Too often, the only security regulators provide is a false one
If you haven’t read the investigative piece about day-care safety reports hidden from the public, printed in Sunday’s AJC and available online, you really should do so. Among other things, it’s a reminder that government oversight of an industry often creates nothing more than a false sense of security for that industry’s customers.
Day cares in Georgia (and most other states, I’d be willing to bet) must have a state-issued license in order to operate. It has to be renewed annually. A parents might inspect the day care personally before enrolling Junior there. But it would be typical, and reasonable, for a parent to assume the day care meets certain minimum standards if its license was granted and later renewed.
Instead, the AJC investigation found, more than a third of the day cares in Georgia had been deemed — by state regulators — out of compliance with state health and safety standards at least once in the past four years. The vast majority of them, even those with multiple years of non-compliance, were allowed to stay open.
Yet, the state did not publicly release the reports detailing these businesses’ shortcomings. (The AJC obtained them through an open records request.)
While some of these failures might be on minor points, some of them seem pretty major to this parent, including failure by some day cares to run background checks on people before hiring them. That’s a pretty basic thing: Even my relatively small church runs background checks before letting parents volunteer in the children’s ministry.
So, the state requires a license for a day care to operate and checks up on day cares to make sure they are complying with state laws — but then doesn’t close down the worst offenders and doesn’t tell parents about the problems so that they can decide for themselves.
That’s the same kind of false security that played out in the recent financial meltdown. One doesn’t have to get into the merits of repealing Glass-Steagall restrictions or passing the Community Reinvestment Act to recognize that banks’ risk was artificially and irresonsibly heightened because of faulty ratings of the mortgage-backed securities and a flawed international regulatory regime (Basel II), which not only allowed but incentivized banks to load up on these riskier-than-believed investments.
The old line still applies: Caveat emptor. And you’ll be more likely to follow it if you also heed the warning against believing government can regulate and monitor the risks or problems out of life.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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209 comments Add your comment
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
10:01 am
Less government, less regulations = Bigger economy.
saywhat?
January 23rd, 2012
10:11 am
How would the AJC have obtained this information if the regulators hadn’t collected it in the first place? Rather than make the case for getting rid of regulators, you have made the case for a vigilant press.
that's goofy
January 23rd, 2012
10:13 am
Less regulation = 1929.
carlosgvv
January 23rd, 2012
10:15 am
If you want to understand this, just go to the Capital and meet all the day-care industry lobbyists. Money talks.
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
10:20 am
that’s goofy…..More Regulation = Germany 1942
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
10:23 am
When those who are anti-regulation persist in CUTTING the enforcement mechanism for regulation, the results are obvious!! Like the banking industry where regulation enforcement was CUT, Republican governments have cut the enforcement arm, thereby allowing day care centers to operate without fear of inspeections.
What needs to be done is both a strengthening of current regulation and strict ENFORCEMENT!! We have to expand the enforcement arm so that the public is made aware of the problems in day care….and that those who do not abide are CLOSED!!
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
10:25 am
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
10:20 am
More regulation = USA 1955 = growth of the MIDDLE CLASS!!
Remember – Eisenhower warned us of the “military-industrial complex”……………
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
10:26 am
HDB….and Hitler showed us what happens when you give too much control to the government over the free market.
Would you want the government tell your business how to operate?
Road Scholar
January 23rd, 2012
10:27 am
HDB: Right on!
Dr. Pangloss
January 23rd, 2012
10:31 am
“The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. The Republicans are the party that says government doesn’t work and then they get elected and prove it”–P.J. O’Rourke.
Georgia looks like a shining example.
Dr. Pangloss
January 23rd, 2012
10:32 am
BTW, the government, in various ways, has made me smarter and richer. I don’t know about taller, and I never had crabgrass.
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
10:33 am
“Republican governments ”
What in the world is a Republican government?
JDW
January 23rd, 2012
10:36 am
@Kyle…”So, the state requires a license for a day care to operate and checks up on day cares to make sure they are complying with state laws — but then doesn’t close down the worst offenders and doesn’t tell parents about the problems so that they can decide for themselves.
That’s the same kind of false security that played out in the recent financial meltdown.”
What you conveniently ignore is the that the failure is not so much of the regulations but more so the poor enforcement of them…by Republican led governments in both cases.
Sounds like a clear case of self-fulfilling prophesies to me…
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
10:41 am
JDW…..”republican led governments in both cases”? Rose colored lenses eh?
Don't Tread
January 23rd, 2012
10:42 am
There are still some people who think the police can protect them at all times. The same principle applies.
Similarly, restaurant inspection “grades” posted on the walls should be taken with a grain of salt. The restaurants know approximately, if not exactly, when the health inspector is coming.
The best protection is self-protection in many cases.
Aquagirl
January 23rd, 2012
10:45 am
How would the AJC have obtained this information if the regulators hadn’t collected it in the first place? Rather than make the case for getting rid of regulators, you have made the case for a vigilant press.
Hahahaha! Touché! This article boils down to “Why Isn’t The Gub’ment Doing More?” To be followed by tomorrow’s article “Let’s Reduce Government So We Can Drown It In The Bathtub.”
Republicans: the party of schizophrenics everywhere.
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
10:56 am
Aquagirl…..Democrats: the party of moochers, beggers and theives.
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
10:57 am
“by Republican led governments in both cases.”
Yeah, that’s it.
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
10:58 am
“Republicans: the party of schizophrenics everywhere.”
There’s your sign.
Somali Republican
January 23rd, 2012
11:00 am
Regulation cannot help you get rich. You only get rich by taking what you want. Our Pirate jobs program proves that the free market works.
Bart Abel
January 23rd, 2012
11:01 am
This piece reminds me of the Bush administration. Republicans claim government doesn’t work. Then when they’re in charge, they hire and appoint anti-regulation incompetents who either don’t know how or don’t care to enforce the law. Then when these incompetents inevitably screw up, the Republican response is, “See? We told you regulation doesn’t work.”
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
11:04 am
Bart…because it doesnt.
Aquagirl
January 23rd, 2012
11:14 am
Democrats:the party of moochers, beggers and theives(sic)
ORLY? Let’s look at part of Kyle’s pet peeve of the day, Georgia’s Child Care Services, which licenses child care workers. The 2011 budget was $7,832,597. Out of that, 6,642,746 was FEDERAL funding.
Sounds like our thoroughly Republican government isn’t doing enough leeching for Kyle’s taste.
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
11:17 am
Aquagirl…..thoroughly republican government…hmmmm and all this time I thought Hussein was a Democrat….Who knew?!?!
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
11:19 am
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
10:26 am
….and in the Bush Years, when government allows the free market to run amok…..the market COLLAPSES…because it CAN NOT POLICE ITSELF!! Republicans: the party of moochers, beggers and thieves…better known as market subsidies, unbridled tax breaks, offshore tax havens…..
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
11:22 am
HDB…..TYPICAL democrat response “in the bush years”…..I hope and pray Obama says the words during a debate! Please do it!
JF McNamara
January 23rd, 2012
11:23 am
My wife and I had no problems finding information about our daycares. We eliminated daycares based on the reports, and we also did our own inspection. We thought the process was good if you do the research.
The recent financial meltdown was a result of NO regulation, not over regulation. There was NO regulation of credit default swaps, and any attempt to regulate them was shot down by Republicans. Glass Steagall eliminated many of the regulations on investment banks allowing them to merge with commerical banks and run up their leverage ratios. That’s what caused the real problem.
We couldn’t allow the investment banks to go out of business because they would take down commercial banking because we removed Glass Steagall. If we had kept Glass Steagall in place, the failing of investment banks (or rating agencies) would not have mattered.
St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia
January 23rd, 2012
11:25 am
Let’s see, cut the funding and enforcement of regulations,
then point to the regulations as the problem.
God, how do cons remember to eat food and breathe every day
Aquagirl
January 23rd, 2012
11:26 am
Aaaaand once again, UGA 1999 embarrasses his alma mater by thinking “Hussein” is running our state government.
Of course when you’re crouching in your trailer with a shotgun, everybody looks like one of them evil Revenooers a-comin’ to bust up your still.
that's goofy
January 23rd, 2012
11:27 am
Not a Republican / Democrat issue. Following the 1929 collapse regulation was put in place to protect against severe market shifts. Over the last 30-40 years those regulations were slowly removed. The idea that financial institutions is as absurd as believing children don’t require supervision.
