The stupid payroll-tax fight isn’t going to benefit anyone
No one is completely in the right in the Washington-wide temper tantrum over extending the payroll-tax holiday. I don’t understand how Senate Republicans — who voted in large numbers for a two-month extension of the holiday — could have been so far out of step with House Republicans who insist on the year-long extension they’ve already passed.
That said, I have a hard time understanding the sudden conventional wisdom that public opinion about the situation will favor:
a) Senate Democrats, who want to enact a two-month extension offset by a tax on middle-class mortgagees and then spend even more time early next year arguing about the very same issue rather than moving on to other issues — rather than enacting a one-year extension offset by the exact same tax on middle-class mortgagees as well as a reduction in welfare and entitlement benefits for wealthy Americans and illegal immigrants, a pay freeze for federal workers, the auctioning of some wireless spectrum, and a few smaller items;
and/or
b) President Obama, who has repeatedly said he wants a full-year extension of the payroll-tax holiday but who, rather than castigating the Senate for passing only a two-month extension, instead is being nakedly partisan in castigating the House for sticking to its year-long extension.
Other than the length of the extension, there is very little substantive difference between the two bills except for the offsets, which is natural given that a year-long extension requires more offsets than a two-month extension. And there is very little in the House’s list of offsets that could be considered widely controversial.
And then there’s the fact that neutral experts say a two-month extension would be a nightmare for smaller firms to implement.
We’re long since past debating the actual merits of extending the tax holiday. As I said at the outset, no one in this kerfuffle comes out looking good. But does it really make sense to believe that the group that passed a short-term, unworkable bill, and the president who supported that about-face, are going to benefit from it, at the expense of the group that passed the longer-term, more practical bill? Obama and the Democrats made that bet during the debt-ceiling debate last summer. Instead, all they did was see their public approval sink alongside that of the Republicans.
I think most Americans will join me in asking that the same, big, fat lump of coal be dumped in all their stockings.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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234 comments Add your comment
ragnar danneskjold
December 21st, 2011
5:46 am
I thought Mr. Boehner would be a lousy speaker of the house. I was wrong. His house has consistently reflected intelligent policy choices, and is the most vibrant source of new and good ideas – the most striking development since the heyday of Newt.
The senate, in democrat hands, is incompetent, and the incompetence seemingly exceeds even that of the community organizer in chief, no small accomplishment. One would think rational democrats – yes, both of them – would be embarrassed to remain associated with an entity unable to pass a budget for three years.
Aquagirl
December 21st, 2011
5:58 am
Kyle, how can the Senate get anything done? They can’t pass any legislation because House Republicans are so insane even other Republicans don’t know what their own wackos will do next.
Trying to anticipate the caucus of NO is like trying to arrange a birthday party around a toddler’s wishes. Every time the wind blows they change their mind, and no matter what you do, they’ll throw a tantrum because it’s not good enough.
Les Killion
December 21st, 2011
6:32 am
Thid battle will continue for months and will be settled just in time for the elections. Both sides will claim the victory and the out of touch incumbants will be reelected. I would like to see our leaders paid the average amount of their constiuants. That would get them to start helping some people instead of working for themselves.
Conservative Republican
December 21st, 2011
6:40 am
I am a Republican, but things have to be paid for. There is no free lunch. How in the heck do people think Social Security benefits get paid for? Oh yeah, we borrow it from China and let our grandkids deal with it.
DeborahinAthens
December 21st, 2011
6:42 am
The Republicans have one thing on their agenda. Keep Obama from being re-elected. I told my husband last week when the economic numbers started looking better (lower unemployment, higher housing starts) that it would be fascinating to see what machinations the Repugs would pull out of their bu##s this time to try to make the economy go back into the ditch. If you recall, earlier this year, after many of the banks had repaid TARP money, the auto manufacturers had shown some profit (McCain would have shut them down), and the stock market had soared from the 6700 of Bush’s administration to over 11,000, the Repugs created the Debt Ceiling “crisis” . Something that had mysteriously never been a problem under Dubya the Dumb’s presidency. The stock market pulled back, the President’s numbers dropped, “Mission Accomplished”. What the GOP doesn’t care about is the very bad effect these games have on the American people. I hope the voters remember this in November.
Willis
December 21st, 2011
6:49 am
The senate Democrats can’t get anything done because Mortician McConnell and Killer Kyl stand in the way of everything. The stupid Senate rules give the minority party the power to block anything they want to, including appointments. Our government is broken and the current mess proves that beyond any doubt.
Term limits.
JF McNamara
December 21st, 2011
6:52 am
“I thought Mr. Boehner would be a lousy speaker of the house.”
Boehner may as well not even exist. He was briefed about the Senate deal before it passed and agreed to it. It came to the house, and he reversed course because his members rejected it. Same thing with the debt ceiling. He agreed to a deal with Obama, and then he reversed course because his party rejected it.
Kyle,
House Republicans never wanted an extension. They weren’t far out of step with the Senate. The bill passed the Senate 89-7, and Boehner had already agreed to it.They just wanted to save face in the process. The WSJ sums it all up nicely.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204791104577110573867064702.html
Truth Squad
December 21st, 2011
7:10 am
The new polling is quite clear on the issue of taxes:the public now trusts President Obama on the issue of taxes over Republicans by a wide margin. The Republicans have lost their advantage on this issue even before this latest manufactured stalemate.
I would humbly suggest that anyone who still believes the Republican aren’t engaged in a strategy to sabotage the economy and that it isn’t working well for them is in deep denial. I have seen no polling that demonstrates that those polled believe that President Obama is to blame for the sluggish economy. Yet this is what we hear from each of the potential Republican nominees. I bet it will be a touching moment when Bush 43 and Cheney are brought out on the stage in Tampa!
Lastly, I’m really disappointed that this article doesn’t mention the fact that we are at this point because Republicans, once again, refuse to ask the wealthy to pay a surcharge. I have a hard time understanding how any conservative could believe that the electorate are for the wealthy first, and everyone else can just go fend for ourselves.
Mr. Dithers
December 21st, 2011
7:12 am
Boehner isn’t leading, he is being pushed and shoved from behind by his rank and file. He is “a lousy speaker of the house” to say the least. Most of the time, you don’t know who he’s speaking for or whether he will have the same opinion an hour later. It just depends on whether he’s meeting with the GOP members in between.
We have got to get over this idea that the two parties working together is bad. Mitch McConnell, who I can’t stand, finally does the right thing and he just gets lambasted for it. It’s time for all them to work together and stop the nonsense. If not, they can all go, with Speaker Bonehead “leading” the way.
Bob
December 21st, 2011
7:12 am
For those that blame repubs for everything that does not happen please explain why dems could not even pass a budget when they had the house and 60 votes in the senate. Willis, you are one that blames McConnel but Obama presented congress a budget that did not get one single dem vote, why do you blame repubs for something they had no control in ?
MiltonMan
December 21st, 2011
7:14 am
Deborah – typical lib who does not understand simple math/numbers.
The stock market was 8200+ on the last day of Bush’s tenure.
The Senate isn't the problem, sadly
December 21st, 2011
7:22 am
Milton, that’s all you got? That’s weak sauce. You may as well correct any grammatical errors while you’re at it.
The bloc of house GOP’ers who are unpredictable, don’t listen to their leadership, and have held a number of efforts hostage seem to be the issue for any legislative wins in this session. That being said, some of the BS they’ve prevented is a step in the right direction…
Road Scholar
December 21st, 2011
7:22 am
Why should President Obama get involved? Haven’t you learned anything? President Obama’s suggestions are always met with the conservatives’ standard “NO” response. Besides doesn’t the Constitution place the lawmaking responsibility on Congress? Maybe the TeaParty contingent should float a new proposal that even has a chance of passing?
Rob Witterschein
December 21st, 2011
7:24 am
This whole thing is a charade. Neither side gives a hoot about any one of you. Personally, I would rather see all federal taxes abolished and go back to what the constitution states and have the Federal government be funded by the states. Noone except for Ron Paul even talks about that. And we dont even need taxes since we have a Federal Reserve that just prints money out of thin air. Seems like taxes is too much work.
Churchill's MOM.....Ron Paul for President
December 21st, 2011
7:29 am
ragnar danneskjold
December 21st, 2011
5:46 am
The real problem in the House is Mr. Israel FIRST Eric Cantor, every time the economy starts to pick up a little speed he throws the monkey wrench in the works. Below is a short quote fro POLITICO
“This is a colossal fumble by the House Republicans,” said a senior Senate GOP aide, requesting anonymity to speak candidly about his own party. “Their inability to recognize a win is costing our party our long-held advantage on the key issue of tax relief. It’s time for Boehner and [House Majority Leader Eric] Cantor to look these rookies in the eye and explain how the game is won or lost.”
The rebellion among House Republicans against the Senate has put McConnell in an awkward position as well. He faces criticism from the GOP rank and file for cutting a deal they don’t like and fierce attacks from Senate Democrats for not voicing support for his own proposal. In the meantime,
at least a half-dozen members from McConnell’s own conference are publicly voicing concern over the House GOP’s decision to block the Senate plan.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1211/70728.html#ixzz1hAgZ6TwD
BlahBlahBlah
December 21st, 2011
7:32 am
The morons in Washington DC never bothered to ask the payroll processing companies about the logistics of a two month extension. Now, those companies are rightfully pointing out the crazy burden DC wants to impose with such a foolish plan. Pathetic.
BW
December 21st, 2011
7:43 am
Kyle
How the heck did Boehner and the House Republicans absolve themselves of any wrong doing? Why is this primarily on Senate Democrats and the President? What ever happened to legislating issues as stand alone items? What does a pipeline have to do with a payroll tax holiday? If the House Republicans table some of their line items i.e. Keystone, federal workforce reductions to pay for the tax holiday, this could have been extended longer. Whether or not the House likes it the Senate passed a bill. As it is now, 2012 will be a year of defining ideological differences via legislation. Nothing will be done as the election season really kicks off. Hit snooze on any real legislation until after the first Tuesday in November.
