Charter schools amendment can fix our court-made mess
House Speaker David Ralston has said he “didn’t know if we were living in an era of two-thirds votes anymore.” We’ll soon find out.
Last week, Ralston’s House rejected a constitutional amendment restoring the state’s authority to establish charter schools. The measure needed 120 votes but received 110. (It would also need a two-thirds majority in the Senate and a simple majority in a referendum this fall.)
A day later, the House voted to give the measure another chance, as soon as today. Two chief objections stand in the way of at least 10 lawmakers changing their minds.
The first is that the General Assembly should favor local control. This is a familiar refrain, particularly among Republicans. While seven Democrats voted for the amendment, other Democrats like to throw that phrase back in the GOP’s collective face when it departs from that orthodoxy.
But no control is more local than that exercised by parents and students. And this issue is chiefly about them.
Yes, a school board is more local than the state, as far as which level of government would have the authority to empower parents. But the power at the heart of this matter is not the power to approve a charter school, but the power to run that school.
This amendment would let the state grant that more important power to the parents who would send their children to a proposed charter. School systems want to keep it for themselves.
Nor is this really a fight about locally raised tax dollars. Only state tax dollars are at issue, and the state puts conditions on the granting of education funds all the time. School systems re-learn that lesson almost every year.
Fair warning: They might re-learn it even more harshly if the amendment is blocked and a much-discussed Plan B arises. There are a few versions of it, but this much is clear: The mother of all strings would be attached to the funds of school systems hesitant to approve charters.
The second objection is that the amendment is overly broad and could lead to unintended consequences. Normally, I’m sympathetic to this argument. Even if one trusts these lawmakers not to abuse a new power, there’s no guarantee their successors will be so restrained.
But this time is different, because unintended consequences already lie in wait.
This entire debate is taking place only because, last spring, the Georgia Supreme Court struck down a law allowing the state to approve charter schools. That ruling was so broad, future litigants could drive a fleet of yellow school buses through it.
Defenders of the ruling will say it focused only on the authority to create “special schools.” But the language is much broader than that.
The state Constitution, Chief Justice Carol Hunstein wrote, “grant[s] local boards of education the exclusive right to establish and maintain, i.e., the exclusive control over, general K-12 public education” (italics added).
“The constitutional history of Georgia,” Hunstein added, “could not be more clear that, as to general K-12 public education, local boards of education have the exclusive authority to fulfill one of the ‘primary obligation[s] of the State of Georgia,’ namely, ‘[t]he provision of an adequate public education for the citizens.’ ”
That word “exclusive” appears elsewhere in the ruling. Never mind that it doesn’t appear in the sections of the Constitution the ruling cited.
If this court could insert “exclusive” where it did not exist, what’s to stop a future court from applying “exclusive authority” beyond the creation of schools?
If the amendment is not as narrow as possible, the justices who crafted that overly broad ruling last spring bear part of the blame. (And — jargon alert — because the actual text of the law that the amendment would enable is still being drafted, holdout lawmakers have a chance to satisfy themselves the law would be sufficiently narrow before casting a last vote.)
If we are to live under a rule with uncertain effects, better that the responsibility for it — and for fixing it — lie with legislators elected more locally and more often, and with more public scrutiny, than the court’s justices.
And better that those legislators give their constituents a chance to empower themselves when it comes to public education.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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144 comments Add your comment
ByteMe
February 16th, 2012
6:25 am
But this time is different
Any time an “expert” tells me that, I figure they’re about to be proven wrong.
And better that those legislators give their constituents a chance to empower themselves when it comes to public education.
This doesn’t empower constituents. It empowers the legislators and the governor to over-step their traditional role of supporting schools by trying to create new ones. Let’s leave these decisions to the local school board — populated by people in the community where the school is going to be located — where parents can be empowered by showing up and letting their voices be heard.
DeborahinAthens
February 16th, 2012
6:35 am
It seems to me that a lot of legislation cobbled together by the people under the Dome gets slaughtered in court. Maye if we elected intelligent representatives who knew how to write bills, we would save an enormous amount of time and wasted money. For an example…check out my “representative” , McKillip. He can’t even write a note, much less a piece of legislation. One of his bills, I believe (concerning bicycle riders) was sent back to be re-written before they would bring it to public light it was so bad. We pay these people to do a job, yet we elect the same bozos over and over. Go figure.
GodHatesTrash, Superstar
February 16th, 2012
6:48 am
Companies and other entities that want to run “public” schools can spend some lobbying $$, hire some prostitutes and lap dancers, and go to work under the Dome making education better in Georgia.
More under-the-table $$ and campaign contributions to the legislators too! A giant WIN-WIN!
Mr_B
February 16th, 2012
7:06 am
I notice that Maureen has some information on the relative performance of traditional vs charter schools next door. Charters are not a magic bullet that somehow are going to make “all children above average.” They are a great way to slip the profit motive into the educational system under the guise of “reform.” Run , do not walk, to the nearest exit.
JF McNamara
February 16th, 2012
7:14 am
So Maureen has an article posted right now over on “Get Schooled” that Charter schools in Georgia actually do worse than public schools. It backs up other articles I’ve read in other States that they just aren’t any better. Is there better data than what Maureen has provided?
If the results aren’t a whole lot better, what is driving so much focus on this? Ammendment or no ammendment, Shouldn’t we be focused on real ways to help our schools?
ragnar danneskjold
February 16th, 2012
7:28 am
I think I would prefer to see an amendment removing any reference to schooling in the Constitution. Excise, don’t add.
ByteMe
February 16th, 2012
7:29 am
If the results aren’t a whole lot better, what is driving so much focus on this?
What usually drives legislators to do stupid things? Sex and money. I’m guessing this time it’s money, but I could be wrong.
Mr_B
February 16th, 2012
7:59 am
Great summation of our problem with education:
http://www.zazzle.com/those_who_can_teach_those_who_cannot_pass_laws_button-145389527303865783
No Artificial Flavors
February 16th, 2012
8:25 am
“…unintended consequences already lie in wait.”. Kyle, what exactly are these unintended consequences?
Whatever
February 16th, 2012
8:26 am
As a conservative I’m ashamed. We want the Fed out of our State business but we’ll go push around the locals. I have local control now. We can vote out who we don’t like. I can’t vote out an ‘appointed commission’.
If it’s truly just state dollars I don’t think we’d be seeing this big a push. This is really about local money and who controls it.
Aquagirl
February 16th, 2012
8:29 am
So Maureen has an article posted right now over on “Get Schooled” that Charter schools in Georgia actually do worse than public schools.
