Gas prices add to case for delaying T-SPLOST vote
Take the news today about gasoline prices locally (from AJC.com) …
The average price for a gallon of unleaded regular stood at $3.55 Monday, up 3 cents from a week ago and 45 cents from this time a year ago, according to AAA.
The price has risen 15 cents a gallon in the past month.
Georgia’s average price is just slightly below the national average of $3.56, which is the highest price ever for this time of year, the Associated Press reported. Since January, a gallon of gas has risen 25 cents per gallon.
… add this prediction nationally from a Friday story in the San Jose Mercury News (note the part I’ve bolded) …
Some oil analysts predict $4.50 a gallon or more by Memorial Day on the West Coast and major cities across the United States such as Chicago, New York and Atlanta.
… and tell me how this news improves the T-SPLOST’s chances of being approved by voters in a referendum scheduled for July.
On one hand, I suppose a project list with half the spending dedicated to mass transit could be seen in better light if gasoline prices are higher. But that premise depends on voters’ believing those transit projects will benefit them personally, and I still don’t think many voters will review the list and believe that’s true for them.
It’s more likely, I think, that a potential increase of about 28 percent in gas prices (adding $1/gallon to the present $3.55) would put consumers in no mood to add a 1 percent tax to everything they buy — up to a 9 percent sales tax in Atlanta if the 1 percent tax for water/sewer infrastructure is renewed next month.
I say again: It would be in everyone’s best interests to put off this tax for a couple of years. It’s in the pro-tax folks’ best interests because, as of now, all the external factors (higher gas, still-sluggish economy, etc.) seem to be going against them. It’s in the skeptics’ best interests — assuming they could be persuaded to support a better project list — because it would allow time to rework the list. Only the absolutely anti-tax group should favor a July T-SPLOST vote at this point.
I put out that idea last fall without a great deal of optimism that it would take root. But earlier this month, a trio of legislators proposed legislation pretty much along the lines of what I advocated. Will their colleagues listen?
– By Kyle Wingfield
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147 comments Add your comment
Dana Blankenhorn
February 20th, 2012
11:05 am
The state’s politics haven’t kept up with the changing economic reality of the last decade, namely the rise in importance of the creative class, universities as the center of the economy, and resulting demands for tolerant social policy as well as increased high-quality dense living. Emory, GaTech and GaState are where the money is.
But look at where the state’s leaders live. They’re all from the exurbs. And, yes, the Georgia mountains are now very much part of Atlanta. They’re based on real estate as meaning land, not buildings, and roads, not transit. It’s where their money comes from, and their political contributions.
Our growth will lag behind the nation’s until we stop looking in our rear-view mirror for the next economic boom.
Brosephus
February 20th, 2012
11:08 am
A list with half the spending on mass transit would be DOA in Georgia, even if gas was $8 a gallon. Southern people love their freedom. Freedom comes with choosing your own path, not riding the rails/bus. Whether they hold the referrendum this year or later, I don’t see my vote changing from no.
killerj
February 20th, 2012
11:09 am
As a “tax payee to much for nothing”,my middle finger Kyle,anyone,s a fool to raise taxes on themselves,its only more waste for the kitty on capitol hill who is outta control with big government.
Hillbilly D
February 20th, 2012
11:12 am
Southern people love their freedom. Freedom comes with choosing your own path, not riding the rails/bus. Whether they hold the referrendum this year or later, I don’t see my vote changing from no.
Good point, Bro. In my area, the T-SPLOST would only bring more roads and more roads only bring more people. We’ve got too many already.
Junior Samples
February 20th, 2012
11:14 am
Sure, let’s wait.
Wait in traffic.
Do what??????
February 20th, 2012
11:24 am
“A list with half the spending on mass transit would be DOA in Georgia, even if gas was $8 a gallon.”
I’ve stated this many times before. The only way a transit system would ever work is if you burned Atlanta to the ground and rebuilt it like Chicago or NYC. It ONLY works on a grid system.
Bart Abel
February 20th, 2012
11:28 am
I’m against the T-SPLOST because it’s regressive. As a percentage of income, it raises taxes mostly on the poor and middle class while allowing the rich to coast.
Instead, Georgia should eliminate the special interest tax breaks that have been given over the course of the past several years, and raise state income taxes on the wealthy. It’s a good idea nationally, and it’s a good idea at the state level too.
Brosephus
February 20th, 2012
11:28 am
HD
Been missing shootin’ the breeze with you. Your area sounds like mine. T-SPLOST would be strictly road here, and I already hate traffic as it is. I don’t want more of it.
Road Scholar
February 20th, 2012
11:39 am
Bro: ” Southern people love their freedom. ”
I agree but add that southerners typically do not plan for the future either! We are going to add 3 M people in the next 20 years in Atlanta alone. There are other regions like us who need their TSPLOST to pass (Savannah, south side of Atl, NE ga) We will need mass transit for the ones who can use it. Those who want to drive at all costs will still be able to because those who use transit will make room for those others to sit in more traffic! And pay for even more expensive gasoline…
Kyle, we have been waiting since the 1980’s when the gas tax was last adjusted. If no TSPLOST, then adjust the gas tax to inflation. We have had a free ride for so long it’s time to pay up!
Under your reasoning, when is it time? Potholes so large you could lose a volkswagon in one? Rush hour traffic for how many hours each day? Air quality issues? (Oh those damn regulations!) Parking rates going up! While not perfect, TSPLOST has a list of specific projects to be completed once the tax sunsets in 10 years. If they aren’t done if the tax is approved, there will never be a renewal vote. And I am one who supports and does teleworking…
Do what??????
February 20th, 2012
11:39 am
Brosephus
How’s the freak show on Bookman’s blog with all the unemployed dead beats who reside there on a 24/7 basis? AmVet still his same old senile and delusional self? Granny too?
Road Scholar
February 20th, 2012
11:43 am
Do what? Takes one to caall one! I hope you’re feeling better? The other day you suffered from verbal diarehha, and it wasn’t pretty!
Try to stay on topic and ADD to the conversation.
Charles Purvis
February 20th, 2012
11:43 am
$2.50/gal gas? American energy independance, which will bolster our national security, not to mention our pockets, our job growth and revenues and therefore economic growth? Finally a declining national debt? It is possible with the right leadership!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOImnCrKPZ8
ragnar danneskjold
February 20th, 2012
11:46 am
“Never” works well for me, does that work well for you?
Do what??????
February 20th, 2012
11:46 am
“Takes one to caall one! I hope you’re feeling better? The other day you suffered from verbal diarehha, and it wasn’t pretty!
You should really use spell check before you try to put someone down, simpleton. Besides, I get a kick out of you and other left wingers saying I’m this and that.
“Try to stay on topic and ADD to the conversation.”
Didn’t you just got off topic, simpleton?
Road Scholar
February 20th, 2012
11:51 am
Do What?: Check your second sentence @11:39; try using the verb “is” before or after “AMVET ” to make a correct sentence! Remember , each sentence has a verb! Two can play these stupid games you play …
Kyle Wingfield
February 20th, 2012
11:52 am
Road and Do What: That’s enough.
Road Scholar
February 20th, 2012
11:55 am
Understood. You didn’t ask my honest question about “when”. We have ignored our needs for so long. GDOT is still paying back on projects that went to construction many years ago, esp with the debt service on the bonds. (remember the alledged treasury issue there?)
Old timer
February 20th, 2012
11:58 am
Will not vote for the transportation tax….figure another way.
Brosephus
February 20th, 2012
12:12 pm
Road
When you don’t want major growth, expansion, or the headaches that come with it, you do not plan for the future. There’s probably a good segment of the South that would be happy if nothing else changed from here until the end of time. I’m not saying that’s a good or bad thing, but that’s why I think the South is more conservative than liberal in it’s leanings.
