When tycoons and politicians do business, taxpayers lose
If your blood hasn’t boiled in awhile, you must have missed the AJC story earlier this week about Range Fuels — a multimillion-dollar lesson in why taxpayers usually lose when billionaires with hare-brained schemes sidle up to politicians.
It’s been about a year since Range Fuels shut down its facility in Soperton, the South Georgia town where it had promised to turn our state into a world leader in turning wood into ethanol. There was just one problem: Range didn’t actually know how to turn wood into ethanol. The resulting failure cost taxpayers $64 million in federal loan guarantees and another $6 million in state funds.
This past week, the AJC’s Dan Chapman reported the sale of Range for a mere $5.1 million. The lucky bargain shopper? A New Zealand firm bankrolled by Vinod Khosla — the former tech executive who just happens to have been one of the main backers of Range.
Too bad Georgia didn’t invest in one of Khosla’s other ethanol endeavors: In its 2011 ranking of the richest Americans, Forbes described Khosla as “the rare Silicon Valley venture capitalist able to generate profits from a clean tech portfolio.” I’m sure his portfolio’s profitability has nothing to do with the fact that taxpayers shoulder losses by the million on dogs like Range Fuels.
To the degree the public is upset about inequality, the anger seems to stem less from the existence of inequality — which we’ve always had, and always will — and more from the belief that the inequal gains were ill-gotten. The belief that the system is being rigged.
The Occupy movement blames this chiefly on bankers and big business generally, the tea partyers on big government. They are both right when they notice the overlap between their respective targets.
Both parties are guilty of enabling this overlap. Range Fuels was handed money by a GOP governor, Sonny Perdue, and the Republican Bush administration; solar-panel flop Solyndra by the Democratic Obama administration. Both George W. Bush and Barack Obama oversaw bailouts of financial firms and auto makers. Need I go on?
And while failures make headlines, the relative successes line private pockets with public largesse, too.
The timing of this lesson couldn’t have come at a better time. As Georgia’s leaders mull ways to spur the economy during the 2012 legislative session, Range Fuels should be an indelible reminder of the folly of using taxpayer dollars and tax-code loopholes to enrich private firms and individuals.
That goes for the CAPCO scheme, which hands money over to private companies to invest without retaining a stake for the state.
That goes for any other effort that calls for the state to invest directly in private firms — an enticing opportunity for corruption now and years into the future.
That even goes for using hotel/motel tax revenues, once they are freed up from paying off the Georgia Dome, to build an outdoor stadium that will accomplish little besides cannibalizing the Dome’s business and making a lot more money for the Falcons.
The hidden danger of economic downturns is that they invite all manner of bad decisions made with scarcer-than-ever public monies, all in the name of “jobs.”
Yes, Georgia needs jobs. And, yes, there are things Georgia’s leaders can do to encourage their creation. But we don’t need more “friends” like Vinod Khosla, or more misadventures like Range Fuels.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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232 comments Add your comment
GT
January 6th, 2012
5:54 pm
We need to track this more closely, not just make it a macro story. The details need to go out so we don’t do this again. I am afraid states and federal governments are like the community S&Ls who are not equipped to be making these big discussions. I bet there is not but a hand full of people in this state that could be qualified to think in these terms and none of them are politicians.
That is a landfill plastic recycling operation in Cordele that had the same fate. Grass root small business that grows organically is the door out of this recession. These huge numbers for public offers or half baked ideas like Range or the landfill is not how business evolves. Follow the money and I bet it ended up in the pockets of Wall Street not main street. And they will tell you they earned it.
The REAL GodHatesTrash, Superstar
January 6th, 2012
6:01 pm
Georgia has the best legislators money can buy. And they are cheap cheap cheap because they are stupid stupid stupid.
Santa Klausen
January 6th, 2012
6:11 pm
Wood into ethanol indeed.
catlady
January 6th, 2012
6:19 pm
I’m tired of stuff like this. Let me add to your list, Kyle: That state tax write-off for donating to a tuition fund for many private schools (K-12). It takes money away from public needs and converts it to private schools–it is WRONG!
spaceman109
January 6th, 2012
6:27 pm
kyle….this article is most welcome. it should remind commenters like td that republicans are just as into gommint giveaways “in the name of jobs” as are democrats. i seem to recall that many free-marketeers believe that a company should stand or fall on its own rather than getting gommint handouts. soooo….where was the outrage among georgia repubs when this company got those handouts? i guess such handouts are totally nifty so long as the g.o.p. does it.
spaceman109
January 6th, 2012
6:27 pm
i shall see you all again at 9 when lunch break comes!
redneckbluedog
January 6th, 2012
6:35 pm
So is Mitt a tycoon or a politician..!?!?
redneckbluedog
January 6th, 2012
6:39 pm
To that point exactly…..you would be FOR or AGAINST the Keystone XL pipeline…!?!? Because there’s some pretty heavy hitting going on with both tycoons and politicians on that one….
Personally, I support the pipeline…and I supported Range Fuels as well as Solyndra…the road to energy independence is not going to be smooth, but we have no choice….
redneckbluedog
January 6th, 2012
6:40 pm
Almost forgot….Johnson/Paul…2012….
bluecoat
January 6th, 2012
6:45 pm
Our elected need leave the financing of new or old enterprise to the venture capitalist.Remodeling old motels, converting celluose,peanut hulls,kudzu whatever to fuel.I think corn to ethanol still being susidized.at a cost of more to produce,than energy gained.
bluecoat
January 6th, 2012
6:51 pm
cellulose
Hillbilly D
January 6th, 2012
6:54 pm
When tycoons and politicians do business, taxpayers lose
That’s why government needs to stay the hell out of business and picking winners and losers. No subsidies, no tax breaks, no nothing.
If Vinod Khosla making out like a bandit on this isn’t illegal, it damn sure ought to be.
To the degree the public is upset about inequality, the anger seems to stem less from the existence of inequality — which we’ve always had, and always will — and more from the belief that the inequal gains were ill-gotten. The belief that the system is being rigged.
Kyle, you hit the nail on the head there Bud. All of us in the Great Unwashed know that things are never going to be equal, we just ask them not to piss in our ear and tell us it’s raining.
bluecoat
January 6th, 2012
6:56 pm
who in their right mind would not support the pipeline?It means work for us.But we do not want to contaminate our water.When done do safely.
redneckbluedog
January 6th, 2012
7:00 pm
The government understands the scarcity of oil…Most folks don’t….Do you think they would be building a “TAR SANDS PIPELINE” if you could just turn on the oil faucet..? VC won’t invest money until they can get returns……The government has to act BEFORE oil gets to $500/barrel….and they’re not all going to be winners….
Do you think the TVA didn’t have problems…It’s still having problems…National Labs, The Hoover Dam, the Pentagon…Lot’s of discussion went into all these…But I’m glad they pushed forward….One the other hand..”Star Wars” was a pretty big flop…I’m still looking forward to that one….The Road to Nowhere..!?!? Not so much….
redneckbluedog
January 6th, 2012
7:01 pm
Biodiesel is a better renewable answer than ethanol anyway….
hryder
January 6th, 2012
7:05 pm
Come November, Vote all incumbents holding public elected office OUT!!!!!!
bluecoat
January 6th, 2012
7:07 pm
Find and follow where your rep,sen,personally investing,buying property.Do same.
Dusty
January 6th, 2012
7:08 pm
I’m not sure I have all the crooks and turns of this story straightened out. Let’s see.
Ranger Co. says it knows how to make ethanol from pine trees. Wants to build plant in Georgia.
One participant & financier in Ranger is Khosia. He’s rich but not a builder.
Ranger tells Gov. Perdue they are good, make jobs, raise money but can’t build their own plant without help ($$$$)..
State & Federal money in the millions is found and given to Ranger. Plant built. Ranger CANNOT make ethanol. Investment totally lost, mostly State & federal money.
Bankrupt plant sold for far less than money borrowed. Buyer is Khosia who was one of the origianl pushers of Ranger. He now plans to produce ETHANOL and any profit is his.
Fed & state money *taxpayer’s $$$” is long gone.
This sounds more crooked than a snake, any way you put it. We’ve been took by a crook!
bluecoat
January 6th, 2012
7:22 pm
You never get too old to learn.Did not know VC only invested when they were getting returns.How many gallons in a barrel oil?Is it a valve or faucet.Tarsands pipeline,mean they gonna pump sand.How is a pentagon shaped?Where is TD to answere all these questions.
saywhat?
January 6th, 2012
7:26 pm
From glimpses of enlightenment like this, I think we may be able to eventually turn Kyle into somewhat of a progressive yet. It just may take a long, long, long time to fully deprogram him.
td
January 6th, 2012
7:34 pm
Sorry to be late to the party today but I had some customers that thought they were libs and were entitled to services without having to pay for them and I had to go convince them (Georgia redneck style) that this is still America and one has to pay for services rendered.
I found this quote for all the whiners on this blog that only know how to complain and never provide any answers.
“One of the penalties of not participating in politics is that you will be governed by your inferiors.”
Plato
td
January 6th, 2012
7:41 pm
You libs sound like crony capitalism is what conservatives are all about. Bunch of BS (Barbara Streisand). As Kyle pointed out this is going on on both sides of the political spectrum. This is what happens when you vote for people who think government has a role in every part of peoples lives and think governments role is to create jobs.
The REAL GodHatesTrash, Superstar
January 6th, 2012
7:48 pm
Thankfully, Mr. Khosla the billionaire won’t have to pay much tax on his ill-gotten gains since we still have the Bush tax cuts.
Jobs created? Zero, zed, nada.
Rafe Hollister
January 6th, 2012
7:49 pm
That outdoor stadium absolutely is the biggest boondoogle ever to hit this state. If the State Gov provides one dime to the Arthur Blank enrichment fund, I think I may move. There is nothing wrong with the Dome. The SEC says they will move the SEC Championship if they have to play it outdoors. The Peach/Chick-Fil-A bowl was a loser before the Dome.
Blank snickers when he says he needs a smaller outdoor venue. He wants less seats to sell, so that he can charge more per seat, and create competition for the seats. That means he will have less incentive to keep the fans happy, just let them quit coming, he has a waiting list of stupid people wanting to buy a ticket. He wants more suites, he gets paid for those on an annual basis, and when corporate fans get disgusted and quit filing up the suites no one notices and he still gets rent.
Government needs to get out and stay out of corporate affairs. Green energy will never catch on until we get close to running out of cheap and reliable oil. Given permission to explore and develop that is years in the future. Stop the money for these green energy boondoogles.
Hillbilly D
January 6th, 2012
7:56 pm
I don’t care what kind of stadium Arthur Blank has or where he builds it, as long as there is not one dime of public money involved.
Bullet County
January 6th, 2012
8:19 pm
Kyle,
Well said.
@@
January 6th, 2012
8:22 pm
Range didn’t actually know how to turn wood into ethanol.
And we didn’t know that beforehand!!??!! You can bet a venture capitalist wouldn’t have invested before researching THAT little detail.
Stories like this give me gas.