Hahahahaha! Unfortunate timing for Kyle. Arguing that MY tax dollars should be spent in Podunk County (which already has schools, paid for by the local populace) so they can establish an even worse school because….I really don’t know where this is going, Except off a cliff.
You want a PRIVATE school, pay for it, tightwads. I admire the creative attempts to steal other people’s money but fortunately our court system has dealt with your attempted thievery. You may pick our pockets one day—-leeches often find a way, that’s their sole purpose in life—but not today, freeloaders.
Do what??????
February 16th, 2012
9:02 am
“Any time an “expert” tells me that, I figure they’re about to be proven wrong.”
Only if they a Republican, right?
Do what??????
February 16th, 2012
9:03 am
“Arguing that MY tax dollars should be spent in Podunk County (which already has schools, paid for by the local populace) so they can establish an even worse school because”
Guess you haven’t been to a public school in a while. You should check out all the cheating schools in Atlanta.
Road Scholar
February 16th, 2012
9:04 am
Kyle: Up early this morning! Getting much sleep? Just kidding. Hope all are doing well as the baby changes your lives! Congrats again!
I still do not see the benefit of charter schhools. It appears who the principal is…and his/her staff is more important than being a charter.
Do what??????
February 16th, 2012
9:05 am
“Charter schools in Georgia actually do worse than public schools.”
I have 15 AJC articles to counter that. One starting with the Atlanta cheating scandal.
Do what??????
February 16th, 2012
9:05 am
Road Scholar
Benefit? Well, just look at the horrible shape our public schools are in and do the math.
Cutty
February 16th, 2012
9:06 am
Republicans- For small government until they’re against it. And who cares if the state diverts already dwindling funds from public schools so that Becky can go to a Charter/Private/Catholic school away from ‘those people’. Then Kyle can write another article about why public schools consistently fail.
Kyle Wingfield
February 16th, 2012
9:16 am
JF: I haven’t had a chance to look through the entire report yet, but I will make a few points about it:
First, in the brief look I got at a couple of slides from it, the trend regarding AYP has been for all charter schools and all traditional public schools to take turns being a couple of percentage points ahead of the other one and following the same general tend line. So it’s not as if this year’s report signals some kind of new or continued divergence.
Second, comparing “all” charter schools to “all” traditional public schools is a pretty meaningless exercise. For starters, Georgia’s charter schools are not proportionally distributed across the state; they are concentrated in metro Atlanta. If we are going to compare them to entire systems, we ought to compare them to the systems nearby and to the systems with similar demographics (individual charter schools, as opposed to charter systems like Decatur’s or Marietta’s, tend to have a disproportionate number of minorities and kids from low-income families)
And that’s in large part because charter schools are chiefly a tool for expanding options for kids zoned for low-performing schools and without the means to go elsewhere. What I want to know is, how are those kids doing at that charter school compared to how they were doing at their old school? Or, at the very least, how does a particular charter school perform compared to the school zones from which it draws students? And do certain charter operators fare better than others? (Remember, one of the attractions of charters is that they can be overhauled or even shut down more easily than a traditional public school.)
The “all” data can obscure things both good and bad about charters and aren’t terribly useful if you really want to know whether charters are doing the job of improving outcomes for the kids they serve.
Kyle Wingfield
February 16th, 2012
9:17 am
Whatever: You’re still the same non-conservative purporting to represent an “ashamed conservative” that you were the other day. If you can’t have the intellectual honesty to make your case without resorting to deceit, you must not have much of a case to make.
Kyle Wingfield
February 16th, 2012
9:19 am
Aquagirl: Your state tax dollars are already going to “Podunk County” — and your local tax dollars won’t be going elsewhere. So that’s a poor argument.
No Artificial Flavors
February 16th, 2012
9:20 am
As the husband of a public school teacher in a very good school in an ok school district i can tell you that charter schools is not a blanket solution. You run into the laws of diminishing returns. They work in some places but not everywhere as funds are siphoned off from other schools. See Caliafornia for many examples of this.
So what isothermal solution to cost-effe ctive education? Much less bureaucracy from both the state and federal education departments, allowing teachers to simply teach subject matter based on locally established criteria, allowing disruptive students to be kicked out of class or school and getting rid of “inclusion” teachers for so-called special education students (most are simply bad kids with poor attitudes, not handicapped in any way, see EBD). Do most people realize that many classrooms now employ 2 full-time teachers so that ” no child is left behind”?!? This immensely drives up the cost of education. Most teachers actually want poor teachers to be fired more easily. We don’t need a battery of performance standards. It’s pretty easy for the principal to tell who cuts it and who doesn’t.
No Artificial Flavors
February 16th, 2012
9:22 am
* is the solution. Stupid. IPad
Mary Elizabeth
February 16th, 2012
9:35 am
The following is an excerpt lifted from my 9:06 am post, today, on Maureen Downey’s blog entitled, “Obama proposes 5 billion . . . .”, regarding the charter school movement momentum in Georgia:
“Charter schools could, if not handled wisely, do more harm in the long run than benefit, especially if they are seen to be ‘the answer’ to education. If they end up, even inadvertently, dismantling traditional public education, they are not helpful. I think it quite ironic that just when technological advancement has aided us to the point whereby traditional public schools can place student data, of many years standing, on computers for quick analysis by public school teachers, and just when we are arriving at the point whereby we know the value of training teachers to teach to individual needs of students, that our traditional public schools are being threatened by those with a heavy-handed competition agenda which could break up school systems into isolated charter schools. Many isolated charter schools will not have cohesion with one another in fostering continuity of student growth over many years. Ours is a mobile society. We need that cohesion and continuity among traditional public schools and school systems in Georgia. We should use Race to the Top to better train teachers in how to individualize instruction, and how to use test data to teach creatively and precisely, in a relaxed, collaborative, non-threatening school environment. Thereby, is the combination of the best of the elements of Finland’s educational model and our own Race to the Top model that, combined, can help to create educational excellence for America, into our future. We must not change hastily. We must envision what we must be about in public educational delivery, long-ranged.”
Bill Withers
February 16th, 2012
9:36 am
State-Approved Charter Schools should concern every tax paying citizen of Georgia. Not only did the former State Charter Commission approve schools that resided in local districts, the state then sent them their state money, and “an amount equal to what the local school district would have collected in local funds…” this figure was then subtracted from state funding to local districts’ state allotment. Follow the smoke and mirrors as the state then had the audacity to say these are “state” funds, not “local” funds. Tell that to your 180 districts that accept ALL students, can’t make payroll, have furloughed teachers and have students going to school fewer days every year. Parental choice? of course. At the expense of the 92% of Georgia’s children who attend a public school? indefensible.