Silverchief
December 21st, 2011
7:45 am
“Truth Squad”
I know you have a hard time understanding…You are a Democrap, eat up with wealth envy who wants to blame everything on Bush, and wherever you get your polling data, probably NPR or the Communist News Network, they’re full of BS….Now, go watch some Obozo news clips to help brighten your day.
jeff
December 21st, 2011
7:45 am
Just curious to the CONservative republicans on the list. How was the Bush Tax Cut paid for? Are only tax cuts the poor and middle class needing to be paid for and not the rich, since they pay for themselves (which as we all know is a fraud). I hear the silly CON’s say that it is their money and the gov’t has no right to it anyway but when it is someone elses (ie. mine) then it is not really mine, it is the gov’t? Typical bit of (non)thought from the CON’s.
BTW, borrow and spend their way to proserity is not the way either, CON’s. Who was it that doubled the debt under their administrations, (Bush? and that other guy you love so much)? Conservatism is the true failure to think things through. Oh Well.
Chris
December 21st, 2011
7:47 am
Everyone seems to have lost sight of why we have a payroll tax in the first place. It is specifically to fund social security and medicare, programs that are NOT general welfare but rather “payed for” savings plans. Social security specifically requires 40 quarters of work before you are eligible for benefits.
By cynically raiding the social security funding stream to promote consumption now, both parties are playing the game of “bribe the electorate with their own money”. I’d much rather pay the full 6.2% and have some hope of eventually collecting a SS check.
JohnnyReb
December 21st, 2011
7:47 am
I blame McConnell for this mess. How in the world did he allow Senate Republicans to vote for a two month extension knowing the House bill was for a year? He once again played right into Obama’s hands. He is suppose to be very political savy. I just don’t see it. Boehner would be effective if there was someone of his caliber in the Senate.
JohnnyReb
December 21st, 2011
7:49 am
Re, payroll tax reduction – who pays for it? I heard a commercial on TV this morning where a Company was bragging on how they got a woman’s over 25K in credit card debt reduced to less than half. I’m sick of people who make obligations and don’t live up to them. That reduced credit card debt will be paid by someone, probably all tax payers. The Left wants to give more away. How’s that working for you?
Jimmy62
December 21st, 2011
7:54 am
DeborahinAthens: The only reason the auto bailout recipients showed a profit was government incentives to buy cars along with other government meddling. Now they are failing again, as expected, because without government assistance their cars aren’t worth anything. Now the Volt is catching on fire (literally). But hey, why get upset about theft on a massive scale (Obama stole GM and Chrysler from their rightful owners to give to the UAW), when it makes a good, though completely fabricated, talking point?
Howard
December 21st, 2011
7:57 am
You can say what you want, spin it anyway you like, but right now Tea Party Republicans in the House are about to cost me more $1000 because they have, again, tried, to play politics with a simple issue….extending the payroll tax cut for millions of Americans. This is a slap in the face to the middle class and it WILL come back to bite the GOP. Count on it.
sean Smith
December 21st, 2011
8:04 am
Obama just needs to refer to this as the “Boehner 2012 TAX increase on the middle class” every chance he gets.
Joe The Plumber too.
December 21st, 2011
8:07 am
Howie, you focus on a small sum while overlooking a much larger one. If you are so scared of a thousand, how are you going to handle the tens of thousands that will be your share of the debt that urkle, piglosi and reid continue to run up? How will your children and grandchildren pay their share? If a thousand hurts you that much, I doubt you’ll be leaving it for them and ebt cards aren’t transferable.
Oh yea right
December 21st, 2011
8:08 am
The tax increase accounts for peanuts in ones paycheck and I do mean peanuts considering Obama and the Democrats want this to fly once again on the middle class backs. What do most people gain in their paychecks $2.00 but yet paying 20.00 extra in their morgage. These Democrats are so stupid and they think the Americans are the stupid ones. Good going for the GOP in the House to stop these bills. Spending is overboard and its time someone steps up and starts to protect the American middle class. We have had enough.
2012
December 21st, 2011
8:11 am
Again I say, every single House and Senate Rino needs to go, regardless of party. They have distroyed this country long enough. The people have risen and we are the ones saying NO NO NO!
gm
December 21st, 2011
8:12 am
Obama was far a 1 year extension and the rep were against that, jay how is it Obama fault? when 39 rep in the Sen voted for the 2 mos extension.
President Obama approval rating is going up because middle class rather rep or dem are seeing what a bunch idiots who care less about this country middle class.
The tea party have ruined this country, they rather take America down to the toliet as long as they destroy President Obama, playing with people unemployement benefits who can not feed their family, how can any one supports this party of selfish un Americans.
Gimme Gimme Gimme
December 21st, 2011
8:14 am
It is a pleasure to read your balanced blog Kyle. Bookman could learn a lesson about telling the whole story instead of half of it.
Well done.
Joe The Plumber too.
December 21st, 2011
8:14 am
gm, urkle is destroying himself just fine. He doesn’t need anybodys help.
Jason
December 21st, 2011
8:16 am
Kyle I am not sure whats going on but I have agreed with nearly everything you have had to say over the past week. I am neither Republican nor Democrat and I can see how both sides are not helping the average American but are only serving their own self interests. I am befuddled that most people choose to overlook this when it is so obvious and I blame a partisan media for keeping people ignorant. Judging by your posts over the past week it seems like you may finally be fed up with BOTH sides as well. If you and your counterpart Jay can call out both sides instead of further dividing us by placing your respective left / right partisan blame then perhaps we can make some progress. Whatever the reason I hope you keep up the good writing.
gm
December 21st, 2011
8:18 am
Joe The Plumber too.
Bend over and let the millionaires keep sticking it to you, its sad Obama has to fight for retards like you who are to stupid, to know when you are getting expolited.
Ernest T Bass
December 21st, 2011
8:23 am
Funny how when its a tax cut for working Americans its ” Stupid ”
Bet you wouldn’t feel that way if it was a tax cut for the wealthy.
That would be important cause they are the producers !!!
gm
December 21st, 2011
8:24 am
Joe The Plumber too.
Amazing where was the concern when Bush left your grand kids with a 700 billion dollar tab for 2 wars? where was the conncern when wall street ran wild? hypocrisy is unbelievable, now I see how hannity and rush can make millions off you idiots”””
Sbinf
December 21st, 2011
8:26 am
Spin spin. Of course this fight is helping someone, the president! Have you seen his poll numbers riding steadily? Boehner can’t control his caucus. I called this after the midterms. Republicans loved the tea party when it helped them retake the house, but now they actually have to govern with them. I am loving this train wreck!
itpdude
December 21st, 2011
8:29 am
I’m still trying to understand how the GOP can talk about paying for stuff when they got us stuck in a couple of wars and fired an economist who said Iraq would cost more than $60 billion or whatever the W narrative was at the time.
It’s just so strange. I know a lot of Republicans and they are some of the best people, however, the way they vote and the way they view policy is puzzling. Their representation doesn’t want to sunset tax cuts for the wealthiest amongst Americans (a segment that is doing just fine in these rough times) but do want to sunset the payroll tax rollback (which benefits the less-than-wealthy segment that is not doing so well these days).
It’s bizarre.
Joe The Plumber too.
December 21st, 2011
8:29 am
gm, please. I almost choked on my coffee with the image of barry flexing those urkle arms and fighting for me, what an image. Sorry, my mislead little fellow, but real Americans don’t need someone fighting for us or against us. We need our elected officials to do their d-mn job, even this pretender in chief. As far as the millionaires sticking it to someone, whats wrong did you find out all those government entitlements are never going to make you rich? Those evil rich. As far as me and mine, we are doing just fine with our company, investments and real estate, it’ll be a banner Christmas at Joe The Plumbers this year. Grow up and explore the world, stop being enslaved by security and try some freedom, then you can earn your own security. Get off the plantation.
commoncents
December 21st, 2011
8:31 am
Howard 7:57 “right now Tea Party Republicans in the House are about to cost me more $1000 because they have, again, tried, to play politics with a simple issue….extending the payroll tax cut for millions of Americans”
No, Obama is about to cost you $1000. He was responsible for the TEMPORARY CUT. Temporary does not mean permanent! This was supposed to jump start the economy. It did not, and now it is due to expire as it was designed, with the exception that it did not work.
You can thank Obama for another failed idea that will now result in you going back to your normal level of taxes. The reason they are fighting for it again is that it’s election season, not that they care about you!
Joe The Plumber too.
December 21st, 2011
8:32 am
gm, I expect my grandkids and theirs will be able to pay their share just fine…..how about yours, you can’t transfer ebt benefits.
Voice of Reason
December 21st, 2011
8:33 am
The Senate is at fault because they passed an unworkable 2 month extension, and Obama is at fault for backing that Bill despite the fact that he has continuously pushed for a year long extension.
Did any of you actually read the article?
Aquagirl
December 21st, 2011
8:33 am
I’m sick of people who make obligations and don’t live up to them……The Left wants to give more away. How’s that working for you?
It’s working really well for the Messieurs Graves and Rodgers. I bet that woman’s credit card bill wasn’t $2.2 million, and at least she paid half.
When your Georgia Republican Senate Majority leader says “I’m not paying that loan back, the FDIC can take care of it” complaining about “the Left” and their irresponsible ways makes you look foolish. That’s not working well for you JohnnyReb, but of course that sails right over your head.
GTPHISH
December 21st, 2011
8:35 am
<>
Right,
War in Iraq
War in Afganistan
Bush Tax cuts
Medicare Part D
None of those were paid for….
old cowboy
December 21st, 2011
8:37 am
Why not reduce the regular income tax 2 percent across the board and not take anymore from Social Security which is what the DEMOCRATS are doing by pushing their so called ” payroll taxes”. If that doesn’t scare those of us who will need that then nothing should.
