Indy offers a note of caution for Atlanta’s new stadium dreams
Last Super Bowl-related item (probably) … this one very much relevant to metro Atlanta and the state of Georgia. From an editorial by Bloomberg:
As you watch the Super Bowl Feb. 5, spare a thought for the taxpayers in the host city of Indianapolis. The stadium in which the game will be played has been financed largely at their expense and, like so many sports venues built with public money, the cost just keeps growing.
Lucas Oil Stadium, where the Colts play eight regular season games per year, has every amenity: a retractable roof, state-of-the-art turf, seven locker rooms, 137 luxury suites, 1,000 flat-screen televisions. And well it should: It cost $720 million to build.
Of this, the Colts paid only $100 million. To cover the rest, local officials raised taxes on hotels, restaurants and rental cars, and issued bonds that soon led to ballooning financing costs.
The editorial refers to a Bloomberg news story about the specific financing mistake Indianapolis made — one that’s not likely to be a problem here if the state and city agree, as seems increasingly likely, to build a new stadium for the Falcons. But the following problems will be germane:
With the Colts threatening to leave town in 2006, an economic-impact study done for Indianapolis suggested wondrous civic advantages would soon flow from a new stadium: Along with the expansion of an adjacent convention center, the project would create $2.25 billion in economic benefits over 10 years, 4,200 new permanent jobs and 4,900 construction jobs. And, of course, the team would stay. The stadium duly opened in 2008.
But like many studies of its kind, this one will probably turn out to be fantasy. Public funding for sports stadiums has been found, in dozens of studies over several decades, to fall short of its promised benefits and to cost taxpayers more than expected.
Robert A. Baade of the Heartland Institute, a research group in Chicago that promotes free markets, examined 48 cities over a 30-year period and found “no factual basis” for the argument that professional-sports stadiums and teams have a significant impact on economic growth. A study by Judith Grant Long, an associate professor of urban planning at Harvard University, found that public subsidies for stadiums are typically 40 percent more expensive for taxpayers than initially advertised.
I have heard no good explanation for why the alleged conservatives running our state would want — immediately after paying off the bonds that financed the Georgia Dome — to sink another $400 million or more into a stadium that will simply mean the same number of games are played at two stadiums rather than one, while precluding the use of hotel/motel taxes for transportation, education, law enforcement, water/sewer infrastructure, reducing other taxes …
– By Kyle Wingfield
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103 comments Add your comment
silver foot
February 6th, 2012
2:57 pm
kyle wingfield is ricky schroeder’s doppleganger.
Do what??????
February 6th, 2012
3:04 pm
Especially since the Falcons are horrendous.
silver spoons
February 6th, 2012
3:05 pm
foot,
It’s schroder, dumbarse!
DannyX
February 6th, 2012
3:07 pm
Ethics, stadiums, tax plans…
Kyle, is there anything you like about the Republicans running Georgia?
clyde
February 6th, 2012
3:08 pm
The alleged conservatives simply want to spend taxpayer money.They are addicted.
Do what??????
February 6th, 2012
3:09 pm
I see the Braves got new uniforms. Too bad uniforms don’t win championships or UGA’s Power Ranger uniforms would have them in the national title. Oregon as well.
Do what??????
February 6th, 2012
3:09 pm
“The alleged conservatives simply want to spend taxpayer money”
I want to spend taxpayer money on hamburgers for the poor.
katherine
February 6th, 2012
3:12 pm
cons do it in the dark!
getalife
February 6th, 2012
3:13 pm
The home team wins the Super Bowl in 13.
Who dat?
ByteMe
February 6th, 2012
3:14 pm
Lucas Oil Stadium, where the Colts play eight regular season games per year, has every amenity: a retractable roof, state-of-the-art turf, seven locker rooms, 137 luxury suites, 1,000 flat-screen televisions
Makes it sound like there are only 8 games there a year, doesn’t it?
But if you get past the distraction of the amenities, you realize that a whole lot more activities happen there each year than just the 8 regular season football games. Like 2 preseason games, the state football championship, the NCAA Final Four every 5 years (the NCAA’s home is in Indianapolis), etc.
Media bias?
And Indiana also has a very conservative legislature and governor. Now why would they act like conservatives and push public money toward private companies (like football teams), I wonder?
Bryan G.
