Obamacare’s costs: The hits just keep on coming

Did anyone really think that “This is one f@#$ing big piece of legislation” really had accurate numbers going in? It’s like voting yourself a massive splost tax, thinking after 4 years the politicians would actually retire the tax increase.

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Nothing a pile of money can’t solve. There’s a pile left on the table.

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I like that Kyle! Lets run with that slogan. GM, I guess you picked the same teams as the POTUS in your march madness brackets also?

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Interesting comparing your and Jay’s breakout of the same report.

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Who needs health insurance, when thanks to EMTALA, you can go to an Emergency Room and get treated for free.

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I agree that Obamacare was an poorly thought out plan. We should have stuck with what’s been proven to work: nationalizing the industry.

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Our leftist friends will tell us “nothing new here, folks, move on.” Even democrats are surely beginning to appreciate the magnitude of the disaster wrought by the democrats from Jan 2009 to Jan 2011.

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In addition to the real cost, there is a surcharge for abortion funding. Seems we can tell when Obama is lying; his lips are moving.

http://www.wnd.com/2012/03/1-abortion-surcharge-in-obamacare/?cat_orig=health

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Question: Since conservatives wanted a free market solution….and under the present market, health care costs have been rising at a rate close to 20-30% annually….and many of the contrived solutions won’t work (cross-border sales, tort reform, et. al…..), what solutions do you envision to WORK!!?? The main way to bring down health care costs is single-payer…universal health care!!

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Kyle,

Comparing me to an Obama campaign surrogate (Guggenheim was hired by the Obama re-election team to make the documentary he made), because you think its hilarious that an Obama campaign surrogate doesn’t have anything negative to say about Obama, is a rhetorical tactic of a grade school bully. First of all, the man is…well….an Obama surrogate. Second, I listed several complaints about Obama that I’d be happy to discuss in solidarity with you. But you’re happy to discard that fact because you’re determined to play make-believe to implement your school-yard bullying tactics. That’s a shame because it only highlights your lack of maturity. You can call me names all day long, but I’m still your to criticize you when I think you’re wrong.

Again, the difference you refer to at 12:35 is a difference of two different ten-year periods with various aspects of the law implemented. Compare the cost of projections for the same ten periods, and then get back to us. Otherwise, you’re misleading your readers.

I suspect that your assertion that the law was phased in to create an “illusion” is just your inference based on your unmitigated hatred for President Obama. I believe that it was phased in so that the funds would be available to pay for it and to give federal and state governments time to set up the health insurance exchanges among other components. I think my inference makes more sense than yours, but to each his own.

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kyle wants to go back to skyrocketing costs.

Get over it cons.

You lost.

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Math is hard.

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Unless the Supreme Court bails us out

Conservatives – always looking for a bailout!

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Correct. Democrats were trying to keep the price tag under $1 trillion dollars so that it doesn’t exceed corresponding revenues and savings. I’m not entirely clear on how that is somehow deceiving or dishonest, but you keep insisting that it is.

The 2010-2019 ten year period did measure ten years of the program since the health care law went into effect two years ago. You can’t tell by the lack of media coverage, but many components have been implemented (see my link above). The more complicated components have not been implemented because…they’re complicated. They take time to implement. State health insurance exchanges, for example.

I suggest that highlighting the cost of two years of overlap, 2018 and 2019, is like pulling the two worst days of the stock market, and saying, I told you so. That, in my opinion, is spin. We’re still talking about estimates that, over two decades, have fluctuated by about two percent. The CBO projected over a trillion dollars of deficit reduction over twenty years, and if they overestimated it by a few percentage points, I’m not going to complain.

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It’s a sign of faulty logic to assume that the only price we are paying is in premiums. The quality of medical care is already suffering. The debts that are being created will have to be paid at some point.

Doctors are leaving, taking their experience and knowledge with them. What costs are you willing to attribute to that?

And when you lovers of single payer are unhappy with the system, what’s your plan? Quit? Go elsewhere? Overturn Obamacare?

300 million people making choices is much better than one person making the choice for you. You really want your health depending on ANY President sitting around a table, determining what should be covered?

It’s really hard to believe that some of you have even thought this through, other than you might be able to get something for nothing.

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“First of all, the man is…well….an Obama surrogate. ”

And the only difference between Bart Abel and Mr. Guggenheim is that the former isn’t being paid to be an Obama surrogate.

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“and many of the contrived solutions won’t work (cross-border sales, tort reform, et. al…..),”

And your proof would be – where, exactly, HDB?

“The main way to bring down health care costs is single-payer…universal health care!!”

Single payer doesn’t address the issue of COST. It simply addresses the issue of ACCESS.

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“I say, Medicare for all who want it! ”

Yeah, Rockerbabe! Let’s throw another 50 million people into a system that is going broke faster than Social Security!

What a great idea!

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“We as a Nation, spent about the same amount in a sandbox called IRAQ and we know how that turned out. All we got was a pair of GOOSE EGGS! Where was your outrage,when W wasted so much more? How much of a cost has it been to remove troops and support from Afghanistan to IRAQ and to AFGHANISTAN again?”

This is known in the business as a deflection, used specifically when someone has no capable defense of their position on the actual topic at hand.

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Would it take one to smell one ?

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Only a properly conditioned prole looks for nine robed government lawyers to “bail” them out.
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I personally could care less what the supremes say……..as does any other real man.
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Prole.

