2012 Tuesday: One case (sort of) for Mitt Romney
Here is a case for Mitt Romney, albeit one I don’t expect his campaign to make. And make note of this caveat from the beginning: This post is not an endorsement, only food for thought.
We all know by now one of the conservative knocks on Romney: When campaigning for offices in Massachusetts, he often professed squishy-to-outright-liberal positions on such issues as abortion, guns, gay rights, taxes and immigration, only later to adopt far more conservative positions on those same issues once he decided to run for president. Reverse course on one issue — as Ronald Reagan did regarding abortion — and you can claim a genuine change of heart. Do it on a number of issues, and you get labeled an untrustworthy flip-flopper.
We also know by now one of the other other conservative knocks on Romney: While serving as governor and working with a liberal legislature, he actually acted on some of these squishy-to-outright-liberal positions. His health reform is of course the most prominent example. (Spare me the talking point that some conservatives once favored an individual mandate to purchase health insurance; every time Romney describes his reform as something that was “right for Massachusetts” and still popular there, he is acknowledging that, on the whole, it was a liberal reform for a liberal state.)
So, from a purely cynical standpoint: If the argument is that conservatives can’t trust Romney because he once advocated liberal positions, shouldn’t we also consider that he did act on those liberal positions — and might also be likely to act, alongside a conservative Congress, on the conservative positions he now advocates?
In other words, if we assume Romney will say anything to get elected — and then do what he said so that he can be re-elected — why not assume he will act mostly conservatively if elected president?
Again, that’s not a very high-minded way to look at him, which is one reason his campaign probably won’t make such a case.
But every time I hear or see people referring to Romney’s flip-flopping, I can’t help but think that he didn’t flip-flop until after he decided to leave state office and run for national office. He essentially did then, in Massachusetts, what he’d said he would do then and there. So, even if you believe Romney speaks and acts only in his electoral self-interest, should you not also believe he will find it in his electoral self-interest to govern conservatively after campaigning as a conservative?
The closest I’ve seen anyone come to making this argument was National Review’s Ramesh Ponnuru in his endorsement of Romney, when he contrasts Romney with Obama rather than with other Republicans:
If Mitt Romney becomes president, he will almost certainly be dealing with John Boehner as speaker of the House and Mitch McConnell as Senate majority leader. While they, too, have their conservative detractors, they are the most conservative congressional leaders Republicans have had in modern times, and they will exert a rightward influence on the Romney administration. If they send him legislation to repeal Obamacare, cut taxes, or reform entitlements, he will sign it where Obama would veto it. If at some other point in his presidency a liberal-run Congress sends him tax increases, he will veto them where Obama would sign. Compared with President Obama, a President Romney would do more to protect the defense budget.
I see three potential objections to the line of thinking I’ve suggested. The first is very weak: Romney is really a liberal at heart and is just saying conservative things now so that he can get into office and govern liberally. I don’t believe that, and I don’t think many other people do, either. For starters, if Romney’s over-arching goal is to pursue liberal policies, why not wait until after Barack Obama leaves office? (If you believe Romney would be more liberal than Obama, I have nothing to say to you.) And if Romney is really a liberal at heart, why wouldn’t he have run as a Democrat from the get-go, given that he was running in Massachusetts of all places?
The second potential objection is less easily dismissed: In the general election Romney would tack toward the center, thinking there is no situation in which Republicans will abandon him and contribute to Obama’s re-election — and that he will then be more beholden to governing squishily than conservatively. I think Romney would be miscalculating if he believes all that, but I guess it’s possible.
The third potential objection may be the toughest to overcome: Should Congress flip back into totally Democratic hands in, say, 2014, then Romney, lacking a true or strong ideological orientation, will perceive that governing liberally is the best way to win re-election. Now, he would certainly have to expect to be primaried in that event, probably successfully, so I’m not sure he would flip even then. But if you go for the pure electoral self-interest theory, this scenario is at least plausible.
Personally, I don’t think any of those three scenarios is more likely than the case I outlined before them. So, I would expect a Romney nominated by the GOP after campaigning as a conservative to govern like a conservative for the most part — which is as much as can be said for either President Bush, and perhaps a future President Gingrich.
That may not be enough to win him the nomination. And, to reiterate, it’s not enough to win an endorsement from me today. But for those who distrust Romney because of the differences between his words now and his words then, I think it’s worth considering the similarities between his words then and his actions then — and what that may foretell about the impact of his words now.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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200 comments Add your comment
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
12:12 pm
I am not sure if Mitt will get the nod. But if you are looking for someone more “middle of the road” he is your man.
Jefferson
December 13th, 2011
12:15 pm
You seem like a flip flopper to me, who IS your endorsement ?
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
12:16 pm
NOW if we want to talk about a “flip-flopper”, we can certainly look at the last few years with Obama.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
12:16 pm
Jefferson….why do we have to have an endorsement yet?
Jefferson
December 13th, 2011
12:17 pm
Don’t pat yourself on the back, the question is for the author.
Kyle Wingfield
December 13th, 2011
12:18 pm
Jefferson: When I make up my mind, y’all will be the first to know.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
12:20 pm
Jefferson…..I wonder why you are so defensive??
Jefferson
December 13th, 2011
12:21 pm
Kyle, how much more to you have to know ?
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
12:22 pm
“Kyle, how much more to you have to know?” WHAT?!?!?!?!
redneckbluedog
December 13th, 2011
12:35 pm
Heh, heh, heh……..Newt Gingrich…Richard Nixon on crack…!!!!…..:-)….
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
12:36 pm
Heh, heh,heh…….Obama………Hitler on meth.!!!!
Lee Weber
December 13th, 2011
12:37 pm
Kyle, good post.
Like you, I don’t yet have a horse in the race, but I see Romney’s changes in positions are of two types. One, positions he took (and may have believed) to get elected Gov. of Mass., some of which are not dissimilar to positions that Ronald Reagan took (and may have believed) to get elected Gov. of California.
The second type is a “hey, we thought we’d try it, and it didn’t work,” aka the Mass. health care law.
I quite frankly don’t have a problem with either. Business people do both all the time…I’m more concerned with where they would take us than where they’ve been, and how their personal character affects the nation (and I’m not talking about Newt’s personal life, moreso what the people who worked with him everyday have said and written about him.)
I’m actually kinda hoping for a Huntsman boomlet. It’s his turn. The guy has been more consistently conservative than either Newt or Romney. We don’t have to make up our minds right away. Only about 120 delegates come out of the first three primaries.
4 minutes ago · Like
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 13th, 2011
12:41 pm
Guantanamo Bay: Open for business.
Obozo: flip-flop.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
12:42 pm
Citizen Trials for terrorists……
Obozo – flip-flop
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
12:42 pm
Extending Bush Tax Codes…..
Obozo – flip-flop.
redneckbluedog
December 13th, 2011
12:43 pm
Newt’s inaugaration…Jan. 9, 2013…..
Newt’s impeachment hearings….Jan. 10, 2013……
MARK YOUR CALENDARS…!!!!!
redneckbluedog
December 13th, 2011
12:45 pm
Newt in 2000….”…Working too hard made me cheat on my sick wife…..”