Corporations operate in their own best interest with profit as the bottom line. The recent collapse and bail outs of Wall Street and banks is evidence.
that's goofy
January 23rd, 2012
11:31 am
UGA1999 : “More Regulation = Germany 1942″
Is that an automatic response anytime the government is involved? Is it possible there can be government regulation without the US turning in to Nazi Germany? We have the Patriot Act and as far as I know we are still a democracy.
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
11:32 am
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
11:22 am
FACTUAL response “in the bush years”…..
The more you attempt to marginalize it doesn’t erase the fact that the actions of each Administration will be based on the preceeding Administration….and the Bush Administration was the FIRST to finance a war (let alone TWO!) on BORROWED money….and presided over the near-collapse of the American economy!! When you put anti-regulation personnel in the government…which causes enforcement to decline….and then the economy collapses because of LACK OF ENFORCEMENT…it’s obvious as to whom should get the blame….the person who PUT THEM IN THE POSITION!!
“You’re doing a nice job, Brownie………”
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
11:33 am
HDB…so if you are going to hold Bush accountable for the Obama years then….Bush senior should get credit for the Clinton years?
How about Dodd / Frank….did they share in any responsiblity?
jconservative
January 23rd, 2012
11:33 am
“Would you want the government tell your business how to operate?”
Would you want the government to tell your daughter how to live her life?
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
11:36 am
Jconservative….if it meant protecting my grandson/granddaughter….YES…..
She would have MUCH better morals than to kill an innocent baby!
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
11:41 am
“and in the Bush Years, when government allows the free market to run amok…..the market COLLAPSES”
Fannie and Freddie. Both run by ex-Democrat senators.
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
11:42 am
“The more you attempt to marginalize”
You do this on an hourly basis, HDB.
JDW
January 23rd, 2012
11:42 am
@UGA 1999…”republican led governments in both cases”? Rose colored lenses eh?”
They weren’t? Facts are facts, face them.
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
11:42 am
“We have the Patriot Act and as far as I know we are still a democracy.”
???????????
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
11:43 am
“They weren’t? Facts are facts, face them.”
Keep whining like a little girl, JDW.
Aquagirl
January 23rd, 2012
11:45 am
How about Dodd / Frank….did they share in any responsiblity?(sic)
Dodd/Frank? I thought Hussein was responsible for everything. Make up your mind, son.
Puck
January 23rd, 2012
11:46 am
So, say the government did what you wanted and either closed or posted the warnings about all of these day care centers. You will find yourself with a bunch of parents who either have no place to put their kids (in the cases where the daycare centers were closed) or scrambling to find new daycare center (after they pulled their kids out of the one with bad reviews). The end result? An awful lot of people missing work because they no longer have a place to drop off their kids, which would make a lot businesses very unhappy.
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
11:47 am
Aquagirl….He is! They were just contributors to the mess.
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
11:49 am
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
11:42 am
Conservatives tend to marginalize MY experience more than I do yours…….. and that is on an hourly basis — done DAILY!!
I’m not the one supporting discriminating legislation……..as most conservatives are doing!!
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
11:33 am
Clinton corrected the Bush shortcomings……but if you wish to start looking at blame, I’d start with Phil Gramm……Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act which repealed Glass-Stegall…….one of Clinton’s biggest mistakes was SIGNING that bill….but it was a REPUBLICAN idea….and look where it got us!!!
Inside Out
January 23rd, 2012
11:56 am
“She would have MUCH better morals”
Kinda like your Boy Newt, huh UGA????
Aquagirl
January 23rd, 2012
11:58 am
They were just contributors to the mess.
Along with Roy Barnes, no doubt.
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
12:07 pm
Inside Out —-YEP!
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
12:07 pm
Aquagirl….Tell me how Roy Barnes contributed to the housing mess.
Matt
January 23rd, 2012
12:11 pm
Kyle – I’m sure you are wrong.
“Yet, the state did not publicly release the reports detailing these businesses’ shortcomings.”
http://decal.ga.gov/ProviderSearch/SiteSearch.aspx?childcare=y&newsearch=y
The state agency that regulates child care puts every detailed inspection report on its website. I’ve used them myself. What apparently isn’t provided is the final designation of compliant vs. non-compliant, which has been used for one year. I would rather see the details myself.
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
12:11 pm
“Conservatives tend to marginalize MY experience more than I do yours”
Stop lying.
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
12:13 pm
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
10:26 am
“Would you want the government tell your business how to operate?”
jconservative asked you this: “Would you want the government to tell your daughter how to live her life?” I’m going to expand on this even further:
Would you want the government to tell you what you CAN eat…where you can live….whom you can marry…..how many children to have…….?”"
There are a myriad of issues that government has NO business getting into….but conservatives want the government to get into issues that only THEY approve of (marriage, abortion, discrimination…..)but not what the nation NEEDS (banking/environmental/business regulation……)
The question I ask this this: What is it that you REALLY want…a return to the 50s….or should we work on making the PRESENT better for EVERYONE???
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 23rd, 2012
12:14 pm
jconservative: Would you want the government to tell your daughter how to live her life?
———
So you have a problem with the government telling your daughter she can’t murder the child next door, or dump toxic chemicals into our drinking water?
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
12:17 pm
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
12:11 pm
“Stop lying….”
No need to lie to you……my experiences are different from your simply because we are TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE!! The problem is that many on this blog HAVE attempted to marginalize and demonize my experiences……and the attempts speak volumes!!
As Bruce Hornsby said: “That’s just the way it is…….some things never change…..!”
Aquagirl
January 23rd, 2012
12:18 pm
Tell me how Roy Barnes contributed to the housing mess.
I knew that would swoosh right over your head.
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
12:19 pm
HDB….Make it better for everyone??? That is impossible.
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
12:20 pm
Aquagirl….you are right your ignorant posts make no sense. Thanks for proving my point.
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
12:20 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 23rd, 2012
12:14 pm
“So you have a problem with the government telling your daughter she can’t murder the child next door, or dump toxic chemicals into our drinking water?”
So….are YOU saying that you’re FOR environmental regulations?? Did you have an epiphany??
Lest you forget….it MAY be against the law to murder…but no one can STOP you from murdering someone. The main deal is that one has to pay the CONSEQUENCES for his actions in the case of criminal activity!!
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
12:21 pm
“The problem is that many on this blog HAVE attempted to marginalize and demonize my experiences”
No one on this blog or any other even knows who you are. No one has seen your resume.
Again, get over yourself and stop lying.
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
12:23 pm
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
12:19 pm
“HDB….Make it better for everyone??? That is impossible.”
I don’t think it is……
“Some people see things as they are and ask ‘Why?’; I dream of things that never were and ask ‘Why NOT?’” — George Bernard Shaw
Ronnie Raygun
January 23rd, 2012
12:25 pm
Kyle, You point out some brilliant shortcomings in government regulation, but then spin off he road and into a ditch by claiming that calls for less government regulation.
What the problem is, and even you complain about it, is the fact that there were no consequences for unsafe day cares. You even ask why these unsafe day cares are allowed to stay open. Wouldn’t the solution be to start putting some teeth into these regulations so that unsafe day cares are shut down or fined?
Sorry Kyle, but you no one to blame for this but your fellow conservatives. They have been pulling the teeth out of the enforcement of every business regulation for over 20 years.Somehow the conservative mindset seems to be that and penalty on business is unnecessary, the “markets” will solve everything. Sure a few more children will be killed or kidnapped every year, but as long as businesses aren’t burdened by regulations, everything is fine, right?
Don't Tread
January 23rd, 2012
12:25 pm
“should we work on making the PRESENT better for EVERYONE???”
Your departure would be a good first step. Bookman needs to jack up his post count.
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
12:26 pm
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
12:21 pm
Don’t have to lie……I HAVE revealed much of myself here…and HAVE been marginalized by many here!! Just because you choose not to believe doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen!!
Is your mind so closed that you can not see others’ experiences as unique, personal…and factual?? The gist of the conservative mind……………
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 23rd, 2012
12:28 pm
Libtards are so weak of mind–they can’t discern between Big Government and anarchy. Must be all that publik skoolin’.