Do what??????
February 20th, 2012
12:15 pm
“but that’s why I think the South is more conservative than liberal in it’s leanings.”
The south leans conservative because people down south know what happens when a state goes total blue.
Bankruptcy. See: Illinois and California.
The south also leans conservative because of wanting lower taxes etc.
Road Hard (and put up wet)
February 20th, 2012
12:28 pm
The public should be just about fed-up with how market value (in everything from real estate to commodities) has been hijacked by an elite owner/investor class. We pay more for everything and get less value for our outlay. Wall Street speculates on everything from how much value will increase or deteriorate. And with either outsome, someone other than the American public is reaping enormous rewards, then taking their money and running or offering it back to the public at a substantial (borrowing) cost. The system is broken and our roads and bridges and livelihoods are the only casualty.
MrLiberty
February 20th, 2012
12:30 pm
T-Splost is a complete waste of money. This will just put more money in the hands of those who have clearly shown their inability to be trusted with money time and time again.
What sort of “conservative” approach is it to suggest delaying a vote that should never even be allowed to happen. There is no appropriate time to enable the majority to further victimize the minority through yet another wasteful tax.
Road Scholar
February 20th, 2012
12:30 pm
Bro: But that is what the politicians and Chambers of Commerce want…growth. W/o it the government revenues don’t grow to match inflation let alone “new ” programs. Property taxes and sales tax grow with inflation, but that doesn’t cover the entire increase that is needed. I realize it is a never ending battle though.
Iconoclast
February 20th, 2012
12:33 pm
Do What, the south (and Georgia in particular) has also embraced a “growth at any cost” attitude since the Great Depression (some would say since 19th century reconstruction). We are a competitive region, not because we’re blessed with abundant natural and agricultural resources, but because we’re willing to exploit them without regard for what’s left for successive generations.
Road Scholar
February 20th, 2012
12:34 pm
Mr Liberty: Does that mean you are against any transportation tax or user fee? Education taxes? Any election? (”There is no appropriate time to enable the majority to further victimize the minority through yet another wasteful tax.”…the politicians are the ones who tax!)
Do what??????
February 20th, 2012
12:34 pm
“we’re willing to exploit them”
Or, it could be that companies are sick of unions and tired of high taxes. There’s a reason why car companies are opening up massive plants in the southeast.
Ayn Rant
February 20th, 2012
12:36 pm
Why put off a measure to fund transportation and other infrastructure improvements because of high fuel prices? Why do we even need a referendum for sensible proposals? Why doesn’t the Legislature approve the needed sales tax now to provide jobs for engineers and construction people, to increase consumer demand to attract capital investment, and to reduce fuel consumption.
Have you noticed the waste of time and fuel due to inadequate infrastructure and bad management? Haven’t you seen lots of people sitting in their cars, engines running, waiting for traffic lights to change and freeway traffic jams to ease ?
Do you really think fuel prices are going to plummet next year? Do you think “drill, baby, drill” and sludge pipelines from Canada will significantly affect oil prices? Do you not know that petroleum prices are set in London according to world-wide consumer demand and Arab production quotas.
Do you realize that US oil refineries are operating below capacity because of lack of demand? Do you know that reduced consumption results in lower fuel prices, except when Big Oil manipulates the US supply by shutting down refineries?
Why are the people of Georgia so passive in the face of the economic decline, high unemployment, and low capital investment? It’s positively un-American!
K.Conway
February 20th, 2012
12:41 pm
Vote Obama out of office and start drilling here at home forr oil and the gas prices would fall below $2 a gallon!
Road Scholar
February 20th, 2012
12:48 pm
Conway: Yeah, sure. ANY new oil will be sold on the world market at prevailing prices…ya know…supply and demand. Capitalism, ain’t it great! (before any one goes off, I support capitalism but also know how it functions.)
Also, some refineries are offline to change over to “summer “gas and to do general maintenance.
JF McNamara
February 20th, 2012
12:49 pm
You only want to delay the vote because you don’t want it. If voters think its a big issue, then the vote itself will fail. Delaying it just gives you what you want with no risk. That’s not Democratic at all.
“Southern people love their freedom. Freedom comes with choosing your own path, not riding the rails/bus. Whether they hold the referrendum this year or later, I don’t see my vote changing from no.”
Well, you are free to vote no, and you are free to abide by the law if it passes. There are many things that I don’t like, but the majority of citizens do and I abide by those rules. If you are unable to do that, you are free to move…
Don't Tread
February 20th, 2012
12:52 pm
I’m still on the NO side for three reasons: 1. We have too many people in Atlanta already…let’s not encourage more to come here. I don’t want Atlanta to be another New York City or LA. 2. The government is the biggest waster of money on the planet. I don’t feel the need to “volunteer” to give them more. 3. The water situation is still in limbo. It would be a complete waste to spend all this money and then have the courts decide that we have to go back to 1970s water usage levels. Atlanta would become a ghost town once the water is cut off…there’s just not enough to go around.
JF McNamara
February 20th, 2012
12:55 pm
K. Conway,
You should probably educate yourself before posting. Domestic Oil production is up a great deal compared to the end of the Bush Years.
http://www.consumerenergyreport.com/2012/01/06/the-oilman-in-the-white-house/
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 20th, 2012
12:57 pm
Gas prices add to case for kicking Obozo and his failed policies to the curb
10:53 am February 20, 2012, by Kyle Wingfield
———–
Fixed.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 20th, 2012
1:01 pm
As libtards love to point out, oil production doesn’t come online at the flip of a switch. Any increase in oil production occurred because of actions taken years ago by our President Bush.
Just say "NO" to TSPLOST
February 20th, 2012
1:05 pm
Just say “NO” to TSPLOST, the money pot for political corruption! NO NEW TAXES, NO RATE INCREASES!
Just say "NO" to TSPLOST
February 20th, 2012
1:06 pm
Instead of building more roads, lets reduce the number of people in the Metro area: Fire half your workers now!
Kyle Wingfield
February 20th, 2012
1:07 pm
Road @ 11:55: “When” new infrastructure needs to be built is of secondary importance if the vote is going to be held “when” it has little chance of passing anyway.
Will
February 20th, 2012
1:10 pm
TSPLOST is likely to fail.
In Cobb County, Tim Lee has cooked his goose with supporting a rail project that does not allieviate traffic.
We are paying for the beltline even though it’s not a high value transportation project .
Maybe after it fails, the politicans will listen and bring trasit proposals that actually improve traffic
Kyle Wingfield
February 20th, 2012
1:11 pm
MrLiberty @ 12:30: As I said in the OP, there are three groups of people: Those who want the tax and the current project list; those who are open to the tax but skeptical of the current project list; and those who don’t want the tax regardless of the project list. I count myself in the second group: I could be persuaded to support the tax if I felt it would pay for worthwhile infrastructure, just as I can be persuaded to part with my money at a store if I feel the product/service is worthwhile.
Kyle Wingfield
February 20th, 2012
1:12 pm
JF @ 12:49: So now you’re a mind reader? I outlined my thinking in the OP, and have outlined it at greater length in a previous column that is linked above. If you won’t accept my reasoning at face value — and I don’t think I’ve earned a reputation for pulling my punches — then I don’t know why you would bother reading and replying to my blog posts.
Just say "NO" to TSPLOST
February 20th, 2012
1:16 pm
Never, ever donate money to any charity, it just pays the bloated salaries of the hired help. See today’s story titled “Salaries soar on funds for students” in today’s AJC Urinal.
Brosephus
February 20th, 2012
1:17 pm
Do What @ 12:15
The South has been conservative for about as long as this country has existed. That would void any referrence to the financial status of states in today’s economic times.
