Thoughts on (maybe) (possibly) (perhaps) the last GOP debate
I haven’t written recaps of each GOP presidential debate this cycle, but I do have a few thoughts about last night’s, which may have been the last one with these four candidates.
Rick Santorum had a tough night. He appeared aware that he would be attacked, but his answers didn’t always impress. While he deemed his support of the No Child Left Behind law as a mistake he made under pressure from his party because “politics is a team sport” — a sentiment seemingly at odds with his earlier one-word description for himself, “courage” — he gave a lengthy defense of congressional earmarks. There is a case to be made for earmarks: It holds that they allow Congress to preserve more power of the purse rather than yielding more decisions to the executive branch. Even Ron Paul makes this defense. But defending earmarks is a bad spot for anyone in the tea party era, and it’s especially bad for Santroum because it also serves as a reminder that he was in Congress at a time when Republicans were falling off the small-government wagon. That said, I don’t think it was so bad as to have a large effect on his chances in the Arizona or Michigan primaries next week.
Mitt Romney fared better, and it helped his appearance to the TV audience that so many people in the live audience were his supporters. But Santorum landed a good blow on him by observing that even Michael Dukakis had balanced the Massachusetts budget because the state’s constitution requires it. And his attack on Santorum for endorsing Arlen Specter over conservative stalwart Pat Toomey in a 2004 U.S. senate race (as did most of the rest of the GOP establishment at the time) had the unfortunate effect of ensuring Specter’s name was being invoked when Barack Obama’s name could have been. That’s a loss for Republicans.
What about Newt Gingrich? He was back on his game, coming off as knowledgeable, focused and ready to defend conservatism. And he did so without attacking the moderator or, for the most part, the media. But at this point, do debate performances continue to move the needle for Gingrich? Like his divorces and some of his missteps as Speaker, good performances in debates are baked into the cake for him. At this point, that cake is valued at third place by the GOP primary electorate. He wasn’t good enough Wednesday night to surpass expectations, so I have a hard time seeing how the debate spurs him very far upward.
Ron Paul was Ron Paul, maybe a little more appealingly so than at other times. But while his foreign policy stance might help push the party away from military adventurism, it’s not going to be adopted wholesale by Republicans anytime soon. And that pretty much counts him put as a potential nominee.
How did y’all see things? Those of you who watched, that is…
– By Kyle Wingfield
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481 comments Add your comment
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
5:01 pm
“OK, and at what point is that now possible??”
As was stated days ago, medical science is pretty much limited to around 5 months today, md, but it is a moving target as science advances.
md
February 23rd, 2012
5:02 pm
“The only time you’re hypocrites is when you proclaim freedom and equality when you really have no clue what they mean.”
Says the guy that is arguing against equality for all……….
td
February 23rd, 2012
5:02 pm
Inside Out
February 23rd, 2012
4:37 pm
Please, please show the Constitutional or Federal statutory authority that has ever given ANYONE the right to marry?
There is no Constitutional right because the framers believed marriage was a states and religious issue and did not belong as a power of the Federal government.
Linda
February 23rd, 2012
5:02 pm
Tiberius@4:36, Now you have gone too far. No, a woman has the right to have sex, to demand condoms, to use birth control, to use the after-morning pill, to get pregnant, to have children, etc. However, once a woman becomes pregnant, it’s the woman or man (baby girl or boy) inside of her who has rights, that is, dominant rights over the mother, & father, for that matter.
I find it appalling that liberals, especially men, don’t understand the word LIFE, i.e., HUMAN LIFE.
Women have a moral responsibility to their children. Our bodies are not merely garages to protect old cars.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
5:03 pm
And frankly, I believe that there are few women who would carry a fetus around for five long months and not wish to give birth eventually. A few, maybe, but I doubt more than that. Without seeing the statistics, I figure the vast majority of abortions occur in the first trimester, and at that, early on in the trimester.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
5:07 pm
“No, a woman has the right to have sex, to demand condoms, to use birth control, to use the after-morning pill, to get pregnant, to have children, etc.”
