Poll Position: Who’s right about Romney’s time at Bain?
(Note: Apologies for the late Poll Position today, but I wanted the ethics reform post to be online all day.)
This week has seen one of the more amazing attack lines in any GOP presidential primary. It seems some Republican candidates think Mitt Romney was too much of a capitalist.
Well, that’s not exactly how they’d put it. Texas Gov. Rick Perry (yes, he’s still running, despite barely beating the combination of Buddy Roemer and “total write-ins” in New Hampshire) refers to Romney’s career at Bain Capital as “vulture capitalism,” not venture capitalism. A so-called Super PAC supporting Newt Gingrich produced a 28-minute video titled “When Mitt Romney Came to Town” about a company in South Carolina — the site of the next primary — bought by Bain.
Who's right about Romney's time at Bain Capital?
- Gingrich and Perry (178 Votes)
- Romney and his defenders (95 Votes)
- Who knows? (38 Votes)
Total Voters: 311
Loading ...Their attacks have been lauded by some on the right, and virtually everyone on the left, as an appropriate critique of Romney’s claim to have been a job creator in the private sector and/or a good way to toughen up Romney for the general election against Barack Obama. (I didn’t realize Gingrich and Perry were running for “presidential sparring partner” instead of president.) But Gingrich and Perry have also been fiercely criticized by many on the right for making pandering, un-nuanced attacks on capitalism merely to boost their electoral chances.
Who’s right?
That’s this week’s Poll Position question. Answer in the nearby poll and in the comments thread below.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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388 comments Add your comment
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
January 13th, 2012
4:54 pm
Denial, MarkV.. Plain and simple denial on your part.
Dusty
January 13th, 2012
4:59 pm
Tiberius,
Tell MarkV that “de nial” is a river in Egypt. That will get him all confused It is so much fun…
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
January 13th, 2012
5:02 pm
Dusty,
MarkV is so caught up in absolutist definitions that he fails to see the reality in things.
MarkV
January 13th, 2012
5:05 pm
Dusty @4:42 pm: “MarkV -When you accuse others of ignorance more than once, you need to explain why you feel that way. “
Sorry if you feel offended. Actually, I have explained it on this blog, not once but several times. I admit that somebody, perhaps you, might have missed that. You should understand that to keep repeating the explanation becomes tiresome. But I would be glad to copy the explanation again if you wish.
And I firmly reject you accusation of arrogance. Let me be a little serious here. There are some people posting here that I ignore completely, because I do not consider them worth answering. There are some I respond to only when they write something too aggravating, but often I ignore them as well. It is not arrogance, just that it is a waste of time and effort. You are not one of the above. I think you really are able do better than writing things without giving some thought to whether they are making sense of whether you can support them with reason. As I said, you can say whatever you want, but do not expect not to be challenged.
MarkV
January 13th, 2012
5:13 pm
Dusty @4:59 pm; “Tiberius, Tell MarkV that “de nial” is a river in Egypt. That will get him all confused It is so much fun…”
Dusty, Dusty, I warned you about trying to sound witty. I think my grandfather was punished in school for that “de nial” joke.
Jefferson
January 13th, 2012
5:21 pm
Since it’s all over but the crying, will Romney pick Jeffs for the running mate or will Sarah make a cameo?
Dusty
January 13th, 2012
5:23 pm
MarkV @5:05
I hope I am not wasting your valuable time but that is the longest explanation of arrogance I have read in a long time. It almost sounds like it was from Samuel Johnson’s dictionary only he was very intelligent but not arrogant. He did like a little laugh now and then, a quality you are totally missing.
Oh do challenge my posts at any time. If I am available from my heavy schedule of deep subject material, I shall be glad to explain any of the things that simple minds cannot understand.
Right now I must adjourn for a fowl forum on whether his term in the oven is complete. To be done or not to be. That is the question. (If you don’t understand, ask Willie Shakespeare.) .
Dusty
January 13th, 2012
5:27 pm
Mark V @ 5:13 About “de nial”……
YOU GOT IT!! YOU GOT IT!! Your grandfather probably explained it to you. Very good!! You are making progress.
MarkV
January 13th, 2012
5:45 pm
Dusty,
If you come back from your fowl forum, I have this message for you. I tried to reason friendly with you, and that fell on deaf ears. Have it your way.
Barney Frank
January 13th, 2012
6:24 pm
These unemployment rates are low compared to other socialist countries like the U.S. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-13/fed-s-evans-says-policy-risks-errors-of-japan-great-depression.html
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
January 13th, 2012
6:31 pm
For you, Bart Abel:
“It constantly amazes me that defenders of the free market are expected to offer certainty and perfection while government has only to make promises and express good intentions. Many times, for instance, I’ve heard people say, ‘A free market in education is a bad idea because some child somewhere might fall through the cracks,’ even though in today’s government schools, millions of children are falling through the cracks every day.” – Lawrence Reed
MarkV
January 13th, 2012
6:50 pm
Barney Frank @6:24 pm
Thee are currently four socialist countries in the world.
