T-SPLOST transit projects don’t address real problems of congestion — or even of MARTA
The chief argument for approving the T-SPLOST in a referendum this year boils down to this: If it fails, what kind of signal will that send to businesses wary of Atlanta’s notorious traffic congestion?
Instead of worrying about a negative message for a couple of years — until Plan B emerged, as it inevitably would — voters ought to be more concerned by what it will mean for the next couple of decades if we spend billions of dollars on projects that don’t improve matters much.
It’s true that some worthy projects would receive funding from the 1 percent sales tax lawmakers are putting to a public vote. To wit: Improved interchanges of major interstates, such as the top end of I-285 with I-85 and Ga. 400, should ease bottlenecks that now back up rush-hour commuters for miles.
But the list is too compromised by other big-ticket items that will tie up tax dollars for far more than 10 years without lessening traffic. Transit projects, which consume more than half of the $6.14 billion expected to be available for regional projects, are the prime suspects.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: I am not opposed to transit per se. But let’s review the T-SPLOST list’s obvious flaws by looking at the effects it would — and wouldn’t — have on MARTA.
MARTA is down for $540 million from T-SPLOST for repairs and upgrades to existing infrastructure. This backlog exists even though half of the agency’s sales tax revenue is reserved for capital improvements and maintenance.
In other words, the agency can’t keep up with its maintenance and capital needs now. Yet, a proposed answer is to drop the restriction and allow MARTA to divert maintenance money to subsidize operations. Passenger fares yield a fraction of what it costs to run trains and buses.
Stick with me here: I promise to tie all this together.
A big reason MARTA’s farebox recovery is so low is that its trains and buses too often aren’t full. Having too few passengers forces the agency to cut frequency to make trains and buses more full and thus cost-efficient.
Cutting frequency, however, means fewer people choose to ride MARTA if they have other options. Which leads to fewer passengers, which leads to less fare revenue, which makes MARTA even less able to sustain itself.
The obvious answer is to draw more people into the network, but MARTA’s reach is limited geographically. So, logically, the T-SPLOST list should expand that footprint.
It doesn’t.
Two major transit projects on the list are the Beltline and the Clifton Corridor line. Each exists within MARTA’s current footprint. A third is the line that extends northwest from MARTA’s current rail lines to Cumberland Mall. That’s an expansion of sorts, but the line would still be miles and miles — and more than $1 billion — from reaching the parts of Cobb County where traffic is worst.
Together, these projects consume a third of the money for regional projects while bringing a relatively small number of people just a couple of miles closer to a MARTA station. The real traffic woes lie tens of miles from MARTA’s furthest outposts.
Here’s the kicker: Ending the restriction on MARTA’s sales-tax revenues is being offered in exchange for putting the agency under a regional authority. This new entity wouldn’t actually run MARTA, the Cobb or Gwinnett transit agencies, or any others. Instead, its chief purpose would be to give metro Atlanta a single voice when seeking federal funding for transit.
Why is this important? Because regional leaders think federal funds will be necessary to extend transit out into the suburbs. Why? Because T-SPLOST money is being spent on projects that don’t extend transit to the suburbs!
You can ride a long time in the ruts of this circular logic without getting anywhere. Surely, the commuters who sit in traffic, while T-SPLOST doesn’t address their problems, will do just that.
Two Cobb leaders have asked the Legislature to reopen the region’s T-SPLOST list to move money away from the Cumberland line and toward new reversible lanes on I-75. Some key legislators are hesitant to do anything that could prevent a vote on the tax this year.
My advice? Worry less about getting this done soon and more about getting it right.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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135 comments Add your comment
Karl Marx
February 2nd, 2012
6:14 am
That right TSPLOST does little to really address gridlock but it does put lots of money toward the Beltline. Just vote NO on this government welfare project.
Edward
February 2nd, 2012
6:31 am
The know-nothings in the legislature want MARTA and the City of Atlanta to fail. It is part of their decades-long agenda called “the cut off our nose to spite our face” initiative. Of course, it doesn’t help having the corruption and cronyism that plague both MARTA and the City of Atlanta. It makes for a completely distopian setup. I don’t foresee any improvement in our lifetimes.
DeborahinAthens
February 2nd, 2012
6:34 am
OMG! You and I agree on something! I cannot believe you said money should be given to expand Marta’s footprint. You are the only Republican in the state to think rationally about our traffic problems. For fourteen years I drove from Gwinnett county into Buckhead. The drive eventually morphed into a four hour chunk of time taken from my day. I went to every meeting that was held trying to get rapid transit in Gwinnett. Then narrow minded twits didn’t want to do it because it would bring in the “wrong element” and the taxes would go up. These were the same arguments that we heard in the fifties and sixties when my father (who drove from Dacula to Lockheed in Marietta!!) would say the same thing. Meanwhile NYC, Boston, and Chicago built first rate rapid transit systems. I’ve used them all throughout the years. To my knowledge all of these transit systems are subsidized by their respective governments. In early 2001, I couldn’t take sitting in traffic and I got a job in Athens and moved here. I am less than five minutes from my workplace. My husband is even closer. He fills up his car with gas once a month. If any company is considering Atlanta as a location, they have to look at the horrible traffic and, if they have any sense, will move that business somewhere else. By the way the crap about people not using Marta is bogus. When I worked in Atlanta, I took Marta to all my appointments downtown. I would gladly have taken Marta from Gwinnett to Buckhead. It would have been a thirty minute ride. Oh, and by the way, the “bad element” got to Gwinnett anyway…it is the gang capital of the south…go figure. I guess they know how to drive.
Churchill's MOM.....Ron Paul for President
February 2nd, 2012
6:38 am
I have decided that Reed may be more corrupt than Bill Cambell. Look at his management of the airport bidding. Now the beltline will be a total payoff to Reed’s buddies. How can anyone trust the current management of MARTA to manage anything? I’ll be voting NO for this rip off.
Ayn Rant
February 2nd, 2012
7:31 am
What you cite is not “circular logic”; it’s just the constraints of funding. A 1% increase in sales tax will not solve Atlanta’s traffic problems. Trillions, not billions, of dollars in infrastructure are needed to make a proper city of the uncoordinated mess of counties and municipalities that constitute metropolitan Atlanta.
Atlanta is a politically splintered city of more than 5 million population, surrounded by a poor, backward, and neglectful state. If the state government would give back what it takes from the Atlanta area, we would have the revenue needed to expand MARTA, support commuter rail, and meter the freeway on-ramps to keep traffic moving during rush hour.
Chris
February 2nd, 2012
7:47 am
Re-opening the project list at this late date is a non-starter. The whole thing would fall apart as counties squabble over pet projects.
Tim Lee is more worried about his own hide than doing anything useful for Cobb County. Most of the projects in that county were chosen by cronies and insiders who would get to leech off the taxpayers dime. The end result will be no improvements in road congestion.
Jimmy the Cricket
February 2nd, 2012
8:00 am
I agree… IT’S NOT REGIONAL AND SCOPE… Shoot it down and forced the ill-advised team of pacifers (21 member transportation board) to come up with a REGIONAL RAIL solution.
Prisca
February 2nd, 2012
8:27 am
We in DeKalb and Fulton county have paid the 1-cent tax for 30+ years without complaining–too much. Most of us actually take pride in having a viable transit system. We really expected it to grow and get the support it needs from the rest of the state. But, in spite of MARTA, my neighborhood is completely “trafficked in.” I park on side streets sometimes because I can’t get into or out of my driveway on Briarcliff Road, and not just at rush hour either.
So please don’t tell me that the main congestion is at the interchanges in Cobb County, and that reversible lanes on the interstates would solve metropolitan congestion problems.
If we see this as a regional problem with a regional solution, we can all benefit.
I’m so ready to vote for TSPLOST.
Road Scholar
February 2nd, 2012
8:28 am
“Two major transit projects on the list are the Beltline and the Clifton Corridor line. Each exists within MARTA’s current footprint.”
