In payroll-tax debate, both parties rush to abandon principles
The debate in Washington about extending the payroll tax holiday has been remarkable. It has managed to put Republicans and Democrats alike in opposition to things they support, and in support of things they oppose. All at little actual benefit to them — or the rest of us.
OK, let’s make that “remarkably bad.”
Here are the basic facts: Last December, as part of a broader deal, the president and the Congress agreed to a one-year reduction of 2 percentage points in employees’ portion of payroll taxes, which are supposed to fund Social Security and Medicare. Leaders of both parties propose extending the holiday through next year. Both have tacked onto their proposal an unrelated extension of unemployment benefits. They have competing plans to offset the extension, which is projected to reduce revenues by $120 billion.
After that, there’s little agreement about anything.
Republicans don’t share President Obama’s obsession with raising taxes on “millionaires and billionaires” (no matter what the problem is, he says taxing “the rich” is part of the answer). Thus, he charged last week, the GOP will “barely lift a finger to prevent taxes going up for 160 million Americans who really need the help.”
And what qualifies as “barely lift[ing] a finger”? Why, proposing to do exactly what was done last year and exactly what Senate Democrats now propose, but with different offsets.
When Obama finally acknowledged Senate Republicans had proposed extending the tax holiday, he said he wouldn’t agree to a plan whose offsets — spending cuts — “hurt the economy.” Which requires him to ignore the fact that the tax cuts come today but, as usual, the spending cuts don’t kick in until a few years have passed, if ever.
This is the standard pattern by which Washington kicks the can down the road, in another of the president’s favorite tsk-tsk phrases.
But what’s really odd is how the debate has put Republicans and Democrats in one another’s shoes. Suddenly, Democrats profess belief that tax cuts create jobs.
Meanwhile, it’s left to Republicans to argue that lowering the payroll tax will destabilize Social Security. You know, the program the GOP supposedly wants to gut, right before pushing your wheelchair-bound grandma off a cliff.
To their credit, there are some Democrats who recognize that cutting the link between payroll taxes and Social Security only further weakens the notion that working Americans pay for the benefits they eventually receive. In fact, working Americans pay for current retirees, with nothing but a promise from Congress that future generations will do likewise decades hence.
Similarly, there are principled Republicans willing to make the case, an unpopular one in this instance, that not all tax cuts are created equal. A temporary tax cut with unpredictable effects on demand for business owners will have far less economic impact than a tax cut that is long-term and produces clear incentives.
Yet, for the most part, this debate features Democrats acting to weaken a cornerstone of the New Deal, while Republicans thumb their noses at a key underpinning of supply-side economics.
A lack of bipartisanship sets hands a-wringing, but at least partisan gridlock usually has the benefit of contrasting coherent, divergent philosophies. Voters then face a clear distinction and can opt for whichever viewpoint seems to fit the nation’s contemporary problems best.
I find it much more worrying for the parties to forsake those coherent, divergent philosophies in favor of political pandering.
That’s hardly an unprecedented occurrence, and the parties still will present stark contrasts next year in their visions for the size, scope and role of the federal government, as Obama observed in an interview broadcast Sunday on “60 Minutes.”
Yet, few contemporary problems are more pressing, more in need of clear choices for voters to evaluate, than the big three federal expenses of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, and how we pay for them. Fail to offer that choice, and it’ll cost the average person a lot more than $20 a week in his paycheck.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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209 comments Add your comment
UGA 1999
December 15th, 2011
1:56 pm
The Lack of Absence…..Did you really just use the line “takes one to know one”? What is next? I am rubber you are glue? HAHA you have officially graduated to second grade.
MarkV
December 15th, 2011
1:58 pm
UGA 1999 @ 1::50 pm : “MarkV….please define Marxism”
Read my post at 10:41 am
UGA 1999
December 15th, 2011
2:00 pm
HE SHOULD RUN FOR PRESIDENT AS AN INDEPENDANT!!!!
http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/15/justice/arizona-justice-department-investigation/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
The Lack and Absence of Moral Principles by the Republicans
December 15th, 2011
2:01 pm
In payroll-tax debate, both parties rush to abandon principles.
