Finally, a Republican who’s willing to defend capitalism (but unwilling to run for president)
Those who have been waiting for one of the Republican presidential candidates to offer a full-throated defense of free-market capitalism — only to see Newt Gingrich sniping at Mitt Romney’s record at Bain Capital, and Romney returning fire about Gingrich being a “very wealthy man” given his line of credit at Tiffany and Co. — may have to settle for an excellent op-ed from a non-candidate: Jeb Bush. (Or is he?)
Writing in the Wall Street Journal today, Bush riffs on the phrase coined by another Republican who flirted with a run at the White House next year, Rep. Paul Ryan: “the right to rise.”
Bush writes:
We have to make it easier for people to do the things that allow them to rise. We have to let them compete. We need to let people fight for business. We need to let people take risks. We need to let people fail. We need to let people suffer the consequences of bad decisions. And we need to let people enjoy the fruits of good decisions, even good luck.
That is what economic freedom looks like. Freedom to succeed as well as to fail, freedom to do something or nothing. People understand this. Freedom of speech, for example, means that we put up with a lot of verbal and visual garbage in order to make sure that individuals have the right to say what needs to be said, even when it is inconvenient or unpopular. We forgive the sacrifices of free speech because we value its blessings.
But when it comes to economic freedom, we are less forgiving of the cycles of growth and loss, of trial and error, and of failure and success that are part of the realities of the marketplace and life itself.
This is the anti-bailout, anti-cronyism, anti-overregulation, anti-”do something” mantra we need to hear from the Republican alternative to Barack Obama next year. (To those who note the irony of Jeb Bush opposing the kinds of bailouts his brother implemented as president: I didn’t miss it; I’d only point out that, as many Republicans have noted ruefully over the years, Jeb is not George.)
Finally, Bush demonstrates exactly how someone in the GOP field needs to frame the debate:
In short, we must choose between the straight line promised by the statists and the jagged line of economic freedom. The straight line of gradual and controlled growth is what the statists promise but can never deliver. The jagged line offers no guarantees but has a powerful record of delivering the most prosperity and the most opportunity to the most people. We cannot possibly know in advance what freedom promises for 312 million individuals. But unless we are willing to explore the jagged line of freedom, we will be stuck with the straight line. And the straight line, it turns out, is a flat line.
ADDED: I meant, then forgot, to note that Ron Paul of course makes similar arguments. If nothing else, I wish his arguments would prod one of the candidates riding higher in the polls to follow suit.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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187 comments Add your comment
ByteMe
December 19th, 2011
11:13 am
In short, we must choose between the straight line promised by the statists and the jagged line of economic freedom.
Ah, the binary world. 1 or 0. On or off. Left or right. Liberal or Conservative.
Simple platitudes for simple people.
Too bad the world got more complicated than that years ago.
PMC
December 19th, 2011
11:20 am
How are you supposed to get anti cronyism out of guys who have done nothing else of merit in thier lives other than politics?
All the anti establishment rehetoric has given 2 career politicians as front runners.
xdog
December 19th, 2011
11:24 am
Ron’s leading in Iowa, so it’s hard to know who’s riding higher.
Aquagirl
December 19th, 2011
11:29 am
I’m all for Jeb’s idea—when are Tom Graves and Chip Rogers going to pay that $2.2 million back? Or does “freedom to fail” mean “free to fail, because taxpayers will bail you out?”
There’s a reason you don’t see other Republicans running with this idea, Kyle. They think it sucks. They don’t want to explore that jagged line, they want to stick others with the consequences of their failures while they continue living high on the hog.
redneckbluedog
December 19th, 2011
11:41 am
Republicans had the President in a corner over the Keystone pipeline…but thanks to the Tea Party, the BIG STORY now is the infighting between Senate and House Republicans….FIGHT ON, my conservative squidbillies…You just gave the President an out..:-)….
Here we go again
December 19th, 2011
11:41 am
You nailed it, ByteMe.
Kyle, you and Jeb need to come back to reality. “Allowing people to rise” so they can “enjoy the fruits of good decisions?!!” unfortunately is NOT the result of a “do nothing” strategy. The problem isn’t that the people who make good decisions aren’t allowed to rise; the problem is that the people who make entirely selfish, greedy decisions — and break the law in the process — rarely ever actually “fall.”
Your monolithic party is as conservative as ever, and its stubborn refusal to compromise has GREATLY succeeded in pushing both the President and the dialogue of the entire country far to the right — and you say that capitalism needs a stronger defense??? I think all you lovers-of-the-job-creators need to grow out of adolescence and read a book NOT by Ayn Rand. Hell, read Ronald Reagan — you guys would brand him as a socialist today.
redneckbluedog
December 19th, 2011
11:43 am
And to my environmentalist friends (not that I expect a large audience on this blog)….They wouldn’t be building the pipeline in the first place if we weren’t running out of oil…..
Let Exxon and the Kochs have their pipeline…and then we can tax the living heck out of it by ending subsidies and letting the Bush tax cuts expire..:-)….
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
11:44 am
WOW, that is a great definition. I am not sure America is ready for another Bush but he hit this right on the head.
JKL2
December 19th, 2011
11:45 am
aquagirl- they want to stick others with the consequences of their failures while they continue living high on the hog.
Liberalism says,’What?”
Vote for obama. Free money for everyone!
Danny O
December 19th, 2011
11:49 am
Our “freedom to succeed” is as strong as always. “Freedom to fail” has been compromised of late, especially for large financial institutions with lots of lobbying power.
@ ByteMe:
Well said.
Jefferson
December 19th, 2011
11:50 am
Coal is old and dying.
roughrider
December 19th, 2011
11:54 am
Surely we have had enough of the Bush family.
Road Scholar
December 19th, 2011
11:54 am
So when a person knowingly takes down a system, or at least screws others based on the actions taken, their should be no regulation, no guidelines, no ramifications? Growth, whether it be personal or business, has its ups and downs, and a person pays for that based on how they are taught and what they retain and use. When it affects others directly, isn’t there more responsibility?
Kyle Wingfield
December 19th, 2011
11:55 am
Road @ 11:54: “No regulation”? Try reading the whole piece.
td
December 19th, 2011
11:56 am
Byteme and Here we go again, I see both of you on these blogs over and over again talking about how dumb Republicans are and you have to know that this is totally against all evidence. Republicans voters are way smarter than Democratic voters and it is easily proved. Just go look at voting districts that vote overwhelming Republican and the go look at the SAT scores for the same school districts. After you do that then go and do the same for Democratic districts. You will find that the children of Republicans score way higher than the children of Democratic voters.
So please stop talking about one parties voters smarter then the other because it just makes you look dumb.
MarkV
December 19th, 2011
11:57 am
What Jeb Bush wrote are platitudes that anybody can write. It is the practical implementation where the differences start. It is like one visitor here lately who wrote that he wanted no regulation of the free market, except against monopoly. Why then that one exception? Why not two, three …
If you take Jeb Bush’s words (and Kyle’s agreement) literally, then you are against any form of safety net. Really, Kyle? No exception?
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
11:57 am
redneck….you are right! The republicans have given Obama an “out” of the whitehouse card!! See Hussein.
The Snark
December 19th, 2011
11:57 am
JKL2: You’ve inspired me to devise a slogan for the Georgia Republican Party:
“Free money for our contributors and cronies!”
Jefferson
December 19th, 2011
11:58 am
Is he mad about borrowing money to pay unemployment bennies ? The extra premiums got him down ?
Do you have a new crush ?
JDW
December 19th, 2011
11:58 am
In general I think the piece is an extreme oversimplification that panders to those longing for the “good old days” when in fact they never even existed in the first place.