Previously people have said that MARTA does not go to any large development beyond the trunk lines that exist today. Then, by defining distribution/collection rail corridors like Emory and the Beltline, you say it still doesn’t go anywhere. Have you ever looked at a map of successful rail lines and seen how they make access easier to collect passengers they need to be successful?
Washington DC’s Metro looks like someone spilled a bowl of spagetti with the lines crossing others to provide better access. Our linear system does not do that.
And when , pray tell, do we start to provide access to the suburbs, which the Cumberland line starts to do? Do you expect a whole system to drop from the sky and be totally functional for all of Atlanta…for free? At least this is a beginning. One of the important questions not being asked is when does Fulton and Dekalb stop paying there 1% for MARTA, or when does the rest of the region start paying it if that is what is needed to make transit successful.We cannot build ourselves out of congestion with roads alone.
BW
February 2nd, 2012
8:34 am
Unfortunately that’s been the issue from the start: our leaders don’t want to present the full scale of the problem to us like adults. At this point it’s going to take far more than $6 billion to upgrade the infrastructure to handle the existing population let alone plan for future population. Developers and cities were far too callous in building out in the burbs during the boom times resulting in inadequate arterial roads that would allow people making local trips to not use the interstate. According to the Atlanta Regional Commission, a full build-out of their 2040 regional transportation plan requires $61 billion!! We are bickering over a tenth of that amount without resolving any actual problem. Our leaders need to first do a better job of defining the scope of the solutions and stress that it is not an overnight fix. Second, we need to stop fighting the same war over transit vs roads. If you live in Acworth, then roads are going to be your primary concern. If you live on Howell Mill Rd you might wonder why there are no rapid transit options nearby. The ARC regional plan addresses both with the understanding that both are needed to improve the flow of traffic. I just don’t know if the legislators at the Gold Dome truly understand or even care about this problem as we continue to see legislation like silencers for hunting. I just hope that Georgia doesn’t lose because no one really wants to address the REAL issues that allow the prosperity in metro Atlanta that subsidizes the rest of the state.
DagnyT
February 2nd, 2012
8:39 am
I’m still waiting to hear how a new tower and runway at a general aviation airport in Kennesaw is going to improve commuter traffic anywhere. Why in the world is that on the list?
St Simons - codewords are the new black
February 2nd, 2012
8:41 am
“soon vs right”? well, that’s two mules who are already out o the barn
notorious traffic congestion? that’s being too kind. I sat in on several
of those “where should we put our business/plant” meetings, and
even back then, you should’ve seen the eye-rolls when someone
mentioned Atlanta, or even the perimeter.
But if I hadn’t got tired of it, I wouldn’t be here. Never mind..carry on
fred garvey
February 2nd, 2012
8:46 am
its to late! as a lifelong atlantan i offer a few observations,the interstates are gridlocked because short sighted neighborhood activists who have now all passed are left town killed I-485 and the GA 400 extension to I-675 along with the eastern half of the lakewood freeway to the 400 extension near I-675 40 years ago.the then state highway dept(now GDOT) had studies that predicted what traffic would be like in the 21st century but they wanted to preserve some houses in decatur and east atlanta that you can”t even get to now because of the gridlock from traffic coming off the stub of the stone mountain freeway and jamming up scott blvd,ponce de leon and north decatur rd.and the area around emory,.the 400 ext to I 675 would have been an east side bypass for thru traffic to advoid the downtown connector and take some of the pressure off of I-285,all that allowed to be built was the now freedom parkway(to nowhere)look at the map of atlanta interstate system these are the missing spokes of the wheel.combine this with failure to have real commuter trains,mismanagement of marta,which in the 1970s had a bus system way more efficient than the feeder to rail system now.and the stupid streetcar to nowhere they are building which is useless for commuters f so many millions are gonna ride it? how come marta never had a dedicated shuttle bus on this route.)and asking every one to subsidize the pie in the sky beltline that only benifits the connected few> this is why the the tax will fail and traffic will only get worse..just my 2 cents.
Out by the Pond
February 2nd, 2012
9:18 am
I said it before and I will say it again…..A 1% sales tax is no way to finance out way out of this mess. We must elect leaders with back bone who are not scared to raise taxes to pay for necessary improvements.
DannyX
February 2nd, 2012
9:20 am
Those poor mistreated citizens in Cobb and Gwinnett are truly suffering. They used up all their land for tacky houses and strip malls. They hate taxes, they really hate taxes. They hate their ridiculous traffic too.
As a long time resident of DeKalb County I really feel sorry for them. I hear them shout “Why me!!!” and it breaks my heart. I want to pay the 1 cent MARTA tax and I think DeKalb and Fulton should give their share of the T-SPLOST tax to poor old Cobb and Gwinnett! They are truly suffering. Lets do the right thing, they hate taxes, they need our help. Lets pick up the tab to bail them out of their unfortunate jam.
Just say YES Fulton and DeKalb. Yes to the Cobb and Gwinnett bailout. Show them our money. Vote yes on the Suburban I Hate Taxes Bailout Transportation Tax. Do it for their children.
Dumb and Dumber
February 2nd, 2012
9:30 am
That’s it Fred, we can build our way out of gridlock. All we have to do is spend millions on buying out homes that are actually close to job centers, destroy neighborhoods that have sidewalks where people can actually walk to their destination…all so people who want to live 40 miles from their job can have an easier commute.
Pave here, pave now.
Kyle likes to criticize transit projects (and he is actually almost right in this context)but he clearly does not ride on the same MARTA line that I do — every morning and evening the East line is packed with riders — granted, they are not the white republicans that Kyle would feel comfortable mixing with … but they are still carbon-based bi-pedals.
What Kyle doesn’t crticize is the road projects that are clearly designed to appeal to a narrow suburban interest and which do little to increase connectivity.
I certainly oppose the T-SPLOST — but I do so because the project list (both road and transit) look like it was created by a Congressional Committee that specializes in earmarks. Millions for the beltline but not a dime to create the hub for a regional bus/commuter rail line?
Its time local politicians, state legislators, editorial writers and the mostly ignorant public (including yours truly) got out of the way and we actually create a transportation authority that is not designed to serve the narrow interests of the burbs or the city.
Never gonna happen, but its way past time.
Vote no on this turkey and, Fred, enjoy your car. Get some books on tape or something to improve your mind. When you chose to live far from your job, you signed up for a long commute. Deal with it.
Intown
February 2nd, 2012
9:41 am
Kyle: I think you wrongly assume that a mere transit project or two can fix the top end of the perimeter. The problem with the top end of the Perimeter is more fundamental than that. The point of pushing mass transit is in part to ease existing traffic congestion but more so to change development patterns into something more sustainable. Just like if you expand a road, more people will simply come and fill it with additional cars, if you change development patterns to hug transit corridors, you’ll start getting people out of their cars and onto sidewalks, bicycles, and mass transit. Of course, this too runs directly counter to your conservadox thinking so I’m not sure there is really any pleasing a conservative columnist with T-SPLOST.
Kyle Wingfield
February 2nd, 2012
9:44 am
Road: I’ve been on a lot of subway systems in a lot of cities. And, yes, they often have more than trunk lines. (They also tend to have more people living more densely within the city proper, but that’s a debate for another day.) But it seems to me that the chief problem for MARTA — and for traffic congestion more broadly — is not that there’s too little connectivity within the Atlanta city limits, but that there’s pretty much zero connectivity where the other 90% of the region’s population lives.
I’ve written before, and will reiterate today, that the more sensible approach would be to push for commuter rail on existing rail lines to the northwest (Cobb), northeast (Gwinnett) and south (Clayton). That would feed a lot more people into the existing system, allowing it to become a better option for more potential riders already within its range and thus more viable, and then focus on further connectivity within the city. Spend the T-SPLOST money retrofitting/expanding the lines to do that in a way that doesn’t interfere with freight traffic. It ought to cost a lot less than the $2 billion allocated to the three biggest transit items on the current list — and a heckuva lot less than the $4.5 billion or so it will take to extend light rail eventually to Acworth and the Gwinnett arena.