Newt in 2011….”We want to force poor children to work hard”…
I don’t want my kids to turn out to be adulterers..!!!!
Allen
December 13th, 2011
12:48 pm
If we accept the premise that Romney’s main concern is electoral self-interest, he will inevitably disappoint the Republican base.
redneckbluedog
December 13th, 2011
1:00 pm
Lee Weber
December 13th, 2011
12:37 pm
———————————
As a centrist, I could support Huntsman or Paul…that’s it…..too many flies on every one else….Otherwise, it’s re-election time….
Rob Simmonz
December 13th, 2011
1:12 pm
Yes–I think this is a very valid argument and something that has occurred to me as well. Romney could, I think, be controlled by conservatives once elected. There would be no controlling Nutty Newt, though, and because he’s equally as squishy, what’s the point of nominating him? In terms of electability…I can’t conceive of independents embracing a guy as unstable as Gingrich. The late-night comedy writers are already chomping at the bit over the prospect of a Newt nomination. He’d be a laughingtock in short order. Romney would be the wiser choice.
Hillbilly D
December 13th, 2011
1:13 pm
if we assume Romney will say anything to get elected — and then do what he said so that he can be re-elected
In, my lifetime, I’ve only known one or two people who held political office, that didn’t fit that mold. None of them were at the National level.
redneckbluedog
December 13th, 2011
1:26 pm
if we assume Romney will say anything to get elected — and then do what he said so that he can be re-elected
————————————–
A moderate can get votes from the middle for a second term. The Democrats have the moderates now. It would be easy pickin’s to capture right-leaning moderates….Newt ain’t gonna git ‘em…
Dusty
December 13th, 2011
1:27 pm
Kyle,
I don’t think you did Romney any good. Not only indicating flip flopping but spineless also.
Changing your “colors” every time the wind blows does not show leadership. More like follow the crowd.
Thaat’s the thing about Romney. You just never know. He’s conservative now. But, as you said, with a Democratic congress he might be a doormat.
We don’t need any more squishy thinking, political popup, fiscally blind, wet noodle presidents. The present one is more than enough. .
stands for decibels
December 13th, 2011
1:28 pm
Good piece, Kyle.
My only very minor issue: you say
if Romney is really a liberal at heart, why wouldn’t he have run as a Democrat from the get-go, given that he was running in Massachusetts of all places?
His first major political battle was running against Kennedy in 1994. It’s not like a primary challenger would have any chance against the liberal lion so, running as a GOPer was really his only option.
Kyle Wingfield
December 13th, 2011
1:30 pm
Dusty @ 1:27: I definitely don’t expect the Romney team to email my post to all their supporters…
Dusty
December 13th, 2011
1:30 pm
redneckbluedog
If a “moderate” would not vote for Gingrich, he’s not a moderate. He’s a DEMOCRAT.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
1:31 pm
redneck….do you try to be ignorant or are you really just that out of touch?
Kyle Wingfield
December 13th, 2011
1:32 pm
stands @ 1:28: I thought about that. But then, if he were a true-blue liberal, he wouldn’t have wanted to unseat Teddy, would he?
Dusty
December 13th, 2011
1:32 pm
Right, Kyle. I don’t think so either.
Jefferson
December 13th, 2011
1:33 pm
Flavor of the week, nothing to hang your hat on.
Ragnar Danneskjöld
December 13th, 2011
1:33 pm
Good afternoon, good argument. I think Mitt is conservative-lite, not leftist-lite. A second positive, I think – subject to disproof, which I welcome – that all of his flips have been from leftist to conservative. As I believe in the power of redemption, I welcome him from the dark side.
stands for decibels
December 13th, 2011
1:35 pm
But then, if he were a true-blue liberal, he wouldn’t have wanted to unseat Teddy, would he?
Sure. But there’s a world of difference between true-blue Ted Kennedy liberal, and what — dare I say it — GOP voters consider to be “liberal”, in 2011.
Put another way — Republican Edward Brooke (MA senator from 1967-1979) is certainly “liberal” by today’s standards.
Ragnar Danneskjöld
December 13th, 2011
1:35 pm
Dear Kyle, I do not perceive your column as damning with feint praise, lest that was a concern. Think you called it about right. Romney is not the ideal conservative, but he is better than the Occupy Oval Office movement that has so-damaged the country.
JDW
December 13th, 2011
1:36 pm
@UGA 1999…”do you try to be ignorant or are you really just that out of touch?”
Bet he knows UGA is State Chartered and State Funded school….
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
1:37 pm
JDW……Good boy…..that a way to stay on subject and task! Good boy!
JDW
December 13th, 2011
1:42 pm
@SFD..”Sure. But there’s a world of difference between true-blue Ted Kennedy liberal, and what — dare I say it — GOP voters consider to be “liberal”, in 2011.”
Right you are! Goldwater barely measures up to these guys…I wonder if Newt can get more votes than Goldwater?
JDW
December 13th, 2011
1:43 pm
@UGA 1999…”that a way to stay on subject and task”
I thought you had made ignorance the subject…
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
1:50 pm
JDW…..there you go again…….wow you make us laugh! haha.
Mad Max
December 13th, 2011
1:52 pm
My issue with Mitt is I don’t know him. With the others, you get a flovor of what you will get. With Mitt, I don’t know where he will go. I know we need a healer, someone who can work both sides of the aisle to get something done versus what we’ve had for such a long time.
JDW
December 13th, 2011
1:57 pm
@UGA 1999…”wow you make us laugh”
Pssst…we are laughing at you not with you.
Dusty
December 13th, 2011
1:57 pm
Ragnar,
You do have a way with words. For instance:”he (Romney) is better than the Occupy Oval Office movement that has so damaged the country.”
Right! But then again even Blimpy the clown might do better than the present Democrat. At least Blimpy would give us a laugh now and then.
Ernest T. Bass
December 13th, 2011
1:57 pm
Either way with this field in 2012 Obama is a shoe in for re election.
I wont even be close.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
1:57 pm
Mad…that is a great point. I agree. I think Mitt may do a good job of working with both sides.
Ernest T. Bass
December 13th, 2011
1:59 pm
At least Blimpy would give us a laugh now and then.
W gave us allot of them.
Unfortunately he also gave allot of mothers tears when they found out their son or daughter was never coming home.
Did we find those WMD’s yet ???
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
2:00 pm
Ernest…..class act bro…..class act!
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
2:00 pm
That is the EXACT mentality that got most of the Dems kicked out of the house in the last election. Please keep up the good work.
Ernest T. Bass
December 13th, 2011
2:01 pm
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204336104577094773730223212.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
More bad news for the hate America first crowd that is the GOP.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
2:03 pm
Ernest…..funny that is only half of an article…….More half truths from the Dems….thanks for helping prove our point about your lies and half truths.
Dusty
December 13th, 2011
2:06 pm
Mr. Bass,
Do you really like Obama’s actions? I mean the deficit, no budget, the broken promises, the follow up on Bush actions that he said he disliked, the stimulus that did not work, and on & on?