The Snark
January 6th, 2012
8:26 pm
Agree 100% with your comments, but … not really appropriate to put “auto bailouts” in the same bucket with the rest of these fiascos. Whether you think it was government’s role to intervene (and I respect the views of anyone who says it wasn’t) the auto bailout has been pretty damn successful. I’d hate to think where our unemployment figures would be right now if GM and Chrysler had gone belly up. Instead, there’s a lot of people working for them and their suppliers today, and profitability is coming back. All in all, not the same kind of deal as Range or Salyndra or CAPCOs.
The Snark
January 6th, 2012
8:28 pm
td:
Perhaps you can explain how Sonny Perdue left the Governor’s office a richer man than when he entered it. Here’s a hint: the “libs” (whoever they are) didn’t do it.
mike
January 6th, 2012
8:34 pm
Ole Sunny involved ? Well that answers everything.
Rafe Hollister
January 6th, 2012
8:34 pm
Snark
Why justify the auto bailouts by claiming jobs were saved. If that is so, why is Oblamer laying off 500,000 soldiers and Marines, maybe we should bail out the Def Dept.
If these bailouts were so successful, why are we subsidizing the Chevy Volt by $250,000 per vehicle. Seems to me Kyle is right, Gov throwing good money after bad.
td
January 6th, 2012
8:34 pm
The Snark
January 6th, 2012
8:28 pm
If you had been reading any of my post for the past several years then you would know that I thought Sonny was nothing more then a RINO. If it was not for the job he did with reducing the budget and hurting k-12 education the least amount as possible without raising taxes then I would think he was no better of a governor then Roy Barnes.
Rafe Hollister
January 6th, 2012
8:46 pm
@@
Stories like this give me gas.
Must be why The Snark left us!
Dusty
January 6th, 2012
8:59 pm
Why did Ranger NOT know how to make ethanol? Is that not what the owner now, the infamous Mr. Khosia is planning to do ? Make ethanol at the same plant? Or does he have other plans? It seems that this plan with pine trees to ethanol is something that can be done. But not Ranger!!!
I think Gov Perdue got fooled just like a lot of other people and he wanted jobs. He was rich before he became governor. Surely all the agencies that were involved investigated this plan. As @@ suggested, surely some venture captalist must have taken a better look at this project.
Although a lot of people were fooled completely, we cannot grow without new ventures.
But, as Hillbilly suggested, build anything you want but don’t use taxpayer money to do it.
spaceman109
January 6th, 2012
9:14 pm
stories like this one (and thousands more which are similar) make me wish i could just retire from a business world which is, in my humble opinion, ethically and morally bankrupt….and shot clean through with cronyism and corruption.
o well….just gotta keep doing what i do. gotta do something with my all energy!
spaceman109
January 6th, 2012
9:15 pm
by the way….cronyism knows no political party. just ask jon corzine
ByteMe
January 6th, 2012
9:22 pm
As @@ suggested, surely some venture captalist must have taken a better look at this project.
Surely they did. Private investors lost about $150 million on the boondoggle and the aforementioned Khosla is a VC. That’s what he does for a living after making millions helping to start Sun Microsystems.
ByteMe
January 6th, 2012
9:24 pm
BTW, Kyle, this column has a much more defensible position than the one you took a few days ago where instead of giving it directly to businesses you wanted to give state pension money to VCs who somehow wouldn’t screw it up.
@@
January 6th, 2012
9:38 pm
Rafe:
Must be why The Snark left us!
Happy to help.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 6th, 2012
9:46 pm
Soperton and the failed Chevy Vilt are what happens when the government tries to replace free markets.
Big, expensive fail.
Michael H. Smith
January 6th, 2012
9:47 pm
the auto bailout has been pretty damn successful.
Yeah, for the UAW union!
I hope they like the car company we U.S. taxpayers bought for them. Good to see they’re making those GM cars (the ones that catch fire) in China as well.
Then again, these are the reasons is why I now only buy Hyundai (parent company of KIA) made right here in the good old USA (Alabama and Georgia) by well paid non-union American workers.
bluecoat
January 6th, 2012
10:07 pm
TD @734 what you are describing is theft and liberals do not excluvisly own that title.
Freedom Lover
January 6th, 2012
10:09 pm
The Washington Post is out with a story and quite telling graphic that shows the number of billionaires that have donated to each of the presidential candidates including the president.
The big winner – Mitt Romney with 40. Follow with 30 by the President (you know, the guy who represents the 1%). And in last place, Ron Paul with 0 donations from billionaires.
Here is the link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/billionaire-donors/2011/12/05/gIQAa3spXO_graphic.html
Now Ron has plenty of donations from millionaires, but way more from the common man. You know, in this day and age, you can become a millionaire with hard work, some good investments, and the like, but it takes manipulating the government tax structure, regulatory apparatus, subsidy mechanism, and protectionist trade system to become a billionaire. I mean even Bill Gates made tons of money off government contracts. The US government owns 25% of all the PCs in the nation, and if you want to do business with the government you need to share files, etc. and they must be compatible. Don’t tell me that didn’t help sales of Microsoft products.
I guess if you are in agreement at all with this article, its obvious who the uncorruptible one is – but that has always been the case – Ron Paul. Ron Paul 2012. The last hope for america.
Freedom Lover
January 6th, 2012
10:13 pm
Oh, and by the way, the biggest contributors to Mitt Romney’s and the presidents campaigns (and their PACs) are Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, and other major banks. Shock, huh?
As a group, the biggest contributors to Ron Paul’s campaign are current and retired members of the US military. Check it out. Last quarter there were stories all over the internet from news organizations that spanned the spectrum from conservative to liberal that supported the evidence that is available on the Federal Election Commission web page.
I guess they like his foreign policy – but why wouldn’t they? They are the ones being sent to die for the empire and the military industrial complex rather than in defense of america.
Michael H. Smith
January 6th, 2012
10:13 pm
The folly of using taxpayer funds is the measure of whom or what is being enriched, Kyle. Not all government funding of market ventures are boondoggles, though admittedly, more seem to fail than succeed.
We might want to tie future government funding (or bulk thereof) to the actual results produced by a project, – not to the sales pitch or the rosy promises made – before we turn over taxpayer money to these people.
When tycoons and politicians do business, taxpayers lose – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) | Business Idea Research
January 6th, 2012
10:16 pm
[...] When tycoons and politicians do business, taxpayers loseAtlanta Journal Constitution (blog)The Occupy movement blames this chiefly on bankers and big business generally, the tea partyers on big government. They are both right when they notice the overlap between their respective targets. Both parties are guilty of enabling this overlap. …and more » [...]
Cutty
January 6th, 2012
10:30 pm
It’s Obama’s fault!!
Thought I’d get that out the way.
Michael H. Smith
January 6th, 2012
10:37 pm
Cutty
January 6th, 2012
10:30 pm
Well, at least it is an honest start.
yuzeyurbrane
January 6th, 2012
11:17 pm
Kyle is right on this one. Unfortunately, this is an old old Georgia tradition with no party label.
Lynn
January 6th, 2012
11:22 pm
Yes, by golly, you “got it”, Kyle. As one example: How fair would have it been of Georgia to have exempted corporate jet parts from sales tax, just to turn around and start taxing LABOR for auto repairs? Not very.
Seeking fairness, is not inherently class warfare.
td
January 6th, 2012
11:56 pm
Lynn
January 6th, 2012
11:22 pm
Excellent example and reason we should have a consumption tax with no exemptions. The only true “fair” tax system.
Joel Edge
January 7th, 2012
4:50 am
Amen, Kyle. I live almost within rock throwing distance of the Range Fuel facility. All the money has just vanished. The vetting process for these schemes has got to be improved.
The REAL GodHatesTrash, Superstar
January 7th, 2012
5:22 am
Lynn, “fairness” is class warfare is socialism is pure evil.
People that have more money than you are better than you, and you should bow and scrape before them.
Ayn Rant
January 7th, 2012
5:32 am
Wealthy scoundrels will always outwit, or buy off, the elected politicians who are our state “leaders”. The public, which is the loser in these cash and carry deals, will beg for more abuse come next election.
JF McNamara
January 7th, 2012
5:44 am
In investment, you win and lose. That goes for Solyndra and Range fuels. Solyndra didn’t work, but the stimulus did. Range Fuels didn’t work, but film subsidies did.
Unless the entire portfolio is taking massive losses, the stop whining about cherry picked losers. Yave you done that, or are you just writing angry articles.
Before I get jumped on, GDP is rising and unemployment is falling, and it is directly tied to the stimulus. It worked.
marko
January 7th, 2012
6:18 am
The occupy crowd’s upset with big business, and the tea bunch is in a tizzy over big government. It will be interesting to see what happens when they figure out they’re mad at the same thing. Will we never learn that the ones that finance the campaigns are the ones pulling Senator Pinocchio’s strings. One day Newt’s a knight in shinning armor. A few million dollars later, he’s a turd on the side of the road. Is this really anyway for a sane people to govern themselves?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 7th, 2012
6:33 am
JF McNamara: GDP is rising and unemployment is falling, and it is directly tied to the stimulus. It worked.
————————–
Putting a halt to most of Obozo’s agenda starting in January 2011 worked.
If we’re lucky, Americans will finish the job this coming November, evict Obozo from our White House, and take America back from those who would like to bring her low and from the Democrats. Oops, same thing.
GT
January 7th, 2012
8:20 am
I think the tycoon is the other side of the equation that is not highlighted enough. I agree government has no business in private business, but I also think business men have no business in government. It is almost the separation of state and religion thing. These politicians fall in love with tycoons like they were rock stars. Jimmy Carter became president because his little girl used the Cox’s swimming pool across the street. Politicians become like pro sport’s teams to the rich, only with these paid for politicians the tycoon can makes a ton of money without stockholders looking over their shoulders.
Halliburton is like a second woman hanging around a married man’s house. You might not be able to prove anything but you know something is going on. Why do these companies have to be so big? Lots of places to hide lots of laundry in a big company. I know brilliant men that have a hand full running small companies and there is no where for the money to hide because there is not much money and every cent is needed for capital, not lobbying and God knows what.
carlosgvv
January 7th, 2012
8:23 am
Kyle, it’s no supprise that putting politicians and Big Business together is nothing but bad news for taxpayers. I am amazed that you are finally admiting it.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 7th, 2012
8:31 am
“Tycoons” are just free people doing what’s in their best interests. Lobbying the government gets results and is perfectly in keeping with our constitutional right to petition our government. Blaming the “tycoons” is like blaming the addicts. If you have a problem with crony capitalism, go after the dealers, not the addicts.
carlosgvv
January 7th, 2012
8:54 am
Barry
“Lobbying the government” for tycoons means bribing the politicians any way and every way they can. Politicians pay attention to those who have the most cash to distribuite. I don’t think this is what the founding fathers had in mind.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 7th, 2012
8:56 am
carlosgvv, I agree wholeheartedly. The founding fathers most certainly didn’t have in mind that government would grow so big and all-powerful that the way to business success went through Washington.
carlosgvv
January 7th, 2012
9:20 am
Barry
It’s the other way around. The way to political success is to go thru all-powerful Big Business and do what you are told, when you are told. Especially if you are Republican.