Tom da bomb
February 16th, 2012
9:39 am
The report from the DOE comparing the performance of charter schools to non-charter schools is in line with similar analyses done on the national level by Stanford University and the U.S. Department of Education during the George W. Bush administration. I believe George W. Bush was a Republican. These studies, which encompassed all the other states in addition to Georgia, concluded that charter school students don’t perform much worse or much better than students from traditional public schools. I think it’s valid to ask why there is such a great urgency to override the wishes of locally elected school boards and take the local tax funds they use for public education to divert the dollars to schools that do not perform any better, and in some cases perform worse, than public schools.
I have heard my conservative friends repeat it like a mantra: Local control is best. Government works best when it is closest to the people it serves. Why has that suddenly become invalid because some charter school advocates want to forcibly extract money from locally elected school boards?
LakeClaireresident
February 16th, 2012
9:40 am
Your statement that the Supreme Court opinion misinterprets the State Constitution due to the absence of an express statement therein that the grant of authority to local school is “exclusive” demonstrates your ignorance of basic rules of constitutional interpretation, specifically, expressio unius est exclusio alterius (the expression of one thing is the exclusion of another). For example: the Constitution gives the governor the authority to sign bills enacted by the legislature into law: it does not have to say that the governor has the exclusive authority to do so, nor does it have to say that the state insurance commissioner does not have that authority. By granting the governor that authority the Constitution grants the governor that authority exclusively. By granting local school boards the authority over general K-12 schools (with the sole exception being the “special” schools language at issue in the Supreme Court opinion), basic constitutional rules of interpretation mandated that this grant of authority be deemed exclusive.
Aquagirl
February 16th, 2012
9:41 am
Aquagirl: Your state tax dollars are already going to “Podunk County” — and your local tax dollars won’t be going elsewhere.
Kyle, of course my money is already going there, are you seriously thinking the corporate interests running these schools won’t take MORE state money than is already apportioned? That I won’t be paying MORE money, not to Podunk County, but ultimately to the oinkers who run these private schools? The state should tax me, hand that money to an appointed, unelected board, which will then give it to a private contractor who doesn’t have to meet public standards? Thanks, but I’ll pass on your version of conservatism.
You want to give your money to SlushySkools, Inc…..it’s a free country. One that was founded partly because people dislike taxation without representation. Now we have fake conservatives trying to re-institute that practice and Justice Hunstein kicked them square in the teeth. No wonder they’re squalling. Pigs yanked from their trough do that, y’know.
ernest t bass
February 16th, 2012
9:44 am
Republicans again supporting a system that has been shown to not perform as well as traditional schools.
I guess the real question is this.
Why do Republicans want to see our children fail?
Do what??????
February 16th, 2012
9:44 am
Aquagirl
So what’s the solution?
Do what??????
February 16th, 2012
9:44 am
“Why do Republicans want to see our children fail?”
Just to see them grow up to be as unintelligent as you.
Bill Withers
February 16th, 2012
9:47 am
Get ready for corporate virtual charter schools to explode in Georgia as your child’s third grade class role rises to 34 students and the school year is cut to 170 days or less. Wasn’t it the same policy makers who just a few years ago were arguing our kids needed more school, not less? Speaking of intellectual honesty, how about the track record of students in virtual schools? Students who struggle in traditional schools disappear in virtual environments. It is an effective tool for a very small percentage of kids.
ernest t bass
February 16th, 2012
9:49 am
Just to see them grow up to be as unintelligent as you.
But that doesnt make sense.
I have an IQ of around 140.
Of course I went to a “traditional” school so I had a leg up on these Charter School kids.
ernest t bass
February 16th, 2012
9:51 am
Either way the educational system in Georgia stinks.
Thank god for Alabama and Mississippi huh.
No wonder this state usually goes Republican.
Do what??????
February 16th, 2012
9:53 am
“But that doesnt make sense.
Precisely. You get a cookie, simpleton.
“I have an IQ of around 140.”
HAHAHAHAAH!!!!
Do what??????
February 16th, 2012
9:54 am
“Either way the educational system in Georgia stinks.”
Delta is ready when you are.
Bill Withers
February 16th, 2012
9:55 am
Start putting together a list of representatives who vote for this legislation and send it back to the local elected school boards who hand out the pink slips to the local educators they can’t pay any longer. More importantly, send another copy to the parents whose kids are going to school 170 days and have 34 peers in their classrooms. Now there’s some local control we can all understand.
JF McNamara
February 16th, 2012
9:58 am
Thanks for the response Kyle.
The small quantity, location and number of charter schools should actually help them outperform all schools. Right now, the schools service only parents who generally care or are involved in their lives. Some even require volunteering by parents. They are set up to outperform and aren’t.
Also, the only people who whose kids I know who have kids that go (or went) to Charters are upper middle class and white. Being African American, and having an African American community of interest, I would think it would be the other way around. I would honestly like to know what the demographics really are.
We need a really sound analysis on whether charters work or not and if its being manipulated away from helping those who really need it.
Churchill's MOM.....Ron Paul for President
February 16th, 2012
10:06 am
Wingboy congratulations on the new kid. Like you my Husband & I have 2 children. We do for them what our parents did for us, send them to private school. That cost us about $20,000 per year + the property tax on our house,the property tax on my Husband’s office, state income taxes, federal taxes and those taxes buried in the cost of products we buy.
If you can’t afford to educate your children you should not have them.
Up here in Athens is just another way to get away from “those people”
Kyle Wingfield
February 16th, 2012
10:09 am
JF: Your experience may be that way, but the stats tell a different story. (I’m down at the Capitol today and will give y’all some hard data as soon as I can get it and post it.)
The parental involvement part you mentioned is most likely true, but again — the proper comparison is to the schools nearby. Especially since the difference between “all” charters and “all” traditional public schools over the years has not really been instructive (see my earlier comment about the trend lines).
DawgDad
February 16th, 2012
10:12 am
Enter your comments here
DawgDad
February 16th, 2012
10:17 am
State-sponsored charter schools, existing outside of the chartering and control of local school boards, are an absolutely HORRENDOUS idea. I’m no fan of public schools, but when the public school system has problems you don’t fix them by creating bigger problems. State-sponsored (funded) charter schools will enable the State (in a statist sense) to, at SOME level, pick winners and losers, because the public benefit will HAVE to be rationed.
Keep public public and private private, let the free market decide outcomes (not the State), and keep government as mean and lean and local as possible. Those are BEDROCK principles for sustaining order in society while maximizing liberty, freedom, and opportunity.