Lets pick on two of the more interesting fallacies. Bush writes,
“Are we no longer willing to place our trust in the creative chaos unleashed by millions of people pursuing their own best economic interests? ”
This is another example of the selective channeling of Adam Smith. Today’s Republicans want to glorify the myth of Darwinian economic survival (while interestingly enough refusing to acknowledge its real place…biology). The strong survive and in doing so make it good for the rest of us. Of course there is some truth to that argument. We need “creative chaos” that is created by people pursing their own economic interests. But as Smith himself clearly recognized society must set the ground rules to govern both fair play and preservation of common interests. The “creative chaos” can’t be allowed to do things like melt down the financial system because of greed, pollute the planet so that it becomes uninhabitable for future generations or stack the deck so that only the “connected” thrive. The fact is that left untended “creative chaos” for the benefit only of one’s own economic interest will eventually kill the very society it is meant to serve.
Now on to this bit,
“We either can go down the road we are on, a road where the individual is allowed to succeed only so much before being punished with ruinous taxation, where commerce ignores government action at its own peril, and where the state decides how a massive share of the economy’s resources should be spent. ”
This is specious on its face. You want to talk “ruinous taxation” go back to the 40’s, 50’s, 60’s and 70’s where the top rate was 70%+ then you have an argument, even though our economic growth rate was superior in those days. A top rate of 35% to 50% is not “ruinous”. It is those that are reaping the benefits of the US environment paying the bill for maintaining that environment.
What we really need is another Eisenhower…who said among other things
“Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.”
and who understood that moderation and cooperation as a means of governance was far better than conflict and ideology.
Kyle Wingfield
December 19th, 2011
11:59 am
ByteMe @ 11:13: I’d love to hear how exactly how you think things are more complicated — and I advise you to read the whole piece before you respond, because the rest of Bush’s op-ed expressly rejects the false choice (to use one of Obama’s favorite phrases) of “a libertarian utopia” or the conditions we currently face.
Because I tend to think your dismissal of “simple platitudes for simple people” is, well, too simplistic.
td
December 19th, 2011
11:59 am
Road Scholar
December 19th, 2011
11:54 am
Even if you statement was true (and we all know it is not) then what is the alternative? The government making the decisions on winners and losers? Or could it be we have no risk taking so then in return we have no wealth?
Kyle Wingfield
December 19th, 2011
12:03 pm
JDW @ 11:58: Interesting that you would charge Bush with “selective channeling of Adam Smith,” and then choose to ignore this part of his piece:
“The right to rise does not require a libertarian utopia to exist. Rather, it requires fewer, simpler and more outcome-oriented rules. Rules for which an honest cost-benefit analysis is done before their imposition. Rules that sunset so they can be eliminated or adjusted as conditions change. Rules that have disputes resolved faster and less expensively through arbitration than litigation. “
Road Scholar
December 19th, 2011
12:03 pm
td: “Republicans voters are way smarter than Democratic voters and it is easily proved. ”
Et tu?
Kyle:’..anti-overregulation..” I guess it decides on your definition of “anti-overregulation”! Many consider ANY regulation or level of regulation as over doing it, don’t they?
sam
December 19th, 2011
12:04 pm
if jeb does decide to run for president he’ll have to change his last name first…may want to change first name too
Kyle Wingfield
December 19th, 2011
12:04 pm
Road @ 12:03: And Bush, in his piece, rejects that definition.
Stephenson Billings
December 19th, 2011
12:05 pm
According to Obama (the product of 40 years of liberal “education”) free market Capitalism doesn’t work and never has. :rolleyes:
bc
December 19th, 2011
12:07 pm
@td: First of all, the SAT isn’t the sole measure of measuring intelligence. Furthermore, don’t assume that Cobb and Gwinnett counties are the best proxies for the intelligence of Republican voters. Please also include the rural counties of Georgia and THEN run your analysis in comparison to the Democrats (if you have the courage). Moreover, if the party of Dubya and Nixon is so smart why are the so-called “red states” ALWAYS ranked near the bottom (with DC, to be fair) of national SAT rankings (and any other educational ranking)?
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
12:08 pm
sam…..try typing English first.
get out much?
December 19th, 2011
12:08 pm
I wonder if Jeb sent a copy of the article to his brother Neil …
Devil's Advocate
December 19th, 2011
12:09 pm
td is the perfect example of why those who receive statistical results should not be the ones to go spouting them off as if they have a full understanding of what factors were measured and led to said results.
Let me guess, national SAT scores were higher in 1980, 1984, 1988, 2000, and 2004 than in 1976, 1992, 1996, and 2008.
sam
December 19th, 2011
12:09 pm
we’ll see how much jeb hates all these regulations when little georgie the 4th gets salmenilla from his lobster dinner tonight or his breakfast filet mignon is tainted…”well daddy, we had to give those suppliers the freedom to fail”
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
12:09 pm
bc….you do know that your “Dubya” is something that Obama will never be……A TWO TERM PRESIDENT!
sam
December 19th, 2011
12:11 pm
i can take a lot of things, but i shall not take grammar lessons from a UGA grad….hows that buddy? typed well enough for you?
Stephenson Billings
December 19th, 2011
12:12 pm
I concur:
“The Right to Rise” – a phrase that comes from Lincoln historian Gabor Boritt, who used it to describe Lincoln’s unshakable belief that “The progress by which the poor, honest, industrious and resolute man raises himself, that he may work on his own account and hire somebody else … is the great principle for which this government was really formed.”
Say What
December 19th, 2011
12:13 pm
“This is the anti-bailout, anti-cronyism, anti-overregulation, anti-”do something” mantra we need to hear from the Republican alternative to Barack Obama next year.”
This argument is baseless. Look at the financial meltdown of 2008. It is as a direct result/consequence of lack or no regulation by both GWB’s and B.Clinton’s administration. I shudder to think what this world will look like today if the bailouts were not given to prop up the financial/automotive industries by the Bush administration. The same proponents of “Let capitalism rule” are the same people who will have their caps in hand once things go sour. You cant have it both ways. The #1 goal of capitalism/capitalists is to make a profit. If it means screwing their mothers or blatantly skirting rules designed to keep them in check- they will gladly do it without batting an eyelid.
Stephenson Billings
December 19th, 2011
12:14 pm
“Please also include the rural counties of Georgia and THEN run your analysis in comparison to the Democrats (if you have the courage). ”
Ah yes, the “dumb hillbilly/redneck” stereotype. Gotta love elitists.
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
12:14 pm
sam….Nope, you still couldn’t get it right. Should it be “typed” or “Typed”?
JDW
December 19th, 2011
12:22 pm
Kyle…I did not ignore that piece. I simply think that piece is inadequate. Bush is focused on “outcome based” rules in this piece and I don’t have a real disagreement with that part. We need simpler more clearly focused outcome based rules as they relate to things like patents, workplace rules etc… and I think that is what he was speaking to.
I don’t think he believes that we need stronger environmental regulations, or that warming is a problem, or financial institutions have to reigned in before they create yet another meltdown or that gambling on Wall Street creates no economic value. I think he wants to regulate everything to a “cost/benefit analysis” and if it doesn’t fit in the box it is to be ignored.
What if......
December 19th, 2011
12:24 pm
UGA 1999,
Pretty much everyday you come here and proclaim that the President will be defeated come 2012?
What if you’re wrong and the man gets reelected? Will you admit that your proclamations were premature or gear up for 4 more years of complaining?
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
12:26 pm
What if…..Absolutely.
Devil's Advocate
December 19th, 2011
12:27 pm
Stephenson Billing,
What’s wrong with stereotypes? Don’t we use them freely in this country for pretty much any demographic one can define?
Is a stereotype a proven fact?
Anyway, Cobb and Gwinnett are two school systems out of about 179 in the state. The point was to not use perhaps the two most successful public school districts in the state to support a political corollary.
Here we go again
December 19th, 2011
12:28 pm
td, nothing of what you said made sense. I’ll go point by point.
1. I think this is the first time I’ve ever posted something on Kyle’s blog. Perhaps someone else uses the same name.
2. I was admittedly being incendiary (heck, that’s what happens on anonymous message boards) but I wasn’t trying to say that republicans were dumb. I was trying to say that they have been ignoring some key facts about our current economic/social situation (or, more likely, dismissing these facts as fabrications by the “lame stream media”).
