The stupid payroll-tax fight isn’t going to benefit anyone
No one is completely in the right in the Washington-wide temper tantrum over extending the payroll-tax holiday. I don’t understand how Senate Republicans — who voted in large numbers for a two-month extension of the holiday — could have been so far out of step with House Republicans who insist on the year-long extension they’ve already passed.
That said, I have a hard time understanding the sudden conventional wisdom that public opinion about the situation will favor:
a) Senate Democrats, who want to enact a two-month extension offset by a tax on middle-class mortgagees and then spend even more time early next year arguing about the very same issue rather than moving on to other issues — rather than enacting a one-year extension offset by the exact same tax on middle-class mortgagees as well as a reduction in welfare and entitlement benefits for wealthy Americans and illegal immigrants, a pay freeze for federal workers, the auctioning of some wireless spectrum, and a few smaller items;
and/or
b) President Obama, who has repeatedly said he wants a full-year extension of the payroll-tax holiday but who, rather than castigating the Senate for passing only a two-month extension, instead is being nakedly partisan in castigating the House for sticking to its year-long extension.
Other than the length of the extension, there is very little substantive difference between the two bills except for the offsets, which is natural given that a year-long extension requires more offsets than a two-month extension. And there is very little in the House’s list of offsets that could be considered widely controversial.
And then there’s the fact that neutral experts say a two-month extension would be a nightmare for smaller firms to implement.
We’re long since past debating the actual merits of extending the tax holiday. As I said at the outset, no one in this kerfuffle comes out looking good. But does it really make sense to believe that the group that passed a short-term, unworkable bill, and the president who supported that about-face, are going to benefit from it, at the expense of the group that passed the longer-term, more practical bill? Obama and the Democrats made that bet during the debt-ceiling debate last summer. Instead, all they did was see their public approval sink alongside that of the Republicans.
I think most Americans will join me in asking that the same, big, fat lump of coal be dumped in all their stockings.
– By Kyle Wingfield
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
234 comments Add your comment
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
12:04 pm
UGA, your debt numbers are off. According to the Treasury Department, the national debt, including everything, went up $4.9 trillion in our President Bush’s eight years, and $4.6 trillion in two-plus years of the Obozo regime.
MarkV
December 21st, 2011
12:09 pm
Kyle Wingfield @11:29 am
You have not seen polls showing Obama’s increased approval? Polls showing that the Republicans are losing approval? I can spend the time finding the links if you insist, but I think it would be a waste of time.
I have hard time believing what you are arguing. People in general considering the details of what is going on? Come on. They see Obama and the Democrats trying to get them tax break and other benefits, and the Republicans blocking it. Just as they have only seen the economy being in bad shape and blaming Obama, without considering what he has had to overcome.
Fresh Prince of Belfast
December 21st, 2011
12:13 pm
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
12:03 pm
JDW….47% of Americans pay no income tax because our tax laws are flawed!
Good idea, tax the poor. A winning strategy devised by a mental giant.
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
12:14 pm
Fresh…..tax the poor….great idea. Tax those who get the most from our system. Great idea.
MarkV
December 21st, 2011
12:14 pm
Kyle Wingfield @11:29 am
http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/20/politics/behind-obama-polls/index.html
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
12:16 pm
MarkV…great job, Quote a CNN poll, they are not biased at all!!! ha. You guys are so predictable.
Kyle Wingfield
December 21st, 2011
12:18 pm
MarkV @ 12:14: There’s nothing specifically about the payroll-tax debate in that poll or story. That’s what I’m asking about.
Fresh Prince of Belfast
December 21st, 2011
12:19 pm
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
12:16 pm
MarkV…great job, Quote a CNN poll, they are not biased at all!!! ha. You guys are so predictable.
^^^^ Irony right here, y’all ^^^^
JDW
December 21st, 2011
12:20 pm
@UGA 1999…”JDW….47% of Americans pay no income tax because our tax laws are flawed!”