Rafe Hollister
January 7th, 2012
9:24 am
Lil Barry makes a good point here, don’t miss it. A constitutionally based small government dedicated to do “only” those tasks assigned it by the Constitution, would not have the money available to be picking winners and losers, and rewarding the friends of the elected.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 7th, 2012
9:24 am
Sorry, carlos, but business people don’t elect politicians. The people do. The politicians are supposed to work for us. Business people work for the shareholders and what they do within the law really isn’t any of our business. Lobbying is perfectly legal and constitutional. If you have a problem with the business/government relationship, focus on the part that is within the people’s responsibility to control.
GT
January 7th, 2012
9:28 am
Nor did the founding fathers see business growing so big. This country was founded on individual rights. The only people who would be against that are the ones it does not help. Hitler was not a big individual rights guy. I bet if his bare body was being delivered to a gas chamber he might have had a political epiphany. There is a “hello” moment in most “liberal” thinking, I prefer to call it moderate, and it usually is a personal experience while conservatives just want to be fat and happy and left alone to bother other people.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 7th, 2012
9:29 am
carlosgvv: do what you are told, when you are told. Especially if you are Republican.
—————————–
Get real. GM. Chrysler. Solyndra. Fisker. GE. Obozo is the most criminal crony capitalist ever. And I only include the word “capitalist” in that statement since that’s the popular terminology. There’s nothing “capitalist” about Obozo. He’s a bought and paid for liberal fascist.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 7th, 2012
9:31 am
GT: Nor did the founding fathers see business growing so big.
———————
Point?
Ross Perot
January 7th, 2012
9:33 am
My father was a brilliant man, one of 8 men in the world licensed to operate all make of Nuclear power plants in the world working his way up as a street thug through the nuclear navy. Prior to his passing in the mid 90’s his most memorable pieces of thought on what would ruin this country are as follows:
Letting either party have control of government. Vote checks and balances.
Letting speculators make money off of fuel.
Allowing lobbyists to have access to policy makers.
Not using more Nuke plants to energize the country, France is actually a leader in this area.
Not imposing term limits.
And his favorite saying, “The opposite of progress is congress”
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 7th, 2012
9:34 am
I doubt you’d want (or have the financial means) to buy an automobile or a gallon of gas or a flat screen TV from a small business.
GT
January 7th, 2012
10:00 am
Point is “too big to fail businesses” were not in the vocabulary of the founding fathers. Government interfering in business is like genetic farming. We have evolved a freak not intended by nature and certain immune to conventional controls of the economy or government. We don’t know what is private money any more and what is government or public money. Now you have these vampires lobbying congress to continue the same dysfunctional, non productive, self gratifying, schemes that got us into this recession in the first place.
Bush prides himself on not pardoning ex criminals in his last days of office yet he pardoned active criminals by the thousands in his bank bailouts. One was a ,written, constitutional given right the other was never dreamed of in the parlor of Philadelphia I assure you. One was politically beneficial to raise money for private pacts, the original pardon was more a sense of humanity by a country that use to believe in such.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 7th, 2012
10:07 am
We’d be better off in the long run letting failed businesses go under. The government makes “too big to fail” possible by engaging in bailouts.
More government involvement, more bailouts.
More government involvement, suckier schools.
More government involvement, more illegitimate children without families.
More government involvement, fewer manufacturing jobs.
No, I don’t see a pattern here.
redneckbluedog
January 7th, 2012
10:07 am
Good morning…I’m back…The auto bailout was very successful….GM is adding more jobs in Detroit….and Fiat is buying a larger stake in Chrysler….and TN and GA are banging out the cars….
Watched McLaughlin last nite….It’s going to be Romney/Christie and Obama/Biden……Rubio is too risky…Could turn out to be another Palin…..Chances are it won’t come down to Florida anyway….Florida will be in play, though….but so will Virginia, Indiana, Ohio, North Carolina, Arkansas, Missouri, and Colorado……..
This is a good time to mention my third party hopefuls: Johnson/Paul….the only true conservative choice….They WILL show their tax returns and they AREN’T Mormon….and they aren’t Trump…
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 7th, 2012
10:10 am
Yes, you’re back, and so is your bigotry.
redneckbluedog
January 7th, 2012
10:17 am
I’m not a bigot….I’m just a Christian who cares about “the soul of America”…..
Rafe Hollister
January 7th, 2012
10:17 am
A Johnson/Paul vote is a vote for Oblamer! Divide and conquer.
redneckbluedog
January 7th, 2012
10:18 am
And actually, manufacturing jobs are up for the first time in 30 years….
redneckbluedog
January 7th, 2012
10:18 am
And my vice-presidential hopeful, Ron Paul, is a bigot, too…..
redneckbluedog
January 7th, 2012
10:19 am
Supposedly…
redneckbluedog
January 7th, 2012
10:20 am
If you want real conservative change, you have to be willing to work for it…and lay it all on the line….Romney is no more a conservative than he is a Christian…
bluecoat
January 7th, 2012
10:36 am
Party don’t matter much anymore.Cronyism name of game.Obama will never totally fit in.Racism is well and alive.It’s boiling down to middle class,poor,minorities need align against rich,corporations.They got rich off the poor mans sweat,and continue to take in form of taxes,inflation.
Hillbilly D
January 7th, 2012
10:37 am
On the subject of small business, there is a small independent oil company (the name escapes me), in SE Kentucky. Its market is a small area but as well as getting the oil out of the ground, it also has it’s own filling stations. When I was there, there gas was routinely the lowest priced in the area.
GT
January 7th, 2012
10:43 am
Hillbilly that was the Steve Jobs idea of vertical corporations. The consumer has a better experience. The experience of cheaper pricing is always a good experience.
Rafe Hollister
January 7th, 2012
10:49 am
Hillbilly D
We need more of that small business innovation, that is a good story.
Unfortunately the big ole Feds will find out they are doing well and move in with their environmental regulations, complicated tax rules, and oversight. The company will have trouble raising the money to comply, and a big company, with the money to buy off a congressman or two, will offer to buy them out. Happens every day in modern America.
Today our government wants to be in control, above all else.
Hillbilly D
January 7th, 2012
11:06 am
Rafe
It’s my understanding that that oil company has been in business for many years. Wish I could remember more details.
The experience of cheaper pricing is always a good experience.
I wouldn’t completely agree with that. In some cases, it’s true but you can look at the retail sector and see the drawbacks. Hard to find anything you want to buy that will last anymore or find any real service at the purchase point. One way they keep those prices low is by hiring people who don’t know a thing about their products, which are made to be sold at as low a price as possible, and if the purchased product doesn’t last a month, nobody seems to care. Too many people have come to the conclusion that it’s better to buy a product multiple times, than to buy once and have it last for many years.
MrLiberty
January 7th, 2012
11:09 am
Hey Kyle, thanks for making the case for supporting Ron Paul in the primary. As the only candidate speaking out against corporatism (the version of capitalism that has plagued this nation for at least the last 150 years), he is clearly the only one looking to return the power back to small business, the consumer, and the american people.
Rafe Hollister
January 7th, 2012
11:34 am
Hillbilly D
Is it Ashland Oil. I worked up there in the 80’s occassionally and that name comes to mind.
Rafe Hollister
January 7th, 2012
11:45 am
I just looked up Ashland Oil, huge company, Fortune 250, 8 Billion in sales. They own Valvoline and Marathon, so they probably are not as well known, due to trading under other names.
They started in KY in the 20’s, but have grown to be a worldwide corporation, in trouble in 1988 for cooperating with the Iranian’s.
Hillbilly D
January 7th, 2012
11:52 am
Rafe
I don’t think it was Ashland but I could be wrong. It was based in Somerset, Ky., I believe, and it was probably 5 or 6 years ago that I was there. I remember it was cheaper than any other station around. I seem to remember it even being full service but that may not be right. The ol’ memory ain’t what it once was. Several years ago, I read an article about them somewhere. I think they only serve SE Kentucky and perhaps a small part of Tennessee. Maybe somebody from up that way, will know.
Dr. J.
January 7th, 2012
11:53 am
The only decent editorial from the AJC in ages. I commend you, Mr. Wingfield.
Hillbilly D
January 7th, 2012
11:53 am
I typed that before I saw your 11:45. It wouldn’t be Ashland, though.
David
January 7th, 2012
12:17 pm
I second what Dr. J. said. I can’t even believe Kyle wrote this. Look at this:
“The Occupy movement blames this chiefly on bankers and big business generally, the tea partyers on big government. They are both right when they notice the overlap between their respective targets.”
That’s good, fair balanced stuff; without insult and with an understanding of each side’s point of view. Not the sort of thing you’d normally see in an AJC blog.
Gimme Gimme Gimme
January 7th, 2012
12:27 pm
Hillbilly@11:06 Too many people have come to the conclusion that it’s better to buy a product multiple times, than to buy once and have it last for many years.
My parents bought a living room/dining room set in 1968. The have had it reupholstered to upgrade the look but that furniture is a solid as the day they bought it, nothing wobbles or is cracked. The furniture you see today will last a few years before it is falling apart.
Gimme Gimme Gimme
January 7th, 2012
12:29 pm
David – That’s good, fair balanced stuff; without insult and with an understanding of each side’s point of view. Not the sort of thing you’d normally see in an AJC blog.
I have noticed Kyle writes a pretty balanced blog. I feel like I am learning something when I read it and not get getting talking points with an agenda.
Dusty
January 7th, 2012
12:53 pm
David,
It is quite easy to believe that Kyle wrote this article. He is an ethical man trying not to fall into the trap of slanted journalism so evident in other “journalists” at AJC. He seems committed to fairness and I hope he does not change. I don’t think he will.
In the meantime, I wonder how our leaders in government are going to help the economy. Most states can’t even encourage big projects without the help of the federal government but state and fed are deep in debt. Then the venture capitalist/project comes along sounding good and the states take a chance. Then we know what might happen and what did.
So what is the solution? What choice do governors have? Should they never take a chance ? Can any investigation in business really assure success? Can small business alone improve the economy? (I don’t think so.) Raising taxes only kills the consumers ability to buy. I’m just wondering what options are out there.
Linda
January 7th, 2012
12:57 pm
Noticed that most of the companies mentioned so far above were green energy companies. Our Dept. of Energy has been around since Carter, still trying to find alternative energy sources. Where would the US be today if the govt. had not spend billions upon billions of dollars searching for alternatives AND sending billions upon billions of our wealth to other countries for oil? Where would we be if we had just used our own natural resources under our feet? What if the government had just stayed out of the free market & allowed private energy companies to produce our energy?