If Cobb (or any other jurisdiction) then wants to pursue light rail for development purposes, let the folks there go for it. (And development is what that project is all about: No commuter is going to ride a train from Acworth or Kennesaw to Atlanta that stops every quarter- to half-mile … and if it doesn’t stop that often, there’s no point in ripping up road to build it in that corridor. Another example of the circular logic on display here.)
At that point, I’d be a lot more interested in a MARTA connection from Cumberland-Perimeter-Doraville than the Clifton Corridor. The Beltline has its own funding mechanism, which is reason enough for it not to be included in the T-SPLOST list.
For the record: Because I live intown, I personally would be more apt to use the Beltline or Clifton Corridor than any of the alternatives I’ve just described. But if the purpose is to relieve regional traffic congestion, with all the knock-on economic benefits that would bring, then I think it’s a no-brainer which types of plans achieve that purpose most quickly and cost-efficiently.
Intown
February 2nd, 2012
9:44 am
Wouldn’t MARTA be running the BeltLine transit and the Clifton Corridor? They will be running the streetcar.
Intown
February 2nd, 2012
9:46 am
Ok. Now I see where you’re coming from.
UGA 1999
February 2nd, 2012
9:47 am
The transportation in Atlanta is broken. From the roads to MARTA there needs to be a complete overhaul but that is too expensive and time consuming.
Kyle Wingfield
February 2nd, 2012
9:49 am
Intown: First, see what I posted at 9:44.
Second, thank you for admitting that the real goal here is essentially to force people to live differently than the vast, vast majority of them in this region have chosen to live over the past few decades. But I don’t think it will work. After all, if transit corridors attract development and residential growth, then why hasn’t that happened along the existing MARTA lines? Why haven’t the businesses that say transit is oh-so important for them chosen to locate along those lines?
Grasshopper
February 2nd, 2012
9:49 am
fred garvey is correct (although hard to decipher!)
Overlay a map of metro Atlanta with almost any city in the country and the problem is obvious; there has been zero planning involved in the development of this city from it’s inception. The arterial road system is based on Indian trails and cow paths – you truly cannot take a direct route from anywhere to anywhere. The interstate system slices through and connects awkwardly. Marta is a poor imitation of a well connected transit system.
What is the answer? I don’t know but I fear that this T-Splost is not it.
ATLBadger
February 2nd, 2012
9:53 am
I’m becoming more and more convinced that due to tremendously fractured metro area governments, incompetent leadership (at all levels), historical planning mistakes, the selfish attitude of many residents (who don’t want to pay for anything that they won’t directly use), prejudice, partisan politics, the disdain for Atlanta by non-metro Atlanta residents, etc., etc., we will never be able to solve the problem.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 2nd, 2012
9:54 am
MARTA is a huge failure and now we’re asked to sign on to a huge tax increase to double down on that.
The only sane vote is “no”.
Jefferson
February 2nd, 2012
10:04 am
Atlanta need transit, it will cost big money, the best use of taxes is to pay for needs.
ATLBadger
February 2nd, 2012
10:07 am
Kyle wrote: “After all, if transit corridors attract development and residential growth, then why hasn’t that happened along the existing MARTA lines? Why haven’t the businesses that say transit is oh-so important for them chosen to locate along those lines?”
Kyle – It has happened and to suggest otherwise is disingenuous. Look at the tremendous growth (both in commercial and dense residential properties) in the Midtown, Buckhead, Perimeter, and Lindbergh areas since the inception of MARTA. Look at the residential and commercial revitalization of neighborhoods like Inman Park, and downtown Decatur. Yes, some of that would have taken place without MARTA, but certainly MARTA has been one of the drivers. I think Lindbergh is a great example of this in very recent years.
MARTA isn’t perfect, but you can’t deny that it has indeed directly impacted the urban development of Atlanta.
DannyX
February 2nd, 2012
10:12 am
I think Lil’ Barry is right. Whose stupid idea was the whole T-SLOST disaster anyway?
Oh yeah, it was the Republicans, that figures…
The Republicans not wanting to go against their own “no new taxes” rule cowardly punted this to the voters.
Then they stacked the project list committee with local suburban Republican leaders.
Then the suburban Republican dominated committee decided what transportation projects would be paid for with the new tax.
Now we have suburban Republican leaders trying to get the cowardly Republican state legislature to change the project list because they didn’t like what the suburban Republican committee agreed to.
What a mess, as Lil’ Barry pointed out Republicans can’t do anything right.
Angus
February 2nd, 2012
10:17 am
1. The TSPLOST stinks to high heaven, but we may just have to bring our clothes pins to the booth and vote for it.
2. The transit governing legislation currently being considered could be the final nail in the coffin for the TSPLOST – the TSPLOST must get significant support from Fulton and Dekalb to pass.
3. As long as raising the motor fuel tax remains a non-starter, you can forget about any significant improvements in metro traffic. The TSPLOST alone is a drop in the bucket of our needs.
Do what??????
February 2nd, 2012
10:23 am
“You are the only Republican in the state to think rationally about our traffic problems.
Every major city has traffic problems. The biggest, BIGGEST problem in Atlanta is poor city planning. If Atlanta was built on a grid system like Chicago or NYC then a rail system would work.
Do what??????
February 2nd, 2012
10:24 am
“they are not the white republicans”
Why is it that only black people, mostly Democrats, play the race card when there is NOTHING about race within an article?
ragnar danneskjold
February 2nd, 2012
10:42 am
I will always vote against transportation T-SPLOSTs because of the false assumption that is predicate for the essay: “If it fails, what kind of signal will that send to businesses wary of Atlanta’s notorious traffic congestion?”
If great mass transit was even a minimal factor for private enterprise, the high growth areas would be New York City, Chicago, Boston, and Washington DC, all of which have negative growth in private enterprise (we acknowledge the DC bureaucrat boom under Chauncey.) Rather than locate in New York, Illinois, or Massachusetts, however, the growth is in cities with the lousiest public transportation: Dallas, Houston, Miami, Tampa Bay, Nashville, Charlotte, Atlanta. All but the final two have no state income tax to repel businesses.
The message that private enterprise would perceive from a rejection of T-SPLOST would be, “hey, these people are serious about keeping taxes down.”
ByteMe
February 2nd, 2012
10:42 am
Kyle: You and I agree completely. Kill T-SPLOST now. Come back with a plan that merges MARTA with other regional transit agencies and fund it with a 1% PERMANENT sales tax and use it to expand the footprint of all rapid transit (including park-and-drive commuter buses) throughout the region in a coordinated effort that works across county lines. Then come back with a 5-year T-SPLOST for road-based projects within the region.
For those watching from home who are saying “why a permanent tax?” it’s because you can’t get bonds issued to fund a transportation project unless there’s a reliable source of funding to pay off the bonds. You can’t start building without the cash up-front to pay for the project, so you need a bond issue to get that cash (and then pay it off with the tax or toll revenue). So to do what we need done, we need to show the will to tax ourselves indefinitely to pay for bond issues that will fund it. We can always sunset the tax if we can afford it after the bonds are paid off, but considering the growth in the region, we’ll likely need it forever as we expand rail footprints to all corners of the region.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 2nd, 2012
10:47 am
DannyX: I think Lil’ Barry is right. Whose stupid idea was the whole T-SLOST disaster anyway? Oh yeah, it was the Republicans, that figures…
———-
Remember this day whenever you’re tempted to drag out that lame-azz “where were you Republicans when the GOP did thus-and-such” argument.
MiltonMan
February 2nd, 2012
10:47 am
No vote for me. $100 million for the Clayton County Bus System that has already proven that it is not economical feasible, forcing Fulton/DeKalb county residents to continue to pay a penny tax to support MARTA, politicians extending the life of the 400 toll (big fat lie on a promise made to residents), etc., etc.
