Gas prices add to case for delaying T-SPLOST vote
Take the news today about gasoline prices locally (from AJC.com) …
The average price for a gallon of unleaded regular stood at $3.55 Monday, up 3 cents from a week ago and 45 cents from this time a year ago, according to AAA.
The price has risen 15 cents a gallon in the past month.
Georgia’s average price is just slightly below the national average of $3.56, which is the highest price ever for this time of year, the Associated Press reported. Since January, a gallon of gas has risen 25 cents per gallon.
… add this prediction nationally from a Friday story in the San Jose Mercury News (note the part I’ve bolded) …
Some oil analysts predict $4.50 a gallon or more by Memorial Day on the West Coast and major cities across the United States such as Chicago, New York and Atlanta.
… and tell me how this news improves the T-SPLOST’s chances of being approved by voters in a referendum scheduled for July.
On one hand, I suppose a project list with half the spending dedicated to mass transit could be seen in better light if gasoline prices are higher. But that premise depends on voters’ believing those transit projects will benefit them personally, and I still don’t think many voters will review the list and believe that’s true for them.
It’s more likely, I think, that a potential increase of about 28 percent in gas prices (adding $1/gallon to the present $3.55) would put consumers in no mood to add a 1 percent tax to everything they buy — up to a 9 percent sales tax in Atlanta if the 1 percent tax for water/sewer infrastructure is renewed next month.
I say again: It would be in everyone’s best interests to put off this tax for a couple of years. It’s in the pro-tax folks’ best interests because, as of now, all the external factors (higher gas, still-sluggish economy, etc.) seem to be going against them. It’s in the skeptics’ best interests — assuming they could be persuaded to support a better project list — because it would allow time to rework the list. Only the absolutely anti-tax group should favor a July T-SPLOST vote at this point.
I put out that idea last fall without a great deal of optimism that it would take root. But earlier this month, a trio of legislators proposed legislation pretty much along the lines of what I advocated. Will their colleagues listen?
– By Kyle Wingfield
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
147 comments Add your comment
Atlien
February 20th, 2012
2:15 pm
Attitudes will change when we get $5, $6, $7, $8 gas. With the federal reserve cranking up the printing presses, it’s not too far away.
retiredds
February 20th, 2012
2:16 pm
Remember folks, the great US of A no longer controls the price of gas and won’t for a long time, if ever. Think Iran, the middle east, China, India, and other developing nations who also want to purchase gas to fill their cars and trucks. Those who took Econ 101 will remember how the supply/demand curve works. It doesn’t matter how much energy the US produces, the market (and therefore the price) is a function of too much global demand and not enough supply. Also the US is now exporting energy products. The problem in GA and some part of the political establishment who think (and espouse to their political bases) we can go back to the way it was, i.e. cheap gas and the US in control of the energy market. That’s is a pipe dream my friends. These politicos might as well be urging us to believe that the earth is flat.
Re the T-Splost: If the Atlanta area says no, that’s fine with me. Those of us who chose years ago to live inside the perimeter have several transportation choices other than the car (although that is also one). Living very near Emory U. there are several MARTA and Emory Shuttle options, walking or riding a bike included. Our neighborhood is one block from the grocery and many good restaurants. But for those of you who have chosen to live in areas where the auto is your only option you might want to consider some alternatives (some of which might be in the T-Splost proposals). But if you don’t look at the alternative offerings and just vote no because some politician tells you to then don’t complain after the fact if traffic gets worse and worse (and it will because there is no Plan B). If there is no balance in the transportation picture for ATL, you will be doomed to the continued failure of basing your commuting and other trips on the auto and can look forward to no improvement in the traffic woes of the region.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 20th, 2012
2:20 pm
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Bart Abel.
Tax the poor, protect the rich.
We get your class warfare talking points.
Kyle Wingfield
February 20th, 2012
2:23 pm
Shorter Bart: When Kyle admits to the worst aspersions I can cast on him, I’ll admit he’s right.
Sigh.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
February 20th, 2012
2:43 pm
The T-SPLOST isn’t necessarily a must at this point as all that needs to be done to come up with more money for road construction on a yearly basis is to take the one-percent of the state’s gas tax that currently goes into the general fund and divert it to road construction. Diverting that one-percent from the state’s general fund to road construction isn’t the be-all end-all to the state’s road financing woes, but it is a VERY BIG start to making some long-overdue road improvements.