The “green” agenda is totally out of control. Groceries are outrageous. There’s 40,000 products in the grocery store that use corn. Meat is outrageous since animals eat corn. Gas prices & the cost of delivery are outrageous because of the govt.’s limit on drilling & refining oil. Utilities are skyrocketing, as Obama promised. Coal plants are closing. Jobs are vanishing.
redneckbluedog
January 7th, 2012
1:07 pm
Rafe Hollister
January 7th, 2012
10:17 am
A Johnson/Paul vote is a vote for Oblamer! Divide and conquer
—————————————————————————————-
Romney is going to get creamed on his own anyway….He is a fake and a phoney….A fake Christian and a phoney conservative….Obama is no Jimmy Carter nor another Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, nor Kerry…and Romney is no Reagan, nor Bush I….and Bush II is still not all that popular….
Conservatives would be best served to vote their convictions….I intend to support Johnson/Paul, otherwise, Obama/Biden will get my vote….
Linda
January 7th, 2012
1:09 pm
Much has been debated & argued about the cause of this Great Recession. From personal experience, I know that the match was lit in the ’90’s with an ideology that homeownership was a right, not a privilege. That’s when conventional mortgage lending guidelines were relaxed & the GSEs given quotas for loans to low- & moderate-income buyers, especially minorities.
Of all the scenarios I have read, the report by the Republicans on the inquiry commission, appointed by Obama, was the most accurate synopsis. This recession would have never happened WITHOUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT’S INTERFERENCE INTO THE FREE MARKET!
redneckbluedog
January 7th, 2012
1:10 pm
Linda
January 7th, 2012
12:57 pm
————————–
Both BP and ExxonMobil estimate world crude oil supplies at about 50 years…….Those are the facts…You can dance around them all you want…..Nat gas is estimated at close to 200 yrs, but as the oil expires and nat gas use expands, the integrated estimate is 100yrs.
redneckbluedog
January 7th, 2012
1:11 pm
Linda
January 7th, 2012
1:09 pm
————————–
There’s plenty of blame to go around …..Are you interested in going backward or moving forward..?
Hillbilly D
January 7th, 2012
1:13 pm
I have noticed Kyle writes a pretty balanced blog.
I’d agree with that. Sometimes I agree with Kyle; many times I don’t. He and I have a different way of looking at things but you could say that about me and most of the human race. When I read his columns, though, even if I think he has it totally wrong, I feel that I’m reading his thoughts and not the party line from whatever perspective the issue takes. Most columns of this type read like a press release for either the Rs or the Ds. Now some writers are good enough to hide some of that and many aren’t. Kyle does a lot less of the “cut and paste” than some folks.
As to OWS and the Tea Party, I think it’s a valid point that they are really after the same target. OWS is attacking from the left flank and the Tea Party is attacking from the right flank. Both groups have their fringe element that they’d be better off without and tend to get into too much bloviating and hyperbole but that’s a danger with this sort of thing. What we need now is a good artillery barrage into the center, (that’s a metaphor; don’t take it literally) for the masses to carry the day.
Dusty
January 7th, 2012
1:19 pm
Linda,
Somehow I do not want to “throw out the baby with the bath water”. I don’t believe the effort towards green energy is totally wrong. Nor do I believe we can supply all the gas & oil we need in this country.
The push came too fast. Example, the Gore initiative to change everything giving us bad products, expensive projects and unrealistic regulations. There was the push for ethanol at any cost and all the other poorly thought out projects you mentioned.
Actially, if the government would stay out of “green energy”, private enterprise would probably have researched enough to give us real help on our energy supply.. Let them do it at their expense.
redneckbluedog
January 7th, 2012
1:30 pm
Dusty
January 7th, 2012
1:19 pm
—————————-
Private enterprise is not going to get into renewable energy until it becomes profitable…the government has to develop it to get it to that point….The only other option is failure….
Dusty
January 7th, 2012
1:38 pm
RedNeckBluedog,
:If you want to vote for a second term Obama, that is your privilege. If you cannot see the transparency of an inexperienced man depending on political cronies to run our country, you deserve a second term.
Unfortunately, that involves me and millions of others who know bad governance when they see it.
Republicans have not made their final decisions. They are not blind. They do not want another Obama downhill slope’n'drain. We are too close to hitting bottom now.
Linda
January 7th, 2012
1:45 pm
redneck@1:10, Recent reports from the US Geological Survey (USGS) have been astounding. Read them yourself.
redneck@1:11, I agree with the blame, especially that accepted by Clinton. I think the entire world, especially the American people, wanted to know what happened. I think Obama was right to appoint the inquiry commission. Moving forward without making the same mistakes again requires knowing what the mistakes were.
Dusty
January 7th, 2012
1:46 pm
redneckbluedog,
Big companies all over the USA are doing research in numerous and various projects which are not giving them profit now. That is part of their business.
Nowhere in our constitution does it say the government should be financing research. That is the inducement of private companies run by private citizens. It is what made America great. The government does not operate our lives or our business because we are free people.
Don’t start tying us down by saying ONLY government can do big things.
getalife
January 7th, 2012
1:51 pm
“One of the most recent retorts comes from Georgia, where last month Democratic state Rep. “Scott Holcomb introduced a bill requiring members of the local legislature to prove they’re not Legislating Under the Influence. Holcomb told HuffPost he came up with the idea because he was struck by a bill from his Republican colleagues to drug test welfare applicants.
“I was really struck by how awful it was,” he said. “I wanted to bring some attention to it.” Aol.
You found a leader Georgia.
Support him and throw pee on the gop.
Dusty
January 7th, 2012
1:54 pm
Sorry, LInda, I don’t think we need any more investigative committees. I think we need less.
If we can’t tell what causes our mistakes, we are not very clever. It is usually obvious.
Dusty
January 7th, 2012
1:57 pm
Getalife,
We are not running an outhouse here. Go home.
getalife
January 7th, 2012
1:59 pm
Lets start calling them the pee party.
Tycoons united with politicians is call fascism.
The pee party went too far right into na zi territory.
Linda
January 7th, 2012
2:03 pm
Dusty@1:19, What would happen if the fed. govt. stepped out of the way & energy companies could explore on the Outer Continental Shelf & on land & in water wherever individual states would allow it?
What would happen if the energy companies woke up one morning & realized our natural resources were being depleted? Think they would “discover” affordable alternative sources of energy–quick-like?
When will more people realize that global cooling from the ’70s, global warming from the ’90s & now miscellaneous climate change & cap & trade were the greatest hoaxes every pulled on the world?
Even if the world was getting hotter than a baked potato, who in their right mind would think that politicians in DC could “fix” it?
Dusty
January 7th, 2012
2:04 pm
Getalife,
Off your meds again, huh? Now say “goodbye” like a nice fellow.
getalife
January 7th, 2012
2:06 pm
dusty is now against investigations.
Oh my.
dusty,
How far right of the na zis are you going to go?
We are Americans not fascists.
Dusty
January 7th, 2012
2:19 pm
LInda,
I think you have made my point. The government cannot solve every problem. They are not even supposed to do that beyond the general welfare..
You short change big companies. They are looking for new sources, new and better products including medical needs. better planes, cars, housing, IT stuff and agriculture.. They know what shortages & problems are looming because they are in that business. They harness the American energy.
Americans have every innovative product in the world because American people in American companies have developed them. The “Now better from other countries” started with the American product and added a little to it. Then they made it cheaper with cheap labor.
I think America is the best place in the world to develop what is most needed here and globally. The government should only keep us free to do it.
bluecoat
January 7th, 2012
2:21 pm
I was hoping for Obama/Clinton ticket.Wonder who the mexican descendant will pick.Solar must come on strong.Think China leads it.
Dusty
January 7th, 2012
2:22 pm
Getalife,
Bye bye, baby….
getalife
January 7th, 2012
2:22 pm
dusty is a member of the pee party.
They do not stand up for freedom or our planet or our people.
They stand up and fight for the wealthy until the wealthy control all the wealth and our planet is destroyed.
Then dusty will say oops.
Jack
January 7th, 2012
2:27 pm
Run for political office; get elected and then do something other than complain.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 7th, 2012
2:30 pm
bluecoat: [Corporations] got rich off the poor mans sweat,and continue to take in form of taxes,inflation.
—————————
Another example of economic retardation.
Corporations get rich by providing products and services that people want. No one is forced to buy from or work for corporations. We do so because we want to.
Losers hate corporations because the successful ones are just another reminder of their own failures.
Losers–Get a job, get a haircut, no spare change.
Linda
January 7th, 2012
2:33 pm
Dusty, I think Reagan said it best. “Govt. is not the solution. Govt. is the problem.” If he only knew what the fed. govt. has involved itself in & the problems it has caused since his time. The progressive movement will destroy our govt. & our way of life if left unchecked.
I don’t short-change big companies. Without corporations, we would have no homes, no vehicles, no food, no clothes, no jobs & no stuff.
getalife
January 7th, 2012
2:37 pm
The stink of corruption is so bad even Kyle wrote about it.
Nice piece Kyle.
I tried getting wooten to write about it on his way out.
He is more like lil bar I guess and ignores corruption.
getalife
January 7th, 2012
2:48 pm
“Now that the most polarized and paralyzed Congress in memory has managed to kill one of its most resilient boondoggles — the three-decade-old, multibillion-dollar subsidy for corn ethanol — we hope it has not exhausted its resolve and will take a hatchet to other harmful energy subsidies, chiefly those it gives to fossil fuels.”
Cut big oil welfare.
redneckbluedog
January 7th, 2012
2:55 pm
Dusty
January 7th, 2012
1:38 pm
RedNeckBluedog
————————–
I am behind a Gary Johnson/Ron Paul ticket 100%…It is the only chance to truly take our country back…Without Karl Rove, Crossroads, Fox News, and Keith Olbermann telling us how to think about everything…
As to your point about R&D efforts to fund research…Corporations have been laying off for the past 3 years and hoarding cash to the point where government deficit spending has been the only funding source in the country. I know, part of my business is funded by such. Oil companies are going to drag their feet as much as possible…they have nothing to lose…
You can vote Romney if you choose, but he is still going to lose. Mitch Daniels provides him the best chance of winning, and I’m not sure he would take it. Otherwise you’re stuck with Christie…And I think Gary Johnson will get Ron Paul’s share of the vote, Paul or not…..
redneckbluedog
January 7th, 2012
3:00 pm
Linda
January 7th, 2012
2:03 pm
——————————–
A Libertarian ticket would step out of everthing..!!!! See Dusty’s post at 2:19……There would be no oil and gas subsidies or sweet defense contracts or sweet union kickbacks or battles over women’s uterii……TRULY SMALLER GOVERNMENT…..
We’re left to our own devices…a chance to reset the country……You do your thing I’ll do mine…..That sounds like what both you and Dusty want….Unless you’re just making up excuses to vote against the President…..
redneckbluedog
January 7th, 2012
3:04 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 7th, 2012
2:30 pm
Corporations get rich by providing products and services that people want. No one is forced to buy from or work for corporations. We do so because we want to.
——————————————————————————
I totally agree with that. But your argument breaks down when that’s not enough. When they have to go paying Jack Abramoff to cut them sweet tax deals and or kickbacks….or pass legislation….or funding the Supreme Court and Crossroads GPS to influence legislation..