3. I don’t know that “smart” people necessarily make better political decisions. I know plenty of very intelligent people who are republicans; they just don’t have very high morals. Same goes with democrats.
4. If you really DID want to correlate education with voter party, as if it really meant something, trumpeting statistics about the SAT scores of voters’ children is a ridiculous way to do it. Children can’t vote. Republicans tend to be richer and can afford to send their kids to better schools. Plus, the SAT doesn’t really measure intelligence; it measures how good you are at taking the SAT.
If you really want to play that game, why don’t you use as your sample population all people who have PhDs. Then see what percentage identify as republican vs democrat.
HDB
December 19th, 2011
12:28 pm
“…… freedom to do something or nothing.”
That’s an INTERESTING choice of words: do something when it comes to protecting a crony’s interest like the oil companies….but do nothing to protect the national interest by saving the auto industry! Do something when imposing the conservative moralistic view on those who may differ in philosophy; do nothing when the hypocracy is blatently shown!! Do something to save the banks from collapsing….do nothing when your brother is caught in the middle of the shenanigans!!!
Very interesting……….
redneckbluedog
December 19th, 2011
12:28 pm
Jefferson
December 19th, 2011
11:50 am
Coal is old and dying.
—————————————
Most estimates have oil around for another 50 years….There is at least a 100 years of natural gas..but some scientists assume that natural gas will get used more when the oil runs out, so they give it 75 years….Coal will be around for 100 years…..Unfortunately, coal is very expensive to process for chemicals and we have out opinions as to coal for fuel….
You can argue these facts, give or take…but they are pretty close….
Aquagirl
December 19th, 2011
12:33 pm
.I simply think that piece is inadequate.
It’s quite adequate if you take the Obama approach of being a blank screen, and letting the reader project all their hope ‘n change onto your blankness. It’s a bunch of pablum and vague pep talk.
Out of all his complaints about ” thousands of rules” Mr. Bush the Even Lesser can’t mention one? Gosh, what a tragic unintentional oversight.
Bobsie
December 19th, 2011
12:36 pm
If truth were to be known, the logical end game for capitalism is one guy wins everything. We’re well on our way; the top 1% have 50% of it now. And you can see its effects … with money comes economic power, with economic power comes political power, with political power comes police and military power. Power corrupts; everyone eventually loses, save for one.
MarkV
December 19th, 2011
12:37 pm
The fundamental fallacy of the free market purists, which Jeb Bush pretends to be in the quotation, is that they write and talk about rewards, “the fruits of good decisions,” as if these rewards were coming from some divine source, independent of the society.
The rewards people get in a society are, or should be, in exchange of what they contribute to others, and depends to a large degree on contributions of others. Socialism is a failed economic system because it is based on the idea that these contributions as well as needs can be centrally determined. Free market is the only system we know that provides a successful mechanism for both determinations, but does not do it perfectly. The experience shows that it cannot exist without corrections, which include regulations and a safety net.
Jeb Bush in the full text of his articles (unlike in what Kyle has presented) tacitly accepts the need for some rules, but his recipe, “Rather, it requires fewer, simpler and more outcome-oriented rules, “ is again just a platitude. Who would not agree with a need for outcome-oriented rules? It is the specifics where the views of the rules differ.
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
12:38 pm
Bobsie….Extreme point of view, eh?
bill
December 19th, 2011
12:39 pm
Captialism doesnt equal Freedom at all, no matter how right tries to spin it.. The chinese are very big on capitalism and they arent free.
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
12:41 pm
bill…..The Chinese are also Communists. I have been there multiple times and there is NO comparison to our economy or political structure.
yuzeyurbrane
December 19th, 2011
12:56 pm
Nice written speech by Jeb but there is little empirical evidence to back his claims. Karl Marx was probably closer to the truth when he said that unbridled capitalism inevitably leads to 1%/99% dichotomy we now face. No, I am not a Marxist (before td gets on a rant) but we some of his ideas were on point.
Hillbilly D
December 19th, 2011
1:04 pm
Too bad the world got more complicated than that years ago.
The world has always been complicated, it’s just that each generation sees itself as enlightened and on the cutting edge. There is more accumulated knowledge now but humans are no smarter than they’ve ever been. Look at the people who built the pyramids of Egypt or South America, the fact that the Polynesians found every island in the Pacific, in what were basically outrigger canoes, the people who explored the concepts of algebra and geometry, the originators of the Arabic numeral system and you can go on and on. Anybody smart enough to do what they did, was just as smart as anyone living today.
Here we go again
December 19th, 2011
1:06 pm
well to the extent that marxism = the historical examples of communism in the 20th century, Karl Marx wouldn’t be a marxist, either.
td
December 19th, 2011
1:10 pm
yuzeyurbrane
December 19th, 2011
12:56 pm
Any true capitalist knows that when you have no middle class then you have no market to sell your goods and services and you do not get richer. Look back through history and one does not get to the 99%, 1% without first government control of the centralised economy. Government control is to root of all evil not the capitalist. When the government has minimal control then the economy is growing and produces greater wealth for more individuals.
Ron Paul 2012
December 19th, 2011
1:10 pm
I wish all these neocon water carriers would support Ron Paul instead of wishing others to be like him. Even tho Paul is top tier candidate, we have to read a whole article essentially about Newt and Romney, two laughing stocks to any real conservative, with a stupid note below about how they should hold Ron Paul’s economic ideals. It’s not in their DNA. Stop supporting fake conservatives. BTW for all you people that like Paul, but “don’t like his foreign policy”, this is for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8NhRPo0WAo
Bobsie
December 19th, 2011
1:14 pm
“Extreme point of view, eh?”
Not really. I just think you should know what path you are choosing to follow and its ultimate economic, social and political implications. Capitalism is not freedom or democracy and ultimately, the antithesis of such.
Bobsie
December 19th, 2011
1:20 pm
Ron Paul’s “Austria school” economic ideology would put us disastrously back on the gold standard. Anymore Neaderthal economic thinking won’t solve our problems. Learn from history folks.
Jefferson
December 19th, 2011
1:22 pm
EPA don’t like coal
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
1:23 pm
Bobsie…..Ron Paul’s chances are virtually none that he will get the nomination. Don’t worry.
JF McNamara
December 19th, 2011
1:24 pm
A true free market is a disaster. We have controlled capitalism now, and we’re actually more capitalistic than in American recent history. We swung back since the trust busting big Union days.
Pure capitalism leads to monopolies which leads to high prices which leads to low economic growth. Pure capitalism means no regulation which means people will dump chemicals in the enviroment. Pure Capitalism means legalized gambling and prostitution. Pure capitalism means no rules on big banks.
Pure Capitalism would be an unmitigated distaster, and no one would like it. In the world today, the only pure capitalistic places I can think of are 3rd world countries. The balance we have now is pretty much near optimal.
Bobsie
December 19th, 2011
1:25 pm
But we should fear the other candidates when they “ape” Ron’s Neanderthal economics. Don’t you think?
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
1:26 pm
JF….Capitalism creates competition, which leads to lower prices and more options for the consumer.
Please tell us all how Capitalism leads to legalized gambling and prostitution?
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
1:28 pm
Bobsie….No sir.
george
December 19th, 2011
1:29 pm
Wow..this all sounds so good..all this “freedom”…freedom to succeed or fail. Problem is that this not what the rich and powerful who control this country really want. They want to consolidate power and control in the hands of the few. Every industry has a handful of players who will crush anyone in their path and will use their wealth to buy control and influence in Washington and state capitals to keep it. Wal-Mart wants the whole pie not a piece of it and so do other big companies. This is how the world works in an “un-regulated” world that the GOP wants to put in place. Their multinational coporate buddies will be fat and so will the Republican politicians who gave it to them.