Road @ 12:30
I don’t think they want the growth anywhere near as much as the money that comes with the growth. If the money could be achieved without the growth, I think many would go that route first.
JF McNamara
I have no problem with going by whatever the outcome of the vote ends up. My personal opinion is that, if you’re gonna attempt to plan for future transportation by building more roads, you’re only planning for future congestion. A piecemeal approach to regional transit by widening roads only invites more cars to use them. I was of the opinion that removing cars from the road was the way to decrease congestion and improve driving times.
Road Scholar
February 20th, 2012
1:20 pm
What we are talking about is a penny sales tax per dollar. That’s .04 c per gallon and .80 c per tankfull. That is on average one tank a week…so it’s $41.60 a year on average. Rebuilding interchanges, widening major arterials, fixing hot spots of congestion, updating signal systems, etc in addition to mass transit (buses and trains) seems a good investment…whether there are more people or not.
And it’s about jobs…tax dollars go to hiring private contractors, employees, material suppliers, food stores , restaurants… and we need jobs now to spur the economy. How is all that private investment in transportation wortking for you? Is all that talk about improving the economy and jobs from the conserves just idle talk?
Kyle Wingfield
February 20th, 2012
1:26 pm
Road: Yeah, but it’s a penny on every dollar you spend on things besides gas, too. It’s not a penny increase in the fuel tax.
Halftrack
February 20th, 2012
1:38 pm
Waiting or postponement is a very good idea. The Region system is flawed anyway. Our Legislators need to reassess the whole thing again. Let’s take a little longer, as gasoline goes up, most all other commodities goes up as well. Materials for new highways or even resurfacing of old highways will dramatically begin to jump with the price of oil. Please contact your U.S. Congressmen now.
carlosgvv
February 20th, 2012
1:39 pm
Enter your comments here
carlosgvv
February 20th, 2012
1:41 pm
These high gas prices are all the fault of that African Socialist Atheist non-American Obama who wants to destory America. How do I know this? Gingrich, Romney and Santorum say so and you know these good Christians would never tell a lie.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 20th, 2012
1:42 pm
Yo, Brosephus! Great to have you over here, even if it’s temporary!
Now, as to the T-SPLOST, I’m against it on pure democratic principles. I don’t like citizen votes on policy at all. We are a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy. If our elected leaders don’t have the fortitude to vote increased revenues to fund what they consider needed projects, then they need to be voted out.
Either take a stand or don’t, but stop putting tax and policy issues in the direct hands of the dumb masses.
Jefferson
February 20th, 2012
1:48 pm
There’s the sign. Petty comments on why gas is high.
I vote No on splost because there is never accountability for the fleecing the gov’t gets at the hands of businesses. Overcharged and never get what you pay for.
Bart Abel
February 20th, 2012
2:10 pm
Kyle believes that he doesn’t pull punches. I suspect otherwise.
Conservatives repeatedly assert or imply that conservatives are anti-tax and liberals are pro-tax. Yet, like all conservatives, they frequently support (or do not oppose) sales taxes and other forms of taxation which are regressive (it was, after all, a Republican legislature and Republican governor that put this referendum on the ballot).
They’re aware of the cognitive dissonance between claiming to represent an anti-tax point of view, while supporting proposals, or candidates with proposals, which would raise taxes on the poor and middle class while reducing taxes on the wealthy. Look closely at Romney’s, Santorum’s, Gingrich’s, and Ryan’s tax plans for evidence. Look closely at who pays a larger share of their incomes in taxes under sales tax proposals, which conservatives frequently support increasing, versus those who pay larger shares under income tax proposals, which conservatives always support reducing.
Conservative leaders and pundits are NOT anti-tax. They’re anti-tax the rich and pro-tax you and me. When Kyle admits that truth, then I’ll give him credit for not pulling punches.
Atlien
February 20th, 2012
2:15 pm
Attitudes will change when we get $5, $6, $7, $8 gas. With the federal reserve cranking up the printing presses, it’s not too far away.
retiredds
February 20th, 2012
2:16 pm
Remember folks, the great US of A no longer controls the price of gas and won’t for a long time, if ever. Think Iran, the middle east, China, India, and other developing nations who also want to purchase gas to fill their cars and trucks. Those who took Econ 101 will remember how the supply/demand curve works. It doesn’t matter how much energy the US produces, the market (and therefore the price) is a function of too much global demand and not enough supply. Also the US is now exporting energy products. The problem in GA and some part of the political establishment who think (and espouse to their political bases) we can go back to the way it was, i.e. cheap gas and the US in control of the energy market. That’s is a pipe dream my friends. These politicos might as well be urging us to believe that the earth is flat.
Re the T-Splost: If the Atlanta area says no, that’s fine with me. Those of us who chose years ago to live inside the perimeter have several transportation choices other than the car (although that is also one). Living very near Emory U. there are several MARTA and Emory Shuttle options, walking or riding a bike included. Our neighborhood is one block from the grocery and many good restaurants. But for those of you who have chosen to live in areas where the auto is your only option you might want to consider some alternatives (some of which might be in the T-Splost proposals). But if you don’t look at the alternative offerings and just vote no because some politician tells you to then don’t complain after the fact if traffic gets worse and worse (and it will because there is no Plan B). If there is no balance in the transportation picture for ATL, you will be doomed to the continued failure of basing your commuting and other trips on the auto and can look forward to no improvement in the traffic woes of the region.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 20th, 2012
2:20 pm
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Bart Abel.
Tax the poor, protect the rich.
We get your class warfare talking points.
Kyle Wingfield
February 20th, 2012
2:23 pm
Shorter Bart: When Kyle admits to the worst aspersions I can cast on him, I’ll admit he’s right.
Sigh.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
February 20th, 2012
2:43 pm
The T-SPLOST isn’t necessarily a must at this point as all that needs to be done to come up with more money for road construction on a yearly basis is to take the one-percent of the state’s gas tax that currently goes into the general fund and divert it to road construction. Diverting that one-percent from the state’s general fund to road construction isn’t the be-all end-all to the state’s road financing woes, but it is a VERY BIG start to making some long-overdue road improvements.
Brosephus
February 20th, 2012
2:50 pm
Tiberius
I read here almost daily but just don’t comment. I’d cosign your point in that the elected officials should make the decision instead of abdicating their jobs using “democracy” as a cover.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
February 20th, 2012
2:59 pm
The T-SPLOST is also far from a must for improvement and expansion of mass transit at this point as all that the state needs to do to expand rail is to take the same public-private partnership approach that they were going to do in building HOT lanes on I-75/I-575 through Cobb County and instead apply it to something that can really seriously tremendously help traffic but that strangely seems to be overlooked and left out of the transportation conversation, especially in the I-75 NW and I-85 NE corridors, and that is COMMUTER RAIL.
All that the state needs to do get commuter rail up-and-running in the Atlanta Region is to get private companies to finance the bulk of the cost of the modifying the existing freight rail lines on which commuter trains are already proposed to run by our very own Georgia Department of Transportation and pay the rest of the cost of implementing commuter rail with bonds paid back over the long-term with train fares.
Public-private partnerships are much more compatible on rail transit (first commuter rail, then eventually light rail, heavy rail and even bus) than on toll lanes because rail transit, when compentently managed, is designed and intended to carry increased numbers of commuters during peak-periods than toll lanes where the tolls are adjusted up to force traffic out of the lanes.
This is something that is so simple that babies with down syndrome have already got it figured out, unlike our intellectually-challenged state legislators who will be thinking this through while we continue to sit in worsening traffic jams of Biblical proportions.
There are no excuses. These are all VERY SIMPLE steps that could have been implemented years ago WITHOUT raising taxes.