Don't Tread
January 23rd, 2012
12:28 pm
Some blog software that ignores the “caps lock” key would be another good step.
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
12:29 pm
Don’t Tread
January 23rd, 2012
12:25 pm
I’m on BOTH……I like to learn BOTH sides of an argument so that I can make an informed decision…..unlike many here…….
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
January 23rd, 2012
12:30 pm
How about actual repercussions for not following the regulations.
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
12:31 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 23rd, 2012
12:28 pm
Conservatives are so weak of mind–they can’t discern between anarchy, tyranny, and necessary governmental control. Must be all that lack of public exposure and animus towards those unlike them…..
It goes that way too, you know…….
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
12:31 pm
“Don’t have to lie……I HAVE revealed much of myself here…and HAVE been marginalized by many here!! Just because you choose not to believe doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen!!
Sounds like you need some self-esteem and a life, HDB. If you let some faceless blogger get under your skin….
“Is your mind so closed that you can not see others’ experiences as unique, personal…and factual?? The gist of the conservative mind……………”
Ok, you have this problem with “assuming” things about other people. You also are a hyper-partisan person who needs to get a life.
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
12:32 pm
“I like to learn BOTH sides of an argument so that I can make an informed decision…..unlike many here…….”
You have very low self-esteem. Your comments prove it.
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
12:32 pm
“Conservatives are so weak of mind”
I rest my case.
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
12:33 pm
HDB….I like your optimism, but we cannot even all get along on a pointless blog. What makes you think that ANYTHING the government does would make everyone happy?
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
12:34 pm
“Your departure would be a good first step. Bookman needs to jack up his post count.”
Bookman would love HDB and his low self-esteem. It would fit in well with all the other left wingers.
Dusty
January 23rd, 2012
12:34 pm
Silly people! You sit here all morning doing nothing but trying to outdo and dooodle another blogger. Could you refrain long enough to make some sensible suggestions?
Republicans want efficient and sensible government, including minimal regulations. That is for state or national
Republicans realize that in this world, no regulator can watch something 24/7 what with changes in weather, employees, parents, children, costs, inferior products, etc.
Republicans wish parents to be RESPONSIBLE for their children and the choices they make for them. They are the major caretakers and not regulators. They should be making their own inspections.
The best choice of all is to take care of your own children. Perhaps you could do without some “fun things” as your children are the most important “thing”. If that is not possible, consider your children as precious gold. That might help you make decisions.
Now make your own suggestions, bloggers. Got any new ideas?
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
12:35 pm
“.I like your optimism, but we cannot even all get along on a pointless blog.”
Probably has something to do with his “victim card mentality.”
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
12:35 pm
“You sit here all morning doing nothing but trying to outdo and dooodle another blogger.”
It’s fun.
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
12:36 pm
“Republicans want efficient and sensible government, including minimal regulations. ”
Some do, some don’t. The ones that don’t include the likes of John Mccain.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 23rd, 2012
12:36 pm
HDB: It goes that way too, you know…….
—-
Actually, it doesn’t. When a libtard hears a conservative criticize government regulation, they essentially accuse them of wanting anarchy, as jconservative did. When a conservative hears a libtard criticizing government regulation, they cheer and start to think there might be hope for America after all!
ragnar danneskjold
January 23rd, 2012
12:42 pm
Agree, exactly right. We are in a regulatory recession now.
MarkV
January 23rd, 2012
12:43 pm
Kyle,
What you are doing in this article is a common, but flawed practice. You point out deficiencies of something, in this case particular regulations. Ok, you are probably right there. But then you generalize: “And you’ll be more likely to follow it if you also heed the warning against believing government can regulate and monitor the risks or problems out of life. “ What do you mean by that? Who claims that any regulation eliminates completely any risk or problem (“out of life”)? (Incidentally, I am not sure what you mean by monitoring risk out of life, which is what you statement says.) Are you saying that no regulation does anything to risks and problems?
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
12:43 pm
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
12:31 pm
Have GREAT self-esteem; I love a good debate……..and I’m FAR from being a victim!!!
Far from being hyper-partisan….but I have yet to find a reason to vote FOR the GOP!!
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
12:33 pm
“HDB….I like your optimism, but we cannot even all get along on a pointless blog. What makes you think that ANYTHING the government does would make everyone happy?”
“A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step” – Confucius.
I can see the increments that the government has done to try to make things better for everyone….but people are prone to resist change….in some cases, violently!! We must find a way to get past the resistance…..and get closer to the truth!! In some cases, the liberal/progressive paradigm has the answers; in others, the conservative; and in others, a hybrid of the two……..
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
12:46 pm
“Far from being hyper-partisan….but I have yet to find a reason to vote FOR the GOP!!
No, you’re hyper-partisan.
With that said, I’m doing arguing with you about you.
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
12:46 pm
“So, the state requires a license for a day care to operate and checks up on day cares to make sure they are complying with state laws — but then doesn’t close down the worst offenders and doesn’t tell parents about the problems so that they can decide for themselves.”
That’s usually what happens with any government run program.
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
12:49 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 23rd, 2012
12:36 pm
LBB, I’ve always desired EFFECTIVE government…..government that works in the best interests of the people. In order to do so, a regulated marketplace is required so that it works for ALL pople. Are there regulations that go too far?? Yes. Are there regulations that need to be removed? In some cases, YES! Does an UNREGULATED market work?? NO!! We’ve seen what happens when an unregulated/unenforced market goes amok…..note the financial near-collapse!!
From my observations, conservatives wis to remove ALL regulations and let laissez-fare economics be the rule….but we all know that that won’t work! It’s the regulations that keep the market VIABLE for all…….
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
12:54 pm
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
12:46 pm
I’m not arguing…..I’m INFORMING!! Your assumptions are based on a false premise……
At one time, there were GOPers that I could see myself voting FOR…but the present breed of GOP doesn’t know that people like me are CONSTITUENTS!!
“So, the state requires a license for a day care to operate and checks up on day cares to make sure they are complying with state laws — but then doesn’t close down the worst offenders and doesn’t tell parents about the problems so that they can decide for themselves.”
“That’s usually what happens with any government run program.”
That’s what happens when the investigative and enforcement arms of government are CUT by the idea of de-regulation!! How can one close a bad child care center if the can not investigate and enforce statutes?? How can the pertinent data be given to parents so that an informed decision can be made?? If they can do the same thing for food inspections, they can do the same thing in day care centers…………….
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 23rd, 2012
1:06 pm
From my observations, conservatives wis to remove ALL regulations
———
See, there you go again.
MarkV
January 23rd, 2012
1:14 pm
Dusty January 22nd, 2012 @11:07 pm. 11:17 pm
Dusty,
You should try to read into my words something mysterious. When I wrote “I do not have a dog in this fight,” I meant simply that in this Republication nomination struggle I do not favor anybody, because I do not find any of them suitable for replacing Obama. And when I added “Not yet,” it was the reference to the obvious fact that when the Republicans chose their candidate, it will be him against Obama, and I will have “a dog in the fight.”
You think I am worried about the next election? Of course I am. This could be a long discussion, but let me give you just a simple illustration. Many commentators have agreed, and I cannot dispute it, that if the economy keeps improving here, as the signs show it might, Obama will have a good chance of being reelected. One thing that could sink the economy here would be a financial collapse in Europe. There is, however, very little what Obama can do about Europe. Thus Obama might lose because of something that is not his doing. Who on his side would not worry?
“Perhaps you would like to tell me why you have such confidence in Obama. You haven’t said so directly but most obviously you do not like Republicans.”
I can say it directly, I do not like Republicans, if by “Republicans” you mean the current party and its actions in Congress, or the current candidates. (I can easily like a particular person who is a Republican.) As I indicated by my “dog in the fight” comment, I mostly refrain from commenting on their relative strengths and weaknesses, except when I watch or hear something particularly notable.
Why I have such a confidence in Obama? I suppose you mean why I prefer Obama. That would be too much to add to this post, but I will be glad to tell you later. But be careful that you do not get set up or recruited!
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
1:14 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 23rd, 2012
1:06 pm
Question: Are not conservatives for the elimination of the EPA and environmental regulations…particularly dealing with the oil industry?? Are not conservatives railing against the new Consumer Financial Protection Agency?