Is it party loyalty or what? I don’t think Obama is a bad man. I think he is not a good leader.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
2:06 pm
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/12/13/swing-state-poll-shows-obamas-narrow-options/
Hey Ernest…..here is one for ya. Obama is trailing BOTH Romney and Newt in the swing states…….C ya Hussein!
gm
December 13th, 2011
2:12 pm
Good old mitt: the same guy who was for the auto be put in bankrupt, I guess that does not mean much to a bunch of rich greedy rep, who familes would have lost their homes and way of living.
Oh, how stupid are the low middle class rep? backing a guy who would bet $10,000 having fun but would let millions of Americans starve and not save the history of the auto in America, oh and lets not talk about Mass, was last next to last in job creation but this guy is a master in job creation.
Rep party middle class get the weine of the year award because they love the rich to stick it to them, ha ha
carlosgvv
December 13th, 2011
2:14 pm
If Romney is elected President, he will govern according to the makeup of the new Congress. Anyone who is willing to flip-flop this much is obsessed with getting power and, once he gets it, he’ll keep it any way necessary.
Dusty
December 13th, 2011
2:15 pm
NO Mr. Bass 1:59
You cannot fall back on Blame Bush. Bush pulled us together after 9/11 and kept our country safe after that. All reports nailed Saddam with weapons of mass destruction. Iraq is now one of the few countries in the Middle East with a democratic government.
You will have to come up with something better than the usual hate Bush propaganda from Democrats. They wore that one out after using it for eight years.
The big problems now are the failing policies of Obama and the deficit raising results. Haven’t you noticed?
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
2:15 pm
Gm……”would let millions of Americans starve”….sounds like they need to get of Welfare and get a job….Oh wait, Mr. Obama, where are the jobs?
You do know that if you work really hard you can be rich too. Maybe then you can afford to take some grammar classes.
Hankie Aron
December 13th, 2011
2:18 pm
Ernest T- I will pray for you.
Hankie Aron
December 13th, 2011
2:20 pm
Folks- remember something rich and poor people both are not the enemy
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
2:21 pm
Hankie…..good point. Thank you.
gm
December 13th, 2011
2:23 pm
UGA 1999
Hey bend over you are the first low middle class who like to take it from the rich, but those people are in unions something hicks like youin Georgia dont understand, do you really think Mitt and Newt care about poor “”"w trash ha, ha.
I want you to drive along rual areas of Georgia and look at some these people living in trailers and on welfare who support Newt and Mitt, no, my friend you are the retard”””
JDW
December 13th, 2011
2:27 pm
@UGA 1999…”Maybe then you can afford to take some grammar classes.”
Good idea…maybe you could recommend a good Private School…
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
2:28 pm
gm…..Dude…..I will put it this way….I am not lower class. You really should know who you are talking to before you make a comment like that.
What is “youin” hahaha
Please keep posting you are cracking me up!!!!!
Elmer Gantry
December 13th, 2011
2:29 pm
Mit makes the presidency fit
for the Pres chair to sit
It is time for Obam to git
He is no dimwit
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
2:29 pm
JDW…..you have yet to mention your institution of education?
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
December 13th, 2011
2:30 pm
Anybody who has never changed their beliefs in the face of maturity, life experiences and new information has no business being an elected official, let alone President.
All you people decrying the flip-flopping aspects of anyone need to put your brains in gear and open your eyes to potentially different possibilities.
man behind the curtain
December 13th, 2011
2:32 pm
Today’s episode of “I Wonder”, Kyle’s exercise in pointless speculation, brought to you by Depends, full to the last drop.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
2:33 pm
Elmer….nice.
There once was a man named Obama
Who’s wife looked like Aunt Jemima
He tried all of the time
To spend all of our dimes
Now he is caught up in the Demoncrat drama
JDW
December 13th, 2011
2:35 pm
@UGA 1999…I have two one of which you constantly devalue.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
2:37 pm
JDW….and that is?
man behind the curtain
December 13th, 2011
2:38 pm
“Who’s wife looked like Aunt Jemima”
How low will you go UGALY? Your degree is showing.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
2:39 pm
Man behind…..haha dude it was a joke. Lighten up.
But you have to admit she kind of does!
MB
December 13th, 2011
2:40 pm
Congratulations young Wingfield, you have reached the conclusion (and the correct one at that) that the only candidate on the GOP stage who stands a snowball’s chance in Hades of unseating President Obama next November is Mitt Romney. So, be good little Republicans and do what daddy Rove says. Hold your noses and check the ballot for Mittens.
man behind the curtain
December 13th, 2011
2:40 pm
Finest first lady since Jackie O. And your jokes are about as funny as you political points are unoriginal.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
2:41 pm
MB……I would be willing to be any of the candidates would beat Obama next year. With every word our of his mouth the noose just gets tighter.
gm
December 13th, 2011
2:42 pm
UGA 1999
You are not in the 1%, you just love the weine dont you by rich? do you really believe we are going to elect a man like Newt to represent America? with no moral or family values, we will be the country of hypocristy around the world.
Obama will win hand down, wants all the bigots and haters think about it”””’
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
2:42 pm
Man behind…..finest first lady since Jackie O……wow I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder!! haha.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
2:43 pm
man behind…..did you hear that the Zac Brown Band invited Obama on stage to sing “Chicken Fried” and Obama declined,…..I wonder why?
man behind the curtain
December 13th, 2011
2:45 pm
“With every word our of his mouth the noose just gets tighter.”
Now your real sentiments are being revealed. And the real reason for your hatred of the President.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
December 13th, 2011
2:45 pm
Don’t know in what context “finest first lady” is being used, but the best First Lady since Jackie Kennedy was, and remains, Barbara Bush.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
2:46 pm
man behind……And what is that?
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
December 13th, 2011
2:47 pm
UGA 1999, there is no call to go down that particular road. Take the high road on this and stick to the issues.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
2:47 pm
Tiberius…..Amen, I met her in Atlanta about a year ago and she is absolutely amazing.
Kyle Wingfield
December 13th, 2011
2:47 pm
MB @ 2:40: That’s your conclusion, not mine.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
December 13th, 2011
2:50 pm
Great article on the meaning of state polls vs. national polls and looking at the Electoral College when trying to handicap the upcoming race.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/dec/11/curl-election-2012-by-the-numbers-take-2/?page=all
Road Scholar
December 13th, 2011
2:50 pm
“(Spare me the talking point that some conservatives once favored an individual mandate to purchase health insurance; ..”
Accurate history’s a b!tch, ain’t it Kyle!
“If Mitt Romney becomes president, he will almost certainly be dealing with John Boehner as speaker of the House and Mitch McConnell as Senate majority leader.’
WHOA! What’s all the talk from conservatives on term limits??? Only if it fulfills Repubs desires, Kyle?
“..tack to the center..” Hasn’t Romney tacked to the center, then right, then left, then center, etc.? He should have been a slolum skier!
Kyle, have you seen the interview Huntsman did on the View today? He was good! Very good!
man behind the curtain
December 13th, 2011
2:51 pm
Barb really is fine. Love white hair on older women.