TBone
February 2nd, 2012
11:04 am
Hey who cares if it solves a problem or not, it’s the government stupid and if the government wants to grow and grow and grow, we can all stand back and feed the beast. This project is intended to create a larger role of the government; to hell with y’all.
ATLBadger
February 2nd, 2012
11:07 am
“If great mass transit was even a minimal factor for private enterprise, the high growth areas would be New York City, Chicago, Boston, and Washington DC, all of which have negative growth in private enterprise (we acknowledge the DC bureaucrat boom under Chauncey.) Rather than locate in New York, Illinois, or Massachusetts, however, the growth is in cities with the lousiest public transportation: Dallas, Houston, Miami, Tampa Bay, Nashville, Charlotte, Atlanta. All but the final two have no state income tax to repel businesses.”
Aside from the TX cities, you could also make a pretty reasonable argument that Boston, NYC, San Fran, and DC have all performed better through the recession than ATL and some other Sun Belt cities. Also, Dallas now has 72 miles of light rail (DART) and is building and planning more.
Intown
February 2nd, 2012
11:08 am
Kyle:
Growth has occured along MARTA corridors. See Lindbergh station, Lenox/Buckhead stations, Peachtree Center, etc. MARTA stops in existing residential neighborhoods has also helped keep up their prop values. See Inman Park station, Candler Park, etc. They’ve also increased convenience to downtown for suburban communters. Check out the parking lots at the ends of the lines extending into northern and eastern suburbs on a weekday. MARTA has a few problems though. For historic/political reasons it doesn’t go out far enough. and intown, it isn’t pedestrian user friendly becuase theire aren’t enough stops and the heavy-rail nature of it is rather imposing to a pedestrian. That’s why a light-rail and/or streetcar network would complement it well. You need to have a chat with Ryan Gravel.
Road Scholar
February 2nd, 2012
11:15 am
Kyle, I disagree that Marta needs less connectivity ITP, where the density is already dense, or will become more dense. The age old problem, mostly driven by neighborhoods , is that there are not multi- use developments at these stations. That is changing.
But one of the issues with using comuter rail is the distance between stops. In addition, the railroads want a third set of rails, esp on their main tracks, since freight traffic, and interstate passenger traffic is increasing. They do NOT want to share that third set of rails. Then you have the issue with the neighborhoods again that complain about the rail traffic/noise even though these neighbors bought a home next to an existing rail corridor.
Kyle Wingfield
February 2nd, 2012
11:18 am
ATLBadger @ 10:07: And yet, the percentage of commuters using transit hasn’t really changed in recent years: 4% in 2007, 5% in 2010. Carpool and teleworking — the latter of which might make the most sense in terms of using public policy to encourage alternatives to driving on the highways — were and remain two and a half times as popular.
I live very close to Lindbergh. If you don’t, I recommend you drive around there between, say, 8 p.m. and 10 p.m. — i.e., after the time when people would need to turn on their lights, but before many people would have gone to bed. Look at the apartments and notice how many of them don’t have any lights on inside. (Also look at how many have something on their porches vs. those that don’t.)
Maybe those apartments will fare better once the overbuilding of residential property is absorbed. (OTOH, you can’t ignore the fact that they were part of the overbuilding.) But that’s not the only example in that area. Around rush hour, if you ever have the spare time and are so inclined, sit and watch the entrance to those Post apartments on the other side of Lindbergh Drive, and notice how many people there are walking across the street to MARTA vs. the number of cars leaving the gate.
Might some more of those people use MARTA if it went more places? I’m sure many of them would. But enough to outnumber the suburbanites who have even more limited options now? I highly doubt it.
Kyle Wingfield
February 2nd, 2012
11:26 am
Road: I never said “less connectivity ITP.” What I’m talking about are priorities — what gets done first.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 2nd, 2012
11:27 am
Hey who cares if it solves a problem or not
———-
The folks begging for the money don’t.
ATLBadger
February 2nd, 2012
11:40 am
Kyle – You’re above statement does nothing to prove your earlier statement of “After all, if transit corridors attract development and residential growth, then why hasn’t that happened along the existing MARTA lines? Why haven’t the businesses that say transit is oh-so important for them chosen to locate along those lines?”
So you don’t think that the Lindbergh MARTA station had anything to do with attracting that development? Yeah, Lindbergh has problems due to much of it being built right before the recession (therefore empty units), but I guarantee you that that MARTA station had a big impact on the decision making process of the developers. And I’m sure that if you polled the people who have moved into those units, MARTA nearby was probably a significant factor, even if they aren’t using it on a daily basis. I gave multiple other examples of significant changes to neighborhoods in the time since MARTA first opened a rail station.
BTW, I’m not arguing against suburban expansion of commuter rail. I think that’s very important. But to deny that MARTA has impacted development decisions in Atlanta is just silly.
I know this is just an opinion blog, but hard line statements like that don’t do accomplish anything.
GT
February 2nd, 2012
11:42 am
A vast majority of these people were not here decades ago. They move to Atlanta just like they would New York and do as the Romans do. Also most of the people here decades ago live close in and have good transportation, it is these new comers that have been stuck in the woods.
A few things need to be abundantly clear. First this doesn’t turn into an Atlanta Airport extortion skim or a Savannah harbor where political patronage it paid by given the jobs as barter. Second we can keep this mass construction job out of the pocket of crooks. Third you can clean up places like Cumberland that have a violent shooting about every quarter as it is, and will only get worse with the new system. I wouldn’t mind seeing Cumberland torn down and something more difficult to hang out put in its place. Can you imagine the cost of policing this new found Crimeworld?
yuzeyurbrane
February 2nd, 2012
11:47 am
Food for thought. There are some important projects but there is also a lot of pure pork. Also, there is a certain amount of socialism for the wealthy–why doesn’t Emory with its billions kick in a significant part of the Clifton Corridor project which will primarily benefit Emory?
ByteMe
February 2nd, 2012
11:52 am
Third you can clean up places like Cumberland that have a violent shooting about every quarter as it is, and will only get worse with the new system.</i.
How exactly does it get worse with the new system?
GT
February 2nd, 2012
12:13 pm
How did it get bad as it is now? Ask a Cobb County law enforcers how much trouble there has been since the Marta Bus line has nook down over the river to Cumberland. You can PR a lot of stuff but facts are facts, so how do you promote this without telling the truth?
ByteMe
February 2nd, 2012
12:16 pm
Ask a Cobb County law enforcers how much trouble there has been since the Marta Bus line has nook down over the river to Cumberland. You can PR a lot of stuff but facts are facts, so how do you promote this without telling the truth?
Facts are facts, but you haven’t done anything but tell us to go find anecdotal evidence of what you claim to be “facts”. Hard to believe anecdotes with no actual anecdotes… and no real facts.
GT
February 2nd, 2012
12:19 pm
ByteMe do as many Cobb County people go downtown as Atlanta people come to Cobb Cy?
shawny
February 2nd, 2012
12:23 pm
NO to T-SPLOST, or any other type of SPLOST for that matter. Make do with existing revenues and fit expenses into the budget appropriately.
If I spend too much, do you think I can just go to my employer and say I want another percent just because I spend too much or don’t budget appropriately?
clyde
February 2nd, 2012
12:24 pm
Congestion isn’t a real problem where I live.We do have one traffic light.I always take another route and avoid it.Some of our roads are even paved.Sorry about the mess in Atlanta,but I didn’t do it.
Do what??????
February 2nd, 2012
12:25 pm
Wow, looks like Kyle has his hands full today with some of these bloggers.
ByteMe
February 2nd, 2012
12:31 pm
ByteMe do as many Cobb County people go downtown as Atlanta people come to Cobb Cy?
I don’t know. Do you have any facts to show one way or the other? And do you have any facts to relate crime to transit buses in Cobb?
I’m still waiting for facts. Which are facts. Not anecdotes I have to go get from someone else who doesn’t have facts.