C Jae of EAV
February 16th, 2012
10:24 am
The problem with the drafting of public education policy in GA is that its often time purposefully written with abigutity to allow for “local interpetation and flexibility in implementation” or so was told to me by members of the legislature when I had opportunity to query a few about why some of these bills are not written in a more perscriptive manner. Its all a poltical shell game. The legislature writes soft laws open to all kinds of interpetation and local BOE’s across the state side step them routinely with clever translations of policy/procedure to implement them in ways that essentially nullify the intended effect.
One thing I would add to the ongoing debate is the simple fact that charter schools are PUBLIC schools !!! The kids that attend them should benefit from the tax dollars raised at the State & Local level that were intended to fund PUBLIC schools. I think it matters little who is running the school, provided the institution in question has been vetted and authorized by a body of governance within the state empowered to do so. I believe this issue is clouded by excess emotion, half-truths and projections of what people fear happening absent the reality of what is happening in the hereandnow. I think’s Kyle’s precursor observations of the State BOE report announced today are more than fair considerations to take into account as we absorb this data. I wonder to myself the timing of the report in question given the legislative battle we’re still engrossed in. I’m sure without even reading the report with a critical eye many will discount its findings on both sides of this debate, which is part of the problem. Too many are trying to draw broad conclusions from reports such as these with little thoughtful examination of the story behind the raw numbers.
carlosgvv
February 16th, 2012
10:31 am
When I was in school, in the 40’s and 50’s, there were no charter schools. Grading was done on an A thru F basis. There were no social promotions. There were no guns or drugs in schools and no violence was tolerated. So I wonder, I just can’t help but wonder, what’s gone wrong?
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2012
10:36 am
It appears who the principal is…and his/her staff is more important than being a charter
Amen to that. I don’t live in Atlanta, so what they do there is their business but in rural areas, charter schools are a solution looking for a problem. A large number of counties in Georgia only have one high school and many only have one middle school. If you want your kid to go to school somewhere else, it’s up to you to get them there.That’s fine if that’s what you want but don’t ask the rest of us to pay for it. We already pay for a school (the local high school looks more like a junior college, by the way, but that’s another story for another day).
Georgia, The " New Mississippi "
February 16th, 2012
10:38 am
Southern white guys never voluntarily do what they know is right—— it’s an inbred lack of basic human morals. Johnny Reb Logic rules the day in our GOP controlled state. We all will continue to pay a heavy, heavy price.
Whatever
February 16th, 2012
10:43 am
I am a real conservative. A real conservative who tells the Feds to give back state’s rights. A real conservative who tells the states to stay out of our local business.
If locals want charters then they will vote in board members who approve them.
Is that true enough for you?
Voice of Reason
February 16th, 2012
10:50 am
Charter schools do not represent TRUE local control. Giving control of MY tax dollars to parents and board members of a charter school gives me NO local control whatsover. Please quit misrepresenting the charter school option as providing true local control.
If I am a taxpayer without a child in school, I have absolutely ZERO control of how *MY* tax dollars are spent at a charter school. I also have ZERO control or say in the operations of the school.
At least with a locally elected board of education, I *DO* have a legitimate voice in the distribution of MY tax dollars. I can work on voting them out.
Charter schools are *NOT* the solution. I will be voting *NO* on this if it comes before the voters and I am a lifelong republican voter. I will NOT abdicate what little control I have of my tax dollars to the state and or parents who think they should be able to take my tax money and do with it as they see fit.
jd
February 16th, 2012
10:51 am
The DOE report does raise the question — What would Zero-based budgeting do? IF the legislature really intends (and I believe they just want ZBB to spend money elsewhere) to use objective criteria to determine whether a program should continue — then the DOE report suggests the Charter School experiment should cease to receive state funding. Period. Time to try something else.
Whatever
February 16th, 2012
10:51 am
Kyle,
Voice has it right. You are being deceitful. True local control is done through the election process not through some appointed board of parents that I cannot vote for or against.
What a joke.
St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia
February 16th, 2012
10:52 am
Post of the Year –
“of course my money is already going there, are you seriously thinking the corporate interests running these schools won’t take MORE state money than is already apportioned? That I won’t be paying MORE money, not to Podunk County, but ultimately to the oinkers who run these private schools? The state should tax me, hand that money to an appointed, unelected board, which will then give it to a private contractor who doesn’t have to meet public standards? Thanks, but I’ll pass on your version of conservatism.
You want to give your money to SlushySkools, Inc…..it’s a free country. One that was founded partly because people dislike taxation without representation. Now we have fake conservatives trying to re-institute that practice and Justice Hunstein kicked them square in the teeth. No wonder they’re squalling. Pigs yanked from their trough do that, y’know.”
and she’a LOT nicer than me.
Its nothing less than dismantling public education, their goal all along
If that bunch o inbred deliverance-banjo-pickers pass this, I am moving my kids to Amelia Island the very next day.
Bill Withers
February 16th, 2012
10:56 am
Kyle, while you are seeking “hard data”, don’t forget the disappointing results in Wisconsin, Ohio, DC, Florida… Thanks for at least looking. That’s rather unusual these days.
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2012
10:56 am
Southern white guys never voluntarily do what they know is right—— it’s an inbred lack of basic human morals.
Kinda like your bigotry?
JB
February 16th, 2012
10:57 am
Isn’t funny Republicans are excitedly implementing President Obama’s education policies? I thought they loathe everything he does.
Political Mongrel
February 16th, 2012
10:58 am
I see no reason for the state to override a local board’s decisions regarding charter schools. It’s just another case of centralized authority being able to financially obligate a local government and then walk away. And frankly, the mania over charter schools is finally beginning to unravel as the truth comes out. Some charters do well, but quite a number don’t, just like public schools. There’s no guarantee that a charter will function better than a well-run local school.
markie mark
February 16th, 2012
11:09 am
carlosgvv, you are not going to like this, but my answer is the 60’s. The change in thought process in this country became more liberal, there was less respect for tradition or traditional authority. I went thru grammer school in the 60’s and high school in the 70’s. I caught the last wave of the old traditional teachers and the first wave of the new “touchy-feely” teachers who were raised as young adults in the 60’s.
I think some legitimate values came out of the 60’s revolution…but it also brought a lot of baggage and thought processes that are now ingrained in education that were not there before….I will now stand back and wait for your, and the other liberals on here, attacks…..
RaceToTheBottom
February 16th, 2012
11:10 am
Kyle says “But the power at the heart of this matter is not the power to approve a charter school, but the power to run that school. This amendment would let the state grant that more important power to the parents who would send their children to a proposed charter. ”
Let’s see. Imagine a charter school with 500 students. Say 200 or so parents desire or demand the “power to run that school” (quoting Kyle) since they have been given the right to do so. Ever hear of helicopter parents (aka hovering parents)? Imagine the carnage when all helicopters are hovering at once and continually. Not a great idea Kyle.
getalife
February 16th, 2012
11:11 am
Great economic news today with GM reporting record profits.