Brosephus
February 20th, 2012
2:50 pm
Tiberius
I read here almost daily but just don’t comment. I’d cosign your point in that the elected officials should make the decision instead of abdicating their jobs using “democracy” as a cover.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
February 20th, 2012
2:59 pm
The T-SPLOST is also far from a must for improvement and expansion of mass transit at this point as all that the state needs to do to expand rail is to take the same public-private partnership approach that they were going to do in building HOT lanes on I-75/I-575 through Cobb County and instead apply it to something that can really seriously tremendously help traffic but that strangely seems to be overlooked and left out of the transportation conversation, especially in the I-75 NW and I-85 NE corridors, and that is COMMUTER RAIL.
All that the state needs to do get commuter rail up-and-running in the Atlanta Region is to get private companies to finance the bulk of the cost of the modifying the existing freight rail lines on which commuter trains are already proposed to run by our very own Georgia Department of Transportation and pay the rest of the cost of implementing commuter rail with bonds paid back over the long-term with train fares.
Public-private partnerships are much more compatible on rail transit (first commuter rail, then eventually light rail, heavy rail and even bus) than on toll lanes because rail transit, when compentently managed, is designed and intended to carry increased numbers of commuters during peak-periods than toll lanes where the tolls are adjusted up to force traffic out of the lanes.
This is something that is so simple that babies with down syndrome have already got it figured out, unlike our intellectually-challenged state legislators who will be thinking this through while we continue to sit in worsening traffic jams of Biblical proportions.
There are no excuses. These are all VERY SIMPLE steps that could have been implemented years ago WITHOUT raising taxes.
Bart Abel
February 20th, 2012
3:01 pm
Tiberius. I’m not sure why imposing regressive taxes in which the poor and middle class pay a larger share than the wealthy is not class warfare and defending against them is. But if you say so.
My comments, Kyle, are only aspersions if they’re not true. They are true.
People don’t realize or understand the regressive, death by a thousand cuts, nature of regressive taxes. Professional “anti-tax” conservative politicians and pundits rely on such ignorance and it explains how they have been able to continue to support and promote regressive taxes without losing their base. Tiberius illustrates this truth nicely.
Bart Abel
February 20th, 2012
3:06 pm
Kyle: I could be persuaded to support the tax if I felt it would pay for worthwhile infrastructure
Kyle,
Could you be persuaded to support a progressive income tax if you felt it would pay for worthwhile construction instead of a regressive sales tax?
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
February 20th, 2012
3:09 pm
Oh yeah, BTW, here are some links to preliminary plans for a commuter rail network in the Atlanta Region:
http://www.dot.state.ga.us/travelingingeorgia/rail/Documents/CommuterRailMap.pdf
http://www.dot.state.ga.us/maps/Documents/railroad/nga_passenger.pdf
eric gall
February 20th, 2012
3:13 pm
5.00 a gallon and ocommie nixed the canada pipeline which would havwe provided 700,000 gallons of oil a day to us? cant drill offshore? he should be impeached for not sticking to the oath he took to defend this country, that =includes economic emergencies or attac, foreign or domestic. these people in the white house now think they are so much smarter than us, yet have no common sense whatso ever. of course, commie pukes dont think like real americans.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 20th, 2012
3:13 pm
carlosgvv: These high gas prices are all the fault of that African Socialist Atheist non-American Obama who wants to destory America. How do I know this?
———
Because that’s what libtards told the Democrat sheeple to think, between 2000-2008 that is.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 20th, 2012
3:18 pm
“People don’t realize or understand the regressive, death by a thousand cuts, nature of regressive taxes.”
And yet “people” do understand that the term “regressive” is simply communist code-speak for soak the rich and continue to give the poor a pass.
“Could you be persuaded to support a progressive income tax if you felt it would pay for worthwhile construction”
We already have that. You just want to make it MORE progressive than it already is.
Bart Abel
February 20th, 2012
3:44 pm
yet “people” do understand that the term “regressive” is simply communist code-speak for soak the rich and continue to give the poor a pass.
I know that Tiberius is fully indoctrinated and beyond deprogramming, but the word “regressive” is actually an economic term with a specific definition. By definition, a regressive tax is one in which the less you make, the higher the percentage of your income you pay. And the more you make, the lower a percentage of your income you pay.