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Kyle, did you bother to read the CBO report? Because the CBO seems to think that Obamacare doesn’t increase the deficit. But hey, don’t let the what the CBO thinks affect your so called reporting on what the CBO thinks.

If you did read the CBO report, then you probably owe your readers an explanation for why you are lying to them.

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Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!

March 14th, 2012
1:47 pm

To answer your question — from EXPERIENCE!!

Here’s why free market solutions WON’T work:

1) Take a health insurance policy sold in MS to a patient in NY. That policy will only cover as MS-rates. Same patient has cancer and gets treated at Sloan-Kettering/MD Anderson. MS rates plus deductible will not cover treatment rates of Sloan-Kettering. Patient goes bankrupt.

2) Patient purchases multiple coverages to cover the hole in coverage. Insurance companies argue over who has primary coverage…and NEITHER pays. Patient goes bankrupt while suing insurance companies over coverage

3) Doctors in one HMO coverage may not be accepted by insurance companies although the coverage is exactly the same. Example: HMO doctors in BCBS/Iowa will not be paid by BCBS/GA for routine maintenance although the networks and negotiated costs are the same!!

My family and I have EXPERIENCED these….the only way is universal health care. That coverage has negotiated rates by the government which will drop the costs to the consumer…spread the costs…..

Another option is a hybrid of universal coverage: a govenment-level HMO with purchased coverage for catastrophic occurrances.

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Single payer doesn’t address the issue of COST.

I’d agree with that for the most part. There could be some administrative costs savings in a doctor’s office, just due to not having to deal with so many different policies, etc. but that would be a small percentage, in the grand scheme of things, I would think. It also would take out the profit of the 3rd party, which again, is probably not that great of a percentage.

The fact is, nobody’s plan that I’ve seen, from single payer to let ‘em eat cake or anything in between, deals with costs in any way.

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HDB, your experience is worth NOTHING, as you have not experienced anything remotely as envisioned by the GOP’s multiple solutions to the cost and accessibility to health care.

Nice try, though (NOT!).

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This administration can’t help itself when it comes to running up costs on every facet of life. It’s just political payback to those hardcore constituents. Besides this dreadful piece of legislation look at some of the regulations HIS administration is adopting. The public swimming pool rule to go into effect tomorrow is a prime example as payback to the lowly trial lawyers. Extorting public pools to retrofit a lift for wheel chairs into pools is just what this country needs for summer. Who benefits when the first chair bound swimmer drowns?

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Obamacare comes up short? Whodathunkit!!??!!

Forget about Obozo…can we call him President Pipsqueak?

schnirt

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I stick by my comment Tiberius,

“Robamneycare could very well end up costing a lot less than the CBO projections.”

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t- anyone ever tried to teach you to sing, they wasted their time now didn’t they ? You already knew how to sing better than anyone.

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“Tiberius, the only thing Republicans did for health care recently is Medicare D which actually did add hundreds of billions to the deficit, unlike Obama care. Other than that they seem to be fine with the status quo.”

Right you are Erik, unfunded socialist Medicare Part D did add billions to our deficit. The Republicans probably thought the Bush tax cuts would pay for it.

The CBO got it wrong, just as Tiberius thinks will be the case with Robamneycare. In fact the CBO projected Medicare Part D would cost a lot MORE than it has. Imagine that.

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I have yet to see a single government program which actually cost us less than it was projected to do, DannyX.

You?

So why do you even remotely think that Obamacare will be the first to do so, when the bill was crafted with little input from the people who actually know health care?

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Kyle @2:05

Sorry. Three months into 2012, and I still forget that it’s not 2011 anymore. As a result, I though that pdf was a few weeks old. Here’s the link to the report that the CBO just released: http://cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/03-13-Coverage%20Estimates.pdf

Here are some excerpts:

“CBO and JCT now estimate that the insurance coverage provisions of the ACA will have a net cost of just under $1.1 trillion over the 2012–2021 period—about $50 billion less than the agencies’ March 2011 estimate for that 10-year period…”

“Those amounts do not encompass all of the budgetary impacts of the ACA because that legislation has many other provisions, including some that will cause significant reductions in Medicare spending and others that will generate added tax revenues, relative to what would have occurred under prior law.”

“Compared with prior law, the ACA is now estimated by CBO and JCT to reduce the number of nonelderly people without health insurance coverage by 30 million to 33 million in 2016 and subsequent years”

“CBO and JCT have previously estimated that the ACA will, on net, reduce budget deficits over the 2012–2021 period; that estimate of the overall budgetary impact of the ACA has not been updated.”

To review, original CBO estimates were that there would be slight savings in the first decade (2010 – 2019) and about $1 trillion in savings in the second decade (2020-2029). Overall, the health care law results in coverage for millions of Americans and is likely to reduce deficits over the course of decades. That’s not my opinion or “spin.” That’s what the CBO says.

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Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!

March 14th, 2012
2:24 pm

Tort reform didn’t work…..look at the rise in health care costs in TEXAS as example…..plus all tort reform does is to deny and/or limit a person the right to seek redress. Isn’t that unconstitutional??

Plus….this is an interesting take…..