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
1:16 pm
HDB…..Short answer….Elimination (NO) Overhaul (YES)
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
1:27 pm
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
1:16 pm
You can’t overhaul what hasn’t been put into place yet!! There has to be an initial iteration!! The EPA is doing what’s necessary to preserve the environment……and the standards may appear stringent to some, but it does NOT stymie economic growth! I challenge that it ENHANCES economic growth by challenging innovation to come up with market solutions………………….
The Consumer Financial Protection Agency protects the consumer from financial industry largesses….and could prevent a market colapse from re-occuring!! You can’t protect the consumer from HIMSELF…..but you can against the industry……….
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
1:37 pm
HDB…..nope your assumption is wrong. It does no challenge by innovation to coincide witht the regulations. In many cases it has PROVES to cause companies to downsize, shut down or not jump into the industry at all.
How can you say you are for free markets and democracy but still support the CFPA. This is EXACLTY why Obama has lost 2 million jobs since taking office!
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
1:41 pm
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
1:37 pm
Under Bush, we were losing 750K jobs/month!!
I support consumer protection because corporate largesse works AGAINST the average consumer!! Granted, the preponderance of those agencies in the financial meltdown were non-banking mortgage concerns, but when they BUNDLED the mortgage backed securities with those of banking concerns, it exacerbated the decline!! Consumer financial protection is needed!!
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
1:45 pm
HDB….again your data is incorrect. Are you just ignorant to the facts or do you just like to lie? Please show me where at anytime Obama’s unemployment rate has been lower than Bush….Anytime?!?!
Ronnie Raygun
January 23rd, 2012
1:54 pm
“This is EXACLTY why Obama has lost 2 million jobs since taking office!”
Actually America has gained over 2 million net jobs since Obama’s stimulus was enacted in the Summer of 2009. More than the entire 8 year Bush administration.
Claiming the Obama should have waved a magic wand on the day of his inauguration and stopped the 500,000+ job losses a month that he inherited is quite silly.
td
January 23rd, 2012
1:55 pm
To all my lib friends:
I have said it over and over again that this election is not about whoever the Republican nominee is but rather if the white married middle class suburban woman (Independent vote) thinks Obama has done a good enough job to get four more years. If gas prices are going to $5 per gallon at the end of the summer as predicted then the Republican nominee WILL be President. End of story, can I get an Amen!!!
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
1:56 pm
Ronnie….you are a liar! Plain and simple. Look at the unemployment numbers they do not lie. Typical Demoncrat.
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
1:57 pm
Please show me ONE TIME in the 8 years under Bush where unemployment reached 8%
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
2:03 pm
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
1:56 pm
This shows the charts……..
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2010-02-05/wall_street/30088805_1
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
2:04 pm
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
1:45 pm
Not lying when I stated job losses were 750K/month……..
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/feb/17/joe-biden/biden-says-job-losses-have-fallen-750000-month-350/
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
2:04 pm
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
1:45 pm
….and here’s the graph comparing job gains/losses under Bush and Obama….
http://www.blogforarizona.com/blog/2010/09/yes-virginia-there-is-an-economic-recovery.html
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
2:09 pm
HDB….show me where unemployment under Bush reached 8%
Inside Out
January 23rd, 2012
2:10 pm
LOL…UGA…looks like HDB has you in a pickle…. let me see you beat that….:)
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
2:16 pm
Inside out…Ok your turn….show me where unemployment under Bush ever reached 8%.
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
2:25 pm
Didnt think you could!
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
2:26 pm
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
2:09 pm
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000
This graph shows that the unemployment rate during Bush’s last month in office (01/09) reached 8%.
Inside Out
January 23rd, 2012
2:27 pm
UGA…Well there you go…… LOL
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
2:30 pm
Actually nope….That was Obama’s month….try again…that is when he took office. Try Again!
Dusty
January 23rd, 2012
2:31 pm
Well,the weather outside looks worse but some things look better here. NIcer discussion.
MarkV asks Kyle about the “risks of life”. Kyle will give you a better answer but I think the risks of life involve things for which no one can be held responsible. The tornado that demolishes, the wreck when a driver has a seizure, an isolated icy road, a forgetful failure in duties by a daycare employee after inspection, the fresh vegatable for sale that carries a deadly microbe from the soil, an approved piece of equipment that breaks a mile under water, lightning strikes a tree with people underneath, a plague (ebola) that sweeps though, the list goes on. There may be preventive measure for some of these, but not for most. Regulations cannot cover the “risks of life” as Kyle has said.
The more regulations you have the less freedom and the less money you have. When everything is regulated, there is no freedom. Decisions are made for you. Therefore the Republican sides always with freedom in an environment of self regulation as far as possible. Being responsible for yourself comes first!
(Mark V, I still love my generalaties, the salt that savors.)
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
2:32 pm
Under Bush…..Unemployment averaged between 4-5%
Under Obama….Unemployment averages between 8-10%
HE DOUBLED IT!
Inside Out
January 23rd, 2012
2:35 pm
UGA, according to the chart that was just posted, the unemployment rate rose more than 3 full points during the last two years of the Bush presidency…. How do you explain that?
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
2:38 pm
Inside Out….EASY….FRANK/DODD
Obama rose it to over 10%….explain that.
Inside Out
January 23rd, 2012
2:39 pm
“Therefore the Republican sides always with freedom”
Except when it comes to things like who to marry ,reproductive choice, and what a person chooses to do in his or her own bedroom…….. ( except for Newton, and he wants to have a couple of women expressing that choice in his bedroom)
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
2:42 pm
Inside Out…..reproductive choice….So is that what they are calling murder these days?
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
2:46 pm
This is great. I wonder how the 8% of American public that are out of work will respond.
Elect Obama and stay out of work
Elect Newt (possible adulterer) and go back to work.
What do you think?
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
2:48 pm
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
2:42 pm
Obana took office on January 20, 2009; the BLS statistics count that as the LAST month of the Bush Administration………
Unemployment had gove to over 7.9% in the final months of the Bush Administration….and unemployment figures are a LAGGING indicator. That means that the effects of Bush policies can last anywhere from 6 to 36 months after an Administration change……….The aftermath of Bush policies made unemployment go to over 10%. When Obama’s policies took full effect, the unemplotyment rate began to DECLINE……..
Inside Out
January 23rd, 2012
2:48 pm
Reproductive choice is what the law says it is….Don’t you righties always whine and moan about the rule of law? The case law has been heard and settled… But when has that ever stopped you from attempting to stick your nose in another persons life???
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
2:50 pm
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
2:46 pm
Remember what happened the LAST time Republicans were in the White House??
Elect Newt (possible adulterer) and you won’t go back to work.
Elect Obama and go back to work
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
2:50 pm
HDB…and it also hit over 10% under Obama.
Also military unemployment is over 25%
Some states currently have over 12%
What is your point?
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
2:51 pm
Inside Out…Ok what about the babies life?
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
2:52 pm
HDB…..tell that to the 8.2% that are currently out of work. How do you think they will vote.
Obama = Experiment FAILED!
whatajoke
January 23rd, 2012
2:57 pm
UGA1899~ how much Boortz compensates you to be his blog mouthpiece??
Dam dude, use your own brain sometime.
Dusty
January 23rd, 2012
2:58 pm
Inside Out,
I have been a conservative US citizen all my life. No one told me I could not marry the one I love legally. No one told me when or never to have children. No one was evet interested in what went on in my bedroom.
Some conservatives do have a problem with your accusations. mainly on religious beliefs. But your judgments apply only to a very small minority of US citizens. Your complaints are being aired for discussion and action in many places. The USA lets everyone speak their piece. If the majority wishes to take issue, then it is done. But the convincing moment usually comes when most Americans feel that there is an injustice that needs to be corrected..
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
2:59 pm
Obama’s Record….
Unemployed Americans – LOST 2 Million
Unemployment Rate – UP 17%
Gas Prices UP 101%
Federal Debt – UP 35%
Debt Per Person – UP $11,385
Food Stamp Recipients – UP 39%
Health Insurance Premiums – UP 19%
Home Values – DOWN 12%
Yep that is a record he will be able to win with! hahahaha JOKE!
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
3:00 pm
whatajoke….sometime or sometimes? We speak English here NOT ebonics!