If being against taxing the poor at higher rates than taxing the middle class and being against taxing the middle class at higher rates than taxing the rich makes me a communist, then I’m a communist. But, for the record, it doesn’t, and I’m not.
Tiberius doesn’t know what communism is, otherwise he wouldn’t play so fast and loose with the word.
Hillbilly D
February 20th, 2012
3:48 pm
Brocephus
Good to see you; I’ve been out and about. Your initial point, that more roads bring more people and more traffic, is one that can easily be seen by what’s happened in Metro Atlanta in the last 40-50 years. I remember when I-85 stopped at Norcross,I remember when I-20 was being built inside what is now 285, I remember when the Downtown Connector was going to be the be all end all of traffic problems, after that it was I-285, then it was Spaghetti Junction, then 400 and then on and on.
Part of the problem with T-Splost is that they’re trying to fit one regional solution into the whole state. They applied this to the whole state to try to get it passed in Metro Atllanta. My region, which isn’t Metro, doesn’t need any more roads. We’ve already got as many people as our resources can support. Perpetual growth is bound to fail, eventually. Everything that expands will eventually either stop expanding, or explode. The reason Atlanta bought into perpetual growth back in the 50’s and 60’s, is because the Chamber of Commerce crowd and the powers that be, all made a killing off of it. It’s was mainly self-interest disguised as civic interest.
So, my vote is no on the T-Splost in my area. What the people in Atlanta do is their business and they can vote as they see fit. If they build more roads, though, and keep encouraging growth, the solution will be a temporary one at best. Some of us have seen this thing played out, time and again. In my opinion, we all need to get away from perpetual booms and base the economy on something sustainable.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 20th, 2012
4:05 pm
Bart Abel, one of the 10 points in the Communist Manifesto is a progressive income tax.
Which, by the way, we already have.
Again, my point is that you don’t have a limit as to how progressive you want ours to be. When 25% of our people are paying about 80% of our income tax, and when 50% of our people are paying about 100% of our income tax, we have a progressive tax system.
By ANY standard the rich are paying MORE than their fair share in our progressive tax system, Bart Abel.
Michael H. Smith
February 20th, 2012
4:06 pm
A July vote sounds good to me Kyle.
Jefferson
February 20th, 2012
4:09 pm
They have in the past and will in the future pay more, taxes that is. You fish where the fish are.
Hillbilly D
February 20th, 2012
4:09 pm
in the direct hands of the dumb masses.
Is that anyway for an ex-elected official to talk?
Sorry, dude but you put that one right in my wheelhouse.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 20th, 2012
4:14 pm
“Is that anyway for an ex-elected official to talk?”
You bet it is!
Doesn’t everybody always say they’re tired of elected officials lying to them and only telling them what they want to hear?
Brosephus
February 20th, 2012
4:14 pm
HD
When they announced the preliminary plans for the T-SPLOST for the Metro area, I realized they were not serious about easing congestion. If the past 30 years or so have not taught people that you can’t roadbuild your way out of congestion, it’s a lost cause here.
Back in 2010, I got the chance to do a bit of travel around the US. There were some places that had transit systems that made it easy for visitors to get around and see what the city had to offer. Amazingly enough, I usually spent more in those places as opposed to somewhere that required either a rental car or taxi. If the Metro area wanted to do something serious about congestion, roads will not suffice. I can not vote for a plan that I think will be a failure. If the Atlanta area wants to go headfirst into failure, then that’s their choice. I’m not going to assist them though.
Michael H. Smith
February 20th, 2012
4:16 pm
one of the 10 points in the Communist Manifesto is a progressive income tax.
It is actually point number 2 on the Communist Manifesto plank, right behind the prohibition of private ownership of property.
Ever wonder why “Progressives” always call the government of this country a “Democracy” instead of the Republic the founder intended for it to always it to always remain?
The answer to that question is found in the Federalist Paper #10, which addresses point number 1 on the Communist Manifesto plank.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
February 20th, 2012
4:18 pm
Hillbilly D
February 20th, 2012
3:48 pm
Very good points.
But one thing to keep-in-mind is that it hasn’t just necessarily been Atlanta’s overdevelopment industry of overbuilt speculative housing and erstwhile road expansion that has encouraged the massive growth in population in the area over the last several decades as much as it has been geographical. economic and even cultural factors.