Will
February 2nd, 2012
12:44 pm
TSPLOST does not spend money to solve the problems we face every day. I say vote no. Make the leadership fix our problems instead of subsidizing those who think transportation is a way to reengineer our lives.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 2nd, 2012
12:44 pm
Obozo on his dream of higher taxes: “But for me as a Christian, it also coincides with Jesus’s teaching that ‘for unto whom much is given, much shall be required,’
——–
I bet you libtards really wish Obozo would stop trying to force his beliefs on you, eh?
Kyle Wingfield
February 2nd, 2012
12:45 pm
I will never understand why @@ is the target of choice for so much handle-jacking.
Jefferson
February 2nd, 2012
12:49 pm
Face the facts taxes have to be raised, plans need to be made. You can’t just keep all your money and expect things to happen. Look at who’s running the state for answers.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 2nd, 2012
12:49 pm
I was going to make a joke about discussing @@’s imposters and jacking, but that would have been crude.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 2nd, 2012
12:55 pm
“You can’t just keep all your money”
———
^^^ The Democrat credo.
It would be really nice to be able to keep sixty or seventy percent of it. Obozo’s base won’t understand that statement, but the productive class are all nodding in agreement.
Jefferson
February 2nd, 2012
1:05 pm
The problem with know it alls is they don’t know it all.
Don
February 2nd, 2012
1:15 pm
Transit for metro Atlanta isn’t so much a matter of “if and when” as it is “what and how”.
Kyle is right that the focus should be on getting good, functional transit connectivity for the region. New, light rail and bus rapid transit make great projects for the designers and builders of these things, but maybe not so much for congestion relief right now. Doing ancillary commuter rail is by far, the best bang for the buck and it should only take a couple of years to get going, even with the myriad of gov’t regs and required reviews.
Another feature that’s long overdue is zoned fares for MARTA. Even when MARTA is convenient for a trip, the flat fare can be a killer. $2.50 to go the two miles from Arts Center to Five Points to meet a friend for lunch? Really? Or a quick trip from Midtown to Lenox to do some shopping? Compare to BART in SF, which is a lot like MARTA. $1.40 for travel within downtown, $5 to go to the airport (15 miles out). We have had Breeze cards which can do this in place for a couple of years now. What’s taking so long!
Even with all the “stupid” baked into it, I’m still for the T-SPLOST because a half a “stupid” is better than nothing at all.
Don't Tread
February 2nd, 2012
1:21 pm
Teleworking (reducing demand on the existing infrastructure) is the real answer to the problem – not throwing billions more into a corrupt system, and not attempting to force people into lifestyles they don’t want.
ragnar danneskjold
February 2nd, 2012
1:25 pm
Dear Kyle @ 12:45, I can answer. Friend @@ is not only brilliant, she has a wicked sense of humor and clever way with words. Leftists cannot stand to be mocked.
Albert Shelby
February 2nd, 2012
1:36 pm
What is not mentioned in this article or in the comments is the TSPLOST will free up MILLIONS in Federal and State funds to be used for road congestion solutions. That’s money that was going to the list available for the TSPLOST funds.
VOTE YES!!!
Kyle Wingfield
February 2nd, 2012
1:41 pm
Don @ 1:15: I’m with you until that last sentence. File the pressure to pass this tax under “tyranny of the urgent.” We have time to get this right.
Don’t Tread @ 1:21: I agree, there should be much more policy focus on teleworking. If we are going to spend money to address the problem of congestion, we very likely could have much more impact for a fraction of the cost with incentives for people to eliminate their commutes altogether (or, at least, reduce the frequency of their commutes).
Kyle Wingfield
February 2nd, 2012
1:42 pm
Albert Shelby: And what is not mentioned in your reply is that the state DOT, if it wishes, can choose to spend that money on those very same projects with or without the T-SPLOST. Also, that I am not advocating dropping the T-SPLOST altogether, but taking the time to make sure we get it right.
Junior Samples
February 2nd, 2012
2:06 pm
Hey Kyle,
I do understand many of the points you’ve made. But let’s not forget the main reason why Cobb and Gwinnett don’t have Marta rail lines, they don’t want it. They’d rather sit in a traffic jam they created than share the ride with their neighbors on a public train. Sure, they will cite crime as the main reason. But with that same logic they should shut down the on-off ramps on the interstates since I-85 and I-75 are the reason for the drug trafficing they’re dealing with now.
Another reason is short mindedness. They won’t pay now for improvements in the future like DeKalb and Fulton have and do. Marta has incremented further east, west, and north slowly. But not in Cobb and Gwinnett, and that’s their own fault. Let them waste their time and money sitting on asphalt. Clayton should get more attention, but they need to drawup the plans.
So I understand why projects like the Beltline and Clifton corridor get attention and potential funding, the people who live there want it, plans have been made, studies performed, just add water… Sure, it makes sense to modify an intersection here or there to ease conjestion, but it’s a temporary fix. As the past has shown adding more lanes is short term thinking. Even in cities with a larger and far reaching rail options have major traffic problems on their roads.
So it’s time to add a one or two cent tax on transportation and fund whatever projects seem worthwhile, and wanted, from here until we’re all wearing jetpacks. I think the only change to t-splost should be this, either your county wants in or out. Period. In time those that opt out will regret their decision.
@@
February 2nd, 2012
2:15 pm
The chief argument for approving the T-SPLOST in a referendum this year boils down to this: If it fails, what kind of signal will that send to businesses wary of Atlanta’s notorious traffic congestion?
That we’re just not that into ‘em? Funny…Georgia being a red state and all.
Liberals, on the other hand, want rapid transit to “and fro”.
Fickle lovers, they…
ByteMe
February 2nd, 2012
2:17 pm
Fulton and Dekalb should insist that since no one else wants to pay for MARTA, cars entering the two counties should have to pay a toll of $2.50 to use the major highways that pass through those two counties. Wake a few people up!
markie mark
February 2nd, 2012
2:22 pm
I have said this before, but it bears repeating in this blog….my father, who died when I was a child in 1964, used to say to my mother (he was a die hard UGA fan) that every 6 months the GADOT hired the GA Tech engineering graduate with the worst GPA and put him in charge of Atlanta’s roads….after 6 months they fired the poor s.o.b because he was beginning to figure it all out and hired the next worst graduate…..now you have to understand, this was in the 50’s….
In 1983, as a joke, I told that story in a liquor store on South Cobb drive…..(I was a liquor salesman in my 20’s). The clerk behind the counter (in his late 70’s/early 80’s, turned redder, and redder, and…..finally, he exploded and cursed me for all I was worth….turns out he was the #2 in the state road division that was trying to deal with Atlanta’s growth….”young man, we expected a 30% growth rate in the 50’s, and we got 50%+”….he proceeded to “educate” me that no matter what was planned in Atlanta’s growth in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s, the reality exponentially beat the projections….they got behind then, and we have never caught up. I always remember that when this discussion comes up….seems we have had poor road planning for the last 50+ years in this town….
Do what??????
February 2nd, 2012
2:33 pm
“I will never understand why @@ is the target of choice for so much handle-jacking.”
It’s trolls from Bookman’s blog who do this. @@ also had her e-mail hijacked by some crazy idiot from Bookman’s blog.
DawgDad
February 2nd, 2012
2:34 pm
NO – to TSPLOST. The “SPLOSTs” are aptly named (”LOST”) – pointed reminders in each election cycle of how much economic freedom we’ve turned over to politicians, and their endless greed for more.
We ALREADY pay taxes to fund transportation infrastructure expansion and maintenance.
Proposals to expand MARTA rail are pie-eyed fantasy. The core system we have now is economically unsustainable and it provides essentially zero transportation value to the vast majority of taxpayers funding it. So you want to EXPAND the corruption and cost for an almost worthless system? You want to put toll lanes up I-575 instead of relieving traffic? [Don't think for a minute we trust our leaders on this one]. This is LEADERSHIP in government? No, it is not. It is some group of people wanting MY money for THEIR personal benefit. NO!
JohnnyReb
February 2nd, 2012
2:39 pm
ByteMe @ 2:17
The biggest thing against Fulton and Dekalb counties is, they are Fulton and Dekalb Counties.
