to do next to nothing.
The GOP, and the compliant Dems like Max Baucus, are not remotely interested in fixing this debacle.
Their paymasters will not allow it.
And until we start electing men with moral courage – in lieu of the Tom Prices of this world – this catastrophe is the best we are ever gonna get in this country.
So shut up, eat your cake and let the giant HMOs and BIG pharma tell you what is best for you…
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
10:30 am
“Tort deform and tweaking around the edges of this horrible healthcare system is going to do next to nothing.”
Yeah, ’cause fixing what causes about 30% of the additional cost of U.S. healthcare isn’t worth going after, is it, AmVet?
MarkV
April 10th, 2012
10:32 am
Kyle Wingfield @10:13 am
Kyle, I did not say anything about it being good for people getting routine care at ERs. Of course it is not, and of course it drives the excessive cost of health insurance. That is the reason behind the individual mandate. What I pointed out was, referring to what you wrote about Broun’s proposal, that simply to say that those uninsured with non-emergency problems should “see their regular doctors” was no solution.
UGA 1999
April 10th, 2012
10:36 am
It all comes down to what you feel you are “entitled” to.
Inside Out
April 10th, 2012
10:36 am
td..therre lies the rub…..In my job, an honest mistake could cost a company MILLIONS and most likely cost me my job…..In their case, It could cost someone a limb, or an organ, or the abilty to function in a “normal” manner……Because of the nature of what they do, they should be held to a higher standard…i for sure do not want my Dr. having the same level of competence as my butcher….
UGA 1999
April 10th, 2012
10:37 am
Inside Out….I actually agree with you.
HDB
April 10th, 2012
10:40 am
With conservatives railing about government spending, the cuts in human services are affecting health care costs. By this, I mean, for those without access to a regular doctor, the neighborhood health centers are the only places that the poor and unemployed can get some semblance of health care. What needs to be done – IMHO – is this:
1) Better funding of neighborhood health centers
2) A governmental baseline HMO that everyone can get into
3) Insurance companies cover the catastrophic illnesses
All could be profitable…and a hybrid of universal coverage would be in place 9 note how much profit AFLAC makes on just cancer insurance alone!)….
Facts
April 10th, 2012
10:59 am
Here are some things that cause U.S. health care to be so expensive:
Prescription drugs
Defensive medicine
Fraud
Obesity
Lack of coordination among providers
The health care reform law is an insurance industry, business and populace regulation instrument. It doesn’t tackle in any substantial way any of the above.
If you took away the profits of the insurance industry and made their leadership work for free, costs would go down less than 2-percent. About half of the health insurance industry is not-for-profit, so that portion of the industry isn’t motivated by Wall Street. Health insurers have already been spending 85 percent of premiums directly on care and for large groups its more than 90 percent. It’s a very efficient industry.
Time to quit scapegoating one player and reform the entire system.
Also
Jefferson
April 10th, 2012
11:01 am
Medical professionals will look at heath care without the ability to be objective, due to their experiences and the fact it puts bread on their table. In some cases excessive costs are caused by Drs, no matter if it is fear of suit based or greed based. Not only Drs, administrators work in some cases with the premise, the higher the budget, the smaller my salary looks. Cost is the problem and much of the cost is not for services performed.
Furious Styles
April 10th, 2012
11:11 am
The only thing Georgia needs to be front and center on is Education and Traffic, otherwise there’s too much confusion.
snoqualmiepass
April 10th, 2012
11:13 am
Love all the comments here concerning today’s issue of health care, a livley discussion, however pizzaman, carlosgvv, y’all are wasting your time attempting to convince T-Rod of anything counter to T-Rods world view. reminds me so much of the Chinese Red Guards during the Cultural Revolution… its called tunnel vision… T-Rod only sees what he wants… another cultural warrior and I am sure very proud of his “knowledge”. the thing is… I make money off quotations from T-Rod the orical from the South and no I’m not going to pay him a percentage… so keep your pie hole wide open T-Rod, I’m laughing all the way to the bank.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
11:21 am
Of course, they’re all wasting their time, snoqualmiepass.
They, like you, are wrong on this issue, so convincing me of that which cannot be true would certainly constitute a waste of time.