Voice of Reason
December 21st, 2011
8:38 am
itpdude
Ah, the “Republicans have done stupid things in the past, so when they try to pass responsible legislation now, they are hypocrites that should be ignored” arguement. Never get tired of that one.
Note to all libs: Bush sucked, and his policy actions do not represent the views of all Republicans. (I can’t speak for everyone, but those that I know that follow politics and current events would agree) So enough with this arguement.
JohnnyReb
December 21st, 2011
8:39 am
Water Girl – yea, right over my head. Responsibility starts with the individual. It’s the same whether that individual is on welfare or is POTUS. No excuses for anyone. You can deny all you want, but the Left is for welfare and if left unchecked would kill the goose.
Gimme Gimme Gimme
December 21st, 2011
8:46 am
itpdude@8:29 I’m still trying to understand
We are not surprised.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
8:47 am
Aquagirl: Trying to anticipate the caucus of NO is like trying to arrange a birthday party around a toddler’s wishes
——————————
No need to anticipate anything. The House already passed the payroll tax cut. The Senate passed a different bill and then skipped town without bothering to negotiate a final bill.
The GOP House gave Obozo what he said he wanted–a year long extension.
Why can’t obstructionist Democrats take “yes” for an answer? Because they’re too busy playing politics to get the people’s business done.
Aquagirl
December 21st, 2011
8:48 am
Responsibility starts with the individual. It’s the same whether that individual is on welfare or is POTUS.
I’m sure you spend as much time expressing your outrage over Chip Roger’s lazy default as you do complaining about Obama here. Yes, you’ve e-mailed, written, and called daily inquiring why this d00d is considered a leader by his Republican peers. Thanks for your tireless service, JohnnyReb.
Or maybe you’re sitting on your duff in front of the TV whining about some woman on a commercial, because you can somehow hang that on libs, Demoncrats, and “the Left” while your own guy robs us blind while brazenly announcing his robbery.
Gosh, I wonder which of those two scenarios is more likely?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
8:50 am
GTPHISH:
War in Iraq
War in Afganistan
Bush Tax cuts
Medicare Part D
None of those were paid for….
————————————-
And how has that “changed” in the last three years?
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
December 21st, 2011
8:53 am
commoncents said it best.
Let’s try a payroll tax cut to boost the economy, and let’s make it temporary to see if it works.
It didn’t work? Well, let’s do it again!
Only in the minds of this current Administration would logic like that seem plausible.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
8:58 am
Sbinf: Republicans loved the tea party when it helped them retake the house, but now they actually have to govern with them. I am loving this train wreck!
————————-
Real change isn’t easy or pretty. The kind of change Obozo promised (more spending, bigger handounts, less personal responsibility, blaming others) is the easiest thing in the world.
The train wreck you are going to get isn’t the one you’re hoping for.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
9:02 am
The House conferees are in DC waiting for the reconciliation talks to start. Where are the Democrats?
JDW
December 21st, 2011
9:08 am
@Kyle…”I have a hard time understanding the sudden conventional wisdom that public opinion about the situation will favor…Senate Democrats, who want to enact a two-month extension offset by a tax on middle-class mortgagees…President Obama, who has repeatedly said he wants a full-year extension of the payroll-tax holiday”
Kyle, Kyle, Kyle you are a smart guy I am sure you get it, but feel compelled to carry this muddy Republican water for some reason.
The Senate Democrats yet again have capitulated to the Republican filibuster machine. You are right it is not a very good deal however, the Senate Democrats have held their nose and turned up their rears and made a deal. I wish they would grow a backbone tell the Republicans to pound salt at this point. However, they come out of this smelling better because they did something, at least on paper in a “bipartisan fashion” to give people a tax cut.
Obama, smells better because he now has the opportunity to tout the very same concept…hey look we want a better deal but at the end of the day we have to work with the Republicans..we did just what they wanted and now they want more?
Boehner has lost control. If he had a shred of self respect he would resign. His own caucus roasted him on the debt ceiling fiasco and now they have left him out dry. Fact is he can’t get anything done.
The Republicans had a marvelous negotiating run this year and have gotten almost everything on their wish list but what they have failed to understand is that if you get almost everything but continue to push for more you will ultimately lose it all.
Streetracer
December 21st, 2011
9:09 am
For some of the factually challanged up there:
The house passed a bill that did pretty much what Obama said he wanted. That is an one year extension of the payroll tax reduction (which was paid for with what seems to me reasonable spending cuts [for example, why should 2000+ millionares receive unemployment benefits]). The only sticking point was the Keystone XL pipeline. That project would actually provide truely “shovel ready” jobs at no cost to the US Government (paid for by the owner, Trans-Canada).
On the other hand, the Senate passed a bill that would create an accounting and processing nightmare (because of the short duration), and is “paid for” by a permanent fee on any mortgage guaranteed by Fannie Mae or Freedie Mac. BTW: That mortgage fee does not go to Social Security or Medicare, but to the General Fund, and is regressive in nature.
Explain to me why the House is the bad guy here.
JDW
December 21st, 2011
9:10 am
@LBB…”The House conferees are in DC waiting for the reconciliation talks”
First off there are no conferees. Second if they are waiting for the reconciliation talks they are just flat stupid.
td
December 21st, 2011
9:10 am
All you libs seem to forget a few facts:
This is not a tax cut but rather a reduction in an insurance premium. We pay these premiums each month so that we can have a pay out when we reach retirement. We pay taxes to run the government today and we pay these premiums for the future.
These are the facts and what we are doing now is nothing more than wanting our future benefits now (sort of like what we did with taking out equity loans to pay for vacations and new cars a few years ago) and not thinking about the future. We are going to make our children and grand children pay more in the future to pay for our greed today. Are all you libs and establishment Republicans proud of your choices for give me, me, me now, now, now?
gm
December 21st, 2011
9:11 am
Joe The Plumber too.
Thats the differents between tre Americans and selfish Americans, my family and I are doing fine, but I care about the millions out there who umemployment check will run because they can not find work, I rather have a person from another country living next to me then a selfish un American like yourself and your kind.
The ladder you came up on you will have to come down on, you are on the plantation becaue you and your party do not have morales and values (newt) and this is part whats brining this country down, thank God we have passionate President who cares about the under dog”””
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
9:13 am
JDW: However, [Democrats] out of this smelling better because they did something
———————————
Given the corrupt state of the Obozomedia, you may not be aware that the GOP House “did something” too…they passed the year-long tax holiday Obozo wanted and paid for it.
Now the House conferees are waiting for the Senate Democrats to negotiate a final bill, but they seem to have skipped town before finishing the job the people pay them to do.
JDW
December 21st, 2011
9:14 am
@TD…”We are going to make our children and grand children pay more in the future to pay for our greed today”
No question but where are you with this sentiment when the Republicans are tossing away Trillions of dollars on unfunded tax cuts, Medicare Plans and wars? I am sure you were one of the first in line to shout hurrah when the Bush tax giveaway was extended.
GTPHISH
December 21st, 2011
9:15 am
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
Dude, your name is clever, but, lets not forget, Bush bailed out the banks, so perhaps you should (revise downward your own stupid name)….
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
9:16 am
JDW: First off there are no conferees.
——————
Boehner names conferees for payroll tax bill
http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/domestic-taxes/200589-boehner-names-conferees-for-payroll-tax-bill
Oopsies!
JDW
December 21st, 2011
9:16 am
LBB…you are truly one of the 1%…you never get it and never will. Risk any more lives in traffic today proving you are indeed the biggest A$$?
JDW
December 21st, 2011
9:17 am
@LBB…”Boehner names conferees for payroll tax bill”
Did you ever notice that it takes TWO parties to actually pass anything? Boehner is just playing in his pockets.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
9:20 am
JDW, I don’t blame you for your embarrassment over getting caught without the facts.
Yes, it takes two parties to pass anything. And guess what’s supposed to happen when the two chambers pass differing bills?
That’s right–the two parties meet in conference to hammer out a COMPROMISE.
Unfortunately, the GOP doesn’t have anyone to comprimise with, because the Democrat Senate skipped town before doing the work the people pay them for.
GTPHISH
December 21st, 2011
9:20 am
LBB, ever heard of TARP? Probably not, for a fat girl, you sure don’t sweat much….
“The TARP program was created in 2008 to stabilize the financial system. The Treasury Department has committed more than $500 billion to more than 800 firms through the program. While Mr. Obama did not enact TARP, his administration has largely been responsible for administering it.”
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20013452-503544.html
td
December 21st, 2011
9:21 am
JDW
December 21st, 2011
9:14 am
I was on these boards railing against Medicare part D everyday. We disagree about the Bush (now Obama) tax cuts because it has been proven that tax cuts bring in more revenue not less.
As far as unfunded wars, I will agree but for probably different reasons. Funding wars are one of the few duties of the Federal government and they should have been on the books. We should have paid for them by reducing the federal government and not by raising taxes.
Joe The Plumber too.
December 21st, 2011
9:25 am
poor little gm, if you want to live next to a person from another country, perhaps I could interest you in one of my rentals as they come available, but I will need first, last and deposit and I don’t do section 8 or accept ebt. Let me know if you need an application. Bless your heart.
td
December 21st, 2011
9:25 am
GTPHISH
December 21st, 2011
9:20 am
Yes, Obama voted for TARP and his administration was responsible for most of the regulations that implemented TARP and administered the entire program.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
9:27 am
GTPHISH: LBB, ever heard of TARP?
———————–
Yes, our President Bush got that passed, fixing the financial meltdown, and the recession ended in June 2009. Yawn.
The real story is how Obozo has so mismanaged the economy since then. 9% unemployment for years, $1.5 trillion annual deficits, record numbers in poverty and on food stamps.
Obozo: Fail.
JDW
December 21st, 2011
9:27 am
@TD…”because it has been proven that tax cuts bring in more revenue not less.”
You are working on false assumptions. What you see below are tax collections by year in constant 2005 dollars. Please note that beginning in 2001 tax revenues shrink each year until 2004. Then they rise until 2007 and start down again. Following the Bush giveaway program there have been only two years in which tax revenues equaled or exceeded those in 2000…that’s less not more.