Road Scholar
December 13th, 2011
2:53 pm
UGA 1999:”Heh, heh,heh…….Obama………Hitler on meth.!!!!”
Your fat Albert imitation is poor, but not as bad as your statement! Obama? Hitler? Give me a break!
Ernest T. Bass
December 13th, 2011
2:54 pm
Hey Ernest…..here is one for ya. Obama is trailing BOTH Romney and Newt in the swing states…….C ya Hussein!
LOL a Fox News poll huh. LOL
Question for you guys.
Why do Republicans hate America so much they want to see it fail ?
I say love it or leave it. If you don’t love America you can go some where else.
Delta is ready when you are.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
2:56 pm
Ernest…..sorry dude, we dont want to see America fail and honestly I dont want to see Obama fail. But his policies and ideas are toxic to America. We are just trying to save it. The election results from the house show that the Dems are out of touch with America. They will be magnified in 2012.
Jefferson
December 13th, 2011
2:56 pm
For those unhappy with the president, you can only blame yourself for supporting an administration that ran the country so far into a ditch he could be elected, you could have voted for Hillary as was the only viable option. You have nobody to blame but yourself.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
2:56 pm
Hey Road…why do you not copy and paste the entire post. Oh more half truths from the left. Lies Lies Lies.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
2:58 pm
Jefferson…..Bush’s term was over you tard. And McCain didnt stand a chance. Although looking back we should have voted for him, with Palin or without her.
Clinton would be a MUCH more viable candidate that Obama!! I would take her any day over this mess.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
December 13th, 2011
2:58 pm
“Why do Republicans hate America so much they want to see it fail ?”
Why do liberals like Ernest T. Bass fall back on this nonsense when they have nothing to argue with facts?
Ernest T. Bass
December 13th, 2011
2:59 pm
Thirty-two of the thirty-three developed nations have universal health care, with the United States being the lone exception
Ask yourself this. All they all wrond and we are the only ones that are right ??
And if so why do they get better results than we do ?
Why do they have longer life expectancy and lower rates of diabetes and heart disease. ?
Im not for Universal Healthcare because Obama says so.
I just look at the numbers and it seems like a no brainer to me.
gm
December 13th, 2011
3:01 pm
Any one notice under this great President in the last 3 years there have been no Americans taken hostage or killed while over seas, under GW Americans were being killed ever week.
Thanks Obama for keeping Americans safe around the world with your class and grace, why would we want to go back to John Wane mentality and get our people killed, oh I forgot when you have people never been out of the athens or Macon this is no big deal.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:02 pm
Enest……Then why do SO many from other countries come to America for their health needs? I have never heard of someone from America flying to France for a medical procedure. America has the best access to healthcare in the world.
What is “wrond”??
Why do they have longer life expectancy and lower rates of diabetes and heart disease……Please site specifics! You cant!
Are you used to “no brainer” decisions?
HDB
December 13th, 2011
3:02 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
December 13th, 2011
2:58 pm
“Why do Republicans hate America so much they want to see it fail ?”
“Why do liberals like Ernest T. Bass fall back on this nonsense when they have nothing to argue with facts?”
Maybe because prominent CONSERVATIVES publically stated such!
Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, Krauthammer, et. al.
Maybe becaue prominent REPUBLICANS have ACTED as such!!
Boehner, McConnell, Ryan, Kasich, Walker (Wisconsin), Scott (Florida)……..
The evidence is there…..and speaks volumes!!!
Ernest T. Bass
December 13th, 2011
3:05 pm
But his policies and ideas are toxic to America
Actually they aren’t.
When you follow the worst President in the history of the country its going to take a little time to turn all that bad momentum around.
People conveniently forget that the economy was in free fall when Obama took over.
Unfortunately 8 years of failed policies cant be overturned overnight.
As far as the election in 2012 goes.
Obama is going to win easy against Newt. Wont even be close.
Romney would have a chance but he isn’t a far right nutcase which means he wont get the nomination.
These guys are allot better at predicting elections.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_gingrich_vs_obama-1453.html
Road Scholar
December 13th, 2011
3:05 pm
“Hey Road…why do you not copy and paste the entire post.”
Because I noticed when you read , your lips move! I didn’t want you to get motion sickness! Oh, and by the way, doesn’t a ? usually end a sentence that is a question?
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
December 13th, 2011
3:06 pm
HDB, manufactured evidence is not evidence.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:06 pm
GM…..are you serious!!?!?!?!? Good Lord you are a fool. Can you say that was the prime of the Iraqi war. I guess the Iran Hostage Crisis in 1981 was Bush’s fault too??
Odis
December 13th, 2011
3:07 pm
Romney has no core and no soul.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:07 pm
Road…..I am guessing you are not a Road Scholar. Sentences can begin with Why and not be a question. I was making a point that all of you Dems are the same and only spew lies and half truths. I won.
Ernest T. Bass
December 13th, 2011
3:09 pm
Then why do SO many from other countries come to America for their health needs? I
They don’t. Thats a myth.
In fact far more Americans leave for healthcare elsewhere.
Ill give you a real world example. Many friends along the USA Canadian border get married not out of love. They do so out of necessity.
Because they know it will give them Canadian citizenship and healthcare and they can be treated.
I have a friend whose wife is Canadian.
He has stated many times and is telling the truth that if he gets really sick it is very assuring knowing he can go to Canada and have his life saved without bankrupting his family.
AGAIN THE WHOLE PEOPLE FROM EVERYWHERE COME TO AMERICA FOR HEALTHCARE IS A MYTH.
IT DOESN’T HAPPEN.
They only exceptions are the super wealthy from other nations who can afford expensive procedures that are done here because of our advanced technology.
HDB
December 13th, 2011
3:09 pm
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:02 pm
Actually, there IS proof that life expectancies are LONGER in nations with universal health care!!
Non-US Average Life Expectancy: 78.4 years
US Average Life Expectancy: 76.7
Granted, there are other factors that are taken in to account….but the evidence is there!!
(I did read all of the article….so I do understand that the author discounts the metrics!!)
http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA547ComparativeHealth.html
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:09 pm
Ernest….hahah….www.realclearpolitics.com ahahahahaha
Jesse Jackson Jr.’s favorite news source….I wonder why….hahahahahaha
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
December 13th, 2011
3:10 pm
Ernest T. Bass, some day you may wish to undertake a course on statistical analysis regading health care comparison.
Needless to say, the statistics the left keeps citing are an apples to oranges comparison between the U.S. and “the rest of the world” when it comes to life expectancy and health. Ours is a result of a free society, by and large, while theirs is a much more controlled environment.
I’ll take my freedom for a shorter life span any day of the week. However, if you desire a longer life span, Delta is ready when YOU are.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:12 pm
Ernest….prove it. You are so full of crap. How do you believe half of what you are saying. The only part of your post that is somewhat accurate is the fact that prescription drugs in Canada are about 80-90% less expensive in Canda but the healthcare is no where near what our is.
Here is some proof for you…..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
December 13th, 2011
3:12 pm
People come to America for health care for the better quality.