Bart Abel
February 20th, 2012
3:01 pm
Tiberius. I’m not sure why imposing regressive taxes in which the poor and middle class pay a larger share than the wealthy is not class warfare and defending against them is. But if you say so.
My comments, Kyle, are only aspersions if they’re not true. They are true.
People don’t realize or understand the regressive, death by a thousand cuts, nature of regressive taxes. Professional “anti-tax” conservative politicians and pundits rely on such ignorance and it explains how they have been able to continue to support and promote regressive taxes without losing their base. Tiberius illustrates this truth nicely.
Bart Abel
February 20th, 2012
3:06 pm
Kyle: I could be persuaded to support the tax if I felt it would pay for worthwhile infrastructure
Kyle,
Could you be persuaded to support a progressive income tax if you felt it would pay for worthwhile construction instead of a regressive sales tax?
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
February 20th, 2012
3:09 pm
Oh yeah, BTW, here are some links to preliminary plans for a commuter rail network in the Atlanta Region:
http://www.dot.state.ga.us/travelingingeorgia/rail/Documents/CommuterRailMap.pdf
http://www.dot.state.ga.us/maps/Documents/railroad/nga_passenger.pdf
eric gall
February 20th, 2012
3:13 pm
5.00 a gallon and ocommie nixed the canada pipeline which would havwe provided 700,000 gallons of oil a day to us? cant drill offshore? he should be impeached for not sticking to the oath he took to defend this country, that =includes economic emergencies or attac, foreign or domestic. these people in the white house now think they are so much smarter than us, yet have no common sense whatso ever. of course, commie pukes dont think like real americans.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 20th, 2012
3:13 pm
carlosgvv: These high gas prices are all the fault of that African Socialist Atheist non-American Obama who wants to destory America. How do I know this?
———
Because that’s what libtards told the Democrat sheeple to think, between 2000-2008 that is.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 20th, 2012
3:18 pm
“People don’t realize or understand the regressive, death by a thousand cuts, nature of regressive taxes.”
And yet “people” do understand that the term “regressive” is simply communist code-speak for soak the rich and continue to give the poor a pass.
“Could you be persuaded to support a progressive income tax if you felt it would pay for worthwhile construction”
We already have that. You just want to make it MORE progressive than it already is.
Bart Abel
February 20th, 2012
3:44 pm
yet “people” do understand that the term “regressive” is simply communist code-speak for soak the rich and continue to give the poor a pass.
I know that Tiberius is fully indoctrinated and beyond deprogramming, but the word “regressive” is actually an economic term with a specific definition. By definition, a regressive tax is one in which the less you make, the higher the percentage of your income you pay. And the more you make, the lower a percentage of your income you pay.
If being against taxing the poor at higher rates than taxing the middle class and being against taxing the middle class at higher rates than taxing the rich makes me a communist, then I’m a communist. But, for the record, it doesn’t, and I’m not.
Tiberius doesn’t know what communism is, otherwise he wouldn’t play so fast and loose with the word.
Hillbilly D
February 20th, 2012
3:48 pm
Brocephus
Good to see you; I’ve been out and about. Your initial point, that more roads bring more people and more traffic, is one that can easily be seen by what’s happened in Metro Atlanta in the last 40-50 years. I remember when I-85 stopped at Norcross,I remember when I-20 was being built inside what is now 285, I remember when the Downtown Connector was going to be the be all end all of traffic problems, after that it was I-285, then it was Spaghetti Junction, then 400 and then on and on.
Part of the problem with T-Splost is that they’re trying to fit one regional solution into the whole state. They applied this to the whole state to try to get it passed in Metro Atllanta. My region, which isn’t Metro, doesn’t need any more roads. We’ve already got as many people as our resources can support. Perpetual growth is bound to fail, eventually. Everything that expands will eventually either stop expanding, or explode. The reason Atlanta bought into perpetual growth back in the 50’s and 60’s, is because the Chamber of Commerce crowd and the powers that be, all made a killing off of it. It’s was mainly self-interest disguised as civic interest.
So, my vote is no on the T-Splost in my area. What the people in Atlanta do is their business and they can vote as they see fit. If they build more roads, though, and keep encouraging growth, the solution will be a temporary one at best. Some of us have seen this thing played out, time and again. In my opinion, we all need to get away from perpetual booms and base the economy on something sustainable.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 20th, 2012
4:05 pm
Bart Abel, one of the 10 points in the Communist Manifesto is a progressive income tax.
Which, by the way, we already have.
Again, my point is that you don’t have a limit as to how progressive you want ours to be. When 25% of our people are paying about 80% of our income tax, and when 50% of our people are paying about 100% of our income tax, we have a progressive tax system.
By ANY standard the rich are paying MORE than their fair share in our progressive tax system, Bart Abel.
Michael H. Smith
February 20th, 2012
4:06 pm
A July vote sounds good to me Kyle.
Jefferson
February 20th, 2012
4:09 pm
They have in the past and will in the future pay more, taxes that is. You fish where the fish are.
Hillbilly D
February 20th, 2012
4:09 pm
in the direct hands of the dumb masses.
Is that anyway for an ex-elected official to talk?
Sorry, dude but you put that one right in my wheelhouse.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 20th, 2012
4:14 pm
“Is that anyway for an ex-elected official to talk?”
You bet it is!
Doesn’t everybody always say they’re tired of elected officials lying to them and only telling them what they want to hear?
Brosephus
February 20th, 2012
4:14 pm
HD
When they announced the preliminary plans for the T-SPLOST for the Metro area, I realized they were not serious about easing congestion. If the past 30 years or so have not taught people that you can’t roadbuild your way out of congestion, it’s a lost cause here.
Back in 2010, I got the chance to do a bit of travel around the US. There were some places that had transit systems that made it easy for visitors to get around and see what the city had to offer. Amazingly enough, I usually spent more in those places as opposed to somewhere that required either a rental car or taxi. If the Metro area wanted to do something serious about congestion, roads will not suffice. I can not vote for a plan that I think will be a failure. If the Atlanta area wants to go headfirst into failure, then that’s their choice. I’m not going to assist them though.
Michael H. Smith
February 20th, 2012
4:16 pm
one of the 10 points in the Communist Manifesto is a progressive income tax.
It is actually point number 2 on the Communist Manifesto plank, right behind the prohibition of private ownership of property.
Ever wonder why “Progressives” always call the government of this country a “Democracy” instead of the Republic the founder intended for it to always it to always remain?
The answer to that question is found in the Federalist Paper #10, which addresses point number 1 on the Communist Manifesto plank.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
February 20th, 2012
4:18 pm
Hillbilly D
February 20th, 2012
3:48 pm
Very good points.
But one thing to keep-in-mind is that it hasn’t just necessarily been Atlanta’s overdevelopment industry of overbuilt speculative housing and erstwhile road expansion that has encouraged the massive growth in population in the area over the last several decades as much as it has been geographical. economic and even cultural factors.
Almost every state on the Eastern Seaboard below Maryland (from Maryland south to Florida) has experienced massive population growth in the last few decades partly as a result of the high cost-of-living and colder climate of the overcrowded post-industrial Northeastern states (mainly New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania).
The Maryland suburbs of D.C., Virginia, North Carolina, Florida and even South Carolina, to a limited extent, have all struggled and continue to struggle with explosive population growth that is being fed by a continuous migration from a domineering Northeastern Megalopolitan urban region of close to 50 million people that is anchored by a New York City region that has about 22 million people.
Atlanta gets it even worse in many respects because we also get very heavy migration from the even more post-industrial Great Lakes region, especially from the state of Michigan where some 60 of that state’s more than 80 counties is losing population and the state’s major metro area, Detroit, has and continues to lose population at nearly the same rate that Atlanta and Georgia has gained population over the last four decades or so.