Republicans wrote the book on abandonment of moral and ethical principles. They would rather support the top 1% which they are among and throw everyone else under the bus.
The GOP claim to be the party of christian values and that Obama is not a christian.
Religion is a VERB and not a NOUN!
UGA 1999
December 15th, 2011
2:02 pm
MarkV….here is a more clear definition….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism
NOW, you made a point about the ownership and distribution of property. Would you not consider your earnings “property”?
UGA 1999
December 15th, 2011
2:05 pm
The Lack of Absense…..really? Hahaha WOW!
“Republicans wrote the book on abandonment of moral and ethical princeiples”
Abortion – Democrats
Stealing – Democrats
Devaluing Marriage – Democrats
Gay Rights – Democrats
Supporting Illegal Immigration – Democrats
Devaluing the Christian Faith – Democrats
Need I say more?
The Lack and Absence of Moral Principles by the Republicans
December 15th, 2011
2:06 pm
@UGA 1999 December 15th, 2011 1:56 pm
Yeah, like you graduated from UGA in 1999. NOT! In your dreams! Hahahahahaha!
Here’s another one.
SPEAK WHEN SPOKEN TO.
redneckbluedog
December 15th, 2011
2:07 pm
ragnar danneskjold
December 15th, 2011
1:51 pm
————————————
WAAAAHHHHH…!!! There’s just too many dern rules and regulations…that’s why I can’t be successful…WAAAAAHHHHHH…!!!! It has nothing to do with the fact I don’t have any new ideas…
America has to pull the rest of the world up economically…!!! And we’re not going to do it by whining and crying about the goverment…..The situation IS WHAT IT IS..!!!! DEAL WITH IT…!!!! Work hard, believe in America, and stop crying..!!!!!!
UGA 1999
December 15th, 2011
2:07 pm
The Lack and Absence….Is that all you have? Clown!
UGA 1999
December 15th, 2011
2:08 pm
redneck…..we agree……AMEN!
Hillbilly D
December 15th, 2011
2:12 pm
The payroll tax “holiday” will be extended for one simple reason; there’s an election coming up. It benefits neither party to piss off the electorate, at this time. The number one consideration, in any issue, is always, “how does it affect my re-election?”.
What What What?
December 15th, 2011
2:12 pm
Kyle:
But what’s really odd is how the debate has put Republicans and Democrats in one another’s shoes. Suddenly, Democrats profess belief that tax cuts create jobs.
You couldn’t be more wrong Kyle. Democrats DON’T suddenly think tax cuts create jobs. It is more money in the hands of the middle class that helps create jobs. One way is through the payroll tax cuts. We tried tax cuts skewed toward the upper class for 11 years. How did that work out for job creation?
Don't Tread
December 15th, 2011
2:16 pm
“He also compromised on the detention bill to exempt Americans”
Yeah, nice “compromise”…Americans are “exempt” if the President authorizes that. All that does is give the Presiden authority to select some citizens for indefinite detention without a trial and select others for trial in a civilian court.
The whole part of that bill that allows using the military against US citizens on US soil and indefinite detention without trial for US citizens is blatantly unconstitutional.
The Lack and Absence of Moral Principles by the Republicans
December 15th, 2011
2:19 pm
@UGA 1999 December 15th, 2011 2:05 pm
Hypocrites = Republicans
Psycho Talkers = Republicans
Evil Doers = Republicans
Unethical = Republicans
Envious = Republicans
Classless = Republicans
Crooks = Republicans
Haters = Republicans
Shameful = Republicans
Greedy = Republicans
Gutless = Republicans
Thieves = Republicans
Devils = Republicans
Two Faced = Republicans
Satan Helpers = Republicans
Rock Throwers = Republicans
RACISTS = Republicans
Need I say more?
UGA 1999
December 15th, 2011
2:22 pm
The Lack….just like I thought the only thing you could say about repubs were opinion based not factual or policy based. Nice Job.
Also racism? You really need to do more homework regarding the republican party.