People who go to other countries from America sacrifice quality for a lower cost.
Both sides do so for valid reasons.
HDB
December 13th, 2011
3:13 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
December 13th, 2011
3:06 pm
If the evidence is manufactured, it’s the CONSERVATIVES that manufactured it….by SAYING what they SAID!!
Here’s Limbaugh SAYING it!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgKCWt7jrrc
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:14 pm
HDB….then what is your explanation for blacks having a lower LER than whites?
Black male: 69.8 years
White male: 75.7 years
Black female: 76.5 years
White female: 80.8 years
Ernest T. Bass
December 13th, 2011
3:15 pm
Again every 1st world country has Universal Health Care except one.
The USA.
Are you saying they are all wrong and we are right ?
Ernest T. Bass
December 13th, 2011
3:16 pm
Actually, there IS proof that life expectancies are LONGER in nations with universal health care!!
Republicans never were big on proof and facts.
Remember W. He thought with his gut and was the decider.
Either way they aren’t going to let silly things like facts get in the way of their agenda.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:16 pm
Ernest….Yes….and nearly every America doctor would agree.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:17 pm
Ernest….still waiting for that proof….haha.
Ernest T. Bass
December 13th, 2011
3:18 pm
Funniest thing was Rush saying if Universal Health Care passed he was going to Costa Rica for health care.
Costa Rica has Universal Heath Care.
It just shows how painfully uninformed they are on this subject.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:18 pm
The United States ranks 36th out of 194 countries.
HDB
December 13th, 2011
3:20 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
December 13th, 2011
3:10 pm
“Needless to say, the statistics the left keeps citing are an apples to oranges comparison between the U.S. and “the rest of the world” when it comes to life expectancy and health. Ours is a result of a free society, by and large, while theirs is a much more controlled environment.”
Not really…..universal health care is a part of the social CONTRACT that those nations have written for their government to follow; also note that Theodore Roosevelt AND FDR wanted to expand the US social contract to CREATE a universal health care system…..but the FOR-PROFIT motive countermanded that idea!The US has a more Darwinian environment……IMHO…….
It seems that overseas, the more CONSERVATIVE position is to preserve life as much as possible….from cradle to grave whereas the American conservative position is to protect life BEFORE birth…and screw it afterwards………
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:20 pm
Ernest….Costa Rica is great, been there several times. But it is not just the healthcare that is the draw. They welcome American retirees.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
December 13th, 2011
3:21 pm
HDB, at some point in your posting lifetime, you’re really going to have to pay attention to what others post. I don’t know if I’ll live long enough to see it, but I hope so.
First, the original issue was why do liberals constantly feel that the GOP hates America simply because they don’t like the current Disaster-in-Chief’s POLICIES?
Look, I know there are people who don’t like him for who he is, but they are far fewer than your views represent. But people don’t like him because he’s been a Socialist-leaning, ineffective, leaderless neophyte adrift in the sea of global economics and foreign policy.
Stop trying to assign anything other than a difference of opinion into something hateful. It is distasteful, dishonest, and adds nothing to a national debate on ISSUES.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:21 pm
BTW guys….who said the Republicans are against universal healthcare?
Ernest T. Bass
December 13th, 2011
3:22 pm
Ernest….Yes….and nearly every America doctor would agree.
Not the ones ive talked to.
They all admit our system is broken and needs a major overhaul.
But by all means lets keep spending more and getting terrible results.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
December 13th, 2011
3:24 pm
“Are you saying they are all wrong and we are right ?”
What part of “I’ll take my freedom over a shorter life span” do you NOT understand, Ernest T. Bass?
Yes, the restrictions on freedom they have to live with in order to achieve that slightly longer life span is wrong, and our model of more freedom than they have is right.
man behind the curtain
December 13th, 2011
3:24 pm
UGA 1999: A small man’s complex with a small, petty mind. Maybe he’ll grow someday.
Ernest T. Bass
December 13th, 2011
3:25 pm
FOX News 12/5 – 12/7 911 RV 46 40 Obama +6 vs Gingrich
FOX News 12/5 – 12/7 911 RV 44 42 Obama +2 vs Romney
Obama is winning in both FOX NEWS polls.
If he is winning in a fox news poll then you know it is real bad for the other side.
gobucks
December 13th, 2011
3:25 pm
Ann Coulter suggested the same thing as Kyle in an interview with Hannity. She basically stated that since he was a flip-flopper, Mitt was the preferred leading candidate because the conservatives could mold him. Newt couldn’t be molded because he is too entrenched in his positions which sometimes are and sometimes not conservative. Yes, she stated that she was looking for a piece of clay for president. You however are suggesting something slightly different, that he isn’t clay to be molded by conservatives, but clay to be molded by whatever will get him elected which just happens to be conservative ideals.
Either way, you are getting a piece of clay with really nice hair for president. Good luck with that.
Hillbilly D
December 13th, 2011
3:25 pm
in the last 3 years there have been no Americans taken hostage or killed while over seas,
Scott Adam, Jean Adam, Shane Bauer, Sarah Shourd, Joshua Fattal, Bob Levinson, Kevin Lunsmann, Warren Weinstein, Phyllis Mackay, Bob Riggle……….
Ernest T. Bass
December 13th, 2011
3:26 pm
Yes, the restrictions on freedom
Please site restrictions on freedom Canadians live under.
HDB
December 13th, 2011
3:28 pm
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:14 pm
Good question…here’s my answer!
1) Crime – Greatest cause of death in black males 18-25 — HOMICIDE
Politics of division – “moochers” rather than “survivors”……
2) Economics – Black per capita income is 68% of white per capita income
3) Genetics – Blacks and Italians are the only people with the sickle cell trait, more suseptible to diseases like diabetes and hypertension
4) Access to Health Care — lack of access due to economic reasons
5) Diet — because of economic disparities, diet based on mainly carbs and fat versus lean meats and vegetables
6) Shopping habits – lack of access to FRESH vegetables and fruits in many black neighborhoods
7) “Bad Habits” – smoking, drinking, pharmaceutical abuse
9) Fear of doctors and the medical system
There’re many reasons…..but if there WERE a universal system in the US….the rates would increase!!
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
December 13th, 2011
3:30 pm
Ernest T. Bass, they do not live under a Constitution as we do. They have more restrictive traffic laws (and yes, ALL deaths are factored into the equation on statistics used to show longer life span, including accidental death), they do not have our drug and alcohol policies / problems.
All these factor into the freedom equation, and the rest of the world is largely lacking in that side of the house. To live on average another year? Nope, not for me.
Ernest T. Bass
December 13th, 2011
3:30 pm
For every Republican who doesn’t want Universal Healthcare I only say this.
Give up your medicare and medicaid as well.
We might as well go all the way huh.
But they don’t want to give that up.
So Government Healthcare is ok for some but not for others….
Right ……
Ernest T. Bass
December 13th, 2011
3:32 pm
Ernest T. Bass, they do not live under a Constitution as we do. They have more restrictive traffic laws (and yes, ALL deaths are factored into the equation on statistics used to show longer life span, including accidental death), they do not have our drug and alcohol policies / problems.