Kinda like expecting something of substance on the actual issue from any of your posts.
snoqualmiepass
April 10th, 2012
11:25 am
Hey T-rod your intellengence is only surpassed by your arrogence, but then… again I’m the guy making money off your eloquent KRAZY, not you.
Substance from you… HA HA HA
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
11:28 am
And yet another post not on subject by snoqualmiepass.
What a shocker!
Common sense
April 10th, 2012
11:33 am
Imagine that. A doctor trying to figure out how best to do things in health care as opposed to a professional politician like a Pelosi or Obama who have ZERO actual experience in the health care field.
Common sense
April 10th, 2012
11:35 am
“T-Rods world view. reminds me so much of the Chinese Red Guards during the Cultural Revolution… its called tunnel vision…”
Never mind that these tunnel visionists were leftists of course. The irony is not lost on us. Leftists are pretty much like sheep. They just follow and do what they are told.
Oblama
April 10th, 2012
11:39 am
On a lighter note “The Donald” has announced that he will allow artificial (transgender) women to enter the “Miss Universe” Pageant. That’s ironic since just a couple of years ago they disqualified a contestant for getting a boob job. Will Oblama force the tax payers to cover the cost of these artificial womens surgeries and hormone replacements? Will we have t pay for “The Beverly Hills Housewives to get botoxed? I guess that will make the ratings go up if she/he makes it to the final 10. Never watched “Miss Universe” anyway as it seemed kind of artificial so I don’t care but will transvestites be allowed in next year – to boost ratings?
Hillbilly D
April 10th, 2012
11:42 am
First, it gives physicians a tax credit (i.e., a subsidy) of between $2,000 and $8,000 a year for engaging in charity care,
This doesn’t sound too realistic to me. Depending on what kind of doctor he is, he could do that much charity care in a couple of days.
All these plans, including Affordable Care have one thing in common, protect the insurance industry’s golden goose.
Jefferson
April 10th, 2012
11:48 am
National health care tax, national health care. Even generals max out rank and pay.
UGA 1999
April 10th, 2012
11:49 am
Hillbilly….you are assuming that a Doctor would not make any charitable contributions. That is completely up to them it is a credit. Some give more, some give zero.
UGA 1999
April 10th, 2012
11:53 am
“Police car in Martin’s neighborhood attacked.” Hmmmm now who do you think could have done that?
Hillbilly D
April 10th, 2012
11:55 am
UGA 1999
My point was that he could use up his tax credit, real quick.
Oblama
April 10th, 2012
11:57 am
Healthcare? Is medicaid working? Is medicare working? Are they within budget? Is the inept Fed government capable of this responsibility? Is there unbiased, independent oversight of these programs to remove fraud, corruption and waste? If the answer is NO to all of the above Oblamacare will be a failure for the same reason these other programs have failed. The Fed government has no clue.
Facts
April 10th, 2012
11:58 am
The insurance industry doesn’t have a golden goose. And, just try paying health care bills without it. You can’t, the care costs too much. Get it? The CARE costs too much.
Hillbilly D
April 10th, 2012
12:05 pm
In my opinion, third party paying helps drive up the cost of healthcare. I’d just as soon see something like Medicare for everybody, or something similar. Talk to any doctor and they’ll tell you how many hours are spent dealing with insurance companies, each of which has different rules.
Real Athens
April 10th, 2012
12:07 pm
Rafe:
Europe is not a country. It is a continent. And yes, you can buy a firearm on the continent. People there enjoy hunting, skeet shooting, etc. etc.
UGA 1999
April 10th, 2012
12:08 pm
Real Athens…You can also buy a weapon in New York but the red tape is so cumbersome that it makes it nearly impossible.
Hillbilly D
April 10th, 2012
12:10 pm
You can also buy a weapon in New York but the red tape is so cumbersome that it makes it nearly impossible.
Only if you buy one in a store.
yuzeyurbrane
April 10th, 2012
12:10 pm
Kyle, again, look at the numbers. None of these so-called alternatives would do more than make a small dent in the 50 million citizens without health insurance or other coverage. Indeed, some are outright inhumane such as some of Broun’s proposals. Turn people away from emergency rooms who should be seeing a doctor in the regular course!! Well, that would certainly improve the horrific emergency room situation we all now face but it begs the question of providing health insurance coverage to enable those emergency room users to see a doctor. Additionally, blockgranting Medicaid would simply lead to funds being diverted away from patients in many states. Why? Because some (Ga. included) have always looked for ways to divert funds for the poor to other budget uses. So what we will end up with is many more people dieing earlier than necessary and an increased risk of health threats to all of us.