February 6th, 2012
3:20 pm
Isn’t blank worth a billion or so? If he wants a new stadium, how about he buys it.
Do what??????
February 6th, 2012
3:23 pm
“The home team wins the Super Bowl in 13.”
gotnolifenorajob doesn’t realize that he lives in Atlanta. Not Katrina land.
Do what??????
February 6th, 2012
3:24 pm
“cons do it in the dark!”
libs do it with their cousins.
stands for decibels
February 6th, 2012
3:32 pm
Pretty good companion site for Kyle’s post, here:
http://fieldofschemes.com/
Kyle Wingfield
February 6th, 2012
3:32 pm
ByteMe: All of those things took place at the RCA Dome, too.
Linda
February 6th, 2012
3:33 pm
My shoes last longer than stadiums in Atlanta.
BubbaRoy
February 6th, 2012
3:46 pm
“Ethics, stadiums, tax plans…” Dang Kyle, I am starting to agree with you about some things!
DannyX
February 6th, 2012
3:49 pm
The NFL just signed a new tv deal worth billions but still expect taxpayers to kick in most of the cost for their new football palaces.
Lets throw in some class warfare, the new stadium with $400 million in tax payer funds is needed because the Dome doesn’t have enough one percenter suites.
Dusty
February 6th, 2012
3:49 pm
Ohhh nooooo! Those awful words about stadiums: “Cost taxpayers more than expected!”
Got it! Cost taxpayers more!! And I don’t even like football!!
Do what??????
February 6th, 2012
3:55 pm
Out of all the teams in Atlanta only one team has ever won a championship.
One.
Out of decades and decades of sports, only one team has won anything.
One.
Dusty
February 6th, 2012
3:55 pm
I know. We’ll build another useless stadium.
Then we’ll send DannyX to Washington for a bailout!
Oops, I forgot. Washington won’t be giving loser bailouts after the next election.
Nevermind, DannyX
Do what??????
February 6th, 2012
3:56 pm
Atlanta Braves = 1 WS title.
Atlanta Hawks = ZERO
Atlanta Falcons = ZERO
Atlanta Thrashers…oops
Do what??????
February 6th, 2012
3:57 pm
Tampa teams = 2 championships
New Orleans = 1
Miami = 4 championships
What other southern cities am I missing with championships?
ragnar danneskjold
February 6th, 2012
4:00 pm
At least the Georgia Dome is an easy subway ride. Try to get to Turner Field via MARTA. It’s easier to park at Underground and walk. Why shouldn’t Republicans (albeit not conservatives) waste money like democrats?
Linda
February 6th, 2012
4:04 pm
Arthur Blank stared into space with a blank stare when it was suggested that his new stadium could double as a homeless shelter.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/25/michael-bennett-homeless-ballparks_n_1232045.html
pat
February 6th, 2012
4:06 pm
It doesn’t make financial sense, of course, but I hate the dome.
Why can’t we just cut the roof off? That seems like the easiest thing to do. Convert the Dome. Cheaper and can be done in the off season.
DannyX
February 6th, 2012
4:11 pm
“Washington won’t be giving loser bailouts after the next election.”
Exactly Dusty, Obama’s economy and second term won’t need more of that loser Bush bailout money. Obama used some of loser Bush’s bailout money for the auto industry. Still, Obama has recovered most of the loser Bush bailout money. Good point Dusty.
Hillbilly D
February 6th, 2012
4:21 pm
For those who don’t remember, Tom Murphy steered the Georgia Dome through, to help out his buddy Rankin Smith. From what I’ve heard, a sizeable majority is against building a new stadium for Arthur with public funds. Arthur has friends in high places though, so before it’s all said and done, they’ll probably get him a new stadium, too. They will let the taxpayers of Atlanta and Georgia pay for it. Always thinking of the little guy ain’t they?
Dusty
February 6th, 2012
4:26 pm
DannyX 4:11
Blaming Bush for Obama’s failure is so passe’. I mean over three years passe’ !! And you are still trying to short change Bush for Obama’s deficiencies.
Won’t work, honey. We know who’s been running Washington for three years and surprise!! It is NOT Bush. It is NOT Republicans. But we will fix that shortly.
carlosgvv
February 6th, 2012
4:29 pm
And yet, their stadium is know as the Lucas Oil Stadium. Imagine the tremendous amount of advertising this company has already gotten from The Super Bowl, not the mention their brand name being constantly displayed for many years to come. So, why is the public having to pay so much? Shouldn’t this oil company pony up the difference? Are the politicians in Indiania owned by Big Business as they are in Georgia?