Thanks you proved my point.
Basically they don’t have any restrictions on their freedoms any different than we do.
More restrictive traffic laws …. LOL. I almost fell out of my chair.
Thats the best you got. LOL
Hilarious. You cant make this stuff up.
I gotta get a screenshot of this and email it around.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
December 13th, 2011
3:33 pm
Ernest T. bass, once again, national polls, no matter who runs them, are MEANINGLESS in an election debate.
State-by-state polls are more accurate all the time, but even they can’t tell the whole story until a nominee is chosen by the GOP, as people will still cling to their favorite until all others have been eliminated.
The only people receiving any benefit from these polls are the pollsters who charge for their work.
TruthBe
December 13th, 2011
3:33 pm
Anybody but the Muslim Liberal Communist Liar Obama in 2012. This time we should make the mainstreet media vent Obama and his history. Like for example they speak of Gringrich’s affairs, at least they were with women. Can’t say the same about Obama. When Obama had a homosexual encounter with Larry Sinclair in a limo ride in 2004 Chicago during his Senate Campaign where he back stabed his mentor for her Senate seat. Obama was married to Michelle at the time.Obama and his liberal/communist administration must go. Anybody but Obama in 2012.
HDB
December 13th, 2011
3:33 pm
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:21 pm
“BTW guys….who said the Republicans are against universal healthcare?”
Most of the politicval ones……decrying it as a GOVERNMENT takeover!! Many forget that it was THEODORE ROOSEVELT who championed universal health care in the early-20th Century!!
Ernest T. Bass
December 13th, 2011
3:34 pm
FOX News 12/5 – 12/7 911 RV 46 40 Obama +6 vs Gingrich
FOX News 12/5 – 12/7 911 RV 44 42 Obama +2 vs Romney
Obama is winning in both FOX NEWS polls.
Any explanation for that ?
TruthBe
December 13th, 2011
3:35 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4Oo1MGF8c8&feature=endscreen&NR=1
Obama the homosexual.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
December 13th, 2011
3:35 pm
Ernest T. Bass, I’d give up my Medicare and Medicaid (once I’m old enough for it) if you’ll stop taking the money out of my paycheck to fund it.
And laugh all you will, but you obviously have nothing to counter my argument about freedom, do you?
Rival
December 13th, 2011
3:36 pm
“Spare me the talking point that some conservatives once favored an individual mandate to purchase health insurance…’
That tree is not a tree. It is a corkscrew. Because I just said so.
michele
December 13th, 2011
3:36 pm
Caveat? Kyle, you use that word a lot. I don’t think it means what you think it means.
moron.
Ernest T. Bass
December 13th, 2011
3:36 pm
Ernest T. bass, once again, national polls, no matter who runs them, are MEANINGLESS in an election debate.
They are MEANINGLESS when they don’t produce a result you like.
Something tells me if Obama were losing in those polls they would be perfectly legit to you.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
December 13th, 2011
3:36 pm
HDB, Teddy Roosevelt was a Republican in name only. He certainly was no conservative.
TruthBe
December 13th, 2011
3:37 pm
More Obama stuff if you want it.
http://www.larrysinclair.org/
Ernest T. Bass
December 13th, 2011
3:38 pm
And laugh all you will, but you obviously have nothing to counter my argument about freedom, do you?
Yes I do.
Canadians are just as free as we are. Maybe more so.
I challenge you to call a Canadian and ask them if they feel repressed by the Government and do they wish they could get to the USA where they would finally be free.
You wont do it because they would laugh in your face.
Kyle Wingfield
December 13th, 2011
3:39 pm
Tiberius @ 2:50: Yep, and we’re rapidly approaching the point where national polls for the primary are meaningless, too.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:39 pm
I wonder how quickly the fools on the left would still cry out for universal healthcare if their tax bill went up 25%. Oh or do you want the “evil rich” to pay for your healthcare too? MOOCHERS!
Kyle Wingfield
December 13th, 2011
3:40 pm
Road @ 2:50: I don’t get your term limits reference here. And, as per usual, I missed The View today. Sorry.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:41 pm
Ernest…..”Canadians are just as free as we are. Maybe more so”….Really? Go try to buy a gun or carry a concealed weapon in Canada and see what happens!
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:42 pm
Hey Ernest…..go try to get a same day abortion in Canada.
Kyle Wingfield
December 13th, 2011
3:42 pm
Jefferson @ 2:56: The Republicans who supported Bush should have voted for Hillary in the Democratic primary? You’re making even less sense than usual today.
Ernest T. Bass
December 13th, 2011
3:43 pm
I wonder how quickly the fools on the left would still cry out for universal healthcare if their tax bill went up 25%
Actually Universal healthcare costs less so I would expect a net gain in in that area.
We spend more but get less results.
Countries with Universal Healthcare spend less and get better results.
This stuff isn’t real complicated.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:43 pm
Ernest….also look at the immigration versus emmigration numbers for Canada and the US.
This is what I mean, if you guys would actually read before you post silly comments you may think twice before hitting the “submit” comment.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
December 13th, 2011
3:44 pm
Ernest T. Bass, traffic deaths are 12.3 per capita in the U.S, 9.4 for Canada.
And you can’t say they have better roads than we do, because they don’t.
Nice try on your part (well, not really).
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:44 pm
Ernest….Universal Healthcare costs less…..HAHAHA OMG REALLY!?!?! THIS IS GREAT! hahahaah
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:45 pm
Tiberius…..isnt it amazing?
Ernest T. Bass
December 13th, 2011
3:46 pm
Really? Go try to buy a gun or carry a concealed weapon in Canada and see what happens!
huh ? Canadians have guns everywhere.
Anyone can get a gun in Canada.
They do require you go through safety training ( imagine that ) and a few more checks but its not that big a deal.
Canada is full of hunters with tons of guns.
HDB
December 13th, 2011
3:47 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
December 13th, 2011
3:36 pm
“HDB, Teddy Roosevelt was a Republican in name only. He certainly was no conservative”
Methinks, Teddy Roosevelt was more of a VISIONARY than the cast of characters that are presently on display in the GOP.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:39 pm
“I wonder how quickly the fools on the left would still cry out for universal healthcare if their tax bill went up 25%. Oh or do you want the “evil rich” to pay for your healthcare too? MOOCHERS!”
If my tax bill went up 25%…but I…nor my family… would never have to think of BANKRUPTCY because of a debilitating medical condition and/or treatment…….that’s a fair exchange!!! If that would release my employer from having to subsidize my health care…and that extra money comes to me in SALARY/WAGES…..that’s a fair exchange!!!
Ernest T. Bass
December 13th, 2011
3:49 pm
Ernest….Universal Healthcare costs less…..HAHAHA OMG REALLY!?!?! THIS IS GREAT! hahahaah
Ummm it is.
Mostly because if more people are in the system you get people before they really get sick and cost allot more.
An ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure.
td
December 13th, 2011
3:49 pm
Anyone but Obama is my choice. I am leaning towards Newt right now but Romney would be 100 times better than the current occupant of the office.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
December 13th, 2011
3:50 pm
The only reason any country spends less than we do on health care, Ernest T. bass, is due to our litigious society.
Now I’m sure you’ll trot out that same, lame statistic about malpractice fees being only 3% of the problem, but the REAL problem is the cost of defensive medicine being practice to avoid suits in the first place. Doctors themselves estimate they run extra tests to the tune of over 30% of the total cost of health care just to avoid malpractice suits. It is the single biggest expenditure in the extra cost of our healthcare.
Remind me again which party has consistently blocked tort reform, Ernest T. Bass?
Kyle Wingfield
December 13th, 2011
3:51 pm
HDB @ 3:28: Ok, I’ll bite: How would universal health insurance change crime, per capita income, genetics, diet, shopping habits, bad habits, politics or fear of the system?
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:51 pm
Ernest….nope wrong again you are. Look up the pistol and gun laws in Canada.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:52 pm
HDB…..here is an idea. BUY health insurance.
Ernest T. Bass
December 13th, 2011
3:53 pm
Either way its been nice chatting.
I like to see how the dumber half thinks and interact with them every now and then.
Obama in 2012. Then Hillary in 2016 through 2024.
Count on it.
HDB
December 13th, 2011
3:53 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
December 13th, 2011
3:50 pm
The problem I have with tort reform (as Republicans call it) is that the reform focuses not on the aggrieved party! It takes judgments away from juries and denies proper adjudication!! If a suit is baseless, it’ll be thrown out!!
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
December 13th, 2011
3:54 pm
“HDB…..here is an idea. BUY health insurance.”
UGA 1999, if this was a Facebook page, I’d hit the “like” button.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:55 pm
Ernest……So you believe that by providing insurance to the current 49 Million uninsured that everyones cost would go down. Explain that again! haha.
Ever take an economics class?
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:55 pm
HDB….if a case is baseless it is thrown out!! GREAT!
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:56 pm
Democrats – I dont want to work, I dont want to earn anything. I want everything given to me and I want the evil rich to pay for it. NICE!
HDB
December 13th, 2011
3:57 pm
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:52 pm
1) Isn’t that what the INDIVIDUAL MANDATE proposes???Isn’t that the mandate that REPUBLICANS first was FOR…but when a DEMOCRAT proposes the same, they were AGAINST it???
2) When the per capita income is 32% LESS than the standard, how does someone be able to AFFORD health insurance?? We all know that the preponderance of the population has their health care tied to their EMPLOYMENT!!
YOU KNOW BETTER!!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 13th, 2011
3:57 pm
Relative life expectancies among first world countries have more to do with lardassification than health care.
HDB
December 13th, 2011
4:01 pm
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
3:56 pm
Democrats – I dont want to work, I dont want to earn anything. I want everything given to me and I want the evil rich to pay for it. NICE!
THAT IS SO WRONG!!!
1) I LIKE WORK!! When I ‘m NOT, I’m miserable! It brings a sense of accomplishment in my life!
2) I WANT TO EARN WHAT I DESERVE FOR WHAT I DO!! It determines how I live in the lifestyle I want!
3) The only thing I want given to me is that SAME opportunity as my contemporaries….no more…no less!!
Why am I more prone to vote Democratic?? The GOP persistently IGNORES me as a constituent and promotes policies that are anathematic to my beliefs……it’s that simple!!!
TruthBe
December 13th, 2011
4:02 pm
More Obama stuff.
http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/larry-sinclair-affidavit.pdf
HDB
December 13th, 2011
4:04 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 13th, 2011
3:57 pm
You know you’re wrong…….in many first-world nations, a sedentary lifestyle does NOT necessary decrease lifespan…..but I admit….. it doesn’t help!!!
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
4:04 pm
HDB…..anathmatic fo your beliefs…..Small government, less taxes and self responsibility…..you are against those policies? WOW
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
4:06 pm
Did you guys see where Obama called Iran and asked for our drone back? Do you think he actually believe Iran would say “sure when would you like to come pick it up”?
TruthBe
December 13th, 2011
4:14 pm
Obama the crack cocaine Homosexual President.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 13th, 2011
4:17 pm
If you’re not earning what you “deserve” then isn’t the logical thing to leave and take a job that does pay what you’re worth? Unless someone put a gun to your head, you agreed to work for what you’re being paid.
Democrats fear markets and freedom because they know they can’t cut it.
HDB
December 13th, 2011
4:19 pm
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
4:04 pm
HDB…..anathmatic fo your beliefs…..Small government, less taxes and self responsibility…..you are against those policies? WOW
THESE are my policies: EFFECTIVE government, sensible taxation, self responsibility, a better safety net, persistent funding for education, universal health care, string defense, elimination of special interests and tax breaks for the wealthy, equal time for the crime………THAT’S me!
When Republicans want to CUT Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, education funding under the guise of SMALLER government…and persistent tax breaks for the wealthy, then YES..that IS anathematic to my beliefs!! Charity can NOT handle the myriad of problems confronting the poor; the government HAS to be the source of LAST resort!! When judicial sentencing guidelines target the minority rather than being fair to ALL, then, YES, the policies are anathematic to my beliefs!! When legislation is written targeting a minority like SB 1070 because it’s written by those who have a zenophobic agenda, then YES, the policies are anathematic to my beliefs!! When Republicans IGNORE me as a constituent, refuse to campaign in my community, present their aspects on the issues WITH personal denigration by their prominent media arm and their (for lack of a better word) STOOGES in the neighborhood…….then YES, they are anathematic to my beliefs!!
It’s just that simple with me!!
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
4:24 pm
HDB……see man that is where we differ. I dont mind certain tax breaks for the wealthy especially when the lower 40% or so pay ZERO in federal income tax. I am more for FAIR taxation.
I am not totally again universal healthcare, that would make it an entitlement and I am not for entitlements at all.
Republicans do not want to cut education, they want to give you options (vouchers). Why are the democrats so against giving someone the option to go to private school if they choose?
What is “your” community?
HDB
December 13th, 2011
4:24 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 13th, 2011
4:17 pm
If you can’t find the job you desire in this market because business is HOARDING money rather than expanding so that we ALL can progress…then it’s the CONSERVATIVE thing to STAY PUT!! YOU KNOW BETTER!!
If I’m competing with someone for a job and my qualifications are equal (or in most cases, superior), I don’t worry…….sometimes, the job I want ISN’T the job I’m supposed to have (and I can deal with that!)!!
Republicans fear expanding the markets so that EVERYONE can have their own share of the wealth….not just the wealthy FEW!!
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
4:25 pm
HDB….”equal time for the crime”…..that really has nothing to do with the federal government. Unless it is a federal law. You should be petitioning that with your local and state judges.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
4:26 pm
HDB….”HOARDING” hahaha who are you to tell me (a business owner) what I can or cannot do with my earnings?
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
4:27 pm
HDB…”If I’m competing with someone for a job and my qualifications are equal (or in most cases, superior), I don’t worry…….sometimes, the job I want ISN’T the job I’m supposed to have (and I can deal with that!)!!”