Inside Out
April 10th, 2012
12:15 pm
Just for you UGA….
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/09/11099867-two-held-on-9-million-bail-in-tulsa-rampage?lite
UGA 1999
April 10th, 2012
12:16 pm
Inside Out….Your point?
Inside Out
April 10th, 2012
12:16 pm
Nearly is not the same as impossible……
Kyle Wingfield
April 10th, 2012
12:18 pm
yuze: Where do you get your numbers? And re: the “inhumane” — see my 10:13.
As for block-granting, you assume that the federal stipulations that go with Medicaid dollars are resulting in the optimum care for the poor. I say that’s a very bad assumption.
Kyle Wingfield
April 10th, 2012
12:19 pm
snoqualmiepass @ 11:13 and 11:25: If you’re “making money” off what Tiberius or anyone else posts on this blog, I need to introduce you to our copyright attorneys.
Inside Out
April 10th, 2012
12:20 pm
UGA….Hatred has no race…The two guys in OK. should be prosecuted for thrir crimes just and Zimmerman should, and whoever shot up the cars in whatever neighborhood….This has become about black and white when it should be about right and wrong……
Facts
April 10th, 2012
12:20 pm
Hillbilly, you are right, third party paying does drive up the cost of care … i.e. those who have insurance pay through jacked up charges for the uncompensated care the uninsured get. However, again, the ACA does very little that will affect cost. Access, sure. Cost, no. And, that’s what the biggest problem is.
Real Athens
April 10th, 2012
12:21 pm
It is cumbersome to buy a handgun in NYC. Not all firearms are handguns. ‘Handguns were made for killing, that ain’t no good for nothing else.”
I flew into JFK with a 30.06 in checked baggage last year, picked it up at baggage claim, got into a cab and drove straight into the city.
You really should get out of Dacula more.
Oblama
April 10th, 2012
12:21 pm
True Europe varies from country to country. France is socialist as are many of the other countries on the continent but others, being former members of the Soviet Union revile socialism /communism. I have talked to people from England, France, etc. and their system works fine for small things like check ups and colds but not so good for major surgeries. Canada, not European of course, has the same problems. That is why places like M/D. Anderson in Houston, Texas are flooded with foreigners when they need serious medical care such as cancer treatment. If you have a cold (which can’t be cured any way) then Oblamacare is for you. If you have cancer or heart disease – good luck!
Kyle Wingfield
April 10th, 2012
12:23 pm
Hillbilly D @ 12:05: You’re right about third-party paying being a big part of the problem. But what do you think Medicare is?
Also, if everyone were on Medicare, there’d be no one to subsidize the cost of providing care to Medicare recipients at below-market rates. Which means the new universal Medicare would start to look like Medicaid awfully quick.
Facts
April 10th, 2012
12:24 pm
Also, Hillbilly, Medicare is third party paying. Don’t come back, with, yeah but their administrative cost is just 2 percent. That’s accounting tricks … because much of their administration is done by the IRS and other agencies and can be shown as not a Medicare expense.
Real Athens
April 10th, 2012
12:25 pm
The best roadmap I have seen for transforming our healthcare system was published in consumer reports in 2009. It did not include Romney’s individual mandate – a giveaway to insurance lobbyists – but does include a public option. Really, check it out. It’s common sense.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-archive/august-2009/viewpoint/5-common-fears-about-health-reform/reform-5-common-fears.htm
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-archive/august-2009/viewpoint/overview/our-prescription-for-health-care-ov.htm
Hillbilly D
April 10th, 2012
12:26 pm
Facts
Well my Canadian friends seem to think their single payer system works, pretty well. It’s not perfect, as they’ll readily admit but they say they sure wouldn’t want to trade it for what we have. And yes they’ve lived in both countries and dealt with both systems.