UGA 1999
December 15th, 2011
2:23 pm
Envious?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!? HAHAHAHA that one made me laugh out loud!
UGA 1999
December 15th, 2011
2:24 pm
Satan Helpers?? hahaha I am pretty sure Satan would be for baby killing. Welcome to the democrat party.
UGA 1999 - Education Wlelfare Queen
December 15th, 2011
2:28 pm
Just ignore the Education Welfare Queen UGA 1999. He is so dense to think UGA is a private school and that the taxpayers of Georgia didn’t help subsidize his education.
Bart Abel
December 12th, 2011
4:43 pm
UGA 1999,
If you feel that way, maybe you should consider returning the money that Georgia taxpayers contributed to your college education at UGA. There’s nothing more frustrating than a welfare queen who goes around complaining about welfare queens.
UGA 1999
December 12th, 2011
4:44 pm
Bart…..I received a partial scholarship while at UGA and paid my own way. Try again!
UGA 1999
December 12th, 2011
4:49 pm
Bart….UGA is a private institution. Do a little research before you comment. I know you are a dem but I assumed you could read.
HDB
December 15th, 2011
2:30 pm
UGA 1999
December 15th, 2011
2:05 pm
If I can ask you this: You persistently decry what’s below as Democratic initiatives….
Abortion –
Stealing –
Devaluing Marriage –
Gay Rights –
Supporting Illegal Immigration –
Devaluing the Christian Faith –
….but you persist in putting YOUR value system upon everyone else!! Here’s where the conservative paradign suffers failure:
1) Abortion – granted, no one like to see an unborn life terminated, but the conservative position would be to let that woman make HER choicce….no governmental interference in HER decision…just a woman and her doctor….and a woman has to make her peace with HER God, not yours!!
2) Stealing – no one advocates that! The problem is that you relate taxation to theft….and if that’s the case, you’re saying that whoever has the MOST should pay the LEAST becasue they TOOK the most FROM the least! If you realize that there are MILLIONAIRES that pay NO TAXES, would you call THEM moochers…as you do those retirees who PAID into the system for years?? A nation needs revenue to perform its functions………….if it doesn’t perform what it does, are YOU prepared to fulfill much of the national role as an INDIVIDUAL!!
3/4) Devaluing Marriage/Gay Rights – NO ONE has devalued marriage; in fact, gay marriage EXPANDS the value! No one has the right to state whom they should marry……what you’re opposed to is the granting of the same rights that any hetrosexual would achieve under the marital contract….and IF you believe in the Constitution, the 14th Amendment provides “equal protection under the LAW!” If you want to focus on “devaluing marriage”, note which is the party of “family values”….but their hypocracy shows publically!! The Democrats don’t put that in the party platform because INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM and CHOICE is part of their ideology!!
5) Devaluing the Christian Faith – Democrats don’t devalue Christianity…..but they don’t FORCE religion on anyone…that’s an INDIVIDUAL CHOICE!! If you want to see who really devalues religion…note how the conservatives ostracize Muslims…and won’t take the time to communicate with them….or realize that there are OTHER religions in the world!!
Look, you are free to believe as you do; no one is taking that CHOICE from you….but the problem generates when you try to FORCE your beliefs upon others. Take the time to learn more about those who are different…..you’ll probably find out that they are more LIKE you than you think!!!
UGA 1999
December 15th, 2011
2:37 pm
HDB….
1) Abortion – “between the woman and HER doctor”….Ok, so who is there for the baby?
2) Stealing – I have no problem with taxation. Jesus said “pay what is Ceaser’s to Ceaser”. However he did turn the table over of the tax collectors in the temple because the their method of taxation was STEALING.
3) Marriage – Where does the idea of marriage come from?
5) Devaluing Christianity – Really? When you force courts, schools and other government buildings to remove the 10 commandments, but allow muslims to cover their faces in public (a crime by the way). What is that? Like it or not America is a Christian country.
HDB, thank you for being civil in your response. It is apprecaited.
HDB
December 15th, 2011
2:44 pm
UGA 1999
December 15th, 2011
2:22 pm
“tAlso racism? You really need to do more homework regarding the republican party.”