So you are saying we should get rid of Affirmitive Action?
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
4:28 pm
HDB….”Republicans fear expanding the markets so that EVERYONE can have their own share of the wealth….not just the wealthy FEW!!”
Share of the wealth???? Now you know why we call you Marxists…..Tell me this what would you consider your fair share?
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
4:30 pm
HDB…..Please define the following word “stealing”.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
4:32 pm
HDB….Please show me in the constitution where it says the federal governments job is to distribute wealth.
HDB
December 13th, 2011
4:35 pm
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
4:24 pm
Let’s analyze this point-to-point:
1) I dont mind certain tax breaks for the wealthy especially when the lower 40% or so pay ZERO in federal income tax. I am more for FAIR taxation.
Many of the lower 40% are RETIREES who have paid federal income taxes throughout their working career….and their taxable income is ZERO. That’s because they are on fixed income. They deserve a break. Also included in that zero-fedtax is about 5000 MILLIONAIRES!! They SHOULD be paying taxes!!
2) Republicans do not want to cut education, they want to give you options (vouchers). Why are the democrats so against giving someone the option to go to private school if they choose?
Vouchers are nothing but a diversion of funding from public education to private education.
1) Vouchers will NOT cover the costs of tuition, books, and transportation at ANY private school
2) Private schools CAN NOT educate the masses; they are not designed to do so. They are designed to discriminate (in this case, pick-and-choose, although they DO discriminate in other means!) who they educate. If a strong workforce is desired, BOTH public and private education are needed. Also, I do NOT want the indoctrination that many private schools can do…that should be left up to me as a parent!! That’s MY freedeom being abridged!!
3) I am not totally again universal healthcare, that would make it an entitlement and I am not for entitlements at all.
It’s NOT an entitlement,; it’s fulfilling the social contract of this nation!!
From the CONSTITUTION:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
THAT’S a SOCIAL CONTRACT!!!
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
4:39 pm
HDB…..you keep using the word “deserves”….what do you feel you deserve?
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
4:40 pm
If the public government education system is broke, then why not give people OPTIONS!?!?!?!?!?!
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
4:41 pm
HDB.,,,,,”3) I am not totally again universal healthcare, that would make it an entitlement and I am not for entitlements at all.
It’s NOT an entitlement,; it’s fulfilling the social contract of this nation!!
From the CONSTITUTION:”
GREAT, simply present to me the article in which the constitution says that ever American is entitled to Universal Healthcare. Then you will have no further arguement from me.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
4:41 pm
HDB….and that CONTRACT says nothing about Healthcare.
HDB
December 13th, 2011
4:45 pm
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
4:27 pm
So you are saying we should get rid of Affirmitive Action?
NO!! It’s still needed!! I’ve put my resume out for jobs….and when they see who’s BEHIND the resume, they’re SHOCKED!! If Affirmative Action is good enough for the NFL, it’s good for the nation!!
….”equal time for the crime”…..that really has nothing to do with the federal government!
Actually, it does!! What government gave minorities the right to VOTE, be considered as equals in society, worked towards correcting the sentencing guidelines pertaining to drugs?? It was the FEDERAL government! If it were left up to the states, many minority citizens would still be considered as second-tier!!
“Share of the wealth???? Now you know why we call you Marxists”
Give a man a fish, he eats for a day; TEACH a man to fish, he can survuve a lifetime!! Teaching IS SHARING the wealth….and then a man can generate his own! What I consider as fair: what I’ve worked for and earned! Can’t work if there’re no jobs….won’t be jobs unless business expands..and SHARES their profitability by creating jobs…which in the long run will make EVERYONE — including the wealthy RICHER!! THAT’S SHARING the WEALTH!! That’s not Marxist…that’s BIBLICAL!!
Check the preamble of the Constitution and note the verbs: establish, provide, provide,insure, and secure!! Got to pay to play!! In its simplistic form, the Constitution promotes redistribution……
Stealing requires the UNLAWFUL taking of personal property…..and I am not advocating that!!
HDB
December 13th, 2011
4:51 pm
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
4:40 pm
1) Those options won’t work because of the design of the system. Show me how Westminister, Lovett and other privagte schools can educate over 350,000 children simultaneously?? Rather than belittle the system, work towards IMPROVING the system! As a product of public education (on ALL levels), I’m proof that it DOES work!!
What do I deserve? The same as my contemporaries — the RIGHT to the same opportunity as they have!!
“GREAT, simply present to me the article in which the constitution says that ever American is entitled to Universal Healthcare. Then you will have no further arguement from me.”
Read the Preamble:
“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
Domestic tranquility, general welfare, secure the blessings of liberty…….can’t do that if you’re in bad health….or DEAD!!!
HDB
December 13th, 2011
4:51 pm
Back in 1 hr…….
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
December 13th, 2011
4:54 pm
HDB, I wold suggest you look up the word “promote” and stop trying to use it synonymously with the word “provide”. There is no social contract within the Constitution, no matter how much you wish it to be.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 13th, 2011
5:26 pm
HDB: Republicans fear expanding the markets so that EVERYONE can have their own share of the wealth
————————-
Yes, everyone knows that Republicans don’t like expanding markets because that would mean they make more profit.
Stop being stupid.
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
5:36 pm
HDB…..every single post you have shared is based on your opinion and not facts.
Also if you want to talk about the bible……Jesus was referring to giving a man a fish (Sharing) by teaching him how to fish you are teaching him a skill so the he can go GET his OWN!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 13th, 2011
5:38 pm
Democrats teach people how to BEG for fish and demand that someone who went and caught some fish hand them over to someone else who did nothing.
Dusty
December 13th, 2011
5:44 pm
Well, I glanced at the afternoon posts. Mr. Bass certainly has me convinced. He should leave immediately for Canada. If I can expedite his departure I will be glad to help.
Of course he won’t leave until President Obama loses the next election. So I hope Bass is getting his bags packed and ready for the great goodbye.
Strangely enough, I have not heard of a large number of Americans fleeing to Canada for the marvelous benefits, the increased taxes and the delightful climate.. And strangely enough, millions of people are trying to get to the USA any way they can.
If you don’t like it here, please go. I have no use for people who do not appreciate this great country of ours.. .
Just think,
He probably won’t thought since he thinks Prez Obama is doing a great job.
Joel Edge
December 14th, 2011
4:22 am
You written an article with thirteen paragraphs highlighting various scenarios and pointing out that we’re not sure what Romney will do or even what he believes. That might be why conservatives don’t trust him, Kyle.
HDB
December 14th, 2011
7:34 am
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
December 13th, 2011
4:54 pm
Excuse me…but because YOU don’t see the social contract doesn’t mean it exists! Remember how MLK stated that the Constitution was a contract and the check came back “insufficient funds”?
UGA 1999
December 13th, 2011
5:36 pm
Based on EXPERIENCE….not opinion, therefore they are FACTUAL in my environment!!
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 13th, 2011
5:38 pm
Repubiicans teach people how to steal fish from those that didn’t have any in the first place so that they can be enrichened.
There…fixed your statement!!