Payroll taxes: Is anyone actually listening to Obama?

I don’t mean that headline question glibly. What I mean is: Are people paying attention to the president’s words and thinking critically about them?

Obama’s remarks yesterday about extending the payroll-tax holiday enacted last year put the question in my mind. Once we get past the usual rhetoric about “doing everything that I can, every single day, to create jobs faster” and how members of the middle class can’t afford a $1,000 tax hike “right now” — remember, Obama’s benevolence always comes with an expiration date — we can see he’s making three main political points:

1. “I know many Republicans have sworn an oath never to raise taxes as long as they live. How could it be that the only time there’s a catch is when it comes to raising taxes on middle-class families?”

Obama comes to this alleged “catch” only after misrepresenting Republicans’ position. It’s true that they voted against his proposal to extend the payroll-tax holiday. But they have also been working on other bills to extend it. The president is counting on a lot of people catching a bit of his remarks today without having followed the issue very closely.

But what makes this part of his argument doubly perplexing is that he uses the “oath” — we can assume he’s referring to the Taxpayer Protection Pledge — as a club against the GOP for not supporting his bill, even though his bill would have raised taxes on those good ol’ “millionaires and billionaires.” He’s basically saying: Hey, Republicans, don’t violate your anti-tax-raising oath by opposing my bill, which raises taxes on some people!

Huh?

2. “Now, some Republicans who have pushed back against the idea of extending this payroll tax cut have said that we’ve got to pay for these tax cuts. And I’d just point out that they haven’t always felt that way. … Indeed, when the Republicans took over the House at the beginning of this year, they explicitly changed the rules to say that tax cuts don’t have to be paid for. So forgive me a little bit of confusion when I hear folks insisting on tax cuts being paid for.

Is the president seriously chastising Republicans here for claiming to be more fiscally responsible than a) they used to be, and b) the rules of the House say they must be? I understand he’s trying to accuse them of hypocrisy, but isn’t it a little odd to accuse them of hypocrisy that makes them more responsible?

3. “I’m willing to work with Republicans to extend the payroll tax cut in a responsible way. What I’m not willing to do is to pay for the extension in a way that actually hurts the economy.”

As far as I can tell from the Congressional Budget Office’s scoring, the Senate Republican proposal of Nov. 30 proposes to “offset” the $119.6 billion in reduced payroll taxes during the 2012 and 2013 fiscal years with direct spending cuts during those years totaling …

… wait for it …

… $79 million.

That’s “million” with an “M.” The proposed direct spending “cuts” don’t surpass even $1 billion in any single year until 2020. Its net effect is to increase deficits by $110 billion between 2012 and 2021.

Even if you interpret the bill most charitably, and assume the proposed changes in spending caps will actually transpire, the GOP is talking about cutting spending by only $6.6 billion in 2012 and 2013, while revenues fall by nearly $120 billion.

Neither Obama’s jobs bill — which would lead to an increase in deficits of $285 billion — nor the GOP’s proposal can truly be described as “responsible.” But it strains credulity to suggest reducing federal spending by between one-hundredth of 1 percent and one-tenth of 1 percent of the expected spending during fiscal 2012 and 2013 — “hurts the economy” while it’s still fragile.

To be fair to the president, maybe I should rephrase my opening question. Rather than asking whether anyone is listening to him, let me ask: Can any taxpayer afford not to listen to him?

– By Kyle Wingfield

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116 comments Add your comment

Voice of Reason

December 6th, 2011
1:16 pm

Original Thought,

It really is difficult to have a polite, logical discourse on current events without it devolving into a name calling match. I, like you, try to analyze every candidtate on their individual stances. This invariably ends with me on the right, so I am branded as partisan (see earlier posts directed at me). It drives me nuts because I am conservative in most of my thoughts, people assume that I fully support every action that made by the Republican party, which I don’t.

I try not to fall into that trap on the other side, but I’m not always successful.

Original Thought Not Necessary

December 6th, 2011
1:22 pm

Voice,

It would be nice if there was a place to have an adult conversation without all the baggage. My father and I disagree on almost everything when it comes to politics. Yet despite those disagreements I still know that my father is very intelligent, compassionate and thoughtful in his beliefs. And at the end of it all we disagree with civility, each making our points and listening to each other with the full knowledge that neither of us is likely to change our position. But there is always respect.

Would that it were so here.

Voice of Reason

December 6th, 2011
1:23 pm

Ha, yeah. Good luck.

Original Thought Not Necessary

December 6th, 2011
1:29 pm

My thoughts exactly.