Problem is: since 1964, racism has infiltrated the GOP; note how Barry Goldwater was against the Civil Rights Act…and the conservative movement began a racist tinge! The GOP was founded by a coalition of black and abolitionists (Frederick Douglass, for one)…..but was summarily taken over by Southern Conservatives that persist in maintaining a segregationist idea.Many forget that the Southern conservatives LEFT the Democratic Party after LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act in 1964 and went to the GOP. Ronald Reagan advocated segregation when he made his announcement in Philadelphia, MS; Jesse Helms was a staunch segregationist.
IF you check the political makeup of the South, you’ll find that racist tint primarily in the GOP!! If the GOP doesn’t have a racist tint in it, then why does the GOP IGNORE minorities as constituents? Why does the GOP advocate cutting educational spending in predominately minority neighborhoods? Why doesn’t the GOP CAMPAIGN in minority neighborhoods??If you noted the election of Michael Steele as RNC Chairman….and his subsequent loss to Reince Priebus, the vitriol addressed to Michael Steele spoke VOLUMES!! (Remember, C-SPAN televised it!)
You can’t change if you don’t want to….and so far……the GOP doesn’t want to……….
UGA 1999
December 15th, 2011
3:00 pm
HDB….who says that the GOP ignores the minorities? The GOP does not promote cutting education, it does promote giving people options when it comes to education. If I were poor and I wanted my kid to attend a private or christian school the GOP would support me receiving a voucher for that education. The governement education system is broke.
The fact is that most democrats only see what they want to see. They believe that by receiving handouts from the government the democrats are helping them. The fact is that mentality is doing nothing more than keeping you in the same situation they are currently in.
Herman Cain said it best. He said the main reason he became a republican was because when other blacks saw that he was educated, spoke well and tended to lean mostly right. His black brothers called him an “Uncle Tom”. That is when he decided he would never vote Democrat again.
See the most racist people towards blacks ARE blacks. They do not like to see a black man, speak well, become educated and promote self responsibility. Then they are called a “House N—- or Uncle Tom”. Before blacks call whites racist they should really look at the climate within their own community.
HDB
December 15th, 2011
3:05 pm
UGA 1999
December 15th, 2011
2:37 pm
Being civil is easy….there’s no reason to bring animus into the discussion; how else do you learn??
Now, back to issues……
1) Abortion: If we need to go into gestational periods, viable births, the LAW, et. al.:
a) Biology determines when a fetus is viable; the law states that it’s a PERSON at BIRTH (save in the point of murdering the mother – infanticide). Prior to viability, it’s the MOTHER’S decision that is paramount. We may disagree that the mother has such a decision…but by LAW, she’s the ONLY one who has the RIGHT to make such!! No one has that right to take that choice away….especially the law!! That’s the conservative approach…….take the law out of my bedroom!!
2) I don’t disagree that the tax laws need revamping…..but those who MAKE more should PAY more!! Why do I pay more in taxes but make less than the millionaire who pays NONE?? The government has functions that it is required to perform…and that takes revenue!!! Who’s got the money…..ain’t poor folk…..and the middle class is diminishing……!!!
3) Marriage comes from Judeo/Christian ideology…..that has been incorporated into SECULAR LAW! The legal aspect of marriage is that it’s a CONTRACT entered into by two legal entities!! Do you have the right to tell two people who desire the benefits of marriage that they can NOT?? Secular law supercedes religious law…why do you thiink that conservatives SCREAM at the idea of Sharia Law in the US???
4) Note what I said….FORCING religion on the populace!! There is no law abridging the right of religion against ANYONE…..but the law also doesn’t allow one religion to supercede the other!! Everyone is free to practice their religion as they desire (within limits!)….but no one has the right to superimpose their religion on anyone!! It’s NOT a crime for Muslim women to cover their faces in public….but in certain situations, there have been issues (banks, primarily). What we as a nation have to do is to understand the differences…..and develop a tolerance….and work towards a compromise!! The US is a multi-ethnic, multi-religious nation; note that Thomas Jefferson had a quran in the White House………
UGA 1999
December 15th, 2011
3:16 pm
HDB…..