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
3:00 pm
Dusty
January 23rd, 2012
2:31 pm
“The more regulations you have the less freedom and the less money you have. When everything is regulated, there is no freedom. Decisions are made for you. Therefore the Republican sides always with freedom in an environment of self regulation as far as possible.”
The more a market is regulated, the GREATER the consumer protection…..which allows a better determination as to how YOUR money is spent…thereby greater CONTROL!! The market WILL NOT self-police itself. Effective regulation is needed to keep the markets viable for ALL!! In an unregulated market, only those of means will be able to purchase the necessary protections; the masses would be open to corporate largesse…..
The examples you stated show that regulation IS necessary: the fresh vegatable for sale that carries a deadly microbe from the soil (can be discovered and minimized by food inspection(regulation and enforcement)); a forgetful failure in duties by a daycare employee after inspection (closure of said facility – enforcement of regulatory practives); an approved piece of equipment that breaks a mile under water (materials testing to ensure adequate safeguards — regulation…)
For as many reasons as you state regulations are unnecessary, there are just as many — if not MORE — to show that a regulated market is NEEDED!!
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
3:01 pm
I wonder if HItler would be for regulations?
whatajoke
January 23rd, 2012
3:03 pm
Ebonic is a code word for what?
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
3:06 pm
whatajoke….WOW!
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
3:09 pm
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
2:50 pm
Here’s the counterargument……
Home Values – DOWN 12%: Home values began their decline under BUSH…..remember Lehman Brothers FOLDED because of declining real estate values……..
Health Insurance Premiums – UP 19% — Actually, insurance rates are growing at a SMALLER rate than under Bush. In many cases, insurers are holding BACK. (http://www.telegram.com/article/20120121/NEWS/120129915/1052/newsrewind)
Food Stamp Recipients – UP 39% – 424,000 LESS than under Bush
Unemployed Americans – LOST 2 Million: Actually 2M jobs have been CREATED in the Obama Administration
Unemployment Rate – UP 17%: Declining from a high of 10.2% to 8%. Lagging indicator of the Bush policies……..
Military unemployment is over 25% – result of the GOP’s refusal to negotiate during the debt-ceiling issue….and the MANDATORY CUTS kicked in as agreed to by both Democrats and Republicans. Note: Leon Panetta, SecDef, warned to GOP that this would happen……
There’s more to this than just the GOP’s talking points……………..
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
3:13 pm
HDB…so it is ALL Bush’s fault…..got it.
Do you think Obama will say the same things during the debates?
Dusty
January 23rd, 2012
3:15 pm
NO .. HDB,
My post explained that all things in life cannot be regulated. Even things that are regulated will still fail for (as Kyle put it) the risks of life, the inevitable, the unavoidable, the impossible to detect.
As to the financial world, there is no way to get rid of risks in certain areas. You may cut some disparities but you cannot totally control by regulations. Madoff proved that. So asking for more instead of demanding integrity is stifling to business and human freedom. Adding a heavy burden to the yoke does not make the oxen move better, just slows him down. (Excuse the metaphor! I just had to throw in one.).
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
3:16 pm
“Unemployment had gove to over 7.9% in the final months of the Bush Administration”
Which is a lot lower than what it has been for the last 3 years.
When will the economy get fixed like Obama said it would 3 years ago?
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
3:17 pm
“Dam dude, use your own brain sometime.”
Love it when people tell other people to use their brain and at the same time they can’t even spell correctly.
td
January 23rd, 2012
3:21 pm
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
3:09 pm
Good Lord dude. Can you tell any bigger untruths?
You numbers are a total farce.
” Food Stamp Recipients – UP 39% – 424,000 LESS than under Bush”
Go out in front of a dang welfare office and see how long the lines are today. The most uneducated person in the country does not believe that welfare has decreased in the last three years.
“Unemployed Americans – LOST 2 Million: Actually 2M jobs have been CREATED in the Obama Administration”
If we measured unemployment today the same as it was measured in the 30’s then the number would be close to 20%. This is another common sense debunking.
Trying to blame Bush for the mess Obama currently has is a more viable argument (untrue but at least it is arguable) then the one you are attempting to spin. Everyone with an ounce of common sense knows not one thing about the economy is better today then the day Obama took office.
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
3:24 pm
Dusty
January 23rd, 2012
3:15 pm
Agree that ALL things can’t be regulated…..but allowing laissez-faire economics would DESTROY the market.Look what happened when the financials were left to their own devices. In order to PROMOTE integrity, the regulations are put in place and ENFORCED!!
Adding a burden to the ox means you replace him with a tractor!! The market can adjust to regulations via innovation!!
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
3:13 pm
What Obama SHOULD do is to bring forth the history of his Administration, note what he inherited…and what he’s done to fix it!! You don’t assign blame…..but you can give responsibility (as you conservatives always claim to desire!!)……..
Givw thw HISTORICAL concept rather than the personal one………
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
3:24 pm
td….AMEN!
Inside Out
January 23rd, 2012
3:25 pm
TD…the Dow had fallen to 6500 Before Obama took office…It is over 12,700 now….Is that not “one thing about the economy” thats better???
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
3:28 pm
HDB…>WHAT HAS HE DONE TO FIX IT???? HE HAS MADE EVERYTHING WORSE!!! That is our point. No matter what he “inherited” had continues to make much bigger mistakes to make them worse!
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
3:28 pm
Inside Out….SO now you are in favor of Wall Street?
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
3:30 pm
td
January 23rd, 2012
3:21 pm
http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/765981/for_the_record:_george_w._bush_is_the_real_%25u2018food_stamp_president%25u2019
We asked the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Food and Nutrition service for month-by-month figures going back to January 2001. And they show that under President George W. Bush the number of recipients rose by nearly 14.7 million. Nothing before comes close to that.
And under Obama, the increase so far has been 14.2 million. To be exact, the program has so far grown by 444,574 fewer recipients during Obama’s time in office than during Bush’s.
Didn’t make up the numbers………
Inside Out
January 23rd, 2012
3:31 pm
Ask that 2 million or so Americans that work in and around tha auto industry if things are worse??? Ask them how that would be getting along had Obama not took the steps needed to save the last viable segment of manufacturing in this country….
whatajoke
January 23rd, 2012
3:33 pm
Unfortunately or fortunately, with the continued improvement of technology, the 4% unemployment days are probably history. How do you explain that companies’ profits are at record levels? Do you think with the change of a president, companies are just going to start hiring people that they don’t need? So if you believe that the man who occupies the white house has control over this revolution, John Smoltz will get the asking price for his mansion.
Dusty
January 23rd, 2012
3:34 pm
What is “military unemployment”? If you are in the military, you are employed. If you are out of the military, you are a veteran civilian.
Is this a political outreach to somehow stir the military against Republicans?
I don’t think the military have any doubts about which political party supports them the most. They probably know about the antiwar protests and the white flags raised by liberals while our soldiers are at war. They haven’t forgotten and neither have I.
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
3:35 pm
UGA 1999
January 23rd, 2012
3:28 pm
He’s done more than you give him credit for!
1) Health Care Reform — by attempting to slow the growth of health care costs, that ’s more $$ for the economy
2) Stimulus packages: When the economy declines and private industry does not step up, the only entity that can RAPIDLY inject capital into the economic system IS the GOVERNMENT!!
The national infrastructure needs attention; if the government would stimulate that rebuilding effort, how many MORE people would get back to work….and WHO’S holding up that effort!! One pipeline won’t put as many people back to work as rebuilding the interstate highway system!!!
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
3:36 pm
“Ask that 2 million or so Americans that work in and around tha auto industry if things are worse???”
GM sales are waaaaaaaaaaay down. If you’re lumping Ford in with your question, Ford didn’t take the bailout money from Obama.
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
3:37 pm
“2) Stimulus packages: When the economy declines and private industry does not step up, the only entity that can RAPIDLY inject capital into the economic system IS the GOVERNMENT!!”
Ok, you’re a liar in my book, HDB. Everyone knows the stimulus packages failed.
Linda
January 23rd, 2012
3:38 pm
HDB@1:27, The EPA is trying to rid the US of our entire coal industry, for starters. You don’t think that will stymie growth? The new CFPA does nothing to prevent another financial meltdown. Obama & the Dems. did not even wait for the findings of the Obama-appointed Financial Inquiry Commission before passing the Dodd/Frank Act, which did not even address Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac.