Oblama
April 10th, 2012
12:31 pm
Oblamacare – more layers of government ineptness, waste, expense and corruption. Ever since the government got involved in health care costs have spiraled. There is now a health care “bubble” being supported by Fed government checks. It’s bigger than the real estate bubble. What’s in common with these two bubbles? The Fed government got involved and supported the bubble with their checks. The Fed government spending caused the bubble. We don’t need any more Fed government involvement in health care.
Oblama
April 10th, 2012
12:33 pm
Gone today – here tomorrow.
Facts
April 10th, 2012
12:34 pm
I don’t disagree. We need to go one way or the other, probably. All I’m saying is that the current law doesn’t address the biggest problem … cost of services.
mountain man
April 10th, 2012
12:36 pm
“Sooo………Tiberius…..if you had surgery and a Quack Dr. left a surgical sponge inside of you…You would be ok with the hospital paying totake it out and throwing you a couple of free checkups as punishment for the Dr.s screwup????”
A REASONABLE solution would be for the hospital to pay for the sponge to be taken out and any resulting medical bills AND the physician should lose his license, if he has made a serious error – THAT would be a better incentive to not make mistakes! Why give the “victim” a lottery win (actually the “victim” and their lawyer) in order to “punish” the Doctor? All that does is increase malpractice insurance premiums and costs for the rest of us. The Doctor doesn’t get “punished” at all.
How about you at your work? If you make a mistake, should you be fined millions of dollars?
Real Athens
April 10th, 2012
12:38 pm
i’ve personally been treated for kidney stones all over the world — not a lot you can do except, take fluids, manage pain and wait.
The best and most inexpensive treatment I received was in Denmark (FREE!), followed by Sweden (20 euros with DR. visit to hotel), then Canada ($50 US). The most expensive, useless treatment I’ve received was here in the U.S. — hospitalization, x-rays, barium i.v.’s etc, etc. — thousands of dollars in treatment — even after I told them what was happening. A shot of Demerol, 2 gallons of water and a straw would have worked.
I don’t even go to the doctor anymore when one comes on — just the liquor store.
UGA 1999
April 10th, 2012
12:39 pm
Inside Out…Zimmerman was protecting himself. Those two guys were not.
Hillbilly D
April 10th, 2012
12:39 pm
Facts @ 12:34
Well, then we agree on that.
Hillbilly D
April 10th, 2012
12:43 pm
Real Athens
Been down the kidney stone route, too. If you can pass it, you’re right in it mainly just being a waiting game but sometimes they have to go in and get them and that ain’t no fun at all. And by the way, if there is anything that hurts any worse, I don’t want to know what it is.
Hillbilly D
April 10th, 2012
12:53 pm
Kyle @ 12:23
See my 12:26.
BW
April 10th, 2012
12:53 pm
Kyle
The only thing I like about this bill is changing EMTALA. If people don’t want to buy insurance, then they should not be allowed to shift their costs onto the responsible ones. As said before in last week’s discussion, they are doing the same thing as “Obamacare” and making you buy insurance whether through preferential tax code, law, or instant bankruptcy in the case of castrophic injury. And we are still not addressing the real issue: the increase in medical spending. If we cannot control costs, then coverage is really irrevelant as the spending in Medicare and Medicaid will continue to put pressure on the deficit and debt.
Real Athens
April 10th, 2012
12:54 pm
Hillbilly — You can now be submersed in water and the stones can be crushed via ultrasound waves. People rarely go under the knife. Never had the treatment but my old man has. Pretty amazing.
I can attest to the pain thing. Female Dr. in Denmark (6 ft., buxom, redhead — my kind of Dr.) told me the stones hurt her worse than childbirth.
I can attest that if I had a handgun within reach when I’ve been struck I wouldn’t be typing you now.
Joe Mama
April 10th, 2012
1:00 pm
Tiberius — “Why do you persist in ignoring the thousands of excessive judgments handed down by juries despite having the facts and ignoring them?”
“Tort reform is not about denying the plaintiff due process or the right to seek redress, despite the bleating of you and your ilk to make it so. It is an attempt to corral out-of-control juries and lawyers who seek astronomical judgments for nebulous “pain and suffering” over and above the actual cost of treatment.”