Your point being . . . .?
“Our bodies are not merely garages to protect old cars.”
No, they’re just vessels to carry babies to term at YOUR orders, Linda. In other words, slaves.
What do you want them to do next, Massa?
md
February 23rd, 2012
5:07 pm
“As was stated days ago, medical science is pretty much limited to around 5 months today, md, but it is a moving target as science advances.”
So are you saying that baby becomes “equal” at 5 months based on the above science?
td
February 23rd, 2012
5:08 pm
jconservative
February 23rd, 2012
4:45 pm
The 9th circuit ruling will get overturned by the SCOTUS. Also, you have that little DOMA law at the federal level that overrules the “full faith and credit clause” in regards to Gay marriage that if I am not mistaken been upheld by the SCOTUS.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
5:08 pm
“Says the guy that is arguing against equality for all……….”
md, are you actually READING what is posted, or are you in some sort of drug-induced haze?
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
5:09 pm
“So are you saying that baby becomes “equal” at 5 months based on the above science?”
No.
md
February 23rd, 2012
5:10 pm
“md, are you actually READING what is posted, or are you in some sort of drug-induced haze?”
Nope….your last post just confirmed that you are not consistent…….
td
February 23rd, 2012
5:11 pm
@@
February 23rd, 2012
4:50 pm
Since there’s so many questions being asked, I have one.
At what point did the government involve itself in marriage and why?
Good question. I attempted to look it up and only found that after the reformation churches wanted the governments to record marriages.
jm
February 23rd, 2012
5:11 pm
Kyle W, heads up.
According to The Daily Caller, a politically conservative news site (via The Detroit News), the United Auto Workers union is helping to organize a group called The 99% Spring, which describes itself as an offshoot of the Occupy Wall Street movement.
The 99% Spring is a coalition of 43 organizations, but The Daily Caller says the UAW is the “powerhouse” behind the effort that seeks to train 100,000 Americans “for non-violent direct action.” While UAW president Bob King has voiced support for the movement, an unknown source told The Detroit News that the UAW is merely a part of the coalition and is not its “mastermind.”
Josh Bolotsky, a so-called online organizer listed as a contact for The 99% Spring, told The Daily Caller that “an independent tech issue led to some docs, both public and private, appearing briefly on [the UAW's public-facing web site],” adding that activists at the Movement Strategy Center and the New Organizing Institute were “[t]he chief co-coordinators of the overall project.”
Full copies of the documentation obtained by The Daily Caller from the UAW website can be seen after the break… so we suggest you draw your own conclusions.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
5:11 pm
“There is no Constitutional right because the framers believed marriage was a states and religious issue and did not belong as a power of the Federal government.”
So by the above comment, you agree that the DOMA is un-Constitutional, right?
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
5:12 pm
“Nope….your last post just confirmed that you are not consistent…”
Instead of merely saying so, how about you prove any inconsistency on my part, md?
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
5:16 pm
You know, these “Spring” movements have a nasty was of being either wildly successful in endearing themselves to people, or a big turnoff. The UAW, if this report is true, could be in for a rude awakening if they go too far, as the Occupy people just did.
The Tea Party is the most recent successful effort to positively affect the ballot box.
md
February 23rd, 2012
5:18 pm
“Instead of merely saying so, how about you prove any inconsistency on my part, md?”
Well, after 4 pages of comments in which you argued that equal is equal is equal…..you then turn around and say that the individual inside the womb is suddenly not equal……even if we use the current viability guesstament as the standard.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
5:21 pm
md, as soon as that person is outside of the womb and born, they are equal.
But as long as they are attached to the woman, the woman has primacy.
Just saying..
