Thoughts on (maybe) (possibly) (perhaps) the last GOP debate
I haven’t written recaps of each GOP presidential debate this cycle, but I do have a few thoughts about last night’s, which may have been the last one with these four candidates.
Rick Santorum had a tough night. He appeared aware that he would be attacked, but his answers didn’t always impress. While he deemed his support of the No Child Left Behind law as a mistake he made under pressure from his party because “politics is a team sport” — a sentiment seemingly at odds with his earlier one-word description for himself, “courage” — he gave a lengthy defense of congressional earmarks. There is a case to be made for earmarks: It holds that they allow Congress to preserve more power of the purse rather than yielding more decisions to the executive branch. Even Ron Paul makes this defense. But defending earmarks is a bad spot for anyone in the tea party era, and it’s especially bad for Santroum because it also serves as a reminder that he was in Congress at a time when Republicans were falling off the small-government wagon. That said, I don’t think it was so bad as to have a large effect on his chances in the Arizona or Michigan primaries next week.
Mitt Romney fared better, and it helped his appearance to the TV audience that so many people in the live audience were his supporters. But Santorum landed a good blow on him by observing that even Michael Dukakis had balanced the Massachusetts budget because the state’s constitution requires it. And his attack on Santorum for endorsing Arlen Specter over conservative stalwart Pat Toomey in a 2004 U.S. senate race (as did most of the rest of the GOP establishment at the time) had the unfortunate effect of ensuring Specter’s name was being invoked when Barack Obama’s name could have been. That’s a loss for Republicans.
What about Newt Gingrich? He was back on his game, coming off as knowledgeable, focused and ready to defend conservatism. And he did so without attacking the moderator or, for the most part, the media. But at this point, do debate performances continue to move the needle for Gingrich? Like his divorces and some of his missteps as Speaker, good performances in debates are baked into the cake for him. At this point, that cake is valued at third place by the GOP primary electorate. He wasn’t good enough Wednesday night to surpass expectations, so I have a hard time seeing how the debate spurs him very far upward.
Ron Paul was Ron Paul, maybe a little more appealingly so than at other times. But while his foreign policy stance might help push the party away from military adventurism, it’s not going to be adopted wholesale by Republicans anytime soon. And that pretty much counts him put as a potential nominee.
How did y’all see things? Those of you who watched, that is…
– By Kyle Wingfield
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481 comments Add your comment
td
February 23rd, 2012
3:51 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
3:38 pm
Again, using the word equality assumes that marriage is a Constitutional right and it is not.
All of our laws are based on someones moral believes. Gays can choose to live with whomever they want to just as anyone else but to legally marry is then is based on a state or nations set or moires and beliefs. Are you really trying to argue that all of our laws are set in a vacuum not considering the lawmakers or the citizens morals and values?
UGA 1999
February 23rd, 2012
3:52 pm
HDB…Again that is incorrect. For example, Georgia has a concealment law for your weapons, also in Georgia you do not need a permit to carry your weapon in your car or your home. However New York does NOT recognize Georgia gun laws. Try to drive through New York with your piston with no permit and have it concealed and see what happens.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
3:52 pm
“Still if a man is able to marry another man, why can a man not marry two or more spouses?”
Why not? Except that social conservatives are so tight-a$$ed on so many things.
td
February 23rd, 2012
3:54 pm
HDB
February 23rd, 2012
3:46 pm
“A state has the right to RESTRICT any absolute right…but they can NOT remove it!!”
And under what authority has it ever been established that gay marriage is a right?
@@
February 23rd, 2012
3:55 pm
I thought they all did well. Maybe sitting takes the edge off.
I’ll be hangin’ with Newt as long as he’s in the race. Did the same with Giuliani last time around.
There’s just something about a candidate who knows our history. ALL of our history.
No matter where I go on these here blogs, wedgies abound.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
3:56 pm
“Are you really trying to argue that all of our laws are set in a vacuum not considering the lawmakers or the citizens morals and values?”
Yes, td, I’m saying exactly that. And so did the Founding Fathers.
Do you think they specifically excluded any references to religious values in our founding documents just for the fun of it?
Acer706
February 23rd, 2012
3:56 pm
Inside Out: “If those on the right want to always lean on the Constitution, then why are you fighting so hard to defend a position that is not a part of the our country’s founding documents???”
Rights are individual! If your “Right” involves other individuals to be exercised the right; therefore, is not equal for all. Think about it.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
3:58 pm
“And under what authority has it ever been established that gay marriage is a right?”
And under what authority has it ever been established that MARRIAGE is a right?
What part of equality do you NOT get?