The Republican case for implementing Obamacare
David Merritt, who formerly ran Newt Gingrich’s Center for Health Care Transformation and currently advises the candidate on health policy issues, argues that Republicans should get going on implementing President Obama’s health reform law — even if they really don’t like it:

On Monday, the Department of Health and Human Services released a final rule governing the exchanges. The rule sets an ambitious timeline for getting the exchanges up and running in every state by January 1, 2014. Between now and then, states can either build their own exchanges and tailor them as much as federal law will allow or decide not to build exchanges at all.

But there’s a catch: If states don’t build their own exchanges, the federal government will do it for them.

If states do not move forward on their own, the federal government will. Because of this fact alone, states should move forward with creating their own exchanges. It’s better for states to exert some control over the structure of their exchanges than to abdicate control to Washington.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/the-republican-case-for-implementing-obamacare/2012/03/14/gIQAt6YkBS_blog.html

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HDB

March 14th, 2012
12:55 pm

How do you know tort reform and cross border sales will not work?

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“including some that will cause significant reductions in Medicare spending”

Which is then pushed off the the STATES to pay for, so no reductions at all.

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“That would be incorrect, DannyX, as the vast majority of your posts seem to be.”

Yes, it is correct. Medicare Part D has come in way under CBO estimates.

http://www.cbpp.org/files/5-6-11health.pdf

There are tons of other sources that will verify it, the Wall St Journal for one.

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That means they work FOR Congress and are beholden to them for their jobs.

That’s BS. When you are hired to give objective analysis, if you don’t have the stones to put out the best work you can – not the best work some individual wants – then you have embraced corruption. I say you give those folks the benefit of objective analysis.

Remember, this isn’t the Heritage Foundation.

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DannyX, from a letter to Bill Thomas on Ways and Means in 2005:

“That change added about $6 billion to the projected cost of the Part D program over the 2004-2013 period, raising it from $552 billion to $558 billion.”

Ten years, estimated to be $558 billion.

Now look where the current 10 year cycle gets us:

“Projected net expenditures from 2009 through 2018 are estimated to be $727.3 billion.”

Just a bit higher, wouldn’t you agree (but what’s 30% increases when it’s not YOUR money, right)?

Again, failure on your part.

Off to mow the south 40 . . .

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More than half a million NHS procedures and treatments a year are bungled. And yet only 5,000 of them…less than 1 percent…lead to a claim for compensation. Why?

Peter Walsh of Action Against Medical Accidents says it’s because “They’re embarrassed to even raise the question of potential compensation. And people tell us often that this is because of the stigma attached to seeking compensation or suing health professionals or the NHS.”

Afraid to look a gift horse in the mouth? What better way to rid themselves of cost than for government to shame them into submission.

From one extreme here in America, to another extreme in the U.K.

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/life/british-reluctant-sue-health-system

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“The Medicare trustees report that federal outlays for Part D, netting out premiums paid by enrollees and payments made by states to “claw back” some Medicaid savings, totaled $214 billion through 2010. By 2013, we will have spent $375 billion — 32 percent less than the CBO estimate.”

You better high tail it out of here Tiberius. Your “letter” proves nothing at all.

My link proves the case I made. The CBO projections were 32% higher than the actual cost!

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“My link proves the case I made. The CBO projections were 32% higher than the actual cost!”

I suggest you re-read your link, DannyX. It’s not saying what you think it’s saying (I realize depth isn’t what you specialize in).

We’ll see if you can figure it out.

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Replace Obama’s Affordable Care Act by reforming the tax code to grant individuals the same tax advantages that businesses currently enjoy when buying health insurance. It would do wonders to stimulate competition. So would permitting people to purchase insurance across state lines. And market-friendly tools such as health savings accounts, health reimbursement accounts, flexible spending accounts, high-deductible health plans, and vouchers for seniors, the working poor, and the chronically uninsured would both expand coverage and lower costs.

President Obama’s way isn’t the only way out.

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Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!

Name one bill W. pushed to over haul health care? I’m still waiting

I guess Obama spent the billions in Iraq? you hate him that bad that you are out of reality and facts

Name 3 important things W. did for America?
1. 4500 America Troops dead in Iraq
2. 3500 Americans died in NY
3. Caused the worst economy collaps in America history.

Yet you right nuts wings have the nerve to talk about President Obama, what a joke

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…for those who use Texas as an example….

Texas health premiums cost more, buy less
By TODD ACKERMAN, HOUSTON CHRONICLE
Updated 12:09 p.m., Monday, November 21, 2011

Texas employer-sponsored health insurance is costing more and buying less, a new report says.

The state-by-state report, released Thursday, found that between 2003 and 2010 such premiums in Texas rose 52 percent for families and 46 percent for individuals. In addition, both groups’ deductibles more than doubled, regardless of whether the person worked in a small or large firm.

“This is a national trend, but Texas’ numbers are particularly pronounced,” said Cathy Schoen, the report’s lead author and the senior vice president for The Commonwealth Fund, which has produced the report the last three years. “They’ve gone from rising slower than the national average to faster.”

The report shows health insurance costs’ continuing strain on the budgets of U.S. families and individuals. Employer premiums now account for at least 20 percent of the average household incomes of people under 65 in a majority of states, including Texas.

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Texas-health-premiums-cost-more-buy-less-2273332.php

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For those of you still thinking Big O isn’t pretty smart, consider:

His champion, for the third time in five years, is UNC.

Nuff said

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Liar Liar is off the blog for handle-stealing. Once again, @@ makes ‘em so mad as to go batty.