Kyle Wingfield

December 6th, 2011
1:45 pm

Logical Dude @ 11:41: First, I don’t think the income and payroll taxes should be joined at the hip, unless we’re talking about a truly comprehensive tax reform. That is not what Congress is debating right now. The only reason they are linked is because the Dems are playing politics by trying to make the GOP out to be for “the rich” and against the middle class. There is no good reason, outside politics, for it to be an either/or.

Second, I still believe — as I wrote this time last year — a temporary payroll tax cut is not very effective economically. A one-year reduction in the employee’s side of the payroll taxes provides very little incentive for employers to hire more people. So, while it may be better than nothing as a means of stimulating the economy, it isn’t necessarily worth the cost.

The best likely result of the payroll-tax holiday is the one that Democrats will fight tooth and nail: It underscores the lack of real connection between payroll taxes and retirement benefits, and it will hasten the day when Congress has to take action to make them more sustainable. That’s why I think, politically, this ploy will ultimately backfire on the Dems.

Allen

December 6th, 2011
3:21 pm

Wingfield: “But don’t worry. I refuse to stoop here to asking whether you are ‘truly that illiterate.’”

“I knew this post was going to get some liberals’ panties in a wad, but I didn’t know it would render them incapable of comprehending the written word.”

In Kyle’s defense, doing snark well is awfully hard. But this is just disdainful and detracts from his credibility/objectivity.

Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)

December 6th, 2011
4:10 pm

Boo-freakin’-hoo

Uncle Jed

December 6th, 2011
4:12 pm

When Obama speaks all I hear is noise.

JF McNamara

December 6th, 2011
4:24 pm

Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward),

Read the CBO report from the article. Simple facts. Do not be afraid.

Better yet, provide me any credible report that shows that the tax cuts worked. I provided you with a CBO report. I’m sure you can go over to Heritage and find one. If you can’t, that says a lot.

Wake Up Everybody No More Sleeping in Bed

December 6th, 2011
4:52 pm

@UGA 1999 December 6th, 2011 9:34 am He is a joke!
**********************************************

The JOKE IS ON YOU. While you complain about Obama…..THE RICH GET RICHER!

Feds say a couple claimed welfare, lived in $1.2 million dollar home.

SEATTLE — A Seattle chiropractor and his wife live in a $1.2 million waterfront home and have spent the past eight years flying to Moscow, Paris, Israel, Turkey, Mexico and the Dominican Republic.

The $1.2 million waterfront home where prosecutors say a Seattle chiropractor and his wife lived while claiming welfare assistance. The U.S. attorney’s office filed a civil lawsuit Friday, Dec. 2, 2011, accusing David Silverstein and Lyudmila Shimonova of filing false claims.

Prosecutors are demanding they pay back more than $135,000 in federal housing assistance since 2003 and are seeking tens of thousands of dollars in fines.

.All the while, federal authorities say, the couple was collecting more than $100,000 IN WELFARE!.

Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)

December 6th, 2011
6:23 pm

JF McNamara: Read the CBO report
————————

Your CBO report is based on projections and crystal-ball gazing. Mine is based on what actually happened.

Lower tax rates, higher revenue, lower unemployment.

Of course, your ilk are so concerned about making sure Republicans don’t get elected that you have to try to destroy the economy.

Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)

December 6th, 2011
6:31 pm

Feds say a couple claimed welfare, lived in $1.2 million dollar home.
————————–

Another failure of big government. And of course, the junkies get blamed, rather than the dealers.

Fast and Furious Spending

December 6th, 2011
11:43 pm

Good question, Kyle.

The answer is “NO”. No one’s listening. The media repeats exactly what the White House Press officce wants them to repeat, namely, “Obama channels Teddy Roosevelt’s populism,” and Mooseawackahatchee, Kansas. Wow, Air Force One goes to Kansas just so Obama can deliver a dumb speech to a bunch of witless drones!

No, the speech, the trip and the whole affair was made ONLY for a slight tweak on what Obama’s been saying ever since the summer and the apparance of his complete lack of leadership and pursuasive qualities. Congress stopped listening, and the American people are too. We’re getting sick and tired of Obama saying the singular thing over and over and over.

And we’re tired of his drones whining about how the Tea party is out to get him, and his black drones (which seems to be 90% of all black people sometimes) whininng about how everyone’s out to get them.

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Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)

December 7th, 2011
3:26 pm

Obozo is giving off enough “dog whistles” to keep a segment of his base listening–the diehard America haters.

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