Acer706
February 23rd, 2012
3:59 pm
Say that no one wants to marry you, should someone be forced to marry you because it is your Right?!
md
February 23rd, 2012
3:59 pm
“You did not once in the 2008 campaign, not once did anyone in the elite media ask why Barack Obama voted in favor of legalizing infanticide…”
Didn’t hear John rebut it either…..did we.
And we didn’t hear about the negative effects of the credit card bill…….or the circumspection of the bankruptcy laws (by a lawyer even)……or how much the ACA subsidies are really going to cost us down the road……or pointing out that these wonderful payroll tax cuts are shorting the SS and medicare fund…..and how the ACA already cut 500 billion from the same fund…..and a host of others……
I just hope whoever the gop nominates is smart enough to bring it all out in the open……..
@@
February 23rd, 2012
4:00 pm
Tiberius:
Have you ever looked at the statistics around gays who DO marry as opposed to those who demand gay marriage? It’s as if they’re pushing for something they’re likely to reject. They’re actually more in love with the idea of marriage than the institution itself. None of my gay friends are looking to get married.
This research report offers estimates of
gay and lesbian marriage rates based on the
best available data. The highest estimate to
date of the proportion of gays and lesbians
who have married in any jurisdiction where
it is available is 16.7% (Massachusetts).
More typically, our survey of marriage
statistics from various countries that legally
recognize same-sex unions suggests that
today between 1% and 5% of gays and
lesbians have entered into a same-sex
marriage. In the Netherlands, which has had
same-sex marriage as a legal option for the
longest period, between 2% and 6% of gays
and lesbians have entered marriages in the
first five years.
Trend data is extremely limited, but the
available data suggest that the number of
gay marriages tends to decrease after an
initial burst (reflecting pent up demand).
Whether same-sex marriage will emerge as
common or normative among gays and
lesbians, or fade as time and novelty passes,
cannot yet be determined.
http://www.marriagedebate.com/pdf/imapp.demandforssm.pdf
Hillbilly D
February 23rd, 2012
4:03 pm
Try to drive through New York with your piston with no permit and have it concealed and see what happens.
The thing to do is don’t get caught.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
4:04 pm
“Say that no one wants to marry you, should someone be forced to marry you because it is your Right?!”
CONSENTING ADULTS, Acer.
Who's there?
February 23rd, 2012
4:04 pm
UGA 1999
February 23rd, 2012
3:19 pm
And what he has done is put 8.3% of the workforce out of a job.
Well, there’s a new twist. So apparently, when Obama took office unemployment was at 0.0% and he has managed to bring it up to 8.3% all by himself. That is terrible work by our President for sure.
td
February 23rd, 2012
4:07 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
3:56 pm
Have you actually ever read the Federalist or Anti Federalist papers? They are full of moral judgements from each side to argue for the ratification or not ratification of the Constitution. The Declaration of Independence sets out the nations moral grounds to separate from England. Have you ever watched a C-Span debate over any bill? Most all the speakers come up and lay out the moral grounds to pass legislation.
Your statement is of someone that either refuses to face reality or is very uneducated. I have read your statements in the past so I do not think you are unintelligent.
TRUTH
February 23rd, 2012
4:08 pm
ENOUGH, ALREADY. PICK SOMEFRIGGIN”BODY!!!
Each of the candidates have their own base. And all of these “bases” represent the GOP. The trick is, getting the “bases” to work together…..
Ain’t gonna happen….EVER….
Come over the dark side, we got room in our tent for you poor rejected “moderate” Republicans…
KYLE: I know we don’t see eye to eye on a lot of things, but you must agree, the GOP is in complete free fall. Your thoughts?
@@
February 23rd, 2012
4:08 pm
Try to drive through New York with your piston with no permit and have it concealed and see what happens.
I have to have a permit to carry a piston? Wouldn’t it need to be in my engine before I could drive.
(ISH)
td
February 23rd, 2012
4:08 pm
Who’s there?
February 23rd, 2012
4:04 pm
There are 2 million less people working today then the day Obama took office.
sheepdawg
February 23rd, 2012
4:10 pm
Most entertaining to watch the rich angry racist white homophobics try to appease a splintered and lost GOP following. None are worthy of leading any diversified group, all would make excellent preachers, the other occupation where scientific facts and truth don’t matter at all.
Jefferson
February 23rd, 2012
4:11 pm
In reality Newt is hurting the GOP, the senior leaders know it and he’s been told, but Nooooo he will continue on. Its like watching a train wreck.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
4:12 pm
“Have you actually ever read the Federalist or Anti Federalist papers?”
Yes, I have.
“They are full of moral judgements from each side to argue for the ratification or not ratification of the Constitution.”
Yet none of the moral judgments are actually IN the Constitution, are they?
“The Declaration of Independence sets out the nations moral grounds to separate from England.”