And I suppose you spend your days trying to squeeze blood out of turnips rather than asking yourself what is wrong with that process…
JDW
December 21st, 2011
12:23 pm
@UGA 1999…”Tax those who get the most from our system. Great idea.”
And I guess you think that is the guy washing dishes down at the local diner rather than the Wall Street Banker about to get $1 million in bonus…
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
12:23 pm
JDW….”blood from turnips”? Nope, never.
However I do look at the system and try to think of ways it could be fixed, rather than just saying “tax the rich, they can afford it!”
MarkV
December 21st, 2011
12:24 pm
JDW @11:34 am: “I think that by far the most important thing holding the economy back is this environment of uncertainty and turmoil..”
I think this argument about uncertainty as the most important thing is at least very exaggerated if it means, as the conservatives argue, uncertainty of taxes, regulations etc. The only “uncertainty” that is really important is the uncertainty of demand. As we have seen recently, an increase in demand immediately results in hiring. This is where the action of the Republicans is damaging the economy – by blocking people who would spend the money, the unemployed and the middle class, from getting a break.
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
12:25 pm
MarkV…..Question: Do you own a business?
Fresh Prince of Belfast
December 21st, 2011
12:26 pm
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
12:23 pm
However I do look at the system and try to think of ways it could be fixed,
lol no you don’t stop kidding yourself
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
12:26 pm
“unemployed and the middle class”…..Great job Obama 8.6%!
MarkV
December 21st, 2011
12:26 pm
Kyle Wingfield @12:18 pm
This fight in Congress being the most visible item in the news, and you do not see the connection?
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
12:27 pm
MarkV…..The connection between problems and a “leader and Chief” that has no idea what he is doing? Yep, I SEE IT!
UGA 1999
December 21st, 2011
12:32 pm
Right now the GOP is at the negotiating table in Washington…..GUESS WHAT!!!! There are NO Democrats there….I wonder why?
Kyle Wingfield
December 21st, 2011
12:32 pm
MarkV: The story talks about a trend over two months, not a week. To the degree that this fight reflects longer-term behavior and impressions, you could be right. Or not. Look at the actual questions asked…far too broad to attribute to anything in particular.
See here for another, more likely explanation.
JDW
December 21st, 2011
12:44 pm
@MarkV…” think this argument about uncertainty as the most important thing is at least very exaggerated if it means, as the conservatives argue, uncertainty of taxes, regulations etc. ”
I don’t mean so much the uncertainty of taxes, regulations etc… so much as I mean uncertainty of direction. Take the Health Care Reform act. On of my clients is very large provider of technology and services to the Health Care market. I do some high level events where we flesh out challenges and solutions to those challenges. In that market today the problem is not the act itself. Some like it some don’t but if you told them today that was the direction everything would be ok and they would get down to business.
Unfortunately, the issue is we have to spend time fighting over the direction and that does cause issues. They can’t go full speed ahead as if the law was the law they have to wait to see how the matter is finally resolved.
JDW
December 21st, 2011
12:46 pm
@UGA 1999…”However I do look at the system and try to think of ways it could be fixed, rather than just saying “tax the rich, they can afford it!””
Then you ought to stop looking at the turnips…they don’t have any blood. Seems to me if you want to tax someone you ought to start with those that can afford it. Has a tendancy to work better that way.
td
December 21st, 2011
12:49 pm
JDW, MarkV, gm and other libs
I have been reading your post for several days now and there is a couple central themes. Tax the rich and whatever the Republicans are doing is wrong. Every Time a conservative puts an idea on the table then you go to town on telling us all how bad the plan is.
How about giving us some solutions. How do we get out of debt (knowing that if you taxed the top 1% 100% of there income it will not solve the problem)? What programs do we cut and by how much? What programs do we invest in and by how much? How do we create demand in the private market?
We shall all be waiting on these plans to see if we can support them or not but please be very specific in your proposals.