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
1:32 pm
George….OH NO!! How will we all sleep at night knowing that the “evil rich GOP” will be in power again??? hahahahaha
Bobsie
December 19th, 2011
1:35 pm
Adam Smith’s “Wealth of Nations” effectively describes the efficient invisible hand of a free market. However, most are unaware that the larger part of this book was a warning about the capitalists (mercantilists) gaming the system for themselves. To wit, we observe today’s regressive tax, regulatory and political systems gamed to the wealthy capitalists.
Tom
December 19th, 2011
1:38 pm
Yes, it is truly admirable how Jeb Bush, the son and brother of Presidents and the grandson of a fabulously wealthy United States Senator, has managed to pull himself up by his bootstraps through hard work and rugged individualism. A real Horatio Alger-type story. Brings a tear to the eye.
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
1:40 pm
Tom….sure does….nice comment.
Bobsie
December 19th, 2011
1:40 pm
Free markets, not capitalism, create competition. Capitalism creates monopolies. You need to get your economics corrected.
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
1:42 pm
Bobsie….actually you need to read up on your Economics 101.
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
1:44 pm
I wonder what most think about the way Obama is now handling North Korea. Instead of reaching out to N. Korea and offering to help in their time of change, he has reached out to China and South Korea. And we wonder why N. Korea is already taking agressive actions with their military?
Bobsie
December 19th, 2011
1:44 pm
To extend further … competition creates squeezed margins and lower prices. Capitalism creates monopolies with higher prices and extreme margins. BTW, where did you go to school?
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
1:46 pm
Bobsie…..This may help….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
Bobsie
December 19th, 2011
1:47 pm
I teach Econ 101 as well as graduate seminars on comparitive economic systems. You are welcome in my class.
Bobsie
December 19th, 2011
1:48 pm
Okay, you got your schoolin’ from Wiki.
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
1:49 pm
Bobsie….based on your comments I HIGHLY doubt your claim. Your ignorance regarding the subject proves my point. Are you ripping off your clients?
Bobsie
December 19th, 2011
1:53 pm
Your simplistic understanding of a complex and nuanced discipline is not serving you well here. Sounds bites does not a scholar make. And calling names actually shows your colors more than anything you’ve tried to say.
redneckbluedog
December 19th, 2011
1:55 pm
Boehner’s trying to go out like Newt did in 1999….as the most hated man in America..:-)….
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
1:55 pm
Bobsie… Please show where I called names…
redneckbluedog
December 19th, 2011
1:57 pm
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
1:44 pm
————————————
After you have taken out public enemies #1, 2, and 3…then you may have some credibility on this administration’s foreign policy decisions….
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
1:59 pm
redneck…..Let’s see….
Public Enemy #1 Hussein Obama
Public Enemy #2 Nancy Pelosi
Public Enemy #3 Harry Reid
GREAT POINT!!!!
redneckbluedog
December 19th, 2011
2:04 pm
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
1:59
———————————-
I bet I can name 39 Republican senators that will disagree with you on that…and two of them are in Georgia..:-)….
Bobsie
December 19th, 2011
2:06 pm
If everything beyond your ideology is “ignorant” then you have shown your colors. Those who will not learn from [economic] history are doomed to repeat it.
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
2:08 pm
redneck…go for it….I am waiting.
HDB
December 19th, 2011
2:09 pm
…..and how did the Bushes MAKE their money??
1) Senator Prescott Bush was accused of helping finance the Nazi Party/ Government in Germany up until 1943
2) George HW. Bush’s dealings in South America- oil, drug barons (Noriega) and one wonders maybe some of his Dad’s (Prescott) old expatriate German friends ……
History is stranger than fiction…….
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
2:10 pm
Bobsie….If comments that you post that are totally baseless and have no reasoning to them at all…..I do believe that is pure definition of ignorant.
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
2:11 pm
HDB,,,,,WOW I didn’t realize that the “Bushes” were our presidents today!
Jefferson
December 19th, 2011
2:12 pm
Capitism is great, until the capitalist gets greedy and underhanded.
Bobsie
December 19th, 2011
2:15 pm
It’s ideologies that are baseless and have no reasoning to them at all. And that’s precisely where you sit. I challenge to you study and learn; not spout your tired sound bites as being anything profound. You’re only fooling yourself.
You may have the last word now, I’ve got class.
HDB
December 19th, 2011
2:15 pm
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
2:11 pm
Point is…Bushes didn’t have bootstraps…..Tom forgot to add /snarc/ (I got it though!)
Lest YOU forget…it was NEIL Bush that gave us the precursor of the financial crash with the S&L Scandal.
The nation doesn’t need to be BUSHwhacked again….twice was enough!!
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
2:17 pm
HDB…”bootstraps”…..what do you mean?
Devil's Advocate
December 19th, 2011
2:25 pm
UGA 1999,
Please stop embarrassing those of us who think highly of a UGA education, especially from the business school. The second sentence of your wikipedia link says this about capitalism:
“There is no consensus on the precise definition nor on how the term should be used as a historical category.”
So why are you trying to define the term to the blog by using a source that immediately disclaims against providing a concise definition? Further, section 3 goes on to state that there are many variants of capitalism including Free Market Capitalism.
Silver bullet answers (a.k.a. talking points) don’t work in the real world. It’s a pretty dynamic place and an analog world (props to Byte Me’s original digital binary reference).
td
December 19th, 2011
2:25 pm
HDB
December 19th, 2011
2:09 pm
The Original Bush money came from the same place as the original Kennedy money came from. They were both blockade runners and ran opium to the Chinese.
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
2:27 pm
Devils Advocate….you fool….
“There is no consensus on the precise definition nor on how the term should be used as a historical category.”
I WASNT…you JUST proved my point! Thank you.
Proud UGA grad in spite of
December 19th, 2011
2:29 pm
Why do you people entertain that idiot? He comes on all the blogs spouting his stupidity. Ignore him and maybe he’ll sliver away…….
The Lack and Absence of Moral Principles by the Republicans
December 19th, 2011
2:29 pm
Socialism is founded on moral principles, while Capitalism is concerned only with gain and profitability.
The Bushes can attest to capitalism.
Capitalism as stated by (Bobsie December 19th, 2011 12:36 pm) is “ONE GUY WINS EVERYTHING.”
The ones screaming the loudest about capitalism are the ones WHO HAVE EVERYTHING.
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
2:30 pm
Proud UGA fan……you must have me confused with someone else. Maybe someone else is using my moniker……nice.
carlosgvv
December 19th, 2011
2:30 pm
In other words, what Bush wants is what all of Big Business wants – a return to laissez faire predatory Capitalism. If all you Republicans weren’t so anxious to get a ligher shade of pale in the White House, you might be able to see how Bush and Business are more than willing to throw you under the bus to get what they want.
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
2:32 pm
carlosgvv…..hey our candidate (Cain) was blacker than yours (Obama). Nice try.
JDW
December 19th, 2011
2:34 pm
@Proud…”Why do you people entertain that idiot? He comes on all the blogs spouting his stupidity. Ignore him and maybe he’ll sliver away…….”
Right you are…I do try but sometimes I just can’t help myself….
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
2:35 pm
JDW…..”just can’t help myself”……Typical Democrat….lacking control!
BW
December 19th, 2011
2:35 pm
UGA 1999
What does being blacker mean exactly?
The Lack and Absence of Moral Principles by the Republicans
December 19th, 2011
2:36 pm
@td December 19th, 2011 11:56 am – Republicans voters are way smarter than Democratic voters and it is easily proved. You will find that the children of Republicans score way higher than the children of Democratic voters. So please stop talking about one parties voters smarter then the other because it just makes you look dumb.
*************************************************************
Iam a retired educator who taught at a 95% white school and your notion that Republican children are smarter is FALSE.
They had children at this school who were from upper middle class families THAT WERE DUMB AS ROCKS.
So your theory does not hold water! Try another one.
Proud UGA grad in spite of
December 19th, 2011
2:37 pm
A hit dog will holler! Notice no mention of said moniker directly, yet a response!