Dekalb just approved letting county employees purchase appliances through payroll deduction. The leadeship there is hopelessly lost. The only ones that may surpass them is Fulton.
When it comes to Fulton, every municipality of responsibility either has separated themselves or is trying to do so. I hope Milton comes to pass; it will serve Fulton right. The county and ATL won’t get on track until they stop voting in Democrats who only know how to stick out their hand.
What does this have to do with T-SPLOST? Who in surrounding counties their right mind would vote to give their money to Fulton and Dekalb?
GodHatesTrash, Superstar
February 2nd, 2012
2:53 pm
The Perimeter had just opened in 1969, and whites had begun fleeing the city of Atlanta in droves. There were 300,000 white people in the city of Atlanta in 1960. 60,000 left in the late 1960s, and another 100,000 in the 1970s. The white citizens of the City Too Busy To Hate weren’t so busy that they couldn’t move. The population of Cobb almost doubled from 1965 to 1970, and it more than doubled again by 1980. The white separatists/segregationists made sure that MARTA would stop at the county line, as did the folks in Gwinnett.
(MARTA was dimensioned in the early 1970s, when white flight was at its peak. The system was designed not so much for commuters but for people who didn’t have cars – to provide blue-collar labor and domestics for hotels and businesses downtown.
(When gas was $1 a gallon like it was for decades, the stupidity of racism was less expensive, and commuting from Smyrna did not take near as long as commuting from Barrett Parkway or Canton.)
The white flight of the 1970s provided the impetus for suburban development that was most of the time was the fastest in the nation – Cobb and then Gwinnett were always among the fastest growing counties in the US.
I suggest Kevin Kruse’s book White Flight – Atlanta and the Making of Modern Conservatism as some interesting backgrounder for your understanding of MARTA and some of the problems that it has, Kyle. While we generally think of ‘white flight’ as a northern city phenomenon, it happened in Atlanta seemingly overnight, and drastically changed the area. As more and more of Atlanta’s ‘burbs become slurbs and outright slums, residents of the area can’t afford the racism of the oogedy-boogedy crowd any more.
Junior Samples
February 2nd, 2012
2:54 pm
Johnny Reb,
A little history for you. Twice upon a time Sandy Springs left Fulton, then came back on their hands and knees because they couldn’t make it on their own. This is just their latest attempt at ‘independence’. I wish them, and you, luck because I’m tired of this part of history repeating itself.
But just like a child that fails to make it on their own and moves back home, we let you back in… Because you’re still family.
@@
February 2nd, 2012
2:58 pm
HEY!!!!
I will never understand why @@ is the target of choice for so much handle-jacking.
Me either. Did “I” have anything important to say?
schnirt
Back to the topic. Doesn’t an increase in sales tax have a negative impact on the poor?
Yes it does.
I can only imagine how leftists feel about THAT. It’s a dog eat dog world?
@@
February 2nd, 2012
3:05 pm
GHT:
The white citizens of the City Too Busy To Hate weren’t so busy that they couldn’t move.
To hear my black neighbors tell it, they moved out of Atlanta to escape the congestion and crime. Needed room to breath.
I’ll take ‘em at their word if that’s O.K. with you.
@@
February 2nd, 2012
3:35 pm
Romney is a bit clumsy in his delivery. I’m guessin’ it’s the codpiece? O.K….it was taken out of context…but still. The Obama campaign is gonna have a heyday with Romney’s clumsy delivery.
Gingrich has blasted Romney for the remark over the past two days, declaring Wednesday that he is “fed up with politicians in either party dividing Americans against each other.”
It’s more like pigeonholing.
On Thursday, Gingrich said that “we should care about the very poor — unlike Governor Romney. But I believe that we should care differently than Barack Obama. Both Governor Romney and Barack Obama seem to believe that a ’safety net’ is all the poor need. I don’t believe that. What the poor need is a trampoline so they can spring up and quit being poor.”
Excellent!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 2nd, 2012
3:36 pm
Obama Announces 2012 Launch Of “African-Americans For Obama”
Obama, on behalf of his reelection campaign, announces their strategy to court African-American voters, a voting bloc that he heavily secured during his first run. In 2008, Obama received 95% of the black vote. Obama’s campaign statement is below.
Today, we’re announcing the 2012 launch of African Americans for Obama.
———–
Barry Obozo, uniter.
Linda
February 2nd, 2012
3:40 pm
Al Gore has already solved all the traffic problems for the little people: bicycles.
Michael H. Smith
February 2nd, 2012
3:54 pm
Ah “The Grandiose K-Street Historian” getting in a bit of that “right-wing social engineering”, sanctimoniously of course.
@@
February 2nd, 2012
3:59 pm
Liberals joined in attacking Romney’s defense of Catholic hospitals. But that defense did not last long.
The same day the Globe ran its editorial, Romney held a press conference. Now he said his legal counsel had advised him the new emergency contraception law did trump the 1975 conscience law.
“On that basis, I have instructed the Department of Public Health to follow the conclusion of my own legal counsel and to adopt that sounder view,” Romney said. “In my personal view, it’s the right thing for hospitals to provide information and access to emergency contraception to anyone who is a victim of rape.”
http://townhall.com/columnists/terryjeffrey/2012/02/02/creators_oped
So Romney was for it before Obama was!!??!!
Mums the word.
Michael H. Smith
February 2nd, 2012
4:04 pm
Like Gingrich was for Cap and Trade with Pelosi and for Hilary/Obumercare before he was against it!
Just a wee-bit more of that “right-wing social engineering”, sanctimoniously of course.
Michael H. Smith
February 2nd, 2012
4:07 pm
How did the women of Florida vote? Romney 58% to Gingrich 33%
Linda
February 2nd, 2012
4:08 pm
Obama made an oops. 6 members of the Supreme Court are Catholics. The other 3 are Jewish.
@@
February 2nd, 2012
4:23 pm
Howzit goin’, Mikey. I’ve heard tell you’ll eat anything (no sexual innuendo implied).
Like Gingrich was for Cap and Trade with Pelosi and for Hilary/Obumercare before he was against it!
When it comes to financing, the devil’s in the details. Are you privy to those?
Gingrich is no different than Tim Pawlenty and Mike Huckabee…both of whom advocated responsible stewardship.
Gingrich has had plenty of practice responding to complaints about the commercial from the likes of Bill O’Reilly and Rush Limbaugh, who argued on his radio show that the former Georgia congressman had been aiding the “enemy.”
“I’d do a commercial with Al Gore,” Gingrich said last May in an interview with the website Human Events. “My point is conservatives ought to be prepared to stand on the same stage and offer a conservative solution.”
Did he elaborate on those conservative solutions
Maybe he’s become enlightened since Climategate.
Michael H. Smith
February 2nd, 2012
4:25 pm
Oh I’m so broke up over the news about MARTA Kyle, I’ll not sleep a wink tonight – NOT!
@@
February 2nd, 2012
4:31 pm
Mikey:
How did the women of Florida vote? Romney 58% to Gingrich 33%
While I love Florida’s beaches, I’m not impressed with their “female” voters. All women are not the same or haven’t you noticed? Some are more petty than others.
Michael H. Smith
February 2nd, 2012
4:34 pm
Pretty good @@ie
Those old devils do pop-up on Gingrich from “all sides”, especially from the various ones he has taken on the issues! Oh but hey, he learned better, as no one else can, right? YEAH, HOOEY!
The good news is @@ie <strong"The Donald" fired Newt(not exactly executive material) and endorsed Mitt.
Seems The Donald approves of Mitt’s “CONSERVATIVE TRADE POLICIES” et al China Inc.
Well it’s supper time @@ie. Perhaps later….
@@
February 2nd, 2012
4:46 pm
The good news is @@ie <strong
That, I am…strongly independent too!
Hillbilly D
February 2nd, 2012
4:51 pm
All women are not the same or haven’t you noticed?