Almost every state on the Eastern Seaboard below Maryland (from Maryland south to Florida) has experienced massive population growth in the last few decades partly as a result of the high cost-of-living and colder climate of the overcrowded post-industrial Northeastern states (mainly New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania).
The Maryland suburbs of D.C., Virginia, North Carolina, Florida and even South Carolina, to a limited extent, have all struggled and continue to struggle with explosive population growth that is being fed by a continuous migration from a domineering Northeastern Megalopolitan urban region of close to 50 million people that is anchored by a New York City region that has about 22 million people.
Atlanta gets it even worse in many respects because we also get very heavy migration from the even more post-industrial Great Lakes region, especially from the state of Michigan where some 60 of that state’s more than 80 counties is losing population and the state’s major metro area, Detroit, has and continues to lose population at nearly the same rate that Atlanta and Georgia has gained population over the last four decades or so.
It is the horrific economic (and weather) conditions of the Rust Belt that has and will continue to fuel Atlanta’s explosive population growth. Greedy developers just saw the relocation and migration trend and made money off of it with speculative overdevelopment during the four decades of boom that just recently ended with the recent downturn.
Michael H. Smith
February 20th, 2012
4:19 pm
Oopsy on the sloppy editing job. Time to eat.
Hillbilly D
February 20th, 2012
4:28 pm
last Democrat
Those are valid points but Atlanta did back flips to encourage growth, at least since William Hartsfield. True there’s been growth throughout the South but Atlanta far outpaced cities such as Birmingham and Charlotte for at least the first years of all that. Later on, they caught on to how to ride the cash cow, too. So it’s a combination of factors that resulted in things being the way they are. Some were just “natural forces” so to speak and others were things that Hartsfield/Allen and their successors in both the city and the surrounding counties did to keep the fire hot. (Usually when I refer to Atlanta, I mean Metro Atlanta, that’s just a Hill thing).
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
February 20th, 2012
5:00 pm
Hillbilly D
February 20th, 2012
4:28 pm
Interesting that you mention Birmingham and Charlotte. Birmingham’s growth prospects have improved greatly in the last couple of decades or so, but they are still not quite the hot property that one would expect them to be being located squarely in the middle of the Sunbelt region as the entire state of Alabama has a million fewer people than the Atlanta Region and the population of the Birmingham region is still only one-fifth that of the Atlanta region.
Meanwhile, what many in Georgia don’t necessarily seem to recognize is that Charlotte was hit even harder by the economic downturn than Atlanta with unemployment in Charlotte being AT LEAST a full percentage higher throughout much of the last few years of recessionary conditions as Charlotte was even more dependent on a single sector of the economy in banking and finance than Atlanta was in speculative construction.
In fact, believe it or not, just as Atlanta is afraid of being overtaken by Charlotte, Charlotte is deathly afraid of being overtaken by Raleigh-Durham as Wake County has been outpacing and catching up to Charlotte-Mecklenburg County in recent years because of the much more diverse local economy in the Raleigh-Durham Triangle area which includes numerous major hospitals and a robust medical facilities, the three major research universities (UNC, Duke and NC State) and the major research park that is seemingly on par with Silicon Valley (Research Triangle Park outside of Durham) in addition to just finance to which Charlotte is overly-dependent on to the point of being an economic liability.
td
February 20th, 2012
5:09 pm
Brosephus
February 20th, 2012
12:12 pm
Road
When you don’t want major growth, expansion, or the headaches that come with it, you do not plan for the future. There’s probably a good segment of the South that would be happy if nothing else changed from here until the end of time. I’m not saying that’s a good or bad thing, but that’s why I think the South is more conservative than liberal in it’s leanings.
You are correct with the above statement. The Atlanta metro area can not grow much more because we do not have the water resources to handle more growth. If you want growth then it should be shifted further south in the state.
Hillbilly D
February 20th, 2012
5:10 pm
last Democrat
It’s a variation on the old “putting your eggs in one basket” thing. Works great until something happens to the basket.
td
February 20th, 2012
5:15 pm
Here is a radical thought. With all the technology advances in the past ten or twenty years, then why most people even on the roads most days. The vast majority of office jobs could be done from a persons home and not gathering at centralized location. We should be promoting not building more roads but instead promoting more teleworking. I am sure Kyle could or is doing his job most of the time out of a office setting. I am sure most of the state and Federal employees housed in downtown could do their jobs teleworking. How many staff in law firms need to come to an office? How many architects, engineers, planners need to be at an office everyday?