And it’s nice to be a GRAD over just a FAN any day of the week!!!
Repub
December 19th, 2011
2:38 pm
He sounds good don’t he. Who would profile the whole family? The smart and educated will be slow to judge.
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
2:38 pm
THE LACK…..”upper middle class families that were dumb as rocks”…….you should have done a better job as their teacher.
td
December 19th, 2011
2:38 pm
carlosgvv
December 19th, 2011
2:30 pm
Now you make no sense at all and know very little about the market place. Please tell me a business that is willing to throw there buyers “under the bus”? How do you make more money when you are alienating buyers?
Alienating consumers on a regular basis only happens in government because they are pure monopolies.
Repub
December 19th, 2011
2:40 pm
Lack,, let me guess. Teacher Union Dem?
Devil's Advocate
December 19th, 2011
2:41 pm
Oh, my bad. I thought I read this statement about what “capitalism” does:
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
1:26 pm
JF….Capitalism creates competition, which leads to lower prices and more options for the consumer.
Please tell us all how Capitalism leads to legalized gambling and prostitution?
—————————————————————–
I think you were talking about a free market system, not “capitalism”.
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
2:43 pm
Devils….nope.
BW
December 19th, 2011
2:43 pm
Kyle
In regards to the article…the editoral is not bad at all. Though he doesn’t explicitly say this, I’m going to assume that Jeb doesn’t believe in a progressive tax system (i.e. the more you make the more you pay). I would love to know what we he thinks our responsibilities to our fellow citizens is. I don’t think anyone disagrees with being allowed to rise…that opportunity is still available in the US…legal immigrants come over all the time and proof through entreprenuership or high level contributions to companies. The main argument among all ideological stripes is concerning the falling part. Should multiple companies be allowed to fail because one had shady business dealings? Should they be bailed out? Should individuals who break laws be sent to prison? There seem to be no “result-based outcomes” that are consistent when it comes to culpability. It is very clear that justice is often determined by how much of a retainer you can afford to pay your legal team. There is nothing wrong with capitalism as long as all play by the rules of the road and is always punished for not doing so.
td
December 19th, 2011
2:43 pm
The Lack and Absence of Moral Principles by the Republicans
December 19th, 2011
2:36 pm
Where is your statistical proof? You can go to the Georgia DOE website and look at particular schools in heavily voting Republican district and their children score 300 or higher points then in any school heavy democratic voting district. Where is your proof?
ab
December 19th, 2011
2:43 pm
Proud UGA grad
Agreed. I don’t understand why people respond to the other UGA.
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
2:44 pm
ab….because you never have any proof to refute what I say. Keep quiet….I win!
St Simons - we're on Island time
December 19th, 2011
2:46 pm
We love our fans, and our grads,
our students, and UGA dads.
A Bush wants the freedum to fail. I swear, the comedy writes itself.
td
December 19th, 2011
2:47 pm
BW
December 19th, 2011
2:43 pm
” I’m going to assume that Jeb doesn’t believe in a progressive tax system (i.e. the more you make the more you pay).”
Define “progressive tax system”? 25% of $1 million is a lot more being paid then 25% of $10,000.
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
2:47 pm
St Simons…..freedum???? HAHAHAHAH LMFAO!
JF McNamara
December 19th, 2011
2:51 pm
UGA 1999,
“JF….Capitalism creates competition, which leads to lower prices and more options for the consumer. Please tell us all how Capitalism leads to legalized gambling and prostitution?”
In its purest form, capitalism requires no regulations. Its close to anarchy. Supply and Demand are the only limitations. People can create economic value through both gambling and prostitution because people will pay for it. If you outlaw either, you no longer have pure capitalism because the government has intervened in the process. You have imposed regulations so it is no longer “free”. Only lack of demand can cause failure in pure capitalism.
Pure Capitalism leads to monopolies, because the strongest companies buy out the competition and companies are free to collude or price fix. Its really that simple. We in a state of controlled capitalism now, and the only reason we don’t have monopolies now is our antitrust department. Even with our antitrust department, we have companies with a large majority of the market share. Google search, Microsoft OS, Verizon & AT&T would all be monopolies if allowed. Prices would then rise.
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
2:57 pm
JF……The Microsoft OS was/is a great service that until lately the industry could not match. Apple has done a great job of improving their services and offerings to compete with Microsoft. Capitalism creates competition.
Verizon and AT&T became Monopolies BECAUSE of the regulations….Small companies were still able to resell their infrastructure and/or create their own. They were also territorial which created another mess of headaches when AT&T broke up into the “baby bells”.
BW
December 19th, 2011
3:01 pm
td
That’s not how a progressive tax system works….the example you are using is a flat tax. The progressive tax system I am referring to is one where the rates go up at different income thresholds.
The Lack and Absence of Moral Principles by the Republicans
December 19th, 2011
3:01 pm
Kyle in your article Bush writes: We have to make it easier for people to do the things that allow them to rise.
WE HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN JEB BUSH!
Would he CHEAT to make it easier for his brother to RISE?
For 36 hectic days after the 2000 election, most Americans were distracted by the circus in Florida. While wrangling reporters, politicians, lawyers, and judges argued about counting or not counting punch card ballots, Florida Governor Jeb Bush, George W. Bush’s brother, was orchestrating the last act of the radical Republican plan to send the eldest Bush boy to Washington.
The first act began after Jeb’s election in 1998. Jeb and his cohorts let special interests know that they expected political donations of $2 for every $1 donated to Democrats or defaulters would lose access to the governor and the legislative leadership, and their businesses would tank. As they say in lobbyist circles, “Pay to play.”
No sooner had he taken the oath of office than Jeb Bush began ferreting out and replacing Democrats throughout Florida state government, his first purge of Democratic voters.
“Top Republicans used the powers of their offices to inject partisanship and instill fear down through the ranks of the state bureaucracy.
ragnar danneskjold
December 19th, 2011
3:02 pm
Jeb would be ok. Paul Ryan would be my first choice among those not running. But practically anyone would be an upgrade over the community organizer.
UGA 1999
December 19th, 2011
3:02 pm
THE LACK……great wasnt it?
The Lack and Absence of Moral Principles by the Republicans
December 19th, 2011
3:05 pm
@Repub December 19th, 2011 2:40 pm – Lack,, let me guess. Teacher Union Dem?
*********************************
NO, teacher union Repub!
BW
December 19th, 2011
3:05 pm
Ragnar
The voters will decide that on the first Tuesday in November as they always do.
Lack
Please stop bringing up the 2000 election. It doesn’t do anything to address the 2012 election.
The Lack and Absence of Moral Principles by the Republicans
December 19th, 2011
3:06 pm
@ragnar danneskjold December 19th, 2011 3:02 pm – Jeb would be ok. Paul Ryan would be my first choice among those not running. But practically anyone would be an upgrade over the community organizer.
________________________________
Be careful what you wish for!
Stevie Ray
December 19th, 2011
3:07 pm
LACKANDABSENCE,
I’m not sure if your are seriously suggesting that cronyism and corruption are the exclusive territory of either party. There exists no shortage of evidence that our current administration is more corrupt than even Bush’s…For example, what happened to BO”s “sunshine before signing” promise or suggestion that “the days are over for lobbyists who dictate Washington agenda:? What about the cronies of BO who got 80% of GREEN funding per Stimulus?
redneckbluedog
December 19th, 2011
3:07 pm
SPEAKER PELOSI would like to thank all of the Georgia Tea Party representatives in the US House for allowing her to regain HUGE majorities in 2012….
MarkV
December 19th, 2011
3:12 pm
When someone calls other people by name, but calls the President “community organizer,” the lack of intelligence is obvious. Would he call one of the shining lights of the Republicans “the actor?”
td
December 19th, 2011
3:13 pm
BW
December 19th, 2011
3:01 pm
td
That’s not how a progressive tax system works….the example you are using is a flat tax. The progressive tax system I am referring to is one where the rates go up at different income thresholds.