Four more years.
Liberals eat their children
February 16th, 2012
11:15 am
Too many laws, too many democrats, too many republicans, too many liberals, too many child molelestering teachers, too many crazy union teachers that can’t be fired, too much diversity crap taught instead of true history, too many gay right oraganizations, too much power given away to the corrupt school systems, not enough parent student responsibilities, too many thugs in schools, too many lazy stupid political correct teachers in public schools. And on on…………..Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!
Liberals eat their children
February 16th, 2012
11:16 am
getalife, Obama is a liar and you are foolish to believe this muslim communist pig for a president.
Liberals eat their children
February 16th, 2012
11:18 am
Remove one of the “a”s please. Thanks
DannyX
February 16th, 2012
11:19 am
The Charter amendment may indeed end up passing this session, I’m sure there is an army of lobbyists making sure it does. I think it will have a hard time getting over the final hurdle, I believe the public will vote it down.
markie mark
February 16th, 2012
11:20 am
St Simons, I dont think most know here that Amelia is the first habitable island when you enter Florida….
carlosgvv
February 16th, 2012
11:22 am
markie mark – 11:09
Actually, I agree with you. The real question is what caused the 60’s revolution and what made it go so wrong? All in all, it looks like more harm than good has been done. And, just for your information, there are many different shades of liberalism. I guess you could call me a rather strict liberal. Also, it’s clear that Capitalism has mutated into Predatory Capitalism in our Country and it will never change. We are going to have to elect politicians other that Republicans and Democrats or else as things stand now they will stand for the foreseeable future.
No Artificial Flavors
February 16th, 2012
11:23 am
As all of these charter schools are created where do you the teachers are going to come from?
JF McNamara
February 16th, 2012
11:31 am
Kyle,
I looked the Demographics up myself, and they are pretty close to public schools. Based on those eligible for free lunch, those in Charter schools are MORE affluent that average.
Charter Schools – 38.5% White, 42.1% Black
Public Schools – 44.0% White, 37.0% Black
Charter schools: 6.7% Reduced Lunch, 42.8% Free Lunch, 50.5% N/A
Public Schools: 6.7% Reduced Lunch, 50.7% Free Lunch, 42.6% N/A
For anyone who wants to read the full reports.
http://www.doe.k12.ga.us/External-Affairs-and-Policy/Charter-Schools/Pages/Annual-Reports.aspx
killerj
February 16th, 2012
11:36 am
NO
Kyle Wingfield
February 16th, 2012
11:37 am
After reviewing the charter schools report, I found some interesting facts.
First, as I wrote in an earlier comment, most charter schools are clustered in metro Atlanta. In fact, the vast majority of them (83 percent) are in just five districts: Fulton, Cobb, DeKalb, Hall and Atlanta. So let’s look at charters vs others in those districts.
– Fulton: 79 percent of charters met AYP, 73 percent of non-charters did;
– Cobb: 83 percent vs 81 percent;
– DeKalb: 55 percent vs 46 percent;
– Hall: 71 percent vs 92 percent;
– APS: 69 percent vs 53 percent.
So, the only district of these five where charters underperform is Hall. In my view, these are the more pertinent comparisons.
MiltonMan
February 16th, 2012
11:38 am
How long has the worthless DOE been around???
markie mark
February 16th, 2012
11:41 am
Carlos, agreed…..the problem to me is that the hard core liberals that are really off the edge are now teaching our teachers…..as an example, the newest Journalism professor at UGA is…our old friend Cynthia McKinney. A liberal’s liberal if there ever was one. Angela Davis, a tenured professor at Cal-Davis; a radical bomber, to say the least….two examples that make me want to cringe….
Old timer
February 16th, 2012
11:47 am
Some of the stuff we want out of charter schools…..can be done with public school choice. Allowing parents to choose the best school would improve all schools.
@@
February 16th, 2012
11:54 am
Far be in from me to deny minority children a choice. Here in Clayton County we have three charter schools…”exclusively” low-income minority children.
I’m always amazed by liberals who don’t support choice for children, be they born or yet to be born.
schnirt
JF McNamara
February 16th, 2012
11:56 am
@Kyle,
At least that makes directions sense. Ponder this though. If you take all of the high performing students with parents who care and put them in a Charter, that degrades the performance of the other schools in the area.
That’s the reason why a comparison to all schools is probably more accurate. You are taking the smartest and most affluent in one area and putting them in one school. It should be (much) better than the state average.
Alpharetta mom
February 16th, 2012
11:59 am
Our local legislators DO NOT want to hear about any charter school issues that would put them in a bad light – several of us have requested meetings and shared FACTS about the conflict of interest transactions, lies and hidden agenda of Fulton Science Academy. Our local legislators would rather throw the school board under the bus for taking action than criticize FSA. This is why nothing about this amendment and the legislators HIDDEN agenda behind pushing it so hard can be trusted. Where do you think the money behind the Georgia Charter School Assoc. comes from ? Why is Chip
Rogers the poster boy for school choice ? Does it have any connection with his position as a board member of ALEC? Who is behind that organization? The taxpayers are entitled to know. We are not as stupid as these folks must think. Stop picking on the GA PTA and come clean!
@@
February 16th, 2012
11:59 am
Well, since Kyle has offered comparisons, I’ll add Clayton County’s:
In Clayton, all four of the district’s charter schools (3 charters 1 magnet) (100%) made AYP compared to 74% of traditional schools.
“The choice” is clear.
aqua girl is right - Kyle respond
February 16th, 2012
11:59 am
Kyle,
I am waiting for your response to Aquagirl’s response. First, the funding for these charter schools – and the whole point of this amendment is to get to the local funding – is to take the local equivalent of cost per child and add a formula for state funding of charters that equals QBE + local equivalent funds. I’ve heard several times that it won’t use local funds because it will be state dollars in a formula that uses a local equivalent. So as the State continues to tell school system’s the money isn’t there to add back to the school system’s, they want to create a new funding mechanism specifically for charters that increases the State’s funding per student (QBE + local equivalent). The funding cuts are not hidden. The QBE formula for the State is here: http://app3.doe.k12.ga.us/ows-bin/owa/qbe_reports.public_menu?p_fy=2000
Click on 2012, then select State Allotment Sheet. This pulls up the formula sheet. You will see the line “Amended Formula Adjustment” where the legislature says we are not going to fund the law. The adjustment is $1,144,231,892 (18.51% of the formula). So Kyle is going to say it doesn’t take local dollars while the state creates a new formula that takes a local equivalent to fund schools they create, but say that there are no funds available to start taking away the amended formula adjustment and keep underfunding education by 18%. New money right?