That’s not Econ 101….that’s kissing hiney, cutting throats, and you know what….
getalife
January 7th, 2012
3:06 pm
When the gop get power they grow government and explode the deficit.
It is bs to appease the pee party.
td
January 7th, 2012
3:09 pm
redneckbluedog
January 7th, 2012
1:30 pm
So you are trying to tell us that private industry will not invest in a product they could make a profit? When and if the technology become viable and profitable then private industry will invest and produce said product and a rate that will make your head spin.
The problem is the environmentalist are attempting to use government to try to inflate current energy prices and then wants the government to take over the development and manufacturing of a technology that is not viable right now. From some of the articles I have read, the scientist are saying it will be another decade before battery technology is developed to a point to make solar energy a sound alternative. Why must we waste all of this tax payer money now when it is not viable?
td
January 7th, 2012
3:19 pm
redneckbluedog
January 7th, 2012
3:04 pm
You want to make your arguments against corporate America instead of focusing on the real problem. Corporations pay a great deal of money for lawyers to tell them what the rules of the game are and how to best make those rules work for the best interest of the corporation. Why are the rules so complicated and who writes the rules? Why do we have a tax code so complicated that corporations can ask for carve outs? Why do we not have a simple tax system? With a consumption tax you would take a great deal of money out of Washington because the politicians could not write all those special tax deals for their friends to get special tax breaks.
lynnbo
January 7th, 2012
3:25 pm
There is only two things we can do. 1. Vote them all out and keep voting them out to enforce term limits. 2. Most of our leaders are dirty and corrupt. If we all started exposing them with details in the press and editorials to the paper and internet to our neighbors this will help.
Otherwise you sit their and take it over and over. Both parties are corrupt and this is why Georgias economy was so damaged………….. Perdue had much to do with it and he is rich now.
Linda
January 7th, 2012
3:35 pm
redneck@3:00, There is no way you can lean Libertarian & prefer a “truly smaller govt.” & at the same time be for govt. subsides in failed green energy companies, govt. bailouts, govt. deficit spending & Obama as a second choice.
Furthermore, there is no way you can be a Christian & at the same time be for abortion.
Even furthermore, as both a Christian & a lady, I was offended with your crude reference @ 3:00.
Michael H. Smith
January 7th, 2012
3:47 pm
td
January 7th, 2012
3:09 pm
This alternative energy thing a.k.a. green energy economy is a good thing to pursue. However, the government’s terms need to be completely redrawn in such a manner to only pay for the successful desired result achieved not money paid upfront for rosy promises and slick sales pitches that may and usually never come to any marketable fruition.
Face it, energy independence, particularly from clean renewable sources is a majority military advantage in and of itself. Notwithstanding the added benefits of more competition driving down consumer energy costs where multiple energy products are available within our marketplace.
Cutting our military expenses for defending the world’s oil supply alone would probably more the cover the total pay-out in rewards for producing viable alternative energy that can compete Joule for Joule with traditional energy.
BTW, to my conservatives and Libertarians friends, government funding of science and useful arts is one of the enumerated powers granted to Congress under Article One Section Eight:
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts…
http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html
Hillbilly D
January 7th, 2012
4:13 pm
government funding of science and useful arts is one of the enumerated powers granted to Congress under Article One Section Eight:
I’d disagree. What it says is To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;. That’s copyrights and patients not government funding. in my opinion.
td
January 7th, 2012
4:15 pm
Michael H. Smith
January 7th, 2012
3:47 pm
I agree that we as a nation should pursue every possible energy source. I also agree with you that government has a funding role in science and technology. I think the government was went over the line in funding the manufacturing of alternative energies.
Linda
January 7th, 2012
4:42 pm
The Chevy Volt is an electric Edsel. Govt. loans, rebates, grants & tax credits total about $3 B. It’s old hat for the fed. govt. to blow our $ 2.3 B, but where is the world did the state of Michigan come up with $600 M to blow? The average cost of taxpayer money is up to $250,000 per car. GM’s goal of selling 10,000 in ‘11 was short by about 4000 cars. It would have been worse had the govt. not bought fleets of them & gotten their cronies (such as GE) to buy a respectable few.
The Volt goes about as fast as a go-cart, goes all of 30 miles before kicking over to gas & gets a whopping 30 mpg. Now, that’s gonna lessen our dependence on foreign oil! One of the reasons the Volt gets 30 MPG is that only 2 people fit in the backseat. Did I mention that the batteries are charged with electricity from coal-power? Not to worry! The fed. govt. is phasing out coal.
Did I mention that Ford sold about 600,000 F150’s last year?
BTW, the average income for a “normal” Volt buyer is $170,000. That’s about $30,000 short of the income of a taxpayer filing singly, who fits into that tax bracket Obama calls “millionaires & billionaires.” Even tho the Volt price tag is about $40,000, the buyer gets a $7500 tax credit to lessen his hardship. Guess who’s paying for the tax credit! This appears to be a reverse Robin Hood transfer of wealth from middle-income households to almost “millionaires & billionaires,” GM & unions.
One of the prizes awarded last year to the Volt was making the list of the Worst Product Flops of 2011. That was BEFORE GM learned that the batteries were catching on fire & recalled all the Volts for what is being called “enhancement.”
The Volt was expected to set the world on fire but it was the Volt that caught on fire. Maybe if it could fly…
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 7th, 2012
5:15 pm
Remember when the Chevy Volt was named “Car of the Year”?
Heckuva job, Motor Trend! Too fkn funny!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 7th, 2012
5:22 pm
I love it. Moron 99-percenters subsidizing Chevy Volts purchased by millionaires & billionaires.
Michael H. Smith
January 7th, 2012
5:22 pm
I think the government was went over the line
Absolutely!
Then again “limiting government powers” was the very intent of Section Eight of Article One. Unfortunately socialist liberals don’t believe one word of what Section Eight is saying.
Which is:
The federal government’s rights and powers are to be few in amount and narrow in scope. The rights and powers of the states are to be many by amount and broad in scope. Et al James Madison ~ the federalist papers #41 and #45(esp.)
Michael H. Smith
January 7th, 2012
5:34 pm
The sad thing is that the EV-1, GM’s other electric car of the ’70s as I re-call never caught fire and it was a doable technology then as now, which people wanted but guess who killed that idea?
Who Killed the Electric Car?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F
Velma
January 7th, 2012
5:44 pm
I think the most important and insightful in Kyle’s column is the overlap between Tea Party and Occupy. If they could just put down their petty social differences and focus on the fact that our government has become a piggy bank for corporate America, then perhaps we could focus on solutions created by we the people and not by lobbyists and CEOs who pad the pockets of our elected officials.
Linda
January 7th, 2012
5:47 pm
Lil’ Barry@5:22, No, people making $200,000 per yr. are not millionaires, let alone billionaires, but taxpayers filing singly in that tax bracket are included in Obama’s class warfare speeches & those he wants to increase taxes on because they are not paying “their fair share.”
When I called them ALMOST “millionaires & billionaires,” it was tongue in cheek.
Linda
January 7th, 2012
5:59 pm
Velma@5:44, You are misinformed. There is absolutely NOTHING in the Tea Party movement that has ANYTHING whatsoever to do with any social agenda. There are members of the Tea Party who happen to have social values, but the Tea Party is strictly limited to govt. spending & taxation. Regardless of how the left has painted the Tea Party, you will not be able to find any Tea Party platforms anywhere on the internet that includes social issues. Do your own research.
Rafe Hollister
January 7th, 2012
6:17 pm
Linda
Good to see you back posting, been awhile hasn’t it? You have made some good points.
Smaller government and adhering to the Constitution solves most of our problems.
The REAL GodHatesTrash, Superstar
January 7th, 2012
6:19 pm
True dat, Linda. The teab-ag crowd are anti-social misfits, angry dullards all.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
January 7th, 2012
6:43 pm
That’s real clever, gitmo, the “pee” party, wow, why didn’t I think of that?
Oh yeah, cause I’m not a first grader, that’s why.
I hereby offer my official services to you libs as a translator for tonight’s Repug debate, and for this night only, my fee is substantially reduced. We will discuss payment terms on an individual basis, or cash only, as I like to say. But whenever one of the Cons talks of something you know nothing about, like responsibility, productivity, strong moral character and such things, I will explain to you what it means. Results are guaranteed.
Assuming, of course, that you are not a total moron like obozo or something. But, I promise that I will make every effortt, regardless of your mental capacity.
So get the credit card ready, hope that the Saints put down the Lions early, tune in your TV to A.B.S. and learn something, y’all.
Linda
January 7th, 2012
6:44 pm
REAL@6:19, At least we know proper English which includes how to spell. To be helpful to you, there is another blog on the AJC where they are swapping dessert recipes, as best as I can tell. Remember that a small t stands for teaspoon & a big T stands for tablespoon. You may spell the Tea Party with any t you can muster. Good luck to you & may God bless you in you cooking.
Linda
January 7th, 2012
7:11 pm
Rafe@6:17, Nice to know I was missed. Glad to contribute. Keep up your great posts.
Michael H. Smith
January 7th, 2012
7:29 pm
Velma
January 7th, 2012
5:44 pm
I know where you are trying to go with your train of thought, however, you do realize the two groups are coming from totally different political and philosophical realms. The TEA PARTY is very constitutionally aligned or correct and we know it. On the other hand the occupiers only know they strongly dislike profiteers that may or may not be crooks. If the occupiers( some of them not all of them) spent more time understanding the bases of what and why they overlap on certain issues with the TEA PARTY they just might convert to being patriots that protest lawfully and respect the property and individual rights of others.
The TEA PARTY works lawfully within the system not outside of it.
But for what it is worth the occupiers should be occupying the halls of Congress and the lawn of the White House where they will do some real lasting good rather than Wall Street that only laughs at them – all the way to their corrupt taxpayer bailed-out banks.
Michael H. Smith
January 7th, 2012
7:43 pm
people making $200,000 per yr. are not millionaires
A good number of them are mom and pop small business people that work their butts off, sometimes for less than minimum wages and struggle to pay their bills on time.
Yeah, to someone that has never been in a family mom and pop business to know the difference between a GROSS PROFIT AND NET PROFIT, $200K looks very big but that is usually a gross profit. Figure more like 2 or maybe 3 percent of the gross profit and then you know what these so-called millionaires can actually call, “their money”.
bluecoat
January 7th, 2012
7:48 pm
LiL B economic retardation…when corps are bailed by taxpayer(by either party)where does this money come from?When you exploit the people,make more money for shareholders.Are you being just?Then these low paid people can”t pay med.bill etc.need assistance.Who pays those bill.The corp,I think not.You continue to harp on consumption tax.A tax that will hurt the low income because will take bigger portion of their income.Possibly vat or progressive income tax best.