1. Abortion – So you are saying you are against late term abortions? I know what the LAW says, but that doesnt mean that it is morally or ethically correct. Remember that was the original phrase “morally or ethically” that was responding to.
2. Typically those who make more DO pay more. Yes there are exceptions. Also when you say more are you referring to a particular dollar amount or are you referring to a percentage?
3. Again, I do not disagree. However we were discussing morals and ethics.
4. Actually I believe you are a little mistaken. Case in point. I was in a restaurant with a buddy of mine that just retired from Dekalb County Police Department. At about midnight a man walked into the bar wearing a full face motorcycle helmet. My friend had his pistol in his shorts. He stood up, walked over to the man and grabbed his arm and asked him to step outside. It is ILLEGAL to cover your face in any public setting. Muslim or not. Yes, you can bring up Halloween and there have been exceptions made to the law regarding that as well.
HDB
December 15th, 2011
3:24 pm
UGA 1999
December 15th, 2011
3:00 pm
“….who says that the GOP ignores the minorities?”
First…the GOP itself!! Note the lack of minority delegates at any GOP Convention
Second: Note to lack of campaigning in minority neighborhoods
Third: Note the lack of addressing minority issues
Fourth: Note the focusing against minorities by law (SB 1070, for instance)
Vouchers are nothing but a methodology of diverting funding from public education to provate education. Private education has the option to discriminate, whereas public education MUST educate the masses!! The cost of attending private school is prohibitive to the preponderance of the public sector……plus private schools don’t have the capacity to handle the masses. As a product of public education, I see that there are good schools…and bad ones! What needs to be done is have a consistent funding source for education, enforce some guidelines, quit teaching to the TEST, but teach the CURRICULUM, have alternatives for those where the SCHOOL ENVIRONMENT doesn’t work.
The only thing I’ve ever asked for was an EQUAL OPPORTUNITY as my contemporaries….and in my lifetime, I’ve progressed under Democratic Administrations….and regressed under Republicans! I don’t ask for handouts…just fair consideration when I’ve applied for employment!!
It’s not the fact that being educated and successful is what branded Herman Cain as an “Uncle Tom”; many from Morehouse that I know have expressly said that Cain didn’t absorb what Benjamin E. Mays and MLK tried to instill in Morehouse men: success AND service. If you have the “I got mine, you get yours” attitude, forget where you came from, kowtow to a group that many feel does NOT have your interest at heart…..then you open yourself up to such!!
This statement of your I MUST take issue with: “See the most racist people towards blacks ARE blacks. They do not like to see a black man, speak well, become educated and promote self responsibility. Then they are called a “House N—- or Uncle Tom”. Before blacks call whites racist they should really look at the climate within their own community.”
In the environment I was raised, we believed in self-responsibility and education was PARAMOUNT!! The problem is thay when a black man does accomplish such, many (note I said many, not ALL) tend to denigrate such experience and capability UNLESS he kowtows to the “conservative” line!! To be blunt: my mother didn’t teach me how to kiss someone’s @$$….and I’m too old to learn!! Those strong-willed black men are first put down in white society…..then also put down in the ‘hood!! If you HONESTLY though Herman Cain or Clarence Thomas are indicative of what back men can be…..you need to get out more and see those men like the 100 Black Men of Atlanta…..so some of my classmates from the Class of ‘70!!
We can spot racism…from BOTH sides of the equation……problem is: which side has the GREATER power!!!
HDB
December 15th, 2011
3:32 pm
UGA 1999
December 15th, 2011
3:16 pm
OK…let’s go further:
“1. Abortion – So you are saying you are against late term abortions? I know what the LAW says,”
Personally, yes……but I can NOT take that right from someone who desires to exercise that right!! It’s not MY place to place MY value system on someone else!!
“2. Typically those who make more DO pay more. Yes there are exceptions. Also when you say more are you referring to a particular dollar amount or are you referring to a percentage? ”
Percentage — the Clinton tax rates were just fine with me…….