Hillbilly D
February 6th, 2012
4:30 pm
Out of all the teams in Atlanta only one team has ever won a championship.
You forgot the Atlanta Chiefs?
Jefferson
February 6th, 2012
4:34 pm
Alleged…we have a winner !!!!
Do what??????
February 6th, 2012
4:37 pm
“You forgot the Atlanta Chiefs?”
Don’t know who they were.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 6th, 2012
4:37 pm
Lucas Oil paid millions for the naming rights. Duh.
Do what??????
February 6th, 2012
4:39 pm
“Try to get to Turner Field via MARTA.”
I tried that one time and it sucked. I always carpool with people and end up parking in some hotel parking lot with lax security. I’ve actually paid a hotel security officer with a bag of peanuts before.
ByteMe
February 6th, 2012
4:45 pm
Kyle, and the RCA dome was built with public + private money as well (and was torn down to expand their convention center 3 years ago). What’s your point?
MarkV
February 6th, 2012
4:53 pm
Dusty,
I noticed your post repeating the Republican mantra, in your version “ Blaming Bush for Obama’s failure is so passe’. I mean over three years passe’ !”
The problem with that is that it is false. False on two counts. One, you just cannot pretend that the recession, which started during Bush’s term, had not happen. Two, the term “Obama’s failure.” Those two are interrelated. What is Obama’s failure? That he has not corrected the effects of the recession to your satisfaction? Then you are back to what happened before Obama took office. So it is hardly passe’ to talk about it.
Hillbilly D
February 6th, 2012
4:53 pm
“You forgot the Atlanta Chiefs?”
Don’t know who they were.
You must be a young’un.
Linda
February 6th, 2012
5:04 pm
Obama did not bail out nor save the auto industry. Obama added to the culture of entitlements that rewards bad behavior by bailing out 2 failing auto companies. He conducted illegal bankruptcy proceedings, threw the legitimate bondholders under the bus, forced successful dealerships to close, eliminated thousands of jobs & lined the pockets of unions who launder the taxpayer money & donate back to Democrats.
Any person with an TV set or a computer knows how liberals & unions can turn a once-thriving state & multiple communities into ghettos.
The jobs Obama saved will probably cost taxpayers about $1 M each.
DannyX
February 6th, 2012
5:07 pm
“Blaming Bush for Obama’s failure is so passe’. I mean over three years passe’ !! And you are still trying to short change Bush for Obama’s deficiencies.”
Dusty, you talk as if the bailouts came from Obama, you said, “Washington won’t be giving loser bailouts after the next election.” The bailout was signed by Bush, we don’t need an Obama bailout.
Stop talking about Bush? You bring up Bush every time you mention the bailout. I’ll stop bringing up Bush when he hits the campaign trail in support of the Republican candidate, that’s not going to happen is it?
Kamchak
February 6th, 2012
5:23 pm
Football should be played in the open air and on natural grass, but this probably isn’t only about the NFL. The U.S. is trying to win a bid to host The World Cup. In order to be an approved venue, it must be open and have a natural turf.
Jerry Eads
February 6th, 2012
5:23 pm
Glad to see you paying attention to data, Kyle! Now, might you do the same thing for such things as education vouchers and charters?
Jm
February 6th, 2012
5:25 pm
$400 million for a football stadium is a poor use of tax revenue
Btw, Kyle, republicans a re a victim of their own success
They have stopped the Obama insanity and people have already forgotten his stupidity
While obviously a risky and last ditch play, republicans should do possibly take a page from the pats
Let Obama score. Let him pass the stupid bills he wants that people hate. Then they can be repealed if a republican wins.
High risk I know. But if Obama wins we are screwed anyway.
Kamchak
February 6th, 2012
5:31 pm
But if Obama wins we are screwed anyway.
Is that sexual innuendo?
Jm
February 6th, 2012
3:35 pm
A few thoughts:
1. I find the numerous sexual innuendos at Jay Bookman’s blog, in particular in regard to Santorum, or Newt’s sexual adventures, beyond tiresome.
Glass house, meet stone.
Jm
February 6th, 2012
5:35 pm
Whatever kam
I wasn’t the one saying things like: “is that what kids call it now?”