Available unemployment figures:
Cuba: 1.6% (2010 estimate)
Laos: 2.5% (2009 estimate)
Vietnam : 4.4% (2010 estimate)
China: 6.10% (September 2009 est)
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2129rank.html
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 13th, 2012
6:51 pm
Hats off to Newt, Rick, et al for making Romney a sympathetic figure.
Among freedom-loving, pro-business Americans, anyway. Pardon the triple redundancy.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 13th, 2012
6:52 pm
MarkV: Available unemployment figures
————————-
Yeah, and Saddam won 99% of the vote in his last election.
You are so easily led, eh?
Dusty
January 13th, 2012
7:05 pm
Well, my fowl forum was famously furnished with dressing and gravy. Ummm delicious.
Ah MarkV has tried to be friendly! He said so. He does need a few more lessons. But who am I to tell this gentlemen how to be sweet and kind. Such a task! A prickly cactus comes to mind.
But let us return to politics. I think Romney will do just fine even if he does have millions on top of millions I will not hold that against him. I would suggest he take his vacations in Hawaii at his own expense. Now that would be a nice conservative gesture. Our rich conservatives know how to behave.
Linda
January 13th, 2012
7:09 pm
Isn’t it funny how the progressives try to make us think that socialist parties & socialist policies don’t make for a socialist country? The US isn’t a socialist country–yet–but we have a group that have been trying for decades to socialize/nationalize every aspect of our economy, totally denying it every step of the way, as if all of us were just plain stupid.
Most of us know that Europe is in turmoil from socialism. That is exactly where the US is headed if we don’t stop the spending & rein in the entitlements.
The One, The Only, The Amazing GodHatesTrash!
January 13th, 2012
7:11 pm
The private equity biz requires one to be as slick as the hair on Mitt’s head, and sleazier than a big bucket of santorum.
Liars, flip-floppers, and wheeler-dealers – your basic garden variety sociopath – are the folks that make out in that business. And Mitt has made out to the tune of $250M or so – we’ll see if and when he ever releases his financials, although you can bet most of the Romney $$$ is untraceable.
Honor? Character? Keeping one’s word? Not in that business. Not Mitt Romney either.
Linda
January 13th, 2012
7:29 pm
What did Romney do that Obama Motors didn’t do? Didn’t Obama close down hundreds of GM & Chrysler dealerships because they weren’t profitable or posed too much competition? Didn’t Obama put thousands of people out of work? The difference is that Obama did it with taxpayer money to save union jobs.
Lightening Strikes Twice
January 13th, 2012
7:29 pm
@ – Tiberius
Underground History of American Education
John Taylor Gatto
Chapter Two
An Angry Look At Modern Schooling
The secret of American schooling is that it doesn’t teach the way children learn and it isn’t supposed to. It took seven years of reading and reflection to finally figure out that mass schooling of the young by force was a creation of the four great coal powers of the nineteenth century. Nearly one hundred years later, on April 11, 1933, Max Mason, president of the Rockefeller Foundation, announced to insiders that a comprehensive national program was underway to allow, in Mason’s words, “the control of human behavior.”
http://johntaylorgatto.com/underground/toc1.htm
Barney Frank
January 13th, 2012
7:29 pm
Thee are currently four socialist countries in the world.
Available unemployment figures:
Cuba: 1.6% (2010 estimate)
Laos: 2.5% (2009 estimate)
Vietnam : 4.4% (2010 estimate)
China: 6.10% (September 2009 est)
Didn’t see European stats in here..
Barney Frank
January 13th, 2012
7:34 pm
Maybe these are more familiar unemployment rates. No wonder with their entitlements and unemployment rates like these they need bailout money from other countries.
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/Unemployment_statistics
A glimpse of the future of the US?
independent thinker
January 13th, 2012
7:35 pm
Poor Newt is so desperate he has now joined the occupier movement to get votes. I’d like to see him and Callista camped in a tent.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
January 13th, 2012
7:41 pm
Yeah, MarkV, GREAT comparison. Of course, if we’d like their standard of living, i.e. POVERTY, we could be Socialists, too! Per capita income in U.S. dollars follows your unemployment numbers.