@1:41, Fannie & Freddie also bundled MBSs, directed to do so by the fed. govt.
@2:03, A graph from Nancy Pelosi. Really?
@2:04, Propaganda from the blog for Arizona. Really again?
@2:26, The box below the graph specifically states that the unemployment rate in 1/09 was 7.8%, not 8%.
@2:48, Unemployment had NOT gone over 7.9% in the final mts. of Bush. That same box in your cited site @2:26 lists the unemployment rates monthly during 2008 from Jan. thru Dec. as 5%, 4.9%, 5.1%, 5%, 5.4%, 5.6%, 5.8%, 6.1%, 6.1%, 6.5%, 6.8% & 7.3%. Did you look at your own site?
No, unemployment still has not begun to decline. Look at that same box in YOUR site & share with us just one month, just ONE MONTH, in which the unemployment rate has been lower in the last THREE YEARS under Obama than it was during the entire EIGHT YEARS under Bush.
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
3:39 pm
Dusty
January 23rd, 2012
3:34 pm
“I don’t think the military have any doubts about which political party supports them the most.”
The neo-cons didn’t SERVE in the military……..how many sent their children to Iraq or Afghanistan??
Both sides support the military….the officer corps is primarily GOP…but much of the enlisted is Democrat (from personal experience!)……..
Dusty
January 23rd, 2012
3:40 pm
HDB,
Good comeback on the “tractor”. But the tractor aint no regulation and it aint cheap, my friend.
Regulations are a heavy, costly burden. Smaller, precise and less expensive are the key words.
Inside Out
January 23rd, 2012
3:43 pm
UGA..I do not now, nor have I ever had a problem with Wall Street. I have a multiple investments that are market based and love to see them do well.. That being said I can freely admit that there is an inherent flaw in the system that favors the haves over the have nots….Our society will never survive if all of the advantages and as a results the money is pulled out of the system and feed back to those at the top of the food chain. At some point everyone else has to have a bite at the apple as well….
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
3:45 pm
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
3:37 pm
The stimulus wasn’t ENOUGH…that was the problem!!
Linda
January 23rd, 2012
3:38 pm
From a high of 10.2 to its present of 8%: if that’s not a decline, please indicate what is!! Many fail to realize that the unemployment figures are LAGGING INDICATORS…..so what is reported in one month is indicative of what occured 3-36 months EARLIER!! Because of the lag in time, what occurred in March-October 2009 can be attributed to policies enacted up to 36 moths PRIOR!! That makes it a Bush employment indicator……….
Dusty
January 23rd, 2012
3:47 pm
HDB…false statement on the military when you said “Neocons didn’t serve in the military.” My son served in the military for 15 years (mostly in Germany), just like his father and grandfather served in the military.
The pastor of my church, a very conservative man, has two sons currently serving in the military, one in the USA and one in Afghanistan. There are two others from my church who are serving in the miitary in Afghanistan. I doubt that they are liberals. All are not officers, including one who is a Marine.
Don't Tread
January 23rd, 2012
3:48 pm
I see we’re back to “It’s Bush’s fault”…
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
3:49 pm
Dusty
January 23rd, 2012
3:40 pm
HDB,
“Good comeback on the “tractor”. But the tractor aint no regulation and it aint cheap, my friend.”
It’s the market reaction to regulation…..it’s called INNOVATION!! Americans used to PRIDE themselves in the fact that they were the most innovatove group of people on the earth!! The more people that buy the innovation, the cost DECLINES….and MORE go back to work to invoke the innovation!!
THAT’S what we used to do….what don’t we do it again???
Linda
January 23rd, 2012
3:51 pm
The EPA is finally getting ready to reduce the amount of carbon dioxide, the main greenhouse gas attributed to the world-wide global warming, by reducing it & eventually eliminating it from more common sources. Products that will be effected will include all soft drinks in bottles, cans & soda fountains. Beer, sparkling wine, tonic & soda water will be included. Yeast, baking powder & decaffeinated coffee will be restricted. The ban will affect compressed gas for airguns, paintball markers & inflating bicycle tires. Fire extinguishers, dry cleaning, refrigerants, swimming pools & submarines will be replaced.
Inside Out
January 23rd, 2012
3:51 pm
Somewhere….Check your facts…
http://www.bendbulletin.com/article/20120120/NEWS0107/201200333/
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
3:52 pm
Dusty
January 23rd, 2012
3:47 pm
There’s a difference between some conservatives and the “neo-cons” of the Bush/Cheney ilk (whom I was referring to….the “chickenhawks”)!
I served, my son served….and my daughter -in-law is serving….
Inside Out
January 23rd, 2012
3:55 pm
OK Dusty,
My dad, one of my brothers, and one sister served with honor and valor..I have Twin nephews that are currently in Turkey and another on the USS Esienhower right now.. all are Demacrats…Whats your point????
clyde
January 23rd, 2012
3:57 pm
Linda– You forgot trees.They are to be eliminated immediately.
Dusty
January 23rd, 2012
3:59 pm
Right HDB
Americans are filled with innovations due to the freedom of mind and personality here. But Americans are saddled with heavy regulations that kill innovations.
The forecast with Democrats in charge is MORE regulations. Every “risk of life” must immediately call for more regulations. No improvement. No compaction. No understanding. Just lay on the regulations and the expenses that go with it.
Moderation is needed in this process. Democrats seem unable to modify or reduce.
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
4:00 pm
Linda
January 23rd, 2012
3:51 pm
There are other options in certain areas for CO2…
1) compressed gas for airguns, paintball markers & inflating bicycle tires.: compressed nitrogen is already being used by the airlines; this is commercially feasible
2) Beer, sparkling wine, tonic & soda water will be included: Yeast, baking powder & decaffeinated coffee: Yeast naturally generated carbonic acid in the fermentation process; wine also uses nitrites for preservation. Corporate America will get grandfathered in…….
3) Fire extinguishers, dry cleaning, refrigerants, swimming pools & submarines will be replaced:
Halon is already nitrogen-based – fire extinguishers
Swimming pools are both chlorinated and nitrogenated
Refrigerants are converting now to non-chlorine-based….not carbon based refrigerants…primarily nitrogen…..
The Navy is already experimenting with nitrogen in ballast tanks…..
Industry CAN adapt……………
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
4:00 pm
“The stimulus wasn’t ENOUGH…that was the problem!!
You’ve lost any and all credibility with that lie.
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
4:03 pm
Dusty
January 23rd, 2012
3:59 pm
When the government placed restrictions on coal-burning plants, didn’t the industry adapt by devising scrubbers to remove the sulfur content of the exhaust? Didn’t the industry devise a methodology for cleaner burning coal?? The regulations brought forth the innovation…..
Some regulations are onerous….and need to be checked; no regulations would make the US look like the Mexican border…and look at the environmenta; damage down there!!
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
4:04 pm
Have a good day, all……gone!!
HDB
January 23rd, 2012
4:06 pm
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
4:00 pm
It WASN’T!! If we had properly stimulated the economy with infrastructure repairs (to start), how many MORE people would have been working?? Rewiring the nation would have put more engineers back to work……
If we could envision putting men on the moon…why can we envision rebuilding our NATION???
Dusty
January 23rd, 2012
4:08 pm
Inside out, @3:55
My point about the military was this: HDB said that “no neocons served in Afghanistan”. I proved him wrong. Did you miss that?
Cheers for you family serving in the military in Afghanistan or anywhere..
I hope this answers your question.
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
4:10 pm
HDB
Give it up. You have absolutely ZERO credibility here. Even the Democrats run from that word and NO ONE even talks about it anymore.
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
4:10 pm
“all are Demacrats”
And no one cares.
Dusty
January 23rd, 2012
4:12 pm
So long, HDB
You simply looked over the word “moderation” mentioned by so many conservatives. That is what we meant and said. Moderation! Got it?
Linda
January 23rd, 2012
4:14 pm
HDB@3:45, My question was very simple: Name ONE MONTH in which the unemployment rate has been lower during the last THREE YEARS under Obama than it was during the entire EIGHT YEARS under Bush.
This Blame Bush strategy might have worked for a while, but it’s old. If Obama is re-elected & the unemployment rate remains high, how many more years will you continue to blame Bush? When will the economy belong to Obama? I couldn’t help but notice that you are trying to simultaneously blame Bush AND give credit to Obama. Which is it?