3) Morals and Ethics: Again, what gives you the right to place your moral/ethical code on someone? If that other person’s code crosses the LEGAL line, THEN there are issues….and then the LAW must be observed!!
4) The law is different in every state…….there are many where a Muslim covering her face is legal (Michigan is one with a LARGE Muslim population, ans they are accommodated!). In the South, it wouldn’t surprise me…………
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 15th, 2011
3:42 pm
The Lack and Absence of Moral Principles by the Republicans: You DID NOT DENY being a FAKE BLOGGER EITHER!
————
Can someone translate this into English for me? Thanks.
MarkV
December 15th, 2011
3:44 pm
UGA 1999 @2:02 pm: “ MarkV….here is a more clear definition….”
What is your point? I can find many other definitions. I submitted one that is succinct, correct and suitable for the purpose of the post.
“NOW, you made a point about the ownership and distribution of property. Would you not consider your earnings “property”?”
I am not going to waste time playing word games with you. If you have an argument to present, do it.
sonria
December 15th, 2011
3:55 pm
This whole post and comment thread is perfect evidence of why we need to kick all the politicians out of Washington, enact MEANINGFUL campaign finance reform (beginning with an end to corporate “personhood”) and start again. The government can be ours if we want it to be.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 15th, 2011
4:07 pm
A corporation isn’t a person, jackwagon, any more than a labor union is a person. They are made up of people. Citizens United, for example, is a group of people who made a movie, a movie that some fascist control freaks didn’t like, and tried to ban. The Supreme Court rightly corrected that for us.
Jefferson
December 15th, 2011
4:12 pm
Paper route = small business
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 15th, 2011
4:19 pm
“3) Morals and Ethics: Again, what gives you the right to place your moral/ethical code on someone?”
———
Democrats do it all the time. What motivates their desire for more and more generous handout programs if not for their twisted moral code?
Hypocrite.
Jefferson
December 15th, 2011
4:25 pm
lemonade stand = small business
Acer706
December 15th, 2011
4:40 pm
The GOP ignores minorities?
The Civial Rights Movement was born a Republican Movement.
Dusty
December 15th, 2011
5:05 pm
Well, I just read two interesting headlines in the news .
The reports say that Newt is not going to conduct a sling-the-sludge campaign. That ought to be a pledge from all politicians although they might die from withdrawal symptoms.
Second headline: Taxpayers do not want their taxes increased.! Is anybody surprised by that? Yes. Democrats do not understand that principle.
Maybe if we tax Dems more than others they might get in the groove!. They had rather ransack the rich in their wealth envy. Too bad that idea has gone beserk in many countries that tried it resulting in failure with Russia being the best example.
I really like living in a grand democratic republic and I do not like people who try to make it something else.
Jefferson
December 15th, 2011
5:06 pm
GOP = Union
Michael H. Smith
December 15th, 2011
5:15 pm
Gee, Kyle, you didn’t question why the Democrats want to cut “payroll taxes” instead of “income taxes”.
Hmmm… I don’t think the answer falls in the category of yesterday’s so-called “right kind of class warfare”? Perhaps it is like more “wrong headed welfare”?
Dusty
December 15th, 2011
5:25 pm
Right, Jefferson.
GOP=union of the people of the USA. Dems are part or that union too but they keep trying to CHANGE it Decrease the rights of the rich. Increase taxes. Slam the military. Act like other countries are better. Refuse to accept the laws of the nation (immigration).
See what I mean? “Somebody” is dragging their feet in this union and it is not Republicans. .
michelle
December 15th, 2011
5:25 pm
HDB you make some solid insights, but you expect far too much from your fellow trolls. You simply use too many words. The average mutant on this comment board can barely read a tweet-length comment, yet you offer war and peace.. You’re great at focusing on the issues at hand. Simply reduce the # of words and you just might get through the fog.
I offer this little technique that has helped thousands of people write: do a first draft. delete. second draft. delete it all. third draft…ditto…fourth….same…fifth…repeat…..then go stick your head in the toilet.
What will emerge from that experience, sir, is a comment so readable and entertaining and informative and yes even sexy, that you will go viral. This I promise you, kind sir. We need more minds like yours. We must have more.