Cuba: 1.6% (2010 estimate) $9,500 (2008)
Laos: 2.5% (2009 estimate) $2,100 (2008)
Vietnam : 4.4% (2010 estimate) $2,800 (2008)
China: 6.10% (September 2009 est) $6,000 (2008)
And of course, ours is at $47,000, more than doubling the four countries you seem to admire so much COMBINED. Feel free to join them, but don’t try to destroy what we have, OK?
http://siakhenn.tripod.com/capita.html
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 13th, 2012
7:45 pm
If you have a problem with turnaround specialists like Bain, what you are FOR is laying off everyone, instead of just the most productive employees.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 13th, 2012
7:46 pm
’scuse me…”least productive”
Linda
January 13th, 2012
7:46 pm
It seems to me that there are more of you blogging here who have seen the light, that is, the light that the US is heading into the wrong direction & that Obama is leading the US down the wrong path. How many of you voted for Obama & will not do so again, & why not?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 13th, 2012
7:50 pm
Linda
7:29 pm
——–
Ouch.
Well played. B*tchslap is a dessert best served cold.
MarkV
January 13th, 2012
7:53 pm
Barney Frank @7:29 pm: “Didn’t see European stats in here.”
Why would you? There are no socialist countries in Europe. They exist only in the ignorant fantasies of people like you.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 13th, 2012
7:54 pm
How many didn’t vote for Obozo last time, and regret it? That’s a number very close to zero.
MarkV
January 13th, 2012
8:01 pm
Tiberius @ 7:41 pm
I will break my usual rule of not responding to people like you, people who know only how to present falsehoods and stupidities. With your miniscule brainpower you failed to notice that the standard of living was not the issue, that nobody expressed any admire for those countries. So keep your idiocies for yourself or show them to everybody, I could not care less.
td
January 13th, 2012
8:04 pm
Linda,
From an unscientific poll of my Face book friends, I have 20 friends that voted for Obama in 08. 4 of those friends now say they made a huge mistake and will vote for whomever the Republican nominee is. I have one other friend that voted for Obama and said they will either vote for a third party candidate or will not vote at all. None of my friends that voted for other candidates in 08 have said they will vote for Obama in 08.
Rafe Hollister
January 13th, 2012
8:13 pm
Markv
Based on the stats you provided, are you willing to trade your freedom for a job?
Linda
January 13th, 2012
8:13 pm
MarkV@7:53, My 7:09 was meant for you & your other progressives. THIS Barney, not yours from Mass., is intuitive & has a bunch of common sense. Ignorant fantasies? Dream on!
Disgusted
January 13th, 2012
8:16 pm
None of my friends that voted for other candidates in 08 have said they will vote for Obama in 08.
You need to widen your circle of friends, td. You can’t hang around racist rednecks all your life.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
January 13th, 2012
8:23 pm
MarkV, when using data to describe the positives of a particular country, one usually looks at the TOTALITY of the countries in question, rather than focusing on just one single positive note. Therefore, one has to take the good with the bad when trying to hold up certain countries for emulation, which you did not. It doesn’t really matter how successful a country is in curbing unemployment if a huge majority of their citizens don’t have running water or electricity, and live in relative squalor compared to almost everybody else.
Now, to your rather chippy remarks to me. I realize that it is difficult for certain people to be called out for being just plain wrong in public, which is why you post under another name. Personally, I wouldn’t like to be as publicly wrong as you are on the issues and have my name out there, either. And before you go there, I use a pseudonym due to being cyber-stalked on another site, so that stops your first inclination to attack me again as well.
Now, MarkV, I suggest one thing for you to try (along with a modicum of civility): reality. It will serve you well in discussions on this blog.
Linda
January 13th, 2012
8:35 pm
MarkV@8:01, For a seemingly intelligent guy, it’s too bad you can’t carry on an intellectual discussion. You couldn’t be as smart as you appear to be without being an avid reader, but you must have missed that book, “Winning Friends & Influencing People.” You can’t indoctrinate folks when you call them liars, stupid, idiots, with miniscule brainpower, etc. Maybe you “failed to notice” your arrogance & how Tiberius or any other conservative could “not care less” about how you could “not care less.”
MarkV
January 13th, 2012
8:47 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate! @8:23 pm: “MarkV, when using data to describe the positives of a particular country, one usually looks at the TOTALITY of the countries in question, rather than focusing on just one single positive note.”
One more time, because you apparently are unable to understand even simple things, there was nothing in those posts about positives of a particular country. It was a question of unemployment, pure and simple. I am fed up with people like you who distort what is being discussed just to make stupid attacks. As for civility, I am also fed up with liars like you who accuse of “posting under another name.”