2000 2,310.0
2001 2,215.3
2002 2,028.6
2003 1,901.1
2004 1,949.5
2005 2,153.6
2006 2,324.1
2007 2,414.0
2008 2,286.8
2009 1,898.3
2010 1,919.0
Estimates
2011 1,901.9
2012 2,261.5
2013 2,541.3
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
9:30 am
So the tax cuts were fully implemented in 2003, and then tax revenue went up in each of the next four years. Thanks for the confirmation.
Perhaps we should have cut taxes again in 2007.
HDB
December 21st, 2011
9:31 am
td
December 21st, 2011
9:21 am
EVERY war effort this nation has undertaken save Bush’s Iraq and Afghanistan expeditions was financed via tax INCREASES!! There was no way to properly finance the war AND provide the required governmental services by taking the war spending off the books!! During wartime, this nation has been asked to sacrifice….but Bush didn’t do that…..and we’re paying for it NOW!!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
9:33 am
HDB: we’re paying for it NOW!!
———————
Actually, we aren’t. Obozo’s deficit this year is another $1.3 trillion.
JDW
December 21st, 2011
9:35 am
@TD…and while I am on the subject of tax cuts.
A) As we have just seen they do not produce more revenue.
B) They don’t produce jobs either.
What produces jobs is demand. A business hires each and every one of their employees because they expect to make more than they spend. They will never ever make a hiring decision if they believe they will make less than they spend. In all of the hiring decisions I have made and seen made over the years, both individually and organizationally, I have never ever heard the subject of taxes come up. In fact operationally businesses measure results on some version of Earnings BEFORE Taxes for that very reason.
So a tax cut can indirectly increase the market for jobs if and only if it raises demand. To accomplish that it must be spent. That’s a prime reason this tax cuts for job producer’s line is pure hogwash. Those tax cuts do almost nothing to impact the job market because that money is typically not spent.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
9:37 am
Unemployment went down after our President Bush cut taxes in 2003.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
9:40 am
In all of the hiring decisions I have made and seen made over the years, both individually and organizationally, I have never ever heard the subject of taxes come up.
———————–
Every ROI calc I’ve ever seen most certainly does take tax rates into account. Higher tax rates result in fewer new companies, fewer big investments, and fewer jobs.
jconservative
December 21st, 2011
9:40 am
“I don’t understand how Senate Republicans — who voted in large numbers for a two-month extension of the holiday — could have been so far out of step with House Republicans who insist on the year-long extension they’ve already passed.”
Senate Republicans say that Boehner endorsed the Senate Republican compromise of 2 months, then had an about face after the House Republican Caucus objected.
The Republican problem in congress all year has been Boehner’s inability to control his own caucus.
The Senate Republicans have made deals with Boehner all year only to have Boehner back out at the last second. He really folds rather quickly.
Bottom line politically is that 156 million people who pay FICA will see a 2% tax increase 1/1/12.
So we can expect that no later than the end of January a 12 month extension of the payroll tax back dated to 1/1/12. Republicans are not going into the 2012 election bragging on raising taxes by 2% on 156 million voters.
At least I do not think they will.
What???
December 21st, 2011
9:42 am
Enter your comments here
What???
December 21st, 2011
9:44 am
LBB-
So the tax cuts were fully implemented in 2003, and then tax revenue went up in each of the next four years.
But they didn’t past the 2000 number until 2006…so you waited 6 years to get back to 2000 revenue.. How is that smart. Would you let me cut your pay now and tell you in 6 years you will make 1% more than you made in 2012?
clyde
December 21st, 2011
9:45 am
I don’t know what the Republicans hope to gain by this.I’ll have to wait and see.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
9:47 am
What???: But they didn’t past the 2000 number until 2006
———————————
If the tax rates between 2000 and 2003 were so great, why did revenue go down? Because the economy slowed after Clinton’s dot-com bust and 9/11. Our President Bush wisely cut tax rates to get the economy growing again, and it worked.
Lower tax rates. Higher tax revenue. Lower unemployment.
Thank you, President Bush. Unfortunately, we’ve forgotten the lessons You and our President Reagan taught us.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
9:48 am
clyde: I don’t know what the Republicans hope to gain by this.
————————
Fiscal sanity.
Oh, you meant politically, eh?
JDW
December 21st, 2011
9:49 am
@LBB..”Higher tax rates result in fewer new companies, fewer big investments, and fewer jobs.”
There is no data on “big investments” but the data on new company creation and jobs does not produce such a correlation. In fact in many cases the data seems to indicate exactly the opposite. When do you think more jobs and companies were created…1992 to 2000 or 2000 to 2008?
What???
December 21st, 2011
9:51 am
1 He cut taxes when he came into office so couldn’t the loss in revenue be attirbuted to those same cuts. .
2. If you are attributing unemployment solely to taxes, then why did Clinton have lower unemployment than Bush throughout his presidency.
3. On that same note, then the actual rate of taxation would have litle to do with anything because Reagan produced jobs at a 50% tax rate(didn’t reach 28% until 2nd term), And jobs were produced at higher rates prior to Bush
4. On a micro level, would you let me lower your pay now for a bump 6 years from now?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
9:52 am
Let’s see, were more jobs created during the growth of the dot-com bubble, or after it burst?
A real mystery.
Our President Bush had some big messes to clean up after 2000. A war on terror that his predecessor didn’t realize was being waged against us, and an imploding economy after the Internet-induced irrational exuberance.
jconservative
December 21st, 2011
9:53 am
“Unemployment went down after our President Bush cut taxes in 2003.”
And Net Jobs Created went down from 20% to 0% (yes zero) after Bush cut taxes.
In fact, Net Jobs Created went down from 27% to 20% after Reagan cut taxes.
So after huge tax cuts for 30 years Net Jobs Created has gone from 27% to 0%.
The number of jobs created minus the number of jobs lost is at zero per cent. A 30 year trend.
Yet we have been cutting taxes for 30 years. Another trend.
Of course, we can make the Obama argument that if we had not cut taxes then it would have been worse. Maybe. Maybe not.
What do you call it when you do the same thing over and over and expect a different result?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
9:56 am
In any case, this is all water under the bridge.
The question is how to deal with today’s reality. Apparently, Obozo’s plan is to spend our way out of it, impose lots of new expensive regulations, and create tons of uncertainty about future tax rates. Sounds like a winner!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
9:57 am
jconservative: What do you call it when you do the same thing over and over and expect a different result?
—————————
There are two million fewer jobs today than when Obozo took office. What he’s doing is failing.
We need change.
What???
December 21st, 2011
9:58 am
LBB-
create tons of uncertainty about future tax rates
What uncertainity, it’s either 35 or 39 at the top. I’m a lot more uncertain about consumer demand than I am about my tax rate. And the last study I saw, the regulations between this administration and the prior administration were about the same i believe..
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
10:03 am
What uncertainity
——————–
The more important bit of uncertainty is regarding capital gains rates, which are currently at 15% but would increase by a third, to 20%, if I’m not mistaken. This will reduce investment and cost jobs.
JDW
December 21st, 2011
10:06 am
@LBB..”In any case, this is all water under the bridge.”
Indeed, which I assume is your way of saying you got nothing let. Now as to what to do next. As jconservative points out we have established a 30 year trend. Why on earth should we elect more people that plan to do the same thing that has failed over and over again?
What???
December 21st, 2011
10:07 am
LBB-
So now we are just worried about capital gains rates..ok, well lets keep those permanent and move the marginal rates back to the 2000 era(not even gonna begin to see what the capital gains rates was in 2000, seems to me if we had a stock bubble, they probably don’t matter as much).
JDW
December 21st, 2011
10:09 am
“This will reduce investment and cost jobs.”
HORSE HOOEY! We have already been through the jobs bit no impact. As for reduced investment…get back to me when the investors are fully invested then and only then will taxes have an impact on investments.
carlosgvv
December 21st, 2011
10:09 am
And yet, come election day, millions and millions of Americans will vote for these clowns and probably re-elect them.
What???
December 21st, 2011
10:10 am
LBB-
Nevermind, it was quick to lookup, they were 10 and 20%..so we had a bubble at 10 and 20%, low unemployment, and pretty good investment….so obviously the cap gains rate didn’t really suppress anything.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
10:22 am
I’d be fine with the 2000 tax rates so long as we go back to the 2000 spending rates.
MarkV
December 21st, 2011
10:26 am
Seldom I have seen Kyle to be as wrong in the heading of his article as this time. He would have to be blind not to see that the “stupid payroll-tax fight” is benefiting Obama and the Congress Democrats.
MarkV
December 21st, 2011
10:27 am
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate! @8:53 am “Let’s try a payroll tax cut to boost the economy, and let’s make it temporary to see if it works. It didn’t work? Well, let’s do it again! Only in the minds of this current Administration would logic like that seem plausible.”
The recent good economic news must be a nightmare for you.
gm
December 21st, 2011
10:30 am
Wow, Kyle tell that to the millions of Rep and Dem who unemployment checks will not be extended while they are looking for work, I am sure extra 16 weeks makes a different when buying food.
This is what rep conservatives do, put a spin on people lifes , Kyle you try to live off of 320 week, this bill is more then payroll tax, rep and dem in the Senate voted for this, this is the same spin rich idiots like hannity and rush uses to expolit middle class conservatives and they fall for it every time.
Jefferson
December 21st, 2011
10:38 am
The right thing to do is let the cut expire, raise the rate an addtional .5% and collect it on both sides of all income earned. People are living longer, they should have to pay their way for their earned benifits.
Where are the REAL conservatives ?
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 21st, 2011
10:41 am
Since when do Capital Gains rates affect job creation?
The only time the job creators (businesses) see any money from investors is at start up or IPO.
Other than that the majority is stock sales and the profit from them.
What???
December 21st, 2011
10:47 am
Common Sense-
Since when do Capital Gains rates affect job creation?