You are beyond lame
real john
February 6th, 2012
5:45 pm
100% agree Kyle. Although I think the Falcons are going to receive so much public backlash I don’t think the new stadium will happen.
I respect Arthur Blank for his accomphlishments, but if he wants a new stadium, him and some of his buddies can pay for it. All of these NFL cities are crazy. Blank and his friends just want to show off a new toy.
I personally like the Georgia Dome. The dome was built in 1992, right.
Neyland Stadium where University of Tenn plays was built in 1921. They are doing a major expansion now. Most of the college stadiums are pretty old but have great character and are upgraded every few years. I think most of these stadiums are much more charming and just as nice.
The Georgia Dome is completely fine. Just because Blank and Kasim Reed and their friends want a Super Bowl, doesn’t mean jack s@@@ for the average fan. They just want to show off and Goddell has told them he won’t bring another Super Bowl to ATL without a new stadium.
Screw Goddell, $700 million for 2 weeks of Super Bowl parties equals big loss for ATL taxpayers. I would love a Super Bowl to come to Atlanta, but not that way
Do what??????
February 6th, 2012
5:46 pm
“Is that sexual innuendo?”
There’s your sign. Sport.
Kamchak must have been booted off Bookman’s blog. Too bad.
Twonkeria
February 6th, 2012
5:47 pm
“I have heard no good explanation for why the alleged conservatives running our state would want — immediately after paying off the bonds that financed the Georgia Dome — to sink another $400 million or more…”
Well here’s one: those were 9.5% bonds (ask me how I know), same issuance today would cost about 4%. However I agree we don’t need a second stadium. Just remove the roof from the GA Dome and just pay some homeless guys to pull a tarp over the opening when it rains.
Kamchak
February 6th, 2012
5:48 pm
Kamchak must have been booted off Bookman’s blog. Too bad.
Not yet, but I imagine that you have.
Several times.
Under many nom-de-blogs.
Linda
February 6th, 2012
5:49 pm
Jm, Rather than s@#$%ed, the liberals prefer third-term aborted.
Aquagirl
February 6th, 2012
5:50 pm
The U.S. is trying to win a bid to host The World Cup. In order to be an approved venue, it must be open and have a natural turf.
There are numerous college stadiums that meet that criteria, but the Football Deities won’t allow anyone else to scuff their sacred turf.
There’s an abundance of facilities already, everyone just wants their own perfect little paradise. Screw that. We are spending too much time and money on toys while our infrastructure crumbles. Grownups understand you take care of necessities first. Unfortunately it’s usually the boys in this country who can’t pull their heads out of the jockstraps long enough to be real men.
carlosgvv
February 6th, 2012
5:58 pm
Barry – 4:37
The millions Lucas Oil paid is only a pittance compared to the untold millions and millons of dollars worth of advertising their name on this stadium is already starting to bring in. This Big Business sweetheart deal is something I would expect the dirt dumb Georgia Republican voters to approve. However, I would have thought those Yankees would be smarter. Duh
Kamchak
February 6th, 2012
6:08 pm
There are numerous college stadiums that meet that criteria, but the Football Deities won’t allow anyone else to scuff their sacred turf.
Yeah, we saw that after season one of the WUSA. Ga. Tech was worried about how much damage 100 lb girls would damage their turf.
I wanted to ask, “Well, what about your 300 lb girls?”
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 6th, 2012
6:59 pm
carlosgvv: The millions Lucas Oil paid is only a pittance compared to the untold millions and millons of dollars worth of advertising their name on this stadium is already starting to bring in. This Big Business sweetheart deal is something I would expect the dirt dumb Georgia Republican voters to approve.
————————-
And do you think the folks in Indiana sold the naming rights for less than they could have gotten from some other eeeevil corporation? Where’s the sweetheart deal you speak of.
carolosgvv, you’ve gone over to the dark side…make that the idiot side…who think government is the source of American greatness, and that free market capitalism is the focus of eeeeeevil in the world.
The good news is you may qualify for a free cell phone. Call 1-800-375-5021 to learn more.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
February 6th, 2012
7:16 pm
It’s not that reporters and editors set out to inject bias into stories or headlines; that probably does happen sometimes but, in my opinion, again formed by experience, that represents a very limited number of media-bias cases.
Kyle – Have you ever read the Urinal?