AHhh MAN! I missed “it” AGAIN!!!!

Was is something I said downstairs? ‘Cause I hadn’t even posted up here.

Is it a permanent ban, Kyle? I’m opposed to those since I was the recipient of one.

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“Name one bill W. pushed to over haul health care?”

“W” didn’t that I know of, however, you’re now moving the goal posts, as you first complained about “Republicans”. So, OK, Gm, here’s THREE from 2009 that never even got committee hearings in their Democrat-controlled chambers:

“In May, Republicans in the House and the Senate formed a bicameral coalition to produce the130-page “Patients Choice Act of 2009.”
In June, Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) introduced the “Health Care Freedom Plan,” a 41-page proposal.
And in July, the Republican Study Committee, under the leadership of Rep. Tom Price (R-Ga.), unveiled the “Empowering Patients First Act,” a 130-page plan.”

I do so hope three was enough for you, Gm.

“Name 3 important things W. did for America?
1. 4500 America Troops dead in Iraq
2. 3500 Americans died in NY
3. Caused the worst economy collaps in America history. ”

Seriously? You’re BLAMING Bush for 9/11? Really?

Was Cheney secretly stringing explosives in the Twin Towers on the evening of 9/10?

Oh, and your #3 is completely false, as has been shown time and time again on this and other sites, but you keep believing it, Gm!

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“Now, where is that apology?”

I never apologize for being right, DannyX.

Now, have you figured out yet where your reading comprehension has failed you again?

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Sorry, Tiberius, I had not read your post @ 4:12 when I put mine in. Did not mean to overlap!

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Patients CHOICE Act?

Healthcare FREEDOM Plan?

EMPOWERING Patients First Act?

Compared to THE affordable (NOT REALLY) care ACT.

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Kyle’s article omits the increased costs to the states.
The CBO originally estimated that increased state spending on Medicaid would be $20 B between ‘17 & ‘19, whereas Kaiser estimated that it would be $43.2 B thru ‘19. The CBO later estimated $60 B thru ‘21.
The CBO’s new findings indicate another 17 million people will be added to Medicaid by ‘22, than previously predicted.
Not only will Obamacare bankrupt the USA, but it will take the already insolvent states down the same rabbit hole.
The fed. govt. & most of the state govts. are broke.
There will be NO Medicare.
There will be NO Medicaid.

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Gm@3:47 claims that Bush could fly 4 airplanes all at the same time. Somehow, I missed that.
Gm also thinks that Obama walks on water. Somehow, I missed that, too.

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Its the profits (in many cases gouging) of the health care industry that is causeing the gov’t greif that brought reform on. Medicare is being ripped off by the same folks that would be out of business if it did not exist. Where would the hospitals be, who could afford their cost if not for the govt ? Smart things can be done, some don’t want to be smart.

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Linda

March 14th, 2012
4:35 pm

I have heard that the changes to Medicaid in Georgia will cost the state an additional $2 to $4 billion a year. Can you say additional cuts to education to pay for the people to sorry to get their own insurance,

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This is just the tip of the iceberg……to those that think the ACA has been implemented, they may want to read up on why the States took it to court in the first place……..because the administrative costs to implement are the burden of the States. And if one hasn’t been paying attention, the States are cash poor…………if the Supremes don’t strike it down, look for mega pain to be inflicted within the States, especially those that require balanced budgets.

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Fund up and get the ball rolling.

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“It is the law, you should show some respect for the law.”

Only myrmidons blindly show respect for the law, especially a bad one.

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Jefferson@4:54, Republicans will make you liberals a deal. We’ll show respect for the law if you guys will show respect for the constitution. Since that deal will wipe out Obamacare & half of the departments & agencies in DC & 75% of the laws congress has passed, our deal should also solve the deficit problem, the unemployment problem & all of our economic problems.
What do you say? Handshake?

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Only myrmidons blindly show respect for the law, especially a bad one.

Spoken like the next great Underground Militia “Take Back Our Country By Killing Innocent People Cause They’re Necessary Fodder” President.

Tim McVeigh would be proud….

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AmVet @ 2:54

Like you I’m also opposed to Obamacare. I think a golden opportunity was lost to actually do something about the healthcare system. This should be called the Insurance Industry Relief Act, in my opinion, because that’s who is going to benefit the most from it. It’ll probably be another 20-30 years before an opportunity rolls around again.

@@ 3:01

Good for you but in that situation you have the option of shopping around. When you’re sick, you don’t have the time or the luxury of being able to shop around. In the event you get rolled in somewhere on a stretcher, you don’t have any options on anything, you go where they take you and that’s that.

I would warn people to be very careful with those “high-deductable” policies. A person I know had one of those and when it came time to use it, they found out, way deep in the fine print, that it covers in-patient only. In today’s medical system, you can spend hundreds of thousands of dollars, without ever being an in-patient. Buyer beware and don’t trust your agent.

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Heaven help is if the Supreme Court doesn’t.

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“Spoken like the next great Underground Militia “Take Back Our Country By Killing Innocent People Cause They’re Necessary Fodder” President.

Tim McVeigh would be proud…. ”

Spoken like the “I was just following orders because it was the law” National Socialist hack that you are, DebbieDoRight.

Adolph would be so proud of you. . .