I used my example to show that it is a “progressive tax system” because the more money you make then the more money you pay. The system we are currently using is not progressive but instead a redistributive system that punishes achievement, hard work and risk taking and is not a “fair” system to tax.
Stevie Ray
December 19th, 2011
3:15 pm
KYLE,
Seems to me that our entire culture is one suggesting that all of us, more obviously the permanent political class, make a living not accepting blame and utilize vast amounts of energy and cash to point out contradictions in others…
Think about JEB BUSH’s comments about letting people fail…which by the way it the best means of success…our “poor” folks live better than any “poor” folks on earth. Most having a car, cable, microwaves and housing. In many instances, our welfare system has certainly provided dis-incentive to work, maintain two parent households (or engaged separately), have more kids than one can manage etcetera…
Capitalism works just fine until too much government intervention skews the profit and loss equation which is the ultimate validation of success or failure..
myother
December 19th, 2011
3:15 pm
The fix is and was a return to the Glass Steagall act. The bailout did nothing for nobody and was only our milquetoast politicians (Reps and Dems) maintaining the status quo and retaining power. Fucntionally the Reps and Dems are only one party with only one desire and that is to maintain their power. Who cares if every election they play good cop/bad cop as long as the threat of a third party is minimized. The politicians pander, we relect them, the game continues, but there is no real change. Until a third party has enough support from the people to compete with the Reps and Dems the game will continue.
Stevie Ray
December 19th, 2011
3:16 pm
REDNECKBLUEDOG,
Do you support Pelosi and her body of work?
Shine
December 19th, 2011
3:17 pm
Jeb Bush…..another Kook. Deregulating anything is the last thing we need if the last decade has taught anything to those who are awake. And if some Kook like Romney or whoever has about 20 different corporations and ones goes belly up then the right to sue the other corps for losses needs to be addressed. And lastly being Kooks think corporations have attained personhood, one needs to be charged with murder if one kills off a poor ole corporation.
The Lack and Absence of Moral Principles by the Republicans
December 19th, 2011
3:18 pm
@BW December 19th, 2011 3:05 pm Lack – Please stop bringing up the 2000 election. It doesn’t do anything to address the 2012 election.
************************
The truth hurts does it not?
Why should we listen to a man who lacks moral and ethical principles and who would try to influence an election by any means necessary?
Stevie Ray
December 19th, 2011
3:19 pm
MYOTHER,
Wow, someone who has a clue that congress and executive branch are for many reasons the heart of the mortgage/economy disaster we are currently enduring. Until we get government reform in terms of cronyism, insider trading and landgrabs etcetera, any discussions about the economy, healthcare, environmental issues and the like are a waste of time…
td
December 19th, 2011
3:20 pm
redneckbluedog
December 19th, 2011
3:07 pm
SPEAKER PELOSI would like to thank all of the Georgia Tea Party representatives in the US House for allowing her to regain HUGE majorities in 2012….
And how do you think this is going to happen? Please show us where there will be that much turnover? Let us take Georgia for example: Georgia currently has 4 safe Democratic districts that there will not be any turnover. Georgia has 7 safe current Republican districts. There is one district (currently held by a Democrat) that there is about a 60% chance that will turn over to Republicans and then the new district we have that is a 90% chance will be filled by a Republican. This means Georgia will have a plus 1 and probably plus 2 additional Republicans sent to Congress next year.
Stevie Ray
December 19th, 2011
3:22 pm
LACK OF ABSENCE AND MORAL PRINCIPALS,
Who in the history of our electorate wouldn’t do or say anything to get elected? Can you think of any examples relative to BO? Did he say or promise anything that he hasn’t delivered simply to get a demographic of voters? Are you capable of balanced evaluation or do you suggest that one party is more corrupt that the other?
td
December 19th, 2011
3:25 pm
Shine
December 19th, 2011
3:17 pm
“And lastly being Kooks think corporations have attained personhood”
How is a union, community organization (NAACP, NRA…) any different then a corporation? Why should they be treated differently? That was the law prior to the SC decision.
The Lack and Absence of Moral Principles by the Republicans
December 19th, 2011
3:25 pm
This is the anti-bailout, anti-cronyism, anti-overregulation, anti-”do something” mantra we need to hear from the Republican alternative to Barack Obama next year.
****************************************************
WHAT this is – is BS! Coming from a man who cheated in 2000 to get his brother elected president.
WE HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN! AND NEVER WILL.
redneckbluedog
December 19th, 2011
3:31 pm
td
December 19th, 2011
3:20 pm
——————————
Not a fan of the former speaker, per se…..But even more against extremism at the expense of the American people…..You do know that the United States IS bigger than Georgia….You know that even the Confederacy had like 7 or 8 other states..!?!?
Phil Gingrey says that the standoff against 80% of his Republican Senate colleagues is his “Braveheart Moment”……In the words of Beavis and Butthead….Uuuuhhhh……Not exactly the same thing, maybe..!?!?
td
December 19th, 2011
3:35 pm
The Lack and Absence of Moral Principles by the Republicans
December 19th, 2011
3:25 pm
“WHAT this is – is BS! Coming from a man who cheated in 2000 to get his brother elected president.
WE HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN! AND NEVER WILL”
This is totally one big fat BS myth and anyone that looks at the evidence knows it.
1: Gore and the Dems cherry picked the most heavily Dem districts to recount.
2: The NY times, Washington post and Miami Herold went and spent considerable money and time to try to prove the SC placed Bush into office. The end result was that they said (these are not conservative papers) even if the vote would have continued, with the most liberal interpretation of what constitutes a vote, Bush would have still won.
You really need to quit spreading these false accusations around and face the facts that Gore lost and Bush was a legitimate President.
JKL2
December 19th, 2011
3:36 pm
the snark- “Free money for our contributors and cronies!”
No can do. obama will sue you for copyright infringement. (see “stimulus package” for details)
redneckbluedog
December 19th, 2011
3:39 pm
Most importantly, I AM 100% AGAINST BAD POLITICS…this standoff doesn’t benefit anybody…Gross…No pipeline, no tax cut….If Gingrey is sooo interested in a year extension..why is he obstructing the compromise..~?~?~
td
December 19th, 2011
3:43 pm
redneckbluedog
December 19th, 2011
3:31 pm
I just took Georgia as one example of where the Dems will not receive any gains in the house next year and will more than likely have decreases (because the new Republican seat came from a currently held Democrat in a blue state). I was asking where you are getting your data from? Even MSNBC is not showing the Dems coming close to retaking the house next year and they are showing the Republicans taking back the Senate.
Thulsa Doom
December 19th, 2011
3:44 pm
Oh boy. Kyle done did it today. He went and got the liberals all riled up by mentioning that capitalism has lifted more boats out of poverty than any other economic system. And to add insult to injury Kyle did it on a day when one of their statist heroes Kim Il Sung died.
Stevie Ray
December 19th, 2011
3:47 pm
REDNECKDOG,
You had me scared there re Pelosi for a moment.
Extreme, polarized views are a reflection of the sheepish nature of all who subscribe 100% to either party’s dogma…Do you suppose it’s to impress company one keeps or simply do to information based bias, or possibly too lazy to develop individual opinions on each issue separately???
Stevie Ray
December 19th, 2011
3:48 pm
LACKANDABSENCE,
You appear to be LACKINGFORMEANINGFULDEBATERESPONSE….
SBinF
December 19th, 2011
3:55 pm
I think I’ve had my fill of Bush administrations. Why not let someone else run for president??
Shine
December 19th, 2011
3:56 pm
TD, The question was can one be charged for killing off a corporation. They people ya know. If not, I know some people I want to incorporate ASAP.
Ol' Timer
December 19th, 2011
3:57 pm
Ol’ Jeb is what you’d call a “bumper sticker intellectual.”