Don't Tread
February 6th, 2012
7:46 pm
Arthur wants him a new stadium, great. He can pay for it.
JDW
February 6th, 2012
7:46 pm
@Kyle…” have heard no good explanation for why the alleged conservatives running our state…”
The problem is that they, like most Republicans after Eisenhower, say one thing and do the opposite.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 6th, 2012
7:53 pm
“they, like most Republicans after Eisenhower, say one thing and do the opposite”
————————–
George W. Bush said he was going to cut tax rates, and he did exactly that.
Obozo said he was going to repeal W’s tax cuts even before they expired. Oopsies, I guess that isn’t what you meant.
Linda
February 6th, 2012
8:11 pm
Lil’ Barry, Exactly what has Obama done that he said he was going to do other than trying to “transform American?” I understand he’s made good on a couple of promises in Iraq & Afghanistan, but how in the world can liberals or anyone else continue to support him with all his failed promises & policies? Did the progressives succeed in dumbing down our schools to the extent that the majority of Americans actually believe he can cause the oceans not to rise?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 6th, 2012
8:28 pm
The parasite class, whose political home is the Democrat party, supports Obozo because he promises them more stuff paid for by the productive. It really is that simple.
Linda
February 6th, 2012
8:53 pm
When our son was young & we reached our destination hotel, he would jump on the bed & from one bed to the other. I’m sure Jimmy Carter is doing the same thing. Finally, there is a president who will go down in history as worse than Carter.
Linda
February 6th, 2012
8:54 pm
Ten times worse.
Linda
February 6th, 2012
9:19 pm
Anyone who buys a vehicle with the minimum down payment is “underwater” the minute he or she drives out of the dealership or used car lot. Why would Obama want to rescue homeowners from irresponsible behavior & not rescue vehicle buyers? It’s coming!
Obama took over the health care industry. Next, he will take over ALL the insurance industries for properties, auto, life, etc.
Dusty
February 6th, 2012
10:05 pm
Well, I see that somewhere here there are posters who believe that Obama is not responsible for his three years in office. No, he’s just filling in what Bush left behind. Nothing more.
In other words, Obama is just a shadow figure under Bush’s image. All blame is placed on Bush because we have no leader now.
It seems these same folks have forgotten a classic truth. What a man or woman does while in office gives us the true measure of that person. How they handle what is given them gives us their true picture.
FDR came in a depression and then was hit with Pearl Harbor. He managed! Brought the country around.
Bush was faced with one of America’s great tragedies in his first year in office. He stood strong and kept the country on its feet.
Now we have Obama increasing one of the largest debts known in the history of the USA in just three years. He wants to add more. Few things have improved in housing, Vacant and foreclosed homes in the millions. Medical care in confusion with ObamaCare not even totatlly legal and expensive. Guantanamo is still running, not closed as promised. Gasoline prices skyrocket! This is the work of President Obama. NO way around it. He’s in charge. It is his three years.
I want a leader who can lead. I don’t think that is asking too much. At the next election, I will vote for someone I think can do that. It will not be our current president.. .
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 6th, 2012
10:12 pm
It would be nice to have a leader also who was less interested in destroying American institutions and replacing them with the state. His regime’s decision to force Catholic institutions to offer services which violate their beliefs (such as services that murder unborn children) is just the latest example.
Oh, and if you like your healthcare plan, you can keep it. Unless you’re Catholic.
Obozo: Lying criminal scum.
Linda
February 6th, 2012
10:41 pm
Dusty@10:05, Knock me down, girl! Knock me down again!
I disagree with your statement about FDR, but other than that, you have put the nail on the head.
Talking about the nail on the head, I tried to hire an out-of-work liberal to hang some pictures on the wall, a graduate of the Atlanta Public School System, & we argued that nails have heads. Oh, well. Some ends are sharp & other ends aren’t so sharp. How can anyone get nails upside down?
Hillbilly D
February 6th, 2012
10:42 pm
“Underwater” is real estate. The same condition in the car business is referred to as “upside down”.
MarkV
February 6th, 2012
10:43 pm
“Bush was faced with one of America’s great tragedies in his first year in office. He stood strong and kept the country on its feet. ”
He also created one of the great tragedies – the war in Iraq. And he stood so strong that the country was losing 700,000 jobs a month when he was finished with his job.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 7th, 2012
7:10 am
Our President Bush fixed the financial system and Idiot Obozo inherited a recovery. Three years later, unemployment is STILL higher than when Obozo took office.