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Medical insurance premiums keep rising each year. At some point in the future, it will take every cent of your salary just to pay these premiums. So, Govt. will have to intervene before then and that is what Obamacare is all about. The Medical Industry knows this and will squeeze every dollar they can out of the American people before being forced to abandon their obsene and greed driven profit madness.

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carlosgvv: Medical insurance premiums keep rising each year.
————————-

If you find health insurance to be a bad deal, don’t buy it. Duh.

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Gm…..what exactly is the difference, spending wise, between obama’s 1T stimulus plan and Bush’s 1T war?

If one is honest with themselves, they know it’s nothing.

Now, regardless of which spouse did the spending, the bill is now due……

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Wuh OH!!!!

AmVet–DannyX, all I had to do was show up here the day before yesterday and Do What went absolutely berserk. Talk about throwing tantrums. To his credit, the host deep sixed him in no time flat.

Kyle Wingfield — 2. As always, be forewarned: Anyone who posts comments gloating about Do What and Trash Superstar will also be put in moderation.

AMVET NEEDS TO BE DEEP SIXED!

Flattery To his credit, the host deep sixed him in no time flat. should get him nowhere. Rules are rules.

schnirt

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“Ask yourself this: What did America get out of the billions spent in IraQ”

Actually, about the same number of jobs…….private contractors, factory workers, supply deliveries, etc etc

As I said, monetarily about the same……they were both stimulus spending.

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Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Sounds like a WINNER TO ME.

Protect me and give me affordable care.

PPACA reforms certain aspects of the private health insurance industry and public health insurance programs, increases insurance coverage of pre-existing conditions, expands access to insurance to over 30 million Americans, and increases projected national medical spending while lowering projected Medicare spending.

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The GOPscare vs Obamacare: give me affordable care.
———-

Back in the old days, people paid for things the wanted or needed.

Welcome to Obozo’s Handout Nation.

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Hillbilly:

Our policy covers both in-patient and out-patient. It works in conjunction with an HSA. First time in all the years we’ve had it that MY deductible has been purt near depleted. That’s the reason I’m at war. It’s MY money they’re wheelin’ & dealin’ with.

I DO love a good fight.

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Nobody, whether its Dems. or Reps., will kick me, stomp me, put me in my place, or USE me as a pawn to further their political agenda, especially over pills that cost $9 per month.

Are we allowed to talk about cheap women?

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“Welcome to Obozo’s Handout Nation.”

Guess who has/had their hands out?

Sonny Perdue, while Congressional Republicans were screaming about the stimulus Sonny fired off a letter to Obama begging for additional stimulus dollars. At the time Sonny was representing every single Republican governor as head of the Republican Governors Association. Every single Republican governor signed the letter. Rick Perry used the Texas share to save the Texas surplus.

Who else had their handout? I’ll bet Lil Barry and Tiberius did when they accepted their own stimulus checks. Did you guys send the $250 back?

Nathan Deal sure has his hand out, begging for strings attached federal Race to the Top dollars he said he wouldn’t accept. Cha-ching, $500 million. Deal also begged for transportation dollars and of course port pork, cha-ching.

Put your hands down.

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Let’s not forget the lie that “if you like your insurance and dr., you can keep them”:

“Four million Americans will lose employer-provided health insurance – In just one year, 2016, CBO now predicts four million more Americans will lose the health insurance they have through the workplace than CBO predicted just last year. This will force these hardworking Americans to purchase government-mandated health insurance in government-run exchanges or pay a penalty.

More employers choose to pay a fine over providing health insurance – Many economists, and even some companies admitted, that it would be cheaper (and thus more profitable) for employers to pay the employer mandate penalty than to provide their workers with health insurance coverage. The new JCT/CBO analysis confirms more and more employers are dumping insurance coverage, largely because of the costly benefit package being mandated by the Obama Administration. In fact, JCT/CBO now predicts businesses will opt to pay an additional $15 billion in penalties instead of providing health insurance coverage to their employees.”

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Linda – based on your comments of the last few hrs – I suspect you had/have the temerity to pay for your own (gasp) birth control.

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@Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)

March 14th, 2012
6:08 pm
The GOPscare vs Obamacare: give me affordable care.
———-

Back in the old days, people paid for things the wanted or needed.

Welcome to Obozo’s Handout Nation.
***********************************************************

BACK IN THE OLD DAYS, people were more compassionate told others.

But during the GREAT DEPRESSION the Song,” Brother Can You Spare A Dime” asks why the men

who built the nation – built the railroads, built the skyscrapers – who fought in the war

World War I), who tilled the earth, who did what their nation asked of them should,

now that the work is done and their labor no longer necessary, find themselves

abandoned, in bread lines.

IS THIS HOW WE SHOULD TREAT PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?

TURN OUR BACK ON THEM?

WHAT IF ONE DAY YOU WERE ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE?

NEVER SAY NEVER

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What a bunch of phony poutrage!

“IS THIS HOW WE SHOULD TREAT PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?

TURN OUR BACK ON THEM?”

It’s not the people who TRY to find work and TRY to do whatever they can to get by, it’s the people who use government as their FIRST resort when times get bad that we object to.

“WHAT IF ONE DAY YOU WERE ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE?”

I was. I STILL never took a dime of government money I didn’t work for. No welfare. No unemployment, No SS. No Medicare. No family assistance. NOTHING

“NEVER SAY NEVER”

That SHOULD be the watchword of the responsible people. Sadly, it’s become the rallying cry for those who look for handouts.