MrLiberty
January 7th, 2012
8:03 pm
There is a reason why Ron Paul appeals to both OWS and the Tea Party types. He is the only person in the race speaking out against CORPORATISM
Michael H. Smith
January 7th, 2012
8:05 pm
We already have a progressive income tax and it is evil and Marxist. It punish ambition, innovation and upward income mobility by confiscation, then redistributes what it seizes unjustly and deceitfully as a government social remedies to reward the reckless, the slothful and those trapped by an addiction to government stipends.
What we need is a two tiered flat tax that rewards ambition and innovation to produce and distribute maximum opportunity, zero or very low corporate taxes competitive to corporate tax rates charged by the rest of the world’s nations. CEO pay and shareholder distribution another subject altogether. However the shareholders the small 401k and IRA investors are the ones really getting screwed over by today’s Corporate America.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 7th, 2012
8:08 pm
“When you exploit the people,make more money for shareholders.Are you being just?”
——-
Corporations make money when customers decide to buy their products or services. Government takes citizens’ income to pay for failing schools, crime infested housing projects, and bridges to nowhere. If any institution is doing some exploiting, it’s the government.
If you put your faith in government, your an idiot or a parasite.
MrLiberty
January 7th, 2012
8:10 pm
oops, hit the enter key.
Corporatism is the unholy alliance between government and business and in most places on earth it is also properly referred to as Fascism as well. We do not have capitalism in this country. We have corporate capitalism, where the power of government is used to enhance certain businesses at the expense of others or the citizens.
Republicans typically endorce ANYTHING that puts money into the hands of business (even if it is stolen from taxpayers, etc.) Democrats are just as bad, but hide their criminality by giving the money to “worthy causes” like Solar energy companies, Libyan rebels “fighting for their independence” and other less than admirable causes.
Only true libertarians (among with I will happily count Ron Paul) have been speaking out about the imperative need to dismantle the power structure of govenrment in order to eliminate the mechanism by which these corrupt schemes exist.
Far too many think that we can keep government big and somehow not have these problems. They think that not a single cent can be cut from the pentagon budget while billions and billions are “lost” by Haliburton and others in corrupt schemes to rob the american people blind.
Government power is the ONLY means by which these things can happen and only Ron Paul among the republicans (and of course the democrats) is bothering to run on this platform.
And don’t you think that is why both parties are so afraid of him!
Ron Paul 2012.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 7th, 2012
8:16 pm
Democrats don’t fear Ron Paul. Ron Paul in the general election means Obozo’s fascist regime gets four more years to do its treasonous work of destroying the American economy.
Michael H. Smith
January 7th, 2012
8:19 pm
“When you exploit the people,make more money for shareholders.Are you being just?
Yeah I want a piece of that one too…
You bet it is just. That is the way capitalism is meant to work. Your money should, by means of investment, work twice as hard for you, as you by your labor worked for it. Everyone should be an investor of some sort, it is the way, probably the only way, to gain and accumulate wealth. That is why CEO pay verses shareholder stock values needs correcting and I’d be for doing it by government regulation if necessary. Shareholders should be getting the lions share of profits not these CEOs’ who are ripping them off and bankrupting their corporations.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
January 7th, 2012
8:22 pm
So much for the Aint’s putting the Cryin’s away early.
gitmo, wtf? Ever heard of d-fence?
Linda
January 7th, 2012
8:23 pm
Michael@8:05, Well said.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 7th, 2012
8:23 pm
MHS, shareholders dissatisfied by CEO performance or compensation are free to sell their shares. No regulation required.
Linda
January 7th, 2012
9:00 pm
Is it just me, or does anyone else crave Frosty Flakes when watching the Cincinnati Bengals? Is there anyone even associated with the team named Tony? If not, they are likely to be investigated by congress. (I refuse to capitalize congress.)
Criminal Minds is one of the most popular shows today. Its about serial killers. Congress’s approval ratings are below serial killers, child molesters, rapists, drug kingpins, etc. How is C-SPAN staying in business? Taxpayer money?
Hillbilly D
January 7th, 2012
9:06 pm
CSpan is funded by affiliate fees paid by cable and satellite providers, I believe.
Linda
January 7th, 2012
9:30 pm
I’m what you call a trivia expert when it comes to pro-football. Does anyone know the name of Drew Brees brother? It’s Fab & he keeps the Super Dome smelling great.
Does anyone know what Cam Newton plans to name his first child? Named after his favorite Turkish fruit: Figs.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
January 7th, 2012
9:34 pm
Does Ron Paul sound like barakkk obozo, or what?
bluecoat
January 7th, 2012
10:05 pm
MHS DO you think the onion growers in Ga.should pay the help low wages,then when these people need help, taxpayer responsibility?Then whine because you feel screwed the ceo gettin paid too much,and your shares are worth less.Summation it’s ok to be unjust with anyone except special me.
Linda
January 7th, 2012
10:29 pm
bluecoat@10:05, Do what? English, please. Spelling & complete sentences/questions would be helpful to understand your gripe.
Michael H. Smith
January 7th, 2012
10:45 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 7th, 2012
8:23 pm
It really isn’t that simple lbb, there is a great deal more to correcting the problem than simply selling your shares. Not to mention that particular answer – not the person who gave it – is very glib at best.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 7th, 2012
10:47 pm
blue objects to folks having to work for a living. He’s bought into Obozo’s vision of a moocher’s paradise where someone else pays your bills.
bluecoat
January 7th, 2012
10:48 pm
Newt sure took the gloves off.Romney need be careful with China.They own us.
Michael H. Smith
January 7th, 2012
10:49 pm
MHS DO you think the onion growers in Ga.should pay the help low wages,then when these people need help, taxpayer responsibility?
First off who are “these people”? I believe you are dishonestly baiting here.
And as for your trash talk directed at me and I don’t mean to be kind about it because YOU started down and I do mean DOWN the low path
SCREW YOU!
Michael H. Smith
January 7th, 2012
10:49 pm
Romney is spot on with China.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 7th, 2012
10:51 pm
Yeah, it is that simple, MHS. CEO pay is only your concern if you’re an owner (shareholder) of the company. If you are an owner, convince the other owners to replace the elected board of directors with one that will run the company according to your wishes.
And if you aren’t an owner, it frankly isn’t any of your concern and does not affect you.
Michael H. Smith
January 7th, 2012
10:55 pm
“replace the elected board of directors ”
Think so do you?
Can you tell me who was on the board of directors of Home Depot when Bob Nardelli was CEO of that corporation?
Michael H. Smith
January 7th, 2012
10:58 pm
Caught you guard lbb?
Michael H. Smith
January 7th, 2012
11:03 pm
I know I did, so I’ll spare you the hunt for the info.
Two of the board members were Bob Nardelli allies he brought over from GE intentional seated to cover Bob’s butt in case someone wanted to end Bob’s tenure as CEO.
As I said it really isn’t as simple as you make it sound. Boards of directors are packed with friends to do nothing protect their CEO friend who put them on the board.
bluecoat
January 7th, 2012
11:07 pm
All do not have their parents money to manage.Oriental wife to keep then up.Do not tell us you work,you stay on here 24/7.It ’s not folks having to work,just me.special me.
Michael H. Smith
January 7th, 2012
11:10 pm
The fictitious comical stories that appear on these blogs.
Michael H. Smith
January 7th, 2012
11:22 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 7th, 2012
10:47 pm
Some people will always envy and covet what others posses and hate those of us that find the sickness of envy and covetousness morally corrosive to the soul.
Linda
January 7th, 2012
11:36 pm
bluecoat@10:05, 10:48 & 11:10, Please speak English. We’d like to communicate with you if you could just make complete sentences. Hello!
bluecoat
January 7th, 2012
11:37 pm
Money can’t work for you.Money is a tool.
bluecoat
January 7th, 2012
11:41 pm
G– hates covetousness,same as immorality.
td
January 8th, 2012
12:06 am
bluecoat
January 7th, 2012
11:41 pm
Your really need to turn off the PC and sleep off that drunk or high you are on my friend. Come back tomorrow and we may be able to understand what you are attempting to communicate.
Today’s Rebellion News – January 8th 2012 | Rebellion News
January 8th, 2012
1:17 am
[...] When tycoons and politicians do business, taxpayers lose [...]
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 8th, 2012
6:29 am
Michael H. Smith: Can you tell me who was on the board of directors of Home Depot
—————————-
Yes. Whoever the owners selected. You do understand that the owners (shareholders) select the board of directors, and that the elected board of directors hires/fires the CEO and sets his pay, right?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 8th, 2012
8:16 am
bluecoat: Money can’t work for you.
————————
Sure it can. People with extra money provide a valuable service to society by allowing others to borrow it in order to start businesses, hire people, build homes, purchase expensive durable goods. Those who provide this service and take the associated risks are compensated in the form of interest or the expectation that they will be able to sell their investment to another for an amount greater than the initial amount.
This annoys the know-nothings, economic retards, and moochers to no end.
carlosgvv
January 8th, 2012
8:27 am
Barry – 9:29
So, you want to get real about the Republicans? Well and good.
1. The Republicans have made it crystal clear they won’t allow any tax increases on the rich. However, it’s ok with them to tax the middle class and poor.
2. The Republicans are doing everything possible to torpedo the Consumer Protection Bureau. This will make it easier for Big Business to swindle us consumers.
Going thru your political life being blind in one eye and not being able to see out of the other is never a good idea.
GT
January 8th, 2012
8:31 am
My question today is why would a casino owner pony up five million dollars for a lost cause? I can remember a State of the Union address where Obama mentioned these packs make the national elections a eBay bidding process. I also remember the unruly Republicans booing whatever like comment he made. How silly is it to even have campaign contribution laws? My thought on the contribution is it really is a contribution against the far right? I cannot believe a man owning and making a fortune in gambling subscribes to the philosophies of the Tea Party. If you can keep this part of the party watered down a more moderate has a chance to carry the election, Newt has not got a snowball chance. Gingrich is not taking votes from Mitt, he is taking them from the right and our Newt has proven he can be bought. Rick Santorum, in particular, probably scares Las Vegas. The only way the Tea Party is going to bring its full strength to the party is to grow up and get organized. They need one candidate representing them, but as long as Ron Paul at 76 is in the primary it will not happen. They run that party about the way they run congress, maybe we all should give Newt some of our money. Keep an eye Marianne she will probably be doing an good imitation of Elizabeth Taylor sporting some of her new baubles. This five is a windfall for Ms. Gingrich the third.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 8th, 2012
8:31 am
carlos, please cite for us the Republican policy that will increase taxes on only the middle class and poor.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 8th, 2012
8:51 am
Didn’t think so.
Jm
January 8th, 2012
9:19 am
Well who ya gonna endorse Kyle?
Ron Paul? I mean he’s just whacky
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 8th, 2012
9:30 am
The Republicans aren’t proposing raising taxes on anyone–rich, middle class, or poor. Which guarantees that half of Americans will continue to contribute nothing in income taxes to pay for the operation of the federal government.
GT
January 8th, 2012
9:38 am
If it keeps us from fighting these crazy wars where we leave billions in infrastructure to the enemy, I am all for not taxing anyone, why waste our money? Barry is you are what you say you are you should be in church, see ya there hot shot.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 8th, 2012
9:39 am
What do I say I am, GT? Methinks you think too prejudicially for your own good!