Those that do not think this isn’t taxation without representation are naive. New money.
No Artificial Flavors
February 16th, 2012
12:03 pm
Creating charter schools, vouchers, etc, is like buying a new car because your old one has two flat tires. just fix the problems with educational mandates and curriculum before creating a new system to park along side the existing system.
JF McNamara
February 16th, 2012
12:07 pm
@@,
Actually, “the choice” is not clear.
1. You have a small sample size. 4 schools is not enough to make a determination on anything.
2. You have a selection bias problem. Those who go to a magnet school are smarter (by design). If they didn’t make it, then you’ve got a big problem. Those in regular charters likely have more involved parents and are financially better off (see above data).
As you get more and more charters in Clayton, the success rate will decline because the selection bias will be diminished.
@@
February 16th, 2012
12:10 pm
After reviewing the 2011 data on Georgia’s schools, I found that most of Clayton County’s elementary schools distinguished themselves. LUV the little ones, they’re enthusiasm for learning is boundless.
When I looked at our high-schools, however, not only did they not excel, they failed to achieve the basic fundamentals under AYP.
My husband has argued that the longer children remain in government schools, the dumber they become. Well…here in Clayton County, “the evidence” proves him right.
article
February 16th, 2012
12:14 pm
Please do an article about the $1,144,231,892 “amended formula adjustment” on the legal QBE formula for funding a basic education and let us know what your expectations are for school system success with this funding cut? Then with those expectations out there, perhaps we can start making some new comparisons. It’s one thing to say this system versus another and point out some flaws of one over the other without pointing out the major flaw that is that cut – which has been an increasing number since 2003.
@@
February 16th, 2012
12:18 pm
JF:
Those in regular charters likely have more involved parents and are financially better off (see above data).
So tell me…what’s preventing parents from becoming more involved in their children’s education? What’s keeping parents from achieving financial success? I would argue that those parents of which you speak may be, not only their own worst enemy, but their child/children’s as well.
Dusty
February 16th, 2012
12:22 pm
Well, that settles it. Everybody is wrong ’cause everybody said so.
I don’t see the state paying for Charter schools which means they are NOT state schools but private. When you have Public Schools (state supported) how can you have another system of Public (state supported) but call it Charter ( still public/state funded)? A private school is a public school? Huh?
Either I’m not getting something right or it is not supposed to make sense. What’s next? Everybody does home schooling supported by state funds? Home public schools?
There goes Friday night football. Now that might be a good thing!
Do what??????
February 16th, 2012
12:24 pm
“Great economic news today with GM reporting record profits.”
So…..GM profits mean Obama gets re-elected?
Lay off the acid, getajob.
Do what??????
February 16th, 2012
12:29 pm
” I’ll add Clayton County’s:”
Clayton County was my next point in how bad public school systems are.
Junior Samples
February 16th, 2012
12:30 pm
Sounds like the key ingredient to a successfull school system is parent involvement. When I was in our public school system, my parents went to each and every PTA meeting.
From what I’m hearing the parent involvement with charter schools is high. Is this happening in our public schools? I’ll bet the public schools that are doing well have a strong PTA relationship.
The PTA a nice check and balance system. Teachers hold the parents responsible for their kids, and vice-versa. It is possible to make our public schools better.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 16th, 2012
12:31 pm
Let’s hope the state constitution can be amended to give parents the power that the education lobby refuses to give up–the power of choice.
Certainly you choice-loving libtards couldn’t object, right?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 16th, 2012
12:32 pm
GM has record profits because Obozo exempted them from paying taxes.
Pay your fair share, Democrat parasites.
Dusty
February 16th, 2012
12:36 pm
DO WHAT???I
When GM makes a profit, where does it go? Aren’t stocks in GM all owned by the government/taxpayers? Does a profit mean I’ll get a check next week?
These government owned companies are new to me. I thought the government was supposed to run the country while citizens run “business”. I guess GM is now a commune of all us “devoted” citizens.
BRW
February 16th, 2012
12:44 pm
Do What?????? = Poor excuse for a troll…..Don’t feed him and he will disappear with his nonsense…
JF McNamara
February 16th, 2012
12:47 pm
@@,
“So tell me…what’s preventing parents from becoming more involved in their children’s education? What’s keeping parents from achieving financial success?”
Nothing, but we aren’t talking about getting more parents involved. We are talking about what is driving the benefit (if any) of Charter schools. Is there real value being created or is it just selection bias? If its selection bias, then we don’t need Charter schools.
Do what??????
February 16th, 2012
12:47 pm
“When GM makes a profit, where does it go? Aren’t stocks in GM all owned by the government/taxpayers? Does a profit mean I’ll get a check next week?”
Yep.
WaitAMinute
February 16th, 2012
12:47 pm
If you have ever worked for a corporation, then you know they are the last ones you want running a school.
Do what??????
February 16th, 2012
12:48 pm
“Poor excuse for a troll”
Hi Midori/AmVet/Kamchack!
Do what??????
February 16th, 2012
12:48 pm
“you know they are the last ones you want running a school.”
As opposed to a government school system that cheats kids?
Do what??????
February 16th, 2012
12:49 pm
When’s Warren Buffet gonna share his billions with the poor democrats?
Jefferson
February 16th, 2012
12:50 pm
The court is right. Stop the work around.
Dusty
February 16th, 2012
1:03 pm
Well, looks like it is time for a GOOD story. Did you see where a father got three of his children out of a burning apartment? Then he crawled back through fire and smoke and rescued the last two?
Now that’s a man who loves his children. He is recovering from burns and smoke inhalation and the children are OK. .
I like a happy ending .
@@
February 16th, 2012
1:03 pm
Say What????:
Most of Clayton County’s educational problems stemmed from a dysfunctional BoE elected by a dysfunctional electorate. The hole was so deep that I’m not sure we’ll ever see daylight again.
Hopefully, for the kids’ sake, I’ll be proven wrong.
JF:
Is there real value being created or is it just selection bias?
Real value is something only the parents can determine, now isn’t it?
You do realize that Clayton County’s poverty rate far exceeds that of any other metro-area county, do you not? I’m one of those who believes that, even among the impoverished, will precedes the way. Without it, you’ll reach a dead-end road.
Do what??????
February 16th, 2012
1:07 pm
@@
It’s “Do what.” “Say what” is a left winger.
Clayton Co was one of the most corrupt school districts in the country and almost cost the kids their accreditation.
I was called a racist on Bookman’s blog for point out the race of the corrupt school board yet NO ONE would debate what actually happened.