Ask LBB
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
10:50 am
While I dont agree with the House’s decision on not extending the payroll tax holiday……plenty of blame still falls in the lap of the president and senate democrats.
Kyle Wingfield
December 21st, 2011
10:50 am
MarkV @ 10:26: Do you really think the public is going to name a “winner” here? I think this only cements the outrage at the system.
The whole thing has been very clearly about gaining the upper hand and making each other look bad, from the “middle class vs. millionaires” rhetoric of the Dems, to the GOP’s linking the issue to the pipeline approval, to the Senate’s bipartisan compromise of a short-term deal that independent experts have declared nigh-impossible to implement, to the House majority’s inability to back a deal their leader (Boehner) thought he’d struck.
Anyone who has been paying attention for more than two minutes ought to realize that, and declare a pox on all their houses.
Kyle Wingfield
December 21st, 2011
10:53 am
Similar, I might add, to the reaction to the debt-ceiling fight. No one was spared any blame in that one.
Hillbilly D
December 21st, 2011
10:54 am
Common Sense
Good point. If I sell you Coca-Cola stock, or vice versa, it really has no effect on the Coca-Cola company. Their stock was sold years ago. Theoretically, it affects them by keeping stock holders happy and the Board can keep their jobs but we know that in the real world, the stock holders have little or no say in who is on the Board or what they do.
As to the original topic The stupid payroll-tax fight isn’t going to benefit anyone
I pretty much agree with that.
Hillbilly D
December 21st, 2011
10:55 am
Do you really think the public is going to name a “winner” here? I think this only cements the outrage at the system.
Another good point. I don’t know who the “winner” will be, if there is one, but I know who the losers will be, those of us in the Great Unwashed.
JDW
December 21st, 2011
10:56 am
@LBB…”I’d be fine with the 2000 tax rates so long as we go back to the 2000 spending rates.”
No problem, so long as we are talking inflation constant dollars, and as I have said before you only have your President Bush to blame. When he took office one of the first things he did was rescind PAYGO which required that all new spending be funded. If he had left it intact we would not be nearly in this pickle today.
Jefferson
December 21st, 2011
10:56 am
It’s clear the blame is the tea reps.
td
December 21st, 2011
10:56 am
JDW
December 21st, 2011
9:35 am
According to your logic a tax decrease may or may not spur more demand depending on if the consumers uses the additional money to purchase a product, pay off bills or save the additional money for a rainy day. I would argue that the demand may not be immediate but if the consumer is paying off bills now or saving the money then the money will create demand in the future due to digging into the rainy day fund or by freeing up credit to be used later. The alternative is a tax increase and to let the government spend the money because it will not be in the consumers hands. This method is a planned government controlled economy and does not work long term because the higher tax rates does not create the incentive on the risk takers to create new products that will produce new demand.
To put it another way, if I am going to take a chance that I may lose all of my money on a product, knowing that after I pay my taxes I will only realize a 10 to 20% return on my investment in years to come if my product is successful then why should I take the risk when I can get a assured 5% return on my money sitting it on the sidelines investing in municipal bonds?
High risk equals high reward in the unplanned economy and that is where you see jobs created and demand for products higher.
JDW
December 21st, 2011
11:00 am
@Kyle…”Do you really think the public is going to name a “winner” here? ”
Not so much name a winner as decide between two very poor choices…and I think that in that light the Democrats will pick up ground.
HDB
December 21st, 2011
11:01 am
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
9:56 am
The question is how to deal with today’s reality.
When Bush’s plan was to spend our way out of it, eliminate regulations, and create tons of uncertainty about future tax rates, the economy went south.
When Obama’s plan was to arrest the depression, stabilize the economy, re-regulate the marketplace, attack health care….the economy slowly improved.
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
11:03 am
HDB…..are we going to compare Bush’s spending to Obama’s?
What???
December 21st, 2011
11:03 am
td-
This method is a planned government controlled economy and does not work long term because the higher tax rates does not create the incentive on the risk takers to create new products that will produce new demand.
So when the top marginal tax rates were high, was there no incentives? i could swear looking into the past that there was a lot of new innovations at much higher rates.
There is very little correlation between taxes and demand. Have you ever said I going to buy a car dpending on my marginal tax rate?
Philippines news: The stupid payroll-tax fight isn’t going to benefit anyone – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) | Pinas.Net
December 21st, 2011
11:05 am
[...] The stupid payroll-tax fight isn’t going to benefit anyoneAtlanta Journal Constitution (blog)No one is completely in the right in the Washington-wide temper tantrum over extending the payroll-tax holiday. I don’t understand how Senate Republicans — who voted in large numbers for a two-month extension of the holiday — could have been so far out …In A Year Of Partisan Brawls, Congress Goes One More RoundNPR (blog)TexMessage: Kevin Brady named as conferee on payroll tax cut extensionHouston Chronicle (blog)Americans face payroll tax increase amid standoff between Obama and BoehnerEconomic TimesFox News -WPXI Pittsburgh -WatertownDailyTimes.comall 5,420 news articles » [...]
gm
December 21st, 2011
11:07 am
UGA 1999
plenty of blame still falls in the lap of the president and senate democrats
I guess the 39 Rep who voted for the bill are clean? Hypocrisy to the fullest, I am so glad these idiots got elected 2010, now the world see these inside terrorist tea party people for what they are”””
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
11:10 am
Gm……”now the world see these inside terrorist”??? WHAT??? hahahahaah
JDW
December 21st, 2011
11:10 am
@TD…”The alternative is a tax increase and to let the government spend the money because it will not be in the consumers hands.”
No that is not the alternative. The Government is already spending the money and borrowing to do that. Bringing that disconnect into balance will actually spur investment not dampen it. Today should an investor choose to take the “safe route” they buy US debt. If the day comes when the US needs much less new debt, see the 1990’s, investment in new ventures is increased because there is no longer a good parking place. Money is deployed and investments are made.
As for your 5% to 10%-20% analogy…there is not an investor anywhere that will not assume quite a bit of risk for that type spread. A return on employed capital that exceeds the cost of borrowing is a positive return and investors will take risks. For an ROCE of 10% more than the cost of borrowing they will do back flips. That kind of return can raise all the cash it ever needs.
HDB
December 21st, 2011
11:13 am
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
11:03 am
That’s easy to do! Bush’s expeditions into Iraq and Afghanistan…although “off the books” and unfunded mandates, coupled along with TARP and bailouts vs. restabilizing the economy, saving the auto industry, and arresting a depression……….
Remember the Cheney Doctrine: “Reagan says: ‘….deficits don’t matter’”.
NO ONE decried this level of spending when the nation was BUSHwhacked…..but when Obama came into the White House, only THEN did spending become an issue!! Right now, if you compare the Obama deficits to the Bush deficits….government spending is basically FLAT!! Trillion-dollar deficits are what Bush left us……..THAT is a certainty!!
Kyle Wingfield
December 21st, 2011
11:15 am
JDW @ 11:00: I guess I need to expand on the point a bit: A fight in which everyone looks bad doesn’t end up contributing very much to the overall picture for any group. People end up making their judgments on other bases. I suppose there could be a tiny bit of movement at the margins, but I think it will be negligible.
Now, here’s where the GOP may be severely miscalculating: Just as a tie goes to the runner in baseball, a fight in which both sides look bad probably doesn’t hurt the incumbent. And the GOP has been giving itself extra leeway — probably too much leeway — on these kinds of issues, with the assumption that the economy is going to be so bad next year that the president can’t be re-elected. (I do not think they are actively trying to sabotage the economy for their own political benefit, as some wild-eyed folks on here claim from time to time, just as I don’t subscribe to the conspiracy theory that Obama is trying to submarine the economy in order to usher in a new era of American socialism. I think the two sides have genuine differences of opinion as to which policies benefit the economy, and which ones don’t.)
If that assumption is wrong, and there are signs that it may be, then the leeway they’ve given themselves as a result could come back to bite them spectacularly.
td
December 21st, 2011
11:16 am
What???
December 21st, 2011
11:03 am
This higher rate is the past is a rue that you Dems cling too. It is comparing apples to oranges. When the tax rates were higher then the deductions were greater (tax loopholes) and actual revenues coming into the government were less. As marginal tax rates have been cut so have loopholes. For example: Before the Reagan tax cuts one could deduct every penny of interest you paid (Credit cards, cars, loans ect…) and this allowed people to purchase items interest free. We now do not have such deductions so we pay more in interest but can afford it because we pay less in taxes.
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
11:19 am
HDB….Care to compare to the GDP? For the first time in HISTORY our debt has exceeded on GDP. Tell me again what happened in Greece?
Also, Obama has risen the deby by an average of $1.7 Trillion per year, while Bush averaged only $1.116 per year. So, you believe that $600 BILLION is not a substantial number?
JDW
December 21st, 2011
11:20 am
@UGA 1999…”are we going to compare Bush’s spending to Obama’s?”
Yes lets…Obama has slowed the increase of spending since taking office. I had this discussion with Kyle the other day and it turns out that the rate of spending increase has decreased since FY2010…In fact in every case since Reagan Republican Presidents have increased spending at higher rates than Democrats.
gm
December 21st, 2011
11:21 am
UGA 1999
I guess the 39 Rep who voted for the bill are clean?
I know, find humor when you have no answer, terrorist overseas are not destroying America the rep party are doing much worst, the truth shall set you free””””’
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
11:21 am
HAHA….,my favorite Christmas song of all time!!
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bca_1324420664
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
11:22 am
gm……”doing much worst”????? LMFAO!!! Dude for real????
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
11:23 am
JDW…..Lets talk hard numbers not just “slowed and increases”….Look at the actually dollars that each president is responsible for.
MarkV
December 21st, 2011
11:24 am
Kyle Wingfield @10:50 am: “MarkV @ 10:26: Do you really think the public is going to name a “winner” here? I think this only cements the outrage at the system.”
Yes, I do. And the polls seem to confirm that.