It is the horrific economic (and weather) conditions of the Rust Belt that has and will continue to fuel Atlanta’s explosive population growth. Greedy developers just saw the relocation and migration trend and made money off of it with speculative overdevelopment during the four decades of boom that just recently ended with the recent downturn.
Michael H. Smith
February 20th, 2012
4:19 pm
Oopsy on the sloppy editing job. Time to eat.
Hillbilly D
February 20th, 2012
4:28 pm
last Democrat
Those are valid points but Atlanta did back flips to encourage growth, at least since William Hartsfield. True there’s been growth throughout the South but Atlanta far outpaced cities such as Birmingham and Charlotte for at least the first years of all that. Later on, they caught on to how to ride the cash cow, too. So it’s a combination of factors that resulted in things being the way they are. Some were just “natural forces” so to speak and others were things that Hartsfield/Allen and their successors in both the city and the surrounding counties did to keep the fire hot. (Usually when I refer to Atlanta, I mean Metro Atlanta, that’s just a Hill thing).
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
February 20th, 2012
5:00 pm
Hillbilly D
February 20th, 2012
4:28 pm
Interesting that you mention Birmingham and Charlotte. Birmingham’s growth prospects have improved greatly in the last couple of decades or so, but they are still not quite the hot property that one would expect them to be being located squarely in the middle of the Sunbelt region as the entire state of Alabama has a million fewer people than the Atlanta Region and the population of the Birmingham region is still only one-fifth that of the Atlanta region.
Meanwhile, what many in Georgia don’t necessarily seem to recognize is that Charlotte was hit even harder by the economic downturn than Atlanta with unemployment in Charlotte being AT LEAST a full percentage higher throughout much of the last few years of recessionary conditions as Charlotte was even more dependent on a single sector of the economy in banking and finance than Atlanta was in speculative construction.
In fact, believe it or not, just as Atlanta is afraid of being overtaken by Charlotte, Charlotte is deathly afraid of being overtaken by Raleigh-Durham as Wake County has been outpacing and catching up to Charlotte-Mecklenburg County in recent years because of the much more diverse local economy in the Raleigh-Durham Triangle area which includes numerous major hospitals and a robust medical facilities, the three major research universities (UNC, Duke and NC State) and the major research park that is seemingly on par with Silicon Valley (Research Triangle Park outside of Durham) in addition to just finance to which Charlotte is overly-dependent on to the point of being an economic liability.
td
February 20th, 2012
5:09 pm
Brosephus
February 20th, 2012
12:12 pm
Road
When you don’t want major growth, expansion, or the headaches that come with it, you do not plan for the future. There’s probably a good segment of the South that would be happy if nothing else changed from here until the end of time. I’m not saying that’s a good or bad thing, but that’s why I think the South is more conservative than liberal in it’s leanings.
You are correct with the above statement. The Atlanta metro area can not grow much more because we do not have the water resources to handle more growth. If you want growth then it should be shifted further south in the state.
Hillbilly D
February 20th, 2012
5:10 pm
last Democrat
It’s a variation on the old “putting your eggs in one basket” thing. Works great until something happens to the basket.
td
February 20th, 2012
5:15 pm
Here is a radical thought. With all the technology advances in the past ten or twenty years, then why most people even on the roads most days. The vast majority of office jobs could be done from a persons home and not gathering at centralized location. We should be promoting not building more roads but instead promoting more teleworking. I am sure Kyle could or is doing his job most of the time out of a office setting. I am sure most of the state and Federal employees housed in downtown could do their jobs teleworking. How many staff in law firms need to come to an office? How many architects, engineers, planners need to be at an office everyday?
How is that my progressive friends for thinking progressively?
Bart Abel
February 20th, 2012
5:15 pm
MHS,
Anybody who supports progressive income taxes is a communist because progressive income taxes was among the planks on the communist manifesto? Using that logic if I find some positions that conservatives have in common with Hitler’s Nazis, will you admit that you’re a Nazi? Is that how it works?
Hitler wrote, Hitler wrote: “I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator” Hitler was a Christian and used the Bible to justify his political views. Sound like anybody you know?
Hitler was anti-union. Hitler supported torturing Germany’s enemies. Hitler believed in a having the world’s strongest military. The list goes on.
If your logic justifies calling me a communist, then your logic justifies me calling you a Nazi.
When somebody can justify taxing the poor at higher rates than taxing the wealthy, then I’m all ears. But if the best you’ve got is “you’re a communist,” then you’ve just accused most Americans and most former modern day Presidents communists. And they’re not going to change their minds because you called them a name.
Bart Abel
February 20th, 2012
5:21 pm
By the way, even though Kyle didn’t respond directly to my question at 3:06, he’s made his views known throughout his tenure with the AJC. I cast no aspersions. “Anti-tax” conservatives oppose taxes that fall mostly on the rich and support taxes imposed mostly on the poor and middle classes.
THAT is class warfare.
Brosephus
February 20th, 2012
5:22 pm
td
Fed’s already beat you to that. The bill was passed in 2010, and there’s been a concerted effort at getting as many people who can into the program on the Fed level.
http://www.lifemeetswork.com/federal-telework-bill-passes/
Some agencies can do more teleworking than others.
Do what??????
February 20th, 2012
5:22 pm
“Using that logic if I find some positions that conservatives have in common with Hitler’s Nazis”
Conservatives don’t hate Israel or Jews.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
February 20th, 2012
5:23 pm
Hillbilly D
February 20th, 2012
5:10 pm
Charlotte’s basket almost completely broke when Wachovia was no more. Charlotte may be building the light rail and may be full of stone cold hustlers, but they still don’t have that “it” thing that Atlanta has culturally and logistically which is why Atlanta will continue to grow at a higher clip than a Charlotte albeit a rate that is reduced from the heady rates of the past four decades.
John Galt
February 20th, 2012
5:23 pm
It was also in everyone’s best interest to halt the third of three minimum wage increases in the summer of 2008 as the economy shed jobs left and right.
But we didn’t.
MarkV
February 20th, 2012
5:25 pm
A progressive income tax is not number 2 on the Communist Manifesto plank. A HEAVY progressive or graduated income tax is (my emphasis). Perhaps something like 91% top rate of the “communist” Eisenhower administration?
One of those 10 points in the Communist Manifesto was “Abolition of children’s factory labor in its present form.”
Should we re-institute child labor in the form present at that time, because it is on the Communist Manifesto plank?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
February 20th, 2012
5:34 pm
If we don’t build another subsidized choo choo train station to neighborhoods that no one goes to, where will the local libs sleep, stalk their victims, urinate/defecate and all the other nasty things they do?
bug
February 20th, 2012
5:35 pm
Wingfield will not tell you the truth because he works for liberal newspaper. One fourth 25% of this transportation taxs goes into the each and every counties general fund for them to spend as they wish.
This is because the county tax assessors will not lower the value of you property therefore the state has been making laws for four (4) years to fix it but the county tax assessors are ignoring them.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
February 20th, 2012
5:35 pm
td
February 20th, 2012
5:09 pm
Brosephus
February 20th, 2012
12:12 pm
“You are correct with the above statement. The Atlanta metro area can not grow much more because we do not have the water resources to handle more growth. If you want growth then it should be shifted further south in the state.”
A good way to start to shift some of that growth further south in the state would to connect Atlanta with Columbus, Macon, Warner Robins and Middle Georgia by way high-frequency commuter rail service. And while Atlanta may not be New York or Boston, keep-in-mind that big-city Atlanta and its suburbs and exurbs will always be the primary draw for relocatees because of the job market and the cultural amenities and the hilly to mountainous heavily-treed Northern Suburbs.
td
February 20th, 2012
5:36 pm
Brosephus
February 20th, 2012
5:22 pm
Thank you for the link. Now instead of wasting our time and money on a new tax lets put some serious effort into state government and the private sector.
td
February 20th, 2012
5:41 pm
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?…..