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@ Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin…

March 14th, 2012
7:39 pm
US soldiers were asked to disarm during a speech by Leon Panetta, the American defence secretary, in a sign of grown concern over spates of seemingly random violence in Afghanistan.

They’ve been disarmed ever since obozo took this war over, just sayin…
**************************************************************************************

THAT is a bold face REPUBLICAN LIE.

JUS SAYIN’

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“Why do you want to PUNISH the RESPONSIBLE PEOPLE who fell on HARD TIMES for the OTHERS who look for HANDOUTS?”

Why do you assume I do?

“However, if I could have gotten TEMPORARY HELP I would have ACCEPTED IT.”

That’s your problem, not mine. And it shouldn’t be my problem to pay for your tiredness and soreness.

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@Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!

March 14th, 2012
7:55 pm
“Why do you want to PUNISH the RESPONSIBLE PEOPLE who fell on HARD TIMES for the OTHERS who look for HANDOUTS?”

Why do you assume I do?

“However, if I could have gotten TEMPORARY HELP I would have ACCEPTED IT.”

That’s your problem, not mine. And it shouldn’t be my problem to pay for your tiredness and soreness.
*********************************************************************************

And I hope YOU burn in Hades FOREVER.

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Mr. GOPscare@8:12, A liberal who believes in hell & damnation? Praise, be the Lord!

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@Linda

March 14th, 2012
8:17 pm
Mr. GOPscare@8:12, A liberal who believes in hell & damnation? Praise, be the Lord!
*******************************************************************

I REBUKE satan everyday……In the name of Jesus.

AMEN

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[...] care cost estimate keeps changingmsnbc.com (blog)CBO lowers health reform cost estimateCBS NewsAtlanta Journal Constitution (blog) -CNNall 393 news [...]

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[...] care cost estimate keeps changingmsnbc.com (blog)CBO lowers health reform cost estimateCBS NewsAtlanta Journal Constitution (blog) -CNNall 393 news [...]

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Obama has been a lying sack of $hit since the begininng. Wake up People this Muslim Communist little dictator has to go. If not then the liberal racist perverts of the democratic party will finish off this Nation for good. So be smart and don’t let them do this to our country. American Blacks get the racist chip off your shoulders and help your Country by voting this traitor Obama out of office. Their is much better Black Canidates to vote for if you have to vote for your skin color. That includes you too Samuel E.Jackson.

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Look, Liberals eat their children, I think many of us can agree that the current Disaster-in-Chief is a pretty lousy President, and while you’re entitled to your opinion, even I think that calling him a “traitor” is over the top.

A little less hyperbole would move the conversation forward, ya know?

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Liberals eat@8:40, I agree with everything you said, but I disagree with your delivery. Conservatives do not need to stoop as low as liberals to make our points. Conservatives are ladies & gentlemen. To accentuate your points, read this:

http://www.broowaha.com/articles/7348/how-liberal-are-you-just-a-progressive-or-even-a-communist

I guarantee that it will make your blood boil.

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“under Obama’s plan I’ll have to help pay the cost. ”

That is an outright LIE.”

Sorry, but as long as Obamacare is funded through the general revenues of this nation, we ALL pay the cost.

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The GOPscare vs Obamacare
“YA’LL good ol’ grits eating boys KEEP DREAMING.

Educated white women, black women, hispanic women along with other supporters of OBAMA are going to KICK the ANGRY REPUBLICAN WHITE MEN BEHINDS.”

What about your boy Bill Maher? He used the same word and many more about Educated White Women many times and none of you angry n e g r o s or stupid perverted liberals cared about that. Did you? You only care for the plantation of the DNC and little black sambo Obama.

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And you’re approaching it, GOPscare.

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@Linda

March 14th, 2012
8:52 pm
Liberals eat@8:40, I agree with everything you said, but I disagree with your delivery. Conservatives do not need to stoop as low as liberals to make our points. Conservatives are ladies & gentlemen.
*****************************************************************************************

“Conservatives do not need to stoop ”

OH YEAH?

A CONSERVATIVE WHO STOOPED.

Linda
January 13th, 2012
10:05 pm
Vampire@9:41, 9:54 & 9:56, You need to lay off your booze or drugs. What is wrong with you? Do you think conservatives on this blog will be impressed by a sot or a drug user? Best of luck to you.

heeheeheeheehee

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Well, let’s see….

MarkV
You can take me seriously today. Question: do you really think that the economy has improved so much in the last three years that you can call it an accomplishment?

Can you honestly call everything good (debt, economy, healthcare) under the Obama administration ? Can you possibly do that? I can’t.

The debt has increased enormously in the last three years. Don’t dodge. The debt is there.

The economy is so shaky and unproductive in the last three years that “stimulus” has almost become a bad joke.

Healthcare is so confused that nobody can get it straight. Doctors, hospitals, insurance, business and even the courts are trying to get the mess called ObamaCare in some sort of order. There is so much uincertainty that it hinders progress in many areas…and healthcare is much the same as it was before the great meddling began. We may need some changes but not a tsunami of tangles and confusion.

You asked. Now answer. Also tell me; why you wish to ignore the obvious.

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“Why don’t you write about how much the two wars we’re still trying to get out cost.”

“The Kid” has just employed what is known in the business as a deflection, always used by people who cannot submit a rational argument on the topic at hand.