I do believe that taxation without representation, freedom, and equality are universal issue without any particular religion associated with them, don’t you?
td
February 23rd, 2012
4:13 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
3:58 pm
“And under what authority has it ever been established that gay marriage is a right?”
And under what authority has it ever been established that MARRIAGE is a right?
What part of equality do you NOT get?
I will try one more time. Please, please show the Constitutional or Federal statutory authority that has ever gave Gays the right to marry? If you can not do it then please explain in detail how you came to the conclusion that gay marriage was a matter of equally?
md
February 23rd, 2012
4:16 pm
“In reality Newt is hurting the GOP, the senior leaders know it and he’s been told, but Nooooo he will continue on.”
I don’t much care for newt, but it doesn’t hurt anything to stay in until at least super Tuesday…..then they can see where they all stand.
Jefferson
February 23rd, 2012
4:18 pm
He’s slinging a lot of mud, maybe Mitt can handle it. Mitt still going to turn left when he gets the nod, he has spent too much to backup now.
Who's there?
February 23rd, 2012
4:19 pm
That’s not what he said, td. He said Obama put 8.3% of the people out of work. Since unemployment is at 8.3%, the implication is it was 0.0% when he took office and he brought it up to 8.3% all by himself. It’s a pretty clear statement. And it’s completely false.
Acer706
February 23rd, 2012
4:22 pm
Tiberius…
Your rights were created to protect you against Government. Individual rights spread across all people and are not weakened by being affiliated with a group or sect.
@@
February 23rd, 2012
4:22 pm
Santorum’s comment…..“politics is a team sport” should’ve appealed to Independents. Aren’t they the ones who wanna get past the gridlock?
On earmarks? Why elect a representative if not to make sure your district doesn’t get short-changed by the federal government. I think that’s a connection people miss. It’s gotta be essential though. No tunnels for turtles that need to cross the road. If enviromentalists are concerned about the turtles, they can build the tunnels themselves.
No art in the park nonsense either.
Hillbilly D
February 23rd, 2012
4:22 pm
he has spent too much to backup now
It’s still odd to me that people will spend hundreds of millions of dollars to get a job that pays $400K a year. And we wonder why they have trouble with a budget.
Linda
February 23rd, 2012
4:23 pm
Liberals & some conservatives have been bashing Bush for over a decade, liberals because he was too conservative & conservatives because he was not conservative enough.
Then we elected Obama who was the most liberal senator in ‘07, according to the National Journal, even more liberal than Marcus, the self-proclaimed socialist.
Why is the most socially conservative GOP candidate ahead of the pack? Is it because voters have witnessed first hand the destructiveness of fiscal & social liberals & feel that it’s time America returned to its moral roots?
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
4:23 pm
“Please, please show the Constitutional or Federal statutory authority that has ever gave Gays the right to marry?”
Not in the Constitution, but are not all men created equal? Are not the principles of equal treatment under the law valid for everybody? Isn’t freedom an absolute, as long as you don’t take someone’s life, liberty or property in your dealings? How is anyone’s life, liberty or property disadvantaged when a man marries a man or a woman marries a woman, or someone marries more than one spouse?
What part of EQUALITY do you NOT get?
td
February 23rd, 2012
4:24 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
4:12 pm
I will try one last time to explain. Our Constitution is the rules the game. Rules and our laws are not written to include moral judgements because they are legalistic and the rules of the game. All legalistic documents have moral values attached to the reasons to write the law or Constitution. For example: We say that it is against the law to commit murder. This is a value judgement that we made that murder is wrong and we must not allow people to do it without consequences. The same applies to gay marriage. No law has been written to allow it because the countries values say that marriage wshould only happen between a man and a woman.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
4:25 pm
“Your rights were created to protect you against Government.”
Sorry, but my rights come from my Creator. How about yours?
Government exists to PROTECT those rights from those who would take your life, liberty or property.
jconservative
February 23rd, 2012
4:26 pm
“Thoughts on (maybe) (possibly) (perhaps) the last GOP debate”
Kyle you left out “hopefully”.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
4:28 pm
“We say that it is against the law to commit murder. This is a value judgement that we made that murder is wrong and we must not allow people to do it without consequences.”
Nice try, but we say murder is wrong BOTH because religion says it is wrong, and because YOU don’t have a right to another person’s life due to the principles of FREEDOM. Freedom has no moral basis. It is just there.
td
February 23rd, 2012
4:30 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
4:23 pm
“Not in the Constitution, but are not all men created equal? Are not the principles of equal treatment under the law valid for everybody?”
Is it not true that we give women the right to terminate a pregnancy when we do not consider the rights of the father or the unborn child? Is this equal protection? Would not your definitions above also apply to this situation?
md
February 23rd, 2012
4:36 pm
“It’s still odd to me that people will spend hundreds of millions of dollars to get a job that pays $400K a year.”