I know an ol’ boy who thinks it’d be smart to sit this one out. (IW&SH)
TruthBe
February 2nd, 2012
4:53 pm
What about toll road 400? Didn’t these same crooks promoise us that as soon as 400 is paid for the tolls would come down. And it had a sundown law attacted to it that the T-SPLOST abandon, Simpy they broke the contract. Where is the outrage? They can’t be trusted. And that means you Gena Evans.
@@
February 2nd, 2012
4:58 pm
Hillbilly:
I was cleaning out my fireplace this afternoon. Found the remains of a roasted duck. I feel terrible just thinking about his/her demise. I’m waiting for my husband to dispose of the remains (feathers only).
My chimney is capped. How it got in there, I do not know.
Ah pooh!!!!
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
February 2nd, 2012
4:59 pm
I remember my last train ride, it was the Metro in DC, and what I recall the most was the gropers, freaks, perverts and other assorted liberals circling around my family. It wasn’t a bad experience overall because I got to show them my new Beretta PX Storm .45ACP and then watch them slink back into their filthy holes.
You can have your little socialist choo choo.
TruthBe
February 2nd, 2012
5:01 pm
“Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 2nd, 2012
3:36 pm
Obama Announces 2012 Launch Of “African-Americans For Obama”
Obama, on behalf of his reelection campaign, announces their strategy to court African-American voters, a voting bloc that he heavily secured during his first run. In 2008, Obama received 95% of the black vote. Obama’s campaign statement is below.
Today, we’re announcing the 2012 launch of African Americans for Obama.
———–
Barry Obozo, uniter”
Obama and his black only followers are RACIST. Forget the Black vote, they will never get off the Democrats Plantation. Obama was and still is a member of the Black Liberation Theology Racist Pigs. LaRaza is the Latino version of this racist hate groups.
Hillbilly D
February 2nd, 2012
5:01 pm
@@
Your duck burned up but the feathers didn’t??? Oh well, if you can stand the heat, stay outta the fireplace. Goes for ducks, too.
Michael H. Smith
February 2nd, 2012
5:02 pm
Yeah and I’m strongly independently wise enough to know that people like Santorum and Gingrich running for President as religious zealots and anti-abrotionist cannot win the Independent voters approval in this years elections. And among the evangelical, “Values Voters”, as the media likes to call them they won’t vote for a man that has had three wives, I doubt many pagan will either.
Without those “independent voters” that are need to win, obumer gets a second term and the America we knew shall no longer exist. Now go in peace and establish these independent facts @@ie
jm
February 2nd, 2012
5:20 pm
kyle, you’re being too logical
@@
February 2nd, 2012
5:25 pm
Hillbilly:
Your duck burned up but the feathers didn’t???
I don’t know about the duck…that’s why I’m letting my husband dispose of what remains. There may be bones but I don’t wanna see ‘em.
Mikey:
Yeah and I’m strongly independently wise enough to know that people like Santorum and Gingrich running for President as religious zealots and anti-abrotionist cannot win the Independent voters approval in this years elections.
It has more to do with religious freedoms than it does abortions. People should be free to practice their religious beliefs without interference from the government.
Would you prefer Romney/Obama serve as your conscience?
@@
February 2nd, 2012
5:27 pm
…or a bill. I sure don’t wanna see a bill!!??!!
Linda
February 2nd, 2012
5:34 pm
@@ @ 4:58, If you were indeed “strongly” independent, you would haul the shop vac into your den/living room, make hocus pocus & let hubby try to figure out how duck feathers got into the shop vac. Sounds like you have a cat.
BTW, was it wearing white trim? Seems strange barely a month after Christmas.
@@
February 2nd, 2012
5:57 pm
Linda:
No cat.
The shop vac spews leftovers into the house.
If I were to go scooping in the area of the duck and something shifted, ashes would fly everywhere. No need to create a mess I’d have to clean up.
I’ve thoroughly thought this through. Dead and/or gorey is best left to him.
Linda
February 2nd, 2012
6:26 pm
@@ Everyone needs at least one cat. I’ll be glad to help you out. What color is your carpet, your sofa, your dining room chair seats & your bedspread?
Clean the shop vac filter. Put the shop vac in a big plastic bag, just for a couple of minutes.
Close your eyes.
No one creates more messes than men.
Install a wood-burning stove. Watch your meter reader have a stroke.
Hillbilly D
February 2nd, 2012
6:36 pm
Everyone needs at least one cat.
Somebody can have two cause my thoughts on cats are well known.
@@
February 2nd, 2012
6:43 pm
Linda:
I’ve owned more cats than I care to mention. Last one I encountered (not mine) was missing it’s back end…devoured by sump’n. Found it in the shrub bed.
ICK & Peeeeeee EW!!!!
No one creates more messes than men.
So true! Be not concerned…I’ll supervise from a distance.
@@
February 2nd, 2012
6:48 pm
Something for Mikey to chew on. An after dinner mint?
Newt Rips Gore’s ‘Facts’ To Pieces.
Linda
February 2nd, 2012
7:27 pm
Hillbilly, Your thoughts on cats on not well-known over here on this blog. Don’t tell me you don’t want them to bring their prey to your door.
BTW, do you have fire ants where you live?
bu2
February 2nd, 2012
7:36 pm
Fred and Grasshopper hit it on the head. The freeways were stopped by neighborhood activists and the arterials haven’t been thought of at all. For those who think nothing could be done, you should have seen what Dallas and Houston have done over the last 30 years while growing faster than Atlanta. There was a transportation official quoted a couple of years back talking about Atlanta’s arterial roads-a bunch of two lane winding country roads with no left turn lanes.
@Prisca-none of this TSPLOST will do anything for your problem. Fulton and Dekalb are hardly spending anything on improving the arterial roads. They dumped a plan that was in early on to improve Briarcliff. And unless the leaders manage to kill growth with their horrible transportation planning, there will be more cars. Only 4% are riding the rails now. The Beltline goes through lightly populated areas and occupies already busy streets with light rail (i.e. ultra expensive buses).
Actually Dumb and dumber had a point, even though I disagree with much of what he said. TSPLOST does look like something designed by a congressional committee.
bu2
February 2nd, 2012
7:38 pm
Kyle, I will disagree on the Clifton corridor. Despite MARTA, Atlanta was rated 90th out of 100 on transit accessibility. It was partly because major employment centers like Emory and Cumberland Mall were not connected. What might work would be using ROW adjacent to 285 to expand MARTA from Cumberland Mall to Doraville as you suggest, and then run it down to Lindberg and down the Clifton corridor.
Ickashae
February 2nd, 2012
8:04 pm
We should’ve started spreading lots more pavement years ago. We are now so far behind the road building/widening curve that we may never catch up.
Metro Atlanta is inextricably wedded to cars and everyone knows it. We just linger in denial when we throw $ at the marginal stuff like reversible toll lanes and MARTA that we hope will save us.
Rafe Hollister
February 2nd, 2012
8:28 pm
Delay the vote until after the presidential election. If Oblamer is reelected, the congestion will solve itself, as we have enough roads already for the USPS to use to deliver our govt checks.
Hillbilly D
February 2nd, 2012
8:32 pm
The only way I want a cat to bring prey (or any thing else for that matter) to my door, is if the prey is another cat. I was talking to my neighbor once and a cat came walking through his yard. He asked if it was my cat and I said, “No and if you ever see me with a cat, go ahead and shoot me in the head “.
And yes, we have fire ants here, unfortunately. We also have coyotes and kudzu here and they shouldn’t be here either.
@@
February 2nd, 2012
8:37 pm
It wasn’t a duck…it was a crispy magazine. Looked like a duck to me. A “Ducks Unlimited” magazine?
(ISH)
Hillbilly D
February 2nd, 2012
8:43 pm
@@
But what about the feathers?
Hillbilly D
February 2nd, 2012
8:44 pm
http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/birds/duckdist/index.htm
(IW&SH)
@@
February 2nd, 2012
8:54 pm
What can I say?