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Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate! Who made you judge and Jury. Go and read the attactment from Linda it is completely true and factural. http://www.broowaha.com/articles/7348/how-liberal-are-you-just-a-progressive-or-even-a-communist

I guarantee that it will make your blood boil

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GVO:

Something in my 9:09 discredited me!!??!! Do tell.

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stranger@8:55, You ARE strange. Ms. Fluke attends a school that charges over $62,000 per year tuition/room where graduates START OUT earning over $150,000 per year. She can’t afford $9 per month for pills?

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Mr. GOP scare@8:56, There were weapons of mass destruction, so said the govts. of the world & the UN. You are delusional. Your questions should be, ” What happened to them? Where are they NOW?”

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Liberals eat@8:57, You are a liberal, posing as a conservative. Only liberals talk that kind of trash. You should be ashamed of yourself.

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@Linda

March 14th, 2012
9:30 pm
Mr. GOP scare@8:56, There were weapons of mass destruction, so said the govts. of the world & the UN. You are delusional. Your questions should be, ” What happened to them? Where are they NOW?”
**********************************

We CAN”t ask Hussein.

We CAN”T ask Bin Laden.

hmmmmmmmmmm

What about Gee Dub?

heeheeheeheehee

Oh, he STARTED THAT LIE didn’t he?

Q: Were there really weapons of mass destruction in Iraq when the U.S. invaded in 2003?

A: No. The Iraq Survey Group determined that Iraq had abandoned its quest to develop chemical, biological and nuclear weapons and that it had already destroyed all of its existing stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons.

FULL QUESTION

I have friends in Texas, Seattle and Tennessee who say President Bush was right that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. They claim that the weapons were hidden in caves in the mountains, and are still hidden there, but we have not found them yet. Where did they get such ideas, and is there even the slightest chance they are right, and if so why wouldn’t Bush have said this? How did such a belief get started, and is there a way I can dispel them of the idea?

FULL ANSWER

As for how you dispel your friends’ notions that Iraq really did have stockpiles of chemical or biological weapons when President Bush no longer makes such claims himself, we suggest ridicule. If that doesn’t work, you may be out of luck.

After the invasion of Iraq in 2003, the Bush administration formed the Iraq Survey Group and tasked it with the job of locating WMD stockpiles in Iraq. The ISG was staffed with hundreds of intelligence analysts and military personnel from the United States, the United Kingdom and Australia. The group scoured Iraq, searching for deposits of weapons. But that was actually only part of the ISG’s focus.

According to the ISG final report, the search for WMDs actually began during the invasion phase of Operation Iraqi Freedom. A military task force was deployed to investigate suspected WMD sites on the theory that the Iraqi military might otherwise employ those weapons against coalition troops. After the invasion, the ISG was established to conduct “a more systematic collection of evidence to build an understanding of Iraqi WMD programs.” In other words, the ISG did not simply look for WMDs. The group also looked at Iraq’s WMD capabilities and examined evidence relating to past WMD stockpiles.

During its investigation, the ISG reported that “[a] total of 53 munitions have been recovered, all of which appear to have been part of pre-1991 Gulf war stocks based on their physical condition and residual components.” These isolated discoveries received significant media attention, and it’s likely that these overhyped reports contributed to your friends’ beliefs that Iraq really did possess WMDs.
.

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MarkV

My answer is quite honest. You just can’t accept reality. If you take one positive step over the line, such as our economy has done, it does not make it a winning race. We are still far behind.

Answer yes or no (honestly please): Has the national debt grown much larger the last three years?

Do you consider the economy in GOOD shape?

Do you think that Obamacare is well planned and financially possible as is currently constructed?

Do you think high unemployment is good even if it has dropped slightly in the past year?

I feel sure you will answer each question without prejudice or political persuasion. Uh huh…

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“So now YOU ALL are the BLOG POLICE.”

Nope. Just issuing friendly warnings based on Kyle’s recent posts regarding civility.

“I can’t help if some of US are creative and some of YOU are mediocre”

Trust me. There is NOTHING about you that is even remotely associated with the word creative.

Creepy? Yes. Creative? Not so much.

“YOU AIN’T THE BOSS OF ME.”

Good thing, too. I would have fired your a$$ long ago.

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GVO:

The term is derived from the name of the liberal musician Moby, who famously suggested in February of 2004 that left-wing activists engage in this type of subterfuge.

Talk to Moby. He’s the one that started it all.

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Seems some here don’t know the difference between a can’t and a won’t……

As for Iraq, some also need to understand that Congress was in on it……and let’s not visit the bs about they were lied to. Congress critters have the power to initiate their own investigations…..and at the time, they too went with what they thought they knew.

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The Kid@9:11, Anyone can go to the website to see how much the wars have cost & is costing.

http://costofwar.com/en/

The fact still remains that the economic stimulus bill passed by Obama & the Dems. 2/09 cost the same amt. that both wars had cost us at that time. It’s also true that the amt. spent on the economic stimulus bill, which raised unemployment by over 2%, was equivalent to what the US owed to China as of 2/09.
You are a pawn, kid.

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“Why? The DNC, the Obama’s and his adminstration use them on others.”

They are not Kyle Wingfield’s blog with HIS rules, Liberals eat their children.