Fresh Prince of Belarus
December 21st, 2011
12:58 pm
td
December 21st, 2011
12:49 pm
JDW, MarkV, gm and other libs
Tax the rich and whatever the Republicans are doing is wrong.
o rly?
JDW
December 21st, 2011
1:05 pm
@TD…”How do we get out of debt (knowing that if you taxed the top 1% 100% of there income it will not solve the problem)? What programs do we cut and by how much? What programs do we invest in and by how much? How do we create demand in the private market? ”
The best blueprint around at the moment is the Simpson Bowles proposal. If you take that direction it would be a fine choice.
As for creating demand in the private market…that is not the governments job. It is their job to create an environment conducive to a growing economy…reducing taxes to 1940’s levels high driving spending higher doesn’t get it done. If you go back to the mid 90’s that was the best example of a good environment.
Now before you seize on that and say well that was the Republican Congress…NO IT WAS NOT. The key issues that put us on the right path were the proper levels of taxation…passed in 1993 with Democratic majorities in both houses and PAYGO…which was implemented in 1990, extended twice by Clinton and allowed to expire by Duhbya.
If those two items had remained in place we would not be having this discussion today.
MarkV
December 21st, 2011
1:08 pm
td @12:49 pm
I could write the same and ask the same questions about the conservatives.
MarkV
December 21st, 2011
1:10 pm
JDW @12:44 pm
That is a very specific area, which in my opinion does not apply to the economy as a whole.
Sorry, have to go, will be back sometime later.
td
December 21st, 2011
1:23 pm
JDW
December 21st, 2011
1:05 pm
Sorry but going back to the taxing levels of 1992 will not balance the budget for the next 30 years. You are going to have to do some serious cutting as well. What would you cut?
JDW
December 21st, 2011
1:26 pm
@MarkV…”That is a very specific area, which in my opinion does not apply to the economy as a whole.”
That is a specific example but I think it is applicable to the broader economy. I think our biggest problem is lack of a concrete direction in most cases. It is certainly not over regulation or over taxation.
Do we need to regulatory review and streamlining…sure it would help in specific areas but it is not the panacea some like to think that it is. Fact is we are the worlds largest economy and rated #4 by Doing Business.
The Republicans would do well to remember that and stop creating turmoil as an election strategy.
JDW
December 21st, 2011
1:28 pm
@TD…”What would you cut?”
Do I have to spoon feed you…just look at Simpson Bowles…here
http://crfb.org/sites/default/files/Analyzing_the_Presidents_New_Budget_Framework.pdf
Of the options Simpson Bowles is #1, the Presidents Framework #2 (though it does not go far enough), and the House Republicans are a non-starter (hint look at the tax line)
HDB
December 21st, 2011
1:29 pm
td
December 21st, 2011
12:49 pm
Here’s what I’ve been saying for months:
1) FREEZE government spending for two years so that a complete cost-benefit analysis can be run on the government. Note where the redundancies are and eliminate them…..including defense
2) Tie unemployment/job re-training/education together
3) Tax increase back to the Clinton rates
4) Rework the tax code
5) Eliminate corporate loopholes
That’s the start of balancing the budget…and eliminating the national debt!!
gm
December 21st, 2011
1:49 pm
UGA 1999
Thanks Obama
unemployement in Ks, 4%, Mn 3%, Ut 5%, Co 7%
td
December 21st, 2011
1:55 pm
HDB
December 21st, 2011
1:29 pm
At least you have some ideas and just do not bash others ideas. Thank you.
td
December 21st, 2011
2:00 pm
JDW
December 21st, 2011
1:28 pm
Conservatives have been fooled (or lied too) twice in the past 30 years. Both times they raised taxes (probably cost the first Bush re election) on the promise of cutting spending in the out years. I am totally with the Tea party in no tax increases until we see actual spending cuts first and then we can talk about tax increases. BTW: The argument is moot on tax increases because the Bush (now Obama) tax cuts will expire at the end of next year so lets get started with the spending cuts.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
2:04 pm
Here’s a modest proposal: Cut the payroll tax and allow folks to invest the savings. We’ll call it a “Bush Private Retirement Account”.