Obama said that if he & the Dems. spent almost $1 T in 2/09, that the unemployment rate would not exceed 8%. Well, the $1 T is gone & the unemployment rate exceeded 10%. You are blaming Bush for the unemployment rate exceeding 10% & giving Obama credit for its current unacceptable
rate of 8.5%.
If there were Bush policies “enacted up to 36 mts. prior” to Mar.-Oct./09 that caused the high unemployment rate, please share with us what they were.
MarkV
January 23rd, 2012
4:24 pm
Dusty @2:31 pm
Oh Dusty, you should know better than this. Will you complain again about “semantics?” When you respond to what somebody else has written, should you not quote accurately, rather than change the meaning? I did not ask Kyle about “the risk of life,” and Kyle did not write that regulations cannot cover “risks of life.” What Kyle wrote was the following, as you can check: “Caveat emptor. And you’ll be more likely to follow it if you also heed the warning against believing government can regulate and monitor the risks or problems out of life.”
Kyle was arguing that government cannot regulate risk or problems OUT OF LIFE. (My emphasis) In other words, to make life without risks or problems. Which is what I commented about. He showed some cases where regulations were wrong (I did not ckeck that, but took it as correct for the sake of argument), and then made a sweeping generalization, warning that regulations cannot make life without risk or problems. Which nobody argued they can. A straw man argument.
I would be guilty of the same if I showed you a few regulations that do lessen risks – and there are many, which I hope you will not deny – and then generalize that it means that the regulations can remove ALL risks.
I think any rational person will agree that some regulations are good and some are bad. Self-regulation works only so far.
Linda
January 23rd, 2012
4:26 pm
HDB@4:00, You are living proof that liberals will believe anything as long as Obama says it’s so. If Obama told Government Motors to remove floorboards from cars so we could propel them with our feet, would your answer be, “Industry CAN adapt?”
P.S. Obama thinks wrestling is real & a great “sport.”
Linda
January 23rd, 2012
4:30 pm
clyde@3:37, Trees might have given me away.
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
4:34 pm
” You are living proof that liberals will believe anything as long as Obama says it’s so.
Yep.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
January 23rd, 2012
4:52 pm
Who’s keeping an eye on the government?
Dusty
January 23rd, 2012
5:12 pm
Just wondering…Did any of you read Maureen Dowd’s column in Sunday’s AJC?
Now most of you probably know that Dowd is an avid Democrat who would have liked to burn Bush at the stake and all Republicans with him. But here are some of her surprising words on President Obama.
“Times have been bad and sad, and The One (Obama) did not turn out to be a messiah, just a mortal politician who ruefully jokes that his talent is hitting the ’sweet spot’ where he makes no one happy, neither allies nor opponents.”
Dowd goes on to say that Obama feels the press thinks he is cool and aloof.
Quoting Jodie Kantor’s book “The Obamas”, Dowd wrote “Despite what his rivals say, the president and first lady ……”feel over assaulted and underappreciated.. We disappoint them”.
Then Dowd said referring to the Obamas: “They still believed, as their friend Valerie Jarrett, once said ‘ that Obama was just too talented to do what ordinary people do’.”
In Kantor’s book, she writes: ” that the Obamas feel “misunderstood, burrowed into ’self imposed exile, ……………..with their small circle of Chicago friends who reinforced the idea that ‘the American public just did not appreciate their exceptional leader’.
Dowd notes that neither Pres. Carter nor Pres. Clinton have been invited to dinner within the private residence.
Then she writes” The Obamas , especially Michelle, have radiated the sense that Americans do not appreciate what they sacrifice by living in a gilded cage.”
I find it pretty amazing. First, that a dedicated Democratic journalist like Dowd would declare the Obamas in this manner. Second, to see that the Obamas are obviously unhappy in their leadership role is so revealing. Just supports the belief of many Americans that we elected a man totally unsuited or qualified for the presidency..
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
January 23rd, 2012
5:25 pm
Mitt’s strategy for 2012 as for 2008 was to sit on his lead and run out the clock: Four years ago, that strategy died in New Hampshire; this time round it died one state later. Congratulations!
If Plastic Man keeps at it, he should have enough delegates to win the nomination by 2112.
Dusty
January 23rd, 2012
5:33 pm
MarkV
You will have to show me where I said that “all regulations should be removed”. I made a point of explaining why regulations could NOT remove all ” risks of life” even listing what I considered “risks of life”. I was agreeing with Kyle who said “Caveat emptor” (beware of the buyer) which meant to me that we should be aware that regulations cannot remove all the risks of life.
I also promoted “moderation” in many posts here this afternoon.
Maybe I miunderstood Kyle or you misunderstood what I wrote. Either way, I prefer moderation in most things including regulations. Moderate to me means a sensible compromise in the middle. which does not mean total removal.
Hope this helps in some way.
Cobbian
January 23rd, 2012
5:43 pm
What I get from the article is that we need to pressure the state government to publish inspection reports. The problem is not that inspections are not effective. The problem is that they are secret. Let the public know and then the day care centers face consequences.
Linda
January 23rd, 2012
5:46 pm
The rumor is out that Obama might change his mind on approving the Keystone Pipeline. It seems that the Canadian govt. has agreed to allow the pipeline to include solar panels & windmills flowing thru it, in addition to the black crude, on the days of the month in which there will be full moons those same nights. Now, Obama will be able to appease both his bases, the kooks (radical environmentalists) & the thugs (unions).
Michael H. Smith
January 23rd, 2012
5:54 pm
Oopsy…
faulty“fraudulent” ratings. There Kyle, I fixed it for you.MarkV
January 23rd, 2012
5:59 pm
Dusty @5:33 pm
Dusty,
I do not think anything can be gained by arguing this point, because both of us are in general agreement, preferring moderation. It just confusing when you seem to read things that do not exist in my posts. You have now written the following: You will have to show me where I said that “all regulations should be removed”. The quotations are supposed to indicate a quote. Where did you find in my post that you said that “all regulations should be removed?”
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 23rd, 2012
6:10 pm
HDB: Question: Are not conservatives for the elimination of the EPA and environmental regulations…particularly dealing with the oil industry?
———————————–
No. Prove me wrong.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 23rd, 2012
6:13 pm
HDB probably thinks Government Motors paid back every taxpayer dollar–Obozo said it, so it must be true!
MarkV
January 23rd, 2012
6:33 pm
Dusty @5:12 pm
Dusty,
You devoted so much time to write this gossip? And even if all of it were true, do you seriously believe that those things you cited make a man “totally unsuited or qualified for the presidency?”
Linda
January 23rd, 2012
6:51 pm
Dusty, I warned you. Just tell him you know he’s a progressive & you think progressives aren’t good for the country. He’s manipulative & he’s learning you aren’t manipulable. He’ll call you every name from the pre-school playground & then leave you alone to be free to promote the conservative agenda, in hopes of preventing the economy from totally tanking.
MarkV
January 23rd, 2012
6:56 pm
Dusty,
I have to go now. I will look forward to your posts. Just be sure to use appropriate label!
saywhat?
January 23rd, 2012
6:58 pm
Somewhere over there
January 23rd, 2012
3:36 pm
“GM sales are waaaaaaaaaaay down. If you’re lumping Ford in with your question, Ford didn’t take the bailout money from Obama.”
Ummmmmm. Not so much
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/06/world%E2%80%99s-largest-automakers-of-2011-projected-gm-wins-toyota-takes-3rd/
If you have this little knowledge about the auto industry, it certainly explains your complete lack of knowledge on just about everything else you spew. One could have a more informative discussion with a head of lettuce.
Dusty
January 23rd, 2012
7:21 pm
Mark V
‘Tis true. I put in quotations what I thought you said or meant. Did you not mean that I said that all regulations should be removed?
I give you my opinion. You are correct in saying everything should be based on exact quotations to be more accurate. Of course, I am just giving you my opinion of what I read when I read it. It is a very accurate writing of my opinion.
As to the gossip, could be. But it seems to be the opinion of several people in contact with the president and the first lady. To be reported by a loyal liberal is even more surprising. It is like Bookman coming out and saying something deleterious to Obama. It just isn’t done.
I have long felt that Obama was not suitable for the presidency based on his short experience in politics, his infamous friends who aided his rise to fame, his wife’s original opinion of the USA and 20 years of listening to a minister who damned this country.