@@
February 16th, 2012
1:13 pm
Do what????:
It’s “Do what.” “Say what” is a left winger.
So sorry! I’ll likely make the same mistake again.
Clayton County DID lose their accreditation.
DannyX
February 16th, 2012
1:21 pm
Well, looks like it is time for a GOOD story. Did you see where Obama got three hundred million people out of a burning economy?
Now that’s a man who loves his country. He is recovering from the burns and scorn of Republicans and the people are OK.
I like a happy ending .
hatorade drinkers
February 16th, 2012
1:40 pm
GM made a record profit in 2011. Must have slipped your radar. some people cannot stand a success story.
carlosgvv
February 16th, 2012
1:42 pm
markie mark – 11:41
It seems to me that Angelia Davis and Cynthia McKinney are not liberals. They are anarchists and do not belong in any classroom in America. Unfortunately, those in power are too filled with political correctness to boot them out.
Inside Out
February 16th, 2012
1:53 pm
“the problem to me is that the hard core liberals that are really off the edge are now teaching our teachers….”
Seems to me like the same thing can be said on the opposite end of the spectrum about “Professor Newt”….
Dusty
February 16th, 2012
1:56 pm
hmmmm I believe that markie mark meant to say that Cynthia TUCKER is teaching journalism at UGA. Not Cynthia Mckinney. A bit of difference there!
Dusty
February 16th, 2012
2:03 pm
Inside Out, 1:53
“Professor Newt”, as you called Gingrich, has a PhD in history and that is what he taught. He is also an experienced legislator. His credentials as a professor are quite in order.
@@
February 16th, 2012
2:03 pm
Cynthia TUCKER is teaching journalism at UGA. Not Cynthia Mckinney. A bit of difference there!
Has McKinney ever held a real job outside the field of exploitation?
markie mark
February 16th, 2012
2:03 pm
carlosgvv, you may be right, and I would tend to buy those statements…..but the number of people on ajc blogs that passionately defended CT shows how much thought processes have changed. Both sides are so concerned with being “right” that they seem less concerned with our children than they are with “winning” the argument. I could care less how we educate our children as long as it is effective. Can we step back and say APS tried “xyz” for 30 years and it didnt work? Give another option 5 years and see if it changes. Go find ACTUAL TEACHERS that retired back in the day and ask them what changed from their early days to when they retired…..
I think we will find its a combination of methods, ability to RULE the classroom and stop interruptions, and parents being genuinely concerned about their kids behavior. I also think that not having stay at home mothers, who had the time to be involved in their kids day to day education, is also having a large effect on todays schools…
markie mark
February 16th, 2012
2:04 pm
@@ – thanks for catching that….sorry for the error…..I meant Tucker….
markie mark
February 16th, 2012
2:06 pm
you too, Dusty…just saw yours…
Kyle Wingfield
February 16th, 2012
2:09 pm
JF: “Most affluent” is wrong. About half of charter school students qualify for free or reduced lunch. That’s a little lower percentage than state-wide, but it’s not a huge gap.
“Smartest” — I have no data available to me to prove or disprove that. Of course, the same is true for you…
@@
February 16th, 2012
2:11 pm
Go find ACTUAL TEACHERS that retired back in the day and ask them what changed from their early days to when they retired…..
One thing that’s definitely changed is the encouragement of competition. At some point, liberal academics decided that competition was destructive to a child’s self esteem. Regardless, most kids embrace it. It’s a natural instinct within children. We have to let them know that academics is “a field” on which they should also play to win.
Inside Out
February 16th, 2012
2:27 pm
Dusty @ 2:03
Angela Davis : Brandeis University, B.A., (1965)
University of California, San Diego, M.A.
My point was not to question his qualifications but to point out the extremeness of his positions….he is as far to the right as Prof. Davis is to the left….
Do what??????
February 16th, 2012
2:28 pm
“Clayton County DID lose their accreditation.”
Good job, Democrats.
Inside Out
February 16th, 2012
2:29 pm
Excuse me…That should be DR. Professor Davis
Do what??????
February 16th, 2012
2:29 pm
“Has McKinney ever held a real job outside the field of exploitation?”
Nope.
Inside Out
February 16th, 2012
2:33 pm
Georgia ranks 45th based on SAT scores
(source: http://gaeducation.blogspot.com/2008/08/2008-sat-results-released-georgia-ranks.html)
Good Job Republicans…
Jefferson
February 16th, 2012
2:45 pm
Charter schools are not dead, the court ruled correctly. Color between the lines.
@@
February 16th, 2012
2:47 pm
“the problem to me is that the hard core liberals that are really off the edge are now teaching our teachers….”
Seems to me like the same thing can be said on the opposite end of the spectrum about “Professor Newt”….
According to many conservatives, Newt’s too progressive to qualify as a conservative. Probably why he entered academia.
Gets confusing from where I sit in the AJC’s school of hard knocks.
Jerry Eads
February 16th, 2012
2:49 pm
Kyle, I’d be tempted to respect your positions if you’d stay even remotely true to your supposedly conservative philosophy. How on green or even scorched earth can you even pretend to support state usurping of local control, including the seizure of local funds? We know most gold dome republicans can’t even SPELL the term “conservative” much less define it and CERTAINLY much less understand and practice it, but YOU? You should have a higher calling than the blind patsy dog lapping at legislative feet. Shame on you. This isn’t “local control” by parents. We’re supposed to be living in a democracy. How about if we make at least a half-hearted attempt to practice it.
MAY
February 16th, 2012
2:56 pm
@Jerry Eads “…..and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands.” But that said, why not let democracy reign and pass HR1162 so the people of Georgia can vote on it?
fun times
February 16th, 2012
3:01 pm
I always enjoy the conversations that center around this type topic. It’s an interesting perspective that comes out of local funding for charters versus not. A formula is provided in law that says this is what it takes to provide a basic education. $1.144 billion is then cut from that formula. Then people and legislators jump in saying traditional schools are not cutting it, we will create our own and fund it with “new”, non-local money. $1.144 billion – worse if you include the cuts to categorical grants. Not hidden – on this site: http://app3.doe.k12.ga.us/ows-bin/owa/qbe_reports.public_menu?p_fy=2000
Click 2012, Then select State Allotment.
And yes – EVERY school system is like Clayton’s Board of Ed. And EVERY school system cheats (Atlanta looks to have done this so everyone has). I need to make some time to get out to the school today to let them know they are cheating. Its important that they know. Generalizing is 90% of the legislature’s problem.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 16th, 2012
3:05 pm
GM: Record profits, and didn’t pay any income tax.
So greedy.
Pay your fair share, Democrats.