It jumped off the pages. So life-like-dead, it was.
GodHatesTrash, Superstar
February 2nd, 2012
9:04 pm
**, you hear what you want to hear. The facts are the facts, even if they don’t fit your idiotology.
(My guess is your black neighbors are being nice to you – they don’t want you to burn a cross on their lawn.)
((Read Breakfast of Champions by Kurt Vonnegut – you’ll see where I get the ** for you from.))
@@
February 2nd, 2012
9:20 pm
Awkward.
WASHINGTON – A Detroit-area law firm that represents mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in foreclosure and eviction cases contributed $200,000 to a super PAC supporting Republican Mitt Romney for president.
That super PAC, Restore Our Future, has run ads against rival Newt Gingrich attacking his ties to Freddie Mac and accusing him of “cashing in” on the foreclosure crisis.
“David Trott, either through Trott & Trott or individually, has a complete monopoly on everything that goes on post-foreclosure on someone’s home,” said Steve Dibert of MFI-Miami, who works as a mortgage investigator for homeowners in foreclosure.
Trott owns Attorneys Title, which researches and files deeds, the Detroit Legal News, which publishes the legally required foreclosure notices, and Trott Recovery Services, which manages abandoned properties for banks.
“At each step of the way, there’s a cha-ching that can be heard at Trott & Trott headquarters,” said Oakland County, Mich., Treasurer Andy Meisner, a Democrat. “Not only are they making money hand over fist at people’s misfortune, but it’s more than that. Now they’re taking a leading role in electing politicians that will see things their way.”–USAToday
Mitt Romney’s Intriguing Comments on Foreclosures and Strategic Defaults
A heyday, I tell ‘ya.
Mitt carries old AND new baggage. Mr. Baggy Pants.
schnirt
Michael H. Smith
February 2nd, 2012
9:43 pm
@@ie
If you have to lie by attempting to call or identify Romney and Obama as one and the same, then tie me into that assertion, I doubt you have a conscience to exercise. Which is becoming very obvious thanks to your use of your personal attacks on me when I’m getting the better of your boy, Leroy.
Goodnight @@ie
@@
February 2nd, 2012
10:23 pm
GHT:
(My guess is your black neighbors are being nice to you – they don’t want you to burn a cross on their lawn.)
Nope! It’s because I’m likeable, as are they.
Hey! You wouldn’t be my namejacker, would you?
Michael:
When I decide to attack you personally, you’ll know it. There will be no doubt as to my intentions.
You’re being overly sensitive. Now go powder your nose.
schnirt
@@
February 2nd, 2012
10:30 pm
Slanties galore!
@@
February 2nd, 2012
10:58 pm
GHT:
Before I go…I’m familiar with Mr. Vonnegut. His breakfast consists of people like you AND I.
I dare say Nietzsche would have Vonnegut for breakfast.
Rlewis
February 2nd, 2012
11:14 pm
The likelihood of federal transit funds for new transit expansion is not assured. It is speculation based on past federal transportation funding not a rational review of fed budget.
ld
February 3rd, 2012
1:36 am
better planned parking could equal less in town congestion
close x# of blocks to traffic and put parking at each of the four corners of the area closed to traffic
yeah, tha’d likely not be practical–it require shutting down parts of Atlanta to build it
but parts of downtown are so ugly it needs to be torn down and rebuilt anyway
ld
February 3rd, 2012
1:39 am
The roads into Atlanta are congested because they hit the traffic ‘bottleneck’ that is Atlanta.
Will Still Need Outer Perimeter
February 3rd, 2012
6:01 am
We still will need a outer perimeter or western bypass.
Will Still Need Outer Perimeter
February 3rd, 2012
6:04 am
Sorry, should have been “an” outer perimeter or western bypass in previous post.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
February 3rd, 2012
8:47 am
“Strongly independent”?
Two words that don’t belong together. “Independent” is just a tiny bit better than “moderate” on the Gutlessness Scale.
clyde
February 3rd, 2012
9:10 am
It takes guts to vote straight ticket?????Wasn’t aware of that fact.I always was under the impression that Independents had to weigh all the variables before they voted;actually think,you know,whereas the rest of you just have your party do all your thinking.
Dumb and Dumber
February 3rd, 2012
9:31 am
Kyle — there has been development along existing MARTA lines. Compared to when I first moved her in the 80’s there is significant development around MARTA stations. Take off you partisan blinders for a nano-second and talk to people who have actually lived here, in-town, since the 80’s.
Its easy for you to live in the burbs, drive your car to your suburban office and crtiticize those who choose (or have not choice but to) ride transit.
But if you were to do actually talk to people who use MARTA, you might actually realize there is a benefit to mass transit in a large metropolitan area, and that would not fit your worldview, would it?
Do what??????
February 3rd, 2012
9:36 am
@@
I’m starting to think Obama will win in November. Mitt, like every other GOP moderate, will lose simply because moderates don’t win in the GOP. You’d think after the Mccain debacle they’d learn their lesson. It’s always the “next in line” with the GOP. I guess in 2016 Newt will be the nominee?
What a mess.
bu2
February 3rd, 2012
10:57 am
Building lots of light rail lines and hoping people come will just bankrupt the system. Atlanta is NOT dense. Sprawling Houston’s 500+ miles has twice the population of Fulton County in a similar area. The City of Houston has 50% more density than the much smaller city of Atlanta. The neighborhoods will not allow a bunch of zoning changes with lots of apartments in Morningside, Virginia Highlands and Grant Park, so the beltline will go through a single family residential area that cannot support a rail line. The leaders pushing this have drunk the Kool-Aid and are delusional. And the fact is that the current arterial system in Fulton and Dekalb can’t support much more density. New population is not going to suddenly be 100% transit riders. Density will bring more cars which need more roads, not just transit.
Mass transit can work, but its got to be based on smart decisions, not just developer bailouts.
Bryan -- MARTA supporter
February 3rd, 2012
11:02 am
The three transit projects that are mention are well worth the money and should have been built years ago. Along with frequency of service, another major issue is people coming into the city and not having options to travel around once ITP. Most people are going to prefer rail transit over bus transit, even if the bus service is rapid. The Clifton line, Cumberland line, and Beltline offer those options. Add the I-285 line and the Turner Field/I-20 line and there would be great options for ITP rail options. You could now have shorter, more frequent, and more direct bus service.
The problems that Cobb and Gwinnett (even Clayton) is that they 1)decided not to join MARTA when there was an obvious vision for a better rail service and bus service for those counties and 2) understand that even if all 3 counties join MARTA today that they would still basically only have rail service that follows the interstates and brings you into the city. Cobb would have the I-75 line and Gwinnett the I-85 line. There maybe 2 lines if you include possible commuter rail to compliment the heavy rail extensions. The same with Clayton. They would have the Macon commuter line and probably just a heavy rail extension to Jonesboro.
It still boils down to the lack of vision of these areas. Most of the transit would have been built already and the T-SPLOST could have focus on other projects that would have made rail transit even more dense within the city and adding more commuter service to areas OTP. Instead we have the current T-SPLOST that has to start from scratch and no one wants to start it. That puts us back in the same boat, everyone complaining and wanting new options but no one doing anything about it.
Bryan -- MARTA supporter
February 3rd, 2012
11:33 am
@ Junior Samples February 2nd, 2012 2:06 pm
COMPLETELY AGREE!!
But what is funny is that the same people that complain and say MARTA is currect and that Fulton/Dekalb only want handouts are the same people stuck in traffic complaining, make every excuse on why they don’t want transit and offer no options, other than expanding the highways to 20 lanes in each direction with 10 more that are reversable. We have see the great impact that expanding roads has gotten the region.
bu2
February 3rd, 2012
4:10 pm
@Bryan
There hasn’t been road expanding. They opened a new exit ramp last month that was the first expansion in the Atlanta metro area in nearly 20 years. Atlanta has done nothing for a very long time. Of course, they haven’t done anything on transit either in a very long time.