February 23rd, 2012
5:28 pm
If money’s the issue, pretty sure there are plenty of Democrats who’d pay to keep ‘em going…
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
5:29 pm
Bottom line, that may be “life” in the womb, but it isn’t a person until it can survive outside of the womb.
td
February 23rd, 2012
5:29 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
5:21 pm
md, as soon as that person is outside of the womb and born, they are equal.
But as long as they are attached to the woman, the woman has primacy.
So you are saying that since the woman has primacy then her equality supersedes the rights of another human being?
You my friend just blew your whole argument. Either you are all end with your debate with no exceptions or exceptions can happen based on someones moral judgements.
td
February 23rd, 2012
5:30 pm
Should read in instead of “end”
Just saying..
February 23rd, 2012
5:31 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate! @ 5:21 pm:
“md, as soon as that person is outside of the womb and born, they are equal.
But as long as they are attached to the woman, the woman has primacy.”
Tib, this agreeing with you has me worried…
Linda
February 23rd, 2012
5:32 pm
Tiberius@5:07, Perfect example of a liberal bashing a Christian. They are not my orders. They come from God.
How insulting! Are you calling women stupid? Do you think women don’t know they can get pregnant? Women who have recreational sex, who do not use birth control pills, don’t demand condoms, don’t take the morning-after pill & end up pregnant are vessels & slaves to the children they conceive?
What do I want them to do? Take personal responsibility. Either love their children or make sure they end up with someone who will.
td
February 23rd, 2012
5:35 pm
Linda
February 23rd, 2012
5:32 pm
Very well said Linda.
carlosgvv
February 23rd, 2012
5:35 pm
Tiberius – “repealing EPA regulations”
Oh, you mean those pesky regulations that limit the number of cancer causing and lung disease ailments? Spoken like a true Tea Party Republican.
Linda
February 23rd, 2012
5:36 pm
Tiberius is getting human beings & marsupials mixed up.
md
February 23rd, 2012
5:36 pm
“But as long as they are attached to the woman, the woman has primacy.”
Why?
“Bottom line, that may be “life” in the womb, but it isn’t a person until it can survive outside of the womb.”
Which we just agreed was around 22 weeks………then you say no.
jconservative
February 23rd, 2012
5:37 pm
“The 9th circuit ruling will get overturned by the SCOTUS. Also, you have that little DOMA law at the federal level that overrules the “full faith and credit clause” in regards to Gay marriage that if I am not mistaken been upheld by the SCOTUS.”
td,
Maybe SCOTUS will overrue, maybe they will uphold. Olsen has never lost a SCOTUS case.
No law of Congress overrules the US Constitution, DOMA included.
The Constitution says what the SCOTUS says it says. Fundamental constitutional law.
@@
February 23rd, 2012
5:38 pm
Thanks you, td.
Interestingly enough, over in the Netherlands (where same sex marriage is legal) civil marriages/UNIONS are mandated by the government. If a couple wants to take it one step further…after the government mandated civil marriage/UNION, they can have a church sanctioned ceremony.
That works for me.
From this day forth, I decree that civil unions must precede church sanctioned marriage. Then everybody’s happy up to and until the time gays demand the church accept their marriage.
Acceptance is so overrated.
Considering the small percentage of gays who actually marry when afforded the legal right, this whole debate is stupid to me.
carlosgvv
February 23rd, 2012
5:39 pm
Linda – “they come from God”
This is really exciting!!!!! I didn’t know God actually existed. Please furnish the irrefutable proof you must have to make that statment so we can share it with the world.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
February 23rd, 2012
5:40 pm
RomneyCare, just sayin…
md
February 23rd, 2012
5:42 pm
“Please furnish the irrefutable proof you must have to make that statment so we can share it with the world.”
One would be wise to understand that there isn’t any….in either direction. And then look up the definition of “possibility”.