February 20th, 2012
5:35 pm
td
February 20th, 2012
5:09 pm
Brosephus
February 20th, 2012
12:12 pm
A good way to start to shift some of that growth further south in the state would to connect Atlanta with Columbus, Macon, Warner Robins and Middle Georgia by way high-frequency commuter rail service. And while Atlanta may not be New York or Boston, keep-in-mind that big-city Atlanta and its suburbs and exurbs will always be the primary draw for relocatees because of the job market and the cultural amenities and the hilly to mountainous heavily-treed Northern Suburbs.
If companies continue the trend of “In sourcing” jobs to rural areas of states (Kia and now Caterpillar and others) then Atlanta will not be such the big hub. Have to think about the benefit of all the high speed rail with all the technology available to tele conference.
Brosephus
February 20th, 2012
5:52 pm
td
Georgia’s already been at it too.
http://www.spa.ga.gov/employees/telework.asp
Work Away is a statewide initiative that encourages telework and work scheduling options for eligible employees.
I haven’t found anything to show whether it still applies, but there was a tax credit available up to $20k for a business that set up or expanded teleworking at their place of employment.
http://greenlifeatlanta.com/business/georgia-telework-tax-credit-up-to-20000-for-launching-or-expanding-a-telework-program/
The Georgia Telework Tax Credit allows qualified employers to receive a tax credit for starting or expanding a formal telework program. Georgia businesses may be eligible for a tax credit for the expenses incurred to set-up their program, and the expenses incurred to enable each individual new teleworker.
I think it’s more a matter of making things like this known to the general public. One potential downside is that, as a country that relies more on service-based employment, there may be jobs that can not be converted to teleworking jobs. Some of the support staff in my office teleworks a few days out of the week. Due to the nature of the job, though, they still have to have in-office days to deal with different matters.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 20th, 2012
5:59 pm
Bart Abel: “I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator” Hitler was a Christian and used the Bible to justify his political views. Sound like anybody you know?
—————
Yes.
President Barack Obama on Thursday tied his proposal to raise taxes on wealthy Americans to his faith, telling leaders gathered for the National Prayer Breakfast that Jesus’s teachings have shaped that conclusion.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/72363.html#ixzz1mxwlkZu2
Truth Squad
February 20th, 2012
6:08 pm
One cannot have an honest discussion about oil prices without discussing how middle men speculators jack up prices.
As for “$5 gas”, it already costs the American people much more when one factors in the tax dollars spent on foreign interventions, economic degradation and repair (if possible), and etc…
Why is it people who would like to have freedom from the burdens of owning a car (and want less use of fossil fuels) have to pony up to subsidize car owners?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 20th, 2012
6:19 pm
Why is it people who would like to have freedom from the burdens of owning a car (and want less use of fossil fuels) have to pony up to subsidize car owners?
————————-
We subsidize people who want free birth control, free abortions, free sterilizations.
You want big government, you got it.
Deal with it.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 20th, 2012
6:20 pm
“When somebody can justify taxing the poor at higher rates than taxing the wealthy, then I’m all ears.”
Please point out where the United States is taxing the poor on income at higher rates than the rich.
This should be fun.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 20th, 2012
6:23 pm
“One of those 10 points in the Communist Manifesto was “Abolition of children’s factory labor in its present form.”
Should we re-institute child labor in the form present at that time, because it is on the Communist Manifesto plank?”
Once again MarkV proves his reading comprehension skills are just not up to the task.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 20th, 2012
6:26 pm
“Hitler was anti-union. Hitler supported torturing Germany’s enemies. Hitler believed in a having the world’s strongest military. The list goes on. ”
Do not confuse a megalomaniac with a political and economic line of thought, Bart Abel.
Being anti-union is consistent with both the capitalist and fascist economic models, however, that is where the similarity ends and the crazy begins.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 20th, 2012
6:26 pm
Average individual income tax rates, by income:
Lowest quintile: -6.8%
Second quintile: -0.4
Middle quintile: 3.3
Fourth quintile: 6.2
Top quintile: 14.4
All househoulds: 9.3
Top 10 percent: 16.2
Top 5 percent: 17.6
Top 1 percent: 19.0
Anyone who claims the richest pay a lower rate is lying.
Obozo: Liar.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 20th, 2012
6:27 pm
Bart ran away. Too many facts.
Linda
February 20th, 2012
6:27 pm
Kyle starts out with “Gas Prices” & a little over 7 hours later, only 6 conservatives had complained about GAS PRICES & Obama’s roll in causing them to explode. Democrats were all over Bush. Maybe they will still blame Bush. We need some Key Stone Cops to advance the Key Stone Pipeline.
MarkV
February 20th, 2012
6:27 pm
And once again Tiberius proves his lack of intelligence.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 20th, 2012
6:27 pm
Source for income tax rate by quintile:
http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/tax/2010/AverageFedTaxRates2007.pdf
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 20th, 2012
6:36 pm
So please, MarkV, tell us what “Abolition of children’s factory labor in its present form.” is supposed to mean?
Abolition = to stop or remove.
Yet you’re saying it means we should re-institute it.
Is English your primary language, son? Because it sure doesn’t seem so . . .
Truth Squad
February 20th, 2012
6:36 pm
We subsidize people who want free birth control, free abortions, free sterilizations.
You want big government, you got it.
First, government dollars do not fund abortions here at home or abroad, that is the law, it’s called the Hyde Amendment…look it up. Second, given the popularity of birth control, I could care less that my tax dollars help fund those who want to be responsible. I think it is sad that Republicans are down to birth control and $5 gas as their only hope to avoid massive loses this November.
I’ll take note that no one wants to really talk about gas prices beyond certain narrow ideological interests.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 20th, 2012
6:42 pm
Once again, never trust anyone with the word “Truth” in their moniker, as it usually denotes someone unable to separate facts from opinion.
And as such, while government dollars cannot DIRECTLY fund abortions, lump sum grants to organizations could be used to do so, as once the money is in the organization there is little in the way of walls to prevent such money from being used for a particular purpose.
And I’m glad that some folks don’t have a problem with government subsidized birth control, but there are others who do. We are called “the responsible people”.
Truth Squad
February 20th, 2012
6:43 pm
@Linda, maybe if Bush and Cheney hadn’t been oil guys they would not have been blamed? Maybe if Cheney hadn’t conducted secret getogethers with oil companies they might have escaped such scrutiny? And perhaps if they hadn’t invaded Iraq under shaky circumstances people might not find so much blame?
Yes politics had something to do with it, but their actions did nothing to suggest otherwise.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 20th, 2012
6:45 pm
“We” subsidize abortions when King Obozo decrees that health insurance companies have to pay for abortion pills. My statement stands unchallenged.
—————–
“I could care less that my tax dollars help fund those who want [free birth control]”
I think you meant to say “I couldn’t care less…”, but in any case, I couldn’t care less that my tax dollars help fund those who want cheap gasoline.
—————————-
I think it’s sad that Democrats can’t talk about Obozocare or his failed stimulus or his failed economic policies or his failed housing policies or his failed employment policies or the record number of folks on the dole.
MarkV
February 20th, 2012
6:46 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate! @6:36 pm
Yes, Tiberius, I understand your problem. It takes a very small, but non-zero intelligence to understand that the “it” in the sentence “Should we re-institute child labor in the form present at that time, because it is on the Communist Manifesto plank?” referred to the “abolition of children’s factory labor in its present from” in the previous sentence. But people lacking that intelligence focus on this kind of a mystery (for them) when they are incapable of arguing the actual point of the comment.