If you maintain that a jury of our peers is not competent to come to an accurate and fair judgment with regard to a malpractice case, then I have to wonder if you feel that such a jury would also not be competent to come to an accurate and fair judgment with regard to a death penalty case.
Hillbilly D
April 10th, 2012
1:02 pm
Real Athens
I have a relative who has had kidney stones for nearly 40 years. Hers is an extreme case but in order to do lithotripsy, which she thinks she’s had 17 times but isn’t sure of the count, they have to know the exact location of the stone, which isn’t always possible. She’s had surgery so many times, she’s lost count of that, too. And she too says having a baby is a piece of cake compared to that (and she had 3, including one over 9 lbs).
Since I’ve evidently inherited whatever it is that causes them, I have quit drinking anything but water and fruit juice and as I told the doctor, I’d eat dog poop if it would guarantee that I’d never have another one. I myself have had the “roto-rooter” thing ( I forget the actual medical term) and it ain’t no day at the beach, for sure.
Real Athens
April 10th, 2012
1:04 pm
Kyle -
as one who has never voted a straight ticket in his life, I’m disappointed in you trumpeting Paul Broun just because he has an R after his name. The guy really is certifiable. Oh, and he lost his medical license a long time ago. His father was truly a great man and would be aghast at what Jr. has become. Do a little research into him. His hypocrisy knows no bounds.
DawgDad
April 10th, 2012
1:06 pm
“If people don’t want to buy insurance, then they should not be allowed to shift their costs onto the responsible ones.”
BW – Why not? Are you a heartless soul to let the people suffer? Why is “insurance” the right and only solution?
Real Athens
April 10th, 2012
1:11 pm
Hillbilly – the Japanese are at the forefront of Kidney Stone research. They now believe the it is not a causation thing but a deficiency. Apparently we here in the “kidney stone belt” (VA to LA) due to genetics or something environmental we lack the ability to keep them from forming.
I had a stone biopsy and the chemist told me it was basically Dr. Pepper in hard form. I’ve never put that crap to my lips.
I try to drink 10 pints of water a day — keep it running clear.
Real Athens
April 10th, 2012
1:20 pm
“Second, it would allow emergency rooms to turn away patients, under EMTALA, that don’t have actual emergencies.”
Who decides what is an emergency? Do you really want a resident in the middle of 12 hour shift at 4 am to decide what an emergency is? Kinda sounds like a “death panel” to me. Don’t cha know, you betcha.
Rafe Hollister
April 10th, 2012
1:29 pm
One of the biggest drivers of cost, I think, is that the hospital/providers are in cahoots with the insurance moguls. Some one please explain to me, what is the point of showing the cost of the service at $10,000 on the providers bill, only to receive the insurance accounting statement and see that they have an contractual agreement to only pay $3695 for that procedure. They pay the hospital/ provider there 90% of that and you are left with the balance.
Does the hospital write off the $6305 that they were not contractually allowed to collect? I know if you do not have insurance they bill you the whole $10,000 amount because they have no contract with you. This practice is ridiculous and they justify it by saying they have to make more on you to make up for those who do not pay.
I wonder if both the hospital/provider and the insurance company don’t somehow profit off the $6305 that goes missing in this equation. Do any of you know what is going on here? I really would like to know if any of you have an answer, even a liberal answer would be appreciated. hah!
BW
April 10th, 2012
1:29 pm
Dawg Dad
The reason this conversation about health care is taking place is due to cost not coverage. Insurance or something that shows you can pay for your treatment is the generally accepted way to reduce costs. The people won’t “suffer” once they decide to get themselves covered. Obviously that pre-existing condition recission thing needs to stay gone. If you have any better ideas, by all means please volunteer them.
Kyle isn’t quite expounding upon this yet but some higher centralized authority, be it government at the state or federal level or the insurance industry, has to intervene to lower the increase of the cost of medical spending if we are to have any chance of hoping to balance our budget…especially if raising taxes are off the table.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
April 10th, 2012
1:30 pm
“If you maintain that a jury of our peers is not competent to come to an accurate and fair judgment with regard to a malpractice case, then I have to wonder if you feel that such a jury would also not be competent to come to an accurate and fair judgment with regard to a death penalty case.”
Because juries “feelings” do not have to come into the equation to know right from wrong, or yes or no.