How is that my progressive friends for thinking progressively?
Bart Abel
February 20th, 2012
5:15 pm
MHS,
Anybody who supports progressive income taxes is a communist because progressive income taxes was among the planks on the communist manifesto? Using that logic if I find some positions that conservatives have in common with Hitler’s Nazis, will you admit that you’re a Nazi? Is that how it works?
Hitler wrote, Hitler wrote: “I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator” Hitler was a Christian and used the Bible to justify his political views. Sound like anybody you know?
Hitler was anti-union. Hitler supported torturing Germany’s enemies. Hitler believed in a having the world’s strongest military. The list goes on.
If your logic justifies calling me a communist, then your logic justifies me calling you a Nazi.
When somebody can justify taxing the poor at higher rates than taxing the wealthy, then I’m all ears. But if the best you’ve got is “you’re a communist,” then you’ve just accused most Americans and most former modern day Presidents communists. And they’re not going to change their minds because you called them a name.
Bart Abel
February 20th, 2012
5:21 pm
By the way, even though Kyle didn’t respond directly to my question at 3:06, he’s made his views known throughout his tenure with the AJC. I cast no aspersions. “Anti-tax” conservatives oppose taxes that fall mostly on the rich and support taxes imposed mostly on the poor and middle classes.
THAT is class warfare.
Brosephus
February 20th, 2012
5:22 pm
td
Fed’s already beat you to that. The bill was passed in 2010, and there’s been a concerted effort at getting as many people who can into the program on the Fed level.
http://www.lifemeetswork.com/federal-telework-bill-passes/
Some agencies can do more teleworking than others.
Do what??????
February 20th, 2012
5:22 pm
“Using that logic if I find some positions that conservatives have in common with Hitler’s Nazis”
Conservatives don’t hate Israel or Jews.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
February 20th, 2012
5:23 pm
Hillbilly D
February 20th, 2012
5:10 pm
Charlotte’s basket almost completely broke when Wachovia was no more. Charlotte may be building the light rail and may be full of stone cold hustlers, but they still don’t have that “it” thing that Atlanta has culturally and logistically which is why Atlanta will continue to grow at a higher clip than a Charlotte albeit a rate that is reduced from the heady rates of the past four decades.
John Galt
February 20th, 2012
5:23 pm
It was also in everyone’s best interest to halt the third of three minimum wage increases in the summer of 2008 as the economy shed jobs left and right.
But we didn’t.
MarkV
February 20th, 2012
5:25 pm
A progressive income tax is not number 2 on the Communist Manifesto plank. A HEAVY progressive or graduated income tax is (my emphasis). Perhaps something like 91% top rate of the “communist” Eisenhower administration?
One of those 10 points in the Communist Manifesto was “Abolition of children’s factory labor in its present form.”
Should we re-institute child labor in the form present at that time, because it is on the Communist Manifesto plank?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
February 20th, 2012
5:34 pm
If we don’t build another subsidized choo choo train station to neighborhoods that no one goes to, where will the local libs sleep, stalk their victims, urinate/defecate and all the other nasty things they do?
bug
February 20th, 2012
5:35 pm
Wingfield will not tell you the truth because he works for liberal newspaper. One fourth 25% of this transportation taxs goes into the each and every counties general fund for them to spend as they wish.
This is because the county tax assessors will not lower the value of you property therefore the state has been making laws for four (4) years to fix it but the county tax assessors are ignoring them.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
February 20th, 2012
5:35 pm
td
February 20th, 2012
5:09 pm
Brosephus
February 20th, 2012
12:12 pm
“You are correct with the above statement. The Atlanta metro area can not grow much more because we do not have the water resources to handle more growth. If you want growth then it should be shifted further south in the state.”
A good way to start to shift some of that growth further south in the state would to connect Atlanta with Columbus, Macon, Warner Robins and Middle Georgia by way high-frequency commuter rail service. And while Atlanta may not be New York or Boston, keep-in-mind that big-city Atlanta and its suburbs and exurbs will always be the primary draw for relocatees because of the job market and the cultural amenities and the hilly to mountainous heavily-treed Northern Suburbs.
td
February 20th, 2012
5:36 pm
Brosephus
February 20th, 2012
5:22 pm
Thank you for the link. Now instead of wasting our time and money on a new tax lets put some serious effort into state government and the private sector.
td
February 20th, 2012
5:41 pm
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?…..