Truth Squad
February 20th, 2012
6:52 pm
@Tiberius, less access to birth control=more abortions! That is NOT more responsible, in my opinion at least, maybe you want more abortions?
Funny how the same people who hate “Big Government” and regulations have no problems with using the power of government to regulate the most personal of choices for citizens.
Like I said, it is kind of sad to see conservatives so desperate that they want to go after birth control. It is as if you folks are determined to reelect President Obama and in a landslide fashion…thank you!
Truth Squad
February 20th, 2012
6:58 pm
@Lil, I think it is good policy to make birth control more accessible to everyone, so I have no problem with tax dollars funding it. But if you folks want to go after birth control, by all means, y’all go for it!
…and still no one wants to talk about the true cost of gas? Color me surprised!
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
February 20th, 2012
7:06 pm
td
February 20th, 2012
5:41 pm
“If companies continue the trend of “In sourcing” jobs to rural areas of states (Kia and now Caterpillar and others) then Atlanta will not be such the big hub. Have to think about the benefit of all the high speed rail with all the technology available to tele conference.”
Good points. Teleconferencing should definitely be apart of the solution to traffic problems for jobs that can be completed through those means (without being anchored in an office five or six days a week).
But for the many numerous jobs that cannot be completed through teleconferencing, service jobs, research & development, manual labor and skilled trades, maintenance, manufacturing, education, law, medicine, etc, we still need to invest in a multimodal transportation system that includes, expansion and modification of roads, trains and buses.
Though, make no mistake, teleconferencing can play a significant role in helping to abate our traffic and transportation mobility issues, but by no means should it play the only role as the Atlanta region severely needs to cease being singularly dependent on an increasingly inadequate and undersized road network.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
February 20th, 2012
7:14 pm
In a truly multimodal transportation network, trains, buses and teleconferencing compliments and relieves stress and undue pressure off of roads.
Commuters will still drive on the roads in very large numbers as rail and bus cannot go everywhere that automobiles can go and the majority of jobs cannot be done through teleconferencing, but rail and bus can help relieve much stress off of major roads that likely cannot and will not be widened anymore and an incomplete and discontinuous surface road network with obvious limitations.
Hillbilly D
February 20th, 2012
7:17 pm
My guess is that the number of people who could telecommute, if they wanted to, would cover about 10% of the workforce. Curious as to what y’all’s guesses would be.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 20th, 2012
7:27 pm
Truth Squad: But if you folks want to go after birth control, by all means, y’all go for it!
——————-
Who’s “going after birth control”? We’re just trying to hang on to our wallets, while your fascist Idiot Klown Obozo tries to force folks to pay for things that should be the responsibility of the individual, and which violate some people’s religious beliefs.
If you want some birth control, get on down to the Walgreen and get some, losers. Fifty cents a pop.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 20th, 2012
7:29 pm
Truth, how much did you donate to the cause of free birth control for others last year?
Didn’t think so.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 20th, 2012
7:32 pm
“Michelle’s Aspen ski trip marks 16 Obama vacations in three years”
——————–
How many vacations has the average 99-percenter taken in the last three years?
Linda
February 20th, 2012
7:36 pm
Truth Squad@6:36, Govt. dollars don’t pay for abortions? Ahem! Medicaid pays for some abortions & state dollars pay for abortions.
http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/public_funding.html
@6:45, So, Bush was blamed for escalating gas prices because he was a “big oil guy” & because of “secret getogethers” (that you know about) & the invasion of Iraq? So, Obama is NOT being blamed for escalating gas prices because he is not a “big oil guy” & because of no “secret getogethers” (that you know about) & because he escalated the Iraq war & then pulled out, against the advice of his military advisers?
Rafe Hollister
February 20th, 2012
7:36 pm
Kyle, I am in your last group, I will vote No on T-Splost simply because the ones who created this transportation mess are still in charge and have given no indication that they have improved whatsoever.
Putting it off will do no good if Oblamer is reelected. Do you think gas prices are going to come down in a lame duck second term. Gas will probably be close to $7 a gallon at the end of his second term if we are unfortunate and he fools the electorate again. I’m guessing they will go up significantly, as he will use the rising cost of fossil fuels, to double down on the failed solar and wind boondoggles.
Hillbilly,
I think the percentage would be slightly higher than 10%, but I know what you mean. Lots of people do not have the discipline to work at home, too easily distracted and unmotivated, so they end up falling behind with their work, and if they are good employees realize their short comings and quit the telecommuting. The others are fired because they try to get away with the poor productivity. There are others who just like the socialization and crave the office, pity them.
Truth Squad
February 20th, 2012
7:44 pm
@Lil, you keep saying all this stuff about President Obama yet you continue to focus on issues such as birth control which is only going to ensure that he is reelected?
I don’t think guys have caught on yet, but soon as it sinks in that “birth control” includes access to condoms, $5 gas will seem like a quaint issue.
Michael H. Smith
February 20th, 2012
7:44 pm
Bart Abel
February 20th, 2012
5:15 pm
Anyone who would accept the way Hitler perverted the Bible and Christianity as valid and to further use such insanity as logic to present an argument, is just as mentally deranged as Hitler, Brucie.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 20th, 2012
7:46 pm
“It’s in the pro-tax folks’ best interests because, as of now, all the external factors (higher gas, still-sluggish economy, etc.)”
——————-
Don’t forget this factor: Obozo’s array of tax increases at year end. The appetite for self-inflicted TSPLOST taxes should be about nil.
Linda
February 20th, 2012
7:47 pm
Truth, Birth control pills cost as little as $9 per month & are accessible for free.
Do you think women should have the right to pay for them?
Do you think that women should have the right to keep their birth control methods private, that is between them & their doctors (& their drug stores)?
Do you think that women should have the right to keep their birth control methods private, away from the scrutiny of their employers, their insurance companies & the federal govt.?
Hillbilly D
February 20th, 2012
7:50 pm
Rafe
Yeah, there is that side of it, too. It was just my guess that that’s about all the jobs, where you could telecommute; 10%, give or take. Of course, I’m a bit of an anomaly on here I guess because I live in a blue collar world. I can only think of one or two posters, offhand, that don’t work in white collar or office type jobs. That’s, of course, of the ones who I know their occupations. Most of them I have no clue what they do.
Michael H. Smith
February 20th, 2012
8:02 pm
Disclaimer: As long as birth control means devices or drugs that prevention of conception and not a means termination of life after conception for any reasons other than: Rape, Incest or threat to the life of the mother.
Do you think women should have the right to pay for them(birth control drugs)?
Yep! If they want to. However as you pointed they can be free of charge.
Do you think that women should have the right to keep their birth control methods private, that is between them & their doctors (& their drug stores)?
Yep!
Do you think that women should have the right to keep their birth control methods private, away from the scrutiny of their employers, their insurance companies & the federal govt.?
Might be difficult but yep.
And though I support religious freedoms of others who against birth control as defined in my disclaimer, I personal support the use of any and all means of birth control that prevents conceptions and have no problem paying for through insurance premiums and taxes to provide such prevention. Sterilization only after a woman has under gone a thorough medical evaluation and exhaustive consultation from a doctor, due to the seriousness of the consequences after such operations.
Michael H. Smith
February 20th, 2012
8:09 pm
Just fill in the blanksif you will Linda… the only thing worse than my typing skills, are my editing abilities and I’m on a real roll tonight.
Linda
February 20th, 2012
8:12 pm
Truth, Donors who donated to Komen & women who participated in walks for the cause, who ended up with bleeding feet, were unaware that Komen was donating to Planned Parenthood. We are appalled! Donations in the form of money to & participation in Komen fundraisers will decrease. How many women will DIE as a result of Komen’s decision to continue to subsidize abortions rather than concentrating on research?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 20th, 2012
8:15 pm
How many women will DIE as a result of Komen’s decision
———————
About the same as the number of males who will die, since the unborn are about 50/50 of each sex.