Pizzaman
December 21st, 2011
11:27 am
Kyle, don’t really care who wins. Both sides are wrong. BUT IF the Teapublicans cause change in my Medicare I will personally sue each one of the for dereliction of duty and violation of their Constitutional oath and demand jail time!!!!!!!!!!!!!
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
11:27 am
MarkV….both the Dems and the Reps are to blame here.
gm
December 21st, 2011
11:28 am
UGA 1999
Still can not prove me wrong, I know the truth hurts, when you been brain washed by no news fox, keep laughing
Kyle Wingfield
December 21st, 2011
11:29 am
MarkV @ 11:24: If you have a link to a poll that bears out that notion, I’d like to see it.
What???
December 21st, 2011
11:29 am
td-
Wouldn’t that make everything a wash. If in the past, I had a 70% marginal rate but more decutions, then it was lowered to a 50% rate with less deductions, the difference of 20%, wouldn’t that correlate to the interest I paid on everything.(Under the assumption that all money was spent)
Using real numbers(50k @ 70% is 35k, 50k at 50% is 25k, assuming everything was purchased using credit, and looking at interest rates at the time which averaged over 20%, wouldn’t that negate any tax savings.)
Fresh Prince of Belfast
December 21st, 2011
11:30 am
Jefferson
December 21st, 2011
10:38 am
Where are the REAL conservatives ?
No such thing. Everyone’s a liberal, just for different things. Republicans are liberal spenders on highways, business subsidies, and especially the military. Democrats are liberal spenders for social services.
The last Republican who shrank government was Ike. But don’t tell Reagan fanboys that.
getalife
December 21st, 2011
11:30 am
After the cons get destroyed this election, they will be marginalized as kooks where they belong and our country will come back.
We are in the last throes of the kooky con movement.
Hang in there Americans.
What???
December 21st, 2011
11:31 am
UGA 1999-
So, you believe that $600 BILLION is not a substantial number?
You have t attribute half that money to the prior administration. TARP was allocated on the books over 3 years. The other half was stimulus.
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
11:32 am
Look at all of these McCain voters. I wish they would start supporting Obama….hahaha
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=598_1324418050
td
December 21st, 2011
11:33 am
JDW
December 21st, 2011
11:10 am
The borrowing is so high due to out of control government spending. The real question should be what is the primary role of government? Is it to make sure the markets are fair or is to make sure of the outcomes of the markets? Is the role of government to protect the citizens from outside forces and from inside law breaking or is the role of government to take care of the people and to insure there outcomes in life?
Why should we be a country that spends more on education then any other country in the world, while at the same time has the highest dropout rate of any other industrial nation?
Why do we have 25% of the population receiving Food Stamps, 43% of the population receiving some type of government handout while at the same time 47% pay nothing to help run government?
We have fundamental problems in this nation that will not be taken care of with tax increases (on the producers) and we must take a serious look at how we expect our own brothers, sisters and neighbors to work and become a producer and not a parasite.
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
11:33 am
gm…..”when you been brain washed”…….Ebonics in full effect!!! hahaha
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
11:33 am
What???? Actually no you dont. It falls on this administration. Nice try though.
JDW
December 21st, 2011
11:34 am
@Kyle…RE your 11:15.
I agree with most of that…it really does no one any good and probably does the most of us harm. To some extent the actual impact of the issue here, the tax holiday, is most likely less than the impact of the fight. Let me explain, I think that by far the most important thing holding the economy back is this environment of uncertainty and turmoil. The actual decisions themselves, like most decisions, will never be perfect. The important thing is to hash it out, take your best options and then GET ON WITH IT. This is where I think the Republican strategy of grinding the wheels of government to a halt is really causing far more damage than it could ever cause good. Case in point the Debt Ceiling, we ended up where we always would have but wreaked havoc along the way.
Same thing with the funding of Government. At some point we will cut spending and raise taxes. It is inevitable and it will happen. The thing to do is get it done now and MOVE ON. Whether it is Simpson Bowles, The Gang of Six, Obama/Boehner really MAKES NO DIFFERENCE IN THE LONG RUN.
Now to the lasting impact. Elections in this country are decided by the center. There are always party faithful on both sides of the equation but the winner must capture the center. The Republicans are simply lowering the bar for capturing the center on a daily basis.
Fresh Prince of Belfast
December 21st, 2011
11:35 am
getalife
December 21st, 2011
11:30 am
After the cons get destroyed this election, they will be marginalized as kooks where they belong and our country will come back.
Don’t count on it
What???
December 21st, 2011
11:36 am
UGA 1999-
So what 600 1.8 billion dollar appropriation has this administration created.
Governmental acconting spread the cost over the years actually incurred. Hence why in 2009, the actaul portion of stimulus was only 199, the other part wasn’t administered yet.
JDW
December 21st, 2011
11:41 am
@TD…”The borrowing is so high due to out of control government spending. The real question should be what is the primary role of government?”
hat is simply not true. It is the combination of higher spending and lower taxes that is the culprit. Taxes today are lower as a % of GDP than they have been since the 1940’s by a HUGE MARGIN. If you take it in raw dollars we current rate of 14.3% of GDP in taxes. In the late 1990’s we were in the 18.5% to 20% range. The difference is between $600 and $800 BILLION. That is more than half of the current deficit. It is not just spending.
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
11:44 am
What?? Do you want me to list all of the spending that Obama has done in his short three years?
Fresh Prince of Belfast
December 21st, 2011
11:47 am
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
11:44 am
What?? Do you want me to list all of the spending that Obama has done in his short three years?
Better idea: don’t post.
JDW
December 21st, 2011
11:59 am
TD…”Why do we have 25% of the population receiving Food Stamps, 43% of the population receiving some type of government handout while at the same time 47% pay nothing to help run government?”
You are contorting statistics. The easy one is the 47%…47% pay no Federal income tax because they don’t make enough money. They do pay SSI, Medicare/Medicaid, sales tax, property tax etc…to say they don’t pay anything to fund the government would rate as a “Pants on Fire” if Politifact reviewed you.
As for the 25% on Food Stamps and 43% receiving a “government” handout, those numbers are not supported by the facts. The real number on Americans that are dependent on Government assistance is very high, it is currently 1 in 6 or about 16.5%. The Food Stamp total is about 44 million or about 14%.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/12/news/economy/government_safety_net/index.htm
getalife
December 21st, 2011
12:00 pm
wingnut,
Even you pundits are turning on the gop.
At what point will you tell the cons they are living in la la land and not the real world?
After you get clobbered in the election?
Why not do it now for credibility.
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
12:03 pm
JDW….47% of Americans pay no income tax because our tax laws are flawed!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
12:04 pm
UGA, your debt numbers are off. According to the Treasury Department, the national debt, including everything, went up $4.9 trillion in our President Bush’s eight years, and $4.6 trillion in two-plus years of the Obozo regime.
MarkV
December 21st, 2011
12:09 pm
Kyle Wingfield @11:29 am
You have not seen polls showing Obama’s increased approval? Polls showing that the Republicans are losing approval? I can spend the time finding the links if you insist, but I think it would be a waste of time.
I have hard time believing what you are arguing. People in general considering the details of what is going on? Come on. They see Obama and the Democrats trying to get them tax break and other benefits, and the Republicans blocking it. Just as they have only seen the economy being in bad shape and blaming Obama, without considering what he has had to overcome.
Fresh Prince of Belfast
December 21st, 2011
12:13 pm
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
12:03 pm
JDW….47% of Americans pay no income tax because our tax laws are flawed!
Good idea, tax the poor. A winning strategy devised by a mental giant.
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
12:14 pm
Fresh…..tax the poor….great idea. Tax those who get the most from our system. Great idea.
MarkV
December 21st, 2011
12:14 pm
Kyle Wingfield @11:29 am
http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/20/politics/behind-obama-polls/index.html
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
12:16 pm
MarkV…great job, Quote a CNN poll, they are not biased at all!!! ha. You guys are so predictable.
Kyle Wingfield
December 21st, 2011
12:18 pm
MarkV @ 12:14: There’s nothing specifically about the payroll-tax debate in that poll or story. That’s what I’m asking about.
Fresh Prince of Belfast
December 21st, 2011
12:19 pm
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
12:16 pm
MarkV…great job, Quote a CNN poll, they are not biased at all!!! ha. You guys are so predictable.
^^^^ Irony right here, y’all ^^^^
JDW
December 21st, 2011
12:20 pm
@UGA 1999…”JDW….47% of Americans pay no income tax because our tax laws are flawed!”
And I suppose you spend your days trying to squeeze blood out of turnips rather than asking yourself what is wrong with that process…
JDW
December 21st, 2011
12:23 pm
@UGA 1999…”Tax those who get the most from our system. Great idea.”
And I guess you think that is the guy washing dishes down at the local diner rather than the Wall Street Banker about to get $1 million in bonus…
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
12:23 pm
JDW….”blood from turnips”? Nope, never.
However I do look at the system and try to think of ways it could be fixed, rather than just saying “tax the rich, they can afford it!”
MarkV
December 21st, 2011
12:24 pm
JDW @11:34 am: “I think that by far the most important thing holding the economy back is this environment of uncertainty and turmoil..”
I think this argument about uncertainty as the most important thing is at least very exaggerated if it means, as the conservatives argue, uncertainty of taxes, regulations etc. The only “uncertainty” that is really important is the uncertainty of demand. As we have seen recently, an increase in demand immediately results in hiring. This is where the action of the Republicans is damaging the economy – by blocking people who would spend the money, the unemployed and the middle class, from getting a break.
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
12:25 pm
MarkV…..Question: Do you own a business?
Fresh Prince of Belfast
December 21st, 2011
12:26 pm
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
12:23 pm
However I do look at the system and try to think of ways it could be fixed,
lol no you don’t stop kidding yourself
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
12:26 pm
“unemployed and the middle class”…..Great job Obama 8.6%!
MarkV
December 21st, 2011
12:26 pm
Kyle Wingfield @12:18 pm
This fight in Congress being the most visible item in the news, and you do not see the connection?