The REAL GodHatesTrash, Superstar
January 8th, 2012
9:54 am
Lil’ Barry believes in the Trinity – Curly, Larry, and Moe. Especially Curly, the simplest, silliest Stooge.
@@
January 8th, 2012
10:19 am
Someone needs to arrange a game of ping pong between Ahmadinejad and Obama…then…?
All our problems would be solved.
schnirt
Michael H. Smith
January 8th, 2012
10:22 am
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 8th, 2012
6:29 am
You obviously ignored what I said about board members right? Even after I pointed out a situation that happens all too often with a case made in point? BTW, there was a write-up, in depth too, citing the facts of the very case I used to point out the problem with your overly simplistic approach and why it won’t work like you think it might.
You really need to face some reality here, the deck is being stacked, the normal process is being rigged and the fix is in so to speak. By the time enough stock needed to be sold was traded in order to drive a CEO out of the company the share price and company as well would be nearly destroyed and the shareholder would suffer the real loss not the CEO.
Apart from that being said again, one look at the extreme differences in CEO and executive compensations in some of these corporations verses stock owner shareholder returns on investment should sound an alarm that further corrective actions need to be taken that exceed what market base principles alone, simple ones included, just haven’t been able to do.
Do keep in mind the huge number of people…. and we are talking about the quote unquote low and middle income folks here, who are relying on 401K and IRAs to provide a retirement income. So if the game is going to be rigged I want it rigged in their, our favor – not in the favor of crummy Bob Nardelli type board members and CEOs’ who walk away with hundreds of millions of dollars for losing millions if not billions of dollars of shareholder wealth.
MrLiberty
January 8th, 2012
10:47 am
Yes, supporting and defending the constitution, supporting sound money, small government, ending the income tax, an america-first foreign policy, freedom, liberty, personal responsibility and end to the growing US surveilance state – that’s just plain wacky!
Endless wars, unlimitied military spending, billions in foreign aid to dictators, phony fiat currency combined with interest rate manipulations and rampant inflation, giant bailouts for banks and key businesses, spying on US citizens, assassinating US citizens without due process, imprisoning US citizens without evidence or due process – yeah, those are the things we need in a president (by the way, every other republican presidential candidate supports virtually every one of these – as of course does Obama).
Ron Paul 2012.
redneckbluedog
January 8th, 2012
11:15 am
MrLiberty
January 8th, 2012
10:47 am
————————–
Don’t forget about Gary Johnson….Ron Paul could join him on the Libertarian ticket….
redneckbluedog
January 8th, 2012
11:16 am
Governor Johnson has a pretty good resume….and is not so “wacky”….
Rafe Hollister
January 8th, 2012
12:04 pm
redneckbluedog
There is only one problem with you fantasy, involving Johnson/Paul. Dr. Paul has an ego the size of Michelle Oblamers rear end and would never agree to play second fiddle to some pot smoking milk toast governor of New Mexico.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 8th, 2012
12:19 pm
MHS, all directors face the shareholders at regular intervals, so even those who are buddies with the CEO come up for a vote.
Your kind of thinking is a dangerous threat to free market capitalism. Corporations are to be run by and for the owners–not as some kind of public utility. There seems to be a movement among the left to make corporate boards answer to the public rather than to their owners, and that will pretty much destroy capitalism. Liberal fascists like Obozo do get all warm and fuzzy when they hear thoughts like yours. Given your thinking on other economic topics, this capitulation to know-nothing populism is surprising.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
January 8th, 2012
2:17 pm
Did y’all get to see Stephanophylis and diane sewer foam up and babble at the Republicans trying conduct a decent debate?
Ban contraception? What sort of faculty lounge, ate up liberal ridiculousness was this?
They even managed to make Romney seem normal.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
January 8th, 2012
2:35 pm
Considering that common decency eludes the typical liberal and they think of things only vermin and other assorted wild animals would contemplate, why do they now call themselves “progressives?”
The REAL GodHatesTrash, Superstar
January 8th, 2012
3:37 pm
Curly @2:17
blah, blah, blah – the usual overemotional drivel…trying conduct a decent debate?
_______
Curly, you’re hilarious.
Michael H. Smith
January 8th, 2012
3:49 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 8th, 2012
12:19 pm
I disagree with you and the conclusion drawn by your statement. The problem is these corporate heads never face the kind of scrutiny or the accountability you suggest they do or as they should by stock holders and I consider your kind of thinking to the contrary very dangerous for market integrity and liberty. Regulations have a proper place in the economy despite what “Liberal”-tarians beliefs. A market without proper regulations, the kind you appear to want, gives the corporate fascist warm and fuzzy feelings of empowerment of what is often called Corporatism which is a governance worse than Communism.
Thanks for your returned comments but somehow I’m really not surprise, just disappointed that you, considering your depth of knowledge, are so far too trusting of something as absolute and extreme as a laissez-faire market.
Michael H. Smith
January 8th, 2012
4:03 pm
The Stephanopoulos attempt to trap Romney with and unexpected obscure question was so far over the top, even the average person listening to his question thought George had lost his damn mind; and after his relentless persistence in asking it, he confirmed to just about everyone listening that he had at the very least lost all his honest objectivity.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
January 8th, 2012
4:21 pm
I would say something fowl about the recently deceased Dirty Birds, to rub salt in Atlanta liberals wounds, but the only sports they like are tiddledeewinks, cricket and other such gay endeavors.
Still, the Birds should be ashamed.
Linda
January 8th, 2012
6:20 pm
carlosgvv@8:27 AM, Your statement deserves a prize. I just can’t figure out what would be appropriate.
The federal income tax rates for 2011 are 10%, 15%, 25%, 28%, 33% & 35%. That means that earners work 1.2, 1.8, 3, 3.36, 3.96 & 4.2 months for the federal government. In addition to federal income taxes, there are also state, county & municipal taxes. What is the maximum number of months that you think anyone should work for the government before they keep any money for themselves to, you know, pay for their own food, clothing & shelter?
The 33% tax bracket is for singles making over $174,400 & couples making over $212,300.
The 35% tax bracket is for singles & couples making over $379,150.
Obama’s Soak The Rich scheme has nothing to do with millionaires & billionaires, nor the rich. It’s a Soak the “Thousandaires” scheme. He want to raise the 33% bracket to 36% & the 35% bracket to 39.6%. These taxpayers would be working for the fed. govt. 4.32 & 4.752 mts. If they pay state income taxes of 10%, they will be working for the govt. up to 6 mts. of the year.
In addition to raising the brackets, he wants to cap their itemized deductions at 28%. That means for every $1000 they contribute to charity, they may only deduct $280. Every charity & non-profit organization in America will be hurt as well as the unfortunate people they stand for, i.e. every church, hospital, college & university, the Salvation Army, the arts & all emergency relief organizations. He has wanted to take away charitable deductions from day one, so that only the fed. govt. can decide who is worthy, what they need & how much.
Who decides what is fair? Regardless of income, is it fair for one person to work a little over a month for the fed. govt. & someone else to work almost 5 mts. for the fed. govt.? Only corporations file corporate tax returns. These tax brackets include our small businesses. Is it even wise to threaten to raise their taxes during poor economic times? Obama said that is would not be good for the economy but that he wanted to do it anyway for “fairness.”
Linda
January 8th, 2012
6:42 pm
carlosgvv, The second part of your statement was ludicrous. The next plan for the progressives is to take over our financial industry via the Consumer Financial Protection Agency. The only swindle going on is by the progressives.
The Republicans are NOT “doing everything possible to torpedo the CP Bureau.” All they did was block Obama’s appointees to this agency & to the NLRB by long-standing procedures. By Obama appointing them anyway during a duly open pro forma session of congress, he violated the constitution. This was the most brazen, arrogant violation of his oath of office thus far & might be the number one reason he will not be re-elected.
Batterycap
January 8th, 2012
7:23 pm
Kyle – great article. Tell me why we actually pay movie companies to come here and make movies. Yes, the State of Georgia foregoes hundreds of millions of tax revenue so that movies will be made here. Isn’t throwing money at industries favored by politicians supposed to be primarily an Illinois thing?
Mary Elizabeth
January 8th, 2012
7:42 pm
Kyle,
Thank you very much for writing this outstanding article for today’s (Sunday’s) paper and for posting this information on your blog. It exposes the injustice to taxpayers when “billionaires with hare-brained schemes saddle up to politicians.”
As a public school teacher of 35 years, and as the daughter of a City Manager who believed in, and who practiced, honest government which served his community and the “common good,” I have little patience for those politicians, or for private sector businessmen and women, who would make a buck for themselves on the taxpayers’ dime, and especially without feeling any tinge of conscience that what they are doing is wrong. If a politician is going to be a public servant, then he or she should serve the public’s interest, and not primarily serve the interest of his/her own pocketbook, at the public’s expense. One has to wonder why there are so many members of the U.S. Congress who are wealthy. Some have come into their wealth by honest and ethical means, but many others have used their political power, primarily, to serve their own monetary advancement. I fear that the pitiful truth is that many in Congress, today, as well as many politicians in Georgia, have chosen to run for office simply to advance their own wealth. Thomas Jefferson, in contrast, lost money while serving the public’s interest, as did many of our founders, including George Washington. But these outstanding men believed in personal honor, as well as in service to their countrymen and women, rather than using their government service to advance their personal wealth.
I have a couple of qualifications to express regarding this article. First, I believe that President Obama should have bailed out the auto industry with government money, as he did, because the U.S. was quickly moving toward a Depression, at that time, and the auto industry needed to be rescued from total collapse, even with governmental funds. Much of that “loaned” money to the auto industry has been returned to the government. As a result of many steps taken during that dire time, our nation did not succumb to a Depression, and we have now had more than 22 weeks of private sector job growth.
Second, I question any venture capitalists – such as Vinod Khosla – using state workers’ pension money for their risky ventures when venture capitalists will not be the ones to suffer as much, in the long run, if these risky ventures fail, as will state workers. In other words, there could develop a mindset of “easy come; easy go” with retirees’ pension money with some venture capitalists. That would never be the mindset of state workers, toward their own pension money, since state workers have directly contributed to their pension funds for decades. State workers would have more to lose with venture capital losses than the venture capitalists.
Government is not the problem in our nation, nor is business the problem. The problem is corrupt government and corrupt business. Good government has an important role to play in building and maintaining our society, as does good business practice. As citizens, we would be wise not to demonize either our government or business, but to insist that both play their separate parts, in harmony and in balance with one another, and that they do so for the benefit of America’s citizens, as did our Founding Fathers.
Thank you, again, Kyle, for this outstanding article.
Linda
January 8th, 2012
9:05 pm
Mary Elizabeth@7:42, I have read your prior & present commentaries.
You are a progressive & are so smooooooooth.
You are a liar, by omission, as are all Democrats, especially progressives. The unemployment rate is the net number of jobs. That is, the number of jobs created by the number of jobs lost, or vice versa. Quoting merely the number of private sector jobs created is dishonest.