Obozo: Fail.
Road Scholar
February 7th, 2012
7:38 am
Let’s build a new stadium (even farther from MARTA) so they can raise ticket prices beyond what the regular fans can afford! Yeah! That’s the ticket!!!
Road Scholar
February 7th, 2012
7:42 am
Now folks, this blog is about a football stadium and whether a new one should be built. Focus. Read Kyle’s article again. Focus.Comprehend. Focus. I know you can do it!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 7th, 2012
7:58 am
Sorry, Road, but the grace period for sticking to Kyle’s topic has expired.
Road Scholar
February 7th, 2012
8:12 am
lbb: Read Kyle’s article again. Focus.Comprehend. Focus. I know you can do it!
Why? Because you have a one track mind filled with anger? Can’t help yourself? So sad!
JohnnyReb
February 7th, 2012
8:42 am
Right on Kyle!
Chip
February 7th, 2012
9:07 am
If the Falcons want a new stadium, then funding should come from three sources: **Art Blank, the filthy rich team owner, **the Falcons organization itself, a multi-zillion dollar business that employs spoiled whiny-baby ball players, and **the drunken fools who burn their money slavishly following and worshipping their spoiled whiny-baby ball player idols.
As a sober adult taxpayer with the good sense to never actually set foot in the cesspool called ‘Atlanta’, leave me and my tax dollars out of this boondoggle.
Cosby
February 7th, 2012
9:31 am
Just remember, Dallas did the same..but wait..the NFL is a not for Profit organization that had $9 billion in their coffers in last year..wonder what they will have this year – non profit for those government educated means they did not pay taxes…and yet watch the citizens of Georgia drool all over themselves to get a new stadium and then willing to pay for it…sad very sad!
Call it like it is
February 7th, 2012
9:51 am
They should have kept Fulton County Stadium. It was a fun place to watch a game. You could bring in food, take in coolers. The game was played on grass like it should be. The dome is sterile and run much like a prison camp. Tell you what tell Blank to win a couple of rings then we will talk new home, until then shut up about it.
Do what??????
February 7th, 2012
9:59 am
“Not yet, but I imagine that you have.”
Try again, troll.
MountainMan
February 7th, 2012
10:20 am
The Atlanta Chiefs won the NASL championship back in the 70’s.
Don
February 7th, 2012
10:59 am
$720M gets you commuter rail to Lawrenceville/Athens with enough in the bank to cover operating subsidies in perpetuity. That’s a couple of lanes in each direction of highway capacity. It’s something that will keep Atlanta and Georgia moving ahead economically.
Or, you can deepen the Savannah port channel. That will bring economic activity to the state that would otherwise go to Jacksonville, Charleston or Norfolk.
Unlike a sports stadium – which just shuffles around money already in the local economy. Sports teams are privately held. There is no way public money should go for their benefit unless you can show a net public benefit for the money spend. Smearing local discretionary income around is a net ZERO.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 7th, 2012
11:03 am
Win a playoff game, and you won’t need a new stadium to keep folks coming to the games. I guess the latter approach is more of a sure thing though.
Dusty
February 7th, 2012
11:35 am
Well, I have to disagree with MarkV from last night.
To say that removing a dictatorship from a country can hardly be called a tragedy. That is what the USA did in Iraq. Their government isn’t perfect but it is a long way from a tragedy, unless you think oppression is OK.
Bush did leave with unemployment mounting. It is STILL high after three years. I hardly think that is the fault of Bush who has not been governing for those three years.
To point out Bush’s low points without mentioning the continuing “lows” of Obama is hardly credible. Just prejudiced.
Now back to stadiums, those expensive colossuses that even the Romans liked to build. I wonder if they too had Super Bowls?
MarkV
February 7th, 2012
12:11 pm
Dusty,
Your post @ February 6th, 2012, 10:05 pm, did not identify those posters you mentioned, but in case you meant my post @ 4:53 pm, let me remind you of a few things.
I have not, and I do not know who has, claimed that Obama was “not responsible for his three years in office.” Distorting what other people say or write is not an admirable behavior. A mild way of describing it is to say that you have used a straw man argument.