February 20th, 2012
5:35 pm
td
February 20th, 2012
5:09 pm
Brosephus
February 20th, 2012
12:12 pm
A good way to start to shift some of that growth further south in the state would to connect Atlanta with Columbus, Macon, Warner Robins and Middle Georgia by way high-frequency commuter rail service. And while Atlanta may not be New York or Boston, keep-in-mind that big-city Atlanta and its suburbs and exurbs will always be the primary draw for relocatees because of the job market and the cultural amenities and the hilly to mountainous heavily-treed Northern Suburbs.
If companies continue the trend of “In sourcing” jobs to rural areas of states (Kia and now Caterpillar and others) then Atlanta will not be such the big hub. Have to think about the benefit of all the high speed rail with all the technology available to tele conference.
Brosephus
February 20th, 2012
5:52 pm
td
Georgia’s already been at it too.
http://www.spa.ga.gov/employees/telework.asp
Work Away is a statewide initiative that encourages telework and work scheduling options for eligible employees.
I haven’t found anything to show whether it still applies, but there was a tax credit available up to $20k for a business that set up or expanded teleworking at their place of employment.
http://greenlifeatlanta.com/business/georgia-telework-tax-credit-up-to-20000-for-launching-or-expanding-a-telework-program/
The Georgia Telework Tax Credit allows qualified employers to receive a tax credit for starting or expanding a formal telework program. Georgia businesses may be eligible for a tax credit for the expenses incurred to set-up their program, and the expenses incurred to enable each individual new teleworker.
I think it’s more a matter of making things like this known to the general public. One potential downside is that, as a country that relies more on service-based employment, there may be jobs that can not be converted to teleworking jobs. Some of the support staff in my office teleworks a few days out of the week. Due to the nature of the job, though, they still have to have in-office days to deal with different matters.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 20th, 2012
5:59 pm
Bart Abel: “I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator” Hitler was a Christian and used the Bible to justify his political views. Sound like anybody you know?
—————
Yes.
President Barack Obama on Thursday tied his proposal to raise taxes on wealthy Americans to his faith, telling leaders gathered for the National Prayer Breakfast that Jesus’s teachings have shaped that conclusion.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/72363.html#ixzz1mxwlkZu2
Truth Squad
February 20th, 2012
6:08 pm
One cannot have an honest discussion about oil prices without discussing how middle men speculators jack up prices.
As for “$5 gas”, it already costs the American people much more when one factors in the tax dollars spent on foreign interventions, economic degradation and repair (if possible), and etc…
Why is it people who would like to have freedom from the burdens of owning a car (and want less use of fossil fuels) have to pony up to subsidize car owners?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 20th, 2012
6:19 pm
Why is it people who would like to have freedom from the burdens of owning a car (and want less use of fossil fuels) have to pony up to subsidize car owners?
————————-
We subsidize people who want free birth control, free abortions, free sterilizations.
You want big government, you got it.
Deal with it.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 20th, 2012
6:20 pm
“When somebody can justify taxing the poor at higher rates than taxing the wealthy, then I’m all ears.”
Please point out where the United States is taxing the poor on income at higher rates than the rich.
This should be fun.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 20th, 2012
6:23 pm
“One of those 10 points in the Communist Manifesto was “Abolition of children’s factory labor in its present form.”
Should we re-institute child labor in the form present at that time, because it is on the Communist Manifesto plank?”
Once again MarkV proves his reading comprehension skills are just not up to the task.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
February 20th, 2012
6:26 pm
“Hitler was anti-union. Hitler supported torturing Germany’s enemies. Hitler believed in a having the world’s strongest military. The list goes on. ”
Do not confuse a megalomaniac with a political and economic line of thought, Bart Abel.
Being anti-union is consistent with both the capitalist and fascist economic models, however, that is where the similarity ends and the crazy begins.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 20th, 2012
6:26 pm
Average individual income tax rates, by income:
Lowest quintile: -6.8%
Second quintile: -0.4
Middle quintile: 3.3
Fourth quintile: 6.2
Top quintile: 14.4
All househoulds: 9.3
Top 10 percent: 16.2
Top 5 percent: 17.6
Top 1 percent: 19.0
Anyone who claims the richest pay a lower rate is lying.
Obozo: Liar.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 20th, 2012
6:27 pm
Bart ran away. Too many facts.