State workers have contributed to their pension funds for decades? In what states? Are you kidding?
Your statement that “govt. is not the problem in our nation” is the opposite of what Ronald Reagan stated. Govt. IS THE PROBLEM.
What
January 8th, 2012
9:20 pm
Your statement that “govt. is not the problem in our nation” is the opposite of what Ronald Reagan stated. Govt. IS THE PROBLEM.
Reagan said a lot of things, doesn’t make this correct.
Linda
January 8th, 2012
9:37 pm
What@9:20, The fed. govt. is borrowing at least 40 cents (more like 42 cents) of every dollar it is spending, borrowing it from China or, even worse, printing it at the Fed. Reserve, out of thin air. Have you noticed that your grocery prices are outrageous? Inflation, anyone?
Have you noticed that your gas prices are also outrageous? Thanks to the fed. govt. & Obama.
Where are your light bulbs, chap? If light bulbs were the cause of global warming, we would be home free by now!
“Reagan said a lot of things” & you, my friend, need to compare what he said & what worked to what is being said today & what is not working.
bluecoat
January 8th, 2012
9:57 pm
She stated corrupt business,corrupt government.And she is right.
bluecoat
January 8th, 2012
10:07 pm
Please tell me how Obama or any president controls price of oil.
sheepdawg
January 9th, 2012
7:27 am
first time i’ve agreed with mr wingfield, maybe he’s starting to remove the gop blinders and looking at the growing wealth disparity caused by these heartless and brainless psychopaths as the real problem with our “democracy”
GT
January 9th, 2012
8:48 am
Mary Elizabeth we agree. The problem we have in this economy is too many clever people who do not want to put in the work but want to get in the way of hard working Americans and claim some of their money. I am not talking about government I am talking about Wall Street and finance people who take money from one private pocket and put it into another pocket and their own. They are then paid whether the deal works or not. This is stealing to me. I do blame the investor who blindly invest without doing his or her homework, though many pension funds are set up to make it very difficult to know what is going on so this is easier to pull off, the politician who is desperate to bring jobs to his home town so he can be reelected. The real criminal is the person who loses this money for these people while making his money for himself. Without a thought or conscience of his or her ill fated deeds, taking a bonus and is off doing it again like a serial killer. These people think they are entitled because of some Ivy League education or birthright to be fed when their actions have caused a holocaust in the American economy. This nonproductive in-between man needs to be held responsible for his or her indiscretions. I as a business man am responsible for the product I sell. If I cause harm to a customer, I am responsible for what I have done. How have these people been let off the hook while doctors who earnestly try to help society are held to a higher grade as are most professionals.
The government is our fault, it is us, though like bad children many of us don’t claim it. The government didn’t directly cause the pain we are going though right now, dumb as they are they trusted the information of a greedy bunch of entitlement babies who sold them a bill of goods to get a commission and bonuses. As the people of south Georgia were trying to figure where their next meal was coming this weekend these big shots were riding their jets and parading around with the “let em eat cake” attitude that is about to destroy this nation. I am not against wealth if it is producing and I am not against a community trying to better itself through its government. I am against a winner never feeling the pain of his or her actions, making the losers what they are then ridiculing them for trying to survive.
Melissa
January 9th, 2012
11:07 am
I support the philosophy that willingness to fail is a key ingredient in success, however, no one should assume that risk for me. Government has no right to risk my money without my permission.
UGA 1999
January 9th, 2012
11:37 am
Kyle, normally I agree with you, However this time may be the exception. IF the “tycoon” is the job creator, he/she may have to work with local politicians for tax incentives or grants.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 9th, 2012
12:21 pm
Govt. IS THE PROBLEM.
Reagan said a lot of things, doesn’t make this correct.
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Wrong. Our President Reagan was correct. Government is the problem. Bad schools, disappearing jobs, expensive healthcare, expensive higher education…all are caused by government and the party of government.
Thanks, Democrats.
Mary Elizabeth
January 9th, 2012
12:22 pm
Melissa@11:07 a.m.
“I support the philosophy that willingness to fail is a key ingredient in success, however, no one should assume that risk for me. Government has no right to risk my money without my permission.”
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Melissa, as a retired teacher, and as a state government retiree, I want to use your remarks at 11:07 a.m. – and alter them somewhat – in order to show some irony, as well as to advance further my reason for rejecting the current trend of allowing business entrepreneurs to use state workers’ pension funds for their own purposes. See below:
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I support the philosophy that willingness to fail is a key ingredient in success; however, no one should assume that risk for me. Venture Capitalists have no right to risk my pension money without my permission.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 9th, 2012
1:00 pm
Venture capitalists don’t control where teacher pensions are invested.
End of story.
Mary Elizabeth
January 9th, 2012
1:31 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout@ 1:00
“Venture capitalists don’t control where teacher pensions are invested. End of story.”
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Barry, you are misinformed. This has been a trend in many states. Georgia is considering it.
To be more informed, read this paragraph from Kyle Wingfield’s post of January 5, 2012:
“As I’ve written before, however, there are other ways to pursue this good goal the wrong way. The best way is to put a small portion of funds that are going to be invested anyway — say, 1 percent of the state pension fund’s portfolio — into a top-shelf VC or private equity fund, with the stipulation that the fund open an office in Georgia. Let the fund’s managers choose its investments, whether they’re here or elsewhere, but give our companies a better chance at attracting the attention of those managers.”
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Here is the link for Kyle Wingfield’s full article on Jan. 5, 2012, which will link to his Nov. 28, 2011 article, which also addresses this topic:
http://blogs.ajc.com/kyle-wingfield/2012/01/05/dear-gov-deal-go-broad-with-plan-to-spur-georgia-economy/
UGA 1999
January 9th, 2012
2:30 pm
Obama’s Cheif of Staff is stepping down….hmmmm I wonder why. Get out before the ship sinks.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 9th, 2012
5:44 pm
Mary Elizabeth: Barry, you are misinformed. This has been a trend in many states. Georgia is considering it.
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Who’s considering it? Georgia? Would that be the government of Georgia?
As I said earlier, the government controls where teacher retirement money is invested.
Glad to see you agree.
Mary Elizabeth
January 9th, 2012
6:57 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout@5:44 p.m.
Specifically, the Teacher Retirement System of Georgia determines where teachers’ retirement pension money is invested.
If you had read the links I had provided for you, you would have realized that some of Georgia’s legislators have considered presenting legislative bills which would allow a certain percentage of retired state employees’ pension funds to be utilized by Venture Capitalists for startup businesses. I believe those legislative proposals would be contested.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 9th, 2012
7:33 pm
Why read the links when you’ve so neatly summarized my point–it is the government, not eeeeeevil capitalists, that controls teacher retirement funds.
Mary Elizabeth
January 9th, 2012
9:06 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout@7:33 p.m.
The “government” is made up of many agencies – some of which have jurisdiction over others.
If risky Venture Capital endeavors fail, having used a percentage of state employees’ retirement pension funds, those retirement funds will be depleted, by that percentage. That is the heart of the issue.
Please do not put words into my writing which I have not used. “Evil” is not a word I have used, or would use, to describe capitalists.
Good evening.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 9th, 2012
10:12 pm
That’s correct–government controls teacher retirement funds and government determines how those funds are invested. And you are also correct that any risks taken with those funds are at the direction of government. If someone doesn’t like how funds are invested, their argument is with government, not with an investment firm providing services at the direction of the government.
Mary Elizabeth
January 9th, 2012
11:34 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout@10:12
You have correctly stated that retired teachers and retired state employees may have an argument with government relative to the investing of their pension funds. However, you do not appear to perceive of the connection that some “government” politicians may have with big business interests, which may adversely effect state workers’ interests.
And, you appear to have an inordinate prejudice against government, in general, which makes you erroneously perceive of government as one monolithic entity. I believe you should fine-tune your thinking relative to the positive role that government can play within our society. Below is a repeat of a paragraph that I posted on this thread, that places government, and its proper interaction with business, in a balanced perspective:
“Government is not the problem in our nation, nor is business the problem. The problem is corrupt government and corrupt business. Good government has an important role to play in building and maintaining our society, as does good business practice. As citizens, we would be wise not to demonize either our government or business, but to insist that both play their separate parts, in harmony and in balance with one another, and that they do so for the benefit of America’s citizens, as did our Founding Fathers.”
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
January 10th, 2012
7:42 am
I agree–if government makes poor decisions with your retirement money, government is the problem. Investing in new, risky ventures is what venture capitalists do. Let’s not blame them for government taking on known risks. You seem to have a prejudice against business, so I understand your need to put the blame on them rather than where it belongs.
Mary Elizabeth
January 10th, 2012
9:18 am
You are wrong. I do not have prejudice against business. I have an invested concern about risky Capital Venture types of business endeavors and the percentage of success that these start-up businesses will have with hard-earned pension retirement money of state workers. Most start-up businesses do not suceed.
It is not a matter of “blaming” anyone. It is a matter of looking boldly at the rate of successs of start- up businesses which have no record of success behind them – and trying to prevent from happening the use of state workers’ pension money for these start-up endeavors.
Also, I trust the business minds within the Teacher Retirement System whose purpose is to determine the sound investment choices of my pension money, and who have my best interests in mind when they do so, more than I trust certain politicians, who are not business specialists, but who may give themselves the right to determine the investment of my pension money in risky business start-up endeavors, when I know that some of these politicians have politicial connections to big business moguls, who have an ideological agenda against state workers. It is a matter of looking at what is going on straight on. Both the TRS and Georgia’s politicians are “government.” One must differentiate within “government.”
I believe that my “government” contributions to the state of Georgia, for over 35 years, are to be valued as much as business endeavors have done for the state of Georgia. My rate of success in educating young people was not only documented, but also praised by parents, students, and administrators. My contributions to Georgia through educating her students have contributed to Georgia’s long-ranged success. Thomas Jefferson was a strong proponent of public education in his writings. Jefferson was so dedicated to education that he started the University of Virginia, of which he was so proud that he had that achievement placed on his tombstone. He did not have the fact that he had been the President of the United States placed on his tombstone. Through that deliberate choice, Jefferson wanted future Americans to know that his priority for our nation was education. Alexander Hamilton believe in the importance of business outreach to America. Both of these outstanding founders’ ideas about what is important for American should be valued. Neither “government” nor “business” should be demonized and citizens must keep both government and business from becoming corrupted, as I previously had stated, and especially if “government” and “business” become questionable bedfellows through political contributions of big business moguls to governmental politicians.
Mary
January 10th, 2012
12:41 pm
This kind of taxpayer was could be reported daily – actually could fill the entire newspaper daily if based on the nation. Government waste is happening at all levels in this country and continues to happen. Anyone read about the fines imposed on the oil industry today for NOT using a product that this NOT available? The EPA also must stop in it’s investments in sustainable fuels that don’t exist and cannot be produced. Their excuse? If we mandate it, the technology will follow. In the mean time we’ll all pay for this mis-guided agency and local governments greedy for jobs at any cost.