What I have pointed out, and you have not and could not deny it (even though you have shown the ability to deny the undeniable already), is that in any endeavor, in any position, success or failure can be measured only by taking the starting conditions into account. It may be an uncomfortable fact for you and your ilk, but it is still an objective fact that when Obama came into the office, the economy was shrinking, and hundreds of thousands of jobs were being lost each month. You cannot blame him for that condition. After his three years in office the economy is expanding and hundreds of thousands private sector jobs are being created each month. An uncomfortable fact for you, but an objective fact. By any rational measure it is called success, not failure, Unless one is a liar, like Romney and company, and claims that Obama “made the economy worse.”
You may argue, just like the Republican candidates and other Republicans, and even some Democrats and Independents do, that it is not enough, that the results should be better. That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. But do not confuse an opinion with facts.
As for Iraq, I would not even go there, if I were you. Are you from attacking Syria, then? Iran” All the other dictatorships?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 7th, 2012
12:21 pm
Can we blame Obozo for not repealing our President Bush’s tax cuts as promised during the campaign?
Can we blame Obozo for keeping Gitmo open?
Can we blame Obozo for spending $800 billion on a stimulus that didn’t reduce unemployment?
Can we blame Obozo for proposing $1.5 trillion budget deficits?
Can we blame Obozo for preventing people from “keeping their healthcare plan if they like it”?
Can we blame Obozo for wasting billions on loans to bankrupt corporations controlled by his campaign donors?
Obozo Receptacles: America-hating scum.
MarkV
February 7th, 2012
12:33 pm
Dusty @11:35 am: “To say that removing a dictatorship from a country can hardly be called a tragedy. That is what the USA did in Iraq.”
Tell the families of the 4,326 dead US soldiers, tens of thousands of crippled soldiers, and the families of more than 100,000 dead Iraqis that it “can hardly be called a tragedy.”
Hillbilly D
February 7th, 2012
12:49 pm
The Atlanta Chiefs won the NASL championship back in the 70’s.
1968, actually.
Jefferson
February 7th, 2012
1:00 pm
When you GOP supporters cry and whine, that means something good is happening for the USA. Beautiful music, it is.
getalife
February 7th, 2012
1:13 pm
The mental disorder known as conservatism is ending in our country.
Good riddance.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 7th, 2012
1:16 pm
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, following a recent anti-piracy legislative debacle with SOPA and PIPA, will lead his second effort of 2012 to push Internet-regulating legislation, this time in the form of a new cybersecurity bill. The expected bill is the latest attempt by the Democrats to broadly expand the authority of executive branch agencies over the Internet.
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/02/06/democrats-to-continue-internet-coup-with-new-cyber-bill/#ixzz1lilpaZG6
———-
Remember when such a thing would have the libtards screaming about the Constitution being shredded?
Democrats: Liberal fascists.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 7th, 2012
1:18 pm
conservatism is ending in our country
———-
Tell that to Speaker Pelosi.
@@
February 7th, 2012
1:41 pm
Does Kyle write part-time? Oh well…quality over quantity wins out over jay’s place. Same ol’ same ol’.
So, according to reports 11.3 million people watched the Super Bowl (at home on their tee wees). How many were there (where was there?) in person. Hardly seems worth it.
Last time I was at Atlanta’s stadium, I was either puked on, spilled upon, spat upon or hocked upon from above. I’ve never been back.
I’ll take Kyle’s word for it. I was “hocked” on?
ewwwwww…just…
ew
wallbanger
February 7th, 2012
2:30 pm
This isn’t even a sports town. I have lived in sports towns, like Pittsburgh and St. Louis where people actually turn out for games, win or lose. But Atlantans only go when they are subsidized by corporate money or the team is on some kind of big streak. They aren’t loyal. Why on earth is a stadium a priority for this city, when the money could be used for so many other more useful projects. How about a decent sized city park as example?
Dusty
February 7th, 2012
2:35 pm
MarkV
If you continue to say “you and your ilk”, no need to address your thoughts to me. I will ignore you.
Of course, people die in wars. That is why those conflicts are so horrible. How sad that they become necessary.
As to Iraq, I ‘m pretty sure the Iraqis were glad to be free from Saddam. They wasted no time hanging him by his neck. Now they have some representation in their government.
We have lost millions of Americans in wars because of the terrible things in this world. We fight against them. That is why we still have a safe America.