Truth Squad
February 20th, 2012
8:18 pm
@Linda, the idea is to keep them free thanks to various programs and Obamacare. I don’t want to hear about abortions from those who oppose birth control because less of one leads to more of the other.
I believe men and government don’t have babies and really should keep quiet about certain matters regarding giving birth or not.
Lastly, I think Republican overreach on this matter is going to hasten the end to employer-based health care.
Well, I see this blog post is no longer about gas prices and mass transit. I do know that the longer we pretend that oil isn’t a finite resource, the more costly it is going to be to build mass transit. Those states that build mass transit will be more attractive for business. Traffic is ruining our quality of life which has been a good selling point for the area and the state. I believe people will choose jobs and improved quality of life over outdated ideology and fear.
Brosephus
February 20th, 2012
8:19 pm
HD
I’d wager upwards to 30% because of the IT fields. Other than that, there are way too many hands-on service jobs to make telecommuting very effective here.
Linda
February 20th, 2012
8:19 pm
Truth, Do you think a 75-year-old woman & a woman (with 4 children) who has had a tubalisation should be forced to have the same insurance coverage as a 25-year-old woman who is newly married?
Rafe Hollister
February 20th, 2012
8:31 pm
Hillbilly
Sorry, I didn’t get your point. You are right, telecommuting doesn’t work for the trades and blue collar workers. But, most of the mind numbed robots traversing the highways into and out of Atlanta are State and Federal workers, Coca-Cola, Commercial Real Estate folks etc. Not that much manufacturing going on anymore, excluding Lockheed, since GM and Ford shut down in Atlanta, and no construction jobs anymore.
Rafe Hollister
February 20th, 2012
8:37 pm
Lastly, I think Republican overreach on this matter is going to hasten the end to employer-based health care.
_____________________________
Not sure that is a bad thing. We should buy medical policies like we buy life insurance and long term health care insurance and car insurance. We should be able to deduct the cost like the employers are allowed to do.
That way I could exempt, birth control, maternity, drug addiction, mental health insurance, and just pay for the things that may happen to me. Maybe it would cost less.
Linda
February 20th, 2012
8:38 pm
Truth@8:18, “Keep them free?” Who is “them?” Are you talking about women, i.e. me?
NO ONE opposes birth control except the Catholic religion.
If you believe that “men & govt….really should keep quiet about certain matters regarding giving birth,” then you are opposed to Obama’s agenda & your own statements above.
There is NO “Republican overreach on this matter that is going to hasten the end to employer-based health care.” Obamacare forces employers to provide health care for the first time in history. That’s an overreach. Obamacare forces religious institutions who oppose birth control to provide birth control, against the separation of church & state, for the first time in history. That’s an overreach. Obamacare forces insurance companies to provide birth control for free, for the first time in history. That’s an overreach.
Obamacare is designed to end employer-based health care.
Hillbilly D
February 20th, 2012
8:49 pm
Bro, Rafe
I was just guessing at the 10%. I guess it could be higher given that Atlanta is the Capitol. Of course, it might help the traffic, if they moved the capitol back to Milledgeville.
Brosephus
February 20th, 2012
8:53 pm
HD
That probably would help out a bit, quite a bit. My guess is probably on the high side, but I’m of the opinion that a secretary/exec asst could probably telecommute some days and not be missed in the office.
Rafe
Remember that some of us mind numbed people ensure you have the freedom to call us such without having to worry about it.
Ted
February 20th, 2012
10:07 pm
Just a big thumbs down to Mike Luckovich for taking no comments, ever. Obviously, his skin is thinner than those he criticizes in his cartoons. Shocking! He can dish it out, but certainly can’t take it, even a small dose. Appreciate Wingfield who actually does write about things of substance.
Dumb and Dumber
February 20th, 2012
10:43 pm
Luckovich stopped taking comments because of all the hate mail and death threats. He’s a cartoonist, not a paid-typist like Kyle; he doesn’t have to care what you think. He’s got a couple of Pulitzer prizes to his credit … which is a couple hundred percent more than Kyle. You don’t have to read his cartoons if they offend you … its called…wait for it … freedom of choice. I know, conservatives hate that phrase.
As for the Road Tax vote — it was designed to fail be the GOP controlled Gold-Domers. They wanted to show they did something about transportation — so they punted — and in typical fashion — didn’t think it through. Now they realize they will be blamed for this Lipsticked-Pig and they want to change the rules. I hope they have the election in August when they planned and it goes down in flames so that people in this state will stop reflexively supporting anyone who calls himself “conservative” — because the Georgia version of “conservative” is incapable of effectively governing and they are set to prove it, again.
Enjoy Your Car!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 21st, 2012
6:37 am
He’s got a couple of Pulitzer prizes to his credit
———————-
Yes, and Obozo won the Nobel Peace Prize! Sometimes the award says more about the awarder than the awardee. And folks who don’t slavishly hew to the leftist line don’t win Pulitzers.
Not impressed.
@@
February 21st, 2012
7:08 am
That list proposes that the road in front of my house be widened to 4-lanes. My neighbors are vehemently opposed. I’m going to follow the directive of AJC leftists and love my neighbor.
NO to T-SPLOST!!!
I’m lookin’ for land on a dirt road.
Road Scholar
February 21st, 2012
9:10 am
@@: Never buy a house on a road with a painted centerline! Advice my mom, a real estate broker, gave me. It’s true! Traffic will not decrease! And good luck trying to beat the need to widen.
Out by the Pond
February 21st, 2012
9:51 am
How does a blog about a local sales tax degenerate into so much hate for the President of the United States. There are some really small minds out there. Just saying
Road Scholar
February 21st, 2012
10:15 am
Out: It is amazing , isn’t it! There is just so much anger, and hate out there. Sometimes I think people feel they are protected by their “Anonymous” comments since they sit behind their keyboards. Some people are just trying to get a “rise” out of others. Some are just uninformed. Those are the ones I feel sorry for! Hope you have a good day!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 21st, 2012
10:42 am
Thanks for your situational concern, hypocrites.
Jeff
February 21st, 2012
11:57 am
Allright all you people out there I am going to break this down for you. The TIA TSPLOST will help this state. What is the one thing that everyone is worried about right now? The answer is jobs. If this TSPLOST is passed it will create jobs in the roadway construction industry. Jobs mean an improving economy. Also to the people that think this TSPLOST will bring more roads to the state you might want to look at the projects on the list. Most of the projects are to improve what we already have. And do not worrry. I will be surprised if gas gets to $4.00 this year. I beleive last year the same analysts were predicting $5.00 a gallon gas. We never saw $4.00 in Georgia.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 21st, 2012
12:20 pm
TSPLOST may create construction jobs, but it will destroy other jobs. Taking tax revenue to pay for roads, etc, means those dollars aren’t spent elsewhere.
The jobs argument is bogus. TSPLOST should be decided based on a cost-benefit analysis, which libtards hate because it usually means they don’t get more power and more of our money.
Jeff
February 21st, 2012
1:33 pm
Barry please educate us on how exactly it will destroy jobs? By the way your cost benefit analysis comment shows that you are not educated on the issue at all. The folks at GDOT have already done a cost benefit analysis. I think you may want to furthur educate yourself before you open your mouth again.
I will break it down even furthur for you. The money the Federal Government gives GDOT to build and maintain our road system is drying up fast. With out the TSPLOST the current problem will just get worse.
Also if the TSPLST does not pass they will have to go to plan b. A tax based on how much you drive. So would you like to pay maybe a few extra cents on most of your purchases for the next 10 years, or possibly have to pay a per mile tax that may never end?