JF McNamara
December 19th, 2011
4:03 pm
UGA 1999,
Apple only exists because Microsoft wasn’t allowed to buy them. If we had a free market, Microsoft would have bought Apple to stamp out competition. Do you remember all of the Microsoft anti trust scrutiny?
When the Bell’s broke up, long distance calling prices collapsed. Competition was fostered. Competition led to the spreading of DSL and the wireless revolution. They have now reconsolidated to the point where there is minimal competition. Two players essentially own the market. What is there incentive to lower prices or expand technology?
The break up appears to have been the right thing to do. It created a competitive market place. That’s what we want. Not an environment where all actors do whatever they want to make money.
redneckbluedog
December 19th, 2011
4:06 pm
Stevie Ray
December 19th, 2011
3:47 pm
—————————
It starts with “dog-whistle” politics….Then dump on the American Idol, Fox News, and Twitter cultural “enhancements” and we get “dog-whistle politics on crack”
carlosgvv
December 19th, 2011
4:06 pm
td – 2:38
Unemployment is actually much higher than it is being reported. Corporations are awash in cash but are not hiring. They have found a way to keep profits high and unemployment higher, probably by shipping as many jobs as possible overseas. What they really want is a return to the days of 12 hour workdays, 6 day workweeks, no overtime, no paid vacations, no paid sick leave, no paid holidays,no shared paying of insurance and a return to child labor They also want to end Social Security, Medicare and Medicade. If you support all of the above, by all means vote Republican..
carlosgvv
December 19th, 2011
4:08 pm
UGA 1999 – 2:32
Your suport of Cain was nothing more than smoke and mirrors as you knew there was no way he was getting the nomination. Nice try,though.
Tiffany's Acct
December 19th, 2011
4:19 pm
Jeb Bush, the same man that loves happy endings!!!!!!!!!!!
@@
December 19th, 2011
4:31 pm
Were GW and Jeb talking prior to the bank bailouts?
That is what economic freedom looks like. Freedom to succeed as well as to fail, freedom to do something or nothing.
Does that apply to individuals too?
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.–Robert Frost
Hillbilly D
December 19th, 2011
4:53 pm
You know that even the Confederacy had like 7 or 8 other states..!?!?
There were 10 others besides Georgia; a total of 11. There were also provisional governments in some of the border states, that didn’t secede.
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
I probably would’ve taken neither road and just cut across the holler. (IW&SH)
Kyle Wingfield
December 19th, 2011
5:00 pm
JF @ 4:03: I don’t recall any Microsoft antitrust cases that had to do with Apple. I recall one (in the U.S.) involving “bundling” the browser with Windows, and another (in Europe) involving “bundling” the media player with Windows. Each of which, by the time it was resolved, had been rendered moot by the market (including, fwiw, Apple and iTunes rendering Windows Media Player commercially irrelevant).
yuzeyurbrane
December 19th, 2011
5:06 pm
td, actually I can agree that w/o middle class consuming goods, the kind of econ. prosperity we have come to count cannot happen. That is part of my part of my point. Unfortunately, many in our busn. class don’t have your clarity of vision and have merely begun to look only at short-term results and false profits from outsourcing, etc. An economy that produces nothing but profits from financial transactions or where there are not enough customers to sufficiently purchase goods mfrd. here will in the long run encounter decline. I disagree with you in that I don’t see this shortsightedness as being self-correcting in full but being a situation where the govt. can play a beneficial role for all.
The Lack and Absence of Moral Principles by the Republicans
December 19th, 2011
5:07 pm
@Stevie Ray December 19th, 2011 3:48 pm – LACKANDABSENCE, You appear to be LACKINGFORMEANINGFULDEBATERESPONSE….
***************************************************************************
“YOU” don’t tell me how to respond.
I am not going to debate with fools.
I make my comments and express my opinions.
If you don’t like it…………@##### @@@@@
Martin Williams
December 19th, 2011
5:17 pm
What Jeb Bush wrote is complete non-sense trying to defend capitalism. What is happening in the world in caused by capitalism missed with socialism. If anybody thinks United States is not a missed of socialism and capitalism needs to go back to middle school and look up both words. Capitalism is the greatest evil in the world. Capitalism missed with socialism was the reason why both parties in this country decided to bail out all those BIG businesses in 2008 and up to this point. Jeb can fool people like you Kyle, but not me. Can’t remenber the name of the author Kyle, but look for a book titled ‘ Democracy For The Few’ it is good read. Came across it in 80s.
The Lack and Absence of Moral Principles by the Republicans
December 19th, 2011
5:19 pm
” We need to let people suffer the consequences of bad decisions. And we need to let people enjoy the fruits of good decisions, even good luck.”
The problem with Jeb Bush’s statement above is that there are capitalists who make and capitalists who take.
One is making money by producing real value for others.
One is just making money by exploiting others.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 19th, 2011
5:54 pm
ByteMe: Ah, the binary world.
————————-
Hitler and his “final solution”…good or bad?
Ah, the binary world.
Obozo’s 9% unemployment…good or bad?
Obozo’s $1.5 trillion deficits…good or bad?
Obozo’s record numbers of folks living in poverty…good or bad?
Ah, the binary world.
Obozo: Failure.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 19th, 2011
5:56 pm
The Lack and Absence of Moral Principles by the Republicans: One is just making money by exploiting others.
—————————-
Name one.
Kyle Wingfield
December 19th, 2011
6:00 pm
Lack @ 5:19: I don’t see anything in Bush’s article that contradicts your point. Along those lines, I re-recommend this article.
redneckbluedog
December 19th, 2011
6:03 pm
Hillbilly D
December 19th, 2011
4:53 pm
———————————
Thank you for that clarity…..I was trying to be careful about some of the states that were late to secede as well as some of the others prior to the Missouri Compromise…
The Lack and Absence of Moral Principles by the Republicans
December 19th, 2011
6:04 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward) December 19th, 2011 5:56 pm – The Lack and Absence of Moral Principles by the Republicans: One is just making money by exploiting others.
Name one.
*********************************************************
#### @$$ #####0#### $$$$$$ @@@@@ ****you!
redneckbluedog
December 19th, 2011
6:08 pm
td
December 19th, 2011
3:20 pm
———————————-
Lot’s of Republicans got elected in swing to Democrat districts in 2010…..2012 is getting more precarious every day….I can think of 4, off hand, in Colorado, Illinois, Florida, and Virginia….Maybe 1 or 2 in Tennessee…Maybe 1 in NY…Maybe in Michigan and Wisconsin…That could be at least 10 right there…Arizona..11…
The Lack and Absence of Moral Principles by the Republicans
December 19th, 2011
6:12 pm
@ Kyle Wingfield 6:00 p.m.
The problem I have with this statement: “” We need to let people suffer the consequences of bad decisions. ”
Whose bad decisison?
What people suffer the consequences?
Does he mean suffer the consequences from the person who is just making money by exploiting others?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Thee Magnificent!!! mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
December 19th, 2011
6:31 pm
NEWT’S LEAD COLLAPSES
Next?
No, Kyle, not another Bushie.
MarkV
December 19th, 2011
6:38 pm
One more time, what Jeb Bush has written are just banalities without substance. “And we need to let people enjoy the fruits of good decisions, even good luck.” Who would disagree with that? What becomes a bone of contention is, for one thing, what is the amount of fruits people should receive?
What Goes Around Comes Around
December 19th, 2011
7:02 pm
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha
Two new polls from Iowa, one from Public Policy Polling and the other from Insider Advantage show Gingrich dropping back in the GOP race in the Hawkeye State over just the last week.