If not, we’re finished not only as a nation but as a society of laws and customs and shared history, and that’s as close to the truth as anyone can come. I bid you a fond adieux.
Michael H. Smith
December 15th, 2011
5:31 pm
Good luck on that pledge Dusty. If Newt does get the GOP nod, the Dems will definitely make it about his personal failings because they can’t run on obumer’s record. In fact, obumer and the Dems must run from their record of failures over the past three, going on four years. The blame someone and something else game won’t work anymore.
Americans are saying what did you do to make it better over the past four years Obama, as they hear the voice of Ronald Reagan asking in that background, “Are you better off today than you were four years ago?”
To the unemployed the answer is no. To those of us who’ve felt the brunt of inflation due to the trillions in new government debt, the answer is no as well.
redneckbluedog
December 15th, 2011
5:32 pm
LAST..!!!!!
Good job on the defense bill…$662B…That is a little less than last year…No need for cuts, at least until the triggers hit…A good freeze…Also read up on the payroll tax bill…Sounds like it’s just a matter of time..Doctors will be the one’s getting the stiff…and those making over $80,000…could be better…We’ll see
Dusty
December 15th, 2011
5:33 pm
You are not playing by your own rules, Michelle. Drop by again some time after you’ve stuck your head in the toilet (rule #6)..
redneckbluedog
December 15th, 2011
5:40 pm
Dusty
December 15th, 2011
5:25 pm
—————————————
Please tell us all a little more about the “rights of the rich”, there, Ivanishvili…….
JDW
December 15th, 2011
5:53 pm
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the Public Treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the Public Treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy always followed by dictatorship.
- Alexander Fraser Tyler,’The Decline and Fall of the Athenian Republic’
Psst…that extends to people that vote themselves tax breaks. You doubt? Revenues are at 14.4% of GDP last time they were lower was 1943. On the other hand expenses are at 23.3%, the highest they have been…
Wonder who the Dictator will be?
MarkV
December 15th, 2011
6:09 pm
“Taxpayers do not want their taxes increased.! Is anybody surprised by that? Yes. Democrats do not understand that principle.”
Nobody wants taxes increased, Democrats just as much as Republicans, Libertarians, even members of the United States Marijuana Party (yes, it does exist) and other organized or not organized groups. Most of those people also realize that taxes are the price we pay for living in a civilized society. The main contention is about who should pay how much.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 15th, 2011
6:12 pm
“that extends to people that vote themselves tax breaks”
————————
Only if you believe all income belongs to the government, as communists do.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 15th, 2011
6:14 pm
Nobody wants taxes increased, Democrats just as much as Republicans.
———————–
Excellent. Let’s get on with reducing the spending to close Obozo’s trillion-dollar deficits.
ragnar danneskjold
December 15th, 2011
6:26 pm
Dear redneckblue @ 2″07, you have placed yourself into a loser-box, not that that is anything unusual for leftists. Either the massive constraints the leftist placed on the US economy effectively constrain, or they don’t. If they constrain, I am right about the effect on the economy and you are wrong. If they do not constrain, they are mere waste and deserve to be eliminated.
redneckbluedog
December 15th, 2011
6:45 pm
ragnar danneskjold
December 15th, 2011
6:26 pm
——————————–
Doesn’t matter if you’re right or not…Your still a crybaby….When my division went in to Iraq in ‘92…it was hot, dusty, and windy.Nobody cried or whined..because we had a job to do…That’s why you’ll never be successful…You’re not even in the same ballpark with the people who come up with the ideas, do the work, and pay the bills…I could CARE LESS about regulations, SarbOx, and Glass-Steagall…because I obey the law, play within the rules, and have the ability to win with the hand I’m dealt…..
redneckbluedog
December 15th, 2011
6:48 pm
MarkV
December 15th, 2011
6:09 pm
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Yep….The playing field should be level….and conservatives, plutocrats, fascists, and neocons cry and moan and groan and complain about that…until the opportunity comes…Then watch them cry and moan and groan and complain about how the field should not be level…That’s how we got here to this point to begin with….