Linda
February 23rd, 2012
5:44 pm
Tiberius, My comment @5:32 should have read: What do I want them to do? Take personal responsibility. Either love their children or make sure they end up with someone who will. In any case, make sure they attend Sunday School so they don’t become social liberals.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
5:46 pm
“So you are saying that since the woman has primacy then her equality supersedes the rights of another human being? ”
Not another human being until it is born, until then it’s a fetus.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
5:48 pm
“They are not my orders. They come from God.”
God gave us free will, Linda. Who are we to not use it?
You can’t have this both ways.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
5:50 pm
“Oh, you mean those pesky regulations that limit the number of cancer causing and lung disease ailments?”
Read, carlos. PLEASE READ . . . .
Liberal Intellectual
February 23rd, 2012
5:50 pm
Not a three syllable word amongst you.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
5:52 pm
“Which we just agreed was around 22 weeks………then you say no.”
No, then we can at least have a discussion about whether the life is viable. It is still not a person until it is downloaded, md.
I suggest you stop trying to read into my comments with your religious blinders.
@@
February 23rd, 2012
5:53 pm
Tiberius:
Not another human being until it is born, until then it’s a fetus.
Would it be safe to say you have no faith in the human potential. No woman has ever given birth to anything that isn’t human.
md
February 23rd, 2012
5:54 pm
“Not another human being until it is born, until then it’s a fetus.”
And that definition came from where? maybe the same place that says gays aren’t equal, or that blacks at one time weren’t equal, or perhaps even women that were not equal……..
Once again, not consistent……to borrow a phrase, it’s either equal or it’s not……
@@
February 23rd, 2012
5:55 pm
Liberal Intellectual:
I beg your pardon.
“potential” and “anything” are both three syllables.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 23rd, 2012
5:57 pm
Korans burned in Afghanistan: Obozo apologizes.
US troops killed by Afghan officer in protest: America’s chickens coming home to roost.
Obozo: America hater.
@@
February 23rd, 2012
5:57 pm
And Linda offered up six syllables.
“responsibility”
md
February 23rd, 2012
5:59 pm
“No, then we can at least have a discussion about whether the life is viable. It is still not a person until it is downloaded, md.
I suggest you stop trying to read into my comments with your religious blinders.”
Ah….the old assumption card………”religious blinders” again makes you look silly if I’m not religious……..
So, let’s have that discussion about viability……..we download one at 22 weeks, and you are agreeing it becomes a person…….we leave one in the oven for 32 weeks, and it isn’t a person….while the only difference appears to be living quarters……….
carlosgvv
February 23rd, 2012
6:00 pm
md – 5:42
You are right. So why is this country filled with people who act and live as though God is a proven fact?
carlosgvv
February 23rd, 2012
6:01 pm
Tiberius
You said “EPA regulations”. What do you think I missed?
@@
February 23rd, 2012
6:03 pm
I’m going to Merriam’s.
Definition of FETUS
: an unborn or unhatched vertebrate especially after attaining the basic structural plan of its kind; specifically : a developing human from usually two months after conception to birth
After just 8 weeks they’re considered HUMAN.
Linda
February 23rd, 2012
6:04 pm
carlosgvv@5:39, Why are you here? Is there a purpose in your life? Are you here just to work & have fun on weekends? Did you fall off a turnip truck? Are you here to experience love, music, art, abilities to read, comprehend & communicate? Who invented flowers, pleasure, gravity, the universe?
Next, where are you going when you die? Will your body be burned or placed in a hole in the ground? Is that it? That’s the end? That’s all you have to look forward to?
Christians, Jews, Catholics, Muslims, Mormons, etc. totally disagree with you.
There’s more to life than life on earth.
Christians are taught that only those that believe in Jesus can go to Heaven.
I hope you know what you are doing. I hope that all religions are wrong & that you are right, for your sake.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 23rd, 2012
6:06 pm
@@, most everyone knows they’re human and that it’s wrong to kill an unborn child. The pro-abortion crowd simply puts more value on their own comfort and happiness than the life of another human being.