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We have a “market solution” right now to deal with the uninsured. That solution consists of piling their healthcare costs onto our premiums and our taxes. Do you really think that “free” treatment at emergency rooms and hospitals doesn’t cost anything?

All we got with the ACA was more profits for insurance companies and more debt for us. Instead of going to a single-payer system, our Congress chose to go with a half-baked solution that guarantees continuation of the present costly system.

If you’re going to blast “Obamacare” at least propose something better. What’s better—continuing to pile the cost of treating the uninsured on the rest of us, while pretending that everything is fine, or coming up with a system that provides medical care to all? Or should we go to the Afghanistant/Pakistan model—death in the streets if you’re poor?

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Fred:

You’re among the many reasons I’ve opted out of jay’s.

With all due respect, I find your comments over there to be among the goofiest.

So tell me, Fred…have you made up your mind whether you like me or not? Should I care?

schnirt

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“This baby killer is getting on my nerves.”

As usual, IRYW, you are incorrect in your aSSumption about me, as I have never killed a baby (or anyone else for that matter) in my entire life.

Epic fail on your part (again).

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GOPscare@9:39, I don’t have time to read your entire rant. My onions are caramelizing. Anyway, here’s a video of Democratic congress people who supported the Iraq war & who thoroughly accessed the threat of weapons of mass destruction, as they were required to do, under law.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5p-qIq32m8

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@Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!

March 14th, 2012
9:43 pm
“So now YOU ALL are the BLOG POLICE.”

Nope. Just issuing friendly warnings based on Kyle’s recent posts regarding civility.

“I can’t help if some of US are creative and some of YOU are mediocre”

Trust me. There is NOTHING about you that is even remotely associated with the word creative.

Creepy? Yes. Creative? Not so much.

“YOU AIN’T THE BOSS OF ME.”

Good thing, too. I would have fired your a$$ long ago
******************************************

THANK YOU.

I will SAVE THIS 2.

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@Linda

March 14th, 2012
10:16 pm
GOPscare@9:39, I don’t have time to read your entire rant. My onions are caramelizing. Anyway, here’s a video of Democratic congress people who supported the Iraq war & who thoroughly accessed the threat of weapons of mass destruction, as they were required to do, under law.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5p-qIq32m8
***********************************************

Linda,

I don’t have time to VIEW YOUR VIDEO. My onions are caramelizing TOO .

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@Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!

March 14th, 2012
9:56 pm
Well, Fred won’t be lasting here much longer.

Guess he didn’t read Kyle’s rules, either.

No loss once he’s gone, too.
*****************************************************************************

If Kyle BAN Fred, he is a hypocrite.

If Kyle is INFLUENCED by some of you and ban people who disagree with you he is a hypocrite.

I have saved RESPONSES from his YOU AND regular bloggers that are so NASTY, DISRESPECTFUL, VULGAR and LACED WITH PROFANITY.

Especially against the President of the United States.

What Fred said was TAME compared to what I have READ in the past.

Fred ™
March 14th, 2012
9:46 pm
@@
March 14th, 2012
9:25 pm

GVO:

Something in my 9:09 discredited me!!??!! Do tell.
++++++++++++++++++++++

Hey two boobs. You post here now instead of Jay’s? Can’t say I blame you, seems to be a definite drop in IQ over here. More follow along sheep…….

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GOPscare@10:23, Proof that your mind is closed. Who needs to bother with the truth when he/she/it is a liberal?
My comment was 1 inch. Yours was at least a foot. Who reads that stuff?
You lied about having onions caramelizing. You can’t even spell it correctly, & I detect no aroma coming from your rants.

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@Linda

March 14th, 2012
10:31 pm
What the Obama worshipers don’t realize is that Obama is merely a politician, a great politician. He does not walk on water nor does he have his own stash of money. What is worse than a politician is a lawyer that is a politician, which is what Obama is. Obama never had any experience in the economy, that is creating one single job. He has no idea how the economy even works.
*********************************************************

What the Obama HATERS don’t realize is that Obama is a GREAT politician. IF HE did walke on

water REPUBLICANS WOULD SAY OBAMA CAN’T SWIM.

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GOPscare@10:52, I’ve already agreed with you that Obama is a great politician, but that is all he is.
@10:57, Proof that you are entirely delusional. Get a handle. I understand that you are upset that your Disaster-In-Chief is a disaster, but don’t take it out on me.

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Guess what we haven’t heard on this topic? Any Obozo receptacles defending Obozo’s obvious lies on the cost of his government takeover of health care.

Obozo: Liar.

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[...] the optimistic view. The Atlanta Journal and Constitution’s Kyle Wingfield explains why the critics of Obamacare were right to point out the President’s flawed estimates for the [...]

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Just remember folks… go vote out the Dem’s not just BO, all the dems so we can get this junk repealed!

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The whole point of the government mandated health care system was to provide affordable health care. Can’t both parties agree that this plan does not create more affordable health care? Instead of the government going after the drug and health care companies outrageous costs for everyone (maybe because they are the biggest lobbying groups on the hill) their plan is to only provide health care for people who cannot afford it. Is that the real issue? If we do not get control our health care costs, more and more individuals will not be able to afford health care and the number Kyle refers to above will continue to grow at the taxpayers expense (they have to find the revenue somewhere). When is the pressure regarding the inflated health care costs and extreme testing in hospitals going to be discussed as the real issue instead of providing hand outs to the select few? Don’t we all deserve more affordable health care?

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