Linda
January 13th, 2012
8:48 pm
td@8:04, You need to motivate your friends to vet candidates they plan to vote for in 11/12. It’s amazing how many people base their opinions on yard signs, pre-internet, natl., state & local. I knew Obama was who he was before 11/08, but I had no idea he would be so “transforming,” as he promised. Make sure your friends know that this will be the most important election in the history of our country. Keep up your good work.
MarkV
January 13th, 2012
8:50 pm
Linda @8:35 pm
Your post is duly noted and dismissed as nonsense. As I have just written to Tiberius, I am fed up with distortions and lies. If you call what he is doing “intelligent discussion,” that is your privilege, but do not expect me to share your view.
Vampire Vulture Capitalist
January 13th, 2012
8:53 pm
@UGA 1999 January 13th, 2012 12:37 pm – Bart….maybe the ones that “lost their livelihoods” should have worked harder and been a more valuable asset to the company.
________________________________________________
Drain ‘em dry Mitt.
the red herring
January 13th, 2012
8:55 pm
america will need a savior after obama’s four years. when trying to save companies and jobs it is impossible to not lose some jobs. i’m no romney fan but if anything his work in trying to downsize companies in order to save them puts him in good standing for trying to downsize the federal government in order to save the country. it has to be done—the sooner the better— research how much obama has increased federal government employment and also how much he has increased the deficit since taking office. he simply can’t blame bush for everything he has done—the buck stops at his own door. time for “change” for sure— “hoping” for it will not work—the voters will turn out in droves to get rid of this guy… the sooner the better. ABO –anybody but obama will do— i’m starting to agree with the young people — was for herman cain early on but ron paul seems to make a lot of sense.
Linda
January 13th, 2012
9:00 pm
Digusted@8:16, did td fail to mention that many of her friends were black? If you have a problem with rednecks, maybe you are yourself prejudicial. Rednecks get their red necks from working hard outside in the sun. What an arrogant statement!
td
January 13th, 2012
9:01 pm
Linda
January 13th, 2012
8:48 pm
Only if you knew how hard I have been trying Linda. Most of the people my age did not discover FB until after the 08 election.The communication and education campaign has begun in full force. I think we did a pretty good job in 10 within the state of Georgia but now we shall see if the social networks can work as well for the conservatives as it did for the libs in 08.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
January 13th, 2012
9:02 pm
MarkV, your inability to understand simple concepts is astounding.
If you tout a low unemployment percentage for a particular country, you open yourself up to ALL the good and bad that country has. Whether you like it or not, low unemployment figures mean nothing to any RATIONAL discussion if that’s ALL you’re going to look at. It would be the equivalent of saying we should elect Mitt Romney because he has nice hair, and simply ignore all the other things about him.
Of course, as a typical lib, seeing only one point to an argument is status quo for your kind. You’re incapable of making a logical, fact-based argument so you resort to vindictive posts and name calling.
I get it.
Linda
January 13th, 2012
9:02 pm
Tiberius@8:23, Excuse me for trying to defend you. Evidently, you can take care of yourself. More power to you.
td
January 13th, 2012
9:08 pm
MarkV
January 13th, 2012
8:47 pm
Why are you such an angry person? I have seen nothing Linda or Tiberius has written that does not contain a very large amount of accurate information. Your post have truth but for the most part the truth is spun to foster your particular view of the world. I pretty much disagree with your view but I am not on hear calling you names.
Linda
January 13th, 2012
9:10 pm
Mark@8:47, I’ve already told you several times. You can’t tell or refer to folks that they are “unable to understand,” “even simple things,” “people like you who distort,” & “liars” & expect them to cuddle up to you in your quest for promoting the progressive agenda. I realize that progressives think everyone else is stupid, but you are foolish to tell them so.
Linda
January 13th, 2012
9:13 pm
MarkV@8:50, It’s nonsense for me to call you smart & an avid reader? I see. My bad!
Vampire Vulture Capitalist
January 13th, 2012
9:30 pm
@the red herring January 13th, 2012 8:55 pm – america will need a savior after obama’s four years. when trying to save companies and jobs it is impossible to not lose some jobs. i’m no romney fan but if anything his work in trying to downsize companies in order to save them puts him in good standing for trying to downsize the federal government in order to save the country. it has to be done—the sooner the better—
************************************************
Parlez-vous francais?
Vampire Vulture Capitalist
January 13th, 2012
9:35 pm
@td January 13th, 2012 8:04 pm –
From an unscientific poll of my Face book friends, I have 20 friends that voted for Obama in 08. 4 of those friends now say they made a huge mistake and will vote for whomever the Republican nominee is. I have one other friend that voted for Obama and said they will either vote for a third party candidate or will not vote at all. None of my friends that voted for other candidates in 08 have said they will vote for Obama in 08.
______________________________________
heeheehee
har, har, har
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Who cares?