My parents are buried in a VA cemetery. My father was a doctor in the military during wartime.. He did not die in the line of duty. But many in that same cemetery died fighting for their country.
Freedom does not seem too precious for you. Some people do not appreciate what they have. But most Americans realize that freedom is worth fighting for, even if it disposing a tyrant.
No, we cannot remove every tyrant. Only those that threaten us or become massive killers of mankind such as Hitler.
As to your biased information, President Obama is NOT successful in most of his endeavors. Maybe no one else could have done better. But the fact remains, he is responsible for the direction of the last three years and the national debt, the economy, housing, amd employment are NOT good. There is no way you can say so truthfully.
@@
February 7th, 2012
2:41 pm
They aren’t loyal.
Loyal to a bunch of strangers…most, if not all…from parts unknown? They’d quickly walk away with a better contract.
I know nothing about professional sports. Seems like a waste of time and money to me.
I’m more into providing sports facilities for local youth.
Dusty
February 7th, 2012
2:46 pm
@@,
Give our stadium another chance. What you need is a nice sunny day, good friends, the Braves on a tear, some good snacks, and a loud mouth to join the crowd. More fun!! But sit close enough to make out the players’ faces. Gives an extra touch!! Go, BRAVES!!
@@
February 7th, 2012
3:03 pm
Dusty:
What you need is…
Barf bags and/or tissues for the folks above me and deodorant for the folks around me? Catching a fly ball is one thing…but catching flies? That’s a whole different ballgame.
(ISH)
@@
February 7th, 2012
3:13 pm
Kewl!
Santorum is looking like he may even edge out Romney in two of the three states. He’s got him beat by nearly 10 points in Minnesota, according to the polls. He is also ahead of him 45% to 32% in Missouri.
However, the former Massachusetts governor is well ahead in Colorado with 37%, with Santorum at 27%, Gingrich at 21% and Ron Paul with 13%.
PPP pollster Tom Jensen said Santorum is doing particularly well with Tea Partiers, evangelicals and those who describe themselves as “very conservative” — key groups Gingrich has previously banked on.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/election-2012/rick-santorum-newt-gingrich-spot-gop-top-not-romney-candidate-polls-article-1.1018551#ixzz1ljFLttUB
MarkV
February 7th, 2012
4:01 pm
Dusty,
If you consider the expression “you and your ilk” offensive, I apologize. To me it is inoffensive, in this connotation meaning simply people who have the same opinions.
Do not preach to me about freedom, wars, etc. You have your family history, I have my history. What you have written was callous and offensive, when you used the expression ”no great tragedy” referring to the Iraq war. What I wrote about Bush was: “He also created one of the great tragedies – the war in Iraq.” I have my opinion about the Iraq war, which is different from yours, but that was not a point I was making. I meant exactly and literally the words I wrote, that the war Bush created was a tragedy. So do not put something else into my statement.
Another distortion you have now used was the following: “ As to your biased information, President Obama is NOT successful in most of his endeavors.” Which biased information? Spell it out! Where did I write that Obama WAS successful in most of his endeavors? I wrote about a specific issue, because that was the item discussed,and you failed to respond to the point.
Dusty
February 7th, 2012
4:08 pm
MarkV
ILK is offensive.
War is hell.
You are a blind Obama follower.
I am not.
So long.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 7th, 2012
4:08 pm
If you’re such a loser that you need the Catholic church to pay for your contraceptives, you’re really too stupid to be having sex. But that’s the Obozo base for ya.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
February 7th, 2012
5:03 pm
101!
Linda
February 7th, 2012
5:15 pm
Lil’ Barry, Obama & his minions want the Catholic Church to pay for contraceptives & breast cancer research to pay for abortions.
He’s telling the Catholics they cannot read the entire letter from the bishop during church services. After that campaign speech he gave during the prayer breakfast last week, he is one to preach. Our Gingrey walked out.
Obama still hasn’t healed the planet or slowed the rise of the oceans. Put that on the list of broken campaign promises.
Taxi Smith
February 9th, 2012
12:08 pm
I’ll support a new Falcons’ stadium if they build it OUTSIDE the war zone that is downtown Atlanta. Messy…dirty…no decent transit…no parking…not a retaurant or bar within gunshot…a bump on a log. Put it in Gwinnett, north DeKalb, east Cobb, or even as far north as the Mall of Georgia area and THEY WILL COME!