Obama was an excellent orator in the last race. That is his talent as far as I can see besides the fact that he is a good father. Those are good abilities but not enough to be president.
So reading Dowd’s piece just added to my conclusion that Obama was not suitable for the presidency. His first three years certainly did little to change my opinion.
Dusty
January 23rd, 2012
7:32 pm
Dear Linda,
MarkV is a determined Democrat and presents his case. I believe he is honest in his convictions.
Well, I am honest too. I don’t mind hearing from him. An honest liberal is the best kind. They put their cards on the table. Then we can all play at convincing each other, the essential political game.
Always good to hear from you. You present a strong case. That’s always a wise move.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 23rd, 2012
7:34 pm
saywhat?: If you have this little knowledge about the auto industry, it certainly explains your complete lack of knowledge on just about everything else you spew.
———————————-
GM sold 5 million vehicles in the US in 1999, and 2.5 million last year.
Oopsies.
Linda
January 23rd, 2012
7:47 pm
Dusty, Even Dems. don’t know who progressives are & have no idea how their party has been infiltrated by them. There are progressives in the Republican party, but the progressive caucus is made up of all Dems. Do your own research & make up your own mind. They are a breed of their own.
There is no longer a clear distinction among voters. There’s always been Dems., Reps. & Independents. There’s liberals & conservatives. There’s Blue Dog Dems. & RINOS. But it’s the progressives who we need to be completely alarmed with.
I didn’t even know what a progressive was until the last 2 or 3 yrs. I am absolutely appalled at who they are & what they are up to. They’ve been around for decades & it’s unbelievable what damage they have done to our schools/children, our economy & our freedom.
Rafe Hollister
January 23rd, 2012
7:50 pm
Dusty
Maureen Dowd is a devoted liberal who would stand in a long line in the rain while having a fever, to vote for her Utopian messiah. She wrote that article in an effort to try and convince herself that she is somewhat objective.
@@
January 23rd, 2012
8:01 pm
There’s a lot to be said for the old adage…”If you want something done right, do it yourself.”
Rafe Hollister
January 23rd, 2012
8:05 pm
Correction Maureen Dowd is a progressive.
Linda, since liberal has become such an epithet, most libs now call themselves a progressive. I am with you, that I do not think most know what a Woodrow Wilson progressive really is. Those that do, like Hillary Clinton, George Soros, Barry Oblamer, etc are far to the left of the common everyday utopian bed wetting liberal.
saywhat?
January 23rd, 2012
8:15 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 23rd, 2012
7:34 pm
GM sold 5 million vehicles in the US in 1999, and 2.5 million last year.
Oopsies.
___________________________
Irrelevant. Worldwide sales for GM were over 9 million in 2011, the most of any auto manufacturer that year. GM previously sold slightly more in the years 2005-2007, with a peak in 2007 of 9.37 million. The difference this past year is that GM was profitable, where as in those previous years, they were not.
http://www.autozine.org/Manufacturer/USA/GM.html
Oopsies. You and somewhere can go back to your coloring books now.
Rafe Hollister
January 23rd, 2012
8:22 pm
The difference this past year is that GM was profitable, where as in those previous years, they were not.
____________________________________________________________
Kinda helps the ole bottom line if you don’t worry about paying off your new debts and bankrupt your old debts.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
January 23rd, 2012
8:34 pm
People don’t understand how the price of fuel affects everything that they pay for, from food to any good that they get. But the bottom line is that this man, because of what I can clearly see as politics to support these environmental people, he is willing to destroy this country, destroy the economy, it’s a no-brainer in terms of getting away from dependence on the foreigners, foreign oil. And I just cannot in good conscience continue to hurt my family in the amount that I’m paying for fuel, groceries, and everything else. I cannot in good conscience support this man when this is obviously political because it would have helped this country and the economy. So I want to say that I’m finally seeing the light and I’m done with him.
What took you so long to figure this out, man?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 23rd, 2012
8:53 pm
saywhat?: Irrelevant…GM previously sold slightly more in the years 2005-2007, with a peak in 2007 of 9.37 million. The difference this past year is that GM was profitable.
————–
Totally relevant, since you claimed earlier that GM sales weren’t down. They are.
Oopsies.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 23rd, 2012
8:54 pm
Oh, and GM is “profitable” because Obozo changed the law just for them so they could carry forward and deduct $45 billion in previous losses.
Oopsies, part deux.
Linda
January 23rd, 2012
9:53 pm
saywhat@8:15, I find it hilarious that liberals try to defend mock profits by Government Motors & condemn real profits by other corporations, especially a corporation run by Romney.
Fast and Furious Spending
January 24th, 2012
2:47 am
The question I ask this this: What is it that you REALLY want…a return to the 50s….or should we work on making the PRESENT better for EVERYONE???
HDB,
It is entirely appropriate to respond at 2:30 am to this charred overdone pretend criticism of conservatives (see also Aquagirl’s “revenooer” crap earlier). Your claim is about as serious as the bong you probably have between your legs at this very minute.
This history of America is magnificent in its entirety. Sure there have been some problems, but the liberal solution is to blame America for any prosperous time, whether it was the 50’s, the 80’s (ever heard the “decade of greed”) or any other time when “progressive” values weren’t triumphant. The trouble with progressive values is that they usually lead to poverty and disaster (30’s, 60’s and 70’s).
A fundamental transformation is not needed as Obama has begun enacting and is attempting to enact further. Your witless conjuring of the 50’s, June Cleaver and Father Knows Best is just absurd. We need MORE financial regulation and environmental regulation like we need more jobs shipping off to china, which is exactly what will happen if we get the regs.
It’s about the economy, ……
……… stupid.
GodHatesTrash, Superstar
January 24th, 2012
6:45 am
You’re really reaching to use this example to support your underlying idiotology, Kyle.
HDB
January 24th, 2012
7:53 am
Fast and Furious Spending
January 24th, 2012
2:47 am
In response to your monotribe, let me say this: Whenever markets have been UNREGULATED, hey eventually burn themselves OUT! Prime example is what just happened with the financials…and the damage that did to the nation as a whole. If Glass-Stegall had NOT been repealed, the controls would have been in place to arrest the problem EARLIER than was done!!
Regulations are necessary so that the consumer CAN be a part of the marketplace. Are there certain regulations that need to be eliminated…that are onerous?? Yes…and I admit that….but to totally deregulate industry would bring forth both economic and biological destruction….and the standard of living would decline even further than is has currently.
If you wish to revert to the 50s….where $17/week was a decent pay scale….fine.
If you wish to revert to a point in time where all consumers couldn’t participate in the marketplace….fine.
Many though, would be resistant to such a throwback…………………..
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 24th, 2012
10:02 am
Just to summarize HDB’s post…”Let’s keep offshoring those jobs and regulate ourselves into oblivion for nearly no environmental or health benefit to the regulations”
UGA 1999
January 24th, 2012
10:12 am
Lil Barry….I know right. Nearly every idea that HDB has would kill american jobs!
Somewhere over there
January 24th, 2012
10:13 am
It’s pretty damn hypocritical that libs, or whatever they want to hide themselves as today, won’t go after other libs for being rich.
Clinton surpasses $75 million in speech income after lucrative 2010
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/11/clinton-surpasses-75-million-in-speech-income-after-lucrative-2010/
Somewhere over there
January 24th, 2012
10:15 am
WELL LOOKY LOOKY!!!!!!
Buffett’s Burlington Northern Among Winners From Keystone Denial
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-23/buffett-s-burlington-northern-among-winners-in-obama-rejection-of-pipeline.html
Shabootyquiqui
January 24th, 2012
2:32 pm
“…but then doesn’t close down the worst offenders”
That it seems to me is key. They don’t have to shut down all the scofflaws, only a few in select areas. The word gets around quickly. The others will make an effort to come into compliance if they see that the State is serious. Why are we spending tax money to do inspections if we don’t intend to enforce the law?
Now with Ten Percent More Flavor
January 25th, 2012
7:25 am
Kyle probably has his own lab set up in his house where he checks all his food for toxins and bacteria, etc. He probably even has a mass spectrometer set up right next to his electron microscope because Kyle don’t want or need no stinking regulations. He’s a man and he does it all by himself.