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
12:27 pm
MarkV…..The connection between problems and a “leader and Chief” that has no idea what he is doing? Yep, I SEE IT!
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
12:32 pm
Right now the GOP is at the negotiating table in Washington…..GUESS WHAT!!!! There are NO Democrats there….I wonder why?
Kyle Wingfield
December 21st, 2011
12:32 pm
MarkV: The story talks about a trend over two months, not a week. To the degree that this fight reflects longer-term behavior and impressions, you could be right. Or not. Look at the actual questions asked…far too broad to attribute to anything in particular.
See here for another, more likely explanation.
JDW
December 21st, 2011
12:44 pm
@MarkV…” think this argument about uncertainty as the most important thing is at least very exaggerated if it means, as the conservatives argue, uncertainty of taxes, regulations etc. ”
I don’t mean so much the uncertainty of taxes, regulations etc… so much as I mean uncertainty of direction. Take the Health Care Reform act. On of my clients is very large provider of technology and services to the Health Care market. I do some high level events where we flesh out challenges and solutions to those challenges. In that market today the problem is not the act itself. Some like it some don’t but if you told them today that was the direction everything would be ok and they would get down to business.
Unfortunately, the issue is we have to spend time fighting over the direction and that does cause issues. They can’t go full speed ahead as if the law was the law they have to wait to see how the matter is finally resolved.
JDW
December 21st, 2011
12:46 pm
@UGA 1999…”However I do look at the system and try to think of ways it could be fixed, rather than just saying “tax the rich, they can afford it!””
Then you ought to stop looking at the turnips…they don’t have any blood. Seems to me if you want to tax someone you ought to start with those that can afford it. Has a tendancy to work better that way.
td
December 21st, 2011
12:49 pm
JDW, MarkV, gm and other libs
I have been reading your post for several days now and there is a couple central themes. Tax the rich and whatever the Republicans are doing is wrong. Every Time a conservative puts an idea on the table then you go to town on telling us all how bad the plan is.
How about giving us some solutions. How do we get out of debt (knowing that if you taxed the top 1% 100% of there income it will not solve the problem)? What programs do we cut and by how much? What programs do we invest in and by how much? How do we create demand in the private market?
We shall all be waiting on these plans to see if we can support them or not but please be very specific in your proposals.
Fresh Prince of Belarus
December 21st, 2011
12:58 pm
td
December 21st, 2011
12:49 pm
JDW, MarkV, gm and other libs
Tax the rich and whatever the Republicans are doing is wrong.
o rly?
JDW
December 21st, 2011
1:05 pm
@TD…”How do we get out of debt (knowing that if you taxed the top 1% 100% of there income it will not solve the problem)? What programs do we cut and by how much? What programs do we invest in and by how much? How do we create demand in the private market? ”
The best blueprint around at the moment is the Simpson Bowles proposal. If you take that direction it would be a fine choice.
As for creating demand in the private market…that is not the governments job. It is their job to create an environment conducive to a growing economy…reducing taxes to 1940’s levels high driving spending higher doesn’t get it done. If you go back to the mid 90’s that was the best example of a good environment.
Now before you seize on that and say well that was the Republican Congress…NO IT WAS NOT. The key issues that put us on the right path were the proper levels of taxation…passed in 1993 with Democratic majorities in both houses and PAYGO…which was implemented in 1990, extended twice by Clinton and allowed to expire by Duhbya.
If those two items had remained in place we would not be having this discussion today.
MarkV
December 21st, 2011
1:08 pm
td @12:49 pm
I could write the same and ask the same questions about the conservatives.
MarkV
December 21st, 2011
1:10 pm
JDW @12:44 pm
That is a very specific area, which in my opinion does not apply to the economy as a whole.
Sorry, have to go, will be back sometime later.
td
December 21st, 2011
1:23 pm
JDW
December 21st, 2011
1:05 pm
Sorry but going back to the taxing levels of 1992 will not balance the budget for the next 30 years. You are going to have to do some serious cutting as well. What would you cut?
JDW
December 21st, 2011
1:26 pm
@MarkV…”That is a very specific area, which in my opinion does not apply to the economy as a whole.”
That is a specific example but I think it is applicable to the broader economy. I think our biggest problem is lack of a concrete direction in most cases. It is certainly not over regulation or over taxation.
Do we need to regulatory review and streamlining…sure it would help in specific areas but it is not the panacea some like to think that it is. Fact is we are the worlds largest economy and rated #4 by Doing Business.
The Republicans would do well to remember that and stop creating turmoil as an election strategy.
JDW
December 21st, 2011
1:28 pm
@TD…”What would you cut?”
Do I have to spoon feed you…just look at Simpson Bowles…here
http://crfb.org/sites/default/files/Analyzing_the_Presidents_New_Budget_Framework.pdf
Of the options Simpson Bowles is #1, the Presidents Framework #2 (though it does not go far enough), and the House Republicans are a non-starter (hint look at the tax line)
HDB
December 21st, 2011
1:29 pm
td
December 21st, 2011
12:49 pm
Here’s what I’ve been saying for months:
1) FREEZE government spending for two years so that a complete cost-benefit analysis can be run on the government. Note where the redundancies are and eliminate them…..including defense
2) Tie unemployment/job re-training/education together
3) Tax increase back to the Clinton rates
4) Rework the tax code
5) Eliminate corporate loopholes
That’s the start of balancing the budget…and eliminating the national debt!!
gm
December 21st, 2011
1:49 pm
UGA 1999
Thanks Obama
unemployement in Ks, 4%, Mn 3%, Ut 5%, Co 7%
td
December 21st, 2011
1:55 pm
HDB
December 21st, 2011
1:29 pm
At least you have some ideas and just do not bash others ideas. Thank you.
td
December 21st, 2011
2:00 pm
JDW
December 21st, 2011
1:28 pm
Conservatives have been fooled (or lied too) twice in the past 30 years. Both times they raised taxes (probably cost the first Bush re election) on the promise of cutting spending in the out years. I am totally with the Tea party in no tax increases until we see actual spending cuts first and then we can talk about tax increases. BTW: The argument is moot on tax increases because the Bush (now Obama) tax cuts will expire at the end of next year so lets get started with the spending cuts.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
2:04 pm
Here’s a modest proposal: Cut the payroll tax and allow folks to invest the savings. We’ll call it a “Bush Private Retirement Account”.
Jom Tefferson
December 21st, 2011
5:29 pm
The YEAR tax will save the average family less than $800 ! (that’s $133 for the two month extension for those math challeneged) And while this is a substantial amount for struggling families,it will also destroy social secuirty even more rapidly, and I’m sure most of the families that need the tax holiday (it’s not a cut unless it’s permanent) will need all the social security they can get when they retire.
Claudeius !st
December 21st, 2011
5:33 pm
Really ridiculous that neither party mentions a flat tax, so everyone pays and has a stake in the game. When 47% pay ZERO FEDERAL income tax, and many not only don’t pay anything but get a check from the government on top of it, yet enjoy all the benefits of living in this country, they will always say tax others so they get a FREE ride.
Marge Thatcher
December 21st, 2011
5:37 pm
“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money. ”
― Margaret Thatcher
But go ahead and keep saying “tax the rich” eventually the “rich” will include you.
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
6:28 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward) December 21st, 2011 8:50 am
*******************************************************************************************
HEADLINE: House GOP has manuevered itself into a dead end!
HEADLINE: Angry White Men Thought They Were Smarter Than Obama!
HEADLINE: God Don’t Like Ugly!
HEADLINE: You Reap What You Sow.
HEADLINE: Obama Approval Rating is 50% GOP 30%
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
6:31 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward) December 21st, 2011 2:04 pm
***************************************************
House GOP has manuevered itself into a dead end!
Republicans and their supporters thought they were smarter than Obama!
How is that working out?
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha!
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
6:34 pm
@ Kyle – As I said at the outset, no one in this kerfuffle comes out looking good.
*******************************************************************************
Looks like the REPUBLICANS ARE LOOKING WORSE!
Obama’s approval rating is 50% GOP 30%
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
6:39 pm
The Party of Mean (Republicans) is GETTING THEIR comeuppance!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
What goes around comes around.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
6:53 pm
“Republicans and their supporters thought they were smarter than Obama!”
——————
I guess it takes real smarts to keep unemployment at 9% for two years, run up $1.5 trillion deficits every year, and put record numbers of folks into poverty.
Smart.
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
7:03 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward) December 21st, 2011 6:53 pm
*******************************************************
Anyone with any intelligence realizes that Obama inherited problems from the previous president.
Obviously, it has not HURT his approval rating 50% – GOP 30%.
Yo boys in the GOP AIN’T THAT SMART EITHER – House GOP has manuevered itself into a dead end!
Hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
7:32 pm
ANGRY WHITE MEN are not as smart as they think they are! They outsmarted THEMSELVES.
House GOP has manuevered itself into a dead end!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Obama’s approval rating 50% GOP 30%!
Who is the Obozo NOW?
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
7:34 pm
ANGRY WHITE MEN hate Obama MORE THAN THEY LOVE AMERICA!
How is that working out?
Hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
7:43 pm
The Wall Street Journal editorial board understand that the House GOP is acting SUICIDAL, noting that the squabble with Senate Republicans has turned into a “CIRCULAR FIRING SQUAD” and that “the political rout will only GET WORSE” unless REPUBLICANS CONCEDE the standoff with President Obama.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
7:49 pm
House GOP has manuevered itself into a dead end!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
At this stage, Republicans would do best to cut their losses and find a way to extend the payroll holiday quickly.
“It is harming the Republican Party,” Senator John McCain of Arizona said in an interview on CNN. “It is harming the view, if it’s possible anymore, of the American people about Congress.
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
7:53 pm
REPUBLICANS
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Obama WINNING!
Who is the OBOZO NOW?
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
7:54 pm
That Harvard diploma is PAYING OFF!
Hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
8:05 pm
Republicans are people who would SINK the ship to DROWN THE CAPTAIN!