For starters, it’s usually not their money HD…..then the perks are pretty good. One of the few jobs where one only has to work 4 years and get lifetime benefits….not to mention access as a President to the very lucrative speaking circuit…….
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
4:36 pm
“Is it not true that we give women the right to terminate a pregnancy when we do not consider the rights of the father or the unborn child?”
Yes, it is true, but it doesn’t apply. The rights of the woman are primary in this regard. To do otherwise is to give another person dominion over the woman’s body.
Inside Out
February 23rd, 2012
4:37 pm
Please, please show the Constitutional or Federal statutory authority that has ever given ANYONE the right to marry?
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
4:44 pm
The problem is that these concepts of freedom and equality are extremely simple, if you don’t try to usurp them with religious dogma.
There is either equal, or not equal. There is nothing else. Not equal means that someone is greater than or lesser than another person. And that is simply not right in a society founded on individual freedom and equality.
@@
February 23rd, 2012
4:44 pm
Is this equal protection?
There’s nothing equal about it. Family court is heavily weighted in favor of mothers. Mothers can lay out visitation that best suits their schedule. Don’t be late with the child support payment though or you’ll find yourself in court again.
Not speaking from experience, I read alot.
When researching the statistics on gays who want to marry, I googled “gay poll”. That was a HUGE mistake. I saw things I cared not to see.
schnirt
jconservative
February 23rd, 2012
4:45 pm
“And under what authority has it ever been established that gay marriage is a right?”
The Federal Appeals Court for the 9th District has so ruled.
The case (California Prop
is on the way to the SCOTUS being husbanded by Ted Olsen and David Boies.
Also seven states have recognized same sex marriage. So it is a right in those states.
And per Article IV, Section 1 of the US Constitution, “Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State.”, a same sex marriage from the state of Washington must be recognized in Georgia.
Like me, you may not like it, but this is where the nation is headed. The world of the WASP will soon to be gone.
And so it goes……………………..
md
February 23rd, 2012
4:46 pm
“To do otherwise is to give another person dominion over the woman’s body.”
And scientifically, by doing so gives the woman dominion over another body…….can’t say I can really see a difference.
As viability changes, I can see that definition eventually changing too…….
Linda
February 23rd, 2012
4:46 pm
There are many similarities among the major religions in the US today when it comes to morals.
Liberals are selective of those they bash. Islam seems to be excluded, maybe because liberals want to avoid the same fate of our troops, i.e., to be beheaded, burned & drug around the streets.
Liberals don’t understand religion unless it has to do with climate or animals.
Liberals bash Christians for attending church, worshiping God & trying to live our lives according to God’s teachings.
At the same time, liberals bash Christians & call us hypocrites when we merely adhere to our faith & beliefs.
@@
February 23rd, 2012
4:50 pm
Since there’s so many questions being asked, I have one.
At what point did the government involve itself in marriage and why?
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
4:54 pm
“And scientifically, by doing so gives the woman dominion over another body…….can’t say I can really see a difference. ”
Of course you could, if you removed your blinders.
Until that “body” can live outside of the womb, the mother takes precedence.
carlosgvv
February 23rd, 2012
4:57 pm
UGA 1999 – Tiberius
High gas prices did not happen overnight. If Obama’s policies are really the blame, you must believe he saw this happening, saw his chances of being re-elected going out the window, and didn’t have sense enough to change course. I know you think he’s not too smart, but I seriously doubt he’s that dumb. And I hope the two of you are not dumb enough to believe that Romney or Gingrich or Santorum could actually bring down these prices.
md
February 23rd, 2012
4:57 pm
“Until that “body” can live outside of the womb, the mother takes precedence.”
OK, and at what point is that now possible?? Keep in mind, that we take babies out early all the time…..what is your arbitrary cut off point for that not so equal as others individual?
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
4:57 pm
“Liberals bash Christians for attending church, worshiping God & trying to live our lives according to God’s teachings.”
And you are free to do so, as long as you don’t expect me to conform to your idea of faith, so long as I don’t take your life, liberty or property through the use of force or fraud. And I expect the same of you.
“At the same time, liberals bash Christians & call us hypocrites when we merely adhere to our faith & beliefs.”
The only time you’re hypocrites is when you proclaim freedom and equality when you really have no clue what they mean.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 23rd, 2012
4:59 pm
carlos, you really need to READ what is written about this subject, or at least comprehend it better.
And yes, any President can lower gas prices on day one of his / her administration by simply repealing EPA regulations that drive up the price of gas.
md
February 23rd, 2012
5:00 pm
“Of course you could, if you removed your blinders.”
And statements like that reflect more on the individual making the statement, not the unknown individual it is addressed to……