They have to be engaged in order to come up with damages, especially those of the ridiculous “pain and suffering” kind.
Inside Out
April 10th, 2012
1:38 pm
Ok…Tibs…..
Check out the link….. Then tell me, What does this person deserve?
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/09/17/us/doctor-who-cut-off-wrong-leg-is-defended-by-colleagues.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm
Kyle Wingfield
April 10th, 2012
1:49 pm
Real Athens: “I’m disappointed in you trumpeting Paul Broun just because he has an R after his name”
Well, if you’re going to make assumptions about why I do what I do, you can always find a reason to be “disappointed.”
How about Avik Roy? Do you assume he only wrote his article in Forbes about Broun’s plan because “he has an R after his name”? Is that the only reason any Republican ever gets written about?
Joe Mama
April 10th, 2012
1:51 pm
Tiberius — “Because juries “feelings” do not have to come into the equation to know right from wrong, or yes or no.”
I wasn’t speaking of juries’ feelings. I was asking about *yours.*
Once again, if you don’t feel that a jury is competent to come to a decision in a malpractice case, then do you feel that they are competent to come to a decision in a death penalty case?
Rafe Hollister
April 10th, 2012
2:11 pm
Real Athens
Who decides what is an emergency. I think a resident would be the best choice. Right now, it is the receptionist. Have you ever been to an ER. Unless you arrive in an ambulance you go through a preliminary triage when you check in with the receptionist. Notice how the folks who are bleeding using get moved right along while those with a stomach ache usually have to sit for awhile.
So, I think it would be perfectly OK for a resident to ask you a few questions and refer you to an outpatient clinic next door. One of the biggest drivers of cost is our inability to quickly make a decision and treat or non treat as the doctor decides. Everyone does not need expensive tests and prolonged secondary opinions in order to avoid a malpractice claim.
Real Athens
April 10th, 2012
2:21 pm
Kyle -
Nice straw man.
C’mon, you’re paid to provide a viewpoint of a certain slant. Remember? So yes, that is one of the reasons you write about people with R’s next to their name. However, I consider you informed and literate — even if a little testy today.
Paul Broun is a fool — an exploiter for personal gain. He is elected over and over because he is an incumbent and when he’s up for re-election he becomes a sloganeering, issue exploiting, nincompoop — often times scaring constituents with outright lies. He is the absolute definition of a do-nothing congressman. Find a bill he’s written that you support. Don’t take my word for it. Find out yourself.
Avik Roy is a brilliant man. He is a major proponent of consumer driven healthcare. I gather he knows very little about Paul Broun as well.
@@
April 10th, 2012
2:23 pm
Whoa!
Medicare has higher administrative costs per beneficiary
A more accurate measure of overhead would therefore be the administrative costs per patient, rather than per dollar of medical expenses. And by that measure, even with all the administrative advantages Medicare has over private coverage, the program’s administrative costs are actually significantly higher than those of private insurers. In 2005, for example, Robert Book has shown that private insurers spent $453 per beneficiary on administrative costs, compared to $509 for Medicare. (Indeed, Robert has written the definitive paper on this subject, from which the above figure is taken.)
Remember these points the next time someone tries to tell you that Medicare is “more efficient” than private insurance.
Ain’t nuthin’ efficient OR competent about government run anything. It’s not their money so why should they care? They don’t.
Interesting imbeds at Forbes.
Kyle Wingfield
April 10th, 2012
2:24 pm
Real Athens: Quick: How many times have I written about Paul Broun before today?
Inside Out
April 10th, 2012
2:31 pm
“Is that the only reason any Republican ever gets written about?”
Funny you should say that Kyle….I could turn it around and say that is why so many on the right think that African Americans voted for Obama…… Its silly to assign it to you and silly when those on the right do the same…….
Kyle Wingfield
April 10th, 2012
2:33 pm
Inside Out: So, fight silly with silly?
Real Athens
April 10th, 2012
2:35 pm
Kyle -
I have absolutely no idea. What does that have to do with what I wrote? Are we agreeing – just a little bit here?
.
Please, as a principled conservative, in the future call out this lunatic when he braying to the fringe, or scaring the pants off of seniors and I won’t b*#@h.
Equal time.