What’s interesting about the Insider Advantage poll is that the company is run by someone who has close ties to Gingrich -
Insider Advantage polled in Iowa on December 12 and had this:
Gingrich – 27%
Paul – 17%
Perry – 13%
Romney – 12%
Bachmann – 10%
The latest poll from Insider Advantage from December 18 now has Ron Paul in the lead and a giant drop in support for Gingrich:
Paul – 24%
Romney – 18%
Perry – 16%
Gingrich – 13%
Bachmann – 10%
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Thee Magnificent!!! mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
December 19th, 2011
7:21 pm
CALLER: Well, because the media wants you angry. The establishment wants you angry. They want you dissatisfied with the way the system is. Part of the liberal conditioning is that you’re never happy, and that’s what liberals don’t like to admit. I mean I can honestly say that because I used to be a liberal. I was unhappy. I was angry. I didn’t like Rush Limbaugh, he was a terrible person as far as I was concerned. Even though I’d never listened to your show, I somehow knew you were a terrible person. When I actually listened to your show, I realized how wrong and I was and I feel almost ashamed that I was duped.
Isn’t it so true, if you look in the dictionary above the word “dupe” there’s always a picture of some lib.
They’re all suckers.
What?
December 19th, 2011
7:22 pm
Lil Barry @5:56 – Name one?
Any American corporation that has let go of qualified American workers in exchange for hiring/sponsoring H1B-Visa workers at a much lower wage…Delta, Home Depot, Wal-Greens, CVS, Wells-Fargo, AJC, the list goes on. I’ve not yet had one partriotic American explain to me the patriotism in putting their fellow qualified Americans in the unemployment line.
I understand profits above all else is the mantra of the day. Yet a lot of you on the right love to cry about people being anti-American and not patriotic. I just want to understand how you balance the dismantling of the American work force with patriotism. We’re not just talking manufacturing, we’re talking all sectors of the American work force.
Smokey
December 19th, 2011
8:23 pm
Amen What? I work for one of those companies and our IT department in Atlanta looks like Chennai -West probably numbering well over 500. That doesn’t include the hundreds we contract to actually located in in India. Meanwhile I have friends in IT in the Atlanta area that have been unemployed for years! Heartbreaking really…
Devil's Advocate
December 19th, 2011
8:26 pm
So is CALLER trying to say all conservatives are happy? If that’s not the message, what’s the point in calling liberals unhappy since talking points require liberals and conservatives to differ on everything.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Thee Magnificent!!! mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
December 19th, 2011
8:49 pm
I’ll never forget the picture in the Urinal of two guys, one screaming and the other trying to calm the screaming dude down, hands extended upwards in a sign of peace.
In the caption accompanying this picture, the ate up Atlanta AJC pinkos explained that the screaming dude was screaming on the behalf of the murder of Terri Schaivo.
Yeah, the liberals killed their woman. They got her.
I know which side I’m on, and it ain’t yours, DA.
just sayin….
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Thee Magnificent!!! mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
December 19th, 2011
8:54 pm
Liberals will never kill a murderer or a dictator or a genocidal maniac, unless, of course, their poll numbers require them to.
But, in a Minnesota Minute, they will kill an unborn child or some feeble invalid.
What more do you need to know?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 19th, 2011
9:22 pm
Obozo despises capitalism and every other thing that made America great. He is a menace that must be removed from office next election.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 19th, 2011
9:26 pm
What?: Any American corporation that has let go of qualified American workers in exchange for hiring/sponsoring H1B-Visa workers at a much lower wage…
——-
I asked for a company that is profiting by exploiting others. The H1-B workers took those jobs by choice–how are they being exploited?
michelle
December 19th, 2011
10:02 pm
I think Kyle is delusional because half of the American people now exist BELOW the poverty line. Capitalism has failed, and it has failed miserably. It only works when we are profitably engaged in slaughtering civilians under the euphism that we call war. Then everybody makes money and lives the american dream about owning a house and driving a car, and, and, and, having sex in that car, no, that was the thirties and forties, I know, the American dream was about having a home to hold parties where you could swap wives and maybe invite some college girls to tune in, turn on, and get naked, no, no, that was the fifties and sixties, (dammit, I get everything wrong), okay, the American dream today is about, uh, avoiding the “every-other-person-we-encounter”. Yes!
That’s it: The American Dream is about ignoring half of your constituency and……
It’s over, folks. Now, we watch the Germans take over Euro. The Germans. Yes, they’re the kind folks who are going to absorb the follies of the lazy Greeks, simply because the Aryan Race is a benevolent and charitable race. (Ignore the historical data lying behind the curtain)
If you have a bucket list…..FILL IT.
We are in the throes of revolution and visioneers like
michelle
December 19th, 2011
10:04 pm
Visioneers like….like….dammit I forgot the bit. I hate that. Sometimes I get a great bit and can’t quite write it down.
I really hate that. Maybe I’ll think of it and maybe I wont, later, but it probably stunk anyway so who cares.
Michael H. Smith
December 20th, 2011
6:06 am
I hope Jeb never runs for the Presidency Kyle. I wish more Republicans and conservatives would listen to what his mother said: The country is Bushed out.
Meaning we or the country don’t need another Bush in the White House.
With that said, I’ll tell you that Jeb would probably have made a better President than his bother. Although, he may well have taken the same actions contrary to this piece he wrote. It is very easy to talk about allowing things and people to fail Kyle, it is a great deal more difficult when the talk stops and what results becomes regrettably more painful than you thought or even thought possible. Et al Dubya and the aftermath allowing Lehmans to fail.
While I agree totally in the concepts of liberty Jeb’s piece encapsulated, which is truly a defense of liberty, it is unfortunate that this same liberty and the rights to it was sacrificed upon the alter of global inter-dependence so tightly woven to the point the collusion produced by it killed the most vital substance that capitalism must have to survive – competition. As we conservatives well know Kyle, competition, in and of itself, is not only an unwritten regulation, it is the unseen regulator of all capitalist markets and had this regulator not been manipulated to the point I mentioned, which was in effect a collusion, it is doubtful the global inter-dependence or what is called “Too Big To Fail” could have ever been given birth let alone the existence it enjoys even to this day. The point was raised earlier in a comment that highlights what I’m driving at here in this less than acceptable less than diametric competitiveness of the non-binary nature that may better be described in the slang word, “Frenemy”: When there is no longer foes that take down or knock down what is seen as an entity growing too big or too powerful in the marketplace.
Only one other comment to make on Jeb’s piece is on his view of free speech, in which I must say I like Larry Flint’s definition or version better(paraphrase): Free speech exist only when others can all say all the things you hate most and don’t want said, without government infringement or censor.
e.g.“obumer”!
Tiffany's Acct
December 20th, 2011
8:37 am
Test 1 2 3 Test 1 2 3
Observer
December 22nd, 2011
8:28 am
I don’t usually get involved in politics but after 4 years of hoping that Obama and the Democrats could fix the economic problems that the last Republican President ( Bush) and the Democratic Senate and Democratic House created (The Great Recession 2007-2011), I have totally changed my mind. I don’t think 4 more years of the same will do any more than provide time for the current Administration to “try this” and “try that? ENOUGH of the American people being experimental mice.
This new payroll tax-FICA Fiasco-Warren Buffet Rule-whatever you want to call it is VERY dangerous and needs to be thought through very thoroughly.
I don’t have a problem with creating a new tax to pass on to the 500 CEOs in the Fortune 500 that currently earn 3 to 5 million dollars a year. However, what I see the Republican House struggling with is just how this will ALSO affect the “entrepreneurial class” (20 million small businesses in America that employ 60 million-600 million workers nationwide. To me, this is the class that made America the most prosperous county in the history of mankind. I shudder to think what the payroll tax will tell them. worked 70-80 hour weeks to get ahead and provide a better life for their families. Work 80 hours a week for five-ten years for your family so you can give your profits to strangers who don’t?
What happens if this new payroll tax goes through and the Federal Government takes another 20% from this class? More if you factor in Health Care and a few other reforms they have already been forced to pay for?
It appears to me that the Democrats in Washington are scrambling to save their jobs while the Republicans are scrambling to save America.
In 2008 this southern Democrat voted to give Obama a chance. In 2012 I’m voting for Newt Gingrich (Republican). I only wish Zell Miller (Democrat) would be his running mate.