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
8:09 pm
Republicans raise taxes on 160,000,000 middle class americans!
They are sinking the ship and taking the CAPTAIN DOWN WITH IT!
Shame on them.
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
8:11 pm
The Republicans have taken this TOO FAR!
John Boehner is a one term speaker thanks to Mitch McConnell.
Fri'chickenesha
December 21st, 2011
8:11 pm
“I don’t understand how Senate Republicans…could have been so far out of step with House Republicans”
Me neither. Well yeah maybe that numbnuts Chambliss, but I don’t know what our other senator was thinking. We don’t need payroll tax cuts to defund the SS trust fund, which is already bankrupt. Americans need to wake up and understand they have to pay for those benefits they hope to receive some day.
Bullet County
December 21st, 2011
8:34 pm
Hypocrite thy name is Speaker of the House;
Isaiah 5:13-15
13Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge: and their honourable men are famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst.
14Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
15And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled:
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
9:42 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward) December 21st, 2011 9:57 am – There are two million fewer jobs today than when Obozo took office. What he’s doing is failing.
********************************************************************
It’s time to stop all of the b*llsh*t about Obama!.
The Republicans are NO BETTER! The ANGRY WHITE MEN thought they had all the ANSWERS!
How is that working out for ya?
House GOP has manuevered itself into a dead end! John Boenher and the boys thought they could outsmart Obama.
That Harvard diploma has PAID OFF.
Who is the Obozo now?
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha:)
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
9:45 pm
ANGRY WHITE MEN ou tfoxed by the COOL CALM Obama!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
9:49 pm
Lil Barry Bailout WHERE YOU AT?
Don’t hide now!
Looks like Obozo is giving the Republicans their comeuppance!
You can fool some of the people some of the time but sooner or later you are the FOOL!
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
9:53 pm
@Kyle Wingfield December 21st, 2011 11:15 am – JDW @ 11:00: I guess I need to expand on the point a bit:
**********************************************
The CONSERVATIVES are doing a lot of esplaining!
No need to EXPAND John Boenher and the boys have already done ENUFF espanding for ya!
Lets call it like it is. REPUBLICANS SC*WED UP!
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
9:58 pm
@Fri’chickenesha December 21st, 2011 8:11 pm – I don’t know what our other senator was thinking.
***************************************************************
They were hoping you and I WERE NOT THINKING about what IDIOTS they are.
They have bamboozled the american people with their STUPIDITY!
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
10:00 pm
WHERE ARE ALL OF THE OBAMA HATERS?
YOUR SILENCE IS DEAFENING!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
10:04 pm
John Boenher FUMBLED THE BALL!
It was a TAX CUT…..wasn’t that what the REPUBLICANS ARE FOR?
DUMMIES DUMMIES DUMMIES
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
10:15 pm
@Kyle Wingfield – I think most Americans will join me in asking that the same, big, fat lump of coal be dumped in all their stockings.
*******************************************************************
The republicans gave the democrats an early christmas present.
Looks like the republicans got the big, fat lump of coal dumped in their stockings.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
10:16 pm
GOOD NIGHT REPUBLICANS. SLEEP TIGHT DON’T LET THE BED BUGS BITE!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Taft Punk
December 21st, 2011
11:14 pm
Claudeius !st
December 21st, 2011
5:33 pm
Really ridiculous that neither party mentions a flat tax,
Because it’s a regressive idea that taxes wealthy people less than middle income earners?
Great idea, chief.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 22nd, 2011
7:07 am
Republicans have passed the payroll tax for a full year and are keeping the House open so the conferees can hammer out a compromise on the bill. Sadly, they have no one to compromise with since the Democrat Senate skipped town.
Where are the Democrats?
Observer
December 22nd, 2011
8:26 am
I don’t usually get involved in politics but after 4 years of hoping that Obama and the Democrats could fix the economic problems that the last Republican President ( Bush) and the Democratic Senate and Democratic House created (The Great Recession 2007-2011), I have totally changed my mind. I don’t think 4 more years of the same will do any more than provide time for the current Administration to “try this” and “try that? ENOUGH of the American people being experimental mice.
This new payroll tax-FICA Fiasco-Warren Buffet Rule-whatever you want to call it is VERY dangerous and needs to be thought through very thoroughly.
I don’t have a problem with creating a new tax to pass on to the 500 CEOs in the Fortune 500 that currently earn 3 to 5 million dollars a year. However, what I see the Republican House struggling with is just how this will ALSO affect the “entrepreneurial class” (20 million small businesses in America that employ 60 million-600 million workers nationwide. To me, this is the class that made America the most prosperous county in the history of mankind. I shudder to think what the payroll tax will tell them. worked 70-80 hour weeks to get ahead and provide a better life for their families. Work 80 hours a week for five-ten years for your family so you can give your profits to strangers who don’t?
What happens if this new payroll tax goes through and the Federal Government takes another 20% from this class? More if you factor in Health Care and a few other reforms they have already been forced to pay for?
It appears to me that the Democrats in Washington are scrambling to save their jobs while the Republicans are scrambling to save America.
In 2008 this southern Democrat voted to give Obama a chance. In 2012 I’m voting for Newt Gingrich (Republican). I only wish Zell Miller (Democrat) would be his running mate.
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 22nd, 2011
9:40 am
@Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward) December 22nd, 2011 7:07 am – Republicans have passed the payroll tax for a full year and are keeping the House open so the conferees can hammer out a compromise on the bill. Sadly, they have no one to compromise with since the Democrat Senate skipped town.
Where are the Democrats?
********************************************
They are all CELEBRATING the UPCOMING 2012 ELECTIONS with Obama!
Republicans WHERE YOU AT? (Over a cliff?)
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 22nd, 2011
9:46 am
@Observer December 22nd, 2011 8:26 am – In 2008 this southern Democrat voted to give Obama a chance. In 2012 I’m voting for Newt Gingrich (Republican). I only wish Zell Miller (Democrat) would be his running mate.
***********************************************************
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
NEWT IS A JOKE AND HIS CAMPAIGN IS OVER!
Nice try….. try again SOUTHERN DEMOCRAT! Nothing beats a FAILURE BUT A TRY!
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 22nd, 2011
9:52 am
@Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward) December 22nd, 2011 7:07 am
Sorry Lil Biddy, the REPUBLICANS ARE A DAY LATE AND A DOLLAR SHORT.
Stick a fork in them because THEY ARE DONE!
YOU CAN’T PUT THE SH*T BACK INTO THE HORSE!
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 22nd, 2011
9:54 am
@@Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward) December 22nd, 2011 7:07 am
The Republicans need to know that IF YOU ARE RIDING A HORSE AND IT DIES…………………
GET THE @#@# OFF!
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 22nd, 2011
9:57 am
@@Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward) December 22nd, 2011 7:07 am
Looks like OBOZO is going to have a MERRY MERRY CHIRSTMAS thanks to the ANGRY WHITE MEN!
I hope you do too, LIL BIDDY, IDDY BIDDY!
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 22nd, 2011
10:01 am
@Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward) December 22nd, 2011 7:07 am
ANGRY WHITE MEN do not know when to HOLD THEM, FOLD THEM OR JUST WALK AWAY!
Obozo don’t look to dumb to me this morning! Looks like he got some COMPETITION (Repubs).
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 22nd, 2011
10:07 am
@Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward) December 22nd, 2011 7:07 am
***************************************************************************
The adventures of the REPUBLICANS as THEY ascend, descend and reascend the downspout of a gutter system!
The itsy bitsy spider crawled up the water spout.
Down came the rain, and washed the spider out.
Out came the sun, and dried up all the rain,
and the itsy bitsy spider went up the spout again.
ONE MORE TIME………….
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 22nd, 2011
10:09 am
@Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward) December 22nd, 2011 7:07 am
The Republicans are holding a press conference………eating crow!
I say @#@# THE ANGRY WHITE MEN REPUBLICANS!
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 22nd, 2011
10:11 am
DEMOCRATS are going to WIPE that SMIRK OFF OF ERIC CANTOR’S UGLY MUG!
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 22nd, 2011
10:12 am
HEADLINE:
ANGRY WHITE MEN OUTSMARTED BY COOL CALM BLACK MAN
Shazam
December 22nd, 2011
11:16 am
What Goes Around Comes Around:
I’m glad that I will be the one that cancels out your vote!
A Newt Gingrich, Zell Miller ticket won’t happen but it would create more prosperity in a year than the current adminstration has done in FOUR.
Shazam
December 22nd, 2011
11:20 am
What Goes Around Comes Around: You certainly prove that!
Get off the internet and work dude. Stop depending on others to support your and yours. Ask not what your country can do for you, but instead what you can do for your country.
Shazam
December 22nd, 2011
11:27 am
What Goes Around Comes Around:
Hope the silent majority muzzles you and your anything but silent minorty come 2012! Don’t underestimate the Americans that vote and don’t blog and Twitter!
Shazam
December 22nd, 2011
11:31 am
What Goes Around Comes Around:
Democrats are politicing to save their jobs
Republicans are politicing to save our Country.
Your free ride is over! Get a job, pay your taxes and like it!
Shazam
December 22nd, 2011
11:34 am
What Goes Around Comes Around:
Obviously you are not a small business owner.
Shazam
December 22nd, 2011
11:38 am
What Goes Around Comes Around:
You appear to be the one that is ANGRY here. hahahahahhaahhaahhahaha
gm
December 22nd, 2011
12:07 pm
Shazam
When idiots like you lose your job, house, and can not find work, you will feel most American pain, untll then you are just another selfish, sicko who have no clue of what going on, keep getting brain washed by high school drop out millionaire rush limbaugh.
Fresh Prince of Belfast
December 22nd, 2011
12:49 pm
Shazam
December 22nd, 2011
11:31 am
What Goes Around Comes Around:
Democrats are politicing to save their jobs
Republicans are politicing to save our Country.
Your free ride is over! Get a job, pay your taxes and like it!
Boring