Real Athens
April 10th, 2012
2:41 pm
Are you attending the memorial for Professor Fink on the 27th?
Kyle Wingfield
April 10th, 2012
2:43 pm
Real Athens: Yes, I’ll be there.
Real Athens
April 10th, 2012
2:45 pm
“Good on ya.”
Inside Out
April 10th, 2012
2:53 pm
“Santorum drops 2012 bid for president”
http://www.politico.com/
td
April 10th, 2012
3:47 pm
Hillbilly D
April 10th, 2012
12:26 pm
I rent to Canadians every winter and they tell me a totally different story. They say that their HC is fine for routine problems but they have saved some money to come to the US if they need anything serious done.
Real Athens
April 10th, 2012
6:28 pm
Rafe:
FYI: I sat in a hospital emergency waiting room for 4 hours with a dislocated hip and fractured hip socket because I wasn’t “bleeding”. As a result, 18 years later I had a complete hip replacement — because of the damaged blood supply to the hip socket caused by the four hours of waiting for the for the hip to be relocated.
The orthopedic surgeon said the actions of the receptionist and resident in attendance bordered on criminal.
ld
April 10th, 2012
6:34 pm
With the Masters still in mind, think “handicap”.
When Dems say “fairness”, they are trying to apply the “courtesy” of a handicap to the economic “rat race”.
Also, the GOP “trickle down” economics only ended up p*$$ing on the employee class. That it produces American jobs is mostly a lie–unless you’re talking about lower-paying services jobs. It has been during “trickle down” economics that “downsize” and “outsource” became part of our daily lingo and multitudes of manufacturing jobs were moved overseas.
ld
April 10th, 2012
6:40 pm
oops
somehow got this prior post affixed to wrong blog.
Do hope Obamacare is struck down in its entirety by Supremes.
Do not believe any politition has yet come up w/an alternative that doesn’t best serve to line the pockets of their personal constituency.
yuzeyurbrane
April 10th, 2012
6:44 pm
Kyle’s 12:18 challenge for source of 50 million uninsured:
^ 2009 US Census Report: “Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009″ pp 22-28
^ Johnson, Avery (September 17, 2010). “Recession swells number of uninsured to 50.7 million”. The Wall Street Journal: p. A4. Retrieved 2010-11-21.
Wolf, Richard (September 17, 2010). “Number of uninsured Americans rises to 50.7 million”. USA Today: p. 8A. Retrieved 2010-11-21.
DeNavas-Walt, Carmen; Proctor, Bernadette D.; Smith, Jessica C. (September 16, 2010). “Income, poverty, and health insurance coverage in the United States: 2009″. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Census Bureau. Retrieved 2010-11-21.
Roberts, Michelle; Rhoades, Jeffrey A. (August 19, 2010). “The uninsured in America, first half of 2009: estimates for the U.S. civilian noninstituionalized population under age 65. Medical Expenditure Panel Survey, Statistical Brief #291″. Rockville, Md.: Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality (AHRQ). Retrieved 2010-11-21.
Cohen, Robin A.; Martinez, Michael A. (September 22, 2010). “Health insurance coverage: early release of estimates from the National Health Interview Survey, January–March 2010″. Hyattsville, Md.: National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS). Retrieved 2010-11-21.
. (August 26, 2008). “Comparing federal government surveys that count uninsured people in America”. Minneapolis, Minn.: State Health Access Data Assistance Center, School of Public Health, University of Minnesota. Retrieved 2010-11-21.
As to Broun’s proposal, obviously there has been insufficient time to analyze how many non-covered citizens would be covered by it but it is similar enough to other proposals which have been analyzed (viz. Dr. Price’s) to assume that it would be somewhere in the same range of the about 3 million est. for the Price proposal. The AARP did an analysis of the Price proposal when it first came out which supports this which I am sure they will be happy to provide. Nor do I think that Price challenged that number’s accuracy. I would be interested to know what Dr. Broun claims for his proposal and also of course of any independent analysis of that proposal, if there ever is one.
As to the ER issue, I read the post you cited and basically agree with you about the ER fiasco (a visit to any ER at night would be instructive for anyone) but disagree as to whether all states can be trusted to carry out Medicaid’s purposes. Maybe some experimentation is called for before a radical change of that system?