Inside Out
February 16th, 2012
3:10 pm
) ExxonMobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings. [Note: Our post last April reported that ExxonMobil was owed $46 million by the IRS.]
2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.
3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.
4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.
5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.
6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.
7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.
9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.
10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.
Pay your fair share Republicans!!!
Do what??????
February 16th, 2012
3:13 pm
“Good Job Republicans…”
Yep, Nathan Deal is responsible for every kid who takes the SAT. Not that parent, the governor.
And people wonder why the general public is so stupid. People like Inside Out are the ones who dumb down the system.
Do what??????
February 16th, 2012
3:14 pm
“Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion”
Um, Jeffery Imelt is an Obama advisor.
“Pay your fair share Republicans!!!”
Um….several of those companies gave Obama a lot of money in 2008.
Try again, simpleton.
@@
February 16th, 2012
3:19 pm
fun times:
And yes – EVERY school system is like Clayton’s Board of Ed. And EVERY school system cheats (Atlanta looks to have done this so everyone has).
I can only speak to Clayton County’s dilemma as “all politics are local.” It was the AJC that informed me about the APS cheating scandal. Rumor has it the AJC is a liberal rag…fishwrapper…something to that effect.
Their editorial staff does seem to lean heavily towards the left side of the boat.
Dusty
February 16th, 2012
3:31 pm
INSIDE OUT
You really need to sharpen up on your Republican insults. Take comparing Gingrich to Angela Davis as extremes.
Dr. Angela Davis is a communist. She was once a candidate for Vice Prez of the Communist Party USA . She has also been in the Back Panther Movement. And you want to compare her to Gingrich?
Gingrich, who has been Speaker of the House in US Congress and had no affiliations with extremist groups?
I hate it when liberals go overboard. You just jumped ship without a thought.
@@
February 16th, 2012
3:35 pm
I hate it when liberals go overboard. You just jumped ship without a thought.
No doubt he/she jumped off the left side of that boat.
About that charter schools report | Kyle Wingfield
February 16th, 2012
3:37 pm
[...] as I was writing my column for Thursday’s AJC print edition, the state Department of Education released its annual [...]
@@
February 16th, 2012
3:38 pm
I hate to think where Clayton County’s schools would be had Gov. Perdue not stepped in. The lengthy recall process of BoE members was going nowhere. Definitely caused a split within our black community. Some wanted ‘em gone, others thought they were doing an excellent job.
Kyle Wingfield
February 16th, 2012
3:41 pm
Folks: Being back in the office and using a regular computer, rather than my iPad at the Capitol this morning, I’ve gone back through the charter schools report and written a new post about it (see here). There are one or two small discrepancies between it and what I wrote in a comment earlier today. Rather than trying to explain them here, I’ll just ask that anyone with questions read the new post.
Inside Out
February 16th, 2012
3:45 pm
No I did not jump ship….. My point was and still remains that Dr. Davis is an estremist on the left and Newt is an extremist on the right. Now I know that you will jump thru hoops to defend youur position that Newt is not extreme, but I will as stongly defend that he is. I have never advocated for one side or the other as I happen to be an issues voter and not a party hack like some. The initial point was about who was teaching teachers…. Next time don’t be so quick to defend your party…
Inside Out
February 16th, 2012
3:45 pm
extremist not estremist…
Dusty
February 16th, 2012
3:50 pm
@@, 3:19
I have to smile when you mention the AJC editorial staff “leaning toward the left side of the boat”.
That reminds me of the day when I was reading the new top editor’s comments that AJC was going to be a truly balanced newspaper from now on. .
Shortly after that came the announcement that Maureen Dowd would soon be commenting on the editorial pages.
Maureen Dowd???? She scrapes the “bottom of the barrel” and throws the muck at Republicans in almost every thing she writes, no matter where the truth lies.
Just keeping “balance’ at the AJC.. Oh yes…
Dusty
February 16th, 2012
3:57 pm
INSIDE OUT
You are an estremist & an extremist if you can’t tell the difference between a communist and a Republican.
‘Tis said that ignorance is bliss. Be happy!
Bernie
February 16th, 2012
3:58 pm
Speaker Ralston is another Honor Roll graduate of the Karen Handel Public Policy school of thought.
Charter schools is the path to SCHOOL VOUCHERS.
Kyle Wingfield
February 16th, 2012
4:06 pm
Dusty: Actually, I get a chuckle out of Dowd every now and then; she’s not afraid to go after the Clintons or even Obama once in a while. And she does run alongside George Will…
Inside Out
February 16th, 2012
4:08 pm
Again Dusty…Step away from the party Koolaid!!!! Political affilation is a right in this country. I happen to not agree with Dr. Davis, But I have gone to war on Two occasions for the right for everyone in this country to have express a political postion. Unlike you, I will not put condemn those that have views different than mine. Her views are radical.. Just Like the views of Rep Santorum on womens contraceptives and other health issues. But I have fought and would fight again for his right to have then. Thats what this county is about…or did Sean and Rush not tell you that???
Dusty
February 16th, 2012
4:36 pm
Kyle, 4:06
George Will is too refined to compete with Dowd. She does make a rare effort to show her one track mind as a dual lane conduit. But too many red lights of remembrance void that line of thought. .
yuzeyurbrane
February 16th, 2012
4:49 pm
Kyle, why not just say you want a voucher system and have an honest debate?
Dusty
February 16th, 2012
4:53 pm
INSIDE OUT
Thank you for your military service.
I am sad that you do not recognize the difference between communism and differences in American politics. Communism wants to overthrow our democratic ideals. Politics only wants to change party policies, not overthrow the government. Davis is a communist. Gingrich is a politician. Viva la difference!
Sean or Rush? I don’t listen to radio and haven’t seen them on TV. Must be your favorites because they are not mine.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 16th, 2012
8:06 pm
Exxon paid no income taxes? Wrong, liar.
——-
And for all you commenters outraged that Exxon isn’t paying taxes in the U.S., don’t worry, it is. Our article only focused on income taxes, but it’s worth noting that the 10-k also records $7.7 billion in other taxes in the U.S. (like sales taxes) and more than $50 billion of other taxes and duties paid (I mean recorded) overseas.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/energysource/2010/04/07/exxon-says-it-does-pay-u-s-income-taxes/
———–
And that’s the first of your bogus talking points that I checked. You’re obviously not to be trusted.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 16th, 2012
8:09 pm
Bernie Sanders got caught lying about Exxon too:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/dec/10/bernie-s/bernie-sanders-filibuster-exxon-mobil/
Question Man
February 19th, 2012
9:30 pm
If the word “exclusive” does not appear in the Georgia Constitution, to what is Justice Hunstein referring? She didn’t just pull the concept out of thin air, did she?