Jom Tefferson
December 21st, 2011
5:29 pm
The YEAR tax will save the average family less than $800 ! (that’s $133 for the two month extension for those math challeneged) And while this is a substantial amount for struggling families,it will also destroy social secuirty even more rapidly, and I’m sure most of the families that need the tax holiday (it’s not a cut unless it’s permanent) will need all the social security they can get when they retire.
Claudeius !st
December 21st, 2011
5:33 pm
Really ridiculous that neither party mentions a flat tax, so everyone pays and has a stake in the game. When 47% pay ZERO FEDERAL income tax, and many not only don’t pay anything but get a check from the government on top of it, yet enjoy all the benefits of living in this country, they will always say tax others so they get a FREE ride.
Marge Thatcher
December 21st, 2011
5:37 pm
“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money. ”
― Margaret Thatcher
But go ahead and keep saying “tax the rich” eventually the “rich” will include you.
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
6:28 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward) December 21st, 2011 8:50 am
*******************************************************************************************
HEADLINE: House GOP has manuevered itself into a dead end!
HEADLINE: Angry White Men Thought They Were Smarter Than Obama!
HEADLINE: God Don’t Like Ugly!
HEADLINE: You Reap What You Sow.
HEADLINE: Obama Approval Rating is 50% GOP 30%
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
6:31 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward) December 21st, 2011 2:04 pm
***************************************************
House GOP has manuevered itself into a dead end!
Republicans and their supporters thought they were smarter than Obama!
How is that working out?
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha!
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
6:34 pm
@ Kyle – As I said at the outset, no one in this kerfuffle comes out looking good.
*******************************************************************************
Looks like the REPUBLICANS ARE LOOKING WORSE!
Obama’s approval rating is 50% GOP 30%
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
6:39 pm
The Party of Mean (Republicans) is GETTING THEIR comeuppance!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
What goes around comes around.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 21st, 2011
6:53 pm
“Republicans and their supporters thought they were smarter than Obama!”
——————
I guess it takes real smarts to keep unemployment at 9% for two years, run up $1.5 trillion deficits every year, and put record numbers of folks into poverty.
Smart.
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
7:03 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward) December 21st, 2011 6:53 pm
*******************************************************
Anyone with any intelligence realizes that Obama inherited problems from the previous president.
Obviously, it has not HURT his approval rating 50% – GOP 30%.
Yo boys in the GOP AIN’T THAT SMART EITHER – House GOP has manuevered itself into a dead end!
Hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
7:32 pm
ANGRY WHITE MEN are not as smart as they think they are! They outsmarted THEMSELVES.
House GOP has manuevered itself into a dead end!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Obama’s approval rating 50% GOP 30%!
Who is the Obozo NOW?
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
7:34 pm
ANGRY WHITE MEN hate Obama MORE THAN THEY LOVE AMERICA!
How is that working out?
Hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
7:43 pm
The Wall Street Journal editorial board understand that the House GOP is acting SUICIDAL, noting that the squabble with Senate Republicans has turned into a “CIRCULAR FIRING SQUAD” and that “the political rout will only GET WORSE” unless REPUBLICANS CONCEDE the standoff with President Obama.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
7:49 pm
House GOP has manuevered itself into a dead end!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
At this stage, Republicans would do best to cut their losses and find a way to extend the payroll holiday quickly.
“It is harming the Republican Party,” Senator John McCain of Arizona said in an interview on CNN. “It is harming the view, if it’s possible anymore, of the American people about Congress.
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
7:53 pm
REPUBLICANS
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Obama WINNING!
Who is the OBOZO NOW?
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
7:54 pm
That Harvard diploma is PAYING OFF!
Hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 21st, 2011
8:05 pm
Republicans are people who would SINK the ship to DROWN THE CAPTAIN!